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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Well, uh, anyway, thanks for coming down

here, man. Appreciate it. And

congratulations on that standout

performance against Tafimino because

that was a that was a giant wakeup call

for the entirety of boxing. The the

level that you're on. Was it so high

that you could be in there with a world

champion? A world champion and make him

a guy who beat

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, legit guys, including

Lomachenko.

>> Yeah.

>> It was a big victory for him. And you

made him look like he had no business in

there.

>> Honestly,

it's just hard work, dedication, and um

God-given ability. God-given ability.

I think you have all that plus

intelligence plus you start a real young

and there's something about those dudes

who start real young. You grow up with

that. It's like in your central nervous

system as you're a young child.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, would you start boxing like

five?

>> I started boxing at five. But honestly,

you could say the same for Tio, too, cuz

he kind of started at like seven. Mhm.

>> We both was kind of similar in like

experience, but I just feel like with

me, the God-given ability of my

instincts always kick in. Like when we

fought, I felt like

my brain just knew how to win. Like it

just everything was just like my

instincts kicked in and everything just

took over. Like I didn't even it it felt

like an out-of- body experience.

Well, you're a very tactical guy. Like,

you know, there's a thing. One one of

the things I love about watching you

fight is I love watching a guy who sets

traps and who avoids damage. And you are

one of the absolute very best ever at

setting traps and avoid damage. You take

so few punches in your fights. Yeah.

>> There was that one fight where you decid

recent fight where you decided to stand

with that dude. Who was that? Um

>> William Zapeda.

>> That's right. Zapeda is a tough guy,

man. But you fought that in a different

way. Did you do that on purpose?

>> Uh, it was partly on purpose and partly

to get his respect

>> cuz I really ain't have a choice but to

get his respect because if I try to

outbox him and move around the ring, I

probably would have made the fight

harder than it had to be. So, I knew

like I got to like make him respect me

early. And that's what I kind of like

started the fight hot.

>> Why would it make it harder than it had

to be if you boxed him? Because

sometimes when you like a guy like if

you watch today's boxing judges give the

fight to mostly the guys that's coming

forward. So if I have went in there and

bagging up and moving around around the

ring while he was more active, it

probably would have looked as though

he's winning the fight.

>> So I had to make sure like the judges

know who's winning. So I kind of had to

take some in order to give some in that

fight. It was a very unusual fight for

you. I I I saw an interview with you

after that fight be like, I'm not

fighting like that again. [ __ ] that.

>> Yeah, cuz I know like I see like the

modern day like the the old school

boxers and like the punishment that they

taking and you'll see them today. They

can't really talk as well as like

like the Andre Wars and the Floyd

Mayweather who can talk good and

>> still articulate things to their

grandparents,

to their grandchildren, to their

children. And

>> for me personally, it's like I want to

make sure that I'm

>> able to really speak

>> well to my kids and my grandkids and all

of that. So

>> taking punishment ain't for me. Right.

>> Yeah, I support that 100% and I applaud

fighters like you for setting an example

for young fighters coming up. Like

defense and tactics and understanding

the game is the most important thing.

These guys that want to put on an

entertaining fight and just go in there

and slug it out. Like man, you are

giving up your brain for some people who

don't give a [ __ ] about you.

>> About you. Oh my god. That's the God's

honest truth right there. I'll be seeing

a lot of fighters nowadays where they

stand there like punching bags and let

people hit on them and you'll see them

after the fight they marked up and

few in a few years I don't think that

they're going to be able to speak as

well as like somebody like me. No,

there's a bunch of examples of that.

Obviously, we could all see it. But, you

know, it's a complicated sport and for

people that don't understand the sport

and don't appreciate the sport, they

just see two dudes punching each other,

but they don't see subtle movements. And

you were doing this like half out jab

and then popping them with it. And you

could tell he had no idea it was coming.

It was so frustrating for Tafimo. was

watching. I was like I there was a bunch

of times where I was watching. I just

was yelling out by myself in my house

going woo

that check right hook. Oh, it was so

pretty, man. You you hit him with some

pretty shot. But it was it was just you

were just tuning him up. It was it was a

beautiful performance, man. Because it

was everything that I love in boxing.

>> Yeah. skill, movement, understanding,

ring IQ, knowing what's happening, and

and every time he would get fired up and

try and take it to you, the most he

could do is touch your body. That's all

he was able to do.

>> Uh, honestly,

I for me personally, I feel like I'm

like the best fighter in boxing. And I

don't like mean this in no disrespectful

way cuz I got a lot of fighters in

boxing that I still watch to this day

that I like and I'm like, "Okay, they I

I'mma steal this. Um, Usyk. I love Usyk.

I love Usyk. I love Bavar. I love them

um Eastern European styles.

>> But um for me, like I just feel like I'm

a fighter that could do it all. Like I

can do it all. Like whatever needs to be

done to get the job done, I can do that.

So some nights you might see I might

outbox people. Then some might some

nights I might stand there and beat a

guy up and beat them at their own game.

So, um I think for me I'm the most

complete fighter in boxing.

>> Well, that mindset is what you need,

especially in a sport where you've

dominated divisions. Yeah.

>> Right. So, if you've dominated divisions

and you're still looking to achieve a

higher level,

>> you can't just look at the guys that are

your competitors. Yeah. Because at 135

it was so hard for you to get fights. At

140 now, what are you going to do? You

just do that to Tapimo?

>> It scared a lot of people.

>> Yeah. Nobody wants to look stupid. I

mean, TFimo has had some good fights in

the past and he's lost in the past, but

he's never looked out of place.

>> Yeah.

>> And he looked out of place in that

fight.

>> It's crazy though cuz when I seen him

when he fought in New York on the um

Time Square card, I'm like, man, this

dude is nice. Like I'm sitting there,

I'm like, whoa. Like I couldn't believe

like how good he was.

But it kind of like just made me get up.

Like I'm like, okay, I want to

>> Yeah.

>> I want to see like what he can do with

me,

>> right? Cuz the way he made Arnold

Barbosa look in New York was like he

just made him look like he's not on his

level.

>> Well, he wasn't on his level, but then

Tafimo is not on your level. I mean,

this is the beautiful thing about

competitive sports, especially boxing,

this one-on-one, which I think is the

purest form of competition, boxing and

MMA,

>> is that you can show that as great as a

fighter is, like people could watch the

Tapimo fight and have no idea how good

he is.

>> Yeah, for sure. And I would say go watch

the Barbosa fight. Go watch the

Lomachenko fight. Go watch many of his

fights. The guy was an excellent

fighter. Still is an excellent fighter.

But there are levels. Yes.

>> And the mindset that you have, I am the

best fighter in the world, period. Is

what allows you to beat guys like that.

That and the hard work.

>> For sure. Um, like I said, I'm god-given

and I work super hard. Then I think the

biggest thing that I don't get credit

for is my discipline. Like I feel like

I'm very disciplined when it comes down

to

making the sacrifices and making the

life changes that I need to make in

order to be 100% on fight night. And I

feel like a lot of people don't give me

that. I mean, they don't know. They

don't know. They just see it. You know,

I'll be seeing like fans tweet and

they'll be like, "Oh, get off Twitter or

get off social media." But I'll be on

social media like right after I just

left the gym. I'm like what's the

problem? Like I'm just talking my talk

on social media right now. Like let me

live. Like

>> well people are always looking to

criticize but there's no way you can

have the kind of performances that

you're having

>> and not be locked in.

