we just had this sound and it was a car

just rammed through the crowd and I just

blacked out Make some noise for black

CFE I hardly had a child who I was

always working and I used to hate it

growing up because I just felt like well

when when am I going to become a child

you know and play like other kids the

10th of February tell me about that day

man that was a scary thing for me when I

went to the hospital no one knew what to

do I would literally close my eyes I

wouldn't know whether it's here or here

or here or so it was paralyzed at that

point yeah I stayed for 3 months in the

hospital you know and that depressed me

even more music helped me so much it

brought me peace this is why I share it

it's my way of healing people the same

way it healed me

my childhood where I come from those

things scare me why do those things

scare you cuz it's a story it was for

years hard for me to share so what

happened is

I before this conversation starts I've

got a favor to ask from you 74% of

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and turn notifications on without

further Ado I'm Steven Bartlett and this

is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's

listening but if you are then please

keep this to

[Music]

yourself so the question that I always

start this podcast with because I I I I

studied childhood psychology for a

little while and it was Illuminating to

me how much of our early years end up

defining and shaping us how we become so

that early context before 12 years old

what what did that look like for

you um when I was born my my parents

were were married my mom was super young

I was the first one

um two other siblings at the time uh my

M married very extremely young probably

like 22 23 already with three kids

divorcing um we were moved to live with

our

grandmother from the maternal side and

she's the one who raised

us and she used to work in a general

hospital in the sewing room but I saw

her working extremely hard to go for

everything she wanted you know like I

look

back and try to imagine how much money

she was earning and look at the

achievements like changing her Mud

House into a a

big

designed respectable house and she did

this Bit by Bit by Bit And as a kid I

was there and I saw it whatever little

money she would have she would buy the

bricks it will wait she buy sand it

waits she buy gravel it waits

everything slowly so that's what I

learned from her like to be assertive

you you wake up you go work also the

strongest thing that I learned from her

is she had cows and she was the only

woman in the

area you know who had cows you know and

she was single woman

and my job was to every morning go milk

the cows before I go to school every

afternoon after school so I hardly had a

child who had like a time to play as a

child out I was always working

5:00 5:30 from 11 years old every single

day and um that was my environment you

know where I'm like okay whatever you

need you just you have to work there's

no other way and so for the few

years she would make sure I'm up she

would make sure you know I'm on time and

eventually it was my thing she didn't

have to wake me up she didn't have to

tell me when to go she didn't have to if

there was a problem with the the cars I

knew what was wrong if I needed to get

medication from the pharmacy you know I

I understood everything eventually it

became my thing you know

um that's that's my childhood where was

your father uh my father remained in

deran and remarried so he started

another family he worked in a factory uh

um they for a company called bacon they

made sweets and

chocolates um that's where he worked and

he just didn't

have he was a nice guy but he

wasn't

present you know so on holidays we go

see him you know he would have nothing

to say he wasn't the guy who was

like how was your day how was school

you know any advice type of thing you

know he wasn't it was just like the way

he was you know

um yet my grandmother was the she was

the man and a woman so she's the one who

basically and I used to hate it growing

up because I just felt like well when

when am I going to become a child you

know and play like other kids and she

was like this she was super straight she

was

like assertive

hardworking you know that's hardly time

to do like all the like the games like

other kids were doing you know so I grew

up with that kind of focus which I hated

because I wanted to be a kid you know

but

then it taught me so much

about just work having a work ethic and

um

that's how I'm able to just pick

up and and leave wherever I can you

know I always referenced this

conversation I had with the with the guy

that trained Michael Jordan and Kobe and

he told me that you know these things

when we're young they end up being the

consequence of our of our greatness of

our talent these hard these hardships we

have but they also always come with a

cost so the lack of play the lack of a a

father figure the situation of you

growing up in a house where you didn't

have a electricity you're milking cows

your your you know your food is cooked

by you creating a fire

Etc what is what is the cost I I can the

the lesson and the value it gave you is

so clear but what is the cost lots

um um one of them is just being to

myself you know um to a point where I

have a very small circle of friends

because I was never just a social guy

you know um so I

was as a kid I

always had to do all the work

alone cuz your friends will sometimes

come you know but then they realized

okay every day you know so they're not

going to always come so I was always

like a loner growing up and then I kind

of

like got comfortable that got

comfortable with trusting my thoughts

and my decisions you know like being

