I was obsessed with the fact that I was

gonna die young I wanted to hurt people

the way I was hurt some of the things

that go through my head scared me

nice I got 21 seconds to go

top boys are in the building growing up

had a lot of trauma and it made me angry

with the world my dad was in prison you

know so much childhood the local bad

boys they became dead to me and I

started to follow in their footsteps I'm

still paying the price for those years

now but once I get in front of a camera

it's not that Ashley anymore top boy top

boy top boy the greatest show that's

ever come out of the UK let him up it's

crazy you know it changed my life but

filming the last season me and Kane we

didn't have the greatest time people

don't understand we go hard for that

show we go hard to make sure characters

are being represented in the way they

should be and we Face a lot of

resistance how

the truth is

2005. you had rekindled your

relationship with your father yeah

and then he died man I never realized

it would affect me that much took me to

some Dark Places making decisions that

[Music]

were gonna come back to haunt me you

know

um

yeah man I want to break down now just

talking about

[Music]

Ashley I've got an interesting

observation that I wanted to start with

i the way you speak the way you've been

chatting to me before we started rolling

it

almost reminds me of someone who has

had a bit of therapy

or has done some work on understanding

the unobvious subconscious forces that

are at play in their life and what

you've had to delve into because I think

as is often the case in this podcast I

think our like earliest context shapes

us in a profound way and it's something

that's quite hard to unshape ourselves

with undo as we become adults so what is

that early context that you've um you've

had to reflect on to understand yourself

ah man so where do I start

um so much I mean look I I I

first of all I've had a lot of therapy

right so I've been in a lot of

situations where

I've been canceled you know I've I've

um

sought help

um

because I needed it right

um

had a lot of trauma I guess that that

has kind of stuck with me over my life

and I think one of the biggest things

for me was

um my dad really that's why I stem back

to like growing up

um just not having a father figure

around

um and the places that push me to and

don't get me wrong like a lot of people

have gone through that

and come out the other side and not been

like me but I dealt with it in like a

really

crazy sort of way you know it made me

angry

made me angry with the world so all

throughout my you know my soul solid

years and my early kind of acting years

um my attitude towards life and towards

other people was very I mean it was

wrong you know it was quite negative

and I wanted to hurt people

the way I was hurt

and sometimes I did you know sometimes I

did it came out in a lot of different

ways some of the people I cared about

some of the people were close to me and

some people I didn't know random people

but

got me into a lot of trouble with the

police

yeah you know I just didn't care about

myself as a team growing up so and look

I had some amazing supportive people

around me like my mum is amazing I've

got an amazing family but that one

niggling thing of kind of being slightly

lost about what a man is

um not feeling like I fit in

rooms with other men you know in groups

of people and stuff like that just like

having this niggling doubt about myself

all the time

um made me quite a difficult person to

be around

um growing up and trying to explore that

so yeah when I and I didn't know it was

that's why at the time I didn't know I

had anything to do with

you know not having my dad around like

my dad when he was around

you know he was in prison most of my my

childhood growing up that was like

France he used to say he was in France

so to me and my younger brothers like

any time

you know my mom would be like he's in

France or someone would say he's in

France or whatever that was like code

for prison didn't know at the time

something I learned later on but it was

he was in France a lot of times so you

know I mean it was like

um so there was a few phone

conversations and stuff like that with

him but never had him there and then

when he would turn up he would just turn

up randomly at my at my house and stuff

and one thing I always remember is that

I always wanted to go with him right

because he was a superhero to me you

know I didn't care as much as the other

adults cared about the fact that he was

you know in and out of my life and what

damage that was doing to me and stuff

like that I was just like I want to see

my dad everyone else has got a dad

why haven't I got a dad you know I want

to know my dad so

I'll give my mom a little credit because

she would never bad mouth him in front

of me even though I know that she wanted

to and

she would always give me the option so

anytime he would come she was like would

you like to go

and I would obviously go and then I'd

come back crying because something had

happened you know like one of the

you know my dad drank a lot I remember

one time he took me to a party he was

like a family party he was like after a

christening or something like that

um

and he was he got so drunk and they

threw him out he had a fight with

someone in the party and he was he got

thrown up

and I remember having to like oh you

know maybe like 10 11 tops having to

carry him home

literally down the street like carry

this guy home

um to to my Grands to his mums you know

being chased by the police in the car

you know

him pushing my head down in the back I

just remember that image of him going

like look keep your head down and stuff

like that and he was getting chased by

police and I laugh about it now it's

more on an easy laugh this happened this

is not me being like proud of any of

this it's just those were my images

those are my images and memories of like

being with my dad but without fail my

mom said you want to go back

I'll go back you know I wanted a dad he

weren't the best dad you know but I

wanted someone there and kind of

eventually when I realized when I got a

bit older and I was kind of angry with

him for how he treated me it became

I'm gonna find other

figures other Dead figures other role

models in my community

um so the you know the local Bad Boys

the local dealers

they became

that's to me you know and I started to

to follow in their footsteps a bit you

know what I mean and adopt the same

attitude adopt the same Swagger

um you know I think even joining Soul

solid was

was never about music for me in the

beginning it was about belonging it was

about like it was the first time

you know I was part of a gang and there

was a lot of older men in there in that

group that looked after me and I took

care of me and seemingly at the time

loved me you know what I'm saying as

much as you know as far as I was

concerned so

I spent a lot of years bouncing around

like that the the funny thing is about

it is I was having success throughout

this this you know throughout this

process like

making films and successful TV shows and

music and stuff like that like

so I guess that I had Talent you know I

had a gift

that was shining through but

um

learning how to be a man

I didn't I didn't get I didn't know you

know I thought that was aggression I

thought that was

don't take no from anyone you know

what I mean don't cry don't take no

be hard

you know try and stand up for yourself

but emotionally I was incapable of the

other stuff that really

builds the real picture of what a man is

where does the anger come from in that

situation of like abandonment meeting a

father the father not meeting the

expectation that you want him to be

you're I often hear it with um kids like

you're desperate for your father to like

be a father and you you repeatedly give

them another chance to be that person

and they continue to let you down over

and over and over again and it's funny

because I've sat here with like child

psychologists and gabo mate and all of

these Geniuses that study children at a

young age and

um it's funny how the one thing that

Gabel said to me who's maybe like the

number one child

psychologist in the world said to me he

was like children in any context think

everything's about them they're

narcissists so if the parents were

arguing they interpret that as something

about them and if they so even in the

context of what you've described your

father's Behavior there

you almost

he's got his own problem clearly but you

interpret it as meaning something about

you of course yeah and do you unders

have you been able to understand what

the interpretation was how you

interpreted that situation

um

and I think not in not in that much

detail but I guess

you know surface wise that that I wasn't

good enough you know I can only say that

because of how I've treated myself

um

because I never I generally generally I

never think

I'm good enough

to be doing

anything that I'm doing you know I

always feel like there's always like a

sly little bit of meanness like they're

gonna catch me out next week like I'm I

shouldn't have this opportunity you know

I always pla I'm always going to make

the most of it I'm always going to prove

to people that I'm good enough to be

here but I'm always there's always that

niggling doubt of what the other

person's thinking about me you know and

um

and that's something that I'm still

working on today I'm still working on

the whole process of understanding like

um you know someone else's opinion of me

is none of my business you know what I'm

saying like and just accepting that you

know going into a room and if I see

people talking in the corner wondering

are they talking about me you know

having those like that sort of thought

process is tough but I think it stems

from

um rejection

I think it stems from you know being

abandoned slowly I mean I hate to use

that word but because you know my mom my

mum will be

upset about me using that terminology

bro because she never understood and

bless her you know actually my mom's a

very intelligent woman but one thing she

couldn't understand emotionally was the

fact that I still wanted him you know

and even you know up until he died and

after he died there was loads of moments

where

I was broken

and she would she was just like what is

wrong with you like why you know you

didn't really know him like that like

why are you you know she just didn't get

that

yeah I just wanted him to be proud you

know if anything you know I'd just love

him to see me now I'd love him to

understand like

who have become what I've achieved I

think in the beginning that was more

about

that was like a stick your finger up

sort of thing like even without you

I did great you know

um but the reality is like the last

encounter I had with him was the most

beautiful encounter

um ever you know maybe I've ever had

with any person that I love like and

he said some things to me that really

have stuck with me you know really I

changed my life going forward but

you know he didn't he didn't care

he was like and I mean he cared about me

but he didn't care about the stuff that

I was doing he was like that's

meaningless it's like

you know all of that can be taken away

at any time you know I'm glad you've Got

Talent I'm glad you feel fulfilled in

like what you're trying to achieve in

life when your life goes on that but

I wouldn't care if you did that or you

didn't it'd still be my son and I'd

still love you as much as I do and

he was always concerned about my fight

my fight for perfection

because I spend a lot of time like

trying to dig deep to make things

perfect right and

it's only now I know that nothing

nothing can be perfect there's no such

thing you know

and I think I eventually understood like

you know it's not always gonna go

my way right I have to be slightly more

willing to

to adapt and to accept that

um and when I have been

more willing to accept it

um

good things have happened you know I

gotta be open to it

he passed away in 2005 right yeah yeah

and by that time

you would

sort of rekindled your relationship to

some degree I when I was reading through

I think it's so solid

um page 12 you referred to him at that

time as a waste of space

which I guess was a reflection of how

you were feeling about him at that time

yeah I mean it's so funny you bring that

book up because

[Music]

