I'm trying to build people up I'm trying

to armor their mind I'm trying to get

them the belief because this world we

live in is tough it will beat you down

the world and the life that we live in

is the ultimate competitor it will try

to take you out it will find your

weakness and it will just Hammer you if

I can help you build belief build

confidence to the point where nothing

can hurt you because you know exactly

who you

are David Goggins welcome to the show

hey man I appreciate you having me

brother thank you thank you for being

here where have you been for the last

four years you've been jumping out of

helicopters and fighting fires and what

have you been doing well I did that last

year right I guess this year I did that

but I just I just do me you know I'm out

there running working out and uh just

trying to find out more of what this is

all about trying to find out more of

what I'm all about so that takes me

getting away you know I'm not about even

doing these podcasts man so not nothing

against you but I'm I'm not about all

this stuff I'm not one that likes to

hear himself talk a lot um I'm about

action and action means less talking and

more doing so that's where I've been

what is that smoke jumping stuff so

basically it's um you know about

Wildland firefighting about when the

forest has fires there's a lot of times

there's roads and there's access to get

there so these you know whether it be a

um hot shot crew or whatever these

different Crews who come in by vehicle

they can get into the fire that way what

a smoke jumper is is you can't get a

vehicle into that place it is a spot

where it's tight there's no vehicles

there's no access so they'll send us in

there smoke jumpers jump out of

airplanes and we'll land in these really

tight small Drop Zones with all of our

gear and we'll put the fire out how do

you take Walter in we jump out so

everything is hang on you're jumping out

of a airplane parachute with backpacks

of water like a camel pack type thing so

we'll jump out we'll have this it's

called a diddy pack and it and it sits

in you know it sits like by your waist

you know yep on your legs area when you

jump out and that has a lot of your gear

but what happens is once you jump out

the aircraft would go lower and it will

push out all the rest of your gear your

water pumps oh and that'll get add with

own little

parachut so a lot of our main gear gets

dropped into us and then we're out there

for several days until the fire is put

out by us and only

us that's insane it's insane yeah why'

you do that well when I left the

military um you're I'm always looking

for more I'm always looking for what's

the next thing for myself how can I grow

and that right there was the next thing

for me you know I didn't want to sit

back and you know just enjoy my

retirement for the military that's

there's there there's no growth in that

so I decided to go out and do this so

you jump out of an airplan with a team

you get your kit also parachuted out of

the back you're now in the middle of an

area where there's no Evac there's no

vehicles that can come and get you m

there's a fire mhm you need to put the

fire out and you don't stop until you're

done that's it sometimes there is a way

to get out but a lot of times it's just

you know if someone gets hurt on the

jump a lot of times we have to build

like cut down a bunch of trees so a

helicopter can come in land and get them

out so we are the only access we have to

save ourselves so a lot of times we are

the team to get us in and to get us out

what was the

longest Mission exercise that you did I

think the longest one I did was seven

days so and what's the sort of daily

routine are you sleeping do you get much

sleep at all no not really so what

happens is and the thing about being in

Canada so I do this out of uh out of

British Columbia so what happens is

there's a lot of

daylight when I'm so when I'm out there

man there's a lot of daylight in the

middle of the summer when it's Hest when

you've got tons of right okay that's

right so there's not much there's not

much dark so you're basically working a

lot of hours so and then when it gets

dark you're actually working through the

nighttime and then you get a little you

know you get a little rest and you wake

up and you're at it again and then when

the fire is out you Patrol the fire fire

make sure there's no more hot spots make

sure everything is black and wet cuz we

we literally wet the whole area down so

there's no hot spots and then when

that's all done we'll demob which means

we'll clean up all the stuff all our

hoses you know we'll we'll pack up all

our stuff and then we'll we'll get out

of there did you ask to be paid for this

I I get about I think the the the pay is

about 12 to 15 bucks an

hour so it was about it man like when I

first started doing this job um people

didn't know that you know I'm actually

successful in business and then it

realized that I was like basically

turned down millions of dollars to do

this job and they can continue thinking

it to make 15 bucks an hour to make 15

bucks an hour so yeah but you know like

I said for me the the the whole money

part of it it's it's it's not with about

I'm all about that growth and and that

growth isn't in these massive paychecks

for speaking to corporations stuff like

that the growth for me is in that 12 to

$15 an hour when you're out there and

it's like 20 you know 20 degrees and

you're freezing your ass off and you're

thinking you know what I don't need to

be here

anymore and you start questioning

yourself why you're here and there's a

lot of growth in that why did you decide

to release another book what Was undone

with the first one well the first one

was basically um a bachelor's degree

with the mind that's how I look at it

and no one knew who I was so this is the

book never finished as the book that I

wanted to come out first but how am I

going to get so deep into something when

no one Els who the hell I am so first I

have to give you some backstory on who

the hell David Goggins is some

credentials that's it and so I got some

basic credentials out there and now I

can dive in more because most people

think I'm just some Grand animal who

runs and yells and just says [ __ ] and

mother [ __ ] all the time and that's

nowhere near the truth that's maybe what

they see in a one minute video and

that's what people believe but there's a

lot of thought behind a person being a

Bor and loser becoming who I am today

you don't just wake up and just Rocky

the [ __ ] you gotta wake up and think

about you know there's a process to

getting better and that process is never

finished it's an appropriate title so

one of the things I've been thinking

about is the danger of success making

you soft and this must be something that

you've battled with over the last few

years right more money more attention

more Fame more free things if you wanted

more opportunities to go places and do

stuff with people right how have you

dealt with this battle of success not

making you soft you have to cap it you

have to learn to cap success so what I

do is like right now I don't like doing

podcasts there's a lot of things I don't

do I have to do now to get the messes

out there to help people out and what I

mean by capping success I believe

everybody should live their life so

everything that someone says in life

take it with a grain of salt take what

they give and don't be like oh David

Goin said this or whoever said this

no do not take what I say and do exactly

what I say so for me what makes me who I

am because my mission is very different

than yours anybody else's I have to go

into a situation

okay I'm a guy who wants to make people

better for people to get better I have

to continuously get better myself for me

to do that I can't just say oh I have

this resume the resume is there forever

I'm

good I have to cap My Success because

for me to help people out I can't just

say I did it once and I'm good I have to

continue to reinvent the will of the

mind and figure out more and more ways

for you to pull because if I have a

cookie cutter message it may hit five

people out of 25 you just

failed my message needs to be in a way

where I can hit all 25 people it needs

to be broad enough to where all 25

people may not like the message but

they're getting something from it and

that is evolution you must continue to

evolve and and you don't evolve for me

in my job unless I cap myself somewhere

and say okay you made this much money

get back to [ __ ] work it's time to

get back to work stop hearing yourself

talk get off the podcast don't be on

social media too much cut out all the

[ __ ] noise get back to the [ __ ]

