that is the most widely prescribed drug

in this country and I believe in the US

also. But the list of problems acrewing

from long-term use is beginning to grow

and is serious cancers, dementias. But

the other thing is is that once you're

on it, it's really difficult to come off

it. And that's not all. We use far too

many antibiotics and that's coming a

serious health issue now because the

number of people dying from antibiotic

resistance infections is beginning to

rise dramatically. It's quite

frightening. So, are there alternatives

on this table that I should also

consider as a form of medicine?

>> Oh, yes. And most of these ones I'm

going to be talking about have a pretty

immediate effect. Now, have a bite of

this.

>> Wa. For almost 50 years, Dr. Simon Mills

has pioneered how we think about natural

medicine, earning global recognition as

one of the most respected and

influential herbal practitioners of our

time.

>> These things have medicinal properties.

So, let's start with dark chocolate. In

terms of long-term brain health and

cardiovascular health, it's one of the

best medicines around.

>> Really?

>> Oh, yes. The next one is garlic. And in

some parts of the world, they use garlic

instead of penicellin. In fact, there

was an old trick where if you had enough

garlic, breathe on a petri dish and you

could kill various pathogens just by

your breath.

>> Wow.

>> And then there's this to reduce your

cholesterol levels. This can really help

with your eyesight. This is your blood

flow, gut health, cardiovascular health.

Now, this is one of the ones to watch in

terms of long-term brain health.

Rosemary, we actually did a clinical

trial on this, and all you need to do is

press it and sniff. So, you can see why

some of this stuff already is powerful.

Now, we have more to go through. And

this is where it gets interesting.

There's a lot of people listening who

will want to hear this coffee.

>> Oh god, what do I need to know?

>> So,

I see messages all the time in the

comments section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because a strange way

you are you're part of our history and

you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you

Simon Mills. You are a pioneer by all

accounts in what is called complimentary

medicine, but you're also one of the

most respected herbal practitioners in

the world. You've been doing this for

more than 50 years. I've actually never

spoken to somebody that has a

comprehensive understanding of herbal

remedies and herbal medicine. So, I'm

super excited to have this conversation

with you today. What is the what is the

mission you're on and why do you think

it's important?

I think my main mission is to do what I

can to help people get stronger. I

sometimes say that, you know, the world

is pretty rough out there. I can't do

anything about the sea and the waves,

but I can help you to build a better

boat that can sit better in the water.

And I think people relate to that that

if they were felt a bit stronger in

themselves, they would be able to cope

better with what life throws at them. I

chose plants because people have always

used plants as their primary source of

medicine. People have always grown up

with plants. They've evolved along with

plants. And what I aim to do is to put

the old wisdoms into some scientific

framework and then make it fit with

conventional norms of healthcare.

You were a board member of the British

Herbal Medicine Association. You're the

first chair of the Council for

Complimentary Alternative Medicine

launched in Parliament by former Prime

Minister Alec Douglas Hol. You led a

major European Commission project on

herbal medicine involving over 20

centers across Europe. You're the

secretary of the European Scientific

Cooperative on

>> Phytootherapy.

>> I was not able to say that word

>> which is the which is the polite way of

saying herbs. Okay.

>> So, it's phyto plant therapy.

>> Well, I think when people think about

herbal medicine and using plants as a

form of medicine, they think of tribes

and they think of I don't know sort of

ancient Chinese traditions. And I think

you know the modern westerner thinks of

pills.

>> Yes. when they think of medicine.

>> Yes.

>> What What is it that we've lost? Is

there like a lost wisdom?

>> Yes.

>> And how did that happen? And what what

is it we've lost?

>> When we lived in the countryside, when

we lived close to nature, that was very

much around us. And and in every little

community, there'd be someone, usually a

woman, who would know their way around

the plants and would, you know, help you

out when you had a illness and a

sickness. I'm not saying that there's a

golden age, but when we moved into

cities, we lost a lot apart from

anything else. We were living on top of

each other. We had to drink each other's

water. You know, there was a lot of new

illnesses, sicknesses, pestilences, and

so on that only came in cities. In that

world, the herbs couldn't cut it. So, we

needed stronger stuff. So, they started

using minerals. They started using

things that were poisons.

And the original physician's job was to

be the only guy who could handle

medicines that other people would not be

safe to use. And so you got your

training to use these much more powerful

medicines. And it was thought that the

old plant things were too soft and

gentle and so they were generally

discarded. And then you developed these

medicines into pills because often they

were powders anyway. And you know then

the pharmaceutical industry came in and

branded and and made um proprietary

materials from them. And that drifted a

long way from just going down to a

hedro, going into the garden, going to

the kitchen and picking up remedies.

>> A lot of cultures around the world still

use plants as the first form of

medication for a variety of different

sort of illnesses and diseases. Right.

>> They do. Yes. I mean, most do. I mean,

if you were Inuit and Northern

Territories in Canada and so and Alaska,

you would probably not have very many

plants to choose from, but for most

other people, they surrounded by plants.

That's their world.

>> I think, you know, cuz I'm what, 32

years old, so I've not really grown up

with the wisdom of plants and how they

can be used to treat some of the

illnesses that I have from a very young

age. I'm taking cough syrup and I'm

taking paracetamol when I have a

headache and all these kinds of pills

and medicines, but plants were never a

really a part of that conversation.

>> And I guess that makes me think that

they don't work or

>> that's what most people would now think.

And one of one of the points of this

conversation now is to point you to ways

in which they can and to show you how

you can figure that out within a minute

or an hour. Most of these ones I'm going

to be talking about have a pretty

immediate effect. So it, you know, we

now think, oh, if you take a herb, it

may take months before anything happens.

When I see a patient, my usual request

to them is, can you call me tomorrow to

let me know how it's going because

things happen so fast? And if you're up

for it, you can do a couple of taste

tests and you can see why some of this

stuff really is powerful.

What is it that that you know from the

50 plus years of work that you've done

working with plants as a form of

medicine that the average person on the

street doesn't know

>> how close we are to being to having uh I

I think life is a miracle as I said in

that early encounter um and we can

realize the miracle within us if we just

trust it. I've got a few guys to what I

call health empowerment. Things that you

can do yourself at home just to begin to

understand what's going on in here and

to nourish it. Uh and the plants are the

in my world the one of the most

effective ways of supporting that inner

miracle that we have uh to nourish our

health to empower us.

I I sometimes think that you know

medicine is extraordinary. I mean we now

live with cancer. you used to die with

it. Uh almost all the major illnesses of

the past have now had treatments for but

you know if you've got a chronic

condition you still left with yourself

and you're maybe not feeling so good in

yourself. I sometimes think that a lot

of medicine is a bit like uh fast food

delivery.

You know we have a meal brought in

because it's convenient but that also

desklls us.

you know, we we've stopped learning how

to cook even. You know, I remember going

to New York back in the 80s and

surprised to find that so many

apartments in New York didn't have

kitchens because everyone went out to

eat. And I thought, gosh, you're losing

all those skills of making food and

enjoying it and sitting it down over a

over a table. Um I think medicine, you

know, we use far too many antibiotics.

