It goes back to like one of our founding

principles, which is attention is more

valuable than capital. Today we have

such a different one for you. Jake Paul,

one of the most recognizable people on

the planet, is in the studio, baby. He's

here with his partner Jeffrey Woo. What

you don't know about Jake, he's probably

one of the best investors of the last

few years with his fund, Antifund. They

back the likes of RAMP, Cognition,

Chronosphere, and many others. and VCs

become influencers faster than like

native influencer like Jake and Logan

could become VCs.

>> This is a show unlike any that Jake has

done before, ranging from politics to

parenting to the next generation of

great investments.

>> You don't want a career politician

running a business. The first startup in

America was America. It's a [ __ ]

business. I take home like nearly 100%.

>> Well, that's pretty [ __ ] great, isn't

it? This was a fascinating discussion

revealing a side to Jake that I don't

think many people have seen before.

>> YouTube like I was done with it. I

didn't like it anymore. Do you think

Sean's doing a good job?

>> Yes, I do. I I think

>> ready to go.

Boys, it is so good to have you in the

studio. I'm so excited that we got to do

this in person. So, thank you for

joining me.

>> 100%, man. Thank you for having us.

>> Now, I want to start on the fund. This

is a VC show first and foremost, but I

actually spoke to John W, who is a

portfolio company of yours, and he said

that you've actually got to start with

just mapping out the Jake Paul business

empire ecosystem to fully understand

what it's like. Can you just give us

like an overview and whoever's best for

this, an overview of what the Jake Paul

business empire looks like today? Yeah.

So, it goes like anywhere from being a

peanut farmer to uh fighting Anthony

Joshua's

um to venture and you know, working with

Open AI on advising them. Um but yeah, I

have I have a ranch where like I

literally sell peanuts. But yeah, like

it's it's it's it's entertainment mixed

you obviously with with the

entrepreneurial vibes, but it's you know

better which is sports gaming. It's

>> spoke to the founder beforehand.

>> Okay. Joey, he's great.

>> Why you really you really talked to

everyone?

>> Oh dude, I did. I was like listen Jake

obviously um you know invested in you

guys. He's like no he didn't. He

co-founded it with me.

>> Yeah.

>> And and so we had a lovely chat. Oh

dude, I'm I I do my work.

>> Yeah. You're locked in. But yeah, this

is why I like the show. I mean, maybe

the way because I it's easier for me to

brag about Jake, but I think the highest

order bit is that I think Jake

represents the next generation of

Americans and what they want to be like.

And I think we have a unique opportunity

to not just be an Jake being an

inspirational model, but also be a

capital force and an attention force to

drive a future and a culture that we

want to see. So I think if you stem from

a just a demographic perspective, right,

the number one job that young people

want to have is to be an influencer.

>> Yeah.

>> I think one of Jake's personal missions

is how to inspire the next generation of

young men. And

>> Jake, are you proud when you hear that

number one job aspiration is to be an

influencer?

>> Yeah. And so it's funny. I've actually

like it's been that way since I was uh

like 18. They did like some company did

a study when Vine and YouTube was like

popping and that and I've known that

statistic for the longest time.

>> Like do you think that's healthy? Cuz I

I I don't think you wanted to be an

influencer.

>> No, exactly. That and that's what I tell

people. They're like, "Wow, do I be like

you?" I said, "Don't like be yourself."

And also like are you entertaining? Like

you have to really ask yourself that

question. And like can you actually do

this? And are you smart? Are you

creative? Do you have the work ethic?

you know, like you know how much work

you just put in just for this one

podcast and people don't really like see

the behind thescenes um things that go

into these videos and it's become second

nature to me and I have a team and all

that stuff but it's still like a

full-time

>> What do people not see workwise that you

wish they saw most?

I don't care for them to see, but um

they don't see the there's like so much

genius in every one second of content

that I make. Like every little

millisecond is calculated and dialed and

thought through. I think that stems from

being a creator from Vine where you had

6.9 seconds. People thought it was six,

but it's actually 6.9. Um, and every

second had to and millisecond had to be

measured out and calculated and changed

and edited around. And so I think that

like meticulous nature of what I do and

create has, you know, obviously helped

me since since the beginning. Um, and

constant almost like

it's almost like politics with my team

where we're like arguing about every

little second or song of the video or

things like that that actually matter.

>> Do you lose the art in the science?

>> Um,

I don't think so. I think the art I

think the si the art happens like when

we're filming the science is like in

post and in the edit and so

you know like

it goes back to the question of like

people want to be influencers but like

are you naturally good at it and are you

naturally like able to talk on camera

and tell this story? At the end of the

day I'm like a storyteller in a sense

and so um that's that's the art and

It's interesting. So are the best

founders and so are the best

fundraisers. What makes a great story?

>> Conflict

and struggle and

um love would be the top three answers

for that. And and I purposely invoke

emotions in people as an entertainer. I

want people to feel like fear or joy or

hate or something. I don't care what

they feel, but I know in certain videos

what I'm gonna make them feel. Like I

posted an edit where like I act like I

was depressed and like you like like

couldn't find meaning meaning in my

life. And so like it went super viral

cuz like people were like, "Yo, are you

okay?" People were texting me like, "Yo,

are you okay? Like I saw your video."

And I'm just like, "No, I'm just I'm

just an entertainer." Like I'm just

making people think I'm depressed. Like

And I think the boldness of of character

too, right? Like I think Jake is very

authentic and passionate about what he

believes in. So I would add that layer.

I think

>> does that ever make your life harder on

the institutional side, but is it

difficult for you where you have to

project confidence to institutions and

with respect Jake is doing content that

might seem a bit down or distracted or

whatever that might be.

>> Yeah. I I I think to me it's it's it's

clearly polarizing, but it's very

obvious, right? It's a double-edged

sword, right? Like Jake has such a big

persona and character that um one can

just be dismissive on first glance, but

I'm okay with that because at end of the

day, we're in the money-making business

and our track record makes money. So, if

it's like, hey, LPs uh don't understand

the marketing and the attention

gathering, it's like, okay, we'll make

other people we'll make ourselves and

other people more money that are a

little bit smarter than you guys. So I

think it's it so I think it's like you

either lean into the brashness or the

aggressiveness or you try to like hide

it. And I think every great story, every

great founder, every great business is

like you lean into strength,

right? Like you want to be the best in

the world. And I think we have a chance

to be the best in the world on our exact

style of investing and company

formation.

