do you believe the robots are going to

raise our kids because it feels like a

slippery slope well it's not too far

away from us and we never evolve to want

children look the fertility rates are

going way down a lot of countries are

going to be literally half their size by

the year 2100 because they're shrinking

so fast and the list is really long

about how hard it is to raise the child

into today's world so you want to make

having kids to be as much of the plus as

it possibly can be and with the perfect

robot Nanny you would never worry at all

interesting Dr William Von hipple is the

world-renowned evolutionary psychologist

who has spent decades studying and

finding the answers to how instincts

that once helped our ancestors survive

still drive us today often in ways we

don't even realize as a species what are

we getting wrong well young people

having less sex than they were 20 years

ago marriage are steadily going down and

our lives are so much better but we're

not any happier and part of the problem

is that we're constantly choosing to do

our own thing rather than connect so

here's the data in 18501 in 100 of

Americans lived alone now it's 1 in

seven in the 1970s one in three people

spent time with their neighbors now

that's completely reversed now let's

dive a little deeper 50% of humanity now

lives in the city then they're about 25%

wealthier than people who live in the

country and yet the data shows people in

the country are happier because cities

are all about I want to do what I want

and the problem is that we can't

introduce social connection into our

life willy-nilly or we won't keep it up

so what do we do about that two things

one and then what does evolution tell us

about how to attract the opposite sex

you want honest signals of quality and

bizar Le one of the clearest honest

signals for men to demonstrate for women

as

I have been forced into a bet with my

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[Applause]

[Music]

awful Dr William Von

hipple what have you spent the last four

Decades of your life doing oh mostly in

the lab trying to figure out why humans

do what they do what do you mean by what

we why we do what we do well I'm super

interested in not just what we do but

what the underlying cause might be you

know why does um having a nice dinner

with your friends make you happy it just

seems inherently obvious well of course

it does but there's got to be a reason

for that and there's got to be a reason

that it's very different if it's not

with your friends or if it's different

kinds of foods or you know the list goes

on it could be anything and so what I

try to do is I I look into our

evolutionary history I say how did we

get here what were the factors that made

us success and the things that made us

successful are likely to as a species

are likely to be the things that make us

happy because happiness is one of the

tools that Evolution uses to guide us in

the direction that it wants us to go you

know Evolution has no foresight but

evolution um shapes us the way we are

and the things that make us successful

those ancestors who enjoy doing those

things are going to be the ancestors who

have more kids then the ancestors who

enjoyed doing things that were bad for

them what is evolution so evolution is

as mind this process and all it is is if

if it's the case that not everybody has

the exact same number of kids and if

it's the case that not everybody's kids

survive at the exact same rates now we

have the room for evolution because

there's variability something about me

caused me to have lots of children that

survived in the Next Generation and

something about this other guy caused

him not to have any maybe and so

whatever there is about me that's

heritable will will be well represented

in the Next Generation and about him

poor guy even if he's wonderful those

are gone and so Evolution just works

with whatever's there and the things

that make you a success either because

they're just useful in that environment

or they are a new mutation that turns

out to have great value they becoming

they become over represented in the gene

pool and so Evolution can create things

that are species typical all of our

species have that we all have two eyes

you know that's just part and parcel of

Being Human and then it can make

variability within humans and there's

tons of variability in our size our

stature all sorts of things about us and

why should we we look at Evolution for

answers on human happiness and success

and as a sort of of a guiding compass

for what we should be doing with our

Lives why is evolution the place to look

there's lots of tiny answers to that

question but they don't necessarily link

together very well so people say You'

