Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> What's going on, man?

>> This is Joe Rogan.

>> How you feeling?

>> I feel incredible, man. I feel

>> You must be

>> It's been one hell of a week. It's been

crazy.

>> It has to be the craziest week of your

life, right? or up to it by I mean this

is this is pretty pretty up there. It's

been some crazy weeks.

>> So talk me through this. When did you

get the uh the offer for the fight? How

long out?

>> So they had mentioned possibly me

fighting him on the White House. They

asked me

>> that was the the the ali reached out to

me. He's like, "Hey, like they they're

talking about possibly getting you on

the White House. They know you're a

Marine and whatnot. Uh they want Gable

Stevenson." And I was like, "Fucking I

don't care. I've been watching Gable

since he he was coming up on the

regional scene since you were talking

about him and I everyone was all hyped

about him and so I kind of already knew

we were going to cross paths but it

wasn't until um I was requesting to get

on the LA card. I heard they were coming

to LA and I kept saying hey I want LA I

want LA and I just like all right you

got LA you're fighting Gable.

>> So there was a conversation about the

White House card. So this is June.

That's when it first came up. And so how

did it wind up taking place in

September?

>> Uh well I just never heard back. They

talked about it. They were like would

you take it? And I was like, "Sure." And

I think I think maybe they were trying

to get Jones on there too, possibly. I

think that might have been what it was

that

>> I think Dana was hesitant.

>> Yeah.

>> To get John on there.

>> Yeah. And and so I think it was like a

oh, if I'm not going and maybe Gabe was

I don't know what it was, but they just

I just That was the first time I was

approached like, "Hey, would you be open

to fighting him on the White House?" And

I was like, "Of course, fuck."

>> And so how long out did they tell you

about the LA card? uh about six weeks,

but I had already been in camp because I

was supposed to fight Taiu Ivasa and I

had to pull out because my nose got

broken in that camp. So, I was basically

in in the camp for the tie fight and

then I went straight into that into the

the next camp as soon as I got cleared

to start sparring and and stuff. But I

was still training the whole time. I was

running. I was I went full [ __ ] I I

retained my seed. I was [ __ ]

>> Did you really?

>> Yeah, bro. I went full eight weeks. No

no no no no jerk out, no sex, no

nothing. I went full like marine mode.

That's why you guys saw that that mat on

the ground the in the studio was because

I was like was like really [ __ ] going

to I got I end up getting air mattress

after I texted Strickland cuz he's like

and um

>> you were sleeping on a mat. Yeah. Tell

people about that.

>> Well, basically because I I I have um

obviously my all my finances are out

there already. I could I didn't have

anything in my name. So I've been I've

been bouncing around from Fighter

Houses. There's Fighter House LV they

started out and um there's like 40 bucks

a room you get. And I was also staying

in the casinos [ __ ] gambling, doing a

bunch of dumb [ __ ] And um stayed in my

car a few times, bouncing back forth

with my mom. It was just a a little bit

of a chaotic situation. And uh I got the

spot. I I got a front from my

management. They they gave me four grand

cuz I I was basically was in California

and I stayed out there with my mom and I

had to come back out here for the camp

and I was like, "Hey, I need funds. Can

you guys give me?" And uh they fronted

me four grand on my purse and they said,

"Hey, um get get whatever you want." I

mean, they weren't very involved like if

I'm being honest. I kind of had to

figure it out on my own. Like and um

yeah, I had a friend. He got me a sub

lease, got me a spot, and I just [ __ ]

>> Well, it's such a crazy rocky story.

>> I know, man. That feels like [ __ ]

movie. Like some I'm saying it and I

don't even know like I'm like, "Bro,

like people aren't going to believe this

[ __ ] Like I got to [ __ ] show the

receipts, you know? Like I'm going to

show you some [ __ ] some shit." I

mean, I've never experienced something

like that, but it has to be like right

now even. It's hard to believe that you

did what you did.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I I I I like believed I

was going to win. Like I was telling

myself, but it was I believed it was

going to be a war. I believed it was

going to be my whole game plan was like

he he sure he might get the takedown.

You're going to stay in his [ __ ]

face. I was I was screaming the [ __ ]

affirm the Jon Jones speech when he's

like [ __ ] when he told DC and he was

all like there's nothing you could do to

stop me from coming after you round

after round with the most malicious

techniques I know you will lose this

fight Gable Stevenson you will lose this

fight and I will and I was just like

just just telling myself that I was

going to go through hell for this you

know because all my previous fights it

was first round knockouts all my

victories first round knockouts and it

kind of gave me the delusion that I'm

just touch guys and they're going to

fall but then when I got to the UFC like

I had that that loss with Taffa and I

had Aspen. I [ __ ] kept cracking him.

He wouldn't fall. And then um I kind of

started doubting my power a little bit.

I kind of started like questioning like,

"Hey, like [ __ ] can I do this?" And

so like when I just hit him with that

left hook and he fell, I was like

I started cussing. I jumped on. I was

[ __ ] bro. I was like, "What the [ __ ]

is going on, man?"

>> You were uh he was a minus 2400

favorite.

>> Yeah.

The disrespect.

>> Was it 2400 or?

>> Yeah, it was.

>> That's what it was. Okay. I just want to

be really clear about that. That's a

crazy number as

>> for heavyweight. For heavyweight, it

might be the biggest at least bookmaker

odds. It might be the biggest upset in

the history of the sport.

>> That's what they're saying.

>> Yeah. I mean, even with Holly Holm and

Ronda Rousey, it was just like

>> Holly Holm was dangerous. She was a

multiple time world kickboxing champion,

multiple time world boxing champion. You

know, she was a legitimate striker.

that, you know, I could see Holly being,

you know, a 10 to one dog or something

like that, but this was Yeah.

>> And I think the fact I was coming off of

two losses like

>> uh like, bro, I lost my discipline a

lot, you know, coming up grinding for

this and uh

>> here it is. Let's watch it again.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you just know it's real.

>> BOOM.

>> IT'S OVER.

>> OH MY GOODNESS.

>> OH MY GOD. ONE LEFT.

>> That's me.

>> Oh my god.

>> Oh my goodness.

>> Unbelievable. Look at that game. Good

night kick.

>> One more time.

>> Boom. Oh, the way the head snaps back

too.

>> Oh,

>> what did it feel like when you're

standing there holding your arms up?

Were you like in space? Were you in

another galaxy?

>> Everything just felt like so euphor like

even like I haven't seen the clips. I

remember I I shook Joan's hand and his

hand before they left, but like everyone

was saying like, "Are you sure you did

that?" Because like I I vividly remember

like before they walked out and and

everyone started booing like I shook

their hand. Uh I shook his like that was

it. I didn't say nothing. And um but

like bro everything just feels like I

haven't even gotten a chance to digest

it. Like I've been just going this whole

week like doing interviews after

interviews and Zoom and it's like I'm so

exhaust like I just want to go to a

mountain or to the desert and [ __ ]

take some mushrooms with my dog and just

[ __ ] like process what the [ __ ] is

going on, man. That probably might be a

good idea too so you can stay on the

course, you know, because one of the

problems with like a big event or a big

moment is you can be defined by that big

event and big moment and that big moment

can be like a centerpiece in your life

instead of the path, right? So the path

you're on is getting better as an MMA

fighter, achieving like world class

status, fighting for a title eventually.

That's the path.

>> Is it though, Joe?

>> Yeah, why not?

>> Is it? Well, that's why I want to ask

you because like I I mean, bro, if you

can do that,

>> everyone's making it seem like this is

just a [ __ ] lucky punch, one shot.

