You know what, Mark? Just pay the money

and fix it. Like, just stop.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> There's so much going on.

>> That listen, President Trump plans to

install big tech names like Mark

Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, and Jensen

Wong to a technology council to weigh in

on AI policies and other issues. We were

not invited

>> AI policy. Buy more of my [ __ ] US

government buy more. Give me what I

need. You know, it's again

>> no regulation and buy more of my [ __ ]

That's going to be their anybody who has

a different alternative view that these

are the only experts. Our invit say I

would say our invitation's lost them in

or the dog ate our invitation but he

hates dogs. So Trump ate our invitation.

I just don't this list is nobody who has

any doubt about it, nobody who has any

good research. No one whose interests

are not aligned with it. No regulation

with with any

>> conflicts everywhere.

>> Everywhere. I just

>> Well, do you know Jensen Hong's a big

fan of selling being able to sell his

chips into China despite the fact these

are the chips that you do with and track

Ohio

and and you know I just this god these

people like you think if you were a real

president and I think this guy is losing

it every single day and including the

polls which are just like look out below

but um it's really amazing that he

doesn't want other inputs like that may

vary from his rich friends. It's just I

find it it's just not good policy not to

have people who doubt each other and

debate it. I just I don't understand.

We're waiting for an invite. Even just

you. Even you if he needs the white guys

and

>> even you.

>> Well, you be good.

>> I love that. Well, I think you even you.

I mean,

>> you're the white guy. They're not going

to have me. I'm irritating to all of

these people. And so, uh, you know, I'm

just saying. I'm just saying

>> you uh speaking of which

>> Oh, yeah. Someone was someone said I

don't know on one of these many many

platforms which are just so good for

your mental health

>> that car was a total shill for big tech

>> and I I I

wrote

>> do you realize like I have been on when

you go on a board and they don't want

you on the board they stick you on the

nominating and governance committee

which has absolutely no power

>> information okay

>> and your job your job is to find new

directors and it's just it It's it's

literally like, you know, put them put

them at the weird kids table. And so

I've of course served on a lot of

nominating and governance committees

>> and where you're supposed to recruit new

board members.

>> If you weren't such a pain in the ass to

these people,

>> you'd be [ __ ] chairman of SpaceX

right now. I would be

>> because over the last 20 years we have

correctly started saying all right let's

try and broaden the aperture and bring

in candidates who potentially don't look

smell and feel like us and aren't

members of the same country club. So, a

a journalist, a a gay journalist who's

covered tech, you were built in a

factory of lesser.

>> I'm gonna go on a board next year. Well,

let's discuss that. You're

>> I know, but the reason I I mean this

sincerely, Cara, you're not going to

have me on.

>> The reason you haven't been invited uh

to be on

>> I was invited to one. I was invited to

one.

>> Okay. But the reason you haven't been

invited to half a dozen

>> is because you get in their face.

>> Yeah.

on boards. Nobody's going to put They

don't mind someone who has alternative

opinions or whatever,

>> but ever since, quite frankly, I'll be

blunt, ever since I started becoming

more outspoken on podcasts,

>> I used to get invited to go on three or

four boards a year, it's gone way down.

>> Wow. Interesting.

>> Because the public CEOs are like,

>> the public CEOs are like, "Okay,

>> no,

>> let's call him. Let's bring him in.

Let's talk to him." But I don't want him

in my boardroom.

>> Let me address something though. This

week, I gave a thing at Syracuse

University. They asked me this amazing

to

>> the orange men and I was talking about

things that I've talked about a lot

about CNN and the Ellison's owning it

and this and that and where AI is going.

>> A little controversy this weekend. A

little controversy. By the way, by the

way, I just want to say you want to talk

about it.

>> I just I just want to say that I find

David Ellison very attractive.

>> I do too.

>> And Larry Ellison is a huge big brain

thinker.

>> He's a nice guy. He makes great movies.

>> I would absolutely love to work for

them.

>> Yes. Okay. All right. Listen. This is

what happened. I was telling things I've

said 109 times before. I don't want to

work for a tech mogul. I don't. I just

never have. Walt and I didn't take money

from

>> as opposed to a media mogul.

>> You worked for media? Absolutely. Yes.

Yes.

>> I'm running challenge here. So, you'd

rather work for Rupert Murdoch than

Larry Ellison?

>> I We left Rupert Murdoch, my friend. I

>> You did work there. You did work there.

You check as fast as I could get out. I

got out.

>> How long were you there? Hold on. Hold

on. Hold on. How long are you there?

>> Just like two years before we could get

out.

>> Was there two years?

>> Yeah. No, I was there a long time, but

he didn't buy it for a while. In any

case, Scott, we left. We left News Corp

because of Rupert Murdoch and that

behavior around the the the the taping

of that the dead girl was awful.

>> Was awful. We left like very soon after

and we we on purpose.

>> Was this the voicemail thing?

>> Yes.

>> Oh god.

>> I know. Exactly. So, we did that and we

took money. We we were offered money

from Silicon Valley venture capitalist

and we took money from Terry Seml who

was had a media fund.

>> Oh, yeah. Yahoo. CBS.

>> Yeah. Anyway, he's a lovely guy, amazing

guy, amazing person. He had a media fund

and then we took money from NBC, but we

were offered venture capital money and

we didn't take it because I was like,

"These [ __ ] they're going to [ __ ]

me."

>> There's a word for that, venture

capitalist. But anyways, go ahead.

>> But anyway, I we didn't take the money

and then I just don't want to work for

tech people. And I've said that to you

on this podcast a dozen [ __ ] times,

right? Haven't I?

>> A dozen. So, I I repeat that again. But

what what what I did was Scott McFarland

who left CBS and is now with Midas um

touch which is a very fast growing thing

and they're going into news now instead

of just news aggregation which is a cool

thing and they Scott is an astonishing

journalist he did an amazing job

>> around the January 6th and the justice

department astonishing very handsome man

by the way you would love his

handsomeness very tall because he went

to Syracuse and so he was the MC and as

a joke he was like you know he was

talking about going independent oh no

cuz he looks like an ad for an anchor.

He a typical TV anchor and he was, you

know, he's like, "Oh goodness, I'm

taking a big leap." And and I was like,

"Oh, it's going to be great." And I said

to him, I said, "You're you made the

right decision." And I I was looking

directly at him and joking. I'm like,

"You don't want to work for the I you

don't want to work for the Ellison's. I

mean, he's a terrible person." I was

just like like laying it on as a joke.

The whole crowd laughed. I was not I

don't think Larry Ellison's a terrible

person. He's he's got he's a he's

actually very funny. I don't agree with

him on a lot of things. He's an amazing

entrepreneur. He has great aesthetic

taste, by the way, and his ship, his

boats are fantastic. Like, I was joking

to Scott McFarland directly, and somehow

these reporters were like, "Cara Swisser

thinks Larry Ellison is a terrible

person." And it was crazy. And it's also

all the things I've said before many

times. Like, it's it's kind of weird.

