Frank Donald Trump was obsessed with me

the mayor of London wasn't somebody of

my background my faith he wouldn't

responded the way he did would he mayor

of London City Khan is the first Muslim

man has made some powerful opponents the

new image of Britain's Multicultural

Society the mayor is with us do you

think London's safe uh well we've

reduced homicides live crime family

crime I don't think people feel safe in

London I'm not excusing it I'm

explaining it because of consequences

there's been a lot of instances of

police officers who have attacked raped

women and girls on the Streets of London

what are you doing about that we're

doing it now how am I being criticized

for this since you were elected mayor

what are the things you look at and go

do you know I failed there well that's a

good question but I'm running for

election in 467 days time I'm not going

to answer that question honestly because

anything else is going to use against me

you can't tell the truth because someone

might use it against you I think most

MPS have got to be inauthentic are Ty

because

what's been your hardest day as London

mayor there's been a few at least 58

people were killed in the fire at

grenfell Tower I still remember the

images I still remember the heat one

family six people wiped out and a number

of Terror attacks in London London

Bridge Westminster Bridge Finsbury Park

I went to a lot of funerals that summer

was hard

I just want to start this episode with a

message of thanks a thank you to

everybody that Tunes in to listen to

this podcast by doing so you've enabled

me to live out my dream but also for

many members of our team to live out

their dreams too it's one of the

greatest privileges I could never have

dreamed of or imagined in my life to get

to do this to get to learn from these

people to get to have these

conversations to get to interrogate them

from a very selfish perspective trying

to solve problems I have in my life so I

feel like I owe you a huge thank you for

being here and for listening to these

episodes and for making this platform

what it is can I ask you a favor I can't

tell you how much you can change the

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the guests were able to invite to the

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this show every week so thank you let's

keep doing this and I can't wait to see

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us as a community and for this platform

[Music]

Sadiq

give me your context I spent a long time

reading through your Baxter and I think

it's an especially important place to

start because it appears to be much of

your your reason for being and your

reason for doing so can you take me

right back

um I want to hear about Pakistan I want

to hear about your your earliest years

in London sure

so first it's a pleasure to to be on

this uh Stephen can I just just say two

things before we start it's not me being

a sycophant and please don't think I'm

being patronizing but firstly

um I think you realize that you're a

massive role model to so many londoners

and there are people that you will never

meet

who you've had an impact on and so thank

you firstly for that and and I meet

people that you don't meet who when I

say Who's Your Role Models uh and I pray

you need to give examples of the hard

work you do uh so so thank you for that

but secondly congratulations it's always

lovely to meet someone who's incredibly

successful

um who's normal so my my family's uh

story uh is quite complicated

uh my grandparents and

great-grandparents were in India both of

my mum's side and my dad's side

and the story of India is India was part

of the British Empire

and the short version of the long story

is in 1947

the British decided to give up India

and partition India I don't want to go

into divide and Rule and stuff but

there'd been sectarian violence now

between Muslims Sikhs and Hindus and a

Muslim in India wasn't safe

just like a Sikh in Hindu generally

speaking in West Pakistan news Pakistan

won't say why because these countries

were going to be stensibly Muslim and

the middle India ostensibly Hindu and

Sikh so my grandparents and great

grandparents left everything behind

everything behind

so my parents had experienced being

immigrants once already right from India

to Pakistan and they had a comfortable

life in Pakistan middle class not middle

class

uh my Dad decided he was in the

Pakistani Air Force he went first to

Australia uh and

if any Australians watching this this is

no expression on your country it's a

great country right he didn't really

like Australia and so when he went when

he went back to Pakistan he didn't want

to go to Australia to live

and then he came to London

and uh he made London his home and this

is a London which yes when he first came

there were signs saying you know no

blacks no Irish no dogs by blacks

anybody who wasn't white and when I

compare my mum and dad who traveled you

know three four thousand miles learned a

new language learned a new culture

raised a family

I was born in Tuten in St George's

hospital I first lived a mile up the

road in the Henry Prince estate on a

council estate my parents moved a mile

the other way afterwards when my dad

managed to save a deposit for a house

and I now live a mile and a half from

where I was born so I've literally gone

up a mile radius right from where I was

born in my grandparents and my parents

had this huge strife and travel this way

so I'll be the first Con in three

generations and not to be a migrant

because I'm I'm staying here that whole

experience growing up in a house of 10

10 people eight siblings in total

um in a in a council house

um flat flat yeah Council flat

um

the The Immigrant story you've told

there

watching your parents struggle to

provide for both for all of you

um

what imprint has that left on you when

you look back and go that's why I am the

way that I am that's it's really I'm

really trying to get at the real

defining attributes the things that make

City different from the the average

person on the street

the work ethic the piss but you know

um and with that I also want to know you

know one of my guests on this podcast

that was the coach for Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant said that we all have a dark