>> Is all publicity good publicity? It's

the age-old saying and I never I'm never

sure. Yeah, it's a very interesting

question. There is besides like

a couple of things, you know, like

>> don't mention the island.

>> Yeah. No, that's what I was going to

say. It's like, yo, I was like, bro, is

Epstein's publicity good? Like, no.

Like,

>> not all of it's good. No, it's a it's a

bad saying.

>> Do you regret saying that you were

unconscableable?

>> No. No, not at all.

>> You don't?

>> No, cuz I'm not. Cuz I've never done

anything that is bad, actually. Yeah,

it's

>> like actually bad. Like I've been a

dumb, arrogant kid.

>> Oh, I filmed videos or things around

fire. Like, okay, cool. If everyone's

life was on camera from the time they

were 14 years old and let like like we

put a camera on you 24/7 through your

college years, like what were you doing

at that fra party? Like that's probably

much worse than, you know, me lighting a

pool on fire in in Los Angeles. So

that's that's the thing is I'm

uncancelable because like no one will

ever find or see anything about me that

is actually bad and it's all just like

fake hate. We we were talking about kind

of the business empire at the start. If

we filter that down into like being the

best investor you can be, the immediate

thought I had was why does Venture make

sense? If we can, you know, reports

around the latest fight is you make 70

to $100 million, OpenAI says. Why does

it make sense to do a $30 million fund?

Yeah, I think um if if the 30 mil fund

was like the end goal, it would be like

no, but like we want to run 1020 billion

dollars at some point and look up to

people like, you know, Josh Kushner at

Thrive who started

um with, you know, I think it was four

$5 million. And so um

>> yeah, you have to start somewhere. and

and the you know obviously made a [ __ ]

ton of money for the past fights and as

my career went but my first fight

against uh Deji a local here I guess in

London like I think we made like a

million dollars so like you have to

start somewhere uh to to be able to make

it big.

>> When you think about like the pillars of

venture like how it's done there's

finding there's picking there's winning

and there's helping. Now I may be being

assumptive here and rude but I would

assume that say Jake is the master of

winning and helping on distribution and

then you are the finder and the picker.

Is that correct? I

>> I I mean I think it's really like a true

partnership of one. So I think in terms

of like I think Jake has I think people

underestimate Jake's reps and what he

sees, right? like even just describing

like the nuances of like 6.9 seconds on

a product feature, right? In some sense,

he was a early adopter in all the social

platforms as a creator. So I think that

same skill set in terms of knowing what

is coming around the corner,

understanding consumer sentiment is

essentially the same instinct as us as

VCs being like, hey, you know, this

guy's a winner or this girl's a winner

and their product and their vision,

their roadmap makes a lot of sense. So I

think the picking side I don't think

it's you we shouldn't underestimate

Jake's like taste there.

>> Yeah.

>> And I would argue that with AI making

traditional smart people stuff like

coding in financial analysis as just

metered intelligence. I would argue that

having taste having uh that cultural

vibe and I think that's like one of your

like big edges as an investor. I think

you're just cooler and more with it and

vibe with like the next generation of

founders much better than a Boomer VC.

Um, and I think you deserve like the

success on the platform and your and

your funds. I think that's the the

challenge or the gauntlet that we're

like excited to fight with. It's like I

just saw that Bill Gurley was tweeting

that um you know paid marketing is like

the worst form of marketing and I'm just

like okay Uber like he's most well known

for kicking out Travis from Uber and U

and Uber burnt like tens of billions of

dollars on straightup marketing and just

got to profitability is showing a

quarter of net income positive 14 15

years in. So my sense is that the

software and like the classic smart

people stuff gets commoditized and the

attention the taste the culture side

gets more and more important. So I think

the world goes into our favor versus

away.

>> Keith Rab boy from Kosla and previously

founders fund said that it's really

important to know what we sell as

investors like what our product is and I

quite like that framing. When you think

of the product that you sell founders,

do you sell founders distribution and

how do you think about keeping the brand

and the profile pure and not being like

better partnership and uh sips Margs and

all the other companies oats overnight I

did my work uh that you partner with.

>> Yeah. No, I I I think um each is to each

their own and it's not we're not like

plugging saying like, yo, we're going to

give you distribution in companies where

we don't think we're going to do that.

Uh we can provide

>> you super upfront like, hey, we're not

going to be distributing you on our

platforms, but we'd love to partner with

you.

>> Yeah. And I think there's tons of other,

you know, things to to provide um

just in terms of knowing culture and

marketing and and just information in

general and hey, you should do this, you

should link with this person, this would

be a good access point. There's, you

know, like a religion app that we're

investors in. It's like, okay, do you

want to like, you know, link with

Trump's pastor? Like, I have his phone

number. Like things like that.

>> That is the most random network.

>> It is, but it's like but it's like it's

like

>> Trump's pastor. Uh, yeah, sure.

>> It's like, yo, this we can provide value

and in in tons of different ways. And I

think each company is a different

conversation.

>> What do the quote unquote best VCs even

do? A lot of it's those like in

introductions to revenue sources. Like

we are a phone call away from literally

any executive, any billionaire in the

world. It's like would you rather have a

Jake Paul introduction or some random

boomer suited VC make that intro? The

response rate and the integration rate

is like super high. We can compete with

the guys who've been doing this for 30,

40 years because one, the founders of

those funds have been dead or or or

gone. It's just other guys who got hired

into doing this and I think we have a

fresh take on saying, "Hey, let's

compete."

>> I'd have like a sniper shot latestage

strategy if I was you. Like, and what I

mean by that is just like have 10 of the

best companies that we all agree at late

stage and just aggressively go after

them. You I know you're invested in ramp

for one of them. I think you're an

Andreel, but and I just leverage the

[ __ ] out of the personal brands and put

10, 20, $30 million to work.

>> I think that's actually the correct way

to think about it. I think late stage I

think we have unfair access advantage

and I think our actual our value ad is

actually very valuable too because at

that growth stage they're looking at

IPOs.

>> Yeah.

