i wasn't experienced enough i was too

young you're just branded thick

nick jones the founder and ceo of soho

house with an empire of private clubs

around the world it's the most see and

be seen type of place not everyone gets

it

your upbringing is particularly

compelling to me because you were

somewhat counted out i'm hugely dyslexic

people didn't understand that you were

just branded thick

wow there was not much choice for me

you've created a business which brings a

lot of people joy that first soho house

on greek street why did it work

i wanted to prove that hospitality could

be done differently i can't think of a

time when i was thinking about making an

aspirational brand i've always been

obsessed about the member and that was

always my number one thing they've

created that

if you don't make mistakes you're not

pushing yourself you're not taking

yourself out of your comfort zone maybe

i was trying to prove to my family that

i i could do this and i think that's an

invaluable lesson

at what point does that desire to prove

something need to be contained because

it might come at the expense of like

life balance

um

a very good question and i think

so without further ado i'm stephen

bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo

i hope nobody's listening but if you are

then please keep this to yourself

[Music]

nick

thank you for being here um i have to

say i'm a big fan of the the business

you've created and the i know you don't

like the word but the brand you've built

um for many many reasons that i'm

excited to get into maybe because i'm a

marketeer but maybe also just because

i'm a customer someone and someone that

loves the the soho house um brand but

where i wanted to start with you is

where i always start and your your um

your sort of origin story your

upbringing is particularly compelling to

me because

um

by many accounts

even your own you were somewhat counted

out

is that true

well my childhood was

i don't think i'd say i was counted out

i was

you know

in a nice middle class family where i

had two older brothers and a sister

younger sister mum and dad

but

my two older brothers um were you know

they were the sort of stars they were

they were great at school they were good

at sport and i was a bit not so good at

sport and not so good at school and

it was a sort of different sort of um

sort of childhood that

i suppose that they had and um

yeah i think it probably put me in good

stead but at the time it was probably

quite tricky when you say not so good at

school what do you mean specifically

we're just really bad at exams yeah i'm

i'm hugely dyslexic and um so i find

spelling really difficult i find

pronunciation difficult i find

um

you know all sorts of things difficult

at school i mean i've since learned that

dyslexia is the greatest thing to have

and but at school it isn't but i was

lucky enough

that my mum was all over it and it was

discovered that i was dyslexic at the

age of 12 which is very young for a lot

of people are still discovering

you know contemporaries of mine are

still discovering a dyslexic right now

in

the age i am which is 58. so

i

i was i was lucky and i got support and

i

sort of got through school by

weird things like they they'd give you

extra hours on your exam

but i didn't need that i i i only needed

half the amount of time anyway to fill

up the paper because i didn't have

enough information so

so to get another hour was just another

hour just fiddling around with your

pencil so

um yeah the perception towards dyslexia

today is

is it's quite a common thing and people

understand it a bit better but back then

i'm assuming people didn't really

understand what it was or there was a

stick was there more of a stigma yeah i

think so you're just branded thick

and you know because if you couldn't

read or you couldn't um write proper i

mean my handwriting is

still very not i try and avoid

handwriting of every possibility so it's

still

um really bad and i've i think yes

people because people didn't understand

it there but people understand it now

and people talk about it and

they should talk about it and it's

to me it's you know if you have dyslexia

you look at things very differently

because you have to look at things

differently

you have to simplify things and

by simplifying things i think that gives

you

a different perspective on things when i

say counter that i mean more in the

sense of um you didn't believe that you

would be a success when you were older

because of the

because especially when you're at that

young age you assume that those that are

getting the the best grades and spell

the best and do math the best are going

to be rich and successful and then

there's us as everyone else

so at that young age you didn't see you

didn't envisage you would be a

quote-unquote success

i it didn't i didn't think either way i

was just sort of thinking of just

getting through school and and and i

wasn't really planning that if i was

going to be a success or not a success

and

i i think that's a interesting

um

how you define success um and i don't

think success is just been successful

you know running a business or creating

a business i think it's it touches all

sorts of things

was there um

when i was reading about your parents

dinner parties that seemed to be the

first

inspiration for what you would later do

in hospitality and restaurants and

creating experiences for others was that

the first sort of spark of inspiration

for you yeah um i i i was

while my brothers were on the sports

field i

weirdly like doing the supermarket shop

i with my mum you know i found

supermarkets fascinating i found food

fascinating i then found the whole

preparation of how to give people a good

time

you know fascinating and

you know i loved watching

how you how you could create an

environment where people had a laugh and

fun

and was that what your parents were

doing well yeah they i'm not all the

time i mean occasionally they did it but

um

but when they did do it it was you know

i'd love to be

part of them trying to create a fun

evening and i think that's probably

where i suddenly realized that you know

hospitality was the route for me um

because i you know we're going back a

long long time um you know this was you

know i'm 58 now and i was sort of 13 at

the time and

and i was i used to

you know go to the local sports club and

work behind the bar you know as i would

clean the glasses and weirdly i enjoyed

that i enjoyed the interaction with

people i enjoyed seeing people just have

a have a nice time and and back then

people were not going into hospitality i

mean it was really at the bottom of a

ladder of of industries that people went

into so

i thought that was an opportunity

it's funny because i've sat here with

them jimmy carr and lots of comedians

and when i hear about their sort of ins

and inspiration for becoming a comedian

it tends to root back to them being

younger and it being the thing that they

would see create the most joy in their

home

