You said to me, "The key to breaking

this brick isn't strength necessarily.

It's the ability to really, really

focus." So, can you show me you smashing

this brick?

Master Shaw Hungi is the world's most

hardcore monk. He uses his decades of

knowledge and techniques to help people

control their minds and overcome

society's biggest problems. This world

is filled with so much choice that it's

difficult to take a decision which

direction to go. what is right to do.

And so there is a lot of suffering with

the skills that you are developing

through kung fu training involves

methods and practices that give you the

ability to do this. But there are five

hindrances that make it difficult for

you to still keep your goal in the mind.

There is sensory desires, ill will,

dullness, restlessness, and then

self-doubt. And to overcome the five

hindrances, you recommend the four-step

rain method. Yes. And with this, I make

it super simple.

So many of us live in the same cycles of

unhappiness and suffering. I I witnessed

it in my life as well because I felt I

was never enough. My father and mother

put a lot of pressure in terms of you

need to prove yourself and so I did all

these type of practices and methods that

made it possible to be where I am right

now. I wanted the recognition by my

father but it didn't happen because your

father passed away from cancer. Yeah.

[Music]

How does one let go of that and

therefore break the pattern? I will show

you some practices. Number one,

this has always blown my mind a little

bit. 53% of you that listen to this show

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for you every single week. We'll listen

to your feedback. We'll find the guests

that you want me to speak to, and we'll

continue to do what we do. Thank you so

much.

Master Sha

Hung, based on everything that's

happening in the world right now and the

work that you've committed your life to,

what is the mission that you are on and

why is it so important right now?

I do think that in this

world there have always been different

streams, different forces.

One of them leading to the betterment of

humanity, one of them leading to the

destruction of humanity. And I do think

that there are types of wisdom and

knowledge existing out there that very

easily without any

additional help for anything

else can be very useful for the people

nowadays. Yeah, you don't need to go

anywhere. The only thing you need to do

is take a moment, contemplate about

yourself, go into

yourself and find the answers there and

then decide for yourself which part and

what type of contribution would you like

to give to the world that you're living

in. I ultimately think this is what I'm

doing. And what is it that you see

people struggling with? because so many

people write to you, they they send

messages to you, they come and see you.

What is it that you hear they're

struggling with at a fundamental level?

I would say it's diversity and choice.

This world is filled with so much choice

meanwhile that it's difficult in a way

to take a decision which direction to

go, what is right to do, what is not

right to do. But ultimately, it's only

yourself who knows the answer. Which

means it comes to the essential

point. Learn more about yourself. This

is where it starts because if you have

the wrong perspective of who you are,

what you are, everything else in this

lifetime you base your decisions on is

just not not going to

be placed in the right direction.

And what are the the other things that

you hear people suffering with on a

daily basis in the modern world with the

way that the world is now? It's

digitalized. We're lonier than ever.

Mental health seems to be surging. What

are the like fundamental things they say

to you or that that you in infer through

what they're saying that they are

actually struggling with? So choice

overload of choice and an inability to

make a clear decision is number one.

So being perfectly honest, I usually do

not very much rely on what the people

tell me, what they

think, what problem they have. It's just

that I look and I can see already what I

think you need. And foremost one of

these and it's very

simple non-religious nothing about

believing it simply is the fact you

don't use your body as it is intended to

be very

simple. Yeah. You we you you sit many

people sit too much during the day. The

body is not active at all. A lot of work

a lot of energy investment is done with

the mind.

less energy investment is done really

with the body and that simply means for

me I can see there's a

disbalance whoever created us he did not

create us to sit with our butt on one

place and do thinking work the whole

time I do think a part of why we have

been created is to get out on the field

and just do something out there and what

is the cost

of not utilizing our body in the way

that it was meant to be utilized.

Unbalanced energies that can translate

into anxiety, that can translate into

dissatisfaction, that can translate into

continuously searching and never being

satisfied. And the most common thing,

not

realizing how precious the moments are

that you

have. And instead of replacing them with

illusions and dreams and assumptions

which are just not

real meaning everybody is not even

Buddhist, it's not Shaolin. It is common

understanding. We don't know if we wake

up tomorrow. It is like this. Yeah. But

our plans go. We have five years plans,

10 years plans. We have short-term,

midterm plans. Yeah. The truth is we

don't know if we wake up

tomorrow. So of course I don't want to

make it like in sound negative. So just

live in the present moment without

planning. This is not what I'm saying.

But this is the challenge nowadays. How

do you balance out vision?

vision with

reality. Real the only thing real right

now is this. That's real for us. I can

feel it. You can hear it. You can sense

it. This is real. you nearly broke my

table and I was concerned because um

later on you will

be proving to me that you can break this

brick using your your mind and the

physical um preparation that you've done

which I find really really interesting

cuz I tried to smash this brick on the

floor and I couldn't. So all of the

things you talk about understanding

one's physical mind and and mastering it

but also understanding one's physical

body will find out if you can smash

through this brick. But on this point, I

I wanted to talk about an adjacent

subject, which is really like purpose,

what to do with one's life. And if we're

spending a little bit too much time

thinking off into the future um and not

enough time thinking in the present

moment, I'm wondering how purpose and

having a having a big dream for one's

life fits into this equation and if we

should have a purpose and if so, how do

we find our purpose?

So absolutely there is the field of

becoming conscious. Consciousness is a

big field. Then we have science is is

another very very big field. So some say

okay is it that consciousness creates

matter or is it the other way around?

Which one is which one is the

fundamental basis? What is the basis of

our interaction? So the truth is the

fact right now is regardless of science

no science how our evolution developed

right now we are here your body my body

we are

here this is what we are having right

now at the same time in the way of how

this lifestyle at the moment is we won't

have more than 50 more years to go in

that

body so very simple

without believing living without any

religious aspect. Once again, the truth

is the lifetime of what you carry right

now and what I carry right now, it's

limited. And now just imagine you would

be let's say the director of your own

movie. Jump out of the body and watch

yourself right now. You are sitting like

with Shi. We sit on the same table and

you are writing your story.

How do you want to write the story? You

want to afterwards, after this podcast,

you want to like feel

uncomfortable, feel unsafe, feel

unloved, feel like being just

unsatisfied with the whole life, cry or

anything like this or how do you imagine

what is a a a really nice way of living

for you the next 50 years. So and based

on

that purpose can be

different. You say I do like the travel.

