those are all the pills you take in one

day 111 because that's where the data

led me this is how you don't die Brian

Johnson the man who spends two million

dollars a year to slow down as age he's

managed to reverse his biological age

already to an 18 year old projected to

live to 200.

the only objective we have is don't die

I've opted into an algorithm that takes

better care of me than I can myself it

sounds overwhelming in the beginning but

trust me on this so my bedtime is at 8

30. and you had a hundred percent sleep

four months straight now what about

hanky-panky not after 8 30. alcohol

three ounces every morning with

breakfast for breakfast for breakfast my

last meal of the day is at 11AM and

every calorie has to fight for its life

you are very kind in bringing me some

food presumably this is what you eat

that's right if you ask the body what do

you want to eat to be an ideal Health

this is the answer for the legit rude

that is a mushroom covered in chocolate

how fun

why is Brian doing this I was thinking

about what your father went through and

I was wondering if there's some kind of

Link there it was always on my mind I

mean he's in pain and he's stuck and he

can't overcome this terrible thing

that's ruining his life

foreign

I am

you're very very clearly Mission driven

the ultimate question becomes are you

happy

um

before this episode starts I have a

small favor to ask from you two months

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enjoy this episode

[Music]

Prime

[Music]

what mission are you on and why does

that mission matter to you but also to

everybody else listening to this right

now

my mission

is for the human race to survive

and Thrive and it's figuring out what we

do

that creates the highest probability of

that being possible

and why specifically have you taken on

that mission versus any other Mission

you could have committed your life and

time to why you

hmm

and I want the long answer to this yeah

because all the context going right back

to the beginning I had this

transformative experience when I was 19

years old I went to Ecuador and I was a

missionary and I lived among extreme

poverty dirt floors mud huts

people not knowing how they're going to

make ends meet day-to-day and I came

back to the United States and my family

was poor growing up but it was opulent

compared to Ecuador I couldn't believe

that I had lived in a bubble my entire

life unaware of circumstances of other

realities like where I was at in Ecuador

and I was facing decisions in college

what to study what to become who I was

going to be you start creating these

identities

all I could identify was this fire that

had lit within me that I wanted to spend

my life trying to improving the human

race at a global scale I don't know

where it came from but it just coming

back from Ecuador it seemed like that

was what I want to spend my life on I

didn't know what to do I was 21 years

old I didn't have any ideas and so I

thought I would become an entrepreneur

make a whole bunch of money by the age

of 30 and then with that money try to

figure out a plan to do it and so lucky

me I sold Braintree venmo at 34 I made a

few hundred million dollars it sold for

800 million dollars right

and then I set my mind to this question

of what one thing in existence

could I do that would be relevant in the

25th Century I grew up on biographies

and so I'm accustomed to thinking about

things on centuries time scale

so doing things that not the matter in

the news cycle tomorrow but the

intelligence in the 21st century would

say you know what we appreciate what

happened in the early 21st century

take me a couple of years further

backwards in the the timeline I want to

understand

before the age of 16 how would you

describe the personality of that young

man if I if you walked in here now and

you sat down how would you like

characterize that young man

friendly and fun so I think that the

event that activities maybe that defines

me the best is I was in

seventh grade going into eighth grade

and there was the kid started breaking

out into different groups of identities

donors jocks you know nerds and it

saddened me because I wanted to be

friends with everybody and people

started creating these groups and there

was this conflict between which groups

can hang out with which groups and so I

made a map of the social structure of

the entire School of what people were

what groups and then where they're at

within that group so were they the the

alpha in the group and then you had the

second tiers and third tiers and then I

systematically went about and I became

friends with everyone in the entire

school every single group and it didn't

matter who you were

I was friends with you and so I really

enjoyed connecting with people I enjoyed

the friendships I enjoyed the

interactions I enjoyed different people

for different reasons and uh

I guess that's kind of stuck with me

where I the idea of group structure and

hindering it's same with ideas like if

you're in a certain idea and you can't

Bridge another idea

the outcome wasn't the most telling part

of that story the most telling part of

the story was the process the process if

you made a physical like a physical

diagram in the school you didn't just do

it in your head you went home as how a

16 year old or something yeah uh yeah so

I was um

like 13 12 or 13. yeah you must be able

to say objectively that that's unusual

behavior for a 12 year old to be that

analytical about problem solving uh for

12 year old that's not what I was doing

when I was doing plastic ball against

the fence and you're dissecting the

social structure of the school and then

manipulating it to make friends with

everybody yeah that's how information

presents itself like when I meet

somebody uh like in the movie A

Beautiful Mind with John Nash who did uh

equilibrium uh Nash equilibrium uh

there's a scene where you go into his

garage and he has this big wall and has

like pictures and then it has pins and

it has threads everything connected it's

like this mad man's wall that's how my

my mind understands information is when

I meet somebody or or look at a given

problem I instantaneously go to creating

a map of all information uh like one of

the center pieces what's connecting to

what how is it structured what's the

dimensions of it and so even if I meet

someone new and they tell me a story

like you know I was at the coffee shop

and you're like what details do they

include in this conversation what is

their the person they're telling me

about what about the reaction for the

people what elements do they identify

and that then enables me to create this

structure of their mind and how they

package the information and so yeah my

mind just naturally uh hangs on to every

single word and creates a scaffolding of

how the person understands reality

that sounds exhausting to someone whose

mind does not work in that way

it's exhilarating

so 19 years old you go from this this

Mormon mission to Ecuador this

ultimately culminates in a question

challenging your faith

um happened to me the same age in fact I

was very religious when I was younger

and then 80 19 years old that's all

starts to fall apart what was your

process like

