it feels like you've lived an impossible

life but with it came over

I just needed to be able to look at

myself and not hate myself

the first black man to become

editor-in-chief of British Vogue one of

the fashion Industries biggest names

he's single-handedly

how's your father know he would have

slit your throat I grew up petrified of

him each day I was being told you're

going to be a lawyer or a doctor I knew

that wasn't going to happen at the age

of 13 I came from another country 16 I

was modeling 18 I was an editor it was

quite fast work was everything for me

there was this notion that women of

color uncovers don't sell I knew I would

need to do something about it I didn't

just create a magazine that looked good

but it's so financially successful

I was just so consumed with work and

work was where I felt like an imposter

really I mean I never look at anything

I've done and think this is amazing I

wouldn't sleep that leads you to

drinking and that leads you to drugs you

always have to fight but that fight

comes at a cost I woke up one day and I

saw these black markings in my vision I

was so scared I knew after that that I

had to change my life you sit here as

one of the most successful people in

your industry what would 51 year old

Edward say to 18 year old Edward the one

regret I do have is

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[Music]

it feels like you've lived and traveled

an impossible life

you sit here as one of the most

successful people in your industry but

when I read about your earliest context

that's why I use the word impossible

can you give me the information I need

to know to understand how the man that

sits in front of me today

got here and I'm referring to that early

information

the context that molded you into the man

you are today

thank you for having me

um so as you read in the book I grew I

was born in a city called takoradi in

Ghana West Africa

my dad was in the Army he was a major

um my mother was the seamstress and we

lived on a military base in the town so

already there was

that was a weird

um way of growing up where you are in a

town but you're not in the town you're

on the military base with its own sets

of rules and

and traditions so that's where I was and

my mother was a seamstress

and I grew up in love with clothes in

love with my mother and in love with

clothes and I was always with her you

know when her customers came in and my

mother had was one of those rare

women who had their own business

you know in the 70s in Africa she had

anatellier with about 40 women so I'd

spent days

just really helping her

fit women into clothes and you know

little African boys standing around the

corner listening to the gossip being

sued away but I always say

that's when I developed my love for

women

all women because you know my mother's

friends my aunts

we're all Bodacious women of different

sizes big women if you

you know if you want to put it that way

but they were just beautiful and

vivacious and alive so really that was

that was how um I grew up in Ghana I

mean you know I was always a sickly

child so I would always be with my

mother

a lot

and I really learned about sort of women

and what really makes them tick you know

I always say I can tell when a woman is

happy and addressed by the flick of a

wrist or a little Winds of the of the

nose and so my mother was a really great

influence I didn't know anything about

fashion

but I had an aunt who had a salon called

Dolly dots

and she was a hairdresser and that was

like paradise for me

and it was there that I discovered

magazines

there was a magazine called ebony which

is an American magazine that you'd get

every month another one called jet

and another one called time

and I would literally devour those pages

and

yeah I was I was really happy it was a

really happy childhood

and then we had to move to London

because there was a military coup and my

dad

from one day to the next had to leave

so that was the next chapter really

you were the fifth of six six children

and the the figure in that equation that

wasn't mentioned is your father

in your book you talk a lot about the

fear you had of your father growing up

can you tell me how that shaped you as a

Young Man I mean my father was a

military man he

was in the peace corpse from Ghana so

they spent

ages sort of

you know for creating peace in like

places like Liberia and the Middle East

and he was there that he wasn't but we

were petrified of him

um

when he was around you wouldn't play

outside

you know he expected us all to be home

studying and he was very authoritarian

very African very strict

so yes I was always very scared and you

know I was sort of a creative child

always drawing

illustrations of drawing women all the

time and that and I'll hear you know

your dad's coming and I'll just rip them

out because I was literally in fear

of him

and um my dad had to sleep when we laugh

about it now but when he got angry it

wasn't just with it would start with one

and then the anger will descend to

to me essentially number five

because my sister wasn't born then and

um yeah he was very terrifying to me in

all aspects but then my mother was just

the most creative

most you know incredibly warm motherhood

literally sort of you know here's the

paper here's the pen you know

come in the room there's this lady so so

her into the dress zip her up so I it

was very weird having my dad who was not

artistic in any way but so disciplined

you know and my mother who was just a

creative and it's really funny because

now I am literally both I am so

disciplined in my work so disciplined

there on time

and then also so creative on the other

hand so I got something from both but

yes in those early years my dad was a

source of Terror to me what impact did

that have on you when you look back now

in hindsight I look I do this sometimes

with my parents I look back and go For

Better or For Worse

this parent

shape me accidentally for you know in

this way it might have created um I had

a guest on this podcast called Tim

Grover who trained Michael Jordan and

Kobe Bryant and he says

at that young age we developed both our

bright side and our dark side

and sometimes the same incident can give

us both of our it can give us our

Brilliance and it can also give us our

you know things we struggle with the

most

what Dark Side did you inherit from that

earlier upbringing I mean I think what I

inherited from that

