that's it i was like my career is over i

had like no confidence or no i was like

a

shell of like my former self

you don't often get to hear about the

real human

implications of cancer culture you don't

get to hear how it

feels for the recipient you don't get to

see

how it plays out in the moment my next

guest

he can tell you jack maynard was caught

in the middle of a well-known

well-documented british council culture

moment when something that he had said

almost 10 years earlier

resurfaced while he was at the peak of

his powers

while he was fulfilling his dream while

he was in the middle of filming

i'm a celebrity get me out of here a

couple of years ago and the events that

would unfold following that council

culture moment would change him

forever ptsd anxiety depression

shame he even remarked today that there

was a high chance he wasn't going to

make it to this podcast because some of

those symptoms still remain

i guess the question is how do you pick

yourself up from something like that

how do those moments feel what actually

happens when you're told while you're

in the middle of the jungle in australia

filming a show

that the outside world has turned

against you

these are the things you can only learn

from hearing the truth from someone

that's been through those situations

so without further ado my name is

stephen bartlett and this is the diver

ceo

i hope nobody's listening but if you are

then please keep this to yourself

so jack um i did a lot of research on

you and your your background what you're

into

the work you do and your sort of

professional endeavors are quite

eclectic

that you know it's hard to pin down

whether you consider yourself to be

a youtuber now yeah or a dj yeah

or something else so i wanted to despite

all the research i wanted to ask you

like i'm not a fan of like labeling

oneself

how do you how do you classify yourself

i still do describe myself

as a youtuber like to everyone on me i

kind of say oh yeah you know i do

youtube and

you still to this day get a look of like

which mean you

do youtube that's your job but i think

like you said there's kind of a

collective of things i do and when i

kind of break it down

to everything i do they yeah like kind

of

fully understand now like very recently

as well people have only just started to

understand like what it actually

is in that youtube and just social media

itself can be

obviously a job so yeah i still go for

youtube that's why

you don't post as much as you used to on

youtube

no mainly because

literally at the beginning of last year

i decided right i want to go kind of

bigger productions a lot like a lot of

the music videos i've done and

things like that and i just want to kind

of get out there like other i

kind of really want to just get loads of

like celebrities and like reality tv

stars on my

channel and do loads of fun things in

places like you know

all over the world with them and then

obviously kind of covert came in because

i was just at a point where i was

so like honestly like sick to death of

filming videos at home like in my flight

you know i was honestly just

beyond board and i had so many other

things i was doing as well you have i

think you i think i saw four videos this

not many is it considering i was

uploading

once or twice a week yeah before but

yeah like i said i really just

kind of couldn't face doing those kind

of videos and

for me youtube's always been something i

enjoy so much and my best videos are

honestly the videos i've kind of enjoyed

making the most what's the like the

you know people will look at youtubers

especially especially young kids and

they think oh god i'd love to be a

youtuber i think i read a report that

said

um one of the especially in the the

western world in the uk one of the

jobs that people aspire to young kids

aspire to the most gen z

is to become a youtuber yeah but i'm

sure and i know because i've spoken to a

lot of youtubers that

there's a lot of um adverse side effects

of the job yeah definitely i think well

the first thing is

people think it's obviously like people

do think it's easy

100 you know you get to sit around

making silly videos in their eyes i

think if you ask

you know 100 people probably 80 of them

would probably say are they just going

to sit around making

like stupid videos they don't see a lot

of the stuff kind of that goes into it

but it's definitely not easy you know

there's no guarantee that you're going

to do well on it you have no idea if you

do

well on it how long that will last and

all like you know there's all those kind

of things and it's just

a lot of pressure because it's not like

uh cool i know

i'm gonna do these every week i'm gonna

get paid like x amount this is gonna be

my job this could be my career like

you're on a salary site

no you could you know you could put all

your time and effort into it and maybe

like money into

certain things you're trying to do and

if it doesn't pay off

it's definitely and the algorithm

changes yeah well things are changing on

it

constantly you've got to really like

kind of try and

keep up yeah exactly it's anxious yeah

you can have a month where you do really

bad or you upload a certain video that

you're really proud of and it does

really bad and you're just like

oh god why is that and then you kind of

fall back to your safety net of things

that you know

maybe will do well but you don't want to

do those anymore and it's just like a

yeah it's very hard and i think it does

affect

people in like many different ways some

people kind of love that and they love

the challenge you want to keep on going

which is amazing but

yeah like i said there are people who

want to do this one thing

which can do incredibly well and then it

switches and it suddenly doesn't do well

anymore

not through any fault of their own but

just because youtube have kind of

decided yeah we want to see

more stuff like this and they can push

all that kind of content in yeah people

can get incredibly bad like mental for

me and i think people are very vocal

about that now

as well which is which is amazing so

it's really good but i think yeah

especially

obviously all youtubers are pretty much

like self-employed so

if you are doing very well and then one

minute it drops and that's it

i remember frankie cacosa said yeah do

you know frankie yeah

he's from brighton yeah frankie said to

me one day i'm sure he won't mind me

saying

this that um obviously after all the

fame he had a fairly young age x factor

he did a couple of other shows

and then the money dried up yeah and he

was like well i can't go and work at

[ __ ] tesco now

because yeah i just like an ego still

yeah it has the money but the ego is

kind of still there in a way

i see that with youtubers a lot i think

i think they because they've

they've been in the public spotlight and

they've built fame

yeah you know or notoriety in whatever

way they then feel like they

they can't go and have a normal life

because yeah fame your

your family is fairly famous i'd say

yeah relatively

yeah yeah i heard your your grandpa your

grandparent your granddad

your dad were also singers yeah so my

grandad i i don't know like

too much about it so i know my dad

appreciated like west end when he was

younger

kind of like a kid but you might still

be making that up there you know give

him

up i have no evidence of this i used to

be a football player

but they did that and then yeah my

granddad as well was like a kind of like

stage singer

and things like that um so i think

