Don't bring your authentic self to work.

I want your professional self. You can

bring your authentic self to

Thanksgiving meal with your family if

you'd like to. Your authentic self is

about who? Me, me, me, me, me.

Everything is what's happening to me.

What's in it for me? Do you know that

you impact other people? You affect

other people's lives. You make the work

environment easier or more taxing.

>> Can someone learn to be a better

self-regulator of their emotions?

>> Yeah. So, I've been around former SEALs,

US Secret Service presidents, and I

learned a lot about communication,

reading people, confidence, and I'll

share these things. So, first of all,

Ebie Porus is the former US Secret

Service agent.

>> From guarding presidents to reading

liars, she now reveals the strategies

she used to make anyone respect you,

trust you, and give you what you want.

>> I've been around very confident people,

and they had a really good circle around

them in her circle. Because if you're

exposing yourself to people and

environments that are not good for you,

that will actually impact your life

negatively. You know, I always say be

careful who you try to save. Some people

will drown you. And then the other thing

I would see presidents do is they were

very good at delegating. So they didn't

need to know everything because

confident people are okay with not

knowing all the information. So your

brain is like a bathtub. The bathtub can

only hold so much water. If you keep

warding water in the bathtub, it's going

to overflow. That's your cognitive load.

My bathtub only holds the water it needs

to hold in. And another thing that the

Secret Service has taught us is that

that's really important to use your

hands because when people don't see

hands, it's a sign of untrustworthiness.

Like you can't trust them. So when you

see hands, open hands, I'm no threat.

And then there's communication skills,

manipulation, tactics, and a strategy to

make good decisions. And I will go

through them, but the two most important

things are

to my regular listeners. I know you

don't like it when I ask you to

subscribe at the start of these

conversations. I don't like saying I

don't like it being in there. None of us

like it. It's frustrating. Do you know

what's also frustrating? It's also

frustrating when I go into the back end

of the YouTube channel and I see that

56% of you that listen frequently to

this podcast haven't yet subscribed. And

so many of you don't even know that you

haven't subscribed because I see in the

comment section you say to me, you go,

"I didn't even realize I didn't

subscribe." And that actually fuels the

show. It's basically like you're making

a donation to the show. So that's why I

ask all the time because it enables us

to build and build and build and build

and we're going for the long term here.

So all I'd ask you is if you've seen

this show before and you like it, help

me, help my team here. Hit the subscribe

button and we'll continue to build this

show for you. That's my promise. Thank

you to all of you guys that do

subscribe. Means the world to me. Let's

get on with the show.

What is the overarching theme of why

people you think are drawn to your your

particular message and what part of that

message are they drawn to?

>> I get bombarded on all social media

platforms and in email and it's always

like Evie, I have this problem. Please

help me. And it can range from

I have a problem communicating to I'm in

an abusive relationship to my brother

was murdered and they're saying it's a

suicide. It's not. So I get everything.

And I think what I'm seeing is

there are a lot of people that are not

doing well.

It seems to me that people are tired of

being told that they have no control

over the outcome of their lives and no

control over the relationships. Cuz when

you tell people it's not your fault this

happened to you and it's okay that

you're this way, which it is, I think

people don't want to stay there anymore.

And so

people look to I don't have to I don't

have to be weak all the time or I don't

have to feel weak. You can have a weak

moment. It's not the same thing with

feeling fundamentally weak or insecure

or insignificant all the time and then

looking at a moment or a situation or

moments in your life and saying, "I'm

this way now because of all these things

that happened." And I think for a while

that worked. I think for a while people

were buying it because it's like it's

not your fault like you're like this.

Now this happened to you here. It's not

your fault that you don't trust people.

this happened to you here? And so

because that theme's been going on for

so long, what it does is it renders you

powerless because it's saying you're

this way because of all this other stuff

and it's not your fault. And that

translates to I have no power over it.

I'm

I'm a result of what's happened to me.

And that's a powerless state to be,

which all it does is keep suppressing

you down. So you just stay there instead

of saying you know it happened to you

okay now to where do we go from here and

it's wild because I did consultations

and mentor sessions for a window of time

and I would only do either one or three

I wouldn't do more than that because

what the most important thing I didn't

want people to rely on me it's like I'll

come in and I'll give you some

guideposts and but my goal is not to

make you reliant on me to keep coming

back to me. Three was the max I would do

with someone. No more than that.

>> Three sessions.

>> Three sessions. Three sessions. Because

my goal is if I keep you coming back to

me, then I'm not helping you. All I'm

doing is reorienting you to come to me.

I'm going to fix it for you. My goal was

always no, you have the ability. I might

need to kind of shift things around or

shake things up a little bit in your

mindset, but in the end, you are very

well capable. And most people are. They

just don't learn. They just don't know

how to trust themselves. You talked

about how using the past to diagnose

your current self by saying this

happened to me so I'm this way is almost

it's like a short-term friend in the

moment because it kind of helps you feel

heard and understood and it justifies

the way that you are but it ends up

being a long-term enemy in the context

that you're then stuck with the results

of who you are for better or for worse.

And I was thinking about myself. I was

thinking all the ways that I've like

justified who I am today using something

that happened in the past. And actually

whenever I do that it makes that

behavior even if it's the byproduct of

it is making me unhappy really hard to

change. Like it's very hard to change.

Like if I say this happened when I was a

kid and my my dad was unorganized or

whatever and messy so I'm a messy

person.

It's almost like etching it into cement

or something. It it you know.

>> Can I ask you a question? Why does it

matter?

>> I don't I don't understand why we have

to psychoanalyze everything we do. I

feel we waste so much time in trying to

figure out I'm like this today because

of this this and this. Sometimes I have

found there's no clear reason why.

There's no there's nothing to to to make

sense of. Even sometimes when people try

to assess like why does this person

treat me this way? Why that? What did I

do? Why this? Sometimes there are

reasons and sometimes that person's just

an [ __ ]

There's nothing analyzed. There's

nothing to figure out. there's nothing

that I dive deep on. That person, you

just happen to fall on an [ __ ] And

that's okay. Let's move on. So, there's

moments where that exists, too. But I

feel like we try so hard to figure it

out that we do more damage. And you

know, like I

Your brain is like a bathtub. Your

cognitive load is like a bathtub. Think

of this as a bathtub. If you have a

bathtub, the bathtub can only hold so

much water. If you keep putting water in

the bathtub, right, it's going to

overflow. That's your cognitive load.

So, if I have my cognitive load, my

bathtub, and I keep putting water,

water, water, it's going to overflow.

It's the same thing when you put stuff

in there. I'm going to add more stuff

and more stuff and more stuff. Your

cognitive load is overflowing. It's

maxed. You're inefficient. You're

sloppy. You're not getting things done

right. If you are, you're just barely

getting there. You're everywhere. You're

stressed out. You're fra frazzled

because you're maxed out. You're beyond

maxed out. So everything I do, and I

will tell you, I learned this from

watching presidents. I keep my load

light. My bathtub only holds the water

it needs to hold in. So it protects you

from overextending yourself, stressing

yourself, and it also keeps you from

making bad decisions. You make good

decisions. There's something called

decision fatigue where the more stuff I

add, we think the busier I am, the

better I am. I'm I'm moving. I'm

hustling. I'm doing all this stuff. Look

how maxed out I am. Just because you're

busy, it doesn't mean you're being

productive. Those two things are not

synonymous. So often people think

leaders keep adding adding. No. You know

what good leaders do? And this is what

again I I've learned. They take out of

that bathtub. They take out. What can I

do less of so I can be exceptional at

the other things I do? Really great

example. This is public knowledge so I

can share it. President Barack Obama, he

had 30 of the same suits.