And like my So, this is my thing is I've

always take been taking my journey fight

like I like I got out the Marine Corps

and I was like, hey, like I want to be a

UFC fighter and like it wasn't like, oh,

I want to be a champion, you know? It

was just like I just wanted to be in the

organization and wear the uniform and

just be able be able to [ __ ] say I

did that. And the fact that I just lost

like those two times like [ __ ] like they

gave me the uniform but it didn't feel

like it. And so now like to do this the

people are saying possibly the biggest

upset in history [ __ ] in my home like

[ __ ] against all odds. I'm like bro

like it like can I beat that? Like do I

you leave the table when you're up?

That's what they say, you know? Like

[ __ ] like

>> are you thinking about doing that? Are

you thinking about leaving the table?

I'm I'm I'm told I'm not going I told

Micah the psych at the the PI. I told my

Sergey, my training partner. I told

Gokore. I told all these guys. I was

like, "Hey, bro. If I win this fight,

the like the way I'm visualizing, I like

I might be good with that because this

is [ __ ] like that was it, you know?"

And I don't I don't know. Like

>> just cuz it was such a big moment.

>> Just the No, it's the fact of what I had

to go through cuz like, brother, I've

had zero sponsors. I got zero promo. I

got zero like any kind of like support

throughout this whole thing. Like even

like with the coaching, you know, like

my corner like I was scrambling to

figure that out, you know, and it was

just like I had to beg for so much

[ __ ] help throughout this process. It

just made me [ __ ] like it was just

put a little sour taste in my bro like

[ __ ] like for what? Like and then on

top of that I got [ __ ] CT scan.

They're saying I got some [ __ ] brain

matter and [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] stitched up

from head to toe. I got [ __ ] all

types of injuries. Like and I'm like bro

what am I doing it for? just [ __ ] for

more money

>> for for for a belt like what what am I

doing for that's why I I'm trying to

figure out the answers myself.

>> That's interesting. Well, if that's the

case, then definitely go take mushrooms

with your dog.

>> That's why I'm like maybe you can help

me advise me here.

>> The decision is always going to be

entirely yours because it's dependent

entirely upon who you are, where you

are, and I don't know that. I don't know

where you're at in your life. I don't

know where you're at with your mind. I

don't know. There's nothing wrong with

you walking away right now if you choose

to do that. Um, so you have to think

about it. And I think a moment like

that, like I said, was so big, you have

to let it settle before you decide what

you're going to do. There's a lot of

people um there there's there's a bunch

of different ways to approach fighting.

And I think one of the one of the worst

ways is to chase glory, you know,

because glory does come to the greats.

in and in in that glory, you know, the

glory that Justin Gatechi got when he

beat Ilia Tapora at the White House.

>> No one's ever going to experience that.

The one of the greatest moments in the

history of combat sports, right?

>> That was my logic, too, cuz like when I

saw that the Gachi upset, I was like,

bro, like what more do you have to

prove? Like he just shocked the [ __ ]

world.

>> Yeah, he could he could certainly walk

especially Gachi. He's had this insane

career in incredible career. He could

definitely walk away now and be one of

the all-time greats. But Connor for

instance, like Connor's last fight, like

it seemed like Connor was doing it to

show that he could still do it. Seemed

and I don't know, you know, I didn't

talk to him. I haven't had a

conversation with him as a person,

>> but it seemed like he wanted to be on

top again. He wanted to show that he

could go out there and still beat a

world-class fighter like M Max Holloway

and just show that he could do it. And

you got to wonder, is that the best

motivation for a guy that's worth half a

billion dollars and is [ __ ] living in

the lap of luxury? And

>> no, he's just chasing the high. He's

chasing. He's like, he's like was like,

I just want to go out on top, going on

top.

>> He's chasing the high

>> versus is he chasing the dream? So like

when he knocked out Jose Aldo, he was

chasing the dream. He was a juggernaut.

He was storming through the division. He

was knocking everybody out. He looked

like this guy that had this phenomenal

talent and this special charisma and he

looked like a guy who is chasing this

this thing, this dream, this dream of

becoming a world champion. So then you

achieve it and then I think the big

derailment was the Floyd Mayweather

fight, right? He leaves MMA, trains

boxing for a while, has a great

performance against Floyd Mayweather,

one of the greatest boxers of all time,

does 10 rounds with him, which is

[ __ ] insane.

>> Did you see my video with him before the

fight?

>> No. Oh, I went viral with with with with

Floyd. Yeah. I ran into him at Lifetime

and I was like really cuz cuz I started

promoting myself. So like that was the

issue. Like I kept seeing these collabs

and these promos with with Gable and I

was like, "Bro, what the [ __ ] man?"

Like why is no one pushing me? So I

started like just going outside the PI

and I was like I did my own promo and

then like just the odds like the next

day I ran into Floyd at the [ __ ] at

the Lifetime and I was like, "Hey man,

let me get a quick video [ __ ] uh to

promote my fight and whatnot." So uh

it's just ironic you say Floyd.

>> That's funny. That's funny. Well, that's

just to be expected. You got to realize

Gable is first of all Olympic gold

medalist, one of the greatest

heavyweight wrestlers in the United

States has ever produced,

>> right? And then he goes on to be

undefeated in MMA, wins that fight in

dirty boxing. He's an athletic freak and

he's being chain trained by Jon Jones.

>> But who did he beat on the regional

scene? That's what didn't impress me. He

he got wheel kicked in Mexico. The guy

was like 1 and0 that he was being like

cuz I was 4 and0 on the regional scene,

too. Then I got

>> You're 100% correct in that regard. But

he couldn't get any fights. Nobody any

good wanted to fight him because he's

Gable. Because he's this insane freak

wrestler and they want to win and they

want to make their way through, you

know, whatever regional circuit it is,

get a really good record and get some

experience before they get into the UFC.

They don't want to get flatlined. They

don't want to get beat up and smashed.

Yeah. They want, you know, they want and

a good manager treats their fighters

that way. A good manager says, "Listen,

you're not ready for that yet. We're

going to get you this guy. Don't get

beat by him yet. you you can eventually

beat him, but we have to develop these

skills. We have to develop these

techniques. We have to get you some

seasoning. You have to get some hard

fights against some really tough guys so

you know what the the [ __ ] basement

feels like. You got to know what it's

like to be in the dungeon. You know,

>> he wasn't in the dungeon.

>> Wasn't in the dungeon.

>> They were [ __ ] coddling him and

pampering him. Well, I I think also when

you're that good of an athlete and

you've had that much success in

wrestling, which is, you know, this

celebrated incredible sport, and then

you enter into MMA with all that hype

and fanfare, you start to believe that

you are special and you're invincible

and and you're not a regular human being

with with very good skills. Cuz that's

what he is, a regular human being with

very good skills.

>> And you showed it. You showed it with a

[ __ ] perfect left hook when you

stepped outside and then it was

everything in that left hook. It was

pretty. It was technical. It was

perfect. And he was reaching at the

time, too. So,

>> and that Well, that was the other thing.

He he was closing his eyes. And that was

I saw on the replay. And that comes

because he isn't smart enough.

>> He he hasn't had that experience of

[ __ ] being in the fire over and over

again.

>> He's only been striking for like a year

and a half. That's That's why that's why

when they asked me, they tried to make

it seem like I was talking [ __ ] They're

like, "Are you impressed by Gay?" I was

like, "No, I'm not impressed." Like,

"What what are you not impressed about?"

I'm like, "What the [ __ ] What? He's an

Olympic gold medalist, but what? This is

fighting and we're going to fight."

>> Yeah.

>> Well, his first fight, he got tagged a

bunch, the first fight in the UFC, and

that guy fought well. He he hit him with

some good shots. That guy was there to

win. He just he just, you know, was

overwhelmed. Gable got him. But that

[ __ ] left hook changed the landscape

of the universe, dude. That left hook

changed changed your life. Changed the

world.