so

in the case of jimmy carr and russell

and russell howard and a few of the

other comedians i've sat with they tell

me the story about like the thing that

would make my parents the happiest was

when i would tell jokes so that was this

sort of psychological reinforcement that

led me to be a joke teller for the rest

of my life and when i was reading about

those those dinner parties that your

parents had i was i was and also

confounded by the fact that you you know

you said in your own words um you didn't

feel like there was a lot of

conventional opera um avenues available

to you because of your dyslexia

that that was the

the combination of factors that caused

you to

well and and i really had to i mean when

i was at school i because i wasn't good

at getting exams i had to rule

university out i had to

there was there was not much choice for

me you know there was a person with very

few o levels as as they were called then

and i think i got an e in a level and i

scraped through on economics i think and

you know with that there there was

there was really

not a lot of choice and you know my

careers master at school sort of said i

think it's catering nick you know so

when my when my chris master said that

i've i i sort of thought and also the

fact that i thought there was real

opportunity in this and

my my dad owned a small um insurance

broking company and

my brothers went into work there and

i think my dad was keen for me to go and

work there but i i didn't find insurance

very exciting

i still don't

and i didn't find

that world of working in the city and

insurance and being an insurance broker

interesting at all so

i i did have that as an opportunity but

i

really felt i wanted to try hospitality

and catering as you as you started your

journey into hospitality and catering

did you start to at any point figure out

that you were you had some kind of area

of brilliance there was something you

were good at compared to others no i

remember clearly the first no i did the

answer to that was is definitely no um i

my my my first day i i worked for trust

house forte i was a management trainee

and it was a five-year course and i i

applied to the savoy management um

training course to start with and

they

i i remember it to this day the

interview i had um and i just froze i

couldn't speak i was so nervous i i

absolutely froze and because i was a

pretty shy kid and

you know i i was shy at 17 when i was

going through these interviews and i

just was it i just got stage fright i

just couldn't my mouth no words came out

of my mouth

and i didn't get into the savoy

management course but then i applied for

trust house forte and luckily when i

went for the interview i was able to

talk and i got onto a

a five-year course and my

first part of the course was a year in

the kitchens and it was at st george's

hotel in langham place which is just

here in london

off oxford street and

i arrived and the chef looked me up and

down

and he he he he he called me a nickname

which i'm not gonna say

it began with a c and and um he threw a

sack of potatoes at me which landed in

my belly and he said peel them and so i

went off to the viera where you peeled

the potatoes and i hadn't really ever

used a knife before and the first one

the first potato i cut my my my my

finger and i thought oh god how do i

hide the high disk and the water i was

putting the potatoes in was getting

redder and redder and redder and i and i

thought oh no this is my first day and

the nickname

stuck and i

i was really sort of learning on the job

which i think is a really great way to

learn anything and i kept making

mistakes but i ca i was determined to to

sort of fit in to the kitchen because it

was an environment you know because i

came from this sort of cotton wool

um middle class background and then

going into the kitchen into the early

80s where where you know if

they it was long hours and and and they

they you know someone who comes in with

a slightly posh accent and you know they

very very very very it was it but it was

a it was a good moment it was a good

moment for me

was it um

what was it about that

sounds pretty horrific sound and i've

having worked in the kitchen my mum had

a restaurant at a very young age i

started working there at seven super

high stressful people always complaining

it's hot in there

um that and i mean people weren't

throwing things at me and calling me the

c word but it wasn't it was really

unpleasant so i'm wondering what in that

context like

despite of all of that tickled your

fancy do you know what it was it was

i was coming out my shyness i was

learning how to get on with people and

you know i was i went to a private

school i was surrounded by people who

went to private school which is seven

percent of the population and

by going into the the the the um kitchen

you you really learnt to really get on

with everyone and

and i think that's an invaluable lesson

and i

really became friendly with a lot of the

chefs and would go out with them at

night and

i just enjoyed it and even though it was

hard i just enjoyed the environment i

enjoyed creating food i enjoyed the buzz

i enjoyed i didn't mind the heat i

didn't mind the fact that it was it was

it was long hours i just enjoyed it if i

had spoken to maybe your colleague or

someone that was maybe above you in a

line manager at that time and said what

isn't it good at what would they have

said to me

i i'd like to think

um not peeling potatoes or making

porridge but

you know getting on with people and

being part of a team and and getting

stuck in

you said earlier that dyslexia was um

is actually a great gift

can you explain why um why you've now

come to believe that that is a real sort

of superpower for you

well

i i i wouldn't say it's a superpower but

i i i talk a lot about dyslexic because

i really want people to feel that if

they have if they get the tests and

they're dyslexic i don't want them to

ever feel bad i want them to feel good

and go well this is a huge opportunity

because i think when you look at things

differently and the reason one thing

being dyslexic i have to simplify

everything all the time i have to i have

to i want something on one sheet of

paper i don't want it on four sheets of

paper i want i i want everything to be

scaled down and simplified and i think

we live in a world where everyone's over

complicating things always and and you

know and it doesn't matter what area of

the business i work in now whether it's

the designers or the chefs or tech

people you know

it's all over complicated and i spend a

lot of my time just editing down and and

and simplifying it and i think dyslexic

being dyslexic has made me do that you

know because it's the easy route because

complication panics me and confuses me

so i spend a lot of time simplifying and

i think when you do simplify things

people understand it they get it

they like it

yeah so true someone once said to me

that phrase i always forget which is um

if

someone's ability to simplify something