Why?

Why do you think? 30 of the same exact

suits.

>> So he didn't have to make so many

decisions every day.

>> Yeah. He didn't want to sit and figure

out what he's going to wear.

It's a decision he didn't have to make.

That keeps his bathtub light. Think

about all the decisions he had to make

every single day. I want a light

bathtub. Boop. Take that thing out.

Lighten your bathtub. So when you're

overthinking and overanalyzing and

trying to process all this stuff, you

are maxing out that bathtub. So how can

you perform? You don't have infinite

resources. You do not have an infinite

cognitive load and you do not have an

infinite emotional load. Don't keep

adding. Your job is to take out so that

the things you do do, you do

exceptionally well and you're much more

emotionally stable. I think maybe one of

the reasons why people are tempted to go

back is they think that if they go back

into their history and understand

things, then they can change something

in the present that's going to change

their future. So they think, you know,

if I can figure out why I I'm low

confidence, what happened to me, then I

can do something today which is going to

change tomorrow.

>> So I guess I would say and again I would

see this from I've done hundreds of

mentor sessions. I would tell them where

are you right now? What do you do now

and what do you want to change now?

>> So, I'm low confidence. I move through

the world as if I'm trying to not take

up too much space. I feel like people

are rude to me and I I just have bad

luck. I have bad luck with men. I'm I'm

pretending I'm a woman. I have bad luck

with men. Um and I just feel like people

don't respect me enough. And also, I

just feel like I don't get the credit I

deserve. I see everyone around me, Evie,

getting more credit for doing less work.

>> Okay, so this is great. So, this is

probably a person that you cannot help

number one cuz cuz everything's bad.

Everything is bad. And you'll get those

from time to time. You get those.

Everything's a problem. And if

everything's a problem right now, if you

get that persona, which it does exist.

It's it's you get them. That person

doesn't want a solution.

>> Really?

>> Nope.

>> What do they want? They want me to

validate how they feel. That's what they

want. They don't want a solution. If

everything's the problem, think of it

this way. If every bar I go to I go to I

get into fight into a fight, it's not

it's not the it's not the bar. So when

someone's like, I have this problem,

this problem, this problem, this

problem, this problem, they're they're

so set in who and how they are, they

they want to stay there. Often people do

want an audience. Often people do want

to be told, "I'm so sorry. I'm so I feel

so bad that happened to you." Sometimes

too when bad things happen to us, we get

a lot of attention as a result. Let's

say something really horrific happens.

And I've seen it with somebody maybe who

had a a severe illness or lost a loved

one. When you're dealing with something

like that, what happens, right?

Immediately people come to you. I'm

sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. They're

there to support you. You get this

bombardment of attention. You feel good,

but then eventually people move on with

their lives. And then you get addicted

to where did all that attention go? I

want some of it. So what do I do? I look

for something else to be a problem so I

can get more empathy, more sympathy,

more attention. And so there are people

that get stuck in that cycle. Good

people, I I know good people who get

stuck in that cycle, but I'm also aware

of them because every time I speak to

them, something's not right. I can't

help them. I don't even bother trying to

help them. One, they don't really ask

me. And so I'm very aware. I don't give

unsolicited advice. It It's wrong. It's

not my place. And if they want it,

they'll ask. And then even then, I'm

always very aware, is this even going to

land on this person? Because I'm coming

back to me. My bathtub's full. So, I

can't really invest all that energy in

you if it's I don't mean it to be cold,

but if it's a a waste of time.

>> There's two personas that I'm thinking

about. One of them is personal to me,

and then one of them's personal to one

of my friends. And before we started,

you said one of the things you like is

very specific examples. So, here's a

specific example. There's someone I know

very well, extremely well. I've known

them pretty much my whole life. And when

they came to the UK, they experienced a

lot of racial abuse because they came to

the UK in like 1994. They lived in an

area that was all white. And the abuse

they experienced was very, very real.

The UK, the part of the UK they lived in

became more diverse um over the years.

They've been there for 20, 30 years. And

now the race racial abuse has pretty

much gone away. But you wouldn't you

wouldn't think it because when if you

met this person who did go through this

abuse, so much of their identity became

formed around that abuse. So even though

they now live in an area where there's

no abuse, they still find

a perpetrator. They find perpetrators

everywhere. And actually I I've come to

believe with this particular person who

I know very well that that identity

depends upon it. And that's kind of what

I was hearing in what you're saying is

there's I don't think this person could

survive if they didn't have a

perpetrator anymore. And so much so that

they've started finding perpetrators in

their own family. And their whole family

has now almost cut this person off

because you know their identity is being

a survivor and like a hero heroic

survivor. And now that the enemy has

gone, so much depends on that identity

that, you know, this person's at war at

home and they don't speak to their kids,

their grandkids, and they've lost all of

their family because they've now

convinced that the stepmother is racist

and the other step, you know, the other

um daughter-in-law is racist and this

person said this thing which is racist

or or is abusive towards me. And you see

this in a lot of people that you know

maybe they did go through something but

now they need that thing to hold their

identity in place.

>> So you reminded me of a story which I'll

tell you but here's the thing. If you're

looking for a problem you will always

find one.

>> You will always find a problem. And

that's the thing. So it's the mindset.

>> What do I do about that person if I'm a

bystander?

>> Nothing.

>> Really?

>> Nothing.

>> I don't try and help them change them.

>> No. Because did he did he or she ask

you?

>> No. don't do it.

>> Why?

>> Because they're not they don't want it.

And you might end up upsetting them

anyway. They might get even angrier from

um from it because they're in a space

where they're so emotional and self

focused and they want to live there. Do

you know too when you sit and you

ruminate like you you it activates parts

of the brain that make you feel alive.

Think of it this way. You get like you

get hits. You know how you get dopamine

hits? I feel good from certain things.

Well, you get a hit when you even when

you're angry or upset. Do you ever get

so upset or angry and you get worked up?

What do you adrenaline hit your your

cortisol is going up. What do you do? I

feel alive. I'm here. I'm there.

That feels good, too.

>> It's it's a different type of feel, but

I feel present. I feel this. I feel like

I feel something.

So, unless somebody comes to you, and

I've learned this lesson, and says,

"Stephen, I want your advice." I

wouldn't give it. One, you're going to

be exhausted. you're doing so many

things, you don't have that ability.

Two, the person's not they're not there

to hear it. So, you also have to have

someone who wants your your guidance or

advice. So, even when I did mentor

sessions or consultations, it probably

like several times where I knew I was

like, this is a waste of my time. I'm

like, you know what? I'm going to give

you a full refund. I'm not for you.

Because I understood. I'm like, this

person isn't they're not registering.

There's You did remind me of a story. I

remember once I was doing a news story

um and I went and I interviewed somebody

who was part of the cleanup efforts for

9/11 right September 11th cleanup e

efforts and uh he was doing all this

stuff to you know present day to help

victims of 9/11 today so I go with my

camera person or the producer I can't

remember we go to set up to interview

this person so I have my own I've had my

own experience with 911 I worked in the

World Trade Center That's where New York

field office was. I was there on that

day. I lost colleagues and friends, but

this person knows nothing about this.

