Honestly, I would say that

[clears throat] 90% of the things I do

happen in the first 5 minutes. 90%. It

drives me crazy when we get in a room

and talk about it for 3 months. And I

respect process, but I think I know what

I want to do very quickly. We have such

a small label, so boutique, and we're

competing with these big companies that

have been around forever and have all

these other artists, and we didn't have

any artists. Mhm.

>> So when I met an artist and I like them,

Atlantis Morris said I signed off of one

song. Muse, I saw them perform one song.

It shows the artist the passion which is

very important. This person believes in

me that much. And also if I left it

available, maybe someone will offer them

way more money or make them other

promises. And I couldn't afford to not

make fast decisions

>> or else we would never have gotten to

where we got to. So, here we are sitting

in this beautiful home and I wanted you

to explain this beautiful calligraphy

behind you that I was admiring. Some of

the most impeccable handwriting I've

ever seen. What is it that's sitting

behind you?

>> That's purple rain lyrics by Prince.

>> Just incredible.

>> I'm a huge fan of Prince. When I was a

kid, I had Prince posters up on my wall

and I met him when I was 12.

>> 12? Yeah.

>> How did that happen? The place where I

was living with my dad, an apartment

building in West Hollywood, was directly

across the street from a hotel called a

Park Hotel. And that's when I started

meeting artists. I started becoming a

fan. I love music, but I became a fan,

you know, someone that would actually

wait to get their album signed or, you

know, and Prince actually signed

something for me. He wrote Love God. I

told him that years years later. We

became friends and became close. Was it

love God period or love, God?

>> It was love God.

>> Okay.

>> And it was sign prince.

>> Wow.

>> That was a long time ago because he

later on he he became a Jehovah Witness.

>> But you could see the posters. I had

like Billy Idol and Prince on my walls

and you could see it from the street if

you looked up. So you can come out if

you're waiting for your car or whatever

and you look and you'd see, okay,

there's someone up there likes music a

lot. I was on the first floor. There's a

little balcony there and and I come out

a lot to meet I met in excess and some

people I became friends with like Billy

Idol I became friends with years later

and Michael Hutchkins I became friends

with and Morrisy I became friends with

later but I met them all when I was a

kid and a really cool thing is other

kids were around then. They were older

than me but they were kids and so I

could hang with them and really get a

little camaraderie with some of the fans

out there that were waiting for the

bands.

>> I want to talk about addresses and

Beverly Hills High School. How did you

end up at Beverly Hills High School and

why?

>> Yeah, before Hills High School, I went

to a school in downtown LA. It was on

Pico in Arlington. So, it's almost on

the way to if you're going to go see a

Laker game, it's on the way to that. And

I went to that school and it was

incredible. So many great people,

different music was a big piece of that

of my journey there. I took a school bus

there and the kids would go between two

radio stations on the bus. So the bus

driver would play either KDAY, which was

the first hip-hop station in LA, or they

would go to K-Rock, which is the

alternative radio station in LA. And I

love them both. And so I met a lot of

really cool kids there who were in these

groups of people. The there were like

the punk rockers, the hip hoppers, the

break dancers, gang members, graffiti

artists. There just a great eclectic

group of people during that time period

where I'm just I'm a sponge. I'm just

picking up all the energies and really

falling in love with music. One night I

was outside the school dance. There was

the LA Dream Team. That's what they were

called. This this group that was

performing that night. And I was waiting

outside the school. I was very tall. I

looked a little older than than I was.

And it was late. My my dad was late to

pick me up. And while I was out there, I

saw I saw a guy running past me for his

life. And then I see a car turn the

corner. I guess he was chasing the guy

down. and a guy jumped out of the

passenger seat and pulled a knife out on

me and and asked me if I was with that

guy.

>> He asked me if I was in a gang and I

said, "I'm not I'm just a kid waiting

for my dad. I was school dance and this

is my school and so he got back in the

car to chase the guy."

>> And so, you know, there are no such

thing as coincidences, but my dad showed

up. I got in the car and I was like, you

know, I I almost died and and someone

pulled out a knife on me and and you

were late and and I want to go to

Beverly Hills High School next. And

again, there's no coincidences that that

just came to me right then and there

that I want to go from downtown LA to

Beverly Hills High and there was a TV

show 90210 back then. So, I thought I

want to check that out.

>> That's a different world from the world

I'm in now. I want to just see it. And I

didn't know at the time, but you have to

live in Beverly Hills to go to Beverly

Hills High School.

>> Yeah, it makes sense.

>> Yeah. I don't know why I didn't put that

together. [laughter] I just said that to

my dad and you know, we didn't live in

Beverly Hills and he knew I that's what

I wanted and he heard me. He he came

back to me and said, "There's someone

who I know who lives in Beverly Hills

and they will give you their address to

basically pretend that you live there so

you can go to that school that you want

to go to." And the combination of going

to school in downtown LA and also going

to Beverly Hills High right after, I

think that's a big part of of who I am

today.

>> Blending the two worlds.

>> Blending the two worlds. one or the

other like without the other would would

not have given me the perspective that I

needed.

>> What was the perspective that you got

once you were transported to this second

chapter at Beverly Hills High?

>> Once you walk through those doors, it

might as well be a TV show from where I

just came from. people have a lot, you

know, there's cars and there, you know,

there's homes [snorts] with pools and

just the optionality and the potential

of what they all had was pretty wild.

And and that actually inspired me to,

oh, I didn't know you can aim this high.

I don't have what these people have. I

don't have the means. I don't have the

money. I don't have the connections. So,

I better start working. I think at like

14 it really started to kick in where I

go cuz these people are going they go on

trips and ski trips and I don't know

anything about skiing. I don't know

anything about I I just I didn't live

that world.

>> So I knew that I needed to do something

about it. And I started to

>> I looked what what could I what am I

good at? What could I be good at? And

music was my love. It was my passion.

It's what I I was obsessed over. And so

I thought something in music

>> and that's [clears throat] when I

started to really pay attention to what

could I do around music. I drew music.

And then around 15 I really started to

pick that up and and at 16 I was already

like really running with it.

>> So I think this might be a good bridge.

If I'm missing something in between

these points, let me know. I'm sure

there's a lot that we could talk about.

But Bernie Brilstein, who is that?

>> So Bernie Brilstein is iconic in

Hollywood. He's one of the greats. He

was exceptional. He was one of the

original managers and he managed all

these amazing talents. A lot of the

talents from SNL, he managed all of

them. He started this idea

>> John Belalushi, Gary Chandling,

>> all of them.

>> And he was beloved. He looked a little

like Santa Claus. Was a really big guy

with a white beard. And when I was 15, I

started to compile artists that I liked

that were had demos. So, I would go out

there and try to find artists and try to

find new artists. And I had like the

yearbook person come and take photos of

these. And

>> this was on your own or were you working

on your own?

>> On my own. I didn't know what I was

doing. I just thought, let me put

together a portfolio. Let me have

someone take photos of these artists.

Let me create get the demos. One day

I'll get a meeting with somebody

>> and I'll have something to show when I

get the meeting.

>> Yeah. I'll have something to show. I

think I called it Wise Guy Records. Just

I didn't know what any of it meant, but

I had my little logo. So, I did

everything I could possibly do without

knowing anything or anyone. And then the

week I turned 16, I I remember it was

the week I turned 16 because I didn't

pass my driver test, [laughter] so I

needed to be dropped off. So, the week I

turned 16, I went to meet with Bernie.