mental lab because that's where the

knowledge came from so for me I must cap

myself so I can come back with better

more unique knowledge versus the C know

all that cookie hutter knowledge that's

out there

that's why people buy the books I have

because it's not cookie cutter it's real

knowledge the other thing now is when

you first started you were a Lone Ranger

right nobody really knew who you were

outside of some obscure endurance places

and half-heard truths of these weird

myths right but now you've got people's

expectations layed on top as well so not

only have you got to deal with success

potentially making you soft so you've

got to cap that you've got to say no to

more money and opportunities and cool

people right you've also got this extra

layer of expect

that's coming through from other people

too and I think that you talk about

trained humility right in the new book

too I've got to presume that that fits

into this equation right it fits in big

time um and that's one big reason why I

do fight fire because the all the

knowledge for myself comes from that

place it doesn't come from the place of

success my knowledge does not come from

the place like because for me like I

built Goggins from the ground up I was

born David goggin David gogins wasn't

good enough enough he was a scared

bullied uh abused kid um who struggled

in

life and that kid whenever something got

tough no matter how hard I trained no

matter how ready I

was whenever something got tough for me

David goggin the real David Goggins

would come out and he would quit so I

realized this over a period of time so I

had to build

goggin and in that process I have to go

back to that mental lab and that mental

lab is at scratch that mental lab isn't

that trained humility and so that's

where I get better I get better when I'm

digging holes in the ground when I'm

waking up early knowing I don't have to

do these things that's where I get

better so it's important to stay hungry

it's important to stay hungry but it's

important more to stay humble within

that hunger so why you're hungry a lot

of people are hungry but humility is

everything what was that story about

William Crawford the janitor yeah so

this guy won the Medal of Honor so he

won the Medal of Honor and which is the

highest award in the

military and this guy went to the Air

Force Academy and he was a

janitor and no one knew who the [ __ ]