We use, you know, these um PPI things

called azole for our acid reflux, the

most widely prescribed drug in this

country. And I think USL also mostly

unnecessary. Uh we use a lot of uh

anti-inflammatories just because it's

sore without asking why is it sore and

why are we suppressing one of our body's

main defenses because inflammation is a

defense. So these are things that you

learn as you get into this world that a

lot of what we think are problems are

solutions waiting for support

>> because I think most people would think

that is medicine and

>> that is a food.

>> That's food.

>> Yes. Well, you're right.

>> Medicine food.

>> Yeah, you're quite right. That's

medicine. That's a food. What I'm saying

is that there's a spectrum.

And we may talk about that raspberry

because it's red. And we might talk

about the broccoli because it's green

and there's oranges uh colors there. All

of these colors actually have properties

that are actually quite valuable

properties for our circulatory health,

for our gut health, our brain health. Um

and when the more the science is looking

at it, the more amazing it's looking

these things have medicinal properties.

>> So you're saying that this is medicine

as well?

>> Yes.

Food be thy medicine is what old

hypocrates said

2,000 years ago,

>> 2 and a half thousand years ago.

>> Is it the Chinese that are particularly

big on herbal medicines?

>> Yes. Almost any other anywhere. I mean

there's there's only five countries in

the world that are not big on herbal

medicines and I'll tell you who they are

and you can see if you can draw your own

conclusions. UK is one,

>> US is the second, Canada is the third,

Australia and New Zealand. Now, can you

think of something that combi com binds

them all together? They're originally

white Englishspeaking countries.

>> If you go across to France, the channel

here, go to any pharmacy, most of the

medicine stocks on the pharmacy are

herbal. If you go to some parts of

Germany, you have to sit a herbal exam

to get your license. And further east in

the old Soviet uh block where they

couldn't afford the pharmaceutical

industry, they had homegrown primarily

plant-based medicines much more widely

going to Asia. It's the majority by far

and doctors and people working with

plants and acupuncture in China work

together without thinking about it. And

many doctors use plants in their med as

their medicines.

>> Yeah. How different, cuz I've never

really spent a significant amount of

time in China. How different is the

perception of herbal medicines there

than it is out on the streets of London?

>> They don't think twice about it. It's

what they grow up with. Um they like a

lot of people, we would say regretfully,

do seem to want to do more things like

the west does. Um so they'd adopt more

western habits and as soon as you earn a

bit of money you tend to adopt more

western lifestyles and think that the

herbal thing is for your parents and

grandparents. So there's still that

trend even in Asia um but they start

from a much broader base of experience.

>> Why why should anyone care? You know I

have ibuprofen at home. I have medicine

that I can have in the the cupboard. I

have, you know, cough syrups if I get

sick. If I get the flu, I have some flu

pills that I brought from the pharmacy.

Why should anyone care about what we're

going to talk about today? I suppose the

answer is in my practice. So, I see

patients three sessions a week. And

these are people almost most of them

have been around the block. They've had

treatments for their conditions

sometimes for many years. They're often

living with chronic complex conditions

and they're sore. They're tired. their

energyy's gone. You know, they've been

told that we can't just keep taking the

pills. You know, we've done all the

tests, there's nothing else we can do.

Time and time again, that's when the

cookie crumbles

because then you realize the ibuprofen

and the quick pills ain't doing it

anymore. There's a bigger health need

that needs somehow fixing. And that's

when they come to me as a practitioner

>> and I give them things that they can see

improving their health, their sleep,

their eating, their whatever it is

that's not their energy levels, whatever

it is that's not playing properly. We I

see myself as fine-tuning or upping the

performance. Uh I'm not when someone

comes to me and they say I've got

whatever it is, arthritis or skin

disease or whatever, uh I will politely

take all the notes down. But that's not

what I'm interested in. I'm interested

in where that came from. What is the

misbehavior? What is the poor

performance? Uh that explains why all

this happened. And often you find they

had pneumonia at the age of three or

they had glandular fever at the age of

15 or 16 and things took a turn then and

you can see the trail and often what I'm

doing is going backwards and fixing

things that weren't fixed back a long

time ago working on digestion

particularly because that's where we

work uh kidney function uh liver

function you know circulation

you know up to the brain where we're

dealing in that area. Um, so we're

looking at the performance of the body

and it's only when it doesn't behave

that you notice the need to doing it.

>> How many patients have you seen in your

career, do you think? Thousands of

patients,

>> I would say upwards of 10,000 each for

an hour or so at a time to start with.

So we get deep into the story and then

rolling on at any one time I've got 200

running you know I'm actively treating

and two couple hundred

>> and what are the range of illnesses or

conditions that those patients have had

and when you think about the most

remarkable or most interesting case

studies the most

reliable case studies that you have what

are the conditions that are at the

center of those case studies

>> have you got a medical encyclopedia

anywhere

>> I'm going I'm going to write down the

key ones.

>> No, no. I mean, it's literally I've I

don't know if I've seen everything in

the medical encyclopedia, but I've seen

most things. I mean, literally

everything comes in because mostly is

chronic anyway when they come and see

me. And it can be anything. I mean,

about a quarter of my patients are

living with cancer. So, we that's one

big group. I'm not treating the cancer.

I'm helping them to live better with

whatever it is they're dealing with.

about another

at least a third a bit bit more living

with chronic inflammatory disease,

autoimmune diseases, Crohn's, ulcerative

colitis, psoriasis,

um things that are more complicated than

you can shake a stick at. And again, you

know, we're not dealing with the end

result. We're looking at what may be

leading up to that and seeing if we can

improve underlying functions. But

literally

anything can come by.

>> Is there particular case studies of

patients that you've worked with that

stand out to you that you're most proud

of or that were Eureka moments in your

own sort of journey?

>> Most of my stories are like journeys. So

you see little steps and you you're with

somebody often for a long time and you

just see changes in the way that they um

they change over the weeks and months.

So you know to say I've got an instant

Eureka moment. I' I pulled together a

few stories just you knowing I was going

to come to them and you know just

they're a mly mix and in fact I made

notes because it was sometimes better to

remind myself of the sort of things I

did because each of these patients

will walk out with five or six or eight

different plants and the reason I put

them together is because they have a a

unique story. Um, so probably the one

with the most complex one is someone,

all the names are changed by the way,

someone called Heather who's 65 and she

had a really severe complex condition

called irrima multififor which is a

complex skin disease that's really

distressing, very upsetting.

What we know about it is is that it's

linked possibly to other infections. Um,

so we actually spotted myopplasma

pneumonia is likely implicated. She had

previously had a lot of lung damage um

in her youth. She had early pneumonia

and she was diagnosed with a chronic

obstructive pulmonary thing,

bronchiacasis as it happened. Then she

got CO badly and most of her trouble

started after that.

She also had vitamin B12 deficiency,

pericious anemia we call it, which is a

autoimmune problem. The gut lining stops

the vitamin B12 being absorbed. Those

were in her background story.

the lungs because it was the earliest

and probably the main factor were first

my focus and the second was what was

lining the stomach because most

inflammatory problems start down here.