side and much of our dark side is can be

attributed to the thing that makes us

quote unquote great you've seen the Last

Dance yeah oh God it sounds amazing my

favorite from upstairs in the wall yeah

so so

um

so I think you tend to

mirror emulate

and be like those you're around you copy

their mannerisms their behaviors and so

forth and I I was raised in a family

where

we felt incredibly privileged mum and

dad both made sure we understood

that this privilege meant with a

responsibility to

you know listen to your teachers at

school

to work hard

um and you know to to you know not be

Ashoka basically and so

you know all of us not just had a really

good worth of work ethics still do

all of us also it's interesting I just

think about this the other night

I've given saying back whether it's

coaching in boxing or whether it's you

know volunteering at a swimming club

whether it's you know politics or

whatever

because that came from our parents what

we saw in relation and also what we saw

was going on the estate and how I've

what our friends are doing and stuff and

you know

and the interesting thing about our

estate was

everyone worked all the dads worked most

of the mums had a job and you know there

was a work ethic and a sense of

community I'm not pretending it was

brilliant you know roast into glasses

and stuff

but yeah so you know that you know my

wife often you know jokes that you know

I can't sit around doing nothing I've

always got to be doing something because

I always saw my dad doing something even

if I went on you know the odd day he'd

have off he'd take us to museums take us

to galleries go out on a tour of London

go to Hyde Park so so there's no there

was no

time for doing nothing

um and so it's really and so I it's hard

for me to actually spend down time go to

the theater and just do Leisure or you

know read a book for

for the sake of reading a book and stuff

because you know they were go-getters I

I saw that throughout your story um and

I heard it from some of your colleagues

as well that

and I also heard you say in fact in one

interview where you said that you work

seven days a week

not very healthy

yes and no so

um

I'm very lucky I'm privileged I'm I'm

mayor London

I did a meeting last week with my staff

and my my sort of top staff and I said

to them last week listen

um I would reply for my job

at the next election

in this term we have

475 days left that's now down to four or

six seven days left at the time we're

recording this

we've got to work in the basis but there

is a possibility I'll try my best that

it doesn't happen

the responsibility I will not be

re-elected when I reply for my job

londoners will say no

we've got to use every single day we

have left

every hour we have left to make sure we

maximize

delivering for our city to make it safer

to make it fairer to make it greens make

it more prosperous you can't afford to

waste this time it's a privilege it's a

privilege to what about you though in

your in your family and all the other

things that make life you know worth

living it's not just work right yeah but

but some of the stuff I do is work

without being work I'll give you an

example so I might go and support

uh a theater production my support is

going along to watch it and they can

then amplify it I've been there right

but it's a great night for for my wife

and I or I might do say with with my

daughters and stuff you know but I

recognize that my my wife and daughters

and my mum and my brothers and sisters

and my in-laws

you know have no sacrifices by me doing

my job you know and I'm cognizant of

that and I'm grateful for that you can't

do the job that I'm doing without the

support of your family by the way you

can also do this job I work three days a

week the previous guy did that right you

can do that right but he meant I felt

privileged to do the job I think it's a

privilege and I remember when I was in

government

um I don't remember in 2010

uh the last year I sat around the

cabinet with uh you know Gordon Brown

and the team

and I think there are some incredibly

talented people around that cabinet in

the prime of their game

it's an incredibly talented special

advisors in the prime of their game

we lost the general election

and their Peak years

they're not in government they're not

advising the government

had I known in 2005 when I first became

an MP and had you know Tony and Gordon

sat down with

300 plus MPS and say listen

we've got to maximize these five years

between thousand five thousand and ten

I think things may have been different

because we'd realize it's a privilege

we're going to use every day we have you

know so I'm not criticizing Tony and

going but I'm saying you don't know how

long you've got your job right and so my

views you make the most of it it's time

to rest later on

that's also not guaranteed though right

well you know in terms of Life generally

yeah but you know I love my job I've

I've been lucky to have three big jobs I

was a lawyer for 11 years loved it loved

being loyal I was a parliamentarian and

a minister for 11 years loved it but I'm

neither May I've been the mayor for the

last six and five years and so if you're

lucky enough

to have a job you love and your family

supportive you've got to have a

supportive family my wife is so

supportive she's not just a an

incredible chead she gives me good

advice she pulls me up you know when I

when I bring the arrogance home or I

have delusions of grandeur you know she

makes sure I put the bins out she makes

sure that I'm doing my behaving up

cleaning up and stuff you need that at

home that's sort of you need that sense

of normality home my daughter's Jews I

mean you know they there's no is the

greatest in my house they're both back

home now to finish University they're

both working

um and so they're supportive they

support what I'm doing uh they know I'm

here

um it's your wife and I said to her I

said what are you um what annoys you

about City

because I could tell you what my

girlfriend would say she'd say she said

Stephen is just an hour and a half how

long have you got and uh it's Anonymous

I'm sure there's a long list of stuff I

mean I think I think uh because people

don't get to see that the impact that

being a politician has on the family at

home now this is one of the things I'm

super interested in with all my guests

is

um how they how that then impacts all

the people we don't get to see yeah yeah

it's that's right so what I did at early

stage was I involved uh my office so my

my team mouth is a lot of them are now

my best friends I've worked with them so

long

they know my they're not Sadia and they

know the kids so uh simple things you

know my team will send Sardi in my diary

for the week in advance so that's what

I'm doing the nights I'm out the nights

I'm in which things should be coming

along to and so the family's involved in

that at home we have uh you know on on

the fridge or which tells us who's at

home for walking Luna and so forth and

so we've got it it only works when you

share what you're doing and stuff my

wife's got her own you know she's got

two jobs herself so it only works

if you know everyone's on the same page

it does not work and a lot of my friends

in politics marriage breakups a lot of

my friends in the law marriage breakups

you know all the sorts of problems and

stuff so you've got to have not just

somebody who

you know is supportive of you doing it

but he's an active player and you're

doing it and you've got to make sure

that parts of your work life

are sharing with your home life

there's a couple of conditions we have

at home what is the biggest friction

though that's the question yeah so I

mean we don't have much friction at home

I mean work-life balance is an issue uh

you know me missing another family event

or or may not be able to go to

um

a distant friends or relations social

event but we don't really do friction

I'm trying you know trying to think that

the last time we had

you know starting management so last

Saturday for example uh and I I was

doing something for work and then I

promised to go to and you know party in

Eastbourne uh uh an anniversary party of

a friend and you know and then do same

back in London on Sunday so managing

that with negotiating that with my wife

and my daughters was was quite was Quite

a feat you mentioned you're a lawyer

firm um just just more than a decade

I'm always um I'm always I think the

word is skeptical I've said this to Matt

Hancock when I spoke to him about like

why politicians become politicians

um

you had a great job

you know paid a lot of money you made

the decision to to quit that job very

abruptly and go into politics and become

ultimately a labor MP

why

so so the the the sort of the

qualification to to that question you're

right by the way that's all right is it

was the MP for two tin yep so what I

wasn't going to do is give up my illegal

Korean by the way it was it wasn't just

a great little career but a great future

