I'm David Tobin. I'm here live at the

capital in Sacramento. We're reporting

on AB 2047. It's a bill that wants to

take away your right to 3D print. We'll

talk more about that and the new

adoption clinic down the street after

this. How's that? [laughter]

>> If you can't tell me the intent of this

shape, then we have nothing. Because any

lawsuit, any case in court that this

would apply to, you would have to say,

"What is the intent of this shape?" And

if you can't prove the intent of this

shape, there's no case. If I have

something on my computer or my printer

or my floor that looks something like

someone thinks is bad shape, that means

they're going to take me to court,

arrest me for the bad shape, and then I

will have to come up here and they will

have to look at that bad shape and say,

"That's going to shape jail. That's a

bad shape." But that's not reality, and

that's not how this works. And this is

part of the absurdity of some bills out

there. But looking at all of you here,

everyone that's here, everyone that's

watching at home, everyone that's a part

of this, look at this. Look at all these

everyone at home. I want you to look at

all these people that flew in from all

over the country, from all the place.

Lewis came in from Austin. All these

people here came out, all different

walks of life, businesses, different

layers of education, all sorts of stuff.

But it's because they care and they're

actually making a difference and their

voices are being heard. And this is

going to keep getting teeth knocked out

of it. The bill's been amended twice.

It's been amended twice. I don't know if

this will work with your focus, but I

want to show the eyeball.

>> Sure, I'll try.

So, if I hold that there, does that

work?

>> Yeah, I got it. I got it. The All right.

So, this is an eyeball completely 3D

printed from the Mayo Clinic. This is a

glass eyeball. It's been polished.

And then you can see the back of it.

There's a cylinder for where it's

mounted.

That cylinder

would be considered illegal by this bill

because you can't tell the intent of a

shape. And you see that little cylinder

there. If you scale that cylinder up or

not, you know, is that a good cylinder

or a bad cylinder? Click the like button

if it's a good cylinder. Click the like

button if it's a bad cylinder. See, it's

crazy, right? Oh, here we go. I got to

go.

>> We did outlaw the printing of ghost

guns. Um the we've seen across the state

that they continue to be printed. It's

um it's a hard thing to stop unlike our

very strong laws that require um

manufacturers to put you know numbers on

guns. Make sure that you get a license

for it. Guns that are sold through

licensed dealers. These are printed in

people's homes and we are not able to

track them. Um and so we know they

continue to be printed. And so, as I

mentioned, New York passed this

recently, and it allows for us to put

technology on the front end that stops

the components from being printed. I may

be wrong, but um in order to allow for

the printing that people are talking

about here today, I don't know that it

will be foolproof in preventing all

printing, but uh we are going far in

making sure that we can stop as many

ghost guns from being printed as

possible. And I

>> the thing is David was getting along

very well with the Moms Man action

people that were sitting next to him.

like they were actually

>> like very civil in spite of the fact

that they disagree on on this issue very

much and I really appreciated being able

to see that they actually could get

along.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Gives me hope for society.

>> Yeah, definitely. Though we disagree on

on a lot of issues, we can still have a

civil discussion.

>> I guess I should ask what your cause

was. Uh

>> oh. Our cause was people are not allowed

to wear black cardigans. [laughter]

>> Okay, let's see.

>> So, what are we doing here today? All

right. So today we're here at the

judiciary in California at the state to

talk about bill AB 2047. It's a bill

that wants to regulate 3D printing. The

crazy thing about this bill is that

everything in the bill that they're

trying to make illegal was already made

illegal in 2022. Two bills were passed

that made the premises legal and

according to the Department of Justice,

those crimes are down 31% statewide. On

top of that, 50% in Los Angeles. That

same Department of Justice saw this bill

when it was going through appropriations

and put it in suspense because they said

the bill uh technology is not possible.

And they're really concerned about all

the First Amendment violations like

prior restraint and compelled speech.

We're talking about an object, right?

Can you tell the intent, let alone

criminal intent of an object, let alone

an ambiguous object that you don't know

the shape of or what it's going to do?

It's like a piece of paper or a knife or

a hammer or even a Can I give this to

you? Thanks. Or even like a fish, right?

If someone microwaves a fish, we don't

get mad at the fish or the microwave. We

get mad at the person that microwaved

it. It's the same thing. And we've met

with the assembly members office. We've

met with every town twice. Everyone in

the 3D printing industry, engineering

industry has been reaching out to them

and giving them this exact same

information that you can't tell intent

of a shape and that these laws are

already illegal. And what they're trying

to do by coming up with this blocking

technology, it's not possible. Every

company on the planet has said this is

not a thing because you can change it.

You can modify and do all sorts of

different stuff. And that's just not how

the science works. And we've met with

their staffers. Last week I went and met

with the staffers of a whole bunch of

the senators and brought them a variety

of 3D printed items. For some of them it

was the first time they saw something 3D

printed. For others they knew exactly

what it was. In Senator Weiner's office,

his staffer was the captain of her first

robotics team. So they understand 3D

printing. And we're not trying to scare

people by saying all this technology is

going to disappear if you mandate this

bill. But if you ask for something

impossible to exist, it's not going to

happen. And we're not trying to use

weird stats like 3,000% or 1,000% that

they use. Um that stat that every town

loves to use is referring to 30 3D

printed items found at the scene of a

crime. And then a couple years later

they found 300 items at the scene of a

crime in a study that every town did.

They don't tell you whether it was

fired, what it was, or anything like

that. And it's really strange because

we're dealing with math here. We're

dealing with science. We're dealing with

a known quantity that the whole world

can look at and understand. And this

just isn't the way.

>> Can you explain when they say that we

found these items 3D printed at a crime

scene? Where do they tell you what the

item was, how it was used in the

commission of the crime, any of that

data? Like what data is there?

>> None of that data is actually here. So,

like when they say a 3D printed item

found at the scene of the crime, this

could literally be a a paper clip for a

paper airplane.

>> It could be um a silencer that was

plastically made and attempted and

didn't work. It could be a lower for a

gun. It could be a accessory to hold

clips. It could be all sorts of things

for a firearm. I think that's the thing

is like you look at these studies and

they don't say, "Oh, there's this." In

the in the United States, there have

been zero

deaths, murders from a 100% 3D printed

gun, ever. Never recorded. Have people

modified weapons with 3D printing?

Absolutely. Have they modified it with

wood? Yes. With metal? Sure. All sorts

of things are made. These kits are

modifiable. You could go to Home Depot

and make a firearm for 20 bucks very

easily right now. This is an attack on

an industry because it's great

clickbait. I there's going to be a

million um actually people in the

comments saying but actually what

there's going to be all the I'm actually

people talking about the United

Healthcare CEO and the 3D printed gun.

So can you address those for people who

are not familiar with this because two

weeks ago I would have been that I'm

actually person.

>> Sure.

>> So yeah I mean there's other instances

where people say oh they had a 3D

printed gun. I think what we really need

to differentiate is what a 3D printed

gun is and a ghost gun is. A 3D printed

gun would be a gun that is completely 3D

printed from all 3D printed parts. I

personally don't want to put an

explosive in plastic in my hand. And

none of those have been used to murder

anyone ever in the history of this

country that's been recorded by the ATF,

DOJ, or anyone. A ghost gun is a gun

that has no serial number. Like when

you're watching a movie and you see the

guy filing the gun, they're filing off

the serial number. That's what it is.