What happened was is I I approached a

lot of the kids at school at Beverly

Hills High and I said, "Can I meet your

dad? Can I meet your dad? Can I meet

your dad?" Just anyone that was in

entertainment. And out of all the people

that I approached, I got two meetings

that would end up both being really the

most impactful meetings I could ever

have. And one of them, the first one I

got was Bernie Burlstein. And his two

boys, Nick and Dave, both

told their dad, you know, you should you

should meet with Guy. So I go meet with

Bernie. He was at the 9200 building on

Sunset. And I played him a song.

I don't even remember what group or what

it was at this stage, but I played him a

song and he just says, he looks at me,

he goes, "Well, hey kid, how much is it

going to cost to to put this out?"

And I knew not to pause cuz then he'd

know I'm a phony. So I said, " $25,000."

And he said, "I'll tell you what, kid.

I'll give you the $25,000.

If you make it back, pay me back. That's

all I ask."

And at the time, I'd never seen $2,500.

So, I just said, "Bernie, I'd rather you

make three phone calls for me to music

people." And I don't want your money. I

want you. And and he ended up putting

that in his first book, that story. He's

passed away, unfortunately. And he

always felt I said no because I just

couldn't take the money from him. I said

no because I didn't know what to do with

$25,000 and I was a phony. So until his

last days, he always thought in his

book, he's like, "The one guy that

didn't ask that didn't want to take my

money was Guy Oeri." It's not true. I

just didn't know what to do with it. So

he made those three phone calls for me.

>> Did he pick the people to make the phone

calls to?

>> Yeah. I had no idea. I said, "Three

music business people." He did, and I

got meetings with with a few of them,

but they never ended up

>> going anywhere.

>> Going anywhere at all. But what ended up

happening was is I came back home and I

thought to myself, "Wow, I'm 16 years

old

and this guy offered me as much money as

people make a year in one meeting." If

people feel they have talent, they don't

know really. There's no confirmation on

that talent. You know, people think,

"Oh, my mom says I'm a good singer or so

and so says I'm great at this." But you

don't know until someone confirms it.

until someone buys your book or goes to

your show or or whatever until

>> offers you 25K.

>> On that day, that was a confirmation I

needed that I'm on the right path. And I

went, that's it. From this point on, I'm

going to turn it up. I'm not looking

back. This guy offered me 25K in one

meeting. I just turned 16. I'm going to

stick to this. I can do this. And many

years later when I got my first gold

record, I sent it to Bernie because that

was so impactful on my life.

>> You mentioned two meetings.

>> Yes.

>> Was the other Freddy?

>> The other was Freddy De Man.

>> All right. Who is Freddy De Man?

>> So Freddy de Man, his daughters Nissa

and Polar connected me with their dad

Freddy. And Freddy was iconic as well. I

mean he worked on Thriller with Michael

Jackson.

>> Wow.

>> He managed Madonna. He managed some of

the greatest artists of all time and he

was just a really great human, great

guy. And he heard me out. It took a few

meetings to get Freddy to really go for

it with me. Not that long.

>> And this meeting was after Bernie.

>> Meeting was after Bernie. And he just

learned about me. He heard he heard my

pitch and I'm trying to do this, I'm

trying to do that. And he knew I didn't

really have any money.

>> Yeah. At that point, what was your

pitch?

>> Gosh, I think I just showing him that

that I I'm in the flow of music. I'm

around music. I'm around artists

>> the portfolio.

>> Yeah. I start but one one of the crews

that I was working with was Ice Tea. I

got very lucky got introduced my friend

Chris Boyd I met when I was working when

I was 15 at Fred Seagull and Chris Boyd

another guy was working there and he's

like oh I know I tea and his producer

Johnny Rivers and I go would you want to

come to the studio and check it out and

I'm like yeah I want to go. So he

brought me to the studio and actually my

first day in the studio Iced Tea goes

come in come into the booth and do a few

words and I'm actually on the album.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. He had me say like few words on

the album. But um but I started hanging

around and I'm like what could I do?

Could I could I clean up? Could I carry

someone's bag? Could I you know what?

How do I be helpful or of service? I'm

just so happy to be around this energy,

the music and artists coming in and out.

And he had a thing called Rhyme

Syndicate. So, a lot of the artists came

through there and I was able to be

around them and help and and then I

ended up becoming the manager of ICT's

DJ and his brother who's Henji and

Eively. Eve Lee is Ice Te's DJ. So, I

managed them. It's my first group I ever

managed. And I was 17. We got them a

record deal.

>> So, I had that and I always checked in.

I checked back with Freddy and said,

"Fred, I just got my first group signed

to record label." So he knew there was a

guy named Steve Riiffken who I met who

knew the record label. He helped me get

that first record deal.

>> So when I went to see Steve and I played

him he's DJ Evelan Brother Henji and I

said here's the music and said I I know

a label for you. So he helped me get my

first record deal. So I always write

Freddy and go hey Freddy I just got my

first group signed. I just I'm manager

you know and he knew I was how is he

pulling these things off on his own

without any help or any money. And so I

met with him and he said, you know,

Madonna and I are going to start a

record label one day. So I said to him,

I'd love to work there. I said, I don't

need any money. Which I did need money,

but I wanted to make it really easy for

him. I said, I don't need money. Just

give me an office and a desk. That's all

I ask. And he was like, okay. So he

brought me in as a, you know, scout cuz

one day they're going to start a label.

They didn't even have a name. They were

just they just knew they were going to

do it. So I'm scouting

>> and and then one day I I find Hole,

which is Courtney Love. I find their

first song, Teenage [ __ ] and I go, "Oh

my god, this sounds incredible." I just

just blown away by the sounds and the

lyrics and all of it. So I reached out

to the lawyer, Rosemary Carol,

and next thing I know, it's in the paper

the next day. Madonna is trying to sign

hole. How did that happen?

>> I mean,

>> would you ever

>> I made a I made a phone call. [laughter]

I was very naive back then, but it was

like Madonna's trying to sign Hole. So,

the next day, there was a show that Hull

was doing at the whiskey. I think Kurt

was there. Then Madonna was like, "Who's

this?" Wanted to talk to me about who is

this whole thing that you're think for a

second.

>> Yeah. So I go in a room and I play the

song for Madonna and for Freddy and it's

pretty wild. I mean the lyrics are like

when I was a teenage [ __ ] my mother

said she said baby what for? I was like

whoa you got to go back to that like

>> that time period.

>> They're like okay all right so go go go

after it. And so I went after it. I

didn't get it. It was between us and

Geffen Records and we didn't get it. It

went to Geffin Records, but my first

artist I ever attempted to sign was

Hole.

>> So, let me pause you for one second.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. So, the meetings

that you got with Bernie and Freddy. So,

you got two introductions. How many how

many kids at school do you think you

asked in total to end up with those two?

>> I think I probably asked five.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. I mean, I wasn't social guy. I'm

not on the football team. I was just

sort of my own music guy running around

and I didn't have much. So I did as much

asking as I can from who I could figure

out to ask. So I probably asked around

five. I remember I remember one person

specific saying my dad doesn't do that.

Whatever cuz it was rap. I was trying to

play. Oh, my dad doesn't do that. So but

I I didn't have any shame. I just I

needed I needed to figure this out. I

knew that my time was limited before

going to college and I better figure

this out soon. So I was on a hustle.

