I didn't realize it until I got older I

was just a young kid and that was

molested

[ __ ] please welcome Charlamagne the god

co-host of The Breakfast Club and

America's most influential radio host

growing up my father was telling me if

you don't change your lifestyle you

going to end up in jail dead or broke

the problem was he wasn't practicing

what he was preaching when I started

selling drugs I found out he was selling

drugs then he had an affair on my mom so

I became a player because I felt I had

to be like my pops but then I ended up

getting in a situation where a shooting

happened and going to jail but I was

able to finally wake up and I was smart

enough to realize whatever I want to be

doing 5 years from now I got to start

doing now and then the microphone

ultimately changed your life I didn't

know that you had 12 years of rejection

I got fired four times I just collected

my last unemployment check I was scared

to death but you can't live life with

fear you got to live life with faith

next gig I got was The Fast Forward 3 4

years I'm having more success than I've

ever had in my life but I just was not

happy I was losing myself and um those

Suicidal Thoughts just cross your mind

for no reason you know and even even

now what what am I still doing

here man

we've just hit 6 million subscribers on

the D Co um so me and my team would like

to do something we've never done before

as little thank you and we're calling it

The di Co subscriber raffle and here is

how it works every episode this month

we're going to pick three current

subscribers at random and we'll send one

of you a 1,000 voucher one of you

tickets to come and watch the dire SE

behind the scenes live with our team and

one of you will have a 10-minute phone

call with me to discuss whatever you

want to talk about if you're a

subscriber you're in the raffle thank

you from the bottom of my heart for

allowing me to do something that me and

my team love doing so much it is the

greatest honor of my lifetime and I hope

it I hope it continues uh off into the

Future Let's get to the

[Music]