>> And not be locked in. It's not possible.

especially over 12 rounds

>> because I mean you know better than

anybody alive that the kind of

discipline that it takes to be in the

kind of condition that you have to be in

>> to fight 12 hard rounds they put on a

virtuoso performance it's like

>> it's crazy though everybody like like

y'all love the performance cuz y'all got

to see it that day but like for me when

I'm in the gym it's still levels that I

feel like I haven't got to shown to the

world like I kind of only really shown

like

70%

of like what I really could do. And I

feel like with that performance, it was

just like, okay, this is this is like a

okay day in the gym. Like a okay day. It

ain't like my best day in the gym. Like

I have like days in the gym where I'm

like

I don't know how I just did that, but

I'm just like on point. So it was a good

day though.

>> The thing is you're getting better.

Yeah, for sure.

>> You know, that's the thing. It's like

those days that you have in the gym and

those performance and the mindset that

you have like still not not saying I did

it all, not seeing, okay, virtuoso

performance, still only 70% of what

you're capable of.

>> That's what takes a guy from being a

very good fighter to being an all-time

great.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's a matter of maintaining that

over years and years and years. That is

so difficult for people.

>> Yeah.

>> And discipline is where that comes in.

Yeah,

>> enthusiasm and motivation is great in

the beginning. A lot of people have

enthusiasm and motivation in the

beginning, but it's

>> when you've been a champ for five years,

six years, you know, the the grind of it

all, the the 12week training camp away

from your family. People don't think

about that.

>> Yeah. That's why I'm kind of glad that I

got the all of the things that happened

in my career where I had a little trials

and tribulations happened early. So when

I had my hand problem and I had like a

fight where I didn't perform as well as

I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared

for like now. Now it's like I'm 100% on

top of my game. Like you're not going to

be able to like beat me

without me being like fully prepared.

Like you gonna have to be a bad dude to

come in the ring and beat me. Like cuz I

I just don't see it happening with none

of these guys. Well, it's like how far

you've gone, right? Like you started off

at five and been intensely focused for

all these years. How old are you now? 20

28.

>> 28, which is

>> prime.

>> Yeah.

>> That's it. Like 28 to like 34 is the

best year.

>> But then again, you look at Terrence.

>> I mean, he's at an age where a lot of

people say it's over and he put on the

performance of his career against

Canelo.

>> I don't know how he do it. He's like a

different human being. Like

>> he's so smart.

>> If I'm honest, he is like the reason I'm

not going to say he the reason why I am

who I am today, but he brought my game

from like where it was at to like a very

high level. And he don't even realize

like he done that. like me just being in

the gym able to watch him and pick up on

like the little things that he doing,

his bad days, his good days, his I'm

seeing everything and like when he come

out there on fight night, how prepared

and how ready, how confident, like

honestly

that dude kind of he put me into a whole

different world now to where I'm like,

"Oh, I can I can beat anybody. I get in

there with Terence Crawford and if I

could spar with him, I could How you

gonna hurt me? How you going? How How

you gonna beat me? Like

>> I'm in the ring with the best fighter in

the world. Like

>> one of the best of all time. You feel

me?

>> Yeah. One of the best of all and one of

the most versatile of all time because

that's a guy who switches up left,

right, and

>> there's nothing he can't do in a boxing

ring.

>> Nothing. Nothing he can't do. And the

way he sets people up. I We were talking

during the podcast I did with him. He

did this one sneaky thing where he was

throwing a straight left and then Canelo

would go to counter and he he would hook

it right off of the punch. Like on the

extension, Canelo would lean back to

counter

>> and catch him on the chin. You could see

it. It's like, "Oh my god, that's

pretty."

>> I've never seen him throw that punch

until Canelo, though. That's the crazy

part. being in the gym with another guy

who's an all-time great pound-for-pound

best. That is so valuable. And so many

guys don't like that because they don't

want to be the second best or they don't

want to be in there with someone who's

as good as them. You know what I mean?

Like iron sharpens iron

>> for sure.

>> And for you to be a young guy who have a

guy Terrence is what 10 years older than

you. have a guy who's further down the

path and be able to see him and absorb

all that is better than any coach in the

world.

>> Yeah. But it's been going on for years.

Like it ain't like just a new thing.

People don't understand. Like

>> when I was 19

years old, I was around Terrence.

>> Like I was at his house

>> playing him in 2K.

We go to the gym, argue like he really

one of the most competitive persons I

ever met in my entire life. But

>> you have to be

>> I just never like for me I just know for

a fact my game has up because of that

dude.

>> Yeah, it has to. It h it's also you're

seeing this level that is so high in

boxing. Like you can compare it. You

could go back and look at Sugar Ray

Leonard. You can look at Pernell

Whitaker. You look at all these guys and

you can compare Terrence to the people

that the pundits sit down and say

alltime great. Terrence is

unquestionably an all time.

>> Might even be better than them.

>> He might be.

>> All due respect to the legends.

>> I agree with you.

>> He is that good.

>> He's that good. I feel like there's a

thing that was happening before the

Canelo fight where a lot of people were

sort of dismissing his previous

opponents and saying he never beat

anybody and Canelo's another level. I

know a lot of people bet a lot of money

on Canelo. I was like, that's not a good

bet,

>> man. It it seemed like that's the thing

in boxing to where is like um if they

don't know the opponents, if you're not

fighting somebody that's like a bigger

name, right,

>> they makes it seem like the opponents is

not good. And that's like not true cuz

at the end of the day,

>> it's lowlevel opponents that don't get

the type of shine that the highlevel

opponents get, but they will beat the

highlevel opponent.

And are they really high level opponents

at this point? Like I don't know. So,

>> well, there's high there's high level

and then there's the elite of the elite,

right? Yeah, for sure. There's always

that there's like some guys that if

they're in like I always said that about

Roy Jones during his prime like

everybody said Roy Jones didn't find

anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made

everybody look like they weren't anybody

for sure

>> cuz he was that he was so elite.

>> Yeah. And that's kind of the problem

that Terrence was facing up until the

Canelo fight because when a guy goes up

two weight classes all the way up to 68,

>> right? I mean, starts his career at 35.

>> He's crazy.

>> Last fight he fights at 68 and then puts

on a virtuoso performance. Virtual shut

out. Maybe Canelo won one round. Yeah.

>> You know, I mean, then everybody has to

shut the [ __ ] up.

>> Yeah. But he showed everybody up because

you had to see like he used to say that

he wouldn't fight Canelo. Like he used

to be like, "Oh, Canelo's too big. I

wouldn't fight him." Then like it's like

out of nowhere he had a change in mind

and like he just went and attacked the

situation and it was a bad situation to

be in like you're going to go fight

somebody two weight classes higher,

punch hard,

>> bigger than you

>> and you're gonna go do that. So um for

me he just dude is amazing. He's amazing

and another amazing example for young

fighters, you know, incredibly

disciplined, never out of shape and has

all his faculties, doesn't do anything,

all his faculties intact, and he's

leaving the game with 100%.

>> No undefeated record, no questions

asked, fought everybody. There's no one

lining up to fight him right now. He's

older and he's he did it all and he came

out unscathed. Bye-bye.

>> That's my biggest goal.

>> It's a perfect goal.