ahead of me because you know you know

it's just the two of us around the

business very profitable gone from being

you know a business we just employing

eight people to more than 50 while I was

a partner

but the opportunity came to be the MP

for two teen tuition I was born and

raised in literally the MP for tuition

at a guy called Tom Cox had been the MP

my entire life I'd never known any other

MP I'd never been inside the Chamber of

Parliament I didn't know any friends who

were MPS

uh I didn't really know any friends in

politics I don't think I was a counselor

in my spare time uh look at you know

serving the local community

as a lawyer in my spare time I was in my

spare time I was chair of Liberty Human

Rights group you know chair of legal

action group a legal aid charity group

um but the opportunity came to be the

MP4 tutin and you know I couldn't say no

um because you know it was the chance to

represent my community in Parliament and

the way I described at the time because

people saying to me what are you doing

why it just makes sense

was you know I was blessed to have a

good legal career and if I won a case

for my client

uh he or she benefited or if I sell the

case

if the case went to one of the higher

courts we'd said a president Senator

president means that other people

benefit from the president of the case

because you've changed the law

and that's a big deal and you know I was

blessed to do that but when you're in

Parliament and you're part of the

government you can pass legislation or

amend legislation

that affects millions of people uh so

not just people in tutin but people

across our city and our country and

being the MP for two-ton uh was why I

gave up the hill career not to be an mp4

MP's sake to be the MP for tooting

why does that matter to you helping

millions of people it's my it's it's

public service right it's it's the

ability to impact and improve people's

uh lives I could have you know when I

left when I left Law School

gotten worked in the city and you know

being a City lawyer but I chose to do

the law that I chose to do for a variety

of reasons you know it's important for

me to be a lawyer practicing you know

discrimination or you know issues around

police misconduct issues around uh

employment law do litigation sort of

cases that I that I undertook what

motivated me was this issue of acting on

behalf of the underdog

uh being the advocate for people I grew

up with who were routinely you know the

wrong end of the sus law stop and search

people I knew who were unfairly

dismissed uh people who you know I was

aware who had been discriminated against

you know

um acting for the victims of

miscarriages of Justice

um that was important to me why

a number of reasons my inspiration for

being lawyer is uh we read To Kill a

Mockingbird no I wouldn't be Atticus

Finch right well you know we wouldn't be

at Alex's Finch and then and then when I

watched uh when I was growing up this

this program on TV you're too young to

remember it called La law

I wanted to be this local Fuentes Jimmy

Smith's played this lawyer who was doing

this really good cases

but also remember a number of things

happened around that time

where I felt helpless

uh you know the way my dad was treated

in his bus garage the bus garage closing

down felt hopeless we couldn't do

anything about it you know getting a

March is fine but you need to challenge

this in the course if you could if you

couldn't use the use the the court

system you want to change the laws you

know seeing friends Street the way they

were and and I thought

it's not wrong but there's no way of

helping you know people who need help

and being a lawyer is a noble thing I

know people I know lawyers get a bad bad

rep and you know uh some lawyers doing a

lot of money

but people who do the law that I was

doing you know uh don't earn a lot of

money some do and I was very lucky to to

do well but it's important to me public

service to act on behalf of these uh

people who act some power for the person

who's the receiving in a police

misconduct who actually part of the

person who's uh you know discriminated

on the grounds of their race or gender

in the in the workplace so what I got

from that is your dad was I'm trying to

understand the personal reasons why you

chose that path which is like you know

like we've all chosen our past for

for interesting reasons I think a lot of

my path was defined by my own

insecurities as a kid what I've heard

though is your the thing about your

dad's bus

um Depot being shut down that's garage

and then there was some of your friends

in your life had experienced certain

types of abuse that were

um because of the

race or but also mistreatment by the

police

that that was your like personal

motivation right yeah yeah yes so so

those are my experiences my experience

growing up was that you know actually

life isn't always fair and you need

somebody to be there to help you

um and it's never been about

you know it sounds you know uh

Frankly Speaking about you know

wankerish but it's never been about

yourself making money none of my

siblings

have you know following followed paths

which is interesting none of us have

followed paths where it's been about you

know making money for money's sake it's

about doing a job we enjoy

and trying to give someone back where

you can whether it's being a teacher

whether it's being you know a coach or

whatever

over the last 10 years in your own view

which direction do you think London has

gone in as in terms of like safety and

in terms of

um desirability and in terms of world

influence over the last let's say 10

years because it's I think it's my view

that it's it's it's probably gone

in a negative Direction in terms of like

influence safety

um

and yeah I think generally like the

respect of the of the capital

and I think I mean a number of factors

have contributed to that obviously the

pandemic has been a big one but then I

think generally the the knife crime

issue and the safety issues and these

are all things influenced by biases

right because I was when I moved to

London I was burgled really badly 3 A.M

in the morning came in my house stole

everything we never heard anything back

from the police there was no interest in

in helping us so

um but just generally I've lived in

other parts of the world yeah no sure

sure you know I lived in the Middle East

lived in spent time in Dubai's lived in

New York for many many years

um New York's not not necessarily safe

at all but other parts of the world seem

to be much safer and it's funny because

when I speak to some of my um

friends who've been successful in

business and they talk about why they're

leaving the UK it's one of the top three

reasons there's always safety it's

always I don't feel safe in London

before I before before you before we had

this had this conversation I was

listening to um Amir Khan talk about him

being robbed on the High Street in

London coming out a restaurant at

gunpoint you see the footballers the

Arsenal players all being robbed at

knife point on mopeds my girlfriend had

her phone snatched out of her hand while

walking you know and you just think oh

God it's not safe to be in London

first it's already sort of your

experience and I wasn't too distressed

so so if you look at London over the

last uh 10 years the last 20 years even

uh if you parked brexit for a second uh

because we can come back to that in

relation to the impact of brexit on uh

London London is a global City uh uh you

know I don't want to go to various

metrics but it's we're doing incredibly

well as a global City in relation to uh

foreign direct investment

in relation to uh the diversity of

people coming to London in relation to

you know the tourism of London in

relation to retention of talent

uh in relation to the diversity of our

economy it's not just the financial

services Professional Services Legal

Services Life Sciences higher education

um culture Tech so forth so the

underlying strengths are still there and

we are doing incredibly well we punch

well above our weight in relation to the

rest of the country

because of how well we're doing we

contribute roughly speaking every year

net to the treasury at 42 billion pounds

and it's been going up over the period

of time so so we uh you know as a slice

of the national pie contribute far more

but then we're supposed to be remind the

size of our city and it's because we've

managed to attract talent and keep

Talent that's why I'm here yeah but the

reason why I might go is because it's

okay and so and so one of the challenges

we've had post brexit to keep that

Talent here and we can talk about some

of the stuff we've done to keep it in

relation to safety it is a fact and I I

and I'm really sorry for for your

experience uh genuinely Stephen because

I've met too many people like you being

the victims of crime

but I'm afraid the bad news is since

2012 uh and nationally 2013 uh serious

violence has been going up since 2013.