episode get honest or d

Ling why did you choose those words why

did you choose that title um it's a play

it's a play on 50 cents Get Rich or Die

try you know um I'm always going to have

have you know some some some old hip hop

you know somewhere like my last book was

was shook one you know that was paying

homage to mob deep but also um you know

just talking about how I felt my whole

life when I would get get panic attacks

get anxiety attacks and get honest to

die ly that's you know not just to play

on 50 cents title that's how I truly

feel it's like yo if you don't get

honest with yourself you're going to die

lying like you know I had a um I went to

a spiritual Retreat you know back in

February me and my wife and like that's

one of the things that came up for me

you know that that that weekend at The

Retreat one of the things that came up

for me was stop lying to yourself and

stop volunteering those lies to others

and I think a lot of us do that you know

a lot like we we lie to ourselves and

then we just volunteer those lies to

other people like nobody even asked us

you know and I think I think social

media you know uh contributes to a lot

of that because every day you feel like

you have to you know feed this beast and

like you know you might go look at your

feed and at some point you got to ask

yourself who is this person you know or

just the just the things that you you

know say to people you know in your life

as you're as you're as you're just you

know growing and and evolving just as a

human you might just volunteer lies you

know for security purposes or the mask

the mask insecurity are you know the

mass fears and so it's just like yo if

you don't start getting honest with

yourself you going you going to die die

a liar the truth and the lies start

young for all of us absolutely

especially if you look at the stats for

black men because um they are much less

likely to get to the point where they

can get honest with themselves in their

whole selves their mental health

everything when I read through your

story I met an individual that I never

knew before I've watched The Breakfast

Club for years years and years and years

I've probably watched it for a decade I

think something something like that it's

always been my connection with us

culture has been watching that show and

I watched the guy that was a bit of an

antagonist to the guests coming on but I

never knew all of the other stuff and

you're one of the only black men that I

encountered especially in the United

States that has a big sort of public

figure who has been so unbelievably

honest

about what it is to be a complete man

and the complete Human Experience and

your complete experience that starts

very young if I am trying to understand

and the man that sits before me right

now where do I have to start to truly

understand oh you got to you definitely

got to start from the beginning you know

you got to start from that single wide

trailer you know in mon Corner South

Carolina you know growing up as as as a

young man you know to a a great great

father and a great mother I I say great

you know now in regards to my father

because I understand him as a man you

know there was a period in my life you

know especially when I first started

going to therapy I didn't know if I even

like lik him as a person you know

because you know you got to question

yourself you question things that he did

to you growing up you know just uh I

always said my dad raised me out of fear

and not love but the fear was just from

the standpoint of he didn't want me to

you know make the same mistakes that he

did and he didn't want to see me make

the same mistakes that he saw a lot of

people in our town making like you know

the one thing that he used to always

instill in me was like if you don't

change your lifestyle you going to end

up in jail dead or broke sitting under

the the tree and I think that's what

happens with kids a lot right like kids

you they end up miring you know the

parent and I think sometimes when you

see yourself you know in your child if

you made a lot of mistakes and you know

you bumped your head a lot of times man

that'll probably terrify you to see your

child going down that that same path so

for me my journey would definitely have

to start um in Monks Corner South

Carolina in that in that single wi

trailer on that dirt

road you grew up in a a single trailer

in a a dirt road with a father that

seemed to be pretty absent from what it

says in your book you talked about him

raising you there but it sounded like he

very much also didn't raise you no he

was absent in the sense of he had his

own issues that he was dealing with you

know and I didn't find that out until

you know 2018 when I put out my second

book shook one anxiety playing tricks on

me where I really opened up about a lot

of my anxiety and a lot of my depression

and going to therapy I never forget it

it was Thanksgiving um it the week of

Thanksgiving

2018 and uh I had a younger cousin he

was like 24 25 years old he tried to

complete suicide four different times

and on the fourth time he he completed

it and it was the week that he completed

it and then on that on top of the fact

my father had just read my second book

he said to me um he called me and he

said you know he he talked about my

cousins and he talked about my book and

he said man I I was going to therapy two

and three times times a week and I tried

to kill myself you know 30 plus years

ago and you know I was on 10 to 12

different medications for my mental

health so when he said that to me I

already knew that he had the substance

abuse I knew he dealt with the substance

abuse issues right but I knew that but I

didn't know the other aspect of it so

when I realized that I'm like oh I get

it cuz my dad was absolutely you

know there when he was you know sober

for the most part or when he wasn't

dealing with his own issues but when

like I said the the the the way he

raised me was out of was out of uh fear

you know more than love but he

definitely you know had his foot on my

ass like on you know in a in a real way

just because he didn't want to want me

to make those um those same mistakes but

you know I always felt

like um growing up we didn't have the

the kind of relationship I wanted to

have that I would think a father and son

would have but that's only because he

was dealing with his own issues and then

he started you know having a an affair

on my mom so he really wasn't in the

house then like he was you know off off

with his his new family how what age

were you it had to be like 90 98 so

maybe I was

19 20 I probably might have been like

1920 when he when he like left the house

I I think can we model our sort of Al

relationships

we model our idea of relationships based

on the relationship we first see with

our parents I think about my own my

mom's Nigerian my dad's English a

household that was very loud to say the

least and I always thought my dad was in

prison so growing up I never had a

relationship because I thought women

were like I thought it was prison and it

was only until I got to about 30 years

old that I had a real relationship but

then I've had to go to therapy with my

partner over and over again to get out

of like being triggered by this idea

like whenever we have conflict I'm like

run cuz I always wanted my father to run

my mom so same same like I had that deep

in me that relationships were prison and

when I read through your story and

looked at your father and you know his

infidelity with with your mother I was

wondering how that impacted your future

perspective of what a relationship is oh

it had me it had me bad for a while CU

you know I've always been the type

person I like being with one one partner

you know what I'm saying I like being

with one woman like that's something

that I always thought was really cool

growing up probably because a lot of the

images that we saw especially on TV back

then it was always the nuclear house old

it was I was like the the mother and the

father whether it was you know the Cosby

sh whether it was Martin and Gina you

know whether it was you know the

Windslow on Family Matters like you know

whether it was the the Evans on Good

Times before James died whether it was

the Jefferson like you always saw you

know a black man you know with a with a

with a black woman and they had a family

like that was what I always that's what

I thought the American dream you know

consisted of so that was like always

something in my mind that I wanted and

then uh I remember when I found out my

PO was cheating on my mom and I remember

just confronting him about it and just

asking him I never forget it he was in

my uh in my room with my mom's house and

I used to have like this one of those

exercise bikes in the room and he was

riding he was on he he wasn't working

out but he he came in to get on the

exercise bike cuz I needed to talk to

him and I bought it up to him and I

remember him just saying to me like yo

so so you only got one woman huh looked

me right in the eyes and that's what he

said he was like you only got one woman

huh and I was like what you mean I only