This is from an LA Times piece way back

in the day, 1997. It says something

along the lines of I gave myself a year,

which is why I kept pushing people for a

chance. Maybe that's accurate, maybe it

isn't. But did you apply pressure to

yourself in that way, like instead of

going to college?

>> No, I went to college. I went for half a

semester and I got my first group

signed, which was was just Henjini Vi.

And then I I remember going to my

English teacher.

>> I don't know her name. She was amazing

because I said, "Hey, I'm thinking of

dropping out and focusing on this thing

and she just looked at me and said, "You

could always come back."

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

>> It's wild to think about these just

chance.

>> That was it. And I go, "Oh,

>> I could always come back." Okay. So,

that was it. And by the way, I couldn't

even afford the $700 per semester, you

know, and all the things that came with

that.

>> So, I I had no choice. Sometimes having

no options and no choice is really the

best option. Where did the like hutbah

come from? Right. I mean, just that

drive. I mean, was that absorbed from

the parents? Were you just out of the

box, very different?

>> I fell in love with music in a big way.

>> But I think I realized how lucky I was

to be at Beverly Hills High and see

the potential of what was Yeah. of

what's possible. And I thought, "Wow,

not everyone is is this lucky. Not

everyone gets this opportunity." And and

by the way, I was scared that they would

kick me out cuz if they found out I

didn't live there, they kick you out.

>> So I had to watch how I went to school.

It was wasn't like an easy thing to do.

And so I just thought for every day I'm

here, I'm really lucky and I and I need

to pay attention to that. And I just

realized that if I wanted to change my

destiny, I [clears throat] needed to get

going.

>> And at what moment did you realize, oh,

I think this might just work out. I

mean, was there a particular

person or band you signed? Was there any

flash point or was it really gradual?

>> The Bernie Burlstein moment where he

offered me 25 grand the week I turned 16

was a big game changer for me. And then

there was a personal moment for me when

I got a car

when I finally passed my driving test.

took a few times when I finally got my

car. And I remember going to see my old

friends from my old school cuz I when I

drove it to Beverly Hills High, it was

Honda Civic.

>> When I drove it to Beverly Hills High, I

got not one person commented or said

congratulations or nothing. No mention

of it at all.

>> Sure. And then I went to my old friends

from my old school and then they

couldn't believe they couldn't believe

that I had a brand new Honda Civic and

they got in the car and they were

rolling down the windows and sticking

their arms and heads out and I was like,

"Oh, wow. Okay, I got a little

perspective there to go, oh, these

people at Beverly, they're not really my

friends. I'm here for a reason. I I was

put in in around this community for a

reason, which is to work and which is to

build my my name and to build the things

I want to do. And it wasn't until years

later I I told that story in that thing

you're talking about when I was 24 and

my, you know, my dad mentioned it was

really hard to even come up with the

money for that car back then. It was a

really big deal for us. It was expensive

back then. And so I think I need a

perspective a lot of the

opportunities that were in front of me

and to really appreciate them.

>> So it's a combination of those things.

>> And from the chapters we've discussed so

far, I mean was then the next phase

building your relationship with Madonna

primarily or where did you kind of hop

off past the things that we've already

discussed? Madonna and I the first real

connection was that whole connection

where I was like well play me this thing

that you like and then the second one

second artist I brought was Rage Against

the Machine and I really wanted to sign

Rage Against the Machine and so I took

her to the concert in New York the

Limelight I think it was called and I

didn't get them either. I didn't get

Rage. They ended up going with Michael

Goldstone at Epic Records. So you know

God the first two things I competed for

I didn't get. Well, not only did you not

get them, but they went on to be

>> Yeah, it was painful successes, right?

>> Yeah, it was painful. The third one I

that I competed for, I did get. It was

called Candlebox. And at that time,

actually, I think it outsold both Hole

and Rage. They ended up doing really,

really well. But regardless, Hole and

Rage, even to today, I still listen to

those. I love them. But I was very lucky

to get Candlebox. The fact that they

they bet on me and we didn't have

anything.

>> Yeah.

>> We just had this idea, you know, they

ended up selling 4 million albums on

that album. But I'll I'll never forget

that. I'll never forget that they gave

me that shot. That was the my first

success story was

>> they give you a shot, but just to repeat

what you just said, like you didn't have

much, right? Like they were placing a

bet on you.

>> What then goes into

helping make a hit album that sells 4

million?

>> Going back to that time period.

>> Mhm.

>> First is the music. I saw them. I I was

so lucky. I walked into almost

everything that I've been lucky on

happens within minutes, not within days

or weeks or months to think about it.

It's all intuitive and it's very fast. I

was supposed to be somewhere else that

night, but I went to I went to this

party. It was so bad that I thought,

"Oh, I have time to go see that showcase

of that band from Seattle." So, I go to

the lingerie on Sunset and I walk in and

and these guys start performing. Now,

there was a screen like a

[clears throat] like a video screen on

the side of the stage like and and then

there's a stage and I was looking at the

video screen. There were maybe like 30

people in the audience. It's a showcase

and I'm looking at that screen and I saw

thousands of people singing along to

that band.

>> In your mind,

>> I just in my mind. Yeah. But I went to

the pay phone from that performance,

called Freddy and said, "Fred, I have

our band. This is the band. I just saw

them. This is the one." And so it starts

with that. It starts with always starts

with the magic.

>> I don't care if you're tech company or

whatever it is, a film, a product, a

book. Magic. You got to have magic.

Something something has to pull you in.

>> And that night, I saw it. I visualized

it. And the songs were there. The songs

were so there that when we made the

album, their first two singles, we could

not beat the demo. They went into

re-record them for the album. So,

whatever they made for a few hundred

bucks that that I had with a a lot more

money and a lot more time, we couldn't

beat. And so, those songs, those first

two songs on the album are from the

demo. So, the music was there. They were

talented. The band was talented. The

singer Kevin is so great. And they

really did it the hard way. They chipped

away. They did show after show after

show took took few years for every week.

Every week little by little little by

little keyword is artist development and

people don't always develop that much

but it's something that we all want.

Every artist wants to have the time to

build have the time to develop and and

we really took that time week after week

after week developing that one. That's

how we got there. This is maybe jumping

ahead too far, but what would be an

example of that in your

investing later? Could be tech, could be

outside of tech where you saw something

or you talked to someone and it was

within a matter of minutes or one

conversation. You're like, okay, that is

that is a horse to bet on. Honestly, I

would say that 90% of the things I do

happen in the first 5 minutes. 90%. It

drives me crazy when we get in a room

and talk about it for three months. And

I respect the process. I know there is a

process to these things, but

I I think I know what I want to do very

quickly. It started out I think the

muscle that got built for fast sort of

response thinking or intuition was

really in the music business. We have

such a small label was so boutique and

we're competing with these big companies

that have been around forever and have

all these other artists and we didn't

have any artists.

>> So when I met an artist and I liked

them, Atlantis Morris said I signed off

of one song, Muse. I saw them perform

one song and I stopped them after the

they flew all the way from London to LA

to showcase for me and I after the first

song I stopped them. I said, "You do not

have to play another song." And they're

like, "We flew out all the way from

London. We'd like to play more music." I

go, but I just want you to know I do not

need to hear another song that just be

clear. So it shows the artist the

passion which is very important. This

person believes in me that much.