confident in just

myself uh without needing

people you know and that has like

affected a lot of like personal

relationships where if I just feel a

little bit

uneasy I will just remove myself and

it's not hard for me because I'm like

what I really know is myself you know

but it's it's

um um something I want to start working

on because I'm quick to

create a

comfortable space you know I can meet a

stranger and I'm quick to just

like but I I'm much quicker to move as

well you know and it's it's something

that

that I feel is not like

um

real you know but it's doable because

I'm always on the move and and and and

you know but um there are things that

I'm like I need to work on you

know um typically you know I think

there's a bit of a stereotype that that

black men aren't the best at emotions

and some some people point at sort of

generational cycles for that um did you

learn how to express your when you were

young

no I was terrible at it um and there was

no one like I said my grandmother was

quite tough

so and I look at how I am with my kids

you can see when you've

pushed a little bit hard you know in

conversation with with someone and

you're are able to bring them back you

know and explain like look I'm sorry you

know I was a out there this is why and

you know

like so that they understand all the

Dynamics you know and the older

generation was the one that will whip

you you know and tell you it's going to

hurt me that more than it hurts you and

that's it you'll get over it because as

a child you have unconditional love for

your parent you'll eventually get over

it and you're the one coming back making

jokes like nothing happened you know um

but I didn't have like a good role model

in in

anything even this you know uh I used to

like avoid I still

do this uh doing

interviews because there's just

again Society pressure that

if I'm good at making

music am I good in public

speaking so if I play songs nice am I

now a role model to your children more

than

you you know but Society will say oh

don't act this way my kids look up to

you and I'm like but I I'm just a

DJ who's living his life and all of a

sudden it's like no no no but you can't

uh you can't tweat like this because um

it's you you know

so in in the beginning all I wanted to

do was just to play music like I was

that kid even if I'm not invited at a

party I bring my record box and I wait

and I hope they give me a chance you

know like that's all I wanted to do why

why

music uh because it's always been

my um

Escape you know in that house where I

used to to leave and all I did was work

and then in my

room music helped me so much to dream of

these moments you know like if I listen

to to Michael Jackson I imagine where he

lives or in America and that one day

I'll go there you know um that's it it

really like took me to all these places

so it became my my friend you know um

and I

never had an explanation as to even then

what I would do with it like when I

finish high school I'm like I'm going to

go to college and study and my cousins

were like are you crazy then what are

you going to do I didn't

know do do you want to be a teacher I'm

like no but this is what I want to do as

long as I was surrounded by by music

that's all I wanted to do you know uh

because it just it brought me so much

peace

happiness you know and this is why I

share it I share it because of what it

does to me you know it's

my it's my way

of healing people the same way it healed

me I don't know if I'm making sense make

perfect sense you know I sat here and i

i s i I sat with the biggest comedians

in this country and typically with

comedians The Stereotype is that the

comedian

is depressed that so they started

cracking jokes and then one of the

comedians came here and said to me he

said you shouldn't be asking you should

never ask a comedian if they're

depressed because it's usually that they

were doing comedy because one of their

parents were depressed so comedy became

a way for them to see a smile on their

mother's face for the first time or to

see their father Smile For the First

Time music and the role it played in

your

household and just in your environment

outside of yourself um I was wondering

as you're saying that is it all

something that created happiness in

others when you were young that you saw

like your your family or your yeah um

before we moved uh uh to to my

grandmother's place in the Eastern

Cape the structure of my family back

then

was my entire family lived in one house

or not entire but my father and his

brothers so there was about

four

families and that's where music was like

a thing you know one of my uncles my

father's

brother had a like a

small um called them ghetto blasters

yeah yeah so he was the music guy he

loved re he used to play re a lot that's

where I My First Love for re came from

like anything as a kid I I used to know

different Peter Tosh albums Bob Mary and

the Whalers and all that kind of music

and every now and then then it will be

the pop that was happening at the time

and he will take it out and all of us

will be out there and we will dance you

know uh that's that's my my ear

childhood memories with music is that in

that big family when it's hot and it's

summer and we're just all outside and he

plays the music and and now we dance

anything with with music you would find

me that's why I never knew what I would

do with it you know uh but I just knew I

wherever it is sometimes they will send

me to to the

shops and in the township sometimes

there will be like a big Coca-Cola truck

maybe they're promoting a new flavor and

it's parked in this they play music they

send me to buy bread and I don't come

back like literally cuz I'm just there

