Pay attention. Pain plus reflection

equals progress. And from that

principle, my company became the largest

hedge fund in the world.

>> Managing how much?

>> 150 billion dollars. But I learned that

history of things that never happened in

my lifetime before were important things

to understand in order to predict the

future. And we can get into that if you

want.

>> Please. So Ray Dalio is the legendary

billionaire investor

>> who decoded the cycles of human history

to predict financial crashes, build the

world's largest hedge fund, and now to

warn us about what lies ahead. Are you

optimistic about the future of the UK?

No. What about the United States? No.

Why? Okay. In order to bet on what's

going to happen on the global economy, I

learned that there's five big forces

that create a big cycle that's repeated

through history, which lasts about 80

years. The first is the money debt force

that creates wealth and opportunities

gaps. And it's connected to the second

force, the internal conflict where you

don't trust the system, causing wars

between the left and the right. And it's

not easy answers like tax the rich. And

we can get into that. But the third is

geopolitical force. In other words,

international conflict. Then there's

acts of nature. And then number five is

man's inventiveness, particularly of new

technologies. Now, the question is who

wins the technology war because the

winner of that determine how the new

world order works. Is it something to be

concerned about?

>> No. The question is how you as an

individual handle it. How do I as an

individual handle it? So there's

building your financial strength,

flexibility, importance of being

open-minded, and how to get more out of

the minute, not how to work harder. And

I really urge your audience to learn all

of this. So, first of all,

I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double-check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double-check if you subscribed. And

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you.

Ray,

I I want to describe to you who's

listening right now. And the question I

have for you is what is the most

important thing that this persona of

person should be thinking about at the

highest level right now. So, the the

person that's listening is someone who

is intent on improving their life.

They're they're really interested in

business, potentially starting their own

business. They they care about where

they're investing their their time and

energy, and also where they're setting

up their home based on in terms of

geography.

They are aspiring to accomplish some

goal. They're probably between the age

of 18 and

50 predominantly.

And they are very very interested in

understanding what's happening in the

world that feels incredibly

scary,

fast-paced, and uncertain at the moment.

This is a very difficult question. But

if anyone I was going to ask anyone, it

would have to be you.

What what's one of the first things they

should be considering at this moment to

safeguard their future, their family,

their finances? I don't think it's a

difficult question. I um

I think it's it's very clear. They have

to understand how the life cycle works.

Okay. They have to understand how it

works. We were just talking before and

and on the book and there was the arc of

the life cycle, right? And you have to

understand that you're on an adventurous

journey, okay? And you have a certain

nature,

you know, those qualities that make make

you have your preferences and so on. And

then you're going after the things that

you like and you're learning and it's

going to have the ups and downs and so

on. And how you approach that. So, you

asked from the higher level if I'm

looking down, you know, like that life

cycle, that arc, what's that journey

like?

How do you approach it? You know, what

are your principles? How do you even

learn how to approach it? That's why

we're having these conversations, right?

So, that's clear.

You know, what's your nature?

How's the journey?

How do you find the path that's suitable

to your nature?

And then you'll go down that path and

you'll discover

and you'll evolve.

What's that like? That's what they need

to know. You said what's your nature.

What do you mean by nature?

>> People are born with and then also their

environment creates their different

nature, you know? We have our

preferences, our inclinations. We think

in a certain way. You chose to be

entrepreneurial, okay? You're living out

your nature, okay? This isn't for

somebody else. You know, some people

have a different nature, okay? They

would like to have the stability of a

job and clarity and so on. So, when you

have your nature, you want to know that

and then find the path that is going to

be good for your nature. Then there's

the particular tactical stuff. So, if

you would ask me, should I be in the UK

or should I be in the US? Well, that

depends on a lot of things, but that's a

tactical question. So, if I want to be

an entrepreneur and I want to build a

technology company, do you think I

should be in the UK or the US? I think

you should be in the US. Why? The US has

a culture of

um entrepreneurship, inventiveness.

There's a whole different culture like

in Europe, generally speaking, and in

and and in the UK. There's an

establishment culture, right? And it

here um you could be 25, have a blue

streak in your hair, and have the

talent, but if you got the talent to

pull it off, you can get the resources

and you can be an entrepreneur. It's

There's a culture of that that means

that it's happening more. That's why you

even see the differences in the

economies, okay? Where is the

inventiveness really happening? Okay?

It's happening here. So, I would say if

you want to be an entrepreneur, this is

an environment that's particularly

conducive to being an entrepreneur.

So, what is your honest perspective

about the UK at the moment? The UK has a

financial problem. Uh the government has

a debt problem. It doesn't have enough

money for what it wants to do and what

it can do. And so, what you see is the

non-dom problem, people moving, and so

and so forth. And throughout history,

when you have these sorts of things,

then there's great clashes in people,

okay? And the UK has been in decline

since the war.

Even the development of the capital

markets, can you raise capital there?

All of these things are much worse

than they are in the United States.

And it leads to clashes, as you said. Of

course, you know, there are five big

forces

that create a big cycle

that lasts

about 80 years, give or take 50, let's

say. And the five big forces are There's

a money

debt economy force, okay? Debts are

spending power. So, what happens is when

you give somebody credit, they can

spend.

And then but it also produces debt. And

debt has to be paid back. And so, what

happens is if there's not enough income

to pay back the debt,

then you have

um debt rising relative to income. It

squeezes out spending. People don't want

to hold the debt assets and so on. The

UK is going through that and has gone

through that and it's connected to the

second force. And we're all going

through this in varying degrees. The

second force is the internal political

and social

force. In other words, like between the

left and the right with wealth gaps and

opportunities gaps. We have big wealth

and opportunities gaps. So, when you

have big wealth and opportunities gaps,

there's conflict. Okay, conflict between

the left and the right. And when you get

to the situation where you don't believe

the system is working for you and you

don't trust the system, then there are

wars. There are internal conflicts

over over that and so on. So, the third

force is the geopolitical force. In

other words,

there's a cycle that usually goes from

one big war to another big war. So, the

last war ended in 1945,

'44, and we began a new order in 1945.

And the way that works is that the

winners of the war determine how the

world order works.

They draw borders. They say, "Here's how

it's going to work." And that's the new

order, okay? And that continues until

there's a rising power challenging an

existing power in the existing world

order, which typically is deteriorating

at that time. And then you have

international conflict, okay? These

orders, there's a monetary order, they

all break down. There's an in- internal

political order, they all break down.

