The Republicans are committing unnatural

acts. They really are. It looks like a

weird sex position. The way they have

drawn these things and it's grotesque.

Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> So I I didn't hear from you yesterday on

Mother's Day, but that's okay. I know

I'm teasing. Please.

>> Yeah. I can't even imagine the royal

ascot wedding coronation jubilee that is

Mother's Day at your house.

>> Seriously, you got three mothers.

>> You got

mother

>> three mothers, an ax, a ceramic mug

business, and somebody definitely crying

in a Subaru. It's got to be

>> That's Lou.

>> It's got to be

There's a lot lot of

>> a lot of mothers. Yeah. No, I have to

say. And and also my mother, too.

>> Well, I'm glad you had a nice Happy

Mother's Day, Cara. What did you do for

your lovely wife?

>> Uh, not a lot. All I do is remind the

boys to call her.

>> Oh, wow.

>> That's what I do. I I I basically a lot

of angry texts of something along the

lines of, "Have you called the person

that gave you life?"

>> Oh, nice.

>> That kind of thing.

>> Anyway, we should get to the news. Um,

this is a really interesting story. I I

thought and I was paying attention was a

way. The FCC's lone Democratic

commissioner is accusing the Trump

administration of waging a quote

sustained coordinated campaign of

censorship and control against ABC. In a

letter to Disney CEO Josh Dearo, Anna

Gomez said the FCC under Brendan Brand

Carr has been weaponized to pressure a

free and independent press and all media

into submission. The letter comes after

ABC accused the FCC of attempting to

chill free speech, which it did in a

petition filed last week. That filing is

tied to the FCC's probe into whether the

view violated equal time rules when

tennis Texas Senate candidate James

Telerico went on the show earlier this

year. ABC argues the view got an FCC exe

exemption in 2002 as a a bonafiti news

interview program which it is and that

ruling remains in effect today. And you

know, as usual, Brenda has said so many

things publicly that are really damning

in terms of when it when they come to

court. You know, as being such a suckup

to the Trump administration and not an

independent person he's supposed to be.

He can have his opinions about things,

but he has made become more sensorious

than all the left he accuses them of and

is making all manner of business

threats. It's interesting that Disney

and ABC is pushing back rather hard

under this new CEO. something probably I

I suspect uh Iger wanted to do but felt

he couldn't at the time but uh any

thoughts on this?

>> Well, yeah, they they're learning that

>> you said this you sort of predict

there's going to be a lot of standing up

and

>> well they're learning that they have

figured out that sucking Ron Ronda

Santis and Donald Trump's [ __ ] has not

paid off for them. Remember the economic

warfare that DSantis was trying to levy

levy for political reasons and it it

doesn't pay it doesn't pay to appease

these guys.

>> They did push back on Dantis if you

recall. Remember they sort of played

games with him for a while.

>> Sort of.

>> Yeah, they did. They did.

>> Well,

>> with Trump they did not. That is

correct.

>> And now go to the legal veracity. This

isn't this isn't legal ambiguity. This

is a government harassment campaign with

an FCC seal on it. Um,

saying that saying that the equal time

probe or that the view violates equal

time that basically essentially means

Fox and Friends have been violating

equal time for 25 consecutive years.

This is just ridiculous.

>> Exactly. Exactly.

>> And then the lone Democrat uh on the FCC

is a woman named Anna Gomez who

essentially is yelling into a void while

the institution continues to be

>> weaponized against the press. It's not I

mean Commissioner Gomez basically can't

even descent. It's more like a hostage

note when she writes her letters of

disscent. So this is nothing but again

more weaponization of media or

weaponization of our government agencies

to try and squaltch free speech. It's

just insane

when they talk about I mean all this

[ __ ] that supposedly Democrats call

for violence and the language they use.

ridiculous and Brenda is just making it

worse by giving these stupid speeches

with his smug little, you know, [ __ ]

eatating grin that he always has on his

face. And again, Brenda, I'm following

you everywhere you go after you leave

office and I will make sure people

understand what you did constantly.

Constantly. Anyway, sorry. Go ahead.

>> This is and I hate to say this and it

goes into our next story. Do you want to

talk about gerrymandering?

>> Yeah, we will. Yeah, I can read. I mean,

for people don't know, obviously this

got big press. As redistricting wars

ramp up ahead of the midterms, Democrats

are facing some major setbacks. The

Virginia Supreme Court just struck down

a voter approved map that could have

netted the Democrats up to four House

seats. It's not over yet, and we'll see.

It's going to go to the Supreme Court.

Um, but the Supreme Court, of course,

did its business by weaking the Voter

Rights Act in recent ruling, setting off

redistricting pushes in several southern

states. Republicans could now have

around 15 new winnable districts, but

Trump's approval ratings are still a

massive hurdle. As one Democratic

strategist put it, Trump has the power

to rig the maps, but he doesn't have the

power to get his approval rating higher.

It could slap back at them. Um, it's

really interesting. One of the longshot

options reportedly tossed around in

Virginia, lower the mandatory retirement

age for the state supreme court and

replace the entire bench. Uh I think uh

there's a bunch of things they may have

to do, but what's a real shame is that

now the Democrats are going to have to

jerrymander their states, which is not

good for any this none of this is any

good to be breaking this precedent of 10

years following the census to do this

what is essentially stealing. Just when

you look at the map in Tennessee, it's

insane. Like there's like people are 210

miles away from from other voters, which

is crazy. It's a crazy It's a crazy map

and it's all done to retain power. Um,

which I think they won't actually doing

this. I think people are offended by

having their votes stolen from them.

>> Well, Democrats, and I agree with this,

wanted to fight fire with fire or

gerrymandering or gerrymandering. And

they lost both the map and you could

argue the moral high ground, although I

think it was the right move. Uh, and you

can't argue with the fact the other side

is destroying democracy.

Um, I mean, Tennessee is the template,

right? There's two Democratic Congress

people in 2020, Nashville and Memphis.

Republicans redistricted Nashville in

2022, and now it's Memphis. The playbook

is pretty straightforward here. They

find a Democratic district, and they

redraw the lines until it disappears.