like I'm just listening to music you

know I don't leave Lally and I get into

trouble you know so wherever there was

music that's how I got into it cuz my

cousin who's also our neighbor him and

his friend had a mobile sound system so

they were doing weddings like graduation

parties and and so during the week he'll

have the sound system connected like

just small speaker and he play loud

music and I'll go there so I'll spend

days there and then I started like they

used to use like cassettes and and you

rewind with the

pan so that's how I started and I would

like learn and I was curious and then

they will take me to the day parties

then I'll be the opening DJ you know but

I was so curious

that I developed the style of playing

you know uh I was a little bit advanced

in

understanding tempos of the

songs and so I wouldn't just randomly

play I play songs that were close

together in Temple and so all of a

sudden the mixes were like almost

Flawless and people were like then I

became their main DJ you know by 145 I

was like their main DJ and the people

booking them would tell them bring that

black boy I like super dark as a kid

bring him you know and then I was more

cheer then I started collecting records

then I but 10 and which were my own and

they bring the system I plug more things

you know and then when I finish school

and I moved to another city back to

Devin where there was

more access to things and I I really got

into it so I was studying jazz music but

I was a DJ on the side and sometimes I

would bring tenta into the school Studio

you know um it was such a fascinating

thing for the Jaz students because we

were there like

learning Jazz scales and like the theory

of music and I'm here with my DJing

equipment you know at some point

actually while I was a jazz student and

a DJ I did a a classical

play like all three same time you know

because me and a friend of mine uh in

the hallway at school

because we were in the choir we were

singing one of the songs we we sang in

high school in the choir and one of the

school lecturers had us and she was

shocked because we were Jazz students

she was like wow you guys you know this

is classical music like you sound so

nice there's a play that's happening at

the playhouse called the Pirates of

penans if you like cool so we went we

auditioned we got the parts so we would

do chess studies after school we go

practice at the

playhouse and we went to perform we did

um I was opening the show like I was a

tener you know um just anything that had

to do with music so from from Jazz when

I was young sorry uh

re then I went through different stages

then there was a time where I was like

obsessed with like

fusion um the then gospel music then

classical music so and I didn't

understand what I was being prepared

for you know all these years I kept

being exposed to different types and I'm

a DJ so then my

taste varies based on understanding

these different genres that's why I was

able to in 2010 do a show with the 24

piece

Orchestra because 8,000 people yeah in

the stadium so course I was exposed to

this music and I knew knew where to

breach you know the Gap the 10th of

February pivotal day in your life yeah

tell me about that

day man 1990 yeah I was talking to to

someone about it cuz it's a story that

it was for years hard for me to share

you know and I'm in a better space now

I'm I'm able to talk about it

um Street Grand mother we at

home uh on the

10th which was like around 800 at night

and she was super strict um no one comes

out the house that late we were sitting

in the house I think after dinner we

hear like people singing outside we all

come out everyone I mean comes out to

see what's happening and there was

people singing there were a group of

people about to pass our house we run to

the crowd with my cousins you know we

were not allowed to but this was nice so

it wasn't a big thing even I mean for

her but my cousin my cousins went back I

didn't why music so I followed the crowd

and the

reason this was happening is because on

the 11th of

February Nelson Mandela was officially

coming out of jail after 27 years so

there was like jubilations around the

entire country this was happening in all

the major cities where people were like

we're going to stay up all night until

the morning you know uh of his release

so this crowd was going to a stadium

which is close to my

house

um that's where the the camping was

going to be the singing until the

morning in the stadium so they went on

the streets basically Gathering more

crowds and we were out close to the

stadium and just out of nowhere we just

had this

sound um and it was a car just came out

of nowhere lights off just rammed

through the crowd um so I was I was not

in the front but I was maybe like 20%

in and I just blacked

out um

and the people were screaming and when I

woke

up um there was fire you know people

were angry so basically this driver

Switched Off the

Lights to literally just kill people

with his car and um so they bent the car

well they bent the guy too and um they

burnt the guy yeah they pulled him out

the car and killed him yeah literally

and he stayed there for hours actually

without anyone coming for him cuz I

remember this happened around 4: in the

morning went to a hospital

around maybe 30 minutes later the cars

took us to hospital I came back from the

hospital around 78 he was still there

like not even covered his car he was

still lying there on the ground

uh that cost his life and someone else's

life who was also in the

crowd um so by that time I mean it's 7

in the morning I'm back from

hospital the announcement happens Nelson

Mandela is finally out of jail we're

watching this from TV I'm sitting on the

