most people will experience tremendous

reductions in anxiety within 3 Days To 3

weeks of starting a ketogenic diet in

fact we did a study where patients with

bipolar disorder major depression or

schizophrenia tried the ketogenic diet

and 43% achieved clinical remission from

their chronic mental illness and 64% of

them left un less psychiatric medication

because it improves the balance of

chemicals in the brain but the question

is what's causing those chemical

imbalances in the first place and so

let's start there Dr Georgia e is a

Harvard train psychiatrist who

specializes in nutritional science and

mental health she was one of the first

psychiatrists to offer nutrition-based

approaches as an alternative to

psychiatric medications to optimize

brain function and enhance performance

people need to know how powerful

nutrition strategies can be for the

brain because if you're feeding at the

wrong way things will go wrong and

that's exactly what happened to me my

health was declining in my early 40s in

ways that is true for a lot of my

patients chronic fatigue and IBS being

really anxious and depressed and so I

did all kinds of tests they said there's

nothing wrong of course there was

something wrong so I instinctively

started experimenting with my diet and

the diet that I ended up on was

backwards from what we're told is

healthy for us it should theoretically

kill me but it result every single one

of my symptoms and so I studied for

years learning things about food that

most people don't know and which foods

contain the nutrients the brain needs or

the ingredients that damage the brain

and found three principles of nutrition

they can help you in ways no medicine

can as well as improved mood memory

concentration stamina productivity so

let's unpack that

this has always blown my mind a little

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much

Dr Georg

Eid how do you define what what it is

you

do I am a psychiatrist specializing in

nutritional and metabolic Psychiatry so

how food affects the brain and how food

affects brain metabolism and how brain

metabolism affects our mental health

this is a fairly new phrase metabolic

Psychiatry am I right in thinking that

yes it's a really it's a very new field

and really exciting field uh the the

term itself was coined by Dr Shabani

Sethi who's a metabolic psychiatrist at

Stanford University and maybe five years

ago or so maybe a little longer than

that so it's a very very new field it's

even newer than the other exciting New

Field in Psychiatry which is nutritional

Psychiatry and so and this is a really

exciting time to be a

psychiatrist uh and it's also a really

exciting time or a hopeful time an

empowering time for people with mental

health conditions because we're finally

able to explore um root causes the real

root causes the deeper root causes of

mental health conditions that go beyond

things like what we're told all the time

which are these mysterious chemical

imbalances you know that need to be

addressed with medication We Now

understand that the real drivers the

primary drivers of mental health

conditions are inflammation of the brain

something called oxidative stress which

is why we're always told to eat more

anti oxidants and insulin resistance or

pre-diabetes which is now affects more

than 90% of Americans in your work you

talk a lot about the ketogenic diet why

is that so prevalent in your work was

the ketogenic diet energizes the brain

differently so it it really

fundamentally changes the brain's

operating system so when you switch from

a high

carbohydrate High insulin diet to a low

insulin which is us a low carbohydrate

diet ketogenic

diet the way that

cells uh receive

energy the the mixture of fuels that

they're using changes and that has

profound influences on just about every

pathway just about every chemical

pathway inside of that cell so it is as

though you are fundamentally changing

the brain's operating system uh in very

healthy ways that allow not brain cells

not only to work better but for uh but

for brain cells to heal so the longer

you stay on a ketogenic diet the more

healing the more brain healing can take

place and what is your sort of academic

and career experience what's that can

you run me through that sort of timeline

yeah so I uh got a degree an

undergraduate degree at Carlton College

in Minnesota in biology so I always have

loved science and biology understanding

how things work and uh then for years I

worked as a laboratory research

assistant different types of research

labs around the world Boston Munich

including in diabetes research until

I figured out what I wanted to do and I

decided that I wanted to go to medical

school so then four years of medical

school at the University of Vermont in

Burlington Vermont which is a great

place to go to medical school and then

four years of Psychiatry residency

training um at a Harvard program called

Cambridge hospital in Cambridge

Massachusetts

and then so that was 25 years ago that I

finished my Psychiatry residency

training and I've been practicing uh

Psychiatry ense and what does practicing

Psychiatry

involve what it usually involves for

most psychiatrists is psychotherapy and

medications and for some psychiatrists

only medications some psychiatrists

prefer to focus exclusively on

psychopharmacology or medication

management there are some psychiatrists

who choose to focus only on

psychotherapy and and and don't

prescribe medications but the vast

majority of psychiatrists offer a

combination of both medications and

Psychotherapy and when did nutrition

become part of your career well I I

never thought about the relationship

between food and the Brain once um

during medical school we had maybe two

or three hours worth of nutrition

lectures in four years and in four years

of Psychiatry residency we didn't talk

about food in the brain once so I

honestly had no idea how important it

was to to brain health uh so I practiced

conventionally as I was saying you know

medications and Psychotherapy for the

first 10 years of my practice and as

much as I loved my work I it was

becoming painfully obvious that most

people in my practice were just not

getting that much better like no matter

how hard I tried um and and it wasn't

just true for me you know it wasn't as

though I was thinking well you know I

don't have an maybe I don't have enough

experience or maybe I not reading enough

or maybe I need more supervision um when

am I going to be able to really be able

to help people because when I looked

around even very senior psychiatrists

who had been in practice for decades the

same was true for them I mean we had

we've been taught to think of mental

illnesses as chronic mysterious and

incurable and that the best way you can

help people is to support them with

medications and

Psychotherapy and uh but but that these

are lifelong illnesses that we really

don't understand very well and that we

can do very little about because you

there's like a significant social

component to mental illnesses as well

right absolutely I mean the brain the

brain is a very responsive organ and

it's listening to uh it's not just

paying attention to the food you eat

it's paying attention to every aspect of

your life how much light the brain

receives how much love you have in your

life how how much you love your work

what kinds of people are around you um

how you use your body exercise stress um

everything everything matters to the

brain but most people are led to believe

that food doesn't matter that much to

the brain and that's partly because

we've only recently started to think

about it but the other piece um is that

the information that we're given about

how to feed the brain and the body

properly is incorrect and so when people

are trying their best to improve their

mental health using nutritional

strategies those strategies fail most

people because those strategies are

grounded in the wrong information and so

a lot of people just think oh well you

know I I tried eating more Whole Foods

or right I tried uh you know I tried

putting blueberries on my oatmeal or

making my flax seed smoothie every

morning or uh eating more plants than

animals I tried all of those things and

they just didn't help very much so I'm

just going to go back to eating

everything in

moderation um because it doesn't seem to

matter but what's really great about you

inviting me here to talk with you today

is that people need to know how powerful

and intervention uh these nutrition

strategies can be they can help you in

ways no medicine can in days to weeks in

many cases people can experience

meaningful Improvement to their mood

their memory their concentration their

stamina their productivity um and and

their their mental stability their their

effectiveness in their lives if they

have the right information about how to

change their diet so you have to know

which changes are the ones that are

worth making and they're not the ones

we're used to hearing about is there a

particular case study that comes to mind

when you think about this is there a

most prominent case study or a first

case study that was a Eureka moment

VI I wouldn't say there was a Eureka

moment case in my life because I came to

it a in a different way uh my Eureka

moment really came through my own

personal experience I think a lot of

Physicians who uh practice nutritional

and metabolic

strategies most of us stumble into this

work accidentally because we're not

taught it and most of us stumble into it

either because a patient comes to us and

says hey you know I've tried this new

way of eating and that's why I'm so much

healthier than when you saw me a year

ago or the The Physician themselves

encounters their own health challenges

you know uses the conventional nutrition

approaches they don't help and they find

that they're kind of left to their own

devices to solve their own health

problems and that's exactly what

happened to me so when I was

experiencing all kinds

of uh health issues in my early 40s

despite doing everything correctly you

know eating uh low fat low cholesterol

calorie restricted diet um uh that was

high in fiber uh mostly Whole Foods and

exercising religiously despite doing all

of those things my health was declining

in my early 40s in ways that was true

for a lot of my patients as well and I

had no idea how to help my patients with

these issues these were things like

chronic fatigue and IBS and fibromyalgia

and migrain headaches very common in

middle-aged people and older and even

younger people nowadays so

when I encountered those issues and I

was working at Harvard at the time I had

access to all kinds of Specialists

caring intelligent thorough they did all

kinds of tests all kinds of tests and

they said everything is normal there's

nothing wrong of course there was

something wrong

but I I so I instinctively

started experimenting with my

diet uh and long story short short 6

months later trial and error changes

food and symptom Journal at the end of 6

months and this was back in

[Music]