that period was just this this fear

overriding fear that never leaves you a

sense that I was never good enough a

sense that

I had to hide any form of Brilliance

because

looking at those early drawings that I

did

they're not far removed from what I do

now but it was just like

don't show how brilliant you are don't

show how good you are hide it hide it

were you burning the drawings I heard

you ripping them up burning whatever I

had to do so so

I can't fathom that yeah but can you as

a creative child can you imagine that's

your calling but you don't even know at

that age that this is what you're meant

to do but you just know it just felt

like something that was wrong

so I've spent a lot of years just really

loving what I do

you know loving the fashion industry but

at the same time thinking there's

something wrong with that because

while all this was going on I was being

sort of

each day I was being told you're going

to be a lawyer or a doctor oh an

engineer

so to me those were the Great careers

that you you needed

this was a great career for an African

Child for an African parent that was it

a doctor

a lawyer or an engineer so I always felt

sometimes even in the fashion industry

when I was younger that I'm not really

doing what I'm supposed to be doing you

know if I was the doctor my dad would be

so proud and you know I carried that

with me for years

until you know I had to deal with it

yeah

the parents her parents shaped us

without really realizing

you know someone said there's no real

book to be in a parent

so you know they learn as they're going

along and my dad you know he was a young

man and

yeah in the later years things got

better maybe

so you end up moving to the UK sort of

around 13 years old roughly

um

when you come here you experience racism

for the first time it's it's an

interesting thing to experience that

racism like your teen years because you

don't even understand the concept of

racism and tell me about that yeah I

mean you know

um as I said before I grew up in Ghana

you know my early years where everything

is possible the doctors are black the

president's black the lawyers black

everybody's black every profession

and then one day we're on a plane to

England me and my siblings because my

dad had gone ahead and my mother had to

stay behind

we arrive at Gatwick Airport and we're

detained because we didn't really have

the right papers you know before

laid the Lord down you could come

to England from any Commonwealth country

without a Visa but we didn't realize she

stopped it sort of a month before

so we came anywhere we were detained and

I remember looking around the room and

saying I'm saying to my brothers oh my

God everyone's White

and it was the strangest thing I'd ever

seen because in Ghana everyone's black

and I remember you know we we decamped

to the Vauxhall to my aunt's flat and

this was you know the year of you know

Microsoft's reign

and the SAS laws and

the Brixton riots and you know be I

remember the first time I was stopped on

the street by the police with my

brothers because you know teenage black

kids they assume you're up to no good

and we had to go to school in fox or

William Bailey School

over the bridge and it was just scary

leaving the house and my father was so

traumatized by this country you know

there was a military man who didn't run

a battalion now

couldn't work you know had to seek

Asylum and we were the lowest of the low

at the point even at school I'd remember

people would call use words like oh my

God they're the boo-boos which means it

was the one they used for someone from

Africa

So Not only was it half I went to an all

black school

thank God I think my dad knew that the

country was so different from anything

we knew that he put me in an all black

school and to this day I'm so grateful

for that because my work later everyone

talks about how can you

portray black people so beautifully and

I'm like that's all I know right but

those early years were tough they were

tough just a new country a new school

and you felt a sense of not being liked

as a black person

you know

so those years were tough

and and what impact has that had on you

and your work because I think about from

a professional standpoint you were

hiding and had some sort of Shame and

insecurity around your creative

expression back in Ghana you come here

now and the world once again says you

don't belong here yeah

you know that that feels and then I even

think about you in your book you talk

about understanding that you were gay

from a very young age

that's a third point of you know listen

you said in your book about had you had

your father known had you expressed that

to your father

I think the words are used he is he

would have slit your throat yeah

I can relate

[Laughter]

I mean you know he would say things like

that like oh my God if I knew any gay

person if any person into the house I'll

slip your throat but my cousin was

living there my cousin Michael he was

gay so back to your question

how did it make me feel yeah like it

feels like there was a lot that you were

shielding or being forced to hide from

the world you know identity creative

expression sexuality

um

is that an accurate assessment as a

young man did you feel like you were

did you know that there was things that

you were kind of suppressing yeah I mean

you know I was I was very shy I was

painfully shy

you know I I couldn't I couldn't speak

up I couldn't sometimes I couldn't even

walk into a room if there were people

in there was this shyness and I just

didn't feel worthy I didn't feel good

enough I didn't feel

I didn't feel like you know I had the

right to

to even be who I was doesn't make sense

you know I just didn't feel

like a wanted you know like I wanted a

child really

so it wasn't until I was stopped on the

train to be a model then things really

changed before then I was just the

Immigrant kid you know the number five

and anybody knows when you're number

five nobody's got any time for you

child

it's a low profile didn't really want

you know didn't really want to stand out

because that would mean you'll be

punished

so I think I yeah I led life a lot like

that

so you were stopped on the train sorry

about that

nobody stopped me on the train and asked

me to be a model

I'm still waiting but we'll see you're

16 years old right when they some I'm a

guy called Simon Simon Foxton yeah I

mean so I was I guess 16.