Now, I I actually believe I don't

believe I mean a really interesting

message and the right message for a

candidate, specifically a presidential

candidate, and right now the only one

actually talking about [ __ ] issues is

Rahm Emanuel. They're all just cos

they're all just cosplaying Obama hoping

rhetorical flourish and talking about

breaking bread with Jews and Muslims and

we need to come together.

>> I say Newsome got the job done in

California. He like hit them hard and

won.

>> He fought back and he won. He fought the

law and he won. But uh we need

structural reform. One, a really decent

talking point, an issue for a president,

a presidential candidate would be the

following. Within 90 days, I'm I'm

putting up for a vote in the Congress

and the Senate to de J gerrymander the

entire United States. Six Republicans,

six Democrats. We're going to use

technology. It might be just as much as

putting a grid on top of the United

States map and saying, "Okay, it might

be AI, whatever it is, but we need to

dejerrymander the United States." And

then I think another structural form and

it goes to a larger issue.

A lot of the world's problems right now

can be reverse engineered to old men who

won't [ __ ] leave.

>> Won't [ __ ] leave.

>> It creates fascists who find reasons to

deny democracy. It creates uh public

investment that lacks investment in

young people and children. It creates a

demographic collapse because young

people don't get money because old

people keep voting themselves more and

more money. I see it in academia. Young

academics are leaving the field because

there's no [ __ ] room for them.

Because a guy who was the bomb in 1988

in gap one accounting won't [ __ ]

leave because we give them tenure about

the time they become totally

unproductive. There needs to be a

shedding a healthy shedding of skin. I

have self-imposed term limits on boards.

You need to move on. And one of those

structural reforms should be term limits

and age gating for the most important

people of the long term of the United

States. And that is our Supreme Court.

>> Absolutely. We need

>> or term term limits and age gating both.

Right. Correct.

>> I just said that.

>> Well, at both at the same time or one or

the other.

>> Yeah. For God's sakes, if you're 72,

your prefrontal your brain is shrinking.

Your brain starts shrinking at 45. By

the time you're 72, most people have a

very difficult time with cognitive

function. And I'm sure there's

exceptions that Ruth Bader Ginsburgg was

was very smart at 80. She should have

been forced to retire at 72, as should

the rest of them. You need young

thinking. You need people You need

people who occasionally have a [ __ ]

child in the house so they can re they

can relate to the issues facing facing

young people. I you you don't want to

pack the court because all that means is

when a Republican gets in, they're going

to expand the court from 12 to 30 people

under their watch. You need you need age

gating and you need term limits. But

more than anything, a great talking

point for a Democrat right now would be

I am going to dejerrymander

the US within 90 days. I'm going to put

a vote up and you can find out who is

not up for true democracy here.

>> Right. Absolutely. I mean, one of the

things it just that when you look at

these maps, you know, at some point,

obviously Jerry Men's been around

forever, but these are like they're un

like the Republicans are committing

unnatural acts. They really are. It

looks like a weird sex position the way

they have drawn these things. And it's

grotesque. It's grotesque. And they, you

know what it was? I have to say those

images from uh Tennessee with those fat

white old men laughing at young very

vibrant interesting

>> black legislators

you're nothing more

>> they really did look like the

confederate south

>> they look like the confederate south it

was a version and then laughing you all

by the way y'all are going to die of a

heart attack relatively soon because you

look like you could get out for a walk

or two but one of it just was the

visuals were so like these old racist

[ __ ] And I'm not sure that's And then

at the top of the heap is Trump who

looks like who's cognitively I keep

saying this Scott, we have to, you know,

we did it with Biden. I think we have to

zero in on his cognitive difficulties

that just continue. And today Dr. Oz and

uh the other one Britt Katy Britt were

like talking to him like he was a

toddler, like a toddler when he was

something or the Mr. Pres. It's like you

talk to someone in old folks home.

>> Age gating. No one should be allowed to

run for president. If when elected

they're going to be older than 70 or or

pick a number, have have neurologists

decide. You need a physically and

mentally ridiculously capable person.

But at some point,

>> nei neither Biden nor Trump should be

entrusted with overseeing the six fleet

or NAFTA agreements or trying to stay up

till 4 in the morning to get the votes

they need, whatever it is. Yeah,

>> this is a young person's job.

>> Agreed. You know, I when I said that to

you, I think you were surprised. You

were like when I said I'm leaving at 72.

I have 72 and that's it. That's it. I'm

gone. I'm off to Cambridge.

>> That's the number you fix. 72.

>> Yes. I bought myself a cap in in Norway.

I bought myself a cap. I love it. I'll

send you a picture. Um I Yes, that is

it. 72. And I'm gone. I'm gone. Like,

see you later. Maybe I'll sit and write

historical novels from my cottage in

Cambridge, but I'm gone. like gone.

Gone.

>> I'm pretty sure your third wife's gonna

be Susan Collins. I think you're gonna

be one of those tech people that goes

MAGA on us.

>> No, Susan Collins.

>> And I'm up to you, Mary. By the way, she

has a tremor.

>> If if a man and a woman

>> Mhm.

>> need a marriage license to get married.

What do two women need?

>> To get married?

>> A liquor license.

>> Oh, very funny. Very funny.

>> I don't think that's sexist. See, I

think it's profane and vulgar, but I

don't think it's sexist.

>> Isn't the issue I have any

>> No, it's not that funny.

>> It's not that funny. Anyway, these

redistricting I think the he cannot

fight the polls. The polls are so bad.

Everyone doesn't like him. That's one

thing I did the message I gave to

people. I was like, he is widely he has

his group that like him, but I got to

tell you, you got to watch the cracks in

MAGA and you got to watch the polling,

which is everyone is sick to [ __ ] with

this guy. And he is cognitively

disabled. I'm going to say that in every

single show until uh the 20 past the

2026.

>> That's that's the cold comfort.

>> Mhm. that we as progressives are serving

ourselves up this morning and that is

that Trump can't rig the he can rig rig

the maps but he can't rig his approval

rating

>> infuriate people although

>> that's the hope that basically

>> segregating voting again with taking

away neutering certain parts of the

voters voters rights acts this

ridiculous corrupt gerrymandering that

it'll come back to honibes and my fear

is the following

>> okay tell me because I have a fear

I I I believe that America is still

highly sexist, highly lookist, and opts

for a person who may be wrong more often

than not,

>> strong,

>> but is effective

>> versus people who are right and

ineffective.