across our country including London

London is not separate from the rest of

the country and feeling the impact

now without excusing criminality and I'm

not excusing those people of burglary

house by the way and I'm not saying this

for their motivation

but there is a link between and crime is

complex causes by the way without

excusing it you know and I believe very

simply you've got to deal with it in two

ways one is to be tough on crime more

pleasing given the support they need to

to make sure they deal with the the

criminals I call it public health

approach and it comes to explain what I

mean on top of the complex causes of

crime in relation to dealing with

underlying causes deprivation poverty

elimination inequality and so forth you

can't escape the fact that since 2010

we've had massive austerity in this

country so there had been 21 000 fewer

police officers across the country in

the last 12 years that is a fact we've

got youth clubs that have closed down

use centers closed down after school

club's not taking place weekend clubs

not taking place uh unemployment's gone

uh High until very recently and so forth

I'm not excusing it I'm explaining it

and so uh you know when I became mayor

one of the things I promised London as I

would do is to be straight with

londoners about the problems in relation

to I was quite clear straight away

saying listen

these Cuts have consequences and we've

got to recognize there were consequences

so I'm going to use the limited powers I

have and raise council tax

that's one lever to bring money in and

use it to pay for more police officers

and I was criticized for doing so but I

had to do it because of your experience

was when I'd heard too many times before

so we've paid for 1300 more officers not

enough but it's what all I can do

there's a limit how much you can raise

council tax to it's a regressive tax

but also use business rates money to

open up youth clubs again youth centers

employee youth workers have summer

schemes we have now 32 000 mentors we're

going to get to 100 000 of the next two

three years mentors are crucial in my

view

and the good news I'm not complacent at

all and Amir Khan's experience was also

awful was the good news is we have

bucked the national Trend so

across the country homicides are going

up in London they're going down we've

reduced homicides knife crime gun crime

10 and shopping science burglary since I

became mayor nowhere near low enough

uh because we've got to invest more in

the police and invest more in the causes

of crime and when I talk about public

health approach Stephen what I mean by

that is this

think of crime as you would a public

health issue what would you do

you deal with the infection you've got

to kill the infection right more police

officers uh you know go to arrest people

you've got to stop the infection

spreading really important we stop you

know the crime spreading people thinking

that you can be successful by being a

criminal we've got to stop it deal with

the gang so forth but stop the infection

occurring in the first place stop the

crime occurred in the first place and

you know uh it's a source of Pride to me

we've not made the progress but our

policies being tough and crime and

invested in the police and we are

reforming the police at the same time

but also invested in young people is

leading to the turnaround in London and

we've backed the national trade in

London and it's a global City sorry as a

global City

uh you speak to as I do regularly the

mayor of New York the mayor of Chicago

the mayor of La those are our

comparators with respect not do you know

it is I just I would just like to feel

really safe

and I I when I go to other places if you

go to a somewhere in the middle east or

Dubai or whatever it might be you feel

exceptionally safe

you know so it's like to be honest I

went to Indonesia I was Indonesia a

couple of weeks ago I was in Bali I said

to my girlfriend I said you could leave

you could leave your wallet on the floor

here and it would still be there an hour

later when you come back you do that in

London

you know not only have you lost your

wallet you probably come back you've

lost your shoes or something you know

like and I just it's all sucks so great

charity generosity and you know

londoners aren't quite all quite like

that Stephen I don't think they feel

safe I don't think people feel safe

enough and more so if you're Auburn or a

girl if you think you don't feel safe

one of the big challenges that we've got

is making sure that women and girls feel

safe is this all solvable in your view

without doubt we saw in the hell we saw

in the uh 2000s uh you know uh between

997

and uh you know the mid-naughties huge

progress made in reducing crime uh and

it was dealing with the two things that

I said you've got to be tough and crime

top of the causes you're invest in

policing but also invest in dealing with

the causes of uh a policing definitely

solvable we've made progress uh in the

past we're making progress in London uh

and now we've got to make sure at the

same time of course you know we reform

the police we'll publicize issues in uh

policing London has got to be the eyes

in the Years there are some amazing

citizens in London who you know would

return the wallet to you uh you know if

you left it you know if you'd lost it or

left around in London we'll report

something taking place we'll come

forward if they're a witness of crime

we'll come forward and support the

police that are victim of a crime we'll

join the Police Service these problems

are definitely solvable uh we've done it

in the past we're doing it now and with

the possibility you know in the not

distant future of a you know changing

government and a government that invests

in public services it definitely

solvable

on the one of the points you made there

about the infection spreading I thought

was quite compelling I was reading about

the the story of um I think it's hars

rat Wally

the story of an 18 year old guy who was

in Twickenham was approached by a 16

year old kid ended up being stabbed to

death by Within 18-inch knife because he

got into an argument with this person

and when that 16 year old that stabbed

him to death was asked he said he

stabbed him because

he was people in his life had been

um victims of knife crime and he he

thought he was scared that

hazrat would have a knife himself that's

the infection you're talking about yes

basically what happens is

um

some young people that I speak to

um will think the way to be safe is to

carry a knife because

they suspect you might be carrying knife

right

and so we've got to get the message

across that you know leaving it home

with a knife doesn't make you more safe

it makes you less safe

so if you go to a primary school not not

a secondary school a primary school

uh across the country by the way

and you have a classroom of 30 people

and you say how many of you

know somebody

carrying the knife

you'll be shocked the number of hands

that go up in a primary school right

uh secondary school is even higher and

so there is this belief amongst young

people

that Karen the life makes you more safe

not less safe and by the way I went to a

tough Secondary School lots of fights

nobody even thought about taking a knife

to school right or getting involved with

knives at all and you know

um so we've got to deal with that issue

at source

to make sure young people understand the

dangers so we're going to school

speaking to young people people with

credibility you've got to have somebody

who's the message carrier needs to be

somebody who kids respect and will

listen to right and so getting people to

go into schools to explain the dangers

sometimes it's a bereaved mum and

bereaved mum can be really effective in

explaining the story about her son tends

to be boys about her son and the dangers

of carrying the knife so we're going to

stop it at source we've also going to

make sure Frankly Speaking that there's

intelligence-led stop and search because

if you're covering the knife I want you

to be stopped and searched if you've got

a knife taken off you I would bet

progress in taking knives off people

which is saving life's weapon sweeps is

really important but also if you're

caught having the knife there's got to

be serious sentences there's got to be a

