Look at me. Look at me.

>> Look at me, too.

>> I'm a normal [ __ ] guy. I can't

believe I thought I was a Ludy tune. I'm

in the bell curve of normal male

nuttiness.

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser. Scott is

off today and I'm joined by the man who

may or may not be running for president.

It's Anthony Scaramucci, the mooch,

lawyer, podcaster, and founder of

Skybridge Capital. Hello, Anthony. How

you doing?

>> All right, I'll stipulate right here on

this show. You're my running mate. We're

going to go for it, Carrie. You and me

the day after April Fools.

>> I'm your running mate. Let's flip that.

Strike that. Flip it.

>> Okay. You want to be the president?

Okay, great. I'll be your running mate.

Okay. I'll grow a beard like JD Vance.

Okay.

>> Yeah. Oh, please don't.

>> Emphasis on the word beard. Okay. What

are we talking about today?

>> All right, we're talking about Anthony.

There is so much going on. I just don't

even know. Explain people. You You put

up an a fake uh April Fool's thing about

running for president. Correct. And what

was

>> I thought it was I thought it was fun. I

mean, the reaction was sort of crazy

actually, but I I thought

>> I know. I thought it was real for a

second. Like why not given the craziness

of this world?

>> Well, I mean the truth of the matter is

we could be doing better than we are

doing right now. That's my honest

opinion. But I I I I've never felt that

political calling. But

>> my my uh my staff made up that mooch

2028 hat.

>> Yeah.

>> And they said, "Let's put this out for

April Fools." I said, "Okay." You know,

I I'm not going to play the jokes, you

know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was

>> Last year, I wrote that Elon Musk had

given me a job at Doge. A lot of people

thought that was true, you know. I don't

know. People I mean,

>> I don't engage in April Fools. It's odd.

I don't I get tricked by them a lot. But

I I I like it. I appreci I I believed it

for a second, honestly. I was like,

"What?" And I sent it to the staff. I

was like, "Is he running?" I mean,

again, you never know.

>> Let me stipulate. I'm not running. I'm

running for reelection in my marriage

and and and knows my wife.

>> How's the polling going? The

>> going I could be termlimited. That's the

one problem with my marriage. I'm

worried about that.

>> That's true. Your wife is

>> running for re-election in my marriage.

My wife has a political platform of

castration. So, I will not be running

for president. But anyway, it was a good

April Fool's joke.

>> Okay, Anthony, let's get to the news.

Donald Trump says uh the war in Iran is

nearing completion, but the US will hit

Iran extremely hard over the next two to

three weeks, bombing the country back to

the stone ages, which is just a lovely

term. Uh a 19-minute address to the

nation on Wednesday night, Trump tried

to justify the war, but didn't offer

anything new. It was rambling. It was

problematic. I think he didn't he made

he lied a lot. He also downplayed

concerns about economic fallout, calling

the spike in the gas price a short-term

increase and saying the straight of

hormuz would open up naturally after the

war. He said the same thing about co it

would end naturally, which it really

didn't. He didn't say anything about

putting um uh troops there or following

through on threats to leave NATO. He

talks about it but then doesn't do it.

Talk about the speech because I thought

it really was a big flat zero like a it

really was flat and nobody was paying

attention to it in a weird way. Although

the markets certainly were.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, the speech is about

power. Okay. So, CBS News, still in

Trump's mind, the Tiffany Network, said,

"Hey, no problem. Our reality show

that's been on the air for 25 years,

Survivor, we're going to interrupt the

programming to bring you this speech."

So, it's not just going to be a cable

news speech. It' be a network speech.

Trump's like, "Hey, definitely doing

that." And so, that shows you a little

bit of the corruption of the media. Uh,

I think he has decapitated The reason

why your show is doing so well is that

he's decapitated corporate media. He's

got them chilled. He's got their lawyers

triple-checking everything they say. And

so Trump's looking at saying, "Hey, I'm

going to get attention and uh people on

me. I'm going with the speech, even if

it's a speech about nothing." But to

your point, the market said, "Oh, whoa.

We're likely going to have ground troops

in there. we're likely going to have a

really tough time and a result of which

it was full risk off after the speech.

So, and and you know, and people are

saying to me, they always say, "Oh,

Trump cares about the market. Trump

cares about the market." Trump doesn't

care about the market. Trump cares about

manipulating the market. Trump cares

about making money from the market for

himself and the people around him. He

doesn't care about your portfolio or

your market. He doesn't even care about

the polls anymore because he's not

running for reelection. And so guys, get

off of those notions of firstterm Trump

caring about the market and the poll

numbers. He has worse poll numbers than

Jimmy Carter did at the peak of the oil

crisis

>> in 1978, 1979. That poll numbers are

terrible. He doesn't care.

>> Doesn't care. So what how did you what

what was the reason for the speech? What

what is he doing? Why is he making such

efforts if he doesn't care?

>> The the the the the reason for the

speech and as an American

>> a weak speech. I think we'd agree.

>> Yeah. But but there was something he

said in the speech that people should be

listening to. And as an American citizen

that's still exercising my first

amendment right, I denounce it as an

American citizen. He said he's going to

bomb Iran into the stone age.

>> Right.

>> Okay. That was the reason for the

speech. And let me explain why that was

important.

>> That was important because I'm putting

the ground troops in. I have a

12year-old's mentality. Uh, and when I'm

moving stuff into the region, guess

what, guys? I'm not using that as a

leverage point. I'm using the stuff. So,

the 82nd Airborne is going in there. So

are the Marines.

>> 50,000 troops, right?

>> And but by the way, uh, you know, uh,

General Kaine told me that that booby

trap Car Island and they've got all

these little Vietnam like guerilla

things they're going to do to our troops

and our troops are really set up for

cold war army to army battle. So, I've

got to spend the next three weeks

blasting the living daylights out of

Iran before I can get the troops in

position. So, I'm going to give you the

speech and it's going to be I'm going to

bomb them back to the stone age speech.

So, this is going to be the speech when

historians look at the wreckage of

Donald Trump. They're going to say,

"What were you guys doing when you let

somebody that inhumane into the White

House?"

>> And so, in preparation for this, I

prepared something for you. Can I just

go over this very quickly? Go right

ahead.

>> So, it is not enough for MAGA the

following.