I don't even I won't even read that book

really I don't even think I've ever read

it if I'm honest review and I mean yeah

I mean there's not that much to read if

I'm honest it's a lot of pictures but

um but yeah probably that's I mean

that's how I felt for a lot of the time

I think those last two weeks

when I was in I was shooting Get Rich or

Die try and I was in Canada he forced

his way out

to come and see me because

you know he knew how I felt about him

and he knew he only had weeks left to

live and he was like look I have to have

to come and see you

and he came and he lived with me for

those like two weeks

and I was already in the process of like

so I had this thing back then that I was

gonna die when I was like 33 I'd been

I've been something that I said to my

mum from a young age and she was like

randomly one day at like six seven he

was like you're gonna die at 33 or

whatever

and she's like I don't know where you

got that from but you've been obsessed

with that

and as an adult I was obsessed with the

fact that I was gonna die young right I

wasn't going to survive past that age

so I got someone to start filming me

every day and I got a friend to just

start documenting my like daily life on

camera

and

when I went to Canada to shoot I took

the camera with me and just said look

I'll get some like some footage myself

um when you're not while you're not here

my dad came and I just decided to turn

the camera on

so I did so every night you know while

he was there he was like you know go and

get me some weed this guy had lung

cancer and could hardly breathe he's

like I'm gonna be some weed and you know

I'll get him some drink and stuff like

that and we'll be sitting there for

hours like

for hours and hours and I just put the

camera down on the table and that and

just filming and just ask him the most

random questions just about life like

um you know where was you

where was he at this time where was you

that time whatever

and the guy was like

for context when I was in prison I was

in prison in like 2001 right and he

wrote to me a few times and it was the

first time I understood that my dad was

illiterate like he couldn't read or

write

so these letters were so like it's just

up man it was just like I was

like I had no idea that he had that

issue

and I read these letters I was like wow

so that

gave me another level to my hate for him

it was like

now you're dumb as well like yeah do you

know what I mean it was like

yeah I really don't like it like I don't

know so it was evil but it was just

another excuse for me not to like him

right

um

so cut back to being in Canada

he um

I sat down with him and filmed them

and found out that he was one of the

most intelligent people I know

just from being Street wise just from

life experience to get on saying like it

it actually burnt me because I didn't

want him to know anything I didn't want

him to have anything to really offer me

in the end when I delved deeper into who

he was as a person but all the things I

was going through with women with life

with you know what I mean it was like he

had a wealth of knowledge that he could

speak to me about he couldn't write it

down couldn't really articulate it

in the greatest way but just listening

to his kind of anecdotal sort of stories

and whatever

I got what I needed to get from it and I

filmed him kind of going through it

um

but there was also like a huge fear as

well you know I realized in that moment

that

he had he had genuine excuses for being

the person he was I mean he grew up he

didn't have the greatest upbringing you

know he was in care

he was slightly neglected by his own

parents you know and

you know he was the bad kid of the bunch

and he just kind of got pushed out and

that kind of led to his life and things

happened etc etc but I understood it

from his point of view when I heard him

talk about it and I was like actually

okay I can see why you would be the

person that you are and actually maybe

you did me a favor by not being there

too much because who would I be you know

would I be the person I am today and

um but then you know after realizing I

love this guy and I'm enjoying spending

time with him and we were like good

friends and we went to clubs to give her

out there this guy's like

you know thin

like way for Finn like on death's

doorstep

and he was making the effort to come out

with me and you know Rave and do all of

this stuff

and um

but at night

at bedtime I slayed in my bed awake

every night just staring at the ceiling

thinking he's gonna die here because

he was just coughing all through the

night man it was like you know like he

was coughing up his lungs like

I was like what

I was praying that it didn't happen you

know there

um

and then he died man he'd like you know

he left

left literally got off the plane

they rushed him to hospital because he's

he was going on the plane rushing to

hospital he died

um whilst I was filming and

you know it wasn't the best way that I

found out

um

I was filming at the time I was doing a

scene with 50.