consequence of you carrying that knife

but you know and that's why we're gonna

have these conversations that's why it's

the public health approach and it is

leading to you know huge reductions you

know over the last year we've had a 55

reduction in doing homicides not enough

one is one too many

uh you know a few homicides last year

then when I first became uh mayor not

enough but we're making progress because

the investment is now starting to pay

dividends in relation to youth clubs

youth work going into schools more

police officers there was a there was a

big drop in knife crime wasn't there um

was it 2020 would I say

so is that the pandemic so the pandemic

we saw a reduction a number of reasons

obviously for three months people but

there was a lockdown and stuff but and

those that progress we've carried on but

it's starting to go down before the

pandemic uh we first started investing

in it's called the Young londoners Fund

in about 20 18 19 but it takes some time

to get youth workers back employed you

centers back open and also young people

starting to have these points landed on

them uh it's not there's not you know

light bulb moment it's going to take

time spend time with them that's why

mentors are so important the reason I

made the point at the beginning Stephen

about about you as a role model is you

know I'm a firm believer and you can't

you can't be if you can't see it right I

was lucky I was lucky that I saw at home

my mum working really hard my dad

working really hard my Big Brother's

working really hard I draw models a lot

of young people haven't got that role

model at home the youth worker is their

role model a youth worker is an amazing

asset to a young person if you've not

got the role model at home in relation

to a big brother a friend somebody you

can ring up somebody give you careers

advice you know a lot of young people

don't have to put up a tie right they

had to shave I can't go for a job

interview those soft skills we're

teaching young people now you may think

why are you teaching young people as

soft skills because they need those soft

skills right well knife crimes up since

last year though isn't it no it's gone

down so basically knife grounds knife

ground's gone down since I became mayor

uh homicides comes down since last year

no robberies got off a bit Robert's got

off about for a number of reasons uh

we're dealing with the uh um yeah uh a

robberies when you're up yeah out and

about okay robbery sorry robbery's

burglary with violence right

um my last question on that topic is do

you think London's safe uh well

I asked that question by your answer if

you don't feel it's safe it's not safe

right and so do you feel it safe

yeah I do because my comparator isn't

with respect Bali

or ordered by my comparatories New York

Chicago

um those cities because we are a global

City Stephen uh you know we're not we're

not Cheshire right and so you know but

but if it's not safe for you it's not

safe for me I speak to too many women

and girls they say it's not safe I speak

to too many women in particular who say

they're imposing a curfew in themselves

not to go at night time because they

don't feel safe in that case it's not

safe I speak to too many

um you know people who are worried about

their safety and you know perception is

is important here because it's fear of

crime that you're talking about because

of your experience right uh and you'll

speak to your friends and not reasonably

that they'll be apprehensive and scared

so it's a problem for me as we've got to

address it women and girls there's been

um a lot of

talk recently about instances of police

officers who have attacked

raped with women and girls on the

Streets of London

what are you doing about that to prevent

that happening going forward

so in the last few years has been at

last

publicity given to the fact that every

three days across our country a woman is

killed at the hands of a man every three

days

that's a sobering fact

recently we've seen not just the tragic

murders of Sarah everard

um you know Zara Alina you know Bieber

and Nicole uh you know and many others

Sabina Nessa but also we've seen people

who we entrust to keep us safe

peace officers police officers

the people we go to and we're the

victims of crime

being involved in the most serious

crimes possible

Sarah everard

was abducted by a man using his Warren

card raped and killed by serving police

officer

we had David Carrick somebody who'd been

a police officer for almost 20 years we

discovered throughout most of his 20

years

had been a prolific sexual offender used

in the fact he's a police officer to

commit some of those crimes

but also it appears there are

opportunities for the police

during the vetting process

to find out this guy was a criminal and

not just stop him being a police officer

but take action against him

my view that I've been making clear for

a number of years now and I've been

criticized for this

is I think there are sustaining cultural

issues in the Police Service one of the

reasons why ultimate has come ultimately

lost confidence in the previous

commissioner

was my lack of belief in her ability to

understand this as an issue have a plan

to address this I have a plan to impact

the trusted confidence of londoners

and so

we've got to make sure we have a

reforming commissioner doing this job

unless the guy at the top or the woman

at the top understands the problem how

you're going to fix it I think the new

commissioner and his Deputy understand

there's a problem and I've got a plan to

fix it

they're taken on board the

recommendations from an outsider you

can't Mark your own homework you need

somebody else

to look into things

tell you how bad things are make

recommendations and follow them through

so we've got an outsider Louise Casey

talking to us going on in the Met Police

Service she's published an interim

report

the Commissioners accepted all the

findings she will now publish her final

report later on this year we need to

change the rules around how police

officers are employed so if a member of

your staff had a nickname

the bastard if I would raise questions

for you right why is this guy's nickname

amongst his colleagues the bastard

or other nicknames that police officers

involved in this stuff have had no

action taken against them because

it's very difficult for

commission and others to get rid of

dodgy officers the regulations make it

difficult

one asking necessarily in all cases for

criminal prosecution we're asking for

those officers to be at least sacked

so we're lobbying the government to

change the regulations to make it easier

for the commission to get rid of dodgy

officers we've set up a hotline for

people can ring in and police officers

can ring in about dodgy Behavior other

officers

from City Hall without government

support from City Hall were investing

more money in ramping up the vetting

processes right this guy should have

been spotted a mile away I've also asked

the commissioner he's well it was his

idea to be fair to go back 10 years and

look at every single time a police

officer has had a complaint made against

them of this nature to see if any other

opportunities missed with other officers

we've also got a new unit which we're

invested in an anti-abuse and Corruption

unit but my view is this by the way in

London

we've shown a spotlight on this but

there are other police forces around the

country

where you know I'm sure there are other

issues where that spotlight's not been

shown yet and so it's really important

for us to recognize these systemic

cultural issues across our country that

demand addressing

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episode

what's been your hardest day as London

mayor

there's been a few I think grunfeld

Tower

that

I still remember the images that's

remember the Heat

I went to a lot of funerals

um that summer was

that someone was hard I still I'm still

touched with the families that I see

them often

and whenever I see them

it comes back my grandfather was just

it was just and it still it still sticks

with me because it it could have been us

it's councilor State diverse estate

lovely community

those families will not be the same

again

um

and every time I go there

and I spend time with the families

you just you just think what these

families are going through

