every night I crime yourself to sleep

like nothing made me happy nothing

what a fighter I believe I promise here

to fight it was me father who taught me

how to punch and at 12 13 years old

that's a powerful tool to show a kid

finding out that your brother was gay

being a pivotal moment why from their

mid-90s it wasn't cool to be gay and

black that's when I'd say the fight and

take sheep

brutalize my body cannibalize my own

body there's five nights that I've had

that I can't remember anything that

Shield you put up to help you to survive

I'm guessing it's not serving you

value to hey nil one of the things I

will never forget is the raw emotion

that came out of you after you won that

fight you know people look at you and

think you're a success story they look

at the money you've got to look at the

scenario and the setup you've got but

ultimately are you happy

are you happy

so without further Ado I'm Stephen

Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO

I hope nobody's listening but if you are

then please keep this yourself

[Music]

Tony

from reading your book and a lot of the

things that you've said over the years

one of the things that really stood out

to me because I think it's been front of

mine because a few guests have said this

to me over the last couple of weeks is I

was a product of my environment and your

early environment was waverty in

Liverpool yeah

take me back to that environment and

tell me what it was about that

environment that

shaped who you went on to be and who you

are today

I am a product of my environment and and

I say that and the way I get to that is

because it's no coincidence I'm a

fighter I was just but I believe I'll

put on this here to fight it's something

that I enjoyed something that I like

it's something that I'm not afraid of

fighting doesn't it never scared me it

never bothered me and

I think that's a bit weird to be honest

but it's just me I can't change who I am

and uh the environment I was raised in

definitely helped producer you know from

being

a kid at the age of 10 me old man leaves

home he's gone and then at that age me

little brother at that age is about six

or seven me two Elder Brothers one I'd

moved out and the other one was on the

verge of finishing school

so the Elder one who finishes school

then goes on to further education he

goes to University so we keep moving on

over a few years

and then once I hit

13 14 it's quite apparently younger

brother's gay and then that's when I'd

say the fight and take shape and things

take shape so

so you said your dad left home when you

were 10. yep

how come

yeah

to the top and bottom of it yeah

and got caught basically a fantastic

father but you know it was carrying on

broke my mum's ass and was gone yeah so

a product of most men to be honest but

uh that was the reason me that was gone

so he was carrying on he had an affair

with some Scot bag of a woman who knew

he was married with four kids and

yeah he just he let us the thing in

between in his pants rule his head and a

thing that he regrets every single day

for the rest of his life which he

constantly tells me and those but these

are the mistakes men make

what impact did that have on your mother

at the time I was heartbreaking

absolutely heartbreaking it's a kid

growing up it's not nice meat watching

your mother cry herself to sleep at

night

and the other things that go on in life

is heartbreaking very very tough and

you'd only understand out of it is when

you look back as an older is a grown ass

man you realize how tough and hard it

really is so heartbreaking yeah

getting to see the impact of like

infidelity in your own home has impacted

what you're like as a man with your

oh that's deep I've never been asked to

questions like this but it's all good

yes it does add a life where a Charming

best

to learn from others mistakes and not

just my own

so

I would never ever in a million years

have an affair ain't nothing just not

going on not a chance

things sit with me and I'll say I try my

best to learn from other people's

mistakes but yeah growing up in that

period at the time and that part of my

life was very very difficult

and you just you have to learn to adapt

so then at that stage

yeah how your home's broken

and my friends then become me family me

closest friends that the five or six was

like all go to school together they

become my best friends and they become

me brothers from there running and you

learn to cope with life and do things

just cause me that don't worry don't he

didn't detract anything from as a father

he was a brilliant father he's being my

greatest supporter since the day I was

born I'm as Shannon like he believes in

me like no one else could ever believe

in me like he adores me I know he does

and I adore them I would do anything for

me father but yeah them them years when

he's gone very very difficult especially

when he goes to prison as well so that's

hard as well

you mentioned um you're finding out that

your brother was gay being a pivotal

moment why we always had the other other

conscious thought that he was because me

Builder's gay he's he's not

he's not like yes hi the way you hear my

brother before you see him you know he's

out there he really is so we knew it

quite early on but as I say as time goes

on and you see the environment that he's

raised up and he's constantly around

women and and yeah he just adapts and we

see where it's going but

as a family we understand that now we

get him I love means my little brother

but then for the outside world it

doesn't go down well yeah in the air in

the mid 90s it wasn't cool to be gay and

black like maybe just darker than me so

he's the same shade as you uh our Liam

and that just didn't go down well yeah

licked on in school regularly in the

Junior School it's not too bad it's okay

because it's kind of just looked at us

being loud and you're out there when you

start getting towards senior School

level it's like oh okay he's gay

and then that comes at problems and

headaches and when you've raised in

waverty

being a kid growing up I think I seen

one gay man one gay black man his name

was Skippy no one would mess with him

because he was like six foot three and

his name was escaping he would [ __ ]