And then it became a thing. Whatever. I

I like, by the way, let me just be

clear. I like David Ellison. He's a nice

guy. Larry Ellison is a tough dude. I'm

sorry. He really is. And people can

dislike him because he's had a really

He's been a tough C cowboy over the many

years. That said, I do think he's very

innovative and has done astonishing

things. And so, but I don't want to work

I I don't want to work for tech people.

I don't. And I I think it's perfectly,

you know, legitimate. And frankly, the

decisions they've made have been

terrible around stuff that concerns me.

And that worries me of them taking over

salmon. So what big deal?

>> I think you're being bigoted against

wealthy white men. And you know,

>> Larry Elson is a very funny guy. That is

true. He's a very witty. Anyway, I don't

think it's a big deal, but whatever.

Whatever.

>> You know, you wouldn't have to worry

about this if you weren't living

forever.

>> See, this is the difference. The CNN

people are like, huge premiering soon.

and she insults the new owners. I mean,

>> I'm I'm being very serious. I get I'm

speaking at

>> one of these events tonight. Um anyways,

but um I get a huge amount of power from

my atheism because I find it very

comforting to know at some point

>> everyone I'm worried about is going to

be dead and so am I.

>> Yeah.

>> I find it actually quite liberating to

realize,

>> okay,

>> squeeze all the juice you can out of

this lemon called life cuz we're going

to be dead soon and take risks. And if

you [ __ ] up, it really doesn't matter.

>> We are on the same wavelength.

>> No. In a 100 years, no one's going to

remember us or anybody we care about. So

>> anyway, uh moving on. The Pentagon, this

is troubling to me, is sending roughly

2,000 troops uh from the 82nd Airborne

Division to the Middle East. As of this

recording, there's been no decision to

put, I hate this expression, boots on

the ground, but that's what it is. Um

Trump is talking a lot of talk this

week, saying the war has effectively

been won. Iran wants to make a deal and

negotiations are happening right now

even as Iran disputes that and I hate to

say it but I believe Iran and I don't

like the people who are running Iran and

he said he got a gift from Iran calling

it a very big present worth a tremendous

amount of money and tied to oil and gas

no idea what that is the US is all I

think he's just making [ __ ] up now the

US has also well he always does he's

also sent Iran a 15-point plan to end

the war demands including dismantling

nuclear sites ending enrichment and

reopening the straight of Hormuz

We certainly had some of those things in

place before. And as potential talks may

or may not be taking shape, there are

reports that Iran would prefer to deal

with Vice President J. D. Vance over

Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. I Wow,

that's a that's a choice, right? That's

a choice. But I would agree with the

Iranians on that. Um, and Vance has been

um the person who, you know, is going to

be running for president and could

possibly be president and also has been

opposed to the war quietly. Um, he that

he certainly ran on the idea of no more

wars and he's he's also a a veteran. Um,

I don't know what do what do you think

about that? What's going on there? It

seems insane. It's all um I mean I go to

the markets you know so there was an

unusual amount of futures that changed

hands at

>> talk about this

>> well I I believe that in a digital world

where forensics and AI and investigative

journalists

u one of the wonderful things about

America is that people see incentive in

in finding out what actually went down

and I think that's one of the wonderful

things about our our society

I think you're going to see President

Trump

four or five years post his presidency

sitting in front of a camera and a jury

pretending to be too old and that he

just doesn't remember him telling his

buddies, his friends, his family members

that oh I think I'm going to announce

that the talks are going really well

even though according to the Islamic

Republic there are no talks which will

send the markets it's skyrocketing and

then when it comes out 24 48 hours later

that in fact there are no talks and then

the markets oil surges again and the

markets go down.

>> This is an insider traders.

>> It's right from the White House. It's

right from the White House.

>> Ivan Boowki

>> could not have dreamt of this situation.

>> The ability to trade

>> Yep.

>> uh on these on near certainty. The

president knows that if he just a he can

say any he believes he can say anything

he [ __ ] wants. It doesn't matter. I

can lie. I can be full of [ __ ] Just put

out press releases. It doesn't matter.

Kind of the you know funding secured

over and over. And I know that the

markets will respond swiftly to my

comments. There is now zero day options

where you can buy options that expire by

the end of the day. And I'm going to go

out on a limb here and think and say

that sometimes the president doesn't

have that much fidelity to rule of law

or conflicts of interest.

>> I find it like I this has happened over

and over again. There is they must just

he must just say things while on the

toilet and people then trade or

whatever. And you know, interestingly,

let me note lawmakers are introducing

bipartisan bills to ban prediction

markets from listing there. There's a

lot of action on this now from listing

sports bets and to prohibit members of

Congress from trading in certain

markets. Facing the heat, Kowi plans to

block athletes, coaches, and officials

from betting on their sports and

political candidates from trading on

their campaigns. And Poly Market

announced finally enhanced market

integrity rules, including banning

trading on stolen confidential

information. I mean, this has happened

rather quickly and quite it's quite

important that this happen. Um, you

know, it's really uh it's it's just

grift. It's just out and out grift that

these numbers and you know that

Democrats are prepared. This is like so

deep in the heart of easy to prove,

right? This kind of stuff and who's

doing it. And so I think they better,

you know, they better hope uh they get

those pardons from from uh from Trump

and he pardons himself because this is

just really it's let let me break it

down for regular people. They're making

money at your expense and cheating while

doing it. Like what? I don't know what

else to say.

>> Look, the Democrats engage in what I'll

call small cap corruption. And that is

it's not illegal to trade stocks right

now is if you're a US Congress person.

>> I think it should be.

>> And and even though there are

regulations and guidelines against it,

the fines is a slap on the wrist. So the

incentives are if I'm sitting in a you

know the Senate if I'm on the in the

defense uh committee or the intelligence

committee and we're talking about a $30

billion contract to Northre Grumman and

it looks like it's going to go through

and my guess is Northre Grumman will put

out a press release in 72 hours.

Hey honey. Hey Paul Pelosi.

>> Mhm. I really like Northrup and I just

want to be even-handed here. I think

Trump

>> Scott, you do this every time. This is

like sh massive corruption in a

different

>> It's just corruption on a different

scale, but it's still corruption.

>> It is, but you tend to go right to Nancy

Pelosi who's leaving Congress. We we we

know we should have passed these

>> because,

>> okay,

>> because in order to be taken seriously,

we have to be critical thinkers and

apply to both sides of the aisle.

>> I understand this is

>> so but let's look at the data. over the

last what is it 20 years the S&P has

tripled and the Pelosi portfolio is up

sevenfold

>> and nothing she has done is illegal.

>> This is a certain type of corruption.