got one woman he was like huh you know

like when you get older you'll

understand like literally so planting

that in my head just made me feel like

am I doing something wrong am I supposed

to have you know one woman so I spent

like a large majority of my life trying

to trying to show him that I was like a

player I was like I was like my Pops I

was like you know I was I I I had I had

I had a I had a roster too right only

for him to come all the way back around

to tell me I always had it

right literally don't only come back and

tell me you know one of the worst

mistakes he ever made you know was was

was was leaving leaving my mom or or

causing my mom to leave him however

which way it went and I I remember him

saying that to me and he just was like

man you know you you you you've always

had it right but that just kind that

shows you right just because somebody is

older than you you know doesn't mean

that they're they're right doesn't mean

that they're always correct like we're

always growing we're always evolving if

we allow ourselves too and you know

we're going to figure out later on in

life that yeah we did make a mistake you

know doing whatever it is that we were

doing and we should be able to admit

that no matter the age and correct it no

matter the age eight years old your

cousin's ex-wife had a sexual encounter

with you MH and you talk about these

sexual encounters changing your

personality

thereafter when did you decide to speak

about this and and when did you begin to

learn the implications that that one

instant sort of incident when you were

that age had had on you throughout your

life well I used to always make jokes

about it right because I you know I used

to always say um you

know I I I used to always say that I

used to buy these there used to be like

these little firecrackers that were like

these little poppers so you could throw

them on the ground and they would pop

and so it's like one day I just started

throwing them at her cuz I didn't want

her to touch me and um when when I did

that she started calling me ugly like

literally from that moment like oh you

ugly you got a big nose you know she'd

be telling everybody look at his no I

think his nose is swollen so like to the

point where my grandma God bless the

dead would like take cream and put it on

my nose to try to reduce the swelling it

wasn't swollen she was just messing with

me so in my mind it was like a

psychological thing like she was she was

she was messing with me mentally and how

old was she I don't know you know she

was 30 40 50 oh yeah she was definitely

older yeah yeah yeah and you were eight

I was eight yeah yeah yeah and um I

remember her I remember her uh me

telling people the reason I made her

stop cuz I didn't like to smell of her

Jerry cut so that was always that was

always the joke and I remember watching

uh Tyler Perry on the open Winfrey Show

and I remember watching him cry over a

older woman who molested him and I

remember thinking to myself what's wrong

with him cuz the way we rationalized it

in our mind is like when you young you

just used to talk about it like it was a

sexual encounter and it was when I think

about it now like I had like me like you

know three of my other younger friends

and all of us were talking about these

sexual encounters we were having with

older women so now that I think back on

it I'm like damn we all was getting you

know molested you just don't look at it

like that when you're a young man when

you look at it when you're a young man

you look at it like I'm just getting

action early so when I saw you know

Tyler on Oprah that's when I first

started like thinking about it and I

remember this was I forgot what year

this was but this was way way way back

in the day but I remember there was

Twitter and remember tweeting about it

but I was tweeting about it in just like

you know like wondering like what the

hell is wrong with Tyler Perry you know

but then I had to start asking what's

wrong with me that like I that I'm not

reacting to being molested the way that

you know he is but then you don't even

realize that it's molestation till you

get old at least I didn't realize it

until I got older and I was like oh I

was getting molested and then when you

start going to therapy and you start

peeling back you know the layer of that

that that trauma you start

realizing oh this is why I am the way I

am in regards to pleasing people because

I felt like even though what she was

doing to me was wrong and it made me

uncomfortable and I didn't like it I had

to keep doing it so she'd stop calling

me ugly cuz her calling me ugly was

really really really hurting my feelings

you know what I mean as a young

8-year-old kid so that's that leads to

you being a older adult who's a constant

people pleaser because you don't want to

let nobody down because you know if you

let them down then they'll talk bad

about you you know but that you realize

you got to set those boundaries because

if those people are going to if if

making if you making yourself

uncomfortable is the only way to please

said individual that individual don't

need to be in your life that's not

somebody that you have have have in your

your circle at

all you've never gone back and found out

who that person was and that done

anything about it no I see her you still

see her yeah I've seen her I've seen her

I've seen her around in my hometown

absolutely you're not interested

in N last time I saw her actually she

came up to me this was about let me see

2024 this probably had to be before Co

you know she came up to me at at at a

house party and she was like oh you so

handsome and I was like you you been

thought I was handsome Beat

It Like You Been thought I was handsome

like knock it

off y your behavior becomes problematic

15 years old

1993 I watched I sort of read through

from you were 15 up until you sort of

early 20s up to sort of 23 years old and

there was um quite

a shocking pattern of behavior involving

drugs and other things I I was wondering

not that early 15 I was still in I was

still in high school so I was I was I

was I was the disciplinary problems from

started in Middle School it started when

I was in like seventh grade and the

disciplinary problem started just

because you know my older cousins were

like what you would call I guess

bullying me right like they would I was

wearing glasses and I had the fanny pack

and I was in like what they had they

they used to call it uh the classes were

broken down in letters so it was like a

A and C were for like the smart students

right so I was in like the a class and

there was only like two black people in

the class two or three black people in

the class right rest is all white and so

like I would be with a lot of white

people for the most part and like my

cousins who were all from my daddy's uh

side of town they would bully me like

literally like they would just beat up

on me because I beat with all the white

kids cuz my dad is like a was a really

cool dude you know like he was like a

the the the the guy who always had like

the small little Sugar Shack where you

come over there and get your alcohol and

stuff like that and you know he he used

to hustle his his drugs stuff like that

people knew my pops my pops was a cool

dude so they they thought I was supposed

to be like that so being that I wasn't

like that they was like they would bully

me and um it just became one of those

things where it was like yo if you can't

beat them join them so it's like yo my

glasses fell off my face you know one

too many times and like that one time

where they fell and they just broke for

good that's when I broke for good and I

was just like you know what if I can't

beat him join them so I I just started

hanging with them and like in order to

hang with them I had to be I guess like

worse than them to prove myself in a lot

of ways so that's when like the

disruption really started in class

that's when the the class clown you know

really started to happen and that just

evolved into me getting left back a

couple of times you know I think I I

went to summer school twice in seventh

and eighth grade then I got left back in

ninth grade and that's when I actually

had to stay back and then by the time I

got to by the time I got to 10th grade

um I was getting kicked out of the

school I was in Berkeley High School and

they transferred me to to straford high

school where my mom taught cuz they

thought if I was my mom's school then I

would act better but most of my problems

from that point on started to be in the

street more so than you know in school

and so I ended up getting uh in a

situation where I was with you know some

of my homeboys and a shooting happened

and we all ended up going to jail and

they actually came and arrested me from

straford high school and that's the last

time I was in uh high school and you sat

in jail for 3 months no it was was like

40 I think 45 days something like that

yeah your dad could have bailed you out

my Dad could have bailed me out um but

he wanted to teach me a lesson like he

wanted me to learn from my mistakes so

he he let me sitting there for for 45