uh it was torture

and I think I'm not sure what religion

you are in Christianity or whatever yeah

yeah okay yeah this was not a whatever

thing for me

when you're a raised Mormon it is your

singular reality and identity of

existence it's not like you're casually

involved it's everything you are as a

human and so

when you are like when you're born into

it and then force fed that

and your entire Community is built upon

that it creates structures in your mind

that you're not even aware of and so as

I began breaking from it I would

rationally be able to walk to the

conclusions say logically I don't

understand the situation but then

emotionally the brain was like hold

tight you know like we feel the

following things we can't quite

structure in a logical format and it

creates this bizarre conundrum in the

brain and so I had that difficulty then

that got caught up in my depression

where in my early 20s I my brain I got

into chronic depression where the brain

was like life is awful you know

everything is hopeless life is not worth

living you should kill yourself and so

in that moment I learned that I could

observe my brain dropping these thoughts

on me and that I wasn't my thoughts

like Depression was The Depression was

speaking

but it wasn't me

and when I learned that I thought wait a

second if I am an observing depression

and action here

what can I trust for my brain in the

first place so when a thought drops in

my my awareness

where did that come from and could I

trust it under what circumstances and

then I realized if my brain is doing

this to me other brains are doing this

other people

how can I trust their brains and so it's

just like this Authority collapse where

in religion all the people who I had

trusted to tell me

to give me

wise advice about life that fell apart

my brain fell apart other people's

brains fell apart and I began arriving

to this observation who in reality can I

trust no matter what circumstances

and that really started that kickstarted

the process of me trying to reconstruct

my reality in a way that I felt was

stable

versus like ping-ponging around to like

just wild emotion and this random

thought from my brain how long did your

Depression last and when did it start uh

age 24 I remember I was in the a parking

lot one day with my brother we were

working on a startup and something just

broke in my brain I remember telling him

like Hey something just happened I feel

it it's weird and he was like just power

through it I'm like okay but I I

physically felt something happened one

day and then I just got in this funk for

10 years and I couldn't get out of it 10

years

and what did that funk look like

practically day to day or week by week

it was uh

they're like all these different layers

of problems so I I was married we had uh

we had our first baby at the age of 25

so I've got a baby at home I'm not

sleeping we're taking care of the first

one then I'm building startups on top of

that and then we're also working my way

out of Mormonism but then that's a

conflict because my wife is you know

also Mormonism and the kid like the

communities around us and all my entire

world is this community and so then we

don't have any money to pay our bills

I'm in a startup I'm trying to figure

out how to deal with the religion thing

trying to keep my marriage together it

just creates this

disaster of a circumstance where I just

I'm paralyzed and stuck in the

depression in the relationship in the

religion not sleeping depressed trying

to survive in the startup world and it

was that was kind of my state for about

10 years trying to navigate all those

competing complexities when you look

back and try you diagnose the factors

that cause that depression is it that

that pressure from all different sides

that you think caused the depression I

do and so during that 10 years I I

pursued solving my depression with equal

rigor as I have anything else I tried

everything known to humans to solve

depression nothing worked the thing that

worked is my relationship ended and I

left the Mormon church

and it just left it and that was the

most remarkable experience of my life I

just thought it was like this permanent

State I couldn't exit but those two

modifications

just lifted the cloud and what did that

teach you about the nature of your

depression

uh

I was paralyzed

and those decisions felt Unthinkable to

me even though I could logically

conclude this religion was not something

I was going to follow and the

relationship wasn't working out the idea

of becoming a divorced father

and being in that circumstance the idea

of leaving my entire community of going

out and sticking out a new existential

reality it paralyzed me and I couldn't

get over the idea that it would be

better on the other side

and once I once I got myself there that

it's actually better for the kids that

was the key thing for me is

there was one experience I was in turkey

with some friends late at night

and it snapped in my brain the kids are

better off with these decisions and

that's all I needed and then the next

day I put everything into motion

and why did that matter to you so much

do you think

I suppose that uh for whatever reason I

have been an intensely devoted father

like I care deeply about being there for

my children for whatever reason yeah I

mean I don't know why you know like it's

just it's maybe it's part of my identity

maybe I'm trying to compensate for

something I don't know but I I invested

very very heavily into my children and

the idea of being a divorced father

you know with like some kind of split

custody situation with some kind of

weird thing between Mom and me and like

you know that whole thing I just I

couldn't

I couldn't sign up for it and so I

stayed in the bad relationship I stayed

in the religion trying to thinking that

it was my kids were better off because

of it and I really they weren't

links to your own childhood doesn't it

where your parents separated when you

were super young

yeah like so much was going on in my

mind when I'm three years old and my dad

is no longer present and then my mom

premiered eight my father goes through a

bunch of problems and like I remember my

father

uh I give credit to my father for owning

up to his life I remember I I knew my

father was on drugs at the age like

seven or eight

and I would call him when I knew he was

high

I'd say hey Dad like how's it going

and

you know like

um

I just knew it I wrote him letters and

like he you know

um

yeah we just worked through it together

but uh it was always on my mind

if you're visibly emotional to say that

yeah

why

I mean he's in pain and he's stuck and

he can't overcome this terrible thing

that's ruining his life and he's not a

father to me and you know he

he uh he can't pick me up when he says

he's gonna pick me up and he can't do

the things he wants to do so it's just

it's uh it depressed it steals life from

him and it still is life from me and

it's something that uh

dominated his life for a long time

you make that decision to separate and

to leave the community of Mormonism

what's life like from then onwards

I mean

so it was I I sold Braintree yeah so

within one year's time

I sold Braintree

got a divorce