>> And this this is the key distinction

between the Democrats and the

Republicans right now

>> is the Republicans are wrong and being

highly effective and Democrats are right

and virtuous and totally [ __ ]

ineffective.

>> I'm not so sure. this whole thing with

the ballrooms and the weird um the thing

with the weird uh title base and etc.

It's just it's getting

>> vote based on a ballroom.

>> No, I know they don't, but it's part of

the whole crazy old man thing. Um, one

thing that I will say I was with a bunch

of cyber experts and the two things they

did point out I think correctly is one

um the uh the Russians are preparing to

attack during the midterms you know in

Trump's favor as they as recent studies

have shown they did obviously against

both Clinton and attack

>> you know online like a lot of online

cyber not just cyber cyber and and

information fuckupery essentially and

then the second thing is I sat next to

one guy who's an American who was

talking about who obsess who's obsessed

with Steve Bannon and he feels they're

going to try to and he Trump has sort of

talked about it a little bit put go to

80 districts that matter and put martial

you know martial law in place or create

all manner of ICE and Proud Boys etc. If

you listen to Steve Bannon, he does talk

about this. And I think this a couple of

the cyber people were paying a lot of

attention to Steve Bannon and uh and

what he's doing. And you know that that

uh sack of that meat sack of rumpled

whatever is is very effective in many

ways. Speaking of effective, although I

can't believe he keeps hanging on

looking the way he does. Anyway, um

let's go on a quick break. When we come

back, a game-changing feature coming to

Apple's AirPods.

Support for Pivot comes from the Freedom

from Religion Foundation. Quick

reminder, America started a rebellion.

>> Uh yeah, we fired a king claiming divine

authority

>> and then wrote a constitution with no

mention of God,

>> which is a big deal.

>> The whole separation of church and state

thing, as you know,

>> and those lines are blurring. You see it

in things like America Praise event on

May 17th where the government starts

uniting with religion

>> which typically or historically doesn't

end well for freedom

>> and the Freedom from Religion Foundation

is working to protect that line.

>> So help us protect the first amendment.

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to learn more and join. Remember to text

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>> Scott, we're back with more news. This

is really interesting. Apple's

reportedly reached the late stages of

development for new AirPods that include

tiny cameras designed for AI features.

Who said they were going to put cameras?

You and I have talked about this. The

cameras would help Siri understand

what's around you, so you could ask

questions about objects, landmarks, or

directions in real time. The new AirPods

are expected to look similar to AirPod

uh Pro, but with slightly longer stems

to fit the camera hardware. Uh, this is

astonishing. I think Apple originally

wanted to launch the AI wearable sooner,

but delays in upgraded Siri pushed the

timeline back. Um, you will of course

lose 50 pairs of these, Scott. Um, this

is really 50 100,

>> by the way. This has none no pods in it

because I can't find them.

>> Gosh. Jesus. And there's I I can attest

in New York Scott's New York apartment,

there's so many AirPod cases everywhere

and they're like one AirPod in them.

Some are never been opened. It's really

It's a funny

>> I love those things. I absolutely

>> Yeah. So, talk about this because one of

there's there obviously privacy because

a lot of people have have been pushing

back on the Meta glasses which sell just

okay. They don't they're not like

they're they're popular but not that

popular. Um, so talk a little bit about

this because there is a privacy issue

here like people looking out. At the

same time, it's inevitable you're going

to have these heads up displays in some

way and this is a version of heads-up

display that isn't in your face which I

think is more effective that it's in

your ear of a camera in your ear. I love

your thoughts on this cuz you have big

thoughts on visual like heads up

displays. Well, uh, as much as I hated

mixed reality headsets and the Oculus, I

love this. And it goes back to a very

anthropological thing. What is harder

for people to adapt to when they lose

their vision or they lose their hearing?

>> Vision, I guess, but not

>> hearing. Okay. All right.

>> As a matter of fact, when your hearing

goes, you stop processing words and you

become more,

this is going to sound strange. Well,

it's not strange. People have a much

more difficult time maintaining societal

contact. relevance in relationships when

their hearing starts to go as opposed to

their vision starting to go. Your

hearing the last sense to go when you

die is hearing. You're supposed to when

people pass, you're supposed to keep

telling them that you love them.

Supposedly, that's the literally the

last sense to go. And I think it's the

most underrated um of the senses. We

have overinvested in visuals and

underinvested in hearing. AirPods, if

they were a distinct company, just

AirPods would be a Fortune50 company.

And what is this? What is Apple doing

here? They're turning your ears into

eyes and sending the footage. You know,

unfortunately, they might be sending the

footage to Certino. But the the AI

wearable race is now happening. What's

interesting though is it's not happening

where people thought it was going to

happen. It's happening in their ear

canal. So Meta has Ray-B bands. Apple

has AirPods.

Uh Google probably has some glassing. I

don't know what they're calling it this

week. Yeah, they they originally had uh

contact lenses. They remember they long

time we broke a story about them working

on contact lenses with um visuals in

them. But go ahead.

>> The the problem here or the I think it's

a great idea and I'll buy one. The

problem is the hardware for at Apple the

hardware is always ready before the

software and they wanted to launch this

sooner but Siri has is probably one of

the worst tech products of the last 10

years.

>> It is. It really is. And Apple, I mean,

think about it. Apple has the world's

best supply chain and the world's most

embarrassing AI assistant.

>> It is so bad. I hate Siri.

>> I mean, essentially, AirPods, as they

envision it right now with this with

cameras, is essentially because of a

very weak uh AI assistant overlay. It's

like a Lamborghini chassis waiting for

an engine that works. So, the hardware

will be the best looking hardware, the

best operating hardware. The problem

will be the AI overlay. And I told you

what I believe.

>> They have to get it right. They have

>> I think they're going to [ __ ] can Siri

and license it to someone else for tens

of billions of dollars,

>> right? Yeah. Why not just make it good?

Like I I am constantly Siri, call Scott

or Siri, you know, text Scott or

something like and it never works. It

sometimes works and it just it should

work every single

>> What if it was Gemini? What would what

would Gemini needs to catch up? What

would Gemini pay Tim Cook or the new guy

>> to design something?

>> We're your default AI.

>> Look, Siri, just talk to me even though

I didn't want to. Go away, Siri.

