China is at war with the West already we

just don't see it and when I look at a

map like this I see a lot of problems

here is one issue over there Putin is

threatening nuclear weapons and then

this regime has been engaged in

assassination plots on the president

elect and then over here this is looming

right as a major issue who's the real

enemy of the West in your opinion I've

talked to a number of experts and their

take is is that how do you think this

ends

um EX CIA officer Mike Baker spent

decades in the field mastering the Spy

skills you need to achieve success in

business and everyday life and offers

unique insights into the looming

geopolitical threats that's facing the

West when you left the CIA you start

being a spy for companies why because in

its core the cia's responsibility is to

get intelligence because without that

you cannot make smart strategic

decisions and if you can sell the idea

to somebody that they should commit

treason on their country and betray

their family to gather intelligence and

Protect US National Security interests

then that's an incredible skill to use

in selling in business and there's a lot

of ways you can do this people are

capable of it more so than they realize

but there's a lot of similarities

between what I used to do in the Spy

world and what you do in business

there's targeting manipulation

psychology of how people think

identifying weaknesses and leverage how

they close the deal the most important

thing I took away was what I referred to

as getting off the X and that's how you

get companies to stay with you for 20

years let's go through all of them first

of all you start with

this has always blown my mind a little

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much

[Music]

Mike who are

you and give

me a couple of sentences on the Journey

of your career and what it's exposed you

to I'm a a dude who's been very

fortunate in life um I started with the

CIA uh at an early age not necessarily

expecting to start with the CIA and the

operations directorate and you you

joined the CIA at 22 years old

yeah basically um early ' 80s beginning

of the 80s what was your how did you

sort of encapsulate your mission into a

couple of sentences during that

time this is going to sound really weird

to do whatever I was instructed to do

um to further um the mission objectives

so and what I mean by that is that's not

just me or another officer or somebody

else in there that's their job so the

CIA doesn't set priorities it doesn't

set Set uh tasking right that's done by

the White House um and those in the

White House in the government at the

time the administration at the time for

setting the priorities tasking and

that's in part obviously Guided by

intelligence provided by the

intelligence community so it's it's a

symbiotic relationship but the tasking

comes into the agency and the agency

says Fine get on with it and that could

be collection of Intelligence on a

particular subject and so you could be

talking about we need to know what uh

Putin's plans and intentions are we need

to know what's the uh breakout time for

the Iranian regime to actually uh reach

uh weapons capability for the nuclear

program whatever the tasking is right it

comes into the agency the agency then

fine let's get busy with it and there's

other elements of the Intel Community

all working very hard to accomplish that

same thing so it could be the NSA is

also working on that it could be

military Ence is also working on that

there's there's a lot of moving Parts

but uh my part was was at the agency so

did you have to spend a lot of time

overseas and if so if you were overseas

what were you doing overseas yeah uh I

spent uh my entire time um I never had a

what you would call a headquarters tour

so I spent all my time overseas

traveling what was your day-to-day like

because it's just it's just a world so

far away from anything that I know so

I'm like you spend all that time in the

CIA overseas when you wake up in the

morning are you are you undercover

because if you're in a foreign country

presumably they don't know that you're

part of the CIA well no we have

different types of of operations and

different types of things I mean so you

can you could end up living in a in a

foreign country for two or three years

right you got a home there and you're

you know you're working there and and um

other times it could be a short one-off

operation where you're just dropping in

to do something in particular maybe to

meet an asset or whatever it might be

what's an asset an asset is a is a

source uh is a recruited source so um

that's a good point there's there's

misconception sometimes in vocabulary

right so they'll say CIA agent well in

reality it's a CIA officer the agent is

the person that's been recruited or the

asset um the the human source and so

that's and that's a that's a in

incredible skill right to be able to go

out you have to you have to identify

first of all you start with what's

what's the information you're looking

for and that's the fascinating thing

this it turns out that what I used to do

and what we do in in my business which

is you know intelligence and

investigations um Security Services is

pretty much the same thing what

information does the client in the cia's

case that's the US government what

information does the client need uh

where does it reside who has access to

it and how can you you get a hold of it

appropriately right so how can you get

that

information you identify the target then

you figure out you know what you need to

do to uh develop potentially a

relationship you develop that

relationship then you if you're

fortunate enough you recruit that asset

that person could be a deputy foreign

minister could be a senior military

officer could be could be a cab driver

you know who uh can tell you everything

that's happening in a particular

neighborhood of Interest whatever it

might be um but that process of that

that recruitment cycle um of the

spotting you know targeting development

recruitment running then you've got to

maintain that

relationship and the interesting thing

is um often times particularly when

you're talking about a

really a really important asset someone

who's in a position of

access um maybe because they've risen up

through their own government

right that that window from the minute

you get them on board you set the hook

you get them recruited and they start

reporting taking tasking that window

starts to

close and there's a clock that that's

ticking because usually that's a it can

be a corrosive thing on on a person's in

you know character right on on on their

on their their being right so you

recruit a you recruit a Russian right um

you're you're always in the back of your

mind thinking okay you you know how long

do we have here right before because it

it's unless they're a psychotic right

then then they don't care they don't

give a [ __ ] they they'll be happy to to

to do this but it's not a normal thing

right so to be able to convince somebody

to sell the idea to somebody that they

should uh they should um essentially

commit treason on their country right um

is is a remarkable thing I've always

felt anyway so then when I went into

business you know the idea of of

business development of selling seemed

like sure that's that's an easy lift

right because yeah that's anyway I'm

disappearing down a rabbit hole no

you're not I mean this is exactly the

rabbit hole that I wanted to go down

because I mean this is the D so I do

want to understand how you think about

selling because that seems like the

hardest thing to sell to get you know

potentially a Russian to commit treason

against their country I'm thinking God

what what are you offering them in in

terms of an

incentive um so would would your job in

that be to convince them or would it be

to go and meet them to collect the

information or would it be something

else could be all of those be all of

those and then part of it depends on

where what location I mean sometimes you

have you have difficult places obviously

it's more difficult to work in in um a

challenging environment like um pick a

place I mean right now current conf

think about working in Lebanon right if

you're developing or working with a

source I don't there's not a lot of

potential recruits forah right now they

don't even though there's Headroom they

don't I don't don't think there's a lot

of willing people wanting to take some

of those jobs but but the point being is

is uh that um you could end up doing all

of those things you might have spotted

somebody you might develop them you

might recruit them right and you're

going to handle them for a while uh

maybe then you're going to head off

someplace else and someone else is going

to come in and take over that

relationship that's also a crucial point

right because you know if you've

developed a a a personal relationship

with somebody uh to the point where

they're going yeah I guess I can't do

that I can't provide you with

Intelligence on this or that right

because think about they're not just

betraying they're not betraying their

country I've always thought about this