around the normal swim will just leave

him alone because anyone who did try

mastering me he was going to smack them

but my little brother wasn't that way

inclined at that age he's not smacking

no one he'd just take a slap or whatever

so I couldn't allow that to happen

though anyone who would slap Jim I would

step to them and it would always be me

when every single time

so you find yourself defending him a lot

because lots of times lots of times I

mean the amount of times I'd have to go

up to the school remember being a kid

Taking Me Mum's Car she was away she was

on holiday

and I got a phone call saying your

brother's been threatened to be beat up

from after school or some kid threatened

them so at this time I think I was 16

took my mum's car which I shouldn't have

done uh went and got my little brother

and

the moment I think I smug someone to

school or the other was waiting for him

I'd give them a good beating driving

back home after the young crash my mum's

car really yeah and then for the other

ones ever did that story yeah crashed

the moon's car into a taxi and then and

then set off running for a couple of

weeks so yeah for a couple of weeks yeah

I was gone for a couple of weeks

back in the day so yeah you could just

go missing in them days and uh the emu's

car was classed has been stolen and

stuff like that so yeah lots of crazy

things I've done and and experienced in

my life but yeah that's the first time

I've actually spoke about that side so

you're the first world done you've

dragged something up here something new

oh yeah I'm just so genuinely curious

because much of my

the reasoning behind my questioning is

to really try and understand how someone

came to be who they are today and all of

these like threads through your life of

like the absence of your father which

creates this void where you almost

become the man of the house and then

you've got this thing you need to defend

in your brother and and even the race

thing I find really interesting because

your mother is the same skin tone as me

roughly isn't she yeah maybe a bit

darker yeah similar to you yes but you

you're like you're significantly lighter

than me yes so having a mother who is

can I I'm guessing could considers

herself to be a black woman she's black

yeah yeah and growing up in that

environment where there wasn't

a huge a huge amount of black people did

you find yours I was wondering this when

I was reading about your story did you

find yourself almost like

a little bit

like identifying with that Community

while also not being considered part of

it by do you know what I mean yeah of

course so you're not blocking up for the

brothers and you're not wise enough for

the white people so yeah I've got that

since I was a kid but it doesn't bother

me in the slightest it it did growing up

because you're trying to think who would

relate to what they relate to avoids

just being a decent person I try and do

the right thing I've done enough bad

things in my life

to

to know that I'm a good person if that

makes sense so yeah after

race color creed it doesn't really

bother me you know the good or you're

bad but yeah it's not hard for us I've

always wondered

what it must have been like my mother

growing up

because that must have been very

difficult especially for you know I I

know it was difficult for me mother and

father to be together when they first

got together because my father's coming

into a period at the time where the

chocolate right to happen and for a

white man

with you know a black woman and black

kids and stuff it you know he's had this

fights regarding that as well but for me

mother must have been horrific at times

must have really been hard so

she's strong she's a strong woman and

she she can get through anything

I saw that like my mom obviously my

dad's white my mum's from Nigeria so

okay my mum we moved to Cornwall right

where everyone's white when I'm like one

or two years old and my mum she just

constantly get like struggled with it

her car being burnt by people by people

locally Shop's been broken into

everything and she she really built a a

huge amount of I don't know anger and

resentment towards people which I'm

really happy I didn't carry with me but

you know at that age even I had racism

yeah a lot of racism on the playground

and stuff like that and being someone

who wouldn't necessarily be a target of

that racism yeah but would be could

identify with the community because your

mother's black was that ever like a a

thing where you would hear people would

have the guts to be racist around you

but they but because they wouldn't think

you'd be offended by it but did you

almost give you advice on how to get

through that or never just working out

no never I mean I got a few I'm probably

the only significant fights I ever got

in with someone calling me the n-word in

school yeah and I was the only black

chemical like there was an obviously

Cornwall like yeah night night too

um that was those were the only fights I

ever got into and I didn't really know

what it meant I didn't even know I was

black until someone called me them which

I mean it was yeah so but did you get

some advice on that was no I wasn't

given advice I just found myself I used

to build a bit of a protective wall

around myself so I would let people know

I was half black within literally the

first couple of minutes of meeting them

so that way it would Shield them from

saying because if someone says a race is

coming in front of me I'm gonna smack

you or I'm gonna do something so I'm

gonna bought you a smack here I'm gonna

give you a piece of me man I'm gonna do

something

so I I find myself like meeting people

not be like yes I'm mixed race so yeah

my mom's blocked me that's white and and

some of them used to look at me just to

say why is he telling us that and I

think because I just don't want to hear

the comments that I'm used to hearing of

this word that word I've heard them on

my life and people would make smart-ass

jokes and

this the you know degrade black people

or whether it would be I've had every

single word and phrase you can possibly

imagine and and I would and I would only

hear them because they were undertone

racism it would be said because they

thought I was white yeah yeah and that

was the most frustrating part so then I

felt myself

letting people know look I'm not white

I'm not black and I'm not white but I'm

I'm just me but yeah that let people

know what I was pretty much straight

away because if I hear that undertone or

I hear that slight comments or dig

I'm gonna respond unless it's a woman

and a couple of times I've had to let

that go and it's been women who've made

undertone comments only once I think I

took her up with a woman because I was

working in the sports Centerville city

council and a woman yeah I said the M

with and I was furious and I just

started to give it a piece of my mind

and I called it every slot and sweat you

can go on and uh yeah and I actually

lost my job for that yeah because yeah

Santa once if I was she just denied she

said it but I was like you know I'm such

a quiet not quiet but I'm such a I treat

people Everyone with respect everyone

and meet it doesn't matter whether you

can be anything in life I'm not better

than anyone whether it's a [ __ ] big

man on the street whether they're tough

one I was a lifeguard whether it's a

it's someone who's begging on the seat I

am no better than them but believe you

me they're not better than me you

shouldn't disrespect anyone so yeah I

gave it a piece of Mind lost me job and

that was the end of that you learn to

deal with moments like that and as I say

in the environment I'm raised in

I've found a way of shielding myself

protecting myself and then also uh my

actions and I'll speak louder than me

words because of what I've what I've

done with my career

when I sat here with Eddie Hearn um it

became really Tran uh apparent that many

of the successful people I meet

start with this kind of innate desire to

please a parent Eddie's one of them

right he kind of lived in Barry hands

Shadow you've spoke a lot of people wow

but he was he was when I was reading

your story I saw the same thing you had

this real strong desire to impress your

father I'm wondering why why because

he's my dad and I adore me that I love

him yeah

not everyone has that though yeah

because not everyone has a father and

I'm very fortunate that I do yet he

might not have been living at home from

the age of 10 but he's still my father

and he still loves me and adores me I

know he does my dad will do anything for

his kids

he would literally die for all of his

children

and and that was passed over to me I

think that's

why I adore me kids so much

but I always wanted to impress him why

dad

so yeah he is me the other one I want to

apart he wants to impress him and a part

of me wants to do more than he's done

do better I wanna I wanna I wanna

impress them but I also wanna

Go fail than where he's gone and yeah I

was lucky enough for fortunes not to be

able to do it especially I mean my dad

was a hard mommy my dad can fight you

know really really fight but