days and and sadly that wasn't it it was

a wakeup call but it wasn't the wake

wake up call it was more like I woke up

but then I hit the snooze button you

know slept for a little slept for a

little while longer before I finally got

up as a great man you can look back now

and think that 15 16 year old kid he

needed something that he wasn't getting

he needed a bunch of things he just

wasn't getting because you got kids now

yourself so you can if you saw that

behavior in your kid you wouldn't say oh

well I don't know I'm putting words in

your mouth here but you probably

wouldn't think okay they need to go to

jail and sit in jail for a while you'd

probably look at it and go there's

something unmet there man that's such an

interesting question because when I do

think back on it I say to myself I

didn't have to do none of that like

that's my mindset now like I didn't have

to do any of that like um my mother was

an English teacher she was a Jehovah's

Witness my grandmother was a Baptist

they absolutely taught me better like I

absolutely positively knew better I had

the example of my father you know if my

father had been probably more honest

with me about um his life and you know

the things he had went through and who

who who who he was then I probably would

have seen a lot of those obstacles

coming cuz I got to the point even when

I started selling drugs when I found out

he was also selling drugs you you can't

tell me not to do it you know like like

you can't be on some don't do as I do do

as I say type stuff I remember us having

that conversation and he was like well

this my house so you're not going to be

doing that in my house like cuz you you

making me hot right like like literally

and so I feel like you know for me I was

just a young

impressionable kid who wanted what every

single human being wants and that's just

simply security and if you don't get

security you know from people you will

you will find a way to get it so me you

know

becoming that that version of myself I

was then was that was just literally for

security that was for survival like I

was just literally a kid that was tired

of getting bullied but you know once you

get down on that path you know if nobody

stops you there will be things that stop

you like jail you know are sadly in some

cases deaf but then it's too late so I

just always thank God that you know even

though I I got caught up and I made

those mistakes I was able to you know

finally you know wake

up I've sat with Buster ryes and uh

Ashley welters and they talk a lot about

their fathers and they also talk about

the absence of male role models often

for for young black men and how the the

impact of that I've actually come up to

learn the impact of that by having these

conversations over and over with black

men that didn't have a a male role model

in their life that could stop them from

going down that path and I don't think

it's talked about

enough because I've learned about it

from Buster ryes and from Ashley Walters

from Top booy um and it's really made me

think that there's something we need to

think more of in society for especially

for people that are have sort of single

parents or have an absent father or an

emotionally absent father I think we

could save a lot of um Downstream

consequences with mental health crime

and all of those things if we thought

more about the importance of real male

role

oh yeah I mean listen I I had I had a a

a a male role model in my father but the

problem with my father was he wasn't

practicing what he was preaching so you

know you have to be about actions you

can't just be about words and lip

service people have to see you and and

and see that you're you know a a living

walking example of what it is that

you're telling others like you know I

didn't even believe that men could be

faithful to their women until I started

seeing it

from people that I actually knew like

you know it's it's it's it's one thing

for somebody to tell you they are but

like let's just say you know you're

you're you're out and about at a at a

television shoot and you know you're out

of town right and you and this person or

these people are hanging around after

the shoot and their wife is nowhere in

sight and they got every opportunity to

do the wrong thing but they like nah I'm

going back to my room you know what I'm

saying I love I'm got to get home to my

wife like or Nah then you where you

that's when you strike up conversations

like really like then like n I'm

faithful you know what I'm saying like

literally like those are the

conversation is like no I'm faithful I

don't I don't get down like that and you

like oh all right that's respectful you

know so it's just like actions speak way

louder than words man and and the thing

I love about the area that we're in now

you know this is the first generation

we're the first generation of of of

people that I feel like we have the

luxury of

healing our the people before us our

parents you know I'm 45 my my parents

they were just scratching and surviving

they were just trying to figure it out

they were just trying to trying to make

it they were trying to keep some food on

the table and a roof over their head we

are the first generation that has the

luxury of actually healing and I think

that's a beautiful thing

so

true there's a lot of Role Models

emerging now on the internet you know do

you think about like the Andrew Tates of

the world and all of those conversations

and at the same time what it is to be a

man has become quite unclear in many

respects like gender roles and there's a

lot of because of you know we're in the

the post Meo movement where a lot of

inappropriate behavior was called out

and it's funny a guy came up to me in

the gym Life Time Gym just down the road

from here in Brooklyn yesterday came up

to me 25-year-old kid wearing a

Barcelona shirt tapped me on the

shoulder said I love you podcast I

listen to a lot one question he goes I'm

25 years old he goes where do I find

male role models and I remember I was

with Will in the gym and I just remember

thinking it's so interesting because I'm

getting that conversation over and over

and over again I think what he's

actually saying is like what is a man in

20204 and um who do I model myself on

because there is a lot of you know if

you go on like Twitter there's a crowd

of people that are saying

Lamborghini um 17 women

Rolex loads of money and I'm not

necessarily sure that's a great example

either and and then you look at the

stats around Su suicidality amongst men

in the UK where I'm from the single

biggest thing that's has the chance of

killing you is suicide if you're over

the age of 18 and under the age of 45 as

a man it's yourself and I just think

about put all this in context this sort

of like looking for Role Models

masculinity is really unclear we've

called out men do we need to call them

back in what matters if you got a young

son I got all girls I got four daughters

four girls D yeah me and my wife got

four daughters I guess it just depends

what you're trying to model like we use

that term role model but what does the

term role model mean because you know

you can only model yourself after what

somebody shows

you you can only model you know yourself

off what somebody presents so if you

like that person's Lamborghini if you

like that Rolex if you like the clothes

that they got on if you like their

jewelry then you're going to say to

yourself okay that's what I want so

that's what you're modeling you're not

necessarily modeling the man you're ma

you're modeling the man's things yeah

you know you might as well be a

mannequin you might as well be you might

as well be looking up the mannequins you

know it's hard to like really you know

model yourself after somebody's you know

personality after somebody's morals

after somebody's values after somebody's

beliefs cuz you don't necessarily know

exact what they are and especially on

social media you just know what people

present so you got to be very careful of

that like I would tell people man you

know yeah if you admire something about

a person cool you know let that be like

a a a guide for you so to speak it it

gives you a it's like a flare going up

in the air so you kind of know which

direction you may want to go but you

don't know that

individual the only per individual that

you will ever truly know is you what

kind of man do you want to be are you

trying to be with the therapy with the

work you've done with your books Etc

what are you what kind of man are you

trying to be a good man and what does

that mean um just somebody who is who

they say they are like that's what I

always tell people and that's what I

constantly tell myself I want to be who

I say I am I want to be who you know if

if you see me um saying something if you

see that that I'm telling you that this

is what I believe in if I'm telling you

this is my truth I want you to know that

that's exactly who I am like you're not

going to you know hear something in the

future and be like oh my God this dude

had a whole other life going on and you

know he had this going on over here and