uh particularly when we're talking about

Traders here uh in the states right we

you you know edley Howard Jim Nicholson

right um who are these people Hansen

these are all traders to the US so um

moles whatever you want to call them

within the uh agency Hansen was a at the

FBI one of the most destructive Traders

we ever had but what did he do um he

interestingly enough um was a longtime

FBI agent who

um he was responsible for uh Counter

Intelligence to some degree uh for a big

degree uh related to the former Soviet

Union and Russia um and so he had a

tremendous amount of knowledge about how

the Russian service worked right and

then eventually he ended up uh allowing

he wasn't even recruited he offered his

services but he offered him in such a

way because he understood how they

worked that he was able to do it without

the Russians

knowing who he was right so it was a

very remote relationship and he trolled

it which is fascinating which allowed

him to then do this for a very long

period of time and and betray a number

of of uh of of our Russian assets and

those people didn't have a happy ending

and so uh but the the idea is that you

look at those people or you look at

anybody who does that right they're not

just portraying their country they're

betraying their their service they're

betraying their family all all these

things because it's a it's a fascinating

psychology and if you don't think about

that if you don't understand that then I

think it's hard to to close the deal

with anybody um what is that deal so in

the case of the gentleman you mentioned

who was a traitor to the US is he

getting paid is it money that they're

doing it was he was getting paid he had

some issues he was he was kind of a

quirky individual he was spending a lot

of money on a mistress or someone who

you imagined to be his mistress and um

motivation can be a difficult thing

right sometimes and sometimes it's a

very straightforward thing it's usually

not ideology interesting yeah I know

that that I had the same thought when

when I first started and and they kind

of went through this process of saying

what are motivations well money is a big

one so you've got you know and then

ideology not so much uh sometimes it

could be something as simple as they've

got a sick kid they can't get treatment

for the kid in whatever country they

happen to reside in sometimes

it's it's it's more based than that just

they they don't feel like they got

enough hugs from their employer or they

feel disrespected by their their their

their their government or whatever you

you have to be able to identify those

weaknesses and then you have to be

willing to to play on them frankly and

so on the point of identification if you

met me and I was an asset is that that's

the word right um you would be I mean

you know if we had just met yeah you

would you would be a potential a

potential Source Target uh velopmental

okay so I've got I'm a cab driver and I

drive a high ranking official and every

day in the car he's telling me

everything that's going on he's just

offloading so you want to recruit me

right yeah so how' you go about

recruiting me well theoretically it's

it's just going to be I'm going to find

something that you're interested in how

and then I'm going to be a conversation

it's as simple as that so you might get

in my cab one day yeah and then I'll

I'll just get in your cab and we'll

start talking

and people love this you I mean you're

probably on planes as much as I am um

people love to talk right and they love

to talk about themselves right so if you

get if if you just ask questions right

if that's all you do you don't have to

say anything about yourself right I

don't know how many thousands of

conversations I've had where you know

someone says so what are you doing I

said just you know I'll give them some

[ __ ] I mean not now but and as soon

as you give them something that doesn't

sound interesting

then fine now you got a A Runway then

you just turn it on onto them and say so

what do you do people want to talk about

themselves it's it's it's striking

sometimes and I mean we find this all

the time and it's just information

gathering right like if we if we have a

client and they say uh we've got a a

business

in pickup Place let's just just for

grins let's say China we've got an

investment that we've made in China but

it doesn't it's not sense right we're

not seeing what we thought we were going

to see from the revenues or from the the

the production whatever what's going on

well if we have someone Rock up at that

factory or that manufacturing facility

or whatever and outside there outside

the factory is just rows of of noodle

shops or whatever you know food trucks

or whatever you want to call but there's

a maybe there's a security guard or you

know some people just sitting around

they love to talk right because they've

got nothing else going on in their day

right and so the information you can get

from people whether it's a security

guard sitting in a booth all day long

who's suddenly going to tell you well no

the plant is only up and operating

Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays or you

know this is this is the number of

trucks that are coming out you know

little benign stuff that that no one's

going to think anything of the amount of

information you can gather from people

um maybe it's someone who's working as a

cleaner in a building maybe it's a cab

driver it doesn't matter um you know

it's it's a secretary in a business

right you're you're looking for people

with access who um they're just going to

be inclined to talk right it it sounds

odd sometimes but you get that

conversation going you find things that

the person's interested in then you

start mirroring that perhaps maybe that

oh you know I'm interested in that too

maybe I'm not maybe I find it boring as

hell there was one where it was like

chess I was like God damn I hate chess

but but the guy was really into chess

right and uh it was overseas and and uh

we were drinking and bumped into him at

the bar and and uh you know we started

talking and turns out that his his

passion was chess suddenly my passion is

chess problem is you got to demonstrate

that right and I sucked at it so so it

was a quick a quick uh crash course in

how to at least make myself look

somewhat reasonable um but then and then

you're just looking for other points of

of of of access and and what that turns

into is points of

Leverage so that sounds you know if once

you take it further enough down the the

the the walk it can sound very mercenary

right and it is you're talking about

again asking people to do something

that's not necessarily in their best

interests but you're doing it for a very

stated purpose now again a lot of people

will listen to this and go that's just

[ __ ] you're just doing it for the

man right you're doing it for the the

government and okay well you know what

nations that are hostile to us interests

or UK's interests or Australia's

interest or Canada's interest or

Europe's interest they're doing this all

the time and they're doing it a lot more

aggressively and with no guard rails

about how they behave right

so yeah yeah so I'm that cab driver I've

started off loading to because you've

got me talking you've told me your you

know you've said your career is not

interesting I start talking at what

point do you

seek out that leverage so at some point

you're looking for him to maybe say his

son's sick or something right well I

mean yeah something along those lines or

you're just looking for you're looking

for

um you're building a profile of the

person's personality right so you're

trying to understand what's important to

them you're trying to understand what

drives them you're trying to understand

where their problems are you know uh

you're trying to understand if they have

any grievances you're looking for you're

really just building a a a a map of what

this P person is like you're not going

to get that in one taxi ride oh no no no

not at all not at all so what do you

want to do you want to you want to have

a you want to have a reason to uh uh

meet up again right you're always

looking in simple terms you know you get

that first encounter what do you want

well you want a second encounter so you

got to find some reason for that now

sometimes it's easier than other times

right like so you know you can't uh uh

you know you can't always get that but

that's what you're looking for another

reason to meet back up with that

individual seemingly just for no reason

it just happens right or or

uh I mean it's like this morning I got

in a car right um was an

Uber and at the end of the the uh the

drive the guy gives me his card says uh

hey you know if if you ever need a ride

whatever um you know I've got a couple

of cars and so I you know this is kind

of what I do plus I do the draw Uber I

like that as

well um and so now yeah fine I can give

him a call back right and and I've done

that overseas in cases where I've said

look I you know I need to know that I

can get from point A to point B tomorrow

can I just call you rather than hope

