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>> Why not just remove the broadcast

networks from those rules? Why are they

I I'm some like they shouldn't be bound

by that [ __ ] Brandon Carr who's clearly

looking for his next job which will be

Dancing with the Nazis.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser.

>> And I'm Scott Galloway.

>> And we are live from South by Southwest

in Texas.

>> So before we before we get to it, um

again I we're psyched to be here uh this

live episode. We want to thank our

presenting sponsor ODU. They've

supported they sponsored our pivot tour

last year. So they're really into us. Um

we will get to everything else, but

Scott, I have a surprise for you. I

don't know if you know this, but I have

a television show coming up on CNN.

>> Really?

>> Yes.

>> I heard it's a horror film called Cara's

Going to Live Forever.

>> Yes. So, I'm going to play a little

clipboard cuz someone that I work with

is in the show itself. Cuz largely I

felt sorry because he's had so many

disasters in television. I thought he

should be part of a hit series.

>> Zero for five. Five TV series. I haven't

seen any of them, have you?

>> Yeah. All right, let's go. This is going

to be a huge hit and it's going to

really chap his ass. So, go ahead.

>> Wow.

>> Wow.

>> Doesn't this land in the backyard of a

Colorado household owned by a woman

named Mindy?

>> Mor. Mor and Mindy.

>> It's a state-of-the-art sound therapy

pod that is using sound playing in your

body. So, there's a lot of science-based

frequencies designed to calm your

nervous system at a cellular level. We

typically call it an inner and out of

body experience. You know those moments

where you suddenly have to ask yourself,

"How did I end up here?"

>> This feels like the lamest crypt in the

world, and I'm stuck with Cara.

>> Well, Emily Ratikowski was busy.

>> This was one of those. I was deep inside

a concrete basement in New York City

about to embark on an auditory journey

that is designed to help my body repair,

restore, and transform itself.

>> We're going to take you on a beautiful

sound journey.

>> Sound journey, Scott.

>> All right. My traveling companion was my

good friend and podcast partner Scott

Galloway.

>> I just had a deep insight. Cara, this

longevity trend.

>> Hasn't the earth suffered enough?

Shouldn't we just die?

Um,

anyway, it's coming uh April 11th, but

the the plot spoiler there is Scott

falls asleep in it and has no journey.

He just snores. Um,

and there is no real science to that.

So, just among other things we prove,

but we had a nice time.

>> Yeah. And that's definitely going to

save CNN.

>> Yeah.

Oh, well, I won't be there when the

Ellison's take over, so that's fine with

me. Um, anyway, uh, we've got a lot to

get to. Well, first of all, you having a

good time here? Are you enjoying it?

>> I'm having a great time. I went out last

night. I'm so sick of rolling up to the

the parties now kind of suck cuz you

meet some guy and you're like, I want to

grab a drink and he's like, I'm 8 years

sober and now I'm a Pelaton influencer.

[ __ ] you.

I want to find the guy who's in a

custody battle so he can never see his

kids. That dude I'll roll with.

Anything? No,

>> I'm having a nice time.

>> You're having a nice time.

>> Everyone is working on their sleep.

Well, good for you.

>> So, uh, you're leaving. You're going to

the Van Fair Oscar party. That should be

fun.

>> Hello.

>> Yeah, that should be good. I'm not

going. I'm staying.

>> I was the plus one. And the plus one

RSVPd yes. And Cara said no.

>> So, you'll have a good time. Try not to

bother the celebrities. That's my only

advice. Just be cool. Okay. Can you do

that?

>> Thank you for that. That's hugely

helpful. Thank you.

Just be cool for me.

>> Is there anyone you want to meet? Is

there like Sean? He probably won't be

there. He's

>> I want to meet simple. I want to meet

the um

>> I was going to say the gay hockey guys.

What's it called?

>> Heated rivalry.

>> Heated rivalry. I'm sorry. I'm just

announcing now executive producer season

2 heated rivalry.

Swedish women's team. Biggest show of

next season. Biggest show of next

season.

>> Oh god. I'm going to go for two here.

>> I'm I'm going to alert security at the

Vanity Fair Oscar party for this. But

anyway, just be cool. Say nice things.

They You'll probably get recognized by

some of them. It'll be nice.

>> I'll be at the bar. That's all.

>> All right. Excellent. All right. We've

got a lot to get to today. We've got a

lot to talk about. There's so much. It's

crazy amounts of news all the time and

every every moment. But, uh, first

thing, surprise, surprise. Wealthy

people are swaying elections with their

money. billionaires made up about 19% of

all reported campaign donations of 2024

federal elections. This is a a well it's

a quantum leap in numbers. Within the

19% for every dollar that went to

Democrats, $5 went to Republicans. The

billionaire families gave an average

total of $10 million each, roughly equal

to the amount a h 100,000 typical donors

give combined. Um Scott, before Citizens

United, the share of billionaire

spending was under 1%. This is 19%.

That's an enormous amount of people,

enormous number for a small amount of

people. Let's talk a little bit about

that because obviously billionaires

taxes are being discussed. Um there's

all there's all manner of things

happening here, but their influence is

absolutely clear.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you think about 19%

from 900 people, it's um look, it's the

boring stuff that kind of moves the

needle that that's not that interesting

to talk about. But we're gonna wash,

rinse, and repeat a cycle of autocrats.

Uh I actually believe there's uh if you

look at history, there's as much danger

of an autocrat coming from the far left

as from the far right. I believe the far

left is as dangerous as the far right.