2007 um the diet that I ended up on

Purely by trial and error was almost

upside down and backwards from what

we're told as healthy for us and that

was the diet that resolved every single

one of my physical health

symptoms but as a psychiatrist what

really got my attention was that it

improved my mental health significantly

and I wasn't even trying I wasn't even

aware that my mental health needed that

much attention I think like most people

I was walking around with suboptimal

mental health you know more anxiety than

was necessary than was I you know I

slumping in the middle of the day brain

energy you know faltering a couple of

hours after lunch coming home at the end

of the day and and being completely

spent and not being able to get anything

else done after 5:00 being really

anxious on Sunday night before Monday

morning work um you know being depressed

in the winter time I mean all of these

things we think of as really normal

we've come to expect so little of our

mental health we've come to expect poor

mental health as normal and it

isn't uh if you feed the brain properly

it works better and you can expect so

much more of yourself so when that

happened to me I thought well that's

interesting this diet seems to be good

for the brain which diet was that this

was a mostly

meat low carbohydrate low fiber low

cholesterol high fat diet no whole

grains no

legumes very few plant Foods mostly

Seafood meat poultry non-starchy

vegetables and fats from Whole Foods it

really was as simple as that and a Diet

similar to that is um uh one of the

starting places in the book so I have a

variety of different dietary strategies

people can explore in the book not just

one so it's different places for people

to grab on depending on what they feel

comfortable doing but that but that way

of eating resolved all of my physical

issues and mental health issues I wasn't

even aware needed attention

and that that

really was what inspired me to begin

studying nutrition I certainly did not

out and start recommending this dietary

pattern to my patients that would have

been Reckless I didn't know the first

thing about nutrition and based on the

little that I did know the diet that I

had ended up on should theoretically

kill me so it could be dangerous for

people and so I studied for years

independently took a graduate course at

the Harvard School of Public Health and

studied independently read everything I

get my hands on studied the the primary

literature the actual scientific studies

to try to understand okay why why is red

meat bad for us what's the difference

between red meat and white meat why are

whole grains good for us why are whole

grains good for us but refined grains

are bad for us why do we need a rainbow

of fruits and

vegetables uh are some of them more

important than others are they all

equally beneficial I mean all I just

became so curious about food I really

wanted to get to the bottom of it so for

years I studied nutrition and fell in

love with nutrition science and um it's

a lot of what I share in the book is all

these fascinating things about food that

most people don't know um and that can

really such as that it's interesting

it's useful it's empowering because if

you understand which foods contain the

nutrients the brain needs which foods

contain the ingredients that damage the

brain which foods are going to damage

brain metabolism and cause inflammation

and cause oxidative stress cause all

these things that we're told we need to

fight

with supplements and

superfoods um that's the real power the

real power in dietary change is not

adding special things to the diet it's

actually subtracting the things that are

harming the brain and working against

your best efforts it's it's it's just

like anything you know you don't make

money by spending money you make money

by by not spending money right so it

it's the power of subtraction what are

you not doing um and that's really Step

One is first Do no harm understand where

the harm is coming from in the diet

because it's not where you think it's

coming from it's not coming from the red

meat it's not coming from the

cholesterol it's not coming from the

saturated fat so if you understand where

the damage is coming from then you can

turn things around very

quickly you used a word there you used

the word explore um as it relates to

different diets that you've written

about in your book and that you know

that are available online

I from what I understood there you're

not saying that one diet is the right

diet for everybody you're saying that

it's almost the word explore suggests

sort of experimentation personal

experimentation and what worked for you

in that case might not necessarily work

for someone else in a different

situation is that accurate that's

exactly right and you're bringing up a

really important Point Stephen which is

that there are two levels of

dietary knowledge so one is that there

are fundamental nutrition principles

that apply to all human beings these are

the rules the cells require these

nutrients um and you must consume foods

that provide those nutrients to those

cells and you must exclude these certain

ingredients that can damage those cells

and you must keep your glucose and

insulin levels in in the right range for

your personal metabolism you have to you

have to nourish protect and energize

yourselves you must do that but then

beyond that so so those rules and and

the rules that you have to follow to to

get there are not are not not commonly

known but then beyond that there's the

personalization right because we are all

different we're not different in what

our cells need but we're different in

what we can tolerate we're different in

our metabolic Health we we're different

in how old we are how active we are what

um what conditions we we already have

what conditions we're most at risk for

what our goals are what our preferences

are what and and whether we have food

sensitivities for example um and so all

of those pieces

you know food intolerances and and

different different goals and different

aspects of our of Our Lives that's where

the personalization comes in and I teach

people in the book how to take these

fundamental principles so I teach them

what the fundamental principles are

which are very simple nutrition is not

rocket science um and and then show them

how to personalize it to their

metabolism to their preferences to their

goals what are the fundamental

principles let's start there so the

fundamental principles are nourish

protect

energize so nourish what does a brain

healthy diet look like and by brain

healthy uh we are talking about what's

healthy for all cells because it

wouldn't make any sense to uh for the

human body to require different diet for

every organ you possess so a brain

healthy diet is a diet that's healthy

for every organ in the body so it's good

for the brain it's good for the heart

it's good for the liver Etc so what is a

brain healthy diet it needs to nourish

protect and energize

nourish it must contain and be able to

safely deliver all essential nutrients

to your cells so you have to know where

those nutrients are you cannot and using

Whole Food principles and not including

supplements or specially fortified

processed foods you cannot meet that

goal without including some animal Foods

in your diet that's just the truth of

our

biology

protect protect the brain from damaging

ingredients so what damages the brain

inflammation which you can't see or feel

it's not as so the brain is red or

swollen or sore you we the brain doesn't

have nerve endings but many many people

have brain inflammation without being

aware of it that's a main driver of

depression and all kinds of other brain

conditions so you need to exclude

protection is not about addition it's

about subtraction you need to subtract

the foods from your diet that cause

inflammation

that caus something called oxidative

stress which is why we're always told to

eat more

antioxidants what we really need to be

told is what's causing all that

oxidative stress in the first place and

remove those things because the

antioxidant strategy really doesn't

work and energize nourish protect

energize the third principle is energize

which means the brain which is a very

high energy electrical organ it needs a

constant supply of high quality Quality

Clean burning energy and if you're

eating the wrong way your brain will not

will gradually lose its ability over

time to generate energy that's primarily

about getting your glucose and insulin

levels into a healthy range not just

your glucose although getting your

glucose levels in a healthy range is

