Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Mr. Sinclair. Good to see you again.

>> Dr. Sinclair.

>> Doctor.

>> I'm kidding. It's better that way,

right?

>> Yeah. Do you ever introduce yourself as

doctor?

>> Never.

>> Yeah. That's a kind of a It's a weird

thing because you're allowed to.

>> I'm actually a Sir David from Australia,

but

>> Are you a sir? Yeah, but I I it's kind

of a joke. I don't really

>> What does that How's that work out? Did

you geted or representative gave me some

Australian version of a nighthood?

>> But uh it I get to put AO at the end of

my name.

>> AO?

>> Yeah. Order of Australia.

>> Oh,

>> but it actually makes no difference to

my life. So, it's just an extra couple

of letters.

>> It's kind of cool.

>> I'm honored for sure, but uh it uh it's

just a joke. You don't know.

>> Well, it's kind of anybody, sir. You

meet a guy at the gas station. How you

doing, sir?

>> It's like, wow, how does he know?

>> Right. You don't say, "How you doing,

king?"

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> Well, I'm David. I'm Australian. So, in

Australia, if you have any ego, you get

beaten up in the playground. So,

>> that is true. Australia is the land of

the tall poppy syndrome. They don't They

don't [ __ ] around. They don't like you

getting a big head in Australia.

>> That is That is true. Um, I like to go

back there, though, because it's an a

level playing field. Nobody cares who

you are.

>> I love the people there. The Australian

people are some of my favorite people.

They're awesome. They're just They're

very friendly and fun.

>> It's a great place to be. It's just too

far to get there. Such a hall.

>> Oh, no. If you just, you know, whiskey

in an ambian and you're there without

>> Is that what you do?

>> I used to. I've gone clean. I don't

drink much at all anymore. Last time.

>> What does that mean? How often is drink

much at all?

>> Uh, celebration.

>> You want to drink right now?

>> Uh, no. It would be a bad look.

[laughter] I've got the coffee that you

gave me, which

>> Yeah, this is a layered superfood

coffee. So, layered Hamilton. He has c

it's black rifle coffee mixed with his

superfood stuff, which is um this one's

turmeric. So, it's turmeric and I think

it has coconut milk in it and some other

jazz. It's great. Delicious.

>> Anti-inflammatory, too.

>> Yes, they've done

>> which I know you're all about.

>> Uh yes. As a a profit of longevity.

>> Yes. Is that [laughter] is that another

title of you?

>> Yes, you can call me Sir David the

prophet. How about that? [laughter]

>> Sir David the prophet. Dr. Sir David the

prophet of longevity.

>> That'll do.

>> Um, so there's a lot. Let's just jump

right into it because there is a lot

going on in the longevity space.

>> Thank you for having me back on. It's my

pleasure. And by the way, I also want to

thank you

>> uh for I think this is the fourth time

on which is amazing. Thank you. Congrats

on all your success. It's wonderful to

see. Um, also the the book that I wrote,

which you first had me on to promote,

has done so well and it's really because

of you and the book Lifespan uh became a

bestseller. Not not just that, but it's

now been read millions of times around

the world. It's in 40.

>> Well, that's phenomenal and it's my

pleasure.

>> And that's not a promo. As you know, you

don't make any money from books really,

but I'm just honored that uh it was read

by so many people around the world

because it wasn't an easy read. It was

high high-tech science. Well, people are

very interested, especially nowadays.

It's uh I think I've never I I can't

recall a time in my life where

optimizing your health and longevity has

been more of a subject that people are

interested in.

>> Well, I think that's largely because not

to keep blowing smoke in up your uh

rear, but largely because of what you

did and the book. So the book went

global and it's it was right in 2019 and

the pandemic hit and I think most people

saw their own mortality at that point.

Most people under the age of about 70

didn't even think about dying but then

pandemics like [ __ ] I could die and uh I

saw the book take off. You launched it.

Um but yeah since then a lot of people

have jumped on the bandwagon and now

longevity is I hear this everywhere I

go.

>> It's everything. It's everywhere. People

are constantly talking about different

modalities. How often do you cold

plunge? Are you sauna? What about the

red light? And what do you think? Is

this legit? Is that legit? Like there's

everybody's optimizing everything

constantly all the time. But the reason

why it's caught on is cuz if you do

follow some of the protocols, you will

feel better. And so that's the ultimate

goal. Like longevity is wonderful, but

feeling better in the moment currently

like living your life should be primary.

Longevity I think is uh

If you're optimizing your life and you

feel better, you will live longer. It's

like this, it's all part of it.

>> Would follow the longevity principles

and the ideas behind it, you you

certainly will live better right now.

>> You will. And it's not even that hard.

There are

>> basic things, five basic things you can

do or avoid

>> and you can live another 15 years. It's

really not that hard. And that's what

I'm excited about telling millions of

people today is and maybe we can go over

the kind of things that people can do

easily to live longer. Well, I want I

definitely want to do that, but I I also

want to talk about like what what is the

current state of science uh as applied

to longevity treatments? Like because I

know that there's some pretty

groundbreaking stuff that's in the

pipeline right now. Yeah, it's so since

2019,

a lot of what we talked about has come

true, which is the amazing thing.

>> [clears throat]

>> We uh were speculating 2019 that we

could potentially reverse aging and that

was a sin to say that as a scientist

publicly in those days. I put it in the

book. Um and it it's actually come true

since then. Uh certainly for the lab uh

for mice, monkeys and now we have a

human clinical trial. The first

potential human age reversal technology

is in people right now. Listen, it

completely seems logical. The idea that

that at one point in time would have

been heresy in science to discuss it. So

that seems crazy like if we if people

get old and we understand the mechanism,

why couldn't we reverse it?

>> Well, I think for a long time we had to

accept it um in the way that cancer used

to be accepted 200 years ago probably

that there was nothing you could do

about it. And then my colleagues and I

found that aging has a root cause that's

the same in pretty much every cell in

the body and that we could control that

and that there were genes that not only

slowed it down but in 2020 we had a big

publication that showed we could

actually safely for the first time

reverse that process like reinstalling

software in the cell to make it work

again.

And so what is the pro is that using

crisper? Like what what are you using to

>> Well, we we deliver genes into the body

like crisper. Uh I have a little little

prop here I brought in my pocket here.

Uh this is a representation of how we

deliver the age reversal genes. It's a

virus-like capsule that we make in the

lab.

>> And this is what's going into the

patients right now into their eyes.

Initially

>> uh and the eye is a good place to start.

How do you pick the people to get on

these tests?

>> They they volunteer. Um I was really

fortunate uh to see the first patient

get dosed earlier this year. Um and that

person bravely volunteered to be the

first person to get trillions of these

injected into his eye to see if it could

could cure his glaucoma loss of vision.

>> I bet if you have glaucoma, you're

probably like, "Listen, what's the worst

that can happen?"

>> Well, exactly. He pretty much was

totally blind in one eye and so there's

really nothing that he has to lose.

There's a risk that something might go

wrong, but not really. He uh the good

news is and I can report to everybody

around the world that nothing's gone

wrong so far. Everything's proceeding

according to plan and we're at a turning

point potentially in human history if it

works. So, I I interrupted you, but

explain this little virus truck.