>> Sorry. Go ahead.

>> I think they're in the pole position

here. I think the most elegant move to

massively

uh throw 1020 billion dollars a year to

the bottom line would be to have a bake

off and say one of you is going to be

the Intel inside of Apple and that is

your

>> kind of a big thing to give up though.

But they're not good at it. Just like

with maps, they're just not good at it.

>> Well, search, they give it up in search

and it worked out well for them.

>> Search. Yeah, exactly.

>> I think this is a move.

>> Let me ask you a physical question.

Okay. So, when AirPods, people do not

remember this. When AirPods first came

out, people made fun of the look of it.

You remember every you look like an

alien. You look like you're wearing

earrings for men. And then everyone just

loves them, right? And they fall out of

your ear. There was all manner. Now, if

they're even longer with these like

stems, it could it could look odd. But

it seems to me the best solution is the

in the- ear airpod looking like things.

Not over the ear, not around the neck,

over the head, except, you know, I'm on

an airplane. I wear, you know, a pair of

um really good um noise cancelling

headphones, but that's different. Um so,

you think that's okay. The and the

privacy issues. You don't have an issue

with the people. It can see everybody

and it's recording presumably.

>> Well, that's that is a big issue. I

haven't thought that through, right?

Because you're not supposed to be taking

pictures of people's kids.

>> The surveillance,

>> government, you go into the White House,

>> uploading your data, your whereabouts,

>> but no one no one creates tech hardware

that is a better signaling device than

Apple. And pulling out your iPhone, I've

always said

>> pulling out your iPhone is like pulling

out an MX black card, but for a billion

people, not 10 million. It says that you

get it. It says you're one of the seven

most wealthiest people on the planet. It

says you're probably in the creative

arts industry. You know, it just it's it

is incredible signaling. I wear my

AirPods. If I'm at a conference and I

just need to get somewhere without

getting without speaking to people or

I'm just feeling exhausted by people, I

just put my AirPods on uh in and I act

like I'm talking to somebody like I'm

speaking to myself.

>> I know that trick. But let me just say

one of the things I'd like to not look

at my iPhone anymore. I'd like like I

use my watch quite a bit but it's not

good enough and I use my if my AirPods

were better, I would not pull my phone

out at all.

>> 100%.

>> You know, that's the thing. So, I think

this is really interesting. Another

interesting piece of tech, and we're

very techheavy today. SpaceX chipmaking

project in Texas will have an initial

price tag of at least $55 billion and

could eventually grow to 119 billion

according to a public hearing notice.

The project called Terapab will create

chips to power AI for SpaceX and Tesla.

I think this is a smart move by Elon.

SpaceX is asking for tax breaks for the

project, of course, which will be

discussed at a hearing next month, and

te Texas will definitely give it to them

because that's what Texas does. They

bend over. Speaking of bending over, um

SpaceX is of course preparing to go

public with one of the largest IPO

offerings in June. Um to me, more than

the robotics focus, this is really an

important I mean the way they do energy

is sort of rapacious to the people

living in the areas they're living in

and it's there's getting a lot of push

back. But the idea of your own chips,

all these companies really have to be in

that game. It seems like and it's an

important it's Elon really does know

this. I don't think he's as highly

technical as he makes himself out to be,

but he does understand this is the heart

of it. Your thoughts?

>> I agree. This is a really smart move and

it's one of the most interesting and

it's also quite frankly it's

fundraising. It's going to be a big

slide in his road show for SpaceX IPO.

they, you know, they're talking about a

60 to120 billion dollar chip fabrication

plant, Terraab, and it would be bigger

than the, the biggest one in the US

right now is a $65 billion plant from

TSMC.

So, the world's most advanced chip maker

with 50 years of experience, Elon, is

trying to out TSMC, TSMC.

So, I it it creates He's very good. He

and Trump are both obsessed with being

in your [ __ ] face every day and

they're very good at it. And so this is

it may I'm not I think it's going to

happen. The guy is a big thinker.

>> Exactly. Like X AI went nowhere.

>> It may or may not he may not be very

good at this. It doesn't matter. It is a

great This guy is a big thinker. He's

bold. He's pul pulled off some big bold.

>> Let me say he did he did surrender XAI

by doing the anthropic deal. It just

everybody's left.

>> He's not going to win here. He could win

in this. And I I I think he probably

might this is a better focus for him.

Speaking of focuses for French

prosecutors are summoning Elon and X's

former CEO, Linda Yakarino. Oh,

Yakarino, where did you go to? She's

doing some health company to face

preliminary criminal charges into X. The

investigation includes charges of child

pornography and sexualized deep fake. It

was interesting when I was in Europe,

they were like, "Oh, it's not he's not

going to it's not going to go anywhere."

I don't really care. I'm glad a

government is doing it, right? Cuz ours

certainly wouldn't. And they should they

should face an investigation of what was

happening there at X doing all this. Who

made the decisions about these child

pornography and sexualized deep fake

creations? I'd like to know and I'm glad

a government is pursuing it. I don't

even care if they win. I'm glad they're

doing it. That's my feeling.

>> There you go. Um

>> yeah, I don't More power to them. At

some point big tech executives, their

flight pattern is going to look like

Jerry Mandered because they're not going

to be able to go to the airspace.

We forgive these these founders,

especially during the Trump

administration for the economic pass is

the word I would use.

>> Yeah, but we are we are net gainers from

big tech. We just are in the US. That's

not to say

>> should pay the price for stuff like

this.

>> I agree.

>> Yeah.

>> That's not to say we shouldn't hold them

accountable. It's not to say they

shouldn't be subject to the same rules

and regulation as other industries, but

if you had a red button to push and do

away with all big tech, you wouldn't

want to do it. And for all the problems

and externalities, there isn't a single

nation in the world was presented with

the opportunity when say put your

headquarters here. The problem is, you

know, the big tech, I don't think Italy

is a is a net gainer from big tech. The

US is, but I'm not sure other nations

are.

>> Yeah, they are.

>> And so, a lot of these nations are doing

the math and saying, "You've gutted our

media companies. You don't pay that many

taxes here. You haven't really increased

employment a lot. You're just creating

tremendous disruption

>> and sexualized deep fakes.