So I ended up giving her something that

was a combination of remedies for the

gut lining and for the lungs

and

almost within a week or so the itching

of the her skin

subsided. I just happen to think that

was the reason I remember it because

it's it's unusual to get such quick

results in such a complex condition. But

it's a reminder that if you can find the

right button,

then quite big things can happen. I was

lucky to find the right button. And

progressively over the ensuing

few months, the skin problem

disappeared to the extent that she was

my dream patient. She said, "I don't

need your herbs anymore.

That to me is my biggest reward that

they can move on. They don't need help

anymore.

It sticks in your mind because it was a

hugely demanding condition that got

better without and it had been going for

a long time. It had been going three or

four years by the time she saw me. Um,

and it resolved very quickly with what

seemed to be totally irrelevant

treatments. But they there was a

rationale for them. Karen 37 panic

attacks, major anxiety problems.

Heaven knows there's a lot of that about

uh it turns out that um and when she she

was hospitalized when she was 20 with

jaundice which is a liver liver problem.

All the processing all the detox

processes are in the liver. Uh it's the

gateway from the digestion. It handles

emotions. It handles the immune system.

It It's an amazing organ. It's

self-correcting, by the way. So, it

fixes itself very quickly if you give it

the right nudge. She had jaundice. So,

immediately a little bell goes off

because and at a age when that could

mean long-term liver damage, hepatitis.

Uh she's ended up with very little

appetite. uh she feels full easily,

gains weight easily and often feeling

nauseous which is definitely a sign of

liver distress still

menstrual cycles very erratic.

She had early COVID again another big

hammer hammer blow and this that the CO

was before her main symptoms of panic

attacks set in. Uh so I use that as an

example of the way in which what goes on

up here in the brain is linked with what

goes on lower down in the gut.

You know interesting point when we were

living in caves

the best place to be was in the cave

>> cuz outside was dangerous. The only

thing that got you out hunger.

And when we look at the way in which the

cells are

the the machinery inside the cell, we

find that the mechanisms managing

anxiety are the same as the system

managing appetites and and food

processing. So the idea of linking

anxiety with metabolism is basic. This

was an ex exact answer. So the mix of

herbs that I gave her had nothing for

the anxiety at all. It was all to do uh

with metabolism. And so the included

milk thistle, barbar, uh an oriental

herb called bup plurum, artich choke

leaf and an Indian remedy called gynema

which is called sugar destroyer which

which reduces your uh hank hankering for

sweet.

First goal was to manage her sugar

cravings because that seemed to be a key

part of what she was saying. uh and to

improve her liver functions. This was

very quick and she became more settled

over several weeks and months. Then the

next thing that happened was her

menstrual cycles became clearly the

where the trouble was and she was most

likely to be distressed around the

period. So we shifted to include women's

remedies which were then included in the

mix to help manage the the hormonal e

and flow around the menstrual cycle. and

um 3 months, which is the normal time

for cycles to begin to turn, her cycles

began to steady and so did the rest of

her symptoms.

Nothing to do with anxiety, just dealing

with these core functions. So, there's a

couple of examples of, you know, how we

approach things differently.

You know, if Karen had gone to most

other practitioners, she would have had

something for her nerves.

I do really want to talk about you use

the term wi women's herbs.

>> Women's Yeah,

>> women's herbs. I do want to talk about

that and I I do also want to talk about

fertility and the menstrual cycle and

things like PCOS because I'm super

interested in that which might surprise

some people. But obviously there's women

in my life that struggle with those

things. So I do want to get on to that.

I think a second ago you pointed at the

stomach when you said that we treat down

here.

>> Yes.

>> Is that really the place to start to

understand?

>> Well, it's place to start plants cuz

that's where you that's where they go.

So tell me why what do I need to know

about

>> this region the stomach the gut?

>> Wow.

>> In order to have a sort of foundational

knowledge so that we can then start

talking about ibuprofen painkillers

fevers all these kinds of things.

>> Well very simply we think

>> our intelligence is up here.

>> You know we got a brain.

>> Yeah.

>> As soon as you swallow something until

it comes out the other end. We have no

control over what goes on down there.

decisions are being made as the food

traverses down the tube and it's a long

tube. It's about 20 feet of small

intestine that has to go around and then

like another 2 or 3 ft of large

intestine. It used to take about 18

hours to go through and we now because

we sit and drew it take longer. But all

that time intelligent decisions are

being made by the digestive system. what

to do with this, what to do with that.

And the lining of the gut is full of

sensors,

receptors we call them, that are picking

up chemical cues

and responding. So, as the food changes,

this is digested. As the bile from the

liver comes in, it's picking off these

signaling devices and switching on a

whole series of metabolic hormonal all

sorts of other functions. All controlled

major choreography going on here, you

know, without us even knowing about it.

And then just when you thought this was

wonderful, you had something called the

microbiome.

Now when I was at school and it was a

long time ago when I was doing medical

sciences, oh yeah, there was there's the

bowel flora and they help with

digestion, vitamin K, one or two other

things, you know, they might be quite

useful. Now

the microbiome runs the show and it's

it's huge. You know, we thought we knew

what the kidney did. We thought we knew

what the heart did. We thought we knew

what the brain did. We know they only do

it because they work with the

microbiome. It's it's running a show.

And the microbiome is the the billions

of bugs in our gut.

>> You've got more of those little critters

than we have of our own cells. So much

more. So they are huge. They got about

100 times as much genetic capacity as we

do.

>> We've got more bugs in our gut than

cells.

>> Yes.

>> So we're basically

>> we're we're walking gut bags. Yes.

>> We're walking bacteria.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. There's there's more bacteria than

there are us. I mean this is it's a bit

of a gobsmacking thought and you know

obviously people want no no I mean the

bugs will keep them there one of the big

issues of the day are antibiotics

which we know are becoming a serious

health issue now you know the world

health organization and others say very

seriously that antibiotic resistance you

know antimicrobial resistance as they

call it is the biggest threat we have

soon going into a hospital and getting

an operation will be a real risk Because

hospital-b born infections are

increasingly resistant to antibiotics.

You know, we we're piling them in to us,

but also to the animals that we grow. Uh

a lot of them are full of antibiotics.

And that means that the diversity

of the microbiome

is is being reduced. We've losing we

call biodiversity. There's a

biodiversity issue in here. But even

with the diminished um flora that we

have, they still pretty much run the

show. And a lot of the fruits and

vegetables, particularly the ones with

colors in them, actually feed those guys

down there and help them to perform

better. And one good reason to, as we

say, eat the rainbow, just get those

colors in. But yes, I mean, as you can

see, if I start talking about the gut,

I'm not going to stop for the next

month.

On that point of antibiotics, they the

mechanism is that they kind of kill

bacteria, right? So they're killing good

bacteria as well in the process. Often

>> they have different range depending on

the antibiotic, but yes, they will be

cutting a sway through your gut flora

for sure, some more than others. I mean

the point about antibiotics and we we

did a big project with this ironically

just before co uh when I was working

with pucker that uh tea people we put a

campaign together to find natural

approaches to managing

antibiotics or reduce the use of them.