he tried the boxing didn't stick at it

didn't go right and it didn't go right

because not because he's not hard enough

for Tough Enough Just because he's

mentally he can't stick with it he can't

take someone jabbing the face off him

because you know he goes Nazi attacks

him with a stool in the second fight uh

he's got a wicked temper you would never

know that as as his children but I've

seen it literally because I've worked on

nightclub those of them I've strapped up

a bulletproof vest at the age of 19 but

and we've been working side by side

working on nightclub so as a young kid I

just wanted to be like him so when I

realized what my dad was he was a he

owned the night club security company

and

he ran them doors brilliantly you know

the nightlife in our city was fantastic

we had the best club in the city people

still talk about today it was called

society and the the policy was three to

one with women to men

though you can possibly imagine the

trouble that would cause and what we

would get from the outside in uh

and we created an environment and a

place that was unbelievable and I've

watched my dad go through so many

problems and fights and things like that

whether he's been threatened to be shot

as house blown up ran over shot stabbed

every possible thing you can imagine

jailed twice

so yeah I just wanted to impress him so

the first step was working on the door

with him well now the first step was

going into the boxing gym that was the

first step

once I found out he that he couldn't

progress any further boxing I thought

okay I'll show you how I can I'll have a

go and it started off as just a bit of a

macho thing I'll show you this I'll show

you that because ultimately I didn't

really want a box I wanted to play

football I don't have a football club

and I wanted to be a professional

footballer but that's just a pipe dream

but at the ages of 12 to 16 you think

you can do it and I was a big believer

in my own beliefs so I thought if I work

hard then if I can do I've always

synchronized working hard with getting

to the end goal I'll get there no matter

how hard it is or how big the task looks

if I work hard enough I'll get there but

that just wasn't the case with football

unlucky for me yeah but with boxing

I always watched it with my dad from

afar I wasn't its biggest fan but I

studied and watched because I was

intrigued by and then upon finding out

my dad couldn't stick I didn't do it I

thought okay I'll have a go with this

and I was just insanely

good luck punching people and that was

from an early age I knew just straight

away he took me on pads I kickboxed the

first

got to a good level at that good

standard and then knocked a couple of

upons over punches in the face but I was

only a kid at this age that shouldn't

happen dropped one and flattened the

other one uh got disqualified for both

contests because it was supposed to be

semi contact supposed to tap each other

for the point and then point for you you

go away let's fight again point for you

and you get to like 11 points and you've

won I think it was 11 points

and uh

it was like oh you can't do this and at

this stage it was me father who taught

me how to punch he showed me the correct

way if I was tearing you fist over I was

exchanger by the way from then the full

to the end of your fist and at 12 13

years old that's a powerful tool to show

a kid but I've seen how proud he was the

minister knocked them kids out of the

kickboxing even though I got

disqualified and lost

I knocked these kids out with punches

and he was extremely proud and I was

like oh this is the way forward and and

even though

I didn't know that then mentally and

subconsciously I've took that on board

seeing how much he's praised me said how

much he's give me for doing it and I

thought that's the way so I keep

flitting and I'm messing around with

that thought and then ultimately I end

up in a boxing gym basically trying to

impress me that I'm not gonna lie that's

the that was the first reasons for going

into a boxing gym and amateur boxing gym

and doing

first time before that was born first

time before you were born and then the

second time when you were roughly around

I think I was 14 15 14 14 15 Yes

somewhere there were thereabouts I'll

have to go back in the years but around

roughly that age what's that like when

you find out that your father someone

you you admire so much is going to this

place called jail where he's going to be

locked that's tough

I agreed with everything he don't so at

this age now it's right so someone stole

his money so meet at this stage meet Dad

owns a puppy he's I say he's running a

security firm he's got a pub on the side

he's got his other job with deprivation

he's got so many things going on

this Pub

uh I think the guy stole 10 000 pounds

off the safe

the manager he was employing to manage

took ten thousand pound off the safe and

went running with his money so uh me

father

pick them up

found this home and demanded this money

back

and the that that was told and no so it

makes another phone call leaves a

voicemail unbelievable leaves a

voicemail of what will happen if he

doesn't get his ten thousand pounds and

that voicemail sends him to prison

so yeah

if someone stole ten thousand pounds

from me I'm not leaving a voicemail like

but you know I mean you know no one's

taking me kids money so and I know I get

these these things from him so you know

no one can steal from me and take your

child's money because I don't look at my

money as being my money anymore I look

at it to the kids

and and I'm pretty sure that's how he

looked it is

so yeah he done what he'd done and then

he goes off and I go and visit him and

then that's when I think another pivotal

moment in my life going to visit me dad

in the big house is is very very tough

but sticks with me once again it's a

part of me life whether things to myself

wow I can never come here he tells me

the most important one of the most

important phrases he ever told me in

life I'm sitting with him

and I'm on a visit in order this partner

who takes me up to the visit he takes me

there and

he says to me you see a lot of people

glorify jail you see Lads and then like

I've done jail I've done this I've done

that my father was the only person I

seen

say what he said to me and I've never

seen it said since I've got friends who

are in jail I've grown up with Lads from

jail and stuff like that so and he says

to me son don't ever come here and I

said I'm not gonna do so could you see

this place it's the house of failure

everyone in his failed there's no

winners in here there's no great people

in there if you're any you've failed

and it sat with me forever

just it's always sat with me so there's

various things that I've done that I'm

not proud of there's various things that

if I would have been call forward I

would have been in jail but it didn't uh

and at the same time I'm very grateful

for the words that he said because he

stuck with me forever

I actually have got

friends do in life I've seen friends you

know being in jail for longest periods

of time I've visited from recently

and uh and we speak to him and I told

him the phrase my dad said and this this

friend the man has done hasn't done a

long time in jail and he said to me your

dad was spot on

and he's sitting there he's been nearly

16 years he's getting old soon and

that's what he said to me he said you'd

have the spots on he couldn't be he

couldn't be any more truthful and

couldn't be phrased any better if you're

in jail you've failed

so no one should glorify jail no one

should put a badge of honor on it

there's nothing glorious about sitting

in the prison cell nothing at all so but

I'm not stupid enough to think that that

couldn't have been me Could Have Been Me

with the cards and dealt with could have

very very easily been me I'm just very

fortunate that didn't happen to me

when you

amateur boxing career starts are you

still being tempted by those kind of

Temptations you talk a little bit about

that in here yeah Street Life Street

Life yeah definitely because there's no

other way to end I've got no

qualifications I've been expelled from

school for fighting right yep for

fighting for smashing someone's face in

but while he was stabbing me in the head

of a compass

so yeah it's uh but these are this is

the life that you know you just it's not

it's looked at as normal I know when you

look back now it's frightening to think

that like if someone stabbed my son had

to accomplish wow it's truly frightening

but it it didn't detail me or bother me

at all

crazy I had walked or two and watched

them hold the compass and I knew I only

had fists but I didn't

it didn't intimidate me didn't scare me

and yeah

when you get explored from school at 15

what do you think you're going to become

in your life is it we still thinking you

might well at 15 you what's the Hope

yeah this one said what you're going to

be when you grow up what would the

response have been

at 15 after getting kicked out locked up

you thought that's what help was going

to play off you yeah because I know I

wanted nice things at that at the age of