also correlates their ability to truly

understand it and typically when you

meet these like salesmen

that are um trying to blag you in some

way they purposefully overcomplicate

something and sometimes they don't

actually understand what they're saying

but distilling it to simplicity gets it

closer to truth and it's it's also a

sign that the person communicating it

really truly understands the essence of

the idea or the concept

you by 22 you started your own

restaurant chain

well correct i went around lots of

departments within trust house 48 from

front desk to bar to

to

to housekeeping i was a housekeeper at

the you know clean the rooms at the

westbury hotel in conduit street

i i was a barman at brown's hotel in

albemarle street um

and yeah i remember clearly um you know

serving being the barman and i remember

making cocktails for george bess that

was that was a highlight of he was such

a nice guy and

and and i suppose at that time i always

thought the determination was to open

something to to open my own restaurant

this is you know i want to learn this

and then i ended up doing marketing at

trust house forte and then i was

marketing manager at grover the house in

in part lane and it wasn't because i was

brilliant at it it was you know i was

cheap you know

i just was i was i didn't just cost a

lot of money and they could that's what

they were looking for at that precise

moment and but i always when i was

working there i was always working on a

plan to to

you know not work for trust house forte

which was a big

big hotel company and i was thinking you

know i want to get out of this at some

stage i don't want to keep going on the

ladder when you know you keep getting

put you hopefully i would have kept

being promoted into other jobs but and

then it would have been too difficult to

leave so i want to go when i'm still

relatively at the bottom and then i i

went and tried working in fast food

restaurants or sort of

casual restaurants so i went to work to

maxwell's and covent garden as a night

manager i then i then went

to work at pasta mania as a sort of

junior manager and then during that time

i was building my plan to open my first

restaurant which was called over the top

and that opened in

1988 and it was

you know

it was i was too young i wasn't

experienced enough um

it was it was terrible

the design which is something i'm

obsessed with now and i love design you

know and i that was my first design

outing and it really was

terrible um the food was you know really

bad you know my friends had to come

you know and that that showed

i really knew who my friends were

because they would come and support me

in the restaurant but it was uh it was

it was it was it was a a good experience

of getting something really wrong

it's not cheap to open a restaurant how

did you how did you fund that well i i

my my dad put a bit of money in family

friends put a bit of money in and i got

the bank to put some money in um so i

was lucky you know i was given that

chance to be able to open my first

restaurant um

and it's something you know you know we

we do a lot now i i love people

doing that when anyone comes to me and

wants to be an entrepreneur and start

something up i really make time to

steven and help them and you know i was

lucky i was given an opportunity um

and

yeah i learned a lot

that i guess

would increase the pressure if you've

got family betting on you

yeah i i think

i never they never made me feel like

that um you know my dad

you know um

i think he was proud that i was trying

to do something i was trying to do

something on my own because he had his

own small business

um but he never made me feel like that

and the other shareholders you know i

think in their head they

when they first came and tried the

restaurant they sort of probably knew

that it wasn't gonna lead anywhere but

actually you know

the the company is still the same

company as it is today it's a it never

went it never it never went bust we we

we we we hang on in there and um

you know eventually open cafe om in 92

um with which was really all the

experience of getting over top so wrong

and let me explain what over top was it

was it was

it you either chose a burger a piece of

chicken a bit lamb or a steak and over

the top of it you could choose one of 10

sauces

the sources were terrible and and and it

was just

it was just

bad

and um

you know uh it it it just sort of taught

me

you know how to manage a business with

little cash and with no cash

how to pay the staff every week how to

use initiatives to try and get more

customers in and i think it taught me

at a very early age you know marketing

restaurants is not the way to solve a

restaurant you just have to make the

restaurant

good because the customer is so clever

they know what good is and they know

what bad is and it taught me that very

early on there was no way that you could

you don't you can't fool a customer they

they they they know and you could walk

into over top and you could sort of feel

you know you could sense that it wasn't

wasn't wasn't wasn't good enough but

what i learned at that time was

it it's

sort of

it

i didn't feel it was a failure i just

thought it was i was on a a journey of

learning and i

really

even now encourage all our people that

making a mistake is not a problem you

know if you don't make mistakes you're

not pushing yourself you're not trying

you're not you're not you're not taking

yourself out of your comfort zone and

so

you know i really encourage people to

think that you know

failure is not what it sounds like you

know it's okay it's just part of the

journey

what did what did that process teach you

about feedback i asked that because in

my first business i was i had this was a

tech business and i was very romantic

about this hypothesis about the way that

i thought my customers would behave and

about the solution that i thought that

they would care about and i spent too

long not listening to their feedback and

ultimately that

was pretty fatal and i just wish earlier

i'd been less romantic and

stubborn almost about what i thought the

customer would want and and listen but

i'm wondering what that first failure

taught you about the importance of what

feedback you listen to and how you

listen to it well i think feedback's key

um

and

people being honest

it's funny being been a brit people are

funny about complaining aren't they

they're

in restaurants they

they think it will offend you they they

think well i'm not gonna i can't

complain to nick about i had a bad meal

last night because he he might be your

man might upset him but to me

you know you can only get better by

getting really honest feedback and

i'm lucky now because i have members who

all have my email address and and and

you know

they if they're not happy they they

email me so i think listening to

feedback is super super important did

you listen to it and over the top

well i could just see it because there

wasn't many people to give feedback to

[Laughter]