>> My biggest goal is to leave boxing. And

when I leave boxing,

be good enough, well, not good enough,

great enough financially to where I

don't ever have to get back in the

boxing ring. Like, I don't want to be

one of them fighters that's like need

boxing. Like, I hate that. Like, that's

my biggest pet peeve. Like, long as I'm

having fun with boxing, I want to be

doing it. But once it's not fun no more,

I don't want to have to like, oh, we got

this $20 million payday.

I need it and I don't want to feel that

way. So

>> like Floyd,

>> yeah,

>> like the situation that Floyd's in right

now. This is crazy. I was having a

conversation with a friend of mine right

now and he's like, "Why is Floyd

fighting again?" I go, "Cuz he needs

money." He was like, "What? How? Floyd

made more money than anybody ever." It's

like, "Yeah, but he spent more money

than everybody ever."

>> Yeah. I try to stay out of that cuz I

don't know like the real situation with

Floyd cuz I'm not really in tune on it.

But um only thing with Floyd that's kind

of weird to me is like he love boxing so

much. Like you got to actually be around

him like he want to be in the gym. He

want to like So it'd be hard for me to

just believe like okay he's just dead

broke. Like I don't know. It's hard to

believe that. Well, if he's not dead

broke,

>> he's definitely got issues.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. So, he's got a bunch of lawsuits

where he owes money.

>> You know, Logan Paul says he owes him

money. He owes money for some other

things. I don't know. I'm with you. I

don't know. But it's also it's like I

like a guy like Andre Ward. I like a guy

who goes out on top and you know, they

offered Andre a ton of money to come

back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat

Kovalev.

>> Yeah.

>> And he was like, you know what? I think

I serve boxing better as a commentator

and a spokesperson for the sport. I made

plenty of money. I'm undefeated. Two

division world champion, Olympic gold

medalist. Bye-bye. That's it. All

faculties intact. No worries about his

brain health and everything like that.

That's the way to go out.

>> Andre Wood is another dude who uh helped

my career.

>> Yeah,

>> he helped my career a lot, too. He um

if I had to if I need a if I need

something, right? Let's say I need

something and I need to figure out how

to do it or what to do in a situation

with weight or whatever it is when it

come to boxing.

If I'm calling Andre Ward, he gonna give

you the best explanation. Like out of

all the guys like he explains things

from detail like he gonna detail it and

make me really understand what I got to

do. Like um Audrey Ward is somebody who

I looked up to since a kid. So he

another guy I just wasn't around him

enough in the gym as I was around Bud.

>> But like Andre Ward was my favorite

fighter as a amateur. Like I think Yes.

>> Well, most people don't know that Andre

Ward fought most of his career with one

arm.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is crazy. Which is crazy.

>> That one arm is his best arm. He's

left-handed for real. For real. So

>> But it's still crazy. It is.

>> It's still crazy. Think about all the

guys he beat and he beat them with a

left hand.

>> Yeah. and then finally got shoulder

surgery and then had a right hand and

still still kind of [ __ ] up. It's not

100%.

>> You know the misconception about his

career? I feel like when he beat

Kovalev, people don't realize how good

Kovalev was.

>> Oh, he was good in the day.

>> Like he was insanely like

>> [ __ ]

>> power, boxing, length. He had

everything. A great jab, a great right

hand.

>> Yeah. And for Andre Ward to go beat that

dude,

>> that put the stamp on like his career

>> and got dropped.

>> Yes.

>> Got dropped and hurt and recovered and

still won. I mean, that was big. Yeah.

Kovalev, people see Kovalev when he lost

to Canelo,

>> he was already kind of washed.

>> Yeah, he was already washed. He had been

drinking a lot.

>> There was a lot of, you know, a lot of

these fighters, they get to, like we

were saying, it's sustaining that will,

that drive, that discipline, that focus.

>> It's hard to do. But if you go back when

he had it, man, when he was in his prime

and he was a world champion, he was

[ __ ] everybody up, man.

>> And he was scary.

>> Yeah, he was a killer.

>> Scary right hand. Woo.

>> Yeah,

>> he was a pissing.

>> I'll go back and watch him too. He

another guy that I go back and watch.

>> I like the way he keep his distance. He

keep his distance really good. He got

that Eastern European like them guys

>> are really good boxers. Like when I

watch them, I'm like, "Okay." Like I

love watching Pval.

>> Ball is amazing.

>> I love it.

>> He's got such an amazing style. I mean

him uh Usyk Lomachenko is kind of a a c

that's a fight I really wish would have

happened between you and him man.

>> Was there ever talk about that?

>> I messed myself up. I kind of did this

to myself so I understand um why a lot

of fighters wouldn't fight me. A lot of

fighters wouldn't fight me because I

sparred them and

>> I messed myself up. Like I I when I was

trying to spar him at that time, I never

thought it would be a day of me and him

fighting. Like I didn't think that far

down the line. I really was just

thinking he was the best fighter in

boxing, number one pound-for-pound.

I want to be able to go get in the ring

with him and see what like

>> right

>> how I can do. Like they told me they

wasn't even going to pay me for the

sparring. I'm like, "Okay, I'm cool. I

don't want to get paid. I I'm just here

to get in the ring with Lumachenko." But

um years later, yeah, the fight,

>> how did that go?

>> How the sparring went? I think um See, I

don't

>> I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I

can't say

>> that.

>> But you don't have to diss him.

>> I'll keep it real with the sparring.

>> Okay.

>> I felt like I was out boxing him, but I

also knew

the level he was on was like his

conditioning. And that's when I it made

me like, okay, I got to be in like

tip-top conditioning. Cuz the first day

we sparred, we did six rounds. I feel

like it was like, "Okay, I can outbox

him."

>> The next time we spar, he made me do 12

straight.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

>> So when he made me do 12 straight,

>> for the first eight, I'm good. Like I'm

I'm good for eight. But like the last

four rounds, I want to say, he started

like picking up the pace and he ain't

get off on me, but he got the better of

the um last four rounds, I would say.

You feel like it was because of fatigue

a little bit?

>> Yeah, it was for sure because of

fatigue, but it wasn't like the skills.

Like skillfully, I felt like I was the

better fighter. Like I felt like my

range and my distance and my speed was

kind of better than his. But like from a

standpoint of being in shape and

throwing more punches, I felt like he

was kind of But he was getting ready for

his fight. I was getting ready for my

fight, too. So,

>> Well, that's a very valuable learning

experience, right?

>> Yeah. You mean better to learn it then

than to learn it in a fight?

>> Yeah. But

for real for real, it messed me up

because now it's like if I'm Lenenko and

I know he was what 126 pounds at the

time he was a kid. Now I see him all

grown up. He bigger, stronger, and I

seen what he was doing as a kid. I

probably be like, why would I test the

water with him? like I I wouldn't really

want to see that guy. That's not the guy

I would want to see. So

>> that's funny. Um so you think that those

sparring matches were the reason why you

never got a fight with him?

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> I was surprised too uh fought me.

Honestly, I was very surprised.

>> Did you spar him as well?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But when we sparred, we only did three

rounds. But he made it seem like he kind

of got off on me. But honestly, I felt

like I was the better fighter.

>> Well, Tio is a very headstrong guy.

Yeah.

>> You know, very, very tough, very

confident guy. I mean, look, when he

beat Lomachenko, that was his standout

performance. He had that piston jab,

man.

>> Oh, he was sharp.

>> He was sharp.

>> I watched that fight a thousand times

before my fight.

>> Well, I just think he knew that

Lomachenko was a ghost. He was so hard

to hit and just he came out explosive.