I I do like to invest this lifetime in

this body to have the feeling at least

that I can contribute something to all

the fellow um brothers and sisters that

are around there. It makes me like I

wake up I like to do it. It gives me

purpose. So it is something very very

personal.

And which also means that in a way

speaking in in these terms right now I

do not believe that every human being

has the same purpose when it comes to

this type of

purpose but now there's another type of

purpose which is more or less personally

for me why do I

think that in the first place we have

been put with all these

possibilities and

uh positively said I do think it is a

blessing being able to just

experience. It's a blessing that we have

been granted the possibility of

simply experiencing what this existence

is capable of creating. including

everything, including the joy, including

the happiness, including the tears,

including the heartbreaks, all of this

without the separation. Whether you

prefer one area or

not, the one sometimes the one goes with

the

other. But the purpose in a way is just

be and

experience. The only thing that happens

and which is a big part nowadays is if

you

take your current existence too

serious. If you completely base your

identity, your

being on what you think you

are. But like I said, it's just a

picture right now. Yes. But just

sometimes make it very simple. jump out

of yourself and be the director. Be the

director of this

avatar and then it just opens another

perspective because in that moment you

just realize it's like a movie.

Not everything is always

positive but in the moment where there

are times of struggle

still not being caught inside your own

creation

identity

identity illusion of the self different

expressions for that it's a very helpful

way of thinking let's put it like this

because there are so many people that

say they are struggling to find meaning

in their life or they feel

purposelessness And you know, I get so

many messages from people all over the

world saying that they um they're saying

things like, "Is this it? Is this all my

life is?"

So, this is

literally also one one point that you

just mentioned is that it isn't there

more. That has always been a part that

followed me along the way. Yeah.

Especially now in the last three four

years after social media the algorithm

of social media really started also

pushing pushing us quite out

there. More requests were coming of

doing workshops, of doing podcasts, of

teaching here, of teaching there, of

making television show, of participating

in movies. And of course all together

with this doors start to open, different

things start to come in. But at some

point I just couldn't believe that this

is supposed to be the

purpose because it all still had to do

like had to do with

doing the constant

doing. Yeah. And there I felt in my life

now looking at this this couldn't be it.

So I I look for alternatives always and

always again especially feeling that

along the way of what you would say

achieving something being recognized at

something. Yeah. But the there's a

there's another side that goes hand in

hand with it that the public doesn't

see. There were times I could simply be

surrounded with like thousands thousands

of people but still feel

lonely. is not what you're surrounded

with, it's with what you are

connected. Yeah. And there I felt like

there is always again this type of

force. What is it that drives you

on? Going outwards, going outwards,

going outwards, you lose

yourself. But this self is the only

thing that can give you connection in

this life. And what do you need to be

connected to then? You talked about

being surrounded by thousands and being

lonely and it's really about what you're

connected to. What does one need to be

connected to?

Maybe before I answer you this question,

there's one thing I maybe want to like

mention beforehand. So when I went to

elementary school and also during my

school time, I actually for example

joined Christian Christian lesson. Yeah.

So by my parents I grew up with Buddhist

tradition let's say from the martial art

training I also got introduced into

so-called Zen

Buddhism because my father always told

me look son we are here in a foreign

country you're a foreigner it's always

better to have friends than to have

enemies that's why I made always friends

with everyone meaning I had a lot of

Russian friends I had a lot of Arab

Arabic friends. I had a lot of Turkish

friends.

Multicultural also meaning at some point

I also got like introduced into

Islam. Bottom line

is taking all of this knowledge from the

past into my

mind. No matter from which angle I'm

watching right

now, I do

believe that we all have a source.

There is a

source. So whether you call that source

is the

universe, whether you call the source it

is the God, whether this source is is

the the the infinite energy, I don't

know. There's so many different

expressions to

it. But when I look at all these

teachings, all are always pointing at

one and the same thing.

Let's just take the expression of yin

and yang. Yes, the symbol everybody

knows in the world. And there is that

nice saying yin and yang have a

mother. The mother sometimes simply

being illustrated as one

circle. So yin and yang as the

expression from duality, polarity,

existence of number two. Yeah. Where do

the two come from? They must come from

one.

So simple like in our way you are there

I am here one two where do we come from

there must be something that we have as

a common

denominator and this source is the only

thing that can connect

us because it's not your family it's not

my family they're still different that

is not

enough going just looking at we are

humans animals

name. Whatever and whoever gave us the

possibility to be here is the same who

gave you the permission is the same who

gave me the permission and the blessing.

And this is what I think this is the

level of mind. This is the level of

connection that never leaves you

lonely. This this is the one that I that

I mean being connected to the source.

Yes. Now, for someone that is listening

to this and is confused at this juncture

and they're asking themselves, what is

that source? You've described it in in

many potential ways, but it's the my

attempt at describing it is it is

ultimately where we came from. That is

that is the source. Is there a better

way of describing it for people that

might be unfamiliar with the concept?

First of all, I cannot speak without it

and it would make sense to everyone.

That's already the first very very

difficult part. That's why my intention

is never to say what is it. The only

thing I can do is to to like give

pointers. But ultimately there's only

one person who will be able to find it

out and it's not me finding it out for

somebody

else. Everybody will find out for

himself or herself. So every human

being I do think is at a different level

of his um of his growth of his

development and everybody gets what he

needs exactly in the moment where he is

in which is why I think everybody at

this moment in time is exactly where he

needs to be for the next elevation to

take place. The only thing you need to

do is look at yourself right now and

just find out what is

it that makes you

unhappy. What exactly is it that at this

moment in your life is binding

you and restricting you from moving on?

And this is the same question for

everyone. But the what you ultimately

need to tackle is different. In the

past, I sometimes played Super Mario and

Luigi. And it's the same. If you don't

like manage level number one, you won't

see level number two. The challenges

from number two won't come. The end boss

from number two is not going to come.

First, you finish level one. But once

number one is finished, you won't face

the same stuff

anymore. And there is something along

this line where it sometimes is like a

game at the same time.

Don't take it so serious helps.

On that point of we're all struggling

with something based on the levels we're

at. If you had to try and

summarize what the common answer is to

what people are struggling with, what do

you think that might be? I was thinking

about my um my best friends cuz

sometimes it's easier to step outside of

oneselves and look at others and I was

reflecting on the conversations I've had

with them over the last couple of weeks

about things they're struggling with.

And I would define a lot of it as

wanting. So wanting to improve their

businesses, wanting to improve maybe

their romantic situations and find love.