that I catch a cab there's a lot of ways

you can do this it's not it's not rocket

science you know but it can be

um it can be uh difficult when you're

talking about a high value Target yeah

yeah yeah cab driver is probably a

little bit more straightforward because

there's a clear reason why you'd

frequent the the Pres but maybe the head

of the Iranian nuclear program might be

a little bit more complicated

to although that would be good too um

yeah so your training they they they

find you at 22 years old I hear what do

they train you to be good at there's

everything from um tradecraft which is a

key part of it and tradecraft

encompasses a lot of things right it's

it's how do you conduct yourself

overseas how do you do clandestine

Communications um how' you go cover how

do you go undercover um use of Disguise

uh there's surveillance counter

surveillance uh there's there's a lot to

when I just say tradecraft what that

involves um and then there's other

training there's paramilitary training

and and other things that you do what

about people skills what are the people

skills they try and teach you there's a

lot of talking about um um the

psychology of the recruitment process uh

which means you're diving into you know

profiling individuals the psychology of

of how people think um what that process

does to an individual I mean and and

there's um it's interesting I mean

there's there's there's some folks who

who I think struggled with that more

than others and I think the idea of of

of of getting people to that point of

recruiting people I think some folks I

think found

it uh difficult

maybe problematic right because of of

the manipulation involved

um you know I I I didn't I again not

necessarily being a deep thinker I

didn't sit a lot of the time you know at

home angst ridden over you know whether

I was being manipulative or not I was

just I have a task I'm going to do the

task and and and then move on but um the

training can take quite a while can a

couple of years uh before they feel like

you're ready to to go out so you

eventually leave the

CIA um after a very very long career

there why did you

leave my daughter was young and um uh I

was in the process of uh of getting a

divorce uh which took a while my ex-wife

great person but not compatible by the

end I think I my career was a little

difficult um and so I needed to do

something that kept

me closer to home you started doing

corporate Espionage

thereafter we call it we call it

strategic intelligence and

investigations okay so for someone that

doesn't know what strategic intelligence

and investigations corporate Espionage

is it's effectively being a spy for

companies it could be there could be an

element of that yes I'm not gonna I'm

not going to deny that look it's it

there are corporations out there that

are very aggressive in understanding

what other companies are doing right in

particular um but what we got started in

um was

primarily a company will come to you and

say we're making an investment

in a country we've never operated in

before pick a country um tell us

everything we need to know what what are

the problems what are the risks what are

the threats what are you know how do you

assess that uh it could be we've had a

fraud we've had a and and and now we've

had theft of intellectual property we

need to know how bad it is um it could

be we're doing a joint venture and we

just need to know about who we're

investing in right you never know it

could be that they're saying look we're

we're not having any success in maybe

they're in the mining sector we're not

having any success in Africa where we're

trying to pick up these licenses and yet

these other companies are picking them

up left and right what are we doing

wrong what are they doing right who are

they dealing with so now we're getting

closer to what you referred to as

corporate

Espionage

um but you have to because you're not

working for a government you know the

the guard rails have now shrunk right in

terms of what you can do and so you have

to know what is uh legally appropriate

in each jurisdiction and that changes

right what you can do over here is

different than what you could do in the

UK or in France or in the US or whatever

so as long as you know what the

parameters are um then you you you do

that right to gather information that's

going to benefit the client did you have

to go undercover terms of physical

disguises yeah yeah on on occasion which

was great yeah I mean if you like if you

I I love the acting part of it right

because you you'd be you'd be I would

get completely absorbed in it right and

then uh and I I loved it so I I didn't

have a problem sometimes people don't

enjoy it or they don't it's it's not if

you if you're not confident if you don't

have if you're put on a disguise whether

it's a full overhead mask or whether

it's just you know disguised kid or

whatever uh if you're not comfortable

doing that it'll show out right but if

you're walking down the street in

Disguise nobody on that street is

thinking oh that guy's in Disguise it's

not how people think right so unless you

do something stupid it's not going to

show out did you ever wear a Masque yeah

yeah that's apris look we had Hollywood

makeup artists uh there that I mean

their their disguise unit is legendary

amazing what they can do yeah why did

you write company rules I felt like for

me over a short period of time after I'd

been involved in private sector for for

quite a

while it suddenly occurred to me that I

was the reason why we were able to keep

a business breathing was because of some

of these things that I absorbed from the

company right the these rules the and

it's not like there a book they don't

hand you a book and say Here's your

company rules on day one right it's

they're implied they're they're kind of

embedded in the training process of the

CIA of the CIA right and so what I

hadn't realized was I because I thought

when I got out look people asked me when

I said I was going to leave I I didn't

retire I was too young to retire I was

leaving right I left behind my pension

and everything I didn't have there was

no Financial reason to do what I did and

um so they were their question was

always the same which what the hell you

going to

do I I didn't have an answer which

probably should have been a red flag but

um I knew I was going to have to go into

kind of this world of gathering

information of Security

Services because I I don't think I'd fit

anywhere else and so it took me a long

time to realize that the reason why I

was able to build a business and I

couldn't have built a business with a

very very close friend of mine uh Nick

day who came out of of uh um SPS and and

uh

MI5

um but we couldn't have done that if I

hadn't absorbed some of that training

and those rules as I put them from the

agency and so that's why I wanted to try

to say look this is why I was able to do

this um and keep a business breathing

look we haven't built a mega Corporation

but we built a nice life for a lot of

people right and what are the most sort

of transferable rules that you were able

to transfer from your time as a CI

working in the CIA to the world of

business that you were like oh my God

this is exactly the same game here the

same technique I mean first and foremost

it was um we'll start out with the first

one that I put down which which is

Define the mission right so the agency

does that very well with a very outset

you spend a lot of time sitting in

classrooms listening to people explain

how the agency works why it works the

way it does where it fits within the

government what its purpose what it's

what its mission is and if you don't

know that right then whether it's the

CIA or whether it's your business then

you got a problem you probably shouldn't

really get started and then you have to

communicate that mission and that's what

they did very very well and so I took

that away and I was always very simpl

minded in terms of a business I always

knew what I wanted to do which was

provide again the best quality product

possible that's how you get companies to

stay with you for 20 years right they

know you're going to bust your ass and

you're going to overproduce and you're

going to do everything within again

within the balance of what you can do to

give them the best information so that

they can then win in whatever they're

working or operating and then we we you

know I think if you if you hire smart

people um and you explain the mission

you communicate that properly to

them then you know your battles

half one right you really you know you

you you've cracked that that uh that nut

but then other parts of it are uh you've

got to know your uh your risk appetite

and the agency spends a lot of time I

guess that was my point from earlier is

it a lot of people think the agency just

goes out and does [ __ ] right let's just

go blow that building up or let's go

pick up that high value Target or let's

go whatever it is we're going to do and

they don't give any thought to it

because that's how the movies operate

right and they just yeah go do this [ __ ]