He looked good in that fight. Lachenko

had a speed to like

get get his respect.

>> Like I feel like Tio was kind of faster

and he knew like from a speed standpoint

he was going to use it to his advantage.

>> Also Tio was a lot bigger and he was

dangerous. Like he was throwing danger

with every punch. Even that jab had

danger behind it.

>> It's crazy. I felt like he was strong

when I was fighting him.

>> Strong as [ __ ] dude.

>> Everybody think that he wasn't. But I'm

like, man, I ain't going to lie. It was

some shots like I would catch on the

glove and I'd be like, "I don't know

what you what you doing in your

training, bro, but I'm kind of solid."

>> But look at the size of that

[ __ ] I mean, he's jacked. He

looks great.

>> He's ripped. He's ripped.

>> Yeah. He's just But, you know, he's not

done. And a fight like that with you is

a wakeup call for a guy like him, too.

It's like, man, I got a tight

>> though. It's 50/50 cuz sometimes it can

play with your mental. M

>> so some some guys don't be the same

after getting embarrassed in front of

the world like that like

>> well he's come back before like the

Kambosus fight Kambosus dropped him

early and that was a that was a crazy

upset.

>> Yeah but it was different cuz in this

instance he got really embarrassed with

Kambosas. It was like it was a

>> 5050. He felt like he won the fight. He

left feeling that way.

>> But getting dropped by Kambosus. Nobody

saw that coming.

>> No I didn't see that coming either. I

ain't going to lie. For sure.

>> I think it was like second round too,

right?

>> It was the first round, but Tio was

fighting dumb. I never seen Tio even

fight like that either.

>> He went in there like just trying to

knock him out from the first round.

>> I think after the Lomachenko fight, he

felt like this dude is not on my level.

I'm the best fighter in the world. You

know, that can [ __ ] with your head, too.

Overconfidence can [ __ ] with your head.

>> Yeah. I be trying to like with

>> I be trying to like stay away from that

like cuz I'm very like confident in

myself. So, I be scared of being too

confident. So, I'll be trying to like

make guys bigger in my brain like, "Oh,

this guy is he's the truth." So,

>> that's smart.

>> Yeah. I got to like I I don't have no

choice cuz I'm very confident.

>> We've all seen fighters that go in

unprepared and think that a fighter is

not on their level and then that guy

puts a

>> knock them out.

>> Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson.

>> Perfect example. 42 to1 underdog. And it

was a perfect storm because Buster's

mama just died.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> And Buster was always one of those guys

that was known to be super talented in

the gym. Super talented. Just but not

dedicated. Just not driven. Just didn't

didn't make the most of his talent. But

for that one fight, he was like, "I'm

fighting Mike Tyson. I'm not scared of

him. My mom is dead. I'm I'm putting in

the [ __ ] work." And he came out

throwing that jab with the hook off the

jab. POP WHAP. POP WHAP. AND IT WAS a

totally different Buster Douglas. Like

the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen.

Ever.

>> Yeah.

>> That final combination when he knocked

Mike Tyson out. Dude, I didn't even

watch that fight live. A friend of mine

told me about it and I was like, "Are

you [ __ ] serious?" He told me at the

gas station. He's like, "Buster Douglas

knocked out Mike Tyson." I was like,

"What the [ __ ] are you talking about?"

And then I went home and watched it. And

even while I knew that Buster Douglas

had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up

and kill him.

>> I was like, I can't believe this is

happening.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> That's how much of an upset that was.

>> Yeah, that was definitely one of the

biggest upset I think. Um

I I don't know cuz I wasn't during that

time, but from what I seen, it just

looked like Mike didn't expect him to be

that good. Like it was a shocker.

>> I think it was a shocker for everybody.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, that's

>> But that's boxing. That's what can

happen in the sport. I done seen that

happen plenty of times. And um honestly,

it be some guys that I see in a gym that

I'm like, "Bro, if you do that stuff on

fight night, bro, you probably be

champion of the world." Like, it's a lot

of gym fighters who really got talent.

But

>> yeah,

>> when them bright lights come on, a lot

of fighters be kind of different.

>> And what do you think that is?

>> I think it's pressure. I think it's

nerves. I think is like it's a lot. It's

a lot cuz I know I felt it like I felt

it for my fight with um Tio. I felt

pressure. I felt all of that kind of

stuff. But

I'm too tough. Like I know my mental

ain't gone. It's me or that person at

the end of the day. My life or your

life. And I'mma choose my life when it

come down to it. So, um I was good. But

I know it's a lot of fighters that I see

in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't

understand how you don't perform like

this on under the lights.

>> There's always guys like that. There's

always guys that are potential world

champions in the gym. And, you know,

some people bank on them and some, you

know, you go, "This guy just needs a

mental coach, needs something to get him

over that hump." But it it's always

interesting to me because what is the

difference between a guy who could just

walk out there on fight day and perform

at 100% of his ability versus a guy who

gets dwarfed by the moment. The moment

comes the big pressure. Yeah.

>> It's all mental. It's all in your head.

Like what you thinking and what you

believe in and the things that's going

on in your brain is what's going to come

out. Like I'm already telling myself,

like I said, I tell myself it's either

me or him. So my life or your life and

one of us got to go.

>> Yeah.

>> One of us got to go. But what do you

think is going on in the I mean

everybody experiences pressure,

everybody experiences nerves, but what

is it about fighters that are so

talented that let that overcome them

versus fighters often times that maybe

not even as talented but they rise to

the occasion when those lights are on

when those lights are on. There are

fighters that fight better like

sometimes they look [ __ ] in the gym and

then when those bright lights are on

>> I had moments like that. I had moments

where I'm like, man, I I felt bad in the

gym. I don't know what I had this camp.

This was a horrible camp. And then fight

night come and I'm like on point.

>> Well, you know, that's what they said

about Ali when he fought George Foreman.

Yeah.

>> They said he looked terrible in the gym

and everybody was nervous about him. But

>> yeah,

>> he had a strategy.

>> I think what like some fighters is fear.

Like I think it's fear of like losing or

fear of the negative happening. And

>> I think with some fighters they allow

fear to control them.

>> Yeah. as in some other fighters who if I

get fearful I'm going to attack my fears

like I'm not scared to even go and and

and give it a try. Whatever happened is

going to happen at the end of the day.

It's all written already. So

>> is this something that you built up over

time or is this something someone

imparted on you when you were young and

you embraced it? Like how did you learn

to have that champion mindset? I think

it's wild to say, but I think it's

really my little brothers and my little

sisters, but really my little brothers.

I used to go to amateur tournaments and

if I lose and I got to come home to my

little brothers. Oh, they on me. They on

me. And it's like, you got to come home

and they they remember the name of the

opponent that beat you and they will

throw it in your face. Oh, don't make me

go get Joseph Adorno. That's a That's a

real guy that beat me back in the day.

Shout out to Joseph Adorno. But um I

used to have to hear that in the house.

And now

I still be with them. So it's like I

know I got to go home to my little

brothers and see them after these

fights. And I I had that in the back of

my head. I'm not I'm not coming home to

them.

>> That's crazy.

>> Without the win. Like I They got us

know. Like

>> did you tell your little brothers that

they do that for you?

>> No. They I I don't even think I ever

said it to them. It just was so natural

cuz I used to always get in fights with

them and they used to always bring up a

opponent that beat me and I'm like now

they now if I beat everybody they can't

say it no more.