Antibiotics are useless for anything

viral. They don't do anything for a

virus. But unfortunately people with

viral problems will still be given

antibiotics mainly by a harassed doctor

who just you know because they say give

me something doc you know for viruses

mostly you just have to wait for the

body to get rid of it but giving an

antibiotic is actually of no use at all.

Don't take my word for it. Everyone

knows this and you get NHS you know in

this country um posters saying

antibiotics are no good for viruses.

Please don't ask your doctor for them.

So for many of these things, coals and

respiratory problems for example, there

are many spices, I mean some of the

things on that plate there are

particularly good for coals and viruses

up here. And so we put that all together

in the package and said we can encourage

people not to ask the doc for an

antibiotic and use some of these home

easy free or sometimes uh treatments um

to um uh to to uh use instead of the

antibiotics.

>> When you say antibiotics are the most

urgent health issue of the moment. Um, I

want to fully understand why you think

it's so so urgent because we're going to

develop a resistance which means that

we're more susceptible to disease.

>> It's already happening and it's not me

that's saying this is these are the guys

who look after our health care for us

like the double the World Health

Organization who are really getting

close to panic about this issue uh

because already the number of people

dying from antibiotic resistance

infections is beginning to rise.

dramatically.

And new antibiotics, unfortunately,

there's less financial incentive to

develop them because they're often

handed out free by in various countries.

So, you don't get the margins back and

uh the the uh pipeline of new

antibiotics is not good. Uh so, all you

need to do is check on the World Health

Organization to get the chapter and

verse on that. It's it it's it's

actually quite frightening.

I'm on the World Health Organization

site now and um I found a definition of

antibiotic resistance. It's when

bacteria stops responding to antibiotics

and is mainly caused by overusing or

misusing antibiotics. In 2022, US

doctors gave out about 236

million anti [ __ ] it. What?

US doctors gave out 236 million

antibiotic prescriptions.

roughly seven prescriptions for every 10

people. Studies show that at least

roughly 30% of antibiotic prescriptions

in the US aren't needed, especially in

places like doctor's offices and

emergency rooms. In 2020, about 30

million antibiotic prescriptions were

given out in the UK. Children aged 0 to

14 made up 3.6 million of those. And in

2023, the World Health Organization

declared antibiotic resistance one of

the top global health threats and

estimated that it is responsible for

1.27 million global deaths in 2019 and

and contributed to almost 5 million

deaths.

>> That was 2019. I can tell you uh that

the figures have risen dramatically

since then.

So that's what people think you know and

just on a personal basis you know you go

and you need an operation

and you know that that's going to

involve exposure to hospital infections

which is one of the most serious of the

ones in the average hospital you know

it's there some of the most lethal ones

there um increasingly that is going to

be a risk

that you get something that you can't

treat. You're not saying don't take

antibiotics.

>> No, I'm saying take them carefully.

Um, use them when you need them and not

otherwise. And I'm again, it's not me

saying this is most responsible doctors

would wish that their patients wouldn't

keep asking for them.

H

so there's sort of three things that

I've I've been able to ascertain as

risks of misuse or overuse or

inappropriate use of antibiotics which

is the impact on the gut microbiome. Um

the you're contributing to the rise in

antibiotic resistance and

>> those are the main things

>> I guess even with the diseases you get

you'll be slower to heal because you're

less if you've got that resistance. That

is one of the things that we do see

particularly those who are long-term ill

you know that they lose some of the

healing capacity and that's so much of

the work I do is to aim to put some of

that right

>> and there's links to colaractyl cancers

>> yeah according

>> well that's because we're talking about

the microbiome you see so those are the

cancers in the lower gut and we know

that the microbiome is a major factor in

how well the gut is so things like

Crohn's and ulcerative colitis and

cancer of the bowel very closely linked

to the state of the microbiome.

>> Okay. So, are there alternatives on this

table or in the world of plants to

antibiotics that I should maybe also

consider um instead of just jumping

straight to antibiotics for everything

that I experience?

>> Yes, if you got a serious gut or other

infection, you may need the antibiotics.

So, let's put that straight away. But if

you've got a cold, flu, virus, repres a

viral problem, particularly the airways,

you a antibiotics will have no use at

all and b as we just said, they just add

to the risk of more because every time

you take an antibiotic, you're growing a

small population of that of of the

species of bacteria that's affected who

are resistant to that. It's natural

selection, you know. So you have a

thousand little bacteria, that's a small

amount by their terms, and you kill 90

999 of them. The one that survives will

then become two in 20 minutes and four

in 40 minutes and suddenly become a new

population. And you know, I I I duck

that bullet. And so that group of

bacteria will already be resistant. So

we're creating resistance every time we

use an antibiotic. So try let's try then

doing something else shall we? So let's

say you've got a cold.

You're feeling the cold. It's got a good

name by the way. So cold is one of the

things you feel when you've got a cold.

And that's interesting because in former

times we didn't have tests. We didn't

have laboratories. We didn't have

paramedics. We didn't have people poking

things in you. All we could know is what

it felt like. And when you've got a

cold, you often feel cold

and you feel chills and you want to wrap

up and you want hot water or you want to

have a hot bath. All that in the old

language meant that you were cold and

what you needed to do was to heat up.

Now you take

this fella. This is ginger.

It's grown widely around the world. in

its original Asian form. It was made

extinct around the time of the Romans.

So popular was it and ever since all the

ginger sense of this species uh has got

going from rootstock because it no

longer seeds itself. So this has been

the most valuable natural commodity ever

in its dried form worth more than its

weight in gold. And you know the reason

why all those Europeans ended up in Asia

running India and South the Dutch and

the Indonesia and so on is because

that's where these things came from.

That's where the spices came from. And

so we decided you know like good

capitalists to go and u control the

business. So ginger became very popular

over here because we don't have nothing

like it over here. The nearest thing we

got is horseradish which I promise you

is no substitute for this. So, how do we

use this? We got a knob of ginger here

about the size of your thumb. That's

about a good dose. You grate it, fresh

ginger into a a a mug.

>> Can you do that for me?

>> We got a great I've got a grater for

you.

>> So, um we've got here a piece of ginger

the as I say about the size of your

thumb. The thumb's a good measure

because it's your measure. So, if you're

a small person, you'll have a small

thumb, but I'm a bigger person. So, I'm

going to use And you literally, it's

making a bit of a mess here, but you're

doing this at home, you don't mind a bit

of mess. So, you're literally grating

grace nicely, doesn't it? Into a mug.

And let's say that was the whole thumb.

I don't want to take up too much time on

this. And then

the one thing that works brilliantly

with ginger is cinnamon.

Now, this is cinnamon you buy in any

shop. It comes in different forms.

There's one from China called Cassia,

which looks like one big curled bark.

>> Yeah.

>> If you look at this one, you'll see that

it's tightly wrapped with lots of little

curl, lots of little filaments in it.

That's the one you go for. It's got it's

more aromatic.

>> And you either grate that with, if you

got a spice mill, or

>> you take a teaspoon of it. Um, let's say

that's a teaspoon full. And you put that

in your

mug.

>> So that's ginger and cinnamon.

>> Ginger and cinnamon. That's it.