So, I show up and I'm getting them ready

and uh we're talking and there's this

big uh tower tattoo, the towers, 9/11

tattoo. As I'm mikeing up the person,

the towers, there was a room in the h

home that had all this 9/11 uh

memorabilia, like a whole room. And I

remember being there thinking, okay,

this person must have had some really

serious trauma exposure. And I'm not

trying to minimize. So I spoke to them,

this person,

and he had some kind of injury as well.

And I said, "Oh, tell me about it."

Well, I was there and um I was injured

when I was welding. Something kind of

fell on my foot and as a result, I had

to go on some kind of disability. And I

said, "What happened to your foot?" And

it was uh I think he had lost like his

toe or something, his pinky. And I said,

"Okay." And I said, "How long were you

there?" "3 days." I said, "Were you

there for the day of the event?" "No."

"So you weren't there for the day of the

event." So your exposure to 9/11 was 3

days and then you got injured. Yes.

Okay. So I'm clocking this internally to

myself. His whole life was centered

about around the drama, the the the

trauma, the the overcoming 9/11.

Everything was 911, 911, 911. And it was

such an identity space. He was so it was

all like such a horrible thing for him.

And I'm thinking, it wasn't to minimize,

but I'm thinking,

how did you build your whole livelihood

present day around that small event? But

that was his identity. I I remember

thinking I'm like I did the interview

and I had to go. I was like I can't be

around this

because he was just so selffocused on

how bad that experience was that

everything he did and who he was to the

point where you have tattoos on your

body of the World Trade Center. And I'm

thinking how is this helping you move

forward?

>> There's this concept in psychology

called um secondary gain that I was I

was writing a book about. I'm writing

this book at the moment. I was I wrote a

chapter about secondary gain and it

basically says exactly what you're

describing which is there's always a

secondary gain from pain. Typically

there's like something you benefit from

it and the problem is people can get

addicted to that and sometimes it's like

safety or comfort that you get from it.

Sometimes it's identity and sometimes

it's remuneration you know might be

money or other rewards. The other

example that I was going to say in terms

of personas that I'm aware of is the kid

who is in his bedroom and can't leave

his bedroom because he says, you know,

there's something wrong with him. He

might be clinically obese or have some

kind of other issue. And his family

around him are his support network. And

I I actually know someone in this

situation where they just don't leave

their bedroom. And the mother, I think

she's also getting her identity from

being the mother with that child who

she's propping up. And it was it was

interesting that in this particular case

with one of my best friends who lives in

the Middle East, when she stopped

doing that, when she actually heard

something on this podcast and stopped

propping this person up,

>> enabling

>> enabling them, this person got better,

very very quickly got better because she

basically said, "I'm not going to I

can't help anymore. and also don't talk

to me about this. I don't have the as

you say like the cognitive energy

anymore. This person got better and it

made me realize that you know sometimes

two people can keep one person trapped.

>> They can

>> I'm the mother. I'm the savior that is

protecting my child who is unwell and

the child is being the cared for um and

both of them are getting love and

attention and affection from that sort

of abusive unhealthy relationship.

A lot of people find themselves there.

We think about sometimes the attention

you get. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that

happened to you. That's so sad. That can

become addicting because you're

constantly looking for it. But again, I

I've come to accept people as they are.

I also look at it, who am I to tell you

to be different. If this is where you

like to live and how you like to live,

live it. I think where it becomes a

problem for folks is when it bleeds into

your own life. So like with the mom

where she had that moment where she's

like, I don't want to do this anymore

because it's impacting my life. then I

can understand that cuz she's like I

don't want to participate in this. But I

just have found like I want you to think

of it this way like it's like think of a

an iceberg. Think of an iceberg. You see

the top of the iceberg, the little blip

at the top of the the water and then the

the the big part underneath which is the

vast majority of what makes an iceberg.

We're like that. When you see another

human being, I want you to think of they

got this huge bottom portion of this

iceberg that you don't see. And it's who

makes them what they are. So one the

things that make you who you are today

are all the things that have accumulated

over the entire time span of your life.

Family is a huge one. Did you have

family? Were they good family? Did you

have one parent, both parents? Did you

have any parents? Right? Friends, who

were your friends growing up? Who are

your friends now?

Your experiences, your dramas, your

traumas, all those things make it who

you are. Your values, your belief

systems, your personality. Do you know

that personality in a human being forms

in infancy? So all these things make you

up. Even your age, who you are today is

probably v vastly different, Stephen,

than who you were 5 years ago versus 10

years ago versus 15 years ago. That's

somebody's iceberg. So when you take all

of that, you have that iceberg, do you

think you're going to roll in and within

what a couple hours or a couple

conversations, you're going to get them

to what? Shift. That's what you're up

against. So often people become very

upset because they can't change other

people and that's where I'm like accept

what you had. I give a keynote literally

this week and a woman came to me in

tears at the end. This was at a business

conference. So this was for business for

communication and a very different thing

but she she came up to me afterward.

She said I really want a guidance from

you. I said sure. What is it? Are you

okay? She said, 'I have a husband and

he's very overweight and I've done

everything I can uh to try to get him to

change and I want to try to use these

influence strategies on him to change

him that you talked about. Could you

help guide me? I said, how long have you

been dealing with this? She's like, a

long time, years. I said, does he want

to change? No. She's like, but I try and

I don't want to give up. I said, did you

see that part where I t the part where I

talked about the iceberg? Remember I

showed you the iceberg and I said,

accept people as they are? I said, "He's

the iceberg." I said, "It's not him

that's the issue now. It's you. You're

not accepting what you have in front of

you. That's what he is. Unless you

accept, you can't adapt." So, what

you're doing is you're not living in

truth. You're living in what I hope he

would be, what he has a potential to be,

but not where he actually is now. When

you accept where he is now, this is who

he is. This is who he wants to be. The

next question is, can you adapt to that?

Meaning, are you okay with that?

adapting to his lifestyle and staying

with him. That's the thing. What she's

trying to do is change him, make him fit

so that she can have what she wants.

Wrong. She's trying to solve the wrong

problem. He's not changing. This is it.

This is what you've got. The question

now is, I accept my problem. I live in

truth. This is how my husband wants to

be. Can I adapt my lifestyle so that I

can still stay with him, or is that a

big of a deal breaker where I have to

pull away? She was asking the wrong

question

>> because she's scared of the potential

answer or

>> because she's not seeing the truth in

her problem. Meaning this is who he is

fundamentally. You've been trying for

years to change him and you're trying to

make your life better to the point where

you're emotionally upset. Like she was

so upset about it. And I said, "But

you're trying to solve something that

you can't solve. This is a whole other

person. This iceberg, this bottom part,

he's not he doesn't want it. He's fixed.

What's happening is PE, this is called

adaptability. We want to adapt to our

problems. She's not adapting to her

problem. She's not accepting what her

problem is. The problem is this is my

husband. This is who he is and this is

who he wants to be.

>> But I might be worried that he's going

to die or something. If he

>> he very well will.

>> And you know, if you see someone that's

about to die, one should intervene. No.

>> But can you intervene? And does he want

you to intervene? He doesn't want her to

intervene. And so what matters to you

most? Do you want to keep doing this all

day long because that's what she's doing

to the point where she's crying when I'm

coming off stage? Or do you accept this

is him? This is him. I love him. I can't

change him. I accept him as he is now.