and it was like a really emotional scene

um

outside on location

and

the vibe just changed on set like

you know in between takes everyone

stopped talking and it was quiet it was

like this and like

The Producers were just like looking at

me

and I was like nah I knew

do you know me something had happened I

knew something was wrong

and they was like look we're gonna take

a break just

go and call home

you need to call home actually

so I went to my train line called my

partner at the time and she was like

sorry man

I mean he's gone so I was

tough it was tough it was tough moment

this tough moment

um

yeah and I was I was broken

I was broken I never realized

it would affect me that much

broke me

and um

crazy but the one thing I remember from

that moment is I went to my trailer I

broke down some of the actors came like

Troy Bryant she came in and she was just

like just hugged me and I was just

crying and stuff

and 50 came in and was

he won't remember this and I know it

wasn't malice or is there any bad

intentions but he was like

I'm sorry to hear about your dad

and it just started talking about a

scene to someone you know when someone's

like sorry to hear about your dad man

anyway

um whatever and I was like

you know talking to him after is like

he's been through some

some you know that's made them

really like

um I hadn't been through anything like

that

you know at that point that was my first

real

kind of close encounter with

death

like and

having someone that meant so much to me

and pass away

um but my first instinct was you know to

work to continue working I continued

working

I flew back for the funeral

for literally one day

did the funeral and then I left I went

back to work

um

I just plowed through and I didn't

grieve

and I haven't

you haven't I don't think I have you

know I don't

I don't know what you call it because

even like now I want to break down now

just talking about I don't know it's

just like

2005 right it's like 18 years or

whatever so I mean is that an indication

that I haven't

dealt with it enough

yeah I don't know

the feelings you have towards his his

loss are they are they complicated

are they because are there unanswered

conversations are there is there is

there any regrets in there is there what

are what were those feelings because

your mother as you said is was surprised

by your reaction to his loss

from him dying I lost

I went off the rails a bit

you know I went off the rails a bit when

the sense of

my ego took over and I lost

any

sort of spiritual

connection that I had with

life or the universe up until that point

you know I'm I'm never been the most

religious person but I've always been a

believer in

in like the universal law right like in

in if I give I will get

you know in there in the in a way that

things are meant to be you know anything

that's

happened in my life

has been

manifested in some sort of way you know

when I wanted to be in so solid I knew

who so solid were before they knew who I

was you know and I was I made a I looked

in the mirror one day and said I'm going

to be in that group you know and that

was

I was a little boy on the streets

working out ways to

to be and the universe can constantly

bring in people around my situation

that was connected to that situation

that was Bridging the Gap for me you

know so I I only had to be I only had to

you know focus and believe or whatever

so I believe in all that all that stuff

but when it comes to when my dad passed

I like I lost a lot of that

those beliefs I lost a lot of that

understanding and I became slightly like

yeah just lost you know lost I was

you know I drank more I you know I I did

I cared less about myself

about where I was going and about you

know what I wanted in life and stuff and

um

yeah that led me on a on a different

a different sort of Journey you know

um

took me to some dark places if I'm

honest Dark Places

yeah man just like

like definitely not making

decisions purposely making decisions in

life that

we're gonna come back to haunt me you

know

um

they'll come in a big thing for me was

like

my relationship at the time

um

I gave up on you know I gave up on it

um

I became quite like promiscuous

you know I abused the the

celebrity that I had you know like I I

gave into the the Temptation that was

around me a lot more

um

you know and I really hurt my my first

partner

um by being that person and actually

that resulted in

in me having two kids out of my

relationship you know so two of my

children

who I love daily

um

you know came from from that situation

but I think that was like a big part of

my like

you know my reckless sort of rebellious

sort of attitude and I I mean the only

way I can put it is that I I became I

came before everyone at that point you

know me and my ego and like the world

revolved around me and I think before

that point even though I did have

moments of being quite Wayward and

whatever I was still

um

caring loving Ashley you know

that's how I that's how I grew up

um

but yeah I definitely came out of my box

from that point on

um and I I guess to me at the time it

was like

you only live once

you know I don't fear anyone whatever

happens happens it was that whole thing

that was going on but

um

I'm still still paying the price for

those

those years now

I think this is fascinating I looked at

the back end of our YouTube channel and

it says that since this channel started

69.9 percent of you that watch it

frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe

button so I have a favor to ask you if

you've ever watched this Channel and

enjoyed the content if you're enjoying

this episode right now please can I ask

a small favor please hit the Subscribe

button helps this channel more than I

can explain and I promise if you do that

to return the favor we will make this

show better and better and better and

better and better that's the promise I'm

willing to make you if you hit the

Subscribe button do we have a deal

those tapes

um have you still got them

it's another upsetting story man like

so I set up a production company me and

a good friend of mine at the time

but

I was a nightmare to deal with you know

this the demons

were there and I've I don't I didn't

give a hundred percent

into this company at all so like a lot

of the weight was left on them

to kind of hold it up and then I think

this person this guy was going through

his own

troubles as well at the time with his

dad and his family and stuff so

you know it was a disaster in the end

but

either way you know we had an archive of

footage that we created from filming

that we never knew what was going to use

it for but all the stuff I filmed

my dad went into this archive

um and when the company actually was

dissolved and

you know we kind of fell out at that

point

he took all the tapes and the footage

and for how many years now I've been

asking to get it back because we don't

speak you know but for maybe 10 years

now I've been trying to send messages

through people I know know him and stuff

like that and I've just had no response

you know and the last thing I want to do

is

go into some legal sort of

battle for it or whatever but

it's the last you know the other stuff I

can let go but the stuff with my dad

like it's the last

things I've got I don't have pictures of

him you know I know I don't have like

family portraits and anything like that

all I really have is those those tapes

and they're like