extremely

important you have to go one step

further because underneath that glucose

you need to know what's happening with

insulin and that's that's a really EMP

powering strategy sort of Next Level

right so getting your glucose and

insulin levels down will allow your

brain to uh uh to energize itself in the

most clean efficient um and reliable way

possible nourish protect and

energize and then beyond there you said

there's a level above there so that's

the sort of fundamental level Beyond

there you go into sort of

personalization what's best for you and

is that where the sort of trial and

error comes into play exactly so these

principles nourish protect energize the

nourish you need to include some animal

Foods the protect you need to exclude

things like refined carbohydrates and

vegetable oils uh which are the

signature ingredients of the standard

American diet or standard Western diet

um and the the energize is is the the

glucose and insulin levels which for

some people this is some a level of

personalization begins here at the

energized piece because if you have

excellent metabolic health and we can

talk about what that means then you may

not need to eat a ketogenic diet to to

properly n to to really get those

glucose and insulin levels under control

and thoroughly energize your brain cells

but if you have significant metabolic

damage if you're sedentary if you're

older if you have pre-diabetes or type 2

diabetes um then you may need to reduce

the amount of carbohydrate in your diet

even from Whole Foods you may even need

to go to a ketogenic level and and

that's where that's where assessing your

metabolic Health understanding where you

stand on the insulin resistant Spectrum

the spectrum of metabolic Health that's

the empowering piece because if you know

where you stand on the insulin

resistance spectrum and you can get your

glucose and insulin levels into a

healthy

range you then you have tremendous power

over your emotional intellectual and

your and your physical health future

it's really the number one risk factor

for almost all chronic diseases mental

and physical so personalization starts

with a metabolic personalization so how

much carbohydrate can you safely

tolerate that's one example but then

there's another level of personalization

that has to do with how well does your

immune system work how how good is how

how robust is your gut function your gut

barrier many of us have lost our ability

to safely and comfortably tolerate a

wide variety of foods that we should be

able to tolerate and that's because our

environment

multiple multiple toxins in the

environment are have broken down a lot

of our defenses our gut barrier bloodb

brain barrier uh and and our immune

system has become overwhelmed by trying

to process lots of toxic ingredients in

our environment so these are things like

Plastics and pesticides and antibiotics

and um and and food additives and and

all kinds of you know ultr processed

foods that we were never designed to

handle these are really

stressful on the human body and they do

break down our defenses over time so

this level of personalization is very

much about trial and error but to save

people some of that frustration of trial

and error approaches I I give them very

specific lists of foods

um that that are more likely to be

culprits than others and so that helps

cut back on some of the trial and error

elimination this keto diet you um you

did a study on the ketogenic diet got

the study here the ketogenic diet for

refractory mental illness a resp a

retrospective analysis of 31 in

patients what is the ketogenic diet for

someone that might not know so a lot of

people think or they've heard about a

ketogenic diet as a weight loss diet um

they think of it may maybe it's a fad

weight loss diet um they think of it as

a very very low carbohydrate diet they

might think of it as a diet that's very

high in meat and dairy products um and

but actually the ketogenic diet was

originally created in

1921 more than a hundred years ago to

stabilize brain chemistry in children

with severe seizures um and this was

long before the availability of useful

seizure medications so these were

children who um uh were having multiple

seizures per day in many cases and so

the ketogenic diet was designed back

then created back then a very strict

version of the ketogenic diet um to get

as close as possible to to fasting

without Starving Children to death

because for

Millennia people had noticed that those

with epilepsy would often improve if

they were fasting but you can't fast

forever so how do you get close to

fasting this is the original fasting

mimicking diet how do you get as close

to fasting as you can while still

providing some nutrition so that was the

original goal of the ketogenic diet and

was very successful for seizures more

than 50% of children had more than 50%

and and adults as well it's it's since

been shown more than 50% response rate

in children and and adults and 10 to 20%

completely uh free of seizures following

a ketogenic diet how is it acting on the

brain what's it doing to the brain the

ketogenic diet does many many things

it's like a multi-purpose tool for brain

health so one thing it does because we

talked about how uh some of the root

causes of mental illnesses which are

only relatively recently a focus of

research are inflammation and oxidative

stress and insulin resistance the

ketogenic diet reduces inflammation it

reduces oxidative stress and it reduces

insulin resistance uh it also improves

the balance of chemicals in the brain so

a lot of people think of um uh mental

illnesses as problems with chemical

imbalances in the brain and these are

the chemicals that they're talking about

you might have heard of Serotonin or

dopamine or norepinephrine there are

others glutamate Gaba many different

chemicals in the brain are uh associated

with or in some cases even very much uh

causing mental health symptoms but the

question is what's causing those

chemical imbalances in the first place

and uh one of the things that's causing

those chemical imbalances is that

inflammation and oxitive stress but

another thing is that the brain is uh if

you're feeding it the wrong way it will

not be able to in many cases prod

produce energy reliably and if it can't

produce energy reliably all kinds of

things will go wrong and in quite

spectacular

fashion what actually goes wrong is

going to depend on who you are and

that's where our individual differences

come in so if I eat the if you and I

exactly the same bad diet depending what

runs in your family and how you've lived

your life to this point you might

develop Alzheimer's disease you might

develop bipolar disorder you might

develop type 2 diabetes you might

develop fatty Li disease um I might

develop completely different conditions

I might I might develop um

cardiovascular disease I might develop

depression um I might develop um ADHD it

and that's where the individual

differences are but all of these

conditions are just uh metabolic

malfunction really at at the heart of it

that's what's going on if cells aren't

functioning properly you will develop a

disease physical and mental diseases and

which ones you get it's really kind of

luck of the draw um but you have

tremendous control over what you are at

risk for if you understand how to help

yourselves operate at their personal

best can you tell me about what you

learned in this study and what this

study concluded yes so this was the work

of my friend and colleague Dr Alber Dena

he's a psychiatrist who's been

practicing in tulo France for more than

35

years so after witnessing a young family

member someone in his extended family

with autism and seizures improve within

weeks of adopting a ketogenic diet he

thought well I wonder if this diet could

help my patients especially my patients

who are not responding to anything else

that I have tried to help them

Psychotherapy medications

hospitalization

and so he invited 31 of his most

treatment resistant patients with

bipolar disorder major depression or

schizophrenia to come into the hospital

and voluntarily try a very mildly

ketogenic Whole Foods diet in the

hospital under his supervision to see

whether or not they would respond and

this was these were folks who these are

all adults these were people who had

been ill for an average of 10 years some

for as long as 30 years these were

people who were taking when they came

into the hospital at the beginning of

the study an average of five psychiatric

medications not at all unusual for

people with chronic mental illness and

all of them had one or more markers of