And and there's a geopolitical order.

They all have this conflict and they

work together. The fourth force it

throughout history has been acts of

nature. Droughts, floods, and pandemics,

for example, have killed more people

than wars.

And acts of nature Nature has a big

effect. And then number five force is

man's inventiveness, particularly of new

technologies.

Okay? Because if you see that

inventiveness, that has raised per

capita incomes, GDP per capita, any

measures of the living standards over a

period of time and and so on. But it is

also related to the first four that I

said. Those four four forces interact.

Now, when we go back to your UK case,

okay, they have a financial problem.

They and almost every country now is

dealing with more of that internal

political problem.

For the same reasons. Wealth gaps,

opportunities gaps, what do we do, who's

got the power, I don't trust the system

kind of thing. Okay, number three is we

are certainly in an international great

powers conflict, right? And it certainly

affects Europe and the UK as we're

dealing with not only the Ukraine

situation, but the Russian situation.

And what does that mean? And that

relates to the money thing because,

okay, where's the money coming from to

have defense or military expenditures

and so on and so forth. So, that

matters, right? The geopolitical

matters, climate certainly matters, and

then of course technology, man's

inventiveness.

So, everything can be looked through at

through that lens.

And so, what does this mean for the UK

if all other countries are going through

this as well? Doesn't it just mean that

all countries are going to suffer

equally? No, no, no, because they're not

all equal. Okay, some are more in debt

than others. Okay, some people are more

willing to hold their debt than others.

Some means they they have more

resources, some are bigger and more

powerful, some are less powerful.

They're different, okay? They're all

going in different conditions. Some

countries have surpluses, some

countries, you know, are not in the

middle of where they're just having a

war.

Are you optimistic about the the future

of the UK at the moment?

No.

No.

Because it has high debt, it has the

social internal conflict, it has it's

affected by the geopolitical factors.

And in terms of inventiveness, it

doesn't have the culture

that other countries have like like the

US.

>> Is that it?

>> Yes, the cult culture and the capital

markets to support that at a scale that

it needs to be supported to play

seriously in the game. And for anyone

that doesn't know what capital markets

mean, basically the invest markets,

isn't it a simple way of saying

>> Well, I mean, it gets you the money. In

other words, you're a guy behind, you

know, what happens is

um

we have to enable people.

Okay, what what works

is finding great people, talented

people, and identifying

those who you want to bet on.

And enabling them.

And that works that's the most important

force, much more important than money.

Okay, because you could see

who's got the money and power and where

did they come from? Where did Nvidia

come from?

Where did they all come from? Okay,

they're guys like you, entrepreneur in a

sense, who's been enabled. Okay, by

because you have the talent and people

want to bet on you and that's the

capital market, so they give you money

to help enable you because they want to

bet on you and then good things happen.

But are you are you optimistic about the

United States at the moment? The United

States is very much a big picture. No, I

think it's very much in this issue. This

So, if I go down my list, it definitely

has this

debt money economy problem. We can get

into that, okay? It definitely has the

internal conflict power in which there

is a fight between the left, you know,

the hard left and the right due to

wealth and values gaps and people not

believing that the system will work for

them. And so, democracy is at risk

because they don't believe the they're

not going to follow the rules in the

sense they don't believe the rules are

going to

number three, it's of course the leading

one side in this great power conflict of

the world, right? In other words, yes,

between the United States and the one

side, let's say, and China and the

allies their allies on the other side. I

mean, in the news you just saw the

meetings of Xi, Putin, Modi and that

group over there walking down, you know,

and okay. So, now it should be pretty

clear how the sides are lining up.

Okay, you it's always better to be in a

place that's not in one of those wars.

Like, stay out of wars.

And of course, climate has an effect.

And of course, then we have technology.

The United States and China are in the

big technology competitions. The others

are really not in the game, they don't

have the money, that this innovation and

talent in a sense to play at that scale

and so on. So, we have a great, you

know, technology

war which can be used to create great

advances, but at the same time could be

used for great conflicts. And so, now

the question is going to be who wins the

technology war because the winner of the

technology war is going to win all wars,

okay?

In other words, they'll win the economic

war.

They'll win the geopolitical war because

technology. And I'm not saying anything

that hasn't repeated through history.

Give me that historical context if you

can just for for

The technology, for example, nuclear

Yeah. Nuclear

won World War II.

And and does this cycle go back further

than just

>> Oh, no, it goes back

that book, okay.

Um in order to understand these things

because I have to bet on what's going to

happen. I'm a global macro investor. I

studied the last 500 years of history.

And it happens over and over again in

all cases.

Oh, so I could take the British Empire,

I could take you through all the

empires, but the Dutch Empire before

that and all this and it it it it

happens all the time.

I watched your I watched your videos

about this and it's truly fascinating

how predictable this stuff is and

the work that you've done to uncover

this trend throughout history. I mean,

it's almost for me it was almost

irrefutable watching the evidence in in

things like a 40-minute video on YouTube

where you show how this played out

through empires. And it begs the

question, you know, cuz

when you live in the United States, when

you're when you're in the present time,

you almost never assume that the empire

you're in could fall.

You just don't you don't see how it can

happen. We're so strong, we're so great,

you know, we're so that doing AI over

here, have money over here, everything's

good, the sun's shining.

Of course.

People always think that the future

would be a slightly modified version of

the present.

And it's not.

Okay, watch over decades, but it's like

watching a

person grow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know,

you watch your kid or you watch a person

any age, any age, and that's what you

see. Yeah. Okay, and you don't see the

life arc. Yeah. Okay, but the life arc

is in irrefutable. But the you do do you

think it's conceivable that in the next

50 to 100 years the US could no longer

be the dominant power globally?

Yeah.

Yeah, more than conceivable. More than

conceivable.

What do what do you what do you mean by

more than conceivable?

I mean that these evolutions always take

place.

And they take place in a certain way.

And that

if you look at the

probabilities

and the paths and the symptoms,

there is a challenge the United States

is facing a number of those challenges.

And we're at a moment where um

it's a question of whether the system

and

the people

could can get control

of the situations and deal with it

strongly

and well

in a way where they are not

fighting

to the point of

damaging each other and damaging

the prospects for the future.

But I mean, the United States is very

innovative.