It's the extremes that present a threat

to society. And the two things that are

probably most important to avoiding a

strong man or a strong woman uh from

either side of the party are very boring

things. But until we have them, we're

going to have the weaponization of a

decline in the structural and economic

standing in my opinion of of middle

class, especially middle class males who

tend to be unfortunately more violent

and upset when they don't have economic

or romantic prospect. But the two major

reforms that need to happen or we're

going to have a cycle of strong men and

strong women for the next 50 years is

one, we need to dej gerrymander the US

because the the general election no

longer matters. It's the primary. And

who turns out in the primary? The

crazies. So every district now is hard

blue or hard left. And we keep sending

um 535

very far-left or very far-right people

who share no comety, no no collective

values, don't want to work together, and

nothing happens and they genuinely don't

like each other. And the

the narrative from our leadership is not

how do we work together and get

something done. It's that the other guys

are wrong. And so it creates a level of

division and stasis that's really

unproductive. And then the other thing

is Citizens United. We can't have a

small group of people who aren't evil,

but incrementally will say, "Hey,

Charles Schumer," and I'll use a

Democrat as an example because we always

talk about Republicans. Democrats take a

lot of money, too. It's Republican it's

it's Republican donors typically, but

also Democrats do do bask in a lot of

the pack money. And what happens is

Republicans are much more overt about

trying to get tax cuts for who they

think are the most productive people and

corporations in the world. What

Democrats do is just ring their hands

and kill stuff in committee and say they

have concerns about things. But if you

have until we have Citizens United

overturned and dejerrymander, we're just

going to ping from the far left to the

far right for the foreseeable future. it

I I do think the Republicans are sort of

doing things in plain sight in a in an

effective way by channeling all this

money, right? And but the number from

going from 1% to 19%, it's a very and

you're right, it's a very small amount

of people. And actually, it's a small

amount of people from Silicon Valley.

So, it's a very particular I mean,

there's there's the Ulanes, the box

people, there's a bunch of other rich

people you don't know as well. And by

the way, look on your bottom of your

boxes. That's what you're getting from

Amazon is from this very far-right

family. Um, but one of the things that's

the problem here is that that this stuff

is done in plain sight. And what's

they're not going to under overturn

Citizens United from what I understand.

I interviewed Larry Leig recently who

has another case that could hollow out

Citizens United in terms of super PACs

and dark money.

>> Um, but what is the solution until then?

Because I don't think they're letting

up. I don't I think they won't let up in

this presidential election. It doesn't

seem like all of a sudden Elon Musk is

gonna call start calling himself they

them. It's not happening for us. So what

what could be done in the interim

because he will continue to spend. He's

sort of the the poster child for this.

But then you quietly have a whole bunch

of them doing the same thing.

>> The honest answer is I don't know. I

don't know if there's a way to prohibit

certain political spending across

certain more targeted media. Mhm.

>> Um, so I have a movement called Resist

and Unsubscribe and neither Alphabet nor

Meta would take my dollars to drive

traffic, but if you want to, you know,

promote Cole and get in the way of the

earned child tax credit, spend away. So

I also I think there might be some

workarounds that people have talked

about by going state by state.

>> Mhm.

>> But until

I I think until unless it's overturned,

which I agree with you, it doesn't look

>> this is all a word salad of saying I

don't know.

>> Yeah. So when you think about we've

talked a lot about the billionaire tax.

Um, you have proposed other things like

an AMT tax and there's some things in

committee right now, speaking of

Democrats, which seem much more

effective, which is giving tax relief to

people under a certain number. Um, and

then at the same time making the group

of people taxed larger.

>> Well, there's three different tax

proposals. So the Democrats, to our

credit, have finally wised up and

realized that they need to move from

their objective of redistributing

virtue, telling other people they're not

as worthy, constantly talking through

identity politics about what's right and

what's wrong with the world. And if you

tell billionaires they're evil and white

people they're racist, and young men

that they're predators, they'll leave

the party. I'm like, "Okay, this part is

not for me." And if you look at those

three groups, they have largely

abandoned the Democratic party. So what

they realize is that the key to 26 and

28 is to talk less about redistributing

virtue and redistributing income. And

also that the best narrative for

redistributing income is tax cuts, not

not handouts. Now the three there's the

Conor proposal, there's the Booker

proposal, and then there's the Warren

um proposal. Warren is basically class

warfare. It's a 5% tax, wealth tax every

year. That may not sound like a lot, but

the majority of people don't have 5%

liquid taxes sitting around. I can't

imagine the hundreds of thousands of

people who would be hired to try and

diminish or decrease or lower the value

assessed value of billionaires wealth.

It goes after basically 900 people.

Actually, that's not true. People over a

billion, it's 5%. But to tell

billionaires they have to come up with

5% of their wealth every year, I do

think that that's the tipping point

where you would lose somewhere between a

quarter at least from a residency

standpoint to a third of billionaires in

the US. The example is the non-dom tax

in the United uh in the United Kingdom.

It was theoretically it made all the

sense in the world. It's like you've

been here for a while, you should pay UK

taxes. The tax receipts this year are

going to be lower because 10,000

millionaires have moved away in the last

year and people have this populist

[ __ ] of let them go. Well, okay,

who's going to pay for the NHS? So, the

wealth tax doesn't work. The wealthy are

the most mobile people in the world.