>> High conviction. Yeah,

>> high conviction. And also if I left it

available, maybe someone will offer them

way more money or make them other

promises. And I couldn't afford to not

make fast decisions

>> or else we would never have gotten to

where we got to. So, in any of those

examples, and I know this is possibly

very hard to verbalize,

someone said to me recently, and I

thought it was pretty funny. They're

like, "Yeah, in Silicon Valley, if you

say you're using your intuition, nobody

listens. But if you say pattern

matching, then they pay attention." But

if you were trying to explain what you

intuited or noticed in that one song,

understanding the music is good, but

what else are you picking up [snorts]

from those five minutes?

because you can't bet on everything,

right? Especially as a small label. So,

what were you picking up on that allowed

you to make a fast decision in that way?

>> Uh, well, I have to fall in love and you

know, you can't fall in love every 5

seconds. I didn't know I was going to

fall in love with Atlantis when she

walked in my office with Glenn Ballard.

They came in to play me. I didn't know

what that was going on here. I thought

they were a band. He was the producer

co-writer. You just have a feeling and

there is a lot of pattern recognition

later. Like now with experience,

>> now I bring other elements into the mix,

other things I'm looking for

>> that are different than back then it was

just I was just gut. It was just like I

I love it. I'm ready to go. You have I

feel it and you have to fall in love,

>> right? And later today, I I would say on

my tech investing and what I do there,

it's a it's a combination of gut, a

combination of pattern recognition. And

then

there's a few other things like one of

the things I look for is can I help it?

I visualize what I can do for the

company and that gets me excited too.

>> So I go, oh wow, okay, I have a feeling

I can help in a big way or I have a it

starts the puzzle starts to come

together for me very quickly. So that's

important. And then of course there's

the other aspect of well you got to make

sure they do what they say. Let's try

this thing out that you know let's make

sure the car actually shows up when you

press the app and it picks you up and it

well [clears throat] make sure the

things work. Make sure that you can stay

at the apartment and it's actually oh I

press the thing and I can get an

apartment.

>> These things have to work.

>> But for me it all starts with that

initial pitch.

>> How does Alanis Moriceet fit into your

life? Seems like an important piece of

the puzzle. Yeah, she played a big role

in my life. She

was the rocket ship. It just took me to

the next level. She appeared in my

office with her with Glenn Ballard.

>> Mhm.

>> And they played me one song. They played

a few songs, but the first song they

played was a song called Perfect. I

didn't understand how powerful

those lyrics were until later when I

really listened to it. Mhm.

>> It's really about earning your parents'

like, do they believe in you? Do they

love you? I don't know if you know

lyrics, but sometimes it's never quite

enough.

>> When you're flawless, then you'll win my

love.

>> Don't forget to win first place. Don't

forget to keep that smile on your face.

I didn't even understand. To me, it was

just, well, how is she putting these

words together? I just had never heard

anything like it. Again, later I

understood how powerful those lyrics

were. But at that time, I was just in

love with what I was hearing and I

hadn't heard anything like it and I

went, "I'm ready to sign you. I love

this. I'm all in." I didn't know

anything. Remember, I didn't know that

comparisons where people were like, "Oh,

I thought it was Joanie Mitchell." I

didn't know Jonie Mitchell. So, to me,

she was my Jonie Mitchell. I didn't

never listen to Jonie Mitchell before. I

listened to it later because of her. I

wanted to know what people were talking

about. But to me, she was my she was my

Jonie Mitchell. And I didn't know any of

the background. A lot of people

prejudged her because she had as a teen

did like a pop album in Canada. And so

people had all this background. I had no

background. I literally was asked to

meet with her and Glenn and I knew

nothing.

>> All you had was that meeting.

>> I knew nothing. They walked in and and I

thought, "Oh, wow." It felt like a

hippie group actually. I was like, "Oh,

maybe there's like some sort of hippie

vibe kind of what is this going to be

like kind of thing." But it was again

another life-changing moment when the

story is told. It's that everyone

passed. But I got it. I got I just felt

it in the first minute. And then we

ended up working together and working on

that album and that album ended up

selling 30 million albums and I think

top five debut album of all time. That

really just took me to the, you know,

cuz not only did I sign it, but everyone

else didn't want to sign it. So it's not

like I even competed. So it really

cemented that, okay, I'm in a good place

right now that I can do these things and

I this probably is going to give me more

opportunity to do more of these things.

So she's such a big part of my life and

she's so she's so talented. How lucky

that

years later she's right now she's still

winning awards. She's still out there

crushing. She's actually doing

incredibly well right now. And it makes

me so proud to have played any part of

that. It would be so sad to have missed

that one. I'm so happy to have been

fortunate to have gotten that that

meeting and to have figured it out. A

lot of people when they initially heard

it, I remember Freddy once asking me,

"What do you think this record could

sell before it ever came out?" And I go,

"Millions of albums." I just had a

feeling that I had not heard anything

like this and that this was a monumental

record. The rest is history. Rest is

history. I'd love to spend a little bit

of time on what you've learned from

Madonna. This is an older variety piece,

but the quote here that's attributed to

you is she mentored me and by working so

hard pushed me to work so hard. I didn't

know [ __ ] until she grabbed me by the

hand and said, "Let me show it to you."

And it goes on and it goes on. But what

did you pick up from Madonna? What are

the key sort of learnings?

>> I mean, there's some clear learnings and

there's stuff that with I'm 36 years

next to this woman.

>> Yeah.

>> And there's things that when you look

back, you go, "Okay, you know, I got

that like people who think about things

that I got that from my brother or my

mother or my

>> There are things that I didn't realize I

was getting the whole time." So, there's

both. The front part is pretty, I think,

obvious. You know, her work ethic is

>> not to be believed. Her commitment to

her craft not to be believed. her

passion for

just the greatest gifts of whether it's

through the books that she's reading or

through the art that she's finding or

the people that inspire her or the

designers or that she's so surrounded

herself with a collection of some of the

most incredible people in the world and

she identified them. By the way, she is

the greatest identifier. She found these

amazing talents early and and was able

to whether either could they be painters

or Freda Ko or they could be designers

or musical people like she's an

incredible finder of talent. I think the

thing that has really affected me the

most is

that she

doesn't see any kind of

there's no walls around her thoughts.

There's no oh I can't do that.

>> Right. in terms of constraints, right?

>> Yeah. Even going back to my first

experience at Maverick Records,

if you went to any record label,

they probably would have they would have

put me in a compartment. There's the R&B

department, there's a jazz department,

the rock department, reggae department,

pop department, hiphop department, and

you're oh, what department are you in?

And they and they sort of bucket you

into these things. And I think that when

I look back and I go, how did I not

really bucket myself? if I went from

this to this to that to that to that.

And I think it's it's really just being

around her has allowed me to never think

in a limited way

>> and they all work together. A lot of the

stuff I do on technology has allowed me

to bring that into my musical world and

to understand how these things work

together or the relationships and

they're so handinand and of course a few

decades later now people understand

that. But at the time it was so

>> it was it was it was very much like what

are you doing this tech thing is crazy

and you're not doing innovation is

innovation and how we can distribute

music or how we market and vice versa

all the stuff from music is you know

when you when you're launching a new

company you have you know these founders

are rock stars in my mind every founder

I invest in I look at them like they are

the rockstar I go that person has music

they want to share with the world they

have their album and my job is to

identify that artist, that founder

before everyone else maybe identifies

them. And my job is to help you reach

that audience. How do we tell the story?

How do we reach the base of your

audience? How do we grow your audience?

You know, what's your first single?