left the church

and overcame my depression wow

and what are you

one year and I think maybe the moment

that captures it the most is I was I was

in Virginia at the time

and I was looking at where I was going

to live next and so I spent some time in

New York

and for the first time I went to a party

in Brooklyn a warehouse party or they

they started like at midnight or one

and I'd go there with some friends and I

would dance for six seven hours

and it was I think one of the most

joyful experiences of my entire life I

had never danced before

but for some reason this moment of

eliminating all this weight that had

been on me for all this time I just felt

free and I can move my body like I never

had before my friends would

uh they would be they were in disbelief

that after five six seven hours I'm like

let's go

let's find something else but it was I

think it was probably

an outpouring of

desire that it had for all these years

that just was bottled up and it was also

the time that I I was starting to

reconstruct I mean I had the money I

didn't care about spending the money on

anything like I didn't like money has no

value to me outside of the objective to

do something meaningful for the world

and so I really started spending an

enormous amount of time thinking about

through this question if you've applied

this filter

what matters in the 25th Century

like you go back look what matters in

the 15th century and 16th and 17th and

you find that

99 of all things that happen I'm making

up a number

is gone

and we're left with these teeny little

nuggets of information now there's more

because we're capturing more than we

ever had before but time has a way to

filter out non-essential relevance

and so if you say that now if we say

what we're doing in 2023 and you look at

your life and you map out what's going

to be left of your existence in 10 years

100 years 200 years 300 years

and that's what I want to focus on is

only those things everything else is to

me in my it's not for everyone for me

it's a waste of my capacity as a person

when you describe dancing in Brooklyn I

mean if I lived in Brooklyn for three

years so I I did the warehouse parties I

know the vibe the very low unsuperficial

nature of the place and the energy you

you describe it almost therapeutically

as being able to kind of

shake out yeah wait that you were

holding yeah specifically what is that

weight you were holding you've sold

Braintree

if you're dancing in Brooklyn what is

the weight you're you're shaking out

my entire life I had been told by

Authority structures whether it be a

religion

or Society or a relationship or

Community you can do these things you

can think these things you can say these

things and you can become these things

everyone wanted to put limiters

and after that

none it was no longer a game of what you

can't do it was a game of what I can do

and it just exploded and now my entire

life is what I can do

potential is terrifying and I can the

moment somebody starts creeping on that

that they want to superimpose a label on

me or superimpose a norm or superimpose

any tool humans have to say oh you

stepped out of line you need to be

punished

I can feel it like I know where people

try to create those guardrails and

everyone does it because it's like oh if

you're doing something that's not normal

I feel uncomfortable I want to bring you

back into the herd because that's going

to make me feel a lot better and so I'm

attuned to

the constant attempts at people trying

to normalize everyone else

we do that in language right we say

someone is weird and you know I think of

moments where I broke out of my my

community when I say my community I mean

like you know you have a group of

friends and and then you say I'm going

to start business and I'm going to be

this guy and the they use words to pull

you back in these facial expressions

little subtle

you know exactly the little you're the

telling you you're weird and stupid and

ridiculous without saying it with words

um

people think you're weird don't they

uh that's one word they use yeah yeah

now it makes sense to me now now it

makes sense to me with the context of

your religion and how

imprisoned you you say you felt in the

context of that religion I can now

understand your resilience and your

resistance

to falling in line

yeah and not only that it's it's play

now for me right it's like a mousetrap

yeah

um I want to push the part of the mouse

trap that makes it snap and pull my

finger out before my finger gets trapped

and it's just like this whole little

thing is a set of mouse traps I'm like

this one today and then like by doing

that you really get a feel for these all

these invisible layers we have in

society so what you just said is it's so

I loved your comment it's just like like

the smallest facial feature and uh audio

captures the whole thing right like I

disapprove of your behavior of your

thought process if you do this I'm going

to penalize you by not offering you my

friendship and approval and you put in

the Penalty Box and it's like

half of a second of a gesture but it

collapses the entirety on your shoulders

where you're like oh man

I don't want to be part of the out group

I want to be part of the group

I wonder how much potential is trapped

behind those little facial expressions

and that little social Conformity

pressure you know like human potential

of creativity and Ingenuity and thinking

for yourself and you know

must be a

Jesus Christ most of human potential

must be trapped behind that yeah so this

is the thing this is why I'm playing

when you build this wall and you have

images you have strings attached to each

one you're trying to scaffold like how

is information scaffolded

you can use this you can poke a system

and get the response back and then get

fill in the Contours like oh like this

is what people think and feel in this

moment of what the Norms are because

otherwise they're invisible so that's

why when someone tells you a story about

their behavior at the coffee shop and

how some person was rude to someone or

whatever they're revealing to them that

to everyone else in the conversation all

the norm structures they have

and if you listen carefully you

understand how they have scaffold

information what Norms they've accepted

which things are rejecting and where

they play in that hierarchy

are there any correlations between

the most successful people you've met or

happy people you know you've met and

their ability to embody and take on

these social constructs do you know what

I'm saying yeah my mother is one of the

happiest people I've ever met my life

and she plays exactly in the norm

structure of the religion she's deeply

religious she's still Mormon she thrives

in the Mormon Community everyone loves

her

she's delightfully happy and so my

mother does not need to push boundaries

she doesn't need to explore the

possibilities she she has a singular

reality it works for her she's happy

she's joyful she's a fantastic mother so

I guess there's like all these different

archetypes of people who play in

different spaces for me that wasn't

where I thrive

you thrive

my education has come from biographies

and I've read

I don't know over 100.