They have homes all over the world. They

can have really nice lives in Milan or

in London. So, if you're looking to

actually be effective, not, you know,

not just right, the wealth tax doesn't

work. Rose is more about social services

and and corpor corporate taxes, expanded

child tax c tax credit. The one I like

the most is Bookers. His he's saying,

okay, it's the first 75,000. It's

taxfree. Right now, what people don't

realize is that first off, the myth that

wealthy don't pay their taxes. The top

1% paid 19% in 1980. Now they pay 42%.

It's the 0.1% that are getting away

quite frankly with murder that can use

all sorts of tricks to lower their tax

rate into the high teens. But the 1% the

workh horses mom's a baller at a law

firm. She's a partner making a million

half 2 million bucks. Dad owns three

chiropractic clinics. He's making 800

grand. They make 2.3 2.8 million. They

probably live in a blue state in a blue

city. They're paying 48 or 52% uh

marginal tax rate. So the whole notion

of tax the rich doesn't go very far.

What I think what Booker is saying is

essentially if you go the first 70 the

first 29,000 pay almost no pay no

federal taxes right now. He's saying be

at the first 75,000. Now, the devil in

the details is that even though it

sounds like, oh, that benefits people

who make up to 75,000 the most, it

actually benefits people who make

150,000 the most because they get to

apply that free 79 in the lower tax rate

on a larger base. It's a good idea. It's

time that we level up the middle class.

So, I like that. And it's it's a little

bit more elegant. Whenever you send

money to Washington as opposed to

lowering taxes, there's some

inefficiency and friction in Washington.

So, I think it's a good idea, but I

think there are more elegant ways to

raise tax revenue. Um, lower basically

do away with or lower the estate tax,

the uh the exemption on money that's

inherited from 30 million to 1 million.

We're creating dynastic wealth. And the

key is to have taxes that are least

taxing. If your kids inherit 11 million

instead of 14 million, you're obviously

no less happier because you're not

around to see it. and the kid isn't any

any less happier if he gets 11 million

or she gets 11 million versus 14

million. The other thing we need is uh

AMT and that is if you make over say a

million bucks or you're a corporation

that makes over 10 million bucks use the

4,000 pages of loopholes to skirt it

down skirt it down 1202 depreciation but

if you're not paying at least 40%

there's an AMT. So, an alternative

minimum tax and then um triple the

budget of the IRS because the biggest

tax cut in history that we don't talk

about is that the Trump administration

has essentially neutered uh the IRS. So,

crime's going to go up when there's no

cops on the beat. Supposedly, $750

billion a year is called the tax gap,

which is uncollected taxes that are

owed. So, get rid of the estate tax

exemption, alternative minimum tax of

40%. support the IRS

>> and support the IRS as opposed to what

feels a little bit like class warfare.

>> That's an interesting thing. I don't

think it works very well because people

are aspirational. That said, the the

tech people especially who are the

wealthiest um have not really slathered

themselves in glory in terms of people

we I mean they the brand has gone down.

And so I think people don't when when

Jeff Bezos rents Venice or uh or or Alex

Karp talks about disenfranchising

white Democratic women. I think that's

what he was sort of saying in his

statements the other day. Um it it feels

like let's get them like they're they're

sort of they're they're creating an

anger toward them that uh that I think

is unnecessary and unproductive and at

the same time you sort of want to take

all their you know leave them naked

without clothes. Um, not well I don't

want to see them naked. That's not true.

Um, but it's a real it's a real

conundrum and I do think one of the

things that has to happen is there's got

to be some neutering of Citizens United

in that regard because I think it's very

clear what the trends have been. On a

middle metal level, the biggest tax cut

would be having the stones to go after

entitlements because we spent $7

trillion on $5 trillion in receipts.

And every time we do that, in order to

keep the government pumped up and going,

and the asset prices, the assets which

you and I own, keep them elevated, we

issue more debt. So the biggest tax cut

in history would be fiscal

responsibility. And it's a tax cut on

your kids in the future who are going to

have absolutely no money in the

government to invest in education or

technology. And if you really want to

get serious about quote unquote taxing

future generations, some Democrat is

going to have to be the adult in the

room and say that if you make over a

million dollars a year as a senior

citizen, you're not getting social

security. And we need to move back the

age and we need to means test it and we

need to distribute GLP1 and bring down

health care costs. But if we're serious

about lowering taxes on future

generations, we can have populist ideas.

But what we need to do, quite frankly,

is just have more of a fiscal

responsibility because the deficit every

day is a $2 trillion tax on future

generations because someone's going to

have to pay the ship back.

>> Well, that may be true, but it's the

Trump administration who's brought up

the deficit more than any other of any

of the

>> we that's been a bipartisan thing.

>> Certainly, but Trump is

>> 7 trillion George B George Washington to

George Bush, 30 trillion since George

Bush. But Trump's been the worst.

>> Been the worst. So, um, we're going to

move on to March Madness. Kicks off this

week. The the and sports books are

expecting to take in $4.5 billion in

bets on the NCA college basketball

tournaments. Now, only 11% of that will

come from the prediction markets this

year, which is a large amount, but

that's a perfect time for Poly Market to

announce that it's bringing in Palunteer

and uh TWWG AI to monitor sports

contracts and flag anything suspicious.

Reminder, Poly Market is backed by Peter

Teal and 1789 Capital, which is uh

Donald Trump Jr.'s fund in AI system

monitoring predictions markets. It seems

like that's the fox guarding the hen

house.

>> But is it meant to is it meant to so in

the MAMI race, what was strange when you

see billboards everywhere saying that

mom dami chance of winning 91%.