I left Vauxhall

Ian Bailey's school I wanted to go to

Kingsway Princeton College and I

remember

saying to my mom oh my God I don't want

to wear glasses anymore because I have

these huge thick lenses my whole life

and I read I was always like reading and

I discovered there was something called

Contact Lenses

can I get a pair you know we didn't have

money but she somehow

I went to the optician and somehow

because my

you know my vision is so bad it's always

been sort of in a high 10 minus nines

minus ten they gave me contact lenses

the really hard ones and if anybody

remembers

and I yeah a week later I was on the

train you know going to from Hammersmith

to college and I was stopped by uh

gentleman who was turned out to be one

of the biggest fashion editors in the

country

to be a model and I didn't even know

what modeling was and I remember you

know going home and telling my mother

and she's like no way are you going into

that industry with those people I didn't

even know what those people meant but I

think years later I think she made gay

people

and of course I found out later Simon

was gay and the whole industry was gay

by the time I was like but you know I

wore her down I wore her down I wore her

then eventually she called him

Simon and I went on my first photo shoot

and then

again I was stopped by a model agents

and I got an agent and sort of my love

for the industry really begun from there

what about your dad did he know you were

I was hiding it my mother and I were

hiding it my mother was so good I

remember the first job

she'd go with me you know to cast things

and on my shoot sometimes because I was

16. you know I was a baby

and then she really trusted Simon Foxton

so then you know Simon would look after

me and we kept it all from my dad I had

a sister who was again stopped in Canada

by a famous model agent John Casablancas

to be a model and my dad was no way

you're not doing this so somehow in the

back of my head he wasn't going to stop

me

fine so yeah I was pretending to go to

school when I was going to cost things I

was pretending to go to school when I

was going to shoot so it's very Cloak

and Dagger but my mother and I was fun

that was your I guess your introduction

to that that world right yes fashion

modeling

yeah pivotal

I mean I remember the the first day I

walked onto

the photo shoot I think was the Pepe

jeans I talked about it and I looked

around the room and I saw the

photography I saw lights I saw

you know styling I saw

a world where everybody seemed so happy

so collaborative and in that moment I

knew

that I wanted to be in this world

in that the second I walked in and I

also knew that it wouldn't be as a model

in front of the camera

that I would be something else I didn't

I didn't know anything about the

industry also don't forget

when our parents came over from

you know the Commonwealth

they didn't know what media was

you know if you say to my dad I'm going

to be a journalist and be like what

you know there was a practical jobs that

we talked about so I don't really blame

my dad now that I'm older

he just wanted me to have something that

was Secure but try telling a 16 or 17

year old who's discovered

a world where they they belong

to turn back

to be a lawyer I knew that wasn't going

to happen

but if you went anyway to the university

I did for him for my dad but the

brilliant thing about going to

University was I was doing all these

things and I was you know I was

establishing myself as the models I had

pictures in magazines and I worked on

shows and I thought you know I could do

this side by side

it wasn't until I got to go through this

University and I remember I went for

three months

and one of my lecturers literally was

like okay so what do you do outside of

here and I explained what I've been

doing I'd also been working with a

magazine called ID as you know sort of

interning

I mean I was like so in love with this

world I was a

I was a College I was modeling I was

whatever I could do

and I remember the teacher saying to me

you know what you're doing now is what

most of our students want would like to

do when they leave so

yeah just follow it and I never went

back

but then when I dropped out I was also

offered a job as

a fashion director for ID magazine when

I was 18. did you tell your dad you

dropped out I remember telling my mum I

was dropping out of University and I

didn't speak to her for two years so

good to speak to you I remember you know

one day coming home and my dad was like

how's University and something just said

you know you can't lie and you can't lie

to him

anymore so I said you know what Dad

I've been working

you know as a model I've been working at

ID magazine I haven't really been going

to University and he was Furious he

threw my things out the window my

clothes out the window and I remember

picking them up and thinking I am never

coming back here

and funny enough that's one of that's

what propels me because sometimes I have

dreams where I've gone back home because

things didn't work out

so I said hey I remember saying to

myself I am never coming back to this

house with my tail between my legs I'm

never coming back and um

the same day I went into ID magazine and

the fashion director Beth Summers was

leaving and she said you're taking over

he throws all of your stuff there's so

much so much to unpack there

he kicks you out the family home yeah

and you in your head you go now I have

no plan B it's no plan a or plan a

nothing

sounds great but that also sounds like

that's terrified and fear as a driving

force can be a little bit unhealthy

right this this sort of fear of going

back I can relate to that as well

because a similar situation call my mum

dropping at University she goes don't

talk to me or the family until you go

back so I have two years of no plan B

it's forward and that's that's wonderful

yes for achieving great things but also

it can cause in my case

severe workaholism because you're driven

by fear are you driven or are you

dragged

driven and direct basically all I know

and

I mean you started any anybody who

started an industry at a young age will

tell you that you're just driven

you're driven I didn't even know what I

was heading towards all I knew is that

I was a workaholic I would do anything

that was needed to be done I wouldn't

sleep

I wouldn't sleep if I had to return you

know close from East London to West

London I'd walk it didn't matter

and you you're also shaped by certain

people around you at the time I mean I

had great mentors you know Terry and

Tricia Jones who owned ID magazine were

really supportive of me and you know I

also had Simon Foxton

I always say to people I couldn't have

succeeded if I didn't have great people

around me I was so lucky to have not

only the best people in the industry

but also people who are caring had I

been on my own out there in the world I

don't know what would have happened I

had Judy blame who said you know

I've just got a new house

come and stay with me rent free

however you know I was 18.

come and stay with me rent free I had

you know my editors would just give me

money like okay you're working so hard

here's 10 pounds for your lunch

I was so lucky that's why it's so

important for me to Mentor young people

it's so important for young people to

have mentors because had I not been

looked after I don't know where I would

be

and also I had this work ethic from my

dad and my mother

coupled with a with a fear of going back

home it was just forward forward motion

were you were you running towards

something or running away from something

both

I was running away from a life

that had proven too difficult

you know as you said you know black

young gay

you know all these intersections I could

call it today so I really wasn't fitting

at home and I was just

I don't know what I was hurtling towards

but I just knew

that work would get me there

that my family wouldn't get me there

you know but work somehow would get me

and I didn't know where I was going was

it a distraction

work

was everything for me work meant

everything work was when I was happiest

work was when I was saddest work was

when

I felt like myself work was where I felt

like an imposter it's almost like every

emotion you have

in a family

um what do you call it

in the family dynamic

I had at work

and it goes back to being in an industry

from a very young age from from 16 don't

forget the age of 13 I came from another

country 16 I was modeling 18 I was an

editor

so the Imposter Central not fair

and and I look back at my journey now

and you know writing the book it's like

it was quite fast it was quite a fast

Ascent Maybe

but with it came over

you know

you didn't speak to your father for

another 15 years following that day that

he chucked you out the house did you

also

sort of reject the family yes and work

became as you describe it there you're a

new family yeah yeah I rejected my

family I thought they could have done

more

to help me

um I had a baby sister who's now my

agent

and she was she didn't understand well

from one day to the next I left

I was seeing my family list and I

embraced a whole new world I mean in

this world I was Edward I was I was I

was beautiful I was shiny

um that's the word that I hate that I

was exotic back then

and it felt like this is where I needed

to be but underneath I was

I was a mess I was the same insecure

little boy hiding from my father

but because I was in a position of power

I had to

I had to cover up the shyness and

essentially grow up again grow up super

fast

you describe yourself as being lucky

[Music]