probably heard oh Express gratitude

that'll make you happy if you Express

gratitude why why should that make you

happy if if there's a good reason for it

then it makes sense that we should do it

and it should have some kind of a

lasting effect and so every single thing

that people tell you this will make you

happy there has to been a reason it must

have done something for our ancestors or

it's what um my colleague Robert triers

calls a phenotypic Indulgence which

means it mimics something that was good

for our ancestors so for example you

know video games are pretty novel right

they may mimic things that were super

important for our ancestors and and give

us the same endorphin rush or whatever

even though they're not actually

necessarily good for us anymore junk

food is the same it's loaded fat salt

sugar those are the kinds of things that

are ancestors s it all the time uh we

don't need them anymore but but they

were super important back then and so it

makes us happy when we eat those things

as a evolutionary psychologist and

someone who understands where we've come

from and therefore are sort of innate

behaviors and needs and desires and so

on what are the things that we're

getting wrong as a species at the moment

from your view so the big thing that I

think we're getting wrong is the balance

that we maintain between autonomy and

connection and the we can can talk about

why this is but the big thing that we've

got wrong right now is doing what I want

to do right now rather than connecting

autonomy is all about self-governance

what do I feel like doing right now and

everybody's going off in their own

Direction and this is not good for us

it's not good for our happiness it's not

going to for us in a host of different

ways that mistake is particularly

problematic if you live in the west if

you're well educated and if you live in

cities and if you're wealthy so if

you're Western wealthy urbanite well

educated you've got that problem in

Spades and by autonomy you mean the sort

of individualism where I don't need

anybody anymore it's about me it's about

my gratification what I want now versus

others and a community a tribe that's

right and it doesn't even need to feel

like a big thing it's just let's say you

and I are buddies and we're going to go

to a movie and you say I really want to

hit a romc com and I'm like I really

want to see an action movie we go okay

I'll see if the movie's over we just go

our own ways and so it could be trivial

little things but it's across our lives

we're continually setting aside our

connections to do what we want and what

are the some of the sort of stats that

illuminate this problem from that make

it clear that this is actually happening

in your view so there's a number of them

um you can look at the propensity of

Americans to live alone we've got good

data in the States but the picture is

the same in every industrialized country

in 1850 1% of Americans lived alone now

it's so one in 100 now it's one in seven

so you know here we are 170 years L 175

years later and it used to be crazy rare

and now it's one in seven is pretty darn

common if you look in in the 1970s when

I was a kid um about 30% of people saw

their neighbors got together with their

neighbors not visually seeing them but

got together with their neighbors um at

least a few times a week and only one in

five pretty much never saw their

neighbors at all now that's completely

reversed now only one and five are

seeing their neighbors regularly used to

be one and three and now one and three

never get together with their neighbors

at all so we're we're moving away from

each other in a host of different ways

even married couples are spending less

time together they're it's weird we

don't understand what they're doing but

what I suspect is happening is that

let's say that you both want to exercise

and she kind of likes to jog and you

kind of like to lift weights we used to

sort of do those together off for a jog

and then a little weightlifting but now

with 10 zillion options you go to your

gym and she goes to hers and you just

don't see each other as much as you used

to so across our lives we're spending

far more time alone and if look at

marriage and

cohabitation in some parts of the world

they haven't changed at all but in the

wealthy Parts United States western

Europe they're steadily going down so

it's not just well people aren't getting

married because they're living together

outside of marriage if you lump all

those together they're steadily going

down over the last 50 years and why does

that matter well the question is first

on the one hand it's not a problem at

all you vote with your feet do what you

want of course right but on the other

hand what if it's making you unhappy

what if you think you're doing this this

because it's going to make you happy but

in fact you're wrong and you keep making

decisions over and over again that make

you increasingly less happy and that's

what I think is happening here I think

every one of those decisions is an error

and are are there any stats or data that

proves

that we're getting this wrong in terms

of Happiness are there other tribes or

communities or people in history that

were doing it differently and had higher

rates of Happiness so the best example

in my mind is if you look at unto

gathers and so uh there's a team that

went to the hodza people who live

outside would live Kenya and Tanzania

they're as close as we know to what our

ancestors would look like and in my mind

they're perfect because they're also

where it all happened the hza still

lived where Humanity evolved so of

course it could have been different a

quar to million years ago but it could

have been exactly like they live today

and so when you look at the hza this

particular team ask them over the last

week have you been happy sometimes happy

and sometimes sad sad over 90% of the

hza said happy that was their answer

answer when you ask westerners that same

question you get about 50% will say

happy over the last week and so the data

suggests the hodza are literally happier

than we are now they they bury almost

half their children they they live a

life where they've got no savings

whatsoever they've got nothing in the

bank they don't know what tomorrow's

going to bring they don't know if

tomorrow's Hunt's going to be successful

they have so many cultural rules that

they have to abide by that requires them

to be constantly connected with each

other because they rely on each other

like an insurance policy and yet they

they look a lot happier than we are now

we can see those same stats in in

different modern contexts but in my mind

that's the stat that blows me away and

why do you think they are happier than

us you think it's because they're living

in tribes and groups or is it something

else well I think it's the balance that

they've struck and I think it's that

balance between connection and autonomy

and so that's really the focus of this

of my second book is so I'll tell you

how I got there how's that so I'm

visiting a friend of mine also named

Stephen and uh he struck it rich and he

invites me over I'm like this is going

to be cool I'm gonna see how the Super

Rich Live and it was over the top you

know this monumentally huge apartment

beautiful view Cooks over there Maids

over there Etc and so I turned him I'm

like Steve man your life is over the top

and he's like yeah it seems that way but

it's just not and I'm like seriously and

he goes yeah I'm no happier than I used

to be and he starts listing off all the

problems that he's facing and I'm like

how could this person not appreciate

these amazing benefit that he has how

how is it even possible that a person

could have so much and not just feel

happy about it every day and I have to

admit I felt the sense of superiority I

thought to myself if I were crazy rich

like you were I'd be happy every day I

would appreciate this lifestyle that ID

earned rather than just taking it for

granted so then fast forward a few years

this is a decade or so ago fast forward

a few years and I'm reading Frank

Marlo's wonderful book on the hza and

I'm reading about their lives and and

and how content they are and I'm like

holy cow I'm just like my friend Steve

compared to them I'm a multi-millionaire

I don't my when my kids get sick I'm off

to the doctor immediately I don't have

this horrible life for a bury Mo own

children I have savings I don't have to

worry about tomorrow I get up and get

something out of the fridge I'm

comfortable when it's hot I'm

comfortable when it's cold the list goes

on compared to them I'm a zillionaire

and yet they're probably happier than we

are and so I realized it's not just

Steve it's all of us you know we're

failing to appreciate this amazing

modern world we live in and you know

even if we look back hundred years I'm

years ago a quarter of the children died

by the 150 years ago a quarter of the

children died by the time they turned

five you know that you you got a the flu

or you got you know typhus there was

zillion diseases that just killed us

when we were young um women died in

child birth at rates way skyro compared

to today so it's not just looking back

at un togethers but even looking back

recently our lives are so much better

but we're not any happier if anything I

think we're maybe a little less happy

and is that just because we don't take a

moment to be grateful or is there

something fundamental about the way

we're pursuing happiness look I think

it's multicausal whenever you get a big

effect like that like if you take those

data seriously that I told you about the

hodza they're basically twice as happy

as we are now that's such a big effect

it has to be multia has to be a lot

going on there and of course these

changes happen over Generations they

don't happen overnight if they happen

overnight I think it'd be super obvious

to us what have gone wrong but I think

what what it returns us to is this

problem that we were talking about

before about autonomy in connection and

so let's take City living as a for

example remember earlier I said that

cities are about 5,000 years old so

human beings have been moving to cities