So, you can modify a gun to have no

serial number and then it's untraceable,

which makes it a ghost. Um, I'm David

Tobin. I'm the executive producer of the

show 3D Printing Nerd. I'm also the

executive director of the Community

Manufacturing Initiative. It's a

nonprofit and we bring engineering and

educational resources to programs all

over the world. And I'm fighting this

because I hate bullies and I hate people

that just arbitrarily

put things out there to get attention.

If you look at the headlines and here

here's the core of this, right? So,

here's a core of this. If you're you

don't know anything about 3D printing,

if this is your first shot at it, first

shot at it, first look at 3D printing,

it's a whole new world. And if you're in

the middle of your daily life going

about it and you see someone say, "Oh my

gosh, a kid can press a button and make

a gun and go do bad things." That would

terrify me, too. But it's not true.

That's not a thing. There is nothing's

going to happen like that. And

technology is going to get better and

there's going to be all sorts of new

inventions. And so we need to be

cognizant about what we're doing now is

how it will affect things in the future,

too. Future proofing legislation in a

way trying to. So essentially what

they're trying to do is say that they're

going to put software on your computer,

your 3D printer, or your network. And by

the way, that could be your network at

your school, your university, a wider

network that will read everything you're

sending to a 3D printer and identify the

shapes they feel are bad, the bad

shapes, you know, the bad triangles

versus the good triangles and the happy

squares versus the mean squares and

things like that because obviously

shapes have intent and

Right. Exactly. It's like if anyone

knows um you know they might be giants

particle man, particle man, you know

that whole thing and triangle man like

let's go there. Like that's the whole

thing. But essentially what they want to

do is they're saying there's technology

and AI and all this stuff that can read

exactly what you're about to do. And

that's fine, but it's not illegal to

make things. It's illegal to do bad

things with things. Like what I'm

holding right here, this microphone,

this contraption here is totally

illegal. But if I were to, I don't know,

break a window or something with it,

that would be illegal. And guess what?

There's not a jail for microphones, but

there's a jail for humans. So that's the

context here is that they're totally off

base on it. And if you hear people say

hash matching, oh, we can match exactly,

you know, exactly this shape is only

used for this one thing. Prove it. Prove

that that shape is only used for one

thing and it has absolutely no other

uses. And on top of that, hashmatching

only works with complete identical

identities in things. If you modify it

and you change it a little bit and you

do other stuff, it will not be the same.

And even if you throw AI on it, you

could still get around it. But the core

of all of this, before we get in these

stupid arguments about AI and and shape

matching, we have to go to the very

core, which every case will rest on

because this is law. We are in a

judicial setting, is that if you can

prove criminal intent of a shape,

because that's what's going to be on

trial here, and that's what's already

illegal. You cannot make 3D printed guns

in California. You can make regular ones

and get them serialized by the

Department of Justice, but you can't

make them. And you can't sell guns on

your own. That's already illegal. So,

we're just waiting to see what's next.

>> Talk about the reduction in crime that

>> um

uh

some staffers.

>> Yeah.

>> Tell me a little bit about the

reductions in crime that have already

been

seen.

>> Yeah. So, the I don't know the bill

names off the top of my head. Um, but

two bills went into place in 2022

that made these illegal. And according

to the Department of Justice, ghost guns

are down 31% statewide, 50% in Los

Angeles. Now, keep in mind what I'm

saying. It's a ghost gun. I was watching

the news a while ago, and LAPD said,

"Look, a ghost gun is not a 3D printed

gun because they don't want to scare

parents and people about their resources

and things like that. your English is no

worries.

>> Um, by the way, that's the author of the

bill and her team

>> over there. Um,

so, uh,

yeah.

Yeah. So, crimes are already down for

the bill being presented. What this bill

does, though, is adds new crimes.

There is nothing legal right now that

this bill makes illegal. There's

absolutely nothing going on in the world

right now that this bill criminalizes.

What this bill does do is create new

crimes and makes those illegal by

tampering with software they want to put

on your computer. That's what this is

all about.

Yeah. You want to hop in, Marlene?

>> Are we live? Oh, no way. Hi, everybody.

Check out my Instagram, too. No, I'm

just kidding. [laughter]

But I have been doing all the I didn't

know we were live. I thought he was

recording it. Um but yeah, that's part

of it too is like I've been updating

everyone on the Instagram and doing all

the updates. But a lot of companies too

are involved in this too. Like we have

the CEO of Things and Shapeways here

that I think people would love to hear

from. Marlene.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> Take it away.

>> Hi. Good morning. Hi. How does this

work?

>> Thank you for being here.

>> Yeah. You're welcome. I'm uh well, I'm

not going to say I'm excited to be here,

but I'm here today to see how how I can

make an effort to uh to stand against

this bill.

>> How did you hear about it and why do you

oppose it?

>> Well, I actually heard about it

initially in New York. I saw what was

going on and that was kind of

mind-blowing.

And then uh that was kind of already

passed and nothing to do about it

anymore. And then I found out what was

happening in California. And considering

California is a is a state that in

general uh you know is just a starter

state, you know, if something happens

here, a lot of a lot of other states

copy it. I thought it was really

important to be out here and speak up

against it because it the bill doesn't

make any technical sense. And most

importantly, I run a business, a 3D file

sharing marketplace where I have

millions of visitors a month, where we

have, you know, millions of downloads of

3D files.

>> Millions millions a month, millions a

year or millions in total. Oh, millions

of visitors a month. Over 10 million

visitors a month.

>> Do you have any idea approximately how

many downloads you guys are processing?

>> Oh, yeah. We've done millions of

downloads already. We do tens of

downloads, tens of thousands of

downloads a month. And I don't think as

far as my knowledge goes, and I've

researched this, I have never heard of

any crime being committed with a file

that was downloaded from. Thanks. Have

you ever had a police officer or a

detective call or have a warrant issued

saying we want to know uh we saw this 3D

printed file or file for 3D printing on

your site that was used for in the

commission of a crime?

>> No, absolutely not.

>> Have the police ever contacted you and

said you have 3D printed gun parts on

your site?

>> Nope.

>> How long have you been doing this for?

>> Well, I bought things a year and a half

ago, but the company has existed uh for

about four four to five years, and it

used to be a geometric search engine.

Prior to you purchasing the company, do

you know of any known instances of them

being featured for this?

>> Nope.

>> And yet this is still coming up anyway.

>> Say again.

>> And this is still coming up anyway.

>> Yes. [laughter]

Yeah. Uh I think it's important to uh to

speak up against this because we we have

hundreds of uh of designers of creators

whose livelihood depend on being able to

uh on being able to 3D design freely and

to innovate freely and to make new

product. And it can be anything from

home decor to jewelry to puzzle to

geometric shapes. It can be literally

anything. And the idea that you know

their surveillance on their intellectual

property by a third external party uh

the idea that their innovation gets

stifled uh their ideas get stifled

because they cannot use certain shapes

makes absolutely no sense.

>> One of the things that I found

interesting about this is the idea that

uh the scanning soft whoever is doing

this actually gets to see every single

thing that somebody is printing.

>> Say again. What I found interesting is

whoever's doing the scanning gets to see

every single thing that is being

printed. Can you tell me a little bit

about how weird that is?

>> Tell me a little every single thing that

gets scanned. They get to Whoever is

doing this, whoever is doing the whole

is this a gun gets to see.

>> Yeah. They get to see every single thing

that you are printing in your own house.