I would say the essence of it, the

suffering seems to be striving for

something that they're unable to grab.

Um, but I wondered if you had a

different perspective on that. Two

things that right now would come to my

mind.

There is always the struggle between

doing and

being. I would ask why are you doing? So

why why do you want to go into action?

Mostly there is a

goal. The goal why do you have that

goal? because you're aiming at receiving

something that in the moment where you

where you have it apparently you are

lacking. So that means this type of goal

setting in in my perspective I would

automatically refer to it already that

your goal setting already comes from a

space of

lack. You feel like you're lacking

something. That's why you need to do you

feel like you're lacking something

that's why you need to educate yourself

that okay so this is the one

direction now coming back maybe sounds

again too

philosophical connected with the

source there's nothing to add and

there's nothing to take away from

you so apparently when somebody has this

very very high ambition of doing

something, achieving

something, then most likely the chances

are there. This is not coming from a

connection to the

source. It is coming from the idea of

wanting to nourish or create an

identity. An

identity that represents something that

you think you want to

represent. Yeah. So this is the one area

the doing versus the being. And then the

second thing is that ultimately goes

hand in

hand with this way of living your life

is that you for that that one thing is

being forgotten along the along the

line. The truth

of that whoever and whatever you are

creating and are intending to create and

are intending to gather now and and

starting to um to attain

things your attainment maximum it's

going to last 100

years. That is the other truth.

So,

and I do believe people understand

exactly what I

said. But there comes the fight now

again. The fight between

Yes. between this very strong identity

that wants to just maintain

itself and the other side of just forget

about your

identity. Be as you are. That's it.

No matter what you're going to attain,

you have it for 100 years afterward is

gone. So just be don't stress yourself

too much with what you don't

have. Well,

unfortunately, and this is always going

to continue like this. Unfortunately,

there are always three ways how you

going to learn this.

Sometimes people just need to have the

experience to realize okay I did it I

got it now I realize I don't need it but

in the first place you need to have it.

First way of

learning second way of learning you do

trust a certain teacher you do trust a

certain guide or a

mentor you just copy the way how he's

living his life. So your approach is you

just copy because you see oh apparently

the person lives a good life. So you

just copy. Second way of learning. And

the third way of learning is you maybe

have like a teacher or a master. He

tells you some wise words. You

contemplate about it. You think about it

and because you were thinking about it,

it already puts you on the alternative

path without you needing to try it for

yourself. So, and there will always be

people in this world in these three

categories because you know simply said

telling somebody look don't don't put

your hand in the

fire. They're still going to do it but

later is when they do it like two times

three times then it's done. But a lot of

people never get the thing that they're

pursuing. So, you know, someone might

say I want to be a millionaire or I want

to have a this Lamborghini sports car.

The majority of people who aspire to

that statistically won't ever reach it.

So they'll spend their whole life just

in pursuit. They'll never get the lesson

of path one where you try it and you

realize

that. So but maybe that is also already

the lesson involved in this person's

life. You have this goal in the mind.

you you put all your energy, all your

effort into trying to achieve that.

You're 20 years old, you're trying.

You're 30 years old, you're trying. 40

years already, you're still trying. 50

years, you still haven't let go of the

idea.

Well, at some point

hopefully you see

exactly

that that senseless approach of how you

personally already wasted 30 years of

following a goal with the conclusion of

two things. Number one, you haven't

achieved it yet or number two, you

didn't had the right way of achieving

it. But the bottom line is you have two

ways now. What to do? let go of the idea

that you need it and and redirect your

life

or redirect your

approach of how you still want to

achieve that goal if you don't want to

let go of it. But apparently one of

these two things is is not right.

And the more you want your life now,

let's say in the future to be quite

different than what you're used to, the

more you need to be able to let

go. Let go of patterns. Let go of the

way of thoughts that you had in the in

the last years and months. Now, if

nothing changes about that, there will

not come a new life.

So many of us live in patterns, the same

cycles, and we we end up getting the

same results and those results result in

unhappiness and suffering. And I was

speaking to a friend over the weekend

about how one of our other friends has

lived in a bit of a pattern and they've

been able to unable to find love and

companionship because of some things

that happened when they were younger. I

think they were bullied. So they have

this sort of deeper sense of having to

prove themselves and insecurity. And

this shows up all the time because when

they meet someone, they present a facade

which might not necessarily be accurate.

And then very quickly the relationship

ends because it was never real in the

first place. But this person's now aware

of it, but it's still happening over and

over again. They're still living out the

same pattern in their life and still

getting the same results and

dissatisfaction. So when we think about

trauma at an early age that results in

this sort of cyclical pattern of getting

same behavior, same results. I wondered

if you had a perspective on how one can

let go of that and therefore break the

pattern. So let me draw you a picture.

I was a four fouryear-old

boy having father and

mother Asian

origin being refugees from Vietnam Laos

meaning

they they ran away from the

war coming to Europe coming to Germany

with the idea that for the children to

have a better security on the one side

feeling more safe in Germany without the

instability that they witness in their

own country. And so of course father and

mother with this

idea put a lot of pressure in early ages

already in terms of you need to be good

at school, you need to achieve, yeah,

you need to prove yourself. So this is

the education from father and mother. At

the same time, with the age of four, I

went into a Shaolin kung fu school

learning martial arts. And every martial

artist practitioner probably knows

teachers and masters usually are not the

ones telling you, "Oh, yes, you did that

very good. Yes, very well." No, they

they just say, "Okay, more, deeper,

faster, harder." So bottom line is from

the age of four growing up the only

thing that in the way I felt was

actually you're never

enough. No matter what I brought home in

terms of grades if it was a B why was it

not A? If it was a A why is it not A+?

If I did already 100 push-ups question

is why don't you make 150? Yeah. If I

was fast already it was still not fast

enough. So constantly this type of never

enough. Okay. Ultimately meaning and

this is all now I can just tell you 40

years later but now I can see it.

Ultimately meaning that at some point

this little boy started simply to build

up a shield. Build up such a shield to

be less dependent anymore on what other

people think about me.

Meaning I just started to rely

everything in my life purely on what I

think at the same time building up

emotional blockages and emotional walls

nothing to penetrate and at the same

time also nothing to express to the

outside.

So now having entered into like a very

new circumstance in my life where I need

to take into consideration the opinion

and the emotional state yeah of my

beloved of my partner of my

son. I can feel how my old patterns

sometimes are still trying to sneak in.