>> We're going to release the Epstein

files. Oh, wait a minute. Trump's in the

Epstein files. We're not going to

release the EPS files. We're going to

bomb people to distract from them. We're

going to bomb a school in Iran with

young kids in it, mostly women. We're

going to create alligator Alcatra, which

is this disgusting penitentiary for

immigrants in Florida that has sewage

backup. And we're going to laugh about

it while we're down there. We're going

to murder people in Minneapolis. We're

going to kidnap children and not even

know where we're sending them. We're

going to manipulate the markets. Cara,

we're going to take bribes, particularly

a big $400 million jet. And I'm going to

keep the jet after I leave. I'm going to

excoriate our allies that have been our

friends for over a century. And I'm

going to threaten to attack a NATO

country, Greenland. I'm going to [ __ ]

all over Canada. And then I'm going to

come after your first, fourth,

fifth, and 14th amendment rights in the

Constitution.

And oh, by the way, every price in

America is going to go up as a result of

my tariffs. And I'm going to lower uh

corporate taxes, big beautiful spending

bill. And so if you're making a million

dollars or more, you're going to get a

$7,000 benefit. And if you're making

$50,000 or less, I'm taking $500 of

benefits away from you and this is what

I'm going to do and you're going to shut

up and you're going to like it. MAGA,

you're still going to support me 34%.

But let me tell you what's going to kill

them.

>> It's the gas prices. So, it turns out

that the red line for MAGA Carris

Swisser are the gas prices because they

don't want to go into the 250th uh

birthday of America grilling hot dogs at

$8 a gallon in gas. And so, his approval

ratings are going into the gutter. But

everything I just read, including the

gutting of the Department of Justice,

and we could name 50 other things,

hollowing out USAID,

was acceptable to these

>> scientists attacking lawyers, attacking

media.

>> No, no NIH grants anymore. We're not

going to do any cancer research in the

country.

>> But you said he doesn't care. Like you

just said like doesn't care.

>> Doesn't care. So why do it

>> besid self self-promotion, self

argrandisement, self-interest?

>> He he he's doing it because he likes

putting people in pain. He's doing it

because he's a miserable sob and he's

doing it because anybody in his path

gets destroyed.

You know, some people say Neilist, other

people say nihilist, but that is him.

He's attacking Mcronone this morning.

>> Oh,

>> Mcronone is in his field of vision

today. Uh then he'll attack another

person. Last yesterday afternoon, he

said, you know, JD Vance is out there

negotiating this thing. If it works,

I'll take all the credit. If it doesn't,

I'll give him all the blank. That is

Donald Trump. I have

>> So, can I can I ask you is is it

cognitive issues? I mean, you spent it

seems like that that speech last night

was like s looked I hate to say it

looked like my mom on a bad day at the

at the at the at the nursing home.

>> Oh, okay. So, I'm the contrarian on this

cuz I've known the son of a [ __ ] for 20

years. It's slight cognitive issues, but

he's not in full-on dementia. He's an

80-year-old guy that's a little bit

forgetful. He's stooping a little bit.

He's lost some posture. Maybe his spine

is uh a little bit weakened through old

age. a whole bunch of inflam Speaking of

inflammation.

>> Yeah, inflammation. His ankles are

swollen, but he has not lost it. And

whether people like it or not, he has a

lot of energy for an 80-year-old. He's

moving himself around.

>> Okay? And so, but what it is, what it is

is hatred of self and projection of that

hatred onto others. And and you got to

see it for what it actually is. Okay.

The other the other thing is let's say

that I'm not saying anybody's an agent

of Putin, but let's say I was an agent

of Putin. Okay, let's just say

hypothetically I happen to be an agent

of Putin and I happen to oh, I happen to

be the president of the United States.

So, let me do the following. Let me go

after the NATO allies. Let me threaten

to pull out of NATO. Let me to pull aid

and material from Ukraine, excoriate the

Ukrainian president. Let me Oh, here's a

good idea. let me attack Iran and then a

result of attacking Iran, I'm gonna lift

the sanctions onions Russian oil

>> and I'm gonna lift the sanctions on

their ally Iran's oil.

>> So now the Russians are going to make

billions and billions of dollars off of

this which will help my buddy Vlad.

>> Mhm.

>> And uh I don't know, you tell me.

>> I don't know what he's doing. I I felt

like I was slightly cognizant, but you

know, he is having a rough week in

courts cuz courts are pushing back on

him everywhere you look. It was like 10

of them yesterday. Let's go through some

of his losses. A federal judge

temporarily halted construction on his

beloved White House ballroom, saying it

needs Congress's authorization, and

Congress doesn't seem to be moving on

it. Trump's executive order cutting

funding to NPR and PBS was struck down.

A judge ruling it violated the First

Amendment. Another judge ruled that

civil suit against Trump for his actions

on January 6 can go forward and that the

presidential immunity does not apply to

his speech that day. Uh talking to

supporters before they marched the

capital. And one more a judge in Texas

blocked a Trump back deal allowing

churches to endorse political

candidates. Trump also was at the

Supreme Court on Wednesday very briefly

listening to arguments out whether his

executive order will limit to limit

birthright citizenship is

constitutional. The justices seemed

skeptical and that's being kind. his

latest order restricting mail and voting

ahead of the 2026 election is already

facing legal challenges and he's gonna

lose. He's going to lose badly on that

one. So, pick a case, any case, and do I

mean, this is what he does. He

transgresses with illegal actions and

then everyone's picking up the pieces

and pushing back legally and he he does

damage in the wake. Um, what is he's

going to lose on every one of these

things? It seems like any does it matter

or what? Well, I see I don't I don't I

>> The only one he cares about is the

ballroom from what I can tell.

>> Well, see, I actually think there's a

bigger thing going on here because

remember Trump to a group of right-wing

intellectuals is an empty vessel. Okay,

so they they bought call options on him

on January 7, 2021.

Low point for Trump right after the

insurrection. Everyone said he was

politically dead. And so these

right-wing lunatics that couldn't get

the time of day of a Mitt Romney or a

George W. Bush, they said, "Let's team

up with Donald Trump. He's probably

going to come back. He still has lots of

MAGA popularity. And if he comes back,

we can take all of this intellectual

nonsense that we believe and we can run

the card table with Trump." So let's

talk about one of the cases, which is

the argument against birthright

citizenship. So remember, everybody's

looking at the case like, "Oh, he's

trying to repeal the 14th amendment.

Blah blah blah. He's going to lose the

case. Ho haha." I don't see it that way.

This is a maximalist position. Okay?

This is a group of people to Trump's

right, these intellectual imbeciles that

want to expand article 2 executive power

and they are pushing for a maximalist

position. Okay? So every fight whether

it's win or lose expands the boundaries

of what future presidents will try.

Carol and I think this is the point that

people need to

>> even if he loses like

>> even if he loses you just put on the

table that everything in this

constitution is negotiable.

>> You see what I just did? I I I went to

the court to intimidate them for my

base.

