I've spent three decades

reverse-engineering the human mind to

show you how you can use it to know what

somebody's thinking when they meet you

or if somebody was telling you the truth

or lying. So, let's do something fun.

Imagine that in front of you was an

invisible deck of cards. Spread them out

in front of you. And I want you to reach

down and imagine you just grab a card at

random. Now, look at it. Look at me.

Okay, close your eyes. Hold your hand

out, please. Now, before you open your

eyes, tell us what was that card? Three

of diamonds.

>> Hmm. Open your eyes. Take a look.

And it's not magic. I can teach you

this. And these secrets, these habits,

they're applicable all throughout life.

Just trust me, you don't want to miss

the rest of this. Oz Pearlman walked

away from Wall Street to become the

world's leading mentalist, unlocking the

skills we need

>> to read people, win trust, spot a liar,

and influence anyone. My whole job is to

make you believe that I can read minds,

but here is the honest truth. It's

impossible. But, I read people through

small, minute details. For example,

we're hardwired from thousands of years

that if I approach you directly with two

eyes, it can create fear versus if I

turn ever so slightly and approach you

with one eye, that one eye is less

danger. So, it's all about the smallest

little nuances. Like, think of someone.

Think of their first name. I got it.

Five letters, isn't it? Tell us all,

what is their first name? Jules. So,

this is a huge tactical advantage when

you ask your boss for a raise or when

you ask someone out on a date. And I'll

explain to you what to do as well as how

you form habits, eliminating that fear

of rejection, and also a fast track for

confidence. But, the next thing is how

to improve your memory, which is a huge

secret to success. And I have a tip.

I've repurposed the instructions on a

shampoo bottle, and the first step is

what 95% of us do wrong. So,

I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double-check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you subscribed and thank

you so much because in a strange way you

are you're part of our history and

you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you.

Oz Pearlman.

You're a guy who can apparently read

people's minds. In fact, the book you've

just written is called Read Your Mind,

Proven Habits for Success from the

World's Greatest Mentalist.

So, for anyone that isn't familiar with

your work and what you do,

why did you name your book Read Your

Mind? And can you

read my mind? So, therein lies the

dilemma. My whole job is to make you

believe that I can read minds, but here

is the honest truth, I can't read minds.

I wish I could read minds. That's

impossible. I read people. Very

different skill. This is built on the

world of magic, what I do. Misdirection,

influence, suggestion. Knowing how

people think indicates to me what they

think, right? I've spent three decades

reverse engineering the human mind. I'm

teaching you habits for success because

the skills that I have at reading people

effectively, walking into a room, taking

charge, influencing them, all of the

things surrounding the entertainment

portion are things that apply to

everyone. If you can use these secrets,

these habits,

they're going to lead you to success in

your personal life, in your professional

life, in your relationships, and that's

what I've done. I think that if I had

done this same playbook and not been a

mentalist, I'd be successful in any

field. They're applicable all throughout

life. You know, I'm pausing for 1 second

because someone listening to this right

now, I'm always thinking about the

person

there watching us. Mhm. And why should

they be watching me right now? That's my

question. Who cares about me? I don't

know me. They don't know me. Why should

they watch this?

I've studied you. That's what I do for a

living and I have something for you. And

on Dragon's Den, I love when you make an

offer. I I the visual of the moment

where you can change someone's life.

Right? A founder, you value their

company, you make them an offer.

So, this is an offer, but

it's not for now.

You have to stick around till the end.

If you open it now, it'll be

meaningless. At the end of this podcast,

you're going to open this piece of

paper,

and I think it's going to be something

you will talk about for years to come.

You know what? Put it somewhere, maybe

right under your mug, where it never

leaves our sight, and we're going to

come back to this later. I'm going to

put it

>> know what this is? It's your future.

This is my future.

>> 100%.

Don't open it yet. You don't want to

know your future yet.

>> And why should they stick around and

listen? Oh, because trust me, you don't

want to miss the rest of this.

Otherwise, you'll have to see the

highlights. Put it somewhere we see it

the whole time. Okay, so I'll put it

I'll put it here. Or under your mug, or

anywhere we never lose sight of it.

Wonderful.

My mug on top of it.

For anyone that can't see, cuz there

will be some people listening on audio,

he's just passed me a white piece of

folded up card, and I've put it

underneath my mug.

It's an offer you can't refuse. Listen,

guys, we're not colluding. So, I cuz I

remember watching

I remember watching the Joe Rogan

episode and wondering whether you and

Joe Rogan had colluded.

>> Yep. To like do the cuz it blew my mind.

So,

my objective today is to be completely

honest with my audience. And also, if I

if I see you do something,

do you want me to say it? For sure. Like

you actually want me to say it?

>> I mean, I guess so, while I'm here.

Okay, fine. Okay.

I mean, they trust you. Why do people

listen to you? Great interview

questions, but they trust you. That's

how you build an audience. Yeah, I'd

feel bad if I if I

duped them. And what is it that you

think you know that the average person

doesn't know about the human condition?

I know how people think.

So, I think what I learned at a certain

point were skills that are for success

in life. Let me explain to you. The fear

of rejection is something that I think

is the number one factor between failure

and success. It's the fear. Most people

don't try to achieve their goals because

they're fearful of what will happen if

they fail or they set themselves up for

failure instead of for success. What do

I mean by that? When I was 14, I'd walk

up to the restaurant and talk my way

into getting a restaurant gig cuz I've

been doing magic tricks since I was 13.

And I started learning by iterating.

What makes people, when I walk up to

them, comfortable with me? What makes

them uncomfortable? I started learning

how

people think.

And it's down to the smallest little

nuances. I learned that if I approach

you directly, the same way that animals

fear you when they see two eyes versus

if I turn ever so slightly and approach

your table at an angle, you only see one

eye. We're hardwired from thousands and

thousands of years of avoiding predators

that one eye is less danger. Animals

aren't as fearful of you. So, I walk up

to you. I create time limits. I learned

quickly that if I walk up, the first

thing someone thinks is, "Oh my god, is

he going to be here long?" The next

thing is, "Do they even know this kid's

working here? Is he any good at this? Oh

god, I need money. Do I have to tip him?

I didn't bring cash." All of these

thoughts that go through your mind are

known as heuristics. It's how we deal

with our life every day.

And if you can know what somebody's

thinking, not to perform a mentalist

trick, but know what they're thinking

when they meet you or when you ask your

boss for a raise or when you ask a girl

or a guy out on a date,

you knowing that is a huge tactical

advantage. And specifically, how would

you do that? What would you say? What I

would say is in my mind, as a mentalist,

what I do most is prepare. I prepare in

advance for what will work, what won't

work, and all the trouble shoots in

between. Plan A, B, C, D all the way to

Z. So, in that situation, every time I

learn something new, I learned quickly

that people didn't know if I was working

at the restaurant. Am I just some kid

who walked up to you? Well, who is this?