all throughout history and I love

learning about people in their time and

place who identify something impossibly

hard to see

and do

and they did both

and when you do that it the algorithm of

human behavior is so predictable

of defiance and hate and vitriol like it

just goes through the same cycle every

single time and so I have all these

models in my mind of people who've done

these things and so I know when I do

this myself I know what models to

anticipate I know how that naturally

winds its way through Society and also

how to fingerprint what things are

inevitable so you find a given thing you

say what are the characteristics around

this idea or invention or whatever

and then once you have it you know it's

societal adoption is inevitable it does

not matter what humans say doesn't

matter if they Revolt doesn't matter if

they bring the pitchforce that doesn't

matter it's going to find its way

through push all the way through

humanity and that's the thing is the

what are the ideas you can't see what

characteristics do they have and when

they become inevitable and do you

consider yourself to be an instigator of

new ideas

if I were to make a Whimsical and flimty

statement I would say I was born to

introduce these new ideas into society

and what is that new idea

uh it's that in the 21st century

the only objective we have is don't die

don't die

it's that simple

but we're gonna we're all gonna die now

you don't think so this is the thing so

this is why it sounds

silly because I was told everybody dies

the only thing inevitable in life is

death are we driving past a graveyard

the other day and I pointed and said

great business that because yeah because

you know I think it was like it was like

a it was a graveyard it was a um like a

funeral home and I was like great

business yeah they'll never have a

customer yeah

okay so if you let's think about the

structure of why that statement may be

the rallying Cry of the 21st century

those two words

so we may think like we're inclined to

think that

uh genius or sophistication or whatever

is in this much broader complexity of

statement it may be two words don't die

so Galaxy's 13.8 years old Earth is 4.5

right something like that

where baby steps away from creating

super intelligence

we cannot

we cannot model out what the future is

going to be like in any way shape or

form

we do not have the intellectual capacity

to predict to model to anticipate we're

blind

it's an intelligence first period in US

in that situation the only thing we can

play

is don't die

don't kill each other

don't ruin our biosphere

don't rule in Planet Earth

and don't underestimate aligning with AI

the only objective of the future of our

existence

we have to figure out how all

Intelligence on this planet cooperates

humans and the planet artificial

intelligence it's this big tapestry of

goal alignment of cooperation

that is the only task Humanity has ahead

of us

okay let's start with number one then

yeah so the first one is don't die so I

guess yes or no question do you think

it's possible for us in the in the short

future to live forever yes okay right

I'm gonna go one step further back your

health Journey before you came to that

realization what did that look like in

terms of were you a healthy young man

were you were you drinking alcohol yeah

no I mean as a as a kid my mother did a

did the best she could under the

circumstances we were pretty poor she

ground we She Made bread for us we also

ate sugar cereal we put sugar on our

sugar sugar cereal we were in the sun

constantly with no sunscreens we had

excessive skin sun exposure

um you know we ate processed foods like

it was just it was United the United

States cultural environment in the 1980s

like we just were cemented in that

cultural norm so I'd say you know not

terribly healthy uh then 20 years of

Entrepreneurship depression bad

relationship trying to live with

religion I kind of destroyed myself body

and mind for 20 years

and how do you feel about that now

because I remember reading a quote where

you said it pains me to think about the

damage you've done to your body up until

that up until now it pained me really it

pains me to see all the damage I did to

myself

really pains you it does

when I you know that's a phrase right

but is there reality to that pain I

I feel like I have a relationship to my

former self as though my former self

were present I don't view it as a it's

gone by because in many ways when I'm

reversing my aging when I'm becoming

more healthy I'm moving back in time I'm

moving back to a younger biological

state so I'm occupying the person that

formerly occupied me and so I I have

this relationship with time that is

atypical or typically I would normally

say like well that's just happened and

now I just have to go forward but given

where the science and technology is at I

do believe we can travel back in time

now it's you know we're blueprint is

showing the possibilities we're not

there yet on doing this these dramatic

things but I think it's coming

and so yeah I I've literally feel pain

because I'm moving into that space

you feel pain because you're moving into

that space okay yeah that is yeah most

of us consider the past to be gone

exactly I don't I I feel like I

feel like it's recoverable and that I

experience it

so take me forward from that point then

I want to know when things started to

change in terms of your health

perspective and just do not die yeah

well I started taking care of myself

after I saw Braintree in the divorce and

all that kind of stuff I started paying

attention to my health more so than I

ever had my entire life

and it came back to this question you

know what one thing do I do in existence

that would be meaningful not five things

or six things like one thing that

matters in the 25th Century and

I worked on I came up with this idea

that basically

the core of it is

I can't trust myself to act act in my

best interest and it's stem from

depression I knew my mind my mind was

encouraging me to commit suicide on a

Non-Stop basis yes yeah that's what

chronic depression feels like is you

desperately want to commit suicide every

moment of every day you just want relief

from the awfulness and you can't you

cannot imagine

feeling not depressed and so I I knew

that I couldn't trust my mind when it

was doing these things and so then also

I have this problem with food where I

would feel so depressed and I would feel

stressed from the day from work with my

kids and so it was my inability to stop

myself

from overeating every single night and

walking myself into an early grave so

then I paired those things two things

together like okay first of all my

brain's like hey why don't you commit

suicide and two my body's like why don't

you just eat yourself into Oblivion and

I couldn't stop myself

I thought this is really weird that we

humans are the most intelligent species

on the planet yet I'm doing these

behaviors that are not in my best

interest this is really weird and I

can't stop but I'm totally helpless in

doing it and start piecing together this

philosophy of like okay this is

interesting we kind of treat planet

Earth like we treat our bodies my

behavior is not too dissimilar from what

Society is doing

and I thought what is the larger

implication of the situation

we humans

have a problem

of acting in our best interest

is there alternative structure of

authority

that could do a better job

and that's when I really came up with

the core of what blueprint is which is I

said okay instead of my mind doing this

on a regular basis I'm going to measure

every organ in my body

I'm going to ask it what it needs to be

in its best space so my kidney and liver

and heart and lungs you're going to take

the data look at scientific evidence and

then create an algorithm and then I'm

going to follow that algorithm

uh perfectly and so my body is going to

call the shots not my mind

and that was when it all kind of came

together uh with trying to piece the

other AI maybe the revolution

is we humans have done a wonderful job

to arrive at this point

maybe it's time for us to pass the

Reigns to other control systems

that manage our long-term interests

better

and what are those long-term control

systems that you believe can manage our

interests better I mean for example now

like my my mind is not authorized to

look at a menu in order it's not

authorized to have a pizza party it's

not authorized to just on the whim

decide I want to have a cookie

my body is in charge my body reports

this data it looks at scientific

evidence and algorithm runs so I have

opted into an algorithm that takes

better care of me

than I can myself

my mind can chirp

and can Heckle from the bleachers

but it does not have the authority to

make the decision

but you must understand the mind is

doing that for a reason the mind is also

concerned with survival it's not that uh

um cause harm to you that's not it's

objective

you know it wasn't that makes no sense

from a survival perspective that you'd

have this enemy in your head

so how do you reason why the mind is

telling you to do these things

if we just let the data speak so let's

just say uh we're looking at DNA

methylation patterns and it's these are

this is data that shows how fast the

body's aging so here's your speed of

Aging so I take my former self and say

what is the data show how fast am I

aging and how fast is disease

progressing and what's my what's my

likelihood of dying then and now

and you compare the two

there's no comparison the system that's

running me now so far out competes the

other version it's ridiculous

so just from a so let's just um I'll go

one layer deeper on this

what I did is I

I asked this broader question so we have

ai we have super Intelligence being

created we have to figure out alignment

how do we use AI so that we humans

continue to exist

so we don't kill each other

so the AI doesn't destroy everything

like so we're just trying to survive

right Society to survive how would you

possibly go about doing that problem

and so I started thinking about this

alignment problem within me so I'm 35

trillion cells thereabouts maybe more

how could I as an entity align my 35

trillion cells to cooperate

and we're trying to do that with people

with Society right you're trying to get

this huge number of things to cooperate

and then I wanted to measure and say

Okay what is perfect cooperation on the

objective of me slowing my speed of

Aging

and then I did hundreds of measurements

and we said okay here's actually what