this man was he had the highest award in

all the milit military for heroics for

heroics saving lives putting his life on

the line could have you know could have

been killed and he is now basically you

know cleaning [ __ ] for young kids

and we can all imagine how that probably

went you know there's probably some you

know little bit of taunting here and

there and he just sat there and cleaned

the [ __ ] so that's why he's in my

trained humility part because for this

man to be at the level he was and had

that kind of humility to go I'm a MD of

Honor winner but I'm gonna put that in

my closet and I'm gonna pick up my broom

and dust pan and I'm gonna pick up you

know this Rag and clean this [ __ ] for

these young men that right there is

amazing for me man that's that's where

you grow that's that's growth huge

growth and also it shows that he was

doing his

job he was a

servant he didn't look at himself any

better than anybody else the second you

do that you're totally lost you cannot

look at yourself like people with me

even I always look at people I I know

where you are I know where because I've

been there that's why I helped so many

people out I've I've never been above

you I've always pretty much been beneath

you and that's where my knowledge came

from so I know how to reach those people

who are in the dungeon because I've been

there so many times speaking of getting

too soft did you see that there was a

news story that came out recently about

the treatment of seals during the

selection process do you see this yeah

yeah I saw it yeah they were getting uh

sprayed with tear gas whilst they were

on the ground and they were made to sing

Happy Birthday so that they couldn't

hold their breath while it was happening

and there was a a quote from uh this guy

I think this type of training is really

senseless said Sven yort a Juke

University associate professor who

studies tear gas and its effects it

looks more like a form of hazing right I

see all that trust me like I said you

know I'm not g to sugarcoat anything

I understand that guy I understand

exactly where you're coming from that is

your personal opinion and I totally get

that

but there's very few people in this

world who want to do a job like that and

it takes a different kind of

mindset is it tear grass appropriate I

don't

know how hard that training is I don't

expect anybody to understand it but one%

but the loud voices of this world are

the 99% who don't understand exactly

what you have to do that's why when I

speak and you don't understand me it's

probably a good thing because that

probably means I'm in an area of life

that you're not in which is fine that's

why I don't judge people and this guy

right here judging that unless you've

been there and done that and you really

can't speak about it unless you're in

those situations that are so hard that

takes a special human being to get

through them I think it's the same kind

of feeling that I get when I heard about

Elon Musk telling the employees at

Twitter M we're going to ask you to work

harder than you've ever worked in your

life this is a place Twitter is now a

company where people can go if they want

to be in the top not. one% of

hardworking programmers and software

developers on the planet that's right

and there was everybody was up in arms

this is unbelievable we're going back to

this old version of capitalism where the

the worker is being abused and used and

thrown away what they didn't account for

is that there is a non insignificant

cohort of people for whom that's their

dream that's right people who want to be

able to get up on a morning having gone

to bed 4 hours before and can contribute

to some sort of progress that they think

this this is what I'm here for yep and

it's the same with the seals if you're

not the sort of person that is built to

go through selection it's like speaking

a different language

and that's why I don't try to convince

people otherwise I understand that why

you're confused I understand why you say

things like that I'm not saying anything

bad about that I understand it but also

what you don't understand what you fail

to understand is the other side that you

need people like that you need the Elon

musks you need the David Goggins you

need some of these Navy some of these

other people you need those people and

they don't they forget that and it takes

a very very unique person and unique

mind to do some of these jobs that are

necessary in this world well especially

when we're thinking about someone going

to war right do you want your Armed

Forces to be underprepared for the

battlefield because you didn't want to

be too mean to them in

advance that's that's the problem that's

the problem and that's a problem that

I've always had I've always had is that

right there is that with even even some

of the most trained people in the world

fall back on that it's easy to talk

about like I said when you go through it

once when it's a perishable

skill

hardness mental hardening mental

toughness it's a perishable skill just

because you went through some training

once and you got through it doesn't mean

it lasts [ __ ] forever and that's where

most people hated me in my life because

I realized that you don't to say oh I

got it I'm checked off I'm good for the

rest of my life that's why you have

recall you recall on [ __ ] everything

and you definitely must recall when it

comes to the mind that is one of the

biggest requalification you must have

and when you're at that level you gotta

recall every [ __ ] day not once a year

one of the other things that you did to

stop yourself from getting soft was

running the Moab 240 yep talk me through

that experience so um I hadn't Run 100

mile race in I think it was about 6

years you know I had you know some heart

surgeries I had some maybe some

questioning in my mind about I call it

part-time Savage I started kind of going

through this I started getting you know

a little bit injuries a little bit this

a little that things that back in the

day never slowed me

down so when I got my head out of my ass

and realized that hey we have more left

we can still push harder we're not there

yet I realized talking to a guy named

Cameron Haynes who this race 240 mile

race and um I say I go is this the is

this the new level is this the new is

this the new push so when I decided to

do that race it was in the back of my

mind like man I've really become an

expert at running 100 mile races so for

me this was the new level the 200 plus

mile race and what was so amazing about

that as you probably read in the book I

had a hard time the first time doing it

I came back and did better but what's

amazing about the human mind is that it

becomes your new

Norm like to to to think that I can run

200 miles 240 miles and that becomes

like running 50 I never thought that was

possible this is why I'm I'm always

pushing that limit because I know that

within pushing these limits there's

always more so I end up doing like

almost like backtack 200 mile runs when

the 200 mile race 240 mile race was hard

at once it became something that was

very easy after I figured it out so

that's why that happened well you got

lost on the first one oh yeah and then

you went to bed and woke up halfway

through the night and nudged Kish and

said how long have we got left until the

end of the race but because you hadn't

completed the official route you

couldn't go across the official Finish

Line yeah so you ring your race um like

Pacers some of whom had gone home yep

what like what what do you think it's 3

in the morning and you're ringing people

saying you know that race that we just

finished because of health problems can

we go back and finish it so the crazy

thing about that and that and that's but

so I got lost the first time I got

seriously sick was off Court so

basically I bed down about 12 hours then

I got back in the race so I was still a

part of the official race now okay so

the first time I got lost I I got sick

got back got lost got back in the race

after 12 hours of being out of the race

so now I get to about 200 and some miles

and I'm sick as hell can't breathe H out

to pulmonary edema totally jacked up and

now the doctor tells me if if you get

off course now and you go to the doctor

you won't be able to come back and

finish the race so I had to make a call

like you know what I'm pretty messed up

got off so this is where you're talking

about I'm literally laying in bed and

I'm feeling

better and I thought honestly I swear to

God I thought that someone was speaking

to me I thought it was Jennifer it was

like you're not done yet [ __ ]

and I'm like what the [ __ ] is this it

was actually probably my subconscious

saying get your ass back out there so I

wake Jennifer up I'm like hey how much

time do we have until the cut off I know

that I'm already you know dnfed so

matter what happens here I'm not going

to be an official finisher of this race

this isn't for Glory no this is now for

the fact that you can so either you can

sit here and not and think about that

for a whole year until you come back

here and do this or you can go out there

for yourself and take some some kind of

pride in knowing that you could and you

did

so basically I wake her up how much time

left she goes something like I don't

know what it was how would you say what

time

was like you know whatever and half my

crew had left and there was two people

there I woke them up they were getting

ready to get on a plane I said look can

you guys help me out I have 40 miles to

go I'm GNA have Jennifer drop me back

off at the spot where I left I'm GNA

finish this [ __ ]

race and I couldn't cross the finish

line because I wasn't an official

finisher so I end up finishing on a road

on you know by a by a telephone pole and

that was my official finish end up being

like 250 M 255 miles but it's one of the

best races of all time because we're

going through it

fast but all the [ __ ] times that I

was like this is I I'm not going back

and I went back I'm not going back and I

went back I'm not going back and I went

back it showed me even more of what we

have as as as humans if we're willing to

go there and we're willing to push that

extra step and like I said you know I

always tell people a lot of people man

how do you do what you

do at the end of the day I ask myself

one question can I take one more step

and usually the answer is yes so if you

can answer that question and not take

another step that is real failure that

is real quitting so a lot of people can

take one more step but they choose not

to I don't know if you can take two

steps you got to answer that question

after you take the first

step but I can always take one more step

so if I choose not to that's on me and I

gota live with that does that link in

with the one second decision yes yes so

the one second decision is I had to live

through that one second decision several

times during this race so this race took

me a hundred and some hours okay and

this is what people don't get for you to

finish that race even though I dnfed I

still finished in the time so there's a

lot of pride in that if you're 10 and

some OD hours let me use hell week this

is a perfect example hell week is 130

hours and 130 hours is a lot of

seconds a lot of [ __ ] seconds and if

you lose let's say you win every second

but one

you

lost it only takes one second for you to

lose the whole thing so the one second

decision is just that you're in a

situation where life is sucking let's

say you're in extreme cold water and

your life is flashing before your eyes

every time that wave goes over your head

your thought process is I got to get the

[ __ ] out of this

water and you're in hell week and you're

hour one of 130 [ __ ]

hours it's all fun and games okay

because at the beginning of Hell Week

the guns are going off it's like a pep

rally so you're [ __ ] hyped up and

your boys are linked arms and you're

getting sprayed and it's like a [ __ ]

peep rally the instructure yelling at

your bombs are going off concussion

grenades blanks from in60s yeah who yah

[ __ ] yeah [ __ ] yeah yeah [ __ ]

yeah but then what they do is they shut

that [ __ ] off they shut it

off all that huah all that hype gets

real

quiet and they March you out to that

surf zone for something called surf

torture and it's that water that Pacific

Ocean is cold as [ __ ] so no more prep

rally you're now in your head you're

linked arms with you know your brothers

beside you you don't know if they could

be there long or not you don't care you

think about

yourself you lay back in that first wave

hit

you your mind goes straight from hour

two all the way to hour 130 you can't

process five days of this [ __ ] you're

now in you're you're now in a [ __ ] you

like I gotta get out of here you're in

fight or flight it's cold I can't be

cold this long and then this is where

that one second decision comes in you

forgot every reason why you wanted to be

there you don't care about seals you

don't care about any of this you don't

care about fighting for your country you

don't care about that Gody gold Trident

that they put on your chest you don't

care about any of that [ __ ] no more all

you want to do is go back home you want

the warmth you may want something to eat

you want your girl to hold you all those

things of comfort are there in that one

second and this is where people

lose so what I do in that one second

because we all think about quitting when

shit's hard but what you have to do in

that one second is hard to process

information during

pain because that pain takes over and

you can't think rationally you're

thinking about fight or flight save

yourself that's not a rational thought

it's not a thought that's going to get

you through hard

times most people fail that one second

so what happens what I do in that one

second it's and there's a bigger process

to all this but in that one

second I physically stayed in in that

water because if I get out of the water

I quit so I physically stay in the water

but

mentally I'm on the [ __ ] beach with

the [ __ ] instructors and the

instructors is cold outside so they got

these Parkers on they got their cup of

[ __ ] Joe and they're warm because

they've already been through it so now

it's your turn to go through it so

mainly I get back with them I'm still in

the water physically but mainly I'm back

I'm chilling I got my Parker on and now

I'm thinking logically cuz I'm warm now

mentally warm I've taken that one

second let's not quit yet Goggins let's

[ __ ] think about your options where

are you going to end up if you quit this

[ __ ] where you gon to go what are you g

to say to yourself because you know

you're going to get warm the second you

get out this water you GNA take a shower

and you could be warm and you could be

and in five days you could be out so I

start thinking

logically I calm my brain down because

your brain just wants to get the [ __ ]

out ring the bell push your hmet down

get warm and then you're really [ __ ]

and these are the things you have to

think about the one second decision so

that's what that's all about it's about

gaining control of your mind putting

things back in the proper

perspective and then saying I really do

want to be here and I'm G to have a

bunch of these 1 seconds through this

130 hour journey and I have to learn to

control these because if I fail one of

these one seconds I will not be a seal I

will not be a doctor I will not be a

lawyer I will not be whatever the [ __ ]

is so that's how important that one

second decision is it's all about your

mind takes control of you you have to

say [ __ ] you I run this

[ __ ] and that's what that's all

about we'll get back to Goggins in one

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modern wisdom projecting yourself