What's your second single? I still work

in that kind of process, which is very

musical in my mind. We're going to spend

a good amount of real estate on on the

tech. But before we get to it, I want to

take a moment to explore the the terrain

of film and how you ended up executive

producing Twilight and and all the rest

because as as you mentioned in a

different environment with a different

label, you would have been tightly

siloed and you wouldn't have had that

ability, right? How did you end up with

the fora into film?

>> I'd been signing bands for a long time

and running the record label and I

thought, well, why don't we do a film

company as well? And Madonna and I were

really in a good groove together and

thought, let's just let's just start

this film company. Why did that come to

mind?

>> I don't really recall that. I just

recall thinking about how people do it

differently. And so again, I didn't have

context. The best thing sometimes is to

have zero context. Sometimes fresh is

okay. Sometimes having a blank canvas.

And with films, I had a blank canvas. I

didn't know how it worked,

>> but I knew I wanted to make some films.

>> And I So I had this idea of

bringing in a bunch of producers under

one roof. And they were all independent

producers. And the idea was is I'll

bring them in and you know house them

and and give them support and pay for a

lot of the legal things that cost money.

When you're independent is it's a lot on

you,

>> right? All the back office, all of that

stuff.

>> We'll take all that on. We'll help you

and then we'll work on these projects

together. And we had like a lot of

producers that I if I was to to pay for

them, I couldn't have afforded it. But

we did it that way. and and out of that

came a lot of films and a lot of

Twilight and and Percy Jackson and a few

others that I was very lucky to be part

of. The guy who ran at Mark Morgan was

really good at it, but there were a lot

of complications.

And I was at that same moment that we

were that it started to take off, I

picked up Madonna as manager with my

partner at the time, Angela, and I took

on Confessions, which was the pretty

massive tour that year and I think the

biggest selling record of that year. So

as a I don't know how old I was back

then, but that was a major

responsibility for me.

>> Hard to ride both of those horses at the

same time.

>> Just that alone, just Madonna at that

moment in time for someone I had not

been a music manager for, you know, and

anything near that level. And so to take

that on and to, you know, work on all

things the tour and the album and all

that. And for people who have no context

on music at all, what does a music

manager do in that type of situation?

>> It's a tricky question because no one

manager is the same. Everyone's

different,

>> I guess. What was your umbrella of

responsibilities?

>> When Madonna started working on Ray of

Light, I found the producer, William

Orbit, but I was not managing her. I was

her partner at the record label Maverick

Records and not her own not Warner

Brothers which is where she was she was

on War Brothers but I was just we were

just friends and working together but I

fed ideas I found the director Yonas

Aland and so I was creatively really

working on this project called Ray of

Light. So we're already building a

creative rapport and on music Stefan

Sidenway the director introduced me to a

producer named Her Ways. He gave me a

demo. I loved it and I gave it to

Madonna and I ended up becoming music.

So I found on those two albums I really

even though I wasn't managing her I was

creatively helping here and there bring

in some ideas.

>> Mhm.

>> So we already had a rhythm on the

creative side. Now, there are some

managers that don't do any creative and

there are some that are very creative,

but I was coming from the creative point

of view on ideas, ideulating. Here's

here's things we could do. Here's things

we could build. So, I think I think for

me as that's the management that I am. I

I'm more creative. When I'm working with

someone, I I'm I'm sort of in it. And

there are other managers [clears throat]

I've worked with who they really just

they don't do the creative but they do

an incredible job managing everything

keeping you know putting together the

tour but they're not in there going what

if we did this of you know what if we

there's different kinds of managers I'm

creative for example when I showed her

Jonas Arland did a video for Prodigy

which is a band I signed and it was

really provocative and I just showed it

to her this guy this is crazy and she

goes he's doing my first video or or

he's doing that like you I showed her

there's a a guy named Chris Cunningham.

He made a song called Come to Daddy by

AEX Twin, which is really insane. It's a

$30,000 video. I just showed it to her

just to show her this. Look at this

crazy thing. And she's like, "That guy's

doing that video." So, she had Chris

Cunningham do Frozen, which is an

incredible video. And she had Jonas

Aland do Ray of Light. So, it was just a

really great back and forth. We had

really great energy together that I she

she was open to my craziness and and

then she would take it to the next

level. What and and this is this is my

even when I was very very young and

everybody knew Madonna. I was constantly

impressed by her longevity and ability

to seemingly reinvent herself. And I'm

just wondering why you think she has

been so consistently good at that over

decades. I mean, it was the first

example that I remember even as a young

pretty young kid be marveling over and

I'm just wondering if you could add any

any color to that. She doesn't sit

well on her past.

She's not high-fiving herself.

>> [laughter]

>> She's not really a Oh my god, I've done

all these. She's just keeps it moving

forward. Yeah, I think that that's a

that is, you know, part of the

inspiration for continually

trying to move forward myself is I'm

have a front row seat or shotgun to this

incredible

journey of this woman who just

continually

defies all the odds and

fights the fight. It is not easy. It

it's not just like it's not that she's

maintained or stayed around. It's

actually that she's had to fight her way

through it a lot. She's breaking ground

for a lot of other people who are coming

behind her who can say, "Oh, Madonna's

done it. I can do it." But it is no easy

feat. There is a lot of a lot of

[ __ ] to deal with.

>> And I think it comes from she just

doesn't celebrate her accomplishments.

She just starts like it's a brand new a

brand new day.

>> How did you end up and I don't know if

this is a good starting point but I'll

throw it out there as an example. Your

first consumer investment vitoo well

done.

>> Thank you. Uh, I don't know if that was

your 10th investment overall or your

first, but how did you end up edging

into the world of investing, whether it

was CPG and consumer stuff or tech? How

did that even come to be? Wow. Well, the

original

original original was

I was on a plane to Milan for an MTV

Awards

and I don't remember how old I was. was

in my 20s and I was reading in a

magazine about Sky Dayton and it said he

started Earthlink and he was worth $100

million and he was really I'm like wait

what you can wait what is he doing and

how old is he? And so I go when I get

back home I want to meet this guy. So, I

came back and I took me a while, but I

finally tracked him down and we went to

have lunch at Four Seasons Hotel and and

he was like, "Wow, if you're impressed

by me, have you ever heard of Bill

Gross?"

>> And I go, "No, who's that?" He goes,

"Well, he started a incubator."

>> Mhm.

>> And he's launched three billion dollar

companies in one year. And I go, "Sky, I

like you, but can you just [laughter]

can you get out of the way? I want

>> This time has been great."

>> Yeah. It's time to move on. I need to

talk to this Bill Gross guy. So, he sets

me up with Bill Gross. Bill Gross ran an

incubator called Ideal Lab in Pasadena

and I just loved it. I love the idea of

a lot of ideas. Reminded me of the

record label where you had all these

artists and you had all these project

managers

>> or the independent producers

>> a version of that and you can walk in

and out of different rooms and you can

say, "Oh, okay. What are we doing here?

What are we doing here?" And so he was

building all these different companies

and I would go in and out of ones that I

could be helpful to

>> and I would learn about it. So that was

like a oh, okay, an incubator. I really

fell in love with that idea. And there's

bad news to the story, but as like all

things, it worked out in the end.

>> Well, wait a second.

>> My listeners gonna kill me if I don't

follow. What's the bad news?