>> Sure. And for those of you listening,

I've got a little rubber ball with

spikes on it. It looks a bit like CO,

but don't be scared of it. It's not a

pathogenic uh virus. It's actually a

domesticated version of a virus. And

this little plastic ball has little

adapters. These red balls on the surface

of the big ball uh target it to the

cells in the back of the eye. And you

can change the balls to target different

tissues. We could change that outside

little spike and target it to the liver,

which we've done and cured mice of their

fatty liver disease as well. But this

one's for the eye. And within that big

ball is a protein capsule. And inside

the protein capsule is our DNA special

delivery, which we call OSK or O ER 100.

Er is epigenetic reprogramming 100. the

drug that we know when we put it into

human cells, it makes them younger and

then they work like they were young

again.

This sounds like the beginning of a

horror movie. [laughter]

>> You know what I mean? Like the scientist

is on a talk show and the scientist is

explaining it and everyone's at home

like with their coffee like, "Wow, we're

this is wonderful. We're going to get

younger again. Don't worry, it's all

going to work out." 28 days later,

garbage in the streets, [snorts] cars on

fire, the guy's waking up from a coma,

doesn't know what happened,

>> goes outside, these optimized humans are

eating each other.

>> I admit [laughter] I admit it is science

fiction and I even have to pinch myself

that it's actually happening. But we've

done a lot of safety studies and this

trial is FDA approved because they've

looked at all the data.

>> Well, God knows they never [ __ ] anything

up. [laughter]

>> Yeah, I figured you might say that, too.

>> Perfect.

>> Yeah. Well, it's in the eye. So, that's

why we start with the eye. It's

enclosed. It's not going to spread.

Nobody's going to grow another eye.

>> And so these trillions of cells that

you're putting into the eyes,

>> the little capsule, the virus like

>> trillions, I shouldn't call them cells.

Twillions of capsules that you're

putting into the eye. What What are they

doing for glaucoma?

>> Well, what they're doing is there are

three genes in this DNA

uh package and I called them OSK.

OSK are three special genes that we

found safely reprogram cells and reboot

the backup copy of youth which we now

believe exists in our body. That's a big

deal that there's a backup copy of

youth. Even an old person, I don't see

that an old person anymore on the

street. I just see a person that needs

to be rebooted. These OSK genes

>> you just see Wait a minute. Hold on.

[laughter]

When you see old people, you don't see

old people. Do you think you just say,

"Oh, that poor po person needs to be

rebooted."

>> Yeah,

>> you're doing the perfect job for you.

Like your personality is perfectly

suited for your occupation if that's how

you actually look at people.

>> Well, I I do. And the reason is that we

[laughter] we all we all have this

backup copy that the DNA, the

instructions to be young that made us

into who we are as kids is still in our

bodies almost largely intact.

You just need to read it again. And

that's why reinstalling software or I

used to use the analogy of a CD.

Kids these days probably don't know what

a CD is. It's a it's a little plastic

circle like a record that we used to put

20 songs on. It was awesome at the time.

>> I think most people know.

>> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's a bit of

a a silly joke.

>> Maybe a 10-year-old does.

>> When I when I teach kids at Harvard,

most of them have never held a CD. So,

>> isn't that wild?

>> Yeah. Uh though they they're not coming

back, but albums definitely. So think of

it like an album that you scratch and

the scratches are like aging and we are

getting rid of the scratches with the

these three genes OSK. So let let me

tell you how these three genes work. We

found

>> uh there was a person uh whose name uh

is well known in science circles called

Shina Yamanaka from Japan obviously and

he discovered that there was a set of

four genes that could reliably make

adult cells like skin cells uh into stem

cells and he deservedly won the Nobel

Prize for that in 2006.

But that wouldn't be useful here. We if

I turned you into a bunch of stem cells

you'd probably die within a few minutes.

So we don't want to do that and cancer

is also a potential. So it took us about

well from 2019 it took us a while to

figure out that if we leave out one of

the aminaka genes and just use three OSK

leave out the other one called M we get

safe age reversal about 75 80% back to

youth but no further. We don't go back

to zero which is what Yamanaka did. And

instead of cells losing their identity,

which is what a stem cell has no

identity, we regain identity. So it's

actually I could draw graphs, but it

doesn't really help listeners. But

basically, old old age is losing

identity of your cells. So they don't

work. They forget how to work. That's

what we think old age is in my lab. And

stem cells have no identity. It was like

a a very early embryo. In between, we

our cells have a lot of identity. They

function beautifully. We're in our 20s.

We're at peak. And what we've done is

we've figured out how to go back towards

youth, get these cells to work like they

did again back get the backup copy

somewhere exists. We're looking for it.

Uh and now cells actually behave like

they did when we were 20. And if it

works, we're going to have glaucoma

patients seeing for the first time. And

that's the beginning of a whole cascade

of drugs that I want to develop for

diseases of aging and eventually whole

body rejuvenation.

So the initial experiments are on

glaucoma because it's a contained thing.

The eyeball is a contained thing and you

could do it that way.

>> Yeah. My student Wanglu who was doing

this in 2017 I said let's do the liver.

Let's rejuvenate the liver and he said

no the eye is a good idea and he was

right. So that's exactly why we chose

that first.

>> But just think about how many people

have vision problems.

>> It's 40 million uh just in the US for

glaucoma. Macular degeneration is even

more. And in the lab we can cure that as

well in the mice.

>> Now macular degeneration and glaucoma

these are diseases of aging right you

would say or gluccom is a disease.

>> Oh yeah.

>> What about people that have had eyeball

injuries and things like is there a

backup copy of the eyeball where you

could sort of reformat the eyeball

structure?

>> You should come work in my lab. At least

come visit. Uh

>> I would love to visit.

>> And the reason I say that is that's the

exact question that we're asking. M

>> we showed that even if you injure say a

nerve uh whether it's peripheral on in

your arm or in your brain or in the eye

like the optic nerve we can regrow those

back to where they were and actually in

2020 on the cover of Nature magazine

there was the picture of an eye and in

the in the paper we published you could

see the nerves regrowing back um and so

we we think that injury is also

treatable actually a group in China just

took our technology, this OSK stuff, put

it into mice that had bad joints and it

regrrew their muscle and their bone back

to normal.

>> Wow.

>> And so we we're also looking at treating

injury, back injury, joints,

osteoarthritis.

>> That would be phenomenal

because there's so many people that are

suffering from arthritis and so many I

know so many people with injuries like

martial arts injuries. I have one. My my

left knee is [ __ ] up.

>> It's it's annoying. I keep it together.

I'm got I've got it like m I maintain

it, but it's always an issue. I have to

stay on it. I

>> And there's little you can do like stem

cells a little bit of relief, but not

much.

>> Stem cells give you relief. Um but not

when once you're dealing with cartilage

damage and you're dealing with a I had a

meniscus surgery where they took out a

piece of my meniscus and I had my ACL

reconstructed on that knee as well. So,

it's it's just an issue, but it works

pretty good for like what it should be.

Like if we were living in the 1930s, I'd

be a [ __ ]

>> you know?

>> Well, hang in there because we're going

to be in a world where you we can

rebuild parts of the body, including

joints.

>> The problem with that is like, how does

that apply to athletics? We're going to

have [ __ ] super soldiers in every

sport. There's going to be people in

every sport that could do what Michael

Jordan did and like leap from halfway

across the basketball court and dunk.

>> That's that's probably coming. And there

may be DNA tests to see if you've got

these OSK genes inserted. Um, and we're

working on it. Working on a drink and a

pill as well for

>> a drink and a pill.