>> That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

Well, because different fighters

develop, you know, different ways of

rising to the occasion, different ways

of maintaining a championship's mindset.

And some of them they learn it from

their coach. you know, custom motto

famously trained Tyson and even

hypnotized him and told him that you

don't exist, only the task exists. And

he had Mike Tyson just like a [ __ ]

machine when he would get into that

ring.

>> I think um shout out to my grandfather

too cuz my grandfather is my coach and

like his energy during fight week like

it they don't even realize like it

wasn't even just the coaching that he

was doing. It's like the energy that he

kind of gave off to me. It reminded me

of me when like I was a kid and me and

him would go to amateur tournaments and

like he just so like amped up and like

ready and like it kind of brought on to

me and it kind of got me like amped up

as him like okay I got to I got I got to

stand on business for my grandfather. I

got to I don't got no choice.

>> Oh wow.

>> But he's he's definitely a great coach.

>> So family is a big thing for you.

>> Yeah, family is everything for me. Like

I enjoy spending time with my family.

Like I'm not like a lot of these boxers.

Like with all due respect to them, they

like the fame, the

all that kind of stuff. The cars, the

I'm more so like I get a big check, I

want to go on vacate with my family or

go chill with my family. And I don't

like doing stuff. Like I enjoy spending

time with my daughter.

>> That's great.

>> Like I'm different. And I'm not like

them guys. Like

>> that's so smart. It's so smart because

all that other [ __ ] just drains your

bank account, distracts you from your

goals, gets in the way of things.

>> It's like when I was a kid, I used to

want the fame. I used to be like, "Oh, I

want to be famous. I want everybody to

know me." But it's like once you get it,

it's like, "Ah,

I don't like this.

I don't like this." It's like you go

places, people pulling their phones out

and like

>> it's weird.

>> They trying to record you. Like, bro,

why you I'm just a regular person. Like,

that's how I feel. Like, everybody

bleeds.

>> We all the same. We all human. Like, so

I kind of move with that kind of thought

process. And I feel like a lot of people

don't move with that. Like, especially

people in my position.

>> Yeah. You can get inflated. Your your

head can get screwy. It's like you got

to balance two things at the same time.

One, you are the elite of the elite. You

are a world champion and one of the

pound-for-pound best to ever do it. And

then on top of that, you're just a human

being.

>> Yes.

>> And we're all just human beings.

>> But what we like, what people love about

watching championship caliber fighters

and championship performances in in any

sport is watching just a regular human

do something extraordinary. Yes.

>> And that gives us inspiration. Like when

I watch a great fight, I feel better for

the rest of the day.

>> Yeah. Like when I go to bed, I feel

great. Like I watched that fight. I went

to bed. I was like, "Woo!"

>> I felt great. I text Josh right after

right right after it was like right

after it was happening. And uh that's

how we got in touch. Josh Duben, shout

out to Josh.

>> Shout out to Josh.

>> But I remember I texted him. I'm like,

"Dude, that was extraordinary." And then

next thing you know, we're on the phone.

>> Definitely was a great um great night

great night of boxing. I enjoyed it. Um

I'm just glad to be here. Like all glory

to God. I'm glad to be here. Um I've

been here. Like I've been here. I've

been telling people like I'm the best.

I'm better than these guys. And

>> you have but you needed that breakout.

You needed that breakout performance.

And the problem is everybody knew you

were so good. It was hard to get someone

to sign up for that breakout performance

because for a breakout performance, you

need another dude who's had breakout

performances that everybody respects and

knows

>> like Tia Feimo.

>> Yeah. That's what I that that was my

main reason in fighting. I'm telling

you, I watched him in Time Square. I

looked, I said, "We fighting him."

>> Yeah,

>> we fighting him. I want to fight him.

Um, he he looked really good. He looked

really good.

>> That Times Square card was weird.

>> He was the best fighter on the card.

>> 100%.

>> No question.

>> It looked like everybody was playing it

safe on that card.

>> Yeah, it did. It did.

>> Like Devin Haney, the Devon Haney fight

was odd.

>> I learned what I learned from that card.

I felt like I felt like them fighters

didn't have enough adrenaline pumping.

Like I feel like

Ryan I know when he got in the ring his

adrenaline couldn't been like too high

because it was like sparring. Like it

was like not a lot of people there. It

wasn't like that much pressure. You

could hear everything somebody is

saying. I know Ryan heard me all night.

Like he had to hear me. I was cheering

him on like telling him like, "Man,

throw the hook. Throw the hook. Throw

the hook." But

>> that was when he fought Roelly, right?

Yeah.

>> Yeah. That was a wakeup call, too. Like

that was another fight where people did

not expect Roelly to beat Ryan.

>> Yeah, I'd be thrown off. I I didn't

expect it either. That was one one of

the fights where I kind of like vouched

for Ryan. I'm like, man, he got skills.

He's a skillful fighter. Then he got in

there. I don't know what he was doing.

Like I didn't understand what was

happening. You know, it's one of them

things where he has the fight with

Devin, he beats Devin, gets popped, you

know, for whatever he was on Austine,

and then there's like he's got a long

time off. There's a lot of people mad at

him. There's a lot of people, you know,

which is a such an unfortunate thing if

you think about his performance against

Devin because that was incredible.

>> Yeah. But the problem is

he got caught.

>> He got caught.

>> Yeah.

>> So like I don't know. Like for me

personally if you got caught is like I

can't really me I can't give you the

credit for that.

>> Right.

>> I don't I don't give him credit for that

day with that night with Deon.

>> Yeah. But steroids don't help you land

punches.

>> I give

>> they help you recover in training. They

help you train a little harder. They

might give you a little bit more power.

But that left hook was on point.

>> Yeah. But that little bit of more power

probably wasn't enough to hurt Deon. Cuz

if you really watch the fight and pay

attention to the fight and people not

might not agree with me on this, but I

feel like Devin was winning the moments

that was quiet. Mhm.

>> Like when people's not really ah Deon is

winning most of the like boxing match

other but the moments where Ryan was so

loud and like everybody got to see him

get hurt and knocked down

>> to where like I just feel like Devin if

he didn't get dropped by them punches he

could have won that fight.

>> But he did get dropped. That's the

problem. And also

>> but what if the Aster ring was helping

his power? Yeah. I mean, who was his

last fight against? Delgato. Who was his

his last opponent?

>> Who?

>> Uh Ryan. Who's the guy who just

>> Mario Barios?

>> Barios. That's right.

>> Barios.

>> Barios is uh a guy that was like tailor

made

>> for a guy like Ryan. Like he's a tough

dude. He He's very durable. Takes good

shot, but he's not that fast.

>> And Ryan was super fast in that fight.

>> He looked real good. He looked real

good. real good in that fight.

>> And it wasn't just like cuz people think

when I'm when I'm saying like, "Oh,

well, you don't know whether he's

cheating or not." I'm not saying that in

the aspect of his boxing skills. Like,

he clearly got boxing skills. Like, you

can clearly see Ryan know how to move

his feet. He know how to keep his

distance, use his long length.

>> Um, he can clearly box. I've been saying

this for years. So,

>> yeah, he boxes very well. And also, he

showed that he has a right hand, too.

Yeah, that was surprising.

>> Yeah.

>> And he used it like the whole night.

Like he just kept throwing it. So that

was very surprising.