15 16 I always know I wanted nicer

things

and I just at that stage especially

being exposed from school I had no idea

I was going to get them

why did you want nice things why was

that simple because I read throughout

your story about these nice things I

just want nice things you just want so

the nice things that I looked at was

like

as a kid the only way I can't believe I

weighed so I've got a gold chain I

bought this chain now the only reason I

have this is because I wanted that as a

child and I've never grown up it's the

one thing I once I thought like if I can

get that I've cracked it I don't wear a

chain out on me I'll meet up and show

this and all that that's not me now but

as a kid growing up I thought that was

going to be me the chain out and the

cross and the Downs you know you've

grown up in similar environments and

that's what you want but I get it

because in my mind I think I got the

things I wanted but I've worked hard and

I've done it the right way

thinking I'll do it the wrong way as

well and and that that that's once again

where the touch upon being a product of

your environment because everybody else

is doing it anybody else who had nice

things where I'm from everyone was

selling drugs there's no other way to

get nice things no one where I'm from I

I didn't ever see a doctor where I'm

from I didn't see a solicitor when I

mean the first time I found out what a

solicitor was it was because a lot he

crashed into our bus on our way to

school my mother took me to meet him

was it's not so crazy it tells you so

much about what's wrong with yes Society

Society right

High School Netherland School in

Liverpool I know where it is but I

didn't live anywhere I went to a place

called chill water comp I went

undercover in litherland as a teacher

did you read a TV show so little in

school that's a prominently white area

yeah yeah it's the North End is it a

referee because it felt it's not it's

enough it's actually nice really it's a

nice part of the Liverpool you would say

litherlands really nice really yeah

that's really really they were like the

lowest ranked on offset or whatever but

I remember a kid there in the school

Steve I went to his house but Brown when

he thinks I'm a teacher and he goes he

goes he goes I think I want to be a

millionaire when I grow up but there's

just no millionaires around here I've

never met any and um he goes he goes

it's hard to be something that you can't

see and I always remember him saying

that

and again that speaks to much of the

problem in society where those kids

don't have Role Models so they can only

aspire to and we it's a big part of the

show we did the what do they call it the

networks of people getting young kids

from schools to deal drugs

bloody name of it but so what ends up

happening is these adults from out of

town message these kids from Liverpool

on Instagram and say listen you can make

some like 50 Quid if you just move these

drugs for me and then they end up going

through that path which

the cycle of deprivation yeah and that's

how it starts but you you also have to

understand that in them areas like I've

just touched on no one was coming from

my area and was going to be

like it's only since I've grown up and

I've realized so three of us got

expelled from school there was me tinker

and Walker three of us are permanently

expelled uh now them three people the

meeting can walk out Tinker is one of

the lead professors in Leeds University

to expel the same as me

walks is

one of the best journalists in the whole

of the country for sports boy knows

everything about football boxing the

only reason he knows everything about

boxing is because the dope didn't like

the fact that anymore about boxing them

so he starts to study the unboxing which

is insane uh and then there's me and

we're we're I say with best friends who

grew up then there was Neil there was

danzy he was a footballer he was set out

from the start he's amazing is always

going to be a football he was just

unbelievably gifted so between the four

of us there

growing up within two miles of each

other

no one from them areas I'd ever seen

before or heard of before me I'd ever

come a professor an amazing journalist

professional footballer and then a

professional fighter World Champion and

we were Four Lads who all went to school

together

the closest of friends and that that

that's just thought out about the eight

of us uh

the others have good jobs and stuff like

that and they've cracked on without just

finding they'll figure out the way in

life but yeah that that wasn't available

to us as kids because as I say

if I could tell you what that Professor

was doing now as 15 you wouldn't believe

me if I could tell you what the 16 year

old was doing and what was going on as

the jailent you wouldn't believe it it's

only the football allows was I could say

he was the he was the the goal we all

aspire to be as kids because he was so

driven Neil was just he'd worked so hard

when every spare minutes he got he was

kicking a ball against the wall uh he

was training he was working he was

playing for Liverpool he was just

unbelievably gifted and but worked so

hard with the talent that He had whereas

others didn't and I'd say for me growing

up it was like everyone who had nice

things was selling drugs

and that's all you could really see

because if I had the seen a footballer

from where I'm from if I had a scene a

professional world champion boxer or

another scene I really educated in your

man living where I was then I I might

have thought I can do that but you don't

you just don't see so I go to schools to

these sometimes now and I try and talk

to these kids and explain to them I

don't feel comfortable going to places

so I got invited to Oxford and Cambridge

and I didn't go I said no and I just

said I don't feel what am I going to say

to people who've Got Brains the Pat the

size of this and they were like that do

you understand that's not about it's

what you've tapped into up here yourself

to make work for you I said yeah but I

can't I'm not comfortable going on so

I'm not going but I can walk into any

school where I'm from and have a chat to

them kids because I am them kids I've

been where they've been I can relate to

them and I just need to get across to

them so I do that now with the program

then do with the weapons down gloves up

and certain amount of it's in the book

But ultimately it's just a it's hard to

get across to the kids in the areas that

I'm from it really is because there is

no way out and I understand there's

nowhere else I was there I was where you

once was with no way out with no hope no

job

Jack spelled from school and you just

think what am I gonna do

so yeah it's tough difficult

we talked a little bit about your father

there the other

um man in your life that you referred to

as being a father figure is in chapter

two which is Jimmy yes who is the guy

who is your I believe your amateur coach

yes he was you know it's so blatantly

obvious from reading chapter two that he

had a profound influence on you

definitely in the short space on time I

was around them and with them I just I

got him and the very first time I met

him I thought I was never gonna work so

the very first time I met him he he

basically just shook me off and thought

I'm not gonna he obviously seen the town

so I walked in before I actually had an

amateur about I walked in there was on

the ABC

and I started punching a bag this had

been the second gym I tried out

so I went in this gym and they punched a

bag and he comes have you ever boxed

before I said no I've never boxed he

said don't tell lies he said how many

belts have you had I said I've never had

a bout in my life he said kids who have

never had the boat don't hit a bag like

you how many bolts have you had to set

up had no boats I said but when can I

have about

to that smart ass comment from me he

replied you don't tell me boy when

you're gonna box I tell you he had about

12 to 18 months and I was like okay yeah

walked on the gym and never came back I

went and went straight to a place called

Stockbridge JBC that's a guy called Mark

any six weeks later I have my first

damage about and they're all hell but

exclusion I just think that I'm I'm the

wave a cheese version of Mike Tyson I'm

smashing people you have to understand

when you first have amateur boats very

very very you'll see a stoppage my first

three amateur fights all London fair in

knockout wins and you you just don't see

that usually a lot of amateur Fighters

lose the first fight through nerves and

anxiety and just being petrified it's

normal I've only ever been nervous for

two fights in my whole entire life the

very first ever that much advice I had

and then go to some Park so I've never

been nervous for any other fight

fighting doesn't bother me I I enjoy

like I said before

so I guess the points I get disqualified

to meet temper flares in one in the last

spell to have a stock with JBC guy spit

to me face I bought him as hard as I can

in the middle of the face referee throws

me out

and then go back to rotunda this time

I've now had

four or five belts four boats I go back