Then you add your hot water

that there.

>> You're going for real one, right?

>> Going for the real one.

>> Good on you. Uh, at this point, a civ is

useful.

>> Why? What for? cuz it's going to be it's

full of

>> oh bits

>> bits

and then let's say this is this is a

nice Japanese green tea mug but let's

say this is your mug and we'll pour a

little bit

in there. You see all the stuff that you

leave behind.

>> Oh yeah. Okay.

And if you don't mind sharing a mug.

>> So, what's in here? This is

>> just ginger and cinnamon.

>> Just ginger and cinnamon.

>> It's It's fairly weak.

>> Oh, it is nice, though.

>> It's nice, isn't it?

>> It is nice.

>> Now, can you feel it warming already?

>> Yes. Straight away.

>> It's really nice.

>> Yeah. Now you see what what's happening

there is that you

I mean ginger is an is an example of a

group of remedies which includes

turmeric by the way and that's other

root the other root there that's

turmeric

>> um which normally you see in a yellow

powder we might talk about that later

>> and black pepper and chilies we got a

chili here

which when you take them

you think you're burning your mouth

don't

The interesting thing is that

there's no burning.

You can actually have full madras level

uh chili and no harm will be done to

your lining because there's no burning

going on. What you're doing is you're

stimulating the pain fibers.

So you got pain fibers all the way

through the lining

>> of the mouth. When you take a hot thing

like ginger,

it's stimulating the pain fibers and

immediately there's a what we call a

reflex response which opens up the blood

vessels. It's called hyperemia. More

blood and the vessels lining these

mucosa, the ones that you just swallowed

and including a little bit up in the

nasal passages are opening up. the mucus

cells producing mucus will loosen up and

you get more runny mucus which is

helping to flush through the uh the grot

on the mucosa and the main thing you

feel is the warmth.

>> Mhm.

>> And if you're dealing with something

down here in the lungs, you'll actually

start bringing up more gunk up the

airways. It's there's a natural

escalator that we use to that the body

uses to get stuff out of the lungs that

stimulated And the mixture of cinnamon

and ginger was created I think in

heaven. I mean I think that it's such a

natural compliment and anybody can do

that.

And the point about it is that it's

warming and in the old days that was the

key thing. You would didn't matter if

you had a headache or a joint pain or a

menstrual cramp. If you wanted to put a

hot water bottle on it or heat it up,

then that was a cold problem

and putting a heating medicine would

begin to make the difference. So, you

can use the same thing if you have a

headache and you want to put a hot pack

on it. If you got a menstrual cramp and

you want to put a hot water bottle on

it, if you got a joint pain and you want

to put a a heating

linament on it, you can use the same

thing. ginger

>> just because it's heating

>> and that's simple old medicine.

>> So, so when you're experiencing

different types of pain or a cold then

cinnamon and ginger are a good I think

my

>> well only if it responds to heat. Now,

if you want to put an ice pack on, I

mean the old doctors when someone came

with a migraine would say, "Tell me,

would you prefer a hot packer or an ice

pack

>> for your migraine?" And migraine

sufferers generally split 7030

preferring heat to 70, but a third of

people with migraines actually want a

cold pack. You don't use ginger for

that. You use cooling remedies, which we

might come on to later.

>> Okay. My girlfriend, she drinks ginger

tea all the time, almost every day.

>> Yeah, she likes the heat.

>> She likes the heat.

>> Yeah,

>> she she drinks it before bed as well.

>> Can help with sleep if that's the way it

goes. I mean, everyone people are

different and there are some people who

can't take ginger at all because their

stomach objects

um or because it, you know, literally

heats them up too much. They get

stimulated by it. Um, but that's where

the individuality comes in.

>> Okay. So, any any condition where I

might be looking for heat, ginger and

cinnamon,

>> the first place to go.

>> First place to go.

>> Yeah, you could, if you wanted to be

Texmex, you can take the chilies. Um,

you know, well, you know, that's a we

think of them as a much more extreme

version of the heating. and you know

remind ourselves it was only when the

Europeans discovered Americas that

chilies became used over here. You know,

can you imagine an Italian meal without,

you know, without tomatoes and chilies?

But in the old days there were none of

those because they all came from

America. Um but yeah, chilies were the

American equivalent of ginger used for

the same purpose.

So if someone comes to you and they say,

"Simon, when shall I use chilies as a

form of medication?" What what would you

say?

>> First of all, I don't know yet.

>> And you know, if I'm dealing with

someone at a distance, you know, online

or on the phone or something, and they

say, you know, what should I try? I

said, the first thing to do is you

figure it out. You can start with herbal

teas.

You are, are you? I'm going to drop it

into the I'm going to drop it into here.

Is that a bad idea?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, go for it. But you'll

you'll you should notice that's should

be quite a hot one. Uh I will ask

suggest that they start with herbal teas

because herbal teas are a very low dose.

>> Mhm. But they'll allow you to figure out

what suits you. And you can divide, as I

hinting at earlier, old medicines were

often divided into those that were more

warming, that we would now call

stimulating circulation, and more

cooling, which we would now translate as

stimulating digestion.

And depending on which of those you

prefer would really give me a clue. So

if you were looking at warming remedies,

it could be ginger tea, it could be

fennel tea, you know, that's a warming

remedy. Or it could be cinnamon or um

any of the spices. Cardamon is one of my

favorites, by the way. Um this is I use

cardamon. This is the cardamon pods

inside a little black seeds.

Absolutely lovely taste. Do you know

him? Do you know cardamon? Have you

tried it?

>> Not really. No.

>> Oh, have a bite of that.

>> Just bite the seed.

>> Yeah, just bite into it. You don't just

just get a hint of the taste.

In many parts of the Middle East,

cardamon is one of the main flavors.

Things like coffee and so on.

>> Reminds me of um Oh, I was going to say

Indian food that I've had.

>> Yes. Used a lot in India.

>> And in China, it's a convolescent tonic.

So, they use it when people building up

their digestion after being ill for a

long time. They will often use cardamon.

It's one of my favorite remedies for

that. when people really run low, their

digestion isn't functioning. It was

appeared in one or two of these stories

I've got here because I prefer that to

most of the other spices when I need

warming, as I said before, but also

sustaining and nourishing.

So, you ask them, do you prefer teas

that are warming or would you like

something more cooling? You know, one of

the most cooling remedies that people

know about is this, which is mint.

>> That's spearmint. The best one is

peppermint.

>> It's got a lovely smell, hasn't it?

>> Yeah.

>> That has always been thought of as

cooling.

And it's a simple test. Would you prefer

ginger or peppermint tea? And already

you're beginning to narrow things down a

bit.

>> Mhm. The main cooling remedies

throughout history from you know the

very beginning and in every part of the

world you'll find them saying exactly

the same thing. The main cooling

remedies so-called are the bitters

and they taste really bitter.

>> When you say cooling you mean I feel hot

so I want something to cool me down.

>> That's right.

>> And there's certain conditions where I

will feel I'll feel hot.