>> They're looking at mass media branding

and I think if you again look at track

record you can spend millions of dollars

on like some marketing VP or some CMO or

or some agency literally Jake has driven

probably like billions of dollars of

enterprise value and impressions and all

like across all his

in in terms of new media and in some

sense like I see what Mark and Ben are

doing with their podcast media companies

essentially like

>> one thought I had was that can VCs

become influencers faster than like

native influencers like Jake and Logan

can become VCs

>> right like that's kind of like the

battle like Benchmarked acquired Jack

Alman's podcast

um you know A16Z great media platform

>> that's again it goes back like one of

our founding principles which is

attention is more valuable than capital.

>> Okay. So when we think about that we

have early and then we have late stage,

>> right?

>> Great. Got it. And then we have

incubations as well cuz you do better as

well.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So we want to start companies as

part of it.

>> Yeah. not not not too many obviously

like takes a ton of work but um

incubated uh better and and W um and

then my brother's working on something

now and uh obviously like he built Prime

as well. So that that's a part of the

strategy coming in with with ownership,

but also, you know, just seeing a gap in

the market with better. It was all these

sports gaming companies paying

hundreds and hundreds and billions of

dollars in marketing and seeing that

their ads were terrible, their app was

clunky, it didn't make sense. And I was

like, yo, I could build a better app and

promote it better and have better

content. And that's why we created

better. So, better better better. But

like

>> what deal are you not in that you would

most like to be in?

>> Um, a couple that I I want to do I think

we want to do a little bit more in

Europe. So, I think Helsing is cool. I

think uh with geopolitics, I think there

needs to be like a European neoprime for

defense.

>> I agree.

>> Um, we're chatting with Maddie over at

11 Labs. I think they're doing great

stuff.

>> Mattie is amazing.

>> Yeah. But go going to your point, um, we

should I think with the power law of

just like the winners are just super

big. I think it just makes sense to just

try to pick the number ones and maybe

the number tws in every single category.

>> How much time can you realistically

spend on venture?

>> I mean, I spend a lot of time on it. I

think uh people don't realize like how

involved I am and we're constantly on a

day-to-day basis talking, catching up,

texting in a constant flow, weekly

calls, etc., etc. So um very very

involved and flying to SF multiple times

a year meeting on the ground floor with

people

advising the companies that we're a part

of meeting with our you know different

companies etc. So very passionate about

and I and it's because I like it. I

would say I in in a some of the other

things that I do, I don't um spend as

much time like in the weeds, but this is

like something I've always loved since I

was 17, 18 years old. And seeing, you

know, in SF, the Ubers and the Twitters

of the world and Postmates and getting

to see these companies when I was that

young like made an impression on me and

I've always loved it since then. One

thing I find hard is when we sell brand

and we sell media, which is in some ways

what we sell as our differentiator. One

challenging element is I feel relevance

is this constant fight. You constantly

are on a treadmill and you say about

your Jackman's going to Yeah. And Jack's

got a [ __ ] podcast and so does

Sequoia. I mean, everyone has a podcast

and then you have net new people. I

sometimes feel like Madonna and there's

[ __ ] dual leaper at the party. Okay.

I bet you never kindly said I look 36.

Thanks to it. Um, as a proud

28-year-old, I sit here and go, uh, that

treadmill for relevance is hard. Do you

find that treadmill for relevance hard?

>> I don't because I've like broken through

like escape velocity and

just me being me now like keeps me

there. and I have a counterpart

brother. Like we're like uh the the

testosterone Kardashians, right? So like

if I'm not doing something in the media,

he's literally at the flag football NFL

beefing with Tom Brady, the most like

talked about thing in sports for the

whole week, right? So like we go back

and forth and we've built this ecosystem

and we're just differentiated and um in

the right markets in sports in content

in you know YouTube, Instagram, Tik Tok

and we've been at the forefront of it

since foundation. So like I'm in a

different league but I think for other

creators and influencers it's like a

dying market for sure and it's it's very

hard for people to stay in in the no. We

we are seeing more and more creators,

influencers move into investing. What

would you say to them knowing what you

know now?

>> It's a very tough game. And if you like

actually aren't good at it or know how

to do it, then like maybe don't just

like try to do it cuz it's almost second

nature to me because I have vision and

can see like where things are heading.

I'm ahead of culture and these things,

you know, since I was a kid. And so, we

can see where things are going. And I

think it is an actual talent and and

skill set to be in the right rooms, to

know who to talk to, to know where to

spend time,

um, and know how to get what you want.

And so, I would say a lot of people like

can't do that.

>> What do you see now that other people

don't see about culture, about taste?

That's like asking like a

um karate master to like show you all of

his moves.

>> Welcome to the show.

>> I'm not like like uh

very it's almost like instinctual um

>> around the founder or the market

>> both. And culture and like content and

um

I don't know. It's like I think it's

just like a feeling, right? like like

how do I don't know like how do I know

like what video to make, right? Like

it's just like it's become it's become

second nature. I'll give you an example.

>> Raid on videos.

>> Um pretty good. like I can I think me

and my like me and my number one content

guy um before we post a video will

predict how many views it's going to get

>> and like pretty much accurate like 85%

of the time. Really? Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Within like like we'll say like this is

going to get 8.5 million or this is

going to get 30, this is one's going to

get 40. Um so I don't know. It's just

like second nature in a sense. An

example is

boxing

and where where I saw to become the

greatest like

celebrity influencer boxer to the point

where I wanted to become world champion

because I knew that boxing was going to

have a revival in part because of me.

And I saw the attention, the the views,

how much people liked it, the drama and

the money that was in it. And I made the

point to become the best one in it. And

then I excelled out of the group of just

being influencer boxer and went into

like actually, oh, this kid can like

become world champion because I saw

where everything was going and that it

was going to have a revival and be on

the forefront of things like Netflix and

um being able to make, you know,

hundreds of millions of dollars from it

before everyone else. And there was a

reason why all the other influencers

fell behind. I I I always get in trouble

for saying what's on my mind. Do you

ever do you ever do or say [ __ ] and then

go, "Oh [ __ ] I met Anthony Joshua. He's

a big [ __ ] guy.

I I do my push-ups. He's a big guy." Uh

when do you ever say things and then

you're like, "Oh dear, went too far

there."

>> No, I don't think so.

>> You don't?

>> Like in public?

>> When you stand next to him, you're not

actually like, "Oh [ __ ] I shouldn't

have done this one."

