it felt like life was meaningless I

would think to myself I hate this this

sucks I don't know what I want to do

with life anymore and that's sometimes

where the depression would kick in but I

didn't realize that the depression that

I was suffering from was untreated ADHD

depression and so I've learned rules now

for myself and for anyone out there if

you are suffering from this ask yourself

a few simple questions Mr Trevor Noah

the former host of The Daily Show he

gained a massive following for his

humorous yet incisive take on politics

and Society I was born to a black mother

and a white father in South Africa at a

time when it was illegal in the country

they were scared the police were going

to take me away and then my mother met

my stepfather and it became an unsafe

household your mother had been shot

point blank in the head by this man yeah

and from that day onwards Everything

Changes you arrive in America to pursue

your dream as being this comedian you

are very hardworking to say the least

which led to you being the host of The

Daily Show but it didn't go so well at

first it was absolutely terrible people

would just be like go back to where you

came from death threat it was really

hard but I persevered and I would get

home at 9:00 p.m. work until midnight

get back to the office at 7 the next day

and do it all over again and then The

Daily Show went on to become a smash hit

but was the cost of it I had made my

life about work and I had made

everything else secondary and to be

honest with you a lot of people are

doing this we've neglected connection

and I think we're experiencing a

generation of men in particular were not

just isolated but not practiced in the

art of connecting and it's affecting

Society now so those men that asked

struggling where do they need to start

this is a lesson that I've learned if

you're struggling with this so

you this has always blown my mind a

little bit 53% of you that listen to the

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[Music]

