But everyone agrees that humans are 300

15,000 years old.

>> I mean at present when I started on this

quest back back in the late 80s early

'9s it was felt that anatomically modern

human beings had not existed for more

than 50,000 years very recent really

>> but this turned out to be complete

rubbish because anatomically modern

humans are much older than 50,000 years

ago. We have 196,000year-old

anatomically modern human remains from

Ethiopia. And then finally 315,000

years ago, a recent find in um Giblier

Hood in Morocco, again anatomically

modern humans. So we can say that

if we define ourselves by our anatomy,

uh, brain size,

capacity of the skull, if we define

ourselves in those ways, we've been

around for at least 315,000 years and

probably much longer. That's that's just

an accident of discovery. And that's one

of the things that puzzles me. If we're

anatomically modern, if we've got all

the modern kit, if we've got the same

brains, we've got the same neurology,

everything is there. Why do we wait more

than 300,000 years to establish

something recognizable as a human

civilization? Why do we wait so long? We

got all the kit. There's evidence that

that our ancestors were aware of

agriculture, just chose not to use it

much, much much earlier than that. the

complex of events that leads to a

city-based civilization, which is the

kind of civilization we have now all

over the world, that you can only really

trace that back to 6,000 years ago. Yes,

you can say that before 6,000 years ago,

there was buildup to what became the

high civilizations.

But my question is why not much earlier?

Why why did we wait until that moment?

And and I don't find a satisfactory

answer to that question except perhaps

we didn't wait. Perhaps we're missing

part of our story. And when I say a lost

civilization, I do not mean a

civilization like ours. I do not mean an

industrial civilization. I don't mean

they had cell phones or flew to the moon

or any of that I think they

were very different civilization from

ours. But they had conquered a number of

peaks and one of those peaks was

navigation and ocean seafaring. Hence

the survival of maps which show the

world as it looked during the ice age.

And another was astronomy. Uh and

another really important breakthrough

evidenced by by the ancient maps

particularly a category of maps called

the portalanos

um is accurate relative longitudes. This

is the Arantius Phineas map. It shows

Antarctica uh right there. Uh and and um

this is interesting because this map was

drawn in 1531.

Uh the problem is that our civilization

didn't discover Antarctica until 1820.

So its appearance on a map drawn in

1521,

particularly when we know that the map

was based on older source maps. And the

map maker tells us in his own legend

that he has uncovered material

previously hidden in darkness. When we

find that uh we have to begin to wonder

what is what is going on here. Had

somebody found Antarctica long before

long before we did uh and mapped it with

extremely accurate relative longitudes.

And that's important because our

civilization didn't crack the longitude

problem until the mid- 18th century.

What that meant was that if you're on a

vessel sailing west or east, uh you

might be 300 miles closer to a coastline

than you think you are and suddenly

you're on it in the night and you're

dead. Once you've got longitude work

out, you know exactly where you are. We

didn't get that until 1750, 1760

thereabouts with Harrison's chronometer.

So finding good longitudes on very

ancient maps is another puzzle that I

don't think archaeology solved. So, you

think there could have been a

civilization 20,000 years ago which was

before this young dryest moment where um

I mean I've got this photo here which

I'll throw up on the screen.

>> Yeah.

>> I think you say is evidence that

something took place.

>> It is that's that's the younger dry

boundary. Uh and I'm with Alan West

who's one of the scientists from the

from the comet research group who are

working on the younger dry hypothesis.

And our hands are on that black stripe

running through the middle of the

drawer. And that is soot. That is

evidence of wildfires burning. Uh it's

full of nano diamonds, tiny little

diamonds microscopic size which are a

classic product of comet impacts. Uh

microspherules, some platinum, some

iridium. All signatures of a cometry

impact. And there it is. It's about 5 in

thick. That layer is the younger dus

boundary layer. It dates to 12,800 years

ago.

>> So for anyone that can't see, it's just

like a slice of earth. And there's this

black line going through through the

earth. We're in a draw here where a

river has cut a channel and it's exposed

the sides of the channel and on the

sides of the channel we can see this

black stripe running through and that is

precisely the younger driest boundary

>> and the current hypothesis is from a lot

of archaeologists is there wasn't a

human civilization before this point

12,000 years ago but you believe there's

strong evidence that there could have

been.

>> Yes.

>> So civilization then in your definition

of the word how do you define that? A

group of people gathering and working

together. Fundamentally, it involves it

involves the willing organization or the

unwilling organization of labor. If you

look at a site like Gobeclet in Turkey,

we have it on our timeline here

somewhere. It's 11,000

600 years old. Uh this is really an

extraordinary site. It's a it's a very

sophisticated site. It's very large. It

consists of large T-shaped megaliths

that can weigh up to 20 tons. There are

precise astronomical alignments in it.