but I I'm not sure I necessarily agree

because

most people don't open up their home to

someone they don't give them money when

they need it they don't bring them in

just because

they are 18 and young so if you were to

tell me how you created that look why

people were pulling you up why they were

giving you the job as fashion director

at 18 years old why they were letting

you in their home

why was that

I mean I always thought it was luck I

always thought I was in the right place

at the right time I'd met the right

people but I had learned later on of

course

that I must have had something

In The Raw I must have had some a raw

talent I must have had

some kind of a raw Vision something that

people wanted to help hone because had I

not had these people I don't I would

never have known how to research

a great shoot or how to write a great

you know

how to write a great story

I had people I I think they must have I

must have been so

so sort of wide-eyed and innocent that

everybody wanted to help me everybody

wanted to help me win but I also know

that you do that with people

for me now I do that with people I see

have a certain Talent a certain Raw

Talent so I think now it's not down to

luck

you know luck you know luck will get you

through the door but something has to

sustain you

but in those early days I was so

grateful

you know for all these people who

thought I had something special and my

mind even working ID when I was so young

I mean I didn't have an assistant so I

would literally

work on the cover shoot style it find a

photographer I would write all the

shopping pages I would work on layouts I

would shoot Fashion Stories I would

write designer interviews it was like a

one-man Army and I didn't realize that I

was soaking in

I was soaking in an industry I was

soaking in really I mean you know

everything I do in my job now comes from

those days but there I was in sort of a

magazine

for Young People by young people and I

was learning my craft and it was

exciting every day I didn't want to go

to I didn't want to sleep

I didn't want to sleep but I was

definitely a workaholic

you know work meant everything to me

and if something went wrong in work I'll

just collapse and not know how to handle

it

doesn't make sense because it was so

closely linked to your right sense of

self identity yeah that again can be

unhealthy right pardon oh my God I talk

about imposter syndrome syndrome

and then and then your mind is saying to

you you're not meant to be here you're

this little African boy

who Do You Think You Are

and you're trying to work I mean I know

a lot of young people you know speak to

a lot of young people

today and when and when they hear that I

suffer from imposter syndrome they can't

believe it I'm like that's just part of

life it never goes away you learn where

to put it like I know that I've done

this long enough to know that you know

what I do is okay

on a good day

but yes it was quite difficult

those early days so that leads you to

drinking and that leads you to going out

just the numb

your insecurities and your fears

do you think you could have gotten here

without your imposter syndrome if you

didn't feel like in a quote-unquote

imposter would you be saying now no way

I always say had I not had my imposter

syndrome had I not had the need to be

better I mean

I never look at anything I've done and

think this is amazing I'm always no I'm

like how can I do better

how can I make this better how can I

make this issue better how can I make

this better and that's really what's

Driven me over these years

even when an issue comes out of British

book I don't look at it until two months

later because I will literally see all

the mistakes and and that's something I

learned from

from back then

so my insecurities really that that's

what drove me that's what kept driving

me not the successes

it's the fact that think this wasn't

good enough or that wasn't good enough

or this could be better

but I got to a point where I went okay

you can you can let that go for now and

yeah see things from a different angle

but yeah my imposter syndrome definitely

propelled me if you if you have that

where you're looking at your work and

you always are self-critical of it

and you're always thinking about how you

could have done it better how were you

happy in the moment because that sounds

like you're kind of deferring your

enoughness the feeling that I'm enough

and it's good enough and everything's

fine off into the future behind the next

goal so how do you become at that stage

in your life how are you are you happy

in the moment

I mean you know everyone says why this

sense of insecurity what you have to

remember is I was in

an incredible home and I lost it

an incredible country lost it

an Incredible family lost it

went into a gay scene that was so

it was so different to what I expected

so lost that so for me it's there's

always a sense of loss

that I had to overcome

does that make sense power makes perfect

sense

you know I had to belong somewhere I

never felt I really belonged anywhere

and that really

was the factor sitting here 50 years old

you know I've been able to deal with my

My

Demons you know through

yeah through work through therapy

whatever you want to call it so I'm a

different person now but I'm still that

same I still have those feelings of

of yeah you just have to make it

as best as it can be but now not

detrimental to my health not detrimental

to my mental health

but as a young person you don't think of

that you just

you just have to move forward and you

have to be the best you can be whatever

that is

you have to move forward you start that

treadmill at 18 years old which is much

earlier than a lot of people started as

fashion director of this magazine you

start moving forward you work you you

don't sleep you give everything to to it

and at some point it tends to be the

case when I speak to these incredible

people that there's a moment where you

go where am I how did I get here

and I need to I need to change something

was there a moment in your life where

you realize that you you know all this

running was maybe just a little too much

running and you had to stop for a second

and take a moment yeah I remember sort

of around

2002 I mean I've been in the industry

for so long I was creating fashion shows

for the best designers in the world I

was flying every day

or every few days to a different country

you know living the life as they call it

but I was always I was also the most

miserable I'd ever been

I would be in a room surrounded by

lots of people who feel really lonely

there was a sense of loneliness that was

sort of creeping

into my life every day and there's this

saying that you can be in a room

surrounded by thousands of people and be

lonely but that kept getting stronger

and stronger so I started drinking a lot

and I started um

sort of going out a lot you know

recreational drugs and one day

I was supposed to go to

Italy to work on a show

um a big show for

designers called Dolce Cabana and I had

a party and I lost my passport

and I was supposed to be there on day

one and by the time I got my passport

back it was day four

I literally went to the American I went

to the British Embassy to get my

passport with a bottle of vodka in my

hands you're joking yes which I put

through the security thinking there was

nothing wrong

but I remember getting to Milan and

literally breaking down and calling a

friend and said I think I'm done I think

I'm done with

with drinking I think I'm done and um

I became sober for the next 14 years or

so I knew my life had to change I moved

from London to New York to be away from

everyone

and that's what I did but

my career was totally unaffected

that

the people who have addictions can be

functioning so my career was at the top

you know at the time

and I could have just carried on but I

just knew that life had to change I just

knew I had to

develop some kind of spirituality I just

I just needed

to be able to look at myself and not

you know hate myself hate myself yeah I

hate myself

um you know work was always great but

like I said behind the curtains the

the insecurities the loneliness that a

lot of people a lot of High Achievers

feel you know when you don't have a

partner when you don't have a family to

go back to you're literally a lone wolf

with a lot of friends

everything in life has a cost in the

cost of being dragged or driven by

success is often something has to Fall

by the wayside yes and for so many

successful people that is social

connections and there's all these other

things that make life quote unquote

balanced

um because you know in the moment those

things seem disposable when you're so

focused and driven and you know running

away from where you've come from or

getting to where you're going

um and it seems like such a recurring

theme that I experienced what were the

symptoms you should you said the word

creeping creeping feelings of like

loneliness or whatever you know

depression whatever it was what were the

the

signals the signs

of that like that's what I really want

to get to because there'll be someone

listening to this now

that it might just be creeping like a

frog in a frying pan slowly heating up

what were those signals or signs in your

life the signals were like you know not

not really sleeping yeah not really

never engaging with people on a

one-to-one always being better with with

crowds of people around

avoidance you know avoiding certain

situations certain