your one family six people wiped out uh

another 11 year old child

who'd want to asset competition

and you know when you speak to those who

were the judges she would have gone on

to being you know this amazing woman

lost their life in that fire and so that

2017 was hard because we also had at the

same time the orphan grenfell

and a number of Terror attacks in London

uh London Bridge uh Westminster Bridge

uh Finsbury Park

um

that some was harder you know because I

spent a lot of time I I like I like I

liked I think it's important

for me to spend time with brief families

so when I was an MP when I was a lawyer

I spent a lot of time brief animals my

clients when I was an MP there was ever

you know a homicide in TuneIn

I would meet the families asking me the

families when I became may I started a

practice where

Whenever there was a homicide in London

my office would write to the family and

say look obviously give my condolences

but give them my details and meet with

the families

and so after grunfell uh you know into a

lot of funerals a lot of families and

and those families stories

stay with you and I'm still in contact

with a lot of them

but that summer

um

June 2017

you referenced the London Bridge attacks

as well where I think three men in a van

mounted the sidewalk then jumped out

with knives and killed I think eight

people in total in um

borough borough Market

when you see this happening you're at

home right 10 p.m at night you're

watching the Telly you see this

happening

what goes on in your head

so just just to reassure people watching

so we do a lot of preparation a lot of

blood practice a lot of planning on

those sorts of things so you see try

and and

you're never ready for it but you try to

do what you can in advance to understand

it because I'm not a police officer I'm

not an nmo5

I'm not counter-terror but I'm the

police around commissioner so I need to

understand what you're doing so so I can

understand your job and so I I've always

tried to understand what you're doing so

I can be at help not hindrance

and so when it happens there's a lot of

uncertainty in real time what's going on

but the good news is

our police and other partners are

trained for the phrases

a marauding terrorist uh the phrase for

it uh there's training for it and and we

learn from other countries when this

happens so

uh the first time this sort of uh Terror

tactic was used that's well known about

was in Delhi a number of years ago so

our police have learned what's happened

there and so we practice a lot of this

stuff in relation to

what what the Firearms team will do in

the situation

what the police response will do what my

role is going to be where I should be

and so forth

and and also you've got to give

Assurance to londoners you can't play

into the terrorist hands what does

terrorist want you to do a terrorist

wants to terrorize you and have Panic

spreading changing behavior in a way

that's perverse and so forth so it's

really important the response I have to

a terror attack because I could

inadvertently be playing into the hands

of the terrorists well there's a motion

come into all of this you're seeing

you know

Carnage you're seeing death

you is there a place for emotion in all

of that in real time there really can't

be in real time there can't be for and

that sort of stuff there can be when it

comes to a foreign

sort of thing but but because people are

looking to you to provide leadership

and panic doesn't isn't good leadership

and so one of the reasons why you know

I've asked for when we've had the

practice the preparation the planning is

to make sure there isn't panic and there

isn't emotion because you've got to make

rational decisions and provide

reassurance in a core calm waste you

know you can't go to a cobra meeting and

be historical you've got to explain the

facts what you've ascertained what

you're going to do

what buses are going to be diverted what

tube's going to be stopped you know and

so forth another important thing in

London in that sort of context Stephen

is we can't afford to happen is

reprisals right people wrongly thinking

every Muslim is a terrorist we saw in

America

Post 9 11 you know somebody were in a

turban attacked and killed because

people thought wrongly it was involved

in terrorism in 911 so this that part of

British law in the community community

tensions as well after that incident

happened

um Donald Trump came out and made some

disparaging comments about

about my guess about about you in London

um really kind of mocking what you'd

said

how do you feel about that is it I mean

it's I mean from my point of view it's

an incredibly bizarre behavior for a

wild leader to be taking such a stance

after it's such a tragedy but how did

how did that feel on that day

emotionally

it was odd let me see what I saw it

there's basically an understanding we

have there are certain cities and

certain parts of the world are targets

of terrorists because of our values

because of our way of life and so forth

and you so there's a there's a

solidarity

we saw happen in Paris

uh you know you know we saw it up in 911

right uh and there are other examples

around the world in Manchester the awful

you know events of the Ariana Grande

concert and so forth and so there's

always a sense of solidarity and you'll

you'll see world leaders you know Mayors

and others Sending message of solidarity

and it's unusual it's exceptional

actually

for particularly our closest Ally right

special relationship you saw our primary

prime minister response to 911 you know

Tony Blair George Bush

and you have Donald Trump

responding the way he he does and let's

be frank you know if the mayor of London

wasn't you know somebody of

you know my background my faith and so

forth and he didn't have the views he

had about people of my faith and my

background he wouldn't respond to the

way he did would he has that has that

played a role in how people have treated

you in terms of on the other side of the

aisle people have political views do you

think some of you know I'm reflecting

now on much of what Meghan Markle said

about how like the institutional how

claims about institutional racism

impacting the way she was treated by the

press and by by the institution itself

but but when I think about you being

you know probably Britain's most famous

Muslim

um

you are the mayor of London do you

believe that there has been instances

and there are just generally a bias

because you are a Muslim yourself

and how does that rear its head on like

a day-to-day month-to-month basis

well looking backwards I mean I'm sure

you've read about the uh my first

election campaign in 2016 right my faith

was used against me by my opponents uh

you know you kind of a must remember

links with terrorism so forth and so

forth for no other reason but because of

to be frank my faith right

um and that's why it's so important to

win because had I not won if you're an

Asian or a Muslim or whatever you're

thinking hold on a sec it's not possible

to be the Maryland because you're afraid

that holds you back and that's why

winning was important

for a variety of other reasons as well

but you know the thing about our city

is not understanding the prejudices

against the religion that I practice

because a minority of terrorists do bad

things use the name of Islam

this city voted for not just an ethic

minority

or just a religious minority but the

religion he belongs to is Islam it's

this thing wonderful about our city not

just tolerating difference respect and

embracing and celebrating it as well but

I can't escape the fact that you know

being a Muslim

when we're living in a climate of

islamophobia

has challenges as well it's it's not a

secret it's not I'm not diverging any

breaches of you know National Security

the Christchurch shooter in New Zealand

you know referenced me in his in his

diatribe the Finsbury Park terror terror

terrorist

you know reference me uh in his

terrorist attack in Finsbury uh park

outside uh the mosque you know I'm not

I'm not giving equivalence to Donald

Trump in relation to terrorists but

Donald Trump

for a period of time was obsessed with

me and so that leads to you go to social

media some of the stuff that I get on

social media right uh you go to uh some

of the far-right groups some of the