>> Yeah. There was so many people that even

before the fight, they're like, if you

beat Gable, I'm going to name my kid

after you. Like, I'm putting my mortgage

down. Like, bro, like like I was like, I

don't know if these comments are real,

but like there was so many people

messaging me and commenting like and

even like with the press conference,

like they were telling me like like

please bring up please bring up his

past. Please bring up his past, you

know? And I was all like, "Shit, but

[ __ ] I fought for my freedom of speech,

man. I don't give a [ __ ] I'll say what

I what I want, you know?" And

>> yeah, it's a lot. Like the whole the

whole buildup to a fight is so much.

There's so much talking. There's so many

people talking at you and there's so

many narratives. There's so many pe like

you could get your brain really [ __ ]

scrambled during those things, including

him like believing the hype or anybody

believing the hype.

>> And what was crazy was we weren't even

supposed to be on the press conference

or even on the main card until Ortega

fell out. And that was like that felt

like divine intervention, bro. Cuz I was

just like,

>> oh like like I thought I was I was going

to get the press conference and when I

got to fight week it was like there

there was I wasn't on there and then

that next day they were like oh no

you're you're you're main card you're

going you're going to the press

conference. So maybe that I wouldn't

have gotten in his head if I didn't get

in the press conference, you know,

because that was that was strategic.

Like I I was saying in interviews before

like that's psychological warfare. Oh,

it's fair love and war. And it's like if

if you don't know how to handle that, I

mean I like like I said, I just brought

brought things to light. Like yeah,

>> that was all I did. And um if you if you

can let that get under your skin, like

>> who knows if it let it get under his

skin. I mean, even if there was nothing

going on, you might have still hit him

with that exact same punch. I think

there's a there's a gap in experience

and there's a gap in striking ability. I

mean, he obviously is an incredible

athlete and he's very good at being the

hammer. You know, he can unload

combinations on guys. We've seen it, you

know, we saw it in Dirty Boxing, but

striking, you know, as well as anybody.

It is a [ __ ] complicated thing that

takes a long time to figure out. There's

a lot of elements to it. There's a lot

of knowledge, foot placement, where to

be, where not to be, what to do, what

not to do. You get caught doing

something. You need a really good coach

to explain to you how you got caught and

never get caught like that again because

you need to do this or you need to do

that. Make sure your foot is outside of

the line. Make sure your head's off the

center line. There's a bunch of

different [ __ ] that takes [ __ ]

forever for your brain to absorb and

then absorb to the point where you can

it just memory muscle memory inside of

chaos and combat.

>> I I truly felt in flow state when I have

like I I was not thinking like I didn't

go out like oh I'm going to throw the

two or the the whole game plan was like

don't overrespect the wrestling and put

hands on this [ __ ] Like that

was that was that was the game plan.

Like like obviously like I knew like he

might get the takedown but like I said I

was just telling myself you're going to

get up. You're going to get up. You're

going to [ __ ] stay in his face over

and over again.

>> I think a big flaw that he did in both

the first fight and the fight with you

is I don't even think he was thinking

about taking you down.

>> Yeah,

>> which is really crazy.

>> He's going to be shooting his next

fight. That's for sure.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, I

would imagine. I would imagine

I would imagine that would be a good

idea. I mean, it's when it's your number

one skill set. It's crazy. It's like

Wonderboy deciding not to kick. Like

what? But it's also cuz like he was

getting praised like he like he he was

constantly being told like he's the

greatest thing. He's knocking these guys

out. Even Dana like in after the press

conference and in his first fight, he

was just like praising him like oh like

he's he's striking with guys, knocking

guys out when he could be using his

wrestling and like I think it just like

got to him. And when I when I knew I had

him was when I saw he booked that RAF

fight during during the fight camp. He

went and did an RAF fight like a few

weeks uh RAF wrestling match be a few

weeks before our fight. I was like,

"This [ __ ] is not taking me

seriously. This [ __ ] going to

book [ __ ] rather." And I'm over there

getting my ass beat [ __ ] every day

[ __ ] with Sergey Spivok. Uh uh Bloy

was was working with me. [ __ ] Wan

Coutaba like and uh and and I had to

wear my my head gear cuz my nose was

broken. That that and that thing was

like suffocating me and these guys were

just putting me in the worst positions

over and over again. Starting from

[ __ ] bottom, [ __ ] pick me up. Matt

Return, slam me back down,

>> brother. That's what it felt.

I love Rocky, man. And like

>> you're a Rocky story, man.

>> You are a real life Rocky story. 100%,

man.

>> It feels It feels real.

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details. That but even Rocky didn't end

that way. Like step in, boom, 12

seconds.

>> Crazy, man. Crazy.

>> Really felt like it was it was just

karma and divine intervention cuz the

way he was disrespecting me too, man. He

call me a coward, saying like he's the

reason that I'm there and [ __ ] he uh

my hotel room is paid because of Gable

Steven. What's up with him talking in

third person? I know maybe he was your

boy and he was he was I saw him on here

before, but this dude's talking about in

third person all the time. Like, what

the [ __ ] is up with that? The third

person stuff is very weird. You know who

used to do that, who I love, who used to

do that all the time, is Roy Jones.

>> Yeah,

>> Roy Jones Jr. is going to do what Roy

Jones Jr. wants to do.

>> Is he here right now? Is Roy in the room

with us? That's a strange thing that

people do, that third person thing. It

is odd. It's It's like an elitist thing,

you know?

>> Yeah. like he's he like I said he just

think he's all that. So I'm just I'm

glad I could bring him back down to

reality because like

>> it's probably good for him too if he

decides to actually continue and pursue

his career and become a world champion.

That might be a blessing in disguise

because it was a fight that allowed him

to recognize that the skills that he has

in wrestling other people have similar

skills in striking and similar skills in

all the other aspects of MMA. And then

you know you there's no shortcuts. Just

because you're a really good wrestler

doesn't mean you're an elite kickboxer.

You know, it just doesn't it doesn't

translate. You have to learn those

things. Yes, sir.

>> And you know,

>> you a guy becomes amazing because of his

accomplishments, but before those

accomplishments, you're not necessarily

amazing at

>> and his accomplishments were all in a

completely different discipline. I mean,

it translates. It's one of the most

important disciplines, probably the most

important discipline for MMA if you use

it right. If you use it, it's probably

like the ability to take a guy down and

control a guy, it stifles all striking,

right? If a guy, if he just decided to

avoid you standing up and then shoot and

he got you down, we're talking about a

whole different fight, right? 100%.

>> Yeah, but when you get it in your head,

>> ain't no rematch, though, buddy.

Everyone's like, "What's next? When's

the re

[ __ ] you?" You going to sleep with that

[ __ ] Motherfucker's not getting

his dick up for [ __ ] weeks, man. I

took his soul. You heard the whole David

Gogggins when he said that [ __ ] He's

like, "Yeah, you're not going to [ __ ]

live with that for a little bit, bro."

>> Well, psychologically, it's why would

you why would you schedule a rematch

quickly, if at all? Like, there's no

reason. First of all, on paper, it's 12

seconds. It's not It's not like a

controversial decision, right?

Controversial decisions war in a

rematch. You know, really good war goes

to the judges, could have gone either

way. That makes sense.

>> 12 second knockouts don't get rematches.

That doesn't make any sense. That makes

zero sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

He's going to have to figure out why

he's deciding to strike and then really

tighten up his striking. He's going to

have to watch that film footage and see

what he did wrong.

>> You know, there's a bunch of different

striking analysts have broken down the

video and you know, you could see you

did everything right and he didn't. Real

simple, you know, and he's a human and

you're a big [ __ ] and you got a

big [ __ ] with a big left hook

and you land that on virtually any human

being alive. You catch them on the chin

like that where their head snaps back

like that.