um

there's a lot of time spent on risk

versus gain um and what's the potential

blowback what are those scenarios look

like so you have to know your risk

appetite and you have to communicate

that because everybody has to be on the

same page as to what's allowable and

what's not allowable and that's true in

in in in private sector as well we have

to know you can't do this you can't have

a a one party conversation and record it

in particular jurisdiction or you know

no you can't can't do the following

because the information you're Gathering

is end up in court it's got to be you

know evidentially proper so things have

to be done in a in a in an appropriate

way so if you don't know all those

things then you're going to get yourself

you know crosswise somehow um know your

operating environment is a key thing uh

this is a a constant surprise sometimes

with with some companies that we start

working with where you realize that they

don't necessarily understand the

operating environment they where they're

working what the market rest

restrictions are what their competitors

are doing right what the uh the

government is like in that particular

country what the instability issues are

what whatever it may be you put all that

together you know your operating

environment you know your your risk uh

you defined your mission and then at

some point you got

to um make decisions right and I think

that's again long-winded answer to your

question which is probably the most

important thing I took away was uh what

I referred to as getting off the a and

the a is the Ambush site so in in the

old days you don't want to end up on the

Ambush site that's a bad place to be um

and there are indicators right whether

you're talking about being in in Mexico

and rolling up on a cartel Ambush or

you're talking about being overseas uh

in a place like U Iraq and you're in a

convoy movement and you have to

understand what the indicators are that

something bad is is going to happen if

you don't make a

decision you're never going to get all

the information you want in business

right but there are a lot of people who

get paralyzed by that they want all the

data you know they want to be able to

think through and that's you know that's

a good thing if that's your mindset but

something bad's going to happen or

you're going to miss an opportunity it's

going to pass you by and so one of the

things that the agency taught was just

make a damn decision right with the

information that you've got you're

always going to want more but with the

information that you've got whether it's

imperfect or not understand the nature

of that information but then just make a

damn decision right how do they get you

to do that because there's a lot of

people listening now that are maybe

paralyzed in their own personal lives

with a decision to leave a job to leave

a city to leave a partner yeah you know

or a big strategic decision that's

actually really good it's a good point

yeah

uh I

I the agency teaches you through sort of

repetition and and uh and understanding

that would sorry you waited too long

this is this is not good you

you uh but in a in a better sense I

think what I've learned also is look I

tell my kids this all the time um I tell

my boys and my daughter this is

it there's never that many options on

the decision tree right not that life's

completely binary but we tend to

overthink everything and we tend to over

complicate things when we're faced with

a decision whether it's do I leave my my

job uh do I move whatever it might be do

I you know take a big strategic decision

for my company you tend to you tend to

over complicate right life I I've always

found and maybe maybe I'm simple-minded

but one of the things that I I took away

from the agency is that life sometimes

is just as simple as it seems right

again why I'm not a big conspiracy theor

theorist but um so if you narrow it down

and say look I'm not faced with an

endless array of options here you know I

may have on any big decision I may have

two or three options right I'm going to

take this job okay what does that mean

well it means I'm taking a chance take

okay people talk about writing your

positives and your negatives down I

don't know whether that's really a

helpful thing or not right because then

you get lost in this list and then you

start imagining positives and negatives

and then it's a so I always try to say

look you gotta you don't act just for

the sake of acting right that's

sometimes has its own negative

consequences but you you take the

information you've got and then

you just you you make a decision right

because if you again if it's the inertia

of not acting if you're if you're in an

unhappy relationship and you say you

know what do I do do I stay in this

unhappy relationship because maybe it's

going to get better okay what are the

odds of that happening right it's been

going on for 10 years maybe you're not

happy get the hell out right do

something different if you're thinking

about changing your job if you're not

happy in your job which is a it's a

quality of life issue right I and I tell

that to to my folks all the time if you

think you would be happier somewhere

else you got to go give it a try if you

think you'd be happier going out and

starting a business you should do that

right but you got to you got to jump in

and I know I'm I'm this is probably not

as detailed as a you know psychiatrist

would give but I really do honestly

believe that any any major decision you

can distill it down to a very very

limited number of options and that makes

it easier but if you just sit there

staring at it and people do I would see

the this in operations all the time

people would just start imagining all

the different scenarios and I thought

you know what honest to God when the the

when the whistle goes right and the

Ambush starts and usually you shouldn't

start an ambush with a whistle um you

know it's going to go you know one way

another way you don't

don't don't don't get bogged down in

what could happen What might happen that

was another thing I think I I did well

at the agency was I didn't ever sit

around and stare at my belly button and

think well I wonder what would have

happened if I had done this no you live

with your mistakes you live with your

consequences you live with the good

things life is tough enough as it is

right and we just we just seem like we

want to make it tougher and I don't ever

understand that it's an interesting time

in the United States at the

moment is it something happen yeah I

mean it's an interesting time in the

world to be honest when you think about

everything that's going on very very

unique times but Trump has just been

elected he's now president

president-elect of the United

States is that

consequential and if so how would you

believe it to be

consequential yeah uh what do they say

don't talk about politics religion or

taxes um so yes I think it is

consequential um I think it was

something that uh very few people

predicted the the size of the of the

victory uh look he um he took all the

swing States right um he turned uh a

surprising number of of districts uh in

favor of the Republicans in states that

he didn't win um he outperformed in most

categories right uh the demographics

were rather shocking right and people

wanted to talk about how well it's going

to be the it's going to come down to the

Women Voters well it didn't right fewer

Women Voters voted for kamla Harris they

did previously for Hillary Clinton and

Joe Biden right so and he gained in uh

in Suburban voters Women Voters so it's

consequential in reshaping at least in

in the short to midterm people's

understanding of the uh the electorate I

think now it's probably not

consequential in the fact that I don't

know that the Democrats they don't seem

to be doing it yet I don't think they're

going to be particularly uh

uh self-aware or introspective right

they spent months longer than that

referring to a large portion of the

population as uh as moronic as

unintelligent as sexist as racist as um

as as garbage as fascists as Nazis right

they you how you do that and then

not understand how you've just gotten

kicked in the ass during the election

I'm not quite sure but they seem

incapable right now of any sort of

reflection on what they need to do as a

party right to maybe turn things around

so I don't know consequentially whether

it's going to change the Democrat Party

for the next election um but yeah it'll

be and and then you have to ask yourself

okay the policies that you know that

that are important um from National

Security perspective from foreign policy

you know what are we looking at

differently here with Trump coming in do

do you think he's going to end some Wars

like the war in the Ukraine and Russia