couch you know there's just chaos in the

country people are so happy this man is

finally

out and um

I was on the couch in pain you know uh

after the accident and I think what

really happened to me I don't think the

car reached to me I don't think the

car touched me I think the force of the

people that were in front because of the

impact they pushed so hard so what

happened is I dislocated my shoulder but

severely

I had no bruises no cards it just came

off meaning um my nerves that connect

the arm to the body were

snatched and being in a small town when

I went to the hospital no one knew what

to do so I'm there I'm holding my arm

like they don't know if it's broken they

don't know what to do with it you know

so they just gave me a sling and pain

tablets and I went back home but the

pain was couldn't stop and then um the

following day then I went to deran which

is the bigger city to go to like a

bigger

hospital where I stayed for three months

in the hospital you know and even there

they didn't know what to do one morning

they were like okay uh we figured it out

they put a cast so I'll have a cast for

like two weeks

but the damage was here but I was a kid

as well so I didn't understand you know

um so the injury is called braal plexis

which is um a damage of of nerves and

there's nothing you can do to fix damage

nerves they can only fix themselves so

over time um so they Tred different

things at some point I remember I was

being taken to like a

specialist to see if there was life on

my arm

so um because they were thinking of

amputating my arm so they put this

device that had

electricity to see if it's going to I'm

going to fill it and there was just like

probably like 5% of

life and he was like no we don't have to

do it over time the nerves will grow

back and that's what has happened you

know and as a kid I mean I was 14 it was

lifechanging you know um the things I

wouldn't I wasn't able to do uh then

activities there was just things I I

couldn't I was in a music class you know

um so I couldn't participate when on the

piano uh like lessons and we used to

play recorders and so I went through a

phase

where it really affected me and

and just over time I was like actually I

have a life to live when you say you

went through a phase where it really

affected you what what does that mean

specif like why me I mean I mean when

when you are born fine all of a sudden

and kids can be mean so the name calling

comes and you know cuz also I thought it

was going to pass and I would as a kid

even have dreams you know I wake up I'm

like oh I had a dream last night my hand

was working and I was doing this and you

know and so to me it was like maybe next

week maybe next month you know I'm going

to be fine again and so I went through a

lot of that you know and then eventually

acceptance I

okay this is what it is you know um I

have to leave I have to move on and I

kind of like stopped thinking about it

and just focused on

what's

next how do I learn

to um tie my shoes you know um or just

wake up and do everything without

calling for help that was the most

important thing for me because I didn't

want to feel sorry for myself that's the

most important thing where I was like I

need to learn how to not to call anyone

for

anything zero like then that was a big

thing for

me what's the what condition is your

left your left arm in now as we sit here

um it has gained probably like 40%

movement and

um let me put it this way when it

happened I would literally close my eyes

and I would know it

was okay so it was paralyzed at that

point yeah the whole arm I wouldn't know

whether it's here or here or here or you

know um so over time I've started

feeling things I can differentiate

between hot water and cold

water um and every now and then cuz

that's another thing I used to do

physiotherapy a lot and I was a kid and

I used to after school I go and I train

and that and that depressed me even more

because I was waiting for results

you know and I thought I'm training for

muscle that wasn't coming so I couldn't

see

anything and when I stopped I stopped

everything I stopped thinking about it I

stopped waiting for it to be better

acceptance yeah

so uh even now it's

like if I woke up and it was fine do I

even need it that's where I'm at like

doesn't really matter you know um I

think my life has turned out exactly how

it's supposed to this happened to you

when you were 14 but you didn't share it

with the world until 2017 in in a

Facebook post yeah because as an artist

I just felt like I did not want to be

seen as that

guy um

who has a disability you know uh where

it's like oh you know like

um I didn't want a PT party you know I

just wanted to

be understood and had like everyone else

you know so my first album came out in

2005 that's it I just worked on music

released it I used to DJ the way I do

and people think Sky play with his hand

in his pocket what's with that you know

like it looks cool but what's you know I

thought I thought you were just the

coolest

[ __ ] people like cuz the hand

thing in the pocket happened when I was

a kid and cuz I used to have the

slinging and even when I run with other

kids and I us to have to hold this hand

because it was just moving everywhere

and one day I was like I just put it in

the pocket and I was like damn this is

more functional than having a sling

and I never stopped you know and so it

wasn't even a thing like that was like

so deep it just happened when I was

young and I was like actually I feel

comfortable like this and over time it

became you know a thing cuz also being

um the introvert that I am it helps me

in not explaining myself cuz everyone

even now there's

[Music]