Am I willing to adapt to the truth of

what my relationship is and stay married

and be okay or not? She's the one who

needed to adapt, but she couldn't adapt

because she wasn't living in truth. It's

like, look at it this way. Your

partner's cheating on you and you don't

want to know. You don't want to hear it,

right? And but you're unhappy you're

having all these issues. Part of the

reason you're having these issues is

because you can't accept the truth. The

majority of people struggle. 99.9% of

people are not adaptable because they

don't live in truth. What's the true

problem you have? Accept it. Then

decide, okay, now where do I go from

here? But people don't accept the truth.

It's how I wish it could be, how I would

like it to be, how it was, how it could

be. No, what am I dealing with right

now? Doesn't mean you have to like it.

And this is not agreement. She doesn't

have to agree with his lifestyle, but

it's accepting this is who he is now. My

choice is do I stay or do I go? How how

much of a pain is this for you?

So, you think you should never try and

change someone?

>> I think it's wrong

to do that to people, especially if

they're showing you repeatedly, I don't

want you to do this. Leave me alone.

And you also too, Stephen, whether you

agree with people's lifestyle choices or

not, it is their life. It is not yours.

And so I think that there's also

something a bit arrogant when we think

we're going to roll in and let me tell

you how I should live. My values and

your values could be vastly different

to who am I to impose how I think you

should be? Who says I'm right?

Who said who says I'm right? I say I'm

right based on my own value system. But

people are vastly different. How people

see things and what they think is right

or wrong, it's not the same. So, I I

accept people as they are and I respect

them. I may not want to hang out with

them because it's just not the circle of

people I want to be. But I also it how

narcissistic of is it of me to think I'm

going to roll in and change you. It's

kind of like I did interviews,

interrogations on terrorists.

And when I walked into an interview or

interrogation, I did was not delusional

to think that I'm going to walk in and

I'm going to tell this person, hey, I'm

I'm part of the good guys. I I I just

want, you know, to protect people and

America, you know, we're really just

trying to do the right thing. This is a

person his iceberg that was set for

years. He's thought a certain way. He's

he developed who he was 30, 40 years

old, whatever it is. this is who he is

and I'm going to roll in what and get

you to change your whole mindset. I knew

who I had. I accepted who I had. I

didn't try to change the narrative. Oh

no, I'm this. Oh no, I'm that. I didn't

do any of that. But my goal was what am

I trying to get to? I was like, well, I

need information on the next attack. I

need to know where the next weapons are

coming in. I need to thwart this. So, I

need to get him talking. And that's what

I'm looking for. I'm not trying to

change his value system. I'd be there

all day and all night, weeks. It would

never work. That's what we do. We try to

fundamentally change who people are.

I have people I care about very much and

love and I have tried too. There are

times where you love somebody so deeply

and you're like, "Please, especially if

it's something that harms them, but I've

also learned they don't want it." And

the ironic is sometimes the more you

try, the angrier they become with you.

Who are you? Right? You're imposing

yourself and your beliefs on somebody

else. And they're right. Who am I? Just

because I think life should be lived

this way, it does not mean that they

believe life should be lived this way.

They're probably thinking, "What's wrong

with this? Nothing's wrong with this."

>> It's interesting when I was going

through our previous conversations,

Evie, and I was looking at the moments

that people replayed the most or enjoyed

the most or cut the most or sent to

their friends the most, the overarching

thing I learned is that there's a lot of

people out there who don't feel very

strong. They feel they don't feel seen.

They don't feel respected.

They themselves, I think, feel like

they're low confidence and they look

into a world full of other people who

seem to be more confident and have

everything figured out and they can't

relate and they feel at some level some

of them um a little bit unappreciated.

But I think the bigger point here is

about confidence and strength and

feeling like yeah, feeling feeling like

I can I can get what I want from life.

>> Okay, we're going to break this down,

but I want to ask you a question if it's

okay.

>> Yeah. How do you build your confidence

or what's something you do that builds

your confidence?

>> Oh, that's a great question. Um,

do you know what's really interesting?

When I was 20 years old, I think I

thought I was confident, but I don't

think I was. And I only kind of figured

this out in hindsight because this is I

don't think I've said this before, but

between the age of 18 and 20, every girl

that I was interested in and would get

some way down the line with would

eventually reject me. And then from

about I know people go, "Yeah, because

you made a million dollars." No, listen,

it wasn't that. Even when I had the

money, I was still having I was still

being rejected by women. And then at

some point around like 25

to 30,

everything changed. And so I always say

to my friends, I said to one of my

friends the other day, I was like, I

don't know why. I don't know the science

of this, but what I do know is that it's

very, very hard to fake confidence

because I think it lives in a thousand

micro expressions. I was doing

everything the book said, and I still

wasn't getting the results in terms of a

romantic context. It was like these

women could just like figure out at some

deeper level that I wasn't it. And I

never knew what I was doing because I

guess I can't see myself. Maybe I was

texting back too fast. That's kind of

what you think. Maybe the way I was

standing. But it it taught me over time

that actually you should aim at real

confidence. And the real confidence came

when the story in my head about myself

was that I was of high value. And I'll

share a story. So the reason I said this

to my friend literally two weeks ago was

because he was dating someone and she

turned around to him. She's a very young

girl. He's 35. She was 25.

She turned around and said, "Do you know

what? I don't think I want to have

kids." They'd known each other four

months. And his response to that was

like really, really insecure. It was

like, "I really want to have kids. I

want to have kids." And she ended up

dumping him a week later. And I remember

I I said to him, you know, my current

girlfriend said the same to me when I

was 30. She turned around to me and

said, "I'm not sure if I want to have

kids." And in my head, the first thought

that came in was, if I'm being

completely honest, was

I'm not sure I want to have kids with

you yet either. You're still on trial.

like I'm still dating you to figure out

if you're the right person. So my

response even though I didn't say

anything out loud because I just kind of

shoulder rolled it was

because I valued myself.

My immediate response wasn't to be

insecure. It was to think doesn't

matter. I'm still trying to figure out

if I want to have kids with you. And I

didn't say anything. I just carried on

with the, you know, carried on with my

day. And it made me think that like,

yeah, it's a thousand tiny things.

Confidence is a thousand tiny things,

but it exists. So like comes out of this

central source of who you think you are.

And I think the to answer your question,

the reason why thing that gave me

confidence in my life was I did some

things that convinced myself that I was

someone worth respecting.

>> I'm going to get to the confidence thing

in a moment. I'm actually curious cuz

you said something and I'm wondering, do

you think

these women like your girlfriend and his

the girl he was dating, do you think

they genuinely meant it when they said

it?

>> No. My girlfriend's literally told me

I've been with her for seven years now

and we're we're planning on having kids

right now. She was test. She didn't know

she was. Yes. This is what I said to him

on the [ __ ] plane. We were flying on

a plane. She didn't know she was.

>> It was a test.

>> She didn't know she was testing me

though. And when people hear it was a

test, people will think it was a

conscious thing that she'd written down

and she planned it. No, she had been

through a bunch of stuff with a bunch of

guys who had taken away her freedom. And

so she was her subconscious was testing

whether I was one of those guys that was

also going to try and restrict her or

control her. But throughout our whole

relationship, I was aware of this. So

when she those moments where she said,

"You know what? I think I might want to

fly back to Bali." I said, "Babe, at any

time when you feel like you want to go

back to Bali, you go and I'll help you.