>> Didn't work. My base hates black and

brown people and they hate anchor babies

and I'm sending my base a message that

I'm fighting for them. Okay, but

imbecile let me just point out

something. If you let's say they ruled

with you, you would create a situation

that is ridiculous. Okay. And what is

that situation? you would have children

born in the country

>> that are actually have no citizens

rights anywhere because a lot of the

parents

>> the justices pointed that out the

justice

>> okay so that you would have that they

wouldn't be able to work legally in the

country they wouldn't be entitled to

schooling uh this is this is a

constitutional

>> why do the maximist thing when the

minimalist thing is how they get things

that's how they got to abortion they

slowly slowly slowly slowly

ate at it. This is this is going to

never be

>> brought up again for 20 years, 50 years.

>> Cara, I got three years to push and

shove you guys. Okay. Now, if I can only

get control of the elections, what I can

then do is install another rightwinger

to further weaken everything in the

constitution. You know, Peter Teal, he

says, "I don't like the Constitution.

The Constitution's very, very messy. I

don't like these people that I don't

agree with. I want the things to go my

way or the highway. And so I need the

orange wrecking ball. I've got three

years left. I got to smash into that

constitution as hard as possible. And

but and see and by the way, good news

for me. I've already weakened the

Constitution in the eyes of 30 40 50% of

the people.

>> So I got to keep going on this and see

this.

>> I see. So, they're going to just keep

trying to smash until they can't

>> until they can't, even if they don't

win.

>> But I have a question for you if you

don't mind. Are

>> we living, you and me?

>> Mhm.

>> Are we living in a rogue state?

>> Meaning

>> Okay. Well, we're Let's go over what a

rogue state is. Where

>> I know, but who's the rogue? Him or us?

>> Uh, well, I I have to say that our

government is the rogue. Yes. You know,

our government is the rogue.

>> Parts of it. Parts of it. Are we are we

living in a rogue state?

>> We're living in an executive that wants

to take more power than ever, which is

something that's happens in Silicon

Valley. It happens in which you're

trying to apply their Silicon Valley um

you spoke of Teal and the others Silicon

Valley management style to the

government which has been growing for

decades and decades and decades. That's

not a new fresh thing. and some used to

accuse Franklin Don Roosevelt of a

similar thing if you were, you know, I

was not alive then, but if you read

history, um, so I think there's always

been this push for unitary executive

power, it just tends to get pushed back

every single time.

>> Let me ask a different question then. If

if if a smaller nation

>> Mhm.

>> was indiscriminately striking another

nation in direct violation of law

>> Mhm.

>> and was applying

this type of violent behavior, would the

Americans, the old school American

governments be designating that country

a rogue state?

>> Yes. Yes, I would think so. But I think

it's a rogue group of people within the

state because I what what I've been

struck by is how um

enduring some of it is, right? You're

seeing push back everywhere. And I know

it's I think one of the things that I

think about a lot is it's very easy when

you when you run for office, you can be

and I don't like to use this phrase as

much, but a bombthrower, right? You can

make trouble everywhere. And when you're

governing, you change as a governor,

right? To govern things. And you you

aren't a bombthrower. So, this is a this

is a government that just never governs.

It bombthrows and breaks and doesn't fix

just like I mean the White House

ballroom is a perfect like it's it's a

construction pit. They just destroy. And

I don't even know if that ballroom's

ever going to get made. It's a it's a

kind of a physical manifestation of the

mentality of just destroy. And once

we've destroyed, we've won the we've won

the fight already because now we have to

the rest of us pick it up. Um, but I am

struck by the power of the push back

actually at the same time.

>> Well, there there's symbolism in

destroying that by the way. You know,

I'm here as a wrecker of everything.

>> And this is the thing that the Americans

have to answer. The American people have

to answer for the following.

>> You got a system that got put in place,

tremendous checks and balances,

tremendous processes. You had statesmen

and women abide to the system, even

Richard Nixon. and the system made you

the most prosperous country and arguably

one of the most if not the most powerful

country in the world and you've now

decided that you want to wreck that

system and so so and and I understand it

because you and I grew up with these

people so I understand it you want to

wreck the system because you think the

system is unfair to you there's a few

fat cats getting super rich and you're

in a full-on affordability crisis for

yourself and you've gone from

economically aspirating to

desperational. So Trump is your avatar

for anger. System's not working for you.

Blow up the system.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah.

>> Okay. So but but that's going to re very

bad for people. The people that want to

blow up the system, it's going to really

hurt them.

>> Yes, it will be. I mean when I I know it

sounds crazy, but when I was in college,

two guys ran for pre the student body

presidency, right? And they had a whole

they basically had a nealistic thing

like we just want to party. we want to

spend all the money on ourselves. They

and they won, right? They won. They they

they people were kind of sick of the,

you know, the student body president

types um who wanted to do good

government. And there is a moment where

I think voters do like chaos, right? But

at some point they don't. They

absolutely do not. And I think it does I

think we'll be picking up from this guy

for centuries. Like it's not a century,

for decades. Um, and I think it's not a

good thing, but it isn't necessarily a

bad thing to have to be battered, right,

for a second, just to see what holds and

what needs to be fixed. And it does

allow us to reflect on who we are and

what we want to be. I mean, it is it's

kind of interesting that we're in this

250 this quarter, you know, the the 250

years and it says, okay, what doesn't

work? What does work? What do we need to

think about? And it does knock everyone

into a sense of what matters to them.

And I don't think I think it's a painful

way to learn something, but I think it's

a way to learn things. I do.

>> All right. So, this is a big question.

Okay. And I and I follow you and I love

your podcast and I and I read your

writings.

>> So, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going

to stipulate something. I'm going to ask

a very big question.

>> All right. So I believe that this is a

very young country and we don't have the

cultural mores of Italy, France,

Germany, you pick the country. Okay? Not

saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just

trying to explain to you what happens in

our country is we go into the [ __ ]

every 80 or so years. Yep, we do.

>> Okay. So 1776

into the [ __ ] civil war. Uh we've

lost all the institutional memory

because 80 years is enough where the

generation dies off. And then we go 80

years out from the Civil War. We're in

the Great Depression.

>> We go into the [ __ ] again. We have to

pull ourselves out of it. And then we

build the postw World War II society

along with our allies.

>> And we have this moment of great peace,

generally great peace and prosperity.

But we're 80 years out again, Cara. And

so now we're going into the [ __ ]

again, which

>> Well, we've been in the [ __ ] but go

ahead.

>> All right. Well, we're in the [ __ ]

but but America has been always in these

moments to your point that you just made

>> reflective,

redemptive, and then it renews itself.

>> However, that's right.

>> However, there's something going on

right now, and this is the car Swisser

question.

>> All right.