poor metabolic health obesity high blood

pressure high blood sugar things like

that so these were people with poor

metabolic health and poor Mental Health

heal and they eagerly came into the

hospital to try this intervention

because nothing else had helped them and

what was remarkable about what he

observed was that of the 31 people 28

were able to stay on the ketogenic diet

for more than two weeks which is what

you need to do to start to see

benefit every single one of them

improved to the point that 43% of them

achieved clinical remission from their

primary

psychiatric treatment resistant chronic

mental illness and 64% of them left the

hospital unless psychiatric

medication and all of them improved

metabolically as well and that you do

not see results like this in

conventional psychiatric care so there's

a few things that spring to mind when

you talk about the study the first is

that they were inside a hospital yes so

I guess that's a confounding Factor

potentially oh yeah well a blessing and

a curse yeah so a blessing is that um

the diet was fair was was very carefully

supervised six days out of seven they

were allowed to go home on Sundays okay

and which still I'm I'm just mentioning

but that but they had tremendous amount

of support and supervision and and

that's that's really really helpful when

you're switching from a standard High

carbohydrate diet to a low carbohydrate

diet they also had very careful medical

and psychiatric supervision which is

also really important uh because when

you when you change to a ketogenic diet

brain chemistry fundamentally changes in

ways that can at first when you're

transitioning from one operating mode to

another operating mode it's it's

stressful and sometimes you can feel

worse before you feel better MH and

medications can be affected so

medications need to be monitored and

everything everything changes these are

all really healthy CH your blood sugar

can drop your blood pressure can drop

especially if you're taking blood sugar

lowering medications or blood pressure

lowering medications if you switch to a

ketogenic diet it's so effective at

lowering blood sugar many Physicians who

prescribe blood sugar lowering

medications for diabetes need to cut the

diabetes medication in half on day one

in order to prevent dangerously low

blood sugar because you've got a

medication that's lowering blood sugar

now you've added a diet that lowers

blood sugar and this could be

potentially dangerous

the diet on its own is not dangerous

it's the diet in combination with

medications so you need to know what

you're doing and so yes in the case of

these um 31 adults so a certain

proportion of them was it 28 that

managed to see 28 31 283 had I just

restricted their calories for example

but kept them on whatever diet they were

on would I have seen an improvement as

well that study has not been done to the

best of my knowledge however you're

bringing up a really interesting point

so what a ketogenic diet is it's really

not about carbohydrate the definition of

a ketogenic diet is any diet that lowers

insulin levels uh to the fat burning

point so that if your insulin you can't

burn fat if your insulin levels are too

high and most people are walking around

with insulin levels that are high 24

hours a day they don't even come down

overnight because people are just eating

too much too frequently in the wrong

foods to get into ketosis or generate

ketones you need to lower your insulin

levels to the fat burning point and when

you and if and if you're burning fat

vigorously the liver will turn some of

that fat chop that fat into ketones

which are very small fragments of ready

to burn fat and these cross easily into

the into the brain and can be burned for

energy and they can Bridge any energy

gaps that may be there which many of us

have if these people had done the

Mediterranean diet would they have seen

the same consequences the medit oh sorry

say I imagine they were probably on the

western diet that like the American diet

which is ultra processed high sugar so

bringing them into a controlled

environment and just depriving them of

that would have surely caused just that

on its own would have been beneficial

yes so I wrote in the paper I I I and I

I mentioned this you're making a really

excellent point and I addressed this in

the paper is that because when you when

you change from a standard junky modern

diet to through a ketogenic diet that's

Whole Foods you're changing a lot of

variables right so how do we know that

it had anything to do with the ketones

right and and this is a good question

and a fair question and we don't know

the answer but new studies are helping

us to understand that but before we get

to that I just wanted to say the point

you're making is so important because

there are lots of ways to lower your

insulin levels so you can lower your

insulin levels through fasting

intermittent fasting you can lower your

insulin levels through exercise you can

lower your insulin levels through

calorie restriction if you restrict your

calories below 750 gram per day many

people will go into ketosis that's

another version of a fasting mimicking

diet made Popular by Dr wter Longo so

there are many ways to lower your

insulin levels um the ketogenic diet is

just one way to do that but the

ketogenic diet is the only way to safely

sustainably maintain a state of ketosis

longterm ter so you can initiate you can

get into ketosis using these other

strategies but it's it you can't fast

forever you can't exercise all day long

you can't restrict calories below 750

for the rest of your life but you can

safely and comfortably eat a a well

formulated ketogenic diet which is very

low in carbohydrate moderate in protein

not excessive in protein and relatively

higher in fat depending on your energy

needs indefinitely sustainably use the

word sustainably that that's kind of

always been my challenge with the keto

diet is being able to stay on it I mean

you saw in this particular study that

even trying to get people to do it for

two weeks resulted in some portion of

them dropping out yes um why is it so

hard to stay on the ketogenic diet I've

managed to do it for I I was saying to

you before we started recording once a

year around this time of year I do it

for about eight weeks and it has a

really profound impact on a lot of my

life it helps me feel more focused um my

body composition radically changes

faster than any other diet or thing that

I've ever tried faster than just

exercise Alone um I I sleep a little bit

better as well I

noticed but you've been doing it for a

long time you've been doing it for

roughly almost 10 years for the better

part of TW I mean more often I'll say

I've been following a ketogenic diet for

12 years and I agree with you it's not

always easy I'm not perfect about it

myself but I have been on the kog giant

diet The Lion Share of the last 12 years

it being hard is an important factor yes

because when you're trying to prescribe

it to somebody who is got you know

treatment resistant depression or is

really suffering in some way I imagine

they'll find it even harder than I do

yes and no okay so uh it's well it's

definitely there's no question about it

that's hard to eat a low carbohydrate

diet in a high carbohydrate world yeah

so there's that there's the

environmental Temptations and the social

Temptations and the habits and the

addiction sugar addiction is a very real

biochemical phenomenon so there's that

but

but it I mean I've been I I had a weight

issue growing up everyone in my family

did um and I've been on lots of

different diets in my life this is the

easiest one to stay on I can't say about

any other diet that I've follow for 12

years and the reason why is this diet

really stabilizes appetite hormones

so your cells are getting energized in

between meals you're not getting those

spikes and crashes in glucose which

cause spikes and crashes in appetite

hormones satiety hormones stress

hormones reproductive hormones uh brain

chemistry um you're not getting you're

not on that roller coaster anymore so

your cells are are are being satisfied

they're getting the energy needs

satisfied in between meals and

everything is quiet and calm on the

inside it doesn't mean you're 100%

protected against Temptation uh so I

describe it to my patients with food

addiction I describe being in ketosis as

a suit of armor you know the sword can

still get you but you but you know

you're not 100% protected but you've got

a real fighting chance and for for

anybody who's never tried a ketogenic

diet and been on it for at least I would

say six to 12

weeks it most people have no idea how