Got all these great innovative companies

here, so surely Yeah, but you can't make

generalizations about the United States

and you can't make generalizations, by

the way, about the markets either. Um

what you see is

um

1% a small percentage 1% of the

population. If you're looking at the

breakdown of incomes and also you're

looking at the innovation, the stock

markets, which stocks are doing well,

who owns those companies and all of

that. About 3 million people in a

country of 330 million people are really

unbelievably doing great and you could

pick the

neighborhoods they're in and what

they're doing. And then there's the top

10%, let's say, which is the people

around them and they're really really

doing great in that world. At the same

time, the bottom 60%

60% of Americans have below a sixth

grade reading level.

Wow.

And that population

in terms of

the basics

being productive

you have to be productive

and be prosperous. So,

what what you need to have a succe-

successful society is to have

broad-based productivity and prosperity.

Okay, and that's a problem.

Okay, so which America are you looking

at and are you watching the war that's

happening between these?

It's a little bit complicated for me as

a as a bit of an outsider because I see

Trump

saying he represents

those people.

But obviously Trump is a from the

billionaire class himself. So

I mean is he is he a savior for

inequality? Is he correcting in I think

I think he sees a lot of the problem and

he I think he sees the debt problem. I

think he sees the internal conflict

disorder problem. And I think he

represents

the red let's call it the red states. I

mean you look at a map and there's red

and blue and you see where they are.

Okay. And he represents that and they're

united behind him in terms of doing some

things. Okay. So he represents let's

call it the red side which is located

where the maps shows red and then there

are the blue and and he's

he views himself as somebody who needs

to take charge and to do certain things.

Others in that population would say

those who let's say are not getting or

having the food stamp program cut off

or having other programs cut off that

they're dependent on

would say

well a second that's not representing

me.

And so we have gone that population has

gone to significant number behind him.

That are

devotees.

They're all in.

Okay. At the same time as we have the

other side which will have their

devotees. If you know we're in New York

City.

Okay. And the up to upcoming mayoral

election will be an example of the two

sides. Okay. And they will

try to use the system but there's a

question. Will the system have enough

support to work? Okay. But that's what

we have. Just just to close up on this

point of the UK in particular. If if you

were to try and fix it, what would you

be aiming at? I say this because we do

have a millionaire exodus that's widely

reported in the UK where I think this

year was set to lose 16,000

roughly 16,000 millionaires.

When you look at the big big countries

like China, America, the UAE, the UK,

we're losing more millionaires than

anybody else. And I was wondering if you

think it's fixable and if you were in

charge of the UK

what you might aim at first.

It's difficult you know. First of all,

if you go back to the basic problem

which is there's too much debt

there are deficits

there's differences in

education and opportunity levels

and so on.

The most important thing that you can

have

is a strong middle.

Political middle? Political middle.

To be analytically strong

and also strong enough

to get the people to do what needs to be

done even if they don't want to do it to

get to be productive.

Now that's an easy thing to say.

It's not an easy thing to do. But you do

need that strong middle and you do need

to convey to people that you need to

have the strong middle to change

productivity.

And you know and are you in it?

Are are you in it? Are you patriotic and

in it and you know. But you look at

history

how did the United States come to be the

United States? People will go

to the places

that are better

than them than stay in the places that

worse for them. This is fundamental,

right? Incentives. Okay. So you have to

make the place

better.

Okay. Now I would say also you can take

pockets

and they go into the pocket and let it

spread out but you also have to have

this

equal education or you know you've got

to strive for equal opportunity. But

anyway, it's a difficult question that

I'm afraid

I'm incapable of

um

solving.

It was unnerving to hear the tone of

your voice drop when I asked it. You

slightly um

as if you you've kind of given up on the

UK a little bit.

Your facial reaction

>> No, I'm I'm just a I'm just a

I'm a practical guy.

I'm a realistic guy. I made my money.

I'm in the business

and it's my nature

to try to be realistic.

And to bet on how things will transpire.

And that's not healthy. The situation in

the UK is not healthy. And the situation

in the United States is very risky in

many ways. It's what we're describing.

So you know and then if you look where

are people going

then then you see the places that have

the qualities we're talking about.

They're civil.

They're creative.

The people aren't at war with each

other.

What happens next

in history?

Well, usually there's a big fight for

control.

Political revolutions and things like

that.

The system breaks down

because they don't trust the system.

So

will the legal system resolve that? Will

the parliamentary system resolve that?

That these disputes

satisfactorily

to the satisfaction of those people and

the other people who have different

points of view?

And the sides won't believe it. This

goes back

this goes back to Rome. It goes back to

Caesar.

You know, the Senate.

You know, this goes back through history

all the time. Right? And and then the

30s four major democracies

chose to be autocracies. Okay. That

happened in Italy, Germany, Spain and

Japan. What's autocracy for anyone that

doesn't know the word? Well, it it means

a dictatorship

essentially

of a limited number of people at the top

who are autocratic which means that they

are directing things rather than a

democracy

in which

there's representatives of all different

points of view that get together and

follow rules to make decisions.

So the UK could become an autocracy

as could the US I guess.

Um you're going to see a lot of pressure

for that strong leader who will get

control of things and make it work well.

And will and you're likely to see

two different views

as to which side you know, the red and

the blue sides so to speak. You're

likely to see that type of

clash. You said the US is playing a

risky game itself.

Is that from a debt debt perspective or

otherwise?

>> Well, from these things. Okay.

>> from the internal conflict from the

changing world order, the geopolitical

world conflict. You know, I don't know.

We're playing with nuclear weapons and

in wars in different places and then of

course climate and then

the technology war how we're doing that.

You know. I saw that image the other day

of Putin and and President Xi in China

together walking together. If China does

become the dominant force in the world

the dominant power

does is that a smooth transition? First

of all, I don't think

either side is going to be the clearly

dominant power for for a very long time.

Um and the

the quickest way

to have it is some kind of a war and

that's a dangerous thing. And but maybe

it evolves

hopefully the way the Soviet Union of

evolved that the the worry of mutually

assured destruction

keeps everybody

not having

that kind of war and then then then the

systems one system or another system

wins.

But that's an evolutionary process and

you know I can't say and

um

Do you think much about time frames and

cuz I when I was watching the fifth when

I was going through the changing world

order, there seems to be somewhat

consistent or predictable time frames

when these things these transitions

happen. Do you think about where we are?