>> It's like 10 pounds of pressure. That's

all you need to tip the chin, right?

>> Was a lot more than 10.

>> I mean, he snapped his head back.

>> But, you know, listen, guys have come

back from knockouts like that and become

all-time greats. Look at Michael

Bisping. Michael Bisping gets flatlined

by Henderson and then goes on to become

an all-time great and wins the

middleweight title, knocks out Luke

Rockwell, defended it against Henderson.

And I said it in my postfight interview

like I I I kept it classy. I was like,

"Hey, look, like this is going to make

him better." Like there's a but like

right now I'm on my victory lap and like

I'm going to talk some [ __ ] cuz the

[ __ ] disrespected the [ __ ] his

whole team disrespect like Jones driving

around with him in the Mercedes like

tonight we collect a head, you know?

Like bro what? Like come on Jones like

you of all people know not to

underestimate someone. Like come on man.

Like

>> well John's a different guy. He's a

different

>> but they made him they made him think

that he was next Jon Jones.

>> I know. And Jon Jones is a different

[ __ ] I've studied Jon Jones my whole

[ __ ] life, man. Like like you saw the

picture with me and him like that we

took and I was like this is going to be

I was like this is going to be my exam,

you know.

>> And um I can even show you the DMs that

I've sent I'm like [ __ ] I told him

like this was going to happen you know

for him to be there [ __ ] front row

>> and then that viral reaction of oh my

goodness.

>> It's crazy. I mean that's unreal.

>> Yeah. You can't pretend that you're the

guy that you're hanging out with. That's

that's a bad thing. Yeah, John is a very

unique athlete, though. I mean, he's

he's a one of one.

>> He's the goat.

>> I mean, what he did to serial gone, I

just watched that fight again. It's

[ __ ] insane. Serial never touched

him. He got a hold of Cirill, dragged

him to the ground, strangled him, tap

tap. That's it. That's a wrap. Walked

away, didn't get scratched.

>> Yeah.

>> And then now you have serial guns, the

heavyweight champion of the world. And

you see what he did to Pereira. You see

what he did at least in the first round

before the eye pokes to Aspenol. It's

like Sir Gan's a special athlete and Jon

made him look unspecial.

>> Yeah.

>> But Gable's not that. He's not the same

guy. He's not that guy. You know, takes

a long [ __ ] time to be Jon Jones.

Also, when Jon Jones became Jon Jones,

he became Jon Jones slowly. I mean, it

was quick in terms of like he was the

quickest ever to become Yeah. I think 22

became the youngest ever UFC champion,

but

>> but there's a long process in getting

there. like he didn't have that. He

fought Gus Mauv, he fought um he he

fought Guskov, he fought um Stefan

Bonner, he fought a bunch of guys and

started looking like like this guy must

might be something very unique. Yeah.

>> And then he beats Shogun and wins the

title and then just goes on this just

[ __ ] epic legendary tear.

>> And just the people he beat like

>> Yeah, he beat everybody. He beat

everybody and he beat everybody when he

wasn't training. I I have a a photo of

like that from that expo with he signed

with it's like Machito unconscious and

he's like like [ __ ] I've had that in

my room [ __ ] forever.

>> That was one of the coldest victories in

the history of the sport. He chokes

Macha unconscious and then drops him.

>> Yeah.

>> Just standing up. Choked him

unconscious. Dropped him and just walked

away.

>> It's [ __ ] cold.

>> Just falls down in a heap.

>> Cold, man.

>> Cold. But you know that's the problem.

you know, you're hanging out with a guy

who's the goat and you start thinking

you're the next guy. Like,

>> you might be, you could be if you do the

right things, but if you believe it

before it happens, like, you have to be

cautious, but also confident. Like,

there's this dance of the mind. There's

so much going on to be an elite fighter.

You, you know, you have to be aware that

you could look at Camaro Usman beating

Leon Edwards for four rounds. All of a

sudden, one head kick, boom, lost the

title. Never the same guy again. Yeah,

>> cuz you're human.

>> Yeah,

>> you're [ __ ] human being. Like, as

tough as Camaro is, he's a [ __ ] human

being.

>> And it's just this wild dance of

possibilities. But it's also one of the

reasons why people love the sport so

much. Like what you did elevated the

whole sport. It really did because when

you can see a guy who's a giant favorite

and everybody's thinking he is the and I

thought like this guy has a potential to

be an all-time great like he's an

Olympic gold medalist. We've seen that

before. You get a guy who's an elite

wrestler like Daniel Cormier. There's a

lot of examples of guys who elite

wrestlers who become alltime great.

Randy Couture,

>> you changed everything. Changed

everything. One Punch went boom.

>> Crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> Crazy. One P. One Punch could really

change your life. And they say, "No, I'm

>> I I feel amazing. I feel incredible.

Like just the fact I'm here." Like this

is another thing I haven't like I

learned more from your podcast than I

have the entire public education system.

Like, brother, I would sit on post cuz I

was an embassy security guard and we

would be on duty and I would just have

your podcast playing in the background

and I would listen to all your guests.

Like I started learning about the

subconscious mind like through like

Billy Carson and like another guy 19

keys uh Joe Despensza some of these and

like like all of that like it it really

has helped mold me into who I am just

like from the types like you had I don't

I don't know all the names but you had

the guests on sleep hubman like bro like

it's just so so many variables like that

you've brought that like you you are

truly like educating so many people like

with what you've done man it's [ __ ]

well I'm Happy you enjoyed it. I'm happy

it helped you and I'm happy I get to do

it.

>> The fight companions I was s I would sit

on post and [ __ ] went watch Fight

Companions and you [ __ ] Eddie Bravo

and [ __ ]

>> It's cool, man. It's [ __ ] It's

awesome.

>> It's cool that you're here right now and

in celebration, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Kind of wild.

>> Yeah, really wild.

>> So, like we were saying before, like

these big moments, they're so big they

can kind of overwhelm you. I think

you're very wise and that you want to

like let the dust settle before you do

anything.

>> Yes.

>> But just let yourself come back to

normal.

>> Yeah. Well, you you are on a [ __ ]

psychedelic roller coaster ride.

>> And I can't even chill. Like everyone's

like [ __ ] They're already texting me

like, "Oh, you went Hollywood on us."

Like, bro, what the [ __ ] bro? It's been

like 5 days, dog. He's like, "Oh, like

you switched up, man."

>> Well, people want you to switch up.

That's a narrative that you're going to

have to deal with that people want. Oh,

you [ __ ] changed. People Some people

do not want you to succeed. That is a

fact because when you succeed,

especially succeed in a spectacular way,

>> they compare themselves to you and they

fall short and they don't like it.

People do not like when people hyper

succeed. That is going to be a problem.

People want you to fall.

>> It's going to be a problem. It's a

problem with every champion, every every

celebrity, every superstar in music and

comedy and movies and acting and they

want you to fall because there's a

certain type of psychology that there's

a certain psychological mindset that

some people have where they look at

people who are doing better than them

and they compare themselves and they

want that person to fail. And so they'll

pretend you're something you're not.

They'll create narratives that aren't

real. They you win Hollywood, bro. You

[ __ ] sold out. you [ __ ] sold out

and

>> and you're going to have to deal with

that, too. But that's just [ __ ]

There's a world filled with [ __ ] and

some [ __ ] they have loud voices.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Yeah. It's okay.