So, I walk at an angle so they know I

might be leaving soon. I'm one foot in,

I'm one foot out. I would then say to

you, "Did you hear what's going on

tonight? It's your lucky day." Right

away, that's a different thing. That's a

dopamine hit. That's the same way when

your phone buzzes. That's why we're

hooked. Who texted me? What does this

say? Is this a like? Is this a comment?

That's that lottery. By me saying to you

a question that denotes positive energy

without a yes or no, you don't have a

way to stop me. If I said, "Hey, do you

want to see me do magic?" No, get out of

here. Boom, we're done. Asking people

questions that are open-ended, that are

inherently positive, almost always

generates a great response. Did you hear

why it's your lucky night? Oh, why is it

my lucky night? And I say, "The owner

brought me in as a special treat to do

something amazing for you." So now,

listen to this. The owner, they know I'm

working there. The owner brought me in.

I know the owner. Social value, social

currency. As a special treat. That means

you don't need to pay me money. They've

paid the bill. Amazing. And then to show

you something amazing. So I've given you

no point at which to say no. I've given

you very few angles to think anything

but positive, and I've done this all in

hopefully less than 10 seconds.

That's the intro. Now, you better have

your A game. I better have a trick

that's going to blow them away and

capture their attention. So let's just

pause there for a second because I think

everybody, whether you're a content

creator or you're working in sales or

you're interviewing people

um to join your company,

what I what I heard there was you you

created this like positive

curiosity gap. Yes. Where immediate And

that's also what Mr. Beast does at the

start of his videos. He

>> The hook, instantly.

>> Yeah. Yeah, he it's like a positive

curiosity gap where you you need that

gap closed. And you said in that case,

they brought me in. Have you heard

what's happening tonight?

>> Yep. It's amazing. You brought me in as

a treat to do something amazing.

Immediately I need to know what this is.

>> What is this?

>> And I don't want you to leave. And then

you'd blow them away somehow.

>> I blow them away, but the lessons to be

learned from there are things that I've

used for the rest of my life and they

apply so much to today's day and age

where what is the currency of our time?

Attention. This very moment that

someone's listening and watching is that

can allow you to blow up a business. We

have never been in an era where your

phone, having a phone, can allow you to

become a global superstar, to launch a

business. It's It's like

100 years ago this didn't exist, this

option. So, knowing how to connect with

people on an emotional level, and then

knowing what does your audience want?

That's what I learned early on. I'm just

knowing how people think and using that

to entertain them. And how much of it is

based on my body language? How much of

it of it is based on how I behave?

Um and I say that because the audience,

you know, that they're all professionals

working in their careers and they're

very keen to better understand people

through observation.

>> Sure. Whether it's their team members or

whether it's clients or whoever it might

be. So, I'm wondering if there's

anything I can learn to be a better

observer of the people in my life.

Absolutely. So, for my performances,

let's break this down. I I'm an

entertainer. That's what I do for a

living. And now, after many years,

people ask me, "How do you do it? How do

you do it?" I've realized you don't want

to know how I do it. Uh you don't

really. If I were to guess, let's do

something fun. You have a deck of cards.

Let's just sweeten the deal. These are

your cards, correct? This is not I've

not touched these. There's no magic

trick involved. These are all cards,

yes. Here's what I'd like to try for

you. Put them down in front of you,

please.

You've mixed them up. Do you want to mix

them some more?

Yes, I do. Please, mix them as much as

you'd like.

Just say that this is I just saw No,

don't say a word. Okay. There you go.

The moment I touch those cards, my brain

flips a switch and goes, "This is a

magic trick." That's what I know. I know

that archetype. I'm not touching those

cards. I couldn't care less about those

cards. Imagine that in front of you

instead was an invisible pack of cards,

Steven. This is where I changed gears,

where years ago I spent hours and hours

learning slight of hand. Pick up the

invisible deck, please. Just pretend.

Just like that. And I want you to

spread them out in front of you.

Face down. You can't see them.

And Steven, you close your eyes.

You reach down and here's the part where

we can't collude because they're

invisible and you don't know what you're

about to do, much less me. And I want

you to reach down and And you just grab

a card at random, face down. Do it for

me now, please.

And stop right there. Freeze.

Have I told you what to do at this

moment? Have I said anything? Is there

any way that you could know what card

you just picked in your hand or I could

know or any of this? No. No. This is

spontaneous, impulsive, and in the

moment. It's the gold standard for what

I do.

Don't say a word. Look at it. Look at

me. Just think.

The cards are red, they're black.

There's the hearts, the diamonds, the

clubs, and the spades. There's the

number cards, there's the big cards.

Ace, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

eight, nine, 10, Jack, Queen, King.

Close your eyes.

That's it. I'm going to take these cards

that are next to you. Oops, sorry.

And I'd like you to keep your eyes

closed if you don't mind.

And this is

not a card trick, but I want a visual

for your eyes. Hold your hand out,

please.

And hold it as if you're holding one

card in your hand. Keep your eyes

closed.

Do not open them.

I'm going to place one card in your

hand. Close your fingers and freeze

right there.

Before you open your eyes, tell us

what was that card?

The

three of diamonds. Hm. Open your eyes.

Take a look.

Hm.

Hm.

It's very It is very, very difficult for

me to understand how you do that.

Now, here is the question. So, I tell

you this, if I were to teach you that,

you could do it. It would take you quite

some time, and you'll learn, and it was

a narrowing down of a lot of options

into one, which is a lot of what I do. I

limit your options, and I read what you

are giving off, cuz there's no magic

trick. There's no sleight of hand

involved in this. Are we in agreement?

This is an invisible deck. You took out

a card. Let's put these away. But,

here's where I would say what's

applicable is knowing how to read people

more effectively in your life, not for

the sake of a trick, but knowing what

they're actually thinking. Now, if

you're watching this and you said you're

a business person, you want a tangible

takeaway for body language. You ask

yourself, was there a body language

thing? Was there something that you did

specifically? Was there a flex of an

arm? Was there a twinge of an eyebrow?

Was there something that you can see?

There are definitely markers, but what I

would describe to people is for a lot of

people they want to know a core thing.

Is someone interested? Yes or no? And is

someone lying? Yes or no? If you could

know those two things, I think that

opens up a world of possibilities. How

many major moments of your life had to

do with if somebody liked or was

interested in what you were doing, be it

in sales or business or or personal, or

somebody was telling you the truth or

lying.

The best way to learn if somebody's

lying to you

is learning their benchmarks. Let me

explain to you what that means. Meeting

somebody one time, it's very hard to

know things about them. One-time

transactions, you can't really gauge who

they are as a person. But how many

people in your life do you meet once?

Few. Most of people you meet, you meet

often. So, a lie detector machine, have

you ever been lie detector machines?

>> Never. So, the way they work is they

have to ask you questions beforehand to

set

your your your benchmarks. They have to

check and they see tell me an honest

answer, is your name Steven Bartlett?

Yes. They look at your indicators to see

what honesty looks like.