What Trump has done is said okay that's

small ball.

>> You're corrupt for millions. I'm going

to be corrupt for billions. Yeah,

>> because what he's done,

>> it's I'm not sure it's illegal, but

we've never we've been dependent upon

and Barry Goldwater predicted this 50

years ago.

>> We have been too dependent upon a series

of norms

>> as opposed to laws and slowly but surely

seated power.

>> Absolutely right.

>> So Trump says, "Oh, everyone's doing

it." Marjorie Taylor Green was doing

everyone in not everyone a significant

number of people in Congress have been

trading stocks and beating the market.

>> Mark Wayne Mullen was one of them.

>> Uh they can't and also in my solution I

think they should make I think people in

Congress I think representatives should

make a million dollars a year and

senators should make $2 million a year.

>> I agree.

>> Every they make I think 168 or $178,000

a year.

>> Small

>> if you have two homes and you're living

in DC

>> Yeah. And you you weren't rich before

running for Congress.

>> We should pay for their apartments. I

mean, I just

>> You can't afford you can't afford

>> You should have these nice apartments

for them that are actually secure. So,

put make them more secure.

>> The Singapore model, the probably the

best run nation in the world, the

Singapore model. They pay their elected

officials a lot of money and they have

zero tolerance.

>> You cannot go to work for a lobbying

firm or a pack company. There has to be

a sunlight period or whatever they call

it, sunshine period. You cannot in any

way have any insight domain benefit in

any way. We find out you've called your

cousin in the Philippines and here or

she is trading stocks. You're probably

going to get lashed. That's literally

what it's like in Singapore. And what do

you know? There's no corruption.

Anyways, my he has taken it to an

absolutely new level. But just circling

back where I started, we're going to

find out that the greatest levels volume

of insider trading in history are

happening and originating out of

Pennsylvania Avenue.

>> Absolutely. 100%. One of the things

that's uh problem I think there there's

there were people talking about whether

it's treasonous or not to release the

things because these are these are these

are boots on the ground that could get

hurt and everything else. There's a

whole level of complexity here because

they're betting on possible deaths of

Americans and others. Um

sending JD van, where do you imagine

this Iran thing because it is going back

and forth and back and forth and the

market is trying to grock it and it it

feels very whipssaw. Um so far they've

given it hasn't suffered that badly. You

had talked about a real decline in the

market. Um, is this the thing that will

pull it off or just very briefly because

we have to get to some other

>> the thing that pull you mean sending JD

Vance

>> but but sending Vice President Vance is

a signal. There's a few signals here.

One, the scariest signal is we have

amphibious ships and combat marine

marines being deployed to the region.

This is either you could argue he's just

playing poker or in fact he's planning

to put in the terminal like boots on the

ground in Carg and maybe do a swap where

I'll let the oil flow through CarG if

you ensure the Straits of Hormos are of

safe passage. There's all sorts of game

theory going on here. He has a tendency

to lie and then before before a quote

unquote surprise attack, which I think

is bad for our brand long term. America

has to be seen as doing what they say

and meaning what they say and saying

what they mean. Right.

>> But anyways, sending Vance is a signal

because

>> Well, no, they're not sending Vance. The

Iranians want Vance.

>> Well, but the Iranians want Vance. And

this is quite frankly, this is a signal

that for the people who want this to end

because Vance is on the record of saying

>> for a long time that these types of

misadventures overseas were a bad idea.

>> He's been really quiet.

>> Well, he hasn't. He's like, I think I

won't let send let let Scott Bent do

that. He the last thing he wants to do

is get on himself

>> with Kirsten Welker and have her bring

up about 5 million

>> times

>> tapes and where he said under no s World

War II under Biden. We could should

never get into these quagmires overseas.

>> There's just

>> he's trying his best to justify it.

>> He is literally just doing everything he

can to stay.

He's literally hiding behind the

curtain. He's like, "Don't ask me." Um,

he's he's done a few like real pretzel

moves that are really problematic. Um,

but it's

>> but the RGC probably believes correctly

he's more likely to to be empathetic to

want to deescalate. So, this is a good

side. The fact that the Trump

administration is entertaining this, he

he both sides, I think he is probably

the guy

>> that can find common ground here.

>> Not Rubio. Well, we'll see. Um I

>> Rubia is perceived as a bit of a hawk. A

lot of people think he's the shadow

president right now. What has been the

most militarily adventurous

administration in a long time

>> incredible and they're planning Cuba

next which is like oh god

>> that I mean

>> leave let them die themselves. They're

already on their last legs. Just let

them fall and then we'll move in the

hotels.

>> I'm sorry. Under the oposis of having an

opinion about [ __ ] I have no domain

expertise in. Let me just say that the

smartest thing we could do

geopolitically as it as it relates to

Cuba

>> would be to be sending humanitarian aid

to them right now.

>> If you want the people to rise up and

think, you know, the Americans aren't

that bad. Maybe we should normalize

relations. At some point, the Castro

family will die out.

>> It would be starching our hat white and

sending

>> sending power, fuel, and food to Cuba

right now. Yeah. and instead were anyway

>> it worked out so well for the Kennedy

administration. But what's really

interesting is this is all having an

effect. Democrats pulled off a

surprising win in Florida. Actually, a

pair of them, but one that was

particularly sort of surprising,

flipping two legislative seats,

including the district that covers Mara

Lago. Like in he now has a Democratic

representative. Emily Gregory, a

firsttime candidate with a background in

public health, won by a little over two

points. Astonishing. This was a big

Trump uh district. Trump has taken to

social media to support her opponent

obviously and President Trump who's

called voting by mail cheating voted by

mail in the election. I mean these the

dem the list of things Democrats have

won recently is really something else.

Um to see them winning in all sorts of

districts and from people I know down

there they're just furious at him.

They're they really are these are all

his fans like or people who voted for

him. Um, and it's really it's I'm not

sure it's a I think people I think they

they're going to try to steal the

election. I don't think it's going to be

possible givingven the overwhelming

numbers that are going to happen. And

and another thing that's affecting him

and these are two topic as we record

negotiations to end the fivewe DHS

shutdown or standstill with Congress

scheduled to go into recess any minute.

The Republicans have brought a number of

possibilities to Trump but he's turned

them all down and the Democrats are

sticking. The sticking points are still

ICE funding and enforcement reforms.

Very simple things. Don't wear masks. Uh

bring in judicial warrants and um and uh

and cameras. It's nothing is that hard.

No one was happy again from the latest

rose from the Republicans. TSA officers

will miss in their paycheck this Friday

if the deal hasn't reached. They've lost

hundreds of employees. On Tuesday

morning, Delta Airlines suspended

specialty services for members of

Congress. Yay. They're going to have to

wait in line like everybody else, which

I think is great, all of them. Um, you

said in your la our last show that

grounding private planes might move the

needle. Um, and I love that Delta and

others are pushing back. The TSA is

pushing back against

>> Delta. Great great brandenhancing.