And so the only thing to do is what to

do to break patterns. Number one, you

need to see you have one. And number

two, you need to replace old patterns,

which ultimately mean patterns. It's

habitual behavior. It's it's habits. How

do you build habits by

continuous behavioral patterns that you

continuously do? So there is something

about consistency and continuity that

ultimately builds a pattern.

So and this is now where for example in

this field of martial arts that's

exactly what it's

about consistency of having a training

regimen every

day. This is yeah it's not helpful to

like six days per week do nothing and

then you go one day to the gym and and

give your everything. No, it's better

you have some type of consistency

throughout the whole day. This is what

builds patterns, healthy

patterns. Yeah. And so similar like this

I would describe now what is somebody

supposed to do? Number one, look at

yourself and see yourself. We are all

not

perfect, but according to the

circumstances that you are facing right

now

today, what type of character do you

think with what do you want to equip

your

character that he is able to go through

this current times in the best possible

manner? What is not useful for you

anymore, try to get rid of it. and get

your new skills in and then train those

and then train of course those new

patterns. We don't often think about

training some of the virtues that we

want to acquire and the patterns we want

to have. We we kind of think that we

have to select them and then we'll do

our best to live them. But the idea that

I might have to

train certain new behaviors is a really

compelling one because you're right, in

the context of any physical development,

I have to go to the gym and I have to do

my repetitions to build that thing, that

strength. But I um was just thinking

about creating a training regimen for

for certain behaviors

um and new patterns that I want in my

life and trying to make sure I do them

every day, which is not something that

I've I've ever considered. Three months

ago, you became a dad to a young boy to

a young son. Yes. Um, so you're now in

the process of raising a man yourself.

And there's a lot of dialogue at the

moment in the UK, but also just broadly

in the Western world around what it is

to be a man and how to to raise men. I

think much of this dialogue has been

sparked by some shocking statistics that

show young men are struggling now more

than ever in various ways. Um, I think

the single biggest killer of men under

the age of 45 is themselves. And also

there's just an overarching sense of I

think purposeless meaninglessness that

they're struggling in school more so

than women are. Some forecasts predict

that for every two women that graduate

university or college only one man will

graduate um in the near future. And it's

pretty it's pretty shocking. So when I

think about the way that you're intent

on raising your young your young man,

but also what it is that young men in

particular are missing in their lives, I

wondered if you had had an answer from

this

moment. There's one thing I can tell by

myself what I would absolutely prevent

when it would come, let's say, to the

education or what I share with my son.

Like I said, I felt I was never enough.

There was always something that

additionally needed to be done. So,

which literally means for me for my son

there is nothing to be done. There is

nothing he has to

achieve. If there if there would be

something it is stay

connected. So in terms

of I don't see myself as somebody who is

now having the responsibility to shape

my son. No, I only provide the

framework. I try to provide the most

safe framework for my son. He can try

out whatever he wants. If he fails, he

will learn by himself to get up again

and keep trying. So you know to fail and

then to

continue. I just want to build up this

framework as good as I can to make him

feel safe. Yeah. But trial and error is

what I do believe is the way how you

find

yourself. So definitely not being

spoiled but at the same time also not

like keeping something away from him

where where I make him feel like he's

not enough. So ultimately I do think in

the modern way of how to express it in

all these attachment theories very

simple of course it's the secure the

secure way of being a

stable own selfmade

self-sufficient

individual who knows his own value. Why?

Because he failed and got up. Why do you

think so many young men are

struggling?

No. Whatever shows up right now at at

this moment. Yeah.

2025. It didn't start in 2025.

Whatever appears right now sometimes

it's the result of how things have been

handled, how the education has been from

previous years, whether it's the last 10

years, whether it's the last 20 years.

So it's not necessarily what did the

generation right now do did wrong, let's

say. No, it's also the question of what

did the previous generation missed to

keep passing on that ultimately led to

the result that we have nowadays. So,

and this is the question

where where I do think it's

multi-layered.

You gave a a TED talk in 2020 almost 5

years ago now about the five hindrances

What are the five hindrances? You

describe them as five mental states that

are holding us back. Let's put the

context

first. Take it simple. Just you have a

goal setting. You set yourself whatever

goal it is, you have your

goal. So your mind is set on the goal.

Normally the five hindrances now simply

describe there are five mental states

that would actually make it difficult

for you to still keep your goal in the

mind whatever goal that is. So the

number

one for example is called sensual

desire.

Sensual desire means you are too

receptive for any type of pleasurable

feeling in regards to your five

senses. You're being too quickly attract

when you see something

beautiful. You're too quickly attract if

you smell something

tasty. You're too quickly distracted

when like you have like physical touch.

Yeah. So the first hindrance means you

you're losing the goal already because

in the moment something pleasurable is

being presented to you. Your your mind

has shifted

already. So that means that first mental

state only means look be aware of what

is it that you are very easily attracted

to. It doesn't say it's bad. It doesn't

say it's good. It just says in the

context of you want to reach your goal,

how to reach the goal the quickest, be

focused with your energy. Meaning be

focused with the mind. Don't lose the

goal from the mind. Whatever you do from

the moment of waking up until the

evening, whatever you do, keep the goal

in the mind. This is the quickest way of

making this goal become real. Number

two, simply said, you don't like

discomfort. You you don't like

challenges. You don't like

hardship. In that TEDex talk, I

described it like you're like walking

along the path and then suddenly it

starts to rain, but you don't like rain.

So instead of you just continue follow

the path, you are starting to make your

mind busy about what you don't like.

Yeah. And already that means the mind

starts to shift again losing the focus

of the goal. So this

idea num hindrance number one, hindrance

number two, actually you can easily say

it like

this. This is the goal. Two things not

to

do. Spend your time

enjoying. Don't do this.

Or spend your time

rejecting that things are not the way

how you imagine them to

be. Both of these things, one is you

follow pleasure and the other thing

you're rejecting any challenges. Both of

these things is something to be aware of

when it comes to stay focused along the

path. When we think about this first

hindrance of sensual desire, is this

where discipline comes into play? The

idea of discipline because that word is

often used, but it's often lacking a

clear definition, but also a clear

understanding of how one attains and

exhibits discipline. Because when I

think about the things that require me

to have discipline, it is these desires.

It is the five gates. It is something I

want to eat. It is maybe um some kind of

touch that I want to have etc etc. So is

this where discipline is important?

No. Even for example like in the book or

even now when we talk about we have the

five hindrances, we have the 14 virtues,

we have the eight rules, we have the

four here and the 13 here and the six.