If you're voting for Cuomo or some other

candidate, I I supported a guy named,

you know, Whitney Tilson. I'm not a New

York resident, but my friend Whitney

ran. Anyways, you don't show up or you

think, "Oh, great." You get excited. So,

these prediction markets actually the

polls have the polls have an influence

on the actual voting. I think AI in

terms of monitoring, I like the idea. I

I've always felt that AI could be used

for defensive measures as much as

offensive measures. whether or not Peter

Teal has other objectives that's a

little bit scarier.

>> Maybe he does.

>> So that you're right. It's not AI as a

defense mechanism or for compliance.

It's the fact that Peter Teal who

believes in in

>> no democracy I believe is his

>> Yeah. Feels like democracy is an

outdated mode. So but just in terms of

gambling huge threat to young men and

what people don't know about gambling as

an addiction is that it's got the

highest suicide rate of any addiction.

Because if you have a meth addiction,

people people notice it and they weigh

in. You can spend your kids' college

fund, mortgage your house, spend

everything, and people have no idea. And

often times people feel like it's it's

it's just too late. And when in states

where they legalize gambling,

bankruptcies skyrocket 35% in that same

year. I was just in Vegas. Vegas is

dying because why be in Vegas when Vegas

is in your pocket? And I I'm curious

what you think cuz you have sons. I have

sons.

>> They don't gamble.

>> Yeah, but you're a better parent than

me. So,

>> yes. Yeah.

>> The But the question is, speaking

theoretically as a parent,

>> I don't think they gamble.

>> For young men, do we infantilize them?

Do we have more regulation? Is it a

lifeless?

>> You know, I think young men do have a a

higher risk profile. I mean, just

between my my daughter, it's more

comparable. uh my daughter who's six and

my son who's four, he's so risk I mean

penis out every moment of the day like

and it's you're always like wow those

that's gonna hurt when you get to the

bottom of those stairs on your head like

and my daughter is very careful so it's

a really it I hate to say that because I

don't like to play into gender tropes

but it's true it just is um but

>> trope away we're different and that's

okay

>> she happens to be I was very risktaky

when I was a kid Um, I I'm I'm with you,

aren't I? Hello. Um,

and someone's like, "What's your biggest

risk?" I go, "That any moment it will be

over with Scott." Like, which which it

never happens. It's like a really

exciting series that ends on a

cliffhanger every every episode. Um, but

one of the things that I think about

with gambling is I I my sons don't

gamble, which is interesting, and I kind

of like gambling better than they do,

which is interesting. But um I think the

fact that it's you're right AI should be

used in positive ways and we should

mitigate the negative ways. But again, a

lot of this is controlled by people with

self-interest that you never understand.

And so what are they um and earlier

today I did an interview with the cast

of the Audacity which talks about these

issues. It's a new Silicon Valley show

>> and the idea of the manipulation of our

information for in all manner of way I

think we do not understand where it's

about to go and so who owns it and who's

running it. Same thing with media. Where

are the interests is going to be a huge

problem going forward.

>> But your point is your point is the

right one in what you just said and that

is AI should be applied to monitoring

and compliance. It should just be an AI

that reports to a federal agency that's

trying to prevent a tragedy that

comments, not to Peter Thiel.

>> But keep I mean it's this is a difficult

one because I think a lot about young

men and between 24 by7 porn and gambling

and an economy that's basically linked

to dopa hits trying to evolve a new

species of asocial asexual males. I

believe that our economy now is

essentially tied to evolving this new

species of male that is basically a

shitty citizen who starts blaming

immigrants, prone to conspiracy theory,

prone to misogyny, prone to obesity,

depression, anxiety, never develops the

skills outside of their house. Males

aged 20 to 30 are now spending less time

outdoors than prison inmates. And

unfortunately, they're up against this

indomitable foe of an AIdriven platforms

that at the exact right moment will

convince you, hey, don't go to class,

bet on the Jets game. Or, hey, you know,

you can get rich and screenshots of

people trading crypto and why go through

the effort, perseverance, cost,

showering, resilience, developing a rap.

You know what movement I'm going to go

off script here. You know what movement

I [ __ ] hate? What

>> I think the worst movement in America

right now besides some of the farright

crazy [ __ ] is the incel movement

and involuntarily celibate and I speak

to a lot of young men and some of them

identify as being incelss and they say

it as a point of pride like they they

have found their community and that it's

not their fault and they just come out

and say I'm an incel and they give up.

62% of men under the age of 30 aren't

even trying to date. 42% of men 18 to 22

have never asked a woman out in person.

And this movement infuriates me cuz just

just a heads up, a spoiler alert. For

99% of history, 99% of men have been

involuntarily celibate. And the notion

that somehow this is a movement. Well,

welcome to the [ __ ] work week. Level

up, [ __ ] It's been hard for all of us.

>> You know what? Um,

I I feel like there's a book in there.