>> That's not okay. [laughter] And

>> because the idea that there's a third

party that you're not privy to who that

is or maybe you're privy to who that is,

but they have access to every single

file being uh uh being printed in the

state of California. What can they do

with that knowledge? What can they do

with those files? What kind of AI are

they training with it? You don't know.

>> You never

>> and it's being trained on your

intellectual property. It's not okay.

>> There's been a whole range of people

that have come out to talk about this.

Some of them are really pro- second

amendment. Some of them are really anti

for more for gun control. Are you open

to talking about any of your view on

that? Cuz I've noticed that the people

that have come out against this are all

over the spectrum like pro- second

amendment, total complete gun control.

>> Well, I mean, the fact that there's the

ACLU is opposed to this bill and that

there's proun organizations opposed to

this bill collaborating on on the

opposition is actually really says a

lot.

>> Thank you so much for taking the time.

Let's go inside.

>> How did you get through through security

with that?

>> Uh, painfully

>> at the airport

>> with a lot of smirks. What got you to

think that this is worth bothering?

because a lot of people have this idea

that there's no point in bothering,

nobody's going to listen to me, I'm not

going to win. Like, what made you fig

figure this is worth it?

>> Well, I think somebody needs to take a

stance and I think um

do you know those videos [laughter]

there some of these

>> Yeah.

>> You know that it uh do you know those

videos where you have like you know one

person dancing in a park on their own

and look kind of mad? [laughter]

>> Yes. And then the second person joins

and it looks less mad but they're having

a great time and they're dancing and

then you know two minutes later there's

a thousand people dancing and it's a big

dance party. This is kind of different

but in the sense that David and Joel

telling they've been really vocal

against this actually for quite a little

bit and I realized that in order for

this considering California can be one

of the first states where this happens

and then it might perpetuate into other

states. I think the opposition is

growing and the amount of people that

are aware of what's happening is really

growing. So I thought I have to really

stand by the community that thank serves

not only the people who are on our

platform but on competitive platforms

who are general makers and hobbyists out

there that might not even have heard of

my company ever. If I stand up on behalf

of my company, other industry parties

and more people will uh will oppose this

and we start gathering steam and keep

putting dents into this law because

we've already taken the teeth out of

this law by our earlier opposition. And

as we keep opposing and this group of

people starts becoming bigger and bigger

who start realizing how much this

stifles makers, hobbyists and engineers

to create and make things and and

innovate the better.

>> That's awesome. So, you're trying to

encourage other people to come out, too.

>> Absolutely. Yes.

>> I think it's working. Take a look at the

>> Yeah, there are quite some people out

there. I'm

>> That's a lot of people.

>> So, should we start chanting? Nerds.

Nerds. [laughter] Nerds. Really loud.

>> Getting really fired up.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I approve.

>> So, so Steve, you want to talk to this?

>> So, I'm Steve. I'm a member of the Voron

design uh community. We're an

open-source 3D printer design group kind

of representing the wider open-source 3D

printing hobbyist group. Am I

>> Ah, there we go. Is that better? Okay.

So, we're here just to oppose this bill

that has a significant it'll have a

significant impact on everything that I

do for my hobby. So, I do this as a

hobby. It's not um any kind of business

or anything. It's just a uh something

that if this bill passes, it would be a

huge impact to what I do.

>> How would you feel about the idea that

somebody in the government is able to or

some private company can see every

single file that you're about to print?

>> That's not creative.

>> That I mean that's not okay. There's

there's no reason why someone should see

a part that I'm designing for a printer

that's coming up. Most of what I do is

designing parts for printers,

>> okay?

>> To build more printers. So there's

there's no reason why someone outside of

me, myself, and my group needs to see

that.

>> Yeah, it's kind of weird. And to my

knowledge, there's only one company so

far that actually has this technology.

There's only one company that is selling

it or trying to sell the technology that

does this,

>> but

>> and it's not and it's a closed source

technology.

>> Yeah. Well, and that technology can't

work on the printer like mine.

>> Mine uses open source software, open

source firmware,

>> and that would no longer be allowed to

be sold in the state, I imagine.

Correct. If this passes,

>> correct? And many the we use a firmware

for the uh printers uh called Clipper.

It's used on many commercial printers as

well. So that would completely disable

those those printers. They couldn't they

couldn't be used or at least couldn't be

sold with that software on it.

>> That sucks cuz I know that Bamboo is

doing something recently where they've

slowly tried to lock you into their

ecosystem and lock you out of using

third party slicers. And what disgusted

me about this most more than anything

else is the fact that that would be an

encouraged business model. It would

>> that would be an encourage but like that

would be a state sanctioned business

model. So what what offends me about

this is you're writing in shitification

into the law. You're writing using

closed source software into the law.

You're writing force.

>> I think the problem here is that Steve's

business could potentially go out of

business because of that. And so it

reduces competition and creates all the

goalies instead of you know free market

which I think America was all about.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we're even though

we're not a business, we're a huge part.

We're probably the very the largest

open- source 3D printer community. Yeah.

>> And there are countless people that are

having fun as a hobby just building

printers, customizing printers. Has

nothing to do with firearms. This is

this is it's not even on my radar. I've

never printed a firearm part and I've

printed tons of parts for printers and

printer projects.

>> That sucks.

>> Thank you for coming out.

>> Thank you.

You want to go?

>> Hello.

>> Pleasure to meet you, ma'am.

>> Hi there.

>> What brings you out today?

>> I'm Joan Horvath and my partner Rich

Cameron here and I write uh write books

for make and so we've um developed a lot

of 3D printable math and science

curriculum. It's used a lot by blind

users. And one of the unintended

consequences here is that blind users

have built open frontends forks of uh of

various open- source splicers so that

they can use printers to print their own

math and science models to learn math

and more advanced math and science than

they used to be able to learn. And all

that would become illegal in California,

which is where a lot of it's happening

obviously. So, so we're here to try to

both defend our own ability to have 3D

printable math and science in schools

because most if this passes a lot of

schools will probably say we don't want

the liability of having a 3D printer and

sort of turn back the clock. So, that's

why we're here.

>> How often do you show up to legislative

hearings in general or things like

>> So, this is the first time we've ever

come to one. It's an interesting

experience and following following David

here and so we appreciate him being out

in front. You know, we're trying to use

people who like our books to come out as

well. So, I don't know if any of them

are here from us. Definitely a a very

important moment for 3D printing.

>> What would you tell people who think

that there's absolutely no point in

showing up? This is a waste of my time.

Nobody's going to listen to me anyway.

The kind of people that have this doom

and gloom idea like it's already it's

already hopeless.

>> So, a few people have asked me that and

so I always quote Margaret me who said

um never underestimate the um power of a

small group of people wanting change

because it's the only thing that

actually creates change.

>> I love it. Thank you so much for showing

up. I really appreciate it.

>> My name is Ethan Coulter. Um I'm the CEO

of Okreate. I am the producer of

MakerFair Orange County and I'm also the

president of the OC Makers Foundation.

And uh we're here opposing this bill cuz

this would hurt so many things that we

do working with education, working with

different teams, just getting in the

industry moving forward with all of this

manufacturing with 3D printing.

Thank you for taking the time and thank

you for being open to plugging this

thing in once.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> I have to find a

>> See if we can get it into get some audio

for you. Hi people of the internet. I'm

back.

>> You're a naturalb born host,

>> huh?