do you think he's going to end that

because I mean he's he's pretty much

said in the election cycle that he was

gonna call Putin an end it on day one or

something like that

so I yeah that's right I forgot about

that it's gonna end it on day one gonna

stop this war

um yeah

with set Trump over here to the side for

a second M and you have to look at the

what's happening on the ground right

with Ukraine and Russia because that

will determine whether Trump's going to

be successful in any move that he makes

so the problem that Ukraine is facing

right now is a they're going into winter

and

a massive percentage of their uh energy

infrastructure has been destroyed by by

Russia so it's going to be a very hard

winter um you look at the resolve of the

Ukrainian people

and

uh an Institute in ke does these very

interesting um surveys of Ukrainian

citizens in in in throughout Ukraine not

just in Kei on a regular basis and they

ask questions like you know um are you

willing to fight indefinitely are you

willing to stay in the game are you

willing to give it your all you know for

however long it takes and to that

question to that phrasing

at the beginning of the year 73% said

yes right of the

citizenry uh last month it was uh

63% right it's and so that's a 10% drop

is significant when we're talking about

the fate of your nation um

they they're

losing um they're losing soldiers at an

alarming rate and they have a

significant uh disadvantage to the

Russians terms of Manpower Russian

Manpower has depending on who you talk

to maybe a three to1 advantage in terms

of available

combatants

um the Russian military is gaining

ground in the eastern part of Ukraine in

theet in particular it's a the the the

front the front line is about 600 miles

long 620 miles

long um

in overall right now if you said stop

the war stop the fighting right now

Russia controls 20% of Ukraine good time

to my little map here so you can show me

what you're talking

about why why did Russia start this

war well I mean if you if you wanted a

sort of a theoretical 30,000 foot answer

um

Putin has

repeatedly uh referred to the collapse

of the Soviet Union as the greatest

disaster of the 20th century and he

meant it right and so he's been trying

and he hasn't been shy about it ever

since he's he's been in charge which

seems now like about 100 years um to

recreate the glory the strength of the

former Soviet Union in some capacity not

not you know entirely he's not he's not

crazy but

he is completely jonesing for some form

of of a of a stronger Russia um and in

his mind that means he's got to have a

buffer zone between him and NATO right

and so this is this is part of that he

also considers if you if you think about

it right

here he's basically

saying this is mine right if you think

that which is the east of this is this

is the Eastern part of Ukraine right

here is it's Ukraine um Front Line This

is not I mean you know I'm simplifying

this but front line stretches about 600

miles uh he's also annexed of course

Crimea but that's that's another issue

here and that's that's the only port for

their Black Sea Fleet which Ukrainian

military is frankly destroyed almost um

at this stage of the game but they own

at this stage they've got about

20% of of uh Ukraine if you were to say

you know stop the shooting now

and then the the the problem is that at

the outset of this this

war zalinski and the Ukrainian

government uh said you know the only

answer here is total Victory we have to

get all our territory back

Crimea detet Lans zapia uh we have to

get it all back and that is not again

it's not satisfying to say this but it's

not possible right so the problem that

is being faced right now

is when this war got started in the

first year year and a half everybody was

you know they were putting their Flags

Ukrainian flags on their porch they were

putting a little flag on their their X

site their Twitter site um they go okay

and there's no doubt the Ukrainian

military has been incredibly courageous

and the population of Ukraine has put up

with a great deal look the months of

September and October of this

year those two months there's only been

one night when keev hasn't been under

attack by Russian drones

right which is if you think about it

it's insane right and that's just Kei

they all their other their major cities

have also been under attack by the

Russians they've destroyed much of their

energy infrastructure um now a bright

spot was for for the Ukrainian military

was that they did a surprise offensive

into KK which is Russian territory and

in doing that that was the first time

there were foreign troops on Russian

Turf right since World War II um and

that really shocked the hell out of

Putin and and the Russian military and

they acted as if they really didn't know

how to resp respond didn't have the

resources to respond but this is a game

of attrition right we're going into our

you know full third year early this

coming year um

and what's kept them in the fight is US

support and EU or NATO support the eu's

done very good job I mean look they've

they've picked up uh a great part of the

of the the uh the

effort without that support this thing

would never have lasted lasted this long

never and so I think Putin in part has

been very surprised he miscalculated a

lot of things but he miscalculated the

sort of support that Ukraine would

receive from nato in particular um

and now and why is NATO giving so much

support why is this in their interests

well think about where Ukraine is yeah

think about where Poland is look Russian

missiles have flown errantly into into

Poland um their history tells them or

informs them that if Putin takes this

Ukraine yeah it takes Ukraine then it's

not as if he's going to say okay I'm

done I'm finished right they believe now

whether they're right or not this is but

this answers the question about why such

strong NATO support they believe that

that's not his inclination right it's

not in his his character to say that's

all I want I'm good what do you think I

take him at his word when he says he

wants to recreate the former Soviet

Union in a fashion do I think this is

enough of a buffer from NATO for him I

don't think so do I think he might uh

consider moving a little bit further

north look he already has this is

Belarus bellus is a solid Ally of uh of

Putin um but is there a chance that you

know he says to himself well well you

know maybe over here he's already made

verbal threats up here so L Latvia yeah

and so I I think I understand what their

mindset is it's like Israel right we

sometimes we like oh my God why is

Israel acting the way they do well

because they're surrounded by a ring of

terrorist proxy that all are there to

serve the purpose of the Iranian regime

which is to destroy Israel so that's

their mindset right we don't live there

we don't understand it so to say okay

well that's ridiculous for someone in

the US to go it's ridiculous that that's

Putin okay you know well [ __ ] off you

don't live here right you're not in

Poland watching this if he takes over

Ukraine and so and world wasn't so long

ago exactly it wasn't until I studied

World War II which actually wasn't very

long ago it was about 6 months ago that

I understood the sort of geopolitical

backdrop as to why you need to defend

Ukraine because when you see you can

probably explain it better than me but

what Hitler did and he just took a

little bit was it like Czechoslovakia

just a little bit take this piece and a

little bit more and then he took a

little bit more and then a little bit

more and by by the end of it he was

trying to take the UK he was trying to

take Russia he was trying to take the

lot over here in the states right you

had this isolationist feeling so World

War II is happening um and they don't

want any of it right they've went

through World War I they sent a lot of

their boys over and they're like no

screw it you know look we got this big

ocean here you know we don't have to

worry about it and yeah that that was

that's a problem and but you see that

now there's some of this this

isolationist attitude which is why do we

even care and that's a okay fine that's

a great question to ask people should

ask questions like that but um yeah I'm

telling you having having worked against

Russia for for a long period of time U

it's a mistake not to take Putin at his

word right and and we tend to always

mirror our values it's like when we were

talking about the cab driver how do you

get him into a conversation you start to

mirror the values right and we do that

as a nation sometimes in the us where we

imagine that people are going to react

the same way or think the same way about

Freedom or democracy what and and it's

not how the world works so I just going