that's probably where my brother gets it

from

that's for sure and i guess he's had

like the most fame out of all of us

um but yeah he kind of started on he's

the more

you know traditional like famous like

pop star whatever you want to call it

but

he kind of yeah the same as me side on

youtube and he's kind of like back to

that now as well has kind of gone

full circle so he's kind of back on

there and how was that when when he i've

got

two brothers i know people ask you a lot

and i've seen them ask you a million

times like are you jealous of your

brother or like whatever but um

how was that when he started to get a

little bit more

well-known um and you're a younger

brother

yeah he's two years older than me so

i've got two older brothers as well so i

can relate

okay but i can't relate to them being

famous yeah to be honest it was there

like honestly was no jealousy because i

think one i was so young like

i was literally sitting in school just

finishing school like leaving school

he was like kind of yeah relatively

famous got signed all of this so he's

doing that really well

great money coming in like moved to

london all these things so it was just

like

so cool feels like so cool to just be

around all of that stuff and just

experience it all with him and it was

kind of more again i said not

jealousy but i like saw i just saw that

opportunity there i was like

there must be something yeah i can do

even if it's like working for my brother

somehow doing something

god knows what it would have been but

like i knew i could have

kind of figured something out and just

conveniently

my brother like basically broke up with

his girlfriend

she moved out and he was like oh do you

want to come and live in london with me

i was like yes yes obviously i wouldn't

do that absolutely

so i made a deal with my brother because

he kind of knew he was like

i was always arming and hiring about

starting youtube

he was like well let's make a deal this

was the best deal

kind of much ever made in my life in a

way because i'll let you live in london

with me

rent free but you have to like you know

promise

your maker and put out a youtube video

once a week

every week just why did he say that to

you because i think he like

it just needed he needed to like

incentive for me that i

am like actively like working and i'm at

the same time i'm still trying to find

other work in london but it's like he

wanted me to

live with him like he did he did he kind

of like needed me to live with him in a

way

but at the same time yeah he didn't want

me just living there rent-free

sure living it up doing nothing

so yeah it was like a pretty good deal

and

very fortunately for me i couldn't

really pinpoint why but yeah my youtube

like

took off really really fast after about

kind of two months

of doing youtube i didn't really need to

find a job anymore i was making like

more than enough money

to kind of carry on and luckily he was

like really good friends with people

like

well and then so was i at this point

like casper joe sugg

all of these who were you know oh geez

oh geez

huge at this time so we all just kind of

started filming

you know every video like all together

is like a big group and then it just

like yeah really like blew up from there

so the golden days lucky yeah definitely

definitely the golden days

that's for sure bro yeah it was everyone

talks about those moments like alfie

does the same and

i know josh i've met him a few times

yeah it's fair to say it was so much

easier then

like i could sit at home and film some

weird game with my friends and get like

three million views

in like a week just off that one video

so it was just like wow now if i did

that it wouldn't yeah i wouldn't

do the same so this is when i got to the

point where i was like right i wanna

do like something different from all the

others i don't wanna come up the next

youtube idea i kind of wanna

break ground in terms of like

tv and and youtube tv

yeah your first experience on tv

mainstream tv

was that your celeb yeah how did you

feel you get the phone call

um i didn't think it was and i honestly

did not think i was gonna get on it

whatsoever but i was like let's

definitely go to that meeting you know

the whole thing of let's see

so they can see my face and they're like

we'd love to just chat to you about

something

you're going to need just called me in

flight a meeting

and i don't know what it was that day i

remember leaving the meeting thinking

either they're just like really nice and

good at acting all that one like so well

um i just like kind of felt like i was

on fire that day i

got in there like nothing to lose i was

like i'm not gonna get it but this will

be

you know i was more thinking cool maybe

next year

then the next one then i like will get

on if i carry on and do all this kind of

stuff was it an audition

it wasn't an audition it was just a

meeting you met like the

like the casting people i guess

and i know a few of my friends had also

met them i think like casper and stuff

had also met them

it was like two months i just had the

meeting i never told anyone for some

reason

like again like i said because i just

didn't think it was gonna happen

and then the boys oh yeah this like

meeting as well and i was like oh

oh well you went there then i was like

we got told like a couple of weeks ago

that uh you know it's not going to go

any further

but thanks for coming in and i was like

oh i haven't got that called i didn't

say i think

i'm pretty sure that hasn't happened

unless my manager hasn't told me or

something

and literally it's like the next day

they called oh we really want to meet

jack again

and i think i met them i can't really

remember me

this one was more just sort of like a

kind of how it all goes if i do do it

and literally like the next day

they're like cool we want jack to do it

can you do it i was like obviously

obviously i can do it i was so scared

though because i'm actually like

terrified of

bugs so i was so excited and i was like

this is it

could you you couldn't tell people for a

while right no i couldn't obviously i

did

but i was just like i think i was like

so scared i was like how

the hell has this happened but the one

thing i will say i didn't is and this is

like

bad obviously i did when i knew i was

doing it but i never actually really

watched the show before

obviously i completely knew what it was

but i didn't realize how big the show

was

i didn't realize at that time it was

arguably the biggest show

like in the country yeah between like

that like kind of

strictly things like they're all like

battling out for

number one so yeah i just kind of

prepared myself for it all like i said i

was

i was feeling great going into it i was

feeling like really good

how much notice did you get between

knowing where you were on the show i

think i actually knew for like

a while i must have known for like a

couple of months

i remember getting there and people like

i found out literally like a couple of

weeks ago really

i was i knew for like ages because i

said i guess they knew they were getting

youtuber on like

the end of the season before they're

like oh next year we need a youtuber or

something

so you flew to australia yeah i'd done

all my stuff i was feeling good

flew to australia and i was the first

one to get there

so i was there for a week like no phone

and i was an idiot because

i said i was in the jungle people were

telling me like oh did you not just