>> Yeah. And also you now appear to be an

existential threat to our our kids

emotional and physical well-being.

We're not down with, you know, the

idolatry of innovators for a lot of good

reasons and some bad is has totally kind

of infected or overwhelmed the US. The

worm has turned a little bit. AI is way

down. people are realizing what a what a

what a negative impact this has had on

our children and then going much bigger.

It's manifesting itself in terms of

being ground zero for frustrations

around income inequality. But these

other nations just aren't that impressed

by these guys. They're like, "Okay, you

broke a law. We're going to charge you."

>> Yeah. I I like the activity. And I think

as you said a long time ago, early in

our relationship, someone has to do a

per walk on on what whether it's chat

bots and kids dying or something like

that. someone has to go to jail. They

won't, but I like I like the effort by

these governments and I don't think it's

um I think someone needs to investigate

how they made these decisions about

sexualized deep fakes and child

pornography on that on whatever service

that doesn't and what they did to stop

it or not stop it. I think it's

important for public.

>> There was there was a guy I think it was

a Mackenzie partner on the board of

Goldman and he took insider information

and traded on it.

>> He went to jail.

>> Jail. Think about what's happening in

the Trump administration around oil

prices.

>> Think about what's happening in tech in

terms of teen self- cutting

>> and depression among teen and being

weaponized. You said you expect the

Russians to cyber attack us. They've

been cyber attacking us.

>> Yes, I know.

>> They use these poorest platforms that

are totally focused on shareholder

value. They create lists of people who

are pro- Ukraine or or people who are

polarizing and they infect their

comments and people's perception of them

perception of them. They diminish their

credibility and they create fights

everywhere to try and atomize us. We've

been we're attacked every day and the

ultimate Trojan horse is big tech who

charges them a small fee to go sit

inside the Trojan horse and start

attacking America from within.

Yep, that's correct. And and by the way,

they'll shift in a dime. I don't know if

you noticed, suddenly David Saxs is like

Anthropic's going to be really

successful after needlessly all of a

sudden he likes Anthropic.

>> Oh god, he's such a Let me just tell

you, we were right about that one. Like

immediately when it's back when they're

back, he turn because he's losing the

fight over unfettered AI and they're

just better. That's all. Anyway, um he

was lying the first time about when they

attacked him and for a government

official to do that to an American

company without any proof is really

grotesque. I I don't mind it if there's

proof, but in that case, it was because

he wanted to feather his own nest.

Anyway, let's go on a quick break and we

come back, we'll check in on the Trump

phones. Speaking of, dare I say it,

fraud.

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Scott, we're back. It's been almost a

year since the Trump phone was

announced, and there is still no sign

the device is anywhere close to

shipping, but that hasn't stopped Trump

mobile website from continuing to accept

$100 deposit for the phone. The fine

print notes, a pre-order deposit

provides only a conditional opportunity

if the Trump mobile later elects to

offer the device for sale. And while the

phone was initially touted as being in

made in America, the site now describes

as being shaped by American innovation.

Looks like these aren't coming. I know

people have lost their money, which we

said would happen. This is exactly um

you know, I'm not sure where the phone

ranks among various Trump griffs. Um

another Trump venture where things

weren't looking so great. The Trump

media just posted a net uh drop of 46

net loss of $46 million and I think they

made under a million dollars in revenue

driven largely by unrealized losses in

crypto holdings. And while they're doing

all this grift, the Pentagon has

released a batch of quote

neverbeforeseen UFO files on a dedicated

government website. The files include

details from over 400 reports from the

40s in recent years, including several

Apollo missions. President touted the

administration transparency and true

social post saying now the people can

decide for themselves what the hell is

going on. We cannot decide. They're just

more lights. Hey, I can get more out of

just like a book I buy at the airport

about these things. Um, so it's just a

lot of, you know, handwaving all over

the place and grift. I mean, the Trump

phone, which Scott and I both said was

never going to happen, is not going to

happen, people. And that's 60 million

bucks or something like that. I think

that's how much they collected. It's

it's grift. First off, this wasn't this

wasn't a down to payment on a product.

It was a donation. I don't think

anyone's going to care. I I think the

likelihood that he was ever going to

have a competent phone was probably

didn't escape these folks as as it

relates to me aliens.

>> I'm convinced,

>> yeah,

>> that aliens have been monitoring us,

including all of our media. And if we're

really honest, about twothirds of our

media is porn. So,

>> I think this explains that the aliens

aren't using anal probes for

information. They're just trying to

speak our language.

Can I ask you a question? Do you believe

in aliens? I'm just curious. When you

think about UFOs and you see these

pictures and the Let me tell you,

everybody, I looked at some of these

pictures. They look like the pictures

you always see. Bright lights, things

moving across the sky, unexplainable

phenomena, often often lights, you know,

or lights moving in a pattern or

something like that, which could be

explained lots of different ways. Uh, do

you actually believe in aliens, sir?

Oh, this is gonna sound this is going to

sound like I'm on edibles, but I'm not.

But I believe in everything. What do I

mean by that?

>> If you believe there's some logic here,

I think

>> like Loch Ness's monster.

>> Most astrophysicists believe

I it appears the infinite space theory

that that space never ends. All right.

So, space never ends and it's

regenerating and the spice space-time

continuum curves and space never ends.

That means everything exists. That means

everything that's happened has happened

before. Because if if space never ends,

that means the infinite possibilities of

everything exist and everything that you

can imagine is out there.

>> Oh my god, I need an edible at this

point. Okay,

>> that means we exist all the time

forever, you and I. No, it means that if

there's if there's an infinite number of

universes, at some point there's a

universe very similar ours with similar

lifespans, similar earth and gas and

organisms and similar similar carers and

Scots. And if you don't believe if it's

not exactly like it, just keep going

through infinity and eventually you'll

get to it. So,

>> oh wow. the fact that

>> this is like the plot of Interstellar or

something like that.

>> Well, if if space is infinite, and I'd

like to hear an argument for how it

couldn't be, then of course there's a

galaxy and another alien intelligence

that can send probes here. Having said

that,

>> I don't think they'd be that interested

with us. So, I don't

>> Do I believe they exist? Yes. Do I

believe the ones we have seen are actual

alien intelligence or life? I don't

think so.