they're like my um

do you know that movie um things to do

in Denver when you're dead yeah

they're like you know it's like that to

me it's like gold dust it's like

I can I could probably watch those tips

and it could probably help me through a

lot of tough times that I face now or

maybe even my kids you know maybe even

um help the boys somehow so

it'd be nice to get them back it's it's

really sad it's like it's hurtful man

and uh and I hope one day I can resolve

that situation

do you even know if that person still

has them

do you know what I mean I could be

sitting there with the you know thinking

that he has them but he might not I'm

pretty sure he does pretty sure

that last two weeks with your father

before he passed away

um my first question is did you did you

know he was going to pass away soon

and um

what did you take from that those two

weeks of sitting with him and asking

what is the what did you walk away with

that you didn't have in that moment you

knew he was much more intelligent than

you ever knew but the the lessons you

speak of that you've have stayed with

you ever since and that have seemingly

guided you

what were those lessons I knew he was

going to pass away

um

I hadn't accepted it yeah you know but

it was obvious that he was going to die

right it was obvious

um

lessons

um I think is I got from it what I what

I

one of the key things I needed and I

think one of the key things you need

from

knowing your dad is

knowing where you come from

I think that's such a it's just such a

key point in

being a dad like if my son can look at

me I can look at my son and kind of

he knows who I am he knows where I came

from he knows what my values are you

know what I expect of him and stuff like

that then I think it makes him easier

for him going out there to be just a

person to be a human being when you are

when you're constantly looking for that

reference point right

you're lost you know and and

when I spent those two weeks with him I

kind of got a better understanding of oh

okay this is why I

do that funny thing with my eye when you

don't mean I'm lying or this is why I

feel this way at this point and

you know he was powerful as a man he

didn't have anything

didn't have anything but

he used some sort of confidence and

charm right that

you can't buy like you know what I mean

um

and I felt that and I saw that in him

and it made me understand about

I should feel more like that by myself

do you know what I mean

I should feel more

powerful look you don't have to be a

you know when you're

you know when you're confident

doesn't have to come across that way

but he had he had that like that level

of confidence with like a

some beautiful sort of humility

that went with it but you know

and that was my dad that was my dad's so

it made me know that I can be that

person you know

that I don't need to doubt myself as

much as I do

um and he Stripped Away From Me He

constantly in that little time I spent

with me Stripped Away all the because I

was like hiding myself

in success

I've got this I've got this watch I've

got this car this Co and staying in this

apartment and this and that or whatever

and he didn't give a about any of

that

and I don't know whether he was doing it

on purpose but he genuinely was like

well I mean it's it's good I mean but

and he he

knew a lot more about me than

and thought he did

so

he'd paid attention

somehow

um

but I walked away from that

meeting that encounter knowing

that he loved me

and knowing that he was proud of me you

know he was proud

um

and that was good enough

what would you say to him if he was

listening now

um

I think I I didn't tell him

thank you

no I I hope he didn't get on that plane

feeling like

in a feeling that I was still unhappy

with him

because I treated him quite bad you know

especially when I mean when he was going

through his cancer when he told me he

had cancer I was like

whatever like I don't even believe you

you're probably just saying it for me

because you want me to talk to you yeah

that's how I that was my attitude

towards towards him in that period of

time that's how much anger I was holding

so

you know I let go of a lot of that

whilst we was together

but

I do wonder if there was any doubt in

his mind when he left you know because I

couldn't you know it's not like I was

like you know all over him and touchy

feely and kissing him and you know

rubbing him and stroking him and stuff I

still kept a bit of a

you know a toughness about it like I'm

not gonna let you in like that you know

but I do

I do hope

that he could read between the lines and

know that

I'd

softened slightly and like let him in a

bit

if you can see all the success you've

had now what do you reckon you'd think

all that you've done

it'd probably try and tell me like you

know

it'd be like you're not doing this right

you're not doing that right you could

improve in this area in that area and

whatever but uh probably butt heads

about it but you know that'd be all good

I I take that now in hindsight you know

I mean I'd take it you're trying to be

your dad I mean that's it yeah yeah

that's it mines do the same yeah

yeah some I I do Envy some of my

friends that I know like I've got really

good relationships with their dads and

dads have looked over their contracts

and

stuff like that you know I mean I've

been a major part of their life

you know I'm determined to do that for

my my kids if they ever need it in

hindsight though we we look at the some

of the most difficult things we've been

through and overcome and we understand

the correlation that has with

the better things about us all the

things that we're proud of like there's

often a surprising link between the

worst thing that's happened to us or the

worst trauma we've had and the best

thing that's happened to us and as I was

listening to all of that you know you

use this word talent at the very

beginning you said I must have had just

had a talent

but

I'm not necessarily sure what you mean

by talent because

um you grew up with an ability to have

um that talent in multiple areas you

were you had it in music you had it

acting in a very young age and there's

part of me that Wonders that you know

about the link of the things that you

went through in the circumstances you

were in and how that left you with this

trait you described as not quite ever

think in your work or you were good

enough how that actually all played into

your drive and ambition

to go that extra mile to work that extra

hour to spend an extra hour in the

editing studio and I often see in people

that when they have that feeling of like

some call it imposter syndrome I don't

like the term that they actually produce

better work because they end up becoming

the perfectionist that you your father

told you not to be so it's interesting

that there's a correlation there and

um well if I asked you

know because I was looking at this and

you start acting super young I'm

wondering how it's possible that at 15

years old you are not only joining one

of the most successful groups at the

time in so solid crew but you're also

acting on the BBC 15 16 7 17 years old

you're doing two things that most people

never I mean if if one person had just

been in so solid crew that would be a

success they would be a success but for

you to be doing both things at the same

time what have I missed here like what

is it about you that

um your character traits your philosophy