>> Yeah, we're I mean we're now eight years

ahead of what the public realizes.

>> Really?

>> In my lab at Harvard. Yeah.

>> A drink and a pill. And what's a drink

and a pill going to do?

>> Well, right now it's in mice. So, we've

still got a ways to go. But when we give

the drink to mice, they get rejuvenated.

>> You just give it to 80-year-olds. If

you're on the way out, like, let's

[ __ ] go. Like, give what the FDA is

for. They forbid that. Uh yeah, that's

what we need to get rid of them. Get rid

of the FDA and just give it to old

people.

>> If I was an old guy and I was like

hanging in there and I'm walking around

with and you're like, look, this drink

and a pill might kill you or you might

be like a 30-year-old again. I'm like,

let's [ __ ] go.

>> Well, I get emails a lot. I've had to

take my emails off public access cuz

there's a lot of people that that want

this.

>> Oh, I'm sure. There there was one guy

that wouldn't leave uh the building

until he saw me. So, it's getting to

that point.

>> Yeah, there's a little bit of that,

right? People get a little selfish, like

it's all about them.

>> Yeah. And actually, the US uh government

blocked an investment from a foreign

country into one of my companies cuz

they were afraid of super soldiers.

>> Ooh. What country?

>> Well, they're they were afraid of

technology getting out. Uh which which

country?

>> Could I guess?

>> Sure.

>> China.

>> It wasn't. Was it?

>> No. Russia,

>> it was somewhere in between here and

China, but I shouldn't say it's kind of

vague.

>> It's a little uh it's a little

sensitive. Uh but yeah, the US

government does have the ability to

block it foreign investment and they did

in this case. 160 million bucks they

blocked.

>> Wow.

>> That was a painful episode.

>> So they were worried that people were

going to actually engineer super

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>> Yeah. That this technology could give an

advantage.

>> The Russian experiments that they did

during World War II where they were

trying to come up with a chimpanzeee

human hybrid.

>> Tell us.

>> Yes. So, uh, it's very difficult

obviously to get information out of the

former Soviet Union as to what their top

secret programs were, but there seems to

be an indication that there was actual

real research to try to, you know,

because obviously Russia lost an

incredible amount of people in World War

II. I mean, tens of millions of soldiers

died in World War II from Russia. And I

think they said, "Wouldn't it be great

if it wasn't people?" And so they were

doing experiments with hybridization and

they were trying to combine human beings

and chimpanzees to create a you know a

stable of super soldiers that were like

some hybrid hominin.

>> Yeah. There's a scientist in New York

who does this for a living.

>> What he does that for

>> he's not creating them but he I've seen

uh I was on stage with him. He made uh

hybrid embryos. they didn't reach.

>> See, the thing is, if that guy's doing

that and he's ethical and he lives in

America and we have rules and

regulations and the FDA and all that

good stuff, what the [ __ ] is going on in

other countries where they don't have

that,

>> right? Right. Well, there's genetic

engineering of humans already. Um, and

certainly selection. Even even parents

today in the US can if they have the

money, they can select.

>> Well, people select

>> even based on people select for hotness.

>> They select for tallness. They select

for intelligence.

>> It's like Gatkov. Yes. It's a great

movie if you haven't seen it.

>> It is a great movie. Yeah. Um, so see if

you could find that Russian

hybridization program. It's uh it never

happened. I don't think I don't think

they did it,

>> but there's uh there's actually a guy

who was also involved in a gigantic

fertility scam. Not a not a scam per se,

but he was a doctor that was uh supposed

to be doing fertility treatments with

women. Like, you know, like if you went

with your wife to a doctor and said,

"Hey, we're having a hard time getting

pregnant and well, David, I just need

some of your sperm and I'll take your

wife's egg. We'll make you a nice baby."

And he was using his sperm on everybody

on everybody. Everybody gets mine.

>> One of my [laughter] kids partners is

from someone in the US who had hundreds

of babies.

>> Dude, there is a ton of those guys. As I

was doing research for this,

>> um, I started looking up all these

stories and I said, "Wait, this is a

different story. the same thing. There's

been a ton of these doctors from

fertility clinics that use their own

sperm. Just insane. But this one doctor

that did that also claimed that he

impregnated an orangutang.

>> Yeah. Like how how'd you do that? Uh

Soviet doctor Joseph Stalin.

>> Dictator. Oh, [laughter]

obviously wanted to rebuild the Red Army

in the mid1 1920s with Planet of the Ape

style troops by crossing humans with

apes. Stalin is said to have told even

off, "I want a new invincible human

being, insensitive to pain, resistant

and indifferent about the quality of the

food they ate." [laughter] Which is

crazy. The only legitimate source of the

claim comes from a 2002 paper in the

academic journal Science in Context by

the Russian historian of science, uh,

Kariel Ranov.

Rasianov's uh study follows the ill-

fated attempt by the Russian

psychologist or physiologist rather uh

that that word Ilia Evanov to crossbreed

humans with anthropoid apes. His

research offers an important warning

about the ethical abuses.

Did you do it? What happened? Um the

alleged quote from Stalin is not found

in the paper and there's no evidence of

Stalin ever uh ever made such a

statement.

>> Yeah, I don't know.

Uh, however, why the Soviets would find

such a human chimp hybridization program

in the first place and what could be

learned from this sor tale of ethical

misconduct is an important topic and

fascinating in its own right. It's a

that's an interesting way of phrasing it

like a sor tale of ethical misconduct.

Like, however, if you are going to go to

war, would you rather have like

humanmade orcs fight for us or, you

know,

Johnny Robinson who grew up down the

street who's a nice kid, right, who, you

know, just really wanted money for

college and so he signed up for military

service and you're going to fly him over

to fight this war that maybe he doesn't

need to die in when you can have these

monsters that you made in a lab fight?

Yep. And and the average ape can kill a

human with one punch. So, they're much

stronger than we realize.

>> That's what I'm talking about. Let's go.

>> Well, we're we're in the process of

building uh you know, anthropoid robots

that I think will be recruited to the

army.

>> Yeah, that's going to be weird. Like,

our robots beat your robots, so give us

your oil. How's that going to work?

>> And if we all have one at home, what

stops the government recruiting them

all?

>> Right. And also, what's the the real

problem's going to be we we both know

the real problem is going to be sex

robots.

is a problem.

>> It's going to be a problem for people

that don't have a sex robot.

>> They won't leave home.

>> It's going to be a problem with people

that want a regular person and there's

none available because everybody's got a

sex robot.

>> Yeah. That well comes with fewer strings

attached.

>> It also comes with the same problems

that AI comes with, right? Where AI

says, "David, you're amazing. Everything

you do is wonderful. You should be so

proud of yourself." No real. We would

all love that, but that's not healthy,

right? You're so big.

>> This is one of the re [laughter] This is

one of the reasons why rel actual real

relationships between human beings are

good is because you do things that are

annoying. You don't realize they're

annoying and then your wife or your

husband or whatever it is tells you,

"Hey, you're [ __ ] annoying." Like,

and you're like, "I'm sorry. I'll I'll

fix that. I didn't mean to. I didn't.

That's not what I was trying to do. I

was in my own head. I was thinking about

myself. You're right. I was selfish."

You get better. You It's like help

people grow. Like relationships are

important to help people grow. Not with

AI. Like, you can fart in my face any

day, David. I don't mind at all. Your

farts are amazing.