for 5,000 years by 1960 you had one

people out of every three living in

cities in in the world and by 2007 was

the year we crossed over 50% of humanity

now lives in the city so people have

been voting with their feet for a long

time but by long time I mean hundred so

years and mass moving to cities now

there's lots of reasons for it we can

talk about it but one of the costs is

happiness if you look at happiness and

you divide people up by whether they

live into in cities um communities over

a quarter million or in the country

communities less than 2 200 people

they're happier in the country than they

are in the city which is a remarkable

fact remarkable fact in part because

they're also poorer in the country

people who live in cities in the United

States for example are about 25%

wealthier than people who live in the

country now some of that it's burned on

comp on expensive city living but far

from all of it and so they you're

literally poorer in the country but

happier and that's this graph here that

from your book um percentage of

Americans who are very happy are not too

happy in urban and rural communities

that's right and it shows that people

are pretty significantly happier in R

rural areas and report to having less

unhappiness in rural areas which is

remarkable because there's so many

opportunities in cities people have been

voting with their feet for over 100

years and arguably for 5,000 years

moving to cities and yet it's making

them less happy and so in my mind this

is another symptom of the same exact

problem we've been talking about which

is cities are all about autonomy cities

are about opportunity if I go to City I

can get any kind of education I want I

can have any kind of job that I want and

so people are drawn to cities and of in

fact I'll make more money the data are

very clear but I'm going to pay a price

and people don't even realize the price

they're paying what is the price that we

pay we become more isolated yeah

bizarrely we become more isolated

because in the city you got a thousand

people right next to you right you're

you're cheek by gal with your neighbor

you're in an apartment building and

there's somebody on your left somebody

on your right somebody above you

somebody below you but what are your

chances you even know that person so if

you ask people there's a couple ways you

can ask the question if you say do you

know someone well enough that you trust

them with your house keys you're more

likely to give that answer a yes in the

country than you are in the city even

though in the country probably your

nearest neighbor is a long way down the

road whereas in the city your nearest

neighbor is 5T away that person 5T away

in principle you ought to be good

buddies with or if they you don't like

that person there's somebody else in

your building you ought to be good

buddies with but we're just not whereas

in the country we connect with each

other similarly if you say how satisfied

are you with your friendships people are

more satisfied with their friendships in

the country than they are in the city

there was a graph that I saw I think it

was in your book the percentage of

Americans who spend evenings with

Neighbors at different frequencies by

income and it basically shows that the

more money you have the less time you

spend with your neighbors yeah which is

amazing right and so the thing is that

the problem is that if you're rich you

don't need your neighbors you know if

I'm I'm out of coffee beans I want to

borrow some I can just drone them in or

whatever I I can I can call instacart or

whatever whoever your your favorite

deliveries um program is but if you're

poor you can't afford to do that and so

poor people literally need each other

they live in these neighborhoods in

these complex webs of interdependence

where they borrow each other's tools

they look out for each other's kids they

look out for each other's pets because

they can't afford to Outsource any of

that and that's it's actually how humans

evolved we evolved to need each other

all the time and so ironically although

rich people are happier than poor people

so it's not giving away all your

material Goods will not make you happy

nonetheless poor people are happier with

their friendships they're more likely to

get together their neighbors and we see

the exact same effect with education as

well the more educated you are the less

you get together with your neighbors but

of course wealth and education tend to

go hand inand in our society so money

does make you happy it's funny thing so

money makes you a lot happier in real

time so if you start to make more money

you get happier and the more important

money is to you the bigger that effect

is and it keeps going well past where we

thought it did we used to think it

sealing at around $100,000 a year it

doesn't past 600,000 a year money still

makes you happier it's it's remarkable

it makes a difference but there's this

thing known as the easterland Paradox

and that is that as Society gets richer

people get no happier so if you look at

the United States going back to around

1940 people earned about a third what

they earn today in real terms so we're

three times richer than we used to be

and we've been measuring um happiness in

the United States since 1940s on

representative samples so we know that

that holds true for the whole country we

know what the country looks like it

hasn't moved an inch so real terms money

gone way up happiness exactly flat so

what is the per perfect combination to

achieve happiness in that regard then

wealth does matter but something else

matters as well well which we tend to

abandon when we get wealth well the

problem is this there's a couple of

things first we can come back to the big

issue which I think is this balance

that's the underlying issue why why I

think H gathers are happier than we are

is this balance that they maintain

between autonomy and connection which we

can return to but in direct answer to

your question part of the problem with

humans is that we're this wonderful

species in many ways that we can avoid

this Zero Sum gain that is life and by

Zero Sum gain I mean that my gain is

your loss like there's only so many

Goods out there and for me to have more

means you have to have less and in the

animal world lots of the world works

that way and they're able to cooperate

with each other when they can create

positive some relationships so for

example vampire bats they go out and

they try to get blood from large animals

like land on their back bite them a

little bit and leave drink a little bit

of their blood if they don't get any

food at all at night they're at risk of

starvation within just a few nights and

so if I come home if I've come back and

I got nothing and you were successful

I'll beg to you and if we're friends

you'll regurgitate a little bit of the

blood for me now if if you weren't

successful even if we're best mates

there's nothing you can do for me now if

you think about the way humans give

things to each other it's sometimes

Goods but we're this different animal

we're this cognitive animal we're an

animal where information has enormous

value and information I can give it to

you without losing any of it myself and

so we create these these relationships

with each other where we don't even need

to worry about reciprocation we can do

things for each other all the time

they're crazy easy to do because they

don't require me to give you anything I

still have the information I told you so

we already have this advantage over the

animal

kingdom but we're still animals and one

of the ways that we're still animals is

that we're still zerm in the sense of

what about our status who's going to get

picked for the mating relationships

who's going to get picked to be on the

teams and there it always comes down to

well who's at the top of the local Heap

and who's at the bottom of the local

Heap and so in our ancestral communities

that would be a very small group of 100

gathers all I had to do was be valuable

or better than you guys in something in

our world today it's awfully hard to be

better than everybody and money is one

of the easiest most straightforward ways

to do it because everyone can see it and

so even though money doesn't make us

happy as the whole country is three

times richer we're no happier if I'm

richer than you I am happier than you

because that's one way that I can be

higher than in status and so then maybe

I can steal your girlfriend or maybe the

guys who are in your group who I really

want to be in my group are gonna say hey

Bill's cooler than Stephen I'm going

with him and so status matters it's a

process of sexual selection whereby both

sexes are always trying to CH get the

best partner they can of the opposite

sex and so they're competing with each

other men compete with men to try to

have women choose them women compete

with women to try to men choose them and

that's a zero sum status game and what

does evolution tell us about that that

competitive sort of Dating Game what

does it tell us if I'm trying to be

attractive as a man what I need to be

demonstrating in order to attract the

opposite sex as a human yeah so what

what you want are what we call Honest

signals of quality and the thing is that

we've all evolved to look through fake

signals and so lots of animals will

pretend to be things that they aren't um

they puff up their chest or raise up

their shackles or do something to look

big and intimidating we all we have

human ways of doing that too but in

humans

bizarrely well in in all animals

actually one of the clearest on signals

for men to demonstrate for women is what

is risk-taking now that seems bizarre

why would taking a risk attract females

well it it attracts females because

there's two outcomes when you take a

risk you either succeed showing just how

skilled you are at whatever the domain

is or you fail and either turn into a r

rash and therefore You' removed yourself

from the gene pool or you bounce right

back up because you're such a robust

organism in either case you're

demonstrating that's an honest signal of

quality when we follow the data over

time we see that high testosterone men