science can do in this moment with

everything with diet and sleep and

exercise all being perfect here's the

maximum amount of slowing speed of Aging

for my 35 trillion sales to do

anything above that I consider it to be

an act of violence now we use violence

in society to we typically associate

people beating each other like physical

acts of violence I expanded the term to

capture my own behavior

so if I did if I ate something or did

something that would increase my speed

of Aging that was an act of violence

against self

because my 35 trillion sales were no

longer aligned it was like this one

aberration be like hey I wanted this

thing but it ruins 35 trillion cells I

wanted to pose a question we as a

species are trying to figure out how to

cooperate can I do that with me as a

single entity

and that's what I've been trying to do

goal alignment within Brian Johnson 35

trillion cells to a single objective

exist

so why is the brain our adversary

why is it being uncooperative with the

longevity of the 35 million cells

I mean let's just say like let's just

remove all story let's just say if we

categorized as violence anything we did

as a species

that brought death closer to us whether

it be our personal death or whether it

be the Earth's death and we Quantified

that and we said how much violence do we

do we do in a self-destructive way what

is that number

huge

so if you when you look at that frame we

are a self-destructive species now it

goes back this idea that of death of

like if you say death is inevitable for

everybody

it doesn't matter if I commit these

self-destructive acts like I'm gonna die

anyway so like why do I care if it's 10

years earlier than normal whatever I'm

35 now and I've when I'm 70 I don't care

if I live to 80 like that's how you

think so that's why this this whole

death idea

feeds the self-destruction because no

one cares

if death is not inevitable you

immediately come back to the thing to

threatens the thing you care about the

very most which is anything that

threatens existence

and so the society we have right now the

majority of the philosophies say

be you know play by these rules and you

get this afterlife

right they said death is inevitable but

we're all playing for this later game

and so everyone feels fine in this

colossal self-destruction

if you take that away

and then you say you can live in this

life

it's an entirely different game and

that's why the 21st century the singular

revolution could be don't die because it

it flips the philosophical structure of

society on its head

and this will lead you to project

blueprint which is what

a project blueprint is an attempt

at

don't die at every layer of society

individually collectively with AI and

the planet so you trying to reverse your

your age or are you trying not to die

are you trying both off

and so the same thing is true like just

like I've done blueprint with me

planet Earth is the body

so you would approach the same problem

you would measure Earth with millions of

measurements at some interval you'd use

scientific evidence to say what is the

appropriate sustainable biosphere of

coral reef of ocean of temperature in

the in the world of ocean acidity of all

the different parts of our biosphere

and you apply the scientific evidence

and that creates the closed loop system

to say this is how you don't die

okay so let's focusing again on do not

die which was actually one of the Only

Rule in my first company now it feels

like it has new meaning we wrote it on

the wallet when we first moved into the

office we just wrote one rule here and

we just wrote do not die that's great we

said it as a joke but you know maybe

you're under something yeah

when you think about do not die what are

the things that stand the greatest

chance of killing us in order of

priority

like there's basic things on a

day-to-day basis like driving is among

the highest risk factors we do all of us

do on a databases so every time I get

into a car I have a ritual where I say

driving I say it out loud driving is the

most dangerous thing I do

as a reminder every time I get in the

car

don't text don't be on your phone

like pay attention to the rise of the

road because like you you forget every

time you jump in the car you're so

tempted to like do all these things that

imperil your life so you say that out

loud every time I'd love to watch you

drive

where you can drive me whenever as well

because I feel like I trust you to focus

on the road so driving is number one of

things that pose a really statistically

High threat of mortality what else yeah

I mean there are so people have built

nice statistical models that that uh

show like risk of death like insurance

companies of course like they do that um

I'm really after the cultural norms yeah

that

we have built a society addicted to

addiction

we're all addicted

so you you just think about this from a

25th Century perspective you put a human

Like Us in an environment

and you encircle them

with dozens of fast food chains dozens

of uh stores selling sugary drinks of

junk food of porn of infinite scroll of

Netflix binging alcohol smoking gambling

nicotine right like you like your

masturbation not yeah like there you go

like your list is and then you say like

okay human

on your own with your own willpower

resist this and then around them you've

got

the power of our Godlike Powers pointing

at the individual with the only

objective is to getting that person

addicted to their thing their app their

food their show their whatever

everything's point in the individual the

individual is like

I'm overwhelmed I can't sleep you know

like I don't feel well I I can't

exercise I don't have any time

we were just sick as a society and it's

because we've structurally built this

around this yeah it's a it's kind of a

disaster for us in the moment where

we're trying to muster up soberness of

thought

of how do we navigate these simultaneous

existential risks we Face how do we not

destroy our biosphere how do we align

with AI how do we get humans not engage

in nuclear war or bio Warfare or

whatever

it's um we're just we have really

serious challenges to solve and we're

all impaired

it makes you have a great deal of

empathy for The Human Experience when

you you frame as we've taken a human

being you know baby is born and then we

surround them with fast food chains and

sugar and all these things that are

highly highly addictive and then we say

to them be healthy do your best yeah you

know don't don't kill yourself and you

know yeah good luck good luck it's sad

and then it's it's I say empathy because

you have when you frame it like that I

go no wonder people are struggling you

know with sleepless nights obesity

cardiovascular diseases porn addictions

drug addictions

you know because we've manipulated the

I'm not going to try and pretend I'm a

neuroscientist but we've manipulated the

chemicals in their brain yeah

to control them for often for you know

corporate greed and other things that's

right

you mentioned sleep

and you point at this as being really

foundational to

Health yeah when I sit here with these

you know psychologists and health

experts and doctors and heart surgeons

and brain surgeons they always point to

sleep as they all point at sleep as

being foundational the other day you did

a tweet

about your sleep do you know what I'm

talking about

screenshot yeah I think it was whoop

right yeah that's right

and it showed that you'd had a hundred

percent sleep for six months straight

four months straight now four months

straight 99 Brazil yes 100 for four

months 99 the other two months I'm going

for a six month 100 streak

why is sleep so important

because you you cite it in your work as

being one of the the most foundational

things I think you actually called it

the most important in one one interview

yeah

I mean if if you and I were gonna make a

list of like

the things that

are most influential in our lives in how

we think about and feel about life

I would put number one asleep nothing

changes my conscious existence

more

than a poor night sleep or a bad or

they're a good night's sleep

I agree

I've become incredibly obsessed with my

sleep some people's obsessions they

become a little bit unhealthy but mine I

think is healthy because it certainly

moved my life forward in every metrical

area that I care about

um let's go on and go in and sleep then

so what do you do

to achieve this month over month perfect

sleep because when I saw that I thought

oh my [ __ ] god like I use whoop as

well as you can see and yeah if I can

trust your data to mine yeah you know

sometimes I'm having like 24 recovery 50

recovery if I go to a hotel room then

it's even worse I flew out here to La I

had three the first three days my sleep

was awful the fourth day it was fine

what are you doing

yeah

um yeah I'm so glad you have that shared

experience for those who do try to track

it and even those with whoop

many don't realize how hard it is

the most important thing is I

I've built my life around sleep

now that is the exact opposite of

cultural norms where sleep is the thing

that gets pushed around

so if you want to go out with friends

delay your bedtime if you want if you

need to finish a work project or school

project if you want to hang out and

watch your new show just dropped you

want to watch a few episodes we push

sleep around from our earliest of days

like it's always the thing that can be

compromised and I made a rule that sleep

happens every single night at the same

time no exceptions ever

I mean that must come at a cost it does

come at a cost what is the cost I mean

that cost is substantially less now

because I've made the hard decisions

and uh so it's no longer

getting there is hard but once you do

that and it's the norm it becomes much

easier you just have to make the life

changes so that's the first big one then

I did like a bunch of small things like

for example my last meal of the day is

at 11AM

sorry well your last meal of the day is

at 11AM yes I eat between 6 a.m and 11

A.M okay and so then by the time I go to

bed at 8 30 I've got you know eight plus

hours of digestion so I sleep best on an

empty stomach now some some people don't

like that they feel pain they do much

better sleeping towards night but I ran

a few hundred experiments of a time to

eat how much to eat what kinds of foods

to eat what kind of exercise protocols

I've trialled hundreds of times and I

found a protocol that worked for me

where when I do this and I lay down

before bed my resting heart rate is

around 45.