that going on over here and nobody ever

knew about it no I'm a I'm a faithful

husband you know I am a a learning

father and the reason I say learning is

because you there's no class on being a

parent none whatsoever anybody tells you

that that they got that figured out they

are lying I got a 15 yearold a

8-year-old a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old

and every single one of them you know

challenged me and my wife in completely

different ways and there's been plenty

of times when me and my wife sit around

you know late at night or at dinner

somewhere or just sitting around talking

in the bed asking ourselves if we

getting it right so like there's no you

know blueprint or no manual on to be

that but I just want to be um I want to

be the adult that I feel like I needed

when I was a child you know I want to be

present um I want to be I want I want to

raise them out of love which is very

hard especially being that I deal with

you know really bad anxiety in a lot of

ways and I talk about parental paranoia

a lot and you know you just have to man

you have to let go and let God like I'm

a faithful person because I have no

choice but to to be you know I'm a

optimistic person because I have no

choice but to be like you know the the

opposite of you know fateful is worry

the opposite of faithful is doubt and

like you can't raise kids in that way

because they got they got to live their

own life my 15-year-old she wants to go

hang out I can't worry about what may

happen you know at the mall and you know

you you open up a newspaper and you see

all types of crazy stuff happening in

the world and you see crazy things

happening to other people's kids and you

know you just it's like y I don't want

my my child to ever get caught up in

anything like that but man sadly that's

just not your call and you just can't

live life like that man you can't live

life um with fear you got to live life

with faith with all this work you've

done on your mental health to understand

the anxiety and um the bouts of

depression and so on have you been able

to pinpoint the causal factors of it in

your early years oh yeah I mean my being

being molested at 8 yeah was definitely

definitely part of it um

um definitely the the the bullying you

know early on uh

definitely

wanting uh wanting my father to raise me

out of love and not fear um one of the

main things that I I realized when I had

like one of my first breakthroughs in

therapy was when I realized my dad used

to discipline me for things he never

taught

me all right so I remember one one one

example I always tell is like I just got

my driver's license and so he told me to

follow him somewhere and he was like

follow me do what I do like all right

driving he's driving and we're coming

off uh gilard Road in Mons Corner South

Carolina about to get on the highway

highway is Highway 52 so we're driving

and we get

to the stop sign but he doesn't stop he

just drives onto the highway so I drove

onto the highway you know

and he pulls over to the side of the

road I pull over to the side of the road

what I didn't notice was you know you're

coming down the highway you're driving

he he drove like maybe a not I want to

say a split second but like several

seconds before a car was coming and so I

came right behind him so the car had to

Swerve out of the way I didn't even

notice that so he tells me to pull over

he pulls over so I pull over he gets out

the car he comes to the window slaps the

[ __ ] out me right I'm like he's like

wake up that's all he said

I'm just sitting there like I mean I

think about that now but there's no

teaching in that where was the teaching

in that I ain't even realize what I did

wrong you told me to do everything that

you did you literally said do what I do

you ran the stop sign so I ran the stop

sign and then once you slap the [ __ ] out

me you don't even tell me what I did

wrong so that's why I said my father

used to discipline me for things that he

never even taught me so I think um um

that's where a lot of the insecurity and

anxiety and you know impostor syndrome

that's where a lot of that comes from

you know and the the bouts of depression

I don't that's probably just some a

chemical a chemical imbalance or

something cuz like that's just I

constantly have to pump myself up and I

do that through prayer I do that through

you know daily affirmations you know I

do that through like um just constantly

telling myself I belong you know and

that's something I remember being young

my affirmation used to be I love Jehovah

God and his son Jesus Christ and I would

say that three times then I would say

[ __ ] Satan and I would say that three

times and that is what used to get me

like okay I'm ready I'm ready for the

day I'm ready for whatever you know the

the day is going to deliver me so yeah

it's just all of those things from my

childhood contributed to those

issues at some point it appears that you

reached a sort of personal Rock Bottom

in those sort of early

20s and you made a decision to

that enough was enough and I find that

so interesting because I sit here with

so many people who reach that moment

where they they look at their lives and

they go listen look look at what I'm

doing with myself and some of them carry

on going and they're probably not around

to sit in the chair and then some of

them Hit That Rock Bottom moment and

they go I can't carry on doing this with

my life and they make a decision to take

at least one footstep in some positive

direction and that starts to compound

for them is that accurate is that an

accurate description of what happened

cuz I cuz I cuz I learned early that

everything my father was saying was true

so my father was telling me if you don't

change your lifestyle you going to end

up in jail dead or broke under the tree

I actually saw that starting to happen

to not just myself but people around me

so you know I had my stin in jail but

then I had people around me that was

going to jail for like five years like

they were going to jail for actual

prison sentences and you know I had

people around me that were dying that

were actually you know getting killed

and I saw like you know people that I

used to once look up to who were older

than me sitting under the tree literally

doing nothing with their lives like

becoming that next generation of you

know people who just sit under the tree

all day and drink or do drugs or

whatever it is so I saw that happening

and I was just one of those kids that

was smart enough to realize man whatever

I'm doing today will directly impact

what happens in my life tomorrow and

that's all that's been my mindset since

I was you know early 20 years old like

whatever I want to be doing 5 years from

now I got to start doing now literally

that's always been my mindset and so you

know when I finally um got that break to

find the internship in

radio like just being in that

environment being around that in 1998 as

an intern

literally made me say okay this is what

I want to do with my future before that

I didn't know what I wanted to do I was

going speaking of male role models like

I had you know Uncle Uncle Henry he

worked at UPS I'm like all right maybe

UPS is the move I had a uh one of my

mother's cousins named Bruce he was in

the military okay maybe being in the

military is is the move for me like I

was just trying to figure out you know

what I was going to do with my adult

life and you know I started working a

bunch of odd jobs I did I did

telemarketing I worked at a clothing

store called demo in the mall I worked

at a warehouse called industrial

Acoustics I worked at a flower garden I

worked at Taco Bell for a couple couple

of weeks cuz my sister was the manager

there I was just trying to figure things

out and at one point in my life I worked

at demo in the mall with my now wife I

worked at the telemarketing place and I

had stumbled upon an internship probably

like a year prior which was at the radio

station in 1998 and then around 1999 I

actually started being on the air and

once I started being on the air it just

started to let me see what the future

could potentially look like up until

that point did you have high hopes for

yourself in your future um

um because because because I thought I

was going to be a rapper cuz you know

most most young black men you know from

the hood you know in the late 90s or

from the the rural rural area that I was

from in mon Corner South Carolina you

know when you look on television or you

open up these magazines the people that

you see that are successful are usually

in rap hip-hop in some way shape or form

are Athletics and so I thought rapping

was going to be the way to get up off

that dir Road mon Corner South Carolina

that's why you know I got I got a tattoo

on my arm I got Wolverine from the X-Men

tattooed on my arm holding a microphone

in his hand I got this tattoo when I was

like I don't even know like 18 19

something like that and and I got it

made by a dude named T Willis T Willis

was a tattoo artist in South Carolina

tattoos weren't even illegal in this

time but I I got I got I got it I got it