Um, anyway, um,

speaking of someone I wish was

incelibate, um, in case anyone's

wondering where the defense secretary

Pete Hess

stood,

oh my god, stood on the Paramount uh,

Warner deal. Uh, we know now. uh at a

briefing on Friday, Hegathth, who's a

[ __ ] called uh that's just I mean it's

factual. Um called a CNN report on the

war in Iran fake news and said the

sooner David Ellison takes over the

network the better. Um, also Brandon

Carr, Morren number two, oddly enough,

not even as smart as Pete Heg, which is

an awfully low bar, is threatening

networks because he doesn't like their

coverage of the war and is calling it

fake news. It's astonishing that the

head of the FCC says these things. It's

actually illegal what he's saying. Um,

and he's threatening the broadcast

licenses of networks who do not comply

with the correct news. Um, Teamsters are

also, by the way, urging the DOJ to

block the deal unless Paramount agrees

to protect jobs and increase US

production. talk talk about this because

they like you'd think they'd be on their

back foot at this point, but they're

doubling down on lack of con well just

everything terrible. But this was sort

of astonishing to hear from him and then

followed by the FCC chairman around a

deal where obviously the the Ellison's

licked Trump up and down like it wasn't

even I mean they did

>> um they didn't even pretend this is not

what they were doing. They made promise

they're making they apparently made

promises well reported about CNN uh and

and what they're going to do there. What

talk a little bit about this and where

you

>> him saying the the loud part out loud I

guess.

>> Well, it's not only wrong but it's

stupid because it creates but it creates

legal. It's exhibit A in a case trying

to block this to say it's an unfair

merger and that it's not based on market

dynamics. is based on government

interference which it's not supposed to.

I'm not as worried and I mean you're the

journalist here but

>> I am worried

>> I am not as worried about suppression of

speech because what I see as alternative

media niche media thriving despite these

threats and it only brings oxygen

>> you know bull work and you know puck

they'll have their biggest days today

being outraged about this on YouTube

>> so I don't think I I don't think that as

much as these folks would like I still

think the courts will hold around first

amendment. But what it indicates in my

opinion is something more dangerous and

that is we generally decide we have

regulated competition and if we have

regulation it applies to everybody and

that everybody gets to play by the same

rules. And when the president starts

deciding I know how to run a steel

company, which microchip companies we

should invest in and who's saying the

right speech and who isn't, it reflects

I just think I think we're just going to

get and I've said this before, we're

going to get poorer. our earnings rate

at the highest price earning multiple

because of systemic laws where you don't

get on the wrong list and get the wrong

call. I'm not as worried about I mean

it's just so nakedly anti-first

amendment but I think it'll be slapped

down in court.

>> Yeah. But the the the tactics they use

is they create a problem and they get

slapped down in court like they just did

with Jerome Powell with box of you know

prosecutor box of wine. Uh Janine per

whatever box of wine lady watches strong

on her perfect. um you know, they do the

thing, create the damage, cause a

chilling effect, and then move on when

they lose in court, right? Or they get

pushed back, and then they're outraged

about losing in court, and then attack

the courts. I mean, it just goes, it

does cause actual damage to people. And

not just outrage, it's not just, I can't

believe they said that. I totally

believe they said it. I I I don't I

don't find it outrageous. I just find it

astonishing that they they do it in

order to create the kind of crisis that

will occupy people until they're slapped

back. And by the time they're slapped

back, it's too late.

the the tension,

the fear is that it creates a chill and

people think twice before writing an

article about the Trump administration

and are more promiscuous writing

articles truthtelling about Democrats

and Republicans,

>> we start having a chill around speaking

openly around Republicans. My sense is

that if you look at Kimmel, Cole Bear is

that quite frankly it's only emboldened

um uh journalists and institutions

uh to write and also I don't know if the

chill is working and I think it's giving

rise to a new set of media players who

can honestly say we're about truth to

power and we're unafraid and that

there's a market for it.

>> Well well why not just remove the

broadcast networks from those rules? Why

are they I I'm like they shouldn't be

bound by that [ __ ] branding car who's

clearly looking for his next job which

will be dancing with the Nazis. But

anyway,

>> it's wrong. I guess the question is we

always talk about the difference between

being right and being effective.

>> They're wrong and my sense is so far

they've been ineffective. I think the

best thing to happen to Co Bear and

Kimmel the ratings exploded when the FCC

threatened

>> threatened them. So my sense is the

autoimmune response of Americans who

value free speech is kicking in here and

it's working really well

>> perhaps. But at the end of the day, the

Ellison's own will own this and then

we'll have say over it and we'll quietly

do you know smother people possibly. I

don't even know if they will. Honestly,

I don't I don't care to stick around and

find out. But one of the things is that

you create a situation where where you

don't trust your your owners, right? You

don't I mean when I worked at the

Washington Post I mean it was there's it

was a different environment for media

and everything else but I completely

trusted the grams. I got, you know, I

didn't feel like they would toss me over

under a Bezos thing. Abs and I know he

was just there this week talking to some

of the reporters and was answering

questions which he should.

>> Um

I I can't I have no idea what they do

and in fact probably opt to go to Mara

Lago over protecting something he

bought.

>> Look, you you're going to forget more

about journalism than I'm going to know.

So I'm going to defer to you, but what I

see happening is the following. They

make these ridiculous, ownorous,

fascist, autocratic statements trying to

control the press and trying to put a

chill around free speech. I feel like

that attempt to chill free speech is

backfiring. I also don't have any

nostalgia or think that we've talked

about this. I don't think the CNN I

think CNN and the Washington Post can go

away and it's not going to mean

anything. I I just don't I I I think

that these folks quite frankly many of

them I think Freed Sakaria starts a

podcast and a newsletter and has the

same reach with a lower cost of

production. I think these incredible

journalists go to different places start

alternative media that quite frankly is

maybe more effective. So I think that

you're going to see a dispersion of

truth to power and journalism. The key

is as long as the courts at the end of

the day support those people and fall in

the light of first amendment. But I

think what happens a lot of times when

we talk about this is that journalists

and these organizations see themselves

as iconic and very precious. What's

precious is first amendment protection

to speak truth to power. And what I see

is that every person who's laid off from

the Washington Post or CNN who has any

talent now finds incredible platforms

and outlets and subscribers. I just

launched on Substack and it's so much

fun. you see subscribers and you can

make good money. You know, a lot of

people who've left big institutions and

are doing well now.