if I get that I know I'm going to have a

new perfect night sleep if it's elevated

at a 53 or 54 because of like a few

events that could trigger to a higher I

know I'm gonna have a I'm going to

struggle to hit like deep and REM goals

and I might be a little more Restless

I'll still hit my 100 objective but it's

not going to be as the same level of

quality as if I hit something else

so I know all the little little teeny

tiny tweaks to get this to be perfect

every night I asked you a second ago I

want to make sure I get announced to

this I said this must come at a cost

yeah what is the cost

so my bedtime is at 8 30 because that's

where the data led me

I tried 11 10 39 I tried all the

different variations since this just

worked

um so anything that happens past 8 30 I

don't participate in and so sometimes my

friends are doing things past 8 30 that

I want to do

but I don't do them so I miss out on

certain social events now my friends

have been cool enough where they'll do

things to accommodate my time frame so

do something in the late afternoon where

I can do things with them and hang out

and have fun and still make my bedtime

and so my friends have been and family

have been great to adapt to allow me to

participate in community while still

doing this

so I've been I've been experimenting as

well I mean I can have to say to tell

you I've been experimenting feels like

I'm not going to say my experiments but

what I've I've got a bunch of hypotheses

around my sleep one of the big ones as

well as the room temperature so during

summer in the UK because most houses in

the UK don't have air conditioning

because we don't expect the Sun so it's

a surprise yeah

um through those four weeks where we

have sunshine I don't my sleep is awful

I'm sweating in bed what would you say

about temperature and also I've got a

broken blind in the room yeah so you

know at 6am or whatever the light starts

pouring in what would you say about all

those factors I agree uh temperature

plays a significant role light does a

sound

yeah whether you have a partner in bed

with you or not yeah I'm going to talk

about this yeah

because I actually speaking of Simon

cynic last night about this we went to

dinner and I was talking to him about

having sat with Matthew Walker and we

discussed I think Matthew Walker Donna

quote him inaccurately but he said when

there's divorce and couples break up 15

of the reason is attributed to sleep I.E

them compromising each other's sleep

what do you think about sleeping in bed

with somebody else

it's a it's a hard topic because a lot

of people don't have the luxury of

sleeping in different rooms yeah when

somebody wants to have good sleep there

are some things they can't control like

trying to go to bed at a certain time is

something they have some control over

they need to adjust Lifestyles and

family and stuff like that

but sometimes that relationship but so

people who do have the fortunate

circumstances to be in separate rooms

it is substantially better because

trying to negotiate with another person

their bedtime their sleep hygiene

is really difficult and wake events are

very costly once you go uh once you get

woken up and then go back to sleep is

very hard so it's just extremely

challenging when you've got to

coordinate with another human

so do you ever sleep in bed with someone

else no

what about hanky-panky

no you have no sex uh not after 8 30.

okay so you gotta do like

Morning Glory

yeah I mean so these are these are the

kinds of things like you know uh so I'm

single yeah in circumstances where I've

tried to date

the first thing I do is I give them a

list of 10 things like here's all the

things you're gonna hate about me and

it's gonna make me an impossible partner

for you

and like you know those are like it's a

big deal what is on the list

give me the list I mean so uh sleep is

one thing you know I go to bed at 8 30.