tatted on my arm in his apartment and

the reason I got Wolverine holding the

microphone cuz always loved Wolverine

because I loved his healing powers I Lov

that he was able to heal quickly from

things this is this is me at 18 19 years

old not knowing anything about no

therapy not knowing anything about you

know the future journey I would go on of

healing this is just me back then being

a young comic book lover loving the fact

that Wolverine had these healing powers

and I had them holding the microphone

cuz I thought the microphone was going

to be you know what changed my life

which It ultimately did I just thought

it was going to be through through rap

music the microphone ultimately changed

your life I also didn't know that you'd

spent this really long stint on the

radio from sort of 20 years old doing

that internship right up until The

Breakfast Club when you're 32 years old

so that's 12 years but it's not just 12

years of work and graft and mastering

your skill it's also 12 years of

rejection getting fired over and over

and over and over again I got fired four

times I got fired from four different

radio stations I got fired from hot 9 89

in Charleston I used to do radio I

started my career at Z93 which I'm back

on now which is the actual Heritage

station so The Breakfast Club is

broadcast on Z93 so I'm back on Z93 but

um I left Z93 which was the big Heritage

station in Charleston to go work for an

up incoming station called high 989

simply because you know my man George

cook who's still a great mentor of mine

to this day he offered me a full-time

radio gig I was on Monday through FR

Monday through Saturday 7 to midnight I

had to take that making what I don't

know $199,000 a year or something like

that but that felt so good back then

because I was able to show my mom a

contract and say look I'm making a

salary I'm making

$199,000 a year right like that just

felt good to say that I had a job that I

had to be to you know uh every day and

and not just a job a job that um that

she knew about because she would hear me

on the radio what did your father think

oh he loved it like that was I mean even

when when I was on Z93 that was a big

deal cuz z9 was the was the Heritage

station like that was dation in

Charleston so that was a big deal for

him was he

surprised um having shared a jail cell

with you at one

point seeing your delinquency through

that period of your life was he

surprised man you know what's

interesting I've never had those

conversations with him even to this day

like I've never had like that

conversation with him

like n like you know he he might tell me

he's proud of me stuff like that but

we've never had like an indepth

conversation like my mom like me and my

mom have had like those in-depth

conversations like my mom has told me

things like you know you've accomplished

more than you know anybody in the family

ever thought about accomplishment

accomplishing or she'll show me like um

the the taxes my my

great-grandfather her father yeah her

father was it her father yeah her father

her father my grandfather she would show

me like the taxes that he would have to

pay on their land so like just to put

things in perspective you know for me

and um yeah like she's like I share

things with her like I share with her

how much I'm making or how much I made

doing something I I share things like

that with her and

um yeah she she she's she's very always

supportive and you know lets me know

like she's proud of me I remember she

she gave me the best advice a long time

ago she told me just be happy you making

a

living up survival generation but but

but she the way she said it was

basically basically saying you know this

is how you stay humble she was like just

be happy that you're able to make a

living and she's right cuz you know how

hard it is for some people to make a

living like like seriously it's just

it's hard for some people just to be

able to afford some some wings from the

grocery store like it's hard for people

can't afford daycare like things like

like just little small simple everyday

things that you know you and I may be

able to just take care of there's a lot

of people out here who can't so you

should very you should very much be

happy just to be making a a living so

her telling me that you know puts a lot

of things in perspective for me and then

that's kept a lot of things in

perspective for me but nah me and my

pops have never really we've never

really had those

conversations 32 years old you you

joined the Breakfast Club which is the

first time that I I saw you um heard

about you with was entertained by you

but before you joined the bref Breakfast

Club something else became really sort

of front of mine in your life which is

anxiety and panic attacks and you talk

about the the first sort of panic attack

you had while you were driving down into

say 26 in South car Carolina I had 26

that that was probably the first really

really really major one um the first one

I ever had was definitely in first grade

I would never forget that M Elementary

School I I don't I can't forget that to

this day like my mom dropped me off

first day of school

and I just could not calm down I mean

balling tears screaming like like I

could not stopped you know and and now

when I think back on it I'm like oh that

was I was straight up having a panic

attack I remember to look at my mom's

face like what is wrong with like what's

going on um but the one I had then that

was after being fired for the fourth

time from Radio I was back home living

with my

mom like you said I think I was 31 32 I

don't remember how old I was 3132 my

daughter was like one or two my now wife

was back living at home with her parents

in Mons Corner South Carolina and I

remember I was driving down i26 uh going

to Orangeburg to go see uh little Duval

at a comedy show he was at a comedy show

in um Orangeburg I forgot what school it

was and um yeah I just remember feeling

that feeling that I've always felt my

whole life heartbeating crazy fast mouth

getting dry Palm sweaty feeling

lightheaded dizzy had to pull over get

some water take a few deep breaths and

just told myself like look man I'm I'm

I'm going go to the doctor yet again cuz

I you know I always would check myself

in the emergency room whenever I would

have those kind of panic attacks CU I

always felt like I was having a heart

attack and so I went to the doctor and

the doctor was like nah you got to your

heart is fine you got a athletes heart

and then he was like um he said to me he

said yo you you deal with anxiety I like

anxiety what do you mean do I deal with

anxiety and he was

like um do the symptoms you're

describing sound like a panic attack he

said have you had these before and I'm

like yeah

and he was like are you stressed out

about anything and I'm like hell yeah

like you know and so he was like yeah it

sounds like you know that that's anxiety

you know and then he was telling me some

breathing exercises I could do to

possibly deal with it and then in my

mind after he said are you stressed out

about anything the first thing I thought

to myself was all I got to do is get

another job and everything will be a

okay I just got to get out my mom house

get my family back in position and

everything will be okay next gig I got

was The Breakfast Club and so you think

you fast forward three four years I'm

having more success than I've ever had

in my life I'm making more money than

I've ever made in my life everything is

going great but nothing's changed I'm

still having the panic attacks probably

even more so now I'm still dealing with

bout of depression and I can't figure

out why I just was not happy and so

that's what finally made me decide to

start you know going to therapy we

started Breakfast Club in 2010 I think I

started going to therapy around

2015 2015

2016 how bad did your your depression

get in those Z years there Z

30s oh no they got bad I mean they it

got it got it n it definitely got bad it

got bad to the point where like I was

the guy who you know you I I love to

laugh definitely love to laugh love to

joke love to have a good time but then

like yeah those Suicidal Thoughts just

cross your mind for no reason like

literally for absolutely no reason like

you know you you would it would it would

now's a good time to end it all like

just literally randomly and you like

what was that you know and even even now

sometimes it it it'll cross your mind

and it definitely it crosses your mind a

lot when you have like I had a a friend

who committed suicide you know um her

name was jazz jazz waters you know and

call her Jazz fly and me and her used to

lean on each other a lot like she

committed suicide during um Co and her

and I used to lean on each other a lot

like I used to call her like my my my

wartime General like you know when it

was like really time to you know get

busy and you know really strategize some

stuff that's who I would pick up the

phone and call and we would always have

these conversations about you know

therapy and you know depression and

anxiety and all of that from I mean deep

conversations I'm talking about we'