forward to see what are the consequences

of failing what are the consequences of

stopping yep is about as powerful of a

motivation strategies as I can think of

you know because what you're doing is

you're trying to optimize right now to

stop the discomfort that's right but

what you're going to pay for that in is

shame and guilt and regret long term

that's right so what you need to be able

to do is bundle all of that up that is

as yet unfelt but will last for way way

way longer you know the future is much

longer than now that's right the future

is going to extend out up until the day

that you die and the now is just for now

and even 130 hours is just 130 hours

that's right and you get to look back

and do you look back with Pride and

Glory or do you look back with shame and

guilt that's it that's that's the one

second you just summarized it right

there and most people fail those one

seconds and then that one second leads

to 20 years 30 years 40 Years of [ __ ] I

have people who have been through

training with me Ranger school SEAL

training Air Force training and I get

calls from them today and they have

great lives and all they talk about is

how they failed in that one moment and

they can't even great they can't even

enjoy eny their life now because they're

now

warm they're now warm there's no more

suffering there's no more suffering for

me either and we're in the same boat now

but you're suffering and so we're not

suffering but you're thinking about what

you could have been I am exactly what I

should have been and that's where people

start to lose it because now I realize

that in that one second I go through all

that I know how it's going to feel CU I

failed so many times before failure is

the ultimate thing man I failed so many

times before that's why I don't look at

failure anymore as failure I look as my

first second and third

attempt so that's what that's all about

man well I mean you went back to go and

do Moab again the second time right

which is your second attempt that's

right had you banged your knee up it was

pretty bad in between the first and the

second one it was pretty bad way before

either one of them uhhuh yeah yeah it

was it's been jacked up now for about 20

years I've seen some nly photos of it

recently it looks yeah yeah interesting

yeah so all those miles I've run on this

thing it's it's uh it's been a lot of uh

it's been a lot of gut checks so you go

back you do Moab a second time yep and

then you turn your ass into like a

hamburger or

something as well so it's not just the

knee it's the ass as well now yeah so at

Mile 2011 we have a good video of it

matter of fact Jennifer is like there's

some people up so at at so 201 is a spot

where

I was really finished in the first Moab

so that was a um way Mark a checkpoint

for you the second time so Jennifer is

extremely happy right now because I'm

there yes and she knows I'm doing well

now I'm doing good we're gonna get

through this and so she's videoing me as

I'm coming up this climb on this road

and she goes there's some people up here

who want to meet you you're doing so

amazing I said my ass is [ __ ] up you

need to get the [ __ ] desant cream and

it's literally for like 20 [ __ ]

miles that like people don't get it man

when you get raw like that bro and

you're walking cuz you the the chaing of

my ass it was hamburger meat and I'm

like so she's all [ __ ] happy and [ __ ]

she's and I just look at her and I'm

gonna put the video up on social media

cuz it's it's but she's a [ __ ]