>> Oh, no. I think like

>> you're so cool. He's just like, "Nah, it

was fine." No, like even someone

literally came up to me this morning in

the freaking spa area at the hotel and

was like, "Mate, that was amazing." Um,

your It was crazy that you did that, but

you left with your stock higher. That's

what he said.

>> You left with your stock higher.

>> Yeah. Which is like for me it was a

win-winwin across the board fighting

him. And I knew that going into it. Um,

and and I knew that I could actually

like hang in there with him and this the

world would be shocked by my heart and

skill set and even if he was to knock me

out or knock me down, I would just keep

on getting back up.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and so I think that the fight

actually humanized me a bit and people

got to see a different side of me.

>> It's funny. Rahul said he's really

dialed in that it doesn't matter if I

win or lose, attention makes me money

boxing business.

>> Yeah. You you stand by that?

>> Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And and you know, like

it just it's all math, right? Like is it

better to I was more nervous to fight

Gervante Davis. Um because if you lose

to like a tiny person, um people would

be like, "Oh, you suck." So, it's

actually better to lose to a giant. When

we think about kind of culture and you

mentioned AI there in terms of the

tooling, people ascribed that sport is

the most exciting asset class because it

is uh defensible to AI. You're not going

to see robots fighting in the same way

that you'd expect to see humans

fighting. Do you agree with that in

terms of the kind of uh rising stock

price of sport in a world of AI?

>> Yeah, we've been on that side of the the

thinking, but I think things are going

to get weird. So like I can't say for

sure like I that that that's an open

question for me still.

>> What do you mean things are going to get

weird?

>> You know if you if I can put into

you know cognition or or any of these

things and develop my own game that's

personally tailored for me with a couple

clicks of a button. Why would I watch,

you know, the NBA when like this game I

made for myself has all my favorite

things in in it and friends and

storytelling and I made my own World of

Warcraft or Minecraft in a day? Will

that suck away the entertainment? Or I

made my own whole Netflix movie the

exact way I wanted it with certain [ __ ]

in it. Will that personalization take

away from other forms of entertainment

which is sport? Like that's where I mean

things might get weird.

>> Are you excited for the future?

>> Yeah.

>> The answer has to be yes. I

>> love Yeah. Like

>> I I don't know. In all honesty, I'm

quite scared. I'm quite scared because I

think the majority of society will

become unemployed. Most of actually kind

of low-level work I think will be

replaced. I think a lot of white collar

work will be replaced. Um I think we're

facing this massive kind of depressed

society of young people looking for

meaning. We've got um terrible terrible

eating disorders that are worse than

ever. I'm nervous. And then on top of

that, we have world conflict like never

before.

>> Yeah.

>> I always said this like a hundred years

ago, you know, when they were, you know,

coming up with the atom bomb and the

nuke and people were like, "Oh, we're so

scared. Oh, what's going to happen?"

There's always like fear in the

development of, you know, human society

and new technologies. And I'm sure

people were scared of cars at some

point. Like what's this going to mean?

It's going to take my job or I can go

get another job. Like it's you can

either look at it on the positive, but I

believe and obviously it's going faster

now and developing faster, but I I think

humans will figure this [ __ ] out.

>> Yeah, I was I think it's well said. I I

think you have to look at the optimism

and how do you be a beneficiary of this

of this change. So I think we each need

to make a decision. Do you accelerate

and drive faster into it and have a

chance to take the steering wheel or do

you sit back and like be scared and

crash into the wall? So I think

>> well we're in Europe so we we'll we'll

sit back and be

>> you guys are going to crash. I mean you

guys are you guys are

>> that's an option. We'll take that one.

>> You guys I want to take a harder stance.

I feel like Europe I feel like Europe is

like the sick man of of of of the world

right now. I feel like Europe could have

some of the foundational civilizational

like of Western culture that came out of

here, London, Brit, England, right? Um

and it feels that like they're not

seizing the opportunity to lead to

create the future. So I think humanity

is driven by people that seize the

opportunity. And I think you can decide,

are we going to be passive onlookers of

change or are we going to be driving

that change?

>> What opportunity did you not seize that

you wish you had seized?

>> Should I have just like been in the

valley founding, you know, some company

and being uh just more involved in in

tech? Uh but I don't know. I I don't

have like any regrets or nothing

anything comes up like that. But I I do

like the Drake line to where he's like,

uh, if we hadn't made it here, we would

be out in Silicon try to get our

billions on. And I always relate with

that. Like, if I like I think it's a

good line.

>> Does money make you happy?

>> Money buys freedom. And I think freedom

makes people happy. Um, but I think

there is the the famous saying like more

money, more problems is like all all the

way too true. Um, so I think it's a

double-edged sword for sure. Um, there's

a lot more to manage, a lot more stress,

but then there's also a lot more

freedom. And if you want to survive,

it's like no different than than food.

Like mom was a nurse and uh dad was a

roofer. Um,

we we were fine, but like wasn't around

anything like

>> Where'd you get your animalistic drive

from? Yeah, I think uh I I remember a

specific moment where my parents were

getting divorced and my dad had to pay

like a lot of alimony and he was crying.

It was one of the only times I've ever

seen him cry cuz he had to sell like

everything he loved to be able to like

afford living. And I thought to myself

like I never want to be this like crying

father who doesn't isn't able to afford

much and telling his kids we have to

move to a different house and selling

everything that he like I remember he

had to [ __ ] sell his snowboard like

his little shitty snowboard just for

like $150 and stuff like that. And it's

like now I'm blessed to be able to even

just to snowboard. So, I think of small

things like that and that that moment

definitely stuck out to me to be like,

yo, I don't want to be in that position,

so I need to figure out money. We were

chatting before about I said, you know,

I tell my girlfriend about having him on

the show, and I think there's a lot that

the world doesn't know about Jake, but

they think they know from the public

persona. You obviously work with him on

a daily basis. What does the world not

know that you know from the unique

perspective that you have? Yeah, Jake I

think is like a fundamentally a very

kind, generous human. So I think a lot

of the philanthropy supporting young

upandcomers,

you know, you know, anecdotes of like,

you know, friends that are suicidal

coming to Jake for help and just Jake

spending his time and money to just take

care of people, I think is under told.

But maybe that's like a fine way to to

be about it. I don't think Jake is doing

it for PR. I think he just genuinely is

like a very kind, generous human being.