are more likely to pair up they take

these risks women find them attractive

at some level even if they don't

personally feel like it's attractive at

the moment but something about that is

attracted to them and it may only be

getting other men to back off when I

take these big risks you may say well

all right I'm not going to try to crowd

in on Bill scene he's too tough we don't

know with certainty but they take these

risks and then once they partner up then

their testosterone levels go back down

and they because once you have a family

taking risks are is foolish you want to

take risk to get in the Mating Game but

you don't want to keep taking taking

risk once you got people depending on

you so I've got honest signals of did

you say quality yeah honest signals of

quality as being attractive as as a man

I've got risk-taking what else things

like physical size is an honest signal

of quality things like wealth if you

earned all that money you know there's

inherited wealth we live in this kind of

funny world but it still gives you all

the advantages of wealth if you earned

it yourself there's uh ambition things

like that people look for ambition

because it's if you are out there

working hard the time it's an honest

signal that you're going to probably

continue to do that provide for somebody

Etc I often think about like personality

and why is humor a attractive quality in

men that's a great example humor is an

honest signal of quality now it's funny

because you could think well you could

just be funny by memorizing jokes but if

you think of your friends who are funny

they don't you don't sit down they go

hey did I tell you the one about Pat and

Mike that's not how people are funny you

know unless they're paid to do that up

on stage people are funny by making

connections that you hadn't thought of

by twisting the world 90° and linking

things together and that takes an agile

mind and you know there's more genetic

expression in our brain than anywhere

else in our body so it's a sign of good

genes and also we're a cognitive species

being smart is super important for men

and women that's how you succeed but as

humans we also care an enormous amount

about kindness and if that person who

has nothing else going for them is kind

that person's going to do well in life

because kindness ends up trumping

everything just because there's a host

of reasons for that one of which is that

if you're a kind person you're a great

partner to me even if you've got almost

no other good qualities you need some

minimal levels of competence but once

you cross minimal competence kindness

means you're going to look out for me

and that matters a lot do nice guys

finish last in the evolutionary World

they don't actually so the the good

thing about being in a nice guys they

they tend to finish first and so when we

look at Hunter gather communities and we

look at people choosing their Partners

to go out on hunts in the morning they

actually choose the nice guys over the

better Hunters now again you need a

minimal level of competence now

they pay a big price to finish burst

because lots of people take advantage of

them and so I share with you and you

never share back with me but if I'm a

nice guy I'm like that's okay you know

Steven will come around someday he'll

learn to share with me too or if he

doesn't that's okay he's a good guy and

I like to give him half my rabbit that I

caught so they they they're in Economist

terms they're suckers a lot they give a

lot more than they get but as far as

winning in the world everybody wants to

be with them what about for women in

terms of

Attraction if you you were to design a

perfectly attractive woman from an

evolutionary basis what would that woman

be like the different the the factors

that matter for women are different for

men because men are fertile throughout

their whole lives and it's so easy to be

fertile you're you you're making 100

million sperm a day whatever that number

is they're tiny little cells you can

just do it even if you're old and

desiccated fertility is crazy hard for a

woman you need to be um under the age of

40 basically once our ancestral females

hit 40 they almost never reprodu anymore

and we could talk about why that is it's

an interesting evolutionary solution to

a problem but then during that time you

have to be wellfed and you have to be

healthy because it's super hard to

maintain a pregnancy that's you know

nine months where if you're not getting

enough food it's hard to feed that fetus

so for women they need fat on their

bodies which was hard in our ancestral

world that meant they're wellfed they

need to be healthy and they need to be

young and so when you have those

qualities that's more important than

anything else for men because when it

comes down to it

living forever is nice but evolution

doesn't care about it if you don't

reproduce reproduction is the currency

of evolution and so what men are looking

for in a partner is somebody who's

reproductive who's fertile so is

attraction an evolutionary thing in your

view versus like a social thing it's

well it's always both right you know

humans are are wildly malleable and you

can move things around in crazy ways you

know what look at what what people found

attractive just 50 years ago compared to

today but there's a lot of Basics that

underly it and so for example

if you look at the actual shape of women

and their hip to- waist ratio whether

the bum is big or not big in the current

climate the hip to waist ratio doesn't

change and that's because that hip to

waist ratio is correlated with fertility

but the size of your bum not so much and

in fact when women deposit fats Prem

menopause they deposit them on their

thighs and their bum which is where

those fats are really good for the baby

they help neural development you know

your brain is loaded with fat when

you're in utero you need your mother to

have lots of fat ideally on her bum and

thigh because that's going to help feed

your growing brain so there's like a

perfect hip to weight ratio yeah yeah

and it rarely changes so there's

analyses of like every Playboy bunny

from 1950 to whenever I don't know if

Playboy even exists anymore but and and

they always had the exact same ratio

even though the actual weight of the

model would have changed dramatically

they went from pretty heavy in Marilyn

Mon Rose day to really really skinny for

a while and then back to heavier again

do men typically care for woman's Rich

from an evolutionary perspective does it

matter in principle it doesn't matter

much I mean remember but there's there's

your phenotype you're you're you want to

be well taken care of but but as far as

what you're actually attracted to um

women so so we call it sexual plasticity

that women have evolved to basically be

able to find almost any guy attractive

because the qualities that are going to

make men successful are often on the

inside because remember I told you all

men are fertile even when they get

really old so a skinny guy a fat guy a

strong guy a weak guy they're all

fertile you don't have to worry about

that but what you do have to worry about

is raising kids is really hard you want

help so you want somebody who's going to

be successful and hunting you want

somebody who's going to look out for you

and your kids these are the variables

that really matter and and so women look

for that and that means they need to be

able to fall in love with you know the

Bill Gates of the world who aren't these

big Macho guys but can really take care

of you and so women have a lot more of

what we call sexual plasticity than men

men have a particular shape they're

looking for and a particular appearance

on average because that correlates with

fertility now if you then have a choice

oh here's one who's poor and here's the

one who's rich you're going to go with

the one who's rich right but if you look

at male rock stars and and and male

businessmen people who are really rich

and famous the the women that they um

date and marry go are entirely across

the social class Spectrum some are super

rich some are super poor a waitress has

a great chance with MC Jagger um and so

does some high society Elite person

but if you turn around the other way a

waiter doesn't have much chance with

this Rich female or rock star sometimes

but way less likely and that's because

women are looking for features of status

and dominance in men and men don't care

about that as much in women what is the

basis for homosexual relationships and

evolution so homosexuality is a really

interesting question we see it across

the Animal Kingdom so we know that we're

not the only species who does it but we

we don't often see exclusive

homosexuality in the animal kingdom that

seems to be much more common in humans

nobody's 100% sure sure why it is but

the best evidence I've ever seen the

best evolutionary evidence comes out of

this lab of a colleague of mine an ex-

colleague of mine brandan Z and what he

shows is that most human behaviors are

driven by a number of genes not just one

we call them polygenic a whole bunch of

genes contribute to a particular

behavior and especially a complex

Behavior like so homosexuality and so

there's going to be a polygenic score

for homosexuality and the more of those

the higher your polygenic score is the

more likely you are to be attracted to

same sex um and it works a ton bit

different than men and women but

basically the same and what Brendan

argued and has now demonstrated is that

as you gain more gay genes genes that

make you more attracted to the opposite

sex but you're not completely homosexual

yet you're more attractive to the

opposite sex you're more attractive yeah

so men who have more gay genes but are

still straight have more sexual partners

than men who have fewer gay genes and

are also straight so being a little bit

gay is super attractive to women being

too gay maybe they're attracted to you

but you don't care anymore because now

you're only attracted to men and so from

an evolutionary perspective it's this

Balancing Act you want to give men

enough gay genes so that women are

attracted to them but not so many that