back here to to the incursion into um

into Russia that the Ukrainian military

did so they they've hold they're holding

territory up there maybe it depends on

who you talk to maybe um 500 square

miles it's it varies but they've

stretched their resources relatively

thin and that's a problem because it all

goes back to War as long as we've known

war which is supply lines right if you

if you can't maintain your supply lines

you you've you know lost the plot and so

what we're seeing right now is Putin has

amassed about 40,000 Russian troops and

about 10,000 North Korean troops and

that's another that's another story so

North North Korea because Kim Jong-un of

North Korea is best buddies now with

Putin he has sent upwards of 12,000

troops to Russia and they are now on the

front lines essentially they're already

in combat but they're an important part

of of of Putin's effort and I I think

what he's trying to

do Trump has won takes us back to our

original point of okay what's Trump

going to do and what's this going to

look like after the uh

inauguration Trump's one I think there's

a calculation here Putin could be saying

I've got to do everything now I've got

to throw everything I can to gain that

Russian territory back before sitting

down at a negotiating table and coming

up with a deal I don't want to sit at

the negotiating table if zinski and NATO

are saying we have part of your Russian

territory you want it back well we're

going to need we're going to need this

back we're going to need eastern Ukraine

back or we're going to need Crimea back

I don't think he's ever given back

Crimea right but it's likely I think if

you have to make these decisions and

without real insight into his mindset um

it's it's true it's all speculation but

I I wouldn't be surprised if what he's

calculated right now is I got to throw

all these troops to re gain this Russian

territory the ukrainians surprised Us by

taking ahead of sitting down and doing a

negotiated settlement which again is

going to be very unsatisfying to all

those people who put Ukrainian flags on

their porch and oh they're going to get

all their territory back no they're not

they don't have the ability to do that

and and I hope that what we don't see is

if Trump well when Trump comes into

office um I think he and the people that

he will have around him working on this

issue will be sufficiently convinced

that they have to maintain a level of

support that allows Ukraine to sit down

at the negotiating table from at least a

position of relative strength right um

otherwise they're just sitting and

they're asking you know for whatever

they can get in this deal and that's not

that's never going to sell zelinsky's

got to sell this to the the Ukrainian

population this is an incredible moment

in time right this is this is an

invading this is this is an invading

force from Russia into another country

an independent country

um and there's there there's so much

complexity it's hard to explain and you

know without saying okay we're going to

take the next five or six days to talk

about it but it's an incredible moment

in time and so yes it matters a great

deal about you know is this

consequential it's consequential if

worst case scenario um the next

Administration says that's it we're

cutting off all assist and all Aid well

the rest of NATO will definitely stay in

the game right because they view it

differently because they're right here

but us support is critical and it's

critical to

get a settlement and if what you want is

to end War to stop the the the

killing

um and if you're pragmatic you have to

you have to assume this is going to be a

settlement that means that Russia's

going to keep maybe not all of this

maybe they'll keep this much and this

will be maybe a demilitarized zone right

uh patrolled by un peacekeepers or

whatever to act as a buffer but then you

have other issues is Putin going to say

no part of this deal has got to be that

Ukraine never joins

NATO that's I'm sure that's going to be

a part of his deal um and then how NATO

deals with that I have no idea because

you know they've already made sort of a

guarantee okay you're going to be in at

some point anyway that's uh how do you

think it end if you had to be if you had

to bet I think uh look part of the

reason why um part of the reason why the

the North Korean troops have ended up in

in in Russia which is again is an

astounding thing um is because Putin

desperately doesn't want to do another

conscription he knows that's vastly

unpopular with his with his folks which

is when you ask your you basically

people round up more people right I'm

I'm going to need I'm going to need

another 50,000 soldiers because he runs

what's essentially called a meat grinder

operation he just throws people in the

front right as Canon F I mean the the

Russian casualty rate has been

ridiculous right compared to um the the

ukrainians but they've been willing to

sacrifice um all those people so I think

the the the idea being look Kim Jong-un

he's making money off of this deal

sending troops up there he's getting the

troops that survive anyway will get

combat experience and he doesn't have a

military with any combat experience

right now and he's also getting weapons

technology transfer from Russia so he's

getting part of a deal here what's Putin

getting I think Putin's just getting

bodies he can throw out there ahead of

the next wave which will be Russian

troops right so I think I think those

10,000 North Koreans uh soldiers are

[ __ ] there's been a a rising sentiment

in the United States that we should stop

sending money to Ukraine and why are we

bothering and this isn't our problem etc

etc MH what do you say to those people

because that sentiment is rising and

it's rising from my opinion it's rising

on the right side of politics I hear it

more and more on some of the big

podcasts I hear it more and more on um X

and Twitter and again it's only because

I I researched what happened in Nazi

Germany in World War II that I suddenly

go this is much more complicated than

you think and you can embolden someone

if you don't resist their them invading

a local country yeah and why put one

right well look I mean this and and the

thing

is the world the world is shrinking

right the world is and has been and

continues to shrink nothing happens in a

bubble so what's happening right here is

being watched by uh you know xiin ping

in China right in terms of Taiwan I mean

he's sitting there saying okay here's

Taiwan there's a straight of Taiwan it's

no distance whatsoever he's just

conducted xiin ping and the Chinese

regime has just conducted the large lest

military exercise around Taiwan ever

basically blocking it off blocking the

ports and uh you know patrolling the

airs Airway uh Airway so the idea being

he just wanted to show that he could do

that right and so he's watching what's

happening over here in terms of the US

response and NATO response and and say

okay at what point does it make sense

for me to do this because at the end of

the day xiin ping is tied to his desired

Legacy which is the reunification and

and in his mind this belongs right here

and so so let's we'll move on to China

then um question was how do you think it

ends if you're a betting man how do you

think the Ukrainian war ends I think in

this coming year I think in part I know

I've talked a lot about what the

ukrainians are suffering from but

there's there are reasons why Putin is

going to need to uh figure this out as

well I think part of it is his economy

is is is suffering um

and so I think it finishes with a

negotiated settlement at some point

during 20 25 and I think that means uh

the lines are going to look again I keep

using the word unsatisfactory but that's

the way it's going to feel to a lot of

people uh the lines are going to look a

lot like they did before The Invasion uh

maybe a some additional territory being

held by the Russians and then I do think

that there will be some agreement to

have a buffer zone uh that will be

essentially under the opes of un

peacekeeping troops somehow

um you know no fly zone whatever you

want to call it as well I think that's

how it's going to end up I think K that

region in in in uh in Russia goes back

to the Russians I think that problem's

going to be I think in the short order

um I think they're going to want to move

quickly right before we get into the

teeth of winter um I think that's going

to be a mess so that's going to be a

major when they start that offensive and

we're talking again potentially 50,000

troops thrown at uh a relatively Thin

Line um I think that territory goes back

to Russia in the next

month I would I would suspect yeah I

mean basically you don't you don't put

troops there you know with all those