>> But I mean, of course, if you want to be

a complete fighter, he had to develop a

right hand and start using it more

because that left hook is just world

class.

>> Yeah. And he was not only like throwing

it straight, he was throwing it around

the guard.

>> That was kind of like Yeah, it was nice.

>> It was a beautiful performance for him.

Has there been any talk about you two

matching up?

>> Uh yeah, it has. But um

>> like I said, everything got to make

sense. Like people don't understand that

I walk around in my 40s. So if I'm

walking around in my 40s, I don't think

like me going to 147 like when I fight

at 147, I think that will be my last

weight class like in my career. Like I

don't see myself going past 147 ever.

But I'm 28 right now. I got a long way

to go. So um I don't plan on moving to

47 no time soon. So, if the fight

happens at whatever weight class that I

say, then I'm cool with it.

>> Can he make 40 again?

>> He said he could. He the one who came

out and said like, "Let's fight at 140."

He said that. So, if he said that, it's

like, "Okay, you can make the the weight

then. Let's do it."

>> What weight was the Javvante fight? Was

that 140?

>> That fight was at 136.

>> That's right. And then he gave him a re

rehydration clause, too.

>> Yeah. 10 pounds. Yep.

>> Very smart.

Very smart. Very smart, right?

>> I mean, yeah, smart.

>> It was in that situation, but um

>> I mean, I just felt like with the

rehydration clause at that time, when

you already bringing somebody down to

like a weight class that they haven't

fought in years, it's like you could

have not put the rehydration clause like

it wasn't necessary at that point in

time.

>> I think it was necessary. I think it

helped a lot.

>> It did.

>> It helped a lot. if you if you can only

rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's

way bigger than that. Ryan's a big guy.

>> He looked weak on fight night. Like he

looked extremely weak.

>> But I guess those dollars that that

paycheck was just too tempting.

>> Understood that move. I never understood

it. Cuz if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a

big name in the sport and all of that

kind of stuff, why would I accept

everything into somebody else's favor?

>> I think because that's the only way he

could get the fight. You know,

>> well,

>> well, this is the same thing when Canelo

fought Floyd, right? Floyd made him go

down to 152,

>> remember?

>> But it was no rehydration clause.

>> Um, was it?

>> Nope, it wasn't.

>> Even if there's not a rehydration

clause, nobody.

>> Well, that's good. But if you make a guy

get down to 152, even if you give him a

rehydration clause, like that's going to

drain something out of your tank.

>> But is it right? Cuz my question is,

wasn't they fighting at 154? Wasn't

Canelo fighting at 154?

>> Normally. Yeah. So, he only struggle.

>> But that, you know, that last, you're

not a big weight cutter, but if you

were, that last two pounds is death.

>> Oh, for sure.

>> When you're already drained out, cuz he

was a big guy for 154. And to drain out

and get all the way down to 152, that

had to be hard. He didn't look the same

on fight day.

>> You think so?

>> Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso

that night. I mean, Floyd

>> Floyd looked so good that night. that

night. I don't think if he was 154, 160,

I don't think he was beating Floyd.

>> I think you're probably right. But I

also think Floyd was smart to get him to

down to 152.

>> For sure. The business.

>> Yeah. It's like every angle you can get,

every advantage you can get is a good

one. I do agree with you about the

rehydration clause. Like get out of here

with that.

>> But we got to understand too, right? Cuz

I get

Floyd in that instincts. If a guy is

gonna blow up to let's say what we we'll

just do me and Ryan Garcia for example,

>> okay,

>> I'mma blow up like 148.

He's going to blow up 168 to 170. Now

it's like you in a ring with somebody

that is like 20 pounds bigger than you.

And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get

big because he got big at the getting

down to 152. So, it's like I kind of

feel it in a way like I understand it.

Now, the rehydration clause is kind of

crazy, but I will only do a rehydration

clause for fighters if I go up to 147

pounds

>> cuz I'm not a 147 pounder. So, why would

I fight

>> at their weight class where they're

comfortable and just make it easy for

them? Like, I don't

>> Well, the thing about a fighter like you

is it's just difficult to find big

names. I mean, if Jervante fights again,

that's a that's a big fight if you but

that would probably be at 135, which you

could probably still make easy, right?

>> Easy.

>> Yeah, no problem.

>> So, you have fights at 135, one fight

and fights at 140, but it's just going

to be hard to get someone to step up.

That is going to be that big

pay-per-view selling fight.

>> Yeah,

>> that's the problem.

>> That is the problem.

>> You're too good. That's the problem.

You're too good. Somebody told me that

before I went pro before they was like,

"You going to have a hard time in the

pros." I'm telling you.

>> Yeah.

>> But I understand it now.

>> Do you remember your first pro fight?

You remember what it felt like?

>> It felt like a whole new experience.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

>> How so?

>> I've been When I was in the amateurs,

guys wasn't as like dirty as the

professionals. Like you don't get

introduced into dirty boxing until you

turn professional.

>> Didn't you get headbutted in your first

fight?

>> He headbutted me and that's what kind

>> on purpose, right? Not an accidental

>> headbutt. That's what kind of make me

say, "Okay, I understand. This is a

whole different

atmosphere. It's not the same um amateur

and the pros." And a lot of guys from

the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as

well as I did. So,

>> well, it's all about styles, right? Like

there's some guys who have styles that

are just much better for point fighting

and

>> Yeah, it's actually um you got to

develop a lot of things like um punch

placement. Like punching hard is really

a real thing in the pros. Like you got

to have something to make somebody

respect you. That's why when I hear

people say like, "I got pillow hands."

I'm like, "Y'all clearly must not be

watching." Who's saying that?

>> Uh, it' be a lot of people. They say I

got pillow hands.

>> No, you just fight smart.

>> Yeah, but I don't understand it because

it's like if I had pillow hands, right?

>> Why guys don't just go in there and just

knock me out like if I'm fighting

somebody with pillow hands, I'm just

going to put my

>> my shield up and just swing for the

fences cuz they can't hurt me. Like,

>> right.

>> I don't understand why nobody won't do

that if I got pillow hands.

>> You don't have pillow hands. It's

nonsense talk. What you have is a boxing

intelligence where you know when to hit

full blast and when to just touch them

up and crack them a little bit. Yeah.

>> And the accumulation of blows, the

frustration, the the the mental

confusion that a fighter gets when they

can't hit you and you can hit them and

then you start ramping it up and then

you start tuning them up.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it's people that the people that

are saying that just don't understand

what you're doing.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> What you're doing is just perfect.

you're fighting intelligent

>> and that's what I love. I love watching

a guy just outbox the [ __ ] out of

somebody. I love it.

>> Like I said that that like you were

doing this like half speed jab and then

from right there and you could tell Tio

was like Jesus Christ. You could tell he

was confused. It was so fast.

>> Too fast.

>> It was so fast. But that accumulation of

blows over time and his corner, it was

crazy. Did you listen to the fight? Like

did you go back and watch it? went back

and watched it.

>> His corner is like, "You got to hit

him." Like what?

>> It's so crazy though cuz like what I see

with his corner is like he been doing

this like his dad been getting in the

ring and giving him type of

instructions.

>> But Tio has been always so good to where

>> the instructions he giving him really

does not matter cuz he's

>> in control. He's winning these fights.

He's doing what he's supposed to do. But

that night, he did need he

>> needed a real coach.

>> He needed something better than that.