Brilliant [ __ ] move by Delta.

>> And no one likes ICE there. Like they're

you TSA has said it's useless. The

airlines think it's useless. It's there

was a pilot that got on social media

where he's like this [ __ ] sucks

people. And I I have to say this is all

at Donald Trump's door because he's

refusing to deal because of the Save Act

and letting people wait in line. I love

that Congress people have to wait in

line. I love it. And so talk about this

win in Mara Lago and and what's

happening with TSA because besides Iran,

this is yet another series of things

that are indicators, leading indicators.

Thoughts? District 87, Palm Beach C

County, as you noticed, includes, you

know, White House, Florida. And a really

impressive young woman, I love this

Gregory.

>> Fantastic.

>> 40-year-old small business owner and

military spouse running for office for

the first time, defeated Republican John

Maples, who had Trump's complete and

total endorsement. She won with 51.2%

with turnout roughly at 29%. Trump

carried the district by 11 points in

2024. That's a lot.

>> The previous Republican incumbent, won

by 20 points. I mean, this is And then

let's go up

>> Let's go up the, you know, let's go up

the coast of the great state of Florida.

Democrat Brian Nathan, a Navy veteran

and Union organizer, upset Republican

Josie Tomcow by just 408 votes, a margin

of.5%,

which could trigger a machine recount.

But Tomcow outspent Nathan more than 3

to one. And Nate, it looks like Nathan

won and received over 400,000 in kind

contributions from the Florida

Republican Senatorial Campaign

Committee. The previous Republican

incumbent, Jay Collins, won the seat by

10 points in 2022. And this all bubbles

up to the most shocking, exciting, and

somewhat it almost I'm almost worried

we're peing too early right now.

>> No,

>> the prediction markets.

>> Mhm. uh Cali is saying for the first

time

that it's more likely than not

>> that Democrats

take the Senate.

>> Yeah. Mhm.

>> We When have we heard that? Everyone has

said it's

>> everyone the narrative so far from quote

unquote all the experts is it's likely

very likely Democrats will get control

of the House.

>> But the map is really difficult for

Senate. really difficult like looking at

the people

>> and now people more people are betting

their money on Democrats taking the

Senate. This is

>> it is I think the Democrats are fielding

much better candidate this woman and

seems I I love her. I was like I love

you. She was focusing in on maternal

health and affordability issues. You

know you have Abby Spanberger in

Virginia. You've got Mickey Cheryl.

You've got all even Mad people good

candidates everywhere. Yeah, Telerico

and not just centrist ones. Just really

good everywhere.

>> People fresh ideas.

>> Yeah. Fresh ideas, you know, tough

>> regulariz prostates, still childbearing,

actually think about kids, actually have

kids at home.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah.

>> I feel I feel really good about the

candidates. And the Trump ones look like

a bunch of cult members or acolytes that

really hate him secretly. And by the

way, let me stress to everybody, if you

hang around Republicans, off the record,

they eviscerate Trump. On the record,

they suck up to it makes them so awful.

Like, like, at least the Democrats fight

in public, I guess, than they do. Um,

but it's really um it's really something

to see what's happening here. That was I

think there's the Mara Lago one is

particularly notable obviously but

across the country in places where

Democrats have never won. Georgia,

Kansas, all these places they're they're

knocking up wins and and so that that

creates a real opportunity if Democrats

walk into it. And I think so far on the

local level like this, the candidates

have been speaking what they're

listening to voters and they're they're

they're not I don't think they're just

mouthing things like I think they

actually are concerned with what what do

voters want? This is our customers and

we're gonna give them what they want.

Anyway, Delta, let's give Delta a big

old

>> clap. I'm I'm uh I met the CEO there and

a good friend of mine's on the board.

>> Mhm.

>> The whoever whoever came up with this

idea.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh except that is one of the most

brandancing, thoughtful, egalitarian

American thing. This was such a an

amazing

>> Yeah.

um corporate move and it directly and

again it flies in the face of or not

flies in the face. It supports what I

believe is the greatest commercial

opportunity. I just had a phone call

with I think one of the most thoughtful

business leaders in America who runs an

iconic investment bank and I said to him

the greatest commercial opportunity in a

long time has been presented and that is

in a thoughtful nonad homminin

non-personal attack discussing values of

America and how they have been so

incredibly important to our capital

markets to do with Dario and Modi and

now to a certain extent what Delta

Airlines is saying and to say no this

isn't direct affront on the Trump

administration.

>> It's all Congress people. For people who

don't know, Congress people can sail

through security.

>> Yeah. But what this is saying is

>> people don't know that

>> the people blame Trump and the

Republicans mostly for this shutdown. So

by them saying this is unacceptable by

Delta saying this is unacceptable and

our leadership who has [ __ ] this up by

quite frankly demanding that the SEAB

act be a part of this or ICE funding.

>> We are no longer going to engage in

facilitating this.

>> Wait in line. Wait. Get in the back back

of the line. Back of the line, which is

great. All right. We we think it's

great. Get back in the line. Lines suck,

by the way. Um and it and it's terrible

for the TSA people who deserve to be

paid and ICE people are being paid and

they're doing nothing but buying coffee

and irritating people. They handed out

water in the line through security. How

stupid can you be? Okay, Scott, let's go

on a quick break. When we come back,

Meta and YouTube are found liable in the

first of the social media addiction

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distributor

Scott, we're back with more news. Meta

and YouTube have been found liable in of

harming a young user with features that

were addictive to her mental health. A

California jury found Meta must pay $4.2

million and YouTube 1.8 million. It's

not very much money. She asked for a

billion. The case focused on features

like infinite scroll and algorithmic

recommendations. As a reminder, both Tik

Tok and Snap settled before the trial

began. Uh Meta has also been found

liable for failing to protect young

people from online dangers in a New

Mexico case. There, Meta must pay 375

million, a little more, but still a

parking ticket for this company. The

company made 160 times that in revenue

last quarter. These verdicts are the

first in social media addiction trials,

social media impact trials. as the New

York uh Post cover said, metaculpa,

which we love. We love. Scott, what do

you think? Here we go. We're that we're

over the edge with juries involved.

Juries are tired of social media.

>> I generally want to get your viewpoint

on it, but my initial instinct is that

this is actually a big deal. It and it's

not about it's, as you said, it's not

about the parking tickets that have been

issued. It's that there's now legal

precedent for

what that the activities these firms

engage in is is makes them civily at

least liable. And the other piece of

information I got that I found

fascinating is their insurance companies

are trying to reject the claim saying

that they intentionally they knew they

were intentionally doing this and so

they're not covered by insurance. And my

sense is it's not about this case. It's

that the other several hundred or

several thousand cases against these

firms just got a lot stronger because of

this decision.