much Trevor what are the most important

things that I need to understand about

your earliest years to understand the

man that sits in front of me

today well that's that's a tough one

because I I feel like my perception of

what the most important things are or

may not be the most important

things I could say it would be my sense

of humor and then it might be where the

sense of humor comes from which might be

my family or my country it might be

which schools I went to it might be

where I've lived or where I've traveled

to it's a yeah it's it's one of those

you know if you ever try to break down a

food or or something that you consume

and you go like what is the most

important ingredient what are the

ingredients that really make it what it

is it's like is it the crunch is it the

assd is it the salt is it the fat is it

what what what is it I I don't know I I

genuinely don't if I knew then I would

be able to either create more of me or

or um or maybe like you know figure out

which parts I want to tweak but I

honestly don't know the answer to that

question I often think of uh everyone

that I meet but also myself through the

context of like a I guess a similar

analogy like a set of ingredients that

came together that were then put into an

oven and like right the heat was turned

on and we were we were baked not to say

that we can't be changed after that

moment but um what are those

ingredients so my mother South African

and HOSA woman uh my father's Swiss from

Switzerland but was living in South

Africa so those are those are the the

parental ingredients you know my

grandmother I think is a key ingredient

because I spent a lot of time with her

as a young child uh my grandfather was a

crazy funny man was by polar but we

didn't know at the time I think we knew

towards the end of his life but it made

him wildly entertaining

um yeah it's it's it's an interesting

and tough one you know because I because

I often

think as much as we're baked to what

you're

saying I think that we're baked but then

we are very

much a product of the people that we

then come into contact with you know so

I think of most people sort of like a

like a sponge cake like most cakes are

very basic most of them and then what

really makes them special is what the

Baker does to them afterwards you know

but the fundamental cake is is is pretty

much the same and I think people are

like that yeah there's there's certain

things you know like you the color of

our skin and tone of voice and all of

that but then I think it's everyone we

come into contact with that gives us the

icing that gives us the the shape that

gives us the the dynamic texture that

makes us who we are you know and so I I

I strangely enough I feel like it's all

of these people that I was lucky enough

or unlucky enough to bump into that that

gave me a little bit of of of that

texture and shape and I think that's the

same for everyone you know that's that's

probably why I'm so um so conscious of

choosing my friends because I I

think that's me actively choosing the

people who are going to keep shaping me

as as I as I live my

life I've seen you on TV I've seen you

all over the place over the last 10

years of my life but I had no idea of

your early context I had no idea and

it's funny because sometimes you kind of

see I don't know Domino 35 in the all

these dominoes that fall but those early

dominoes I think often lead a lot of

Clues as to the Domino 35 that we see on

oh yeah yeah definitely definitely so

for someone that might not know your

earliest

context like I

didn't what do they what should they

know to understand you so I mean you

know first of all I was I was born and

raised in South Africa right um I was

born in 1984 so that was you know six

years before paride ended born to a

black mother and a white father at a

time when it was illegal in the country

um and it was strangely unique you know

I guess because it was illegal you know

so so I grew up in a world where I

didn't see many people like me who had

my background I I saw some people who

looked similar to me but they had a

completely different background you know

South Africa's racial Dynamics are very

complicated and sometimes throw people

off especially like internationally you

know um um but yeah that I think that's

that's one of the you know that's that's

the beginning of me and and then I I

think you know I look at these

ingredients which which aren't

necessarily the best in in in in

choosing your starting points but then

there would there was there was a series

of of Lucky breaks you know the dominoes

as you say there was a series of Lucky

breaks so one one of those was atite

ends you know so apte ends when I'm 6

years old and I I always think to myself

about how much that changes my entire

life because if if a parts side let's

say a parts side went for 10 more years

then now I'm 16 and I I haven't been

able to go to the schools that I went to

because you know only white kids were

allowed to go to them and and you know

children of color black children in

South Africa were restricted from going

to the same schools and weren't allowed

to live in certain areas and your your

whole life was defined by the color of

your skin in and and so that becomes

like one of the first dominoes that I

didn't have anything to do with that

changes my life people that are growing

up today aren't aware of what the

apartheid is no no no I've had to

research as an adult to make sure I know

what it is I was born in '92 so for

anyone that doesn't know what it's like

to be

a child that has a a white father and a

black mother growing up in apartheid

South Africa where as it says on the

front of your book you're considered a

crime yeah because your father and

mother have different skin colors what

does that environment feel like

emotionally for you so I was

lucky I was lucky in that I think at

least on the surface I didn't feel it

you know because one of the most

important things I've learned from my

upbringing is a child's reality for the

most part is defined and created by

their parents or their caregivers you

know so I I didn't know that my world

was strange I didn't know that my mother

wasn't legally allowed to have me um you

know when when to to to understand the

apoide system I always try to break it

down for people you know people think of

like racism and they go like oh okay

it's racism and I'm like no it's it's a

it's a it's a much more Insidious system

that was designed to oppress People

based on the color of their skin so

where America just said this black and

and whites and if you had like one drop

of blood that was black you were black

and it was a very simplistic system the

aparte system was a was a culmination of

all of the worst ideas from around the

world in an around race you know so the

The Architects of AP parites explored

what the Australians did with the

Aboriginal people um they they explored

what the Dutch did that's where the word

aparte comes from um they they looked at

what the Germans did you know during

during um the the the the rule of the

Nazis in in Germany like Nazi Germany

they looked at they looked at every type

of racism including in the US you know

they they it's it's crazy how much

effort they put into doing such a

terrible thing I often joke with my

friends and I go if they put that amount

of effort into making a great country

South Africa probably would have been

like one of the most powerful countries

in the world by now because there was a

lot of efforts and it it's it's a genius

system but just in the wrong direction

um so what that meant for me was I could

I could be born by by my mother you know

I could be the seed of my father but I

couldn't live with him we couldn't live

with him we couldn't live together he

couldn't live in our areas I could you

know technically speaking my mother my

father and myself weren't allowed to

live in the same area that's that's how

granular the system was so I was

considered Superior to my mother and

then my father was cons considered

Superior to me you know and so when I

was really young for instance I'm still

I'm still an indoor kid and I think a

lot of that is because when I was young

when I was with my grandmother for

instance and my mom was working my grand

would lock me in the house I couldn't go

outside and play with the other kids I

would Escape now and again she'd always

tell me stories about how I would like

dig a hole under the gate to go and to

go and play with other kids in the

street but she was terrified and I

thought it was just because she was

strict and she loved me but it was

because she was scared the the police

were going to take me away if they found

me running around in Soto which was a

Township where only black people were

supposed to be and so in the apartheid

system this skin color wasn't considered

black it didn't your culture didn't

matter all that mattered was your shade

and and that was instrumental in keeping

people keeping a majority as broken up

as possible to ensure that they were

oppressing many minorities as opposed to

one majority of people so it's it's

really complicated I mean and you know

you've read up on it but it's it's a

it's an infinitely complex system around

a a ridiculous idea so you weren't