to the tournament table between my legs

and go back to Jimmy Albertina after him

telling me it's gonna be 12 18 months

this guy now knows who I am he's seeing

me box he's seen me fight and he's

identified me as a talent I didn't know

that I'm only told that later on in life

because he would never ever gave me an

answer because of this he never once

praised me not to me face anyway it was

only upon him dying that I found out

that he thought I was going to be a

champion

song which is crazy to think that he

could see that because I couldn't see at

that stage but being with him and

spending time with him

he may be believing him so much and

a part of it was because he pushed me to

the levels of work rate that I'd never

seen before that I never thought I was

capable of but how hard we worked in

that gym under this choose a lodge was

as hard as any day that I've had as a

professional it was really tough he

would Demand only the best from you and

I don't know how he's seen the things

he's seen but he did the cat was a

genius it was unbelievable so yeah

losing him was a was the first real loss

ever had in my life I've had lost at

this stage

I think I've lost

I definitely lost my uncle at that stage

which was a bit heartbreaking it was me

Dad's previous partner

in the business and lose my Uncle Jimmy

was hard but I could deal with it it was

a progression he got cancer and he got

slowly slowly died and went away so that

was a bit hard to lose him but uh the

first real tragic lost her address Jimmy

that was hard grief is the worst feel in

the world it's the worst thing ever do

you remember where you were when you got

that call yep Paul Smith phoned me I was

a

Paul phone me and I was just sitting

there and he's and and he was sobbing on

the phone and said whoa what's wrong

where are you and he was just can't he

was crying on the phone I couldn't

understand what he was saying and then I

got the last word he said Jimmy's dead I

said don't be stupid I was with him two

days ago because he Jimmy had a

quadruple bypass

and uh

he gets the quadruple bypass

and he just comes back too soon he

starts training again he had a bevy and

like pizza and food Jimmy was just a

proper man's man uh and yet he came back

too soon so when Paul phones me and

tells me that Jimmy's gone

I just couldn't believe it remember just

breaking down crying taking another card

again with no license and driving

straight to the gym the top Jimmy gave

me I'm sitting at the gym just crying

and crying thinking what are we gonna do

and and as selfish as I am thinking

what's going to happen to me career

because at that stage then being with

Jimmy I then knew I was going to be a

fighter forever once once I had two or

three boats and when we first national

championships and Jimmy was in my corner

I fight in the under 10 novice finals I

fight against the guy with the surname

Mohammed he wins the semi-final 10 nil I

go in and knock him unconscious six

seconds in the final so when we first

have a national title and under 10

novice title cleaned them out in six

seconds still a record of the record

isn't it still a record to this day

and uh

yeah it's at that point then I'm gonna

make me I'm gonna I'm gonna make it as a

fighter after that National final

Victory and I remember running back the

corners of Jimmy and jumping on the

ropes and saying I am the [ __ ] best

fighter you lot will ever see nails and

not only Sports entered in Leeds telling

everyone I am the king of the world I am

the best ever now this is just so

embarrassing when I look back this is a

guy who was in his 10th amateur fight uh

and I was telling people I'm going to be

a world champion and they were and they

must have been like what's going on Getz

jumps down from the a guy I've just

rendered unconscious and he's still

asleep I've jumped down off his corner

of the ropes after scream my head off I

walk back to me corner and I said to

Jimmy Jimmy how good was that it's

amazing wasn't it and he just looked a

man's [ __ ] shite

I thought

just knock someone out six seconds and

his response was

loan build he turns away to the other

coach and just goes

just as a face with a little thumb up I

didn't see that once again you'd have to

look back on the video and see him do it

uh he never gave me praise but then from

what he told

other people like Jimmy when Jimmy Daddy

got carried by six of us

past champions phones

present Champions Paul Smith and Mick

and future Champions who regardless the

future of the gym myself and Paul uh and

I was a future one better man I'd only

been around with the stage for two years

was going to be a future Champion so for

them to to predict that and say

unbelievable he'll stick with me forever

I have a name tattooed on my arm

yeah so all my tattoos means something

so yeah it's a

miss him every single day not many days

go by where I don't think of them yeah

I'm close with his family and I love his

lovely wife Benny and his kids Michael

and James and lovely family they've now

got kids and Jimmy's affected so many

people's lives massive massive parts of

mine I will never ever forget him and I

will never let his name go you know when

I whatever I am I will always take his

name with me

and then you go in and do exactly that

what what um Jimmy predicted

you would do yeah which is crazy I think

when an ABA title but I won three of

them I don't know if he predicted three

I went through the ABA titles a boxing

country go all around the world I have

amazing success as an amateur bearing

man that I've not got the style to be a

good amateur boxer my style was to run

the people unconscious I've never got an

unboxing ring and wanted to beat someone

on points ever well that's a lie one

time I did I got in the ring against a

guy called Danny price and I really

liked Danny I didn't want to hear

something the only time I've ever got

into a fight I didn't want to hurt

someone yeah

Anya one and then I just I'd never

amateur boxing

is about skill and class and it's it's a

proper sport professional boxing is a

brutal horrible business it's not a

sport it's literally a way of life you

don't live professional boxing the way

it needs to be lived you will get found

out every single time and it will leave

you in a bad way amateur boxing was a

beautiful sport I was part of a team I

was in the Thunder ABC I had great

amazing team made out of amazing coaches

understand that these cultures in these

amateur gyms they aren't there for money

because there's no money for them

they're there for the love of the sport

and to help kids that gym has saved more

lives than anyone I've ever been in my

life every boxing gym does amateur gym

and people use this and use the phase oh

this thing saves life it literally does

it save mine it saved numerous Lads I

know when that Jim's lives there's

numerous lives there who have been to

jail uh

numerous slots who have been there who

have been shot stabbed I've shot and

stabbed people uh and it's and that

boxing gym has kept them on the street

now like there was there's so many wars

that have gone on in and around that gym

but when you went in that gym that was

the safest place in the world because no

one would come and knock him and do

anything to anyone because that was the

safety ads when you went in the boxing

gym and that was because of the respect

you had for someone like Jimmy

and that's what he demands that's what

saves areas it's literally you're

policing your own neighborhood

something that has completely gone into

these environments no one cares no more

like there is no hierarchy within a

criminal environment there is no

hierarchy on the street no more because

every kid is out for himself they do not

care that boxing gym demands respect and

no matter who you are or what you've got

you give that respect to that boxing gym

so Jimmy was a massive massive part of

that yeah and yeah we were very

fortunate as all of us to have them

without a meeting would have changed so

many that fights his lives in that place

and in that Community as well I don't

it's not an understatement when I say

save lives he literally did

you said that the coaches that aren't

there to make money but a lot of the

fighters don't ever make good money

unless they get up up near the top of

the sport right and I was I was actually

really surprised to hear in one of the

conversations you had where you said you

hadn't even become a millionaire until

pretty late into your career yeah I've

become a millionaire until I become

followed up called David day yeah when

you think about what you're doing for a

living you you smashing your head up

you're smashing other people's faces up

yeah and it wasn't until you fought

David Haye which was in 2017 right

correct where you you became a

millionaire I remember that fight so

clearly I think suspicion I stayed up

front I don't know I think I stayed up

for it but must have been somewhere in

the world but I remember watching that

fight so clearly and how it played out I

remember every round and the twists and

turns and the emotions surrounding it

all that was madness madness crazy yeah