>> Well, I mean, the bad news is is that I

worked there for a year helping and then

one day someone I really trust that

they don't know it to this day, but

they're they're an incredible human. And

I was lucky to sit with them at dinner

one night and they were telling me how

Bill Gross is one of the greatest

investments they've ever made.

>> So I I called up Bill and and I go,

"Bill, I want to put money in into Ideal

Lab." And he goes, "Well, you know, I

was going to surprise you and I was

going to put, you know, X dollars in for

you from bottom of my heart for all the

work you've done here." And I go, "Oh,

what is that worth?" And he's like, you

know, he told me what he thinks it's

going to be worth when it comes out. And

I was, by the way, it's worth a lot. And

I go, that's not enough. I'm thinking,

right, I'm thinking to myself, that's

not enough. So I go, Bill, I want to put

more in, a lot more in. And he's like,

hey, for you, I'll let you do whatever

you want. And he did. He's he's really

really sweet guy. And that's the bad

news. I he let me do whatever I wanted.

>> What year was this?

>> It was before the crash. Right. It, by

the way, it wasn't a year before the

crash.

>> I think it was like an hour before the

crash. [laughter]

>> Okay. So, I put every dollar I have plus

dollars I didn't have.

>> I picked out three investments at that

time. Ideal Lab because of Bill Gross.

Bill was the first guy in I think in in

LA to have the Blackberries. So, I was

the first guy from Hollywood to even

know what the hell Blackberries were. So

I ended up buying 400 of them and I gave

them to all the people in Hollywood so I

could connect and when I needed to and

talk to them and and so I made a deal

with Jim Bowsley to be an adviser

because I was I was the guy that put it

in everyone's hands. This is smartphones

before anyone else was doing it. And

then I also my friend Seth Rossky

brought me vitamin water.

>> Yeah.

>> So those were going to be my first three

investments.

What happened was is the ideal lab thing

once I put that money in and I don't

know the the timeline cuz I tried it's

almost like something you want to wash

away from your mind,

>> right?

>> It collapsed.

>> Fever dream you're trying to forget.

>> The bubble burst so fast on all of that

that I didn't have the heart to invest

into. I never signed my deal with Jim

Bowsley and Research in Motion. And I

never and I never did my deal with

Vitamin Water, which both ended up, this

is almost like the the hole and rage

analogy. They both ended up being

massive.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I and I lost all my money with

the first one. So I learned about a lot.

I learned about diversification.

>> I didn't diversify. I put

>> the majority of my money in one thing

>> and I paid the price for it. I really

for the next two years I only thought

about that about 15 times a day.

[laughter]

It didn't matter if I was sitting here

with you right now. Back then I'd be

thinking about it. I' I'd have

conversation with you, but I wasn't

thinking about you. I was thinking about

how did I lose all my money on that one

investment. Everything I saved my whole

life. I was mad that Sky Dayton

introduced me. Like I was like mad at

all the wrong reasons, you know?

>> Everyone was just trying to help me. But

now I'm like, why did I even read that

magazine? I should just stayed in my

music lane. Yeah.

>> So, but what happened was years later

after my first Madonna tour, I started

to think about it again and I go,

>> I wasn't so off.

>> I was off. The timing was wrong on the

ideal lab part. The other two worked.

Had I diversified

incredibly well.

>> Yeah. You would have been great.

>> And so, I got two out of the three. And

the truth is is, you know, it's not fair

to Bill because he really built an

incredible company. and some of the

stuff that he had built ended up

becoming search for Google and a bunch

of amazing things but it just didn't

work out and that's life sometimes they

don't work out these deals

>> a lot of the time

>> I think I had done three Madonna tours

in a row so I came back at my you know

all the money I'd lost I made that back

to survive

>> and then I had a window where I knew we

were three tours in a row we're going to

take some time off and I thought to

myself I didn't get it so punk.

So, I'm going to try this one more time.

I'm good at identifying the ideas. I'm

good at identifying the talent. I'm

going to do it one more time. And that's

when I So, I started and the same guy

that brought me Vitamin Water, Seth

Rossky.

>> Did he later work with Reese

Witherspoon?

>> Exactly.

>> Huge.

>> Yeah. He's done well for himself. And

then he called me one day and goes,

"Hey, have you heard of this coconut

water thing?" So, of course, I'd heard

about coconut water. One, my wife is

Brazilian, and you know, my son, my

first son, his first words were like,

"Awa to cocoa." So, we drink coconut

water at the house. But the whole

coconut water sector

>> in America, if you added all the

companies together was maybe a five or

seven million business. It was nothing.

Nothing. But Madonna on tour, on the

previous tour, she would have the

trainer would go in different markets to

find fresh coconut for her for the

coconut water.

>> And I like, wow, every location we went

to, we had to find fresh coconuts. And

so I started to hear that other people

were doing that as well. Other people

who cared about their health were

drinking coconut water. I started to

see, again, back to pattern recognition,

I started to see this thing. And then

one day the New York Post ran an article

about coconut water. There's a photo of

Jazelle drinking from a coconut and

they're talking about coconut water and

I had cut that out. I put that article

on my desk and when Seth called me and

said, "Have you heard about coconut

water?" I go, "You have to be kidding

me. I have

>> sitting on my desk.

>> I have the only thing that I've torn out

that's sitting on my desk is an article

about coconut water. It's on my desk and

it's like my todo like I need to figure

this thing out and here you are calling

me." He goes, "Well, there's a company

called Vita Coco and out of New York."

And I go, "Uh, count me in." I got on a

plane. I went to meet with the founder,

Mike Kurban. The company was a I think

it was a $35 million valuation at the

time. And I literally just here we go.

I'm jumping back in. And I went in

really big. And I brought Madonna into

that. I brought Demi Moore. I brought

Matthew McConnA, Anthony Key. I brought

a bunch of people into this thing

because they were all healthy people who

drank coconut water. I'm like, "Let's

blow this thing up." And that was that

was the first time back after the the

crazy run.

>> For people who don't know, how did that

turn out?

>> It's a public company today. I think

it's $4 billion market cap.

>> So you were back in the game.

>> Yes. It takes time.

>> It takes time. Yeah. Didn't happen

overnight.

>> What were you

looking for?

How would you replay that meeting with

the founder in your mind? You fly out,

you meet with the founder.

How did you approach that meeting?

>> I think I approached it the way I

approached everything. It was it wasn't

let's think about it. It was like I'm

all in. Let's go. I want to do this.

Here's what I can do. And and I think

they were probably overwhelmed by whoa.

Okay, let's and we just ran. He's

awesome what he's done with the company.

We went public I think at like two

billion and now it's at five. Like he's

done an incredible job. So, we're going

to hop to some more recent examples

which may or may not include this chair

in a moment, but I want to focus on a

term or phrase that I've seen applied to

you a lot, which is great curator of

people. Chris Rock has said this.

Matthew, you just mentioned said this.

Woody Harlson have have all described

you in this way. And you seem very

intentional with

the people you surround yourself with.

Not only that, but you have these very

long-term relationships with a lot of

people. And I'm wondering how you think

about building relationships. I'm not

saying you have to come up with the

guy's ten commandments of long-term

relationships, but how would you think

about that? Right? If you're in front of

a class of students and you're like,

"Look, a lot of people get this wrong."

Or at least let me tell you how I

approach relationships. like any any

particular rules that you use for

yourself or just approaches, things you

keep in mind because that's certainly

not true for everybody, right? You just

have this long-term

cohesion of these people around you. And

I'm just I'm wondering if you can

perhaps just speak to that in any way.