bring another phone and like hide it and

i was like

obviously i was too scared to do that so

i was like oh no they didn't do that

yeah everyone did all the other guests

they just had another phone with them

somewhere in their suitcase

so they were just like talking to a

friend i guess whatever like

no i didn't know who else was there at

the time but when i was in the camp

while they were in the jungle no no no

they were like in the like kind of

like the locked downy kind of thing

before you were shot in a hotel room

for a week and you didn't have to see

anyone

and you're like jet lagged as well but

luckily the lady who's looking after me

yeah she just i could not leave my room

without her being next to me but she was

really nice like we got along so well so

i was really happy with that

and every morning at breakfast she's

like oh you know another one's got here

and everyone's got here

and she wouldn't tell me who it was but

she'd give me clues and then i was like

oh

it was just annoying i was like i wonder

how my social media is going

again because that's just what my thing

was like an everyday thing for me i

posted every day i do all these things

it was so weird not checking it

i was like look let's make a deal i kind

of deal with you there was no deal in my

heart

not my mom but you know we do me a favor

just

have to don't say anything you just go

on my instagram and let me

look at like what's been uploaded and

let me just see it's going well and i

think at the time i was averaging like

40 to like 60 000 likes

so it's going like pretty well and then

she's like yeah but you can't look at

the comments or anything they might be

saying who's in there i was like deal

and i didn't actually look but i was

looking to my photos and i was getting

like 250 000 likes i was like

what and that's when i realized how big

the show was like

that moment i was like oh my god just

from being announced

yeah like it's just gone crazy and i was

thinking

you know maybe they're making a bit of a

like it probably is

causing debate like oh this youtuber is

he is celebrity is he not

and i was like welcoming that because i

was like let's get more people like

talking about me he gets my name out

there more

so that's when i was like oh my god this

is massive i need to win this

i need to i need to win this what was

your strategy because i've always

thought if i ever got into a reality tv

show i'd be like

how do i not be a prick like for me it

was just on it like

to be honest at that point i had like

no anxiety no stresses i was not

scared at all i wasn't even nervous like

nerves never hit me that was always one

of my strengths i found

so i was just yeah i was like confident

not so much coming down i'm gonna win

but i'm just so confident that

you know i know i can go in there and

come across like

fine i know i know i won't go on there

and be like a horrible

person or whatever that's just not who i

am so

yeah i was confident and went in there

first couple of days of filming with

everyone

just felt like great like so natural i

guess

i kind of knew what was going on a

little bit because we got partnered up

straight away and i was obviously the

youngest

i was the youngest person on there i was

the youngest guy and then toff was the

youngest girl

then we got partnered it was like the

people at home

voted who was together so i just kind of

saw where that was like going it was

like cool so they're trying to

do that kind of story so you're way

there

so i think to realize i think she's like

a very

smart girl i didn't ever play a

character it was like play the most

entertaining version of yourself the

whole time

i'm just like yeah kind of giving the

people what they want and i knew she was

doing the same

as well like she read into the situation

and i remember thinking i was like oh

it's going to be

it sounds really mean for the other

people on there but i was like i have

like a feeling maybe it's going to be

between like

me and her or i think we'll both do like

really well if we keep

as we're going just like little things

like you realize we were just maybe

saying the most like kind of jokes

between everyone and like we were maybe

the most like just

having the most like like fun with it a

lot of people were quite stressed and

stuff

but we're having like a lot of fun um

and then yeah obviously it took like a

massive

turn i don't know what you're talking

about

if you don't that's fine congratulations

yeah

no one knows they're going to say what

happened next

um i mean i don't think i'm allowed to

get

too into in terms of like what happened

but it's like in terms of

i won't tell anyone cause i was there

in the morning like super early i mean

it must have been like

6 a.m so i'm like 5 6 a.m

and there's like a rule like two people

always need to be in the camp at one

point and

they were calling the you know the

voices of

god the person on the microphone was

like calling people to go and do

something like oh you need to go down

there

i realized i was on my own and i was

like i swear this isn't allowed

but i was like oh well maybe you know

we've been in here

a few days now they're like loosening up

and whatever you know we're all adults

here i'm sure i'll be fine type thing

and say oh jack can you come to like the

medical hut

i was like okay and i had two things on

my mind

first being i had like a tick the day

before right

and so i was like oh maybe they're just

checking in on that or

this is like really depressing i was

like oh here we go because they always

in the show kind of pull someone to the

side and they have like kind of like a

secret mission-y type thing oh yeah they

do in the show there's always someone

who has to do something without anyone

else knowing

is this that oh maybe it's that so i was

like going there like really

quite excited intrigued and then i went

in there just like all the producers and

stuff

and i was like this doesn't look very

good i was like

what i was taking out with like no

explanation whatsoever i had no idea

you weren't given a next i was not told

for like

four hours i got taken out and the hotel

was like four hours away

and pretty much until i got my phone

which is the hotel which was that far

away

i didn't know anything they just said it

was like oh something online i was like

wow that

was really oh that narrows it down like

my whole life's online this is something

something

something i'm online i'm just thinking

like absolutely like worst case

scenarios of what could like possibly

happen to

a young guy on tv because i was thinking

all kinds of things

like it's weird like you're sitting

there thinking of things i know i've

never

done in my life but i'm like oh god

someone never said something yeah

someone said something or made something

up or i don't know you're just thinking

the worst

and you're panicking and then i mean it

was like the weirdest

you get back to your friend yeah i get

back to the hotel room

finally and i get my phone and my

phone's like

so crazy and then well i think like the

next day i realized they'd actually like

announce me being taken out before they

took me out

so like my i mean yeah everyone knew why

i'd left

but i didn't so i was seeing things on

my phone i was like what the hell

just like everyone was just like you

know i hope you're okay like i can't

believe this

and all that and i'm like oh my god i

don't know what to do i don't want to

look at it i'm like kind of standing in

my eyes closed like my phone's man

[Music]