spend Sundays literally i' be in the

backyard sometimes three 4 Hour phone

conversations right like away from

everybody my my wife kids everyone just

really having conversation so you know

when she did it I remember um sitting in

my

backyard and and I heard her voice in my

head and it was like she she literally

said to me you still

here like on like you still like you

still there on Earth and I was I got

that that like kind of just shook me to

my core a little bit right and so it's

just like I constantly do not constantly

constantly is is a strong word but yeah

those those thoughts just cross your

mind I don't know if it's because it's

not cuz I actually want to do it or

because I'm thinking about doing it but

because I've had people close to me do

it and because I had those thoughts when

I was younger sometimes I don't know if

it's

to Sur survivors guilt maybe or

survivors remorse of it all that just

makes

you think about it like what what am I

still doing here you

know but then I got a million reasons to

still be here so that immediately makes

it makes it go away when when you have a

friend like that that passes in such

circumstances it's it a complex range of

feelings and he like I sat here with

someone who described that exact same

thing to me their best friend who had

said nothing to them was um always that

it was actually works on radio in the UK

um both of them worked on radio then his

radio partner one day died by Suicide

never said anything to anybody appeared

to be fine in the complex set of

emotions that he's left with the regret

the feelings of what if what if ID said

something did I reach out all of those

kinds of things is there anything that I

could have done all of those

feelings what is that complex set of

emotions that

you man

yeah you can't do that to yourself you

you

will but you can't do that to yourself

because like I was saying earlier when I

talked about you know modeling when you

say the word role model and you're

modeling yourself after people you don't

know what's behind all of those layers

of a human like we're complex creatures

like to me she

was one of the most intelligent

brilliant creative strategic human

beings I ever met in my life and she was

somebody that you know so many of us

went to and I never felt I didn't I

didn't I didn't you know guilt myself

with that because I know that she would

come to me with stuff too and I would

always be an ear for her like I was

always there for her

um but yeah y yo you it is it's just to

act like that to narrow it down the one

emotion is crazy like you know you'll go

through sadness you'll go through anger

you'll go through happiness you'll go

through frustration you'll go through um

thinking about those last moments that

that person was here and you'll be

saying to yourself I I I tried like like

like I tried that's all that's that's

that's that's what I know that's what I

do know I know for a fact I tried like

it's it's not like we didn't you know

you didn't see things you know so it's

not like we didn't try to get that

person all the help and more that that

that they needed but yeah it is it is it

is a very very complex set of

emotions something that you can't even

really put in words and not even not

something I'm trying to suppress either

like you know it is one of those things

you want to you you you want to

constantly confront but it's it's a it's

just very complex

cuz you wish that you could have had you

what you really wanted you wish you

could have talked to that person that

day you wish you could have had a

conversation with that person that

day that's what you really wish you know

and see where they see where they were

at in that

moment and and you and and hopefully if

you because you all every I think

everybody would probably do that

everybody probably says the same thing I

probably say the same thing her mom

probably says the same thing her father

probably says the same thing her sister

probably says the same thing if I would

have spoke to her that day you know I

probably could

have got her in a better place but

that's not the way that's not the way

the universe had it had it designed your

external Life Changes rapidly when um

your external your world your everything

around you changes when you become as a

star in The Breakfast Club but

internally you say nothing really

changes if not if anything it was

potentially worse the panic attacks

anxiety the bouts of depression a lot of

people will be surprised by that because

as a big as you say people think that

you get the job you get the money you

get the

fame I was losing myself because you got

to think I'm still in survival mode I'm

still coming off being fired four times

you got to think what my journey was

from 1998 up until that moment up until

that moment I'm just coming out of my

mom's house living with my mom in Monks

Corner South Carolina like I'm literally

I'm I just collected my last

unemployment check right you can't chill

nah I'm scared to death everything that

you saw was

me was was rooted in fear it was rooted

in I'm not going back to that so

whatever I have to do to not go back to

that I'm going to do that's why you see

the ruthless anybody can get it you know

it's it's still a lot of pain there that

I'm probably projecting on the other

people it's still a lot of hurt there

that I'm projecting on the other people

plus y'all done tried to fire me out of

this business four different times y'all

thought it was sweet when I was down in

Monks Corner South Carolina living back

home with my mom now all of y'all got to

feel my wrath like literally that's what

I was on and you know when you getting

when you're getting rewarded for that

that

fuels whatever that is Until you realize

like for me it was around 20 2015 you

like this this ain't this not what I

want how did you know that how did you

know just wasn't happy and I like at

this time I got two kids like my my

oldest is like seven at the time in 2015

and my newborn had just been been born

and like I got married in

2014 so it's like yo am I really about

to become my

pops you know am I really about to

become you know this I you know I love

this man I despise the way he you know

ended up you know treating his family us

treating my mom and I'm like yo am I

really going to be that am I really

goingon to get caught up in this radio

you know Radio Star and I'm putting star

in air quotes lifestyle you know am I

really GNA get caught up in the women am

I really going to get caught up in the

drugs am I really going to get caught up

in the alcohol am I really going to

become a character of myself this

character that I created you know to

protect you know this vulnerable young

man named lonard am I really going to

get caught up in that and and completely

lose myself am I going to do that or am

I going to you know get back on the path

that I know I'm supposed to be on am I

going to get back on that that that that

that that righteous path am I going to

do that so I chose to go the righteous

path sounds simple sounds like it was a

one an epiphany one day but I and that's

a man speaking in hindsight there and I

just want because there be a lot of

people that are in that moment where

they're looking at their life going is

this really who I'm going to be yeah

yeah you're right it's not simple

because you you you'll constantly lie to

yourself and I think that's why so many

people uh from the street always end up

in the same situation like there's

nowhere you going to go in any ghetto

America USA any rural Town USA where a

older person isn't going to tell a

younger person you keep living like that

you going to end up in jail or dead my

dad added the other one or broke sitting

broke sitting under the tree but

everybody thinks they can beat it

everybody thinks they can live a certain

lifestyle and if they just do this you

know then that won't happen or that

person was stupid that's why they ended

up like that nah you live a certain

lifestyle you move in a certain way all

of y'all going to meet the same fate and

it's no different you know um even in

even in that space like I was I was

absolutely about to crash I knew it how

just I just I just saw it coming like a

crash to me is losing your family you

know your leave in you like I don't want

that like who wants that I don't envy

those type I don't envy people like that

I don't envy people who and I'm not

knocking them in no way shape for but I

don't envy people who you know lost lost

their families because of infidelity and

now they got to visit their kids on the

weekend you know you you are unfaithful

to your wife oh yeah absolutely and

she's the love of your life I mean

there's very few people my soulmate 100%

you've been with her 30 plus years or

something6 26 this year absolutely

absolutely 26 years we were kids you

know and we we literally grew up

together in every sense of the word like

literally the first time I ever filed

out an application at a radio station

she drove me because my license was

suspended like we were together since

kids like literally like I I was at her

high school graduation I was at her

college graduation you know I mean like

she like I said she the first time I

ever filed that application at the radio

station she drove me like she went to

college in Columbia South Carolina I got

a radio job in Columbia South Carolina I

ended up getting a radio job in New York

she ends up getting a job in New York

City like our lives were just like that

all the time we couldn't escape each

other if we tried and to be honest with

you I would never want to because like

that has been the one constant in my

life that has been my muse forever that

has been the person who's constantly

made me want to be the best version of

myself even when I wasn't the best

version of myself you know because when

you ask God for certain things he's

going to give them to he or she is going

to give them to you so when you tell God

like this is what I want I want to be

with this person for the rest of my life

or I'm looking for a soulmate or I'm

looking for you know my My Hope Brady or

I'm looking for my you know CLA hustable

like he's going to give you that but are

you going to be prepared for it when you

get it same thing with any type of

success you

yeah God he or she may give you that but

are you prepared for it I think a lot of

us are you know a lot of us get things

that we're we're we're really not

prepared for and when we get those

things we're not prepared for we don't

hold on to them you nearly lost it I

feel like I did absolutely I feel like I

did it would it wouldn't have been worth

it even if I would have continued to

have success professionally in radio but

Meanwhile my personal life you know I

lose my wife I lose my family that's

that's not worth it that's there's no

way there's nowhere on this Earth where

that's a fair trade for me you start

going to therapy you go twice a week no

I always started off going once a week

oh really yeah when did you start going

to therapy 2016 either late either late

2015 or early 2016 why therapy who was

who told you that that was a good idea a

lot of people lot of black black men a

lot of black Americans period don't seek

Mental Health Care there's a huge

disparity it's almost 100% difference

between um white people and black people

seeking mental health MH a lot of people

I mean you know I'm a big fan of the the

TV show girlfriends grew up watching

girlfriends that's one one of my wife's

favorite shows so when I would go to her

her house when she was in college she

would have that on and we'd be watching

girlfriends and like if you watch

girlfriends a lot of them were going to

therapy that's the first time I even

heard of it right but then as I got

older talking to different people and

they were all you know ing from from men

women like I remember having

conversations with you know Neil Brennan

who's a comedian and he was in an

interview talking about the benefits of

therapy my my my Young Homie Pete

Davidson you know he was talking about

it you know my my home girl Debbie Brown

like she was really into it like not

just therapy but just all different

facets of healing like if you know

Debbie Brown now like you youd

understand why she was on that back then

like she's one of the leaders and the

mindfulness you know mental health space

right now I have some very exciting news

to share with all of you as of yesterday

you can find a 247 the Diary of a CEO

with Steven bartler Channel exclusively

on Samsung TV Plus in the UK and in the

Netherlands the channel will also be

launching shortly in Germany Switzerland

and Austria Samsung TV plus is Samsung's

own streaming service which is

pre-installed on all Samsung Smart TVs

and Galaxy mobile and tablets and it's

completely free so if you have a Samsung

TV go and watch the dire of a CEO on

your TV and please do me a favor take a

photo and tag me in it thank you what's

helped you to heal what's if you look at

the like tool kit you've used my

girlfriend's alternative healing breath

work practitioner super spiritual she's

helped me a lot with all of my child all

of that stuff all of it brother I didn't

I therapy meditation breathing exercises

I done did raiki uh you know I got I got