um there's things like like that um I'm

support you can buy them from Pharmacy I

have them so when I'm home I use that

and or when I have people at my house I

use it or when I swim and even people

who know me are like are you okay what

happened you know these were things I

was avoiding to be having to explain

myself all the time like you know um I

was like I sit and I look normal like

everyone else and there people promise

you in my life today who don't

know

and it's

fine did it make you work harder or have

to work harder to get to where you are

today

definitely definitely uh especially as a

DJ you know um because I just felt like

this thing was trying to rob me of this

one thing that I really really love and

I will not allow it you know um so it

made me in that sense not even in a

sense of who's going to employ me I'm

[ __ ] my life is a mess it was like if

there's one thing I'm not going to lose

is

music you know I won't stop I have to be

a DJ I have to I have to and I'm from a

the cassette era to the vinyl I mean how

do you take a vinyl out of a

final package with one hand and this

used to stress me and when I look at it

I'm like how will I become a

professional

DJ you know and it takes me not or it

took me not

thinking I just like did it you know

like I'm like this is one thing I want

to do

so I just went all the way I I would go

to school I remember there was a time

where I would spend at least two hours

every day

DJing for I didn't play for a club or

every day two hours of my time because I

and I used to say this like I just want

to be ready like one day when someone

says you're a DJ I'm must boldly say

yeah am you know

and I look now and I play sometimes I'm

like man you

good like

I look at I'm like wow you know because

I developed the style you know um of

playing that is my own based on

understanding myself and what I can do

you know

um I have a friend uh Sandra we grew up

with he's also a DJ

and when I started like back in the day

like really when I was spending time

practicing I I used to be really crazy

and he says this all the time that they

don't even know how crazy you are

because now I don't do I don't do

anything I just play less is more you

know I'm more experienced now but my

understanding of it is like on on a

different level you know but I'm at a

space where I'm like I don't have to

do you know that's where I'm at I think

I have to yeah yeah I don't have to

because I've been there it's like

learning the basic course and you go to

the advanced course you know uh go

Advanced

driving doesn't mean you're going to

come on the road and drive like you were

on the advanced driving school you know

it's just understanding and knowing like

when I look at this

thing it's part of me the deck yeah

quick word from one of my sponsors um

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piece of technology in my day-to-day