>> So, I I feel like the attempt to chill

is like when they when they hit CNN, it

breaks into a hundred different

alternative niche media companies.

>> The only issue with that is covering a

war costs money. Covering you have to

have a larger thing. And so one of the

things instead of reforming the costs of

something like a CNN or whoever fill in

the blank NBC, instead of reforming that

that economy, they're doing damage to it

so it can't revive itself in a way

that's cost that that those things cost

like that kind of thing. And so you're

not going to have a a a logger go over

to Iran and do the correct coverage.

Anyway,

>> we'll see what happens. Okay, we need to

take a quick break and when we come

back, we'll get to more of the latest

headlines.

>> Support for the show comes from Odo.

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>> Scott, we're back. Recording live from

South by Southwest.

So, Apple is entering its affordable

era. Affordability counts. The company

just introduced the MacBook Neo, a

laptop priced at $599, roughly half the

price of a MacBook Air and powered by an

iPhone chip. While some analysts are

saying this is a smart way of getting

new market share, others online are

wondering if the budget Apple laptop is

a quote recession indicator. talk about

this about Apple, what's happening uh

over there and where it goes as they

start to figure out uh their next

leadership group which has been in there

since a long forever actually since its

revival back 25 30 years ago. It's the

same executives.

>> So I think the strongest luxury brand in

the world is not Chanel or Vuitton. I

think it's Apple. And essentially

Apple says Apple is the most the perfect

luxury brand is one that says you're

wealthy, you're part of the creative

class, but you're not trying to exhibit

your wealth. When you roll around with a

Birkin bag, you're saying

I'm rich and I want you to know it and I

or I have such an incredible sense and

passion for this type of design. I'm

willing to sacrifice a great deal of

resources for it. The iPhone basically

the the iPhone is become so dominant in

identifying the billion wealthiest

people in the world. They're billion

iPhone iOS contracts

and the other six billion when you pull

out an Android it's like sending a date

a request or a Venmo you're not getting

laid. It's it's sort of

when

when you when you have an Android,

you're essentially saying to the world,

life hasn't really panned out the way

I'd hoped

and I should be starch from the gene

pool. Um,

and the pricing people don't recognize.

I'll go back to my subsack. Most most

substacks are eight bucks a month or,

you know, 12 bucks a month, 100 bucks a

year. We purposely did 20 bucks a month

and 200 bucks a year because pricing is

a signal. And one of the case studies I

love that we talk about in my brand

strategy course. The most successful or

fastest zero to billion alcohol brand in

history was Greygus.

Uh, and I do a taste test in class and

everyone thinks, "Oh yeah, you know, all

these young douchebags, I can tell the

difference." And none of them could tell

the difference between Smeirnoff, Sky,

Absolute, and Greygus. None of them,

like nine out of 10, not even that, can

tell the difference. But the owners of

Greygus said, "All right, the fifth of V

or whatever costs about 35 bucks. Charge

55." Because think about it, when you

walk into a store and you're looking at

anything, you're immediately sort of

want to check out the most expensive

thing. Pricing is a really strong

signal. And I think that Apple's genius

is its self-expressive benefit. The

strongest self-expressive benefits in

the world are the the country you come

from. I'm proud to say I'm from the US.

As much as as head up our ass as we are

right now, I still like telling people

when I'm overseas and I'm American. It

makes me feel good. The second strongest

self-expressive benefit is where you

went to college. If you have two people

in a mating environment and the dude

went to a good school and doesn't have

much else going on, he's like, "Well, at

Cornell." Um, that's the second

strongest self-expressive benefit. The

third strongest self-expressive benefit

is your phone because it's immediately

apparent and the Apple has really

become.

>> So you think this Neo is a mistake?

>> I would always be premium priced if I

were Apple. I'd always be unattainable

for 78 85% of the world's population.

>> Really? What do you think is an

indicator of that?

>> I don't know. They you know more market

share. They see a market for the near

near luxury or they want to expand their

market. And by the way, these are some

of the smartest marketers in the world.

Second most valuable company in the

world. So if it's like the strategy team

at Apple or Scott Galloway, you go with

the strategy team at Apple. But I I

think this is this is a luxury brand. I

mean, keep in mind what Apple's been

able to pull off. Margin is is Latin for

irrational.

When you pay a lot of margin for

something, it's either because you think

it'll make you feel closer to God, it's

a monopoly, or it thinks you make makes

you um more attractive to potential

mates. Margin means irrational. And the

irrational margins that Apple has been

able to garner, I was on the board of

Gateway Computer, remember them? Which I

realize is the weakest flex in the

world,

but our margins were 8%.

If we sold a computer for a,000 bucks,

it cost us 920 to assemble the thing.

Meanwhile, Apple was getting 30 and 40

points of margin because people wanted

to I was I remember when the the seat

belt light goes off, do you grab a Dell

computer that says you work for a

corporation? Do you, you know, grab an

ASUS, which means you work for a bad

corporation, or do you pull out your

Apple and say, "I'm in the creative

community. I'm interesting. I think

different." Right.

>> Right. And so what you have with Apple,

they have pulled off the impossible. The

impossible. And that is they have

>> I want you to say why they're doing it

then.