Okay, it's a very good guideline because

it makes it easy for us humans to have

something like really structured. There

are there are four steps there are six

steps there are five steps

whatsoever what I want to say

is just in this way it's also that only

discipline wouldn't be helpful if in the

first place you do not possess the

ability

to see

it to realize it to be aware of

Meaning you have discipline but you are

never aware actually when is the moment

actually appearing right now that this

sensory desire is hitting in. You're not

aware of it. So the discipline wouldn't

help you if you don't have this

awareness. So always meaning I do think

that there are

different different qualities of the

mind that come into play for you

to to adjust yourself properly. I was

thinking about my friend when you

mentioned awareness there the friend I

described earlier who exhibits the same

pattern and although they might be aware

of the pattern they might say you know I

have this pattern I don't believe

they're aware

of the moment where that pattern begins

like this the singular trigger which

sends them in that in that loop so I was

and I was thinking the same about myself

I was like there's some behaviors that I

have that I don't like and although I'm

aware of them In the moment when it

happens, I might not be conscious that

it's the pattern has begun that the

someone has said something, something

has happened and then you go on that

pattern or you reach into the

refrigerator at 1:00 a.m. in the morning

and grab the thing or you end up being

triggered by something. So I wondered if

there's a practice at all to become

increase our awareness of the trigger

moment.

Yes.

This is for example where I very much

appreciate so many different teachings

that are meanwhile existing freely

available for example through the social

media including breath work including

yoga

practices all of them if you have a

proper

teacher I'm very sure that this is

exactly what is starting to raise your

awareness for something that in this

field when you are spending some time we

refer to as energy. If you're not aware

of your

own inner layer, let's say like

this, and somebody insults you, it can

happen that like somebody so somebody

insulted me and then I just started

exploding. Yeah. But the fact is before

something explodes, before I

explode, first of all, something must be

lit already. the the the small little

flame already must have been lit. So

when I already knew who is it that I'm

going to

meet maybe that already knowing hearing

the name from him already was

ah was already the starting point of a

potential explosion to happen. Yeah. So

then ah this was where when this little

flame already started being there and

then you literally can feel things like

this. You can feel when something is has

been injected, let's say, into you when

something starts to arise because when

the fire is already too big, when the

whole house is burning, you're not going

to you're not going to

[Music]

um put down that fire in any way. You

can only put down all of these fires

before things come too big. meaning we

must find a way to be directly grabbing

the root, grabbing the core or grabbing

the source of the

explosion. And the only way that I know

is you need to become more sensitive for

everything that goes on in your

body, in your surrounding, in

everything. This is where for me

awareness does play a

role and

yes and especially when it comes to

becoming aware of your emotional states.

This is absolutely inner work. This has

nothing to do with doing work out here.

It's inner work.

How does one begin the journey of doing

that inner work?

You give trust in the vision that when

you are investing your time right now to

become more aware

of yourself, of your emotional state,

then this is going to benefit your life.

That's the starting point. You believe

in it. You believe in it. So you don't

do it because somebody tells you you're

supposed to do it. You do it because you

genuinely believe this is the way. Yeah.

I want to know more about

myself. I want to really understand what

is it that I am made out

of. You want to figure out is there

something inside of myself. I tried to

look away for many years but I know it's

still there and was afraid to look at

it. All of these

things. There's only one way to make

yourself free.

You need to become

transparent. Yeah. If there are if there

are spots inside of ourself where

there's no light

yet, it can't

be. It can't

be. Bringing

light to everything that has been in the

dark. This is another area of the past.

which at some point everybody will

face. Yeah. And even though that is is

even though that this is not just like a

saying

but just the

idea whatever you're doing whatever

you're thinking whether people are

around you or you are

alone just imagine there is one who

always sees what you're doing.

So live your life based on that.

And that person is you

also.

Who else is it? It is the elevated

version of you. But it's true. It's you

and you.

Once I've shone a light on that area of

me, so I have greater awareness of its

existence and it's now transparent.

Is it a case then of what is the work I

then have to do to make a change in that

in that context? So, we're talking here

about managing one's emotions and

getting a grip of one's emotions so you

can avoid being triggered or

perpetrating the same patterns in your

life that have led you to the same

outcomes. First, you you believe that

it's possible to to change. You gain a

greater awareness of the parts of

yourself that you've kept in the dark

that you might want to change. And then

what does one do from there? Because I

came let's say from this martial art

field. Yes. Also meaning the Dao is

teaching or the principles of yin and

yang have always been the part in

there. Let me put it like this.

Whatever you are

thinking, saying or

doing

has a

consequence. So this consequence that

you have created or that you are

intending to

create, ask

yourself what is that consequence

actually? Does it make you yourself?

Does it make your being, your

interaction with

people, does it make it feel more

light, more pleasurable, more enjoying,

more

free, more

nourishing? Or is the result that you

are about to

create going in the other direction?

Meaning you're nourishing conflict. You

are nourishing aggression. Feeling like

you are carrying the suffering of the

world on your shoulder. Feeling like

there's a burden on you. Feeling like

there's a stone on your heart. Feeling

like you're being put under pressure.

See all of these expressions have

something to do with density. Have

something to do

with

pressure. Yeah. But then when we look at

no matter which tradition it is,

Buddhism,

enlightenment,

freedom,

liberation, elevation, no matter what it

is. You see, it is just two forces in

the

world. Two forces in the world. One

aiming for

limitlessness and the other one aiming

for restricting and very clear

boundaries. These are the two

forces.

So, and this is exactly now turning the

view upon

yourself. What are you made out of? Your

your patterns, the emotional states that

follow you within a

week. Within a week, looking back the

last week, what was the most dominating

emotion you felt inside yourself? Was it

one that had the character of limiting

yourself in a way or were you in an

emotional state like through the week it

was light it was liberated free

uplifting joyful which of these so and

this simply gives you exactly from what

to what do I think you need to transform

yourself if you want

this if you want this.

So,

and why do I think that this is the

goal? Lightness. Lightness. Let's just

imagine after this

conversation, your best friend or your

best girlfriend going to ask you, so how

was this

conversation? And even so that we are

maybe just talking 3 hours, four hours.

Even if you spend two days long

explaining to your best friend how this

conversation was, it's not the

truth. It is not the

truth. How is this conversation? How is

this conversation? Even right now, we

cannot even speak about

it. I tell you how this conversation

right now really is. Yes.