people who are quote unquote good for

you

um avoiding people who you really

Loved Before and who were really kind to

you all of a sudden avoiding them

for a new group of shiny people

um and I spent watching you know endless

amounts of

TV but then realizing for the past six

hours you can't you can't even remember

what you've been watching

yeah staring at the screen but the mind

and a mind that wouldn't stop no

meditation involved

no just a mind that was working overtime

and what was it feeling like it's a

feeling of emptiness

I can describe that feeling

um now when I meditate I'm like oh so

that's the feeling but it's a feeling of

emptiness the feeling of

loneliness is really how I describe it

disconnectedness disconnected from

everything and everyone's telling you

how brilliant you are you have the

magazine covers I mean I remember once

at one month I look I went to the

newsstands I had the cover of American

Vogue Italian Vogue vanity American

Vanity Fair ID magazine and and feeling

empty and people saying oh my God look

at what you've achieved and just

just want and also wanting to destroy it

really wanted to destroy whatever Talent

there was wanting to destroy it not

really caring not really taking care of

it I mean now I know that when you're

given a talent I don't know where that

comes from you have to protect it you

have to nurture it you have to but when

you're young in your 20s and you have

money and and jobs are coming to you you

just don't

you don't see the value

so what changed at that moment in your

life what changed you gave up the

alcohol you describe yourself with that

point and I I went into AAA where

alcoholics oh my God I learned to do

service with homeless people in AAA it's

a leveler

so I'll you know you do service with

homeless people you'd go

for lunch with people from all walks of

life don't forget I've been

in this industry since 18 and I hadn't

stepped out of it the only people I knew

were actors or musicians I hadn't

stepped out of this but meeting real

everyday

regular people that really helped me and

also doing service you know one day you

make tea

um I had to spawn C's so you know

esponces you know someone who wants to

to not drink and change their life so

you're someone's in a Way Mentor I had

you know a sponsor but I was really in

the program and that really gave me a

spiritual side to be able to

to deal with the world and even you know

to

have a relationship with you know

married now like I said I've been in a

relationship now for 21 years but had I

not taken that step had I not woken up

and thought I need my life to be

different I don't know what I'll be

today

because the party moves very fast

you know the train moves very fast and a

lot of people in the fashion industry

don't get the chance

to step back and you know reevaluate you

just go it's just like

yeah you could go from party to party

and it would be okay

but I just knew that um

coming from where I came from

that I needed to change my life

going from party to party and it will be

okay that almost seems like a bit of a

metaphor for how a lot of people are

living their lives even outside of the

fashion industry going from job to job

lawyer to senior lawyer to partner at

the law firm without really having that

moment to step back and say who am I and

how did I get here and do I belong here

and do I feel okay I know the external

world's telling me I've done well but

that does that match with how I feel

inside

yeah I mean it's like you have to know

what you feel inside and a lot of times

too many people young people are

doing what they think other people want

them to do oh you're great you'll be

good at this you should ask for this job

sometimes you have to ask yourself do I

want that that's what I did everyone

says you need to take this campaign you

need to work with this designer so I did

but did I really want that maybe I

didn't

but you just do it because people

people's expectations of you you know

and I did that for years and you know I

don't do that anymore

but it takes it takes a while to be able

to figure that out if you could have had

a chat with Edward that 18 year old

fashion director at ID magazine and you

could you could have just sat down with

him and given him a couple of listen

right Edward this is what I need to tell

you

what would 51 year old Edward say to 18

year old Edward about career advice and

equipping him for the next couple of

years I said

don't just give everything to work

don't just give everything to work you

know find moments for yourself find

moments to self-reflect

find moments to to

I always say I always go back to

meditation find moments of self-help

because that will carry you much longer

you know a lot of people I started out

with are not are no longer around

so many people along the Wayside decided

the industry wasn't for them or was bad

for their Mental Health

and I just kept going

and I would have you know say to my

younger self you know what sometimes

maybe some some jobs aren't worth it

but you know when you're 18 everything

is a must isn't it do you think he would

have listened no

no way we'll just do the same thing all

over again

but that's the beauty of Youth isn't it

yeah yeah there's some lessons in life

that you have to learn for yourself what

I wasn't doing I didn't listen to anyone

really

but um

yeah

little Edward

but you know what's really great about

that time that I think about it was like

you know I go back to saying you know I

was

I was I don't know the chosen one or the

token whichever you want to see it

but I even learned at that age that I

needed

people like myself around I needed black

people around me people of color around

me so I you know I became really good

friends with a young model Naomi

Campbell A young makeup artist Pat

McGrath another hairstylist Ben scarf

and Patty Wilson and we became our

little group in the fashion industry

through the 90s and you always need you

always need your people why

because you just do because there's

certain things that you know I was

facing that you wouldn't know as a

person who wasn't black that Pat would

understand that Naomi would understand

we were navigate in spaces

that you know most black people want

and you just need someone to understand

when you had a problem someone to

understand and help you navigate really

so for me those friendships that we had

as kids in the early 90s we still so

close that we speak every day all of us

so you need your tribe

you need your tribe and I remember even

the day I stopped

I stopped drinking I called Pat and I

called Naomi and you know they've been

so consistent in my life

but I had my tribe

in an industry that wasn't really for us

yeah

you stayed at ideas fashion director for

a long time 20 something years 20

something years most young people

especially these days wouldn't stay in

any job

staying for two years after six months

they're coming to me to say what is my

Prospect I'm like I don't even know you

but that's when I read that I was like

is that correct like you stayed in one

job the job you had at 18 for 20

something years but I mean not 20 years

I mean 20 years but I was sort of

freelance and still doing the job yeah

doing the job but ideas are such a

special magazine you know it became like

the coolest magazine in the world every

model every actor everybody wanted to be

a part of it so there was no need for me

to live and also I'm also very loyal you

know loyalty is so important

so everywhere I go I never leave

there's something to be said for that

though it's rare in the modern world

that loyalty to a profession or a craft

yeah and if someone is loyal to you I

believe in sort of being loyal back

no if someone nurtures you you know

then you want to be there like I said it

replaces the family Dynamic which I

didn't have from that do you think

that's part of it the why why you've

been so loyal is because you're

searching for somewhere to belong oh I

know that because even when I was at ID

um my friends would say I was never

alone at my desk each day you know every

day you come in there'll be the the

hottest

actor singer dancer of the moment around

my table the next day would be a writer

it was like yeah come in come and hang

out let's go hang out for the day with

Edward

and what

was that making you feel

when there was people around you from an

emotional standpoint I mean I'm I'm

great with people I love being around

people and I always say you know I have

a have a husband who is sort of very

wants to be on his own introvert and I

grew up with

five siblings so I don't even know what

being on my own

it's like I mean now I do but back then

the more people around the mall

like they gave me energy and creativity

I love Creative conversations I love I

love being in the moment I love arriving

at you know a creative decision so

that's that was really my feel

yeah Vogue how did that happen Vogue

yeah

so after ID

um in the late 90s I started working for

Italian Vogue for the great editor

called Franco sazani and Italian Virgo

was sort of of all the folks you could

say the most creative where you know

should give you 30 pages to shoot that

was incredible images so you know I did

that for maybe called 10 years I was at

Italian verb sort of the main stylist

and then I got a call from Anna winter

in America

to come and work for American Vogue so

from Italian Vogue I moved to American

Vogue and I was there for

working for another for seven years then

I got a call

damn you do long stints

[Laughter]