>> You're a naturalb born host.

>> I could see you doing some frontline

interviews standing outside the White

House with like you you have the the

look for it. I mean this in the best way

possible.

>> I'm David Tobin. I'm here live at the

capital in Sacramento. We're reporting

on AB 2047. It's a bill that wants to

take away your right to 3D print. We'll

talk more about that and the new

adoption clinic down the street after

this.

>> No, you really you're [laughter] perfect

at this. I love it.

>> One thing I want to show is this other

example to the audience. I don't know if

this will work with your focus, but I

want to show the eyeball.

>> Sure, I'll try.

>> So, if I hold that there, does that

work?

>> Yeah, I got it. I got it. The All right.

So, this is an eyeball completely 3D

printed from the Mayo Clinic. This is a

glass eyeball. It's been polished.

And then you can see the back of it.

There's a cylinder for where it's

mounted.

That cylinder

would be considered illegal by this bill

because you can't tell the intent of a

shape. And you see that little cylinder

there? If you scale that cylinder up or

not, you know, is that a good cylinder

or a bad cylinder? Click the like button

if it's a good cylinder. Click the like

button if it's a bad cylinder. See, it's

crazy, right? Oh, here we go. I got to

go.

>> The thing is, David was getting along

very well with the Moms Man action

people that were sitting next to him.

Like, they were actually

>> like very civil in spite of the fact

that they disagree on on this issue very

much. And I really appreciated being

able to see that they actually could get

along.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Gives me hope for society.

>> Yeah, definitely. Though we disagree on

on a lot of issues, we can still have a

civil discussion. We got we got comfy

chairs. We're ready to go.

>> Must be nice.

>> I know you're standing over there,

buddy. And I think it's good. I mean,

we'll just wait and see. And it's just

part of the process, you know. Yeah. So,

it'll we'll be here for a little bit and

people are streaming at home, hang out,

you know, have a sandwich, chill, relax,

you know, go 3D print a couple things

and then come back

>> while you still can.

>> Yeah. While you still can, right now

they said they have 57 bills to listen

to.

>> What?

>> I heard that there were 57 bills.

>> There are there's 57 54 bills today that

are getting passed. We've been through a

couple. They go pretty quick. And then

authors will come by and do them in bulk

as well too as it goes on later. But

yeah, the uh it's a process.

>> It's a lot of bills.

>> It's a lot of bills. There's a lot going

on. And uh yeah.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Fun.

>> Yeah, it's fun. It's a waiting game.

It's like, you know,

>> it's part of the process. I'm happy to

be here doing it because the other

option is not doing anything, right?

>> That's not an option.

>> Yeah, that's not an option. You can sit

at home and and let things just keep

happening and then they keep happening.

Like nothing changes if nothing changes.

>> True. So what is the how many other

bills does the sponsor of this bill have

to deal with?

>> There's four total I think.

>> Are they author or co-sponsor of this

bill?

>> Assembly member Ward.

Congratulations.

You are up next.

>> Thank you. So Mr. Chair,

>> so this would be file number 51

um AB 1684.

Good afternoon, chair and vice chair.

Um, I want to start by thanking

committee staff for their hard work on

this bill. Um, and I'll be accepting the

committee amendment uh amendments

amendment today. Um, and I want to thank

the chair for his um partnership on this

important work and the hearing we had

over the recess to really dive into

this. This is a an important bill that

allows for individuals who have

registered works that are copyrighted to

know whether generative artificial

intelligence has been trained using

their works. The amendment we're taking

here today will allow for right to cure,

which is really important because this

bill is really just about giving the

registered copyright holders the

information they need and not penalizing

any corporations. And this will allow

them the time to do so. So, I want to

thank the committee for the thoughtful

amendment.

>> My name is David Tobin. I'm a former

manager of the Roxy Theater on the

Sunset Strip. Produced over 50 TV shows

and currently the show 3D printing nerd.

I am in full support of this bill.

>> Thank you.

>> I'm holding his weird microphone in

front of you.

>> Yeah, you're extra.

>> Yeah, I'm extra hungry.

>> All right, so we're breaking for lunch

now. It's going to be 90 minutes. Lewis,

come here. Get on camera.

>> Hello.

>> Isn't this guy amazing? I mean, I know

we're on his channel and you all watch

him, but how awesome is this guy? Look

how much better dressed he is than me.

Look at what a [ __ ] schmuck

>> It's because this is what I look like

when I'm behind camera. I look

>> No, it's cuz I'm on camera now. So, I

have to be like this when I'm normally

working on 3D Pretty Nerd. I look we we

look we look like twins. Actually, you

look nicer than I look on set.

>> So, not bad, my friend.

>> You look exceptional. I If I If I dress

like him, I'd have right to repair past

10 years ago. [laughter]

>> Hey, you know what? All right, Alex.

>> I wanted to say one thing. You just also

taped the last law that she proposed.

>> I taped all of it. Yeah,

>> it's all getting recorded just in case

the stream is messed up cuz the crappy

internet in here.

>> Well, didn't you find it incesting that

she put a law out there to protect

creative economies and protect creative

people uh with their income and that she

was passionate about protecting the

creative economy from the overreach of

big tech. Whereas with this AB 2047 that

we are opposing, she's actually in favor

of big tech overreach since she's trying

to basically hurt the economy. I'm like,

"Wait a minute. These are two completely

opposing things that she's doing at the

same time on the same day."

>> Yeah, there's no consistency. I think

it's just doing what they what they

think is popular. And I think seeing how

popular this is may start changing

things.

>> Oh, yeah. That makes sense. So, just

wanted to put that out there.

>> It's a good point. Who do you think has

more people in support or for this bill?

In support or against?

>> I'm thinking definitely more people are

going to be against.

>> You think?

>> Yeah, I think so. I think it's only

logical. We have the people. We have the

people. We have the hobbyists. We have

the manufacturers themselves. I think

the only people that are for this bill

are the lobbyists and like and and

Bloomberg. So yeah, so it's going to be

the billionaires.

>> The thing is David was getting along

very well with the Moms Man action

people that were sitting next to him.

Like they were actually

>> like very civil in spite of the fact

that they disagree on on this issue very

much and I really appreciated being able

to see that they actually could get

along.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> It gives me hope for society.

>> Yeah, definitely. though we disagree on

some on a lot of issues, we can still

have a civil discussion. Yeah, this is

why we have this in in a formal body

here.

>> I liked I like seeing this

>> for sure.

>> Uh ZV1, it's mostly the router that

likes to overheat.

>> Actually, no. Le mentioned that the bit

rate is going to be 6 megabits a second.

So, the the issue right now is the

biggest suspect is actually going to be

the camera in here and the video encoder

on it. Yes, even when I set this to the

fan to high, I noticed that like the

camera skips a lot even when it's on

good connection.

>> Yeah, apparently our router is doing a

fantastic job with 1400 megabits, right?

>> Yeah, it's 14 megabit. Look at this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the connection is fine.

It's just the camera itself is giving us

the headaches.

>> This is the connection right there.

That's a PLINK Transit Duo Pro Max. Look

at that. Look at that beautiful router.

Look at that router. Also, the antennas

have been kicked by the TSA over and

over again. Let me show you something.

You want to see some TSA beauty right

here?

>> Watch. Look at that. See how it wipes

off?

>> That's a TSA beauty right there.

>> So you that that antenna cannot be

touched. Like I have to make sure that I

put this I can't be under an air

conditioning vent.