allowed to be seen in public with your

mother no no no no not at all and you

weren't allowed to be seen in public

with your father no no my mom so when I

when I go out in public with my mom she

would she would I I don't even know

where she came up with this but she

would act like she was supposed to be

with me but not related to me you know

so she would um she would dress up as uh

you know everyone has different words

for these in different countries but

like nanny maid domestic worker and she

would just act like she's my caretaker

you know so it would look like my

parents I guess have hired her to look

after me and so that's how she'd move

seamlessly with me in the streets

because nobody would suspect it um

couldn't be with my father at all in

public that was that was just out of the

question a second ago you said you

didn't feel this environment or at least

you didn't feel these things to some

degree I I sat with a guy called Gabel

mate I don't know if you of course yeah

yeah and one of the things Gabel talked

to me about from his early childhood was

this moment when he was sh where because

his he was um Jewish his I believe he's

Jewish his mother had to give him up

just for a couple of days two or three

days because the the Nazis were going to

come and take her away so she thought to

save him I'll give him give him up it

turned out she was okay so she went back

and got him now he cites that moment of

trauma of losing his mother just for a

little while as being really pivotal to

his life but also in the development of

his ADHD right and a lot of his sort of

internalized shame and when he said that

to me I was quite shocked that even a

couple of days away from a parent a

subtle feeling of neglect at such such a

young age he cites as sort of putting

shame into his soul but also being

responsible for some of his ADHD in the

context that he thinks of ADHD as being

this thing where we learn because our

environment is so externally stressful

we start to avert our attention to to

other things sometimes now the reason I

say this is because it highlighted to me

the chance and the

probability that maybe we might not feel

it consciously but maybe subconsciously

at a deeper level these things shape us

in a way that's harder to spot I I

wouldn't disagree with that um I'm sure

I'm sure his instance was probably

harder if he a remembers it and then B

is separated from his mother MH you know

I I I'm not an expert in the field but I

I think your mom holds a very different

place in your life as a child you know I

I I think we're wired that way and then

I was lucky in that I was I was seeing

my dad does does that make sense so so

being in public with a parent is is is

not really something of consequence if

there isn't that in the world you know

and so when I when I think of like how

we shape realities I had no other

reality to compare it to so it's not

like I was seeing other kids thinking oh

wow I'm I'm left out there were many

other kids you know even when I talk

about my story I always say to people

don't think of this as a as a as a like

a unique and and special story it's just

that I happened to be in a place where

people talk to me about it but I am but

one story of many others I knew many

kids whose dads had been killed by the

police or had been arrested by their

aparts side police or had left into

Exile and so they couldn't be with their

dads for other reasons so I in a weird

way I used to think I was like the lucky

kid I I knew my dad you know my Dad

loved me and I I would see this man and

it was so like the the the feeling of

that I think at that age maybe wasn't

wasn't apparent for me I'm I'm sure I've

been more affected by things that

happened in my latter years because I

was more aware of them but as a child

I'm just having a good time I'm spending

time with my mom I'm never not seeing

her and if I'm not with her I'm with my

grandmother which is again normal you

know in many cultures all over the world

but there was never a moment where I I'm

I'm separated from this person because

of the system and she was brilliant to

figure out how to do that and so I

that's why I say I don't I don't

disagree with what you're saying but I

think everything affects us and

everything can be thought to affect us

negatively and positively and you know I

I've yet to meet a human being who's had

a perfect existence so I'm very careful

to then sort of like point to everything

as the reason for because everything is

already the reason for which does that

make sense sense yeah yeah your mother

and your father were they in love in

your view oh yeah definitely definitely

she eventually married someone else yeah

she eventually Mar she well she she was

never married to my dad so okay they

couldn't get married because of the laws

and then I think afterwards my mom was

just like well we we are where we are

and then I think there was a there was a

seminal moment in their lives you know

where she became very religious and my

dad was not at all and my mom was like

well I'm going down a religious path and

and so this is this is my new life you

know and he and he was called Abel yeah

that's that's my stepfather your

stepfather

yeah I read about the relationship your

mother had with him and it was uh it

seemed to be very complicated at times

violent relationship yeah yeah it really

was do do you understand what that means

at that

age it's you know it's it's tough it's

tough to process because I don't even

think

I fully know what it means at this age

you know like love um violence domestic

abuse these are things that I don't

think anyone fully comprehends even when

I talk to like therapists about it it's

always like a it's a theoretical

understanding it's not it's not a fact

it's like we think that this and this

could be because and this could cause

and therefore that could be you know and

and and we have Brilliant Minds who

think on what this does and how it

creates and you know but man I you know

I I I will never take for granted what

it was like you know for myself and for

any other kid who's experienced it

growing up in a home with there domestic

violence like it's it's one of the worst

things you experience

because you live in a world where your

parents are like the president in a

weird way you know when you're a child

your pres your your parents are the most

powerful beings you know in your head no

one is more powerful than them and if

you ever have the the you know the

terrible Fortune of seeing your parents

most most times your mother being in a

position where she's being violently

harmed I

mean it it rocks your fundamental

understanding of what the world is you

know

so for me I I mean that's something I

still deal with in therapy today you

know because I I'm I'm always trying to

chip away and trying to

understand what is still on me and and

what what is callous that I don't wish

to be and and then what is too soft or

what is like I'm always I'm always

trying to understand it because I I

don't think there's one concrete um

answer for what the experience does to

you is there anything still on you oh

definitely I think I think there always

will be you know

because you know I didn't see ever see

that in my home but I can only imagine

how much that would have exacerbated my

further um my early perception of what a

relationship and what love means to some

degree so so you see like my my

curiosity my question to you then is

like when you go you didn't experience

it I go but what did you experience and

this is this is the weird thing about

the mind right is I find whenever

whenever I speak to I mean like

brilliant thinkers and you know

the therapists and and you know

psychologists and all these people what

I find fascinating is is how sometimes

your traumas or your perception of your

traumas is is directly proportional to

what you lived in your in your life so

in a weird way you might have the exact

same experience that I have it's just

that mine might have been more physical

does that make sense 100% it's an

interpretation right it's it's I'm I'm

always fascinated by that like by how I

can connect with somebody

where in their house it was it was more

about like fighting and bickering and

people saying things to each other and

and shouting and I didn't grow up in

that kind of house but then I've met

people who did and we seem to be kindred

spirits because we've both both

experienced fundamentally an unsafe

household you know the the feeling of an

unsafe household and I think that's

something that that many adults are

still dealing with or not dealing with

but as a child I you know I don't think

we're sitting there with a little

notepad going well nothing physical

happened here and that was only words

and this was because of stress and no

we're just experiencing an unsafe

environment I only really learn about

myself um in this context through my

triggers as an adult and then kind of

matching the cards there's this game

where you like match the cards together

and go snap and it was you know me

pursuing a young lady the young lady

turning to me after me trying to get her

to date me for like 3 years and be like

let's be in a relationship and then the

feeling I got matched the feeling I had