>> Fever. fever fever

>> and they were often used to fever manage

fever

>> and u what h you remember when we were

young we were told if you've had a big

meal don't go swimming

>> you weren't told that

>> I can't swim so

>> there you go if that was one of the

things that you know some of us in my

generation at least were always

remembered we were told you know if you

got a big meal it's not a good idea to

go swim because you the blood's moving

into the digestion and you won't get

nearly as much as you want where you

need it in the limbs. Uh and that's you

know it is true when you are digesting a

lot of blood investment shall we call it

is going into the digestive system

because there's a lot of work needed to

break down this food turn it into

something useful it is an investment you

put a lot in get much more out but what

it means is is that um

uh digestion is all about I'm just being

a bit loose here with the language but

it's not about language it's like

bringing blood into the core

when you got a fever,

the blood's all charging around and your

body temperature is going up, which is

great because fever actually is a

defense measure. You know, when our body

temperature rises by a couple of

degrees, are the white blood cells, the

ones that are doing the leg work two or

three times as active. So, fever is what

the body uses when it needs to bring out

the big guys, bring out the fight.

There's a slight design problem. It was

almost as though you know the creator

put a you know a purposeful fault in the

system because a lot of fever comes from

the gut you know they get gut infections

you know that's one of the main places

and at that moment all the blood's going

out here and you want more of it going

in more digestion if you like. So when

you take a bitter,

when you're taking a bitter, you're

actually triggering taste buds up here.

>> A bitter

>> a bitter something that tastes bitter.

>> Is are there any plants that are bitter?

>> Yeah, a bitter plants are very common

and were highly valued in the old world.

Um, in our times, probably the most

bitter plant that people used in

European terms was something called

wormwood.

Now you may not be familiar with that

word but the French for wormwood is

vermouth

and you think of the use of a drink

before a meal.

>> The idea was it was they used to call it

an apperitif something that stimulated

your appetite.

>> So they would use bitters to improve

your appetite and a low level of

wormwood would be one of them. Dandelion

and boerdo of two other bitters which we

now have as a soft drink you know

>> particularly in America

>> and we know that bitters do switch on

the appetite so we sometimes use them

when appetite is poor

>> and you know there's all sorts of

reasons why you got a low appetite but

bitters can really help particular if

you're recovering from an illness um

they can help with um getting the dig

digestion juices flowing and the

appetite up

>> because they bring blood to the

digestive system.

>> Well, they do all sorts of things

actually. When you switch on these

receptors in the mouth, these taste

buds, they hardwired and they produce

hormones down here in the stomach that

switch on all sorts of things and

effectively increase digestive activity

which involves more blood coming into

the area. So, yes,

let's imagine you're living in some part

of, you know, the the desert area in the

Middle East. you know, you're eating a

sheep or something that hasn't seen a

refrigerator and it's a bit dodgy, you

know, and you think after a meal, you

turn to something

easily available in that part of the

world. It's a plant called cafe arabica,

we call it coffee. You ground the coffee

into a sludge at the bottom, pour a bit

of hot water, and drink that straight.

That's a bitter. So if you ever had an

espresso without sugar, that's a bitter.

>> Okay? And that was used as a digestive.

In other words, after you're eating, it

would help cope with some pretty rough

food. So bitters were always seen to be

good for your digestion and appetite.

And in fever, that actually meant

lowering your body temperature. And

that's we can see that happening. you

know it it means that you some of the

anger out here just gets

sublanimated into digestion. So that was

where the bitters got their cooling

reputation. And we can now laugh at this

is all medieval nonsense. But the point

that I keep coming back to when I'm

seeing patients, I start with that blank

sheet of paper

is because the only test of what these

do to you is to take it. And as you

notice with your ginger and cinnamon,

you don't need long.

>> You've got it there straight up. And you

know if I give a bitter to somebody uh

and you know someone is really bitter

they will know within an hour or so what

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On this point of antibiotics, um I've

heard you talk about vitamin D, vitamin

C, and zinc

>> as a potential alternative to jumping

straight from

>> not not straight alternative, but in

improving your natural resistance

particularly to viruses and such like.

>> Okay. Um then there is evidence for both

vitamin D and vitamin C but also zinc as

backups in ter in sub form supplement

form uh that do seem to add to your

resilience in the face of infections.

>> I'm quite concerned because you know I'm

a I've got dark skin and uh in the

weather that we live in here in the UK

when I am in the UK I worry that I won't

get enough vitamin D. Are these quote

unquote supplements important do you

think? What are the supplements that you

think are imperative?

>> None.

>> None.

>> Not for mo for everybody, but there are

certain situations. I think vitamin D is

a good one. And it's not just people

with dark skin that have a vitamin D

deficiency is pretty widespread in in

darker countries if we can call our

weather and that um we know where

there's not enough sun. uh vitamin D

deficiency is quite widespread and

increasingly doctors do suggest you have

vitamin D supplementation through the

winter particularly

even just having a 15-minute outdoors

with the sun will give you a fairly

hefty amount.

>> Do you supplement?

>> Not myself.

No, I don't. I I don't haven't spotted a

need. Uh but that doesn't mean that I

don't recommend supplements to people.

Well, there is a need.

and garlic. We've got garlic there that

has a antibiotic role. Well, this is

yeah garlic uh what used to be called

Russian penicellin and when after

penicellin was invented they because

some parts of the world they use garlic

instead of

penicellin which was hard to come by

originally and it was used in places

like the first world war to avoid some

of the French foot and other problems

that soldiers would get in those lousy

conditions. Garlic, when talking raw

now, is a very powerful prebiotic. In

other words, it helps the gut flora, the

good guys down here in the microbiome.

And there's evidence to show a lot of

these other ones do as well, but garlic

is particularly strong. And uh when I'm

dealing with a disrupted gut flora, a

microbiome, I will sometimes refer to

raw garlic as a treatment.

But you need to do it with a little care

because you know you don't want to lose

too many friends.

>> Why what's wrong with g is it

>> is the aroma you give out afterwards. So

you know your your friends will be very

polite but they'll rather wish you

hadn't. Um and some people find that it

does upset you know when they swallow.

But I have a little trick which I call

the garlic intensive which is when

everything is down the gut is in the

state you maybe got a lung infection or

whatever and there's a lot of need for

if you like an antibiotic type of

treatment

raw garlic what you do is and for all

sorts of reasons the Friday evening is

the best time to do this because you got

the weekend ahead of you. You take one

of those cloves.

It will first of all on that day you

haven't eaten so much. So you don't have

so much on the way. Then you take one of

these cloves, you peel it, chop it up

small pieces and swallow it with water.

You don't chew it. Just chop it up and

swallow with a little bit of water

and wait for half an hour just to make

sure that that's okay. Your stomach's

okay to go ahead. If it is, take another

clove,

chop it up, swallow it. Another half

hour later, take another clove. And if

you start at 6:00, by 10:00 in the

evening, you've got eight cloves inside

you.

>> Eight.

>> And And what's that going to do?

>> Well, that's the point. You You usually

go to bed, and I would suggest you go to

bed alone at this point because you're

not very friendly at this point because

you're oozing garlic. The aroma of

garlic is coming out of all your pores.