I'll help you go back to Bali. You don't

have to be in London. You go wherever

makes you happy." I'd say it to all the

time. I'd say, "You go wherever makes

you happy." And you know what? I would

mean it because why would I want to be

with someone that wasn't happy? And this

is ultimately what meant that she felt

safe, secure, free, and then it flipped.

But that would never have happened if I

was like my friend who literally feels

like

he's up against a clock to find a woman

and he needs to find one ASAP cuz he's

he's actually 30 3 he's nearly 40 now

and he's single. He's like, "Steve, you

don't understand. I don't have the

time." So he's trying to rush people

down the aisle.

>> Yeah. But so it's it's it's always when

you said that and his circumstance, but

you always wonder why would and some

people truly don't want to have kids and

there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah.

>> But I have found because I've seen it

too. When somebody says it, why are you

saying it?

>> And do you genuinely mean it or are you

saying it to see the other person's

reaction? Are you saying it because you

want to feel better? Because I know some

people who maybe did want or do want to

have kids and they can't or they can't

find a good partner. And so a way that

they make peace with it too is they say

that and everybody makes peace with

things uh things their own way or some

have had past relationships where the

other pe you know their potential

partners were turned off by especially

there's like this thing and I don't know

if it exists now but where some guys may

be turned off because they think women

want a guy who just wants to have kids

so I don't want to put off that vibe so

I'm going to say this to you so you

don't think

>> that I'm I'm that way. So that's why I

always wonder when people say it,

what are they really saying?

>> So in her case, her sisters have never

been able to leave their hometown, her

six sisters, because all of them had

kids super young. And he actually told

me this a couple of months earlier that

she's a little bit unsure about the kids

thing because she thinks it would hurt

her freedom. So 6 months into their

relationship when she comes out with a

statement like that, honestly, what I

said to him, I was like, "Bro, like

you're 6 months in.

>> Just let it ride. Just bloody hell. Just

carry on. like whatever you were doing

in that moment, just carry on doing it

and say that's interesting. Keep it

moving cuz you know, but but going back

to the point because there's this

internal insecurity in him, as much as

you could coach someone like that or

they could read the books, etc., they're

going to be tested in a thousand ways.

>> So, he's fear-based.

So, he's his decisions are being made

because he's afraid he won't find

someone. So, he's dealing with

something. It's not confidence he's

dealing with. He's insecure, but his his

decision is I need to be find somebody

now because I'm afraid I won't find

somebody or I'm afraid I won't get

married or I'm afraid I won't have kids.

So everything is fear-based with him.

It's like when you make a decision, you

know, I I can't quit my job because I'm

afraid I won't find another job. I can't

leave this bad relationship because I'm

afraid I won't find somebody else. Those

are fear-based decisions. So everything

he's doing is pushed and promoted by

fear. So him dating trying to find

someone. It's not cuz he truly does he

want to find somebody. Yes. But the

bigger drive is I'm afraid I'm not going

to find somebody. So I'm trying so hard.

I So all his decisions are fearbased. So

that's why his response were fear-based.

Being fear-based is not a great place to

be. We all visit it. And it's okay to

have fear. Fear is an emotion. But when

it becomes your identity and it sticks

around a lot, that means every decision

you're made is is throttled by fear. And

so his dating is throttled by the fear

that I won't find somebody fast enough.

>> People can tell, can't they?

>> You feel it. You feel You feel it. You

feel that energy, right? And it does.

Does Does it repel people? Yeah. So, he

had this very emotional reaction. And

what did she do? She's like, "I don't

want any part of it." She disappeared

because his fear, which he couldn't

control, and that was more

self-regulation on his part, not

confidence. Self-regulation.

Self-regulation is I control my

emotions. So he felt something. He felt

panic.

>> Mhm.

>> And he couldn't manage that. He couldn't

like his governor. We all have a

governor who manages our emotions. His

governor was out to lunch.

>> Yeah.

>> And so he completely released. So

self-regulation is your ability to

regulate your emotions. So even though

you're panicking, you're afraid, you're

angry, you're sad, there has to be a

governor that says, "I know you're

there. Keep it quiet."

That's how you regulate your emotions.

That's self-regulation. So, because he's

so highly fear-based, he's very poor at

that moment at self-regulating his

emotions.

>> Can someone learn to be a better

self-regulator of their emotions so that

they don't ruin their life by reacting

to things all the time?

>> I did. I was very hot-headed growing up.

I was just like my father. I'm Greek.

I'm New York. I mean, it was I just had

nothing going for me. Uh, I had to learn

and I learned in the NYPD. I was very

young and I was very fortunate to be

around very premier people. We were

talking about your hiring process before

how it's slow and drawn out. That hiring

process is very slow and drawn out. They

kind they pluck you because the idea is

if we put you in here, you better fit

well because just one person is going to

muck up the whole thing. We don't want

we want efficiency. And so I so with

that I was around very highly regulated

people, highly intelligent people. And

so because I was around very highly

regulated pe people and instructors who

kept me in check, uh I clocked it in. So

that's how I was able to manage myself.

So who's around you if everybody around

you is a loose screw?

>> Do you still have the

amygdala like explosion that like do you

still have the mental

surge of emotion, but you just on the

outside sort of have leared to keep it

in

>> externally. I can do it very well.

Sometimes at home with my husband who's

also he's also a homeland security

special agent, US Secret Service, I

sometimes it's nice to put it down

because it's hard to be on all the time.

It's hard to self-regulate all the time.

And so there's moments where he'd be

like, "Somebody's a little emotional

right now." And so I'll check myself.

But there are those safe people that

once in a while you I think it's

important if to have. But even with him,

you know, you don't want to do that to

people because then you make people your

dorm hat.

>> Someone came up to me actually the other

day and talked about a previous

conversation which is somewhat linked to

what we're talking about now. They said,

um, hi Stevie, you had that incredible

woman on your podcast and she talked

about how you shouldn't bring your

authentic self to work and she asked me

about that.

And that's kind of what you're

describing there, which is you're going

to be a different person at home.

>> Don't bring your authentic self to work.

I don't want your authentic self to

work. I want your professional self. I

want your respectful self.

I want your empathetic self. I want your

competent self. You can bring your

authentic self to Thanksgiving meal with

your family if you'd like to. Does that

make sense? You secret service like,

"Come in. Everybody be your

authenticelves." You don't get high

performers. You get sloppiness.

Everybody's doing their own thing.

That's not a team.

If you're team oriented, you leave your

authentic self here and you bring your

genuine self who genuinely cares about

the mission, who genuinely cares to do a

good job, who genuinely knows that it's

not about you. It's about the collective

team. That's who you bring. Your

authentic self is about who? Me, me, me,

me, me. I'm all about me. In teams,

nobody cares about I don't mean it in a

me way. They don't care about you

personally. Who? Who are you? What are

you bringing? Are you bringing value?

Are you bringing Are you bringing

solutions? Are you getting things done?

My authentic self. Could you imagine if

I brought my authentic New York self to

every interrogation I did? I would

interview people who committed crimes

against children. I had one case,

three-year-old little girl. She says

about the person who was babysitting

her, which was a 16-year-old young man.

Young man, he touched me down there.