And then they look to see, tell me a

lie. And now they try to compare the two

to each other. So, what I do when I

watch people and observe is I try to see

what do they look like when they're

telling me the truth.

And these are fun things you could try

at home. See when somebody tells you a

story, how many details do they insert?

What's their cadence?

Right? How do they speak? You can tell

when people are lying more often than

not if you observe them often. You can

see it. Do they add more details? So,

you can try to find fun ways that seem

to be white lies to see

what do they do when they lie versus

what do they do when they tell the

truth? And then start to trust your

instincts more.

I think a lot of things that I do, I've

unlearned bad habits.

I think that when we were growing up,

most of us had much better BS systems.

When you're two, three, four,

you know if your sibling's lying to you.

You know if people are lying to you very

well. You're kind of very young and

there's an instinct involved that I

think is akin to when I play ping pong.

I can't think about my shot. I just do

the shot. I don't know how I did it. My

body just goes into motion. So, when I'm

performing, I am the way People always

ask me, "Are you doing this in every

moment of your life?" No, it's tiring.

I'm focused, hyper-focused on what

you're doing, and the things that I'm

watching that will give away certain

elements. And I'm influencing you,

there's misdirection, and I'm guiding

you in a certain position in a certain

way to what I want you to select. Let's

say I was trying to sell you something.

Sure. I'm I'm We're doing a

presentation. I'm a marketing agency

owner owner, and I would like you to buy

this marketing campaign from me um

instead of this one or no campaign.

>> Sure. So,

what are some things you could tell me

that I should be thinking about or doing

if I'm selling

to you to make you buy what I would like

you to buy? Number one rule, I call this

channeling your inner mentalist. It's

not about you, it's always about them.

That's been the number one secret to my

success.

I shouldn't have been I've been on all

different networks doing what I do. On

CNBC, I've been on there dozens of

times. That's the financial network. How

many other magicians or mentalists have

ever been on that network?

Zero. It doesn't make sense. That's a

serious network. They do finance. Why

are they bringing me on? Because I

tailor my presentations to the viewer. I

don't think about myself. A card trick

is about me. Me doing something related

to stocks and bonds and and dividends

and interest rates, that is fascinating

to the person watching. The same way if

I go into a room with football players,

I make everything structured on

football. So, I challenge you that when

you make a presentation like that, are

you just thinking about you? Or where

can you highlight the attributes of what

is this person missing? What's wrong

with what their status quo is? What are

you missing? Listen to your Listen to

your consumer. Listen to your client.

Listen to your audience. They will tell

you. They will give you the answers to

what you need to give back to them. So

many people when they approach someone

else, they approach with the following.

How great am I? How great is my product?

Bum bum bum. It's all about me me me.

This needs to be benefits oriented

language. All of it should be you. I

want to make your life easier. I want to

make this migration to our platform

seamless. What's currently bothering

you? I want to know all the things that

you are that are your moments of

resistance. What's resisting you from

saying yes? And every time you tell me

one, I want to be prepared to check that

off. That's so funny you mentioned that.

It's I know you want no downtime. Here's

how we can ensure no downtime, right?

You want to anticipate what they're

going to say the same way a mentalist

does, but in this case, you're not

guessing cards or numbers or names.

You're guessing the thoughts of what's

keeping them from buying your product.

And is that practice per se do you like

if this was

you know, if I was pitching to you and

you're the CEO of Uber Yep. and I want

you to work with my agency. Before I go

into that meeting, you know, you talked

about preparation earlier on. Do you

write down

or just think about the rebuttals or the

person that you're you're contending

with and then try and tailor the

presentation to a set of sort of

ideological ego factors that that that

you believe that person's coming into

the room with?

>> Right.

So, I write down everything. Literally

at one chapter in that book is all about

how taking notes has changed my life.

So, at every show and through every

interaction that I ever have with

somebody, I write down. I had a show

last night, a show the night before. I

will write down I have a shorthand to

make it quicker, but I will write down

everything that I did, everybody that I

met, things that I remember about them,

and I will do this immediately when I

finish the show. If I might have a meet

and greet and photos, the moment it's

done, you'll sometimes see me in an

Uber, in my hotel, and I'm writing

furiously everything while it's still in

my mind and fresh because information is

power and the number one thing that

people care about is themselves, their

family, their friends, their career,

right? All of us are the star of our own

movie. You're the star of your movie.

I'm the star of my movie. Right here the

person man in the camera star everybody

else is supporting cast. So think of it

this way, if you can remember things

about that person, not creepy, what if

they told you something? Last night I

met somebody, she has two children.

They're three and five. Her oldest son

absolutely loves this one YouTube star.

They live I know where they live. Like

she just shared a lot of details with me

that in her mind

are kind of like Snapchats. They

vanished. They didn't vanish to me. So

now that I've written those down, I

might see her in a month, in a year, in

a decade.

Do you know how great that feeling is to

somebody when you remember things they

told you? It's like winning the lottery.

It's literally like you get to do a

magic trick like I do, but people give

you credit. I will remember at shows

who hired me for this show. Oh, they

know this person. Now we have a chain.

We have a referral link. I might see

them again. I guessed their ATM PIN code

3 years ago. It was 6124. I now know

that. I bump into them there and I don't

have a supernatural memory. Another part

of the book is how to improve your

memory, which I think is also a huge

secret to success in life that people

don't realize. We have phones now. We

think our phone does it for us. That's

not true. And I say to him, I go, "John,

I sure hope you changed that PIN code

from 6124." He is blown away. Steven, do

you want to know something? That's not a

trick. I wrote it down. There's no I'll

tell you exactly how I did it. All I did

was take the time to review it before I

got there and made him feel special. And

do you know what he's going to do? He's

going to talk about that moment

for years to come. I've created a

memory. If you can create memorable

moments for others, they will remember

you and they will spread the word to

others and that's how you whatever you

do in life what you do for others is

what's going to eventually propel you to

success. I would say give gratuitously,

but the more gratuitous you give,

there's this funny way in the world

where the universe bounces back, and the

more I do for others, they want to do

the same for me. If you were to make

that really practical for me, so you

have a short hand book which you write

in every time you meet someone, keep

details.

>> You could do it on your phone. Yeah. I

do it on my phone. So, I have calendar

entries. Let's be very clear. Let's give

you brass tacks. I will write in I have

If you look at my phone right now, the

event last night, setlist. I wrote down

the name of the host, his wife, they

have three children, they have twins,

like everything I felt this is very

fresh in my mind, and I'll remember it

for a day, but then it will kind of de-

it will dissipate. Which tricks did I

do? What happened in the tricks? What

were funny moments that were off the

cuff? Who did I meet earlier that day? I

met somebody, and again, I'm writing all

this stuff down because that information

is power. That information, the longer

you hold it, it's a coupon with no

expiration date. And when you serve it

up to that person, in fact, it's the

reverse. The longer you hold on to it,

the more impressive it is. Mhm. If I met

you yesterday, and you told me your

favorite color is magenta, and I say it

to you tomorrow, not that exciting. But

in 2 years, if when I meet you, and we

see a car I go, "Steve, that's your

favorite color magenta, isn't it?" Not

as a trick, just there in your mind,

dopamine. How did you remember that?