i don't know what to do but two calls i

need to make here

i've got a call from my brother and then

like a thousand from my manager

so i call my manager and it's like

my manager lawyers the ceo

and everyone there's everyone of any

importance

in my life is on that call and yeah

let's find out you know this is

something that's been going on for like

nearly a week in the papers and stuff of

like

tweets and everything like this and

obviously i'm in there i don't have a

phone so i have no control i can't say

anything

how are you feeling then i was like

crying

i was like oh i was like all over the

place i was

i was just so frustrated that's what it

was i was

so frustrated and like angry why

i don't know i just felt this could have

all

some they were sitting on the like they

were sitting on this for

a while these tweets and stuff i just

know it because it was deleted

long before i went on this show like a

year before i even went on the show they

didn't exist anymore

because they were awful it was stupid

so i kind of got rid of them when i was

kind of coming up on youtube as i wanted

to first see my management made me do

that like cool let's go for everything

and lee anything you've said that is

just idiotic and i was like we should

definitely

definitely do that so i knew i'd had

twitter since i was like

15 14 or something so it didn't have to

get to the point where i was taken out

to then have to address it all i wish i

could have before

i even went on or after or or just after

kind of late

yeah like stuck with it and kind of adds

more drama to it

yeah it just made it look it made it

look worse

they said oh jack wanted to leave and

address it and i do feel like i did need

to address it as soon as possible

don't get me wrong but i mean yeah i

didn't say yeah i should

i should leave here and and

and address these things so just

frustrating and yeah so i spoke to my

management we kind of went over

everything and like

what happens now and it's like do you

want us to come

australia no i just want to come home

then

cause i was like although i knew i'd

done like bad things

how it was all handled like i had like

hatred at that point

at that moment in time anyway for the

people

that were involved like in the show that

were like near me but i said i was so

frustrated so i don't want to be here

no way i want to come home then if this

if this is it and i'm this is done

then i'm coming home what is the point

of me being here

right yeah might as well come home so oh

that was a range i was literally a

flight in like

three hours or something so i just like

legged it so yeah paul

yeah again i hadn't like looked at my

phone i hadn't looked at anything

and i opened whatsapp twitter instagram

like nothing

i still don't really know the extent

of what's happened and then like yeah i

called my brother

he was like speechless as well but he

could but again like he'd kind of been

i said it's been going on for a week so

he's been on the phone type

my management and stuff for like you

know days and days and days going

through all of this kind of

trying to help i don't know i don't know

really what they were asking him or how

he could kind of help but they were like

you know

they don't reach out to you don't say

anything don't comment on anything don't

do any of these things and he was like

trying to help in

whatever way he could did you worry that

it might have an impact on him

yeah when i spoke to him that was kind

of one of my

first thoughts to be honest i felt like

i just like [ __ ] it for everyone

like i said at this point i didn't

really know and then we were talking

about it he felt like you know this is

my time to shine and all of this it

could have been like

life-changing if i'd have like let's

just say i went on like one could have

been yeah

life-changing it was but

not in the right way and then he was

like have you looked online or anything

and i was like no i don't want to

i was like scared and he was like oh and

i think you should like have a look i

was like why he's like look just hang up

have a look online and stuff go on

twitter

so it did when i went online and twitter

to be honest like all i saw was like

support

for me because it was a thing of

everyone knew what i said was very

stupid very naive me like really bad

but you know people also knew

what i was gonna say people have kind of

been there themselves people understood

that okay yeah he was like

a kid at the time i was actually like

still in school and these things that

happened

it was before i had any kind of like

following i didn't want

you know the jack of today to be

you know known as the jack of like when

i was 15 i fully understand

this is like one of the conversations i

had with my mum i like accept when i was

like

15 16 whatever i wasn't a very nice like

kid i was pretty like

bad i was like kind of a naughty kid i

guess

so people like understood that you're an

idiot but at the same time

we feel kind of like sorry that this has

come back to like bite me on the ass you

know

like seven years later or something in

that moment when you go online and you

see everybody

like the world you know it must feel

like the world is ending to some degree

yeah

what are your thoughts about your future

in that moment and like oh

i thought that was it i was like that

that's it i was like my career

is over but i also wasn't thinking oh

what am i going to do

but i was just like i don't care about

what i'm going to do now but

i reckon that's it but then also when i

saw online and like the amount of

support

i mean it was like ridiculous it's like

trending number one like

twitter and all of these things but it

was just like huge in the amount of

celebrities that were like in my corner

or whatever you want to say

it's like very overwhelming the weirdest

one i saw was like katie hopkins i was

like

she was like oh don't worry jack you're

an angel compared to me because

obviously she was on the show and like

nothing

i was like that's not the person

i don't know behind you there's like

donald trump and katie hopkins

everyone was just very divided i think

it was a

to sum it up you know i apologize loads

of times on tv

on my youtube channel in like newspapers

and everything

what's the silver lining oh my god i

like to think i probably actually won't

go anything

won't go through anything as bad as that

ever again like

the toll it kind of took on me

like my mental health and everything but

that didn't kind of come until like

a year after because i think like i said

although i was very upset and

everything i kind of brushed it all

under the rug

type thing and just put on like a happy

face ah you know what whatever

kind of time to get on with it but me it

was like i've definitely learned

a lot from this like i know now what

is and like absolutely isn't like

acceptable and

how to like deal with those things and

like move forward and just how to face

horrendous situations like that and like

i said

hold my hand up and fully take

like the blame obviously but it was just

like

did you pick ptsd i think i read that

somewhere yeah so it was like

um so i've gone full

gun hoe on huel and from having you know

a little bit of an eye at the data

it seems that i'm not the only one in

times when we know that we're going to

get our lives back and we're potentially

going to be

having a great british summer rebound

there's a lot of people like me right

now that are piling in to heal

um i'm doing a few things i'm having

fuel i have at least

two or three heals a day of the ready to

drink berry flavor but i'm

also doing meal prep and so now my diet

is

fuel which is super convenient and it

makes sure that i'm hitting a lot of the

things in terms of like vitamins and

minerals that i'm not getting from my

other food

and my meals and for me that is the

perfect combination

did you pick ptsd i think i read that

somewhere yeah so it was like

um so like i said i wasn't facing it for

ages