Three-year-old little girl. So, they

call me in to do this interview.

um on this young man, this little girl

saying he touched her down there.

They're three. They're not really able

to communicate. Can you talk to him? So,

I'm sitting talking to him this

interview and I'm trying to find out

what happened. Well, as I'm talking to

him, he starts to reveal more and more.

He did touch down there and he did other

things to the point where he confessed

he had full-on sex with this little girl

between the ages of 3 to four of her

age. He's 16. Could you imagine if I

brought my authentic self into that

room?

What would my authentic self say? What

are you thinking? How could you? It's a

three-year-old. No, I brought my

professional self. Okay, tell me what

happened. Tell me more. Non-judgment

poker face. You know why? Because what I

think my authentic self is irrelevant.

What mattered? Getting information,

getting a confession so I can find out

what happened so that investigators

could figure out what to do so this

little girl wouldn't be victimized

again. That's what I mean by your

authentic self. Don't come in and be

phony. Nobody wants a phony. But

authentic self has become me me.

Everybody check me out. It's me me. I

was irrelevant personally. It was what I

was contributing. What was my goal, my

task? That's what I mean by authentic

self. So when you show up to work,

wherever you work, what are you bringing

to bring value to the whole team? Cuz

your authentic self could be I'm

bringing my problems. I'm bringing my

opinions. I'm bringing my judgments.

Honestly, nobody cares. I am have lots

of different leaders across my different

companies and when I look at the best

leaders, one of the things they have in

common is you do feel like they are

being honest with you.

Are they bringing their full authentic

self and all their baggage to work? No.

But you feel like you're dealing with

the honest version of them. And I think

some of the worst leaders, the ones that

really really struggle, you can see that

the team that they're leading

just feel like maybe they're

manipulating them a little bit or

they're they're not being straight with

them or there's something going on.

They're acting. You can kind of feel it.

So, I'm wondering how this kind of sits

with everything you've just said there

cuz you're going into these

interrogations

and you're winning them over to some

degree because

>> I'm building trust.

>> You're building trust, but you're not

acting. That's a different thing.

>> I'm not being disingenuous.

>> How do you square all of that? You're

like, "No, you're Are you acting or

you're not acting?"

>> I'm listening cuz I'm not there for me

and I'm not there to pass judgment. The

quickest way to shut people down, even

in business, you want to know what's

going on around you all the time. If

people are too afraid to say things or

don't tell Steven, oh, you don't know

how he's going to react or he's going to

get mad, his this, that's a problem. The

problem is they're going to be too

afraid to tell you things. You want

people to come to you and to give you

the bad news to tell you when things

aren't going right because you want to

collect intelligence. You're collecting

intelligence because when you have the

right intelligence, then you can make

the right decisions. But you must need

to know what's going on around you. So

when you pass judgment and you're

telling everybody your opinion and

you're bringing your authentic self,

people filter information

because they're bringing versions of

themselves that they think you want to

hear. We don't want that. I was very

neutral. I'm a neutral slate even to

this day. I try to be neutral in that I

allow people to come to me and people

are very open and they share and it

works well for me because I get a good

read on people and situation so I can

make good decisions but I don't do a lot

of the talking. The vag a good

interviewer doesn't say anything.

Good interviewer says less. Don't make

it about you. Don't try to guess where

people head space is. Ask them you seem

you seem like you're something I said

before is upsetting to you. Could you

tell me a little bit about that? Uh,

explain to me what it is that you're

worried about right now. Describe to me

what you're concerned at. We used to

call it teed. Tell me, explain,

describe. It's just a way great way to

get people talking. Just get them

talking. But it going back to what

you're saying. It's just everything is

very about me me. We become so identity

based that we don't really

we're not connected to the community

around us and how we impact others.

Everything is what's happening to me.

What's in it for me? Me, me, me. It's

like, do you know that you impact other

people? You touch other people. You

affect other people's lives. You make

other people's day better or worse. You

make the work environment easier or more

taxing.

You You do that, but everything has

become

myself. And we've lost that balance of

the world does to me, but I also do to

the world. to be effective when you're

dealing with these monstrous people that

you dealt with, whether it's terrorists

or people that hurt children or whoever

else it might be. Is did you have to

kind of step outside of

like do you do you have to detach at

some deeper level and do you have to see

everybody as just a human being? Cuz I'm

I'm wondering how you navigate those

spaces when these people have done

horrific things. Are you do you did you

teach yourself to just be more

empathetic? Dare I say

>> you could be empathetic. So all

different crimes have different types of

characteristics. So somebody who's a

terrorist, let's say, that's more of an

ideology. And they were typically raised

from being very young to feel a certain

way. So I understood coming into a room

that I'm dealing with someone who's been

groomed from a very young age to see the

world a certain way. So that's why I did

not bother wasting my time trying to

change the that that that that person's

viewpoint.

>> But what about that kid that hurt that

little girl?

>> So with him, that specific one, I spent

a lot of time speaking to him and I did

bring empathy. So empathy does not mean

I agree with you. I'm trying to

understand you. And what turned out with

him is he had been sexually abused

himself when he was young. And so all

that stuff came out and it did not

excuse his behavior or what he did, but

it was genuine. I was genuinely curious.

I was genuinely asking him. Um, and at

the same time, I needed to find out the

truth. Look, there were sometimes I

would have somebody across from me and

I'm thinking they did it and then

afterward I'm like, they didn't do it.

There's there's times where you clear

people and that's really important. So

that's why when you would at least when

you talk to people and even to this day

I I we're all biased but I try not to

come in and project that I really try to

give people a fair chance to show me

what's happening instead of coming in

with prejudgments. And so you're better

at reading their behavior too um when

you're talking to people. So with him he

revealed a whole bunch what had happened

to him. It was sad. It was empathetic.

It did not clear him from what he did.

They eventually actually with the

confession I got he was eventually tried

as an adult and you know that was very

detrimental obviously to his life right

it impacted his life but but I I could

have genuine empathy in that moment

empathy is I I'm just trying to

understand where you are and how you

feel that's not sympathy

>> who's better at spotting lies women or

men

>> there's no research that shows one is

better than the other

>> cuz women seem to have a sixth sense and

people joke about it in like

relationship context, but I generally

feel like I feel like women have a

heightened sensitivity. And actually,

when you look at some of the studies,

for example,

women can smell I think it's

testosterone, but men can't smell

certain the same or certain hormones on

women. So, like from a physiological

standpoint, women do seem to be more

sensitive

to especially to like pair um to men.

There was that study they did where they

got um t-shirts off men after they'd

been for a run and the women went down

and smelt them and then they I think

they had to guess which one was the most

attractive and they all pointed the one

that had the highest testosterone in it.

So there's things that are going on that

we can't see and feel. So I just

wondered if your experience men or women

were.

>> In my experience, no. And I will say and

this is just a a lot of men were very

good at assessing. One of the reasons um

look the vast majority of polygraph

examiners were male. There were some

women and they were very good too. The

vast were male. What males men are good

at being more rational. It's actually

they were there was a they were trying

to figure out if there's a difference in

the brain between men's brains and

women's brains. And there's not much.