Um, which may be like alternative to

like the, you know, I'm a boxer beating

talking [ __ ] to Mike Tyson type of a

character that he that he projects.

>> Are you ever just sitting there like,

"Oh, no. No, you be nice. Don't say that

to Mike."

>> No. I I think Well, one, I'm

>> We're selling fights, dog.

>> I'm in it. Yeah. I think we're thick as

I'm just in it. So, like I'm just I'm on

the [ __ ] roller coaster.

Like, yeah.

>> Yeah. I I'm laughing, dude. No, no, no.

But I think I think part of poor rel I

think I have like a troll tendency

myself. I just I kind of like seeing

kind of the absurdity or the chaos of

just like seeing funny things happen in

the world. I think there's like an

amusement part of just like this is

interesting. I get to perceive an

interesting experience. I want to see

more interesting stuff. And if Jake is

like out there making interesting things

happen in the world, that's really funny

to me um on a personal level. And then

maybe that's the second point in terms

of just you know working closely just

I'm very impressed with the endurance

and the context switching ability maybe

I I think I think we were we got to

spend like three hours with the

president a couple weeks ago and I and I

maybe not to make the direct comparison

but I was just very impressed with the

president just like on and like contact

switching really hard remembering

people's faces having good conversations

going to rally dancing going on a doing

a Tik Tok dance and just like boom boom

boom boom boom just like switching and

being in flow constantly. I think that's

one thing that I see some parallel. Like

I think Jake's just raw energy output is

very very high and I can speak to that

as being, you know, top of my class at

Stanford, graduated computer science,

honors and singin, had a perfect SAT

score, like you know, I I've seen the

caliber of like quote unquote smart

people and like the endurance and energy

levels. And I think it's like Jake's

endurance and energy is like very very

high. And then I think the other part

that I think is like an interesting

nuance is that you can switch from being

like a celebrity getting like paparazzi

when we're out in LA to like talking

[ __ ] as a professional athlete and then

but actually having to train like twice

a day like eight hours a day doing the

recovery then jumping on business calls

with literally like the most famous CEOs

have been on your show, right? Like

advising them on their marketing

strategies,

>> sitting down with Sam.

>> Yes. I mean, I would say like Sam is

Yeah, Sam is great. Like, we love Sam.

But I think that context switching

because I think people just see like

snapshots of Jake and it's like, okay,

you just see like the full 360. It's

like, man, cool. Like, I'm inspired by

the level of context switching and the

flow to be able to move with all these

different circles.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, thank you for the nice words.

Um,

yeah, that I think a lot of people don't

know [ __ ] about me, which is like e even

if they watched everything or know like

you still haven't met me or spent time.

I think the the number one thing that

people say to me after like meeting for

the first time is, "You're a lot

different than I expected." I'm like,

"Oh, so you thought I was a [ __ ]

[ __ ] retard?" Like, I don't know. My

bad, bro. Like, cool.

You mentioned getting to spend a couple

of hours with the president. Um, this

was from friends of yours, not from me,

so I'm I'm not stoking any flames. Here

they are. Um, would you like to run for

office or be involved in politics a lot

more? Um, I wouldn't like to, but I feel

like it it could be needed at some

point. I I've always said like it Jeff

was actually the first one that

mentioned it like 6 years ago or so. He

was like, "You're you're gonna like be

the president and like you should run

for president." And I was like and then

it like slowly became

less of a joke and like people actually

other people started saying it to me and

then I get I just hang out with Trump

and like the I go on stage and do a

speech off of off the top and the first

thing he says to me on stage when I turn

around is, "Oh, you're going to run for

office someday." And like then I we go

backstage and he's like, "You should be

the president." and then he like

endorses me. But to answer the question,

it's like I would only want to do it if

I was a the best person for the job and

if b there was like someone like uh

Camala Harris like running that like

could have the potential to like ruin

the United States and I would have to

like go and oppose them and yeah save

the country. But I don't really want to

sign up for that workload if I don't

have to and if there's someone better to

do it. And that's that's how I feel

about it

>> with I I'm in the UK and I'm in London.

Um do you think Trump's doing a good

job? Iran is is a challenging situation

he's got himself into. Deglobalization

is a thing. Do you think he's doing a

good job?

>> Yes, I do. I I think he um

is arguably one of the best presidents

the United States has had in in this

term. there's so much propaganda and and

things, but at the end of the day, um

he's he's doing an incredible job and

there's always going to be criticisms. I

mean, that's why again, like I wouldn't

maybe want to sign up for the job

because no matter what you do, people

are going to think they have a better

answer, but we're not in the room. I

believe in him as a person and as a

human being. And so, I'm not gonna maybe

agree with everything he says or does.

And you know, like I think he just like

said, "I'm glad someone died on the

internet." Like I don't agree with that.

But overall, that's my [ __ ]

president. I'm going to back him and

support him and say that he's doing a

good job 100%. Like to me, I think he's

like a very founder president, right?

Like I think he's he actually makes bold

decisions and tries to like mold the

future where I think a lot of

politicians are just very much dictated

by the flows of polling. there's a

boldness and a leadership quality there

that I think in a very globally

challenging interesting time it's like

do you want your leaders to have

boldness to take some risks or do you

have someone that's more passive and I

think that's like uh something that

from a venture side like you want to

back founders and leaders that will be

able to take risk right like venture

capital is a risktaking business

um and I think there's like a very

unique time in history of are we're

going to have a multi-polar world. Are

we going to have US hedgeimonyy continue

for another, you know, century? I I

think it's an open question, right? So

then it's like which founder, which CEO

do you want to be in that seat? And I

think you'd you'd likely again from a

venture capital hat on, you'd want to

bet and put your money or your support

to the to a bold, fearless leader.

>> Yeah. And like you don't want a career

politician running a business. the the

first startup in America was America.

Like it was it's it's a [ __ ]

business. And so you don't want a career

politician running things. And I think

it's a a very difficult position to be

in. And I think no matter what you do as

president, any of the terms, any of the

US presidents, like there's always going

to be the 50 to 60% of people that are

like, "No, they suck. You s

that shouldn't have done that. I have a

better solution like okay buddy then go

[ __ ] do it then become president and

[ __ ] fix it. So that's my that's my

thing on it.

>> We released a show today with Matt

Steman who's the president and CBO of

Andreal and I asked him do you feel any

moral responsibility for how your

products are used in conflict zones like

Iran and he said no we support

democratically elected governments only.