>> Okay,

>> you're in that meeting. We're going to

sell a $575$95

computer.

>> Just let me finish my last sentence

here. Apple has the margins of Ferrari

with the production volumes of Toyota.

No company has ever pulled that off

before. They think they're going to

expand share and and clear out a bunch

of their competition is why they're

doing this. and and good bad you think

it's a great

>> I think it works in the short run. I

think in the in the long run if Chanel

came out with a $400 bag they would sell

a [ __ ] ton of them and then over time it

erodess their margins and the truly

aspirational people stop start buying

you know more Hermes or what have you.

So, I think it's a I think it's a a

trade-off of market share in the short

run for what is the core asset and that

is a rational margin as the premier

luxury brand in consumer products.

>> And very briefly, how are you feeling

about their stock right now as as they

transition away from Tim Cook?

>> Well, I've been selling down my Apple

stock because I think Tim Cook is a

duplicitive [ __ ] who's benefited

from the American society and is not is

not giving back. Um,

>> okay.

But that's why you did

>> I would stock as you're investing.

>> I would hold on to Apple stock. I I

think Apple is

I think these are incredible companies.

Uh it hurts to sell the stock. I I'm

just trying to walk you trying to walk

the walk and virtue signal. So

>> resist and unsubscribe.

>> You know it.

>> Um anyway, we need to take a quick break

and we come back we'll get to wins and

fails.

>> Support for the show comes from ODO.

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That's odo.com.

Scott, we're back recording live from

South by Southwest. All right, we're

going to do one win and one fail each.

Um I think I am going to start. Um I

think um the win this week uh for me was

um the impression I don't know the guy's

name of Tucker Carlson on SNL last

night. If you watched it, it was [ __ ]

superb. And oddly enough, in some cases,

um, in some of the things he's Tucker

Holson's a terrible person. Let's I'm

not going to agree with him, but I

thought it was a beautiful rendition of

a lot of these sort of noisy

right-wing people who are parodies of

themselves. And I thought it was it just

got to the heart of the problem with

him. Um, that I thought was just

beautiful and it was highly

entertaining. It made me laugh. And by

the way, Harry Styles was terrific. And

I love Harry Styles so much. I don't

know why, but I do. I find him

incredibly appealing. Um the negative

this week was uh Elon Musk saying Grock

didn't quite work as planned at at the

same time and they're and everybody

leaving Grock even though it has these

incredible valuations. Nine of the 11

original founders have left. Um

obviously you have Mecca Hitler, you

have all manner of things that is doing.

You have uh consent uh non-consentual

sexual images, child pornography. It's

not doing great as an AI product. And

again, a low bar. Um, but I thought it

was interesting uh um that he admitted

what a mess it was. Um it still will not

have any effect on the valuation because

any anything Elon does, they will invest

in no matter what. But I thought it was

a moment where he sort of admitted what

a disaster Grock is. And I think you're

going to see more of that going forward.

And at the same time, uh, in continuing

disasters wrought by Elon Musk, the two,

if do yourself a favor and watch the the

testimonies, the the the interviews on

video of two of the Doge B bros, they're

worse than you thought. Like, it's I

couldn't believe they were worse than

you thought. But these were, speaking of

incels, like an incelled mode. I don't

know if they're incelss or not, but they

should be. Women, any women thinking of

dating them should watch these. Um, I

thought they were just sort of this

benality of evil kind of thing where you

just watch these ignorant stupid young

men telling you why they were cutting

and essentially in many cases murdering

people across the globe by do using

chatgbt and search to decide and make

decisions and someone I couldn't believe

this kid asked I mean maybe I could I

don't I kept thinking who raised I want

to find this parent and go have a

discussion with them but one of of the

things they said is why did you cut it?

And he's like, do you think you're

qualified to make the decision on

something that was very complex around

expertise and everything else? And he

said, yeah, I'm qualified. And he goes,

why? And he goes, well, you don't have

to read all the books to know things. I

was like, actually, you need to read all

the books to know things. And if you do

if you do yourself any favor, it was

such a failure of these obviously

probably very good coders in technology

and that had talents in a certain area

being being unleashed upon things that

took a lot more. And I don't think you

can't cut government programs. I'm not

one of those people. But the fact that

they made these decisions in such a

haphazard, ridiculous, stupid way is

something it's it's a real sight to see.

And one of the things many years ago I

found a column I did um that I wrote

about the need for ethics history and

philosophy courses uh with technology

people and vice versa by the way uh

liberal studies people should understand

AI and everything else and one of the

things that I thought I one of the

better things I think I did as a as a

parent and and Megan my ex-wife is here

too is our son Alex for example is a

techn is in technology but he takes

design he's really interested in history

He's he's got like a wider range of

interests around politics and everything

else. And I I don't that's not our

fault, but I think we encouraged him to

have a wider range of Louie could learn

more about AI. Our older son could

probably learn more about AI than he

does, but um but it was it was really a

moment where I thought, what are we

making? What kind of children are we

making here that they think this is

right? And so I thought it was a real

it's an eyeopener to watch these

testimonies and they sit there with

these very fresh young faces and it was

so disturbing to me on every level. So I

encourage you to watch it and be

disturbed yourself. Go ahead. Win and

fail.

>> I like that. Um my fail is it the Save

Act? The one that's trying to It looks

like it's going to be dead on arrival,

but the act would force people to show

up with either a passport or a birth

stick of it. Only 50% of Americans have

a passport. They cost $160 to get. A lot

of people have to change their birth

certificate because they get married or

they hyphenate their name. This is just

such a naked attempt to suppress voter

turnout. It's just it's it's difficult.