The one thing that they saw is that

women have more discernment. So a a

female brain tends to activate a little

bit more and they tend to think about

something more than the male brain. A

male brain may be a bit more impulsive,

right? More actionbased and the female

brain may be a bit more let me talk to

you, let me try to understand. And

actually if you look at the data for

female cops versus male cops, female

cops have less complaints against them,

made against them, and they tend to

think because they're better

communicators. they have less complaints

because when you're a cop, you're going

to get a complaint. There's no way

you're gonna get them like you're gonna

just get them. Um, but women tend to

have less female officers tend to have

less complaints and they think that

they're just better at dialoguing and

deescalating.

>> On this point about confidence, then you

said it didn't sound like my friend had

a confidence issue. Do you think

confidence is the thing that the people

who do feel like they're not respected

in the world need to be aiming at? And

in your experience, what what can one do

to build their confidence?

>> Let me say this first. I've been around

very

steady people, confident people, I

suppose. I've never seen anyone or heard

anybody talk about it

ever. I've never heard anybody in the

circle of where I was, whether it's

former SEALs, uh, US Secret Service, the

PE that that I've never heard anyone

talk about it. And I think one of the

secrets is they don't talk about it.

They don't think about it. They don't

give it that much life. They just I just

am. I just are. So I think that's one

secret where people try to they think

about it so much and I think it goes

back to what we're saying initially like

stop overanalyzing. Just be just be you

just do. But now if you're if you're

looking at confident people with things

that I notice traits amongst confident

people or steady people uh I they have a

strong they have a good circle around

them meaning they're very aware and

meticulous of who's around them and who

they associate with cuz if you're not if

you're around insecure people it it

bleeds on you like you're going to

absorb what other people are and if you

know if you're the most confident person

in the room it's probably not a good

thing.

It's it's not a good thing. You want to

be around people you learn from. It

can't just be you're at the top and

everybody's looking to you. Your

bathtub's going to crack. Number one.

The other thing I learned about

confidence, research shows law people in

law enforcement are perceived to be

highly confident. And one of the reasons

they believe it is because they're

decision makers. You make decisions on

the spot. Everyday life and death

decisions. And there's nobody to turn

around to be like, "Hey, can I ask you

your opinion on this? What do you think

I should do with this guy wielding this

knife? Should I shoot? Should I not?

Should I pull out the pepper spray? I

mean, what would you do in this moment?

You'd be dead.

So, when you're used to making

decisions, whether right or wrong, but

when you're used to making those

decisions and believing in yourself and

trusting in yourself that you're making

the best decision you can with the

information you have at that moment,

that builds confidence. Be a decision

maker. I think those are the two most

important things, having awareness. And

honestly, just show up. Just show up.

Don't worry about being confident. Worry

about simple things. Show up on time.

>> I was reading this study about

confidence in the victim mindset. It was

a study done by Yuggov in 2025 in the

United States. And it said women rated

themselves much higher on

trustworthiness, honesty, and empathy.

But men rated themselves higher on

self-awareness, sense of humor, and

confidence. And the gap between

self-reported confidence between men and

women was quite significant. It's about

50% of men consider themselves confident

where it's only about 35% of women that

consider themselves confident.

>> I'll tell you this, I've never heard uh

I've never heard anybody like from the

field of work I came for came from say I

feel like I'm an imposttor. You know

that whole imposter syndrome? I've never

heard that again. I didn't hear it till

after I left the service. Like it's wild

cuz all these things I had no awareness

of them because they were never

discussed in the circle that we were in.

the so I also think sometimes when we

sit and discuss these things to such

extent that they actually start to plant

seeds of doubt I'm not saying we

shouldn't study and have self-awareness

but I think when we over evaluate to

such a degree I we never did that and

you know how do you how do you build

confidence in I I think about training

training there was nobody cheering you

on there was nobody like hey pump good

job good job girl good job they were

they were trying to get me sent home.

You had to fight. You had to claw your

way. You had to claw your way to get

that job and then prove that you should

be there. They did everything they could

to wean you out, to kick you out. And so

I think when you're determined,

like you stick, you just stick it out

and you're just There was days where I'm

like, I don't know how I'm going to get

through today. Or even runs. We would do

runs and one of the things they would do

just to mess with you. They take you on

on a run for miles and miles and you

never knew when it was going to end.

That's the worst. At least if you know,

hey, we're going to run from here to

here. It's going to be 2 miles, 3 miles,

5 miles, 10 miles, whatever. Tell me

what I'm looking at. But it they

wouldn't tell you. So you'd start

running. And then you'd hit a point like

and you'd think, at least I would. I

think, "Oh my god, how am I going to do

this?" And you know what I would do? I

would go and I'd be like, "Just make it

to that tree." It was just 5t ahead of

me. I made it to the tree. make it to

that mailbox. I made it to the mailbox.

Just make it to the next tree. And and

that's how you do it.

What's right in front of me? But if you

look at that whole picture of how am I

going to be all of this,

it's so overwhelming and so

it's just so hard. It's just going to

it's going to kill your confidence.

Whether it's like I want to do this,

what's the first thing I need to do?

Then the second thing I would think and

I'm asking you when you build your

businesses right or your company did you

just put one foot in front of the other

and just try to do it or did you stop

and say you know what Stephen let's have

a conversation I need to be confident

before I do this I need to build my

confidence did you sit and do that and

once you checked off that confidence bit

then you're like okay now I'm ready to

do this

>> yeah one of the most incredible things

is I I actually didn't know what the

world entrepreneur was I had no idea

what it was so I had this idea and I

started did trying to figure out how to

make the idea happen which looked like 3

months on Google scrolling down

searching the word web developer

clicking onto people's links and then

emailing them saying hey can you build

websites like I so it was this long

drawn out process of stumbling forward

and had I known I think a lot of

entrepreneurs and founders say this had

I known what it would have taken had I

known how difficult it was had I not

been so ignorant and naive maybe I would

have been demotivated or demoralized to

do it but I was 18 left university had

an idea didn't know what the word

entrepreneur was. Didn't really even

know how you established a company and

tried to use the internet to make that

idea happen in like 3 to four months

trying to figure out how you name a

company just by like googling stuff. So

very much one foot in front of the

other.

>> What did you just say? I was ignorant

and naive.

>> Yeah, it was useful. It was phenomenally

useful cuz I think if if I was informed

it would have been like standing at the

foot of Mount Everest, but I couldn't

see the mountain in front of me. So it

felt much more easy to climb. And this

is in part why people get, you know, I

spoke to Neiel who's a an author of a

book called undistractable.

And he said a phrase to me which I've

always remembered. He said

procrastination

is

the avoidance of psychological

discomfort. So when you have that big

essay to do, what you end up doing is

taking the path of least resistance,

which might be I'll just clean the house

and the house gets really tidy because

psychologically that essay feels like

Mount Everest. You don't know where to

start. You're not well researched on it.

So you clean the house instead. And so

procrastination is the avoidance of

psychological discomfort. And so had I

known how big that mountain was when I

was 18, I probably wouldn't have done it

because the psychological discomfort

associated with the knowledge would have

been so overwhelming. I would have just

cleaned my house. And so sometimes,

yeah, it does help.

>> It goes back to a lot of the stuff that

we're saying that sometimes

overanalyzing and trying to make sense

of things does you a disservice where

sometimes if you just let things be and

you just move forward to try to execute,

the goal is to execute and do. Because

if you sit and trying to analyze

everything, how should this be done or

that be done? Or if you look at the big

big p bigger picture of what it's going

to be like, it's it can be it can kill

you. It can kill your confidence.