they don't care about

women

okay which kind of feels like a bit of a

contradiction to the idea that

testosterone and risk taking and being

brwn and being well mascul some gay men

are feminine but some gay men are very

masculine they're hyper masculine so

there's both

types you can be gay and be wildly

masculine or you can be gay and be quite

feminine so what is it what is it about

the being a little bit gay like what are

the features what are the what are the

features of being a little bit gay we

know the genes um this C this paper was

published in um science if I remember

right a few years ago and laid out the

genes and they don't make sense some of

them relate to your sense of smell there

we don't understand these polygenic

scores very well yet but if I had to

guess um you know if you think of

extreme straight males versus gay Mal

gay males are much cleaner they look

after their themselves their bodies much

better their their hygiene's much better

they take you know they're their sense

of Aesthetics is much better and so

maybe being a little bit gay means

you're metrosexual and now you've got

these qualities where where you're not

so downright disgusting to

women one of the one of the things that

kind of Dove tells into this is some of

the stats that I was reading about

education these days um this one stat

here says that 58% of college graduates

in the most recent cohorts were women

with women on campus with one women on

campus for every two

men and with this scenario where there's

more women becoming college educated

than men at increasing numbers you're

going to get a bit of a mismatch in

terms of women looking for those men who

are up and to the right economically but

there's fewer men there yeah it's a real

problem and so you know we we talk about

for example that women are

underrepresented in some Fields like

they're underrepresented in the sciences

and people worry about that a lot but

there's a much much bigger problem than

we're facing and in fact I'm not even

convinced the other one is a problem and

we can come back to that if you'd like

because I I do think there's reasons for

that that might have to do with

preferences and not being held out but

setting that issue aside if we look at

uh the rates of going to University my

Birth Cohort I was born in 1963 is the

first year where women attended College

University at equal rates to men in the

United States and and that those lines

crossed and they never gone back and so

now the the stat you were talking about

is there's basically uh the it's 6040

basically um female to male that means

there's three women on campus for every

two men and so in principle that first

of all makes it harder to date on campus

if you're female because there's not as

many men on campus as there are women

and so the competition is fierce but

setting just dating on campus aside on

average women are looking for who are as

as educated as themselves or more and

men are looking for women who are as

educated themselves or less and so we're

creating a problem because women are

getting really well educated and then

there's not as many educated Men

available for them to partner up with

and so what you end up with is lots more

people living singal single now remember

we talked about that before couples are

less likely to get together on the one

hand this is not necessarily a bad thing

because women going to college making a

lot of money means they can afford to

live as a single person which they

literally could not do up until 1960 if

you're a female in most countries you

you couldn't have a job really and so

you the way to be an economic success is

to marry those days are gone but it does

mean that it's harder for women to find

Partners when they're on average more

likely to be educated than men and we

don't know why men are attending college

at lower rates than women but I suspect

that school itself is just doesn't suit

boys as well as it suits girls and so

it's harder for boys to hold still it's

boys are less likely to want to please

their teachers now the list is long it's

hard to raise Boys in those kinds of

ways and and uneducated unpartnered men

are the biggest problem in every society

you know if you've got men with poor

prospects who can't find good jobs and

who don't have a partner they're the

guys running around with high tea who

are committing all the crimes so as a

society you want to be very invested in

men partnering up with women because

that tames them and you want to be very

invested in men being viable partners

for women which means whatever we're

doing wrong in schools that's pushing

men out we need to un do if women are

looking for men that have more resources

than them on average which is what I

read in some of the studies that I think

it was roughly 70% of women say they

want a man that has equal or more money

than they do

um there's a mismatch there isn't there

because as both become sort of more

equalized if there's still a desire for

the for the man to have more and provide

more there's again it doesn't the

numbers don't the numbers don't match

it's a really unfortunate problem and so

the easiest way to look at that problem

is to basically look at Tinder or one of

these um dating apps and there you can

see that basically 20% of the guys on

Tinder get 80% of the swipes what that

means is that 80% of the men basically

largely get ignored on the app and 20%

are fawned upon in contrast women about

80% of them are getting swiped by people

on a regular basis they're just not

getting swiped by the guys that they're

interested in it's set up so that both

sexes want the same thing you men look

for the same thing in women and women

look for the same thing in men

um and there's just a lot more

competition among the men to get women

and so it's a smaller subset of men who

are women are interested in interesting

on an individual level I guess if you're

a man you really do need to focus on

your career if you want to have a chance

of well focusing on your career is

definitely an easy way to do it but look

not everybody's a career person and so

you have to decide where your best

prospects are and that comes back to

like why do we have autonomy well we've

evolved that because there's lots of

ways to skin a cat and so basically

autonomy means I'm going to pick my path

in life where I think I have the best

prospects usually that means career but

there's also ways of being you know just

a really kind person the person who's

always going to look out for you the

person who's going to be great helping

with the kids lots of men don't meet

those criteria and so that's a perfectly

successful way you just got to find

you're not going to get swiped right on

Tinder that's not going to be your way

of find if that's you if you're the kind

reliable but you don't have a great

career you don't have those other things

then the apps aren't the right place for

you but but people who meet you are

going to really like you and women are

going to want to be with you because

they're going to realize oh they may not

want to be with you when they're younger

but as they get a little older and

they've been through a few of the guys

who everybody else is chasing they're

going to say boy I could really use

somebody like you speaking of the apps

and swiping we talked about how men on

those apps if they're not in that sort

of top Echelon of demonstrating

authentic quality on the surface so like

Rich muscly whatever then only their

chance of getting swiped on are very

very low what about for women cuz a lot

of my female friends say that they hate

the dating apps they have no luck then

they're only getting bad swipes yeah

that's that's the difference they're

getting bad swipes meaning they don't

like the guys who swipe them the guys

who have no Locker getting no swipes

this is true because actually when I

think about the particular friend I was

thinking of I asked to see her Tinder or

whatever app it was many years ago and I

was like oh my God I jesus I wish I had

this many swipes yeah cuz as a guy I

mean what I had must have had Tinder for

about a month back in 2000 when I was 20

I'm going to say 23 24 I couldn't get

swipes yeah and if I got some listen it

wasn't anything to write home about it

was like and it was very very rare but

when I looked at her Tinder that she was

complaining about she had hundreds of

men yeah but she just didn't like any of

them exactly that's the difference and

so the thing is that throughout our

evolutionary history men have often been

left out of the out of The Mating Game

entirely and we know this if we look at

the variability on our y l chromosomes

you only inherit yl genes from your

father because women don't have a y

chromosome for for women you can look at

mitochondrial DNA which you only inherit

from your mother and if you look at the

mitochondrial DNA and the variability

there you can see that we have about

twice as many moms as dads yeah that's

weird because it takes two to tango but

what it means is that some of the dads

were getting lots of women and some lots

of lots of potential that as we're

getting no women at all and so in our

ancestral past there's lots of men who

nobody swiped right they couldn't find a

partner and there's lots of men who

women were very interested in they

probably had multiple partners and so we

still live in that exact same world so

what do they have to do lower their

standards well they you could say lower

their standards but you could also say

you know you're not liking him for all

the wrong reasons you know yeah so what

he doesn't drive a Ferrari and so what

he doesn't look super cool or whatever

but he could be a great guy the problem

is apps aren't well suited for that and

so you know when when we were all just

people who met in person you would

realize oh this guy's ass salt to the

Earth he'd be a perfect partner for me

for my life I know he's kind of ugly or

he's kind of whatever but who cares

right he's going to be a perfect life

partner very hard to see that on an

app okay so I was thinking about the the

attraction um features of a woman that

we talked about earlier I know that if

I'm a guy and I'm trying to have more