your mindset that you think has really

guided you through that process I'm

gonna I'm gonna struggle to really to

answer this Stephen if in all honesty

because

kind of involves

like um

it kind of involves digging myself up

a bit more than I'm comfortable with if

I'm honest

um

but

since we're here yeah another joke

um now I think it's more

look I don't I don't

I believe there's that some of that

charm that we spoke about that I saw in

my dad

I I know I have in me right so I have

the I had that ability I know how to

talk to people right I know if I kind of

if I get into a situation like this with

me and you like I can make people like

me you know what I mean

it's a little thing that I've got

um

and I try and

bring that out in the characters that I

play on the screen

um I think I always bring a bit of

myself

to the roles I play so as much as I'm

hiding behind these characters or

whatever

the engine room is Ashley

and if I can find ways

to

use my trauma to portray this I do

I think

outside of the ring when I say ring I'm

in the acting space

I'm humble you know I don't brag

keep it simple

and I treat people as good as I can you

know what I mean and I give back a lot

you know I'm always about like

trying to help other people

it's always been a part of me so I think

that's helped move me forward and I

think especially in in like within the

black community

you know where I was one of the first to

kind of break through when there was

only a few black faces on screens and a

lot of black people that are you know

maybe in their 40s now have grown up

watching me

um that's the Ashley that they know

you know I think I'm never

I've always been quite accessible

um

I've never like turned my back

on

you know where I came from you know for

some reason in some way I've managed to

stay in that place where it's like

oh it's Ash yeah yeah you know what I

mean I'm like

um you ever lost sight of yourself yes

like

people are comfortable around me this is

why I like still to this day you know a

lot of people are like

bro why are you just walking down the

street or why are you just on the train

or why are you just sitting in this like

because I can because people don't

really

you know they don't really want to like

I don't have the

you know I mean the Justin Bieber effect

on people like you don't have to shut

down stores or whatever when I come in

like people look and stuff like that but

it's like I just feel like they've got

they used to me yeah yeah you know what

I mean and I think like I mean I'll

straighten off point a bit but I think

like all of this

as part of my character as part of my

personality ties into what I've been

working for so long you know why I've

managed to maintain relationships in the

industry and

um why I have a solid

like fan base you know solid base of

supporters that will show up

to my shows to watch my films or watch

do you know what I mean why it makes us

to invest in me yeah it makes it and we

often don't think about the role that

people skills will play over a long

period of time but it's like a force

that's either it's like an invisible

force like your reputation in terms of

how you've shown up for people that will

um when you zoom out

we'll catch up with you either way For

Better or For Worse you know what I mean

yeah that's it let's call it like

invisible PR it's like what how you've

treated people along the way well and

people don't often focus on that because

there's other things they might try and

focus on but that Force that's kind of

just

making sure people call you when there's

the opportunity or they recommend you in

a room you're not in and that all comes

down to everything you've just said

there if I'm honest reviews help me so

much in the sense of I've made mistakes

along the way

you know I've made mistakes

that I've not necessarily been public

mistakes I'm I've never say that I'm a

perfect person

but when I have made those mistakes

people that have known me have supported

me

you know what I mean so because

you know I've been good I've been good

to people like so

um

you know when we live in a world today

where

you know any minute people can turn

their back on you any minute people can

you know cancel you or whatever they

want to call it and and that happens day

in and day out

um

so you know I feel like I feel really

proud of the fact that

I've been as genuine

as I can be

coming up if I was one of your kids then

and I come to you and I say Dad listen I

want to be an actor

no

well no I couldn't I couldn't I mean I

couldn't tell them no but I I would be

worried why

it's just hard it's it's a hard

industry to crack yeah but you did it

Dad yeah I did it but I don't know how

I'm yet to know what the blueprint is

it's tough you know my students at

Kingdom asked me this all is all the

time and I'm like all I can teach you is

like how to prepare

how it's going to happen when it's gonna

happen or whatever that is like it's an

anomaly man that's like it comes when it

comes right and you just got to be kind

of ready for it at the time but yeah I

mean my kids

and the worst thing about it is like

most of them probably are going to do

something

in entertainment I can see that

um so it's going to be tough it's going

to be tough for them it's going to be

tough for me

um but is it is a um

is a rocky road and it's a it's a tough

life and

but I will support them on the way what

is that so if I go if I was like that

what do you mean Rocky Road

Rocky Road meaning

you know for years I'd say only in the

last

10 years I've been financially stable

I've been acting all of my life

so not knowing sometimes how I was going

to feed my children

you know

what was going to happen next you know

just whether I was coming or going it

was just unstable

it's just unstable

um

and

the rejection is immense man like you

have to be really

tough in places when it comes to

80 of it is people just telling you no

this ain't gonna happen

you're not going to be able to do it

that's probably not going to work sorry

we don't want you not this time you were

great but you know what I'm saying it's

like that a lot of the time what people

get to see is it is that little ten

percent that works why don't you listen

to them

because I you know I spoke to someone

close to you and they told me they said

it's funny because earlier on un I'm not

gonna you weren't good at saying no to

people right because you said you have

these people please attendancies when I

spoke to people close to you they said

you're not good at hearing though either

as in someone says no to you it turns

into driving motivation

yeah well so why don't you listen to

them when all these people rejected you

and said no it's not going to work

you're not going to be in this movie or

this thing

it's kind of phone me a bit that is now

I'm thinking about who you spoke to

our team they say that you know you're

when you when someone says no to you

like you can't direct Ashley yeah you

know yeah yeah I I mean I mean

I have that but I'm not like I don't

have it in a way of like not in a rude

way but it's a motivation it does it

does yeah it does you know I stay when

I'm silent that's when people should

worry about me

because you know that's when I'm that's

what I'm thinking how to get around you

or how to do that thing that you

you said I can't do but

when someone says you can't do something

Ashley Walters you can't do that um how