So they are voted for by the people and

what they choose we support because they

are democratically elected. Do you agree

with that as a stance and like if you

think about anthropic disagreeing with

like the Department of War and the

Pentagon, do you think that's wrong?

>> I mean I think I think generally I think

where does that nexus of decision-m go,

right? Like do you want an unelected

tech executive making that call or your

democratically elected representative

making that call? So I think from a

fundamental like culture governance

perspective like I would like to have

the ego to be like hey I'm smart in the

present to make a game time nuclear

decision like I feel it's a very

egocentric to say that hey I built a

tech I get to make the decision for the

rest of the world. If we believe in

democracy which we do then it's like

okay then the democratically elected

leader gets that call. To me, it's if

you want to talk about taking that like

war making decisions away from our

government,

okay, like we could have some weird

techno

fascist thing, too. Like

like I it's a competition of ideas.

Maybe like maybe that does happen in

other countries and other regimes. Like

I think there's like a breed of

arrogance around like, hey, I think I'm

just smarter than everybody else, so I

get to make the call versus like

We're in a society with like a lot of

constituents and we vote for someone to

make that call.

>> Yes. And and I think like the human

evolution is inevitable. So like we're

going to these systems anyway. So if

Andor wasn't going to build it then okay

is someone who is evil in the wrong

hands in another country going to build

it? Then we don't have it. So it's

needed. But I think also their mission

is to

make things safer for humans. That's

like the autonomous side of it. And so

if something needs to be done then then

yeah maybe less people will actually die

because of their technology.

>> We mentioned SAM, we mentioned Open AI.

They very um I don't know how to say it,

maybe opportunistically took advantage

of it and swept in and provided a

solution. You're the master of content.

You're the master of storytelling. He

then got heat for it. What would your

advice be to him in terms of the

messaging, the coms

around the heat that he gets for jumping

in?

>> Who gives a [ __ ]

Like, seriously.

>> Seriously.

>> Yeah. Who gives a [ __ ]

Someone has to do it. And rather to be

in the rooms and and a part of that

thing than than out of it.

So, I mean, at the end of the day,

I I I don't have advice for him. Like,

he he's doing what he thinks is best in

his decision making. Um, and there's

going to be repercussions. And again, I

think we live in a society where no

matter like what someone does, they're

going to be hated or loved or hated or

loved or hated or loved. Um, so at the

end of the day, you just have to make

decisions and and march on. My sense is

that the tech leaders are becoming more

and more politicians because they have a

bigger bigger impact on culture on

society. Like Sam is in that position.

He has a lot of information. He's trying

to make his best decision. My only

secondary comment on it would be show

the human side of himself more, right?

Because I think that I think President

Trump does a very good job of showing

like the raw human. And I think

President Obama also, I think, had that

similar quality on on the other side of

just showing like a humanity to his

decision-m.

>> You said about kind of showing your

humanity. You got me in trouble this

weekend because I said again to my

girlfriend Jake Paul and honestly I was

expecting maybe I don't know mixed mixed

response and she's like, "Oh my god, did

you see the video of him supporting his

girlfriend at the Olympics? Oh my god,

would you do that for me? Would you

I was like, "No [ __ ] way. I'll be in

the office. Are you kidding?" I knew it.

I knew it. See, why can't you be more

like him?

And I'm like, "For [ __ ] sake, I'm

joking." And for backtrack, you know,

when you joke and it's like kind of not

funny and you're like, "Oh, fuck." Um,

it is something I wanted to touch on,

which is like I think relationships are

really an art. What's your biggest

advice on how to have an amazing

relationship but also crush it in [ __ ]

where do we start content boxing

investing? What's your advice?

>> I think in relationship it's

communication and I think the you know

you should always in the relationship

try to be the 60% like if it's 6040 you

you and your partner should be both be

fighting to be the 60%. And I think that

and be there for each other and do more

and and and love more and support more

and like we should always be kind of in

a competition of like who who massaged

who today, who gave the first who wrote

the love letter. Like if if if my fiance

writes me a love letter, I'm like I'm

going to write a better one back to you.

So, and then she'll write another like.

So, I think that friendly competition in

a relationship is good and communication

letting them see you like every side of

you and fully who you are. Um, I think

that's very very important from like

early on like tell them everything from

like day one. I think that builds the

the trust and the foundation.

>> Is there a side of you that you're most

scared to share?

>> I'm not really afraid. I think I've

talked a lot about my my struggles more

so in the past because that I was I was

struggle struggling more um when I was

younger in like childhood fame living in

Los Angeles being surrounded by the

wrong people. But I do think like

dealing with mental health like my mind

can become a like crowded and dirty and

stressful place and it's a practice uh

every day to to manage it and I think

that's where I've like fallen in love

with breath work and me meditation and

spiritual journeys with iawaska toad

mushrooms all of these things to learn

more about myself and and my mind. Um,

and so I would say like mental health is

always something that can fluctuate for

me and

it's something that like personally I

have to actively manage.

>> Do you know when it's going down?

>> Yeah. I I don't know. It's like uh it's

always different. That's the weird part

about it. I think it's like not

something you can like fully grasp. Um,

and sometimes you like don't know until

you're like in the thick of it and

you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I haven't been

taking care of myself mentally."

>> Do you hate Sorry, I'm I'm an addict in

everywhere. I don't drink anymore cuz

did that. I'm very grateful because it

makes me good at what I do. I'm so

addicted to what I do.

>> Are you happy or sad to be an addict? I

think being addicted to to working and

like constantly doing something. But

like I do wish sometimes I like think

about what it would be like to like feel

normal where like I don't have to

constantly be like progressing and doing

things. But I don't know like this is my

body. This is my brain. This is like my

destiny. This is who I am. So like I'm

not I'm I'm very happy about that. But

it is a double-edged sword sometimes.

Like you think I'm addicted to work is

what you're saying.

>> Well, I mean with the greatest of

respects, I think it takes one to no

one. And I think to compete and I think

I think to compete at the level that you

do as quickly as you do in sport and to

fight Anthony Joshua, Mike Tyson with

the little ramp time you have, you have

to be bluntly psychopathic to get there

that fast in a brilliant way. I'm saying

this in a good way. Uh to do the

multitude of things that you do at the

quality that you do, you have to be an

addict. Again, I think we kind of mis

mischaracterize

addiction bad. And it's not always bad.