when I was like six or seven and I

watched my mother screaming in my

father's face I was like and that

happened enough times me avoiding

romantic relationships oh that's

fascinating rejecting everyone the on

the minute of connection the minute

where we were about to form a

relationship rejecting oh this is that

feeling from my childhood they're the

same how did you how did you match them

because the way I would described the

feeling was impending prison time

time of my life I've seen like prison

time was watching my father sit there

passively as as screamed at and thinking

why doesn't this guy leave why does he

why is he why is he with her and so

that's kind of where I formed the

hypothesis and once I had something to

aim at I could resolve it and I resolved

it wow but I I don't know no that's

interest you see yeah on on my side it

was the other way around it's like I

think

you know I I think when I looked at how

I saw relationships and love in that way

it was like I I I never saw it as like a

prison but in a in a in a similar way I

think you know in a way that sort of

informed my avoidance it was it was more

me realizing I don't have an opportunity

or I'll never have an opportunity to

hurt you if I don't fully give to you

you know what I mean so it was a that

that's why I say we can be in the same

boat but realize we have we have

different tickets that brought us here

you know the the outcome is the same but

we sort of end up in the same place and

so in my world I'm without a doubt um

think that seeing a relationship where

somebody was hurt because they allowed

somebody into their lives affected my

ability to allow people into my lives

because I was like oh if if that happens

to me then what what happens are you a

prisoner like are you are you subject

and and and you grow up in a world where

people just don't seem to take it

seriously you know this is still a

problem in South Africa till this day I

mean this is a problem in many countries

around the world I was in uh where was I

recently I was in Amsterdam recently and

I saw they had this huge campaign around

femicide and gender based violence and

it's it's it's it's a problem all over

the world where people sort of don't

take it seriously you know they call it

a crime of passion you know a woman goes

to the police and says you know my

husband beat me and they go like oh but

what but what did you do this is between

you and your husband go home sort it out

figure the whole thing out and um I

think that definitely left me as a child

even though as a child looking at the

world going like oh wow okay so the

world thinks this is normal then you

know then that that means the world

won't keep me safe either does does that

make

sense you went through something that

again really really horrific and you got

a phone call one day that your mother

had been shot by this man yeah and he

she'd been been shot point blank in the

head by this man yeah how old were you

then 20s when this

happened let me think that no I was in

my I was closer to my 30s because my

younger brother was old enough is to

drive but shouldn't have been able to

drive so maybe he was like 14 so yeah

maybe I'm like 24 at the time somewhere

there 24 you get a phone call from him

your younger brother yeah saying mom's

been shot

what goes through your head in that

moment when you get a call like

that what went through my head was I

knew I knew exactly I knew exactly who

did it I knew what had happened I like

it's it's you know one of the

worst things that comes with growing up

in a in a house of domestic abuse and a

house where you're dealing with an

alcoholic is you become hyper sensitive

and you become really good at at predic

things you know

so I mean my friends know till this day

like I'll be the kind of person I'll

tell you when we should leave a party

before a fight breaks out I'm never

around for the fight because I can I can

feel it I can feel energy I can feel and

not like woo woo like no I just start

noticing people are not having as much

fun as they were 20 minutes ago and a

few of the guys are stepping on each

other and the ratio in the room has

gotten bad and the music's not

connecting with people I'll just I'll be

like it's time to leave you know and I I

think that from what I've understood in

in in you know in therapy and and

working with people who do the research

around this is children start to develop

an an acute sense it's like a spidey

sense you know you you hear the sound of

a car and you know which car is bringing

danger to the

house you know I would know by the

sounds of of the footsteps whether or

not my stepfather was sober or

drunk just by his footsteps I Knew by

the way he would close or open a door I

would know whether to be on edge or not

and

so when I got that call everything in me

let go like it was it was one of the

most still is it's like a painful memory

you know is is

like the first thought I had was damn it

it it happened I thought it would but

not like this but it it it happened

it happened

yeah what is the cost you know because

you described that spidey sense it

almost sounds like a gift and the

interesting thing to some degree it can

be a gift I think every gift is a curse

and I think every curse is a gift and

what is the curse that comes with the

gift so the curse that comes with it

is I exist in a space where I am too

aware of how other people feel you know

and and as I've come to understand it

what happens to a lot of children who

are in abusive households is they

develop their hyper sensitivity as a

tool to protect the parent because they

start in the same way you were saying

with your dad why is he just sitting

here what happens in in a household of

domestic abuse is a child goes oh my

parent does not know when danger is is

impending and so I then need to be on

alert for them because if if they don't

know then I need to be alert and if I'm

alert I can keep everybody safe and so

you you develop that acute sense you

develop you know your nervous system

doesn't doesn't rest I would sit in a

room and I would I could feel the people

and and I still have that I have to like

I now have to practice letting that go

and

so part of it is is probably why I'm a

good comedian but it's like it's like

learning when I want to use it and when

I don't so learning when to ignore it

did you have a choice yeah yeah you do

you definitely do you know I think

emotions you don't really have a choice

about your emotions most of the time but

you do you do choose how you react or or

how it affects you and so what I'll try

and do is genuinely sometimes I'll be

even in a conversation I I practice it

when it's low stakes I'll be with

friends and I can feel the conversation

getting heated and I can feel someone's

going to say something that'll hurt

somebody else and then what I'll

practice doing is just keeping quiet and

breathing whereas what I used to do was

I would jump in immediately I would jump

I would I would interrupt I interrupt

interrupt you know and I'll be like be

oh did you guys see the and I would

diffuse and I'd find a way and I was

very good at it I still am but now I'll

just breathe and I'll be like well let's

see where this goes I know my friends

are not going to hit each other but I

now breathe and go like it's not my job

to protect everybody um and so I just

try and breathe through the feeling and

see how it turns out sometimes I even do

it as a game to see if I am right

because sometimes you're predicting what

one of the outcomes and it may not be

the outcome you know and and I I then

trust that they can also resolve things

themselves and that's probably one of

the hardest things is as a

child because as you said you're not

understanding how your father's a

prisoner on this chair getting berated

and I as a child am going I don't

understand why my mother doesn't

understand the danger why doesn't she

leave and and why why is she even

getting into a conversation with this

man he's not

sober why is this happening many

children experience this and then you

you then go this person cannot protect

themselves so I have to do it for them

and how do did you try and do

that sometimes I would I would I would

just I just disrupt anything you know I

would I could disrupt a conversation I

could I could find a way to to you know

sort of like um distracting yeah you

know like like Chris Pratt with those

with those Raptors in Jurassic Park just

find a way to like Snap and you know

just pull

attention um find ways

to it it sounds ridiculous but literally

it was it was me just thinking of ways

you know do you close a door that then

has to be open that then alerts more

people to the presence of somebody or or

do you turn the TV up in this way or do

you say something to him so that he you

know his mood might shift in a certain

way do you you know all of all of these

things I I was I was thinking of and

this is me thinking of these things at

the age of let's say 9 10 11 12 you know

all the way through and does it ever go

the other way where you're also trying

to cheer up your mother at all or take

care of her spirits or no no

um I think my mother's my mother's gift

and and curse has always been the fact

that her religion has has powered her