>> Well, they're long-term big cycles.

Yeah. Right? It's it's like a life

cycle. On average they are about a life

cycle about 80 years. But it's not

predetermined just like your life cycle

is not predetermined. Like if you take

care of yourself and you you know I

don't know don't smoke, eat well,

exercise and so on so forth then you

will probably have a longer life cycle

than if you don't take care of yourself

and it's kind of like that you know. And

so you see them in history they evolve

but you can see the symptoms.

Okay. You can see the actions and the

symptoms.

Which like taking a physical

then gives you a sense of where they are

in their life cycles. What 80 years from

World War II. 80 years from World War

II, yeah.

And you're seeing the symptoms. Yeah.

Symptoms are clear. They're all in that

book. You can see the charts of all the

systems. Is it something to be worried

about or concerned about

if you're in the United States?

No

Yes.

And then the question is how you as an

individual handle it. How do I as an

individual handle it?

Well, first of all, I think

I think you have to be aware of the

situation and the risks.

For me and my family though, in terms of

risks

and how I should um

counteract those risks. Is it a case of

me saving for a rainy day? Is it a case

That's part of it. Yeah. Um

there's a there's a saying in Hong Kong

um a Chinese saying which is a smart

rabbit has three holes.

And what that means is

you can see is it the UK or the US and

uh and I can then move to the better

place and get out of the place that's a

terrible place. So, can I successfully

be an immigrant or whatever and change

my location? Throughout history, that's

been important. So, the ability to go to

good places

and away from bad places.

Um so, that's part of it.

Um secondly

building your financial strength

is important, which has to do with how

you earn, spend, and save. That will

determine

the amount.

And then, what you do with that amount

is invest. And so, how you invest

uh is also important.

So,

if you have your financial ability

and you can make the move and then you

have knowledge

you know, about what's happening

so that you can change things. Those are

the things you need. So, on that first

point about a smart rabbit having three

holes

is it therefore

a better decision at this point in time

to not

to not buy a house?

Because a lot of people end up buying a

house and it anchors them to to a place

and it means that they then have to pay

into a mortgage. So, a lot of a lot of

financial advice most of us have growing

up is when you get enough money to buy a

house, move in, pay that mortgage for 25

years. But if I'm in a new economy in a

new world and flexibility and the

ability to get up and go and move is uh

there's there's uh value to that. The

ability to move capital matters. And if

you look at history this has been an

important consideration. Yes, so it

matters. So, if you're nailing yourself

down and that's your primary capital and

it's nailed down there, then that's

those limit your flexibility.

And on the point of earning, spending,

and saving

wondered what you you're a You're a a

father, aren't you? Yeah.

What what advice are you giving to your

children about earning money in the in

the current world?

Where where they should set up their

shop, the skills that are most valuable

to acquire, the technologies, the we

talked about the US being a place to

one of the better places to build your

career

for all the reasons you described.

Well, that's

You know, that's kind of like the

particular that you asked me for that's

below the level of the higher level.

Okay? The higher level is I have a

principle. Make your work and your

passion the same thing and don't forget

about the money part.

Okay, if you make your work and your

passion the same thing so that you're

really enjoying your work

you'll have an enjoyable, satisfactory

life and you'll probably be better at

your career. That um as a result, you

probably advance and so on. So, you have

a happier life and you will have a more

probably a more successful life. But it

is true that the careers that you choose

will have financial implications. Mhm.

And if you say I want to be a poet or

something along those lines, you better

consider the financial implications of

that. That doesn't mean that you have to

go make a ton of money cuz I think that

that's I think a lot of people fall into

that trap that they think the money is

um like vast amounts of money is vast

amounts of success and that's not true.

In other words, is your work and your

passion the same thing? So, I think that

what brings people happiness is

meaningful work and meaningful

relationships.

Mhm. Okay, if you have meaningful work,

you know, that you're into and you're

what you know, your passion and your

work's the same thing and you have

meaningful relationships whether through

that work or beyond you going to have

probably a great life, okay? And so, you

have to keep that in mind and it doesn't

have much correlation past a certain

level of money Mhm. uh it doesn't have

much correlation with um that well-being

with the amount of money you have. And

if you see studies across societies and

you'll see that past that certain basic

level, there's no correlation between

the amount of money they have and how

much happiness they have or well-being,

okay? That the highest level of

correlation across societies and studies

of happiness and well-being is

community.

Do you have a sense of community? Do you

have those around you who are your

community? You'll live longer that way.

You'll have a more joyous life and it'll

be a better outcome. But anyway, so

thinking about those things I think is

important.

Based on your life cycle in this book,

Principles: Your Guided Journey, Create

Your Own Principles to Get the Work and

Life You Want

do you think you have to play different

games in different seasons of your life

cycle as it relates to generating

wealth? And what I'm talking about here

is really like risk profile um or what I

should be optimizing for. Should I be

Should I be trying to hang around with

Ray Dalio or should I be focusing on the

job that pays me the most?

First of all, yeah, the answer is yes.

And uh the second question you asked the

answer is um that you should be around

the

the people who are the best people to

teach you, to operate by them, the

mentors, and the learnings, and so on.

You should be around the best people.

And when I say best people, I mean

people of good character and good

capabilities, okay? And uh so, you

should be around the best, not the job

that pays you the most.

And I could explain why that is, but and

yes, in terms of that arc, you will play

it differently at different parts of

your life cycle. So, in the early part

of your life cycle, what you're going to

do is I mean, the more

learning and experiencing is the most

important thing that you can do in the

learning in the early part of your life

cycle.

It's like you're going to make your

choices. What direction am I going to be

in and so on and so forth. So, learn,

okay? That's that's most important. And

then once you're at the end of your life

cycle, you're pretty much relieved from

all of that. You're not going to be

working to earn, okay? You're going to

be free of all of that. You're going to

have

um and you have freedom of choices and

so on. And you're going to be thinking

about transitioning.

How do I transition well-being or how do

I transition my wealth or how do I

transition and so on, you know? That's

that's where you are. Still learning is

a joy

but at the same time in terms of trying

to accomplish it's not the same at your

late part of your life cycle as it is in

your early part of your life cycle. So,

I want to ask about your early life

cycle and what the most important

strategic or wealth-generating decisions

you made

that you would encourage everybody to

consider if their nature is aligned to

yours.

>> Okay, my nature was I hated school.