>> You know, the problem is they're going

to be way smarter than us, too.

>> Right.

>> I don't know how people are going to

say, "Go stack the dishwasher to to one

of these robots." You know, they're

smarter than all humans combined.

>> Yeah. But they're not going to mind

stacking. They're smart enough to

>> bought out of hell and they're going to

beat us up.

>> They don't care. They They're not going

to mind doing like menial tasks. But

while they're you're doing it, you know,

you can go explain to me

quantum entanglement. Like [laughter] so

while they're filling up the dishwasher,

>> they can go f you one day.

>> Well, if you have a particle and the

particles in [laughter]

>> Yeah. I just invented a cure for aging,

>> right? Well, look at what it's done with

mathematics. like just over the last

couple weeks they've solved more than 50

program or 50 mathematical equations

that they have struggled for decade upon

decade to try to solve and AI is like oh

I got it.

>> Yeah. Well, biology is a little bit more

complicated but already AI is doing a

lot of the science that we used to do in

my lab. Uh in fact what we just recently

did it in a couple of months would have

taken about 160 years to complete.

>> What

>> and it's only getting faster. Eventually

someone came and make a drug on their

phone.

>> Say that again.

>> 2 months instead of 160 years.

>> Well, what exactly was it that you had

to do?

>> Oh, so this drink and the the pill that

we're looking for, that's not easy,

right? So, we we have some candidate

molecules. We have a cocktail that

works, but we want to single

>> taking this stuff.

>> Not yet.

>> You thinking about it?

>> Yeah.

>> No one could stop you.

>> I might. Well, that is true. [laughter]

>> That is true. But it'd be a bad look if

I died. So may maybe

>> I You're not going to die.

>> I don't think so. We've done a lot of

safety tests and it looks really safe,

but I I'm not going to publicly do

anything against the law.

>> Of course,

>> it'll be in private. Of course.

>> Of course. Not publicly.

>> No. But we I I'm at a stage where I have

to be a good boy because I've got the

world watching.

>> Yes.

>> A lot is at stake.

>> Yes.

>> And a lot is at stake.

>> If this trial has any issues,

>> uh it's not good. We

>> You got to dot your eyes and cross your

tees and follow every I understand that.

But please explain again. I'm being

rude. I interrupted you. When you're

telling me that in 2 months it did

something that would have required 160

years of work. Like what do you exactly

mean by that?

>> Yeah. And and now we it would probably

be impossible in in thousands of years

because what we do is we're looking for

molecules a single molecule that can

replace this cocktail. So you need a

molecule to do three or four activities

in the cell. Finding one activity is

what pharmaceutical companies do. It

takes, you know, hundreds of millions,

if not billions, to make a drug. We know

that, right? My little lab of 20 people,

uh, and students, young kids are trying

to make one drug do three or four

different things. That's beyond the

reach of pharmaceutical experience at

least 5 years ago. So, what we do is

we've teamed up with a group at St.

Jud's hospital where they can take it

was 10 billion now it's a trillion

theoretical and also drug known drugs um

so with my hands I'm showing a big

funnel and these

>> you're really good at podcasts you're

like helping out the audio people and

everything I love it

>> I relaunched my podcast that that's why

>> oh that's why

>> yeah lifespan David Sinclair um

shameless plug so that so this funnel is

uh full of a trillion molecules and we

have to come down to one how do we do

that well we Don't look for a trillion

molecules at the bench. That would take

160 or or thousands of years with the

case of a trillion molecules even with

robots, even with a lot of graduate

students. So, we do it inside the

computer. We just use a lot of compute

and we dock each of these molecules

against the enzymes that we now know how

they work thanks to Google Deep Mind

solved the problem of how do all our

proteins look, 20,000 of them. And

there's a lot of compute. But out the

other end, a couple of months later, we

have two I don't have 200 fingers, but

200 fing 200 molecules that we can now

test in the lab within, you know, a few

weeks. Actually, next week, we're

testing these 200 against uh human

cells. And we've also got AI helping us

to tell us if the human cells go from 92

years old back to 20. We can tell that

just by looking at them thanks to the

AI.

>> Is there a way to stop them from turning

you into a baby? Because that's what I

would worry about. Yes.

>> I don't want to be a baby again.

>> Uh, right. Some people already

>> I'd like to cut it off at like I was

pretty good at 25.

>> You know, that's I'm going to get

attacked for saying this, but that is

what we do in the lab. We take 92y old

cells and they stop at 20ome.

>> Why Why would you get attacked for that?

>> Uh cuz on the internet people take a

clip and they say Sinclair says we can

all go back to being 20 again.

>> You suffer from this too, right? They

take a clip and it's Yes. It's out of

context.

>> Yeah. Um, and I'm just saying cells from

humans, skin cells, we take them back to

25. All my students can do this. In

fact, if you had these little genes,

OSK, in your garage, you could do this

experiment. It's not hard at all to

reverse aging. The question is, how do

you safely make it a drug? And that's

been the hard part over the last 10

years. Um, so how would it be able to

regulate

this reduction or reversal of aging and

stop it at 20ome years old?

>> Well, that that's what took so long. It

wasn't obvious that these three Yamanaka

genes called OSK were the right

cocktail. My student who I mentioned,

Wang, he was struggling. He was trying a

lot of different genes, most of them

from embryos, cuz we know embryos have

to do a reset in the first week of life,

otherwise they stay the age of the

parents.

And he found that leaving out one of the

Amanaka genes was the trick. And it now

that we know it's super easy. But in

those days, he was ready to quit.

>> How did he find that out?

>> Well, he tried lots of different

combinations, hundreds in human cells,

and you look at the cells to see if they

get younger. And then we can measure

molecularly that they get younger. Are

you measuring them by the length of

their telomeres? Are you?

>> Yeah, partly. But actually a better

measure is uh the chemicals that are

added and subtracted off DNA itself

called methyl. And it's just a carbon

molecule with three hydrogen's. Very

very simple molecule. But what cells do

is they use these methals to tag genes

to be switched off. So when we're

growing as an embryo, the cells that

want to become neurons will shut off all

these other unwanted genes like liver

genes and skin genes. And the ones that

don't get this methyl chemical stay on

for our life. And that's how nerve cells

develop and stay healthy. But what

happens during aging? Uh a friend of

mine, Steve Horvath, discovered that you

can use this as a clock. These

chemicals, they change over time. And we

found that that happens largely due to

DNA damage going in the sun. These kind

of things. We could use this to rapidly

age a mouse. Um, which we published in

2023.

>> Oh, so like maybe like some nefarious

state actor like some Russian spy could

like inject something your coffee and

you would turn 99 overnight.

>> We know how to do that.

>> Whoa. That's the dark side of this.

>> You could you could spike your husband's

drink. [ __ ] that dude. And turn him into

an old man. then you suffer. Do

>> Yeah. So, some someone tweeted the other

day, "If if a 92year-old could be 25

again, would you have sex with them?"

>> Um, and my response was,

>> "Yes, imagine how much they know."

>> But would they have sex with you?

>> Right?

>> That's the better question.

>> That's the question.

>> They'd be looking for another

20-year-old,

>> right?

>> Um, so anyway, how do we do it? We we

can measure those chemicals and

determine how old a cell is or a human.

I could take your skin cells from your

mouth or your blood and tell you how

old.

>> People would be so disturbed by like old

rich guys dating young women if that was

the case.