You're touched that I remember that

about you.

Right? That's what people care about.

People Think about it again. Their

family, their friends,

their faith, their business, all of

that. The more that you can make someone

else shine,

the better it happens to you. Everything

is about when I

My whole act is geared towards making

other people look good. I was thinking

about this

quite a lot, and I actually posted on my

LinkedIn this morning about the paradox

of small things.

Um

and what I said in the post, it's

reflecting on Jimmy Fallon. I was on his

show this week, and he mentioned that we

have this tradition at the end of the

podcast with the guest. It's a small

thing that we do at the end of the the

show. And the fact that he

remembered it

and told his audience about it, and he

said he brought him to tears. Made me

realize that actually the small things

in life that we often overlook like

remembering someone's name or as you

said their family or some sort of

intricate personal detail,

they're so powerful because most people

don't think they matter. That's it.

>> So when one person in your life

remembers a tiny detail about you that

kind of matters to you, even your name

is something that matters to you,

it's so shockingly rare that it's so

shockingly powerful because most people

think it's so unbelievably petty.

And this is the I think the paradox of

small things that they're actually in

fact really big things. Well, think

about how many small things, if you were

to look at your life and just have these

little roads, these like fork in the

road where one path led to this and I

have those moments where in my life

where somebody said one thing to me,

sometimes offhanded, they don't even

remember it, and it changed the course

of my life.

And those like little moments, I had one

So I worked on Wall Street. I didn't

think that you could be a magician or

mentalist. It's crazy. That it never

even occurred to me as an option. But at

one point, I had I There's two moments,

but one of the big ones is I'm doing

something for the CFO of my company,

Merrill Lynch. He does not know that I

work for the company and I used to do

this magic trick with slight of hand

where I take five $1 bills, I hold them,

I snap, they turn to hundreds. Amazing.

It's It's great trick. And at that

moment, he's an Australian guy and he

goes He goes He goes, "We need you

working here, mate." And everyone laughs

and you know, it's it's a it's a joke

I've heard a hundred times, a thousand

times. And I go, "It's funny, sir. I do

work here." And he thought it was a

joke. I broke character a little. I go,

"No, no, seriously. I work at 95 Green

at your Global Technology Services

Department." And he looked at me, he

goes,

"What are you doing working here?" And

that moment to him, I assume, was

nothing. It was forgotten moments later.

But that moment changed the course of my

life because there was like a switch in

my mind that goes,

"What am I doing working here?" You

know, where you kind of like can

visualize your future? Is this my path?

Is this what I'm going to do forever? Or

am I going to decide that you live one

life and I'm going to go for it? And I

think for a lot of people who are

listening to this, I'm not saying to

quit your job, but ask yourself, look in

the mirror, is this what I want to be

doing? And I think for a lot of people

they might want more, whether that's

their own business, whether it's to

climb the rung of a ladder, and it's

that moment that somebody can change

your life and take action, and decide

I'm going to do it, but also formulate a

plan, be effective and smart in your

execution. And in your case, you know,

leaving Merrill Lynch to go and become a

mentalist is quite quite a leap. A huge

leap. Everyone thought I was crazy. Same

with Derren Brown, you No, no one said

to me, "Oh, this is a great idea." Even

though I've got to tell you the truth,

most people were very happy for me, but

behind closed doors, I think they

thought, "This kid, you know, he's

nuts." Well, you kind of were nuts,

because statistically,

probabilistically, the chance of you

becoming

a quote-unquote successful mentalist is

extremely low.

>> Extremely low.

I mean, like there's there's probably

like a handful of mentalists that earn

a lot of money. I would say it's a very

low number, but here's the question you

should ask yourself, why not you? That

like the framing of that is always Of

course there's statistics, but why not

me? And so, I think the way you think in

your mind, the voice in your head that

tells you that loop, determines things.

So, it's all about setting yourself up

for success rather than failure. How

much of being a mentalist is

understanding human behavior versus

>> Everything. I don't even know how to

answer it. It's literally that's that's

I'm a student of the human like how

people behave. But in the the practice

of it, cuz Derren Brown is I consider

him a friend. And if anything I've

learned from him, and I do think he's

the most incredible person on and off

camera, it's that

much of his work is making you think the

trick is happening here.

>> 100%. But actually, the trick is

happening happening over here, and he's

misdirecting you to focus on my left

hand, and the trick is taking place in

my right hand. That's I couldn't be more

true. That's exactly it, but that's that

is knowing human behavior.

>> Explain to me why. I don't want to say

controlling, cuz it sounds very devious,

but I'm controlling your attention and

your thoughts.

I'm guiding you in a certain way

to either select what I'd like or to

give away something that you feel you

have not given away.

Should we Should we do a fun example?

>> Sure.

Do you know off the top of your head how

many episodes you've had of this show? I

think it's roughly 500. I believe so.

Close your eyes. I want to make this a

visual game.

You're in this room of all different

people that you've looked at, you've

seen, that you respect. Okay? Some of

them could have been guests on the show.

And then

you get a tap on the shoulder. You turn

around. You look at this person.

And it's somebody you've met before,

100%.

And they say something to you. They've

said it to you before, and you get deja

vu, and it's something impactful. It

left an impression on you. Is that a

fair assessment?

>> Yeah.

And that inherently right there, boom,

that makes you think of another person.

I don't know whether

I don't think they mentioned this other

person, but something about that

takeaway or that that thought or that

moment of clarity or wisdom made you

think of someone else in your life. It

was connected to them. This next person,

person number two I'm calling, they

jumped over. Open your eyes. When was

the last time you had spoken to that

person?

The person number two? Yeah.

Um

today. Today. Okay, let's let's lean

into this. Think of their first name.

Count the letters to yourself.

Don't say it. Yeah.

And somebody you know well, you've

spoken to them today. I watched your

eyes. You went up, up, up, up, up, up.

Five letters, isn't it?

Yeah.

You asked me how I do it. You said, "Do

I study people?" You just gave it away

yourself.

There's five letters to choose from.

There's 26 in the alphabet.

Pick any letter in this person's first

name. Mix them up a little. Yeah. And

then you grab one out, and you just

decide this is the letter I want to

focus on. Yeah. Now, knowing you,

knowing you as an entrepreneur,

knowing you, the way you give

interviews, I think I know what you

would want to do.

Knowing that you know Derren Brown, you

know how some of this works. So, your

instinct was to go against your instinct

cuz you go, I know this would be

obvious. You didn't think of the first

letter, did you? No. You didn't want to.

You thought that would give it away.

Yeah. Because once I know that, it's

easier to figure out the rest. And then

I know there's vowels in the name. And

so, inherently you said,

that limits my subset. You didn't do a

vowel, did you?

No.

L, are you thinking of an L?

No. I got it.

It's funny because by you saying no, it

means you gave away both.