Uh this was not done by two or three

people working together. This was well

that's the gobeci today covered by a a

modern canopy to keep uh fair enough to

keep the the weather off it because it

was previously deliberately buried by

its builders. Um but of course there's

much more around. Hundreds and hundreds

more pillars are still underground. We

know they're there because of ground

penetrating radar, but they've not been

excavated yet. So, so this was a major

project and interestingly the people who

built Gobeclet at that at the time

Gobeclet began there was no agriculture

happening there. They were all hunter

gatherers.

>> Mhm.

>> Nevertheless, they did something that

archaeologists used to say hunter

gatherers couldn't do. They organized

themselves. They made a huge project.

They implemented it and they delivered

it. And Gobecletep is not alone. It's

one of dozens of sites like that all

over Anatolia in in in Turkey. This was

a highly organized, sophisticated

huntergatherer civilization that was

involved in making this place.

>> I'm I'm a little bit confused. So, if

the ice age ended 11,700 years ago,

>> Yeah.

>> and Gbecki is 11,600 years ago,

>> that means there's a 100redyear gap

between the end of the ice age and

something as sophisticated as Gabbecki.

>> Not exactly. Because because dates in

this frame, they're not spot-on accurate

dates. Some will say the ice age ended

11,600. Some will say it ended 11,700

years ago. But the fact is that in this

window, the world was warming up again.

It was getting better. And that's when

this project was was created. And the

mystery is mystery for for

archaeologists anyway is that it was

hunter gatherers. And archaeologists are

now having to come to terms with that.

You see the idea was you had to have an

agricultural community first in order to

create projects like this because that

allows people to become specialists.

What if you generate a food surplus that

you can rely on then you can take people

with certain skills and say focus on

that become an astronomer become an

architect become an engineer we'll

support you in doing that. That was the

idea and that was why it was felt that

something like Gobeclet couldn't be

built until about 6,000 years ago when

there was widespread agriculture. But

that turned out not to be true. Uh it

was built by hunter gatherers, but

within a thousand years of it being

built, agriculture becomes present in

that whole area.

>> H origins of agriculture are definitely

earlier than we've than we've been

taught.

>> So it's funny because I don't know a lot

about the ice age, but humans survived

the ice age.

>> Oh god, yes, we we we did. It's just

it's just um

where do you want to be during an ice

age? That's the question.

>> What are my options?

If you were a rational being, which most

human beings are, you would immediately

exclude Northern Europe.

>> Absolutely no point in being in that

frozen, miserable wilderness.

>> You'd immediately exclude the northern

part of North America, too. No point in

being there. It's just horrible at that

time. Siberia, pretty rough. No, you'd

look for the tropics. You'd go you'd go

down close to the equator. you'd go to

the places that weren't affected by the

ice age, that were actually the best

real estate on Earth. That's where you'd

go. That's why uh if we are looking for

a missing episode in the human story,

we're wasting our time looking for it in

Northern Europe or North America. Uh we

should be looking for it in Mexico. We

should be looking for it in India. We

should be looking for it in Indonesia.

we should be looking for it uh around

Papu Nu Guinea. All of these areas that

were that were really great places to

live during the ice age. That's that's

the kind of place that the sort of

civilization I'm talking about could

have thrived.

>> What is the difference? You know, cuz on

here it says the earliest known humans

were 300,000 odd years ago.

>> Yeah.

>> What is the difference between these

humans 300,000 years ago and the

civilization you're describing 20,000

years ago that you believe existed?

Apart from what is perhaps wrongly

described as a slight refinement in

human features, natural selection

operating on what humans perceive as

beauty, I don't know, but otherwise the

same

>> the same

>> the same. Yeah. Yeah. And again, that's

not that not disputed. Nobody's saying

that Jebel Hood human beings were

somehow different from us. They're

anatomically modern humans.

>> But how did they live um versus your

definition of ai civilization?

>> They lived a simple hunter gatherer

life.

>> Okay. in small groups.

>> Yeah. But somehow

around 11,600 years ago, people started

accumulating

monuments that can only be made with

large groups and organized organized

labor. You've got to you you have to

have a system. You have to can't build

something like Gobeci without planning

out in advance. You got to draw it out

somehow. There has to be a plan. It's

not something you just wing. Uh so so

there has to there's a missing

background to all of that which bothers

me. And again, so most people think

civilization started what 6,000 years

ago.