>> Something going on right now. The

proliferation of social media,

>> right? and the addiction of the social

media which has created this tribalism

and created these stove pipes silos.

>> Is this going to prevent us

>> from coming out of the [ __ ] Are we

going to be able to have a postpartisan

moment?

>> I think they're finished these cases

that are starting to build up. I think

people are it takes you know as you know

cigarettes 20 years

>> this is Philip Morrison then

>> this is Philip Morris again and

everybody is like just a [ __ ] second

and I think I know it sounds crazy but I

have so many people now coming up to me

after I wrote Burnbook which at the time

people are like oh you're so mean to

them they're such important innovators

people come to me now and they're like

you weren't mean enough you weren't mean

enough like you weren't tough enough on

them and I think people are suddenly

taking control of themselves whether

it's social media I think young people

are I've my sons I see that's an

anecdotal thing but I see people pushing

back across the globe against the tech

and I think the fact that the

technologist put theirs in with Trump

was the final moment of oh they are the

villains like the Marvel villains and I

think I I really do think there's a very

healthy push back happening and I don't

think I I I feel positive for the first

time that people understand

>> very optimistic

I hope so. It's very optimistic. I'm

going to say something does not reflect.

>> You're going to be opposite. All right,

we have to move on to Christine Nome's

husband's boo. 30 seconds. I'm going to

say something very does not reflect well

on me or Deardra.

>> I let the kids have the iPad

>> and it was ruining their personalities

and I let them have it for too long.

>> I've taken the iPad away from them and

the phones and all that other stuff.

I've got my children back.

>> They have been desified by that process.

Okay. So, a shout out to Jonathan Hayes.

Is that how you say his name? Jonathan.

>> And a shout out to Caris Swisser for

putting out the surgeon general's

warning label before the surgeon general

did that these stupid products give your

kids brains lung cancer. I know it's a

mixed metaphor, but

>> I'll tell you one one of the themes in

this series I did, the car sleep is

about chat the danger of chat bots with

kids. You know, I've been talking to the

parents and and doing interviews with

them. I think the the the the most

dangerous thing right now is

relationships with AI bots and the

sycopantic relationships. And I'll tell

you that I'll do a pl a plot spoiler

this entire series. Guess what the

number one indicator of longevity is?

You'll know.

>> Money, right? Or no?

>> Money. Money. Of course. Yes. Don't be

poor. But what's the actual number one?

>> Genetics.

>> No. Not sleep. Not diet. Not exercise.

>> Stress.

>> Friends and family.

>> Friends and family. Ah, that makes

sense. That makes sense. Community, not

just people, you know, but walking to a

coffee shop and saying, "Hey, how's your

day going?" I do that now all the time.

People, you know, they look down and you

go, "Hey, how's your day going?" They go

like this.

>> Mhm.

>> Like you can see them go, "Oh, I'm

okay." And I go, "Are you sure? Is

everything good?

>> Let me give it."

>> It's It's amazing. If you talk to people

you don't know and you have friends and

family around you, you live longer,

you're happier, you're healthier, it's

less costly. It's and and it's s and

it's not it's not um correlation, it's

causation. It's abs and and the more

time you spend with bots and online, the

sicker you're going to be.

>> Cara, I'm I'm loving you more every

every day. Can I put out a public social

message to billionaire dickweeds? Can I

just have a public social message? Hey,

hey, hey, billionaire dickweeds, are you

out there? Listen to me, okay? No more

asymmetrical relationships, okay? If you

don't call me, guess what? I'm not

[ __ ] calling you. You're not that

important. Okay? You have to take a crap

every day. You have to go to the

bathroom. You're really not that

important. So, you know what? I want to

live a long time. So, I'm going to have

symmetrical relationships and bilateral

relationships with people. If you think

you're too [ __ ] important to call me

back.

>> Yeah.

>> You're never getting another call from

me.

>> Okay. All right. Let's go to the next.

Speaking of this,

>> we're going to Christine because I

brought props.

All right. All right. Never mind. Let's

go on a quick break. When we come back,

SpaceX officially files for an IPO.

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>> Anthony, we're back with more news.

SpaceX has confidentially fi I don't

know confidentially everyone knows about

it filed for an IPO. The filing puts the

company in track for a June listing

ahead of other upcoming massive IPOs

from OpenAI and Anthropic. There's a lot

of them coming this year. Uh SpaceX will

reportedly seek a valuation of 1.75

trillion. It's not making that much

money. Company will reportedly allocate

as much as 30% of the offerings to small

investors. That's nice. Um uh it's

really I'm going to go through a whole

bunch of market things but that's it.

They I think it's $15 billion in

revenue. the the numbers are really

crazy for this. It's highly overvalued.

At the same time, people will probably

run into it. Um, a couple things. Oracle

stock has been fluctuating after laying

off thousands of employees. Microsoft

dropped almost a quarter of its value in

the first three months of the year.

Worst quarter. Open AAI is beginning to

let individual investors access the

stock months before its planned IPO. Um,

lots of companies gotten hit.

Palunteer's gotten hit. It's really kind

of an up and down thing. talk a little

bit about the SpaceX IPO and and where

the markets are from your perspective

and and of course if you'd like Bitcoin,

tell us where what's happening there

since you're Mr. Bitcoin.

>> All right. Well, I mean I mean let's

start with SpaceX. I mean listen the

cult of personality around Elon Musk is

such where he gets an excessive

exogenous premium for his companies.

They they are off of the scale of

>> even if they're suffering like Tesla.

>> Even if they're suffering like Tesla,

they get enormous metrical valuation

numbers. Okay, you're talking about a

$1.65

trillion

>> 675 trillion valuation. He's going to

raise apparently $75 billion. So that

would crush the Saudi Arampo IPO record.

Okay. It's two to three times larger

than any IPO ever. Okay. And he does

have a good product with Starlink. We

have to we have to tell people

>> same thing with this

>> is good. But we don't know the revenue

splits yet between Starlink,

>> the launching business, the defense

business. We don't know the breakout of

the profitability. Okay. Okay. And we

also don't know the capex burn because

it it would feel like the Starship stuff

is a blast furnace, if you will, a blast

furnace of uh capex. Okay. Now, having

said that, I want to disclose this to

people. I do own SpaceX. I have

participated in one of the private

rounds of SpaceX.

>> Why did you do that? Because you thought

they they were far and away the biggest

provider.

>> I I I did that because I see this

Starlink being worth a fortune for him.

And I see this idea, and I'm not saying

it'll happen, and this is why it's

venture capital in my portfolio, but I

see the notion that creating

interstellar or orbital data centers,

uh, where you're getting the energy from

the sun and not from the electricity

grid and you're beaming it back down to

Earth using satellite technology. I

think that's near near science fiction.