does that feel

I don't like to I mean it doesn't feel

good it doesn't feel good

um especially when I know there's a way

especially when I know that I can

you know or I believe that okay

um I just prefer people to let me try

and if it fails then we can both agree

ah maybe it wasn't gonna work the way I

said it was and it would try a different

way or we don't revisit it

um

but I need the opportunity to

to bring how I feel to to the table and

yeah there have been times where I have

accepted

like it's not going to work or whatever

and I've regretted it after because

someone else has come and done it

um so I've I think I've become I've got

tougher with that over the years

and like the directing thing was one of

those things because I was told like you

know you can't direct it was my own show

that I created it was like now you

haven't got enough experience

like yeah I've watched some of the

directors you bought on here

that would be

I've got more experience than them I've

been I've been filming since I was like

seven

um

and to hear that is like you know it's a

kick in the teeth but

I went to you know I went to my business

partner after that I was like how do we

change this

and he was like well if you're serious

about it let's make a short film so

we're making a short film we might have

made a short film

got some money from Skye made this short

film

now that came out but I think actually

what happened in that process was

I liked it

I wasn't expecting to like directing so

much at that point it was about

you want experience I'm gonna get your

experience the best experience that you

could possibly have

um but actually throughout the process I

was like nah I like this man I enjoy

this process

um

and that's spiraled into me

do more yeah you said you talked about

Kingdom there um those students that

come to you that you Mentor that ask you

you know you said okay you can't

help them figure out how and when it's

going to happen but you can get them

prepared what is preparation for the

life you've lived

uh boy

um

well I make a I make a make a point of

always saying to them that if you've

come here trying to

um have my journey

you're gonna have to go to prison

you know lose your dad this that

whatever I told them all the negative

things that's happened because that's

what's made me so I was speaking to

Laura about this I was like look I can't

sit there and regret things that have

gone wrong because the truth is

if they had if those series of events

hadn't happened in the way they happened

on the days they happened I wouldn't be

sitting here now and I wouldn't have all

the great things that I have the kids

and this and that any little thing that

was different might have changed the

whole course of my life so I have to

accept that would you erase it would you

erase your dad passing going to prison

if there was a button in front of you

now no I couldn't no really I couldn't

well if I erased that then I might have

you know you know like that picture in

um in Back to the Future where he's like

he when he's not getting home or

something like and his brother starts to

fade away his sister starts to food it's

like if I raised that and brought my dad

back I might erase like four of my

children you know what I mean

actually Six Degrees of Separation you

might not be here

you never know right so

um no I couldn't I couldn't you have to

you have to live with it and I say this

to students it's like

so it's not about the journey it's about

how you use your journey and more

importantly

enjoying the journey

because I tell you now Stephen

it's not that enjoyable

where I am the the

best parts

of what I've achieved has been along the

way do you know what I mean the people

I've met the fun I've had doing things

the filming the memories this and that

or whatever actually the looking back

the challenges the people saying no so

what I had to do to get around that to

to get there and whatever it's actually

like I think when you clock the game

it's like oh

I'm not saying I've clocked it but I'm

saying I can see with the people that I

know that are like in that space where

they've kind of like there's not much

more to do

I think it's pretty boring

like I don't envy them

you know I don't envy them I may want

that Lambo but I don't envy where

they're at yeah yeah like you know that

space that they're in because there's

nothing much more to achieve it feels

like and I'm always like I have to have

a fix like I have to there has to be

something else like I'm very

can be very fickle like that like I can

be very focused and determined and

whatever and now like I'm doing this

Disney show and it's like I've shot the

Disney show and you know I'm editing but

I want it to end now

because I want to do another show so let

me play out this the scenario then

actually oh it's funny because as you

were saying that I was imagining someone

coming into your life and saying Ashley

you can't work for another two years you

just gotta sit at home but then I

remembered we we had that oh yeah the

pandemic yeah

how did you respond to that not well

sitting down is not not good for me

and I met my wife and I we can't

we can really go on holiday together

because what she wants to do is

read books she didn't get to read and

lie on sun lounges as a staff and I'm

like

I can't I can't live like that you know

I need to be doing something Something's

Gotta happen or be happening what if it

doesn't

for me it's uncomfortable it's

uncomfortable

what was the pandemic like in the first

couple of weeks sat at home alone

nothing can't go to the gym can't move

that was tough man that was tough like

taking away

my work from me and you know all of

those

all of that talk of me being that hard

love to be there more with the kids and

love to speak with my wife a lot more

whatever I realized now I didn't I I

weren't ready for it I weren't ready for

24 hours

with my family I wasn't used to it

I was always used to having a a release

or knowing that all right I'm gonna have

this week full-on at home but then next

week I'm going there I'm doing this I'm

doing that so there was always something

coming

um but

yeah it was a it was a struggle it it

opened up a lot of

um

a lot of things in our relationship

definitely I mean me and the missus you

know

um

we dealt with a lot

yeah we argued a lot throughout that

period of time it was like it was tough

it was a lot of things I didn't realize

irritated me

you know maybe about her and vice versa

you know she realized there's a lot of

things that

irritated her about me

um I guess because we're spending so

much time together

um if I was to fly on the wall in your

household at that time what would I what

Ashley would I have seen

um in that first couple of weeks yeah I

mean them depressed no they were sad

depressed yeah slightly yeah not worried

about I mean worried about the state of

the game worried about where we was I

mean I was one of those people that was

worriedless if I was am I gonna die do

you know what I mean that was like one

of my first thoughts like

did you have a breakdown

no I don't think I had a breakdown I

don't think I had a breakdown

I kind of know where you're yeah I mean

there was I had a moment I did have a

moment because I think

I think the pressure

the pressure of not it was it was hard

for me not to

not to have the choice to work

like it was hard for me not to have the

choice to do

certain things with my life