much easier it is um to follow

to follow a healthy eating plan when

their appetite is in good control a lot

of people know they've shifted into

ketosis without even checking their

Ketone meter because they can go for so

long without eating without even

thinking about food they can work

through lunch and not even realize that

they've missed a

meal most people the way we eat most of

us now are thinking about food all the

time you haven't even finished breakfast

and you're already thinking what what

can I have for lunch you're carrying

food around with you everywhere you go

you're eating at least six times a day

in many cases this is not the I mean we

would never have survived as a species

if we needed to eat six times a day so

we're not eating in a way that is that

is nourishing us and and satisfying us

we're eating in a way that's making us

hungry I find what you've said there to

be sort of true in my experience

especially in the context of the roller

coaster analogy so when I'm not on key

ketosis I do feel like sometimes I'm in

a bit of a roller coaster of like

Temptation craving Etc and then when I

do ketosis and I get past the first week

or two the the roller coaster seems to

stop right I'm I'm off the roller

coaster it's then maybe six eight weeks

later you're busy life happens you're

traveling you're tired that Temptation

Creeps in and it just takes that one

moment of weakness in my head to then

fling me off ketosis and all my effort

is gone and in my head the way I've

always thought about it and I'm sure

this is wrong but I've thought about it

like it takes a couple of days to get

into a state of ketosis and then once

you're in and I usually get a headache

yeah on my way into ketosis I feel a

little little bit bad on the way in and

then once I'm in there it's fine so when

I have something that breaks my keto

this is what I refer to me and my

girlfriend talk about I've broken my

keto whatever I think oh my god I've got

to go through another headache and

another five days of you know uh getting

back into it

what is that correct it's a very common

experience because there are these

adjustments uh that happen inside uh

with your physiology uh as you're

shifting from one operating system to

another when you're shifting from

carbohydrate burning system to a more

you're shifting your ratio of your fuels

so the body and the brain are hybrid

engines so we're never burning 100% fat

um we're burning a mixture of of fat and

carbohydrate when you're shifting from a

from a system system that's fueled

almost entirely by carbohydrate almost

all the time to a system where you're

burning more fat than carbohydrate um

that's uncomfortable for some people

shifting back and forth

especially if what they have if if the

reason why you've quote broken your keto

is because you've had something um that

has a lot of refined carbohydrate in a

lot of sugar or flour in it for example

um so it depends on what you've eaten

and how much and for how long um but but

many people do experience the so-called

keto flu when they are shifting from a

carbohydrate based system to a fat-based

metabolism and some of this can be uh

much of this can be prevented in a

couple of different ways one is with

electrolyte supplementation

supplementing electrolytes to keep your

your salt balance even as you're

transitioning and another uh is by

transitioning slowly onto the ketogenic

diet rather than all at once and so and

there are many there are other tips in

the book about how to do this more

comfortably but those are the two big

ones uh and going slowly so in the book

I don't recommend that people start on a

ketogenic diet just straight away like

learn about it on a Monday started on a

Tuesday but ease into ketosis over a

week or two and uh there's a there's a

kind of a moderate carbohydrate plan in

the book that allows people to do this

so you you follow that plan for a couple

of weeks to gradually lower those

glucose and insulin levels it's going to

be a lot more comfortable it's be a lot

less of a shock to the brain and body um

and and if you're supplementing

electrolytes and going slowly most of

these quote keto flu symptoms will uh

will not occur or they'll be very brief

and Mild so um again these are posit

it's a positive change to have these

electrolyte changes and um it's it's all

of these things are are good but there

is this transition period which can

sometimes be uncomfortable and this is

um not to say that it's dangerous again

it's a very we're designed our biology

is designed for us to be able to shift

back and forth between fat and

carbohydrate as fuel sources but many of

us have lost some of our metabolic

flexibility because we've done some

damage to our metabolic engines by

eating the wrong way for too long so we

don't shift as comfortably back and

forth as we used to be able to I guess

most people don't even know what foods

are included in a keto diet because most

diets are restrictive to the point that

you know people think they just make

your life miserable but what are the

sort of big misconceptions you've seen

with the foods you're able to eat on a

ketogenic diet yeah so because a

ketogenic diet it because the definition

of a ketogenic diet is any way of eating

okay that lowers insulin levels enough

to turn on fat burning and generate

ketones in the

blood because because it's about insulin

it the it's not a food list so you can

you can it's not about plants and

animals it's not even about fat or

carbohydrate it's about understanding

how to lower your insulin levels which

you can do with a vegan dietary pattern

with a vegetarian dietary pattern uh

with an omnivore dietary pattern um uh

with or even with a carnivore dietary

pattern so whatever your dietary

preferences are you can get the benefits

the brain healing benefits of of ketosis

so it's not about the foods you're

eating um it's it's more about

understanding what raises and lowers

insulin the things that raise and lower

insulin are refined carbohydrates Whole

Foods carbohydrates refined proteins

like protein powders whole food sources

of protein and guess what barely touches

insulin at all fat fat is metabolically

the quietest and safest macronutrient

you can eat because it barely stimulates

insulin is ketosis a state like do I is

it like a binary State like now I'm in

ketosis and now I'm

not so yes but there's there's a yes um

let me put it this way that most experts

will agree

that um in order to be quote in

ketosis um your level of beta hydroxy

butter rate on a blood Ketone meter uh a

blood Ketone meter U um is PR finger and

and put a drop of blood on this little

test strip and it will read the amount

of a particular Ketone in the blood

called beta

hydroxate and it it will give you a

reading if that reading is point is 0.5

Millo or higher you are in ketosis in

ketosis so what does that mean why why

is the cut off 0 five because three

things have to happen for you to get to

at least 0. five one is your glucose

levels have to come down the second

thing is is your insulin levels have to

come down the third thing is you have to

burn off a certain amount of the stored

starch in your liver we have a a storage

tank for carbohydrate in our liver it's

not very big it holds less than a day's

worth of carbohydrate because really as

animals we're designed to store energy

as fat carbohydrates there for quick

Energy emergency short-term um the fat

we For Better or For Worse we have

almost an unlimited capability to store

fat we can store months and months and

months wor of fat and so um but we can

only store a very small amount of

carbohydrate so if your storage tank in

the liver is full your body will not

switch to fat burning because it says oh

we've got plenty of starch to burn let's

start there once it comes down to a

certain point the body goes oh running

out of energy let's go to fat now and

that's when the the liver will start

breaking fat down whether it's fat on

your body or fat from your plate

and start chopping it up into these

ketones and uh but so those three things

have to happen and once that happens

that you'll see the Ketone levels rise

on the meter so most people who are not

eating a ketogenic diet are walking

around with Ketone levels either

undetectable or they're 0 2 or they're

three they might they might float up

into above 05 every once in a while if

they're not eating for a long time or um

uh or if they've just exercised but for

the most part most people uh eating a

typical diet are not in ketosis and when

you get above 0.5 a lot of metabolic

magic starts to happen because there are

lots of Pathways in the body and brain