I think that become science fact and I

think he's well positioned to do it. I

also think that he's merged Grock into

this and I think Grock on its own which

I again full disclosure I was an

investor in XAI I mean I think you know

this Antonio Gracias and I worked

together at at Goldman uh obviously I

would have been smarter to invest

earlier but he's been helpful in getting

me access to these investments and for

me in my venture portfolio that side of

my portfolio I think this guy has done a

very good job of executing ing uh and

the valuations may be high but what I've

learned in life and you and I are for

I'm 40 years as an investor uh I missed

out on a few things early like Amazon

because I was reading Warren Buffett's

annual reports and the valuation for

Amazon was too high but ultimately the

guys that bought Amazon were right. I

missed it. Uh and it was a big miss for

me. you know, a $10,000 investment in

Amazon on the May 15th, 1997 IPO is

worth almost $20 million today, right?

And so I want to have a few things,

>> although it could have been touchandgo.

There was a point where Amazon

>> and we could be five years from now, if

you're kind enough to invite me back on,

we could be saying that was a big miss

for SpaceX. That was a big miss. But

again, what I would tell investors is

you got to have a little bit of your

portfolio

in the dream because it is America and

we have to believe in that dream. Now I

have most of my portfolio in stocks and

bonds and I have most of my portfolio in

the garden variety S&P 500 some

Berkshire Hathaway etc. But I do I do

own this stuff but

>> would you would you buy open AI in

comparatively now they're in a much more

competitive position now yeah with

Anthropic and others or or would you buy

anthropic? So I own both

>> and uh you know I had this nightmare

situation with Sam Bankman Freed which

I've well documented and talked about

but one of the things he did for me

>> he bought Anthropic

>> he brought anth he told me to buy

Anthropica and I bought Anthropic very

early

>> and let me tell you how this works in

life. Anthropic is up 140 to1 from where

I bought it in terms of its current

private market valuation. So anthropic

is a larger percentage of my net worth

than certain legacy assets that I have.

Cara and so this is another reason why I

always tell people you it's okay and by

the way you don't have time in the day

for all my zeros and all my stupid

decisions and stuff. You know I had

Travis Kalanick is that he said I had

him in my office $50 million valuation

for Uber. I said, "Wait a minute. An

unknown guy in an unknown black car is

going to drive my 16-year-old daughter

around Manhattan. Get out of my office.

>> Get out of Get out of here."

>> And I and I missed it. Right. So, I'm I

I I'm I can give you all my losses as

well,

>> right?

>> But but you got to me

>> I believe that you have to have some of

these in. So, Open AI has its

challenges. Obviously, he's fighting it

out with Elon and all the different

things that we could describe, but I

think he's got lots of market share and

I think he's going to grow his market

share and right and by the way, I think

Claude is going to win Anthrop is going

to win his case against the government,

Trump's going to lose that case, too,

>> right? So, when you look around, you're

like, look, take these risks and as long

as it's like it's not a a situation

where it's not a real business, right?

And in this case, um, Starlink is a real

business. The rocket business is a real

business. is a much smaller business

than ever than the valuation by far.

Especially when you you you zero out it

against a Facebook like it's it's worth

more than Facebook and Facebook has a

talk about a real real business that's

like a significant and ongoing business

and the threats Scott feels like there's

a real moat that they have. I never

think there's any moes ever especially

when you look at Tesla how quickly when

a couple years ago I was like Tesla's

going to get killed by China and

competitors and everyone's like no

Tesla's the winner. I'm like, there's no

way they're keeping a 70% market share.

It's not happening. And of course, it's

gone down and down and he lost interest

in it. And instead of putting out really

innovative cars, he put out the Cybert

truck, right? And so you once I saw the

Cybertruck, I'm like that this thing is

watch out below. But his particular, as

you said, uh you know, he has a lot of

misses, but he has a lot of wins. And so

you kind of have to go with him in that

regard in this particular thing. What

will you be looking for specifically in

>> just one thing because this is something

we have to accept and that's called

memeification.

>> And so we have to accept that there's a

prolific number of bewarming retail

investors, Wall Street bet like

investors

that are with Elon and that there's a

personality cult around Elon that is

affecting valuation. And by the way,

they are way sturdier than any of my

shortselling buddies

>> thought. And they've knocked out a lot

of my short selling buddies.

>> So I would just tell people, listen, I'm

a I'm a market realist, okay? I'm not a

market purist,

>> okay? I Yes, I've read Buffett and

Buffett is the papay uh edict giver of

value. You know, we're gonna get to

Bitcoin, but Buffett thinks Bitcoin's

rat poison or rat poison squared and all

this other stuff. But the the point I'm

making is that I'm a market realist, not

a market idealist. And this man, Elon

Musk, has a memeification

in bed in him. It may not last forever,

but there's a memeification in bed in

there. And that I am not too proud or

too idealist to take advantage of it.

Okay, that's all. You know, it was

interesting. I one time I called

Berkshire H because he had never made an

internet investment. This was a decade

ago or more, more than that. It was more

than that. And I called up to ask him. I

wanted I was doing a was the Wall Street

Journal, so it was a long time ago. And

I I called up and I said, "I'd like, you

know, I thought I was going to get a PR

person." And the phone rings through and

it's him. And I was like, "Oh, hi, hi

there, Warren Buffett." And he's like,

"I just don't believe in this internet

thing." And I was like, "I think you're

wrong. I can't believe I'm giving you

advice, sir." Um but he was very much

against internet investments and he he

admitted he was wrong about it much

later like that he was wrong about all

of them and there is some value in

understanding it's going to take a while

for people to catch up to Musk in this

area but as I always say they will catch

up because it's a great market right as

you say if we have these data centers in

space if you think he's going to be the

only one running the show you're

absolutely wrong people will r greedy

people will rush into the business

whether it's Amazon with Kyper or

whatever. Um, it's it's going to be a

lot of people, but it'll take his

attention, which he it fell away from

because I think he he got redpilled in

many ways. Um, it'll if if his attention

waines, it's in trouble. If it doesn't,

it's hard to compete with him and his

meme vacation, as you talk about. I

think you're right.

>> Portfolio approach. I own a lot of them

and and some of them will work, some of

them won't. But my lesson from 30 years

ago is I wasn't bold enough. And and and

again I'm talking about 5% 7% of the

capital,

>> but not the whole thing.

>> Yeah, that's all

>> right. What very briefly, Bitcoin? We

got to get to their stories.