i wish there was more customers in there

giving me feedback um but you you know

people did give feedback and and but i

didn't have the tools to be able to get

it better i didn't know you know you saw

i started going down a

sort of yeah

because

we kept running out of money so you know

you kept cutting cutting the

you know the team down so it just wasn't

you know

at the end it was just

me in the kitchen serving and

we even set up a delivery service to try

and try and try and um

uh

boost our sales but that didn't work

i was so um really inspired by you

saying that the customer is smart

and also you alluded to the fact that

the best marketing is word of mouth

yeah absolutely

that that really is at the heart of what

you even do today is is i believe in the

customers yeah i i'm

very lucky that we have fantastic

members who

are loyal and

and

you know they they you know i i if

anyone says that we've done okay or i've

done okay it's for thanks to our members

and

um you know our members of the people

who pushed me from

doing so house you know the originals

our house on greek street where yeah it

worked there were hairy moments you know

when i thought it really wasn't going to

work um and you know it would go quiet

or it would go you know i remember the

first year we opened in in may suddenly

conquered we'd opened in january i

thought oh god that i thought it would

last a bit longer than this and you know

member turned around to me and said well

we're all down at the cam film festival

you know that's where your members are

so i suddenly thought well next year

i'm going to go down and create a pop-up

down there and this was

pre-pop-ups you know this was in 96 and

so we rented a boat um

in the harbour

and

i remember

in fact i remember clearly because there

was there was a lady who still works for

us to this day veronique and

her and i had to fill up this lorry full

of stuff in london to drive down to i

didn't drive the lorry because i

couldn't drive a lawyer but to go down

to the south of france can and we opened

this boat and it was like a temporary

club for the ten days of the cam film

festival and members

you know if they weren't in london they

could come to the club in in the

the boat in the harbour and that

we did that for

lots of years and it was i think our

members really enjoyed that and that

sort of taught me again

where wherever the member was going go

so you know because if i hadn't you know

i was

i didn't understand the film business or

the media business i was in

catering hospitality so i i was i was

sort of new to this and

you know when i first first created the

first ever committee at sarah house you

know i was really knocking on doors and

and phoning people cold calling then

saying do you mind and and you had to

sort of explain what you were trying to

do to get them to come on the committee

and that was where our first 500 members

came from and

and i think there i've always just

listened to the member you know they

they kept saying wouldn't it it's great

this one why didn't you do one in the

country and i go oh let's do one in the

country then so off i go i phone saviles

up and i say any any hotels for sale i

didn't have any money but i thought well

i'm going to go on that route and see

how i could i could um

get get get somewhere in the country and

i

remember stumbling across babington

house and

and i remember it was it was on the

market for um

you know a million million and a half

pounds um this was back in yeah a long

time ago and

and um

i remember driving up the drive and as

soon as you have drive out the drive at

babington you sort of fall in love of a

place and i fell in love with a place

and i thought oh my god how how how am i

gonna get planning permission to turn

this into a hotel and how am i going to

have enough money to buy it

i had

just a small amount of money just to put

the deposit down

and

luckily

the people who were selling it

um

they

they um they said well we want to stay

here for the summer we you know we want

to we want to exchange and then we will

complete in nine months time i thought

yes

you know and then it gave me nine months

um

um to um

to find the money and get the planning

permission and raise the money with our

members to to

pay for the completion

and also to pay for the refurbishment

and

i i sort of just remember even before we

exchanged

the agent phoned me up and said you know

um a higher off has gone in so i was

sort of being gazumped and i thought

well i don't have the money anyway so i

can put another couple hundred grand on

it because

and so i i increased my offer i i got

babington house and

um

you know i was able to raise the money

we and we raised the money through our

members you know

lots of members put sort of

five grand in

um and that's how i was able to get the

money to open babington house so it was

a it was a

led by our members sort of

verb the members helped invest in it you

know they luckily have all got their

money back plus plus and

um

you know then that was the second

thing we opened that first sega house on

greek street

why did it work

you know i was

running the restaurant downstairs cafe

bowen that was my survival cafe bowen

was you know it was the same company as

over the top it was it was it was me

doing everything totally different to

what over the top was so the food was

edible and nice

the service was good the atmosphere you

know and if i was in there last night

and it was you know it made me very

happy because it was packed and it was

fun and

when the building came up

available above cafe berm which is on

greek street in london

i

the landlord pulled me up um

and they said well do you fancy taking

the space above

and i go well what on earth for you know

there was no plan to do a private

members club my plan was

just to survive and make cafe bowen work

after

four years of attempting over the top

and i still do this today i always look

at everything i when people phone me and

say there's an idea i was gonna have a

look and so i said okay well go and have

a look so i wandered around the offices

and it was a small door you know um

on on greek street forty creek street

and

and i thought hmm

and i hadn't been to a private members

club you know i wasn't i wasn't part of

a groucho club i wasn't i wasn't i

wasn't part of that

that that was only the groucho club all

there were all those clubs down in palm

oil i wasn't part of that maybe that's a

good thing yes and i and i i looked

random oh god this is like a home away

from home and and

and

you know god this is this could work how

could i

you know this this this is an idea but i

didn't have any money

so um again and um

i went to see um

my landlord which is paul raymond um and

i went to see him and he said well you

do want to take it i said well yeah i'd

love to take it but what would you

invest because

the family investment and

from over the top they had had totally

enough explain they

they were out you know the banks were

trying to pull out of you know trying to

get their loan back it was

that bit of it was

you know just

it was it was it was that bit of the

family help was done finished

and

so

i thought

well how am i going to raise the money

for this because it's going to be

separate i'm going to have to do this

separately to what cafe bow m is

and so i went to see paul raymond he

said i'm not investing i didn't invest

in other people's businesses and then it

was when i was leaving he said well what

happens if i

put the money in but just added it to

your rent so you ended up with a higher

rent you know a percentage of

the money he put in

was added to my rent and

i thought well to do the fit out to do

fit

um i thought okay well that sounds like

it can work so i set up sewer house it

was it was simple to come up with a name

it was a house in soho the logo was

pretty simple it was just actually it

was it was so simple it was free

buildings three floors

um

and

and

i and but i owned a hundred percent of

it

because

the cafe bowman a lot you know my my

family didn't want anything to do with

it and and the other investors and i

thought well you know when so house

works i'm going to transfer everything

back to the you know the same

percentages as it was as

when it was over the top so i merged the

two companies so

i didn't want um

i didn't want to be a success on one

hand in on on soho and and they were

suffering on cafe bowm and over top so

we merged it all together and

and we

found the members and and and

you know a lot of the people

who opened sewer house in 95

still are part of sower house to work um

you know

a guy

pierre who was a server in

in in um

the blue dining room the the blue room

in the in the restaurant now runs north

america for us and

um

marcus anderson who

it runs our membership part of our

membership team who was a server in one

of the dining rooms so

the guy marcus barwell was a barman in

the circle bar now he's managing

director of south house design so

it's lovely seeing you know people who

are right there at the beginning still

be part of a company now and

it

it but it was

it was a journey as well it was we were

moving into this new area of membership

understanding membership understanding

looking after people and and just

listening to your members because i'm

sort of going back to your original sort

of feedback question so the feedback and

which comes from our members has sort of

really helped us where we are today was

cafe bowen successful when you embarked

on the house journey upstairs

yes

but it was having to be on top of the

disaster of sower house so it was a

quite a lot of there was a lot of sort

of um it was the same company and and so

yes it worked cafe berm worked it gave

me

the confidence to do something else it

it worked because

um

it

it you know it was 30 years ago so and

there weren't many places i don't think

there were many places which

were open to eight in the morning and

closed at three in the morning and you

could go in there and eat whatever you

wanted or just have a coffee or just

have a drink

the kitchen was always open you could

you know drink chunks of beer or you

could have a steak freak or

and we had jazz in the afternoons it was

really

creating it it sort of really created a

real regular following within soho and

it was

the turning point really of the disaster

of overdue

i had a few words to say about one of my

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people have been asking for a

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back to the podcast so when you look