>> Maybe they're flashes from another

universe. Maybe that's what we're

seeing. lights that maybe they, you

know, like in all the sci-fi they or or

the Marvel movies, all the different

universes suddenly get the sky gets

ripped open and one of the universes

comes in to this one. You have to close

the It's always having to close a

[ __ ] portal in those movies, which I

never understand. Um, but I vaguely do.

>> I think we should ask aliens to hunt

down all the people on Jeffrey Epstein's

island. I think we could call it Alien

versus Predators. They Oh,

um I would like the aliens to arrive

just about now. That's what I would like

them to do.

>> You ready for it?

>> I would like them to come now. It's

time. It's time. It's time. Either Jesus

or them. I don't care. Jesus needs to

come back or they do. I don't either.

I'm good with anybody showing up and

like getting our That's the distraction

we need. And And uh I

>> But that's what this says, Cara. This is

meant to be a distra distraction.

>> Of course. Absolutely. Anyway, uh, well,

we wish you would come, aliens.

>> All I got to say is if females invade

the earth and kidnap men with large

[ __ ] uh, you're in no danger. And I'm

just I'm just writing this to say

goodbye.

>> Oh, can I have your stuff?

>> I'd like your stuff.

>> Can I have your stuff?

>> Can I have your stuff?

>> You have my stuff. I show to my house in

New York and I'll be like down two

Kashmir sweaters. I know you've been

stealing my stuff.

>> True. I have your stuff. They're in

Brooklyn right now. Anyway, you can stay

in Brooklyn anytime. You'll never come

to Brooklyn, which is fantastic.

>> I've been there twice, both times to go

to the new Soho House over there. That's

it.

>> Alex and I will be in Brooklyn.

>> If you're not If you're not in If you're

not on the island called Manhattan,

there is no reason to ever visit. And I

will be in Manhattan on

>> the Northeast is so overrated except for

a 7 by two mile island. That's it.

>> Let me just say he's going to be in

Brooklyn with me and he's going to eat,

you know, tonight. By the way, let me

just say it's Amanda's birthday today.

Um, and happy birthday, Amanda. We're

going out for uh oysters tonight in in

DC and I literally going to have to take

out a small loan cuz Alex is coming.

Like please. Last time we took him for

sushi. It was like $400. Anyway, uh one

more quick break and we get back uh wins

and fails. Support for this show comes

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Okay, Scott wins and fails. I feel like

I shall go first. Speaking of conspiracy

theories, this is one that I find very

troubling. And look, listen, I even kind

of believe it. One in four Americans

think the April shooting at the White

House Correspondent Center was staged

according to a new survey. Roughly one

in three Democrat respondents said they

believe the event was staged compared to

one in eight Republicans. The same thing

with the other that a lot of like

Marjorie Taylor Green, all these people

think the the shooting in Butler was

staged. I just feel the falling off of

assuming con and this is this does go

back to Kennedy assassination and before

there's always been a conspiracy

theory-minded public popul populace we

have but it's just a little it's

slightly depressing because like

remember when you said I thought Jeffrey

Epstein didn't kill himself just like

nobody believes anything and I find it

really depressing that our shared like I

get conspiracy theories and I see why

you might think this and I hate myself

for even saying oh maybe it was right

without any proof. And I find that

feeling in me really gross. I have to

say the conspiracy theory minded. But

you become more that way as you live in

this world where AI and social media and

everything else just sort of spins your

spins your brain in a way that's really

gross. Um, and speaking of clarity, I

have to say one thing is first of all,

Matt Damon on Saturday Night Live was

superb and he looks like he's great in

the Odyssey. He was super. That was a

superb show. SNL is really bringing is a

really solid actor.

>> Talking about clarity, Chelsea Handler

at the Kevin Hart rose. Uh,

>> you love that. I thought of you when I

saw that.

>> [ __ ] super. So was Tom Brady, by the

way. But let me say Chelsea Handler

handed it back to the MAGA sort of

adjacent comedian Bros. Let's listen to

her call out the comedians who went to

the Saudi comedy festival. Now that your

favorite leader is making the draft

mandatory, I assume that all of you will

be signing up to go fight in Iran. Or do

you tough talking [ __ ] only go to the

Middle East for comedy festivals?

Oh, was so she had so many lines. That

was a nicer one. And then she had some

choice words for Tony Hinchcliffe. She

said, "Tony Tony is what happens when

women don't have safe access to abortion

care," which I thought was funny. And

then also like who's who's uh who's

who's warming Joe Rogan's balls in their

mouth now that you're here tonight. He

looked sick the way she attacked him.

And it was so good. She did such a good

job. I have to say Chelsea, I love you.

Marry me. I got to say so good. She was

fant and they just he was so

uncomfortable. Like they can't take a

joke. These people they can dish it out

but they can't take it. And Chelsea put

them down. Put them down. And I love

love to see it. Anyway, your thoughts? I

agree with you on that. Um, so my wins

and fails. My win is Mayor Mani's Pieta

terror attacks. Um, I'm not even going

to get into whether

the city of New York should be cutting

costs or spends too much money. I don't

have enough domain expertise. I'm a

resident of Florida, but

the percentage of federal employees uh,

as a percentage of the population has

steadily gone down. I've never bought

that. There's just waste, fraud, and

abuse everywhere. And if we're going to

get our fiscal house in order, do we

need to cut spending and raise taxes?

The answer is yes. So, I'm just going to

talk about the raising taxes side of it.

If you're going to raise taxes, it feels

to me that there's a very legitimate

argument that the people who have done

the best over the last 30 or 40 years

are the very wealthy and specifically

owners. And it's pretty basic.

Productivity has gone up 45 degrees.

Wages have gone flat. The delta between

those two lines is trillions of dollars

in um value creation and almost all of

it has gone to the top one if not the

top 0.1%. So it seems to me that just

basic math is it makes sense for the

wealthiest among us to uh pay a

disproportionate amount of incremental

taxes needed to operate this great

experiment called the US to pay for our

navy to pay for food stamps. And the

problem is, okay, so what do you do in

New York if you need to raise revenues?

Do you increase corporate taxes? The

problem with that is, and Jamie Diamond

pointed this out, JP Morgan has gone

from 30,000 to 20,000 employees in New

York in the last 10 years because it's a

very expensive place to do business.