>> Uh after Bitcoin is in a significant

bare market. Uh Bitcoin uh Bitcoin got

hurt by Trump. Uh, I know the Trump

lovers and the Trump crypto lovers don't

like me saying this, but I said when

those meme coins came out, Trump and

Melania memecoins, he's going to crush

us. He's going to hurt us because he

hurts everything that he touches. And so

what ended up happening is the

regulation that should have been passed

uh didn't get passed because of the

hatred of Trump. And so so a result of

which we're in a typical Bitcoin bare

market. So it's 66,000 almost

>> 66,000 but it's been pretty sturdy

during the Iranian war.

>> And I I would

>> but it hasn't rushed upwards which one

would

>> but I would say to Bitcoin enthusiasts

this is a typical four-year cycle having

cycle situation this point in the cycle

Bitcoin loses roughly half of its value.

It did. I'll make a prediction on your

show. I've been humbled by markets

probably could be wrong. I think the

$60,000 bottom is in for Bitcoin and I

think that Bitcoin starts to rally in

the fourth quarter, which would be

consistent with the 4-year cycle of

Bitcoin. So, even though you've got more

buyers in Bitcoin, you were offset by

whale selling in the last 12 months. And

guess what? You got the typical

four-year cycle of Bitcoin. And since

I'm a long-term holder, I'm okay with

that. I mean, you're right. Trump came

in and made a mess of it by by all the

shitcoins, all the all the scams, and so

it it linked to Bitcoin quite

>> and he sucked so much money, political

donations into his coffers from guys

that thought Trump was going to help

him. He doesn't help people.

>> He doesn't help people.

>> He doesn't like people because they

don't like the trough. We are in the

trough of Bitcoin. All right, I'm going

to keep that prediction. We'll find out.

Um, all right, Anthony, we're going to a

quick break. When we come back, we'll

talk about those photos of Christine

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Anthony, we're back and Scott is going

to be very sad he's missing this one.

Christine Gnome is quote devastated and

blindsided by the allegations that her

husband is it Brian's activities in

online fetish communities. Earlier this

week, the Daily Mail published an

investigation into Gnome's husband,

which included a photo of him wearing

pink hot pants and fake breasts with

nipples. Uh, the story also alleges he

spent at least $25,000 communicating

with WIMO of women in the bimboication

scene. I didn't know about this, but

fascinating, which fetishes people with

surgical enhancements. Republicans are

party family values. These this couple

was particularly performative. I I don't

know what to say here. I I just don't

know.

>> I'm in hot water with my mother-in-law

because last night when I came home, I

said, "Ma, were you in one of those chat

rooms?" She got pissed. Oh, no. Was bad,

right? But look at me because I know

Scott Galloway isn't here.

>> I got a picture.

>> But I brought pops. See? Pops. See?

>> What is that? Is that them?

>> Those are boobies. They're actually

dodge balls that my kids play with. But

you could put the boobies on. Do you

want me to send you them?

>> No, I don't.

>> Do you want to wear these later or

>> No, I do not. Do not dare. Don't you

dare put them on.

>> Okay. I'm not putting them on because I

don't want to make fun of somebody. But

I just say I did bring

>> Let me say let me say what I think. I

feel sad for this guy because I think he

has um I I um Listen, I'm from San

Francisco. If you want to marry a goat,

I'm pretty okay with it. Not great with

it, but that's okay.

>> I'm okay with it.

>> Yeah. Uh I think it's it's he obviously

has an interest and I don't I find

fetishes somewhat interesting and I

think you should express yourself and

it's not hurting anybody, right? Is it

really hurting anybody that he likes

this? No. He seems he see my part is he

seems very sad about liking it, right?

And that you know some of these actually

some of the women he was he hired are

actually quite wise. I have to say some

of these sex workers are like well he

really liked it and he seemed sad and I

was trying to make him have fun because

he seemed stressed and they're the most

reasonable people in this entire affair.

Um so I felt bad for him that he had

this furt of life and he couldn't

express himself. That's one. I also

think he's in huge hypocrite in that all

this performative religious stuff when

he's has a life that's more interesting

and more unusual and he should have that

life without feeling shamed shame

himself in her case. I do think uh she

did know about it. I suspect she did. I

don't think it's any excuse for her

behavior with uh Cory Luwendowski. I

don't I think I part of I put this stuff

up saying I felt sad for this guy and

everyone's like don't you know that Cory

Luwendowski leaked this to get the focus

off of them and their and what we should

be focusing on not this poor guy which

is sad but uh for him I wish he enjoyed

himself more as I said um but on their

on their grift right their enormous

grift and what happened there and the

investigations into the two of them and

their behaviors in there and by

extension Donald Trump should continue

and focus in on those two.

>> We've normalized corruption, which is

hopefully we'll have to come back from

that as well. But we will.

>> Here's here's three quick things I would

say. Number one, you're coming down from

heaven and you're on the assembly line

and there are some fetishes like feet

fetishes or eyelash fetish. I don't know

what the fetishes are, but then the

supervisor stops the assembly line and

brings out the inflatable boobies and

said, "Hey, we're sending you to Earth

with these." Okay. I mean, that was a

rough one. Okay. So, I feel bad for the

guy because I think you're born with

that maybe. Number two,

>> okay, MAGA men

>> are repressing a lot of stuff and you

know that my buddy Don Lemon tells me

that the Grinder stuff lights up at all

these Christian conservative things.

Okay, we spot Lindsey

>> Graham with the magic wand down in Walt

Disney World.

>> Yes. Just so people don't know, he was

at Disney World with a little mermaid

bubble wand in one photo and waiting in

line for Space Mountain in another. He

said he was meeting with Trump and Steve

Whitoff and then went to Orlando to meet

friends just for a quick You never go

quickly to Disneyland. Um

>> look look look the the problem is the

repression is the problem, right? Like

so to me

>> I'm going to tell you that MAGA men are

repressing a lot of stuff and then

they're taking it out on the rest of us,

right? Like if you read The Velvet Rage

by Allen DS,

>> okay guys, relax. Whatever it is,

whatever your orientation is,

>> let it go. Nobody cares. Okay, we're in

a totally different environment.

>> The fine words of Frozen. Let it go.

>> I I Yeah, exactly. I think these guys

are

>> can't hold it back anymore.

>> You know, you know this, Cara. Born in

the

>> I let it go a long time.

>> Born in the 40s and 50s

>> and with all of that repression. Okay.

And who the hell knows what Donald

Trump's father did to him as a kid? The

guy's a repressed sad guy, okay? He's

decorating the Oval Office like

Liberace. He wants the ballroom. He took

over the Kennedy Performing Arts Center.

He wants to take his pain out on us.

Calm down. Let it all go. Okay? And I

feel bad for this guy, but I'm telling

you, this type of repression, for some

reason, has found its way into our

politics. And then the last point, cuz I

had three last.