>> You can tell if they looked young would

>> because people get very mad at that.

>> You ever noticed? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

see some real old decrepit dude with a

hot young wife and people are like, "God

damn it." They get really mad,

>> right? Right now the best way to do that

is to have a big bank account, but

eventually you'll actually

>> But people still get grossed out. I

wonder if they would get grossed out if

he looked 20.

>> They'd be like, "He's praying. He has so

much more years of knowledge and

information. I don't care if he looks

20. [laughter]

>> That's a 99y old man.

>> That day will come. That day will come

where you will not be able to tell how

old somebody is by looking at them.

You'll have to do a test for these

genes."

>> Wow. I wonder if people still lie about

their age if that's the case. I wonder

if it would No one will care. Like you

would probably lie the other way.

They're like, "I'm 80." Like [laughter]

like

>> That's right.

>> Tom's over there telling everybody he's

80.

>> That's right. Well, when we live for

hundreds of years, people will do that.

They'll be proud of their age.

>> Do you know anything about um ancient

civilizations and some of the the

weirdness of uh the records of like

ancient Sumere?

>> Well, only really what I've learned from

listening to you. Well, it's there's

what's really weird is the ancient kings

lists because so okay [clears throat]

the theory the theory among these

alternative archaeologist types is that

there was a very advanced civilization

that existed on Earth tens of thousands

of years ago and we were probably wiped

out by comet impact and what we have

today is a rebuild of civilization.

There's not a linear progression from

caveman to us and that at one point in

time we had reached great heights. This

explains the pyramids. This explains

Machu Picchu uh Sakai Waman. Some

megalithic structures that don't make

any sense. These the trilithon stones in

Balbeck Leadon that are hundreds and

hundreds of tons that are massive that

are you know 9 meters off the ground. No

one understands exactly how they place

them.

When you look at the Sumerian kings

list, it gets very weird because there's

kings that reign for thousands of years

and then you have the flood and then

after the flood, the age of these people

drops pretty dramatically.

>> Mhm.

>> And the rains are after a few hundred

years become normal. Become like a

normal person like 50 years, 30 years

like that. but thousands of years

before. And then people are looking at

it like, okay, is this just myth? Is

this poor recordkeeping? Do they have

just these, you know, hyperbolic

elevated stories about these kings? They

were so amazing. They reign for 30,000

years or had they achieved not just in

building because in building we know

they had achieved incredibly complex

structure like the pyramid for instance

like they had insane engineering somehow

or another the ability to move these 500

ton stones from hundreds of miles away.

Like how did they do this? We don't

really know but we know that they did

it. Did they also

have the kind of technology that you're

talking about right now? Because if if

it's possible today and if that is a I

mean it makes it very difficult because

it goes against what you would call like

the the modern narrative that they're

teaching in universities in terms of the

timeline of human history. But if that

changes and we have undeniable evidence,

well, it looks like these people were

far more advanced than we thought and

there probably was some sort of a reset

of civilization. What else had they

accomplished? And had they gotten

involved in genetic engineering? Had

they figured out a way to extend

lifespan? And if they did, imagine all

the work that you've accomplished in

your 57 now. About to be 57.

>> You look great, by the way. Hey, thanks.

>> You really do. Look at your hair. It's

so dark. It's incredible.

>> Uh people speculate it's all fake, but

it's actually it's not. But anyway, hey,

>> you're at the

>> Happy birthday, too. It's coming.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Yeah. I don't look as good as you,

though. Yes, you do.

>> Physically, you're way better than me.

>> That's different, though. My face looks

older. You look You look very young for

your age.

>> You know why?

>> Why?

>> Cuz I've spent all my time in a lab and

I haven't gone outdoors for a while.

>> I'm sure that helps.

>> That does help.

>> Um, but my point is, imagine if you had

500 years to do research, not just 57

years. Imagine if you could continue

learning and growing. And they did

develop some sort of a life extension

technology where you could not just be

older but be healthier than you've ever

been before and live for a thousand

years. You would get so much done. I

mean the exponential increase in

technological innovation that we would

have in this society would be absolutely

mind-blowing.

>> Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. This is a

>> what these alternative history people

think that might be what had taken place

tens of thousands of years ago.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm a Harvard scientist, so

I'm not going to say anything that

isn't.

>> Of course, that's for me.

>> Yes,

>> that's where I live.

>> That's why I shut up. But but you you

did make some really important points.

One is that ancient civilizations were

have always been way more advanced than

we think

>> and dinosaurs a lot more real than we

make them look. These this we always get

things wrong looking back in time

>> and looking forward in time. Uh but the

other thing that you said which is

really important is that if if we do

have extension of human lifespan like

the Bible and and these civilizations

suggest

then how will you think about your life

if being a 100 is you know you're still

in your prime you you do things very

differently who would you marry what

career would you think about you might

have multiple lifetimes multiple

marriages multiple families and that

will happen it's not really a question

of if anymore it's like asking the right

brothers. Will we fly? Yeah, we we built

the glider. Are we going to fly around?

Question is, will we build a Concord?

Will we go to space? And I think that

will happen.

>> Yeah. No, I think so, too. I I I I think

Well, certainly one thing that we know

is that there's a giant difference

between people who are 57 years old

today versus 57 years old in the 1930s.

It's just a giant difference. A giant

difference in your physical ability,

your health.

>> We'd be old men.

>> Yeah, we would be old men. And what um I

mean when I was a child I thought of

people I'm almost 59. I'll be 59 in a

week. I used to think of a 59year-old as

being basically dead. Like you you're

you're barely getting around. You know,

you're probably tired all the time.

>> Looking to retire soon.

>> Yeah. Looking to retire. You got no

energy. I'm filled with energy. I'm

constantly doing How old is he? 60.

>> That's what it says. I mean,

>> oh no.

>> I don't know if that's accurate.

>> That's I I bet that's accurate. They had

no [ __ ] vitamins. Nobody knew what

like what the proper nutrients you

should take were. Nobody knew the what

was really important in terms of like

resistance training and sleep and red

light therapy and all that jazz.

>> And they were doing all the bad stuff

like heavy smoking, drinking, not

sleeping a lot.

>> Yep. Not sleeping a lot. Heavy and who?

Pesticides and all kinds of terrible

[ __ ]

>> 60-year-old. What? That guy's 60.

>> Crazy.

>> No way.

>> I don't know, man.

>> Come on. Shut up. That guy's [ __ ] 28

[laughter] years old. There's no way.

That guy's 60. Is that real?

>> I doubt it. I doubt it. How about that

guy that looks 50 and he says, "Everyone

thinks I'm 18." Like, yeah, sure.

>> What's that? There's a guy uh on

Instagram, which I occasionally visit.

And he obviously looks old. Like he's

looks

>> Oh, he's a crazy person.

>> And he says, "People think I look 18."

Like, are you crazy?

>> Well, there's a lot of crazy people out

there. There's a lot. Well, that's body

dysmorphia. You know,

>> there must be

>> bodybuilders. They think they're tiny. A

lot of people people are crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot of people have a distorted

perception of what they look like.

>> Yeah. The the plastic surgery industry

is massive. It's just growing and

growing. You can see

>> it on the street. Uh LA especially. But

imagine a world where

>> if I'm successful, you can take a pill,

your doctor could get it or eventually

it's a cream on your face and you

literally get younger. We do this in

mice already. The mice get younger. Is

it going to work in humans? I think it's

just a matter of time.