Well, I think it started early in my

teens. There was a a group of us that

were running around and all we found

each other.

>> So you find the other people who are

also on the hustle who are also

creative. I wasn't a comedian or

musician or an actor or a director. I

was like an executive.

>> Mhm.

>> And there's a little responsibility.

He's a responsible one. I don't drink. I

don't do drugs. So I I found my position

was to really

be a safe zone for people and they knew

I worked with Madonna which pretty much

gave a lot of credibility to okay this

guy is she trusts him maybe we should

trust him maybe back in the day but I

think over a period of time my house

became the place that people would come

to or people would congregate and feel

safe you know even when I do events here

or anything there's not a lot of photos

there's no cameras like I I think safety

and support has always been in my DNA

from an early age of just making sure

that people are protected and again I

think I identifying really incredible

people to be around same way identify

the greatest companies to invest in like

I think I identified really amazing

incredibly talented friends who inspire

me and who've been who you know early

days may not you may not have known them

30 years ago but you identify them you

they identify you and so there's

camaraderie and there's this trust and I

do try to bring them all together a lot.

I I think it's important.

>> That was going to be actually my next

question which is along those lines

which is how often do you gather people

whether it's at this house or at events

that you put together just to facilitate

that long-term cohesion. How how often

do you organize or host things like

that?

>> A lot. I think I even if I'm landing in

New York this week, I'll probably do a

dinner and I'll invite the 15 or 20

friends and we sit down and we talk and

we So, I'm always staying connected and

in touch.

>> It's not like, oh, I haven't talked to

you in a year. No, I'm checking in on my

friends a lot.

>> I'm finding out how they are and always

we're I'm always checking in on

everybody.

>> Mhm.

>> I grew up just with my dad. My two

sisters were older. They weren't they

weren't around. So, my friends are

really like they're my they're

everything I had. I didn't before I had

a family. My friends were

>> everything to me. I'm lucky I get to

work with some of my family. You know,

Madonna's I've been beside her for 36

years.

>> The Chili Peppers, my best friend in the

world's godfather of my first son is

Anthony. The whole band, all of them,

Flee, Chad, John, they're family. So,

it's a dynamic that I've chosen for

myself is to really support and be

around my friends a lot. It's a big part

of my life, which is to keep that close.

And again, if someone's in need, you

know, this is the number. Call me. I

want to hop back to the investing. I

mean, you've you've had a lot of hits.

Airbnb, Uber, Spotify, it goes on and on

and on. I mean, I don't know how many

IPOs and so on that you've had. I mean,

gazillion. Let's talk about one. So, you

put in, tell me if I'm getting this

right, 35 million at a 5 billion

valuation into Anthropic. This is a

company that's been in the news a lot. I

think the last round was what, 965

billion, something like that. Are those

numbers roughly accurate?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, that's pretty nice multiple so

far. You know, we'll see how things go.

How did that anthropic deal happen?

Well, it starts a little before the

day that OpenAI came out was on my dad's

birthday, Chat Chippy PT.

It was life-changing. And I you remember

those moments. And again, I go back to

music. I remember when I heard Smells

Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana. I pulled

over the car and I went, "What is this?"

And when Chhat GPT came out, that was a

what is this moment for me. And if you

saw me any time after Chat GPT came out,

I would have harassed you to show you

Chat GPT. There's no one, every artist,

every actor, everyone I walked around

and met. I'm like, check this out. Check

this out. Check this out. And I was

obsessed. And I called Ashton and I

said, Ashton, this is it. Open AI. We're

doing OpenAI. This is the greatest thing

I've ever seen. We have to do it. I have

to do it. I have to do it. And so that

was our first this is the one we're

going to go after. But then when we

first started investing, Ashton and I,

it was when the iPhone and the app store

were happening. And so for the first

time ever,

you can scale companies like never

before. And I think anyone would have

done well at that time. We were like

lucky people that came in at the right

time and were looking at the right time

and started our fund at that very

moment, which is crazy. And so we had

this incredible success because of that.

I saw it again back to pattern

recognition.

If you fast forward, we're we're still

using Uber and Airbnb and Spotify. We're

still using those things from that time

period. And we felt that this is it.

these foundational AI models in 10 or 15

years will be how we plug into all these

things. So,

we really felt like we had a 3-month

window. We told people we have a

three-month window. Now, it came out

November 30th of 2022.

So, there's not much you can do. This

people are going away. There's this

Christmas time break, blah blah. But as

soon as January came, we went out there

and told people, "This is the vision.

We're going to do a foundational AI

model fund."

>> I got it. LPS mean.

>> Yeah. Raise money. Raise money and

create this fund, which is which was a

crazy idea at the time.

>> Now, had you already confirmed that

you'd be able to get allocations or you

just had complete confidence?

>> Ashton spoke to Sam, we were able to get

OpenAI. What happened was is I'm very

close to Mark Beni off and Salesforce

ventures. People don't really understand

how smart they are. They don't get

>> They're really smart.

>> They don't get all the press on. They

are one of the best investors in the

world. There's two guys there, John

Simari and Paul Drews, who were when I

was doing my research cuz now I'm on the

I'm on the lookout. What should I know

about an AI? Once I find out about

something, I just lock in. So, and and I

want to know everything about it. And I

I was as I was doing my research, I was

finding out that they were going to do

anthropic and they were very bullish

about it. And I found out from a friend

that works with like a job hunter kind

of people who help find jobs for people.

>> Oh, like head hunters.

>> Head hunters that everyone's going to

this company called Enthropic, you know,

like people are really going to this

anthropic place and they're not going

anywhere else. I'm like, whoa, okay, I I

need to pay attention. So I I asked Paul

and John connect me with with this

founder Dario. So they connect me with

Dario and Nero. They come here in this

room and that's where we made the deal

to invest in in Anthropic. So we did a

bunch of other companies in that

foundational AI fund. It was a

three-month window.

>> So it was before a bunch of other things

have come out since.

>> But we we set ourselves up for exactly

what we did. this is going to be within

3 months. We're going to deploy 80% of

the money within the next 3 months. And

that's what that's what we did and

that's over 3 years ago.

>> How did you know the window was going to

be so narrow? Right. I imagine did you

get any push back from LPs when you said

we're going to deploy 80% of this in 3

months?

>> Well, we didn't have there was no LPs,

meaning we just it was that was the

pitch.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, it wasn't like we it wasn't like we

raised money.

>> They either bought in or they

>> Yeah. It wasn't like we raised money and

then told them the pitch. It was like

here's the pitch.

>> Here's what we're going to do. There's a

window of opportunity here. We think

this is the future and that was it.

>> They had opted in.

>> Yeah. Opt in or opt out. We didn't know

what we were going to raise. It just

whatever came up is what it was going to

be.

>> So I was trying to pull from memory, but

looks like sound at this point is that

86 exits and 26 IPOs. That's insane. I

mean that is

>> it's been fun. [laughter]

>> You have seemingly different batteries

certainly. I mean, you've got good

batteries. What is the next

5 years, do you think, look like for

you? I mean, is it is it more of this

type of investing? What do you see? Is

it switching gears entirely and looking

at the prison through a totally

different way? I mean, what is what is

next for Guy? I feel like

going back to the core, really honing in

that antenna for the greatest talent in

the world, the greatest ideas in the

world. This is an incredible time where

people can scale up a company

in in the quickest ways. And I'm excited

about the potential of what's to come.