and then like a year later or like 18

months later

yeah i just started feeling like awful

like really

anxious like all the time and like just

super like depressed but at the time i

didn't know

it was that i just felt really weird i

was like what the hell

is wrong with me i didn't even like go

for like dinner with my friends without

like wanting to like desperately leave

and i'm feeling like so uncomfortable

like

like my safe place was like at my home i

just wanted to be at home became like a

bit of an introvert because i didn't

want to

do anything it massively affected my

work in terms of i just couldn't

face going to any kind of like meetings

or anything doing any kind of

work it would like for me to do that i'd

literally have to like

i was like going through hell just to do

like just to go to like a meeting or

something i had no idea what it was

i was very quiet about it i never like

spoke to anyone

which was obviously making it worse and

then

how did it feel though in terms of it

was like it felt like a lack of

motivation

yeah it was just like i didn't want to

do anything i didn't want to have to

face doing those things i

basically now looking back and it had

like a complete loss of confidence i

kind of felt like i wasn't

good enough to do any of these things i

was like a shell of like my former self

like i said before i had like

nothing i was so excited to do that show

i was kind of going in there to win it

and everything whereas now

at that point if they asked me oh my god

even if i hadn't been on it type thing

before myself at the same they asked me

to probably have to be like i don't

think i can do it

because i don't think i've had it in me

to kind of push through

and then yeah eventually my friends kind

of clocked on like okay something's

really wrong and i think they kind of

knew it was my brother's been through it

before like really badly before me

it was like him and a few others and

things kind of like yeah like oh

sat me down and yeah it's kind of like

opened up

to everyone what did they notice

i was just like not myself like i said i

was

like one of them one of the main ones i

remember was on my friend josh's

birthday and i had this thing of like

because i knew i would always want to

like not go and leave these like

events or dinners or whatever i'd go

early

it's like 20 minutes early so i can kind

of get there they sit at the table

and just like calm down type thing

essentially i was having like an anxiety

attack pretty much like

once i got there when i was on the way

so i get there and i kind of get past it

and then

like get on with my night type thing and

hopefully feel a bit better

but most of the time i'd get there and

i'd leave before and i'd just text them

some weird excuse oh i've got to do this

ah this has come up sorry i've got to go

home

or i'd pretend like i never went oh yeah

no i'm just not feeling great not going

to come

so they were just like what the hell is

going on like and jack the jungle

yeah no like no way i was like the

life of the party in a way kind of thing

i was up for doing everything and

anything you could like

couldn't stop me type thing but take me

back to the intervention you said your

friends had like yesterday and sat you

down your brother had messaged you yeah

yeah so

i you know kind of explained it uh all

of them again i still kept it like

pretty

close friends and my manager because

she needed to understand i didn't want

to have to keep lying

basically i don't know i think because

she's been in the industry i think she

probably knew

what it was as well it's very common

and that's why i realized when i spoke

to my friends because they were just

like

basically yeah like you know it's very

like normal everyone like has it

because at the time i said i knew my

brother had it before what's it

just like anxiety like depression

like everything but i didn't i just

didn't want to

accept those things i didn't understand

i didn't i hadn't really done any

research i didn't really understand

when i spoke to my friends i then yeah

understood what it was

and although everyone's is very

different from different things and

and it's caused by different things like

different triggers or whatever

it's also like very much the same people

deal with it in different ways of course

but it is

it's like the same like feeling and

overwhelming feeling and stuff so when

they kind of explain that you know

they've all had it and

my brother was like really good with it

because i said he he'd had that anxiety

like really bad he's probably still like

he still does

i still do i don't you don't doesn't

just disappear but you learn

to to deal with it and yeah just having

that conversation

it's like cliche as it sounds just

talking to people about it made me feel

so much better like unexplainably better

so uh and then yes and then there was

just like kind of a

gap between of like nothing just kind of

same old probably doing a bit more work

but at the same time still wasn't

feeling great but i think it had kind of

like calmed down a bit and i'd figured

out little ways to deal with it

and then yeah sas

wanted me that was like what channel is

that uh channel four

channel four call you in there yeah yeah

i want jack to do you're up

sas i hadn't done any tv since when you

find out how do you feel

i was like terrified but i think i would

have it anyway

because like sas is a it's crazy

that is like the craziest show i mean

correct me if i'm wrong but i'd

probably say it's the hardest show there

is

like it is the hardest show there is to

do so i was just i remember thinking

like why do i always get these like

really hard shows why can't i just

go on like celeb juice or something like

that so i'm gonna sit there for the

evening

i was like okay what the hell am i going

to do here because

i just know in the back of my head i'm

thinking i'm saying yes all these things

i'm just

trying to do i'm like yes why not and

you know they

explained it to me as you know they were

pretty black and white about it like

this want this to be

like his big tv come back and all of

this

and i knew that was going to be

um a massive part of my storyline i was

like

oh god because i know i'm going to say

yes to do this and i'm going to want to

not do it i don't want to do it but you

can't

turn down something like this can't turn

down a show that big

so obviously i've said yes and i'm going

through with it

and then yeah kind of gets the point

where like

my anxiety and everything and like my

panic is like

i mean the worse it's ever been i didn't

even want to leave

my house and just yeah straight away my

manager's like i think it's time to see

a therapist where was this in terms of

the run-up to the show

um where it got the worst it's ever been

i'd say like two months before

the show started yes filmed in like

november okay

it was like yeah pretty like

september-ish it was like so bad

so i was like yeah i think you're right

i probably i probably should i've never

been to the therapist before so i was

anxious about that in itself which was

really weird

like speaking time i'm feeling like you

wanna like

feel like you're gonna want you want to

like die in this room because it's just

so

yeah i don't even know like what i was

thinking at the time to be honest with

you but

it was just horrible so yeah

being therapist like three four times a

week doing all this just trying to

like figure it out before on the show

and then she's just like yeah it sounds

like you've got

like ptsd basically and i was like what

other when i hear that i just think of

like the army yeah pretty much i was

like

yeah i think that's like quite dramatic

i was like i don't even feel like

qualified to be labels or something like

that because

i'm not getting like shot at somewhere

like yeah yeah how

then she just yeah like explained it to

me and

one of my like worst things was

basically it made me feel like

physically ill like i always feel like