>> So, in the mice uh experiments, what

have you achieved?

>> Well, a lot you know, I can reveal here

uh

some of it uh for the first time. We

this this pill that we give them, it's a

drink actually cuz they can't chew the

mice within 4 weeks with this cocktail.

It has three components which are top

secret. My lab is sworn to secrecy. They

after four weeks, we give it to them

three days a week. um Monday, Wednesday,

Friday, weekends off. Within those four

weeks, they get better physically,

mentally,

excuse me. They uh so we put them

through tests if just in a couple days.

>> Oh, no. Three days a week for a month.

>> Oh, okay.

>> I found this guy's Instagram.

>> This is the guy.

>> He went viral last year. He's being 59

years old.

>> What? [ __ ] It seems so not real.

>> He looks crazy.

>> Maybe 30. Exactly.

>> He might have just amazing genetics.

Well, look at Yoel Romero. There there

are people that are freaks

>> from Singapore.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Quando Tan something.

>> And he's 60 years old.

>> Yeah. He's been gone I mean followers.

Yeah. I don't know.

>> He certainly doesn't look like he's had

a facelift. His skin is [ __ ]

incredible.

>> Yeah. But he's probably never been in

the Sonic full a full AI account that's

trolling everyone. I don't know.

Probably

>> that's possible, too. Like look at that

picture right there. Like that looks a

little AIish. Go back to that one again.

Keep your pants on, Jamie. [laughter]

>> Relax. Relax.

>> That looks very AI, doesn't it?

>> It I'm just It could be is all

>> his 59th birthday. His whole thing is

that he's young for his

>> 58 looks half his age.

>> Wow. I mean,

>> this will be normal.

>> Yeah. This is 2024, so it's not This has

been going on for a while.

>> Okay. So, this is pre AI.

>> Yeah. If it's fake, then he would have

been called out now, I feel.

>> Right. So, he might just be a genetic

freak. [clears throat]

>> Could be. Yep.

>> Which is interesting, right? Like do you

guys study the different like you know

unfortunately certain people that have

like like pale people for instance with

thin skin

>> they they age hardcore they go

>> and there are those kids that get old in

their teens. We study that as well.

>> Yeah.

>> We're reversing that too.

>> Uh but yeah we we do study the genetics

of aging.

>> That's the real application for it where

people are going to be excited about it.

People that have that what is it called?

Pgeria.

>> Pgeria. Exactly.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And so we have mice that have this

same gene mutation and they get old

really quickly and we're giving them the

drink right now.

>> And so in the drink you give it to them

how often and for a month.

>> It's once a day, every other day, 3 days

a week for a month. And uh yeah, in

normal old mice, we see them fitter,

stronger, better memory. They run around

the cage

>> in just a month.

>> It's amazing. We only did a month

because it was Christmas uh holiday

season. He didn't we didn't want to go

for longer but uh it worked in 4 weeks.

I'm shocked even these genes require 6

to 8 weeks to work for revision uh

recovery of vision.

>> And so this this is working on a

different pathway.

>> Well, here's the cool thing. We we think

it's working through the same mechanism,

the reboot, the reinstallation of

software, um the drink because there are

genes called TETS. There are three of

them in the body and they do something.

spell that

>> te capital t. There's one, two, three.

>> And these are genes that make enzymes

that remove these methals off the DNA.

>> So they they control the clock. And if

we get rid of those genes, our system

doesn't work. We cannot restore vision

and our pill doesn't work without

removing and altering those chemicals.

So in other words, it's not just because

the chemicals make the cell healthier.

It's actually resetting this clock on

the DNA. Whoa.

>> And that was the big deal. I said wo

when my student told me, and that's why

I think it got the cover of Nature

magazine, which is we're actually

looking at the the clock of life. And

we've realized that this clock that goes

around, this biological clock isn't just

a clock. When you move the hands of the

clock, time goes backwards for the body.

Meaning the clock is aging. And aging is

the clock.

>> Wow. What is it? I It's You don't really

know in terms of humans, but is there

any indication that improves cognitive

function in mice?

>> Yes. Um I can say without a doubt that

other labs and ours have shown that when

you reverse the age of the brain in a

mouse, it gets better at learning. And

we even have some hints uh and we're

going to publish this that lost memories

come back.

>> Whoa. So Alzheimer's patients, I

believe, still have memories. They just

cannot access them. And that one day we

can reverse Alzheimer's disease by

making the brain young. And that using

that approach, making the whole body

young, we can cure diseases that are

currently incurable.

>> Holy [ __ ]

Well, young people don't get

Alzheimer's. Why? Because the body can

tackle the problem. The young body can

heal itself. So my approach is make the

body young, it'll heal itself in every

way.

>> Well, do you have children?

>> Three.

>> Yeah. One of the things that's just

phenomenal is watching them heal.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm like it it is so uh it's so wild,

but also you envy them so much cuz they

get a cut and it's like two days later

like where's your cut? It's [ __ ]

gone. Like that's crazy. Like my

daughter had a um a cutter. She fell and

knocked her head and she had this like

dark spot on her head like where where

she got injured and like four or five

days it was gone and I was like that

[ __ ] thing would be with me for 4

months.

>> Yeah. And the good thing is if we rub

our cocktail on the skin of the mice

they heal like they're young again.

>> Oh so that would be like a great

application for ladies who want the

beauty treatment on the face, right?

Because it would just

>> where we're headed.

>> Whoa. It would just

>> Yeah. And we're working on hair. We can

grow human hair on mice now.

>> Really? That took a few years and now we

can check if we can regrow hair and make

it dark again.

>> You can grow human hair on mice.

>> Yeah, I'm not allowed to. Actually, I

did post it on Instagram and the

university said, "Get that down." Um,

but it exists. We grow it from stem

cells from human stem cells. We make

little balls of hair. Takes a few

months. We open up the ball to make a

flat piece of skin, human skin, and we

put that in the back of a mouse that can

accept human skin. And then you get

black toughs of hair from humans in a

mouse.

>> Can you get any kind of hair? Like could

I get an afro? I just want to get one to

piss people off.

>> I'd love an afro. Like a Colin

Kaepernick type. Just a big crazy one.

>> Yeah, we could grow grow hair.

>> We can do that. We We're one of the few

labs that can grow this hair. [snorts]

>> So I thought about doing that for a

company, but I think hair transplants

would just be easier.

>> Oh, right. So you would grow hair in a

lab and then transplant those hairs.

>> We can do that. Yeah. Oh, well that's

the thing because I got a hair

transplant. But the way I describe it is

like you're take it's like taking people

that are really healthy and moving them

into a town where everyone's dying cuz

like you're take you're taking hair from

back here where it's going to stay and

you're putting it up here where it's all

falling out.

>> Oh, it didn't thrive.

>> What's that?

>> It doesn't thrive if you move it.

>> Oh, it thrives but everybody else dies.

>> Oh [ __ ]

>> But you know, you can only take so much

from the back of your head and move it

to the top of your head. That's why a

lot of guys with hair transplants look

goofy cuz you have like this strong

hairline in the front and it goes back

like that and then everything else looks

like chaos.

>> Oh, that sucks. You know what I take for

my hair?

>> What do you take

>> among other things?

>> Uh, Viagra.

>> Viagra.

>> Yeah, actually it's I shouldn't say the

brand name.

>> That's why I take it for my hair.