Incidentally, it's also coming out of

your lungs. And you know, there was an

old trick where you used to be able to,

if you had enough garlic, breathe on a

petri dish in a laboratory with various

pathogens and you could kill them just

with your breath. You know, it's the oil

of garlic is a powerful antiseptic.

But what it's doing in the lower

digestion is it seems the good guys down

there quite like it, but the bad guys,

you know, in the old days we had garlic

was, you know, against the devil and it

looks as though the bad guys down there

don't like garlic. So just doing that

over a weekend can make a big difference

to your good the good guys in the

microbiome. And if you got a low-level

gut or lung infection, that can be

really helpful. But that's, you know,

something you can do at home, but you

don't want to do that too often. In

fact, I would suggest that one garlic

intensive is probably enough for most

people.

>> So, prebiotic effects. It has an anti-

microbial properties

um which are is it good for pain? Called

it Russian penicellin. Is it?

>> Yeah. Well, it depends where the pain's

coming from. Um, but if your pain is a

cough or a chest infection, yes,

particularly particularly good for chest

infections. Some people do use it for

arthritic problems. Uh, it will depend

on what's causing the arthritis. I, you

know, and I, it's very hard for me to

say

one of these things will do it for

everybody. It won't. It will do for in

certain situations. And what we learn

when we're dealing with plants is that

you're the you're the boss. You find out

for yourself. All people like me do is

say, "Well, give this a try. This is

worth trying. This is valuable. Why

don't you give it a go?"

>> How do you think about chronic pain?

There's so many people living with a

variety of different types of chronic

pain. It affects 51.6 million people, I

believe, just in the US alone.

>> And the most common forms of chronic

pain are conditions such as arthritis or

migraines or lower back pain or other

types of nerve damage. Roughly 75 to 85%

of Americans will experience some form

of back pain during their lives. When I

think about this big array of plants

that are in front of me and other

plants, what is what is the first place

to go in your mind if you're dealing

with chronic pain?

>> It depends again where it is. But let's

take joints and back. Um you know where

you've got a joint that's causing and

it's because it's inflamed.

>> Yeah. So when you have inflammation, you

add itis to the name of the plant. So

this is arthritis because it's the

inflammation of the the joint. Um you

you have cyitis which is the bladder.

You have bronchitis if it's the lungs,

gastritis if it's the stomach. So itis

tells us there's an inflammation and

mostly with arthritis is an

inflammation.

And briefly, it's because there's junk

being dumped on the joint. The joints

have got very poor circulation by design

because, you know, this surfaces being

pressed against each other. And so the

tissue in the joint is cartilage,

gristle in in if you're eating it. Um,

which is designed to survive with very

poor circulation because you know when

you've got two things pressing in,

there's not much room for blood than

there.

So if there is metabolic waste, let's

call it junk in the system, it's more

likely to come out in these places where

there's poor circulation. Sometimes

things is a bit like a U bend under a

basin. You know, if there's any stuff in

the sink, it's going to come deposit

there. So I think of joints as a bit

like a U bend.

So the first thing that people did with

a joint pain and inflammation of the

joint was to help to clean the joint,

bring more blood into the area. And

that's what the inflammation is doing.

It's hurts like Billy Ho. But what it's

doing is bringing more blood in by brute

force to do what I was just saying. But

if you were to put on a mustard plaster

or a Cayenne plaster,

>> a Cayenne pepper plaster

>> which you simply put on on the X

outside.

>> Mhm.

>> And you can buy these inarmacies and so

on. It's called capsicum. Okay. So

capsent pig button. Um it's a standard

prescription

dressing for a pain. What it does is it

brings the blood in directly

and that means the inflammation doesn't

have to do it and the inflammation is

sore. What you're doing isn't. So by

definition you're reducing the pain

level.

>> Mhm.

>> That's an example of using plants in a

creative way which people always did.

>> They they used to do that back in the

day.

>> Oh yes. Yeah. I mean, if you go to North

America, the native populations would

regularly use Cayenne as their salve for

bad joints. In Europe, it was mostly

mustard. Um, we're talking the yellow

mustard, the one that's strong, used as

a plaster over a joint. And if you've

got arthritis in your fingers, and this

is something anyone can do with, you

know, suffering the pain here, use a

mustard bath. put your fingers into a

dilute warm solution of mustard and it's

amazing how quickly they ease up or you

could put a plaster on the hip or

whatever. Um people always did this.

>> Have you seen this work in your

practice?

>> Oh yes. And I often recommend it to

patients and they keep reporting back.

It's really makes a difference.

I think I worry about lower back pain

because I spend so long sitting down and

>> I've got low back pain too.

>> And I didn't use herbs very much for

that.

>> What did you do? Well, it was a long

story, but there was a very good uh West

African combo called OCBSA, which I saw

back in the day when I had really bad

back and I got the music got so into me

that I loosened up and began to jive and

dance around and realize that my back

had gone and it stayed gone for decades.

It's just unlocked a knot. So, that

wasn't any herb. That wasn't any plant.

>> Dancing. dancing. I mean, letting the

music get into you.

>> What's the difference?

>> Well, you know, when you feel the music

running through you, you know, you're

just moving in with the beat, you know,

>> that loosens up a lot of knots. You

know, I don't just do plants. I, you

know, I talk about breathing. I talk

about exercises that you can do for

yourself. And uh sometimes when you got

a joint pain, it's all about it's locked

and you can find ways of

loosening

that joint.

>> Ibuprofen.

>> Yes,

>> people reach for this all the time. I

mean, I was looking at some of the

search trend data for ibuprofen and it

is absolutely exploding.

>> Yes.

>> Um that's the the search graph

ibuprofen. Yeah.

>> Um

>> it is but is one of the most widely used

drugs in this country. M um it's

obviously because it works and it's

based on um a plant substance called

salic salicylic acid um which gave us

aspirin

and we still use the basic molecule to

create the what we call nonsteroidal

anti-inflammatory drugs or nsaides and

ibuprofen is one of the most widely used

of those and basically they cut the

inflammatory

process

just cut it and so the inflammation just

diminishes which is good right

>> well if it gets rid of the pain it is

but there's a always a follow up

question why was that inflammation

necessary because inflammation is a

defense it's one of my most powerful

defenses we have in the body

and whenever someone is saying I'm on I

need ibuprofen My next question is what

can we do to reduce the need for the

inflammation? So when I was talking

about the arthritis I was saying this

junk shall we say being dumped on the

joint can we help to relieve that? Can

we go upstream and reduce some of the

metabolic strain? You know people eat

sometimes the wrong food and sometimes

increases arthritis. Uh you can improve

your arthritis by have switching to more

plants very often. Um but there are

other things that we can give that seem

to help reduce some of those pressures.

But the pain might be somewhere else. It

might be linked to a full-blown disease,

you know, and in that case, you know,

using anti-inflammatories is the only

thing you can do. But if there is a way

in which we can help reduce the need for

that inflammation in the first place, I

would much prefer to do that than just

suppress a natural defense. We we tend

to think of inflammation as the enemy.

>> We do. And I think we're wrong.

>> We think of it as the disease itself.