um

you know and um

yeah it took it it took its toll on me I

think I don't know I don't know if I'll

go as far as saying I had a breakdown

but I was very depressed I was very I

was very low

that's very low the reason I asked the

question is because someone who I think

you remind me of myself in many ways

where I think at some level I'm getting

some of myself esteem and some of my

self-worth from my work like by by being

successful in my work I think I feel

like I'm good in myself to some degree

it's probably an illusion but it makes

me feel that way it's probably the same

reason people buy Lamborghinis like it

is an illusion it's not going to fill

the void but it keeps me stable the

chaos keeps me stable

um and that's why I ask the questions

because it's one of those moments in our

lives where for someone like you where

your work is requires you to be on sets

mine I could still do for my laptop

right but for you you have to you have

to be on sets and all that stuff shut

down

we lock down

um so how does one because I'm guessing

here that you have a the same

relationship with your work on some

level where it makes you feel like

you're you're good yeah yeah like you're

enough yeah yeah I mean yeah

you're right you're hitting in the head

I mean I can't I can't

articulate it any better I guess that's

what happened it stripped a bit of me

away and I became

a civilian do you know what I mean it

was like

the the little part of me that made me

slightly different to to the people

around me had been taken away and I just

had to be Ashley

and just and actually sit with my

thoughts and deal with my flaws you know

you'd spend a long time distracting

yourself yeah 100 but it became evident

you know I was drinking a little bit too

much I smoked a lot

um you know I was biting my nails

I know this thing sounds stupid but to

me they were like

things I'd never been able to conquer

um and

became more apparent and evident where I

had nothing else to do sitting with

yourself and sitting with your thoughts

um

how's that for you it wasn't great

wasn't great at the time

um it's not I mean it's not always great

now

I'm a strong believer in that

um that voice in my head

is a mug

is not the right person for me to be

listening to really I don't believe

anyone should listen to voices in there

if I'm honest review

your head is

an extension of you right it's going to

be trying to like it's bias it's gonna

be telling you majority of the time

telling you the you want to hear

you know telling you stuff that's not

really happening but

you know trying to justify I I just

think you know why is he a mug that

voice in your head because um he's made

me make some terrible

decisions in my opinion

um

nowadays I try to uh

try to quiet and

the voice as much as possible Right

um

and connect

I think that's the most important thing

to do like if I can

if I'm sitting there thinking something

and I'm

no I don't know the answer something

maybe emotional something

it's like it makes more sense

to call my mom

want to call someone else you know I

mean or to speak to open up to my wife

about it and go what do you think about

this

and get someone else's perspective and

then make

decisions but I feel like

you know as emotional creatures as we

are as humans and we know a lot of a lot

of our the moves that we made that make

are based on

you know emotion anger fear you know

jealousy this that whatever

I just think you don't you should never

be making decisions

in that in that frame of mind you know

you should always

have someone to bounce something off but

I just don't think the voice in your

head I mean look in my in my opinion

um not my life the voice in my head has

never been

the best voices I've done some

some of the most stupid things

because I

said to myself it's the right thing to

do the personality of that voice

angry you said

yeah at times

look there's a there's there's a bit

there's a very vengeful

person somewhere inside of me I believe

we've all got that part of us you know

um

some of the things that go through my

head sometimes scare me

um

because I've been hurt

and I've been hurt and sometimes it

feels like the easiest thing to do is

hurt other people

but I'm just glad that I have the

ability

to control

those feelings and to and to think about

things and to kind of always

in in any how I can do it move forward

with with love and I have a clear

understanding that

you know I hurt people hurt people so if

you can if you can

if you can forgive

you know you're not you're doing

yourself a great favor first and

foremost if you can forgive if I can

forgive the people that hurt me right do

you forgive

everybody in your life I don't think

I've got around to forgiving everyone I

think I do carry a lot of a lot of

baggage but I'm working on it and I'm

working on it

um

and I'm working on making amends with

other people as well that

maybe don't forgive me

you know

um but what I do know is the people that

maybe I don't forgive they probably

forgotten who I am

you know but I'm sitting there thinking

about them

all the time and it's like so who's

really hurt

you're hurting yourself yeah that's the

nature isn't it of holding The Grudges

which we will do but it just it does not

no damage to the other person does it I

remember reading that quote one day and

it was like forgiving someone is like

letting a prisoner go and realizing and

doing so that you were the prisoner the

whole time like you can imagine opening

the gates to the jail and seeing

yourself run out yeah yeah

you said something quite curious there

which gave me a train of thought which

is sometimes I just want to speak to my

my wife

Danielle about it now speaking to your

wife

about it when I think about the other

points you've given me about not being

like grown up the way you did you've

emotion not coming naturally to you

I'm guessing you like me in some

respects where because I having

the kind of conversations that you need

to have to keep a woman in your life

don't come naturally to me either I

don't I still don't even call my parents

but I'd never call my parents mum or Dad

I just don't I didn't have that

affection growing up so if you don't

build the ability to communicate in a

certain way and to listen in a certain

way and show emotion in a certain way

you have no chance of being in a loving

committed relationship and getting all

the benefits of that what Journey have

you been on with like because it's funny

because I was thinking about that moment

where you look down together and the war

and much of the war is like

either one person or two people that

don't know how to communicate properly

yeah that was that was the war the war

was because Dan is like

she's the most loving

caring

tactile

to a person I've ever met in my life

like

to the point that when I first met her

um when I first met her no when we first

started dating I met her a long time

before we started dating right when we

first started dating

and I met her family

and I saw how a family

are together like

it made me sick

and I know now that was it was jealousy

because I just never

I love my mum and I know my mom loves me

but

we can go without talking for two weeks

we're not all over each other hugging do

you know what I mean like we just have

that really clean

relationship yeah yeah yeah yeah it's

like that like

um whereas Dan's family was completely

different I'd come home