back then on that so house a lot of

people i'm sure started very similar

style businesses around the time i'm

trying to figure out why sir house went

on to become what it is today what were

the the factors that

in your view you talked about customer

feedback shaping everything but well i

would i would give that accolade to our

members

i would i would say it was the members

who pushed me

and and

yeah when they when we opened in new

york you know

because we i think we'd open the

electorate house with we're about three

then and and someone said well you

should open in new york i'd love this

i'll have a oh yes maybe so

off i go to new york and and and

determined to open a sewer house in new

york first of all look in the re

district of soho

and

couldn't find something going came close

it was difficult learning permitting it

was it was just

difficult and

i remember

we found the warehouse it was an old

electrical warehouse and meat packing

and meat packing

was a very different place to what it is

now

um

it was run down it was you know it was

it was full of sort of

it was full of

really interesting life and and

i remember we found this this this

this warehouse and i thought okay i'm

gonna get get the warehouse and again we

had to raise money to do it so

it was a question of

trying to um how do you get raise money

in new york because we we you know

it was it was a bad time in the uk it

was so i think it might have been a

recession going on so the banks were

you're not gonna we're not lending you

money in new york so i thought okay well

i gotta start raising money again from

our members and from people in new york

to put money into the seller house in

new york

and

um i i

it was everything was nerve-wracking you

know

the week

i was flying out there to try and get

the permit to

be able to allow to open a club in the

in a warehouse

was 9 11. so i arrived on

i think it was a monday evening

and i was nervous because i it was this

big

big meeting on the thursday where in in

front of a local community board to see

whether we'd get permission to be able

to

open up a club and have a license in

this premises

and i was having breakfast

um

on the tuesday morning then the 9 11. um

and i was having a bold egg i remember

it and as i was hitting my boiled egg i

heard this big bang

and i thought what is that so i ran out

on the street and i looked up and i

could see

one of the twin towers with

smoke coming out of it and

i asked um

there's a guy sweeping the street and i

said what happened he said well a plane

went into the side of it and i said well

was it just a

what did it look was it he said it was

an airliner it was so it wasn't like a

private plane

and i thought oh my god so the first

thing i did was phone kirsty my wife um

because she was

in new zealand she was a news presenter

on itn and i said i think maybe you

should get into work

there's something going on here

and and then and then

i

was still out on the street and i saw

the second plane going you saw it coming

yeah

it was coming in from the

river so you didn't actually see it

coming in but you saw the impact of it

coming in

and

and then

you know

that day was it it made me really fall

in love with new york

it's sort of the release resistance of

the people

uh

how how they cope with it how they

it was it was it was amazing the people

of new york that day um and that that

week and

and

anyway

weirdly the community board still

happened on the thursday

and i went up and did my presentation i

said i

i don't know why i'm doing this it seems

irrelevant it seems

not

not

something we should be doing but you

know

you're running a meeting there was a lot

of other

points on the agenda so i was just one

of them and we got our permission um

and

that's how new york started but it was a

big big

sort of

race to find the finance and i was

calling everyone i was i was calling

everyone i did more show rounds of that

that that that warehouse building you

know running up and down the stairs

showing people around trying to be

enthusiastic

and then you know i was sort of getting

to know people in new york and i put

together this hard hat dinner

um

where

i i don't know how it happened and i

don't know

um

why it happened

but

you know the

really well-known people turned up to

this dinner and we had just had a six

burner on the sixth floor and we cooked

some chicken and we laid out the table

in the building site on with a white

tablecloth so it was real grit and

glamour

it was it was and and these people just

turned up and

i remember

david bowie been there

and i'm going

and i remember

i was so nervous i was i i i

and i i started talking to

him and he said

this is a great idea can i buy it

and i said well

there's nothing to buy at the moment but

can you invest in it yes and and so

he was one he was one of the investors

of of of sewer house new york which was

fantastic and and and then

momentum came and we rose raised the

money

everyone

sort of before that was saying a private

members club wouldn't work in new york

you know

people wouldn't pay a membership fee

people

treat restaurants like private members

clubs and

the velvet rope was the big thing in new

york

um

and i wobbled so often about should we

charge for membership and every uh i was

so nervous opening so i had new york and

i remember the opening party

um and

it was raining and they hadn't

finished putting the roof on

and and

people were staying in the hotel and

there was no water so we had to borrow

the showers at the local gym people had

to go down to a local gym for hot water

we had water but there was no hot water

and it was just this

roller coaster of an experience opening

in new york where

we didn't quite have enough money

and

you know the team

you know my we were carrying sheep

sheetrock or it's plasterboard over here

and sheet rock over there

up to the floors to try and finish them

putting the ceilings in and

and it was a it was a it was a it was a

journey but then eventually we opened

and

it worked it so people sort of took to

it

why bother you know like you had a great

business here in london you know things

are going well why why put yourself

through all that pain

um

a very good question and i think

i

could have just carried on doing things

in london but i

there was an ambition in me there was

you know there was this

this thing about being a brit and going

to new york and trying to take the thing

which i loved in london and see if it

worked in new york and it was

and it

and at points it nearly took the whole

thing down

and

but i

really felt at the time that

if it did bring the whole thing down at

least i tried at least i gave it a go

and i wasn't going to be

sitting in a rocking chair thinking i

didn't give it a go so i think there was

a sort of inner something in me which

wanted to see and maybe it was sort of

going back to my childhood when my

brothers were so good on the sports

field or or good at school i was trying

to prove a point

because because i sensed that a lot even

when you had this you know successful

cafe for you then to take the risk of

taking upstairs with an unknown idea

just because someone said it's available

and it's that

you know some people are more like the i

don't know they stay within the zone of

comfort and they just harvest but you

have this hunting

sort of predisposition as well even when

things are going well

so

well

i

there's something inside me um

maybe i was trying to prove to