I didn't like

the whole thing of remembering this and

remembering this and then give it back

to me and there were these uh you know,

history like there's William the

Conqueror in 1066 and what did he do and

you know, like all of that was what

education represented. And when I was um

12, a kid I earned money with odd jobs

like um I had a paper route and

um I mowed lawns and I caddied and I

took my caddying money and when I was

12, I got everybody was talking about

the stock market. So, I put some money

in the stock market. I didn't know what

I was doing, of course, but I um I

picked um the stock. It was the only

stock I ever heard of that was selling

for less than $5 a share and my

reasoning was I could buy more shares.

So, if it went up, I could make more

money.

Okay, that was a stupid criteria, but it

was a company that was about to go

bankrupt and another company acquired it

and it tripled in price.

And I said, I like this game.

So, I got I got hooked on the game.

I'm still hooked on the game, right? So,

I liked it. Okay, that that affected me.

So, I barely got into uh CW Post College

and then I went to uh Harvard Business

School and that opened my eyes to the

world in the in many ways because of who

were there and what it was like and all

that, you know, the best and the

brightest kind of thing. But I always

still

traded markets cuz I always played the

game.

And I can tell you stories that you want

me to couple of quick stories?

>> 100%

>> Okay.

So, I'm clerking on the floor of the New

York Stock Exchange between graduating

from college and in the summer between

graduating from college and going to

Harvard Business School and that is 1970

summer of 1971.

And on August 15th, 1971,

Richard Nixon

gets on the television

and says

that you know the promise that that you

were going to be able to take your paper

money and go get gold, you can't do

that.

And we're not we're going to cut off

that off. He didn't say it in exactly

those words, but money then was gold.

And what we think of is paper money,

fiat money, was claims on the gold. So,

I walked on the floor of the New York

Stock Exchange that summer and I thought

the market was going to go down a lot

and the market went up a lot.

And I didn't understand why cuz I never

went through a devaluation before and I

studied history

and I found that

in March of 1933,

Roosevelt got on the radio and made the

exact same announcement that you're not

going to get your gold and they're going

to print the money and when you print a

lot of money, you have that.

Okay. So, I learned

that history

of things that never happened in my

lifetime before were important things to

understand. Okay. I went back

then to Harvard Business School to for 2

years and and 2 years later, as a result

of all the printing of money and the oil

shock because of all of that, uh we had

the I in 1973 oil shock.

And now because of my background, I'm

head hired to be director of commodities

at a Wall Street brokerage firm.

Okay. Mhm. Which and then

all sorts of things happened. Um

turbulence and so and so forth. That

firm went broke. I went to another firm

and I was

uh rowdy. I wasn't your typical good

employee, you know, follow everything

and so

So, I got fired.

And that was in uh 1975.

And then I but uh clients all liked me

and and for things and so, they would

pay me for advice and I continued to

trade the markets and that's when I

formed Bridgewater.

Okay.

And what happened?

>> That was 1975.

I just passed along Bridgewater 50 years

later. Yeah. Okay.

So, there's a journey there

that has failures and successes and

learnings. You know, I have a principle.

Pain plus reflection equals progress.

Okay. Your best learnings come from the

pain. It's a message. Pay attention.

Learn how reality works and how to deal

with it differently so you have

principles for real dealing with reality

better.

And I learned that process and from that

process, my company Bridgewater became

the largest hedge fund in the world. Um

extremely successful. Managing how much

at 150 billion dollars. 1,500 people 150

billion dollars. And that's made you a

very wealthy man. It made me a very

wealthy man, which by the way, was not

my intention.

Okay. I just wanted to play the game and

to have meaningful work and meaningful

relationships. That was paramount, but

it happened to be the game I played. If

you're good at the game, you make a lot

of money. And now, I'm in a stage in my

life where I'm

I want to pass things along. I need to

pass things along, right? So, hence the

books, hence our conversation

and here we are. That's the life arc.

But I learned a lot

and so that's the journey.

I think B2B marketers keep making this

mistake. They're chasing volume instead

of quality. And when you try to be seen

by more people instead of the right

people, all you're doing is making

noise, but that noise rarely shifts the

needle and it's often quite expensive.

And I know there was a time in my career

where I kept making this mistake that

many of you will be making it too.

Eventually, I started posting ads on our

show sponsors platform LinkedIn and

that's when things started to change. I

put that change down to a few critical

things. One of them being that LinkedIn

was then and still is today the platform

where decision makers go to, not only to

think and learn, but also to buy. And

when you market your business there,

you're putting it right in front of

people who actually have the power to

say yes. And you can target them by job

title, industry and company size. It's

simply a sharper way to spend your

marketing budget. And if you haven't

tried it, how about this? Give LinkedIn

ads a try and I'm going to give you a

$100 ad credit to get you started. If

you visit linkedin.com/diary,

you can claim that right now. That's

linkedin.com/diary.

Just for context, people don't like

talking about money and I understand it,

but you're a prolific philanthropist.

Also, Google says that your net worth is

in the tens of billions of dollars and

I'm sure there's some people that have

clicked on this conversation and aren't

aware of the scale of wealth you built

up in the scale of Bridgewater Capital

and how prolific and famous it is

in the investing world. In that 50-year

life arc, one of the things you

mentioned is pain.

All of us will encounter pain.

And you said pain plus reflection equals

progress.

How have you learned to deal with pain?

You've had a lot of pain in all facets

of life cuz you've lived the life arc

and you continue to. How what's the best

principle for dealing with pain?

The first of all, um to calm yourself

down

and to get centered. Meditation has had

a big beneficial effect on my life.

We can get into meditation in a minute

of how it has, but the ability to, you

know, in a sense,

calm yourself down

and when the time is right

to reflect on

what's happened

both to understand how reality works.

You know, you want to be a hyperrealist.

I understand how reality works,

therefore I need to do this under this

set of circumstances,

which means developing principles. And

so, what I did

when I would do that anytime and

whenever I would think, what what should

I do,

whether painful or not,

I would pause, reflect

on, you know, what should I do if that

happened again

and that's how I would write down my

principles.

And what I did was I wrote down

a lot of principles.

>> principles. A lot of principles. If this

happens, that happens and whatever.