How you want to describe

this? You only you will be the only one

ever

knowing how this

is. It doesn't matter who's going to ask

you afterwards what you're going to tell

them. You want to feel it, you need to

experience it. There is no other way.

And this is the this is the nature of

words. This is why these these ancient

stories come. For example, one master

and his student walk up on the mountain

early in the morning. Then the sun rises

up and then the student says, "Oh,

master, what a beautiful sunrise." And

then like the master like slaps him and

never takes him to a walk uh anymore.

Then you say, "Why was the teacher so

hard to him?

Because in the moment where you give

something that you

experience a

word, you limit

its

nature. You you you naturally limit its

nature. So how does this now translate

into into what we can do with this

knowledge?

Whatever is being dense and it's

limiting I don't think it's the

way I think everything for us to

practice is look beyond

limitations look beyond the

words look beyond the shape practice to

look beyond the superficiality of

things because this is where the meaning

lies or this is

where part of

the part of the realization lies.

I think in my life I I want to be light,

but the way that my life tends to

operate is I might aspire for that, but

then I fall into almost a bit of an

autopilot and I run the same pattern

throughout the week and the same I

respond in the same ways to the same

external external stim stimulus. So

although might one might aspire to be

freer and to be less agitated or to be

you know all those things I quickly fall

back into my old path my old autopilot

because life does seem to come at me

pretty quickly. Um if I look at my

calendar it's just full every day. So, I

wake up and like I woke up this morning

and I'm like with one eye open looking

at my phone schedule to figure out like

what day it is and what that means and

what I have to do and what's just

happened and oh, the podcast has gone

out and I've got this email from this

person and there's my calendar or when

I'm late for by 20 minutes and although

I might have the day before said to

myself that this week we're going to be

joyful and light and free, it feels like

the week hits me like a truck and then

boom, autopilot.

So our goal is set in a way and now

comes the next realization. Just because

your goal is set doesn't mean this life

is going to give you exactly what you're

looking for.

meaning you really must make sure how

important is that goal really for

you because yeah I

uh I I witness it in my life as well. So

at some point I you know when it started

become a lot public you know the

calendar went full and at some point I

said to myself okay now it's becoming

too full let's start to let's start to

settle down a bit let's start to stay a

little bit more in the background. Yeah.

But then still like requests coming in

still and then you were think ah come

this one still. Yeah. But ultimately

it's really up to you how much do you

really want it and it is going to

continue like this until you will

ultimately come to the

point and it's going to come quickly I

do think

yeah where you realize for yourself that

that it's an

infinite that it's that it's an infinite

direction of possibible abilities. They

will never run out. But you will still

have to figure out what is it that you

really want from your

life. People will say, "Well, I want to

have a mansion and I would like to have

a private jet and I would like to have

a beautiful partner or I'd like to have

a

trophy." Valid. Absolutely

understandable as well.

But I do think that this

universe is going to let you realize

your lesson in the way how you need

it. Yeah. You're going to have your

mansion. You're going to have your

beautiful, beautiful wife. You're going

to have it all. There is something

that's going to put you back on

track. There is something that's going

to put you back on track. Telling you,

you need to readjust.

It is why why why

why it has always been like

this. We come with

nothing. We go with

nothing. What does it

mean? This universe is going to make

sure that you going to go with nothing.

Which means at some point before it's

time for you to go, you will be faced

with the fact of learning the necessity

of letting go of what you have attained

in this

lifetime. And if you have not learned

and have not understood that this is

going to

come, then I think it's a very very hard

awakening. It's a very painful

awakening to realize to have this

realization that you have spent 70

years 80 years following your goal and

now there is no other choice. You have

to let

go.

So

yeah is not my

invention is just my observation.

And this is why in now maybe let's jump

a little bit there are literally in the

ancient traditions in the text of chan

Buddhism Zen Buddhism is very simply

said like this. How do you know that you

have practiced this past this tradition

in a in

a in a decent

manner? It is simply

by feeling inside yourself how easy, how

willing are you actually to let go of

what you

have. If you feel that you are mentally

attached to still things, still mentally

attached to

possession, you're far you're you're far

away from from the state of being what

this chan Buddhism, what this chan

teaching is uh wanting to like reveal to

you.

What it also means is if you have the

possibility of attaining everything that

you were speaking

about, you are absolutely happy to do

so. You are you can own

everything. It's never about promoting

to have this is not good. No, but to

have attachment at least in this type of

tradition will have consequence.

So it's not about what is it that you

possess. It's

about what of these possessions are

possessing

you. That's it. And therefore, is it

possible to possess things and to pursue

the possession of things while

also having a relationship with them

where they don't possess you? I.e. Can I

go in pursuit of getting a what's

something that one might want? A sports

car. And is it possible to then have the

sports car and pursue it without it

possessing me and therefore me avoiding

the consequences that come with that

unhealthy relationship to

possession. Cuz in your life there must

be things that you're pursuing and you

get those things. So your book sells a

million copies. your YouTube channel

does exceptionally well. You pursued

those things. Let's start with a sports

car. Okay. Um

it depends on the rest of the

circumstances. So, let me put it like

this. If the salary that you have, for

example, is just as much that you can

pay your rent. Nevertheless, you want to

have that sports car. Therefore, take a

loan, then buy the sports car. It's very

probable you're going to be very

attached to the car. Yeah. Simply

because out of the out of the situation

you bought it from. Yeah. You didn't buy

it from a from a position of abundance.

Yeah. So this is already not a good

starting point to afford something that

you actually cannot afford. So

differently it is

when you have the

possibilities and you just spend the

time and spend also the money on the

sports car and see it what it is and

realistically see it what how much time

you let's say spend with it. I do think

the excitement in the beginning is there

for a week, maybe a month, that's

already long, but it's fading. And at

some point, there will even be a day you

don't even see it cuz you're busy. Then

there will be a week when you see the

car once standing around somewhere. And

then there will be a months passing by

where you are traveling the world and

you're not even sure anymore when was it

the last time that you were riding it.

So, and these are things like when you

observe them and actually realize yeah

it's the truth. This is how the how the

development of things with possessions

is in the beginning it's always like you

want to have you want to have and then

they

fade.

go and diving into this type of

mentality of really

understanding wanting. Wanting is the

one part and then realizing how is life

really. Do you need it? Is it necessary?

Can you afford it is the second part. It

just opens another perspective and then

you just decide for

yourself. Yeah. But so whether something

is possessing you or you can possess

something without being attached to it

very much is linked to all of

this. From which position did you buy it

from? Did you attain it from? And then

the second thing is how much time do you

literally really spend with it? The

second of the five hindrances is ill

will. A negative emotion such as dislike

stops you from chasing a goal.