uh my food regimen is another now I do

compromise on foods like if we if we go

out with friends we'll have dinner time

then I will save up you know a certain

number of calories and I'll eat

something at the restaurant some steamed

vegetables or something like that so I

do try to be normal and also when I'm

out with people

nothing makes people feel more

uncomfortable than an empty plate and

think why what are you doing and are you

on a fast protocol are you in a juice

cleanse and so I just try to blend into

the environment like there's no

questions everyone can enjoy being

present

though I try to do those things

um but other

yeah other things for example like my

desire to speak I I'm not a talkative

person I don't do small talk

so my son and I have a protocol at the

house where there's no exchange like

good morning how are you you know like

I'm deep in thought like my morning my I

go to bed early I wake up early and I

have these four or five hours of

concentrated thought where I can think

about these really big pictures and try

to pull myself out of my situation and

just be as sober as possible like what

is really happening to the best of my

abilities and that's actually probe

myself to these these deep levels and I

you can get knocked off so fast just

like a little teeny interaction hey how

are you doing how was your sleep you

have to activate this mode of like I'm

gonna be a nice person I'm going to

engage with you I'm going to listen to

you and just shifting that knocks me off

and so there's with the path that I've

chosen that I really care about

achieving these objectives

I break all these social norms

and it's offensive to a lot of people

you know that it's just not not an

acceptable situation for a lot of people

that's another instance though where

someone would say oh he's weird yeah

exactly right and when you so when I was

just saying this I absolutely am mapped

to everyone listening to this being like

that dude it was awful I would never

want to be with him oh what a boar or

like I'd imagine I can see all the

comments on social media now like dozens

and dozens of people ripping me to be

like oh that dude and like making their

meanest comment I know that's going to

trigger it it's like throughout this

whole thing of course like people are

gonna grab what I say and they're gonna

try to just dissect me and rip me apart

for all the things I violate that they

don't want to exist

so

it's a constrained romantic relationship

we're gonna have if we're we're me and

you together Brian because he can't

speak in the morning I can't speak to

you in the morning can't really do any

hanky pancakes so I mean there's kind of

a small window for our relationship to

exist

we're gonna have to get a lot done yeah

like three or four hours yeah we're

gonna have to have sex and then we're

gonna have to resolve all of our

problems and then I'm gonna have to

offload yeah what else is is important

there tell me about your sleep regime so

the things you do just before sleep we

know you don't eat near sleep anything

else that's really important

uh I'd say let me take them off yes go

to bed same time every night no

exceptions

temperature controlled room and or

mattress what temperature

uh I currently am at I think 71. I go to

bed at 78 and then Fahrenheit and then I

sleep at 71 thereabouts then I come up

for REM 73. so temperature and then

sound sound yep so uh aware of

potential

sources of noise that could wake you up

so if you

um

if you're in a noisy environment of

sirens like a big city environment or

dogs barking or something being aware

because sound will wake you up and so

you're really trying to minimize it

every time you wake up

if you need to do something to limit

what consider your ears or doing white

noise or whatever you're doing

then identifying when you eat and what

you eat for example I know from my

experience in trying new things if I

were to sometimes I would try an almond

crust

piece of pizza like this is years ago

when I'm really trying to start figuring

stuff out that would wreck my sleep

flower of any type wrecks my sleep it

elevates my resting heart rate into the

high 50s and I know I'm going to have

about 50 percent less deep sleep

and it's all these little teeny tiny

understandings of how a particular kind

of food is going guaranteed direct my

sleep or even three ounces of red wine

anytime after noon guaranteed to

devastate my deep sleep

and

so understanding how food intake affects

that and then I know I try to have an

hour a wind down time every night

if I go to bed if I work right up to

when I go to bed

I will ruminate all night long on that

topic and so it will feel like I never

actually go to sleep

because I'm always just in that light

sleep ruminating on this problem but

weirdly I found that if I follow my

entire protocol right before I go to bed

now I'll assign my brain a problem every

night before I go to bed and I now have

my very best thoughts in life in my

sleep

my brain figures things out much more

efficiently in my sleep than I do when

I'm awake the now's become an asset to

me uh versus before it was just a

terrible experience

and if if I you know I I if I can I

sometimes I gotta be honest sometimes I

have snacks before bed you know

which we're amongst friends here I can

be honest sometimes you know you know

sometimes it just gets about because I

feel that because I work quite late into

the night and then I get to 9 or 10 p.m

and I'll be sat there thinking I've not

eaten yet and I've got this pain in my

stomach so getting just going to bed on

with the pain in my stomach feels quite

difficult so I'll just you know

order something on one of these little

apps yeah yeah don't tell anybody

because you know um but they're not and

then I eat it and you're right 10

seconds it feels great and then after

that I feel I feel like crap yeah you

have to pay the price the whole next day

is there anything that I you you can eat

later in the day or you can eat at

dinner time that has a smaller negative

adverse consequence in your sleep is it

just like vegetables and stuff

vegetables are fine vegetables and this

is for me I need to clarify what I do is

for me other people thrive on other

things so this is just a data point

people can use in their mind that you

fine-tune all these different things but

I think the data is interesting I've

never seen anyone with a four month

streak of perfect sleep I'm in the 98

99.6 percentile of recovery too so it's

not just my sleep quality which people

often say oh you can just gain that not

a big deal people who know really know

that's not true but then also optimizing

if you're HIV and your your uh

respiration rate my recovery is also

99.6 percentile so I'm hitting

all the markers on the highest quality

possible performance in sleep and my

body's recovering at the maximum

capacity and so it's good data that I'm

not just making stuff up the data shows

I'm potentially best in world on this

measurement profile

or among so it's interesting that it's a

reasonable way for someone to

contemplate what they might do in their

life do you think there's anyone better

in the world that's sleeping than you

probably there's there's probably some

people may I I wonder if all the years

of ruining myself

if it has a carryover effect like I just

can't make up entirely for all the

things I did I wonder if that's the case

and I wonder if people who haven't done

that naturally sleep better than me and

that I have to try extra hard now

because I'm compensating for all the

damage I did to myself I don't know

for those in my certain circumstances I

don't think anyone tries harder to sleep

than me

hey John V you mentioned that why is

that important and what did it what what

is it yeah it's a heart rate variability

and it's a representation of your

nervous system there's two parts your

parasynthetic nervous system and your uh

it's like your autonomic number system

and you're trying to basically

tether between being chill

and being in fight or flight and so when

you're stressed

your body's like all right like we're

ramped up we've called all the resources

to do this job but you can't be in that

high State Long you need to be in a

relaxed State as well so you're trying

to bring the parasynthetic nervous

system on in time and to relax the

sympathetic nervous system and so the

HIV is representation of are you chill

or are you stressed having a high HRV is

better than having a low HRV I worked

very hard at it it's been one of the

hardest markers we've had to move I I

had a meaningful increase in my HRV over

the past 500 Days

I was I started I was believing the ER

like the mid-30s range and I'm now up in

the low 60s on average

so uh good gains but still not anywhere

close where I want to be uh I thought

where I thought we'd be at this point

it's been really really hard to move and

you hate heart rate ver variability

right yes is that what it's called and

what is that as in it's the gaps between

your heartbeats or something exactly yes

the interval between yeah so it measures

the interval between your heart beats

and how much that varies or

that's right okay so you want High you

want

so if my heart rate variability is like

120

I think great it's definitely above 100

depending on you know when I've done

that I'm jealous well yeah that's maybe

that's one thing I can teach you about

but but what is that 120 what I've

always wondered I see it and I know that

that's better oh milliseconds yeah

so 120 milliseconds variance between the

heartbeats

and there's a whole bunch of ways if you

get into the actual math you can measure

them you can actually do this

calculation a number of different ways

it gets really Technical and

sophisticated

but the general understanding is you

want a higher number you want a bigger

number you do you do some things before

bedtime to improve your heart rate

variability

uh I do I've tried several devices I've

used sense8 which is a vibrational thing

in the chest I've used pulsetto which is

a vibration on the vagus nerve here I've

used neural stim which is on the left

tragus

uh here anything any of them work

a little bit here and there none sustain

I mean I given the amount of effort I

put into my health and wellness I sh I

would like to think I'd be over a

hundred in my HRV

can't it doesn't move it's just a really

hard marker I wonder

if all the decades where I was depressed