I've written this down. Can you close

your eyes? For the viewers who are

watching this as a video, I'm going to

show them.

And for everybody else to know who's

just listening in their headphones while

running or doing something, this can't

change what I wrote down. Open it up.

Open it up to your You thought of an S,

but switched from the L. Is that

correct? Tell us all, what is their

first name?

Jules. Jules. Mhm.

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You know, you walk into rooms and people

hear that you're a mentalist, so they're

already like somewhat on edge. Yeah. And

you can see you can see that they're on

edge, right?

>> Yeah, you got to sweeten it because It's

how do you What do you do about that?

Cuz everywhere you go, people are going

to be like, "Fuck this guy. He might be

able to guess my You know, that's what

they're thinking. They're thinking he

can guess my bank pin, so I'm going to

give nothing away." So, you must be

meeting people that are like closed off

your entire life. How do you get them to

go from closed to open up? I think it's

being likable. So, this Think about it.

If you met somebody who could really

read your mind, and I can't read minds.

Just I want to be clear throughout the

process cuz people say, "Oh, what's he

trying to teach?" I can't read minds.

I'm not psychic. I am not supernatural.

I don't claim to be. You could do this.

Maybe not as well because I think

there's an inherent talent. Just same as

musical talent. I can't play a guitar. I

can't sing to save my life. No matter

how much training you give me, I will

never have the voice of Harry Styles or

Ed Sheeran. It's not in the cards for

me. But, you're tricking me to think

that my eye movements played a role.

>> So, I will tell you this. I am tricking

you to believe that certain things are

more important than others. Your eye

movements and body language play a role,

but whether it played a 10% role, a 50%

role, 100% role, that's 100% true. My

job is to misdirect you and to use

multiple methods Yeah. so that as soon

as you go down a path and you think you

got me,

I jump to the next lane. I do it a

different way. There's also a

possibility that 0% of

that trick you just did was about my

eyes. I I didn't say it was about your

eyes though, did I? You said you looked

up the 1 2 3 4 5 letters of

>> true. Try for yourself though. Honestly,

try for yourself. How many letters

somebody counts,

if they have a long name, it takes

longer to process. You aren't going to

be able to use a name and counting the

number of letters in your day-to-day

life.

>> Mhm. So, if I were to show you how to do

it, you were to attempt it, and you were

to get it right 75% of the time, which

you'd be shocked that you would, you'd

then go, "Now what?"

Who cares? Most of you are not going to

take and spend the next decades learning

mentalism. Rather, I'm going to try and

take the most important parts of

mentalism and show you how you can use

them. Another huge one is just

confidence. How do people build

confidence? When I was 14 and I started

doing this, was I this hyper-confident

teenager? No. My folks just got

divorced. My life was pretty tumultuous.

I think I did this as a way to not have

to deal with all of the trauma and kind

of sadness. And confidence gets built

over time. So, what's a better way to

fast-track that? For a lot of people,

you walk into a room, you have to give a

presentation,

are you nervous as hell? I think most

people would say yes. Would you agree to

that?

What can you do tomorrow to get in there

and feel like you own the room, the same

way I go on TV for a million people, or

right now for millions? I think there's

so much of it has to do with there's a

panic that we have in us, where we take

and we fear a certain feeling, which is

I have certain things that I dread

doing. Like, let's say I have to call

someone and give a call of things I

don't want to say. I have to I have to

turn someone down for something. I I

hate that. I'm avoiding it at all

lengths, the same way you procrastinate

things you don't want to do.

I have this little trick in my mind,

where what I do is I ask myself, "What

will I feel like tomorrow about this?"

What will I feel like tomorrow? What if

I could fast-forward my feelings to

tomorrow? And instead of just, you know,

up in the air, try it. Right now, what's

something that you, the listener, don't

want to do? You don't want to call

someone, you don't want to deliver bad

news. You know this person's about to

ream you out. You're avoiding it at all

costs. You're moving it in your calendar

to tomorrow, the next You keep doing

that. Do it now.

And I want you to set an alarm 24 hours

from now. Put it in your in your I'm not

I'm for real. Put an alarm that says

tomorrow. Write down how you feel about

this. Scale of one to 10.

Right when you finish the call, you're

going to feel in the dread before you're

going to feel an eight, nine, 10 of

dread. The next day when the alarm goes

off, ask yourself, how do I feel? Most

of the time you feel nothing. Two or

three. It's out of sight, out of mind.

So, what if you could trick your brain

the same way I tricked you to think your

eye movements have anything to do with

it? Trick your own brain to see how you

feel a day from now. You feel nothing.

So, what if you can just start doing

that to yourself? Rewire your brain and

say, "I'm going to feel nothing in a

day. Screw it. I'm going to do it now."

And just that trick of getting over

procrastination

builds a tremendous amount of

confidence. Another one is I would walk

up to tables and people would kick me

out. They'd be like, "Get out of here.

Go do kid." They wouldn't pay attention

to me. Things that would hurt my

feelings. So, what I did is I created in

my mind some way where I have two

separate personalities. This guy was Oz

the entertainer, Oz the magician, now Oz

the mentalist.

This guy was Oz Pearlman. They don't

know the real me. That's a different

guy. So, when I walked up to a table and

got turned down or rudely rejected,

instead of me feeling that pain in

myself,

I pushed it somewhere else. And I go,

"You know what? They didn't like Oz the

entertainer. That's a different guy.

That's not me." And so, the same way

that if you took right now a bowl of

water right here and we poured salt in

the water, it's salt water. But, what if

we could take an invisible small piece

of plastic and put it right down the

center. And now you pour all the salt in

one side. This side is immune. This is

fresh water. If you can do that in your

own mind, the same way that I use my

tricks to trick your mind, trick your

own mind.

That will take away the sting cuz so

many of us we don't go after our goals

because we're scared of what happens if

they don't work out. It's all about

accountability. You fear the rejection.

And if you can get over that, it is a

superpower in life. The same way you

asked me, how did you know it was going

to work? Because I stopped thinking

about it not working. And people that

have that singular focus on making

something work, those are the

entrepreneurs. Those are the people that

you see achieve. Those are the athletes.

Those are the people who have a hyper

fixation and focus on a goal that they

will make it happen. They manifest it.

And what about communication, your

communication style, and how important

that is? Like, what what what are you

thinking about when you're communicating

as an entertainer to make sure people

are paying attention and they're

engaged? Be watching the audience all

the time. The audience never lies. So,

you have to really assess what the

audience is throwing at you. And I'm

seeing people, and I'm seeing are they

interested? Are they on the edge of

their seat? Are they leaning forward?