Can you give me some context on this

one? What do you mean by ill will?

Look, it's I make it super simple when

it comes to the five hindrances

literally is like

this. No, whatever whatever appears in

our

life. If I have my goal set right now,

what you are not supposed to do is to

witness

something. And now if you have like the

number one sensual desire, sensory

desire, what we tend to do is we like

start to pull things towards

us. Okay, that's number one. The second

thing, what not to do, this is what it

all belongs to that family of

non-judgment is like when ill will

something appears in your life.

Something you witness. Yeah. You meet a

person you don't want to meet. You get a

message, you don't want to read that

message. whatever it is and you try to

avoid it by doing actions in order to

push it away from you. So what it

ultimately means is don't do any of them

because whatever you try to hold on to

the nature of thing is that this is

happening swinging away. is going to

move away from you and whatever you try

to avoid and push away from you is just

a question of time

until it's going to move like pretty

close towards you. It's going to come

towards you. It's going to come towards

you.

Okay? So that

means also in the way of how it's

expressed, don't touch the

water. If you don't want to

have a life that is too

shaky, don't touch the

water because in the moment you touch,

your touch is the initiation for the

ripples to appear.

Same way you want to follow that goal.

You want to have it easy along that

goal. Don't touch any additional water

along your goal. Don't touch it because

you like something and don't touch it

because you dislike something because

when you walk towards the goal and you

do here and here and here, you you're

just going to ripple your whole

surroundings which ultimately means your

energy is being just drawn away from

your initial goal. That's how I would

say it is an ill will is one of these

expressions of you don't like something

and then you invest the energy there.

You like something and it draws your

energy back to there. And ill will is

similar in this category belonging to

this idea

of don't push, don't pull. as you've

become more popular and you've got

millions and millions of views across

the internet. Your TED talk, I think

from the link, one of the links that I

saw had some 20 million views and it

probably has tens of more millions of

views all over the internet. Um, there's

going to be more and more

people sending you messages, interacting

with you,

and saying amazing things, saying not so

amazing things. We experienced this

obviously as a podcaster. you just you

get you receive all kinds of feedback

from everybody. When you think about how

you manage that and you manage other

people's opinion of you does this tie

into ill will and I guess the ultimate

question is do you care what people

think about you? So there was a time I

cared a lot a lot a lot a lot very much

but within the last five six years I

really had my hard lessons being

perfectly honest. Number one thing I

need to learn is also to

really not take things too deep into

consideration especially from people

that I've never met in my life. Number

one that is the first area I needed to

learn which means all the everything

that's on social media everything that

is publicly available. This is one thing

why because what they judge or if they

judge or what they comment they can only

comment on the character that is

actually being available to them. So

which is ultimately what which is for

example also let's say that

person yeah named Shuhungi on that cover

always like having a good uniform in a

way representing something

yes but I'm simply not limited to only

this type of

representation and this is something

really really important in general now

to to bring out there to the

world. It is

not it is not good. It is not

helpful if this idea of putting people

on on how you call it on on higher

pedestal or or podest is not a good

idea.

The idea of raising somebody up to be

our guru, raising somebody up to be our

master, raising somebody up, oh yes, he

is the he is the special one. All of

these

things are doing exactly the opposite of

what I'm trying to bring into the world

of what I do believe is the key

especially in this times right now

worldwide. It is to become aware of the

real and the

fake. This is the this is the current

situation that we're in that the

threshold that the line between whether

something is real or whether something

is artificial or not real. It's becoming

so

incredibly slim that

line. This is why at the moment our

world seems seems so

fractioned. There are the ones which are

completely about let's go into the

nature and then there's the other

fraction which is all about going into

the technology into everything that's

available nowadays where ultimately

meaning at some point you will be able

to just spend your whole life in your

living room cuz everything you want to

see and want to partially experience you

just call it into your living room. It's

going to be possible at some point in

time.

So why how do we get to the point? Yeah,

exactly. Because of this, it's not good

if people raise you up and make you

unhuman. And this is what is being

attacked. So this is number one. That

takes a little bit the pressure off from

me to take it too seriously because I

just know they are seeing something but

it's a fraction of what I am. This

number

one second realization at the same time

was also not helpful or wasn't helpful

and or let's say was also a lesson for

me even the close people even the very

close people in my surrounding that

stayed with me for 8 n

years sometimes even such close people

don't know who you are can also happen

hurts double as much as people saying

something about you that don't know you.

Now you have people that you thought

know you and still they didn't get you.

Also very

painful. So ultimately leading only to

one thing. It only leads to one thing.

You would have right now the impression

of so what's the only way? Just go your

way regardless of what people think in a

way. Yes.

But have understanding for

them and and no ill will against them.

Have empathy for their lack of

understanding.

Yes, that is ultimately the only thing

that me as a as a result for the current

state of

being the that I took as my consequence.

Yes. So be careful, be very aware who

are you letting into your

circle and ultimately rely on yourself

and maintain

your sorry to say, but it's the

heart. Maintain the purity of your

intention. One of the things that I've

I've noticed in your work is that you

have this huge emphasis on being able to

focus oneself. And when I talked to you

about this brick, I think just before we

started recording, you said to me that

the average person on the street might

not be able to break it. But if someone

was really, really strong, they might be

able to break it. However, the key to

breaking this brick isn't strength

necessarily. It's the ability to really

really focus. And when we talked about

the five hindrances, they will sway us

from focus. They will distract us from

that ability to focus. So, you've

cultivated that ability to focus, which

culminates in you being able to smash

this brick with your hand. And it's not

necessarily a strength thing you're

saying. It is this connection between

mind and body focused at a particular

moment. Yes. So can you show me you

smashing this brick? Absolutely.

Do you do you put the the brick in the

in the middle of the blocks or do you

just put it there? Put it like this. Oh.

So okay. Okay. So chop it down on one

side. Okay.

Do you have another brick? Yes. There's

another one

here. You're going to pick your brick.

One is one is too easy.

[Applause]

hell.

[Applause]

[Laughter]

Damn. So, what were you doing then in

the in the leadup to that? Just have

your hands like here to the front.

If I touch you like this and only do

here. Yeah. M see this like I don't have

a good feeling for you. I don't have a

good feeling for your body. Yeah.