Trooper bro hang on so could she was the

leakage oh yeah that was on the video

from behind so my shorts were absolutely

raw dogged yeah so when you pull them

down it's just blood and so she goes in

the bathroom because she didn't know

what she was going to see she has a

Destin cream she walks in there and I

pull them down and spread them open and

I go put that [ __ ] all up in there so

she goes in for the kid

and she's putting this Destin cream all

over the [ __ ] place man and you know

what this the funny thing about it Dash

when you know you got a good

[ __ ] with you man when you're

that raw and you're that [ __ ] up and

she's just like nothing it was like

saying hey can you like put some lotion

on my back before I go lay out that's

how she was in there man getting in it

that's it man have you considered that

that might be the most traumatic event

of all of the things that you've done in

your life what you asked Jennifer to do

that day no not at all she did

worse so that Leadville chapter when I

talk about after I finished and then the

ultra raveling or unraveling had had

begun when I lay down so oh that was on

the duvet and you didn't know the word

duv yeah I know what the [ __ ] duve was

[ __ ] you don't know the word duv blanket

man okay fair enough fair enough fair

enough out from the streets we call them

blankets anything that you wrap up in as

a [ __ ] blanket cool so I'm laying on

the duvet

and she's all [ __ ] like about her

damn ratings that [ __ ] the Airbnb

[ __ ] and I'm L like hey I'm about to

[ __ ] right here because it's not your

place

no okay no right yes I can see why she

be consern so that scene is uh is is was

was bad but once again like a crime

scene it's yes it was a crime scene so

you've done all of this stuff right

you've done the seal selection week

three times strapping the legs up so

that you can Runner badwater Ultra race

the Asbergers everything yes of all of

the physical Pursuits that you've

endured which has been the most painful

by far by far my first 100 mile

race by far this

2019 Moab the one that I D enough but

still finished that's up there but when

you

are um so I guess you're you're you're

not prepared to run 100 miles and you

take it for granted and you didn't do

any training at all and you didn't have

the right nutrition and off of whim like

literally like you know what I want to

raise money for a foundation that's how

that happened so I don't know if you

know the story or not but basically I'm

sitting there and the Lan Survivor

incident happened where a bunch of you

know some seals died I want to raise

money for them I went through training

with most of these guys so I had the

bright idea to uh raise money you know I

wasn't going to do a hot dog or

hamburger sale I was going to do

something that people would be attracted

to so I Googled the world's toughest

events and what comes up is this race

called the badwater

135 and it's 135 mile race through Death

Valley in the summertime now I had no

idea about ultr running I didn't know

what the [ __ ] ultr running was but when

I heard so when I saw 135 miles I

automatically assumed it was a stage

race where you ran like maybe 10 15

miles bed down and you got up next

morning did it so when I called the race

director up Chris Cosman I'm like hey I

would like to do this race to raise

money for a foundation he goes have you

ever run a 100

miles and I was like like in in a week

or like like what are you talking about

he goes no like in 24 hours because

that's what you got to do to qualify and

I was like is that even is that even

possible like I I didn't know so anyway

he goes no you can't get in my race

unless you qualify and I call him up on

a Wednesday and that Saturday and I was

a bodybuilder at the time I did cardio

20 minutes a week on the elliptical

trainer every Sunday he goes yeah

Saturday you're in San Diego Saturday is

uh 24hour race where you run around a

one mile track for 24 hours and if you

can get 100 miles I'll consider you my

race so I'll go sign up for this race

and the first 70 miles I'm doing pretty

good and then I hadn't sat down I was uh

hadn't gone to the bathroom I was eating

I was drinking myoplex and Rich crackers

I was you know eating Rich crackers so

Elite nutrition yeah elite elite high

quality

nutrition so what happens when you're

that ignorant and you go out to do this

race and you sit down in a chair your

body's done so I'm sitting there and

when you sit down for the first time in

over 12 hours

your body's now going through some

metamorphosis like go [ __ ] home go go

to a doctor get some help but I'm

sitting there and I have this urge to go

to the

bathroom and there's a porter potty for

me that [ __ ] wall but I can't get up

because my blood pressure is all messed

up from my great nutrition that I was on

and so I can't stand up so I look at my

ex-wife and I literally say I'm want to

[ __ ] on myself right now so I sit there

and I'm I'm [ __ ] up my back and I'm

peeing blood down my leg and I have 30

miles to go and I end up finding away to

get through that 30 miles and when I got

done with that

race it's the worst pain I can ever even

I can't even describe the pain of that

last 30 miles to anybody no one it's

very hard whole body whole body I'm so

when it ended I I I'm literally

dizzy going up my stairs to to get to my

house I'm literally I have my arms

wrapped around her going up the stairs

and every flight of stairs I got have to

lay down because I can't stay upright

for too long or I'm G pass out so I

finally get in the house and when I get

in the house I'm once again on the floor

I'm in the kitchen on the floor just

laying there I finally make it to the

bathroom into the tub I get rolled in

the tub and she puts the water on me I'm

just laying there with the water coming

on me and what I pee out looks like

cocacola and I'm laying there in the

worst pain of my entire life I'm shaken

I'm jacked up and all I could think

about

was I can't believe what I just done

because when you get to 70 miles of a

race and you felt the way I

did it's to me it was humanly impossible

to even think about going 30 more miles

in that shape and once you do it what

what came over me when that shower hit

me and the reality hit that I SP 101

miles and that last 31 miles was

something that I can't even describe to

people and she's like we got get you to

the hospital so at the time my mom was

seeing this doctor and he was like you

know so so she's describing to my mom

I'm going through he's like you gotta

get in the hospital now and I just said

just just shut up and let me enjoy this

pain I don't want anything to numb it I

don't want anything right now because

what I had done was I just in my mind

and people would take this wrong and

take as wrong as you want to I don't

really care I had just climbed a mental

wall that was amazing and I didn't want

anybody to take that pain away from me

at that point because that was that was

all confirmation it seems like I've

heard you tell that story a number of

times amazing

did that set the tone or the Rhythm for

what you wanted to try and Achieve and

feel again each time there's you're

pushing further there's more difficulty

I never want to feel it again I never

want to feel it again but what it did

was it showed me what is possible and

that's what set the new stage for me

that's when I realized oh man I've

really been underachieving my entire

life I'm not saying that you have to go

to that place because that place is a

dangerous dangerous place that

borderline rabdo heart everything it was

borderline rabo it was all that y but

you don't you don't want to go there but

it taught me what is possible so from

that 19-hour lesson one the best biggest

lesson had my life it it taught me like

okay I got it check tell me about this

mixed type of hate that you've

made so what started happening

is as you get bigger as you get more

successful you open the door for people

to critique every [ __ ] thing you do

and most of the people who are

critiquing you usually aren't where you

are and all their critiquing comes from

people who are really at a low level of

life which is sad but what we do people

who are on the upper level hearing the

haters at the lower level like I said

you'll never meet a hater doing better

than you true

statement I started having fun with it

so I'll go through the comments while

while most people don't go through

comments I go through and intentionally

look for the bad

ones and while I'll block and delete you

because the people on my page don't need

that negative energy I'll block and

delete you but I take a snapshot on my

phone and I put it in the archive so

what happens is there's days where I'm

like you know what I really don't want

to do this today I'm like oh hang on so

I started making these mixtapes with all

of these hate messages about people

talking [ __ ] and it became such a source

of fuel that it was amazing because I

know why you hate me you hate me because

you're probably in the bed right now

you're probably an underachiever you're

probably somebody who doesn't want to do

anything with your life so I make you

question question everything about

yourself so I'm going to continue making

you question yourself by coming out here

and being even more successful so I

listen to that while I run I sometimes

played in the house and it sometimes

gets on Jennifer's [ __ ] nerves

because I'm sitting and listen to

Somebody talk mad [ __ ] on a loop about

me and she's like why do you do this

[ __ ] it's half comical and it's half um

it's half inspiring I'm actually

inspired by it I've heard you say

previously that listening to music while

you train is cheating MH so what you're

telling me MH is that the Silence of

your own dark thoughts isn't enough of a

soundtrack and you've had to crowdsource

insults from the internet self narrate

it yep and then play it to yourself

while you train that's it I do that

sometimes yes yes have you got your

phone on your right now I want to hear

it no I I don't travel with my phone oh

yeah my phone does not go with me

anywhere why is that

once again man like right now I'm with

you a lot of times people are in

conversations or they're somewhere they

elsewhere you may think they're with you

but they're not that phone is the

biggest distraction in the world when

time so when it comes time for the phone

I'm on the phone when not I don't use it

I'm all about being present where I'm at

so that's why that phone right now no we

do have it it's in your it's silenced

it's off so I do have my phone right now

but but usually I don't take it anywhere

go got you so while you're listening to

the self- narrated insults of random

people on the internet that you don't

like right what are you thinking of

while you're listening to that while

you're working out or while you're

walking around the house how that back

in the day when I was sometimes getting

bullied or in a dark place how sometimes