routine let me know what you think my

girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when

I was having a shower and she said to me

that she tried the C protein shake which

lives on my fridge over there and she

said it's amazing low calories you get

your 20 odd grams of protein you get

your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's

nutritionally complete in the protein

space there's lots of things but it's

hard to find something that is nice

especially when consumed just with water

and that is nutritionally complete and

that has about 100 calories in total

while also giving you your 20 grams of

protein if you haven't tried the heal

protein product do give it a try The

Salted Caramel one if you put put some

ice cubes in it and you put it in a

blender and you try it is as good as

pretty much any milkshake on the market

just mixed with water it's been a game

changer for me because I'm trying to

drop my calorie intake and I'm trying to

be a little bit more healthy with my

diet so this is where heuel fits in my

life thank you here for making a product

that I actually like The Salted Caramel

is my favorite I've got the banana one

here which is the one my girlfriend

likes but for me salted caramel is the

one when you were asked I think you you

were in your early 20s they asked you

you know I think you just was that

around the time You' done the Red Bull

um your your early 20s they asked you in

an interview where you were going to be

in two years oh man do you remember that

was a scary thing for me

um I remember that I'll never forget it

you know I don't think that was me

talking you know I

just um it

was it was Black

Coffee someone I wasn't yet you know um

cuz I I was never that guy you know I

didn't I didn't

have I don't want to insult my schools

and say I didn't have the right

education but you know I look at my kids

schools where they go to they learn

public speaking they know how to present

themselves and they know how to get

across a point a point across they know

how to

speak

and I'm I'm not from there everything

that I kind of like have I had to

figured it out myself you know and so

doing an interview then being asked this

question and at the worst time of my

life

then and give and and give that answer

because the question was where do you

see yourself and I

said they said in two years and I said

in five years just gave myself time I

said in five years I'm going to be one

of the most important

producers I don't know if I said of the

continent or the country country you

know which actually I'm proud of that

because it could have been worse you

know I could have said I want to be

number one I want to be the best

[ __ ] I would I would have said

something crazy like Pumpers you know my

answer was still like very modest and

but I was clear

about what I wanted you know uh but

after saying it I freaked out because

then I realized I need to own this I

need to own it and I need to then start

working towards it you know

and yeah then two years later which was

the

question I released my album and I won

my first award for best album you know

which was low

key then I was the best producer in the

genre in the country you know uh but I

think

I don't know like if it's the awards

that drive me

or just success

itself because it's the narrative that

oh he probably I get a grm like he wants

something more he wants more he wants

more and I don't think I look at things

like that I think I just know

that um I can do more than an award I

can do more than an achievement I can do

more

than you know I'm

capable that's it that's what I'm I'm

I'm I'm fighting for you know uh and

it's a little boy in me who was milking

cows who had no friends who is

like I can especially coming from where

I come

from and that's it it's never really

about I'm the smartest one and I'm I'm

going to the best one uh I'm the most

gifted one it's just like I started with

nothing I'm from like nowhere really

like so and I had nothing to

lose you know so I I threw myself in and

I just want to keep going when you look

back at the you know you said that in

your early 20s two years later your

album wins um wins that amazing award

your career continues to go to the Moon

um when you look back in in hindsight

with wisdom and say ah cuz I think it's

always in hindsight you go that's why I

got here you've talked about the

obsessiveness yeah I get that I get the

drive the hunger but as it relates to

the creativity and the the craftsmanship

and all the other things why you and why

not some other young you know South

African DJ

from the Eastern C uh I

think um it's what I think it's just

being in intentional

about what you want um the people I work

with from the

beginning there always just like the

goal is similar we we don't try

to I don't think we Chase number

one you know we just we we we just want

quality we strive for Quality we

understand the less is

more concept

um I've never and I've tweeted this once

in my country as well I've never gone

for like I want song of the

year those things scare me I just want

to release music that has the kind of

substance that I love why do those

things scare you because I just feel

like then you have to keep chasing the

number one so if I am this year then I

must be next year

otherwise then there's a deep that's

going to come with that if I'm not

so we do what we comfortable with

because what we comfortable with we can

do it again you know and improve it and

improve it so the goal is always the

same like not to try

and go

mainstream it's just be

comfortable you know you can wake me up

tomorrow and be like can you make a song

like

drive I'll be like I can probably better

then oh I can never make that song again

because wow you know it's in my space

you know everything is in my sound Bank

everything I work with is always around

you know and also I think now I'm

clearer as to who I am as an artist you

know I'm more of um

I'll

say 65%

DJ that's where all my energy is then

35%

um uh

producer having sat here with with Diplo

and other um artists Jesse J um the boys

from One Direction Li pay what I heard