Crystals at home you know I do

plant-based medicine I I like all of it

are you ask set of s I've I've I've I've

I've done I've done an iwka Journey

that's that's when I that's what I was

talking about earlier when I said I went

on a a spiritual Retreat ah really yeah

early this year and that was South

America was it or somewhere else N N I

did it I did it I did it here in the

states it was it was a beautiful

beautiful ceremony um and it was man it

was very very very lifechanging like

that's where I got the the Revelation

the Revelation was you know stop lying

to yourself

and stop volunteering those lies to

other people it's like yo whatever um

wherever you're at in your life like for

me it's just like I want to show up and

be my authentic self at all times like

me that's what I want to do all the time

I don't matter where I'm at in my life I

want to present that

and being on that Journey it literally

ripped away every single ounce of

falsehood that existed it like it just

shattered it like B that gotta go like I

watched it in my mind like go up in

Flames like like literally what's the

cost if we live with those falsehoods

and those

lies

depression you know probably constant

anxiety you know a whole lot of

insecurities a whole lot of impostor

syndrome because you know I'm from the

country so I believe in simple sayings

like God can't bless who you pretend to

be

you know and I think that constantly we

got to we got to constantly check

ourselves and make sure we're always

showing up is who we are and we're not

pretending to be you know some version

of ourselves that's why that's why you

read get honest or die line I talk so

much about social media in the book

because I'm watching so many people lose

themselves to social media like I'm

talking about

intelligent well-educated well read

academics are are literally losing their

s to social media you can have

conversations with them and you realize

like all of their talking points are

coming from social media like their

their thought process is being dictated

by social media these people care more

about their relationships online than

they do their actual relationships

offline like I know people who are

personalities who have like you know uh

podcast or who may have YouTube shows

you know and these people will literally

be on Twitter all day be on redit all

day listen to what listening to what

people are saying about them reading

what people are saying about them and

crafting their thoughts just to talk to

them in that crowd to just please them

I'm like my God how narrow-minded is

that that's why for me man if you're if

if you claim to be an an academic or you

claim to be a well educated person you

came you claim to be a

uh an intelligent book smart person I

don't think you're that smart if your

emotional IQ is that low if your if your

emotional IQ is so low that people on

social media can dictate how you move

how you think how you talk you're not a

smart person to me smart people know how

to disconnect from that and smart people

know how to go you know do some

meditation to make sure that their

thoughts are absolutely positively their

own like I got people right now today

hitting my phone

trying to tell me how they feel about

the new Kendrick Lamar record and I love

Kendrick Lamar I think he's fantastic I

think Mr morale and the big steppers in

the future is going to be known as one

of the most hip-hop one of the most

important hip-hop albums of all time

that one in Jay-Z's 444 but people are

hitting me telling me their thoughts and

telling me their opinions and I'm

blocking all of that because I listen to

the record I listen to it five or six

times same I know what I got from it I

know what I feel about it and I'm not

letting y'all change my mind okay but

they're doing that because they know

that tomorrow when I'm on the air I'm

going to be talking about it so they're

trying to curate my thoughts and they're

trying to push my thoughts in a certain

direction I don't want that and I'm not

even I'm just using that Reg as an

example because it's the freshest thing

on my mind but I don't I'm like that

with anything I need my own Clarity I

need to I need to into my own

discernment what is my spirit telling me

about this situation or this moment or

this thing that's all I care about I

don't care about any of that noise that

exist uh on social

media that's that's giv you a real big

competitive advantage in many respects

because originality is so that's right

valuable that's right you're 100%

correct that's why I laugh at a lot of

these individuals because what also

happens is you know they start

whispering about me right and they start

wondering well why why is this happening

for him and why does he get to do this

and why why is that like why is that

going on like they looking you know cuz

I keep growing and they wonder why they

wonder why I keep growing and they don't

I tried to tell you

disconnect how you how how are you going

to grow when you're not even watering

your own garden because if if if you're

if if you're getting on social media and

you're reading what they're saying about

you and you're catering all your

thoughts and all your talking points to

appease those people you're not watering

your garden you're you're you're

literally trying to water somebody

else's so as you're you're as you're

watering somebody else's that continues

to grow and that continues to get louder

and louder and louder but meanwhile you

just stagnant it's scary though it's

scary to ignore and then to show up as

yourself in a world where we're

rewarding Conformity with the likes the

claps the okay you won't be cancelled

because you you fit in it's when you say

oh I'm going to disconnect I'm going to

be myself I'm going to be authentic I go

Jesus Christ that is man I get I get

attacked all the time for thoughts for

opinions because I don't go along with

with with with the mob and I'm not even

I'm not a contrarian in any way shape or

form I just know that nothing is black

nothing is white right there's always

those areas of gray in the middle

there's Nuance to everything like like

you can be objective about everything

right like there there there has to be a

certain level of well let me see what

this person is coming from you got to

hear both sides to me that's just common

sense and I feel like the only way to

get the real truth about anything is if

you see where both sides are coming from

I can't just dismiss you as wrong

because you have a different opinion

than mine or you feel differently than

mine I got to hear where you're coming

from first there's no political party

called nuance and we we're we're we're

in an election year I know this as well

I think if I if I wanted to go viral I

just got to do a hot take for either

side because there's algorithms for that

there's a group of people that are going

to pick that up and retweet it and send

it but the people in the middle it's

there's no and we're going into this

election year now where there's I've

heard you say there's really no great

choices yeah but on that point you just

said about being able to see the other

side

what you think about

Trump I think that uh I mean I say this

everywhere I go I think Donald Trump is

a threat to democracy you know I don't

think that you should have

anybody uh especially in the United

States you can't have a leader of a

country who says said said he we should

suspend the Constitution to overthrow

the results of an election I mean he he

led an attempted coup of this country

like we watched it we saw it you know

um yeah I just don't think a person like

that should be president of the United

States of America I think that if you're

facing you know the type of criminal

charges that he's facing what is it 80

86 counts or something like that now 86

counts 88 counts I can't remember the

exact number but if I was facing 88

counts of any criminal charge I wouldn't

be able to work at Walmart nonetheless

you know run to be president of the

United States of America so I just don't

think that he's you know he's he's he's

not somebody that should should be in

that position but I understand why he is

in that position because he's he's he's

good at messaging what do you think

about the people that follow

Trump do do you think they're good

people some of them that even that even

that is a very broad question right like

when you say what do you think about the

people that follow Trump those people

aren't monolithic yeah yeah all of those

all of those people those 70 plus

million people who voted for Trump a lot

of them voted for Donald Trump for a for

a lot of different reason

I have actual friends who will remain

nameless who I know voted for Donald

Trump and I know they're great people

and they didn't vote they not they're

black they're also black too and they're

not like the they're not black

conservatives they're not in any way

shape or form they are black like Pro

black individuals and like that's what I

mean when I say having conversations

with people because you get to see why

people do you know different things I

know

why that person told me they voted for

Donald Trump back in you know 2016 just

like I know individuals now who tell me

why they they they voted for him in 2016

or or or 2020 and you can't

just chalk everybody up to being a

racist you know you can't just chalk

everybody up to you know not caring uh

about lgbtq issues or whatever it is

people have different reasons and

interests why they vote for people it

might be one thing it might be one

interest that they vote for that's what

they always tell you right they tell you

to vote your interest so it's the same

thing with a with a President Biden I

can look at a million things that

President Biden has done that I do not

like the 80 86 mandatory minimum

sentencing the 88 crack laws the 94

crime Bill all of that I there's a

million things I can point to and say I

don't like that he he he did this but if

the if if the one interest is to at

least protect democracy in 2000 in in in

24 or if you're somebody who got their

student loan debt wiped away you that

might be it if you're somebody who can

afford instantly now because of

President B that might be the reason you

vote for him so it's just like everybody

has different reasons as to why they

vote for different candidates that's why

you I don't even think the question is

fair when you say what do you think

about the people who voted for such and

such like I'm not the I'm not the person

I vote

for when we get to speak to those people

we understand their motives until then

we kind of misunderstand them and I

think right I see that Crossover with

you and your father because eventually

you had a conversation with him you

talked about that conversation at the

very beginning of this one where you

finally had empathy for him and his

experience and his life that

conversation with your father where you

rebuilt your relationship and finally

understood him did that help your

healing Journey absolutely 100% because

like I said I never quite had the

relationship uh with my father that I I

wanted to and it's I mean it's not too

late he's still here right um

but yeah it did because I realized in

that moment that he was just a man who

was just doing his best and he didn't

have the tools that I have he didn't

have the resources that I have even

though he was going to therapy two and

three times a week even though he was on

the 10 to he was on 10 to 12 different

medications the state of South Carina

just started giving him a check we used

to call that a crazy check back in the

day you just get a check for being crazy

like I knew people who used to play

Crazy to get a check I remember when I

went to my mom and said yo did you know

dad was going through all of this and

she was like yeah I just thought he was

playing crazy to get a check so it's

like all of those you know if if if I

would have known when I was young if he

would have told me all of those things

when I was young then I probably would

have ended up on a totally different

path much earlier I guess that's another

example of like you know Role Models

right because I think another time A lot

of times when we say role models we

think it has to be just about all the

good a person is doing but if a person

has dealt with a lot of the things that

you're going through because a lot of

this stuff is genetic right like if a

person is dealing with their own anxiety

if a person is dealing with their own

you know bout to depression my father he

was already in therapy he was already on

10 to 12 different medications he tried

to commit suicide if he would have told

me all of that when I was young I would

have known what I was dealing with I

would have been able to be like oh okay

I'm I'm dealing with that it's the same

way you can see it in your kids you can

when when your kids are dealing with

those things you can look at them and be

like okay I know I know what that is

because you know I went through that to

me that's being that's good even though

my dad was dealing with all those issues

but him if he was just telling me when I

was young if he would have just told me

when I was young this is what he was

dealing with then that would have been a