magazine to work with um stuff on the

tank here really great editor and I was

there for seven years wow you know when

you're having fun

or when you're enjoying what you do

time is of no essence

you know like I I would say oh the issue

comes out in six months and someone's

like that's six months away but for me

it was like tomorrow

so yes and then one day out of the blue

I got a call

from Jonathan Newhouse I'm a very

great he was you know he owns containers

the company that owns Vogue and

he said

um the editor who was there had been

there for 26 years

was you know fashioned in this nobody

leaves any chance clearly

what's leaving and would I come in for

an interview so I came in for a couple

of interviews

um I didn't think I was going to get it

because to be honest I thought Vogue

wasn't meant for people like me you know

I thought Vogue was meant for

you know women from a certain background

and

and I was you know the boy from Napa

Grove you know I was gay I was outspoken

you know I was good at my job but um

yeah I went for an interview and I

literally told them

you know how to how I would do Vogue for

for 2017. and what was that message to

make it inclusive to make it diverse you

know there was this notion in the

fashion industry that black women all

women of color on covers don't sell

it's been in the industry for as long as

I can remember but I saw all these

affluent women you know not just black

women you know gay women women from you

know with working class backgrounds you

know Muslim women Aussies British who

are British essentially

not seeing themselves reflected in the

magazine I thought well not only is it

bad but you know it's not good business

but I wanted to create a place or a safe

place where women could just

feel welcomed because I always remember

my mother always said to me if you can

see it you can be it

so I wanted to create um a magazine

where you know women of all shapes sizes

you know race age social economic

background could see themselves

reflected and that's all I did I didn't

reinvent the the wheel I just thought

who are the women out there that I

wanted to reach and that's what I did

and thank God the world was I mean now

diversity is a buzzword right but in

2017 nobody was wanted that on a

magazine

and I always said you know I knew I'd

probably be fired three months in

but I also learned at least what I got

from my father I would rather be fired

for something I believed in than to go

in half halfing it and get fired anyway

half hours

so yeah that's how voke happened and the

world was ready

when you got that call

saying that you were going to take that

top job at Vogue how did you feel

scared I felt scared on one hand because

I knew

the type of person I am that I that I

wouldn't

like I said I wouldn't just go in and

try to make do I would need to change

everything

I also knew that VOC had such a huge I

mean folks the best magazine in the

world and has such a huge

sort of history

that I wanted to sort of be a part of it

but make it about today and I didn't

know if the readers would be ready

I mean before I started the job you know

there were speculations in the newspaper

I mean I got called all kinds of Africa

and I got called I got called heaven I

heard called it black what was it I had

the uh the black one they said it was

like going to crafts yeah and the cat

one like a whole other breed so already

I had that on my shoulders it was really

it was a really tough time

but I didn't speak I just thought let me

just bring out the magazine and when the

first issue dropped December

2017 with adjoa on the cover an issue

that was dedicated to Great Britain

the country that gave me a home the

country that I loved

and featured all the best you know

um zadie Smith and Naomi Campbell um

Sadiq Khan that's the best of Britain

the world got it straight away and from

that minute the the magazine just went

up up up up and we haven't looked back

but even I read it so I read about that

story of the newspaper when you got the

job as the top job at Vogue they said it

was like

crufts but the cat winning yes racism

and then I also recall a story you tell

about arriving at Vogue one day and a

security lady not letting you in because

they thought you were the delivery man

yeah

and at that point you were oh the editor

I've been editor for years and they

wouldn't let you in the building yeah I

mean it was it was you know I think the

woman was hired from God knows where I

walked in I walked in and

without asking for anything without

asking for my party was like loading Bay

excuse me what

I said

you have to use the loading bear and I

was like I'm the editor of this magazine

but what that's you know obviously what

that taught me was never

to feel that

the work is done never to feel that I'm

okay never to feel that I've made it

those moments remind me that there's

still a lot to do a younger person

walking in there would have been

paralyzed with fear but I knew how to do

something about it

and this also happened years ago at a

show where they put old-fashion

directors in the front row and put me in

the second row and I literally was on

Twitter the next day I'm not scared fear

is not an option for me you know from a

young age I've never been scared of

fighting

for you know what I deserve or fighting

for what people

from different backgrounds deserve

so yes that happened at Vogue you know

but it also made me realize that

you always have to fight and you can

never be complacent

even today do you feel like there's

people that want to see you fail and

that don't want a man of your color and

background to be in that role I mean I

think you know I mean I've proven myself

I mean at the end of the day I didn't

just create a magazine that looked good

but also if magazine that was Finance

it's so financially successful

you know diversity sells I remember

taking the job and people saying to me

diversity is down Market yes I heard

that then I had Oprah Winfrey on the

cover wearing the most incredible

diamond earrings and it's sold out

so every day I continue to sort of um

challenge what the idea of

Vogue is that an idea of being an editor

is but now I look around at all the

magazines and and diversity is now a

part of

part of the media you know having black

models on the covers that's no longer a

a big deal having issues around

you know having gay issues or trans

issues it's no longer an issue but in

2017 it was unheard of

so it shows how far we've come but

there's still a long way to go you

thought Edward you fought for your

entire life you fought for yourself you

fought for others you're fighting for

your people

um you're doing that every day it's so

clear in all your work I was reading

also about the black issue You released

and how well that sold out where you put

all sort of black models throughout this

magazine and yeah and that fight again

it comes at a cost

um

and one of the costs that came at was

your health yeah I read about the health

scare you had can you tell me about that

and the doctors linked that back to your

lack of sleep and yeah it sounded like

some kind of sort of a culmination of

fighting a bit too hard if that makes

sense I mean you know I was I was even

on my way here I was in

in the car with my PR and just like

you're always fighting

you always

pushing forward yes basically all those

years of um

just not sleeping just working over

working traveling I woke up one day and

I saw these black markings in my in my

vision

and it turned out that I was

uh I was having a detached retina

so the retina detach it eventually you