over and over again from them is that

with success in music there becomes more

authority figures record labels Etc

telling you how you should sound and

telling you that if you sound like this

then you'll get a number one and it'll

be mainstream etc etc how important over

the course of your career as you look

back has it been to try and stay true to

yourself despite the temptation to fit

someone's that's an easy part for us you

know because first of all what am I

looking for like what I just explain to

you now as being a More DJ than a

producer so DJing pays our bills that's

our Core

Business

therefore that's where we're going to be

strongest and releasing music is the

second part of the

business um so it being the second part

part of the business means it's not the

main thing and so there's no pressure in

then following all the trends that come

and and I've been quite

fortunate uh in my career from the

beginning when I released my first

album I released it with the licensing

deal meaning I did it on my own and I

submitted you know to a label so no one

could

say we don't like number five take out

number seven don't you want to fix

number number two you know it was a Dar

and package

album and that's been the nature of my

production career

where the last album that I did was the

first album with the a label in the US

where there was

that um

Authority you know and it would mostly

come as we're not sure about this one

but what I

did I

separated my African

releases from the global

releases therefore when they're like

we're not sure I'm like it's okay I'll

release it in

Africa where I know it will make more

sense and also it fits the sound that

I'm doing that I wanted to you know so I

remember one of the songs I released was

a song called your eyes with the South

African artist called shik brilliant

song and they were

like

H released it and immediately after it

came out they changed their minds they

were like okay maybe not we'll we'll

also release the

song you know because we were not

following what they want you know and we

were cool with it you know um then after

I released an EP called music is King

which was purely purely for

like the African Market because even now

I I don't have a

label uh so I don't have to have these

conversations about what song I want to

do and how does it

sound um but still when I do my team

knows I want to separate the two Africa

must be on its own because one day I may

wake up and be like I've always been a

fan of cific I want to do a song with

Salif ker and when you do a song with

Salif ker being a gy winning

artist if you put that song on an album

that album might not be

nominated on

the dance electronic

album because the language is foreign

they will take that album and Sh it with

the world

music that means you're competing

against your African brothers and

sisters is which is what I really hate

so my point is I then separate the two

if I want to do a single with an African

artist I can do that if I want to do

like a Grammy quality kind of work I can

still do it but I'm fortunate not to

have those kind of Gatekeepers and

Authority that tell me no and I can

understand with the deep in them you

know they their structures are different

but we we fortunate to we we've structed

our things well how many shows so you

said 60% DJing how many shows do you do

in a busy

year I don't know

man um

IA this summer I think I did 21 just

alone all Saturdays at high right yeah

yeah I was there for two of them so yeah

just Saturdays alone in Visa like 21 of

them and subing then since May so

meaning

every uh

weekend Thursday Friday I'm somewhere

else Sunday I'm somewhere else every

weekend every weekend so Thursday Friday

Saturday and Sunday and Sunday yeah

sometimes you're going to be flying

around that's what we do yeah so before

high I'm somewhere else after high I'm

somewhere else like I had a show here on

a Sunday

yesterday um show I have a show on

Tuesday

tomorrow you know so sometimes it's

Tuesday sometimes it's Wednesdays but

every summer it's

like for every Saturday there's a

Thursday and a Friday and a Sunday

sometimes how many shows is that in a

year though if you were to add up is it

because I read that it was more than 150

sometimes no it is yeah

definitely that's a lot of

shows I think I you know I had I did my

little tour of this podcast and we did

nine and I was [ __ ] knacked

we did nine shows in two months and I

was like I need to wait another year

before I do that because of the

adrenaline and all the feelings and the

emotion and the performance and it's

late and whatever else how how no I

think at this point I mean

um this is what we do you know if you

look at um you made a reference about

Michael Jordan and coob can you imagine

like the hours they spend like to get to

that level you know um it becomes second

nature you know the first thing that

comes to mind is that little boy milking

cows I'm

like this is a blessing so nine

shows you must have made good money for

you to

complain I don't think we made any money

but we we gave you like I'm done

retiring but I I do Wonder because you

know I hear about the the kid that was

milking the cows with no electricity

back in back in South Africa and I you

know sometimes my fear is that that kid

is going to when that kid becomes an

adult he will make decisions which will

compromise other needs because he's so

driven to survive definitely at some

point as you said before I think we

started recording you've got to step out

of survival at some point and go live

that's why therapy is such an important

thing you know uh for us I mean I I I've

had so many different conversations with

South African

artists um some I've had conflict with

and you know when we meet and try to

solve the conflict I'm like let me tell

you what's going to help all of us is

therapy because how do I

go um from being that

boy and you know living in the same

Community where like no one even looked

at

me you know and you first forward I'm

coming back to that same Community like

in a Lamborghini and everyone wants a

picture and it's um it's a mind [ __ ]