out of my mind and really stressed out

of everything if I just ruined myself to

degrees that are hard to come back from

so we've been trying to find something

more advanced that would do something

outside of diet and exercise and routine

and sleep we haven't found it yet it's

crazy that one of the most pivotal

moments in my life was when I put my

whoop on and the founder told me about

this how important that HRV marker is

how much of an indicator it is of

overall health you know cracking with my

life had a glass of wine one day I wake

up the next morning yeah and it's

flashing red and I click on it and it's

like did you have some alcohol last

night and I'm thinking oh my God yeah

like genuinely that moment was was when

I realized that these choices I make

however small I think they might be

especially with alcohol have my heart

notices

and it's saying to me you're either it

said you're either stressed you're

either sick or you had some alcohol last

night yeah I thought I don't like those

three things being in a category

together alcohol

what'd you think of it

I used to drink three ounces every

morning with breakfast

you used to drink three three ounces of

alcohol every morning with breakfast

I enjoyed drinking alcohol I enjoyed

drinking the wine for breakfast for

breakfast because I had to create the

longest time period between my sleep to

avoid it negatively affecting my sleep

okay but then I got rid of it because it

was too expensive from a caloric

perspective it was 72 calories for the

three ounces and I couldn't fit it in

with my calorie budget

so what do you think of it in terms of

um in terms of longevity

I think the science says in moderation

is fine

I just I don't Rick it at all ever

anymore

and you've only really been been

following this protocol for a couple of

years now right yeah I mean my I guess I

I really do understand myself

as

on a singular mission

for intelligent existence to thrive

that is what I am that is what I'm doing

that's what I'm pursuing

nothing else matters to me the question

the ultimate question I think

in you know you just had all these

people are going to say I'm weird or

whatever else there's this ultimate

question because you're very very

clearly Mission driven

and there's always a cost much of what I

do here when I meet Extraordinary People

is to understand the cost in fact the

reason I start this podcast is because

we we let's call the diver CEO is

because we see the CEO stuff but we

don't see the diary that's why it's

called what it is and it started as me

just showing my diary and I shed

everything from masturbation my mental

struggles everything my issues with my

family I shared it all to to put the

cost out there to the world

cost of my mission my calling my Pursuit

the thing that was dragging me

um

the ultimate question becomes

are you happy

never more so in my entire life

unquestionably

and what does that mean

I've never felt more fulfilled I've

never felt more stable I've never felt a

more expansive Consciousness I've never

felt more free I've never felt more bold

I've never in my entire life

been this alive

and you you experienced the antithesis

of Happiness right you experienced I

mean maybe some people would argue that

it's something else but you experience

the bottom of

the crevice of depression you know what

that felt like

the voices in your head that were

telling you to do things the unthinkable

actions of

suicide

what goes on in your head now what are

the same voices saying

it's all play I'm

I've never had more fun

most of my life has just been a grind

it's like doing the things to achieve

the objective because that's what the

societal role play says to do

and that what I'm doing now I'm not

doing this for anyone's expectations I'm

not doing this to achieve anyone's

acceptance

this is the game I've selected to play I

don't care what anyone says about it

sincerely

I just feel free

when was your last Dark Day

it was about something I can't yet talk

about

I wish I could

I will be able to soon

I respect that yeah yeah but I guess

it's uh it's like Mike my answer is a

genuine

uh in time this will be a good story

but outside of that yeah what are the

things that oh and are there things that

get you down yeah I I was um recently I

was uh pretty bothered

the the hate that comes my way is

energizing to me it's thrilling

uh

when my father did something with me

publicly with this plasma transfusions

the internet kind of had their way with

him you know making fun of him and

saying rude things and mean things that

really got to me

you're like hurl up my way cool but I my

father was courageous enough to do this

thing publicly and put himself out there

and he just got torn to shreds

and it it made me feel very sad and

ashamed of humanity

like my my seven-year-old dad you know

like he's not picking a fight with

somebody you know

so much

I don't know

I guess maybe I've always felt like a

protector of my dad maybe

why

uh it's just kind of how our roles

developed I suppose

you know when when he was in a state of

need I was in a stage of ability to give

started off When We Were Young when I

was young

you talked about plasma

I I saw the image on your Instagram when

I was waiting for you in there I was

going through your Instagram and looking

at all the captions on your posts and

stuff and looking and there was that

photo of you your son who looks very

much like you by the way and your father

beautiful photo of you all of you

wearing vests

and this was one of the the sort of

experiments you did you had a hypothesis

the hypothesis was

yeah yeah

we as a team we have uh scoured every

scientific study ever done on longevity

and lifespan and we've ranked

prioritized all of them and we filtered

out like which one your animal models

human models and we try to decide which

thing to do and why and plasma exchanges

surfaced as a potential option and

people were doing it for cognitive

decline so it came up where I was

talking to my dad and he said hey Brian

I need I want you to know something that

when you begin experiencing cognitive

decline which I have you don't know

said I always thought that if I'm

starting to lose my mind I'm going to

pick it up be like Oh I'm not as sharp

as I used to be but you don't know it's

invisible to you which makes sense and

so he said I've been on blueprint for a

couple months it's come back so I'm

aware of how fast I was losing my mental

acuity I'm back so in that conversation

I said dad you know I've been looking at

these plasma exchanges and there's some

interesting studies going on right now

with column decline Alzheimer's and

things like that that are showing

interesting results how the science is

still emergent we're not sure it's going

to work but if you're interested in

doing this I'd be more than happy to

donate my plasma to you that's how it

happened and so then I tell myself is oh

yes we have blood in our body and plasma

so you take the Blood Out We're Half

Blood half plasma if you take blood out

you spin it up it separates into yellow

stuff which is plasma and then red stuff

which is blood and so they're just

different things in the platform so it's

basically taking plasma of the body and

so I gave my father a leader of my

plasma but I was talking to my about

this to my son like hey I may give up a

liter of positive to my dad and so my

son is like cool can I be involved it's

like all right so is that this really

organic thing around my father and so it

was uh a lot of people learned about

this and then they they immediately

imagine like I'm in a dungeon drinking

my son's blood and I'm like harvesting

his organs and the reality was it was a

very is a Whimsical fun

you know heartwarming thing that our

family was was discussing and so we did

it and there was some some sort of

efficacy shown in mice or something

wasn't there yeah yeah there's so this

the evidence is like not bad it's not

terribly persuasive it's emergent so

it's not like we were going in there and

realized thinking that we had a slam

dunk it was like it's interesting it's

safe so let's give it a shot and it

didn't really work so you've on me on

you yeah which makes sense I mean so I'm

chronologically 45. many of my

phenotypic markers are in their 20s

right of course so my donor was 19 and

so it makes sense the age differential

given I'm so tuned it would make sense

that you would see a big change but for

my father maybe because there's a much

bigger difference between his health

status and my status and a different age

range too did was there a difference in

your father or did you not measure uh

we're still waiting for the results oh

okay yeah his subjective reporting was

that he felt uh phenomenal but we really

want to see the data and you also need

to probably do more of these right one

is is not enough you probably do it

successively so it was it ended up being

even though we approached it as my

father's cognitive decline and we were

looking at it through a medical

perspective it ended up being a family

bonding experience where we my father

left the church when I was young he was

ostracized I left a church I was

ostracized by my children and their

family so in my estimation it was we

were divided by the Mind United by

biology this goes back to blueprint

which is

are there control systems that help us

cooperate

not the Mind our mind we want to create

tribes we want to fight with each other

and we want to find good and evil and

all that sort of thing biology doesn't I

mean biology maybe is a different

control system

and so we were just trying to optimize

health and so you go back to that system

what are the control systems running

Humanity running our families running

you and me running Society I thought it

was beautiful because it was an

experience my father and son and I never

imagined we'd have in our entire lives

and it ended up being a spectacular

experience with the family that we

really appreciated as you were speaking

I was thinking about something I've just

written in the book that I've been

writing

um one of the pages is when I discovered

my father's cigarettes and it was this

like earth-shattering moment in my life

because I was suddenly haunted by this

feeling that my father was going to die

yeah

you know because as a kid you know

cigarettes are bad everyone tells you

that and then when you find out your

father is smoking them when I was like

14 years old it was this kind of crisis