i'd want to leave because it made me

feel like i was like throw up or

something like there and then i felt

like i was like

holding it but it was like yeah really

really bad like

you can't imagine like how bad it was

and then the best thing that she did was

she went this book it was called the

idiot brain and it explains

how your body reacts to the feeling of

like anxiety and like depression

and let you know the whole fight or

flight type thing and it basically just

completely broke it down

as to why i feel everything i do

whilst it's happening and that like

again

like i said when i spoke to my friends

it made me feel like oh just that one

thing yeah it was like the biggest way

and that was

it was the same kind of thing i was like

now i understand why these things are

happening

and it's not like what was the key thing

you took from that book in terms of just

like a basic principle it was

honestly this like the science behind it

yeah

it explained like the signals like your

brain

sending out to like your stomach and

stuff because it's like

it's a you're in a sense of panic it's

like imagine you walk around you're

about to get hit by a car

and you had like loads of adrenaline

type thing after just like that so it's

a massive sense of panic and your body

wants to like

get out of something get away from a

situation

they use examples from like the caveman

time so it's like your body is like

sensing danger though there is none and

this is kind of a whole problem with it

like nothing's really happening you're

just

scared of like nothing yeah you know

usually you do kind of get through it

and you're

it's like fine but past memories

relating it to trauma situations right

yeah so just like

yeah pretty much just like that's why it

was like a ptsd thing for me because

i felt in a similar situation

as when like the whole i'm a celeb thing

happened really

i said at the time i didn't even know if

it was that but when she kind of broke

it down to me

when do you think it will start and it

just made so much sense for it to be

because of that like it was all around

work

in like certain situations that all

similar to

to then because i'd kind of go to you

know say an event i just

yeah you'd feel like i'm known as the

kid you got kicked off mm-hmm i'm misled

anywhere i'd go that that would always

you know people would always be

kind of talking about it i honestly

before then i probably would not have

been able to do this and like there's a

high chance i'd have like cancelled

last minute like last minute because i'd

be like oh i can do it i can do it never

come to the time and i'll be like

no way i can't even like get in the car

and

drive here but it was just yeah and it

would explain

why yeah your body is literally feeling

that way and it's just because it was

like oh

it makes you feel incredibly nauseous

and stuff because your body is like

scared and tense in danger and things

you need to escape a situation

so it like your bod like the last thing

your body's worried about is like

digesting something

so i always had the singles i was like i

never wanted to eat when i was anxious

yeah i would not be thinking about

eating i wouldn't even get hungry though

yeah but i would just not eat anything

like the whole day i

lost like loads of weight from it as

well one of the most important quotes i

i i read in the book lost connections

was um

as a society we used to think that like

mental health disorders like ptsd and

anxiety depression were a consequence of

like

something broken in you yeah but in fact

everything you've described goes back

ten thousand years to like

savannah and africa are lines running at

me yeah i'm like i need my body to get

ready for me

yeah yeah and so there's there's nothing

the human body is working perfectly fine

in fact the most more important question

is like what's happened to you

and like cause yeah and that's and

that's where that's where my perspective

on mental health disorders shifted

because

i didn't believe that um when i looked

at the data and there's this huge rise

in mental health disorders yeah

and i know that like human beings aren't

evolving anymore we're not changing

anymore

so you think okay if there's a rise in

the the data what has changed to cause

that and then you think okay well the

only thing that's really fundamentally

changed is the world we live in

we start looking at the world we live in

and you say how how has that changed you

say well you know

15 years ago the average american would

say they had three people they could

turn to in a time of crisis they now

said they have zero

we're now living in these white walls

between our loan tapping screens we're

not speaking to friends

and all of these factors which are

conducive with like positive mental

health have now been slowly torn away i

mean the lock down is a great example of

like

extreme and then there was a study which

i talked about in my book where

if you get an animal and you put it in a

cage and you take away

um any uh companionship you take away

all other animals of its type

and you take away the ability for it to

exercise and you take away

anything that might give it stimulation

and then you give it the choice

of drinking heroin water or normal water

they all become drug addicts and uh if

you if you reintroduce like a running

wheel and another rat for it to be with

it doesn't it doesn't become a drug

addict it doesn't choose the hair and

water

and so what you're describing is like

the same as all the guests that have sat

here with me is there's

there's this key moment which is caused

trauma and that's um

and i think that's really empowering for

people to know that yeah you know it's

not

it's something that's happened right and

you can address it from that perspective

as opposed to just throwing drugs at it

thinking that something's broken

yeah but tell me about the therapy

process because i've not had therapy

before but i've always

i've always been intrigued by it at my

company we had a

therapist for all of our team members

yeah and i would definitely have therapy

i think i probably should

but what how was that process and did it

help um

it was like it was strange it may it did

make me feel

a lot better like i said for me i think

this is just who i am i think some

people love talking

about things and just getting it off

their chest and it helps them that way

for me it was just the understanding

once i understood it and

then like i said i figured out ways to

kind of deal with it as well i don't

think it ever goes away if you just

figure out ways to

to deal with it i think if i'd got an

uber here i'd have probably actually

been like more

nervous i don't think i wouldn't cancel

but i'm not at that level but i would

have still probably been a bit more like

how come kind of i don't know i think so

you're not doing it

for me i love being like distracted so

i'd always say like

like tiktok for instance is like the

perfect app for that i always found

because it was like it's really quick

and it's like funny and like it would

always like kind of put

it was always just really funny kind of

put me in a good mood it's like really

quick

so if i was in an uber i'd try and do

something like that or watch some like

youtube videos and just keep

my mind off kind of what i'm going to do

and jack before wouldn't didn't have

that

yet no way i'd have been honestly when

my brother

would like talk about like his anxieties

and like when he'd feel weird i wouldn't

want to come do anything i'd like

be like what are you talking about right

it was literally like just get over it

come on you'll be fine that was like the

classic thing like oh come on you'll be

fine like what could possibly go wrong

but in his mind he's like

listing all the things that go wrong

just you think of the worst case

scenario pretty much

so um yeah once i kind of understood it

a lot more

and had my reasons

like which helped me kind of get over it

a little bit