that uh are not very active unless

you're in ketosis and those are the

healing Pathways the recycling and

maintenance and cleanup Pathways the

recovery Pathways all of

us this is something that I I came to

appreciate a number of years ago as I've

been studying this is that

there are many people unfortunately or

fortunately there are many people who

discover with mental health issues that

they need to be in ketosis long term in

order to be

well but I've become convinced by the

science that all of us need to be in

ketosis um at least intermittently all

of us need to spend some time in ketosis

on a regular basis or else we can't heal

we'll only be it it's like a it's like a

manufacturing plant where the plant is

just running 24/7 12 months a year and

and they never take time to replace the

parts or clean up the floor or you know

they never do any maintenance work or

repair work and So eventually everything

breaks down and when you say ketosis

again you're not saying the the keto

diet you're saying the low levels of

glucose um and Insulin exactly in the

blood and that can be achieved by

calorie restriction potentially fasting

I guess you could achieve it and other

diets like the Mediterranean diet if

administered in the right sort of doses

right well um we we should come back to

the Mediterranean diet a minute but

first the first part of your question is

important because ketosis is you can as

you said you can get into ketosis a

variety of different ways if you're

eating properly and this would have been

our evolutionary Heritage our ancestors

especially our prehistoric

ancestors um they have access to these

lots and lots of refined carbohydrates a

long time ago um they were eating

carbohydrates from uh Whole Foods uh

fruits and starchy root vegetables right

and uh and so even grains and beans are

very very relative relatively much newer

sources of carbohydrate so let's think

about fruits and vegetables but so they

they would have been we can only guess B

look looking at their diets we don't

have proof of this but think about it if

you're eating in a way where your

insulin levels are allowed to come down

overnight if you're eating if you're

eating a a balanced diet so to speak but

it's got everything it needs in it and

it's not giving you exaggerated spikes

in your glucose and exaggerated spikes

in your insulin and you're not eating

six times a day or all day long your

insulin levels will naturally come down

overnight and that will that will allow

you to go into a healing mode so I

believe that if people have the right

information about what a healthy diet is

supposed to look like they may may not

even need to in many cases especially if

you're younger or athletic or don't have

a lot of metabolic damage already um you

may not need to you may not need to

lower your carbohydrate intake during

the day you might just need to be

careful about what kinds of carbohydrate

you eat and how often um so for example

it's known that in children um they're

who are eating a regular diet many of

them wake up the next morning in ketosis

they're metabolically much healthier

than uh we are as we get older so

they're much more metabolically flexible

um and uh so now they didn't go on a

ketogenic diet they were eating a

regular diet they slept overnight didn't

eat anything the next morning they're in

ketosis that's not true for all children

but it's true for enough children that

we know it's possible most adults it

takes them several days at least to get

into ketosis even if they're not eating

anything at all so f fasting can take 2

to 3 days at a minimum for most people

to get into ketosis but some people it

can take a whole week and you talked

about children there one of the big

conversations at the moment around

children is the the rise in ADHD

diagnosis and there's a lot of different

sort of thoughts on the causal factors

of this and what is it that's making

children be diagnosed at higher and

higher rates with these sort of neurod

Divergent

disorders is there any evidence to

suggest that what we're eating is

playing a role in these neurod Divergent

disorders

yes the first thing I would like to tell

you about is that there were studies

quite a few studies back in in 80s 90s

and early 2000s in Europe by variety of

different research teams that explored

exactly the question you're asking and

what they did um was they placed

children with ADHD some quite severe

ADHD even Hospital level ADHD

and put them on something called a few

Foods diet this is uh the scientists

call it an oligo antigenic diet which

just means it's kind of a low allergen

diet so it's they removed all of the

common culprits and they focus mostly on

just a few Whole Foods uh and and and a

few extras so very specifically

describing this diet most of these diets

were um chicken lamb fruits vegetables

um and sometimes they throw in some

apple juice and margarine because they

couldn't use butter because Dairy is a

common allergen so but these were mostly

Whole Foods diets you know uh uh poultry

red meat fruits vegetables um and there

62 to 82% response rate to these diets

no matter which study you looked at and

in some of these studies there was a 70%

cure rate within weeks of changing the

diet to a few Foods diet so what does

this tell us

it doesn't tell us which foods were the

problem it tells us that food can be the

problem that if you make diet the right

dietary changes it's possible for

children even with very severe ADHD to

improve within weeks to the point that

they no longer qualify for having ADHD

anymore because there's a change in the

symptoms oh yes um the children's uh

Behavior as rated by parents and

teachers um and the researchers

themselves so just uh did some research

to find some stats on this sure diet

modification isn't widely prescribed as

a way to alleviate ADHD symptoms is it

it says as of 2019 major health

organizations including the American um

Academy of Pediatrics and the National

Institute of Health and Care Excellence

do not recommend dietary modifications

as standard treatment for ADHD due to

insufficient

evidence a 2014 review found elimination

diets might offer minor benefits in sub

in a subset of children particularly

those with food sensitivities or

allergies however these benefits are not

substantial enough to advocate for

widespread dietary changes in ADHD

management so what I would say to that

is uh there are multiple studies all

pointing in the same direction that I

think give parents and families and

children tremendous hope with really no

risk MH what are we doing

instead we're medicating children we're

giving children

stimulants which can stunt their growth

make them anxious um and and cost money

MH and is I mean I I'm one of the

reasons I do this work is

because I really don't think that for

most people the right thing to do is to

medicate our way out of this situation I

mean just about every mental and

physical health issue we have is we

think about we've just kind of been

condition to think about medications as

the solution but medications don't solve

problems they cover them up and what we

really want to do is want to get to the

root of these problems and not just

treat them which nutrition interventions

can do in many

cases but perhaps even prevent them from

happening in the first place can they

all be treated by because you know I I

was I guess technically diagnosed with

ADHD but I don't take any medication for

it I'm it's a personal choice I

personally just um don't think that the

net impact has on my life is worth

taking any medication I also have

friends with ADHD who have significantly

worse symptoms when I say worse I mean

more pronounced symptoms than I do so my

personal decision was just not to take

the medication however I sat here with a

guy called Dr aan Who has a daughter who

had ADHD she got the medication and it

turned her life around like she went on

to become super successful but was like

struggling in school so

it's really difficult isn't it because

it's such a personalized sort of

personal decision

and some people have it more extreme and

in a way that makes their life more

dysfunctional than others you know and

my some some of my friends do really say

they say I took this medication for my

ADHD or my my tension issues whatever

and it's been revolutionary for me they

just like they they just offload on me

how profound it's been for them

so I guess it goes back to being a

personal it does but you

know so I have a lot of experience

treating ADHD because I worked for two

years at an ADHD Specialty Clinic called

the Hallowell Center outside Boston I