Indicators of interest. Are they sitting

back and checking their watch? Are they

yawning? Obviously, you can't do this

with everybody. When I'm in a room with

a thousand people, maybe one guy's

hungover. Maybe their baby didn't sleep

last night and they had a red-eye

flight. I can't know everyone, but I can

watch individuals and see how they're

reacting to me, and I can quickly change

and pivot and see how I can continue

keeping their attention. And if I was

listening to this right now, am I

turning it off? Am I fast-forwarding? Am

I getting tangible takeaways? If I get

three things from this that I can put

into action tomorrow, this is a smash

success. Because if I get one thing that

somebody says to me, like one tidbit

that they say, I feel like that can

change your life, then take action. I'm

all about action because I think in so

many instances, there's no

accountability. Inspiration and

motivation is garbage. I could care less

if I've inspired you. I want action.

What is your goal? Do you want to lose

weight? Do you want to make a certain

amount of money? Are you making a

million dollars next year? Is that

really going to make you happy? So, a

lot of the time we make goals that we

think of, but then we get them, you

know, I have made more money in the last

10 years than if you'd asked me 10 years

ago I dreamt possible. Does that make

you happy? It makes life easier, but I

don't think it's just pure fulfillment.

I know a lot of people that are very,

very wealthy, and they aren't happy.

I'm around a lot of wealthy people. It's

just the nature of my thing. And And I

ask myself, they're billionaires, and if

this isn't making you happy, what is? I

don't think that money is always the

goal that you should attain. I

understand why I didn't have a lot of

money as a kid, so that was like a

barometer of success for me. But as I

have kids, and as I see that life is

short and feel my mortality, I realize

some things are much more important than

money. But if you have a goal, let this

be the cue not to inspire you, but to

literally take action. Right now, what

is it that you want to do? I Somebody

talked to me the other day and said,

"Man, I love watching you run. I would

love to run." Stop. Start running.

Tomorrow, put a reminder in your

calendar. Literally, tomorrow, my first

run.

Then put one 30 days from now to make

sure you're accountable, and then decide

what makes you accountable. For me, I

don't like to be embarrassed. So, I'm

going to write to 10 people that I know

and tell them I'm signing up for a 10K.

So that now, if I don't go through with

it, it's going to come up in a future

conversation, and they're going to say,

"Hey, Steve, whatever happened with the

10K?" Now, I have to eat humble pie with

10 different people and say to them,

"You know what? I didn't do it." Oh. Oh,

okay, you didn't do it. I want that to

be my motivator. Maybe your motivator's

internal, maybe it's external, but find

what motivates you and use those levers

to generate action. You know, in your

profession, a lot of the like with

Derren Brown, a lot of it is he'll make

you think that like we said earlier,

like it's it's my right hand, but

actually it's my left.

>> Yep.

How Like how do you contend with

being someone who whose job it is to

sort of misdirect me, to make me think

it's my right hand, not my left, or

whatever,

but then also

trying to give people information that

will make them successful in their

lives?

>> Right. Well, the ethics of it. Like the

>> trying to sell you anything about being

a mind reader or a mentalist. This is a

separate pursuit. The skills surrounding

everything I do,

those skills, it's like How to Win

Friends and Influence People. It's a

book I've read over and over and over.

It's

It's I don't want to say it's dated, but

it's of a different era.

The skills that allowed me to reach near

the top of my profession aren't the

tricks. There's other people that can do

that. There's other people that can do

this. There's other people that can

guess your card. So, what led me to

here? Do I do it better than them?

I'll let you decide that.

My secrets to success are the exact same

ones you can apply to your life. That's

the key. The fact that I've made it

about them, not me.

How have I been on all these TV shows?

How have I had such a wide diversity?

Has nothing to do with performing. It

has to do with me turning the mirror

around. The moment you realize that you

will be successful in your life when you

start making other people the star,

thinking about them, thinking about

what's going on in their head. That's

true mentalism. What are they thinking

and how do I deliver on that? How do I

make them look good? How do I make them

like me more? How do I win them over?

So, that when the moment comes for them

to recommend somebody or to give them a

raise or do something, they know that

you're the person that they think of

first. And I think those skills,

again, I wouldn't It's not really

mentalism, but it's the exact same tools

that I use. It's not guessing numbers or

names. It's knowing how to influence

others.

And if I wasn't able to influence

people, none of the things I just did

would work. You would just say, "No, I'm

not going to do that."

On the skill of listening, which I I

think is also so important to what

you're saying there about being likable

and winning people over,

do you have a system or a framework for

being a great listener? You talk about

it a little bit in the book near the

end. I think you have five ways to

become a better active listener. Yes.

Can you run me through those? Sure.

Should I give you a funny story? Should

I kind of lead this off? So, I did a

party for Steven Spielberg. Yeah. Um it

was his father's 90th birthday. It was

pretty intimate affair.

I was noticeably nervous in my mind, not

for the performance, but to meet Steven

Spielberg. So, he defined an era of my

childhood and I feel like likely for a

billion or several billion other people.

So, at the end of the show, he comes up

to thank me, and I'm I'm ready. I was

able to ask Steven Spielberg

zero questions.

Do you know why?

He

talked to me the whole time. He kept

asking me questions, rapid-fire this and

about my life and about what drove me

and this and I just wanted to keep being

like, "Pause. I got questions for you.

You're Steven Spielberg." He made it all

about me.

All about me, and I learned that that

day that that it's a greater power to

listen, and that the most interesting

person in a room

tends to be the most interested person

in the room. And that some of the people

I've seen that are the most successful,

the most authentic and genuine, they

will look you in the eye, they will lock

in, they will not be looking around at

other people, and they will give you

their 100% undivided attention,

and they will ask you questions that

other people haven't asked you before.

And I challenge you, don't just do the

normal question when you meet somebody.

Oh, what do you do for a living? Oh,

what

We, as soon as we do that, we go into

autopilot. I go into autopilot, and I'm

not judging you.

Most people do that, right? 50% of

people have to be below average, right?

And And 49.9% are above average. That's

inherently the va-

Challenge yourself to be the outlier,

and think of a question you can ask

someone if you have time to

think of it in advance or in the moment

that throws them out of autopilot, that

makes them think, "Wow, I haven't really

thought of that before." Asking

questions that are not yes or no

questions are also great. Ask questions

that let them explore who they are. I

think that's a big part of active

listening. And I let the audience guide

me

to what's of interest to them.

When we walked in here today, I said to

think of a favorite

of of a category. If I knew the

category, would I be able to guess what

the answer was?

No.

What is the question? You know what? Uh

tell it to me. I don't even want I don't

want to write anything down. I want you

to just say it out loud. Give me the

question. What is the question that you

have defined the answer to? Give me that

question. Ask it to me. What is my

favorite car. What is my favorite car?

Yeah.

And you think there's no way I could

know that.

No prior research could have alerted me

to it. No prior research, no.

You decide, the same way that you do

with jewels, I want you

to think of the name of the car, whether

it's the brand, whether it's the make,

and I want you

to pick

one letter

out from anywhere. From From I is I'm

assuming it's more than one word unless

you just said Ford. I Again, I don't

want to lead you, but if it is more than

one word,

and if it's two, three, four words,

decide on one of the words. Have you

decided on one of the words? Yeah. Oh,

one of the words.