i then did kind of stop seeing her this

was all

very close like for sure the show i kind

of stopped once the show

started for instance um i haven't been

back since because i think

like i will happily say that like

at doing sas like saved me somehow it

gave me like a new

lease of life um not like i said not

saying it's gone away by any means but

i just a thing there of thinking i mean

if i can do

this and this being at like six o'clock

in the morning

jumping out of a helicopter backwards

into literally like

freezing cold water in the middle of

winter in scotland

i can definitely go and do a podcast or

something like that and that's kind of

like what i like lived by and i still

think of it sometimes i'm like oh my god

jack come on

when i was like at my and at that point

i was honestly at my absolute

worst like the night before as i got

there i got to scotland

and like the morning of i tried to like

pull out

they took again when we got there they

took our phones off because we baked

that you know just can't

we see everyone who's on the show so we

can't text people oh guess who's in the

show and then they like eat the stories

or whatever

he doesn't go out until maybe i was like

i kind of need like i can quit

yeah i need my phone call my manager i'm

not doing it

and the best thing that happened that

they took my phone otherwise i would

have

pulled out i guarantee it but um

they had like therapists on the show

that i would like i'd spoken

quite a bit before and i was very open

with them and they kind of knew

i mean everyone going on they definitely

had their struggles and they had their

their battles and i'm not saying mine's

worse than than anyone but i was

definitely like

very like vocal about mine and was said

i'm not saying it's worth anyone else's

but i was like this is the worst it's

ever been for me

like this is the worst i've ever been so

prepare yourselves for me to be like a

nightmare

and yeah like i said i didn't not i like

people say like i didn't get a second to

sleep

then i thought i literally didn't i just

sat there like seriously

like freaking freaking out and i was

just like what the hell am i gonna do

and i knew he had to leave at like nine

and like knocked my door like oh jack

like you ready

i was not ready i was like at least i

was like

i felt like crying i was like so

emotional i was all over the place it

was like really i'd never

been like so bad it was really weird i

felt like very uncontrollable

and i was like can i use your phone i

think i need to speak to the like

therapist guy i was on the phone tim for

about

two hours i del i'd push back the whole

first day of filming

so much but they were like like amazing

they were honestly like

so good because look realistically i

think they knew i wanted to do it i

probably was gonna do it

i was having a serious moment they also

knew that my

mental health was in like a really bad

place at the time they were amazingly

understanding and kind of

patient with me and um

yeah there was this kind of one one

woman there who was like

he'd be the exec or like a producer

maybe the exact producer but she was

like my

go-to my go-to girl and

she made me do it because i said i spoke

to the therapist for ages and i was

still a bit like oh god

he gave me that very good thing of like

you know one step at a time he's like

get ready

go downstairs see how you feel next step

you know

you're ready when you get in the car and

get to the location

and see how you feel and like and it was

like that was like again there were like

words of wisdom to me at that point

so i was like i'm not gonna be able to

do it so i'm just thinking to the end of

the show i'm like how the hell am i

gonna do seven days

like a month like no way yeah say he's

like you know it's like one step at a

time like break it down and that

helped me so much and then yeah i was

just kind of with her and that is such

good advice i think for anybody that's

listening that

i mean pretty much in all facets of life

whether you're trying to achieve

something great or you're trying to

overcome fear

yeah breaking it down into smaller

manageable pieces

makes it absolutely yeah it was like a

game changer for me

like those simple yes but it just helps

you think in a different way

so yeah i was just kind of talking to

them talking down and i definitely i

said like calm down i

was just like hey do you know what yeah

obviously do it jack i didn't want to do

it like these things

just the show's crazy i want to give it

a go

like you know that piece of me is still

in me like ah

i wish i if it was more like oh i wish i

still had it me to

kind of do that was that right let's go

and

and yeah just kind of got on with it had

like very highs and lows in there

every time we finished the task i'd feel

literally like on top of the world

like everyone in there you know you just

accomplished something i never thought

i'd be able to do especially like with

how i was feeling

then when we're kind of going to a task

that's when i'd have the thing of oh

i'm gonna i want to pull out i want to

like leave and in the show you that's

the kind of point

you pull out when you've kind of reached

your

your limit and for me definitely for me

a bigger part

although physically i mean it was just

hell

like it was how i got like so hurt doing

it like everywhere

but for me it was definitely a way

bigger mental battle and i think

probably everyone in there would say the

same

because you are thinking i don't need to

do this

it doesn't matter if i get to the end or

not it doesn't actually really make a

difference to me

i really hit my limit about god it was

like four days in

i think it's like a seven day thing it

was like the fourth day

mentally i was like drained but also

i was like so physically hurt and had

like one injury that was like really

annoying me

but and i'm thinking yeah cool i'm gonna

get to tomorrow and see how i feel

if it like still really hurts as i was

at that point where i couldn't like

run it's more like a fast limp like

and we got like halfway through that day

we just played a game called murderable

which you can imagine it's really fun

yeah which involves being like rugby

tackled by tony bellew and stuff like

that so

after that i was like i'm done

but the thing that like made me like a

lot happy about it one i got further

than i ever thought especially the days

before it further than i

ever thought i'd got like i never

thought in a million years when i feel

like that i could

be able to achieve those kind of things

and it really showed me like you know if

you just commit

it's gonna make me feel so much better

like afterwards

if i stick through and just persevere

and then

at the same time i was like well i've

left after like completing something so

it's kind of like a

it was like a good sign off for me i

didn't get something and be like ah no

thanks

i'm gonna go so i kind of i was like

look i'm just gonna

do this one tick this off and then yeah

it's probably time to go because i can

feel like when they're like die now like

everything's in so much pain

and i was just like yeah i mean beyond

exhausted so

and you could be proud of yourself at

that point honestly like i was so happy

with

how far i got it was like uh you know

kind of had to be there

moment when you're going through all

that to understand how hard it is to do

that for that long but

like two people get together two people

got to the end of the show

so i was like yeah i was so happy with

how far i got and that

really made me like feel like just so

much better and it kind of showed me

like you know

just physical exercise everything like

that is so good for your like mental

health and so i carried on running after

that and like training

really hard because in the build up i

was training like twice a day for like

two months

quick one starting from the minute the

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where are you at now in your life in