And then so, I wrote these principles

down

and then I found that in investing,

um if I can computerize

those

decision rules,

I could back test them, see how they

would have worked and so on. So, I built

systems, decision-making systems. Um

computer would make decisions. So, it

was AI before LLMs, but it was AI to

have decision-making criteria. So, it

would be like I I would make a computer

chess game

that would play while I was playing my

mental chess game

what moves we would make.

And it's completely automated and so on.

But I'm what I'm trying to say is that

reflecting on how does reality really

work

and what do I do when this happens to

that happens is the development of

principles.

And that has been invaluable and it also

makes me see things differently.

Because a lot of people um

and if I didn't do this, I would be

seeing almost as uh

a blizzard of things coming at me.

Instead,

I see everything as another one of

those.

So, let let's say for example,

it it's a species. So, it's like seeing,

okay, that's what kind of species is it

and how do I deal with that species? So,

it's one of those rather than just a lot

of things coming at me. Pattern

recognition of Yeah. But but let's say

if you think of a it's a duck. Okay.

Okay.

Okay, it's a duck. How do I deal with a

duck? Or it's a lion.

Okay, how do I deal with a lion? You're

being very strict.

>> than just a lot of things coming at it.

So, this principle thinking

and seeing it that way had a big effect

on

the quality of my decision-making and

and that helped.

Two questions I had there is to become a

principle thinker, I need to do more

reflection, right?

And then the other thing is

>> Yeah, think about how does

how does the machine, how does how does

life, how do these things work?

So, that's what I mean. Okay. And to

write that down.

>> Uh

yeah, write write down your thoughts. I

find

sometimes what I would do is I'd uh

dictate them into my iPhone. Okay. Okay.

I'd say,

okay,

this is how When you're making a

decision, why did you make that

decision?

So, not just make a decision, but think

about the criteria you're using to make

the decision.

Also, my emotions, my trauma, my

insecurities, my anxiety. Right. And and

you might say when reflecting on that,

is that helpful? Is that harmful?

And what do I do about that? Like, for

example, when what you're referring to

is, yes,

that emotions and the things and all of

those um we you have to understand that

the basically the brain's got two parts

to it, right? It has the logical

part of your brain, reasonable, tries to

reason things through, and that which is

conscious. And then it has the

subconscious mind, which is the

subliminal that is really driving you.

And so when you can

reflect,

okay, how are my emotions entering into

it?

What do I you know, and so on, and you

can think and you can align that. That's

very powerful. And meditation, by the

way, naturally does that, because what

you do when you meditate and maybe a

time's coming I should explain

meditation. Okay, how it works.

Um

what you do is it's a process by which

you sit quietly

and you repeat in your mind what is

called a mantra, which is a sound that

it's a word that has no meaning. Let me

say the most classic example of that

would be om. Okay, so you quietly there

and you go

with your breath you go you know, om.

Om, like that. But you need to be

taught. But anyway, I

om and so when you're doing that

uh because you're om is in your mind or

your mantra's in your mind, you're not

able to have other thoughts.

You'll see yourself wavering between

doing that and staying on the mantra and

then having thoughts.

Um but and then you go back to your

mantra. When you are

uh in the mantra a a lot, then it

disappears.

The sound disappears and you go into

your subconscious mind.

That's what they call transcending.

Transcendental meditation is the type of

meditation I do.

And so you go there and you're not in a

conscious state and you're not in an

subcon- unconscious state. You're in a

conscious state. So it's subconscious

state. It's not unconscious is you're

sleeping. Conscious is that you're awake

like we are. You're in this. So it's a

different state. Like if you hear that

noise, you would hear that noise. It

would be big. And not when you're

sleeping. But when you're in your

subconscious state,

then it's relaxing,

uh it's helpful, and this process helps

to

um

bring

your conscious state and your uncon-

subconscious state into alignment.

In other words, you recognize both

and it calms you down.

It's like a the ninja in the ninja

movies, you know, they're fighting, but

they it seems in slow motion. The camera

shows them in slow motion and they're

doing whatever they're doing along that.

It kind of makes you in that kind of

state of mind so that you're dealing

with what's coming at you in that way.

And so what you referred to is this

um these things that happen, and how you

deal with those is really important to

the quality of your decision making. How

influential was transcendental

meditation in your success? Oh,

enormously successful. I enormously

significant. Ver- very very significant.

In other words, that way of singing

seeing things. And how often And and by

the way, there's you know, there's

uh

I I would say

there's a Serenity Prayer.

The Serenity Prayer

is God give me the serenity to accept

that which I can't control

and give me the power

to control that which I can

and the wisdom to tell the difference.

Okay? And so to how you approach these

things, we're talking about reflection.

You asked me reflection, okay? If you

can reflect in that quality way,

then you deal with anything. And I've

I've dealt with

uh the worst possible thing. Um I lost a

son.

Okay? And I would have rather died. I

would have rather lost everything to

lose my son. So it's the worst possible

thing. And and then to see what it did,

you know, the damage and the harm and

fear from family, terrible.

Okay.

Then to go through that with meditation,

with reflection, and so on,

uh was invaluable. And people have their

own challenges,

but to be able to do it that way,

I I really urge your audience, I urge

you, to uh to learn that. That's very

helpful.

How how did that tragedy change your

your perspective and your your

principles in any way? On life, on on

happiness, on success, on all these

things that you've written about.

Well, it's again I you know, I go above

it

and uh you reflect on the life arc.

And

I realize at that higher level

that that's

what the life arc is like. If you'll In

in all my books there's this

ar- um arcing.

This arcing here. There's a bigger

version of it.

Uh yeah, there's this arcing.

Okay, I don't know if your camera sees

that. Okay, whatever it is. And that's

what life and evolution is like to me,

meaning you make advances.

You will have setbacks.

Okay?

If you reflect well

and you learn how reality works and how

you will deal with it,

you will get past that

and go on.

And that's just what it is. That's just

the way life is.

And if you do that well,

then that's your best possible life. Are

you religious? Are you a religious

person? I'm not religious, but I'm

spiritual. Okay. The Dalai Lama, who I

had the pleasure of meeting, told me uh

and I I agree with

um that religions are typically

um a mix

between superstitions

and spirituality. There's half of it is

that element that nobody knows, but

there is

the way people should deal with each

other.

There is karma.

Okay? All religions

there's a part of them

that says

do unto others as you would have them do

unto you, or what goes around comes

around. And then you get to the

particulars, okay? And it is true

that if we work well together,

that

even little things I can do to help you

can make a big difference in your life.