>> That's a serious point.

>> The last point. Look at me. Look at me.

>> I thought you were just going to make

booby jokes, but go ahead.

>> Last point. Look at me. Look at me.

>> Look at me, too.

>> I'm a normal [ __ ] guy. I can't

believe I thought I was a Ludy tune. I'm

in the bell curve of normal male

>> nuttiness.

>> I know. But let me ask you,

>> crazy. I I thought I was nuts until I

met these [ __ ] people.

>> No, you're totally boring compared to

most of these people. I'm living.

>> What does it do to What does it do to

She has no political prospects now,

correct? Or will she go the I didn't

know I'm a

>> victim. They took They took the couple

hundred million off the ad thing. So,

what did they do? They put the $200

million into the ad thing. They hired a

consultant. The consultant skimmed like

they do with these political action

committees. Let me let me tell people

from Pivot, guys, never put any money in

a political action committee because

what they do is the cronies at the top,

they skim all the money and they charge

a 15, 20, 30% advertising consulting fee

and they're laughing at you. They're

laughing at you. Okay. So, what Gnome

and Corey did was took the money, okay,

and they diverted it and they're going

to go live somewhere. God bless them.

They got some money. Okay.

>> Mhm. I don't want to make the money like

that.

>> Well, they they'll they'll be they will

have a problem. They'll have legal

problems forever. I would assume that

she has no presidential prospects.

Correct. Cuz I know that was

>> No, she's got she's got no presidential

prospects, but she's also

>> Come on. You these are the people that

we want running the country. Come on.

>> No.

>> Okay. I mean, you're shooting at You're

shooting at people. You're kidnapping

kids with ICE and you're proud of it and

you're riding around on your horse. You

know, I did see one great meme though.

You mind if I share it? You know, we had

the [ __ ] marry, kill.

>> So, we had to marry the guy with the big

boobies. We're [ __ ] Cy and we're

killing the dog. I thought that was

really funny. Okay. All right. But

anyway, sorry.

>> That's a good one. That's good. Uh, it's

interesting though. It's It's really

interesting. Someone a company that I

didn't think was going to do it. I'm

friends with Harvey Leven from TMZ, but

he's been publishing photos after asking

people to submit pictures of lawmakers

on vacation during the DHS shutdown. And

I'll note, it's a bipartisan shaming

targeting Democrats and Republicans

alike. It's part of a larger push by

TMZ, which has amped up its political

coverage, showing what it calls the

intersection of politics and pop

culture. I kind of like that they're

doing this so you can let us see you

what you're doing versus how you're

talking, right?

>> You're exposing the hypocrisy, you know.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And and here's the thing

I would tell you. You know, they they

had thun last week bypassing the entire

TSA at the uh Reagan airport. I think he

was in or maybe Dallasos. And guy,

you're a hip hop. You know, you're

hypocrite. You know, fix fix the

country. You know, there's a 14%

approval rating for the Congress. It's

just slightly above Kim El Jung. Okay.

But you know what? 95% of these guys get

reelected because of gerrymandering and

Citizens United. They pick the voters.

That's the only thing they're able to

do. Are we in a real democracy, Carara?

Where the politicians pick the voters? I

thought the voters were supposed to pick

the politicians. And they get unlimited

money from the corporates. And so they

can stay in power. It would be like you

and I opening up a restaurant. Our food

sucks. We got onestar Yelp ratings, but

we can't ever get fired.

>> Right.

>> Okay. It's it's it's appalling.

>> Yeah, it is. And they I think they're

paying the price for it, though. I love

that these pictures are there. I think

people should do more of this exposure.

Like, here's how they live. Here's how

they behave. I did like when Delta said,

"We're not going to let them jump the

line if they're on Delta, you know,

we're not going to let them have special

things." And now I think things are

calming down at airports. Apparently,

TSA's sort of started to organize it a

little better, but it's still the fact

that they can't pass a basic funding

bill um is really quite something, you

know, without making everything

partisan. All right, one more quick

break. will be back for predictions.

Okay, Anthony, let's hear a prediction.

>> All right, so listen, you know, listen,

first of all, happy Easter and happy

Passover to you and your family.

>> And I'm gonna I'm gonna make three

predictions. Uh so the first prediction,

Pam Bondi is long gone.

>> Okay, Zeldon will replace her. Uh they

have gutted the Department of Justice

and it's become the Trump family law

firm.

>> And so that's actually good for these

Supreme Court decisions because they got

nobody there to argue these stupid

cases. but just very bad for the

country. Number two, and I think this is

also uh one that I don't like, is that

we're going to have ground troops in

Iran. And again, the bomb the people

back to the stone age was to degrade

them in such a way where we can put the

ground troops in. And then my last

prediction is that the Chinese are going

to be involved in a resolution of this.

And so what Trump is going to do, and

this is the reason why he delayed the

meeting with Shei. He's going to get the

people at the Car Island. He's going to

get them in the straight. He's going to

shut off the oil. He's going to pick up

the phone and call Shei and say,

"Listen, you're getting 40 50% of your

oil out of here. And this is a satellite

state of yours. You got to secularize

that state, and you got to let me and

the UN or whoever go in there and take

the uranium out of there. And when we're

doing that, when we're done doing that,

I'm going to open the oil spot again and

you can have the oil. I understand that

you got to run your economy and I want

to be a cooperative economic competitor

of yours and I do need those rare earth

minerals. But that third prediction

>> is is where we're going on the chess

board

>> because there are some smart people in

the Pentagon and now that they're in

this thing,

>> that why not take advantage?

>> That's what that's where they're going.

So those are my three predictions.

>> Might as well. But that could cause a

lot of deaths, American deaths, which

could be

>> unintended consequences. But they don't

care. You know, he doesn't care. You're

an object in Trump's field of vision.

You're not a person. So, he doesn't

care.

>> We might as well take advantage of this

the situation. Let me ask you, what do

you think of Lee Zelden?

>> Well, Lee, I know a long time. You know,

Lee Lee was district one out here on

Long Island.

>> Yeah, he was the House of

Representatives guy out here. He's a

conservative guy. He ran for governor

here. Uh Lee is

>> formerly reasonable as I recall but then

became crazy.

>> That's where I was going. So Lee is in

that group of people that went into the

MAGA chamber and came out with the red

hat and the long tie and the cuckoo

laala. But he was not that way. But now

he is. And so we'll have to see. Yeah.

We'll have to see how many piouettes

he's willing to do for Donald Trump to

destroy his reputation, too. Because

that's what you do. You go in. I want

the power. I want the significance.

Trump moves the goalposts on you. Hey,

Carara,

prices are going down. No forever wars.