my brothers my family that i i could do

this and and yeah i

and i do always look at things in a

positive light i do look at things like

you know if i look at a glass of water

i'd say that's half full um not half

empty and

and

and

hospitality i wanted to prove that

hospitality could be done differently

and i think with

cafe bowen

where we opened it all day and it was

chameleon it just kept changing to the

time of day it was and putting jazz on

in the afternoon and just sort of

making it much more customer focused

where

you would go out

40 years ago and kitchens would close at

2pm and you couldn't eat in the

afternoon and

i think that was something i felt i was

onto something to be able to make it

better for the customer and that sort of

took me back to

when i liked helping my mum and dad when

they had people around for supper and i

loved seeing rooms full of people having

a good time in cafe bowen and i loved

laughter i loved people connecting with

each other i loved people enjoying

themselves and i think i just thought

why didn't i just carry on doing this

at what point does that desire to prove

something need to be

contained because it might come at the

expense of like life balance

you know this question i've asked myself

a lot it's like

when you are successful in one thing you

have more opportunities to go and do

more things and then you might end up

being pulled so much by your ambition

and your desire to prove a point or your

insecurities that you then end up

compromising all of these other things

like

friendships and the other things that

make life fulfilling yeah and i it's a

it's a balance i've never quite got

right and

i'm super lucky i have an incredibly

supportive wife kirsty and

she

she sort of

really went on the journey with me and i

know

without her you know i wouldn't be you

wouldn't be asking me on to this podcast

and um

you know so she's been a great support

and my kids

you know were sort of part

of well you know they they had to

come to work they you know when i was

doing the rounds

on a saturday morning or during weekends

i'd have push chairs and toddlers and

you know they were just part of what was

going on and it had to sort of merge

into

one thing and what i've

successfully done is try and de-merge it

and have you know a when i'm at work i'm

at work and when i'm a family i'm with

family and that but that's taken a long

time so the

the

the balance is is something i think all

entrepreneurs

suffer

you say it's a balance you've not

got right what was the indicator that

you didn't get it right how did you know

you didn't get it right what was the

symbol i was always knackered

i was always sort of pretending not to

be

i was always

sort of

yeah um

yeah it was

i was internally coping with all the

pressure where i could but i wasn't

doing that very well

um so

i think it was

sort of

a combination of of of just realizing

that

yeah this was all

consuming it was it was it was really

dragging and and i was very lucky i had

you know great friends who are still my

friends from when i was a kid

and i didn't see them enough and you

sort of in our business hospitality it

is weekends it's nights it's

days it's

it's it's all the time and when you take

it to a different country then you have

to think well the day's just got longer

and then and and it's got five years you

know go to new york got five hours

longer

and so yes it does take its toll what is

that toll you said about coping with

pressure well i i i think

you know i

i sit here today and i think i'm lucky

because i think i got

a great

you know i i have great relationship

with my kids i you know it's my favorite

thing it's been with with the family and

been being been with them all together

um so um

but i think at times when you're

trying to prove yourself i'm trying to

prove that i could work in new york and

america i was trying to prove that we

could open sewer houses and other

parts of the world i i think it it it it

it was hard but

you know you suddenly then do realize

that you have to sort of balance it

was it was there a point in your journey

that was particular so the pressure

becomes so much and you almost feel

within your being whether it's your

health gives out or your your mental

health or you get anxious where you

think this is not

this is not sustainable

i i i never thought it wasn't

sustainable because i'm always such a

positive person but i think

you know kirsty was great you know she

kept saying you know we don't need any

more this is we don't need another house

the world doesn't need another house

nick you know

the

you know you don't need to be on a plane

all the time what who are you what are

you trying to prove

and

and there was a stage where i was

buzzing around everywhere flying here

flying there and and thinking it it was

all making a big difference but

really and i think the pandemic taught

me that was the fact that there's better

ways of using your time

and what are those better ways of using

you well you know

instead of buzzing around on a plane all

the time and spending 12 hours in a city

and then going to another city or doing

one night and one you sort of where

you know the teams are clever enough to

put on a bit of a show for that

that period of time so you're not

actually seeing really what's going on

and it was just smarter ways of doing it

and

and and also having a lot more trust in

the senior leadership team and uh

letting him get on with it and thinking

i didn't have to be everywhere for it to

work and actually often it worked much

better when i wasn't around and

and i mean i

i i you know because they were able to

just get on with it not worry about what

i was thinking all the time

that sounds like great advice for a

younger version of nick at the start of

the house journey what else would you

say um now in hindsight you wish someone

had maybe they said it but you'd wish

you had known

about how to achieve get to where you

are now or further um

but in a more effective whether that

relates to health or finance way what

what would be that advice you'd give to

that nick starting out on the server

house journey

well i've always been

obsessed about the customer the member

and that was always my number one thing

and the people who work for us so they

they were my two obsessions and

i the advice i think i'd give to

a young young young nick would be

you know

let them

take more don't think you have to you

know your team you know put it more onto

your team to get on with it and

don't try and do everything yourself and

also

you know there's a there's a point when

you have can prove yourself that you can

these things can work globally and

you know there's a time when

you know you have to

really properly delegate and let other

people get on with it

what are the you know because one of the

things that server house is known for is

this quote-unquote brand and i know you

don't like that word but this very um

i think i would say it was an

aspirational brand people want to be a

solo house person

how much in intentionality i don't even

know if that's a word has gone into

making that brand

aspirational

i i i can't think of a time where we had

a time where i was thinking about

making an aspirational brand i think it

that's

and if that's people's perception great

i'm really i'm i'm i'm

that sounds good

and

i

i

all i concentrated on what our members

wanted and

they've created that they have created

the the

[Music]