Because it's like it's superficial right

now. Mhm. What I do is like when I touch

you know so it's not this type of

touching you. When I touch you I

literally try to sense your body

structure. Yeah. I I feel like inside

you where is the tension? Where's the

relaxation inside the

body? So it's like we call it I'm

reading your

body. I'm reading your body. How is it

where is the energy locked? Where is it

dense? Where is it loose? So the same I

do with the

stone. But when I when I touch the

stone, I literally feel inside like

sounds funny, but I feel inside the

structure of the of the stone. I feel

the density of the stone in my

fingers and then I just see okay

[Music]

now. So I I I know how the energy is

going to come down. I know how the

energy is going to come down and then I

just like see how does it fit together.

So on the one side I feel the structure

of the stone. On the other side I know

what type of energy is going to come in.

Those two I combine and then I just boom

do it.

That's it. And how does that translate

to life generally?

Good question. Because we, you know,

it's not a problem I have day-to-day,

but that ability to understand the

energy of something and the structure of

something and then really understand be

able to cultivate your own focused

energy when you need it.

I do. So, do you need to have this

ability to live a proper life? I don't

think so. But somebody who is able to

break the stone like this definitely

possesses some type of skill set raises

the probability that you can do

something with that mindset in your

daily life. Which means already

um the only way to do this is you know

what consistency

means. You know what patience

means. Yeah. you also knows what like

endurance means or

like training means and all of these

character attributes that make it

possible to break the stone just also

builds the foundation I would say to

integrate this now into other areas of

life yeah so it's not about the breaking

of the stone but at the same time it's

also an expression of look the human

your body is capable of doing a lot of

things. Yeah. And this is just one of

them. There are so many extraordinary

abilities that people can do nowadays,

but all of them have one thing in

common. You have a vision and you find a

proper way how to nourish that vision

that the vision becomes

real. Similar like this.

So this is a consequence of

yes a long journey of several character

traits and attributes which you've

cultivated over a long period of time

and this is just a a symptom or a

consequence of those things. You know

that's that's exactly the thing similar

like you know when yeah when nowadays

you look at any type of competition

sports the event itself the competition

is being recorded that one minute

performance.

Yeah. Or that nine rings or that three

three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. But

everything that makes it possible for

them to perform in that one minute on

that show. Nobody sees what is lying in

front of there. Similar like this. Yeah.

It's it's it's with less than one second

the stone is broken. Yeah. But took like

a few years to be able to do that one

second. And how long would it take me to

learn how to do two bricks like you just

did then? How long do you think you

would have to spend training me? You're

looking at my hand. M because it's

important because it's literally not

only about um it's not just about the

focus of the mind. It literally is also

about building the density now

physically speaking the density of the

bone structure. So I I can just give you

if you like a a little

example. What we do is this part and

this part of the arm we just smash it

like this. Oh my gosh. This is like a So

like this. Okay. Okay. You just try like

one just go really. Oh my

god. Your yours is like a steel.

Yeah. And and this is what it is.

Yeah. So it is changing you if you want.

You can like touch. You can feel it's

Yeah. It's like steel. Mine's like um

polyyrene in comparison to that. But

well, yours just feels like steel. It

felt like I was hitting a a a bar or

something. Okay. So, you've got to build

up the strength. But still, to answer

the question, I do

think 3 months, but dedicated training.

Yeah. Mhm. And what would that training

look like? So right now as I explained

before this is why I also like in the

book I mentioned one of the grandmasters

that I also learn a lot of the methods

from this is now let's say it's a stone

yeah stone belonging to the family of

earth because okay earth now in a in

Asian tradition we have like the five

elements or the five transition phases

wood earth metal fire water like these

five elements So the proper training

starts with the so-called wood training.

Okay. So we are using a lot of wooden

material to actually condition our body.

Yeah. So you're not going to break

stones. You you break like first of all

wooden things. Mhm. After wood is no

problem for you. Then we go to the next

layer which is going to be stone. You

know this was this was this one for

example. After stone comes metal. And so

like this you we we go through all the

layers until your body has increased in

its abilities. You know the frequency of

wood, you know the frequency of stone,

you know the frequency and vibration of

metal. And this is how we increase our

ability to just uh be able to to to

actually maintain our strength in the

field of all five elements. You can

break metal

or you can hit metal. You can hit metal.

You can hit metal. Okay. You can hit

metal. Thank you. Fascinating. Thank

you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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conditions apply. I was really thinking

a lot about these

um

virtues in Shaolon tradition. Virtues

are a guiding system in both martial

arts and daily life. The Shaolin warrior

practices thinking deliberately and

mindfully about the virtues of everyday

life for his or her life. And the there

are two categories of virtues. the

virtues to be expected and the virtues

to be

leared. What are these virtues that you

speak about in the Shaolon tradition?

Prior to somebody entering now let's say

into the temple and wants to learn from

there. First of all we also as teachers

want to find

out what does the character of that

personality already

possesses. Yeah. And these are for

example what we are looking for are

ultimately the virtues to be

expected. Virtues to be expected are for

example self-control. A certain amount

of

self-control, a certain amount of

discipline. So self-control, what does

that mean in this context? If I'm

self-controlled, what am I? You don't

let your emotions run over you. Okay?

You you you don't even if something

makes you angry but in this context it's

not honorable it's not respectful to now

shout out you shouldn't do it okay you

should like be able to maintain

your emotional states maintain your

temper let's say also at least to a

certain extent this is where I would say

it comes to self-control and the second

one you said was discipline so

discipline

meaning you have like I said even if

it's called the virtues to be expected

expected means they should be visible

somehow but not to the fullest extent to

to what's what people are capable of

okay discipline just meaning this

understanding that if you come to the

temple life you know it's going to be

difficult to wake up every day at the

same time and then start to do through

the go through the daily structure. So

it it needs some type of commitment.

Let's say it needs some type of I know

it's hard but I'm willing to do it. This

type of discipline. Yeah. This is also

in a in a way expected. And then uh

another one is simply to be benevolent

as well.

So that's kindness and compassion for

your brothers and sisters. Kind of it

goes. Yeah. The virtues sometimes swim

into each other. But this idea of why do

we have these virtues in the first

place and again it's like in Star

Wars the force what you're

learning the cultivation of

energy the skills that you are learning

they are these are very very powerful

things. Yeah. But what does what makes

the difference between somebody

possessing this power and using it for

the sake of humanity or somebody using

it for the um for the not betterment of

humanity. It's the

character. The power is the same. It's

the character. It's the carrier of the