success on the apps on social media what

I need to do is I need to pull up in my

Lamborghini I need to hit the gym I need

need to Signal my quality and authentic

way that can't be disproven and if I'm a

woman therefore I need to be showing my

hip ratio well I I want to look

attractive and I want to look healthy

and I want to look young okay but

keeping in

mind I could be none of the above and

I'm still going to get swiped right how

does pornography confound all of this

stuff yeah pornography is a funny

business it it allows us to vicariously

engage in sex without actually doing it

right and so we evolved in a world where

there was no pornography we certainly

evolved in a world where there's

masturbation um but we evolved in a

world that didn't have pornography and

so it's kind of hijacking our system a

little bit it feels like you're having

sex when you know you're on only fans or

whatever those sites are that interest

you it it mimics a lot of the features

and so you know I become interested in

the social media world we live in and

this possibility that social media Mak

so many things so easy that you stop

going out you stop you know because you

can connect with your friends on social

media why go through the snow and go

across town and maybe not know anybody

at the party Etc and and I think what's

happened is that as we get lazy and we

we we start putting our life online you

know our social life we even start to

put more you know our sexual life online

and so there's even evid I the evidence

is very tentative as to what it might

mean but recently in the United States

at least if you look at young single

people their actual sexual behavior is

going down they're having less sex than

they were 20 years ago and if you if

you'd asked me 20 years ago when Tinder

whenever those things got invented I

would say oh sex is going to go way up

this is going to be you know this is

going to be the best thing for hooking

up ever in actual fact although it went

up for a little bit it went back down

and instead of what's going up is

pornography watching and so it maybe the

pornography is getting better tailored

to what people want maybe people are

just getting lazy and they instead of

going to the party and maybe meeting

somebody who they would have sex with

they just pick it up and watch it on TV

I don't know because I'm thinking about

this graph that was in your book which

shows how much sex we're having and how

much porn we're watching yeah and very

simply it shows that we're having less

sex and we're watching more porn and

it's quite a considerable drop between

2006 and 2012 it said a percentage of 18

to 25 year olds who had had sex or

watched porn within the last year yeah

and about

80% of 18 to 25y olds had had sex in the

last year and now it's getting down

nearer to 60 five 70% which is

remarkable these are young single people

you know this is when we are most likely

to have sex with you know partners of

random hookups or whatever so they're at

the peak of their sexuality and

nonetheless 20 years later they're less

likely to have sex and more likely to be

watching porn and it looks like

pornography consumption is almost like

tripled yeah in that time period it's

it's always it's been accessible over

that en time entire time period but

basically what what I think those dat I

I I refer to this I know it's a absurd

acronym I refer to this as

smiling social media induced laziness in

our social habits I know it's it'll

never catch on but I think that what

they're doing is sming they they they've

got friends we at a party it's across

town it's kind of a pain to get there

it'll cost you Subway and everything

else and you're not sure if you're going

to have fun when you get there and so

you go screw it I'm not going to go now

what you didn't know is that would have

that's the party where you would have

met that person who you would have end

up hooking up with either as short-term

or long-term partner but you didn't go

and instead what you did is you stay at

home and so there's a decent chance you

watchh porn and so we're we're letting

these fake substitutes take over in

place of our actual real socializing

which I think is hugely problematic and

does this explain in part when we're

thinking about the pornography rise why

there is declining fertility rates we're

having less and less kids than ever in

the western world and some people are

concerned about population collapse well

I I actually think it's separate from

pornography because right now we've

already separated our sexual activity

from our reproduction right can just use

be on the pill use a condom use whatever

you want which our ancestors couldn't do

and other animals can't do and so the

amount of sex that we have is completely

uncorrelated with how many kids we

decide to have and so if you set

pornography aside fertility rates are

going way down and I think that's simply

because we never evolved to want

children we evolve to want sex and so if

you want sex if you enjoy sex and then

you've also evolved to be nurturant to

whatever child comes along from that

Bingo you're a mom or a dad but if you

evolv to want kids you go back a little

ways you would have no idea how to

achieve that you wouldn't have known

what to do we evolv to want to have sex

and in a world without the pill that

automatically resulted in children and

then all you have to do is evolve to be

nurturing to them because they're so

dependent in humans when they're born

which is what happens when you had your

baby recently you have this huge sort of

magnetic pull to the child and I I

wasn't Keen to have more kids my I have

some children who grown to adulthood I

felt like I don't need any more kids but

then I have another kid and I I'm I'm

just in love with her right you can't

help yourself so we've intervened in

Nature's natural we've intervened and

that intervention is what's potentially

going to lead to there to be no more

humans so if you look at the current

population of the globe it's meant to

Peak somewhere between say 2070 and 2090

um probably around 8 billion and some

change and then it start to go down and

then it may continue to go down forever

now it may be that if what what causes

you to want to have kids is very

societal it's very well my apartment's

small and I don't want to SHP them

around it's hard work you could imagine

a world where now robots are everywhere

and where you've got all the space in

the world because there's not that many

humans or we've moved to the country and

EC commute or whatever maybe suddenly

we'll want to have six or eight of them

again because our robot's the one who

gets up in the middle of the night with

him and we don't have to but right now

if you think about having kids it's hard

yards and so lots and lots of people say

well I just don't want to do that and

the consequence is that in every single

country that's indu industrialized and

Rich the reproduction the reproductive

rate of females is less than 2.1 per

female which is what you need in order

to maintain population at the current

level and so every single country on

earth is shrinking but for

immigration and so right now you know we

have all these fights about immigration

it's going to be I promise you in 50

years that argument is going to be the

exact opposite how can we convince

people of country X to come into our

country because we're going to shrink

and disappear there's a a lot of

countries that are going to be literally

half their size by the year 00 because

they're shrinking so fast really half of

East Asia um half of Western Europe

they're just shrinking Crazy Fast

they're demolishing houses Japan is

demolishing houses there's nobody to buy

them because the women are having less

than that 2.1 yeah the average child

rate in in a lot of these countries is

around 1.5 to 1.7 very very low you

don't think it's possible that we're

going to make ourselves extinct because

we're not having [ __ ] sex are we well

we'd still be having sex we just

wouldn't be having kids right but we are

having less as well aren't we well that

varies yeah lots and lots of us having

less sex there there's reasons for that

that probably have more to do with

ecotoxicology than with psychology

there's so many hormone mimics in our

environment in Plastics and and various

pollutants that um that change our

endocrine system that that reduce sperm

counts I we think that's what's going on

and redu sperm count often is associated

with reduced sex drive Etc so if you

were prime minister or president of the

world and it was your job to get us

having children again based on what you

know about evolutionary psychology and

human incentives what would what would

you do well the the main thing is that

because humans didn't evolve to want

children you can't just play on their

don't you really want children because

the answer is often no um what you want

to do is you want to make having kids to

be as much of the plus as it possibly

can be and as little of the minus so if

you look at kids that they're really

interesting this is some wonderful work

by Danny Conan who won the Nobel Prize

and he he asks you in the moment what

are you doing and how much fun it is is

it and what he finds is no surprise if

you're having sex when you got the

request and now you probably waited till

you were done before you answered your

Bieber but you you said oh I'm having a

great time and as it goes with TV was

actually in second place watching TV is

good fun in the moment and then a little

way down the list is like doing the

dishes doing the laundry if you if

you're with your kids you're on average

about doing the dishes or doing the

laundry that's how much fun your kids

are but if you ask people what gives you

great satisfaction in life what makes

you happy nobody says I'm crazy happy

because I've watched a ton of TV that's

just not an answer anyone's everever

given or because I folded my laundry

really well what they do say though is

oh my kids give me enormous Joy so how

could it be both how could it be that on

average your kids are as much fun as the

laundry but when you look back on your

life they're they're the key thing and