basically being fighting as a

professional Army life at that stage as

both been fighting as a boxer Army life

and

bear in mind when I go into the engage

David hey I'm British Commonwealth

European world champion I've achieved

everything could possibly come with in

boxing I'm still not a millionaire I'm

topping bills I've thwarted the evidence

football stadium gooderson Park have

defended my world title at the echo

rioska you know I've sold out multiple

venues at this point I've fought on Sky

Box Office multiple times at this stage

and it wasn't because you were spunking

your money at all you were blowing your

money wise with me money I was I was at

this stage

after I've won the world title until

before I fight David Haye I I Don't Own

Me house out right yeah

I've got property one property that a

rent helped me first house

after that I've got the second property

that I've got a mortgage on

that's all I have to be name at that

stage in life

why how does that happen because that's

boxing for you is it boxing yeah yeah

really that's boxing for you that's

professional fighting unless you team

professional with a gold medal there

ain't no money at the start and you've

got a bank how good do you really

believe you are how much do you really

believe in yourself because you've got

to back yourself all the way

so you know after five professional

fights it may hand me left hand foreign

so I'll get an operation on and off the

best sage in the world his name is Mike

Hayton and I didn't even have enough

money to pay for the operation

because I fought in the December

I snapped me handing off me me middle

knuckle here this snaps in half and then

I spend all of the six thousand pound

that I've just earned to give the kids

the best Christmas they can possibly

have

on January the 11th I'm skinned I

haven't got a single penny in the bank

I've got a mortgage to pay I've got kids

to provide for

but everyone thinks from the outside I'm

this board and professional and I've got

loads of money because I've got a new

car and whatever have you and at this

stage I'm still living in my Terrace

House in Old swan in Liverpool but from

the outside looking inside he's on TV

he's fighting if I said to people I earn

six thousand pound the fight of x amount

to lose the promoter extra monster loose

the manager extra monster lose to the

trainer I'm breaking even I'm lucky if

I'm getting out with foreground

three and a half

lucky after I paid the cup man all the

expenses in training very lucky if you

get out with that you definitely don't

clear it because don't forget she wants

haircuts as well the queen

hmrc so you know uh

yeah so very very tough so then you have

to do

extracurricular activities to finance or

more money and provide food on sale for

your kids so it's very bad but I

couldn't expect I know what it's like to

be skinned I know it's like not to have

a penny I felt Financial pressure

it's just frightening frightening thing

and I understand why people do the

things to do no one can tell me nothing

about being skinned or whatever people

say to me now you would know it's like

to be skinned yes you would

I don't know what's like to be skipped

with two kids as well

so it's patchy fine

so you figure a way out and you get

through it

and say oh I'm achieving that I've that

I've done and and had

it was all off the just to maintain that

dream of one day becoming a world

champion the frightening part is imagine

getting to that point in life becoming

world champion all that and then

thinking my wife then says to me and

she's not my wife at the time she still

need bed well she'll always be me bad

yeah I'm saying to her

she comes down I win the world title of

God doesn't Park I'm on a bank holiday

Sunday 29th of May 2016. uh yeah what am

I supposed to show you that as well

that's the Delta win from goodison to

goodness and park that's the Bell to win

I'll watch that now great fight thank

you

thank you so 29th of May 2016.

I've completed the game I've completed

the story The I'm someone in life who's

I've I've seen through me lifelong dream

my dream in life was to fight to go to

some Park you know that was the best I

was ever going to achieve the WBC Tower

goodison Park I've lived I've seen me

dream through

but I wake up on Monday well that's a

lie I didn't wake up I didn't sleep so I

goes down the kitchen on Monday morning

bank holiday Monday I mean Mrs comes

down

she says to me

that's it now you've done it it's time

to stop

and I'm like yeah I've achieved

everything I set out to do and yeah it's

gone well I said but Gail was so

financially far from security that I've

got to keep going

at this stage she now understands

because she used to think boxing was a

game she used to think like as an

amateur she didn't even recognize it was

she was like you've got head guards on

it's it's not even boxing it's just it's

it's basically it's a gamer tick and I

was like [ __ ] sake girl if you only

knew I mean but I had God on you and

give you a job he'll soon have a [ __ ]

different opinion but she's here she

soon lands she soon learns how I lose

the brutalize my body cannibalize my own

body there'd be times when I had come on

from training and not even remember

where I've been

[Music]

this five nights that I've had that I

can't remember anything I've turned up

to Arena's head of 12 now if I come home

and not even known I've had the fight

I've been

I've lost weeks at a time because I've

been dieting so hard my body's just gone

into complete

overdraft I've drove home from Sheffield

multiple occasions and not remember the

single thing of how I've got almond

drove I've been on autopilot and that's

just that's training camp that's life so

she starts to understand that how

dangerous and real it was

as time went on so once I've won the

world title she's like you need to stop

now it's time to just be a dad and I'm

like no it's not it's you know I've got

to financially secure this so then I

made the uh the audacious thing to

Target a man with a pound sign on his

head and the man who had that pound sign

on his head was David Haye the way I

looked today I knew David from way back

from Spartan many years ago when he paid

me uh if you ever seen the the program

Red Dwarf yeah remember H well David had

a pound sign on his head like H Adam Red

Dwarf to me but no one else could see it

it was just me added to the fact I knew

I could beat him I always knew what

because I spotted him 10 15 years

previously after I won that first ABA

title I'm talking about David hire me as

a Spartan partner for one day and

I'd I'd never ever been it's still to

this day it's the hardest I've ever been

hit he hit me so hard with 16 ounce

gloves on the head guard it made me back

like a donkey out of nowhere and it

always stuck with me but I took it I

didn't go down I should have went down I

still don't know since day how I didn't

but I took it said some good shot and I

always remember the look on his face off

how the [ __ ] are you still standing and

that look and then me being able to go

at him and put it on him stuck with me

forever and then me dropping him later

on the Spartan session let me know even

though he said he should give me a

thousand pound David you'll always owe

me that thousand pound

uh if you drop David you've got a

thousand pound in cash I've had them

Buddha's coach at the time I didn't get

it because he said it was just like he

had a hamstring problem that's why he

went down an absolute bollocks I put him

down on one knee he still owes me a

grand

go there

yeah I knew him I actually knew after

that spawn session I'm gonna fight this

man later in my career I told David

Price on the day me and David Price spot

on that day he was he was getting

notified Mark Hobson and I said to David

Price after that session I'm gonna fight

him one day David pressed by him as well

didn't he yeah and David said

David said

what are you on about price he said to

me I said I'm telling you one day I'm

gonna fight that man and I chased him me

holy I knew one day I'd get him one day

and my past will cross I just don't ask

me why I know that I don't know how I

know it

I just knew one day I advise him that

conversation at the kitchen table with

Rachel are you telling her at that point

after you've won that title that you

David Hayes next and that will make

money I didn't tell her he was next I

told her me career is now all about

money it's no longer about my selfish

needs and wanting to become world

champion she knows I'm I can be the most

selfish bastard in the world and I've

done it numerous times to it in life

I've just [ __ ] off listen with me

brother died I left and I [ __ ] off the

training camp I'm the most selfish

bastard you could meet

it's disgusting

but that's me

so I'm not that anymore I'm a different

person than I was then I I change all

the time and I'd like to think I'm not

changing I'm evolving I'm getting better

I'm learning from new mistakes but back

in the day when I was fighting I would

just pack up and leave

so you know I went through the worst

time in my whole entire life at that

stage and I just packed up and [ __ ]