resources without intending to to use

them um and I think the longer those

North Korean troops sit there the more

trouble they will have in terms of

command and control so they're going to

want to get them into the uh into into

the cannon uh as quickly as

possible so you mentioned China China

feel like Taiwan is there Taiwan is this

little island off the coast of

China I hear about this um this plan

that they say China has which is the

2049 plan what is China's 2049

plan well part of that was based around

a timeline um for uh how we want to

refer to it the reunification the

absorption of Taiwan the taking over of

Taiwan nobody really knows what that

will look like because there's a a

concern um you know is it going to be a

completely kinetic is it going to be a

military operation uh is it going to be

more of a soft takeover uh sort of like

U you know there's it's a good example

right here Hong Kong um you remember

there used to be democracy in Hong Kong

and now there's not um and that happened

over a period of time but they basically

just squashed all remnants of democracy

particularly during the pandemic so

what's it going to look like when they

do take over Taiwan that's that's the

big question but the timeline has shrunk

so they now there's some feeling that

the movement on Taiwan will be during

the course of XI jinping's tenure right

so what are you looking at well that

depends on his grip on power which seems

very solid um it seems like it depends

on his health which you know again I be

speculating but so I don't see him

riding off into the sunset willingly

without finishing that project that in

his mind is so important um he's

Consolidated power in in China like

nobody

since Den jaia ping or or Mali dong you

know so I think um I think he's serious

again take take certain leaders at their

word some you know some Bluster a lot

some some make very big pronouncements

Donald Trump would be one of them who

tends to just speak off the cuff and

throw things out I think the danger

sometimes is is the the Dem democrats

for example take him at his word right

for everything he says right they take

everything he says literally um but

there are other leaders um Putin shiing

ping I think you need to pay real close

attention to exactly what they're saying

so I think when he talks about the you

know absorbing Taiwan and and making it

part of the motherland again I he's not

kidding around why does he want Taiwan

it looks like such an insignificant part

of that part of the map it's so small in

comparison to to China it's a good point

when you look at the map you go really

need to bother um you know what it's

part of it is is is the history right

and you know ever since the the you know

the Chen Kai Sheek and you know the

separatist and escaping to Taiwan and

raising it as a separate

nation it's

just it's it's hard to explain but it's

a very emotive subject right why does

the US care so much about

Taiwan um that's a better question too

um okay part of that

is part of that is uh I don't want to

say emotional but it's the idea of look

there Democratic

institutions um it's an ally you know

how could we possibly Stand By and Watch

a Communist Regime you know step on it

and and and destroy it part of it is um

practical it's like you know it's it's

an important chip manufacturing center

so you know there's a couple elements to

it um honestly look if if if all the

chip manufacturing on Taiwan was

reshored over to California somewhere um

would we care quite as much well we

would still care on that sort of

emotional values-based

uh

side we could probably we could probably

Overlook it in a long run now are we

going to send boots on the ground over

to defend Taiwan if there if there's a

military action uh um you know going

back to your betting person I would bet

no no matter who's in office but they

will say they're going to defend Taiwan

everyone all of the like the US

presidents are always asked would you

defend Taiwan if Russia invaded and

you'll probably know some of the quotes

better than I do but they've all said

that they would yeah yeah the only slip

up at one point was uh uh Biden where he

I don't think he really meant to say

what he said which was you know sort of

ambiguous towards the the defense of

Taiwan but then he corrected it um so

do I honestly think that we would send

uh troops over no no I don't um do I

think that we would do what we're doing

with Ukraine sure yeah would we provide

resources but this is a much different

uh situation right

um and so I

think while I get uh the concept uh I

just don't know that there's be follow

through

because that is a very tough cell to

explain why we're sending troops over to

face down the Chinese military which is

about a Stones throw away from Taiwan

and look this is going to be an

interesting situation right because the

folks over here the folks in

China they don't view the folks in

Taiwan as Taiwanese they view them as

Chinese right so are you going to have

you know Chinese military shooting

Chinese I don't know maybe it's going to

be a softer takeover maybe there's going

to there's more influence there's a

massive disinformation campaigns that go

on on Taiwan courtesy of the Chinese

regime there's all sorts of efforts

there to to

undermine uh Taiwanese leadership

but it this is again the point being is

this is a crisis look this is already

this is a mess and has been and it's

underway and it's in Ukraine situation

but over here this is looming right as a

major issue and and if you think about

the there other activities this is is

what's referred to as a South China Sea

right which is below Taiwan it is yes

and it's it's um this is the Philippines

here uh Vietnam over here China has

always viewed this as their territory

right this this is their backyard well

ever since World War II the US is

essentially patrolled and and maintained

Security in the South China Sea right in

the interest of international free trade

and you know freedom of movement

um there are increasing numbers of

encounters between the the Chinese Navy

and the Philippines uh Vietnamese over

um this this sea because again they view

this as theirs they're constantly in

here pushing they're building uh uh

artificial Islands there for ports um

there's there's a major flash point here

right for for potential

conflict and China I've talked to number

of experts that I really value and their

take is and I think it's not incorrect

is that China is basically on a war

footing with the West already right we

just don't see it or we don't feel it or

we don't want to acknowledge it and I

don't mean like they're going to launch

missiles but in their minds they're at

war with the US already and they're

they're acting in a sense as if that's

the case and we act as if well they're

just an economic competitor but it would

be nice if we could all get along

um so I think we may be misreading the

the tea leaves who's the the real enemy

of the West in your opinion who who

would you if you were the president of

the United States who would you be most

concerned

about well this is this is our biggest

this is our biggest concern right China

China is the is I think is the Topline

concern because of their their abilities

their resources um and you know again

the sort of the increasing

aggressiveness in this region um their

desire to uh reshape the the global

structure right they don't want the West

to be in charge they you know they view

this as you know how do we realign this

so that we get what you know the bricks

and and uh uh a different realignment of

of world order so that the US and its

allies are not at the top of the food

chain so in a sense that doesn't mean

that I think that we're going to be in a

in a in a shooting match with China

anytime soon I don't actually believe

that's going to be the case but that's

where we have to focus a lot of our

concerns when you talk about identifying

and resolving and you know prioritizing

threats um in the short

term um right here is

Iran

and look the Iranian regime has been

engaged in uh assassination plots to try

to kill uh now the president elect uh as

well as several other uh us officials

whom they uh believe were responsible

for the targeting back in 2020 of KM

solomani who ran the kuds force and was

a very close Ally of the supreme leader

Kaman in Iran you think Iran have tried

to kill Trump oh they have definitely

yeah there's no doubt that that they've

been engaged in they have a hit list and

they've actually been engaged in trying

to get uh plots underway um to uh you

know to uh Target not just him but Mike

Pompeo uh Mark Millie former head of the

or chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Mark eser former Secretary of Defense