>> Yes, it is. No question.

>> Meanwhile, in Texas, it's gone from

10,000 employees to 30,000. So, at some

point,

>> you get diminishing returns. And a lot

of the people that work at corporations

are middle- class people who who who

commute in from the different different

burrows. So you got to be very careful

about raising costs on business because

New York is getting to the point where a

lot of businesses are contemplating

uh

>> leaving.

>> Yeah. Leaving or at least trans or at

least doing the bulk of their hiring

somewhere else. Then you think, well, we

could just go after all rich people. The

problem is there are a lot of people in

New York making a half a million, 600,

800 grand a year as a couple and they

can't. I was that couple and I had to

leave because it's just so goddamn

expensive there and you're already

paying 13 or 14% incremental taxes. So I

like the idea and I let's bring this

back to me in 2017 when I sold my

company I made the mistake of giving NYU

I think 2% of the company. The dean

called me and said, "Can you come up

here?" And when the dean calls you and

says, "Come up here." It's either very

good or very bad news. And he said, "We

just got a check for X." And he said,

"First off, thank you." And he said, "If

my math is correct, that means you sold

your company for why." And I said,

"Yes." And he's like, "I need you to

move out of faculty housing right away."

>> That's right. You lost that house.

>> And he said,

>> "You like that house, didn't you?"

>> I loved it there. No one, it was all a

bunch of 110-year-old widows from some

tenure history professor that died 40

years ago. No one makes eye contact. No

one talks to each other. I loved it.

Washington Square Village. It was

amazing. No one even looks at you in the

eye. Occasionally there'd be a little

mimograph paper saying, "Yeah, join us

in the third floor to celebrate Lois

Frankle's life." You know, occasionally

there was a notice about someone who

died. That's it. I absolutely love it.

Anyways, he said, he was really funny,

too. Peter Henry, one of my role models

and the best boss I've ever had. He

said, "You're in strategy." He's like,

"Answ me this. What do you think the

objective is of faculty housing?" And

I'm like to provide housing for young

faculty who who could otherwise not live

here. And he's like bingo. I need you to

move out next week, not the week after.

Anyways,

>> I bought a place which Caris Swisser is

very fond of. It's been my one of my

second homes.

>> Yeah.

>> And I spend about I don't know about 60

days a year there. Maybe 90. I don't

know.

>> And here's the bottom line. This tax I

figured out. I did the math. If it goes

through un unfettered or

>> I'm the one that told you about this, by

the way, but go ahead.

>> You told me about it, so I began looking

into it.

>> Yeah,

>> it's unlikely to it'll be watered down.

But if it goes through, as mom Donnie

has proposed it, it would be an

incremental $100,000 a year tax on me.

Personally, I'm not fond of that. It's a

form of a wealth tax because all that

really does is take a say a condo worth

10 million and make it worth eight and a

half or 9 million because it's an extra

$100,000 a year. But here's the bottom

line and the reason why I think it's a

win. One, our municipalities need to get

their fiscal house in order. Two, it's

clear that if there's going to be

incremental taxes, it should be on the

wealthiest among us. And three, a sec a

tax on second homes, which is also being

proposed, by the way, in San Francisco

and Montana, is a very elegant way of

going after those of us who quite

frankly have the money.

>> Right. It's under It's over $10 million.

the houses. Correct.

>> Over five. In addition, it also kind of

you get a twofur here. And that is if

people decide to sell, it does free up

housing stock. So, nobody likes a tax. I

get it. And the wealthy are going to

come out of their skin. I get it. The

bottom line is

>> [ __ ] Griffin needs to shut the hell

up. He looks like a

>> Hold on. I'm not done with my wins and

my tails.

>> All right. Okay.

>> I get it. I actually think as far as

taxes goes, which nobody likes. See

above the meaning of the word tax. I

think this is an elegant, thoughtful,

less bad tax.

>> My little lesbian communist from San

Francisco finally. Go ahead. Sorry.

>> And and as long as I can roll out of my

apartment and I have the money, which I

do, and go to Jack's wife, Freda and sit

there and order a latte and watch the

freak show of commerce, sex, capitalism,

art, fashion, walk by me, it is worth

100 grand a year to me. And it's still

worth that to a [ __ ] ton of people.

Because if you have a second home in

Manhattan, my brothers and sisters, you

are doing just fine.

>> Yeah.

>> So the piet tax and the second home tax

being proposed across municipalities

that need to raise revenue. It is an

elegant,

>> great idea,

>> thoughtful tax.

>> This is what you're not going to like.

My fail is Mayor Mom Donnie and his

class warfare against the rich and

doxing Ken Griffin. That was totally

totally out of line. I would agree with

you.

>> Totally out of line. And here's the

problem with Democrats. We want to

redistribute virtue, not income. Propose

a tax on the wealthiest. I get it. Get

on with it. Stop complaining about

billionaires. Do your [ __ ] job and

raise taxes on the wealthy. But instead,

do not go to their homes and dox them.

>> And this is what's going to happen. This

is what's going to happen. And Ken

Griffin, who was had a $6.5 billion

project underway in Manhattan,

supposedly has given a quarter of a

billion dollars to New York-based

charities. You know what he's going to

say? [ __ ] you. And he's going to he's

absolutely going to take capital he was

investing in Manhattan and move it to

Florida and Texas. And here is the

problem with Democrats. We'd much rather

signal virtue than do our [ __ ] jobs.

And that is it is one thing to be right,

but it doesn't matter if you're

ineffective.

and and the Democrats are going to lose

if they continue to to try and with this

undercurrent of young men are the

problem, don't have problems. Most white

people are racist and all billionaires

are evil. Well, guess what? You're going

to lose the young male, the wealthy, and

quite frankly the white vote. If you

keep this class warfare demonization of

success up, one of the most wonderful

things about America and the reason why

we have consistently attracted the best

and brightest around the world is we

celebrate success. Now, do we need to

redistribute income to the middle class?

Abso fuckingutely. But notice how they

never talk about Oprah or Beyonce. This

is identity politics at its worst. It's

demonizing success and you are going to

end up with lower Treasury receipts. But

great, you're going to

>> ask what is the thing? Because it it I

think the the most effective messaging

around this area and I often would be

saying are billionaires off. I'm like

not all of them. No, of course not. Like

you know I think the most effective way

is to say everyone needs to pay their

fair share. That I think is a very

effective things and you're saying the

same thing. And remember I think Gore

tried to sort of demonize rich people of

course which is ironic since he is one.