off

so I couldn't do that when we lost

Rachel's brother Ashley that was the

worst had me whole entire life so this

was after you've beaten David that was

after the first time I beat him but yeah

yeah I can just pack up and just go and

then that was because you know why

because I've got a job to do and when I

was fighting it was a job and it was

only until I achieved my goals I've

become world champion that I then it was

a dream before I was world champion I

was chasing a dream and a goal when that

goal was achieved I actually thought

I'm not I I'll leave boxing alone while

I didn't think I'd give it 100

when I became financially secure I then

realized it wasn't a dream it wasn't the

money that I was chasing

I need something to drive me in life

I've only realized that since I've

retired so yeah do you remember that

feeling of looking at your bank account

after that first David Haye fight and

thinking I'm a multi-millionaire um now

and how like what was the feeling

video information I've been waiting for

about eight weeks maybe longer might

have been it might have been 12 weeks

for them for this for the box office

money to come through

but at this stage I already know in my

mind in the back I've now completely

relaxed I've beat David I've had the

crazy results I've now crossed over as

well I'm now uh a public figure like as

a world champion yeah I was known I'd

even done a Rocky movie for [ __ ] sake

before this sold me I crossed over to a

different kind of

set up a group of people are crossed

over to

your average person so your grandmothers

knew me at this stage things like that

that's when you start Fame really kicks

in but after beating David it's now gone

to another level because David's a

crossover star David's a great looking

kid these [ __ ] David hey he takes his

top off he looks a million dollars he's

David then he's just he's the king of

the world

when I beat him

it goes absolutely insane and I'm living

now in a different world but I ain't got

the money to be living the way I'd like

to live right now I've got enough of me

accounts the business has gone well at

this stage in time now after beating

David I've got enough to start buying

properties and building up our property

portfolio for the family and the kids

something I've always planned on doing

but

when Eddie phones me three months later

he goes tomorrow I'm just giving you the

call the box office money's landed he

said and tomorrow you're gonna look in

your bank and get a multi-millionaire

congratulations if anyone deserves it

it's you

the me and had the other backstory

and it's mad to think that I was I could

have walked away from Eddie I didn't

have no I've never had a contract with

at the end I'm probably one of I'm

probably the the highest profile fighter

he's had who's made the most money who's

never had the sign contract with ever

and we dealt on a handshake bear in mind

I was a world champion

with no deal in place I was hot property

I have to go to some Park Victory the

way I've done it and the way I executed

it it was perfect I then defend me world

title and a smashed some guy called BJ

Flawless like no one's ever done him

before I get rid of him and then I get a

phone call offered me 1.6 million pounds

to fight David Haye on BT box office

and I say no

and Eddie tells me on the phone and says

I can't offer you that money you've got

to take it and I said I'm not going to

take it I said be sure hands and we're

going to see this through he says to me

I can't give you that money I ain't got

that kind of money

to give you right now I said I know he

wants to fight me now he's going to deal

with you because David didn't want to

deal with Eddie he didn't like Eddie

yeah and yeah so Loyalty means just as

much to me as well but getting to that

stage I mean life was very very

difficult I can't explain to you how odd

it was I'm believing in yourself backing

yourself

when that phone call came in and at this

stage

I've got a few hundred grand I've got a

very few hundred grand it's cleared I've

paid me taxes I've done stuff like that

but at the time it's in a company so I'm

not really it's all good you can be a

multi-millionaire but it's stuck on a

company

you mean a millionaire

until you've got that money personally

in the taxes payments in your bank which

is very very hard to do that's when

you're the multi-millionaire

so I had to wait a long time to get to

that stage uh but thankfully enough I

did I carried on believing in myself and

show that I can be loyal even when

tested at the most difficult of time

because you can imagine when I've got

that phone call at night and this man's

off me 1.6 million pounds and says to me

I know you don't trust where this

money's coming from but I can have it at

your front door tomorrow

so this man says and believe you me this

man could

I have 1.6 million pounds in a suitcase

at my front door the next day and and I

say no to it and at this time I've got a

wife who's listening to this phone call

with me and she's saying you better have

a [ __ ] good plan or you're going out

the store

because at this stage now I've got three

kids

and I've just knocked back 1.6 million

pounds and I'm basically worth

480 Grand

I'm not in a company by the way as well

and they served me one point I just

quadruples me net worth so I'm Gonna

Knock It Back actually I said this day I

still can't believe I gotta do audacity

to do it but I mean that handshake means

something so we do we agree a deal when

the money comes in the bank

I'm not gonna lie it was

it called when something is the climax

yeah it is

seen it and I had to actually go to a

cash machine say I had I had online

access and I could have done it that way

but I didn't I wanted to go into because

we put the digits in I've got the

numbers

so yeah I wanted to see the actual the

zeros on the other thing and see what it

looked like and uh

it was over well I was a weird I'm

looking for it just didn't no

that's when I realized it wasn't about

money

was thought

this isn't it's not all it's made out to

be I didn't nothing's changed me as a

person nothing's changed in my life

I've still got three hungry kids

I've still got a Wi-Fi door yeah

yeah

not really changes you know how it feels

yeah I know I remember this I had the

same anti-climax feeling I've talked

about on this podcast a million times of

if this wasn't it Steve this is what we

thought we were aiming for and if this

isn't it then what the [ __ ] is it and

why was I doing all this stuff for you

know why was I working hard and being

obsessed it makes me question

why do I keep doing what why do I want

to keep handing I think now I I want to

keep earning for the sake of

I'm trying to pass it on

I tell myself that as well but I think

the insecure Kid Never Dies in you I

think the kid I I still I know he's

telling me now I say to myself now well

I just need to get to

uh nine figures in my bank account and I

go why

like who do I need to show off to no I

don't need to so but I still in me and

then I have I'd never really talk about

this but I have these little moments

where I start looking at Lamborghinis

again just out of the blue like four

times a year and then sometimes it

overflows and I'll send it to like my

manager they'll go what do you think if

I bought this range of this Rolls Royce

or I send it to my girlfriend I go hi

babe um what do you think what are you

[ __ ] oh I'm sorry

it'll be like I woke up again like the

kid took over the control rooms with it

but someone sent me a book

and I've I've actually done well I've

got it on me audiobook and I haven't

done it is it the chimp Paradox he sat

here Steve pieces the author I haven't

read this in Avenues but people have

said to me you should really read it

yeah you should and what you're saying

to me kind of it's the inner chimp is it

yeah it's sort of in the chimp the chimp

brain which is the kind of irrational

impulsive ego it's where your anger and

all of those things yeah so I don't know

why I've just been taught I've got it on

the audible because I don't really read

the books no more actually looking at

them I just listen to them it's changed

a lot of people's lives I absorb it

better has it yeah I only listen to

audiobooks as well and well other than I

actually downloaded your audiobook for

999 and then I was going between both of

them so I was going like I'd read this

and I'd read like chapter two and then

did you understand that okay

yeah I try and I try and slow down if

I'm talking to another scouter it's out

of control no it's always better when

the author narrates it as well but yeah

you should read that books in Paradox if

there's one book which

honestly helps you understand yourself

and you go

[ __ ] told me this 20 years ago about

my own brain it's that with your

relationships why sometimes you're you

argue with your wife how to get control

of those emotional moments it's all

about your chimp like taking over the

brain and Steve Peters who's the author

of the book who is like this brains

scientist who traveled all the way down

from somewhere at the top of the country

just to sit here and tell me about the

chimp thing genius hit that book my