through you know and if you know

somebody who's very religious you'll

know that their connection with God and

their purpose pushes them through you

know obstacles that most human beings

would never be able to survive never

never never so there was never like

despair on the other side that I could

feel from my mom I never felt like I had

to like cheer her up you know um the

house definitely descended into like a

like a doom and you you could feel there

was a there was a palpable sense of

tension post what had happened that day

you you presumably rushed to the

hospital yeah um you arrived there

you speak to doctors I imagine yeah did

you speak to him did you did you tell

the police about him did you call yeah

yeah yeah yeah I mean this is all

happening in the chaos and the Panic you

called him I don't remember if I called

him or if he called I I don't remember

how it happened did you speak to him

after this event

no

no and then you find out that there's

been a bit of a miracle I guess because

the the bullet has missed all of the

Fatal parts of that

I mean find out is a it's it's it's such

a

um it's such a drawn out feeling and

moment because you know time is weird in

that it stands still when you're

experiencing the worst of it and it it

flies when it's the best of its and so

that that moment it even when you say

the word you you to find out or go like

no that it what felt like forever was us

waiting for the inevitable news

that you know my mom our mom was dead

like that that seemed like the the

conclusion I mean I've watched movies

you've watched movies someone gets shot

in the head and it's over you know so

that was a yeah that that was me

grieving it's a very strange experience

to have

because I grieved

somebody I grieved the loss of my mother

but then she didn't die but I completely

grieved her as if she was gone like I I

genu I cried because she was gone I

didn't cry because she was hurt I didn't

I was like it's over it's finished every

thought ran through my head I was like

wow I'm raising my brothers now I was

like okay I guess now I'm the head of

the household it's amazing like my brain

spun in every day I was already now

thinking 10 years ahead I was like oh

man okay where where are we living what

are we doing how's this going to work

and you know where's my little brother

and what do I tell him and how do I you

know in that moment you you must you're

so interesting because you get to see

in the most horrific way the fragility

of the most important relationship of

your in your life to come out the other

side and realize how fragile that

because you know you talked about our

parents almost being these like

presidents you also live under the

assumption that they're always kind of

going to be there yeah and in that

moment you got to see that that's not

that's not guaranteed yeah and that

curse ended up being one of my greatest

gifts because from that day onwards I

have never seen my mother the same way

you know I I've

never like I I every time I look at her

I'm I'm grateful that she exists every

time I I hold her I like I hold her like

it's the last time I she even like

pushes me off sometimes like I I hug her

hard hug her hard and I hug her for long

and I think this is extended to other

people in my world to be honest with you

is I I I'm very cognizant of the fact

that this thing is is ephemeral I don't

know when it'll when it'll disappear so

it has made me more appreciative of that

I don't assume you know I I I hope and I

think there's a possibility that we will

meet again you know what does they say

in Arabic

inshallah God willing I I don't know and

it was a bit of a miracle I was reading

because you're right yeah no it was in

movies you hear someone get shots in

shot in the head you never hear that

they survive a bullet to their head yeah

whereas in your mother's case she

survived it by

some yeah that that's where we have to

go miracle and that's where we we still

joke till this day you know because

because my mom's very religious I grew

up very religious but very skeptical of

of religion or anything really and I was

taught to question ironically by my

mother you know my mother taught me to

question um she still questions things

she doesn't she doesn't like follow

blindly so so I think

I I was I was in this position and I

think many of us were

where I'm I'm seeing what I think is is

is the end the doctors are saying to me

we we're going to try what we can but it

looks terrible and then we find out that

the bullet entered the back of her skull

went through her head and then exited it

like it it shattered it went it

basically missed the bottom of the brain

mhm you know went went past the

um you know the spinal cord all the way

through and then hit her cheek bone

which then deflected the bullet and then

went out of her nose so it like cut off

a little piece of her nose but the exit

wound wasn't as bad as it could have

been and yeah and they the doctors

couldn't do anything so there was no

brain surgery there was no opening of it

it was just stopping bleeding closing

wounds and now

praying and and the doctor was the one

who said miracle and he he said I he

said I hate this word because I'm a man

of science and I'm I'm a doctor he said

but the this was a miracle said this

shouldn't have happened like this and

then my mom was like yeah of course of

course it's a miracle and of course this

is how it was going to happen she like

you know my my Lord protects me

so he didn't go to prison no no I

didn't H how how does how does that so

in South Africa um I don't think it's

Unique to South Africa as well you know

I've when I've traveled to other African

countries I've I've learned this is

unfortunately

true the crime that a man commits

against his wife or his partner isn't

given the same validity as if it were

committed against a

stranger you know the court system

doesn't treat it the same the the law is

somehow not applied with with the same

level of ferocity as if it were somebody

else and so in this instance you know

they they basically ruled something to

the effect of like oh it was his first

offense and uh you know would he repeat

it or not and it was but it just it was

it's it's a failing of the justice

system that has meant that many women in

South Africa and other parts of the

world don't feel like justice gets

served you know you you see it time and

time again um you see it in the US all

the time unfortunately you know you'll

see man kills wife or wife and family

and themselves

possibly and the case just isn't treated

with the same it's always seen as like

there like a oh ah that something went

wrong or in a in you know in a tragic

love affair it's it's always it's always

labeled like that and I think that's

affected our ability in society to

um yeah I think to treat it the way we

should when you described the miracle

that that bullet traveled from the back

of your mother's head through through

her her head and then out her nose it

made me think about what we said at the

start of the conversation about dominoes

and how tight in this case millimeters

change the course of your life because

as you say the responsibilities you

would have then had to assume you see

the life you would Everything Changes by

millimeters yeah everything changes I

probably don't move to America I don't

explore the world in the same way I I

take on a whole different role in my

life it everything changes

what about anger towards him towards

Abel oh geez that yeah that's that's

been a tough one for me because I I

because I experienced every emotion you

know I I talk about it in my book like I

I've experienced every emotion because I

mean fear was the first

one the idea that this person could take

away you know the life of of someone who

arguably I loveed the

most

um then like rage helplessness um

even even like shame feeling like I

didn't protect her like I because I knew

from the beginning you know I IAL

literally IAL WR writes about this in

the book my grandmother would tell us

stories of how cuz she had the best

memory in the family she would tell us

stories of how when I was young when my

mom first met my stepdad she like I was

I was saying to the family I was like

this guy's great and everything but I

don't think this is a good idea I don't

think he's a good man I don't think we

should trust him I like I was saying

this as a child

you know and and the the one thing that

I think confuses people sometime

sometimes when it comes to domestic

abuse is that we we think of it as a

binary you know so people go like how

can these bad men live these lives but

they don't we don't realize

that often times the moment of bad is a

is a you know is is the the

explosion but everything around it is

charisma and charm and and and jokes and

you know and I laughed with this man

most of my life you know had some of my

favorite experiences with him as a human

being when he was wonderful he was the

most wonderful human being you'd ever

meet and it it took me a while to to

understand how

to um how to consolidate those ideas how

how to you know how to resolve the fact

that somebody who you love someone who

treated you with with with with respect

and and joy in in some moments

was also the person who brought you the