>> Don't say another word. Now, you just

saying that was interesting. Decide on

one of the words Yeah. and pick one of

the letters, something interesting to

you. Grab the one letter and just focus

on that one letter. Yeah. You have it?

>> Yeah.

Now you ask me. You said, "It's all

misdirection, right? The eye movements,

that this is all just window dressing."

But you just gave something away.

You said, "One of the words."

with a question.

Because you were confused. You didn't

know what to do

if there was only one word. I would

never have said that if it was three

words. Why would it be one of the words?

Of course it's one of the words. So you

did one, and then I think

this one went through your head. You

read You went to the last Did you think

of the last letter

of it?

No. Okay. So that would have been my

first guess. But now that you didn't,

I'm going to go back.

Are you thinking of the letter Y?

No.

Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini. It's not

like you.

Close your eyes.

>> Open your eyes. I've written it down. I

can't change my mind.

What car is it? It's uh it's my

Cybertruck.

It is your Cybertruck. That's what I

thought it would be.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was thinking of the letter T. T?

I did it originally think of Y. You did?

Yeah, and then I moved to to T. Yeah.

If I got it right every time, it would

be a magic show.

So, sometimes when you perform, you

things must go wrong sometimes.

>> It depends like what level they go wrong

at what scale. Yeah. If it goes just

destructively, like catastrophically

wrong, it's not always good.

>> Tell me a time when it went

catastrophically wrong.

>> Oh, so you can dig up old TV appearances

uh from 15 years ago where just, you

know, it purely I started learning that

if you do something linear, which is if

I

show you my hand and tell you where this

is going,

then you have the power. What do I mean

by that? If I said, "I'm going to guess

this,"

and then I get it wrong, then you know I

got it wrong. Mhm. What if you don't

know the ending of the movie? Then if I

show you an alternate ending, you don't

know that the movie wasn't supposed to

end that way. So, I learned early on

that I'm not going to let you hold the

cards. I hold the cards. So, when you

even the the the notion of get it wrong

means you knew what making it getting it

right was. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. But what if you don't know what

getting it right was because I'm

doing so many different things at once

that I will eventually find a way to get

it right. Mhm. You see what I mean?

Yeah.

And have you learned any ways to break

the ice in social situations? You talk I

think you talk about You do, you talk

about this a little bit in the book, but

um you you one of the ways that you

talked about is object sort of handling

the objection that you're assuming one

has, approaching from a different angle.

But just generally in life when you meet

these people and you're trying to disarm

people

>> Yes. is there anything else that is

worth knowing there that people can use

for that in their everyday lives? I like

having an inner monologue out loud. So,

I like to take things that I know

everyone is thinking and

open up, show some vulnerability. So, a

great way you're in an uncomfortable

social setting, what do you want to do?

You want to shut down. You want to be

here? I think walking up to somebody has

a real power and say

"I'm so nervous. I don't know anyone

here. Do you know anyone here?" Like,

that moment of opening yourself up and I

don't want to call it oversharing cuz

some people take that to too much of a

degree and start you know, telling you

too much, but showing that you are a

real person and vulnerable, I think just

it's a it's a magical quality. And I've

had people that do it to me that you

gain an intimacy and a familiarity with

them very quickly that you wouldn't have

if you were just small talking each

other. Have you ever met those people

that have that instant charisma that

when they walk in the room everyone

gravitates towards them? And you don't

know what that is. What is that quality

they have? Did they train it? Is it

innate? Are they born with it?

Um for me, I didn't have that. So, I

cheated and started doing magic tricks.

I remember Jimmy Carr saying to me that

you know, people think comedians are

depressed whatever, but he said a better

question to ask is

always who are you trying to cheer up?

Right.

And I wonder if that's relevant at all

to your situation.

I think I was trying to connect with

people. Yeah. I think that I was

nervous, a little bit awkward. I wasn't

introverted. I had no problem with

walking up to strangers,

but I think that it became this

just uh this addiction Mhm. to watching

people

being amazed and overjoyed in the

reactions. I live for the reactions.

Some people

that do magic, they do it for

themselves. And in a guilty way, I kind

of do as well because there is a selfish

angle to seeing reactions, but to me

it's more the joy. And to this day, what

I like to say that I do for a living is

not deceive. My job is not to fool you.

My job is to create memorable moments.

Not amazing moments. Amazing is a

subset, memorable. Because if I amaze

you and you forget it, I have failed. I

failed. It's the same as if I walk into

a movie that's an action movie. I eat a

lot of popcorn. I walk out. 10 minutes

later you say to me, "What was the movie

about?" I don't know. Right that I don't

know. And a month later you ask me,

"Have you seen that movie?" And I go,

"Did I see that movie?" That right

there, that response, is the death for

what I do, apathy. And in in the book in

page 166 you talk about improving one's

memory.

>> Yes. What do I need to know? Why does it

matter to improve my memory? And in what

way does improving my memory help me to

connect with other people? So, we've

gotten to the point where we don't need

our memory, right? A lot of people don't

know how to drive to a place, a city

next door. They literally with if GPS

went out, good luck, right? You don't

know anyone's phone numbers. How many of

your friends' phone numbers do you have

memorized?

Few and far between.

One.

>> Exactly. Tomorrow, your iPhone goes

away, no no no Apple, no cloud, you're

screwed. You're screwed, am I right? If

you can't get that back, your life is

So, what do we need our memory for? I

think memory is a superpower because no

one expects you to have it anymore.

Years ago you needed Now you don't. So,

I'm going to give a great example, one

that I have in my book, which is

something applicable where you can't

cheat. Cheat is I have my phone and I

feel a lot of us, whether we're parents

or kids or teenager or any of stage of

life you are, you're going to meet new

people at some point soon. You meet

them, you shake their hand, you say

hello.

You just forgot their name. Literally

they just said it to you

and you forgot it. How many times has

this occurred to you? I'm guessing

numerous. And now you can't enjoy that

conversation because all you do is feel

dread. Now you're looking for someone

around that you know to introduce them

and pray to God you go, "This is Steven.

Say hello." Like tell him your name, you

know, you want that moment. So, I have a

a a

a tip for that specific situation as

well as others for memory.

But I've repurposed the instructions on

a shampoo bottle, so it sticks in your

head. Shampoo bottles have three words

on the back. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Right? Lather makes your hair smell

good. Rinse cleans your hair. Repeat, we

got to sell more Pantene Pro-V.

So, we all know that. Everyone knows

lather, rinse, repeat. I will describe

it as this. Listen, repeat, reply.

Listen, repeat, reply. So easy. The

first step sounds silly. It's comical.

Why am I even saying this? The first

step is what 95% of us do wrong. We

don't actually listen.

When you hear that person's name, it's

not a memory issue. You never even knew

the name to begin with because right

when you walked up to them, just like a

computer, read-write, very hard to read

and write at the same time for our

brains. You were thinking of something

else. You were thinking of what you were

going to say back to them in most

instances. So, at that moment, the

number one thing to do is actually

listen. Quiet your mind. So simple, so

easy, but that's where we screw up.