Training, I had no idea what training

was going to be like. Absolutely none. I

went in there completely blind,

completely clueless. I actually thought

it was going to be like college. Haha. I

learned my lesson the hard way. But this

I think we need to be a bit more present

and focused and just start executing and

making progress. Progress, no matter how

small, is progress as long as you're

moving in that direction. But thinking

about something, ruminating over

something, playing that CD over and over

again, procrastinating, just start. Just

go.

>> I spoke to Sir David Brazilford, who's

the guy that turned the British cycling

team around. And he told me that when he

went in there and those players, those

cyclists were like down and out and

depressed and winning nothing. One of

the first things he did was ban them

from thinking about the podium. And so I

always I came up with this phrase called

pedals over podium based on everything

he said to me which is he got his riders

to think about the pedals in front of

him just the rotation of the pedals and

not whether they were cycling fast

enough to win the gold or needed to

speed up. And he said to me when he did

that it was almost like the riders would

get to the end of the track and they

would get off the bike and they could

not recall the cycle because they were

so present. They'd almost been in like

this hypnotic state, but they ended up

producing their best times because what

they've done is they removed the

amygdala, all the emotion, the fear, the

you know, which burns a lot of energy as

a cyclist, I imagine, if you're thinking

too much. And that produced their best

times. They went on to become the most

successful cycling team of all time, I

believe, and won five out of the six

tour to Frances. And that whole idea of

like, yeah, just be present, just focus

on the next, as you say, step along the

way.

I think it's difficult for people

because

sometimes that first step is so small.

So small that it's it's sometimes a

little bit embarrassing. You know, the

first step to change your life, the

first step to confront an issue in your

life is so sometimes so small that it

feels like that can't possibly be the

right step to take

>> because it's hard because it's

uncomfortable.

>> What's that like? They call it exposure

therapy. It was Jordan Peterson that

said to me, he was like dealing with a

guy in that he who wouldn't leave his

bedroom and instead of getting him to

like go outside and stuff, he just got

him to move the Hoover 10 cm closer

today and that was today done. And then

the next day he got him to like turn the

Hoover on but then turn it off. That was

that day done. And Jordan said to me, he

said, "The problem with people with

change is the first step is often so

embarrassingly and shame shamefully

small that people like don't want to do

it. That's like embarrassing to do

something so small

>> because it's a myth. We've been fed a

myth that to make big change in your

life, you have to make do big decisions.

You have to make make big movement and

the big change you create in life, it's

through the small movements. You just

reminded me of a story. My buddy Don

Saladino, he's like the he does training

um for all the you ever watch a lot of

those Marvel movies, the DC movies with

all those characters. He trains a lot of

them to get them physically fit for the

movies. and he was telling me he had a a

story of a I think he was telling me he

had a client and who he was just trying

to get him to work out and the client

was overweight and having all these

issues. And what what the client did

what what they they did is the client

just tried to create progress. So the

first day what he did was he took his

sneakers and he just put them in front

of his bed and that was it. And then the

next day he took his shoes and put them

outside the door of his bedroom. And

then the day after that he took the

shoes and put them in the kitchen. And

then the next day he took the shoes and

just put them on. And then the day after

that he took the shoes, he walked

outside and put them on outside. Then

the day after that he took the shoes and

just went to the corner and then came

back. And then he went from being

severely obese and having um um being

very unhealthy to running marathons.

And that's how he did it.

You've seen some of the most

consequential people ever make

decisions, these presidents.

Maybe you can't answer this question. I

don't know if you can, but who were the

best decision makers and why that you

observed?

>> I'm going to say this, to be the

president of United States, it's no

small thing. So, for you to get to that

place, you

you are exceptional. I I just I say this

in a in a neutral way. people get very

personal or biased and I I don't just

because I served under various

presidencies didn't matter what the

party was and I learned so much from all

of them but as far as making decisions

there are a couple of things one they

had a really good circle around them in

her circle like everybody didn't have

access to the president there were

layers around the president so everybody

didn't have access to them that was

really important but the circle around

them was a circle that was there to

support them everybody around them was

steady I never saw Uh, I never saw

anybody go cry at the White House. I

never saw anybody lose their mind. I

never saw anybody get emotionally

dregulated. I never saw this. And that

was important because that kept them

steady. The other thing was they were

very good at delegating. So they didn't

need to know everything, but they would

find people who knew more than they did

to give them adisement to help make

decisions and they would just make

decisions. The other thing I saw and I

witnessed, they worked very hard. they

worked. I would see presidents sit up. I

mean, I think it's okay to say this. I

really don't talk about the people are

protected out of out of respect. You

know, there's a Greek saying, everybody

loves the

everybody loves the treason. Nobody

loves a traitor. And so, I'm just always

careful not to say, but I would see

presidents like I remember President

Bill Clinton, he'd be up till very late

hours of the night studying, reading,

preparing, just reading. President

Barack Obama. I mean, I'd work midnight

shifts sometimes and he was up studying,

sitting at his desk, reading, preparing.

They would study. They would spend time

studying. So, all those things

collectively help you feel like I'm as

informed as I can be by studying myself,

by surrounding myself with people who

are informing me, who are also steady.

And then I make the best decisions I can

with the m the information I have in

front of me. Now, one of the things we

do, and we all do this, we do a

disservice to us when things don't go or

work out the way we thought they would.

We beat up on ourselves. I should have

known this. I should have this. I should

have that. And anytime I start to do

that or I have somebody, and I always

say, I'm like, my husband used to say

this, too. He's like, you made the best

decision you could with what you knew in

that moment. Don't go back and make

yourself feel like [ __ ] because you feel

you should have chose differently. I've

heard Obama say that as well

>> just like I said it

>> pretty much close. He I I heard him talk

about this whole idea of making

decisions at 51% certainty when he spoke

at this conference I was speaking at in

Sa Paulo a couple of years ago and he

was talking about the big decisions in

his career like going in and getting

Assama bin Laden didn't have 100%

certainty and he said sometimes in life

you have to make make a decision with

the information you have and be at peace

with the fact that you made the best

available decision with the information

you had and move move on.

>> Confident people are okay with not

knowing all the information. Yeah,

>> they're okay. I don't need to know. It

doesn't have to be 100% right. Because,

and here's the other thing, because

we're so scared of making the wrong

decision. And unless you're the

president of the United States or and

you're in law enforcement and you may

shoot the wrong human being, which I

get, but overall, most decisions, not

life or death, make a decision and then

feel okay with it being wrong, if you're

so insecure that you're terrified you're

going to make the wrong decision. Why?

Cuz you're going to look dumb. You're

going to feel dumb.

confidence. You don't care how you look

or how you eat. You're not sit and

you're not quantifying. He's going to

think I'm done. She's going to think I

look stupid. They're going to think

this. And even for yourself,

like you don't tally that. You're okay

with making the wrong decision. It's

like I'm going to make my choice. I hope

it's the right one. I did the best I

could, but I'm comfortable with that.

But if you're so worried about it's the

wrong decision,

then don't make one. And that's that in

and it of itself that confident people

don't do that. So the other thing I

would see presidents do they had they

had time to themselves

meaning like you would see them they

would have time where they would be

alone and they would think they weren't

they weren't always exposed or

surrounded by people. George W. Bush he

would go to Waco to the ranch. That was

his roots. That was his place to like I

need to kind of find my roots. President

Barack Obama, I spent every holiday in