>> Yeah, there's a real there's a real

backup. You know, this has been

something you and I have been talking

about. I went back

>> Oh, you think?

>> Yes.

>> I thought I wrote I thought I wrote a

book on this about 10 years ago.

>> I did. I was just saying you wrote a

book on this and I wrote a book on this

and talking about these problems and how

liable they were, how lack of

accountability, lack of regulatory

scrutiny of anybody except some in other

countries. uh in fact rolling over for

them but both by Obama and Trump of

course because he takes money from them.

Um you know I think their high water

mark was standing in with Trump at the

inaugural. I think this was was in this

was starting to be in place when people

realized after January 6th I think that

social media has a real impact and it's

been a slow burn. That's for sure. And

our our regulators have done nothing.

Let me just say not in states in our

federal regulators and I don't mean to

say Amy Clolobachar and others have not

tried. I just think they have not been

successful because of the push back and

in this case I think you're going to see

furious push back by these companies

even for this small an amount right this

tiny amount of money. They're they're

because they don't want any

accountability for what they're doing.

They want to skate out of responsibility

and they can't because now it's in front

of juries and every person knows

addiction is an issue. Sloppy management

is an issue and threats to kids are an

issue.

>> I saw you on Anderson Cooper last night

and and you had I thought was exactly

the right point and we've been talking

about this and that is

>> the nation is actually pretty good at

recognizing externalities and harm. It

just doesn't act crisply. It took about

30 years with tobacco,

>> 20 years with opiates. Social went on

mobile in 2012,

>> it feels like that timing is about right

that about at 2032.

>> Unfortunately,

and I'm

personally agrieved quite frankly,

>> my kids got [ __ ] up on these things. I

>> you know, your kids, your your first

generation, your older kids, Alex and

Louie, had to endure this. And my sense

is they've come through it pretty pretty

>> unstable. And they had less of it. They

had less of it. It wasn't quite, you

know, they were, your kids are the zero,

ground zero. I think my kids were near a

blast zone, but not the same quite

thing. I think they they like YouTube.

They were a little bit on Snapchat, you

know what I mean? But it wasn't as

intense and hateful as it as it became

>> as as big tech always does. Mhm.

>> this praise on the poor

>> because if I'd had these devices and a

mother who was gone before I got up in

the morning and got home after sometimes

after I was asleep because she was

working and I was totally unsupervised

and I had YouTube and Snap and Uporn and

Meta and and Facebook,

>> I think I just would have been on these

things all damn day long. And as I was

going through puberty, my brain would

have been wired for constant squeezing

of a dopa bag, which I believe could

have very easily taken me away. I used

to leave my house to go hang out with my

friends cuz I was so bored. I'm not sure

I would have left my house.

>> You wouldn't. Why would you? Why would

you? I mean, one of the things that

they've done, and I think as as these

cases come to f, the discovery is going

to be brutal. I mean, I think they know

it. There's all kinds of evidence that

they know it in this case. A lot of

stuff came out that they want to they

want to attract tween cuz they're

lifelong customers, right? It's like

cigarette. It's literally like Joe Camel

when you read this stuff. If you put

cigarette in there um and what's

incredible here is I actually believe

the cigarette manufacturers knew exactly

the problem of nicotine. I think these

guys think that they're not it's not

their fault. It's never their fault. And

then they hide behind the first

amendment. Hey, it's just people

talking. And there was a great story in

the New York in the in the Washington

Post today about uh Republicans worried

about young Republicans being so

anti-semitic, Nazif focused, sort of

hateful. And where do you think this

comes from? And again, I don't blame

them fully. I don't I don't I don't

think it's fully, but they've created

addictive and necessary features without

any kind of guard rails in place or any

kind of what is it? It's It's not like

they're like, "Hey, let everything go."

And I think that's it's sort of like

they're evil babysitters, right? In some

fashion. And at some point, the

babysitter has to get dinged in in some

way. That that's they consider

themselves. It's not their fault if

people eat their shitty food. I I you

know what I mean? Like our tainted meat,

it's okay. Uh you know, and of course,

everyone else gets regulated but them.

>> Yeah. I I think the argument would be we

don't get any credit for all the good we

>> Yeah. all the good we

>> why aren't there parades

>> right that we that people do learn

people do it helps them with their

homework they do make connections you

know parents of kids with childhood rare

her childhood diseases social media does

add a lot of value it creates tremendous

economic growth a lot of highpaying jobs

there's a lot they would argue

>> they would argue we're a net good and I

would argue that's actually true the

problem is with the word net

>> and that is we're net beneficiary from

fossil fuels and pesticides. But we

still have we still have a Clean Air

Act. We still have an EPA. We still have

an FDA,

>> right?

>> And this is this is fossil fuels and

pesticides

>> with absolutely no emission standards.

>> No emissions. No.

>> No. When when I lived in LA, I was

talking I I went on vacation with a

buddy of mine. We grew up in LA

together. There were days where by the

end of the school day, you couldn't

breathe in,

>> right?

>> And they cleaned it up.

>> They cleaned it up. Unfortunately,

what's happening here?

>> Unfortunately, that I I thought of it

yesterday. I was trying to think I was

asked to go on and talk about this

>> and I instead I decided to go out and

drink uh cuz but the I was thinking okay

is this the beginning of the end? It's

not you know what this is this is the

end of the beginning. these fir this

industry is not going anywhere. But the

era of we, you know, we need to do

better from Cheryl Samberg or Mark

Zuckerberg weaponizing thousands of

lawyers and lobbyists to delay and

obuscate and gloss over the internal

research. I do think that era is coming

to a close.

>> Yeah. And um the the my favorite part of

the case is that uh there was an

undercover operation I think from the

attorney general in New Mexico where

they posed they created accounts posing

as an 11-year-old girl which was almost

immediately inundated with images and

targeted solicitations from wait for it

>> child abusers.

>> That's right. So, it took the attorney

general about 48 hours to figure this

[ __ ] out and we're supposed to believe

that Meta wasn't aware of it.

>> Yeah, we don't believe them and neither

did the jury, by the way. Um, we're

going to move on in a second, but I got

to say one of I did quote you last night

uh on Anderson um where you say, you

know, we're bound by the law but not

protected by it. And they're protected

by the law, not bound by it. Now they're

bound by it and they're going to fight

their asses off. You know what, Mark?

Just pay the money and fix it. Like,

just stop. like stop because the more

they resist the more a growing group of

people bipartisan across the country

recognizes the damage these companies

and then of course the same day Donald

Trump names all of these people to a

committee on AI with not ner a critic on

it right everybody with self-interest is

on that that that advisory committee and

nobody who's going to talk about the

possibilities of problem only up and to

the right and once again. They're going

to try to do it. And let me tell you

folks, we need to stop them now because

the damage they will do. They have shown

no no ability to control themselves. No.