know one surgery then he detached again

and he detached four times

in the same eye

and then as all that was happening

um my other eye started so they had to

operate unless I've been I think five

operations

and you know I work with my eyes so can

you imagine what that did

so that was really harrowing and then

also I developed um tinnitus so the

hearing I had that oh it's hard to

explain you can't explain you can't

explain it if I said to you your ears

gonna ring you go okay but when your

earrings you think you're going crazy

yeah you go crazy you think you're going

crazy I had it for about 15 days and I

can see I you know only 15 days yes it

went yeah oh wow and I so I started

reading online about it because you're

gonna have this for life and then I read

about the the psychological impact on

your mental health of having it for life

can you imagine having that and then

having my eyes

but what it did teach me you know when

you know I didn't work for two years

people didn't realize when my whole sort

of

eye issues were happening didn't work

for two years but in the industry you

know you can you have so many shoes

banked anyway so it looks like you are

but I knew after that that I had to

change my life that I had to practice

self-care

that I had to you know work hard but not

travel as much not take every job not

and British folk came at the right time

because it helped

you know it meant I'll be in one place a

lot I'll be in an office which was also

very new because I hadn't been in an

office for a while and yes it really

helped me turn my life around I mean um

such a health nut

a purpose-driven man like you that's so

in love with his work for your work to

be taken because your eyes as you say

are Central to what you do so you can't

see films TV shoots well what was the

the sort of mental health implications

of that oh my God I was I was I I was a

mess I mean

I was I was living in New York at the

time anyway and I was saying I saw a

a therapist who said I had PTSD

because I was so scared of losing my

vision it spiraled I mean to all my to

my relationship

expired into my life I was so scared up

and I remember

the idea of going blind

wouldn't leave my mind for one second

like it wasn't like every day I thought

of oh I might go blind once it was every

second on my mind I could be happy and

I'll go back you're gonna go blind and

the mind the brain is so powerful so

imagine you're leading your life and

then there's this thing running behind

your brain You're Gonna Go Blind You're

Gonna Go Blind but non-star and it took

a lot of therapy to

cognitive therapy to help me deal with

that because I was convinced not just

one eye but to you but then I found it

was incredible doctor in New York

probably the best in his field and

you know my eyes are yeah good now I

mean not perfect but at least I can see

or partially see I don't know if it was

slightly after that but you know we've

talked about the incredible impact and

inspiration from a very young age that

your mother was to you she was

everything you've described vivacious

she was an entrepreneur she was the the

reason why fashion became such an

important part of your life as a Young

Man during fashion designs under her

workstation at work and so on and while

she was away visiting Ghana she had a

stroke yeah and from her health

deteriorated over the coming over the

next couple of years

in 2016 at 44 years old your mother

passed away

what impact did that have on your

perspective in your life the passing of

your mother

um oh my God I mean my mother was

somebody who wouldn't stop working

she was somebody who

wouldn't sleep I mean I get all that

from her

she read I mean my mother didn't even

cook because my sisters would cook she

was obsessed with beautiful clothes make

bringing Beauty in the world but I also

watched her you know she didn't eat so

well she wouldn't exercise she just wake

up and just work

so I mean you know my mother was the

love of my life and it really made me

stop to think I mean you know Strokes

are not nothing to you know to be messed

with and it runs in my family so that

was already a sign to really look after

myself but losing my mother really left

a void that you know will never be

filled

but now I don't remember the strange

thing happens when you lose a parent no

I don't remember her being ill

I just remember that you know that

gorgeous creative woman

who was so full of life

and my mother always thought me not to

be scared of anything and

yeah all the memories I have of her so

great but she also helped me change my

life

you know

yeah she was the love of my life

in your words what do you owe to her

I owe her everything my God I owe her

the love the love of

fashion and color and people

the

the the the the the

delving into your imagination the

creativity

everything that's I create that's

beautiful everything you know the love I

have of women of all shades and sizes

and ages and

you know race everything everything good

everything good in in my work but also

in my life she was the kindest most

nurturing

human being and that's something I try

to do with my staff that's something I

try to do in my everyday life sort of

you know they used to call me teacher

when I was young so I really like

teaching the Next Generation and really

nurturing them so all that really came

from my mother and also empathy

you know being able to

put yourself in someone's shoes oh that

came from her

when she after her stroke it was almost

15 years where you describe it as a sort

of decline in her in her health

[Music]

when she did pass away was there any

any thoughts of sort of regrets about

the this is something I always wonder

about my parents because I've still got

my parents but I play out the scenario

of how I'll feel one day when I've spent

all this time working and our

relationship you kind of I think I've

gone through life thinking my parents

will live forever to be honest

yeah everyone thinks their parents are

going to live forever I say to my

friends please make sure you see your

parents as much as you can because when

they're gone they're gone I still pick

up the phone to call my mother and she's

not there but I spend as much time as

you can because they're not here forever

you think they are and the biggest

regret I had is all those years I spent

working and traveling and not seeing

enough of her and not you know going

back to

to visit and I was just so consumed with

work you know the one regret I do have

is I wish I would have spent more time

with her but I thought she was going to

be around forever

so yeah spend as much time as you can

with your parents you know build

whatever Bridges you can build I know

some bridges are impossible but if you

can build British to you know do because

when they're gone

you will miss them

are there any did you ever hear from you

directly the impact that she had had on

your life

I mean you know before she had the

stroke she saw how well I was doing and

you know she would see you know

different articles appear in different

magazines and she knew that you know she

was Africa so she knew that I was

financially secure

secure enough to give you know to look

after the family so for her even though

she didn't see me get to this level she

knew that you know

I was able to buy a place when I was

very young and I'm able to sort of look

after them and so she saw that

and I think she was very proud of that

she must have been very proud of you I

think she was I hope she was anyway

incredible you went to therapy

um after she'd passed away what has

therapy given you what's the sort of the

practical

[Music]