>> Did the stream get restarted? [laughter]

>> It's a It's a separate stream if I'm not

mistaken.

>> Oh god, you scared me when you said that

cuz you said that the stream get

restarted right as I tap the antenna.

[laughter]

>> Don't do that, man. Don't scare me like

that.

>> I'm an intentional troll.

>> Don't be one of you.

The Senate Judiciary Committee will uh

excuse me, [clears throat] commence in

60 seconds.

>> I want to start by thanking committee

staff for their work on this bill. I'm

proud to present AB 2047 along with my

sponsors, Every Town for Gun Safety. As

many of you may already know, before I

was elected, I was a Mom's Demand

volunteer, and this bill is near and

dear to my heart because ending gun

violence is a passion. Uh over many

years, California has set the standard

in taking an active role to protect our

communities against gun violence. AB2047

builds on prior legislation to address

the newest firearm threat, 3D printed

weapons. Numerous reports from the

Department of Justice and nonprofits

have emerged demonstrating the

proliferation of these firearms. Just

since January of this year, there have

been several 3D printed printed guns and

recoveries in California, including in

San Jose, San Martendino, and Santa

Rosa. We cannot stand by as a state

while these firearms continue to flow

into our communities. AB247

creates an upstream solution by

requiring that all three-dimensional

printers sold in California are equipped

with firearm blocking features to

prohibit the printing of these dangerous

gun parts. At its core, this bill is

about ending gun violence. It's about

keeping our kids safe in their schools,

our families safe when they attend

worship services, the mall, or a

concert.

I'm often here presenting bills that

protect communities from certain

technologies, but this bill is an

exciting example of a technical

technological innovation that can help

keep our kids safe. I'm committed to

continuing to work with all the

stakeholders that will that I'm sure

will be here today to ensure that there

are no unintended consequences for good

faith users in industries who use 3D

printers as intended and are not

printing illegal ghost guns. I've

already made extensive amendments to the

bill addressing some of the opposition's

concern and ensuring that DOJ is not

overburdened by the requirements in the

bill. I will also note since the

introduction of this bill, this um

similar legislation has passed in New

York State. So, we are not the first in

the nation to do this. With that, I will

turn it over to my witness, Crystal

Lolito, director of policy and advocacy

for Every Town, and Julian Chularski,

technical account manager at FSN with 29

years of experience in software

engineering and technology.

Thank you.

>> Proceed.

>> Good afternoon, chair and members of the

committee. My name is Crystal Opalado

and I serve as policy advocacy director

for Every Town for Gun Safety. Together

with Mom's Demand Action for Gunsense

and Students Demand Action, we are the

largest gun violence prevention

organization in the nation. We're proud

sponsors of AB2047 and very grateful to

Assembly Member Bower K on for bringing

this bill forward. AV2047 is an exciting

technological solution to the dangerous

problem of firearms made with household

3D printers. It's the common sense next

step in California's fight against ghost

guns. The 3D printed gun crisis is not a

far away or a future problem. It's

happening here in California right now.

In just the last few months, we've

tracked numerous instances of 3D printed

firearm manufacturing operations

uncovered by law enforcement agencies

all around the state. 3D gun printing

threatens everything members of this

legislature have done over the last many

decades to strengthen California gun

laws to protect communities. All those

laws are upended when teenagers,

extremists, and people with violent

criminal histories can easily print guns

in their basements and bedrooms. To be

clear, there is so much positive

creativity and innovation happening as

3D printing becomes more accessible and

affordable. This bill won't stifle or

threaten that. technology now exists to

block the printing of files that have

been specifically identified as firearm

design files. Ensuring that technology

is equipped on all printers sold to

retail consumers in California is a new

and preventative way to effectuate

existing laws that prohibit printing

guns and unlicensed firearm

manufacturing. While recent California

laws have focused on prohibition and

deterrence, AB2047 will let us actually

stop the flow of 3D printed guns right

at the source. Thank you. We ask for

your I vote.

Thank you. You have another primary

witness.

>> Oh,

>> you may proceed.

>> Thank you. Uh, good afternoon, chair and

members of the committee. My name is

Julian Chutarski and I'm a technical

account manager at FSNA. I have almost

30 years of experience of in software

engineering and technology. At FSNA, we

have spent years building geometric

search technology for industrial

applications. Geometric search is the

ability to search 3D models by their

physical shape rather than by text

labels, file names or tags. It has a

variety of industrial use cases and it

can be directly mapped onto the task of

detecting print jobs for regulated

firearm components.

Geometric search is not a speculative

idea. It is mature technology deployed

at scale and used every day in

engineering and manufacturing. The same

technology that can address the 3D

printed firearm problem is already

solving bunch of other problems in

industrial manufacturing. I'm here as an

engineer talking about technology not a

salesperson. FSNA is one company in a

much broader ecosystem. There are

similar tools available as open source

projects, academic projects, and other

commercial vendors working in this

space. What I can offer is a credible

view of what is possible based on what's

already been built and deployed at scale

in industrial settings. The hard work

envisioned in this legislation, building

robust, scalable, evasion resistant

geometric search, has already been done

in the industrial context. What is

needed for the 3D printed firearm

problem is not to invent new technology.

It is to configure proven technology for

this specific application. Get the false

positive rates calibrated and integrated

into the 3D printing workflow. This is

solvable. It is already being worked on

and most importantly it can be done in a

way that respects the openness the

consumer rights and the innovation

culture that have made 3D printing such

an exciting field to be part of. Thank

you. Happy to answer any questions.

>> Thank you. And now others that are here

that wish to speak in support state your

name organization and your position.

Yall volunteer with mom's command action

in support

>> Matt Broadford prosecutors Alliance in

support. Thank you

[snorts]

>> Rebecca Marcus on behalf of the Brady

campaign. Gfords and the Consumer

Protection Policy Center at the

University of San Diego School of Law in

support. Thank you.

>> Linda Peacock, volunteer with Mom's

Demand Action in support.

Amaya Clayton here with Every Town for

Gun Safety and Students Demand Action

here in support.

>> Bridget Jakubitz, volunteer with Mom's

Demand Action and Public School teacher

in support.

>> Marcy Kichi,

volunteer, volunteer for Mom's Demand

Action and Norel, GVP in support.

>> Sharon Scott, volunteer with Mom's

Demand Action in support.

Julie Chapman, volunteer with NorCal Gun

Violence Prevention in support.

>> Roan Johnson, Every Town for Gun Safety

in support.

>> Hi, Megan Simmons uh with Every Town for

Gun Safety, proud to sponsor uh the bill

and also registering support on behalf

of the California Medical Association,

Youth Alive, the Jewish Community

Relations Council of the Bay Area, and

Jewish California who couldn't make it

today.

Spencer Reed, Oakland resident, in

support on behalf of Mom's Demand Action

and also uh for Every Town. Thank you.

Uh any others in support? And seeing

none, moving to the opposition. Uh

primary witnesses in opposition.

Hello, my name is Marlene Voglar. I'm

the CEO of Thanks, a platform that

enables independent creators to sell and

design and share unique 3D designs.

Since 2010, my marketplace businesses

have helped start and scale thousands of

small businesses, creating jobs, and

contributing over half a billion dollars

in annual revenue to the US economy.