you know to the to to the flat and

they'll all be lying on the sofa

together like lying in each other's laps

her her brothers her mum or whatever

then her dad would come out the kitchen

oh you were right Ash whatever it's just

like this whole about and in the

beginning I was like oh this is great

and on me like I I can't

I can't deal with this

this is weird you know that was my first

reaction this is weird

but um

I've learned to love it I become a part

of that family and I've learned to

realize that I want some of that

I wanted some of that you know I wanted

some of that doesn't make me love my

like family any less

but it's nice to get

some of that loving like some of that

you know physical

stuff

um so yeah that's where Dan comes from

so her side of the street is always like

I'm like

strap your boots up

something's gone wrong how do we solve

it

it's getting cracking and she wants to

be like

I want to talk about what went wrong

and I just can't understand like

sometimes we're like chocolate cheese

I'm just like

you want to sit there for an hour

telling me

how you feel how you feel and I don't

get that and I do have to like I need to

understand that more slowly but surely

like I'm getting there slowly but surely

I will

I'll come a step closer but I'm quite

you know I can be quite cold

as a husband and it doesn't that doesn't

work with her and she's a feisty woman

as well so she's not scared to tell you

it reminds me of myself and my

relationship but at the same time I know

that that's exactly what I need

because imagine if I was in a

relationship with someone like me

it would be all too one way so it's it's

almost like the other person is a

counterbalance and they're pulling aside

out of me that's actually beneficial for

me and I've seen it's beneficial for me

but I've given it willingly yeah yeah

you know yeah I'm kicking and screaming

okay I'll kick it and scream it she's

gonna be cracking up at this because I

don't even know whether she understands

that I know yeah yeah and so you know

but I do I get it and I struggle I

struggle with it but it's something that

I like you know on a daily basis I'm

just trying to

to give it more and you're right you're

completely right it's like

it helps me

and everything else that I'm doing kind

of bringing that side of me out do you

have any ideas why where that came from

I guess in one respect I think about it

in my own context I go I never learn

that no one ever told me that so it's

like alien Behavior but there is a part

of me that at a deep level I feel

uncomfortable with it like there's

something about when my girlfriend wants

to sit down for an hour and talk about

how she's feeling and the situation

we're in and stuff where I kind of get a

bit of an allergic reaction to it for um

and I kind of want to run and I kind of

just want to like what can I do to fix

it now like do you know I mean what can

I

press by say just to end it to fix it

because something about me feels

uncomfortable sharing my emotions

is it a defense thing in me you know I'm

saying like is it

or did I just not learn how to do it

or is it both I think it's I think

It's a combination of both like I I know

for me I definitely haven't learned

how how to to do that

um I don't know how to

I'll send it to a friend yesterday I was

like because he was like he was talking

about his wife and stuff and like she

she's working now and he's not working

and her job finishes at like two in the

morning she gets home about three and

then she wants to tell him

about her day whilst they're in bed

and he's like

he doesn't want to hear it because it

makes him feel like

he wants to go and beat up her boss

because you know the stuff that she's

telling him is like so he gets angry

about it and it's like starts to hold

resentments or whatever

but he keeps his mouth shut and I said

I can't do that

because what happens with me is I

I cannot just listen

you know I mean I've worked that out now

like I

it burns me to keep my mouth shut

because

I want to solve it for you

you're a fixer yeah I'm I'm a fixer I

feel like

that's what I need to do there's no

world

where I feel like you're telling me

something just for me to listen to it

like that's so crazy to me so I feel

like when you're telling me something

it's like all right so you want me to

you know you could be just saying I walk

down the street I fell over or whatever

and

you know that happened like last week or

whatever I'm like so should we book an

appointment do you need to should we

x-ray or like I need to do something and

I think the the key to

you know but that's my mum was has been

like that you know my mum was

shut up

how are you going to fix it uh so you

leave be quiet what you know what I mean

what's your next steps how are you going

to make this what you want to go there

write me a business plan

you know that's what I went through so

my life communication was for the

precursor to take some action yeah it

wasn't as a way to connect yeah it went

but let's sit down and just talk about

each other's days I was like

God that must be difficult for in terms

of like if I'm Danny your partner

she comes from that background she must

have taken her a lot of work to

understand you that it's not that you

don't love her

it's none of that because that's how

that must feel that coldness

um shall I be honest with you please

she's it feels like that to her now

yeah I I don't think she's

understands yeah I mean I'm I'm hoping

somewhere deep down she does because

she still

working with me have you told her though

have you told her this because I feel

like you probably find it easier to talk

to me than about the sort of person that

I am yeah all of the stuff you said like

you said today

yeah I mean we've done a lot of we do a

lot of work on it we're in counseling

you know we're in counseling

um every weekend

that we discuss it you know we talk

about it I don't think I think the issue

has been up until that point being in a

room where someone's slightly mediating

and helping to pull things out of you I

haven't felt comfortable enough to be

honest with her you know personally

um

but I think that's happening more now

and there's ways you know we're learning

ways to kind of

talk about issues that we have with each

other and you're a dad now so you've got

kids so you must think about how that

generational cycle you talked about with

your father then you is then gonna play

out in the Next Generation 100 yeah I

mean you know I carry a lot of fear for

that because

it hasn't gone great with all of my

children you know I don't have the

greatest relationship with all of my

kids especially my older ones

um you had you had those when you were

17 those kids at 17 18 years old yeah

um you went to jail at 19 years old so

you were absent for much of that period

yeah a lot of the first bits of their

life and then when I wasn't I was out

you know I was touring I was me doing

music and then I was acting and then

and then uh I mean if I'm honest with

you like the other other times like I

didn't I didn't care enough I didn't

you know I cared about them I loved my

children but

I didn't want

their

the adult responsibilities that came

with it and I didn't want to sacrifice

you know what I needed to do

um in order to give to them so for a

long period of time I was like

I was not I was not there in the way

that I should be and I know that I felt

I pay I'm slightly paying the price for