And little things that you can do to

help me make a the big difference in my

our lives.

And so it's practical and it is also

joyous.

Okay? That creates a relationship. And

we talked earlier about how that

meaningful relationship is like the

source of great happiness. But when you

have a community and you do that, you

have a better society. And almost all

religions will tell you that. There'll

be elements of those.

And when I believe in spirituality, what

I also mean is

um we're all part of this greater whole.

Okay?

We're all part of the greater whole. And

if you could see yourself as part of the

greater whole

and love the greater whole uh and

whatever,

that is spirituality, really, okay? And

so I will go through my life arc,

okay? And I will die, and I'm

comfortable with that, okay? In that,

okay, it's all

part of the greater whole you know, nat-

nature and whatever it is. That's true.

I can't tell you about other things, but

I do believe in the things I just told

you.

When it comes to living a a successful

life, you we've talked about having

dreams and understanding your nature and

aspiring for things and then

understanding reality, which

transcendental meditation's a great

mechanism and vehicle to do.

Um and in your in your book about a

successful life, you talk about plus

determination.

Plus determination.

Hard work.

If I want to be a successful

man or woman,

how important do you think hard work is?

Well, gives you power. It's very

important, right? Some people some

people, you know,

I'm not saying they want to choose it,

but the iron- the irony of things is

there are first order consequences and

there are second order consequences.

This is like a rule of life, okay? And

most of the time the first order

consequences,

whether they're

likable or not,

has the opposite second quarter

second order consequences. So what I

mean by that is

like eating

or exercising, okay?

Eat the foods you like,

second order consequence is probably not

going to be good.

Um

you know, I don't want to exercise.

Um the second order consequences won't

be as good, okay?

Working hard,

which gives you strength. Where does

strength come from? I mean

strength comes from working hard.

So, working hard will will give you

power.

Power will make things easier and make

things better.

That's just the way it is.

And being open-minded while you do it?

Something that was really important to

you.

>> Yeah.

I say

importance of being open-minded and

assertive at the same time.

Um

I I

I watch

people becoming so

tied to their own opinions.

Like this is the greatest tragedy of

mankind.

The greatest tragedy of mankind cuz it's

so easily can be fixed

is

holding a strong opinion

that is wrong

that you

could have made right

better

if you were open to learning more. If

you were said I want to be stress

tested. I want my thinking to be stress

tested. I want to make sure that I'm

making the better decision. And so I'll

be challenged. But a lot of people view

that challenging like a fight.

It's not a fight. If somebody holds a

different opinion, it should prompt a

curiosity.

You know, I don't know. Am I wrong or is

they wrong? It's a 50% chance. I don't

know. Maybe I'm wrong.

So, it should prompt curiosity and an

exchange to try to make sure that you're

seeing the whole picture and so on. But

subliminal instincts are I'm going to

stick with it and I'm going to have a

fight.

That's the problem.

Because there's too much on the line for

so many people to to It's subliminal.

It's It's It just goes back to the mind

thinking

that the intellectual challenge is a

fight.

And it's egotistical, you know, ego.

I must be right. As an As an investor

and entrepreneur, that's obviously

particularly important because

you're constantly dealing with new

information and feedback which you need

to

be flexible.

>> That was one of the two things that

changed my

uh

my my my whole direction and made me

successful. I get I can't explain it if

you want.

>> Please.

19

79 and 80.

I had calculated that American banks

had lent more money to foreign countries

that they were going to be able to pay

back and that we were going to have a

debt crisis.

Very controversial point of view. In

August of

1982,

Mexico defaulted on its debts.

And over the next decade, many other

countries did and it caused bank

problems. However,

at that time, I thought things were

going to get bad and that was the exact

bottom in the stock market, August 1982.

So, I couldn't have been more wrong.

I

lost money for me. I lost money for the

clients. I lost money. I was so broke

that I had to borrow $4,000 from my dad

to help to pay for family bills because

I was faced with the choice, what am I

going to do?

And And do I

Do I go back to

work on Wall Street, get a

uh

tie, get on the train and go back that

which is again not in my nature or

whatever. And And two things changed me.

Okay, reflection.

First of all

um I learned what we were just talking

about.

I learned humility.

A fear of being wrong.

And open-mindedness.

So, I wanted the smartest people who

could I could find to stress test my

opinions.

Cuz I'm always realized I could be

wrong.

And then I learned how to diversify my

bets so that I could dramatically reduce

my risk without reducing my returns.

Okay, that was the bottom.

Okay, from that point all the way over,

that following those principles took me

to the biggest hedge fund in the world,

the most successful and so on cuz I

applied it to the market, applied it to

what we did and so on. So, that notion

of reflection and then how do you deal

with what reality is like and then, you

know, okay, the Learn Learn radical

open-mindedness. In other words, unlike

there's a principle in the book, you

have to take in before you put out.

Or that um

decision-making is a two-step process.

First, take in, then decide.

Okay? So, yes, open-mindedness

you don't doesn't in any way minimize

your ability to decide.

So, you still have the freedom to

decide, but it's crazy not to be

open-minded.

You recognize that the biggest threat to

good decision-making is harmful emotions

and that two-step process is first learn

and then make the decision, which is

funny cuz it sounds simple. But when you

said it, I think about all the worst

decisions I've ever made in business and

I missed step one.

I forgot to I forgot to take a minute

and do the evidence gathering or the

like information gathering process.

>> Yeah, just smart people care about your

decision. Say stress test me.

Why don't we do that?

That ego

and also instinct that that's a fight.

Is there any advice you would give me on

becoming a better decision-maker? So, I

have a fund, I have many businesses. Is

there any sort of practical

simple foundations of becoming a better

decision-maker that we haven't talked

about? Get smart people to interrogate

my thinking.

Um be open-minded.

I think we've talked about almost all of

them. Um

I think then you have to then know about

how to leverage yourself.

Okay? In other words, as you do more and

more

uh how do you do more and more when your

brain has a capacity limit?

Okay? And there's only certain number of

hours in the day or the week. Okay? You

have to know how to do that.

>> Is that focus or is that something

No.

It's knowing how to do it through

others.

Okay?

It's knowing how to pick others and

orchestrate we- well. It's like uh

running a symphony or whatever. Okay?

Get the best players.

Okay, when I say you know, um good

character and good capabilities

and orchestrate them well.