stuff I received there some of the

you know in Virtual Commons mainstream

journalists who use me as clickbait they

know if they use my name it's going to

attract traffic to their social media

channels they know that and because

you're a Muslim but of course it is

right because we know

that there's a currency there's a

currency right uh you know and we know

for reasons that you know you know

aren't fair to Muslims the vast fast

fast majority

yeah who live in the west love the West

uh Laura Biden and so forth but the

actions of a small minority means we're

all labeled we're all demonized and so I

was reading the independent and it was

they were talking about the death

threats you'd received on social media

you'd come out and talked about some of

the comments that people had made to you

calling you a

um words that I probably can't even

repeat and I won't repeat to be fair

um but very derogatory racist uh

homosexual at times terminology towards

you which oftentimes included death

threats

um the independent had written an

article showing what those those threats

were have you ever felt like your safety

was at risk yeah it's been a few times

yeah yeah uh uh and that's one of the

reasons why you know and I have pleased

protection not because I asked for it

for a year I said no

and in the end

my wife and my chief of staff said

you've got to take it because

two reasons because if I'm out with my

family their personal safety is being

compromised right uh I can't have that

uh if I'm out with my staff working

the person said he's being compromised

and I'm not willing to take that risk

either and so uh you know there'd be in

specific threats

but the problem with police protection

is it means you lose your spontaneity so

you know I came here by tube uh I'm not

you know the police officers on on the

tube with me right you wouldn't know

they were there you know um and so forth

but they've got to be with me when I go

to a restaurant when I go to the cinema

and I'm walking my dog when I'm getting

the tube right and so like it restricts

my ability to just you know have you

ever been

genuinely worried about your safety a

couple of times yeah there's an occasion

where uh yeah there's been a number of

occasions I probably I don't want to

give them the credit by making them know

that I was scared and worried about my

safety because you know they'll think

they can do it again but there have been

occasions even with police protection

about Proxima Berlin you know but I've

asked them to just you know keep a

distance because I don't want them to be

next to me like I mean I'm a celebrity

or the Prime Minister you know I I like

the fact that I'm a normal Joe uh and I

try and be as much as I I can but there

have been times yeah of course they have

um

uh as mere but there have been times

I've been more of a security before I

was me you know when you know and you

know and that's

you know you know 911 was traumatic for

a variety of reasons thousands of people

lost their lives it was just awful what

it did though was it gave it gave

permission for people to treat all of us

you know in a way that I'd not

experienced before so when I was growing

up

the p word the N word the W word

sometimes used

and you know

my white friends black friends and me

knew that was that was like that was we

see the Red Mist and they'd be fine

right you couldn't yeah and but

it was never about faith and I'm not

saying one is better than the other and

stuff right but something happened

where

um it became about faith uh and the

islamophobia stuff uh and there is still

a great sense of solidarity in relation

to people who still defend me who aren't

Muslims and stuff right

what it does is a number of things

firstly if you're a mum or dad and

you're you know and you're Muslim and

your son was thinking about Korean

politics or public life you say you know

what

if someone likes that he can't get in

that sort of stuff

I don't really want you to get involved

in politics or and this happens a lot if

you're somebody who is wants to amplify

my social media or be supportive

and you do it and then you get this

diatribe of hate because you've done

that there's two responses

a 9 out of ten people say I had no idea

that you received this stuff how can I

help

I'm one out of 10 people say you know

what

this is a bit too much you know I'm not

I'm not gonna actually has it ever

affected you personally

um sleepless nights

in relation to

hate abuse I worry about my I want to

make sure my wife and kids are safe for

me I'll make sure they're safe

um

at the moment I've got the you know I'm

I'm lucky I've got a police protection

team keeping me safe right

um but we you know the City Halls you

know receives threats and you know so

this where this ridiculous situation

where because of the hatred against me

people are writing letters and emails to

City old staff who in the previous 16

years

haven't had this we've had enough since

2000 and we would now provide our staff

and this isn't objective the rejected

space that's receiving hatred but we've

got a duty appear to our staff right our

staff are traumatized upset all the rest

of it so we're now going to support our

staff in ways never done before so that

keeps that worries me the fact they've

impacted my staff reading this stuff the

emails

uh reading the letters that come in the

image of my staff reading the social

media the impacts of my family reading

this uh uh stuff I'm not going to allow

anybody to change my behavior I will not

cower but also I will not let you know

if you're bullying me but I feel it so

even if I was being affected and I'm not

I wouldn't tell the guys that I'm being

affected because it gives them it gives

them Solace it gives them Comfort it

means they've won I'm not going to do

that but but in this kind of medium I

think there is value in Sharing showing

those sharing that because people don't

realize right so it's it's a world that

we don't know so we don't care about so

we don't as a society do anything about

because we don't even know it exists I

mean much of what you've said is news to

me the fact that you're telling me your

staff need

I'm presuming psychological support

because of the amount of abuse you're

getting and at the heart of that is your

your religion

and you race

so often

other things will come into it but you

just have to read just just when you get

a chance you know it's not good for your

mental health but when you get a chance

you just have a look at some of the

stuff that that people say about me and

it's not all Bots by the way but it has

infected you because I can tell you I've

had abuse targeted me and it affected me

and I don't mind saying that because I

think it's just it's just the truth to

be fair so has it ever

has there ever been you know

anxiety worries no no it's affecting me

in the sense that you know I've spoken

to

social media companies and others about

the responsibility they have about their

algorithms about you know employing

staff to take the stuff off

you know my staff not me I reported some

of this stuff to the police and actually

in particularly at some of the people

who've said some of this stuff because

the assignment elements of uh I think

there are issues here

about the ease with which uh social

media allows people with hateful

spiteful racist criminal views have

those views Amplified where they weren't

20 years ago so 20 years ago 30 years

ago so when I was growing up right you

could only bully me if you saw me in a

playground or if you saw me down the

street you could call me names that way

you could maybe write me a letter if you

knew where I lived

now you can do it from your bedroom

without even being in the same city as

me the same country as me anonymously

anonymously as well and some of these

algorithms amplify this and and some of

these people have got big followings and

they all jump in the bandwagon uh as

well and so you know there is a problem

there in relation to how we deal with

this stuff but also listen it's

happening to you speak to

a girl in a secondary school some of the

stuff she now will receive so you know

you know black is going to school now

in their bedroom on social media right

and so you know this is not just an

issue for me I don't want anybody to

feel sorry for me but it's an issue for