>> Yeah. Well, not that his dad's not a

real coach, but he needed some tactical

advice. He needed some instruction on

what this guy's doing to you, and you

got to switch it up entirely. You got to

do something that confuses.

>> His dad is used to like something

different.

>> That's why he went in there and said

like,

>> "Where's your power, bro?"

He's used to Tio's power showing up and

the amazing things that Tio does in the

boxing ring. He's used to that. But

>> whenever you going against somebody

who's on a different level also, you got

to be well prepared within like a game

plan.

>> Yeah.

>> All that kind of stuff. And I didn't see

no game plan.

>> Did you Did you know anybody that was in

his camp or ask anybody after the fight?

Like what was his game plan?

>> What did he think was going to be

different? No, I didn't actually. I just

>> I'd be interested to know that.

>> Yeah, I do too. But um I did run into

him after the fight. I ran into Tio in

the um back. So,

>> was it cool?

>> Yeah, it was cool. It was actually a

good conversation.

I felt bad that he was by himself. His

manager kind of cleaned it up. But

during the moment that I seen him in the

back, he was by himself. So,

>> I didn't like that,

>> man.

>> I didn't like that.

>> No, that's a bummer.

>> Yeah. But I mean, they said they was

with him all night, so um, respect to

them.

>> So maybe he just you just caught him in

a moment when he was alone.

>> Bad moment. Y.

>> Yeah. That's the last thing you want to

see is a dude who gets abandoned after a

loss. Like, oh my god. And then you got

to go back to camp with those [ __ ]

>> I don't even like how the sport is kind

of treating him now. Like everybody acts

like he's just this terrible fighter,

but

>> Oh, that's crazy.

>> I don't understand it when you got to

give him respect. Like this dude

actually stepped up and fought a guy

that nobody else wants to fight. So,

>> exactly.

>> He did it. He got in the ring and he

laid it on the line. It didn't go his

way, but he did. He He tried.

>> The thing is, I don't know if that guy's

ever going to separate from his father.

You know, I don't know if that guy ever

going to bring in another worldass

trainer that maybe would be able to

recognize some things that he's doing

that he can prove upon.

>> You know what's so crazy? During the

fight, he had a coach in his corner, and

I know the coach. He's from Florida. I

want to say his coach was telling him

some good advice.

I don't think he heard him or was

listening to him, but he was telling him

some good advice.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. I don't I I don't want to say what

the advice is because I got future

opponents. I got to make sure

>> Well, someone could go back and listen.

>> Yeah. I can't tell what the advice was,

but Right.

>> He was giving him some good advice.

>> Interesting. Yeah. It's hard those

fatherson teams. There's always there's

a lot of conflict with those.

>> Yeah, because I done watched it over the

years. I feel like dads like stay on top

of they fighter and they like

>> they they they they make it

>> they make it less fun. And I feel like

um that's why I think my granddad is one

of the best coaches cuz he allowed me to

love the sport of boxing myself. like um

when I had my football games and my pop

won the games, he came to my game,

watched them cheer, supported me. But

soon as I lost, I'm on the field crying.

I'm like, "Oh." He comes up to me, he

say,

"You know, in boxing,

you only could lose because of

yourself."

And I'm looking I'm like what he mean by

I'm like oh that is true because like

you're the one in a boxing ring doing

the boxing then um when I lost that

football game he was basically trying to

say it was my coach fault.

So like he just allowed me to choose

boxing though. Like he he always

supported me when I did other things,

but he kind of like he ain't just stay

on top of me like hound me with it. Like

>> Right.

>> He just took me to the gym and

>> Well, you got to let a young man become

his own man.

>> Yeah. He allowed me to choose it. And I

think um fathers in the sport don't

allow their sons to choose it too. Like

they're choosing it for them,

>> right? And a lot of them are overbearing

in the corner. It becomes a problem.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And they kind of be

>> coaches should listen to what I'm about

to say. Father coaches,

>> there has to be a difference between

a father and a coach. So when you're

coaching your son, you have to be a

coach in the boxing ring instead of the

father. Because when you're the father,

they're gonna reciprocate things wrong.

And I feel like um with coaches when you

coaching,

they can hear you a lot better.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, there's also the

relationship of the father and the son

where the father wants a son to listen

to him. Listen to me. I'm your father.

You go, you're going to do this. You're

like, "Fuck the [ __ ] off of me."

>> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] off me, dad.

>> And you you doing more harm to your son

than actually doing good for him. So,

>> well, especially not giving him

technical advice. Like, that is where he

needed real technical advice.

>> Cuz there was a lot of [ __ ] you were

doing that he just did not have an

answer for.

>> He didn't understand.

>> Yeah.

>> He didn't understand. He didn't clean up

his bad habits. And

>> that's the thing with these fighters. A

lot of them got bad habits and things

that they do. And I'm going to expose

it.

Well, I mean, the environment that you

came up in and having a guy like

Terrence and having other elite fighters

that you train with all the time, that's

so important. It's so invaluable

>> cuz all that [ __ ] gets exposed in the

gym. And

>> it does. That's where you work on it at.

>> Yeah.

>> That's where you work on it. If you

ain't work on it in the gym on fight

night, it's going to be exposed.

>> There's no if ends or buts about it.

>> Yeah.

>> How important do you think um an amateur

career is? Like do you think a guy like

Lomachenko maybe would have been an even

better boxer if he didn't have so many

amateur fights and went into the pros at

an earlier age?

>> I think a amateur career is important

because you got to had an experience,

but I done seen different to where like

guys will develop a lot more in the gym.

Like I done seen guys stay in a gym, not

go to tournaments, and they'll get

better and better and then out of

nowhere they'll go to one tournament and

then you'll be like, "Who the [ __ ] is

this guy,

>> right?

>> Where did he come from? How did he get

so good?" And um I think like developing

in the gym is like the biggest thing.

Like who you sparring, who you training

with, all of that stuff really matters

the most. The amateur experience is

cool. like, oh, Lmanenko, but if

Lumachenko had different things around

him in a gym, I feel like he probably

would have been a better fighter.

>> Well, already good.

>> Well, with Lomachenko, it's so crazy

because he really should have been

fighting at 126.

>> I mean, he really was never a 140 pound

fighter.

>> Yes.

>> He's a small guy.

>> Yeah. I don't understand that. I don't I

didn't I didn't understand that because

I think it kind of tarnish his career in

a way to where like the way people look

at him and people don't look at him the

same as they should because he was

really really good

>> but

he was at a weight class that he really

wasn't supposed to be at. So of course

you're going to have like a harder time

with them bigger guys,

>> right? Like Tio.

>> Yeah, like Tio.

>> Yeah, that was a perfect example. Tio

was huge in that fight. Yeah,

>> he looks so much bigger than Lomachenko

and just so dangerous that it like

[ __ ] Lachenko's strategy up

>> cuz you know you got missiles coming at

you from a giant dude. I mean Tio's

stacked.

>> Yeah.

>> And so you got to think like for those

guys I guess it's just about chasing the

multiple world titles and the the bigger

money at the higher weight classes.

>> Yeah, that's what um with Lumachenko

though, he act like he wasn't really

like super money hungry. So I never

really understood. Seemed like he's

maybe Yeah, you're right about the he

was chasing undisputed.

>> Yeah, undisputed in world titles. I feel

I feel like he got robbed in the Deon

Haney fight though.

>> Do you think that

>> to this day? Yeah, I do think I I scored

the fight for Lumachenko.