>> Yes. That that would be when

civilizations become archaeologically

visible. So you have uh ancient Sumemer,

Mesopotamia,

uh which roughly 3,500 I'm going to use

BC because everybody's familiar with

that. Roughly 3,500 BC, which is 5,500

years ago approximately, we start seeing

cities being built. We start seeing the

beginnings of writing taking place

around about the same time. The same

thing is happening in Egypt. Maybe a

couple of hundred years later, but the

new work that's being done in Egypt is

pushing Egypt much closer to to Sumer,

narrowing that that window. Effectively,

you can say that these two civilizations

become archaeologically visible at the

same time. And uh they're not alone

because on the other side of the world

in Peru uh there's a civilization now

recognized called the Karal Supoupe

civilization which built pyramids uh

which also goes back 5,500 years. Uh and

and this is one of the mysteries I'm I'm

looking at now is is why we have these

apparently coincidental emergence of

high civilizations in the same window uh

all around the world. Indis Valley

civilization roughly the same 5,000

years old. Yeah. We're looking at Karal

here I think. Yeah. Yeah. These classic

these the feature is these circular

plazas in front of them and then the

pyramid with a and and uh you know these

were not and not expected in Peru. When

archaeologists think of Peru they tend

to think of Machu Picchu the Inca

civilization. That's what gets all the

coverage.

>> And that's 600 years ago.

>> That's 600 years ago. yesterday. Whereas

these Kal Supoupe pyramids, Karal,

Asparro, Bandura,

Pineo, these ones are much older,

thousands of years older. They're

extremely sophisticated. They built with

an earthquake proof technology. They

instead of using blocks, they put small

stones in in textile bags and those

allow a certain amount of shifting so

the thing doesn't collapse in an

earthquake. And this is 5,500 years old

getting on. So again, not an

agricultural civilization at the at that

time. They're a huntergatherer

civilization. So So archaeologists are

having to confront a reversal of their

model at the moment. And I think there's

room in that reversal of the model for a

forgotten episode in the human story.

>> Tell me about this forgotten episode in

the human story.

>> Yeah, it's uh it's remembered it's

remembered all around the world as a

golden age where there was no violence,

no cruelty. Um where great healers and

sages were at work. where powers that

are scorned in our society today such as

telepathy and telekinesis which are

regarded as completely non-existent by

our scientists uh were regarded as a

matter of fact of life in in in this

ancient world. That's uh a civilization

that emerged out of shamanism uh and

made something good. But then if you

follow the myths further as I've done,

you find something odd happens,

you find that they've stepped away from

the original purity

that they've become

a culture that begins to impose its

power on others around the world. And

that's always given as the reason for

the cataclysm in the myths that that we

angered the gods. It might have been

with our noise. It might have been with

our irreverence. We angered the gods and

they sent a flood. They weren't happy

with their creation. They wanted to

start again, wipe the slate clean. And

so there's this there's always this

feeling in the myths and it's and I

can't explain it. I don't know what what

it comes from, but it's always there is

that in some way we ourselves

brought this upon ourselves. Is this

those people not understanding the

forces of mother nature and trying to

sort of justify it as

>> or perhaps a deeper understanding of the

forces of mother nature? Maybe

>> perhaps the way that human beings are

operating in the world today

um should be included amongst the forces

of nature. We we are a geological force.

Uh and worse than that, we're a psychic

force which is full of anger and hatred

and suspicion and and and mutual

destruction. That's not going to be good

for nature. That that's that's going to

be disturbing. We're an integrated

system in my view. We we're not

separate. Human beings are part of all

of this and what we do affects all of

that. And that's what the ancient myths

seem to testify to.

So, if I may finish on that,

>> when I look at our civilization today, I

I don't want to go off on a rant, but

when I look at our civilization today, I

see a civilization that ticks all the

mythological boxes. every single one for

the next lost civilization. And I

envision a situation

10 or 15,000 years from now when we will

be a myth,

a fantasy that our our ancestors

actually could speak to one another on

opposite sides of the planet, that our

ancestors they could fly to the moon. Uh

you know, they could go to the depths of

the ocean. The archaeologists of that

time will say complete fantasy, just

made up, never happened. But it did.

We're that lost civilization

and we don't need a comet and we don't

need solar activity because if we're so

psychically messed up as a species,

we'll probably end up doing it to

ourselves.

That's what nuclear weapons are about.

mass species suicide

and the mental processes that drive that

very dangerous very effective of the

world we live in.