Right when I walk up to you, I make sure

that I've heard your name because I

instantly repeat it

twice. Steven, is it Steve or Steven? I

want to make sure. I've just said your

name three times. Already your chance of

forgetting it have gone down

dramatically. The last one is reply,

which is use one of the three following

tactics. One,

you could learn how to spell it. You

have a name that can be spelled. So, I

go, "Is it Steven with a V or a PH?" And

you with a V, I go, "I like Steven with

a V better. That's the right way. Am I

right?" So, now I've associated it,

Steven with a V.

If it's not a name like that, if it's,

you know, Jacob, you're not going to

spell that. I'm going to say to you, uh

uh

I might comment. I go, "Jacob, I love

that shirt. Where'd you get that from?

The V-neck, Jacob, really sharp." So,

now I've created a visual

hook. You're Jacob with the V-neck

shirt. Now I remember you. Third one is

is if you want, you can do something

that's a connector to someone else you

know. So, if I know a Steven, it's so

funny, you know, my sister's dating a

guy named Steven. Small world.

So, you've really quickly connected it.

That happens in 5 seconds, what I just

said. Everyone likes a compliment.

Everyone likes a hook. You will not

forget that person's name for the rest

of the party. I promise you. And this

works on people of all ages. It's not a

memory issue. If you can remember your

best friend's name, you can remember the

name of somebody you met at a party

after 5 seconds, if you practice and do

exactly what I just said.

And I think a huge part of it, as

someone that does meet a lot of people,

is you go into the the meetings with

people. And because you don't really

think the small stuff matters, you don't

think Most people don't think someone's

name matters that much. They think

they're walking into the presentation,

they're pitching for a million dollars,

they're thinking about the campaign,

they're thinking about, you know, how

they're going to

structure the offer. They're not

thinking about the name being pertinent.

So, you walk in, you shake hands, "Hi,

Deborah. Nice to meet you, Deborah." You

walk to your chair, you're still

thinking about the campaign, the

campaign, the campaign. And within 3

minutes, you've lost their name. And um

I do think it really has a huge impact

when

I I When I was reading your book, I was

thinking, like, "Do you know what? I

don't do a good job of that. I meet

loads of people all the time. I walk up,

I say my name, they say theirs. For me,

that's not important information."

Right. Um and and I thought, "You know

Until you get it wrong, and then then

that's the memory they carry of you. I

would say to people, "If you don't know

someone's name,

we think that it's a dreadful thing to

ask them again." It's an avoidable thing

with this, but I would still say that

you're still showing interest, and

there's a few tactics around it, but

say, "Forgive me, but I really would

like to know. I don't know why it

slipped my mind. Tell me your name

again, please." I think even that is a

much better way to play it, because

again, you're human, they're human,

everyone's vulnerable. I don't think

there's anything wrong with that. So,

I'm okay with letting people know that

there's a human side, and humanize it.

And sometimes, if I can't figure it out,

I will. But I'll say, "Give me a clue."

And I go, "Help me out. Tell me where

it's like, 'Oh my god.'" And sometimes,

I have a memory hook, and and remember

who introduced us. I'll go, "Oh, I met

you through Steven."

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And what else what else should should we

should my audience know about? You're

someone that focuses on the audience.

What else should they know about that

you think can directly improve their

life?

I mean, I've given you a lot of like the

core tenants that I think have made me

successful, which is eliminating that

fear of rejection,

utilizing notes, making it about other

people. I think I think wrapping things

up in a story is a huge one that we

touched upon lightly, but that Why why a

story? Because stories are remembered.

Stories are interwoven into our DNA.

Each of us have a story to tell. I think

such a big one is deciding what makes

you memorable. The more that you can

become memorable to others, the more

people talk about you,

it benefits you no matter what you do in

life. When you meet somebody, know that

you're going to weave the narrative

of what they leave, what they think of

you, right? You have to

kind of their memory is malleable.

There's a trick I used to do when I was

a teenager where I would have somebody

pick a card. It was a card trick.

They would put the card back in. They

would sign it. I would throw it on the

ceiling. The deck would fall down, but

their signed card stayed stuck on the

ceiling. But when they described the

procedure back to someone else,

they would leave out the part with me

throwing the deck.

Why did they forget such an important

detail?

And I I couldn't understand why. It's

not that their memory was faulty.

Something happened.

I realized what it was. What I put my

attention on, they put their attention

on. Like everything in life. If you're

focused on the negative, you start to

feel negative. I, when I threw the deck

up, sometimes wouldn't look up with it.

I would throw the deck up. I wouldn't

look, and then I'd catch it. Such a

small minute detail, but me doing that

meant I caught the deck. No one knew

what happened, and I let them

look up and discover the card themselves

rather than me do it. Somehow in that in

their brain, they

deleted that one detail of me throwing

the deck. And now I had a miracle. And

that changed my way of thinking from

there on out, which I said to myself, it

doesn't matter what I do, it matters

what people remember.

And what's the story they tell others?

The thing I really learned from that is

that

your focus is driving someone else's

focus. So, when I'm you know, when I'm

going through my life,

I need to make sure my focus is in the

right place, the place that I want you

to it to be. And I notice that sometimes

as a podcaster because obviously so I'm

trying to manage this conversation and

I've got these notes written in front of

me. I've got pens, books, props. I've

got a little net in the front of me that

has photos in it and other bits and

pieces and all this stuff. And I do

notice that during the podcast

conversation, if I don't look up at the

guest and I start looking down a little

bit or even if I'm just looking down to

see my next bullet point or to think

about something, Right. I distract the

guest.

But it also in everyday life, the other

thing that I think we're all guilty of

and you talk about this in your book, is

um

we sometimes reach for our phone a

little bit. Right. The card story,

that's what it said to me. It said that

oh my god, people's focus really is

where your focus is. So, if I'm having a

great conversation with you and you're a

client or something and I just glance at

my watch, you just did it then with me

again. You just glanced down at my hand.

>> Right. And I never realized until you

said that card thing how important it

was to make sure my focus is in the

right place. Your focus is in the right

place, but also know the fact that your

memory is malleable. So, in my

profession, I employ all different

tactics. I can tell you one is

confusion.

Your brain is it's very difficult for

your brain to read and write at the same

time. So, if I want to distract you from

a method and I confuse you, then it's

exactly like an Etch-A-Sketch. Maybe

you've drawn a picture and the moment

you get confused and you go

you forget what you just did exactly.

And the Etch-A-Sketch has just been

shaken and now you can't recount the

series of events properly. And at that

moment, you've now created this

beautiful watercolor painting that

hasn't dried. I can move some of the

pieces around and I can redraw your

picture a little bit, and I can change

your memory of what it is. I, during

certain points when I'm performing, and

this has to do with you talked about

public speaking and storytelling,

I tell you the story that you're going

to tell others, and I take out the

pieces I want out. I want this gone, I

want this gone, I want this gone. I'm

going to edit your memories. Give me a

specific example.