everybody for everyone covid speaking of

mental health I heard you said that

during the covered period you you did

suffer a little bit with your own mental

health can you give me some detail on

what you mean by that yeah look before

we came I know we're talking about you

know return to the office and stuff and

I'm somebody who by the way you don't

realize this at the time

so I'm somebody who I now realize

thrives on working with people being

around people uh on company right and I

didn't really appreciate that until the

pandemic

uh and I'm lucky I've got a decent sized

home my my daughters came up from

University

my wife we got on really well we do you

know and so we can give each other space

and stuff and so I've got a garden we've

got a dog

but I realized

there was a

there wasn't a light bulb moment

but I

but on hindsight I realized

I stopped shaving you know I you know I

burnt jogging Bobs all day

uh I I wasn't as communicative

um of course I'd shave if I was doing

you know morning breakfast shows or

whatever

uh I'll I didn't have my mojo I'd like

to think that I can Inspire my team I I

you know you know you know it's like

when you you manage people right

I didn't I just didn't I just I I was

saying not quite right and I couldn't

I didn't know that in real time I didn't

you know

but they were saying and and on

hindsight what I realized was

that there were things I did

in my normal life

that gave me mental Fitness and it was

not a physical fitness mental Fitness

right

and because I wasn't doing those

I was suffering mental ill health now I

fortunately I needed to be medicalized

but it meant I had to think about the

things I want to do

to keep mental my mental health well and

I struggled and on hindsight

there was a period of time where

I I wasn't top of my game uh because I

now am and because you know after a

while I realized this and was taking

steps to address that

and I realized I can't

work from home in perpetuity I I need to

be around people I need that buzz

whether it's the banter on the tube

whether it's meeting my staff whether

it's that conversation before I go into

the office the team meeting

I didn't realize

that's what helps me

keep my mental health but also makes me

you know be effective and it's other

things you know sport I didn't realize

how important sport is to me I didn't

realize not playing tennis not going for

a run

not playing football I didn't realize

that because I thought I did have to

keep I thought I did that to keep

physically fit not realizing actually

it's an internal part in my mental

well-being when you when you think about

your your job as mayor over the last you

know

since you were elected mayor where where

do you think you've let yourself down

[Music]

well that's a good question

um I think I think you alluded to this

early on but the seven days a week stuff

when you speak to most experts and I

speak lots of privilege you know

speaking to you speak lots of people who

they said that they say that's really

important to get the balance right in

relation to

being fresh for the time we've got to be

on my response is I'm on quite a lot uh

so I've got to use a time when I'm off

to make sure I recharge on batteries

and so I think that pacing myself you

know I've tried to run a marathon as a

Sprint what about policies things you

would have liked to have gotten done but

you've not been able to get done a lot

of people have leveled the you know

things like housing and will we be

carbon neutral by 2030

um what are the things you look at and

go do you know I failed there yeah well

I'm not gonna answer that question

honestly when I'm running for election

in 467 days time right because the

answer is going to use against me but

let me tell you something we've got

we've done lots of right as well as to

suffered a vlog I think the biggest

thing is that like a real thing where

you can't tell the truth because someone

might use it against you actually I

think the thing that I've been at least

effective about and I've said this

before is is uh by that we've not

managed to play the government the

importance of developing more powerful

resources to London the governments

my dad used to say that you know you

should judge somebody about the friends

you keep right I've got a different I've

got a different saying which is Judge

Somebody by their enemies

you know and the government don't like

me right and so the politics is the main

reason and so the government

and I think I've I've sometimes not

helped because of my pugilistic nature

and I I I I worry

have London has been let down because

the government see me as an enemy not

giving London the support they would

give if somebody else was the mayor and

so I've tempered you know since I won

re-election I've tempered some of that

because I realized I can't allow my my

natural adversarial nature my dislike of

the government to get in the way of

doing business with the government so

that's that's the honest answer but by

the way I meant what I said about this

when you said tongue-in-cheek well can

you not be honest yeah because I'm still

in the game right so when you ask a next

politician

questions like that they'll give you a a

candid answer but you can't exactly look

it's not asking ask us Tyson what's the

weakness in your game what what you know

you you wouldn't do that I'm not

sometimes in Fury uh but I'm still on

top of my game it's really interesting I

I partly think it's an interesting game

politics and and all this stuff but a

game it's not a game you just said

you're still in the games I'm using your

word but it's an interesting game to me

because I don't feel like politicians

can ever be truly themselves they can't

truly speak their mind and I am part I

wonder if that's actually acting against

them I think there's almost this

political kind of

um this political I don't know

philosophy or whatever where you kind of

have to be a little bit cagey you kind

of have to never really answer a

question you kind of have to to get by I

said no so to his credit Trump the thing

he did and I hate to say Trump did

anything well but the thing he did you

know what you're getting with this guy

whether it's good bad driven by

narcissism whatever

you have this sense that he's telling

you what he thinks I've got at least 17

responses to them let me give you a

couple

so one is which is interesting is I

think Trump's one of Trump's tweets that

he said against me was hashtag

Stone Cold loser describing me right

well he lost his re-election I didn't

true right so he's a one-time president

right Barack Obama isn't even George W

bush isn't do you think about it

uh he's gonna try come back uh he's got

a good chance I think DeSantis will

probably get the Republican nomination

I'm coming back honestly

uh well I wanted to come back and be

beaten so yeah so I think I think

politics uh you know the reason why I

said about you know I'm still in the

game is because it's a good metaphor

because I I you know I learned a lot

from Sports I love sports and stuff and

a lot of leadership skills I get from

sports but let me tell you why why

you're both right and wrong in relation

to your observation which I think is I

think is is right and it's wrong

so when you're an MP I think you're

right I think most MPS

have got to be inauthentic on Ty because

in Parliament

a thing called Collective responsibility

and you've got to stay in your lane for

a start so if you're a transport

minister

you can really enter that transport

because if I review about health it'll

it'll annoy the health secretary

or if I've got a view about foreign

policy or health effect it'll upset the

foreign secretary right

orb the budget and so you've got to stay

in your lane which is which is a

frustration because you've got to stand

by the policies they've got in their

other areas right it's going to be

inauthentic

um but also this thing called collect

responsibility so inside the cabinet

what happens is

if there's a good strong prime minister

there'll be an argument and discussion

inside cabinet about policy

you can have a different view you can be

honest then

once you reach a view when you leave the

cabinet all of you

have on a defend that view and be

Advocate with you and that's why you're

spot on so and it reminds me being a

lawyer I that I've got to say hand on