Um, but one of the things uh that I

think is effective is everybody should

pay their fair share. Like everybody

shouldn't get breaks. Everyone shouldn't

get to meet with the president if I

don't, right? Everyone shouldn't be in a

meeting where they get stuff. I think

the they the get well they're getting

good stuff of them standing there and

pulling in like Scrooge McDuck all the

money is a very good message. Like why

do they get to first why do they get the

best bits and you don't? I think that is

not demonizing them. It's saying fair

share. This is how much they pay. This

is how much you pay. This is how much

corporate tax has gone down. This is how

much your taxes have gone up. I think

that is fully a great way to do it. And

I agree that I didn't love the the the

thing of the Ken using Ken Griffin. I

think you could have done much wider is

all these people have second homes and

they should pay a tax on it and that's

that. And that and they're very rich and

they can not just they can afford it.

They don't have they don't have to pay

taxes and win with math is the way you

kind of do it with people in a in a

smart way. That's my feeling. What about

you from a marketing perspective? What

do you think?

>> If teachers unions were much more

powerful and they had figured out a way

to weaponize government and we're

getting paid $500,000 a year on average,

plus benefits plus retirement, they

would not be saying enough. We don't

need anymore. People will always respond

to incentives in a capitalist society to

get more and more. Until we get rid of

Citizens United, the wealthiest among us

will weaponize government and always

incrementally seed the transfer of power

of our economy from laborers and

consumers to investors. The entire

shooting match around income inequality

is the following. The point of America

is to to make the jump to light speeded

by evolving from an earner to an owner

because once you're an owner, your

wealth compounds tax deferred. And

owners are more so powerful and have

such powerful lobbies because of Citizen

United. They keep coming up with new tax

rates. I can buy a jet today and write

the whole [ __ ] thing off in year one

being cash flow positive. If I own a

home and I put it in an LLC, I'm an

owner. I can sell it. Don't have to have

a capital gain. I can roll into another

investment property, put it in a trust,

$30 million exemption, and start

building a dynasty until we have an

elected elected populace, elected

representatives who stop transferring

capital, influence, well-being, health

per your series from from labor and from

consumers to shareholders. None of this

is going to change. And the key to all

of this, none of this happens unless you

do away with Citizens United. And for

Bernie Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth

Warren who keep complaining about the

wealthy. Well then do your [ __ ] job

when you controlled all three houses of

government. Taxes went down on the rich

during the Biden administration.

>> So everyone com it's like the the guy

complaining that the the game was rigged

is wearing a referee's uniform.

>> Yeah.

>> You need structural reform. But

demonizing billionaires everybody does

the same thing. Everyone responds to

incentives and feathers their bed the

most. I do think on the other hand the

look of the Bezos's at that Met Gala

wasn't good. Totally different issue. I

think they do it to themselves. They do

it to themselves. So let them do it to

themselves. Venice, everyone knows how

that feels. Um I have to say I agree

with you. You're right. I think it was a

rare misstep by Mamani who's a little

more deaf as the way he handled Trump.

>> Very savvy politician.

>> I thought that was a little clottish of

him. I think you're right. I think

you're right. Anyway, um those are good

ones. Uh we want to hear from although

Ken Griffin's still been a whiny [ __ ]

about it anyway. Um, he's always a whiny

[ __ ] Um, we want to hear from you.

Smart guy. I understand, but really

smart guy.

>> He needs to All of them need to stop

talking. Every one of them. Anyway, we

want to hear from you. Send us your

questions about business, tech, or

whatever is on your mind. Go to

nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 8551

Pivot. Uh, and we have a specific

question for you listeners today. Who do

we want who do you want to see co-host

with me in August when Scott goes away

on a vacation? We have we already have a

really good list actually and they're

really including Chelsea Handler is

coming. Uh so that I'm very pleased

about that. We want to hear your ideas

and maybe we can get them for you. So

we'll pick at least one from the people

the suggestions of the people and don't

be kooky. Don't be like you know the

pope. I can't get the pope. Although I'm

working on getting an interview with him

but I mean I mean I could try to get the

pope but it's not going to work. Uh so

email us, call us or tell us on the

socials. We want to hear uh your

suggestions. I would prefer an alien if

that's possible. If anyone's listening

from up there or tapping into this show

um elsewhere in the Cara and Scott

universe this week, uh on with Cara Sw

on on with Cara Swisser, I'm talking

with author and journalist Patrick Raden

Keefe. He's one of my favorite

journalists. He writes amazing books. Uh

obviously wrote about um uh the opiate

crisis. He's written about the crisis in

Northern Ireland. He's just amazing

journalist. Uh his new book is called

London Falling. It's about a mysterious

circumstances surround the death of a

19-year-old who was pretending to be the

son of a Russian oligarch. I asked Raden

Keefe why he's drawn to these true crime

stories. Let's listen to a clip.

>> I don't really even think of myself as a

crime reporter, but it is a situation

where when I go out and I

kind of pursue what's interesting to me

in the world, it's often stories about

people transgressing

in one way or another. It's often

stories about people kind of using their

own charisma

to change the world a little bit to find

some little wormhole, some loophole they

can get through or actually to kind of

reorganize the world in a way that they

would want. And it's funny cuz we talk

about those stories as if they're

outliers, but I feel as though that is

the era we live in.

>> It's a great interview. He's so smart.

Elsie, he's very handsome. He's got he

was in he was in too. Yeah,

>> that will be handsome. hands down will

be on Netflix within 24 months.

>> Oh, I think he's already sold it. I

think Say Nothing.

>> I hear that story and I want to know

more.

>> That's correct. It's going to be great.

I We were I actually was asking him

who's going to play the kid in the

movie. Um I think he's already sold it,

I believe. So, okay, that's the show.

Thank by the way, it's a riveting read.

It's really You can't put I'm not sure

it has that as much meaning as he's

putting in it, but it's fantastic read

and it is it does it's about modern day

London, too, which is interesting. Okay,

that's the show. Thanks for listening to

Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to

our YouTube channel. We'll be back on

Friday.