terms of career in terms of your mental

health in terms of

your personal situation yeah like mental

health i feel pretty good

like right now i definitely have my days

like about a month ago i had like

a weird week i was like trying to help

a friend who was going through it and

they but they well who would just

finally start talking about it and

didn't know

what was going on and i was just

explaining how it was with me

and it was like that was the first time

i spoke about it in like quite a while

so it just kind of made me

it just brings it all to just yeah

brings it service it made me feel a bit

like funny

for a few days but like to be honest

with you i think like i said a lot of my

problems were

when i was going to things and trying to

do something where i felt really like

uncomfortable kind of out of your

comfort zone

that's kind of a lockdown you just have

to be at home a lot so

i do definitely feel like comfortable

and i think it's been quite

good for my mental health and now when i

have the days where i go out and i've

got like you know

a day of like work or something i've got

to do loads of things i'm really happy

to kind of be out

sure and stuff so it's kind of like yeah

i think it's again are you nervous about

coming here

you're kind of releasing i wasn't you

know what i was nervous that i was gonna

get nervous about coming

so when it came to i was like oh i don't

want to get to the day and be like

yeah i don't i i feel a bit like weird

yeah i feel like honestly completely

fine like i said

i'd have you've probably heard no yeah i

would have problems

so i hear talking about lockdown i heard

you um

you got a little bit of relationship

over lockdown which is um

yeah seems a lot of a relationship yeah

we were talking about this before we

started recording yeah been with your

girlfriend now eight months how's that

going it's never easy it's going

incredibly well

to have a lockdown relationship yeah

it's definitely not

like easy having a lockdown relationship

but we also don't know

any anything else because we met like

the beginning of

last year what because we were neighbors

basically we were like

our apartments doors opposite each other

and i moved in

like the first week of march last year

so that's kind of like how we met

and she had a dog so there was lots of

dog walk dates basically

excuse me was it was it difficult

dating when you were um

really in your stride with youtube and

you had like i imagine you people were

stopping you a lot yeah stuff like that

and when you had the you know the stuff

on tv

yeah i didn't really date then to be

honest with you because

i'd like there was like two things one i

had in my hand of like you know i'm just

so

like focused on what i'm doing right now

and i

i didn't purposely not but i would i

didn't put much effort into you know it

wasn't really one of my priorities

whatsoever

and i was just having you know i was

enjoying i was like just living life i

was having so much fun

yeah and like all of my friends were

single as well so just i don't know just

didn't happen whatsoever there was no

need for me to do that but also my

brother got a girlfriend in his prime

of like his his career and i think he'd

you know be the first to say that it

i'm not saying this is for everyone at

all but my experience it like kind of

held him back not in terms of she held

him back but you know

just having a girlfriend you have

different priorities and different

focuses and stuff they're focusing on

their life

yeah so i just like didn't have any real

intentions what's been the upside of

having a partner

um because i'm a single guy so i'm like

asking i want you to pitch it to me

what's the

yeah people think people think are you

saying like it's so much happier

i feel i don't sound so like cringy but

i just feel like so much

happier i look at the days of when you

know

being single and like wanting to like go

out and do all these things and like

or like dating and stuff like i look at

it now like oh my god

so much like effort in a way where it's

now so like just fun and like

relaxing it's very nice to feel for

everyone listening to this but that

can't see him he's saying all this but

he's shaking his head

it's amazing definitely do it

but it's just like amazing being you

know so comfortable

with someone i think for me especially

that was like a massive thing because

i've been so uncomfortable in so many

situations

with like where i was at to then meet

someone and and be in those positions

where normally i would be

uncomfortable sounds kind of like cringy

but having her there makes me feel like

so much better without her even knowing

it just being with someone and whatever

makes you feel

you know so good and i've never had i've

never i've

actually never been in a relationship

really so this is kind of like my first

relationship

which i don't know if she likes or not

really you know if she likes it yeah so

as in like

the fact that it's my first relationship

sometimes she's like you know i wish

you'd maybe had a girlfriend before so

you'd know this or that and the other i

think she also likes the fact that

she's my first and why wouldn't someone

want to be you

um i think the main one i'd probably say

is there's like a lot of

pressure like but i'm the one putting

that pressure on myself no one's putting

pressure on me

but it's just a lot of like

self-pressure like i'm

in control of like everything i'm i said

it's a diary you're like ceo i'm like my

own boss i'm in control of everything i

do i'm in control of all my

finances like what comes in like what

goes out it's all just

kind of on me so if i stop you know it

all stops

if i work my hardest then you know

hopefully it kind of

pays off so it's just a lot of a lot of

pressure in terms of you know

wanting to keep going and like also

expand like taking like every

opportunity you can get that's why

you know i went from youtube and i did

radio and i was like i want to break

that barrier to tv and then i started

djing and

doing like music and going on tour and

all these things it was like just

grabbing every opportunity i can

to kind of grow as much as i possibly

can but it's

like exhausting it definitely takes a

toll and sometimes you do need to kind

of step

back but also like i said if i stop kind

of everything stops so taking a step

back is like

not possible yeah it's a bit of a risk

that carpet was it carpentry

yeah job you had when you were 16. just

sometimes you wish maybe

i'm like yeah because you know my dad

does fine for himself he's like three

kids and we've all turned out

like fine and we've all done well for

ourselves sometimes i feel like i would

be so much happier at that same time i'm

like

oh my god when i look back at some of

the things i've done in my life i'm like

that's amazing i'm like so proud of

myself for some of the things i've done

in the moment it felt pretty cool but

when i look back on it i'm like that was

like

huge and you're still so young yeah i'm

20 just

about yeah 26. taking all the pressure

off and i don't want to apply extra

pressure here

but when you look forward at your the

next i don't know 20 years of your life

how in your mind do you see that kind of

playing out i don't mean like i'm going

to be doing this exact thing but

like what are you looking for from life

um

i think i'm looking like being

completely honest with you it's kind of

like probably looking more into like

businesses and like business and having

like i said i've got my own like

production company right now that's

doing

probably way better than i thought it

was going to be doing at this point

which is good so like things like that

just growing it as much as i can and

you know kind of the classic i want to

be like a

boss and across so many things not that

i'm not working but you know

it's not like i've got a nine to five

type thing so it's kind of like

like i was doing youtube because i i

could kind of do whatever i wanted with

my days

but i knew i had to do likes kind of

things and and you know i'm still making