the fact that

you know there's a desirability to be

part of a house and yes we and we and we

got a brilliant team brilliant

membership teams globally we got

we got people who really care people who

have been on the journey for a very long

time

and i think

with their help and with every house we

have a determination to make it better

than the last house you know we always

start with a fresh piece of paper we

don't think well you know let's just

keep repeat repeat repeat we go

new new new how can we make it better

what are we going to change to make this

better what are we going to change to

make it more efficient what are we going

to change to make it better for the

member

and i think

our members really appreciate that and

they see that and they talk about that

and that's probably what's created

what you have just described

what is in hospitality taught you about

life

everything

i

sort of think

you know um it should be the national

service your people should go into a

year in hospitality because

i think

it teaches you so much i mean i spoke

earlier about

me going into that kitchen and

really learning how to get on with

people and from different backgrounds

different countries different different

everything and

i think it really teaches you you know

to be part of a team and there's a

customer there's

all your

you know people you work with in the

kitchen or the person cleaning the

dishes or a person

you know cleaning the rooms it you all

have to work together to make it happen

and i think so

it really

takes the shyness out of you and it

gives you an ability to get on with

people which i think is a really useful

tool i think it's better than a

a maths degree i think getting on with

people i think

um

you learn

you know just useful practical things

like making a bed or keeping a place

tidy or clearing a table of plates and

and and when you when you've got a

family gathering or something you can

suddenly clear the plates and

stack them up or you can

you can you can make a cocktail you know

which is really nice you know you know

that doesn't you don't even if you're

not in hospitality anymore you can still

make a cocktail you can still make a bed

you can still hopefully get on with

people you can still you know clear a

table you you you have to become quite

organized in your mind and i think

hospitality is a very rewarding

industry for that

hospitality is quite a quite a broad

term but at the crux of it what do you

think it is that you're actually selling

to people

what are they buying from you well i

think

what we want our member to do is

flourish you know we want them to

flourish

socially and we want them to flourish

you know at work and i think creating

memberships and you know that

word community of people who

are so like-minded and and

they all have a creative soul and you

put them in in one house you know

that

is like

you know

they bump into each other they talk to

each other i've seen businesses created

i've seen relationships created

friendships created ideas created and

and i think when you put people together

in a space and and and

it that is that is pretty special and

to see that happen in different

countries and different cities to see

members sort of really

using the fact that you go into the

house you can just go into the house on

your own just wander down there and you

know you'll bump into someone you'll

start having a drink with someone or a

cup of coffee with someone or you and

you're sort of you you're in the house

you're part part of that membership and

i and i you know people do it you know a

lot now and you know you can do it

digitally and they use algebra ribbons

and they use all sorts of things and i

think you know being part of cell hats

and you know those 500 members i talked

to you about

earlier you know they're still part of

us they still pay their membership if

they're still here they're still part of

it they don't give it up

and

and so you on one hand they the original

founder members of 27 28 years ago and

then on the other hand you got you know

huge

under-27 membership going into our

houses huge you know it accounts for

to 23 of our overall membership you know

under 27s and

it's it's

seeing in a room

you know the most successful script

writer in one corner

and on in another corner there might be

a struggling scriptwriter who's still

trying to write you know their first

script or you know vr a really

well-known artist or an artist who

hasn't sold a new painter who hasn't

sold their first bit of work

and

you know and taking that and and trying

to think well how can the person who's

done it help the person who wants to do

it and

yeah that's why i'm so passionate about

our mentoring scheme you're where

you know there is so much creativity in

the world and there's so much creativity

you know and and creativity is not owned

by the middle class

it's everywhere and

to

to be able to offer mentoring

to people who are less fortunate who

might not be able to afford a membership

or might not

know

what door to knock to get that

opportunity

is

sort of one of the favorite things that

we're doing my favorite things i'm doing

at the moment is seeing it happen so

going back to what you were saying about

creating

people in a room who all help each other

they all feel like they're looking out

for each other they all want to help

the person who who's down on their luck

or who is

is

is is is starting out or they want to

help the the

the

you know they want to create an idea

with another bunch of members and i

think that that that is special and it

goes back to

seeing people in a room having a great

time and and if our members can flourish

in in their lives if so our house can

just make their lives just a little bit

better then i think that's a good thing

are you naturally shy person

i think so

because it's funny because when i i meet

entrepreneurs there's various different

types of entrepreneurs um

once in a while i meet an entrepreneur

and a founder that's created a really

great business but it's quite i think

the word is unassuming as in they're not

very self-promoting you know you ask

them certain questions about what their

brilliance is for example and

they they don't necessarily point at

themselves they tend to defer it to

others so it just made me it's it's it's

curious because it's kind of

unconventional to me an entrepreneur

that's so

that feels so unassuming in a sense

in terms of

not having a huge ego i guess

um because the question i was going to