>> No one under the age of 18 needs to be

on any of these.

>> And we hate to say that. I have to say I

hate to say that, but this is where we

are. Um, okay, Scott, moving on. I want

to start our next story by playing a

prediction you made just last week.

My prediction is OpenAI Sora social

media app will be shut down soon.

>> Oh, Sora, what do you know? You know

something?

>> No, I don't. I I've done no original

reporting, trust me.

>> Upon its release, Sora came out at

number one in the app store. Um, and

actually got more downloads out of the

gates than Chat GPT did. However, like

the parties ended. Downloads fell 32%

month over month in December and another

45% in January. And some Sora is the

little engine that didn't. And also

users continue to drop like flies.

You were right. I still think you had

inside information. Open a announced

this week that it's discontinuing the

Sora app. This is the video app they're

doing just months after launching it. Uh

this reportedly one of several steps the

company has taken to refocus the

business ahead of its potential IPO. Sam

Alman says, "The Sora team will now

shift to prioritizing longerterm bets

like robotics." Uh, as for the Disney

deal they did at the time, if you

remember, Scott and I talked about it, a

$1 billion investment in OpenAI, which

we thought they weren't really going to

give them that, and it was just a little

experiment that included licensing

characters for Disney is out. Disney's

out. Um, it was more of a press release

than anything yet. Um, so talk about

this prediction. And I I um just so I'll

also note Open A is closing in on a deal

to raise about $10 billion from

investors, bringing its latest funding

round to more than $120 billion. Jeez of

the [ __ ] we um so, uh talk about

this. I mean, they've had to shift very

quickly. I don't know what they're doing

in robotics, but they should just focus

on their core business, seems to me, but

uh thoughts on this? What did you know?

Come on, tell me the truth. Cara, Cara,

Cara. I don't I don't enjoy talking

about myself or taking credit for what

is arguably one of the most precient

>> predictions of the year in techn Oh my

god.

>> It was so good. I got to say I was like

he was right. Damn it.

>> My nipples are hard.

>> Mhm.

>> Touchdown Jesus.

>> I I approve these.

>> I am [ __ ] John Travolta when he was

thin and could dance. This is a ladies

for the for the people tuning in on the

YouTube channel. Watch his shoulders.

Watch his shoulders. Hello. to resist is

feudal. Um, okay. The weirdest thing

that was that was literally the easiest

prediction ever. By the way, it wasn't

>> Why did that why did you like when you

said it, I was like, why is he talking

about that? Like I get it, but

>> to be honest, this goes on a on a deeper

level. This goes to the notion greatness

is in the agency of others. I have a

data and research team that feeds me

with every good idea I ever had. And

this this young man named Dan Shalon, I

said, I need a prediction for Biba

today. and he wrote sore is going to be

closed down and he gave me a bunch of

data. So I can't take credit for this as

usual. I take credit for it but it was

my team that that came up with that

prediction.

>> He just saw the download because a lot

of apps go up and down right and many

like took forever for Meta to really

kill off the metaverse.

>> Okay. Open AI didn't shut down Sora

anthropic did.

>> Yeah. that of all the new of all the

incremental or new dollars being um

>> being won by AI companies in the

enterprise market. It used to be 60% of

new dollars being spent on AI from the

enterprise. We're going to we're going

to uh we're going to anthrop I'm sorry,

open AI. It's dropped to 30 cents on the

dollar and Anthropic has screamed to 70

cents on the incremental dollar being

spent by the enterprise on AI. Why?

Because see above, biggest commercial

opportunity in history. Say no to the

Trump administration. And also to be

fair, Anthropic's new products are just

outstanding. They are I have to say

>> they have more momentum right now than

any company in the world.

>> They're better. They're better. It's

like when you were using browsers. I

remember using Explorer and then

Netscape and then Explorer was better,

but then you know it was it was like

that. You're like, "Oh, that's like

Google. There was a lot of search engine

and then it was like, oh, this is

better. This is better." And to OpenAI's

credit and Sam's credit and the board's

credit, they've said, "Okay, the best

business strategy when you're starting

to wobble, quite frankly, is focus."

>> Moved fast. I would agree.

>> Focus. We Okay, folks. It it And by the

way, my

it doesn't end with Sora, folks, in

terms of [ __ ] that's about to be closed

down. And that's going to be my

prediction at the end of at the end of

the show. But you knew they were going

to have to focus. You knew this product

wasn't working. It was hemorrhaging

money. The whole visual space around AI

just hasn't panned out the way people

had hoped.

>> Slop. It's slop.

>> Yeah. It's just not It's so interesting.

The one

>> couple of things

>> just was what's one of the most

interesting things about Amazon is it

started in books and books has probably

been the least disrupted industry it's

gone into. The book publishing industry

although it's been consolidated is

actually still pretty strong. Big

advances.

>> Agents are still making money.

independent book sellers are actually

making a bit of a comeback. Anyways,

>> but what's so interesting I find about

if you'd said what's going to happen to

designers 24 months ago,

>> you would have said oh like customer

service and mediocre lawyers, they're

just going to get cleared out by Sora

and I forget Google's one. And what's

interesting is as a percentage of the

employee base, the number of designers

has actually gone up at tech companies

because it's the coding that is being

commoditized. But the front-end

humanfaced

UI design,

>> yeah,

>> really compelling is now the point of

differentiation. But because these

things, this AI, I've played with this

stuff. It's just not very good.

>> It's not good. You know, the only thing

I like is when they show they like do

all these like they have celebrities

like they did a Game of Thrones in high

school. Some of it's fun, but it's like

it's sort of like for a minute and then

you're like, "Okay, now I want to look

at something real." I think the human

eye can see it.

>> It exhausts you.

>> It is. The human eye is like not so I

don't think you'll get used to it

either. Everyone's like, "Oh, kids will

get used to it." I'm like,

>> it's ruined animal videos.

>> I don't think so. Yeah, animal videos.

>> Remember how amazing animal videos were?

animal videos were amazing because

>> now they have them do

>> when you saw a Norwal or a beluga whale

retrieving a Nerf football from

adventurers or scientists in the

Antarctic or wherever the [ __ ] that was.

You're like, "This is an incredible

moment." And now I see it and go, "Is it

[ __ ] AI?"

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> Because if it is AI, I don't care. I

don't It's not real. I don't

>> Yeah, I know. They make weird. I agree.

I agree. And that's It just It's not

satisfying in a way that real is. I have

to say. And I do think the human eye

could. It's just years ago when I was at

the MIT Media Lab when they were having

problems with robotics that talk to you,

you know, on a screen and it was always

the eyes. There's something wrong with

the eyes and humans perceive it.

>> Lips and the voice. I'm telling you

though, if AI starts producing

cute, cute pictures of babies seeing or

hearing for the first time, I'm out. I'm

logging off of every platform.