business partner is an alcoholic and was

all had suicide ideation and didn't know

what was out of control with him and he

cites reading that book as the thing

that made him change his life sober it's

mad the way that's just brought that up

yeah because of the way you explain

things yeah it's honestly really and I

actually was reading the SEC so the

author of the gym Paradox wrote like a

second part to it and I was reading it

last week in Bali because I was having a

bit of me and my misses were arguing

about something a little bit and so I

went to the page about emotional control

just to understand why we have these

arguments where we just repeat ourselves

on Cycles yeah and it basically explains

in there that the chimp part of your

brain which is the front your brain it

will continue to do that until it feels

heard so I put the clothes the book and

went back downstairs to my misses and I

went I said to her I said just want to

make sure that you you understand I

completely heard what you're saying and

I repeat it back to what she said she

completely just stopped

because the minute the chin part of your

brain feels like it's understood then it

it's completely pacified but until then

it will just

you know when you Misses it's like yeah

I know that one so it's how to navigate

life yourself and those around you and

it's all the chin part of our brain

causes us a lot of problems but I've got

to read this [ __ ] book yeah I know

you for sure I've just done the biggest

plug in the world for it but that is

brilliant I had a few words to say about

one of my sponsors on this podcast as

the seasons have begun to change so has

my diet and

um right now I'm just going to be

completely honest with you I'm starting

to think a lot about slimming down a

little bit because over the last couple

of probably the last four or five months

my diet has been pretty bad

um and it started to show a little bit

really over the last two months I go to

the gym about 80 percent of the time so

I track it with 10 of my friends in a

WhatsApp group and this tracker online

that we all use together and so one of

the things I'm doing now to reduce my

calorie intake and trying to get back to

being nutritionally complete and all I

eat is I'm having the fuel protein shake

thank you heal for making a product that

I actually like The Salted Caramel is my

favorite I've got the banana one here

which is the one my girlfriend likes but

for me salted caramel is the one

one of the moments that you talk to her

about you becoming you kind of crossed

over after that David Hay fight one of

the things I will never forget is the

raw emotion that came out of you after

you won that fight

the first one for the second one the

second one I believe yeah this one

actually does because of Ashley's

passing yes that brought me to the core

still does think about it every single

day

yeah that shit's horrible

he was he was like a brother to you and

he yeah he's Rachel's brother oh he's

basically my brother or Rachel's

brothers are my brothers my brothers and

their brothers uh I've known great since

she was nine years old so Ashley's 18

months younger than sort of No nasty

since bloody hell that makes him seven

the first time I met him

uh yeah that was not nice mate

and let's not get me wrong it affects

hair sisters and their brothers and her

mother and their father far more than

could possibly affect me the part that

affects me the most I've I've tried my

best to come to terms with losing Ash

the part that gets me the most

is I see hate my wife

it just it just kills her to the core

like you've got to understand that them

two grown up 18 months a party grow up

basically like twins so she adores them

here doors here they fight the argue

constantly as as siblings and then one

day's here the next day is just gone

and he'd gone on holiday yeah he gone to

be his his best friend's best man he was

just so basically went so worth widen

abroad in the most unruly country in the

world Mexico and just doesn't come home

so yeah patch if I meet I still remember

that they're getting the phone call and

[ __ ] like that yeah

horrible horrible time but there's not

much I can say that that hasn't already

been said just that the waste time meal

I've had it's something that

I'll never truly understand

never

that life could be so unfair

yeah there's just a kid who's innocent a

lovely lovely lad there

do you know what if if that if what if I

could swap play some what happened to

him would happen to me I could off say

well

he's seen his lifelong dream go through

he's lived his life and he's done some

bad [ __ ] too so I can kind of

accepted if it was myself I can't accept

such a kid like that who's just such a

nice

[ __ ] hell just loved life was happy

was always smiling always telling jokes

the life of the party

yeah yeah

it's completely unfair that's why I have

the colored red and the a angel people

think I'm some kind of baseball fan I

couldn't give a [ __ ] about baseball well

and as people will know the red a on me

arm is for Ashley and it's in red

because he was a mad libel fan and

followed them everywhere so people think

I absolutely hate red but I don't know I

actually wear it with a bit of Pride so

yeah just so many things like the kid

looked up to me as well

so yeah hard hard time make losing them

is the hardest thing that's ever

happened in my life better man I've lost

two grandparents

yeah

seeing people dying lots of crazy

scenario situations

yeah

but nothing's ever affected me like that

I was worse than Jimmy I was just

[ __ ]

just here one minute gone the next yeah

gone so

so what can you do

you said that nearly impacted your

relationship with Rachel as well yeah

definitely a big way definitely but that

was a shot over those I mean

I'd hope it bring us closer but I just

don't think my wife will ever get over

it well I know she won't I know she

wants a little brother and especially

when you haven't been given the answers

that we should have been given and

there's there's there is that there is

uncertainties people that could give us

the answers but they won't so yeah

yeah

very very hard I I assuming our breaks

my wife Anna sisters and her sister and

a brother and a mother and father

especially

a child a parent should never bury a

child in any way shape or form that is

the most Hollow and frightening thing

you could possibly imagine losing one of

your children how they got through it

and how they get through it I'll never

know

yeah very hard yeah

I always think of The Selfish things

I've done once again I've just [ __ ]

off to camp

after he died and just because I had to

honor that rematch I gave me where to

fight him again

and I shouldn't have

uh it's a regrepo I found a way to get

through it and navigate through and got

the job done

you regret giving him your word that

you'd fight him or go no I've gone

through with it should never have done

it selfish

but that's me

either

I gave me weight and and when they give

someone your word you've got you've got

it only

when you see you're [ __ ] off the cam

is that like a form of escapism where

you like the [ __ ] off the camp

becomes this distraction where you don't

have to face the game the pain on the

truth and bear in mind I'm definitely

facing the pain because I just climbing

myself to sleep every night that I'm in

Sheffield

every night I climb yourself to sleep

but I know my wife's at home kind of

self-sleep as well my kids are with her

oh yeah I'll do that for three months so

I go to come for 12 weeks at a time 14

weeks for that one because I know how to

lose x amount of weight

uh

yeah you're alone in a hotel room crying

yeah

yeah whole Holiday Inn Express in

Sheffield me the microwave and my iPad

I'll meet you seven yeah

are you sure the pictures once a week as

well on me on and just sit there

sometimes I've tried not pictures of me

on and I've just had a cap on me hold

over and just cried watching films

because I just

it's Michael's I can deal with losing

Ashley I can't deal with see my wife in

pain that I can't change that's the

worst part

still in pain she'll like she she

wouldn't speak to anyone about it she

will she had just bottle it up I thought

one day she could come to terms of but

she can't I know she can't

it's the worst feeling in the world man

it's helpless

so yeah it's tough in one of your

interviews when you're talking about

this you you referenced that phase of

your life I think as being you feeling

like you were depressed is that is

accurate you felt depressed through that

that's what depression feels I I don't

want to tap on that kind of weird

because I feel people use it these days

do they benefit I feel people abuse it

yeah I feel like it's used today as a

contraction part to gain traction or to

people actually aim from money from

saying they're depressed uh

but if that's what Depression was yeah

grind yourself to sleep and not being

able to solve a problem for the life of

you you don't know how to solve it uh

and there's nothing made me happy

nothing

like not not the only time I was ever

happy is when I seen a smile when I seen

her smile and that was very briefly in

that period of time like even now to