I strongly support effective gun

legislation, including California's

existing AB 2156, which prohibits 3D

printed guns and gun parts. But today,

I'm asking you to oppose AB 2047 because

it raises serious technical, privacy,

and economic concerns. This law would

require manufacturers to build

monitoring systems into general

fabrication tools. This man

misunderstands how the 3D printing

works. A design would have to be checked

against a database of prohibited parts

before printing before print

instructions are sent to the printer.

The printer itself does not have access

to original geometry. So, it cannot

determine whether a part that it's

producing is illegal or legal. At the

software level, these databases will

always lag behind innovation and can be

easily circumvented and generate false

positives that block legal designs and

wrongly flag everyday makers. At thanks,

we used similar technology and we

removed it. It was not useful for our

community. The bill also creates serious

privacy and security risk by giving

third parties access to analyze designer

files that threatens intellectual

property and adds digital surveillance

in a state that values data privacy.

Notably, this law does not stop the

metal parts that function fire that

functional firearms actually rely on,

such as barrels and firing chambers.

entrepreneurs, educators, engineers, and

small businesses rely on open access to

3D printing and 3D design for tools to

teach, build, and innovate and earn a

living. As someone who cares deeply

about these communities, I oppose AB

2047 because it would impose burdensome

restrictions without addressing a

demonstrated problem. Thank you. Please

oppose 2047. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Any other primary witness in

oppose?

>> Good afternoon. It's nice to finally

meet everyone in person. My name is

David Tobin. Hello everyone watching

online around California. Uh in 2022,

this committee put legislation into

place that makes the crimes in this bill

illegal. It's already illegal to do

everything in this bill here. And

according to the Department of Justice,

the crimes in this bill are done down

31% statewide, 50% in Los Angeles. You

can't make it illegal. And that same

Department of Justice put this bill when

it was in assembly through uh it went

suspense because they said technology is

not possible. and they're very concerned

about the First Amendment violations

like prior restraint and compelled

speech because we're talking about a

shape. We're talking about an object

here. The object doesn't commit the

crime. And we've met with every town.

We've met with the uh council the

assembly members office twice. Everyone

in the 3D printing community, every

manufacturer on planet Earth except for

FSN, the company that's been trying to

sell the same product for years is

against this bill because of the core

principles. We cannot tell intent from a

shape. And uh last week I was here

meeting with the staffers from a lot of

your offices. Some of it was the first

time seeing a 3D printed item, but for a

lot of them they've been in first

robotics. They understand the technology

and they were surprised that this was

actually beingcoming a thing. We're not

trying to scare you when we say if you

pass this bill this all goes away. But

when you ask for something impossible to

exist, it can't be done. And we're not

trying to scare you with weird stats

like a thousand% and the other things

that they say about all these gun parts

everywhere. It's no one's actually

described that. It's been 30 parts found

here. Firearm parts. No, 3D printed

parts. They're not saying whether

they're fired, their components, or

anything like that. It's being used to

gaslight people. And we're here to talk

about what's real and what's really

going on in the world and things like

that. And this bill just isn't the way.

>> If you have any questions, we're here as

well.

>> Thank you. Others here uh posted the

bill. Name, organization, and position.

>> Sure. Erica Butler. I'm speaking for

myself. I'm from Sacramento, California.

I I respectfully oppose this bill. The

reason is is that it is already illegal

to manu in California.

>> We already had that testimony. This is

me too testimony. You state your name,

organization, and your position on the

bill. Your position is opposed.

>> Opposed. Yes, sir. I am opposed to this

bill. I respectfully ask you to vote no.

Thank you.

>> Hi, my name is Paul Rothstein. I'm from

Davis, California. I also uh

respectfully ask you to vote no.

>> Graham Smith, resident of San Francisco,

uh representing myself. I am opposed.

>> Good afternoon. Danny Kendo Kaiser here

on behalf of the Electronic Frontier

Foundation Privacy Rights Clearing House

and the ACLU respectfully oppose.

My name is Luke Bashai on behalf of WPM

Keyboards, a design company in Southern

California. Respectfully ask you to say

no. Thank you.

>> Uh Russell Clarin, a open source

firmware engineer, and I oppose this

bill.

>> Daniel Alnoster, a 3D bio printing

researcher and Noisebridge hacker space

member. Strongly oppose.

Hi, I'm Kian Kelly and I would uh from

Windsor, California, and I'd like to uh

strongly discourage you from mandating

spyware in this amazing technology built

off of open-source um innovation. Thank

you.

>> All right. Alan Mihara, small business

owner and privacy advocate. I do not

support.

>> Dr. Joey Griffiths, uh strongly opposed.

uh Kevin Bancort, mechanic from Fresno.

And I oppose.

>> Ariat Navanova, laboratory worker, and I

oppose.

>> Joan Horvath, author of over a dozen

books on 3D printing and curriculum for

blind students, oppose on accessibility

grounds.

Rich Cameron. I designed some of the

earliest consumer 3D printers and

currently own a small business that

would be harmed by this bill. Uh making

educational models for use um with 3D

printers. I oppose.

>> Chris Taylor. I'm a software engineer in

the open source community and I strongly

oppose. Yeah,

>> Steve Peterson, member of the Voron

design team, representing the open

source hobbyist 3D printing community

and we're opposed.

>> Bill Brothers on representing the 1500

people on the stream today and we all

oppose.

>> Ethan Coulter representing Oreate OC

Makers Foundation and Maker Fair Orange

County. Highly oppose.

>> Hi, my name is Thomas Riley. Um, and I

oppose.

>> Hi, my name is Paul Hansel. I'm the CEO

of a camera company in Redwood City

called Leifi. I strongly oppose on the

basis of educational attainment and

economic prosperity.

Hello, my name is Matthew Mummer. I'm a

firmware engineer in the aerospace

industry in San Diego. I flew up here

today to say that I oppose.

>> Hello, my name is Daniel Dwit. I'm from

Chico, California. From the standpoint

of ownership and privacy, I also oppose.

>> Hi, my name is Jackson Dia. I'm

representing myself. I strongly oppose.

>> Chris Nielsen, small business owner,

Sacramento. Strongly oppose.

>> This is Daniel Agaffo from Sacramento

and on the grounds of privacy and open

source. I I respect you to vote no.

Thank you.

>> I'm Ethan Bondo. Um, I'm representing

the Embry Riddle Aeronautical University

Cyber Security Cyber Eye Group and I

strongly oppose I strongly oppose this

measure.

>> Xavier Potton, uh, Sacramento native and

full-time electronics engineer. I

strongly oppose.

>> I'm Artin Lavi. I'm a District 16

constituent and I oppose this bill.

>> James Cannon, Sacramento, California.

Um, small businessman. Strongly oppose.

>> Anthony Garcia, small business owner.

Strongly oppose.

>> Evan Marquez. I'm an engineering student

and I strongly oppose.

>> San Lawrence Hastings, free and open

source software and hardware advocate,

resident of Shasta County. I strongly

oppose.

>> Arhan Schultz, Los Altos, California.

I'm a student of Foothhill College and I

strongly oppose.

Jason North, computer science major in

Sacramento local. I oppose.

>> Kane Ponte, Loi, California. I strongly

oppose this irrational will.

>> Adam Wilson, on behalf of Gun Owners of

America, Gun Owners of California,

California Rifle and Pistol Association,

and the National Rifle Association, all

in opposition.

>> Brendan Talbett. I am a student of UC

Santa Cruz, and I strongly oppose this

bill.