just to me you know so you need to

really work on yourself when you cross

that line where it's like someone you

looked up

to uh uh as a kid you thought this guy

is so successful and you realize that

actually you are the successful one so

how is the shift then even in respecting

that person you know cuz then one is

like I'm the king now you know then

another is like you still the king you

did this before me I'm paying so much

respect to you so it's it's a very thin

line between uh um seeing yourself as a

king over everyone else or knowing you

are and still respecting everyone else

and that's the balance for me and it

took me such a long time and I'm still

battling and I'm working on it and I'm a

little bit better now in understanding

the difference between Nati and black

coffee what is the difference between

nauy and black coffee the little boy and

yourself as a DJ um black coffee has all

the

Privileges right like

it's a joke in my house and sometimes

when uh I want to go eat in a restaurant

and I I think late I'm like damn I need

to go and you know and I have I tell my

sister please book and then she's like

oh well not now it used to happen like

that she's like oh it's fully booked and

then I'm like no but just tell them

who's

calling and then she's like oh yeah yeah

table for two sorted you know those are

the packs of

those are black coffee packs where it's

like if na cold the restaurant is

full is if black coffee

called there's a seat for you there's a

table for you so na is a kid that grew

up going through magazine and seeing

model girls you know like thinking wow

if one day I can have a girlfriend like

this

right that's nauy and but na never had

access to that and never would given

where he comes from but black coffee

has access to that

so then sometimes n uses Black Coffee

you know

to to to satisfy nauy where it's like

instead of saying Hi I'm nauy

it's oh you black coffee and I'm like hm

yeah you understand so it's a it's two

different things to a point where even

where I live

now it's crazy but that's how it is

where I first bought myself a house this

is with my divorce story that's not even

final I moved out of the house so I'm

like life is going to be so dope you

know now that I'm a single guy and I

live in this apartment and and

toyss I go back and like wow and then

toys over I'm back home I'm sitting I'm

like this is my life you know like I

just the house I left I just finished

building now I live in an apartment like

a

student let me look for a house for

myself then I look for a house and I

found it so I have the house but now I'm

like it's a big house but it's lonely

cuz I'm from family I leave alone so I'm

like Mom don't don't you want to move

and come stay with me which I think it's

a noble thing you know cuz my mom had

like um heart problem so she moves and

then now I have the warmth of the family

right it's nice and I'm like but is this

my life like I live with my

mother so means I can't bring my friends

here like we can't have a little party

because my mom is in the other room then

it bothers me so much and I think and I

remember having a conversation with my

friend I'm like

man I love it but at the same time I

even told her you know I'm like I just

feel

like I this can't be it you know where

I'm like I'm about to finalize my

divorce and I live with my

mother you know and the most incredible

thing happened I get a phone call just

that week when it was stressing me so

much I get a phone call it's the number

I don't know I'm like yo and then this

guy's like uh my name is Michael I'm

your neighbor and we have this long

conversation on the phone and then he's

like by the

way I'm selling my house and I'm going

away we moving to another country

and just letting you know as a

neighbor and I was like oh thank you God

because it was like um a

solution so I bought the neighbor's

house and in my crazy head the

neighbor's house that's where my mom and

the

children are going to stay that's a

naughty

house right that's where you're going to

find me on the floor on the grass

playing with my children the next door

that's the black coffee house I want to

come to the Black Coffee

House you know but the thing is about

the black coffee house which is what

before we started recording you were

asking me what's on my mind and I was

telling you Legacy Legacy

Legacy I want to build black coffee

house as a like a black coffee house

that would be like a future black coffee

house okay not a current black coffee

house not current but it will be a

future this is where he used to live ah

okay you know so I'm I'm very much

intentional about the things I collect

the art on the wall um like everything

that I do I'm doing to create value in

the house you know to have Ste come to

this house and we take a picture by the

pool and it goes to the wall of of Fame

oh nice you know so tell me when you

know like creates this value out of it

you know any kind of friends that are

you know like unnown in the world that

come to visit we we create all the

memorabilia even even the suit I wore

the Grammys you know frame it and you

know s kept it and the shoes and you

know like that's their whole idea to

kind of like build um like a legacy

project for my kids who are living next

door you know in a normal setting where

uh they're not exposed to or

um their lives are normal you know you

know like having a day with the kids in

the pool and then Drake's walk Drake is

walking in you know like Steve B yeah

you know what I mean so have you that's

the difference between the between black

coffee and I'm just like taking it that

far where I'm understanding that they

different

Dynamics when you told me the story of

going from a divorce in a house to an

apartment Penthouse to a house with your

mother to then moving next door back in

on your own it sounded to me like

someone that was struggling to try and

have the best of both worlds continually

yeah

because in your own words you were told

that the best life was to be married

yeah tried that yeah you discovered that

for you it wasn't so you went to back to

the penthouse yeah which is where yeah

which I was like damn Bachelor single

we're about to yeah and then you're in

the penthouse you go [ __ ] I need to be

back in the house family environment

yeah and then you get the mother back in

and the mom comes in you go

[ __ ] actually

no um the day my divorce is signed how

do I

celebrate you know it can't be in front

of my mother you know so you're right uh

but remember it's it's all the

search that's what it is searching for

happiness and in the end I don't think

we're going to be able to find and

Define it what is your happiness it's

going to be

um it's not a

destination you know it's going to be

like um a series of different things you

know where boxes are ticked you know if

all those boxes ticked though are you

then happy you can't tick them

all cuz cuz life is is so long and we

keep discovering things to take you know

and they all have different meanings you

know uh which is where the the small

boys Journey end you know because if it

was the small boys boxes to tick by now

we will be

done you understand so there's boxes of

an adult like you're saying you live

here and then you extend and then you

know upstairs you keep and then you're

going to be like actually I need to buy

another building that's how it is but

but all these things they we're never

going to stop I often think that um I

was thinking there about advice and you

know a lot of that advice tends to come

from our parents but um I often think

that when we've come from a place of of

hardship and I just think generally I

think this a lot in my own life um

there's words that I wish

I I said or could say now to

my parents there's words that I wish I

could say to my um my mother my father

you spoke so lovingly at the beginning

of this conversation about the role that

your mother played in your

life is your mother still with us yes

she is y I spoke to her on my way here

she is

y are there any words that you found

difficult to say to

her um not anymore you know I love you

was one of

them uh because she it it was

never part of our

family as like an African family to have

that kind of formed and these kind of

conversations you know um even even uh

hugs are still a little bit awkward but

they still hugs because it's never been

their generation didn't do that you know

uh they would show you and you would

know your parents love

you the in the best way they they they

will do it you know and being a parent I

am so much

aware

of how I want to teach my kids to be

able to say it

and like randomly hug them uh because I

never you know had that growing up and

then in the end we are the ones who come

back and teach our parents you know no

matter how awward it gets you know teach

them to say and they then they learn

even though it's

like it's not something they know con

yeah we have a closing tradition on this

podcast where the last guest of asks a

question for the next guest they write

it in the book they don't know who

they're writing it

for the the question that was written

for you and it's funny that oh oh oh

yeah they've written a question for you

but they didn't know who they're writing

it for which is the most amazing thing

ever when you hear this

question what is your favorite

sound

laughter why

because people laugh when they are

happy and going back to what I said in

the beginning I think personally that's

what we searching for as it's a human

race we just looking for

happiness thank you thank you for being

so generous with your time thank you for

giving me some of the best nights of my

life thank you for um coming here

inspiring me thank you for your your

vulnerability which I know will help so

many people and thank you just for being

a creative inspiration for me as I said

I'm I'm trying to DJ at the moment I've

got my decks upstairs so um I I read

that you're looking for you know young

South African Talent

so come get me that's a South African

from bana south of Africa I know I know

I know but yeah thank you so much it's

um thank you man it's been a pleasure

thank you appreciate appreciate your the

invitation it was really I was nervous

about coming here you know like you know

open up and but it worked out well thank

you thanks quick one we have a brand new

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