also worked for 13 years in college

mental health at Harvard and at Smith

college and saw lots and lots and lots

of students with ADHD most of who

actually had it some of who didn't

who're just looking for stimulants but I

I can tell you as a psychiatrist who's

prescribed medications for 25 years the

stimulants are some of the most

effective medicines we have in our

toolbox for the people it works for it

works very very well so and it can be

life-changing a lot of people think of

ADHD as oh a minor issue oh you can't

concentrate or or maybe you're Daydream

or maybe you're fidgety or you know

maybe you get distracted 8 HD can be a

really serious condition just like all

mental health conditions it exists on a

spectrum of mild to very severe and so

people with ADHD are at much higher risk

for suicidal ideation they're much

higher risk for substance abuse they're

at much higher risk for accidents

they're much higher risk for depression

for

anxiety these and and twice the twice

the rate of divorce in people with with

adults with ADHD these are serious can

be for some people

really disabling conditions people

cannot function in their lives they

can't function in their relationships

they can't hold a job you know they they

feel so frustrated and

Powerless I mean I was telling you that

I worked with students in in in you know

these Elite universities right these are

very intelligent people who were

struggling 10 times harder than their

peers in in classes they had to work so

much harder they had to stay up four or

five hours later than everybody else and

and and they did because they were

hardworking but they're really suffering

and this discrepancy

between how smart I am and how much I

think I should be able to do and how

much I'm actually able to do makes me

feel bad about myself right they feel

bad about themselves and because they

know they're capable of more but they

can't get there and it's a real

biological condition now the great thing

about this is a perfect example that you

could we could have this conversation

about any mental health condition but

ADHD is a great example

because there's always a risk benefit

analysis when you're thinking about how

are we going to treat this condition uh

so do you want to take medication what

are the pros and cons of that does the

medication work for you does it give you

side effects can you access the

medication uh can you afford the

medication um how hard is is lifestyle

change for you one of the most powerful

interventions for edhd and I think

probably the a just maybe one of the

most Stellar examples I can think of is

this change your lifestyle to suit your

strengths play to your strengths and

don't try to swim upstream against your

weaknesses people with ADHD often have

tremendous talents in certain areas and

are tremendously gifted in certain ways

because they can make connections

because they don't always think in a

straight line because they they often

have very diverse interests and they can

pull different kinds of information

together and you know given the right

path they can be hugely successful right

but that's not possible for everybody

and for more severe cases of ADHD it's

not possible at all has there been any

studies on the link between the

ketogenic diet and ADHD so not yet but

I'm I'm very excited to to to be

involved in two brand new studies of the

ketogenic diet for ADHD so one is a uh

ketogenic diet for uh adults with ADHD

and depression that's getting started at

Oxford University in

2025 and the other is a study of uh

ketogenic diets for ADHD and adults at

the University of Michigan it's also

going to be starting in 2025 we have no

data on ketogenic diets and ADHD but we

have good reason to believe the reason

we were able to get funding for these

studies is because there's there's

reason to believe that it could be

useful and because when you look at ADHD

you see Clues to poor metabolic health

so for example children with obesity are

twice as likely to have ADHD obesity is

a marker for insulin resistance adults

with type 2 diabetes are twice as likely

to have ADHD type two diabetes is severe

endstage insulin resistance and the

ketogenic diet is the most effective way

to address insulin resistance that we

have at our disposal is it hard to

establish cause and effect there

I was thinking about the the diabetes

one where if you've had ADHD maybe your

life has been harder again I don't know

what I'm talking about here but maybe

your life has been harder and if your

life has been harder you're more likely

to be obese potentially if you've been

gone had more stress and you've you know

you've had a a worse a worse more

challenging job and so is it you

know and will will a test be able to

exclude these sort of confounding

factors to the point that we'll know for

sure I think that would be a very

difficult study to to design but I think

what I can tell you from my clinical

work CU I work I'm a general

psychiatrist so I see adults of all ages

and with all psychiatric conditions from

major to minor and I've worked as I said

with people with ADHD of you know

hundreds and hundreds of patients with

ADHD what I can tell you is that it's

the same with medication um if someone

comes in and says to me uh I can't tell

if this medication is working um uh so

should I keep taking it and I'll say

well you know if you can't feel it

working then it's not working uh so when

the diet works it works regardless of

what's going on around the person so and

this is true for all conditions that

I've worked with so people with bipolar

disorder people with depression people

with ADHD people with PTSD people with

anxiety as you have said we talked about

the ketogenic diet is not easy to stick

to right people fall off the ketogenic

diet all the time uh sometimes

accidentally sometimes intentionally

right and you can see their symptoms

come back within often 24 hours even

though their external factors have not

changed so life hasn't changed it's the

diet and when you follow the actual

Ketone levels daily you can make that

correlation so what's really exciting

about both of these studies is it's not

just getting somebody into ketosis it's

it's

tracking um on a data to-day basis their

Ketone level and their attention

symptoms and seeing if we can see them

go up and down together and we've always

get a little bit of data already from a

pilot study at U um uh um by Ali Houston

at uh at Oxford University we're

starting to see some signals there but

it's too early really uh we need to

actually launch the official study so in

my

patients it's it's a phenomenon I've

seen over over and over and over again

um a great example is I have a

patient um that I worked with for a

couple of years who had a a condition

called bipolar disorder type two so it's

a it's a form of bipolar disorder uh

bipolar disorder people used to call

manic depression you've got periods of

mania often followed by periods of deep

depression bipolar type 2 is a milder

form where you don't get quite as manic

um and but you still can can get very

depressed so he had bipolar to um and

whenever so so uh he came to me because

he wanted to try a ketogenic diet for

bipolar disorder because um uh uh he had

heard it might help so the other issue

he was dealing with was that he um and

his wife were having some difficulties

some difficulty in their relationship

that had started up a few years before

and you know every time they got into an

argument he would want to die and he

would start to think about ways of

killing himself

self every single time he went on the

ketogenic diet the suicidal ideation

went away even though his wife had not

so he used to associate the depression

with the marriage but he learned over

time to associate it with his metabolic

state that when he was in ketosis he

could then imagine other ways of coping

with the stress in his marriage other

than just killing himself so he it a lot

of people say to me that the ketogenic

diet gives this space it allows them to

pull back and see things from a

different perspective it buys them time

perspective it's like a buffer so that

people people aren't reacting as

reflexively to difficult situation

situation hasn't changed but people are

able to deal with the situation in a

more effective way they feel they have

more control not just over their

emotions but also over their behaviors

and how they react to situations

at my company flight Studio which is

part of my bigger company flight group

we're constantly looking for ways to

build deeper connections with our

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find the link in the description