I've already identified three things I

want to do today. So, I can only imagine

what's to come. But it's just really

just I don't I'm okay doing a version of

what I've been doing, which is identify

great talent and help them help them in

every which way that I can and pick the

teams that you want to back.

>> So, I I I'm I'm feeling pretty good

about that. They're just continuing on

this best-in-class talent idea. The hard

part is for a lot of people is the

access. So we're very lucky we have

access and we also do the job. We we

have more than enough proof of

people that come through when you work

with them.

>> And we're a different kind of investor

on the cap table.

>> We're not in the valley. We're here in

Hollywood. And we bring a different

dynamic, a different, you know,

obviously narrative is something that I

that I'm very focused on. Marketing is

something I've been doing since I was a

teen. And so, you know, marketing,

strategy, media, partnerships,

narrative, storytelling, hey, if you

want someone like that on your cap

table, I might be interesting to you and

hopefully I can be helpful. And that's

what I need to find that dynamic of a

company that I'm in love with. And

hopefully the founder believes that

having me would be a great advantage to

them.

>> Mhm. A lot of founders listen to this

podcast. Is there any uh are there any

particular things that

have your interest right now or types of

companies, types of founders? Anything

that you'd like to sort of make clear to

people who are listening or otherwise?

Also, where can people learn

[clears throat] more about what you're

up to? like is is there anywhere that

you would point them in particular?

>> I'm a generalist.

>> Mhm.

>> I don't I don't care. That particular AI

fund was very specific and we may have

thematic funds from time to time. If an

idea comes and you go, you know what,

I've got an idea. It's going to be built

around this one idea. But usually I'm a

generalist. I really like

>> I just like talented people. And in

regards to sharing, you know, where can

they find out what I'm up to?

>> I'm not really This is it.

>> Yeah, this is it. You know, as you know,

this is my first podcast.

>> Yeah.

>> And depending how this goes, could be my

last. And if it goes well, maybe one

more. But I I'm I'm not out there.

>> Everything is is is has been fine

without doing that. Yeah. You know,

people either find us word of mouth

through friends or I find them. It's

okay. It all works out. I'm not out

there, you know, yelling, "Hey, find me

1800 whatever." Or it's like it'll it'll

work itself out. the right people will

find each other.

>> Well, Guy, I mean, we've covered a lot

of ground. Is there anything else that

you would like to say before we start

landing the plane?

>> I'd say that

AI and music content. It's on one level

exciting that so many people are

experimenting,

writing songs for the first time,

>> writing beats, creating sounds for the

first time. That's pretty exciting. At

the same time, the idea that there's

companies out there

valued at billions of dollars

that are built on the top of

other people's music

where not one artist has ever gotten

paid a dollar is not okay.

>> Yeah. So, I don't want to bundle it all

up where people get it all becomes one

thing. It's not all one thing. Mikey, he

runs. He's a great guy.

>> I mean, great guy, like I really like

him as a person, but every time I read

about the company and it's now at a $5

billion valuation and next thing you

know, it's at a $10 billion valuation

and it's all built off of the world's

music.

But yet, not one music artist has gotten

a dollar.

>> So, that's not okay. That has to be

fixed. I'm hoping Mikey does the right

thing and fixes that. Comes up with a

system

>> that allows artists if they want to opt

in. Either let them opt out, do not use

my music to build your business. Okay,

I'm opting out. But if I opt in, find a

way to pay us. Mhm.

>> And I'm really concerned for that

because the other part which is

right now currently

every two weeks

more music is made on AI than all of the

music that's on Spotify today.

That's every two weeks.

And all of that is going somewhere and

people are inspired and they're creating

songs. Awesome. But don't build a

business

using our music without getting those

rights. And that's something I'm that

I'm been trying to work on for a long

time. I've met with Mikey many times.

I've met with lots of people many times.

I I hope that this gets solved. You

know, when Napster first started, I met

with Sean and Sean when they started

because it was so exciting to see people

were all, you know, downloading music,

but it was illegal. So, you were hoping

they'd crack the code on, okay, how do

you turn this into how artists get paid

and before they I don't know if they

were going to or not going to, but

before that could even happen, it got

shut down. So, and out of nowhere,

Daniel Ek in Stockholm

built Spotify and figured out that

people would pay for music if you give

it to them in this way where they had

all the music in the world without

having to try to piece it together or

try to illegally download songs that

were not even clean or clear and they it

could be corrupt.

to get it clean, to hold on to it,

they'll pay for it. And he was right.

They have paid for it. Now, are all the

payment plans there picture perfect? No.

But it is the core of where money is

coming in today to music artists is

through streaming. And I'm hoping that

people figure out how if you're going to

be using people's music, how you pay for

it.

>> Yeah.

>> Fair use is not fair.

>> Yeah. I'm curious to see where it goes

because if you say create a song that

sounds like Metallica, it'll say we

cannot serve up any copyrighted music.

If you say, "Serve me up some music that

sounds like Moralica." And you just

misspell it, then lo and behold, it

looks like it was trained.

>> Yeah, that's the problem.

>> This corpus, there's a lot of

workarounds and they'll, you know, you

they'll look you in the eye and tell

you, "No, no, you can't. You cannot type

in Madonna."

>> But you can sort of describe Madonna.

The problem is is when in in Discovery

we're going to find out a lot.

>> Sure.

>> And Discovery is going to say all of

this music is in there and they know

that.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's not okay. It's just like

literally not okay. I don't understand

it. And by the way, what's wrong with

paying artists?

>> Yeah.

>> Why not figure out a way to do it? Sit

down with a team, figure out how to pay

music artists if you're going to train

on their music.

>> Where do you think it goes? Because I

could see one future. for instance, even

if

legally they aren't required or for

whatever reason that's not compatible

with the vision they've pitched to

investors and and I'm not singling out.

I mean, there are lots of lots of

different options here.

>> They're the main ones.

>> They're the big they're the 800 pound,

>> but I could see a point at which

possibly

>> Claude Chat GPT become the interfaces to

everything, right? It's almost like the

app store but somewhat like WeChat in

China. Like if you want to do anything,

you want to book a restaurant, you want

to make a song,

>> okay,

>> there are few interfaces to everything.

At which point then

>> those companies, right? OpenAI,

Anthropic

>> can gatekeep in some way and maybe they

end up being the entities that

incentivize these other companies like

the Sunnas of the world to to reimburse

artists. I guess I'm just wondering if

you have any thoughts on this

>> because if if Claude or Chat is the

distribution,

>> they probably won't carry it because

it's it's got so many lawsuits involved

>> and it's just not worth

>> taking on that responsibility.

>> And

>> again, the guy who runs I find to be a

really good guy and I'm hoping that he

does the right thing, but it's really

their responsibility. They're they're

sitting at the the top of this

opportunity. Take off the artists that

don't want to be on there

>> and find a way to pay the ones that are

okay being on there. It's that simple.

It's not complicated. I think go in a

room, lock yourself in a room for 3 days

and come out and figure out how to pay

people and take people off

>> that don't want to be on there. Madonna

does not want her music trained on.

>> Don't care what you want to pay her.

>> Yeah.

>> She's very clear. I do not want my music

to be trained on. I want my music to be

its own thing.

>> Mhm.

>> So, take her off.

>> Yeah.

>> It's okay. you you'll still do fine.

Take her off. You don't have to have her

music.

>> So, we'll see where this goes. But this

is I've been the last few years I've

really tried to figure this out. And