>> Yeah, I did too. I watched it three

times in a row cuz I was like, what am I

getting wrong here? Am I getting this

wrong before I started talking about it?

>> Yeah.

>> And I was like, no, no, Lachchenko

should have won.

>> Yeah, I thought Lachchenko won.

>> That was one of those where I was like,

oo. And I think that fight [ __ ] with

Devin Haney's head a little bit like

because that makes you feel like [ __ ]

when you win a fight and everybody

thinks that you lost the fight and you

got like then you have to carry that

around with you everywhere. Every like

Loacho beat you like no he didn't.

>> Yeah, it's a mental battle. Yeah, mental

battle

>> and then you got to get it back.

>> I think in that fight he really wasn't

even fighting the best version of Devin

because Devin was fighting at a weight

class he really shouldn't have been at.

>> What was that fight at? Was that 35?

Yeah. You think Devin should have been

at 140

>> at that time? Yeah. He should have been

at 140. He's too big for 35.

>> Yeah.

It's um it's interesting, man, that

balance of we're all [ __ ] up in MMA

because MMA there's there's too few

weight classes.

>> Yeah.

>> And so there's giant gaps, like huge

gaps like at 185 to 205, you know, 155

to 170 those there's no weight classes

in between. I mean, that's nuts.

>> Yeah, that's insane.

>> I agree. That mean it's guys that's like

little fighting bigger guys cuz it ain't

enough weight classes for them to be in.

So that sounds crazy.

>> It's stupid. And it's the one major

complaint that I've had with the UFC for

a decade. I was like, "We need way more

weight classes."

>> Yeah.

>> And they they're like, "No, we're going

to keep it pure. These are the champs.

Only eight champs." Like that's crazy.

>> I need to start watching the UFC.

>> Oh, it's fun. There's one this weekend

in Vegas if you're around.

>> I'm gonna watch some of it. It's a good

one.

>> I'm gonna watch it because I'm I'm like

like lost. Like I'm not really in tune

with like a lot of the UFC guys. And the

UFC people be kind of mad at me when I I

say boxing is better, but it's my sport.

So

>> of course you're going to think it's

better. It's what your life is based

around. For sure.

>> Of course. And if you talk to Max

Holloway, he's gonna say MMA is better.

>> Exactly. And they got good explanations.

Like I understand what they saying. like

you could do.

>> It's more like skills you got to learn

in MMA. But

>> for me, I just feel like boxing like the

skill level and the talent for me I like

better.

>> Well, there is no question the skill

level and the talent when it comes to

punching is way better in boxing. You

see some sloppy [ __ ] that people do in

MMA with boxing, but you also have to

think they're thinking about takedowns.

They're thinking about getting kicked.

They're thinking about their calves

getting kicked out from under them,

their legs getting kicked, their body

getting kicked,

>> messing up their punching, huh?

>> Everything. Knees, elbows, and then

there's stuff that you do in boxing that

you can't do in MMA because like your

legs exposed. Yeah.

>> You know, like there's certain positions

that you you would throw punches in that

a guy would just calf kick you

>> and you get hit with one of those,

you're like, "Oh shit." And all a sudden

your calf is numb and you're not moving

good. Your ankle doesn't work.

>> Yeah.

>> It's terrible. But that's the beauty of

that sport is that it's so diverse. But

the beauty of boxing is that it's so

concentrated on hand techniques. Yeah.

That the boxing techniques in in boxing

are far superior than what you're going

to see in MMA.

>> You see a few guys in MMA that could

make it as pro boxers,

>> but you don't see your level or, you

know, or

>> they can't be elite level basically.

Yeah.

>> There's no way you can.

>> Impossible.

>> No.

>> You ain't been doing it for long enough.

Just like you don't see these uh elite

MMA fighters that could compete in

jiu-jitsu tournaments. Yeah. And win

world championships. It's very very

rare. They used to The only way that

happens is if they were a world champion

in jiu-jitsu before they got into MMA

and they still have those skills at a

very very high level, then some of those

guys can kind of compete in world class

levels. But

>> what you what would you say is like the

best skill in like the MMA?

>> Wrestling.

>> Wrestling. I knew it. I already knew it

before I asked

>> because wrestlers can take everybody

down

>> and if you get taken down you're [ __ ]

>> I want to learn how to wrestle.

>> It's a great Well, Terrence to show you

how. Terrence Terrence is like one of

the only boxers that are like if that

guy fought in MMA he could do very well.

>> He would he would do very well.

>> I watched him um wrestle a actual like

USA team wrestler and he was kind of a

>> he could wrestle.

>> Yeah, he was kind of he was good. He was

good. He wasn't um getting

>> He's not lost.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. He knows what he's doing. And

look, his son just won a state title.

>> Yeah, for sure. He's He's the truth.

>> Yeah.

>> I want to learn how to wrestle though.

>> It's a good thing to know. It's a good

thing cuz it's a humbling thing.

>> I feel like they the strongest people.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Like I feel like when it come to

strength, like real strength.

>> Yeah.

>> Their bodies are like stronger than

most.

>> Oh, it's a different thing. When they

get a hold of you, you feel like a

child.

>> You just get ragd doll. Like this is

embarrassing.

>> You know, that's the most important

skill I feel. But every fight starts

standing up, you know. Every round

starts standing up. You know, at the

beginning of the round, you're standing

up again. So, that guy's got to take you

down again. And in that

>> that transition catch somebody.

>> Yeah, that's when you can catch someone.

>> Yeah, I figure that.

>> Look, there's elite fighters that aren't

great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex

Pereira, who's a two division world

champion, but he's just a destructive

kickboxer. Yeah,

>> he's such a terrifying kickboxer.

>> What is uh Jon Jones? Jon Jones a

wrestler.

>> He a wrestler.

>> Well, he's an everything fighter. He

could do everything forever, but he

started out his career as a wrestler.

>> I like him.

>> Oh, he's the best ever.

>> Yeah,

>> the best ever. He's the best ever cuz

he's the smartest of all of them. I

mean, he's That guy studies.

>> That's why I like him. That's exactly

why I like him. I seen a video of him

saying like he watches everything like

from top to bottom. He going to watch

your interviews. He going to watch

>> Oh yeah. every single thing until he

find a weakness. And yeah, that's why I

like him.

>> Yeah. He gets inside their head. He

knows every tendency they do. He sets

traps.

>> He does everything. It was funny. Daniel

Cormier, who I love to death, who's a

great friend of mine when he fought Jon

Jones. They were talking before the

fight about tendencies. And Daniel's

like, "Oh, I know what you think I'm

going to do. You think I'm going to lean

towards the right and you're going to

kick me in the head?" And John did

exactly that in the fight. It was so

crazy when he landed it. Look, I love

both of those guys, but Dan Daniel's a

close friend. And so we landed that head

kick. I was like, "No,

>> you know, and I'm doing commentary, so I

I've got to like,

>> yeah,

>> I've got to be balanced." And, you know,

and I do love both of those guys, but I

was like, damn, he did exactly what he

said he was going to do.

>> You said it on the commentary.

>> No, I didn't say it on the commentary. I

don't want to call it out there, but in

in the prefight, they were talking [ __ ]

to each other. And one of the things

like, "You have some tendencies, Daniel,

and I'm gonna exploit those tendencies."

And he was like, "Oh, you mean how I dip

to the right when I go."

>> And he he did exactly that.

>> He caught him with that head kick. I was

like, "No."