Hatred is a psychic force and uh the way

it's being generated around the world at

the moment and mobilized and focused is

um it's got to be bad for all of us

>> especially when we have such powers to

self-destruct. It's terrible. This This

is what drives me nuts is is looking at

the low consciousness level of the

so-called leaders on this planet. When I

look around the whole bunch of them,

I just see very low consciousness

individuals who define everything in

material terms. uh who who are who are

who are focused on

this also gets me into trouble but I

I think nationalism is something that

humanity needs to grow out of we need to

grow out of nationalism it's just an

extension of tribalism we need to grow

out of it soon and let me be clear I am

not talking about world government I

don't want anything like I don't want

any government I'm an anarchist

basically and that's what anarchy means

it means without government I don't on

any government at all. But we have to

get past this notion that by accident I

was born with this particular skin. You

know, the notion is that this these

accidents of birth define us. That we

must somehow massively respect and love

people who look like us and and and kind

of hate and fear people who don't look

like us. We have to get past that. We

have to get past that as a species. It's

really important. All human beings

everywhere all the same fundamentally.

Of course, we're vastly diverse. We have

we have incredible different gifts. I

value and appreciate the differences in

different cultures all around the world.

This is wonderful. But it doesn't have

to come with and we are better than you.

Uh and we're going to kill you because

you don't share our ideas. This is

insane. It's crazy. We're not a mature

species. We're we're a childish species.

And leading our species are leaders who

have the mentality of um deranged

teenagers.

>> We elected them.

>> Yeah, we did. Very unfortunately, which

shows how easy it is to manipulate

uh the narrative in the world today.

Today, who wins in elections isn't the

best person, isn't the good person,

isn't the person who's going to do good,

it's the best communicator who wins. So

this um ancient civilization that we

could have theoretically forgotten, you

were somewhat implying that maybe they

were right that their own actions

>> caused the

great flood as they say they they talk

about in mythology.

>> I floated that notion. Yeah. Yeah. They

might they might have been, but it's

enough to say that that's what they

believed because that's what all the

myths say. The Noah story is prefigured

in ancient Sumer um with um an almost

identical flood myth. The gods are

angry. A great flood is going to be

sent. The intention is to wipe out

humanity.

But this this god who's called Enki

says to Atraasis, I'm going to save you.

Build a boat. Build it now. A big one.

Put into it the seeds of all things that

you will need. Bring each animal of

every kind into your boat. This is this

is a kind of survival arc which is

exactly the same as Noah. Noah's arc is

just copied on that. It's just borrowed

from that. And to people that say,

"Well, these are just stories. These are

fictions that someone wrote and then

they pass them down and there's no truth

in these things at all."

>> They're welcome to say that. Uh I I I

just happen to think they're not. And

and my job has been to make that case. I

do not claim that I have proved there

was a lost civilization. Any

archaeologist who says Hanok claims he's

proved that is lying. I don't claim

that. I claim I'm puzzled and mystified.

And I'm going to I'm going to complete

that journey as long as I can. I'm going

to carry on investigating and looking

into all aspects of this because that's

what I'm here to do.

>> And that lost civilization, you said

they were seabbearing potentially.

>> Seafaring. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Which means they had boats.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So we know, for example,

that anatomically modern uh human beings

reached Australia 60,000 years ago. That

those involve significant sea journeys.

They reached Cyprus in the Mediterranean

14,000 years ago. Again, they involve

sea journeys, not engine boats, not

metal boats. You can do it on quite

simple craft. Look at look at the

Polynesians. Look at the vast distances

that they explored on outrigger canoes.

Uh so yeah, boats, but not our kind of

boats.

>> H I just don't understand how if they're

traveling the seas boats, how they're

they aren't classified as a

civilization. Well, because according to

the mainstream model which I am trying

to provide an alternative to, they never

existed. There was no such people. They

never did these things. The maps are

just coincidences, irrelevance, just

odd. They put Antarctica, they put a a

land mass in Antarctica because they

felt it would balance the world. That's

the theory that's given. And it's just

to me it's not it's not satisfactory.

Doesn't it just doesn't add up. These

things need to be explained. And it's

why it's why in every society which

wishes to make progress, uh, mavericks,

people who go against the grain, no

matter

how much they have to take, are

needed. They're needed in our society to

provide a balance to this overwhelming

mass that science now occupies. Science

has now come to occupy the space that

religion occupied in many people's

minds. And again, I need to emphasize

I'm not against science. Science.

Science is about to save my life. I have

major heart surgery coming up in two

weeks time. I'm not against it at all.

But I think it should be one weapon in

our armory, not the only weapon.

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