And then provide that um that leverage.

Like I um

when I was doing the most, I had 30

direct reports.

Whatever the number is, it's only at

it's the process is how to get more out

of a minute or a day.

Not how to work harder.

Okay? It's how to leverage yourself. And

you're going to leverage yourself by

picking the right people who you can

trust. They're not going to screw you.

They're going to operate in your

interest and they're going to be

capable. And so, a lot of people, what

you can do is you can deal with them and

then you can say like I I would deal

with them on this 30 reports.

I'd have maybe um

an hour meeting with them once every 2

weeks.

And And they'd go off and do things.

And when you do that, you can even find

people who are much better at things

than you would be if you did them.

Because if you have these different

things

okay, you better because otherwise you

don't have the capacity.

You have these two

key challenges to to overcome as an

which is find these great capable people

that have great character and then like

bind them with the right culture to make

sure that they do the best work. Right.

And And in other words

it's meaningful work and meaningful

relationships

through radical truthfulness and radical

transparency.

Radical truthfulness and transparency.

Okay. First, if you can have um

meaningful

work and meaningful relationships, the

people are on the mission with you.

Wow, that's fantastic. But

y-

You better be truthful and transparent.

That'll show that you're honest and you

better because you have to get a truth

including what people are bad at

and how to deal with all those things.

How Uh and And most people hide them.

They don't bring them out into the open.

Okay? They'll Everybody's worried about

hurting each other's feelings or

you know, uh that. And then so they're

not honest with each other.

And And they're That's the barrier. You

We talked about the barrier of

disagreement. There's It's like that.

Okay, um you know, uh I don't know. Are

you good at that? Are you striking out?

If you're striking out and what is it?

How do we deal with it? You better talk

about that clearly cuz you need to have

an A team of players. You know, you have

to work yourself so that your team is an

A team of players who are tight. How did

you do that Bridgewater? How did you

make people honest?

Uh well, uh fir- first of all, um I had

a policy, talk behind another person's

back

um critically.

That happens three times, you're out.

And then I would have radical

transparency so everybody could see

everything.

So, you could see why I'm making

decisions that I would reflect.

But the main thing

is, you know, you know if it's happening

or not.

Okay? And I made that comfortable

because that's un- ordinarily

uncomfortable.

We talked about the fact that there's an

intellectual you and there's an

emotional subliminal you. Okay, I made

them understand like if I had a team, a

football team,

and so on,

that this is going to be better for the

team, it's going to be better for you

and you'll have your evolution because

what do you want to have dishonesty? Do

you want people to think one thing about

you and really say something different?

How is that going to work? So, there's

an intellectual

okay, we believe it. And then also by

having the meaningful relationships. I

mean,

I'm not I don't force them. I create a

culture of meaningful relationships so

that they

have known each other for a long time.

They go go to each others parties or

they go to each others

their are funerals, there are baby

showers, there are these things. Not

that anybody's

I I created uh clubs. I said any club

that you want to create that has more

than

20 people, um whatever it is up to $500

per person, I'll pay for half.

So, so I don't care what it is. If it's

play softball or play chess or whatever

it is that you're enjoying each other's

company or you want to go to

ball games or something. I don't care

what it is. I'll pay for half up to that

up to $500. So, I to

nobody has obligations to or something.

But if I have that kind of meaningful

relationships, so you can talk honestly

with each other.

I found that very helpful. And you built

a famously built an idea meritocracy,

which in my understanding means where

the best idea ends up winning in the

company versus just your idea because

you're the most powerful person in the

business.

>> Right. I mean, I want what do I want? I

want the best idea to win. This sounds

simple but but again, it's it's not how

businesses operate. One of the

fascinations I've always had is that

when businesses get bigger and they have

more intellectual horsepower by I mean,

if you just added up how many brains

they had, they sometimes get less

innovative and

it it feels like the the CEO

>> Well, because they become more more

bureaucratic and more fragmented. Yeah.

Okay, there's I found it to be true and

it's well established fact that if you

get a group of people past a certain

size, which is 75 to 100 people,

um they don't know each other. Okay,

they they they start to become different

and then

you lose those relationships, you lose a

lot and so on. I found it because I

at the holiday season every year, what I

would do is I would write everybody

notes, long notes in in their cards and

I would pick an individualized holiday

gift for them. And when it got to be the

67 people, I remember the year, it broke

my back. I mean, I I just couldn't do

it. Okay, and I realized that at that

point, I was

going into another frame. Okay, and so

it's a organizational reality that you

can keep that group and then what you

have to do is then you have different

those different areas and you have to

create cohesiveness between those

different and

cohesiveness, common mission and how do

you do that between that? So, like for

example, when we'd have our holiday

party, where it used to be everybody

would be

you know, sort of go in and you have a

holiday party and everybody together.

What I found out is we had a big arena

that we would go to and I'd have both.

I'd have okay,

that department is in that area and

whatever and then they come out and they

all mingle together and so on. So,

there's an organizational

thing that you've got to realize in

terms of culture and and management of

that.

>> It's like villages in a city, I guess.

Like you basically keep build the

villages and then

>> Good example, yeah. Interesting. Okay.

And yeah, yeah, all media companies are

at that exact point now. It's at it's at

that 90 90 odd people.

>> Okay, there you are.

>> you said 75 to 100, I was like, ah

interesting.

>> Yeah. I was thinking about all the

things I should be doing now to

counteract some of those adverse effects

of the culture splintering or

relationships breaking down, but I guess

you've described it there. Uh

interesting. And I have to say, one of

the things that I found to be most I'm

33 years old. I just turned 33 last

week.

It's crazy how

how often people say that hiring is the

most important thing. Yet when you look

at how what entrepreneurs are spending

their time on, it's usually like the

product, the marketing, etc. And it's

maybe like one or two hours in some

cases if they're lucky on finding truly

exceptional people. They often just

outsource it to someone else, the

recruitment team.

When you think back through your career,

how important was it to find truly

exceptional people? Of course. Well, I

systematized it. First of all,

um I think

that anything I do or one does can be

systematized. So, I would think what are

the personalities, what are the

backgrounds of the people that I'm

hiring, what are the choices, how do I

specify it? And I've and I got it by

also maintaining a lot of data with

people. There's um there's a TED Talk I

did that uh explains how like data

everybody's going around and they're

operating in a certain way. So, I know

what people are like. If you know what