>> Are there any others? That appears to be

the end of the line. So, uh, as I bring

it back to this side of the dis, I will,

uh, turn the meeting back over to our

real chair and, and Senator Dazzo, I'm

afraid this ends your temporary position

as vice [laughter] chair.

>> Well, it looks like you've done job in

my absence. Maybe I should have stayed

away a little longer. All right, so

bring it back to committee for questions

or comments. Questions or comments? Uh,

Senator Daso. Um just if you could

respond to some of the uh opposition

um having to do with the technology

that's used and maybe

sort of putting everybody in the same in

the same bucket. That's what I

understood in terms of technology. But

the other one is um it's already illegal

like that term was used. So

>> if those ring a bell if you could

respond.

>> Okay. Um, I'm not sure I understood the

first part of your question. I

apologize, but if you could clarify. Um,

but the second part of your question

about it already being illegal. Um, we,

uh, I believe under the leadership of

Assembly Member Gibson, um, we did

outlaw the printing of ghost guns. Um,

the we've seen across the state that

they continue to be printed. It's um

it's a hard thing to stop unlike our

very strong laws that require um

manufacturers to put you know numbers on

guns, make sure that you get a license

for it. Guns that are sold through

licensed dealers, these are printed in

people's homes and we are not able to

track them. Um, and so we know they

continue to be printed. And so, as I

mentioned, New York passed this

recently, and it allows for us to, um,

put technology on the front end that

stops the components from being printed

um, and allows us to prevent it. Now, I

don't believe, I may be wrong, but, um,

in order to allow for the printing that

people are talking about here today, I

don't know that it will be foolproof in

preventing all printing, but uh, we are

going far in making sure that we can

stop as many ghost guns from being

printed as possible. And I think that's

critically important. And so this does

add on to our laws to the point that was

made. But we do not currently have this

law on the books. If that answers your

second question,

>> describe that again.

>> So it is

>> just describe that again in terms of the

difference between the two.

>> So um it is illegal to print a gun in

California, but there is nothing to

actually stop it. This will stop the

printing.

Did that make more sense? Yeah.

>> All right. Other questions or comments?

Seeing none, is there a motion?

>> Move the bill.

>> Senator Wahab has moved the bill. Uh,

would you like to close?

>> I respectfully ask for your eye vote.

>> All righty. Thank you very much. Um,

Chief Counsel Estrada, please call the

role.

>> Okay. This is file item number nine, uh,

AB 2047. Um, oh, sorry. The motion is

due pass to the Senate Public Safety

Committee. Here,

>> I.

>> Hberg, I. Neilo,

>> no.

>> Neilo, no. Allan Ashbo [clears throat]

Duraso Leair Rees Stern Bellair Wahab

>> Wahhab I

>> Wahhab I Weber Pearson Weiner

>> Weiner I you have three to one with

members missing.

>> All right 3 to1 we'll put that on call.

Uh next bill uh file item number 10 AB

2212

>> first

member bar kahan floor is yours.

>> Thank you. Um

>> why don't we just wait a second give

>> you know one minute here.

>> All right great. So if you want to know

what just happened some people voted yes

some people voted no. Now it goes to

public safety where they have to vote on

it again next week and I'll be back here

at another hearing for that and then

it'll go to appropriations and we're

going to talk about it a bit more down

over this way. We're going to get out of

the hallway.

>> Down over this way. You really sound

like a newscast today.

>> All right. We're going to do a group

photo if we can get uh everyone kind of

lined up somewhere. I don't know. The

sunlight's there. So I think we want to

shoot this way. Maybe everyone just kind

of right here. Just kind of get

together.

>> Leave

one in here. Would you mind taking a

picture of us?

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you so much. I really appreciate

it.

>> Who likes the high school photo? Here we

go.

>> I [laughter] can't. Yeah, why not? Take

it.

>> Oh man.

>> Really?

>> Come on. Smile. Just

>> pretend it pass. Pretend it didn't pass.

[laughter]

>> No, just be excited because now we get

to really fight.

>> One more.

>> Yeah.

>> No.

>> Guess I should ask what your cause was

before.

>> Uh

>> oh. Our cause was people are not allowed

to wear black cardigans. [laughter]

>> Okay. Let's see. Before you dismiss.

>> Okay. Before you dismiss everyone. Hi

viewers back home. Uh the interesting

thing about this is that some of the

staffers that I met with last week are

in First Robotics, First Robotics alum,

people that have 3D printers have done

design and it's their job to talk to

these senators and explain to them how

the technology works. So clearly some

messages got through and some did not.

So now what we need is now we know like

this is the judiciary committee. Next

it's going to public safety. So, what

you're going to do is you're going to

look up in Sacramento and you're going

to see in the capital who's on the

public safety board, who's handling this

bill. The hearing is going to be next

week on Tuesday here in Sacramento.

It'll be the same rigoral rigor role.

I'll be here, but I'll be speaking

alongside the ACLU on the matter. They

are also supporting this effort. All of

you are supporting this effort. Everyone

at home, hi. All of you guys out there

are part of this because it's not just

about 3D printing. What they're trying

to say is that shapes have intent. All

this stuff about algorithms and

blueprints and searching software does

not happen. That is not a part of the

conversation because we can't get past

this. If you can't tell me the intent of

this shape, then we have nothing because

any lawsuit, any case in court that this

would apply to, you would have to say,

"What is the intent of this shape?" And

if you can't prove the intent of this

shape, there's no case. If I have

something on my computer or my printer

or my floor that looks something like

someone thinks is bad shape, that means

they're going to take me to court,

arrest me for the bad shape, and then I

will have to come up here and they will

have to look at that bad shape and say

that's going to shape jail. That's a bad

shape. But that's not reality and that's

not how this works. And this is part of

the absurdity of some bills out there.

But looking at all of you here, everyone

that's here, everyone that's watching at

home, everyone that's a part of this,

look at this. Look at all these everyone

at home. I want you to look at all these

people that flew in from all over the

country from all the place. Lewis came

in from Austin. All these people who

came out, all different walks of life,

businesses, different layers of

education, all sorts of stuff. But it's

because they care and they're actually

making a difference and their voices are

being heard and this is going to keep

getting teeth knocked out of it. The

bill's been amended twice. It's been

amended twice.

>> What are the last two amendments? Give

us an idea.

>> The amendments. Essentially what they've

done is now it's basically what the bill

says is if I'm a 3D printer company, if

I'm Pruscha, I say, you know what,

California, my printer can make the

thing yours you need it to do. Okay,

that's it. That is absolutely it. The

Department of Justice will certify a

standard that they find and say this is

a standard it has to do and they'll go

through that and move forward and say

okay, your printer has to do this. But

they won't check your printer. They

won't ask your company for any

certification in any capacity

whatsoever. You just have to say sure.

And then when there's a lawsuit against

your printer for printing a bad shape,

well, the person that has it can get

sued. But because this law is written

with so many other caveats, you can get

sued too at the printer company and

maybe the filament company and maybe the

extruder company. Uh maybe who else

because there's no limitations on it

because this bull this thing is all BS.

It's all, as I like to say, poppycock.