We're ending our involvement in the

Middle East. Okay. Okay. Well, now are

you guys loyal to me? Yes, you're loyal

to me. Now, we're going to do the

opposite of that. We're moving the

goalpost. You got to stay loyal to me.

And so that's Lee Zeldon is the type of

kid he's going to look back on this

because I know how he grew up, you know,

uh, and you know, he's out here on Long

Island with me. He's going to look back

on this and say, "Wow, I really screwed

this up. I shouldn't have done the

things that I'm doing."

>> So, is there a lack of There are a lot

of Republicans. I just interviewed Tom

Tillis. He's sort of run out of fog.

There's a lot of people that to me, even

Marjorie Taylor Green. Do you see a push

back anywhere? And and what are the

implications of that? Are you seeing and

I'm not talking about like the goan no

thoon goes down as a scarecrow. You know

it goes down as one of the worst of the

worst. You know like when we have you

and I will be dead or maybe because of

the red light therapy on your new show

you and I will be alive but it'll be 50

years from now

>> and the people going to look back and

say what the hell happened

>> and John Thun is the poster boy for

cowardice. Okay. Because he could have

called Schumer and he could have said

hey we're shutting this down. Okay, we

are article one of the constitution for

a reason and we're shutting this down.

You and I are going to the White House

today and we're going to tell this

[ __ ] that he's the most unamerican

president that's ever lived and we're

going to go in a different direction or

we're going to blow him out of the seat.

But he didn't do that because he's got

no kones and he wants personal power

over the serving of the public and he

wants to bypass the security line.

Okay. And guy, you used to be a good

guy. I knew you a long time when I was

on the Romney campaign. You were a good

guy, but you are now a loser.

>> So, what happens? Very brief. What

happens to these? Because something's

going to happen after November.

>> They've lost in Palm Beach. They've lost

in Kansas. They've lost They're losing

They'll lose the midterms on the House.

They won't lose the Senate.

>> Trump Trump will go maybe they'll lose

the Senate, but they won't lose it

enough for Trump to get impeached

because they need twothirds vote.

>> Trump will strongarm everybody. The last

two years will be about grifting and

making money and market manipulation

because they've telling people they want

to be the richest family after they

leave. And on the 19th of January, he

will pardon himself and his family

members and the people that are close to

him. And he'll drop that in the lap of

the Supreme Court and the Congress is

whether or not a president can pardon

themselves. and he will leave an unbuilt

ballroom and a complete catastrophic

[ __ ] storm for whoever the cleanup crew

is going to be. And uh and by the way,

as people have said, in a democracy, you

sometimes get the people that you

deserve. And we'll have to look at

ourselves and say, how did we let that

happen? And this is the point of the

book that I'm writing which you've been

nice enough to read for me is that we

let this happen through bad

decisionmaking but we left out the

people Carara that you and I grew up

with who once felt unbelievable about

the American dream and unbelievable

about the my father was making money by

the hour. He was a union guy but he was

like you know what my kids are going to

live the American dream. Let's get to

work. Now those people are like, "Hey

man, I can't get a job." And by the way,

my kids are not going to get a job. [ __ ]

you people. Burn it down. And we've got

to go. You talk about burn book. How

about burn the whole thing? Burn the

social contract.

>> So it's burnt. So now

>> So now we got to get some people in

there that are postpartisan

transformational leaders that going to

want to restate a vision for the

country. Like I said, we go through this

every 83 years. We're in our 250th year

anniversary. Here are the things that we

need to do to redeem ourselves. We have

to clean up these certain things that

have happened. We have to take big

business, big pharma, big zillionaires

out of the political equation. We

created a separate but equal democracy

with Citizens United. That's the pie

versus Ferguson case of our democracy.

Brown Board of Education overturned

that. We're 16 years out from Citizens

United. We have to overturn it and we

got to put these rich people back in a

box where they belong where one vote

equals one vote.

>> I'm gonna ask one final question. Who

are pick two people who would be someone

on each side? Two people you are like

those people could do that right now. Or

don't they? We don't know.

>> No, I mean listen you know you know here

here's the thing, okay? Like your

roommate Scott

>> Galloway,

>> okay? He's the type of guy that could

actually pull it off. Honestly, I think

he could pull it Cuban. Why you laugh?

You don't think he could pull it? I

think he could actually.

>> Not Scott, but Cuban. Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. All right. Cuban. I mean,

somebody like that could probably pull

it off.

>> But then they have to do something that

is ridiculously Lincolnesque in terms of

its heroism.

>> You got to piss every single person off

in power to reframe the argument. Okay.

Teddy Roosevelt got the Robert Barons in

place and said, "Hey, MFS, we're going

to break up your trusts. We're going to

knock out your monopolies. I got it.

These poor people, the tenementss are

coming down on them and they're going to

come after you with a pitchfork and a

torch. You want them to set fire to your

mansion? Knock it off.

>> Knock it off." So, it requires somebody

that doesn't care about the power

structure. And that's why I can't name

somebody because everybody that's in the

power

>> cares about the power structure. I don't

give a [ __ ] about the power.

>> It has to be you and me. It has to be

you and me. That's what's going to

happen.

>> You can have the top job by the way.

Okay. We'll give you the top job.

>> I don't want the top job.

>> I would be so bad. I would You'll be the

red light therapy president. Okay.

You'll be

>> No way. Those things longevity

president.

>> Don't work. Don't work. But sauna

president. The sauna.

>> Sauna. I'm just being a sauna naked.

I'll do from there. Anyway, Anthony, as

always, fantastic. Uh, and

>> I love being on with you. Thank you for

inviting me back. And tell Scott I miss

him and wish him a happy Easter for me.

>> Listeners, we want to hear from you. Let

us know what you think of Anthony. Send

us your questions about business, tech,

or whatever's on your mind. Go to

nymag.com/pivot.

Submit a question for the show or call

855-51 Pivot. This is a big week for

both of us. We got nominated for Webbby

Awards. Pivot and Onw with Carara

Swisser got nominated. and your limited

series podcast with Scott Lost Boys also

got nominated. Uh we want your vote

because we're not too proud to beg. Um

go to the link in the episode

description to vote for us. I'm very

pleased for you. Uh and congratulations

and I I will see you next week. Okay,

that's the show. Thanks for listening to

Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe

to our YouTube channel. We'll be back

next week. I will read us out. Today's

show was produced by Larara Neon, Zoe

Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie

Anderdat engineered this episode. Manola

Mareno edited the video. Nishhat Kerwa

is Vox Media's executive producer of

podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot and

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You can subscribe to the magazine at

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We'll be back next week for another

breakdown of all things tech and

business. Thank you, Anthony.