>> I would agree. Anyway,

>> it has to be real. Those things change

my day. Those things are

>> amazing prediction. Once again, you have

you have triumphed. Anyway, uh let's go

on a quick break. When we come back,

we'll talk about the return of the

Amazon iPhone.

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code pivot.

Scott, we're back with more news. Amazon

is reportedly getting back into the

phone business, working on a new device

internally known as, oh my good god, the

transformer. According to Reuters, what

a bunch of idiots they are. This would

potentially be an AIdriven phone that

syncs with Alexa and could eliminate the

need for traditional apps. Oh, sure, why

not? Details are slim. There's no clear

timeline or pricing. And sources say the

project could be scrapped, priorities or

finances change. That's a lot of may.

Um, but let's not forget Amazon's last

phone for I have not forgotten it since

I wrote about its creation and decline,

the Fire Phone, which launched in 2014

and quickly flopped leading to $170

million right down. And I remember

getting sented. I was like, it's like

the home, the Facebook home. I I kept

getting sent these things. I'm like,

what is this? And like I'm calling Steve

Jobs immediately because I need to talk

to someone who knows how to make these

things. Why would Amazon have a phone? I

want you to give me the argument why

it's a good idea despite their and I I

think people fail at things and they

come back, but I don't feel like Amazon

is my device place. I I think they got

they got knocked over in the um in in

the audible space. I think they got

knocked over in the uh the reader space.

I mean, it's still a business, but it's

not it's not on fire. It got knocked out

by the iPad in a lot of ways. Any

thoughts on the phone from Amazon and

why? Give me the argument. Well, the

argument could be that it becomes a new

piece of the flywheel around Amazon

Prime. And that is if you're an Amazon

Prime Plus member, you get a very

competent phone that perhaps has even

better bandwidth because Project Kyper

starts to pay off and they have

satellitebased connectivity. So what

this is is potentially I would imagine

in you know the conference rooms where

Amazon strategy group who are some

incredibly bright people are saying

>> yeah they need a thing

>> well what if why don't we go after

Android and that is we can offer people

>> oh okay

>> we can offer people an unbelievable

phone for free as part of their Amazon

Prime membership. Yeah.

>> And then say and get off of AT&T and

we'll we'll wrap it all into the

greatest loyalty program in history

which is Amazon Prime.

>> It is indeed.

>> So I think there's a really solid

argument. The problem is this all works

uh on a whiteboard and then people hold

these phones, the Facebook phone, the

Amazon Fire and they go, I don't like

it.

>> The Microsoft phones.

>> Yeah. All the all the handhelds. And by

the way, just a shout out, a colleague

of mine who teaches brand strategy at

another university called me and said

saying that Apple shouldn't go into a

lowerric computer is all wrong. And he

said he said my views on it were all

[ __ ] up and I just want to give him

his props. He said that look at all the

luxury car brands. They were all [ __ ]

posted for going into lower-end models

and it's expanded their share.

>> Yeah.

>> And I thought that was a really good

point. If they're going to give people a

really good version of

>> of it and then you have to buy the

shitty Dell version. Yeah. I

>> Well, all the Porsche purists said they

should never launch an SUV. They did. It

sells more than any other car in the

Porsche lineup. And also, Mercedes has

an Aclass in Europe. They have they have

the what is it not the E, the C-Class.

Anyway, well, they don't do it too much,

right? They you can't do it too much.

You have to do it just the three, the

two, the one. Anyways, I just want to

acknowledge the point cuz when when he

called me and told me this, I'm like,

"Okay, you're smart. Good Android. Now I

see. Thank you.

>> They they this could be the in my

opinion the biggest increase in

shareholder value that's

>> is a function of the friction between

silos of different companies. Y

>> the new co Disney should have something

called Disney Plus Plus and you get

Disney Plus videos, you get free

merchandise, you get the princess

experience and most importantly when you

come to the parks it's on only Disney

Plus members days where there are no

lines and it would be the ultimate

loyalty program

>> and Amazon

>> if they keep if they added telco and a

device into Amazon Prime

>> Yeah. I think theoretically it's worth,

you know, it's worth a couple billion

dollars to invest in.

>> They don't do that. They don't do that

often. You're right. They just like here

you go free. Here's it's like a it's

like a a club. And you would do that

with Amazon because they do deliver

really well. They're

>> talking about autonomous like

>> the core stuff they do they do really

well. So

>> preloaded free Amazon music, free Amazon

Zuks or whatever their their autonomous

is.

>> Those are cool. Zuks is cool. and just

say, "Okay, folks, we're going to take

care of you." Amazon is arguably the

most trusted brand in the world right

now.

>> Yeah, Kyper. They could offer that for

>> and they say, "All right, you don't need

you don't need to trust us when you're

in front of the TV screen or the

computer screen. You should trust us as

much when you're in front of the phone

screen."

>> The CEO, the the one person running at

the vision, I'm supposed to meet with

him. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll

be back for predictions. Okay, Scott,

let's hear a prediction. I'm going to

say very quickly uh just so you know at

the time of this taping SpaceX is aiming

to file its IPO within a week and I

predict I will not be asked on the board

as you noted at the beginning. I predict

>> I predict that

>> people literally don't if I was your

financial c your wealth adviser and I

kind of have been for the last few

years.

>> Yeah, you have.

>> But if I gotten a hold of you 10 or 15

years ago, I would have been like

>> tone down the anti anti- big tech thing

>> and we're going to make hundreds of

millions of dollars on boards.

>> I know. I know. I can't do What I just

said as a joke, Lar isn't a terrible

person. I can't help myself. That was a

joke.

>> You can't, you know, when you text me

mean things at 2 in the morning, it's

not a good idea. And you can't help

yourself. You literally can't mean some

of them are very

>> You can't help yourself. I get it.

>> I can't I can't I know I shouldn't drink

as much as I do.

>> Speaking of I was right about these

people. I was right. Anyway, your

prediction, please.

>> Okay. So,

what do we have here?

Open AAI is in a fivecar alarm right

now. In the last six months, they have

Oh, and by the way, this this Have you

seen the deals of this financing to top

off the round with I think it's TPG?

They are guaranteeing a 17.5% return.

>> What?

>> Yeah, they're guaranteeing the to top up

the round in private equity. The deal is

the deal is along the lines of the

following. It kind of makes industrial

sense, but it's a more of these circular

related party deals. They're saying to

these private equity firms, if you

invest and top up my round, I'll give

you se I'll guarantee you a 17.5%

return. Now the idea is it makes kind of

industrial logic because all of these

firms have massive

uh a massive portfolio company of of

firms which likely means they're going

to encourage these firms to adopt at an

enterprise level

>> open AI products. So open AI goes

immediately

>> we get

>> eat the dog food is what you're saying.