ask you and my head is going he's

probably not going to

get a he might defer this to something

else's

you've created such an amazing business

and it's such a wonderful brand and it's

it's admired by people that are

customers and that aren't customers just

for for the business but

i can't seem to get you to tell me

um

why

you out of everyone else that was trying

to do this was successful

because i got the ambition piece i've

got that persistence and that that

persistence that comes from that

childhood sort of maybe chip on your

shoulder but but

but i know there's more

well

i'm i can only tell you what i'm i i

think and i what i i do think is

you know

i i i love what i do i'm lucky i get up

every morning i have a skip in my steps

you know i'm skipping around i'm i'm

looking forward to getting to work i

i

i have a fantastic team around and

um you know i care deeply and if that

all adds up to

it working that's the reason why because

it was never for me a money play it was

more a

a thing that i wanted to try

and make hospitality

you know and that is a

i used to say catering but i've upgraded

it to hospitality and and to make

hospitality a sort of area of where you

can change it you can you know when we

open babington house you know it was a

first country house hotel where you

could get breakfast when you wanted when

there was no rules it was it was it was

you know your your bedroom at badminton

house probably nicer than your bedroom

at home so people would come down and go

well nick you know um

you know where do you get that tv where

do you sky that's new well i'm gonna put

sky in my houses or i'm gonna where'd

you get those sheets and and

so

i'm

not trying to avoid your question here

but i'm just trying to again answer how

i feel and why i do it i did get

something more from that which is just

your care yeah how much you care and

your passion and your care seem to have

a relationship together but and that's

that's so important because a lot of

people would be launching it for money

and then therefore they'd care about

something else whereas you really seem

to care essentially about the customer

experience more than anything else well

i i think i always say to our team as

sort of if

if our people are happy and that's the

members are happy then sort of

everything else will look after itself

because your places will be busy and if

you if you're smart and you're cost

controlled it

it it

everything else should be fine do you

think you're a success

i

i i think i said earlier but success you

can judge success in lots of ways um

you know i'd much rather be judged as a

father than

as

someone who runs a business and

you know i suppose you'd have to ask my

kids that professionally do you think

you're a success i

people tell me a lot and i i suppose i

have to listen to them in in in in in

in their eyes i'm i i i've i've done all

right you know i'm i'm still there i'm

still you know we're still

growing it's you know

sales go up you know it's it's it's a

good business in your eyes

i think so i think if i was to be honest

i couldn't sit here and look at you and

your eyes and say no i don't see what

i've done as something which isn't

successful because because it works and

when things work i presume that's a

success

and so what's next then for for you i

mean

tremendous business all around the world

and it's becoming so much more than just

houses what is the big next mental

challenge ambition excitement

well we're recently public

um

and you know we went public during the

pandemic i'm enjoying that challenge

really yes i'm enjoying it i'm enjoying

dealing with

you know and i

view all the analysts as smart and

and i think it's making us a better

business and i think

um you know so there's a journey on that

you know it's we're only 12 months into

it and people understanding that it's a

subscription recurring income

that

you know a third of our revenues come

from membership and

our our hotels our bedrooms are always

nicely full and we don't have to use

what other hotels have to use to fill

their hotels like booking engines etc um

i i

so i i think

that is a

a an interesting future on how to be

properly successful on the on as a

public company um

and there's so many

more places we can open houses you know

we we haven't even touched africa we've

only dipped our toe into asia we

we

we got we're going to latin america

later this year um to open in mexico so

there's a there's a there's a lot of

exciting new houses opening um and

being a public company

and just trying to get better every day

we have a closing tradition on this

podcast where the previous guest uh

leaves a question for the next guest

and um the previous guest has left you a

question

they have written they don't obviously

don't know who they're writing it for

but here we go um

if you could go back in time and change

one specific moment in your life what

would that be and why

oh

um

i would definitely have come up i

definitely would still would have done

over the top

i i would have done that

um

one specific thing

um

i i think i would have

i would have

tried to get my life

at my

balance between life and and and family

a bit better

why

because

you know running at 100 miles an hour

overtime doesn't always

sort of

you know

achieve everything so i think i think

and i've i've talked on the behalf of

many entrepreneurs and many ceos and

who

just get a bit obsessed and and about

their their world their business and i

think you know you you slightly better

of it if you're not so

if you have a more balanced view

yeah i was actually talking to one of my

friends about this last night that

you'll know um that runs one of the big

big companies in this country that's a

billion pound company and he was we were

having the same conversation about just

trying to remember amongst all of this

ambition that the like the actual most

important question is like are you happy

yeah and and that's one that um i've

definitely lost sight of for many many

years of my life in the pursuit of

building more and more and more yeah and

then eventually loneliness or some other

kind of consequence will show up and

remind me that

i've misprioritized but it's a it's a

great subject now isn't it and i think

people come out with pandemic and they

think there is you know

we want our lives to be slightly more

balanced and i think

i think

you know

that wasn't the case 25 years ago or 15

years ago or when you started your

business it was it was you know it was