>> Yeah. So, that's what I'm navigating

right now is just like trying to [ __ ]

like like a part of me is like trying to

get back to everyone, but the other part

of me is like, "Bro, like, can you just

understand?" Like even like I go from

like doing all the interviews. I had

like interviews all day and then I would

go home and like my family wants to talk

to me about what's going on and like

[ __ ] I'm like, "Bro, like I just want

to go walk my dog, man." [ __ ] like

and then I'm like walk I did the Bisbing

interview and I was like walking my dog.

He's like can like can you make sure you

have good connection? I'm like bro like

I'm walking my dog man. Y'all want the

interview or not, bro? [ __ ] you. [ __ ]

>> It's more important to walk your dog

because I'm I'm going to shout out my

dog Apollo. He's a German Shepherd, man.

Because like this dude I got I got him

when I got up boot camp. I'm sorry, out

of the Marines. And he was he's been

with me for like the past he's seven

now. He's about to be eight. And like

this dude like bro like broke like so

many meals with him. Like I moved out to

Vegas two years ago by myself. There he

is. Yeah. That's my [ __ ] boy, man.

And uh and like this dude has seen it

all, man. Like I like that like I had my

[ __ ] knee surgeries. Uh and I had to

drive myself to PT [ __ ] two days

posttop. Like nobody nobody wanted to

[ __ ] take me to the PI and [ __ ] bro.

And I was like trying to walk my dog and

[ __ ] and like all that [ __ ] that that's

why I was telling you earlier, man. And

I'm just like, bro, like it's such a

like I don't want to say a fake game,

but it's just like they only love you

when you're hot. Like when [ __ ] Ki

got knocked out by Holloway, he wasn't

[ __ ] hot. But then [ __ ] he goes

and wins this, he's hot. Then [ __ ]

Max Holloway gets knocked by Ily [ __ ]

hot. Now Strickland Chamaya [ __ ]

Pereira. It's like that's the game. It's

the hurt business, you know? And then

when when they're done with you, you

[ __ ] I'm like, bro, [ __ ]

>> I just upset the world. [ __ ]

changed the the the dynamic like you

said. united the MMA community and I was

like, "Bro, [ __ ] what more do I

[ __ ] want?" I did it at home. [ __ ]

walked out to Nipy Hustle, man. That was

my dream, brother. Like, [ __ ] that

was like

>> everything. Hustle and motivate by Nipy

Hustle.

>> Nice.

>> Yeah.

>> Nice.

>> That was one.

>> Wow. Wow, man.

>> But then the other people are like, "No,

no, he's a [ __ ] He's [ __ ] He's a

lucky punch and he wants to fuck."

>> There's no such thing as a lucky punch.

Anybody says that's a [ __ ] or they

don't know any better or they think

there's a thing you think you could say

to diminish someone's accomplishment.

That's all it is. There's no lucky

punch.

>> You're fighting a world class athlete.

You stepped in. You threw a left hook.

It was perfect. That's not lucky. That's

exactly what you wanted to do and you

did it. If you had your eyes closed and

you're falling backwards and you went

like that,

>> caught him on the chin. Okay, maybe

that's a lucky punch. But you still

threw a punch.

>> You know, that's a much more fortunate

punch. I would say there's nothing lucky

about the punch you threw.

>> Yeah.

>> Nothing lucky. You wanted to hit them on

the chin. You hit them on the chin.

>> Thank you for clarifying.

>> [ __ ] those people.

>> But that's this this thing about people

only love you when you're hot. That's

always going to be the case. That's just

how it is in the world. There's no

there's no way around that, man. That's

just people are always judging people on

status. They're always judging people on

their their their place in the

hierarchy. We're chimpanzees, you know?

We're like complicated chimps. And

that's how we look at it. Who's the big

chimp? Who's top chimp? Oh, you're not

top chimp anymore. You [ __ ] up. You

[ __ ] loser. [ __ ] you. And you know,

you go on like someone's Instagram like

after they had a loss, man.

>> I've seen guys go on, you know, get

knocked out or get beat and then you go

on their Instagram and the horrific

comments

>> from these people that have never done

jack [ __ ] in their lives.

>> Before the fight, the guys were [ __ ]

bru. Like, this guy got lost to Topa.

This guy [ __ ] 0 and2 [ __ ] like,

bro, they were going in on me.

>> Hey man, look at Charles Olivera. Yeah,

>> I always say look at Charles Alvivera,

one of the all-time greats, and he went

on a a

>> there was a a lot of times where he had

this [ __ ] reputation for being a

quitter.

>> Like people, he lost a bunch of times.

Cub Swanson knocked him out. Paul Felder

beat the [ __ ] out of him. All these

people beat him

>> and then he got it together somehow and

became undeniable and became a world

champion. Like this idea that like one

loss defines you is silly. And it's only

the only people that say that are people

that don't know what the [ __ ] they're

talking about. And this is part of the

problem with the the comment sphere, the

world of people that could just chime in

as experts when they literally have

never done anything in their [ __ ]

life. That's a lot of people never

really accomplished anything great. And

they're talking about people that are

trying to do one of the most difficult

things in all of the world. become a

professional combat sports athlete at

the highest level with the whole world

watching you, millions of people on

Paramount Plus, 16,000 people in the

[ __ ] crypto dome or whatever the [ __ ]

that place is called, the whole thing is

nuts, man.

>> And for you to be able to do that,

>> I feel like you're you're better off

just not reading anything, not not

talking to anybody, just go silent for a

while. Just

>> let let the dust settle. Let the

vibrations end. It's like somebody just

banged a gong and you got to wait for

that bong.

>> You got to wait for that to go back to

sleep.

>> This is the most important podcast. Like

you said, you said do it this day. I'm

like, I'm here. [ __ ] yeah.

>> Well, you said it in the interview. You

said, "I want to do your podcast." I

said, "Fuck yeah." I'm so glad I did.

Few times I ever swear during an

interview, too. It just came out. I

said, "Fuck yeah." Cuz it was just so

crazy. It was like, "How do you not have

you on after that? you did something

incredibly special, you know,

>> and I appreciate you letting me finish

the prayer cuz like I could feel the the

crowd's like, "Uh, what's going on?"

This guy started talking Arabic.

>> Is your moment? I wanted to ask I didn't

want to I did want to ask you, but I

didn't want to prolong it. What was the

prayer? What were you saying?

>> Uh, so that's fat is basically the

opening uh opening prayer of the Quran,

and it's basically like you say that for

the dead. Uh, and you say it during

whenever you pray every day. And um

that's one of the the only only verses

of the Quran that have me I've had

memorized since I was a kid cuz you can

see I'm not I'm not a very perfect

Muslim, you know. I'm very tied up like

people have been seeing my gambling and

all that and all. But that's the thing,

man. There's so many Muslims that like

hide hide [ __ ] too, you know, and like I

just I don't want to conform to one or

the other, you know? That's why I was

just I kind of put all my stuff out

there, you know, and um that was just a

prayer for my dad because uh he he

passed away when I was 15 and I kind of

navigated this whole process without a

father, you know. That's why the Marine

Corps was so important to me cuz like

they taught me how to tie my tie, how to

shave my face, how to press my uniform,

you know, like how to even speak and and

and articulate myself. Like um I'm so

grateful for that. And uh yeah, but a

big part of of of me getting here was

losing my father, you know, that kind of

pushed me a lot. I saw someone online

calling you an anti-American and I was

like what? Because he has a Muslim

prayer for his father. How crazy is

that? America is supposed to be a

melting pot of everybody.

>> Yeah.

>> All religions, all walks of life, all

places in the world, all come to here

and become American.

>> The idea that you can't be an American.

Don't you have like stars and stripes

tattooed on your arm?

>> America tattooed around my [ __ ] bro.

It's there's no nuances anymore. Like

they're like, "Oh, like if you support

Palestine, then you can't be [ __ ] a

Marine. And if you're a Marine, it's

[ __ ]

>> Well, that's crazy.