what we think the answer is is that they

provide these Peak moments that laundry

simply doesn't right no matter how well

you fold your clothes it's not exciting

but your kids have these amazing moments

in their lives that that you get to be

part of as you see the world through new

eyes again and so and for a good

evolutionary reasons where you get your

whole mind and body and identity caught

up in them and so kids end up being a h

huge source of satisfaction so what that

means is if you want to get people to

start having kids again try to get rid

of The Drudge side of it you know look

at daycare is crazy hard it's crazy

expensive women want to be able to go

back to work the list is really long

about how hard it is in so many

different ways you just remove those

barriers

you especially once we're in this Robot

World which I don't think is far away

from us where I don't have to get up in

the middle of the night and do that

unless I want to I can if I want my

robot's not going to stop me from

getting up and feeding them and changing

their nappy but aren't we going to raise

loads of messed up kids in such a while

I don't I I you know robot has infinite

patience if you design it nice and soft

and fluffy it's going to be more cuddly

than we are um the kids might like the

robots more than they like us last night

I was with a with my girlfriend and I

was joking cuz I read this article that

Tesla's Optimus robots are now going

into production and they're hiring the

team which are these sort of humanoid

robots that will be in your house and

help with the chores and dishes and

stuff and as a joke I turned to my

partner I was like we'll get two of

those and um like one of them will like

like raise the kids and then the other

one would like take the kid to school

and stuff cuz I knew her it was a joke I

knew her reaction would be pretty

negative negative and she was horrified

she goes can you imagine a world where a

robot would the kid would turn to the

robot and call it Daddy and Mommy cuz

the kid wouldn't really know the

difference and I sat here with a child

psychotherapist psychologist who said

that in those first three years it's so

critical for the primary caregiver to be

around and that the man and the woman

caus the baby to release different types

of hormones based on their gender yeah

so you almost can't the robot all that's

true but here's the thing currently we

Outsource them to nannies for a big

chunk of the day if you're wealthy

enough people often hire a Night Nurse

somebody who comes in and helps out in

the at night time too if you've got the

cash and so when I hire those people I

can't be positive they're going to be

kind to my children I can't be positive

they know every possible disease my kid

could get and and all the rest I would

rather hire this incredible robot who's

super cuddly who has an encyclopedia of

medical knowledge who memorizes every

detail about my kid and knows exactly

what the the the pitch of that cry is

you could put whatever scent on them you

want you could make it Mom or Dad you

can make it even smell like you if you

want to why not have that person help

you out you know the our ancestors engag

in what in what's called aloe parenting

all the time and what that meant was the

men are out hunting probably gone for

most of the day the females need to form

these tight bonds with each other

because it's hard work with a bunch of

little kids and predators who want to

eat them you need eyes on them all the

time but you also need to be digging up

tubers of whatever variety you're trying

to eat and so they ried on each other

parenting is not a solo operation which

is Mom and Dad it's this I know it's

cliche but it takes a village kind of

thing so why not hire out this robot who

is like perfect in every way you know

they're not going to abuse your kid you

know they're never going to do anything

wrong they're always going to be kind

when your kid ask for the 10 millionth

time but why they're going to keep

giving them answers they don't mind

right why not have the perfect parent

when you're not there because um the

parent releases certain hormones in the

child by by their touch the oxytocin

robots don't release oxytocin not

yet why not have a robot that mimics all

that and would cause the kid to do that

too because you don't want to replace

parenting is one of the it's one of the

nicest things that we humans ever do

it's some of my Fondest Memories and I

don't want to give those away but I

wasn't with my kid 247 and it would have

driven me nuts if I were it's kids are

are wonderful and boring and horrible

and so why not when you Outsource and we

all do we have since time began we've

we've relied on others to help take care

of our kids why not make it the perfect

Nanny rather than the that'll have to do

Nanny because it's all I can afford I

just uh it's it's a strange feature to

think about because it feels also like a

slippery slope where we might start

having kids and then giving them

completely robot parents could do if you

wanted to I'd still rather that then you

abuse your kids and be a terrible parent

yourself which we know is happening all

the time don't you think a better answer

is just not to have the kids that is the

best answer but you can't stop people

from deciding to have kids and we know

when we look at abusive parents for

example and the kids if they're so bad

that their kids literally get taken away

what do they do they move to a new town

and they have more and so you know that

you're subjecting these children to

these horrible environments but there's

nothing you can do about it I would way

rather that those parents who think they

want kids for whatever reason then have

the robot there to look out for them and

make sure that kid's well taken care of

do you believe that do you believe

that's going to be that's going to

happen so if you've just had a baby

right yeah I've got a one and a half

year old one and a half year old would

you allow a robot to I I love the

nannies I have but every single one of

them when you start is a risk you don't

know right these are just they've been

hired by the daycare they're probably

really good but if you had the perfect

robot Nanny well then you would never

worry at

all and in marriage uh this graph that I

saw in your book shows that the

percentage of Americans who are very

happy or not too happy as a function of

marital status quite clearly shows that

if you want to be happy you should be

married and if you want to be not too

happy you should be separated so here's

the data if when people get married on

average they get no

happier so if you get married and then I

look at 10 years later on average you're

going to be exactly as you are now now

how does that average work out well in

lots of different directions because I'm

I'm putting everybody together now we've

got these amazing data sets for from

Germany for example where we track

people for so many years that we we know

what they were like before they even met

their partner much less married them and

so we see how happy they are and we see

how it changes over time and so for

example couples who get divorced they

actually their happiest year was the

year before their marriage so they met

their partner they got happier happier

and then they already started going

downhill before they even got married

okay couples who were going to stay

together their happiest year is the

marriage year itself not the year before

it so that's a good sign if you're

happier when you're walking down the

aisle than you were last year this

marriage has a much better chance of

lasting now if you look at those

marriages the ones who last they go in

three directions you've got the really

bad ones where they stay together for

economic or religious or whatever

reasons they're miserable they don't

like each other and they're way less

happy than before they met thankfully

they're relatively

if we look at the ones who are average

they're a little bit happier these are

among couples who stay together they're

a little bit happier for the first few

years of their marriage than they were

before they met and then they slowly

settle down to about where they were so

it's it's not plus or minus it's

basically where they were if you look at

the really lucky folks they get happier

every single year for almost 10 years so

their the year of their marriage was

happier than before they met and the

next year's happier still and it just

keeps working its way up and

so when you aage all that together

getting married doesn't make you happy

it's a it's a zero so how could it be

that marriage is a zero and I think the

answer to that question is that people

who don't marry it's not the fact that

they didn't marry that's the problem

it's that they're overweighting autonomy

and overweighting it is probably what

they're doing everywh else in their life

as well so when they're making decisions

about what to do with their friends

about whether they live with somebody

else or live alone all those decisions

they keep going with autonomy rather

than going with connection now that

doesn't necessarily mean they're going

to be unhappy but it makes on average it

means that they're about half as likely

to be very happy as somebody who would

go and get married so the it's the

individualism yes that's causing their

unhappiness that's causing them not to

marry yep that's what I believe and

people that are less individualistic are

getting married and that's why and and

so it's just a different kind of person

who's doing that in the same sense

interestingly if you look at divorce we

can also see that the people who are

going to get divorced were also less

happy before they even met their partner

so on average people tend to stay

together in marriages we don't know why

that is but my guess is that happier

people just tend to be happier about

everything and so they're less like they

they find ways to make their marriage

work even if it's no better than the

marriage of the less happy

Folks at my company flight Studio which

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below and what about things like ADHD