>> Yeah. We get industrial scale here and

because we're going public and Sam Sam's

bankers have probably said distinct of

the problems you're going to get X

valuation hundreds of billions or even

possibly trillion dollar plus valuation.

So he said to the private equity guys I

guarantee you a 17.5% return on your

money. The problem is a guarantee at the

top of the kind of the capital stack

means that the people underneath them

the investors might get squeezed out if

they have the first you know if if a

decent amount of returns has to go to

the top

>> but it is more of this kind of what I'll

call shell game and as long as things

keep increasing it's fine but this is

the kind of thing that could absolutely

>> oh yeah

>> brushed or trickle or if they don't make

people like you Scott that's not that's

like a let me pay you to be my friend

>> well this is

>> don't like it

>> it's really that's the most interesting

component of the deal is a you never

offer I have never seen it's a preferred

return that aggregates and there's

typically

>> would you invest that

>> um I would I would want for open AI I

feel that what I would want to do is the

following of just being purely

capitalist I'd want allocation in the

IPO because Sam is smart and Sam and his

bankers will say okay the first trade of

this is likely going to be 80 bucks so

let's price it at 50. So we can say

we're the best performing IPO of the

year.

>> Yeah, they'll do those tricks. That's

nothing new.

>> It's a once in a-lifetime

branding event, the IPO. So the

investment banks have an incentive

because they get to buy shares at a

discount. They get to give shares to

their buddies and institutions at a

discount. And the firm for a modest

dilution, 3 to 5% dilution, gets a

branding event that they're in the news

for the rest of the year as the best

performing IPO of the year or great

performing IPO of the year. So they

leave quite frankly SpaceX is going to

leave

>> they leave money on the table and it's

yet another transfer of wealth from the

lower middle class who don't have access

to preIPO or to the IPO.

>> Don't you think SpaceX will leave them

in the dust?

>> SpaceX in terms of an IPO.

>> Yeah, that'll get all that stuff.

That'll be that'll all be about

valuation cuz while SpaceX while SpaceX

has the biggest moes in the history of

business as far as I can tell

>> they're talking about a$1.5 trillion

valuation on 13 billion or 14 billion in

I mean that's a h 100red times revenue

so it's all about pricing but anyway so

this this where I was headed is the

following it is a fivecar alarm and Sam

and his board are smart they are

focusing first area of focus Sora We

barely knew you. You're gone. The next

area of focus, it won't be a headline

item. It'll be euthanized slowly.

Um, it is IO and that is the $6.5

billion acquisition of Johnny Ives

company to build hardware.

Uh, this is the metaverse on a smaller

level. This is Mark Zuckerberg's

consensual hallucination cost meta

shareholders uh 70 billion. This is

going to cost 6.5 billion to open AI. It

was an all stock transaction but there

is no way if I am on the board and I am

Sam Alman and I'm like okay play time's

order I am losing my core business to

Anthropic we need to focus that they're

not going to they're going to decide to

not play in the traffic of hardware. So,

>> okay. All right. If you look at it, big

deal. Okay. That's those are

>> there's been delays, technical

difficulty, unclear product definition,

high cost.

>> Uh, so

>> I think I'd buy the Amazon phone first.

So, that's a bad sign because I wouldn't

buy the Amazon.

>> Brutal cate brutal category. And then if

you look at what's going on here,

persistent technical problems. All

right.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Compute constraints, always on AI

reliability, privacy concerns,

interaction without screens.

Basically, this isn't right now IO or

the division of quote unquote open AI's

hardware products. It's not just about

execution risk. It's unsolved product

physics.

>> I love it.

>> And the timeline, the timeline keeps

slipping. I've been tracking this.

Originally expected,

>> let me give you a piece of advice that I

heard a long time ago. Hardware is hard.

>> Thank you.

>> Well, it was orig

It was originally expected around 2026

and now they're saying it's not shipping

before 2027. Guess what? It's never

going to ship.

>> Oh, all right. There's a prediction

right there. All right. We'll see what

happens. Anyway, great job on your

prediction. I like this new one. Um, and

by the way, next week, I just want

people to know, speaking of predictions,

Jeffrey Epste's lawyer and accountant

just told Congress they were never

interviewed as part of a formal federal

investigation. We're going to talk about

this next week because we're not going

to let Epstein out of the news either.

Trump is making all sorts of handwaving

to in order to pay it. But this to me

was a malpractice on the part of federal

uh federal investigators. any in you

know that they were not interviewed as

part of a form I mean you you might talk

to the lawyer and accountant seems to me

they might they might know a few things

in any case we'll see where that goes

we're going to talk about it next week

so I want to get that back

>> so can I just have one addendum the

cloud and the silver lining of these

democratic wins

>> what

>> we need a Nancy a speaker Pelosi like

figure who understands how to

>> um tell the children what okay the

grown-up is here this is what you need

to do.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh, as good as things are for Democrats

on a um on a Senate and and on a

congressional election level, we are

about to snatch defeat from the jaws of

victory. And while no one was looking,

we're about to elect a president of the

fourth largest economy who's going to be

a Republican.

>> Mhm.

>> Because of the jungle voting construct

in California,

>> we'll talk about that Monday. Let's

>> We are probably going to elect a

Republican unless Democrats get their

heads out of their asses. and dropping

out. I'll do a little I've been

contacted by every one of those

Democratic candidates and also Steve

Hilton who I know well. Um I haven't

heard from the sheriff.

>> Gavin Newsome and Chuck Schumer. You

need to start promising these Democrats

something and getting them out of the

race.

>> I literally out of the race.

>> They they also had to cancel a thing.

They're the whole thing is a [ __ ]

mess. And and it's suicidal. It's

suicidal. It's really weird. And uh

>> and by the way, Governor Nuome, who I am

a huge fan of, if you don't show some

backroom dealing here and make sure that

the next that your era parent isn't a

Democrat, it's really going to hurt your

chances of getting the nomination.

>> They got to knock some heads. Um anyway,

uh we want to hear from you. Send us

your questions about business tech or

whatever's on your mind. Go to

nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 8551 pivot. Before we go, I just

want to say my brother Jeff, who is a

friend of our pivot, had emergency

surgery this week, heart surgery. Um, he

had a blocked I don't know what I'm

going to say it wrong, but he had to put

have a stent put in and it was because

he he was on Kaiser or something like

that and he went on Medicare and the

internist said to him, "You should check

your calcium levels." Turned out he had

80 to 90% blockage. It's it's called the

widow maker, the the the the issue. Um,

and he got it all cleaned out and he's

doing great. But one of the things he

said for me to tell you is make sure you

all check things like that and get a

checkup. I just thank goodness that this

didn't happen because he would have died

of this very suddenly. So I wanted to

give him a shout out. In any case,

that's the show. But thanks for

listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and

subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll

be back next week.