Brian hook uh and others so but I guess

you know from a setting that aside

setting aside the bizarreness of this

state with a hit list of US officials

right and that's just saying that out

loud should make people think well that

is bizarre but what they've done in

terms of uh establishing and building

over the years this this network of of

proxies thetis Islamic jihadah Kamas um

Iran has stated numerous times they've

been very clear about it their desire

their objective is to wipe Israel from

the face of the the Earth so they've set

up their proxies with the same objective

and the idea being okay we'll let the

proxies do the dirty work we're not

going to take accountability we're not

going to be in the direct line of fire

now that's happened a couple of times

right there's been this direct you know

back and forth between Iran and Israel

um so this is a this is a very serious

problem that will not be

resolved as long as the Iranian regime

and the Revolutionary guard Corps the

irgc maintain their belief system that

Israel needs to be wiped off the face of

the Earth as long as they believe that

they will continue to be the primary

cause of instability um in uh the Middle

East so we talk talk about getting

ceasefires in Gaza talk about ceasefire

with Hezbollah in Lebanon not that

there's much left of the hesah

leadership but that's just putting

lipstick on a pig right because you're

not solving the problem and you know I

don't know that you change the belief

structure of the Iranian regime and the

irgc so in that case what do you hope

for what you hope for internally that

there will be at some point the

population would just say we've had

enough right I mean there have been how

many cases do we need where you know

women go out on the streets to protest

right the new morality laws and they

disappear right they're just they're it

it's brutal yeah you don't hear any of

that you don't hear people you know you

don't hear activists in the States going

on college campuses and protesting the

treatment of of women in in Iran no it's

always you know God my god look what

Israel is doing those protests in Iran

do the United States fuel those protests

do they cause disinformation in that

country to try and stabiliz it to try

and get a coup so that they can throw

out the leadership is that how the world

Works um you know what it I'm going to

what I'm going to say I think a lot of

people who would look at my background

and go well of course that son of a

[ __ ] is going to say that this is what

I would say is that what happens

um

is okay let me put it this way year in

years pasted yeah that's what would have

happened we would have tried to say okay

how do we get that that Uprising how do

we get that

but now it's more how do we get

information into those people and then

if there is a protest that develops how

do we support it what do you do to

support

that uh that I would argue has you know

not worked um the green movement and and

few other un you know unsuccessful

attempts by people to kind of get out on

the streets and protest have been

brutally put down and and the US and the

UN and others for the most part you know

they're going to protest and write a

nasty memo but none of it helps right

how do you get information to the people

in a country like that you know they

have they have access to some degree

most of it's locked down I guess but but

they have access to some degree so you

try to you try to push information out

look Voice of America is is probably the

best example over the years vaa was for

years its whole purpose was how do we

get information about what happens in

the world um into Russia into the Soviet

Union

and nowadays you know you could argue

you've got more possibilities because of

Technology U that's outside my scope and

we start talking about how do you you

know aside from dropping leaflets um

which which bizarrely enough in South

Korea and North Korea they still do

South Korea drops leaflets using

balloons over North Korean territory to

convince people that Kim Jong on is bad

and that life could be better um but

yeah I the the worst part is with Iran

is you just look these people are under

the thumb of the mulles in the

irgc and they are brutal right it's like

it's like Hamas Hamas has ruled Gaza

with an Iron Fist and they've been

brutal against anyone that they disagree

with

lgbtq activists women name them and and

yet you know you never see protests

outside the country about Hamas you know

how they beat um you know uh a gay

activist it doesn't happen right the C

campus protests are all about Israel

Israel is surrounded by a ring of of

proxies built by Iran that wants to

destroy them so yes they're going to

think differently than we do what

happened in

Israel on that day where I mean people

rushed into the their country and

thousands of people died yeah as of that

yeah their estimate was 12200 and then

uh 250 were dragged off into uh into

Gaza I just don't know how that that's

possible when that that state is so

unbelievably paranoid about invasions

and attacks and they have the the Iron

Dome how does that happen how do and

yeah it that was a um it was a

long-term uh project that was very well

orchestrated by Hamas uh with Iran the

rgc was fully aware of what was going on

the rgc provided some of the training to

some of the Kamas Fighters that

eventually ended up in inside Southern

Israel um so probably the best way to

put it would

be they lulled the Israeli government to

sleep and the the military to sleep they

made them believe that they really

weren't interested in violence anymore

and what that did and and that what they

really wanted was okay we just want to

like try to build up our economy right

and and try to make a better life well

that was horseshit on hamas's part

that's what the Palestinians would like

but that was horeshit on hamas's part um

what they were doing was

lulling them to sleep in that then they

kind of took their eye off the ball the

Israeli government in particular started

looking more inward you know you had a

lot of internal political battles going

on um and they were doing that because

they viewed that they didn't have the

same existential threat on their

doorstep that they had been dealing with

right they they sort of took the bait

and it was an intelligence failure

there's no doubt about it in part

because the uh the people running that

operation dumbed down their

Communications right they deliberately

stopped using Communications that they

felt could be compromised or had been

compromised and we we've seen that over

the years um Al-Qaeda is a good example

once Al-Qaeda understood uh the extent

to which we could intercept their

Communications you know they went back

to the old days right handing

handwritten notes right this is my

cousin I want you to take it to that

person over there who's his cousin only

give him that note right don't talk to

anybody very hard to intercept right

very and so you you no it's very hard to

conduct your operations it takes a lot

more time um but that's the extent to

which they went to try to get this thing

done and uh yeah unfortunately they were

very

successful how are you thinking about

the world's perception specifically the

United States perception of what's going

on in Israel and Palestine you know we

talked about how support seems to be

waning for providing support to Ukraine

is support waning do you believe for

Israel and the plight of Israel because

there's been a lot of information around

the amount of innocent people that have

been killed in Palestine yeah I would be

more concerned about um Ukrainian

support and I would be losing um the

level of Israeli support why because I

think um it's a little bit of a

different Dynamic right there's Israel

has always kind of had this this

interesting place within us psyche I

guess and um and it's also look there's

a massive Jewish American Community

right I mean there's no doubt about that

so there's there's a level of support

there that that Ukraine doesn't have um

and and also just the length of support

look we've been we've been close allies

of Israel for Generations right ever

since it it started uh you can't say the

same thing about Ukraine so I guess I'm

hopeful that moving into the next

Administration and I know people say oh

my God you know you sounds like you're a

warmonger well no again I go back to

with Ukraine if you want peace peace if

that's what you want if you don't want

the conflict then my argument is they've

got to be able to sit down at a

negotiating table if Putin feels like

he's winning right if he feels like the

US is backing off he's not going to

negotiate he's just going to move

forward he doesn't he doesn't give a

[ __ ] about his soldiers he just keeps

throwing them into the front lines right

so if you want peace here then you need

to continue support sufficiently to get

them to the table and I do think we're

we're we're close because again I don't

you know Russia yes they're making

Headway here but a longterm you know

meaning another two or three years I

don't think I don't think Putin can

sustain that with the Russian population

so how does Israel palestine's war

end unfortunately I I again being a

cynic um I think it ends the way a lot

of these have ended which means we're

just putting a Band-Aid on a sucking

chest wound and they'll come up with a

ceasefire um I think Kamas they'll

figure out a way to bring in the

Palestinian Authority to govern Hamas or

sorry Gaza um I think uh I think sort of

the Lynch pin there is if they can get a

ceasefire with uh with Gaza with

Hamas that will make it infinitely

easier for the hooes to say okay we'll

back off we're not going to keep

screwing up the Red Sea firing missiles

at International Trade and us and Allied

naval ships and I think think that it

also allows for Hezbollah look I think

the Israelis look at Hezbollah

leadership now I think we've pretty much

taken everybody out

um and there's more of a structure in in

Lebanon I think it's it's always been

problematic but I think the Lebanese

government could um you know could deal

with the problem if there is a an

official ceasefire with hezb so I think

it all comes down to um