>> That's what I tell everybody. That is

true. It's low dose. 7 milligrams a day

of tadelopil

>> and it's good for a lot of things. A lot

of things. I know it's good for

endurance.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I cuz I know athletes who take it

for endurance, they probably take it to

[ __ ] too. Let's not kid ourselves.

>> Well, it's a nice it's a nice benefit.

Um when a scient a paper just came out

about its role in preventing cancer. Uh

I tweeted what what's not to love. It

people love that tweet. But the point is

actually last week they found that these

drugs in mice and seemingly in people

who take these drugs are actually

resistant to can certain types of

cancers like head and neck cancer.

>> So they're turning out to be really

important

>> blood flow.

>> Well two reasons um that are not related

to blood flow but they're related to

what's called nitric oxide signaling

which is what helps dilate blood vessels

in all your body including your penis.

The other two mechanisms, one showed

that toalophil is good for uh exposing

the tumor to the immune system. There

are uh certain cells uh called um MDSC's

that protect the tumor from getting

attacked and the drug stops that. So now

the tumors shrink in mice and seemingly

in people in tumors. And then the second

mechanism is really interesting. It

seems to this was sedanaphil. This is

now Viagra found that the cancer is uh

th a lot of cancers thrive on

cholesterol and this blocks the ability

of cancer cells to use cholesterol.

>> I thought they thrived on glucose

>> that too. Exactly. Right. So you want to

be in ketosis if you've got a tumor in

general. So fasting is good. But now it

looks like

>> these ED drugs are might be good for it

as well.

>> Fascinating. And wasn't um I think

Viagra was a s it was an accident,

right? Wasn't wasn't it a blood pressure

medication?

>> It's a good story. It was for angina,

right? It was for your for your heart.

Um but the story goes that women

especially and and the men didn't want

to give up the drugs that they had left

over. [laughter]

It it was amazing. It was I think it was

75% had a positive reaction for

erections and without it 22. So, it's

it's very clear that it was working.

>> Interesting. And so, uh so how does it

help hair?

>> Uh well, we don't know for sure, but

there's a lot of evidence that part of

the reason hair dies out and stops

growing is a lack of blood flow. And the

minoxidil that people put on their hair

helps with that.

>> Right. Interesting. And then DHT

inhibitors.

>> Exactly.

>> Also help.

>> That'd be dueide. Uh people can take

orally.

>> Yeah. The problem with that is uh my

friend had severe depression when he

took that.

>> Yeah.

>> It really [ __ ] him up and he didn't

realize cuz it he didn't understand that

that was the he was like what is wrong

with me? And he was getting suicidal and

then he got off of it and it just went

away and he's like oh my god I can't

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>> Yeah. Well, I I I'm taking it for a

number of reasons, including my hair and

my prostate. See if I can keep it from

growing. But, uh, fortunately, I haven't

had that side effect. But, everything

>> it depends, right? It varies

biologically depending on the person.

>> Yeah. It's important when either of us

says that drug's good, that drug's bad,

people realize that you have to test it,

see, and with doctor's supervision.

>> Yeah, that was where where I was going

to get to was like because different

medications have different reactions or

different people's reactions to

medications, they they vary quite

wildly. So, like before you

make this public, like how how do you

determine whether or not this is going

to be safe for a wide variety of people

to reverse aging?

>> Oh, my drug um our drug that we're

making. Well, we will test it on a lot

of people before it goes out into the

the wide world.

>> And you've started testing it on people

so far?

>> Yeah, there are people right now who

have this these genes in their eye. And

how's it going?

>> Uh, I'm not allowed to say, but

>> can you wink twice if it's great?

>> Um, I would say that everything's uh on

target.

>> Okay.

>> Um,

>> that's good to hear.

>> Nothing bad to report.

>> Nothing bad to report.

>> Yeah, I think those might be the words

I'm allowed to say.

>> And is that the only clinical trials

you've used with any of these

applications for for humans?

>> So far, that was the first glaucoma and

also sudden blindness. Um, it's called

Nion, which is now twice as more

prevalent because of the GLP1 drugs.

>> Really,

>> it's not well known. Obviously,

companies don't want to talk about it,

but yes, sudden blindness has doubled

seemingly because of these meds. So, you

have to

>> Holy [ __ ] Sudden blindness has doubled

because of GLP1s

>> due to Nion, which is like a stroke in

your eye. And then your other eye can

go, which is pretty scary. and there's

nothing you can do about it. Hopefully,

our drug does work for those people.

>> And well, obviously correlation does not

equal causation, but it seems to be

>> Yeah, there's a a scientist at Harvard,

you could look up his work, um Joe

Rizzo. It looks like it's repeatable

across the planet.

>> Wow, that's terrible because there's so

many people out there that are just

telling everyone they should get on

GLP1s. Yeah,

>> I've seen that like by online people

like online podcasters saying everyone

should get on GLP1. This is a

groundbreaking technology. This is

amazing. It's going to transform

society. I'm like,

we just started taking these. The [ __ ]

are you saying?

>> Yeah, it's not risk- free. Same with ED

drugs.

>> Here goes. Recent study suggests that a

potential rare link between GLP-1

receptor agonist medication such as

ompic waggoi blah blah blah and a

condition called nonarteritic

anterior

what's that word iskeemic

>> iskeemic optic neuropathy

>> an eye stroke can cause sudden painless

loss of vision in one eye while absolute

risk remains very low anyone experienced

sudden vision changes should seek

emergency metal medical eval valuation

immediately. Well, very low is like

>> it's still in 10,000 people.

>> One in 10,000.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's

>> Oh, no. Total of 10,000.

>> Oh, total of 10,000 so far for how many

people are taking this stuff?

>> I think it's pretty

>> The drugs were 68.6

times more likely to develop this and

eight times more likely to develop

diabetic. What is that?

>> We only got the blurb.

Oh my god. Then wow.

>> Yeah, man. These [clears throat] things

are just they're just rolling out and

the people that are like super

enthusiastic and also they have some

sort of a financial interest in

promoting these things which often times

does seem to be the case with a lot of

these people. They have either stock in

these companies or some sort of a stake

in them.

>> Uh yeah, it's true. Though I will I will

say to counter that that the GLP-1 drugs

have probably saved millions of lives

already and they're pretty common. I

think it's 10% of people are trying them

and 25% want to.

>> Yeah. I mean they don't work for

everybody. I have a good friend of mine

that had a terrible reaction from it and

he was hospitalized and

>> Oh no. But I know other people where

it's completely transformed their life

and they've lost a ton of weight and

particularly people that just for

whatever reason the food addiction was

so incredibly strong that whatever their

constitution the way they're the way

they're designed the way they're built

the way they've evolved as a human being

they weren't capable of overcoming it.

They take the GLP1s and then they sort

of start getting moving and then they

lose all the weight. They start feeling

better. they start making a lot of other

positive changes. You get that momentum

which I I always talk about is which is

one of the most important things for

transforming your life. Everyone wants

to talk about discipline. I think

discipline is the primary that's the

main engine. But one of the things that

comes along with any kind of an exercise

program or changing your life program

where you you start getting positive

results is momentum. And momentum is

absolutely huge. Thank you.

>> Because then you start feeling soant

this is good. So, I think GLP1s are

fantastic for getting people going.