It is rubbish. It is these bills are

already illegal. It is illegal to do bad

things. If I take this shape and smash

it into the glass, I'm going to get in

trouble. That's illegal. But I can hold

this shape in my hand all day long. And

that's what this is about. And that's

why we have to keep doing this because

there's, as you heard today, you sat

through a ton of other bills. And

everyone in the audience, you heard

about what's going on. There's all these

things we have to fight for. And we have

to keep staying involved if we want our

country to be the country it is and stay

involved in in government. And I know

it's boring. I know it sucks. I know we

missed the whole day. and we had to sit

there and I had to wear a suit and all

that stuff and whatever. But like it

makes things happen because there were a

couple people at the last hearing.

There's more here now. There might be

more at the next one, but I guarantee

you people online are noticing and

realizing this and going, "Look, this is

BS. This isn't how this is done." And

you all have a voice to go back to your

communities and other people and avoid

the arguments. It's not about guns. It's

not about that. We all agree people

should not run around the street

shooting people, I think, right? It's

probably a bad idea. I would say like I

don't want that, you I think that's bad.

Um, and uh, it's about this. It's it's

completely about a shape. So, don't fall

into the arguments because the way we

win is by not playing their game. You

don't play the game they want you to

play. They want you to talk about

algorithms. They want you to talk about

FSNA and their blocking software and all

this stuff. They've been trying to sell

that crap for years. Plus, at the end of

the day, if you did match my shape, how

do you know I'm going to do with that

shape? It doesn't make any sense. So

bring it back to that because when you

talk to someone who's for this bill and

you bring a shape to them and say,

"Okay, tell me the intent of that shape.

What is that shape?" Every single

staffer I met with on Thursday of last

week had the same realization.

Oh.

Oh, wow. Okay, it clicks. Let people

come to their own conclusions because at

one point in all of our lives, and I'm

sure a lot of your lives, you knew

nothing about 3D printing. You knew

absolutely nothing. I thought it was a

replicator from Star Trek for the

longest time. I've learned it is not.

Um, but you know, and but that's where

we're going to and that's the future we

get if we stop garbage like this and

things like that. So, go back to your

communities, go out there, tell people,

let's make noise about this because it's

not just California. As they mentioned,

every town is trying to do this

everywhere and other countries are going

to do it.

>> They get about $50 million a year.

>> 57 million. 54 to 57.

>> There was a year that they got 84 or 90.

>> Oh, really? 84. Oh wow.

>> So you have you have to keep in mind

that the people that you're fighting

against have way more money. They're

going to they they can afford to show up

more than once. You have to win a

thousand times. They only have to win

once. And that can be very very

discouraging. The fact that you have to

win a thousand times and they only have

to win once. But it's the truth. Like

they can and the thing is they failed

many of the times that they showed up.

They've been how long have they been

trying to get bills like this passed

for?

>> Oh yeah.

>> They bust people in with shirts

>> that they slap on them and say go up

there and do a me too. It was the same

two things you heard up there. every

town mom's a man action little Brady

bill action.

>> It's frustrating when you hear like you

have you showed up with about 20 or 30

really good arguments and they showed up

with no arguments and she actually said

I don't know. I got this one right. She

said I don't know at least like three or

four times and they asked how does how

does this work? There was one question

that the woman had the senator had and

she goes to the first part of your

question I don't actually understand it

and even though she said she didn't

understand the question even though she

doesn't understand the technology it

still got passed.

>> Yeah.

>> Like that that has been my experience

with the right to repair stuff from

2014. and I show up and I think I have

all the right arguments and all these

people are on my side and then they just

vote the opposite way anyway. And it's

the thing, it's going to be a long

battle. You're not going to win after a

year or two years or maybe even four or

five years, but if you don't show up, uh

they will win and you will have uh your

3D prints will be asking you for a

subscription before you know it.

>> Yeah. And the thing is is they're doing

different versions of this. Like in

Washington state, there's a different

version because they get amended down.

They get knocked down. They just want to

get stuff passed so they can say, "Hey,

we're every town. We're the ones saving

you all." That's all they care about is

the headlines, the clickbait. I try to

look at this objectively just like when

you look at other things out there like

every town is a company. They have a

goal. They have a job. Their job is to

get bills passed. They don't care. They

use weird stats. They use other stuff

like that because you saw what happened.

You get a couple minutes. You go back

and forth. That's why I come here and

advocate and you know, reach out to

them. That's why you guys upload stuff

to the portal. Reach out to people.

Reach out to these offices. Reach out to

them. They listen. They will. If you

keep harassing them and talking to them

enough, you put a stink on the bill,

it'll go away. We're waiting for bigger

press. We've got obviously Lewis here

which has been amazing. First of all,

round of applause for Lewis for coming

out. Give this guy some love.

>> I didn't do anything. Thank you. I

didn't even carry my own camera. I know

you do. You are you're you're a walking

production. [laughter]

>> How are you? 1500 people.

>> Yes. 15. Yeah.

>> Point text. Thanks.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah. So, it's it's a battle and I think

that's it. And I think, you know, if you

have more questions, you know, I'm going

to we're going to keep putting stuff up

on 3D Printing Nerd. I'll be using my

Instagram to advocate for this and keep

it going. I'll be obviously in touch

with Lewis and we'll just keep through

this because eventually California's

bill will get all the teeth knocked out

of it or it'll get thrown and then next

year they're going to come up with

another one and another one because it's

easy and clickbay. So it's up to us to

make enough noise about this science and

start educating people or else they're

just going to keep doing whatever.

>> I said you're not going to let them win

though.

>> Oh no, we're not going to let anyone

win. No way. Arlene.

>> Yeah. I know I just wanted to say for

everybody who came out here today uh

make sure that you whoever you contact

make sure that you have three people

coming next week that you know so we

have a three times bigger group than

this that would be really lovely. So

reach out to your friends and and family

that are here or people that you know or

that are willing to travel here. If you

can multiply yourself times three that

would be great because then the

opposition is even bigger than it was

today because today it was already much

bigger than a few weeks ago. Um, and I

think uh seeing that swell rising is

really important. So, please do that.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. And for all the viewers, this is

Marlene. She's the CEO of fangs.com and

Shapeways. They're a key player in all

of this. Go check out their website. I'm

the executive producer of the show 3D

Printing Nerd. I also run the community

manufacturing initiative. My name is

David Tobin. And uh I think I don't

know. Is that it, Louis? We got more.

What do you want to do? How's the

street? How do you

>> I actually we I set up a live chat

server. It's like Zulip. kind of like

Slack or Discord or something solely for

people who are focusing on these kind of

crappy laws around the country. It's

segmented into separate rooms for

separate cities and states so that

people can kind of push back against it

in an organized way. I just wanted to

get the link so I could give it to

anybody who's interested in this. So

this way people can kind of stay

organized and up to date on it. So we're

do our organization is doing a tour

around the country where we're trying to

get laws that are similar to this either

reformed or repealed and we have a chat

server that's solely dedicated to trying

to like say here's when this law is

popping up, here's when this hearing is

popping up. So, if any of you are

interested in staying up to date on

this, I'm G. I I'll have a link for you

in a minute or two.

>> Excellent. That's fantastic.

>> Your camera's still looking at me.

>> It always is.

>> Uh, so there's a website for you guys,

for everyone out there to get

information. Uh, it's the

3dprintingerd.comab47.

That is once again the 3dprinting

nerd.com/ab2047

or on my Instagram which is david_tobin

t o i n. I'm going to be putting up

everything on there and obviously I'm

coming out here I'll be updating and

obviously after this and other things

that come up I'll do all the real-time

updates on my Instagram and that's David

tobin. It's a picture of me underwater

so make sure you get that. Yeah. And