most pain you know um so I definitely

anger was like a big one for me I I I I

thought everything anger at myself anger

at my mom for for staying to to the

point that that could happen anger at

him anger at the system for not

protecting anger just like just

everywhere and then anger dipping into

pain and anguish and then you know

crying it out and then being angry again

and then being scared and then just just

going through waves and waves and waves

of that um and so that that was a lot of

my time in

therapy and a lot of my time having

conversations with my mom you know and

my mom would always always say to me

she'd be like you know over time you

learn to forgive and I was like I don't

think I could ever forgive and she was

like yeah she's like but you know

forgiving doesn't mean

forgetting it means letting go of the

thing that the person is holding of you

as opposed to you know you it's not you

letting them into your life it's not

it's just going like yeah that happened

I feel for them I understand many of the

things that made them do what they did

and then trying to let go of that that

that anger that's like burning inside

you that rage um and I'm glad my mom did

that because in the years since I've you

know I've spent more time reading about

domestic abuse and learning about

domestic abuse and speaking to experts

about it but unfortunately there's

there's a reason there's the Vicious

Cycle you know a lot of young boys who

grow up in homes where their moms are

abused grow up to then become abusers

themselves even though they hated the

very idea of what they were

experiencing um and so I to your point I

think it's because of that now un

unreleased and unrealized anger that

they didn't get to express when they

were children because they weren't safe

and and then now at some point it comes

out of them and so I I I genuinely had

to deal with that I had to even accept

the idea that I was as angry as I was

angry and helpless which is a Terri

combination for a human being to

experience have you forgiven him I think

in moments yes I think I I have I think

the the the levels of my forgiveness

won't reach my mom's because she was in

love with him you know to me this was

still a person who came into my life you

know he's not my biological father so I

think my I don't think I I've ever

reached like the level of like pure like

I forgive you but I do understand you

know I think I understand a lot of it um

I think I I think I feel sorry for him I

think I

um yeah I've learned to come to terms

with it but like pure forgiveness I'd be

lying to you if I'm like yeah I've

forgiven I'm like no I I think so

sometimes and then other times I go like

no actually actually I don't that

experience has left fingerprints on you

in some way oh definitely and how do

those fingerprints still show up today

in your day-to-day life in your

profession

oh I I wouldn't I wouldn't know the

answer to that

question

because because the strange thing again

I think about the mind is

that the things that affect

us sometimes may not be the things that

are as obvious to us as we may

think you

know you can get into a car

accident and experience an Ute trauma

that you and you know how this affects

you and you'll be shocked that many of

the other things you're dealing with in

your life where you're struggling aren't

actually from that car accident they're

from like the minute moments in your

life where somebody rejected you um you

know you weren't chosen to play on on a

team as a kid um you failed a test you

you were bullied you and and I I don't

say this like dismissively I I say it

cautiously I go like oh I I I I would be

careful to put all of it on that moment

because in in a weird way that moment

moment was contained MH you know it came

with many other other instances but but

yeah as I've sat and explored my my

myself and my brain and my my mind in

therapy I've realized that some of the

things that you think will affect you

the most might not they might stay in

that in that world and then there's all

these other things that affect you way

more than than you would ever think they

even have the right to so I I wouldn't

know to be honest with you I wouldn't be

able to say to you oh I'm like this

because of that or I'm like that because

of that no I do think appreciate people

more you know I um I'm I'm very present

when I'm with my loved

ones

um yeah but other than that I I I

couldn't give you a concrete answer that

would be that would be genuine you said

something about young men struggling

which is um came to mind as you're

talking about you being that young man

who seemed to be quite confused with a a

variety of emotions and

um less experience about what the

correct Outlets were for those emotions

you said recently in fact one of the big

things I've been worried about recently

is young men and how angry they've

become how alone they've become how

isolated they've become and then

ironically how they've turned the anger

isolation into a community there's a

couple of words there that seemed to fit

the shoe that would go on your foot

anger

isolation um as a Young

Man

loneliness C can you relate to to what

young men are going through in the sort

of modern world today because the stats

on young men is are quite shocking yeah

this the mental health stats the suicide

suicidality stats the depression stats

the stats around

purposelessness and I wondered to know

how you're looking at young men today I

get asked all the time by people that

listen to the show they say they've got

a young son and the Sun is struggling

they don't know who they are where they

belong with their purposes how to make

friends is a big

one how what what are you seeing when

you look out into the world the state of

young men so

I think I can empathize with a lot of it

and I think I can relate to some of it

but on my side you know other than the

anger let's say I wasn't isolated I

didn't feel isolated at all I because

because I got to play with other kids

and because I was with other kids and

because I had my cousins and everybody I

never felt isolated you know so even

when I was talking to you about my

grandmother I think you used isolated

but I didn't because I genuinely never

perceived it as that because I was in

the home with people it's just they were

Granny's so do you get what I'm saying

so I didn't feel like isolated in that

way um definitely felt like an outsider

though which is a different feeling

that's adjacent I think it occupies the

same lexical field but it isn't isn't

the exact same thing you know because

isolation I think can come with it like

a a certain Solitude and and certain you

know a feeling of like knowing that you

are in this thing alone because you are

in this thing alone but then being an

outside is a different you know it's

it's a different type of torture and I

think that's maybe what a lot of men are

experiencing that I can relate to I

think for a long time we've lived in a

world where we've told people what

they're supposed to do how they're

supposed to do it and it was sort of

easily realized right and now I'm not

I'm not a I'm not a historian I don't

know every you know history that we've

gone through but from the little that

I've read and and from from the the

historians that I have spoken into you

know Society goes in these waves and we

move through these waves and I think we

shouldn't take for granted now that

there was a whole generation of young

men who were given a purpose by War a

lot of war and war is one of the most

powerful thrusts of purpose that a

nation will ever experience young men

are told what they're supposed to be

doing your country needs you you need to

go and fight young man you need to

protect this country and you're like I

need to protect this country now even if

you don't want to dodge the draft you've

been given a a purpose in a strange way

even if you you're like I'm anti-war now

you have a purpose your purpose is to be

against the war your purpose is to

oppose the war your purpose is to spread

love and peace the other person's

purpose is to survive the war another

person's purpose is to win at the war

but you have a purpose and that purpose

is powerful and it propels Nations

forward you know and then you enter into

a period of what we would argue is

relative peace and I say relative

because there are many parts of the

world where there're just like these

constant chronic Wars that are waging

but for most people what are you what

are you doing you know you're sitting in

a world where there is no draft and

there there is no imminent warn it's

it's a choice now do you want to go to

the military or do you not and you don't

have to and and then

also things aren't just given to you you

know you before when your parents were

like go get a job it meant there was a

job to

get you know if your parents like go get

a job you you you you could it was

almost harder to not get job back in the

day than it is now in a strange way

because like it was just like this thing

you do you know it was doing I sweep I

clean I you know I collect I fix I it

was it was so simple and I think now

we're living in a world where many young

men are are are

experiencing a

purposelessness because it's sort of