And I do it does feel like it's dead on

arrival, but it's difficult to imagine

anything more anti-American.

>> Yeah.

>> They're doing everything to pass it.

>> Yeah. I'm hoping

>> getting your senator John Cornin who is

just literally the wor the worst. I

mean, Ken Paxton's already sort of

criminalishious or criminal adjacent,

but this guy used to have values and now

his anything to be in office. Uh and to

to the other side, my win is we uh

interviewed uh rep state representative

James Talerico yesterday and he had

he had the most moving um description of

and he wasn't framing it this way of

masculinity. And he said that his father

every weekend would mow his lawn and

then without asking, without talking

about it, would go next door and mow

their lawn.

And he said that was masculinity. I

thought that was just so perfect. You

know, I struggle with trying to identify

it through a series of adjectives and it

just it just without asking mowing your

neighbor's lawn. I just love that.

That's my

>> You mow my lawn? I have several lawns.

>> I'm not going to go there. I

I'm

>> I I I I

>> I did walk.

>> Is this too easy and too wrong? I'm just

just season 2 Swedish US women's hockey

team.

>> All right. Uh he's I got to meet him.

He's the baby Jesus is very attractive.

>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. I really

>> I was planning to ask all these zingers

like, "Dude, we follow the same people

on Instagram."

Um you'll get it. He's supposedly

supposedly follows all these hot women

on Instagram.

>> I wanted to ask him if he dates and I

just couldn't do anything that he's so

>> earnest.

>> That's right.

>> He's so real and so earnest and you're

just looking to I'm like literally like

take my money.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Anyway, it's a real It's going to be an

interesting race.

Anyway, um, okay, we need to take a

quick break and we come back, we'll take

some questions from the audience. Scott,

we're back recording live from South by

Southwest.

All right, we're ready to take some

questions from the audience. We only

have time for just a few, so keep them

short that we can answer quickly and and

easy for Scott, please.

>> Hey guys, Melissa Richards Person and

I'm from Louisville, Kentucky. Um,

>> wow. My dad is turning 10 in three

months. And the reason I offer that,

thank you. Is that he was a civil

engineer and he was engineering things

built to last.

>> Got it.

>> And I think about us, have we as a have

we lost the ability to think long term

as opposed to short term?

>> That's a great question. That's a great

question, Scott.

Um well technically we're focused on

shareholder value and the markets

reverse engineer earnings way out in the

future. So technically these big capex

investments that are driving the economy

you would argue are actually long-term

investments. So I think the financial

markets would say no we are actually

still the second largest manufacturer in

the world. Um, I think people have a

fondness and a nostalgia for quote

unquote building stuff, but the reality

is 80% of Americans think we should have

more manufacturing, but only 20% of

Americans want to work in manufacturing.

You can't bring your dog to the factory

floor. So I I would argue that Americans

still do have more risk capital to

invest long term, but quite frankly,

just like we were talking about CNN,

Washington Post, we have this

romanticism for manufacturing, but very

few young people other than Kerous when

you ask them what they want to do say, I

want to I want to go into manufacturing.

Um, so I still think we're thinking long

term and make make great things. I think

our products are still some of the best

in the world. I do think we go through

cycles of that and I think we're

probably headed into a more long I think

especially if you if anyone who's a

young person they're moving away from a

lot of this quick fast I've noticed just

a little more community and doing this

series there's a lot more of a need and

a desperation for community connection

long-termness I picked it up and that's

just anecdotal

>> hey Cara and Scott thanks for taking

questions Eve Grant um Scott you talked

about the attempt to chill free speech

is backfiring I'll tend and alternative

media will fill the gap as long as

courts protect them. I like your

optimism. What about the Go Gawker media

lawsuit that demonstrated the courts

didn't protect them and money wins?

>> It's a it's a fair point. I'll I'll turn

to my journalist.

>> I think you're right. I I am much more

concerned. I think they can chill

people. Uh I I worry myself. I like you

think about it. You know, I don't do it.

I of course immediately run right into

the breach. But I do think it does

create a situation when I always like to

see the enemy, right? Like back in the

day when everyone's like, "How dare

these anti-gay people?" I'm like, "I can

see them. It's the ones I can't see I'm

worried about." And so I like to I see

what their move is. And so now it's an

easier person to fight when you see who

they are and what they're up to. And

what they're up to is very typical of

autotocracies is try to slowly bring it

down. I do think there's a lashback

because we do have so many tools

available to us and power has shifted

from uh the typical broadcast networks

to people like us to others and so it

does tend to um

unintended consequences of being such

incredible morons is is is what's going

to happen and again I think Brennan Carr

is an embarrassment and will end it will

end badly for him eventually just maybe

just because you don't know the And just

because you don't know the end of the

story doesn't mean that's how it's going

to end. That's how I look at things. All

right. Uh that's all the time we have

for today. We really appreciate South by

Southwest and we do appreciate all our

fans. Thanks for listening to Pivot and

be sure to like and subscribe to our

YouTube channel because we have a face

for radio. Uh we'll be back later this

week. Thank you so much. South by

Southwest.

Thanks again to ODU for supporting this

show. ODU wants to be your ultimate

all-in-one fully integrated platform to

handle everything. Seriously,

everything. Inventory, CRM, accounting,

HR, and much more. No more shopping

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