>> It's just like, bro, like

>> that's crazy. Well, there again, there's

too many voices. There's too much noise.

And that's what's going to be really

important for you from now on is like

because you've become very famous, very

quickly, is to surround yourself with

people of character, you know?

>> Where where am I going to find them,

John?"

>> That's a good question. Cuz I've been,

like I'm saying, I've been on this

journey [ __ ] by myself for a very

long time. And uh and like now it's like

snakes in the grass. They're all

appearing like, "Oh, like let me manage

you. Let me help you. Like we we'll

sponsor you. We'll do this. We'll do

that. We" And I'm just like,

>> "But listen, part part of that is a good

thing. Like these are opportunities that

come out of success, right? So it's like

you could say they're taking advantage

of you, but no, it's like there's a

moment that happened. You elevated. You

became something new. And now here you

are in this new stratosphere of life.

And you have to, you know, it's good.

It's good that they want to sponsor you

now. Why would they want to sponsor you

before? You got to realize it. Like

you're 0 and two in the UFC. That's how

it is.

>> That's fair.

>> It's also, we've talked about this a

thousand times in the broadcast. The

difference between the regional circuit

in the UFC is gigantic. And once you get

into the UFC, the reality of it all, the

experience is overwhelming. And it takes

a few fights for a guy to really show

who he is. You see it over and over and

over again. It takes a few of those

experiences inside that octagon where

you just develop the ability to settle

and then show your true skills. Yeah.

>> And some guys, they never get there.

Some guys, they're phenomenal in

training camp, phenomenal in the gym,

even excellent in the regional circuit.

They get to the bright lights of the big

show, and they just can't be themselves.

>> Yeah. And that was the thing. This is my

first That was my first arena fight.

Like my my last two were in the Apex.

>> Oh, wow. So it was just like complete

like

>> opposite like from like it felt like a

sparring match in the Apex and going out

to there. It was just like but I feel

like I performed better in in in under

pressure like that like like when like

there's millions of people watching and

like the stakes are the highest and it's

like it's like do or die like [ __ ]

I'm 0 and2 like you know there's a high

high chance [ __ ] three losses like I

was on the chopping block. That was I

was looking at you. They were they were

telling me like, "Oh, they won't cut

you." [ __ ] But I was like, "Fucking.

I'm not gonna leave it a chance."

>> If you fight hard as a heavyweight, you

have a very good chance they won't cut

you because the heavyweight division is

insanely shallow. It's really shallow.

>> I really hope they don't cut Tai. I saw

him.

>> Ty. Yeah, I know.

>> He put up a [ __ ] tough fight, man. He

fought so hard.

>> He's so fun. But I hate seeing that guy

keep taking all these punches. Like,

he's had seven losses in a row now.

hate.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, and some of them are just

like, geez.

>> And that's the thing, like you just want

to go out on top. Everyone's just like,

"Oh, let me just [ __ ] win one. I just

want to win one. I just want like Tony

Ferguson." Like, like everyone is just

like,

>> and that's where I'm just like right now

I'm just like, "Fuck, man." Like,

>> does it really get bigger than this? You

know, like upsetting the [ __ ] MMA

world. Like, sure. Like, what are they

going to give me a [ __ ] Hulkit fight

for the title next? Like, what's like

what? He got to jump all the way up.

>> He jumped all the way up in a lot of

way.

>> Let's get Vulov the disrespect, man.

Over Vulov. [ __ ] But that's what that's

where we're in now. It's all about

entertainment. What sells fights.

>> Well, he's very marketable. You know,

obviously he uh talks a lot of [ __ ] And

it's look, it is a strategy on his part.

I've talked to him. He's a normal dude

in real life. He's a nice guy. Talk to

him in real life. But he's realized like

there's a way to get eyes on you and

that is to be crazy.

>> Oh, it's totally fake. I mean, he'll

tell you it's fake.

>> I did it by being real.

>> You did?

>> Yeah, it's true. I mean, look. You don't

have to do it that way.

>> But also, you know, he's had three

fights in the UFC and he's fighting for

the title.

>> Yeah.

>> For him.

>> You know what I'm saying?

>> It's crazy. But

>> Sarah better beat him, man. [ __ ]

>> Well, serial is a hard dude to figure

out. He's a different kind of cat.

That's That [ __ ] moves different

than everybody else. You know, we were

talking about this. I think basketball

might be a really good start starting

point for MMA. Like if you can get

really good at basketball, the

difference is you're a big person first

of all and then for heavyweights in

particular and you're doing constant

plyometrics like basketball is

plyometrics, right? You're moving this

way, you're jumping, you're leaping

forward, there's all these like changes

of angle and direction that comes up

very much in fighting, especially if you

can change direction quickly in the

middle of a combination, which serial

can. Like you see the serial taiuasa

fight.

>> Yeah. Incredible performance, right?

>> His footwork is just unreal.

>> Footwork's out of control, man. His

footwork's unreal. And against Pereira,

you saw how that translates against a

guy as big as him. You know, that

footwork is a that's a [ __ ] real

problem, man.

>> What did you think about those back of

the head shots, do you think?

>> I watched it and I know that um Pereira

is blaming Herb Dean. The problem is

he's moving and it's chaos. The really

egregious foul is the Tom Aspenol fouls.

That's the very egregious fouls, the eye

pokes. Those are egregious. Those are

just fingers out in the eyeballs. Those

are bad. I'm of the opinion the moment

that happens, they should take a point

away instantly. Instantaneously. Your

fingers goes in a guy's eye, take a

point away. You nutshot a guy. Unless

it's a diversion. Like sometimes like

you'll kick and it'll kick someone's

shin and then it'll foot will go into

the nuts.

>> Accident clearly. But if you just kick a

guy in the nuts, one point.

>> You grab a fence, one point. Let's stop

all this. Let's stop all this. There's

two ways to stop that.

>> Another ways you got to figure out how

to cover the fingers. I I think people

are strategizing that now where like

they know like [ __ ] oh if I if I poke

Pokemon I like [ __ ] the damage is

going to be done and like I got the

advant like sure maybe even take a point

like [ __ ] but the damage is already

done. That happened to me in my my pro

debut. The guy was like dipping his head

down and [ __ ] coming up with the

overhand and when he popped his head, he

just [ __ ] headbutted me around the

chin and like

>> on purpose

>> cuz he kept doing it. But like the ref

didn't even see it and I like I got a

little wobbles and stuff and um but if I

didn't finish him like I could have

gotten screwed, you know, like [ __ ]

nobody catches that stuff.

>> Well, Pantosia accused Joshua Van of

that in their fight and I think he

thought that Joshua Van was doing that,

but I don't think that was what was

going on at all. I think he was just

getting frustrated that Joshua Van was

was moving ahead and the fight was

>> in this last one. I didn't even get to

watch it. It was

>> it was a [ __ ] masterclass,

>> you know, cuz Joshua Van, he won the

title, but it was from an injury, you

know, Pentosia threw the head kick,

falls backwards, breaks his arm. That's

the fight. It happened really quickly.

And so it was a very

>> Yeah.

>> You know, it was a fluke. Yeah.

>> Anticlimactic. It was It was an injury.

We don't know how the fight would have

played out if they had gone. But then

you see him against Tatsuro Tyra. He

looked like a world champion. He beat he

defended the title. And then against

Pantosia, he just put on a masterclass,

man. His [ __ ] boxing was so sweet.

Like Joshua Van is something special,

man. That that kid gets better every

single time he fights. Every sing. And

so Panto's like 25, right?