like not laid out in any way shape or

form and I think we've created such a

narrow a narrow scope of what people can

do or can't do or you know like we've

rewarded so few things that I think

we've we've exacerbated the problem you

know gone all the times when being a

painter a philosopher a you know some

sort of artism is like celebrated in

that way you know gone on the days where

skills are passed down from generation

to generation and it it seems like that

that's that's less and less becoming a

thing and I from from from what I've

been told a lot of it can be tracked

back to like industrialization and this

consolidation of of um

manufacturing you know so an interesting

point of this you were talking was is

because more women now are graduating

with college degrees and because of the

equality movement that's that men and

women now are both in the workforce at

high level

positions I mean even in that there's

going to be less jobs available for

those men who would clearly before in

the past have much yeah and also this is

really interesting thing that lady was

talking to about my podcast where she

said that um there's still a stigma in

society that a man is to be the provider

yes but in a world where they're less

able to get those top jobs to provide

and women are earning more which no

one's got an issue with at all um there

no one not no one yeah yeah some people

have an issue with that that's true yes

I don't have an issue I don't think you

do but um but it they were referring to

it as the you could say the short man

problem or the T tall girl problem huh

effectively they were saying that women

want to date up and to the right which

has been shown in the surveys but

there's less people up to the right now

and so and there was another survey that

said 70 or 80% of women want their

husband to be a provider but math the

math doesn't math here because there

isn't that many men up there anymore so

and when you look at the dating stats

the sex stats the age in which men lose

their virginity now the amount of men

that haven't had sex in the last year it

effectively looks like just the top 10%

of men are having all the fun and the

50% have been right disenfranchised by

the system yeah but I so I I I I think

about this all the time and I you know I

I try and spend as much time reading

thinking and discussing with people who

are far more brilliant than I'll ever be

and what I've come to realize is we may

now be

experiencing a culmination of The

Dominoes you know we're experiencing The

Dominoes of a declining middle class and

govern around the world no longer

propping up the middle class because

anyone who's real about economics knows

that like the middle class is an

invented thing really and it's

governments actively saying we're going

to create it right so as that has

declined over time and people have sort

of created this illusion that no

everyone can just get there on their own

Merit and like nothing needs to be

created for you we've seen the middle

class decline what happens then is

there's a gap you know between the rich

and the poor then there's another Domino

that falls and it's like the

consolidation of wealth you know these

Mega corporations around the world that

find ways to not pay taxes that find

ways to pay like slave wages to some

people and then sell you a cheap product

and then give you credit that you

shouldn't get and then put you in a debt

cycle that you shouldn't be in and

that's one Domino you know and then

politics becomes more polarized and more

extreme because of algorithms and the

way we say that's another Domino that's

another Domino that's another Domino

that's another Domino companies find

ways as you said to hire fewer people to

get more out of them or hire different

people that's another Domino and and in

a strange way I I think of this

sometimes I go you see gifts and

curses this is purely anecdotal in my

life it's not research but I'm I'm

willing to bet on this and I'm willing

to stand by it one of the

curses that women experience because of

being pushed out of the workplace and

being like forced to stay at home and

for such a long time was they learned

how to find

purpose in what most people would

consider mundane and maybe even

meaningless you know women have found

ways to like fill their time with

community and with connecting and they

found ways to like look after their

bodies and and work out and do things

and it's different in different

communities like knitting clubs book

clubs and just just think about that

it's like it takes up your time it gives

you a purpose we're going to read this

book and then we're going to discuss it

and we I mean fundamentally it's nothing

but it's something you know and it

drives you forward it makes you feel

like you're supposed to be somewhere

you're supposed to doing you're supposed

to be doing

something and then when the workplace

opened up the women are like oh we can

go and work as well and you know I don't

know about you but in school all the

girls were smarter than we were in class

anyway and so now they're they're

comfortably working especially in an

office environment which sort of like

designed perfectly for them in that in

that way and then guys I think we

haven't practiced that I don't know many

guys I don't know about you I don't know

about I don't know many guys who know

how to just sit with their male friends

and just be not do a thing be like just

be and I and I find and I you know I'll

be careful in saying this but I have

found that it the the the degree of

comfort in just being is is different

depending on where you're from in the

world so like my friends who are from

third world countries developing nations

you know whether it's South Africa and

we're in the township or whether it's my

friends from Trinidad or it's my like in

Trin they even have a word for it liming

they say they say let's lime and lyming

means spending together with no purpose

whatsoever that's literally what my

triny friends said they're like yo we're

going to lime on Saturday that means

we're doing nothing it doesn't mean

we're going to go see a game it doesn't

mean we're going to watch your we're

going to Lime it means your friend is

going to come they're going to sit on

the couch and you're just going to be

you'll talk and then you won't talk and

then you laugh and then you won't laugh

and I don't know about you but I I feel

like guys are we're not as good at that

you know like I I I read something the

other day that was great and it was

talking about how guys always need the

third thing there's always the third

thing there's you there's me and there's

the third thing hey what are you doing

on Saturday um why don't we uh you want

to go fishing it's like why why do we

need the fishing why can't we just sit

like this and be like hey what's what's

happening in your heart Stephen what's

what's going on what's happening in my

heart or let me tell you about what's

going on women can do that and some may

argue that it's you know maybe they've

been genetically coded but I also think

they've been forced to practice that

because men were like you can't come to

the you know the factory the office the

everything for so long long and then

women are like all right and I think I

think that's another thing that men are

struggling with but it's not like their

fault it's the Dominos when I was young

we used to go to the mall we us to go to

the mall and we'd hang out with other

kids and then now malls aren't really a

thing and then kids don't really hang

out anywhere and everything's become

about money and transactions think about

how few places you can go to connect

with people without money now you know

what I mean but when I was growing up it

was it was quite common you just went

and you hung out with other kids kids

and that was just what you did it didn't

involve money and I think I think we're

starting to experience that Domino

affecting Society now do you have money

for a video game console no oh then you

can't meet up with your friends on

fortnite you know do you have money to

to go to a mov no you don't or and

movies have gone up yeah you you can't

hang out with your friends at the movies

can you afford an Uber ride no you can't

can you all these things now have meant

that I think we're experiencing

generation of men in particular who are

not just isolated but not practiced in

the art of just like connecting with

another another male for no other

purpose than to just like share hearts

and and be human beings I've heard you

talk about how you think where're a sort

of continuation of our ancestors and

their sort of legacy is that kind of you

heard you talk about this before and as

you were saying about this idea that

women are able to um connect without the

third thing it made me think you know I

think a lot of women have had that

modeled by another the generation that

came before them whereas I don't know

about you but I didn't have that modeled

in my I never saw my dad sit with a guy

and that's what I mean he didn't even

talk to us like we didn't even have

those conversations I call him by his

first name yes and I mean he would even

he's like an awkward hugger you know

like a guy you might get get the [ __ ]