It can be. I think every top athlete is

an addict. You have to be to be the

best.

>> Would agree 1,000%. I just think it's

interesting the way you describe it as

like an like but but you're right. Yeah.

100%.

>> What do you think about your training?

What was nuts about your training?

>> I mean, it's just so intense and

demanding. And what's the most

demanding?

>> I would say the track work. Like sprints

at the track is just brutal. And my

coach just makes me run and run and run

and run. And like my heart feels like

it's going to pound out of my chest. And

your body like has like a central

nervous system reaction because of how

hard you're pushing yourself. And it's

like very uncomfortable. And then just

the day in and day out and then you just

like get lost and counting on the days

until the fight and you're just like the

monotony of it I think can be very

demanding and and difficult and dry and

boring and lonely. I mean they say

boxing is the the loneliest sport for a

reason. Um and and it's it's it's very

true. You're in there by yourself.

>> Are you thinking when you're in it?

>> Yeah. But I mean I guess it becomes like

a sort of flow state.

Uh but but yeah, it's it's like a super

high fastpac thinking match. And I think

that's where I told people like why I

got good at boxing so fast is like

pattern recognition. And I just think of

it like recognizing patterns in the

person that I'm fighting and then being

able to expose it and doing it at the

right time. And it's very calculated. I

see you dropped your hand in the first

round after you threw this punch. I'm

going to wait for you to do that again

in 2 minutes and hit you with the right

punch to counter that. And adding those

things up over round by round and

remembering everything that they're

doing and their habits and all of that

is like a just pattern recognition game.

I mean, that's why I think I got good at

it is cuz it's just my mind is better

than other probably every boxer. If I

had been doing it my whole life, I'd be

the the best boxer in the world for

sure.

>> Who have you not fought that you'd like

to fight?

>> Uh, I think that the one that like would

just be

the only one that would ever come close

to the Tyson numbers is is me versus

McGregor,

which would be fun. What number would

you do it for? McGregor.

Good question.

>> 150.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's at at least worth

that.

>> Yeah,

>> that's like minimum probably. Um, but

that's a good number, you know? So, like

>> when you get 150, how much do you

actually take home after all the

mid layer, mid layer, mid layer? It's

like an Andrew SPV, you know, with a 30%

SPV and a this and a this and this.

Jake's a good businessman about 10

shackles home.

>> I take the most home out of any boxer.

Like I have the best setup in in boxing

because I'm my own promoter and I'm the

one negotiating with the platforms. Um

and then I I don't have

a lot of people involved. It's just me

and and Nikisa on the boxing side of

things. Um,

>> and so you'll take home like an 80%

versus Eddie Hearn will take home 50%

normally.

>> No, I take home like nearly 100%.

>> Well, that's pretty [ __ ] great, isn't

it?

>> I was I was going to say like not to get

in to pocket watch Jake, but I think

he's Yeah. Like he's smart and

structured.

>> The percent I give is to my own company.

>> I think you're missing a content thread.

I think you should do something for the

partnership. Yeah. which is when you

train for your next fight, you should

bring Jeffrey to every session with you.

And everything you do, Jeffrey's got to

do.

>> I I'm down, but I'll puke out pretty

early. Like I've done some workouts with

Jake,

>> bro. I mean, yeah, like it it's it's not

fun. And it just keeps on getting

harder. That's what it's also like nice

about boxing, but also not nice, is that

it's like an never ending challenge, and

it only gets harder as you continue to

fight the best and the best. So, final

final one before we do a quick fight.

Why does the money matter anymore? I

didn't mean that badly, but like kind of

150, but after 90 and after all the

other stuff, like, you know, you're kind

of flying private anyway, you probably

got a Gulf Stream anyway. Like, why does

it matter?

>> Yeah. No, it doesn't um in a lot of

ways, but like I think on the boxing

side specifically, there's still things

that I want to do in terms of goals, and

they don't have to do with money. I I

want to become world champion. Um, and

>> you really do.

>> Yeah. just for the story, like just to

inspire kids that I was like the most

hated, the most doubted, the biggest

underdog, the YouTuber, the Disney kid.

And if I can become world champion, I

think it would be the most inspiring

sports story or one of the most

inspiring sports stories that in modern

day history that I can inspire kids that

even if all the odds are stacked against

you, like look what I did and you can do

something.

>> Did you ever doubt the next transition?

I've seen everyone always said, "Oh, the

YouTuber, oh the Disney Store." Did you

ever doubt internally in your head? I

know we always tell the world, "No, no,

no, I'll be great.

No, for sure I did. Um, you YouTube like

I was done with it. I didn't like it

anymore and

was running into a lot of issues just

with like demonetization. It just became

a nightmare and it was causing so many

problems and I was in Los Angeles and I

didn't like what I was doing. I was

like, I need to do something else. Um,

but first I had to stop doing YouTube. I

literally stopped filming and I noticed

a lot of times in life you have to like

create space for something else to come

in. Um, and that's just the way life

works. And so I had to literally stop

and there was like a space where I was

trying to do things and maybe a little

business over here

music. I was making songs and then I I

like fell in love with boxing out of out

of nowhere. But there was a time where I

was like, I don't know what the [ __ ]

going on. And and that was when I was

like 21.

>> This really is a final one. Pretty quick

fire. You can only be and Jeffrey I know

which way you want him to answer this

one. You can be number one in the world

at boxing, at content creation, or at

investing.

>> Investing actually. Yeah.

>> Genuinely.

>> Yeah. 100%.

>> Why is why

>> it's it's I think the something that I

can do forever like and it's really

enjoyable and I really love like being a

part of the the cuttingedge things in

technology and like advancing society

and human evolution and being able to

meet with the and talk to and be friends

with the smartest people in the world. I

think it scratches my itch in my brain.

I think like I'm I'm sapiioexual in that

sense.

>> I had actually no idea what he would

say. But I think

but I think even like content, right?

Like I think all the these things feed

into each other, right? And I think

again

>> they genuinely do when he Sorry again to

but when he's crushing at boxing, when

he makes better content, the investing

will be easier.

>> 100% 100%. And I think it's okay to just

like founders are okay to say to bad

customers or not tackle certain markets.