below and for people that have

food addictions and binge eating

problems the ketogenic diet I guess it's

knocking you off that roller coaster

what well being in a state of ketosis is

knocking you off that roller coaster of

craving eating craving eating craving

eating is that accurate is that what

it's doing yes so um the ketogenic diet

by lowering and stabilizing glucose and

insulin levels the thing about insulin

is that a lot of people think about

insulin as a blood sugar regul later

they think of it as oh you know it uh

when your glucose goes up the insulin

brings it down and and that's true but

that's it's just one of many important

roles that insulin has it's the one it's

most famous for but the thing that uh

what is not well known is that insulin

is so much more than a blood sugar

regulator it's actually a master

metabolic hormone and it's regulating

the activity of every cell in the body

every cell has an insulin receptor on

its surface multiple insulin receptors

to pay attention to the insulin level in

the blood and

so uh when you're on a glucose and

Insulin roller

coaster that's just where the trouble

begins insulin is talking to and

controlling the behavior and levels and

activity of many other hormones in the

blood including stress hormones like

adrenaline and cortisol um reproductive

hormones like estrogen and testost

cherone your blood pressure regulating

hormones your satiety hormones the

hormones that make you feel full after

you eat your hunger hormones so many

other hormones are on this roller

coaster uh that you're unstable from

within and people often will think well

I'm stressed and that's why I'm eating I

I I feel really anxious um I get

irritable I get stressed I'm hungry I

need to eat and then I feel better and

that's true they will they will feel

better for a few hours

but what what happens four to five hours

later if they've eaten something that's

spiked their glucose and Insulin again

is they're going to get there's this

great study with um healthy teenage boys

they took healthy teenage boys and they

gave them either a sugar-free

Cola uh caffeine-free or a caffeine-free

Cola sweetened with sugar and the boys

who had the sugar sweetened Cola their

adrenaline levels their stress hormone

levels of adrenaline

quadrupled four to five hours after

drinking the soda and the boys who drank

the other soda stayed flat it's the food

that's causing the stress that's causing

the food eating you so there's this

vicious cycle if people understood that

most of what's happening there it's not

your fault that you want to overeat

those Foods they are designed to be

overeaten like chemical Engineers these

this is very very intelligent um

engineering that's going on very clever

and uh you will sell more of a product

if you make it irresistible and if you

make it

unsatisfying how many people feel that

they can't control their consumption of

certain foods that's by Design if you if

you want to keep eating it you'll buy

more of it if you eat real

food you have to stop after a little

while they're so satisfying things like

meat Seafood poultry eggs fruit veget

Veges even fruits fruits some people

will overeat fruit but but fruit has

fiber it has water it's really hard to

eat you know 10 pieces of

fruit very easy to drink you know a

bottle of several bottles of fruit juice

very easy um to eat multiple packages of

candy because those what happens with

ultr processed carbohydrates these

refined carbohydrates they blow past

your hormonal stop signs and that's not

your fault but if you understand that

that's what's happening then you can

takes a few days you got to step away

from them but but on the other side is

tremendous freedom and

control the gentleman you mentioned in

that case study a second ago you

referred to as Carl which I guess is a

cloaked name um he's the one that had

the bipolar disorder uh no Carl is a

different case ah okay tell me about Co

yeah so I opened the book with the story

ofl Carl who has you know generously

allowed me to share his story um a

gentleman great guy in his

mid-60s who had had lifelong depression

and

anxiety and uh for years he he didn't

seek any treatment and then maybe about

15 years or so before he consulted with

me he went to an A A psychiat A

Psychiatry specialty clinic for some

specialized brain Imaging and uh

extensive evaluation and lots and lots

of specialized tests and he left the

clinic with thousands of dollars later

with three diagnosis depression anxiety

and ADHD and three prescriptions one for

depression one for anxiety one for ADHD

so he started those

medications and his depression got a lot

better but he then uh had a brand new

problem on his hands which was he was

becoming Manic and he had never had

Mania before so he was been

uncharacteristically um energetic and uh

um uh irritable and unpleasant and so it

was changing it was changing his

character his personality a certain his

behavior in a certain way that was

becoming very unpleasant at work and at

home so he then turned to marijuana to

try to take the edge off developed a

marijuana addiction now he's got another

problem and so he thought to himself you

know this isn't this isn't what I signed

up for I was trying to solve a problem

and now I've got two new problems on my

hands so he took himself off the

medications and said you know I I I

can't use medication medications is not

for me I'm going to try to manage my

mood issues my depression anxiety with

rigorous exercise I'm going to let

exercise be my medicine and he started

cycling uh bikes over a 100 miles a week

and it actually helped a lot it didn't

completely resolve all of the symptoms

but it brought them down to um a very

manageable level uh for years so

exercise was his medicine exercise

improves metabolic health and so he was

still eating a standard American diet

he'd never tried any dietary changes

before and then um what happened is as

he entered his 60s the depression

anxiety started to rise in the

background exercise wasn't working quite

as well as it had and then uh just

before he met with me something

stressful it happened at work and it was

essentially a shift in his job

description which was making him anxious

and he started experiencing very

suddenly these bouts of um agitation and

anxiety and restlessness and exercise

being his medicine he would he would

cycle on the weekends

and at night if it was a if it was it

was happening on a week night a work

night he would be walking because he

couldn't bike at night when it was dark

he would walk sometimes eight even 25

miles to try to get rid of this excess

energy and he said I don't have time for

this I can't exercise enough to keep my

symptoms under control he didn't know

what else to do he starts searching

online for Solutions came across

information about carnivore diets and

mental health contacted me for a consult

and said I want to try the carnivore

diet for my for my

anxiety and I mean there were lots of

other things we could have done uh to

improve the quality of his diet but this

is what he wanted to do because he was

hoping that would bring him the most the

the fastest relief so switched to a

carnivore diet 3 to four pounds of fatty

meat per day mostly pork and beef this

was dairy free no plants and uh he

checked his ketones using urine testing

which Which is less expensive than blood

testing uh he's in mild ketosis every

day using urine strips and uh he started

to improve by week three by week six his

score was zero on all his depression and

anxiety scales he had no

symptoms at all of of depression anxiety

not just of those recent extreme

symptoms that he was experiencing but

the symptoms that went back his entire

life that had never completely resolved

before so he said you know I I this is

the I've never felt this well in my

entire life and so this is the power of

these strategies is they don't just

reduce symptoms a little bit they

actually have the power to heal the

underlying problem in ways that I mean

this is a phrase I've heard so many

times I feel better than I've ever felt

in my entire life you don't hear that

when you prescribe medications for

people generally that was in

2019 was it uh I couldn't tell you what

year but that sounds right how is he

doing now yeah I mean we we are still we

we still talk with each other uh several

times a year he's doing very well in

fact so he one of the interesting things

about what happened with this diet is

that during that long period of of

intermittent

agitation uh he you know he's a very

physically fit guy because of all the

exercise and he and he was lean he lost

10 pounds during that period of

agitation that he could not afford to

lose when he first started working with

me he was underweight

and despite eating four pounds of fatty

meat per day he couldn't regain that 10

pounds unless we added uh back some

carbohydrate into the diet this is

really this is a subtle point but for