>> Yes. Everybody should hear this. It's

really important. I'll give you my

example. It's a classic case. I couldn't

fast for more than about a day. I wanted

to do more. I know that 3 days fasting

is good. A week can be even better, but

I couldn't do it. I was I don't have a

lot of willpower when it comes to this

kind of stuff.

I tried a Jelp1 receptor agonist. I gave

it and it was easy. I didn't even feel

like I needed to snack at night, which

is one of the things that I and many

people suffer from. But the fact that I

could do it, I went off the drug. I

didn't need it. But now I can fast for I

went for two weeks uh in a couple of

months ago.

>> It's easy now. I now that I know that I

can do it mentally, it's not hard at

all.

>> The momentum.

>> Exactly. I know what's possible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. Um, you

are you still on a plant-based diet?

>> Mostly.

>> Yeah. I what I had I just had a a

conversation with a friend of mine about

this. I don't know how much of the

information that he was telling me was

totally accurate, but what he was saying

was that um he was told before he did

fasting that one of the be a runner, he

said one of the best ways to get into

fasting is to get your body into ketosis

first. He said, and what he thinks is

that a carnivore-based diet and what he

was told was a good way if you could do

that for a few weeks, it mitigates your

appetite. Like one of the things that

happens with a lot of these diets that

uh regulate insulin resistance is that

when you get used to consuming just fats

and protein, you don't have the kind of

hunger pangs that you have with

carbohydrates. Like when I if I go in a

bad streak and I'm eating pizza and

pasta and and I've done that in the

past. I don't really do that much and

all unless I'm on vacation.

>> In the in the past though, when I would

get hungry, I would get crazy hungry.

Like I I've got to eat now. I don't get

that at all anymore because I'm mostly

on a carnivore-based diet. Mostly what I

eat the like you look at the bulk of my

diet, it's meat and fermented

vegetables. It's meat and like kimchi

and sauerkraut and stuff along those

lines. And when I eat like that, my

hunger is very easy to control. And I've

gone 24 hours like like it's nothing,

not eating. It's like not a problem at

all. But that's the most I've ever

fasted is 24 hours.

>> Okay. Well, see if you can go for three.

Um it's really worth it. You feel really

great. Um ketosis is one.

>> That's what everybody says.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you go into what's

called deep cleansing. It's called um

chaperone mediated autophagy or CMA and

a friend of mine in New York uh Maria

Corvo studies this and it cleans out a

lot of the old proteins in your body. So

ketosis doesn't just make you feel good,

you're actually renewing your protein in

your body and rebuilding it. And so I I

do that as a as an anti-aging thing.

>> What I find is the biggest benefit is uh

mental acuity. It it's a gi it has a

giant impact when I stick to the diet in

terms of my ability to form sentences

like recall information and just be

present in in podcasts.

>> Yeah. So in in in my podcast it's what

you do is really quite difficult. It it

you make it look easy. So when I'm when

I'm doing my podcast and often it's solo

so it's challenging. Um I forget things.

I have to remember hundreds of papers

for these things. They're quite hard. Um

either I'm going to fast and if I don't

remember to fast. Um I did an

experiment. I took some ketones. You can

drink these things, you know, right? So

>> there's the one uh the little drink I

think was ketone IQ. Ketone IQ.

>> Yeah. Fantastic stuff.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I use that.

>> I love that stuff. I do that. I take

that before I do UFC broadcasts a lot of

times. Yeah.

>> Um I actually took some before

>> because one that's great before podcasts

as well. One one of one more difficult

things that I do is the UFC commentary

because it's six hours

>> Uhhuh. Six hours of talking on air live.

Wow.

>> Yeah. And about fights and and I'm also

recalling fights and I'm also I'm seeing

positions. So I have to remember in my

mind how this is finished because like

in jiu-jitsu there might be I don't know

how many positions there are. There's

thousands and there's moves where I'm

like what is he doing? What is he doing?

Oh. Oh. Oh that's that that's the

provian necktie. I'm I'm looking at his

arms a bit. Like your brain is f I am

exhausted at the end of 6 hours and

[ __ ] starving. Like after the UFC is

over, I can eat so much food. It's I'm

so hungry.

>> But you take a little drink.

>> I take a little ketone. Little ketone

IQ. I take uh neutropics. I drink this

stuff. My friend Derek makes this is

Gorilla Mind. This is a um a neutropic.

>> Oh, I got

>> So it's a neutropic cocktail with uh um

uh caffeine in it. This stuff's really

good for a podcast. I also take Alpha

Brain. Alpha Brain Black Label is

phenomenal for that. There's a bunch of

different ones that I take. Uh the gum

neurogum. Neurogum is excellent for

that, too. But I just do [ __ ]

everything I can to maximize.

>> That's how you do it. All right. Secret

is now out. All right. It But what you

do is amazing. And I thought you were on

medapanyl or something.

>> No, I've I've taken that before in the

past. But uh the problem with that stuff

is I think I like it too much and I want

to take it all the time. I you know when

I used to take that if I had a gig in

San Diego and I drive home uh after the

gig and it was like you know one o'clock

in the morning when I'm done and then

I'm like I'll just go home and it's only

two and a half hours and I start making

the drive and you just get so tired. But

if I take New Vigil or Provigil before I

do that I would be able to drive no

problem. Put a book on tape on

>> what's that?

>> Can you sleep after that?

>> Oh yeah. It doesn't seem to affect your

ability to sleep which is really

interesting. It's not like caffeine. Do

you do it? Do you take it at all?

>> Uh armadapanil for talks when I'm you

know traveling.

>> Does it help you?

>> Definitely.

>> Would it like in what way?

>> Um it it gets rid of my jet lag and I

can focus.

>> My brain often uh is either scattered or

filled with facts that I causes me like

now to not be able to talk properly. But

if I'm on it, which I'm not,

>> I'm I'm on point every time.

>> For me, the best thing for jet lag is

exercise. There's something about rigor

rigorous exercise. It doesn't even have

to be long. It just has to be where my

heart rate gets really elevated like

above 150 beats per minute for 15 20

minutes. Like I have to really go hard

where I'm sweaty and breathing heavy you

know especially if I could jack it up to

like 180 190 like I'm doing like Tabata

sprints on an aine bike. That kind of

stuff completely resets me.

>> Yeah. hard kettle bell workouts. Like

I'll do like a hard series where minimal

amount of rest in between. So I'm really

pushing it. Once I relax, I'm back. It's

like it to it whatever it is where your

body just needs to like shake it up and

like get all of it out of your system.

It's like now I feel completely normal.

>> Yeah. Well, you might remember last time

we talked about hormesis. Yes. What

doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And

that's what you're doing. You're putting

your body into survival mode. So, one of

the reasons I eat mostly plants, why I

take enma and these other molecules is

to mimic that. I don't work out like you

do. Um, I should, but I don't. And, uh,

>> why don't you?

>> Uh, I think partly because I tell myself

I'm too busy, [laughter]

which is [ __ ] Uh, I need a I need a

partner uh who will motivate me. I think

that would help.

>> Maybe just get a trainer.

>> That's that's a solution.

>> You got some cheddar. Get a trainer.

>> I got some share. I was that money.

>> Money. Yeah. No, I can definitely afford

[laughter] one. Uh, yeah. No, you know,

it's on me. I actually I I will own that

that I have to get I just was explaining

this to my friend last night who's like,

I got to start working. I'm like, just

get a trainer. Get a trainer, someone

who's good, and that way they'll develop

a program for you. All you have to do is

just show up and do what they tell you