>> Yeah. He's he's he's the real thing,

man. He's something special. He's

something real special. And I feel like

next time you see him fight after he

just beat Pantoia, who's one of the

greatest flyweights of all time, and

just beat him decisively. After he beat

Pantoia, I think he's going to be even

better next time. I mean, he was talking

in the press conference. He was upset

about his victory. He said, "Man, look

at my face." He goes, he goes, "That

dude shouldn't be touching me like

this."

>> That's what makes you a champion.

>> Exactly. Exactly.

>> But, you know, his path and your path,

they're very different paths. And

everyone has to decide where they're at

in their life. And if you're at this

point where you're like, I don't know if

I want to do this anymore. I could just

go out with that.

>> Well, I just want to know why I'm doing.

That's what I need to go out and find

that answer because I'm like, if it's

just the money, like I I did option

trading when I during COVID, like I used

to be a personal trainer when I got out

of the the Marines and then I started

getting into option trading to learn how

to make money digitally and like I

started making like six figures during

the whole AMC and GameStop and Tesla

[ __ ] pops and all that stuff. And um

that's like one and I want to do like

private security as well. I I did a few

of that like I would go work with some

of the high rollers in casinos. I just

do private security and like I could

find ways to make money. I got GI Bill

benefits that I like I go to school and

like like do so for me I'm like if it's

just the money like I could find a way

to make money without getting [ __ ] my

head my brain smashed.

the title. Yeah, but I mean [ __ ] cool

UFC title. But like then it's like oh

you're not a champion until you defend

the title and then it's like [ __ ] oh

and then then there's this guy coming up

and this guy and it's just like this

never ending. It's not until you're

[ __ ]

old and beaten up and [ __ ] they see

you [ __ ] down. Like that's that's the

business, man. So

>> that is true. And if you talk to some of

these guys that stayed in too long and

you know they're slurring their words

and you see how broken they are, they're

have a difficult time walking and

sitting down. It's a struggle.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> My whole my whole MMA career cuz I got

out in 2018 and I I sent an email to

Pillo and uh Orange County and Ruka and

uh it was basically just trial by fire.

I was just sparring all the pros. Luke

Rockhold, Michael Bisbing, [ __ ] Sean

Strickland came [ __ ] was dropping me

as an amateur. Like I [ __ ] just would

been sparring over and then I went out

to Tiger and [ __ ] I moved out to

Thailand was doing sparring out there

and I was just been even got to extreme

and [ __ ] they I I was sparring

Francis and Gano my first week, bro. My

first week they threw me in there with

Anguo but it was the most terrifying

[ __ ] of my [ __ ] life, bro. I went to

the Apex and reassess my life choices

after that, bro. Like I was I was just

like

>> And so when you talking about guys that

are staying too long like bro like I've

just been sparring and that maybe that's

where my lack of development is, you

know, cuz I I never focused on like just

the footwork and never focused on just

uh that getting better at like thinking,

you know, it was always just this primal

feeling of just like like I've been in

street fights, you know, and like I just

[ __ ] start picking it up as I go.

>> That's interesting. So do you have a

main coach? Do you have a head coach

that just develops you? No,

>> it's I bounced around a lot of gyms.

Like I started Pillo, I went with Nick,

I went to Freestyle MMA, I went to Pada.

I've bounced around like so many and

like because I' i've always been looking

for the the cuss and Mick, the [ __ ]

custom Tyson, the Rocky and Mick and

like the like Trevor and and and Gachi

and like, bro, like that doesn't come

unless you're [ __ ] Hollywood now.

Like [ __ ] like now, sure, maybe I'll

get [ __ ] a bunch of coaches like

yeah, let me [ __ ] develop you. But

I'm like, who who actually [ __ ] wants

to to like actually be my head coach,

you know? Like [ __ ] like who who is

actually like here? Cuz nobody was like,

"Oh, like I see [ __ ] potential in you

and you could be a world champion

someday and let me take you under my

wing and and and and I'll give you

privates for free." Like all every

single private I did, I paid for every

single one. Like I never got any free

privates. And that was a big part of why

I went into a lot of financial struggle

was like no sponsors, no [ __ ] and I'm

like constantly like like just because I

want I just wanted my hand raised one

time just like [ __ ] I just wanted to

know what it felt like to get my [ __ ]

hand raised in that octagon, man. And so

that's why I [ __ ] I did it and on on

the biggest stage against the biggest

odds and I'm just like bro like

walk from the table when you're up bro.

Well, listen, it's not the worst idea in

the world. Especially, you were saying

that there's they you did brain scans

and they found something in your brain.

What?

>> Yeah, there was just it was just like

white matter and stuff like so they did

an MRI and then they're like, "Hey, like

we want you to do another CT scan like

there was like it's like white specks or

something. White matter or something

like great." They were like, "Oh, it

could be caused by headaches. Could be

caused by this." But um yeah, I don't

know what

>> it is. All that sparring for sure gives

you brain damage.

>> Yeah.

>> Do I mean I'm sure you had your bell

rung. I'm sure you've been dropped.

>> Yeah.

>> Is part of the sparring. Everybody look,

if you spar, you're going to get some

damage.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> There's no no if ends or buts about.

>> Cost of business.

>> And um a lot of the brain damage that

fighters get it a lot of it comes from

training. A lot of it doesn't even come

from the actual fights itself.

>> Yeah,

>> it counts. I mean, people don't think

about that. You go, "Wow, he only got

knocked out one time in his whole

career." Yeah, but how many sparring

matches did he have? You know?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's that was I was telling you

earlier like I went through [ __ ] hell

this camp. Like I was [ __ ] like hard

around like like f um Iwan Coutalaba.

>> He's so explosive so fast. He's [ __ ]

and now like we're working that oblique

kick. This is something another thing I

want to I want to mention that was very

interesting to me. My whole camp I

trained

>> for him to crawl towards me like Jones

does because he's he does the same

thing. And so what I did, I got down in

the same position on my knees to to like

crawl towards him because that's what

I've been practicing my whole camp. But

then he didn't do it that this last

fight. He just walked towards me.

>> So I don't know if [ __ ] that was if I

got in his head when I got down. But I

thought that was very interesting cuz my

whole camp I was every time every round

I was like, "Hey, crawl towards me like

Jones does. Crawl towards me like Jones

does. Do the oblique kick." I fully went

into this fight thinking that my knees

were going to get caved to [ __ ]

>> I completely I was like, "Bro, like

[ __ ] I don't care." What do you think

about that kick? The UFC is now talking

about trying to ban that kick.

>> I think this is combat. Like I think

it's like a part of it and um it's

unfortunate because a career ender like

Khalil Roundry [ __ ] he's and

it's just like

>> and also Shaot, you know, Ian Gary got

shave's knee.

>> Yeah. So it's like a part of it's like

Yeah. [ __ ] sucks. But at the same

time is like it's it's fighting, you

know, like and it's like if this was a

real fight, like that's that's pretty

realistic.

>> So is eye pokes.

>> Yeah. I say get that football field you

were talking about.

>> Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? So

are eye pokes and we don't allow eye

pokes because it creates permanent

injury.

>> I see what you're saying. But the

reality is if you were in a street

fight, you'd poke the [ __ ] out of

somebody's eyes and you should.

>> You know, if you're fighting for your

life, you'd [ __ ] thumb right in the

eye. 100%. Why wouldn't 100% why

wouldn't you? So, we have to decide like

>> true

>> what is good for the the safety of the

athletes long term if you're going to

have a long-term career with a blown out

knee.

>> Okay. A blown out knee takes you out for

a year. Not only does it take you out

for a year, but your knee might never be

the same again. And you've had ACL

surgery, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I've had him.

>> That's why I'm tell that was one of my

fears going into this fight. I was like,

"Fuck, man. These [ __ ] are

going to [ __ ] my [ __ ] up."

>> Yeah.

>> And I was like, "Fuck it. Let's go."