that would have bothered me how I would

want

to clap back I I would want to be on

there all day explaining myself to

people and how now I'm in a place now

where I can hear it and I can actually

enjoy it I can actually know where it's

coming from I've studied it so I don't

just like listen to it and like make fun

of it I actually study it because I was

once that negative person I was once

that person who saw someone

successful and didn't see how can I get

there I was like oh [ __ ] that they're

probably cheating or they're probably

doing this I was I was that negative

person because I wasn't there and I

didn't want to work to get there so

these people who hate on people I've

studied them and I've gained a lot of

Knowledge from them because I gain a lot

of knowledge for myself when I was in

that dark place so it's almost like

reflecting an older version of you back

to yourself 100% I had this idea um uh

called the reverse role model so in a

lot of places people might grow up and

not have good Role Models around them

you know like it would be great if I had

someone that was my hero that could tell

me how to be X uh good in school well

with work fantastic in relationships

whatever it might

be and a lot of people don't grow up

with that right and what I realized was

cuz that was me in in part from where I

was from but I realized there was a lot

of people that I got to see that were

like the sort of person I didn't want to

be like right and that was the reverse

role model so I could look around and I

could say well I really don't want his

relationship with his wife and I hate

the way that he is using alcohol to get

over the problems in his life he he

doesn't have any Integrity or tell the

truth she is a liar and a backstabber

and a gossip and the thing is that you

can actually achieve a lot of success in

life by avoiding failure like most

success in life actually is avoiding

failure yes you need to be able to be

competent But first you need to not get

out of the race that's the one second

decision right you need to not lose

before you can win right and the reverse

role model is you weaving your way

through a selection of people that you

don't want to be like and I think that

you can get an awfully long way just by

doing that I did that my entire life I

had the ultimate blueprint by watching

my family I was the youngest kid so the

youngest kid has the total Advantage you

know you may get picked on you may get

bullied with everybody but you sit back

in the exactly what you said I sat back

and watched my dad definitely don't want

to do that my mom my brother whoever it

may be I sat back and I paid attention

to everything around me and it was the

ultimate blueprint to how to live life

how not to live life how not to live

life is I watched people do [ __ ] and I

said

H I don't want to be like that I like

what you said about

how the criticism that you see from

people is coming from a very unique

place I think if you got to see the

inner texture of the people who don't

like use existence you'd feel more pity

than anger for the most part I think

you'd pity them yes um and that's a

realization that's taken a long time for

me to to come up with because everybody

else feels or to me it always seems like

everyone else has got it together

because I get to see only what you

choose to say only what I'm around you

doing that I get to see whereas I get to

observe my

own inefficiency and foibles 10,000

times a second right I get to watch the

texture of my own mind be completely

unresponsive and useless I see every

single um prideful decision every single

lie that I tell myself every single time

I make a promise and don't keep it mhm

but I don't get to see that from

everyone so I'd always presume because

of this asymmetry that everybody else

had it sorted and I didn't and it also

made me think that everybody else's

opinion was this perfectly balanced well

researched beautifully it was it was

they had they had me nailed down to a

tea what they were telling me was the

truth they could see something in me

that I couldn't right and after a little

bit of time and a good bit of building

up of selfconfidence I realized that

that's not the case no I have pity on a

lot of people I do um I used to get

angry about it like there was this guy I

talked about it on on Rogan this guy

from s team six who went out there when

I became started becoming more famous he

went out there and just try to destroy

me tried to literally destroy me talked

about how you know he just totally lied

totally lied had to get a lawyer against

him all all kind of [ __ ] and I was

getting ready to Sue this guy had a

great I was going to sue him because he

literally tried to destroy my character

my reputation went out there in this

lest ass

off I thought to

myself it's about two months into it I

sat back and I started feeling sorry for

this guy like really sorry for him I was

I was goingon to pull a trigger sue him

and I said I'm not gonna Sue this guy I

said for you to be this person who comes

on and lies and tries to literally tear

down

everything I've worked for you are in a

very very bad place come to find out he

was in a very bad mental place so I get

what you're saying I've learned to study

people before I react because there's no

successful person in the world who's in

a good head space that's going to ever

attack anyone in that kind of manner

there's always going to be something

wrong with them so you got to always

dive a little deeper before you get your

feelings hurt before you get your

feelings hurt by that bully at school or

that boss at work take time take that

one second to pull back and study them

because most people who are in good

places they don't they don't care about

what you're doing they don't care about

what you're doing they don't try to

destroy you they actually will try to

build you up versus destroy who you are

as a person so that's where I'm at now

in life is most people who do that

they're in a very dark dark place I've

got a ton more to talk to goggin about

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wisdom what do you think most people get

wrong about

motivation they think it's a permanent

fix they think it's something that that

is a constant they think that maybe once

I get it I'm gonna hold on to

it and that's the thing about that I was

telling you I always talk about is

nothing is permanent nothing is

permanent and a lot of times you have to

learn to perform without

motivation you have to learn to perform

without purpose you have to learn to

perform a lot of different things and

that's what people think they think I

need to have this

motivation to work out to study to be

better so if they don't have it they

just don't [ __ ] do it and that's

where you

fail you have to learn to train your

mind well beyond motivation if you have

motivation that's great that's some

kindling to the fire all it takes is a

little bit of [ __ ] spark you can burn

a whole Forest up but motivation you

have to learn to exist without it you

have to learn to be you have to be your

best self when you're least

motivated and that's the tricky part

about all that [ __ ] motivation is just a

word you have to have these different

things in your mind on where you want to

go and know that motivation is not going

to get me there CU I'm not going to

always be motivated said the exact same

thing you said that discipline needs

motivation for breakfast and discipline

is good too but without a clear head

space there's no discipline what you

mean so let's say we have a circuit

breaker okay and I'm loading everything

up to one [ __ ] circuit just load it

up it's gonna [ __ ]

blow and once that thing blows man the

circuit's all [ __ ]

up you got to have each thing plugged

into the right SP spot like a [ __ ]

crowded

garage you can't put anything in it once

your brain is crowded discipline is

great motivation is great but if you

can't fit [ __ ] in your brain because

it's all [ __ ] cluttered with

[ __ ] there's no

discipline you may have it sometimes

when it fits in that crowded garage of

your mind but you don't have the

consistency that you need to have with

that discipline so what are you talking

about here are you saying doing self

work and reflecting on you as an

individual are you doing therapy call I

call it my I call it mental zones I

don't get into it much because it be all

day but basically is you're organizing

your mind so you can put that discipline

so a lot of people talk about discipline

okay great why do you fall off the

[ __ ] wagon why can't I continue with

this routine going to the gym being

better waking up early eating the right

Foods it's because maybe it's your kids

maybe it's your wife maybe it's your job

and it's all just stuffed in your

[ __ ] brain you don't have it

compartmentalized and organized in these

nice shelves like you look in a garage

it's all [ __ ] a nice organized

militant garage hey where are my

dumbbells right there a lot of people

whose brain Hey where's my Dum H let me

look they're [ __ ] throwing [ __ ]

they're looking through totes they're

all [ __ ] up so where am I going to put

discipline in that mind if I can't find

other [ __ ]

you got to be able to find all these

different things in your mind oh I can

put discipline right there I can put

consistency right there I can put all

these things right there in that spot so

that's what I'm talking about if your

life is not

organized in your life being everything

around you because it takes one little

[ __ ] up piece of an outside

interference to Cutter your whole mind

because it's on such a knife edge that's

right and people don't get that your

mind has to always be clear that's why

Mo that's why I meditate two hours every

single night because I refresh I

reorganize the garage which is my mind

every night so then discipline's in

there organization everything is in this

right spot so when I wake up I'm ready

to go what does a morning look like for

you at the moment have you got a routine

of some kind yes I run every single

morning so that's what time you up when

are you waking up I'm up about 5 5:30 so

every morning starts with a run and

that's because that's the one thing I

hate to do more than anything in the

world so that's like my cup of coffee

and I'm all about armoring yourself so

the second you leave your house and the

second you open your phone the second

you do any of that [ __ ] you are now

letting them poison in

cancer so I make sure a lot of things

you can't avoid so as I get up I start

to armor plate my mind and body like a

person's going to war you put your body

armor on that's what I'm doing on that

run I'm waking up and I'm giving myself

all this armor so when I come out in the

world now look at that phone I'm ready

I'm not waking up late I'm not rushing

around I'm not disorganized because I

know I'm gonna get hit in the [ __ ]

mouth there's a there's an art to

getting hit in the [ __ ]