and neurod Divergence is there an

evolutionary basis for why why that

occurs yes so the um neurod Divergence

is a complicated one the

um it seems to be much more common now

when we look at the epidemiological data

it seems to be associated with high

toxin environments so if you live in in

areas where there's lots of pollutants

people are more likely to be neurod

Divergent but I think neurod Divergence

has always been with this I think it's

just become more common now why would it

become more common with these various

toxins I don't know my guess is that the

brain is a social organism the human

brain is we've evolved connection is our

most important need and it requires all

sorts of different parts to work right

which means that that if you break the

brain in any way you're going to break

your sociality because it's so

implicated in so many different areas

and if these um toxins that we're

exposed to cause any damage to the brain

I think you're particularly likely to

end up with social problems because the

brain is a social organ and so that's

why I think autism rates are R Rising

but of course I don't know I'm only

guessing based on the data I've seen now

in the case of neurod Divergence I think

they've always played a really important

role in humanity and the reason for that

is that you know humans are super

Innovative species but if you ask

yourself or your friends how often have

you ever invented anything the answer is

almost always never

and and that's because we solve our

problems socially when something goes

wrong we go to our friends we talk to

them we try to work together to figure

out our problems and we've always been

that way hunted gatherers do that and

neurod Divergent people are less likely

to do that because they're less socially

connected and so probably most of the

great inventions of humanity were

created by neurodivergent people now

those of us who are not neurodivergent

immediately go wow I'd like one of those

and so we're really good at spreading

that by virtue of our social networks

but I think we've always relied on

neurodivergent people to create the

amazing innovations that the technical

things that that make our lives so easy

now ADHD is a a different ball wax we

know it's highly heritable we know a lot

of the genes are we also suspect that it

didn't it wasn't even a noticeable thing

in a hunter gather right you know what

ancestor ever tried to get you to pay

attention to something that you were

bored with but if you're ADHD it's crazy

hard to pay attention when you're bored

but it's perfectly easy to pay attention

when you're interested you just don't

have the kind of dorsal lateral

prefrontal cortex that ows you to force

yourself to attend to things and for our

ancestors you're loaded with energy

you're probably a great Hunter and so

it's it's a modern problem that you have

to sit still and listen problem which

our ancestors were never asked to do I

wonder if it will still be the case when

we have all the robots in the AI doing

everything for I'm betting not I'm

betting that you could decide to learn

or not learn now why would you even

learn your multiplication tables if you

don't need to you can just ask your

phone what the answer is and so why tons

of the schooling that we go through is

Superfluous in this world where a AI can

do everything that we can do do you

think we're going emerge with um

technology more deeply it's very

possible you could easily imagine like

if there's a feature about yourself that

you don't like I suspect it'll be hard

to genetically engineer it and the

reason I think it would be hard to

genetically engineer it is that most of

our genes have more than one effect and

most of our traits are caused by more

than one gene so you can't just tweak

one Gene and become the person you

wanted to be it's going to have other

effects that you may not want so the the

upshot is that

why not you know have a little mind

module that you either attaches to your

head or goes inside it even or you know

we already are treating people with this

there's some kinds of depression that

just are untreatable and for some of

those people they literally insert an

electrode into their brain and stimulate

this particular region and and the

people who experience it say it's like

my world was in black and white and

suddenly it became in color well why not

have that for knowledge that you can

access you know I could spend my huge

amounts of time studying Greek or I

could shove one of the goes in and now I

can go to Greece and speak with the

locals right without my phone telling me

what they're saying you mentioned

depression that what's the evolutionary

basis for humans getting depressed and

anxious because presumably that's that's

not productive for our survival not so

remember that that with every generation

with sexual reproduction you're going to

have people who have things that maybe

Evolution wouldn't like remember earlier

we talked about homosexuality that if

you have more gay genes women like you

more but then if you have too many you

don't like them in return right so

that's a case where a little little bit

is a good thing evolutionarily and a lot

is a bad thing evolutionarily because

you're not going to have Offspring not a

moral judgment just a judgment based on

what evolution cares about well with

anxiety that makes perfect sense right

so animals that can't Envision the

future have no anxiety all they feel is

fear in the moment oops there's a lion

I'd better run as fast as I possibly can

and then as soon as they've run away oh

no lion life is co everything's

copesthetic I'll go back to eating grass

and being happy whereas if I'm a human

running away from a line be oh my God

that was really scary I wonder when

there's another line coming now the

biggest gift that Evolution gave us is

the capacity to simulate the future

Evolution doesn't give any gifts without

costs you pay a price for every one of

them and the capacity to simulate the

future also comes with the realization

it is first of all it's not always going

to be good and second of all it's always

going to end badly once you understand

life you understand I'm going to die

someday and the other animals don't have

that realization they can't project

themselves forward in time the way we

can so does that mean that Evolution

tells us that the cure for anxiety is to

stop thinking about the future

effectively if you didn't think about

the future you would not be anxious if

you could get yourself to be mindful in

the moment and set aside the future your

anxiety will disappear because it's all

future based I was something that really

um I found quite interesting as well in

your book I think it was in chapter nine

where you talk about

religion and the fact that people that

are associated with religious

participation are typically more happy

than those who are not the effect is

remarkable and so you can look at it in

two different ways is one of just the

effect of believing right so lots of

people worry about a life without

meaning you know people of religion have

solve that problem because religion

gives your life meaning there is a point

if you believe any of the religions that

exist you're part of this NeverEnding

chain Etc and it doesn't they can be

wildely different religions but they all

hold this notion that there's there's

something before and something after now

you can look at the effect of that by

saying all right let's select only

people who never go to church so we

won't we'll take the sociality part out

of it and then we'll look at people who

pray versus people who don't pray and we

can do this with these National samples

um where we say let's look at the

General Social Survey and in fact

anybody wants to can get online and look

at the General Social Survey and answer

any question that's available in that

it's a remarkably remarkable publicly

available data set which I used

repeatedly in this book and praying

actually makes you happier if you among

people who don't go to church they're

not praying and in my mind that's that's

life has meaning versus it doesn't

people who have religion have meaning

people don't often don't sometimes they