I think it's okay to be like, "Hey, you

LP, you get to allocate your money where

you think you can maximize returns. If

you think other people will do it

better, like great. Let's just see the

numbers in a couple years. Let's

compete, right?" Like I I think

>> I know you tweeted to one of my friends,

Jason Lmin, you see this guy?

>> Yeah. Know, we said we're going to have

more aum buddy.

>> I was just like,

>> "We're coming for you, buddy.

>> Um, we're going to do a quick fire."

Jake, you said about making room for

things in life. Would you like kids?

>> Yeah, that's like my number one goal,

honestly. Uh, that's what I think life's

all about. I I'm can't wait to be a

father. Create my little best friends

that I get to hang out with every day.

>> Jeffrey, what's the best performing

investment so far by multiple?

>> Um, I think a couple from our our fund.

Uh, you mentioned Raul Aerodome. That

was a 10x in 18 months. Rolled a lot of

that stock in the flock safety which is

crushing. Rahul's now the chief strategy

officer there. Um poly market is a good

early one. But just our incubations

right like we're at the ground floor

those like better w crushing it.

>> Um

>> if you can crush better with a high

ownership that's where you really make a

lot of [ __ ] money.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, it's exciting. So I think with

you know the expansion in the prediction

markets and all of this stuff I think

we're excited about the opportunity

ahead. But yeah, but even just on the

personal side was a angel invest in

ramp. So that's like a at a 50 mil entry

value. So that's like a whatever 300x on

a on a personal side.

>> Jay Jay dinner's on him.

>> Yeah,

>> that's so good. That's [ __ ] a

wish I was. Do you want to hear

something funny? I met Eric Lyman when

he was doing Parabus and then the night

before he came out with Ramp. He was

like, "Do you want to invest in my next

thing?" And I was like, "Yeah, no."

Like, "Parabus wasn't that big, but good

luck."

>> Yeah.

>> No. So, Parabus was my first angel

investment ever.

>> No way.

>> Um, I went to a high school summer camp

at MIT. It was like a selective summer

camp called RSI with uh Kareem and Zach

Frankl

>> and uh they were they went to Harvard. I

went to Stanford. So, I was like their

Silicon Valley plug. I gave them their

recommendation from Parabus to Y

Combinator.

>> Oh, wow. And I was like, I don't really

know what I think it was probably like

24 at at the time.

>> You could have like co-founder of ramp

basically with that as the entry funnel

into that.

>> I mean, I should have

he wouldn't be sitting here with me

today like [ __ ] Jake Paul.

>> Jake, what's the most expensive item

you've bought that you've never used? I

mean, the the first thing that comes to

mind is like my my Ferrari has like a

100 miles on it and I think it came with

like

60.

>> How much was it?

>> Uh like 800,000.

>> You just don't like it?

>> No, I'm just like I have too many cars

in other ones as well and there's a lot

Yeah. So, I'm building a racetrack so I

can use these cars.

>> I've heard about this at the ranch.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that that's I'm like, bro, why

do I have these cars if I can't drive

them? But like I can't it's not fun for

me to drive them on the roads because I

can't like rip it. So that's probably

the thing that comes to mind.

>> Well, maybe we can cross a 100 miles

soon then on that Ferrari.

>> Let's [ __ ] go, bro. Let's

>> I need to get my You very kindly

suggested driving on the track before,

Jeffrey. I don't have my license.

>> Yeah,

>> actually.

>> Well, it's a private track, so Jake can

maybe bless you. Just

>> Why don't you have your license?

>> Um, well, in London, do we don't need to

drive, do we? Because we have Uber and

it's a city and so

>> autonomous cars soon so no one needs to

drive.

>> You just never need to drive.

>> Jeffrey,

what fund product do you not have today

that you would most like to have? Could

be growth fund, could be fund of funds,

could be um secondary fund, could be

credit, you name it. What do you not

have the advice?

>> Um no, I think you just before the show

like I think we've just been scaling up

AUM, so we're well within nine digits

now. Um, I think Jake and I I are very

interested in the public markets.

>> How does that look in a product? Like

you guys do a public fund.

>> Yes. I mean, basic I mean I I think I

guess the way to think about it is that

um one of the edges that Jake brings to

the table is mass distribution,

right? And I think the public markets

are just, you know, trillions of dollars

of mark of assets out there that we

could prosecute against. So I think it's

again goes back to like the start. It's

just like, okay, if we don't set

limiters in terms of our ambition and

our skill set, like you play the largest

markets.

So, uh, let's let's keep keep playing.

>> Axe Capital, watch out. Um, when I say

high performance, Jake, who's the first

person that comes to mind and why?

>> I thought of Michael Phelps, I guess.

>> I don't know.

>> I love Michael Phelps because he dispels

the [ __ ] that you need to have a

break. You need to have a rest day.

>> Yeah. I just think of like greatness at

the highest level and

it's it's measurable and so I think

that's why it comes to mind and like you

can't like necessarily

measure like okay this is the greatest

investor but like that's in that time

like who is the best right now and

that's not like super measurable um but

that's I think why Michael Phillips came

to mind final one for both of you and

you have to give a different answer. If

we sit down in 10 years time, how would

you define it has been very successful

as a venture fund as an investing house?

you want to start or

>> Yeah, I mean we we making our LPs very

wealthy as as well as our ourselves and

and being a part of shaping history and

shaping the greatest companies in the

world and um yeah making billions of

dollars doing it for for everyone and

for ourselves.

>> Yeah, I think it's well said. I I would

f like my take on it would be focused on

there's probably like a hundred

humans over the next 10 years that will

change history and we want to be

supporters, comrades in arms in the

trenches building like the

civilizational changing companies and

the people that are you know at the

ground floor doing it. So if we can be

associated and and friends with you know

a large portion of that 100 people that

would be a huge honor. Guys, listen.

This was such a joy to do. Jay, I'm so

glad that you'd sit down with a 36-y

old. Really appreciate it. Me and

Jeffrey, I mean, he went to university

and I'm 36, so it's a tough one.

>> Yeah, I'm going to regret that one for a

long time.

>> I mean, this guy Stanford, he's smart.

>> Yeah. No, he's great.

>> I'm going to regret the 36.

>> I'm going to regret saying that to you,

but but someone told me that once.

They're like, "Oh, I think and this was

when I was like 24. They were like, "Oh,

I think you're like 35." And I was like,

"That's [ __ ] up.