mouth and that is why these things are

important you have to wake up and you

have to give yourself belief you have to

give yourself confidence so that it

starts with that run so after the run I

come home I eat something small how

long's the Run typically at the moment

nowhere Under 12 miles so 12 miles is

the minimum and what are you getting

that done in how long it depends right

now I'm running a heart rate so I'm

running like 815s 830s cuz I'm

retraining right now because is that

zone two for you zone two because of the

leg I had so I'm going back starting

from scratch so anywhere from about an

hour 30 to two hours I run every day mhm

so that's so you're fasted on the

morning up straight out straight out 90

minutes to two hours of running back eat

eat and I'm in the gym so and then after

that um to whatever's on the plan for

the day that's how that works every day

are you still doing your stretching cuz

you've got two hours of you've got two

hours of meditation 90 minutes to 2 of

running MH how long's the gym session

depends 45 to an hour and a half okay

mhm stretching meditation run M

eat gy

M what is that my missing Jennifer oh

yeah yeah forgot about that you cycle as

well yeah how long are you cycling it

just depends I do stationary bike right

now a lot uhuh what do youing is it like

a wat bike or something similar yeah

something similar so I put my bike on a

uh like trainer M and I cycle yep at

least three or four days a week I'll do

that

so that's your day there's no there's

there is no room for anything

else yeah there is a lot of room so

there's 24 hours and I and I use it all

pretty pretty well how's your sleep

what's your sleep L it's really good

okay getting eight hours is something

like that seven eight hours mhm yeah

well you need to with this sort of

volume 78 hours and you're still doing

your stretching stuff every night so

you've got a 4H hour block basically of

stretching meditation that's all in one

block you combine the two right yeah

that's all in one block cool yep that's

one hell of a day it is and it's been

like that for seven years but going back

to what you said before about needing to

cap success MH you wouldn't be able to

fit even one tenth of that in exactly if

you were chasing down exactly yep that's

exactly it so if all that's [ __ ] up

that's why I got a cap success because I

can't put that in and and that's my

growth factor so you know that's that's

my human growth factor you said before

about um how you build up self-esteem

and confidence and stuff and there's

this quote from one of my friends Alex

hosi that says you don't become

Confident by shouting affirmations in

the mirror but by having a stack of

undeniable proof that you are who you

say you are outwork your self-doubt yes

that's that's nailed nailed completely

nailed yes because a lot of people will

in some of these motiv ation people out

here it's It's the funniest thing in the

world to me they'll go and say when you

wake up in the morning pound your chest

you know [ __ ] look at yourself in the

mirror and do all this [ __ ] [ __ ]

I hope it works what works for me is

that everyday resume the things I know

I've accomplished the things I know I've

done real hard work the real calluses on

my mind the real calluses on my hands

that's that's it that you don't need to

pound your chest in the mirror of the

[ __ ] anymore if you have that it seems

like especially with confidence right or

self-esteem there's a relationship

between confidence and competence so

what you're looking to do is try and

have what you believe that you can do be

ahead of what you can do now you're not

looking for it to be delusional you

don't want it to to be able to believe

that you can do something like fly right

but you need to have a relationship

between the two but what people are

asking for is for their confidence to be

so far ahead of their competence that or

without having even been competent at

anything in the beginning and that's

just delusion that's fantasy right well

I believe that you have to build

belief belief is like there's an after

school special belief where the mom says

believe in yourself and that's all great

but there's also a built belief and the

built belief is one where you are

constantly like for me I came from a bad

place How I build belief is through the

the daunting tasks I put myself through

so that's proof positive that I can't

so it correlates and that's how this

piece of [ __ ] kid I once thought I was

built belief by saying hm I was in three

hell weeks I went to Ranger school I

tried out for Delta selection undeniable

stock of proof that is proof

[ __ ] so whenever you think

whenever you think you can't confidence

comes from the thing that you built you

must build belief you must build

confidence it can't be like he um I'm

going go knock that [ __ ] out you got to

look over here and say I can knock that

[ __ ] out it's belief and it's built on

what you put in to yourself another

friend sent me a a message this morning

knowing that we had this this big thing

that we've working toward for a long

time today he said uh nature said I know

of no better life purpose than to perish

in attempting the great and impossible

the fact that something seems impossible

shouldn't be a reason to not pursue it

that's exactly what makes it worth

pursuing where would the courage and

greatness be if success was certain and

there was no risk the only true failure

is shrinking away from life's challenges

na that one also two for two na that one

also man yeah it's that um it's that

dealing with laziness and self-doubt

thing I think

uh and I do wonder how many people use

the look in the mirror pound the chest

stare into your eyes say your

affirmations don't get the results and

then lose

confidence well that's part of it a lot

of it is limit to

Horizons limited Horizons are like I use

me as an example

always I came from a small town in

Indiana where there was a handful of

black

families and a lot of people in that

town when you come from a town of 8,000

people it's like we had a local plant

Great Dane you're like you know what I

want to work at Great Dane and get a

house next to my mom that's what you

know so many of us come from these small

places in our mind that we're not

willing to think outside of only what

we've seen our mind works in such a

small

compartment and one thing I was able to

do was to dream many people but don't

make dreams your [ __ ] m

Master but I was able to dream outside

those [ __ ] Four Walls of that small

town and until you're able to really put

yourself into that dream but don't make

dreams your master that's where you

truly become what you're destined to

become what you mean don't make dreams

your master a lot of people sit back and

they dream about being a sports figure

or dream about being a seal or dream

about being an astronaut all it is is a

[ __ ] dream they don't put the

work behind the dream that dream has

become their [ __ ] Master when you

become the master of your [ __ ] dream

is when you say I want to go be a Navy

SEAL and you say okay I'm gonna lose 106

pounds and less than three [ __ ]

months the dream was the one thing I

thought about and the dream was now gone

now what comes in the dream goes away

and the [ __ ] laundry list of [ __ ]