Like John destroyed guys knees.

>> I was there for Thiago Santos. I was

there and uh that was the same night

Mazdall knocked out Askin and uh Right.

And uh yeah, I don't think Thiago Santos

was ever the same after that fight.

>> He had both his knees reconstructed

after that fight.

>> [ __ ] crazy.

>> Yeah. And Rampage Jackson too. He blew

out Rampage's knee. Rampage said my knee

was never the same again after that

fight.

>> I just don't think I understand that

it's combat but also so is poking in the

eyes and we don't allow poking in the

eyes. So you you think we shouldn't have

>> is an argument. There's a real

conversation about whether or not it

should be legal. Andy Foster, I think,

is one of the best without a doubt

athletic commission directors from

California. He thinks it should be

banned.

>> Yeah.

>> And the UFC thinks it should be banned.

It's just too many guys. Ruseo, who just

fought uh MVP, MVP blew out his knee,

>> sidekick his knee. His knee's completely

reconstructed now. He went into surgery

right after the fight.

Now, would it be like just the oblique

kick or like

>> sidekicks and oblique kicks?

>> Just those two.

>> Yeah. Uh just attacking the knee with a

straight kick that hyperextends it. So,

you'd still be able to leg kick.

Obviously, you still be able to round

kick to the leg, but and the the issue

is the hyperextension of the knee

because it just takes one and your knee

is [ __ ] forever and your career is

over.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, it's just why are we doing

that? You know, why don't we poke each

other in the eye if we're gonna do that?

>> That's very That's very true. You know,

it's a sport at the end of day, not a

street fight.

>> Yeah. And people say, "Well, you can

heel hook. You could tap on a heel

hook." You cannot tap for a sidekick to

the knee.

>> That that sidekick comes and especially

catches you. You see the the ruse of the

the screenshot of what it looked like

when MVP caught him. His [ __ ] [ __ ]

was totally sideways. Oh,

>> [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Just everything's ripped apart

inside of there. It's gone.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, one shot for it, you know? I

like my knees [ __ ]

>> I just don't I think there's things we

can't do. We can't bite. We can't eye

gouge. We can't fish hook. There's a

bunch of things we can't do because you

want to protect the fighters. And look

at look at his knee.

>> Oh [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Look how sideways that [ __ ] is.

>> That's blown blown out, man.

>> God damn.

>> I mean, that's knee probably never going

to be the same again.

>> How did you feel about them letting him

go even though he's winning? I think MVP

should be a welterweight first of all. I

think at welterweight he's almost

unstoppable. So [ __ ] difficult to

handle. Uh Ian Garry was the only guy

that figured out how to handle him. I

don't think the power translates as well

at 85. Some of these 85 guys like

Gregory Rodriguez and Joe Pyer. They're

[ __ ] huge, man. I don't know how they

make 85, but these guys look like

heavyweights. Um, but he's one of my

favorite fighters to watch because like

his fight with Kevin Holland, people

could talk all the [ __ ] about it was a

boring fight and nothing happened. But

when you got a guy as good as Kevin

Holland and he's just like completely

frustrated because he can't do [ __ ] and

this guy's just dancing in front of him

and popping him and kicking him and

punching him anytime he wants.

>> Yeah.

>> It's nuts to watch, man. He's he's also

38, 39. Like, how old is MVP now? How

old is Michael Venom Page?

For me, he was uh like proof of concept

because I was always telling people I

was like the thing that's missing in MMA

39. See, the reality is if you're

natural, if you're a natural athlete and

you're 39 years old, it's almost over.

>> Yeah.

>> Unless you're a heavyweight.

Heavyweights have a little bit more life

to them. Like Francis is still at the

top of the heap and I think he's like 40

now.

>> Yeah. But there's a there's a time where

you just can't move. I mean, all the

injuries, all the training, you can't

move as well anymore. You're a little

bit slower.

I was always saying though that the

there's a thing that's missing in combat

sports, and that thing is point fighting

karate. That point fighting style is so

[ __ ] hard to deal with. If you have

never sparred anybody that does that

[ __ ] the moment you spar them, you're

like, "Yo, this is crazy." like these

guys can cover distance. Ah, they just

jump in and then they're out of there

and they move out of the way and you get

frustrated and you start chasing them

and then you get countered.

>> It's a a totally different element on

its own. It's no good. Like it's no good

as a standalone style because guys could

take you down. You don't know how to

wrestle, you're [ __ ] You don't know

how to do jiu-jitsu. You get strangled.

You don't know leg kicks. You get your

legs kicked out from under you. But on

if you know all those things and you

come from that point fighting

background, that ability to blitz, that

ability to dive in and out and and hit

someone from a distance they can't hit

you is crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> And he to me was like proof of concept.

And I think there's going to be a lot of

other guys that are like elite point

fighters that decide to enter into MMA

and I think they're going to have like

some pretty pretty incredible success if

they're special. Raymond Daniels did it

for a little bit in um uh in Bellator

>> 720.

>> Yeah, 720 punch [ __ ]

>> but he also like did it in uh Glory

kickboxing too. He had some great fights

in glory kickboxing as well.

>> But again, he's a little older. That's

the problem. These guys, they have these

long careers in the one discipline. They

get really good and then they by the

time they start doing MMA, they're 34,

35, four or five years later, their

career's over. Yeah. you know, so you

don't have enough time to develop and

really grow and you're also going to

have a gang of injuries. I mean, look, I

I wish nothing but the best for MVP. I

love that guy. I think he's awesome.

He's got an awesome personality. He's

had some boring fights, though,

unfortunately. And I think

>> it's entertainment. I see [ __ ]

knockouts.

>> It's a little bit of both, you know.

It's a little bit of entertainment, it's

a little bit of sport. This episode is

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How do you feel about that? You've been

around for for a long time like when the

fortitas ran it compared to now how

Paramount runs it. Like do you do you

like how it is now? Like compared to

where like it's all about entertainment

versus like who's the best at dominance?

>> Well, I'm a purist. I don't think you

should ever stand a guy up. I don't

think you should ever separate someone

when they're on the cage. I cheer for it

when it happens, just like every other

[ __ ] Like, yeah, stand them up. But,

but I mean, if you gave me the ability

to write the rules, I would never stand

anybody up ever. If you get taken down

and someone's on top of you giving you

ngies for five rounds, figure out how to

get up. And if you can't figure out how

to get up, you lost. Simple. You might

not lose the same way that you beat

Gable. You know, that's a way more

exciting way to win, right? But you

still won. You held him down. You gave

him some of these. He couldn't get up.

That's the fight. Boo. The audience

booze. Okay, whatever. Still better than

baseball. [ __ ] off.

>> You know what I mean? Like I I think

it's fighting. And I think I also think

very controversially, you shouldn't be

stood up not only at the end of the

round or I think the next fight, the

next round rather, it's the same fight.

You should be put back in the same

position.

is just pride in 15 minutes straight.

>> You could do that. Well, Pride was 10.

It was 10 minute rounds and then a

second five minute round. But I don't

think you earn a stand up, you know?

Like every fight starts standing up,

right? But once a guy takes you down, if

he takes you down, you didn't earn

getting back up. So if you didn't earn

getting back up, I think you should go

right back to the same position. It's

one fight. It's not five fights. If you

have a fivem minutee round, you get five

different chances to avoid a takedown.

Why? You already been taken down. You

never figured out how to get up.

>> It's funny you say that because that was

that was what we were talking about with

my my fight camp. I was all like it's

like [ __ ] they're going to stand me

up at the [ __ ] at the end of the

round, you know? So, you know, every

fight starts on the feet, you know?

>> Every round starts on the feet. And if

you're a wrestler or any kind of

grappler, you have to take a guy down

every single round.