>> We are wrong. It's the consequence of a

problem. And it's inflammation itself is

a healthy response. It's when we bring

out, you know, I sometimes use military

language here. And there's a bunch of

white blood cells that I liken to

Marines. You know, these these are guys

who when they're working well, they just

go in and do the job. They don't sort of

figure it out. They don't ask questions.

They just go and do the job. We got a

whole bunch of white blood cells that

are bit like that. They just we call

neutrfils. There's various others of

that group and they just go in and whack

them.

Inflammation is bringing those guys out

faster and harder. So, we're bringing in

more of the marines if you like to

finish the job. What's wrong with that?

You know, that's what we want to do. It

happens to be sore.

Then

if they don't do the job and the junk or

the problem keeps piling in, then the

marines become the problem and then we

use the ibuprofen to shut them up. But

as I said, there's always a question,

you know, why are we what's what's the

consequence of stopping this internal

cleansing process that uh is so

important. So inflammation is not the

enemy. Inflammation is the defense

measure that can sometimes overstay its

welcome. I had an injury in my ankle a

couple of couple of months back because

I I pulled some some of the ligaments

down there and my ankle was swelled up

and I was getting conflicting

information from people about the

inflammation because I had this big

football game coming up this for this

charity match called soccerate at Old

Trafford and I had one of my physios

telling me to apply the ice thing and

take anti-inflammatories and I had

another one telling me something else

about the inflammation that actually I

didn't want to combat the inflammation

because it was doing its job and so I

it's quite difficult to navigate whether

one should let inflammation stay or if I

should be taking anti-inflammatories or

ibuprofen. Um

>> well if you got a match to you sometimes

need something just to get you match fit

or match acceptable. Um but if it's a

short-term we call it acute inflammation

then overwhelmingly the advice is don't

suppress it because in the short term

you know we get a cut get a bit of dirt

it gets swollen maybe a bit of pus and

so on and after a while it sorts itself

out that's this miracle I called talked

about earlier the body heals itself all

the time that's inflammation doing its

job properly cleaning out the marines go

in clear all the stuff out back to their

barracks

back to normal. That's great. It's only

if, as I said, the junk keeps piling in

and the job doesn't get finished and we

call that chronic inflammation.

That's when you sometimes need a bit of

help.

>> And chronic inflammation is often caused

by something further upstream, right?

>> So, you try and think about what's

causing it upstream.

>> Exactly. So,

>> and what tends to be the perpetrator

upstream?

The gut is where most of these things

begin because when you think about it,

that's where we take most foreign

material. Almost all of it has to be

dealt with by the gut. So that's where

most of our immune system is. You know,

we talk about the immune system, but you

know, the majority of the immune system

is a few millimeters away from the

lining of the gut because that's where

the action is. That's where all the

foreign stuff is. So if there's a

disruption there, it's that's the first

place to begin and because it's usually

the best place to begin. Uh and if we

add the what we talked about the

microbiome as another big factor, then

there's plenty to work be done with down

there. So if it's a chronic

inflammation, I will spend a lot of time

looking at what might be going on down

there.

>> And what's the typical suggestion if it

is a a gut related problem? Well, the

first thing is to do is to u get the

best food you can down there, which is

mostly plant-based. Um, I mean, there

are exceptions to that. Uh, but in if

we're looking at restoring your good

health down here, the gut does seem to

like plants at this point. Um, so we

talk about, you know, having a wide

range of plants. you know the the

current uh advice from one or two people

is that you would aim to have 30

different types of plant per week you

know just to get the diversity because

we don't know which one you need so why

don't give as much difference as you can

and you know there

you know people think you can't afford

to eat healthily all I would suggest is

that you go and travel to somewhere like

India or anywhere in Asia where they eat

pretty much a lot of plants, mostly

plants for pennies. You know, you can

make a healthy meal by if you know how

to cook by just mixing some of these

simple the dahs and the the root

vegetables and the other vegetables

easily mixed together. A few spices in

there absolutely delicious and your gut

and your microbiome will be jumping with

glee.

>> You talk about eating your rainbow.

>> Yes. What does that mean?

>> Means as many colors as you can fit in.

Um, literally because each color is

cause is produced by a constituent of

plants. Many of them we call polyphenols

which we know have a range of effects on

all sorts of

mainly on the microbiome again because

they're all in different ways prebiotic.

They all help good guys prosper down

there. But then after the microbiome is

processed them, which is interesting,

the microbiome is is critical for

processing polyphenols,

they don't get absorbed unless the

microbiome breaks them up already. So

the benefits of the colors depend on the

good guys down here. M

>> when they get into the blood they start

doing all sorts of wonderful things to

the lining of the blood vessels for

example up into the brain where we got a

what we call bloodb brain barrier which

is actually a very exciting interface.

The polyphenols the colors all have

wellestablished mechanisms that improve

the health all around the body. So

simple. If you got a child who used to

say, "Eat your greens." We now say, "Eat

your rainbow. The more different colors,

the better."

>> I wonder if that's why they put so many

artificial dyes in junk food.

>> Well, I wish they wouldn't

>> to try and trick our brains into

thinking it's I don't know.

>> No, there's nothing quite like the

original.

>> In terms of fruit,

>> what are your favorite fruits to sort of

recommend people to eat and why?

probably the the if you wanted to have a

you know a top list the darker the color

the better. So, we talk about purples

and I'm pleased to see that uh your team

has found a purple carrot there

and we remind ourselves that most

vegetables were purple once upon a time.

If you think of maze, you know, in the

the sweet corn and the maze that you

grow in the Americas, that mostly was

originally purple and we bred the purple

out because it didn't look so

appetizing. And we're probably purple

deficient.

Uh I think we could do with more purple

in our lives because the

purple and blue color is a something

called anthocyanins. These are types of

polyphenol and they're particularly

powerful particularly with the blood

supply. And we're talking about things

like eyesight and brain health and

circulatory health, blood pressure

control and all those sort of things can

be improved just by having more purple

in our lives. So we got beetroot.

That'll do. We got the berries. Uh, red

grapes are probably more We got the

Yeah, we got the red grapes here. That's

got more of these than the yellow that

the grapes do. Um, so I would start with

the reds and purples.

>> You said you think we're purple

deficient.

>> Yeah. I mean, just, you know, think of

something interesting to say, but it's

probably something in there.

And in terms of vegetables, what are

your favorite go-to vegetables that that

you'd recommend I eat?

>> Uh, start with the roots. The root

vegetables, the carrots, the beetroots,

the parsnips,

the the various other root vegetables

out there, not all of which are people's

favorites, but they have uh fiber uh

sort of starch in them which is

particularly prebiotic

and some of the most powerful prebiotics

are the root vegetables. So those are

definitely worth having the greens

obviously and broccoli and interestingly

I found a purple one uh which are easily

enough to get. So you know you can get

the purple or the green you know

obviously there's a value in the in the

purple there. Uh but any broccoli, any

of the cabbage family is full of all

sorts of other ingredients uh that have

their own benefits in all sorts of ways,

metabolism, gut, hormonal, blood supply.

So greens, roots, and the big one in

most people's lives are the grains. you

know, wheat for example, but cereals,

lentils, dahl, uh, peas and beans, uh,