therapy really gives you the Practical

tools to cope with life I I mean I've

always had I've always been very good

with boundaries like it teaches you

boundaries I've always been very good

you know when I was a teenager I was I

just wanted to do what everybody wanted

but then the older I got I mean I was I

mean I was so Frosty at Point times

anyway

okay

this is your boundaries it teaches

when

when you know things are not right you

know again I've always had that but it

teaches me to be human to be caring to

you know certain people in our positions

you know when you're successful

sometimes you

you discard opinions so fast or you

discard people people's ideas so I'm now

learning to be a better listener you

know all those things that I wasn't when

I was growing up you know maybe it's

turning 50 as well you know I'm not

patient now definitely

if I was your who's the closest person

to you professionally

professionally oh my god oh

um who knows you best professionally

my sister okay so your sister your

younger sister right my sister who was

also my agent for 15 years if I asked

her what what you're good at because you

know you've reached this position where

you're the top of your game and what you

do

from the most incredible start in life

to hear now

so we talked about your talent but we

didn't really figure out in terms of

like the specifics of what that Talent

is in your in your own words if I was to

ask your sister I said what's Edward's

Talent

what is the thing that he's good at that

the peers just can't quite do as well as

he can he should ask her

what do you think should say

um I think she will probably say that I

I'm in sort of Perpetual forward motion

that I don't take no for an answer

probably

and that I'll

yeah I'll do whatever I can to make

to make the best magazine or to make the

best picture or to make the best like oh

I'll go to the ends of the world to make

things happen maybe isn't it difficult

for someone who doesn't have that same

standard to work with someone like you

then

because if only you know if I don't care

as much about the details as you do yeah

but I also think that you know it comes

with time doesn't it

you know I think you can see Diamonds In

The Raw

so I don't expect everybody to be like

me but I can also see potential and then

hopefully you can nurture that potential

to its fullest

so I don't expect everybody to come in

you know sometimes the best

the best people you work with are the

quiet ones in the back the ones who are

not good at in interview situations

but the ones who know who work and our

workers and she probably say that I I

I'm definitely a worker like I work very

hard

the standards matter to you very much

sir

do you sweat the small stuff yes

why does that matter

the the devil's in the details

you know you have to to create on a

level that we create you know you can't

just say okay everything's fine

everything will work out can you work

with people that are like that

don't sweat the small stuff

so long as there are people there who

can't sweat the small stuff maybe it's

other people's talents or something else

but there needs to be a balance it can't

just be

everybody says sweater small stuff

but they also has to be sort of dreamers

and

creators you know someone said to me

once what do you look for

when you employ staff

and like I said it's not the best

interview it's

when you're walking towards my office am

I happy to see you

like what are you bringing

to the job so someone comes into my

office they're like sweating the small

stuff and somebody can just walk in and

go I have a big idea

and that's what I love about what we do

you think you're successful

I'm successful

uh I'm just at my work

but I'm still a work in progress where

life is concerned

because every day I learned something

new about myself I feel like I missed a

lot of years growing up you know for

years I was always

I was always sort of jealous when I saw

people who went to University together

oh

when people were you know we went to

University together had all those

escapades and I was working

but now I realize that everybody has

their own path

and mine was to yeah to go

and be a worker

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sometimes I ask my friends this because

this is the kind of way that I am but if

happiness were an ingredients list if it

was a recipe that needed certain

ingredients in certain quantities for

the recipe to be complete

is there anything missing currently off

your ingredients list that you think if

you just had a little bit more of that

then maybe you'd be even more fulfilled

content happy no it's for me it's more

it's more the opposite I'm now like if I

don't want to be in a place

whether it's dinner or in a job or in a

situation I'm out

that's what that's the ingredient that I

have now that I don't want to spend any

life is doing so I don't want to spend

any time being in a place where I don't

want to be and that came with years and

years

of you know failures and successes or

whatever you call it now I know where I

need to be who I want to be with

and that's that's the ingredient that's

been added I'm 30 now right so I've got

your baby there's a 20 about a 20 20

year gap between me and you so my God

you're so great oh thank you I mean that

means a lot coming from you so thank you

what advice would you give me as a 30

year old man right now you know I've got

my I've got another 20 years ahead of me

it's a different chapter of life

I love that piece of advice you said

about boundaries and like if I don't

want to be there let's let someone down

get out of there is there anything else

you think that as a 30 year old man

um would equip me to make the next

chapter of my life is brilliant I mean

don't say don't take no for an answer

keep keep doing what you do there'll be

naysayers along the way people like oh

you can do it like this you can do it

like that this this person don't listen

to any of that you've already set

yourself on a great path

manifest it keep moving forward yeah but

really don't be distracted by people

telling you you can't do this or you

can't do that or shouldn't do this once

someone again one of the things my

mother said to me is when you go into a

place

any situation and they say you know we

do things like this oh things you should

say why

always have that on your mind why why

why does it have to be like this why

can't we change so why

it's a very important word to have

a man how has love changed your life

Edward

20 years married now I mean love I never

thought I would have love I always

thought I'd be like

I love those people who sort of career

minded people you know where you get to

the end of your life and you've achieved

everything without

a partner then I met you know I like

when we were in our 20s I was in my late

20s or since early 20s and part of the

reasons why I got certain part of the

reasons why I got sober and he has

taught me about

just being a and being a person being

Being Human

you know being grounded

it's so special

really just just the normal things in

life but he's also very creative so

he tells me when the cover is awful and

we fight

and I say to him what do you mean this

is awful everybody loves this and goes

yeah they tell you what you want to hear

so he's my my you know my my home

you know my safe space

and he's just very kind you know

took me to be kinder

have you learned to express to him what

he means to you

I think he read the book