details and tasks come up got do this

gotta do this gotta do this gotta do

this that's when you become the master

of your dream so a lot of people out

there dreaming Ryan holiday says talking

about the thing and doing the thing V

for the same resources allocate yours

appropriately that's it that's it that's

the way it works as well that's the way

that the brain works you can actually

get these kicks of dopamine by telling

your friends about I'm going to be a

Navy SEAL I'm going to start my training

next week it's going to be great I'm

gonna feel like this feels good it feels

good to talk about that [ __ ] man it

actually makes you feel good makes you

feel proud all that [ __ ] but guess what

happens that alarm clock goes off at

4:00 am. to

train I want to be a seal today or I

don't want to be whatever today I'll

start tomorrow and that's the usual

pattern of people's lives that's why I

talk about clearing out the mind until

you really want to do something you're

always G to be a talker you always get

run your [ __ ] mouth so again with the

audio version of this book you've done

podcasts in between each chapter where

you're recapping what's just happened

and this time you brought guests one of

which was your mother right and you

spend a 35 minute conversation sitting

down with her and talking about the

experiences that she had with your

father and reflecting on that right a

lot of stuff you'd elected to leave out

of the first book so that means there's

been a journey that you've gone through

to get to the stage where both you and

her and collaboratively you felt okay

sharing that publicly right like what's

that process like CU your mom didn't ask

for this I mean you kind of also did you

put a book out there because you thought

it was useful and now millions and

millions of people know about you but

right you know the uh gravity field of

your notoriety is starting to bring

other people in as well so what was the

Journey of getting to that stage like

well it wasn't so much me I had already

laid out you know a lot of [ __ ] about me

that was you know pretty embarrassing

and can't hurt me so for her her that

actually helped her out she said wow if

you had the courage to go out there and

tell people all your [ __ ] you know and

so that process was it it took about

four years of me working with my mom

because you know she was very damaged by

what she went through and so was I but I

knew no one was coming to save me so I

had to go ahead and fix my [ __ ] and she

kind of lived in a different place but

when I wrote can't hurt me it started

waking her up

that hey man why do you care why do you

care so much what people think about you

what you went through why why are you

putting so much so much on other people

and what they may say about you like

there's some stuff I talk about you know

that is pretty embarrassing for some

people but she got to a point in her

life where she was able to you know stop

caring because we all have our [ __ ] no

one that like people it's so funny to me

there be people who are out here

commentating about people who are

[ __ ] up out here famous people are

[ __ ] up and I don't know how they're

able to do that when I guarantee while

your skeletons are not being out there

if I were to open up your [ __ ] door

[ __ ] how how how are you doing

that so I know that about everybody like

people love to talk [ __ ] about somebody

and keep themselves out of it and so we

went through that journey together and

so it allowed her to come out and say

yeah [ __ ] it you know I'm I'm a big

person who I want to get people to

confidence to walk in the room of a

million people and none of them like you

and you just like say [ __ ] you I'm good

and walk out with you by yourself you

helped your mom do that as well and now

she can look at everybody and say yeah I

[ __ ] married a [ __ ] that

choked the woman to death I was in a bad

place I'm good with

that one of the days that you focus on a

good bit in that conversation is the day

that she decided to leave your father

right and take you and your brother with

her MH was there anything that you

learned about upon reflection MH where

both of your experiences uh opened up a

new realization to

you that that was a hard time for her

and for me also I was ready to leave a

long time ago I was just waiting for her

to get the courage to finally leave him

and um

I don't think anything from that

really I think that's where the damage

really began I think for her when she

left it almost her

fight went away and it's kind of like

when you run 100 miles when you sit down

your body can then say exactly what I

was thinking I'm done exactly what I was

thinking the second she

left that the Mind said oh my God

like we can we can be human it's like

PTSD yes we can be human and we're not

fighting anymore and it just swarmed the

demons that all that fight and all that

[ __ ] was keeping away it just came and

it swallowed it swallowed her whole and

it also swallowed me whole but once

again like we're were talking about I

got a chance to watch

her and she set out the ultimate

blueprint on how not to be

so I had a hard time learning growing up

but I was very smart when it came to

human beings a genius because I lived in

such hell I was always studying people

who can I trust who can I not trust

energy I I got really good with energy

can I is this person's energy good is it

bad so I became a genius on human beings

so I studied people all the time studied

all the time she also talks about

considering taking her own life oh yeah

were you aware of that before you

started working toward this book yeah so

yeah she she talked about that a few

times with me you know behind closed

doors and um I'm I'm I'm I'm surprised

she didn't you know there's a lot of

stories that are still ont told that she

probably will never talk about and I'll

never talk about them until she says

it's fine but um yeah it was it was a

bad it was it was a bad way so I I I

give her credit for having the strength

to say okay I need to continue on and

figure out you know what's next for me

which she says the only reason that she

didn't go through with it is because of

you and your brother because she knew

that she would be leaving you in the

hands of this Tyrant that was going to

mistreat you even more badly now that

she wasn't around to protect you yeah

which is a it's beautiful but it's also

kind of a lot of pressure it feels like

a lot of pressure for a child to be the

reason for his mother to to still be

there and it's also a damning conclusion

about the state of her life right that

the only thing stopping you from taking

your own life is these two boys but it's

also beautiful in a way because a lot of

people only have one

thing you don't need a lot of things

sometimes only thing that kept me with

that one step forward was one thing and

so that one thing can get you to two

things to three things to four things so

that was the beautiful thing about that

is that now she's 75 and she's retired

because of that one

thing

how I mean you you're having this

conversation with your mom during the

production of the audio

book you're having a conversation which

is difficult to have in private right

with two microphones in front of you

knowing full well that this is going out

to millions of people it's going to be

scrutinized it's going to be listened to

it's going to be reflected on Y how

difficult is it to watch your mother

opening up about an experience which to

you was traumatic and then reopening

those wounds in front of you and talking

about that for millions of people to

hear oh it's it's hard it's hard

but it's

necessary why to be able to own your

trauma to be able to own everything

about you and look it in the

eye like there's a part in Eight Mile

with Eminem the very end when this white

boy you know [ __ ] trying to make it

in the rap world and getting beat down

and [ __ ] comes from some trailer park

[ __ ] and he's like how the [ __ ] am I GNA

win this rap battle because my best

friend got shot in the foot and this

dude slept with my girl and all this

[ __ ] so what he does to take all the

power from the [ __ ] gonna rap

battle his ass he's

like I'm going to tell you every

[ __ ] thing about me I'm just

going to [ __ ] tell you and that's how

I feel about life and that's how my mom

now feels about life I'm just gonna

[ __ ] tell you everything a [ __ ]

about me I'm not gonna hide I'm not

gonna do none of this [ __ ] and it's a

refreshing feeling when you can get in

front of millions of people get

audiobook and you can go through your

[ __ ] and lay it out and you walk away

there's no more secrets there's no more

secrets like when people say oh hey

Lance Armstrong did you do steroids no

no no

yes while I have nothing I have nothing

wrong with Lance Armstrong or anybody

else just [ __ ] tell the [ __ ]

man and guess what happens to the

conversation it's over it [ __ ] ends

there's a really telling Moment In the

book I think it's my favorite part and

it's not even in this one it's in the

audio book and it's when it's getting

quite difficult with your mom mhm and

you offer her a root out you ask if she

wants to take a break y she says no I

want to keep going so it seems like

she's got a bit of that dog in her as

well oh yeah she had to yeah she had to

one one thing that when you grow up the

way we kind of grew up together that's

how I look at it when you grew up when

she had you and she had J 28 and my

brother at 24 so um after that you know

we grew up together and you got to have

a dog you you have to have a dog in you

man and so you have to have like like my

grandfather called it a stiff upper lip

you better have a stiff upper lip so you

know yeah she has some dog in her she

has some dog in her she has to there's

no other way to make it out here I mean

you can't just always be you know head

down in the sand you gotta learn to pick

yourself up on your own a lot of times

these fights and these battles you got

to be your own [ __ ] coach you got to

be your own motivator and she had do

that several times in her life given all

of this trauma that you go through why

would you choose to go back and see this

Tyrant of a father for one last time it

was the only way for me to move

forward so like a lot of

times if your back is hurting it may not

be your [ __ ] back it may be something

else in your body that's making your

back hurt for

me I'm like man why can't I get past

this [ __ ] hurdle so like I said I'm

always is examining myself every day

what is it what is it well there's only

one thing you haven't examined yet and

it's going back to the Beast going back

to the demon so when I went back to him

I realized that that was the unsolved

mystery was I had to look that man the

eye one more

time like how I studied the that Navy

SEAL talking [ __ ] and lion I got it from

this part right here in the book I went

and I didn't see him any any more as

this

Beast I started doing research on him

found out that his dad used to beat him

really bad so my his his dad would put

him in front of a

furnace open the furnace up with the

Flames coming out and put him right in

front of it have him bare but naked and

he would whip the [ __ ] out of him and

the whole idea of that is if you move

you're going to get burned so stay right

here and take your [ __ ] beat

so what happened with

him those demons from his father went to

my father and he tried to transfer him

over to me I had to understand who my

father was understand where he came from

understand why were you so [ __ ]

brutal to

us I got my answers took those answers

and made myself better from the ansers

about him and so that's why it was

necessary for me to go back not I was

looking for an AP ology so then maybe I