off me but we we don't have that modeled

so where do we learn the skill yeah and

you'd be weird if you said to your

friend well most people be weird if they

said we just want to sit down and just

what's in your heart yeah to be like

what's wrong with you yeah my my friends

treat me like that I still do that now I

think they've softened to it you know my

friends have sort of

um they indulge

me um and I think they enjoy it for the

most part but like I I do that with my

guy friends just be like man let's just

take a moment does it come naturally to

you just look into my eyes and let's

just take a moment well here's the thing

funny enough I spent most of my life

with

women so I spend most of my time my mom

with my grandmother with my grandmother

and my grandmother's friends because I

was in the house with them I'm just

sitting around with these women just

like talking and sharing I spent very

little time with like the the men in

that way so those men that are

struggling they they'll probably be

hearing you and thinking that you're so

far away from them in terms of that

ability to be emotionally expressive and

just to check in for a lot of them it's

uncomfortable yeah um what is it they

need like where do they need to start is

there a place to start I think it is

difficult but I also think we have tools

to make it easy you know

so I'm I'm I'm very hesitant to very

quickly just say to every man hey go out

there and be vulnerable and whatever

because the the sad truth is a lot of

guys have punished a lot of guys for

being vulnerable and being themselves

and we have to acknowledge that as well

you know there's so many times when a

guy will go to their friends and say man

I'm sad people like sad oh what are you

[ __ ] oh look at the guy sad what do you

me she broke up with you come on get out

there man

and now all of a sudden the circle that

you had that you thought was protecting

you has revealed to you that if you show

your vulnerability you're ostracized

from it it's not safe yeah so you don't

want to be there and then sometimes it

even turn into a fight you know now all

of a sudden people are slapping you or

hitting you or punching you because

you've admitted that You're vulnerable

and so I I think I think that's another

place where young men struggle is like

we have to maintain this bravado and

then we see all these these influences

online who keep telling us like yeah

you're a tough guy that's all you got

you got to be a tough man you got to be

a tough man that's what you got to do

never once are they saying to you like

yo what do you feel how do you get rid

of those feelings or how do you deal

with them how do you process them who's

your friend that you can like literally

sit with and cry with do you have one

but I do think we have tools you know I

I think again you know gifts and curses

the curse of the online world is that it

affords everybody anonymity and so they

can be the worst of themselves I think

the gift is also the

anonymity you know I think a lot of

people will be shocked at how

you can connect to a person online in

like a really honest and beautiful way

because you you you're safer in a way

you know I I've I've made some of my

best friends playing like war zone you

know when like when the pandemic hits I

was like God everyone was playing war

zone I was like I'll jump on I'm not

really like an FPS guy and I jumped on

and I was decent at it but I made

friends playing this game and would talk

to people and you'd regularly meet with

them and some people were [ __ ] but a

lot of them weren't and the ones who

weren't I would relink up with and we'd

play and then it goes from talking about

the game and talking about your loadouts

and then all of a sudden you're talking

about your family and your life and how

are things and how's your week been and

how's work been and what's going on with

your boss and that promotion and that

and to this day one of my friends one of

my closest friends a person who are like

considered like a brother to me is from

that video game I never knew what he

looked like all I knew was what he

sounded like and we we like know each

other because we we explore a world that

was full intents and purposes fake and

yet the most real experience that that

that that we could have and I think you

know I look at like Reddit for instance

I think Reddit is one of the most

beautiful communities I've ever seen

where a guy can get on reddits you can

write a post and you can say anything

you can say I'm struggling with this I'm

having suicidal thoughts I feel like I

don't have a purpose I feel and you'll

be shocked at how many other guys will

jump on and go hey man I'm in the same

boat hey I'm also struggling I I'm also

sad I I also my parents I don't have a

good relationship with them I you'll be

shocked at how that Community comes

around you because there is the safety

of knowing that you're not exposing like

your name and your face but you are

exposing the thing that's inside you and

so is it a shame that we can't do that

in person as well oh yeah definitely I

think it's it's the biggest thing that's

limiting men you know I think it truly

is it's one of the biggest thing that's

limiting men in society is that we don't

we don't have an outlet for our emotions

we don't you know so if we if we're not

fighting or competing then we're just

bottling it comes with a cost doesn't it

if you bottle things yeah yeah it does

it never really stays inside the bottle

it's like the bottle's got a hole in it

or something yeah exactly you said

something I really related to which is

you said you didn't feel like you

belonged when you're younger and I

wondered when I was reading you you say

this in your books and in other

interviews you've done if that was at

all related to your skin color I'm

assuming it was in part but um I I grew

up with the exact same feeling like

there's there's a reason why I don't

know anybody

from my hometown where I lived for

almost until I was 18 years old wow

because I just always felt like we were

different we were all we were always

different everyone's white We're the

black poor family and Al we just talked

different I had different ideas of the

world and dreams and um but even now I

still don't feel like I I belong I was

with so where do you feel like you most

belong then no like almost nowhere no

but where do you most belong there's got

to be a place where you feel like you

most belong well I'm alone oh oh wow

that's when I feel like I'm that's when

you can truly be whatever the [ __ ] you

want to

be maybe yeah maybe when I'm alone I

guess that's when you feel like you you

most belong okay let's take it away from

alone I'm saying with other people or

even in a place is there a city you go

to is there a group that you're amongst

is it you're telling me there's no way

that you go to where you think to

yourself wow I I belong here I

definitely not a city um I'd say maybe

when I'm with my brothers

at

Christmas um just because they also

didn't really fit anywhere so we kind of

all don't you know and they kind of I

think that's the only thing but there's

a lot of people that don't feel like

they belong and they're trying to find

their place in the world you were a kid

from South Africa that didn't feel like

he

belonged have you found your place in

the world so I haven't I haven't I I

just find places and moments where I

feel comfortable and and and and I feel

like I'm yeah I feel warm is the best

way to describe it and and this is a

lesson that I've learned actually if if

you're struggling with this it may not

apply to everybody but I think it can

help

sometimes the feeling of being alone is

exacerbated by the fact that you are

trying to connect with people based only

on you and yourself you know so you go

I'm alone I don't feel like I belong and

then you want to go meet somebody and

you and you're just like I hello I'm

me do I do I belong to you do you belong

to me and they're like what who are you

what are you doing here you're weird

like you and we we we don't know how to

belong and how but what I found works

wonders is finding things you enjoy

focus on finding things you enjoy like

like things that you like doing MH

activities and I mean anything running

um playing a sport uh reading like any

activity with your hands you fishing

fishing find it find the thing that you

love find it I want to really I want to

show you some um some graphs that I was

I was just thinking of um as you were

speaking I'll put them on the screen for

anyone to look at but have you seen

these grass before have you seen those

graphs before people keep us oh yeah

I've seen I've seen something similar to

this

yes in terms of our age and then who

we're with in our lives yeah and I was

particularly looking at the friend graph

there yeah so the amount of time you'll

spend with different people as you age

and it when I first saw this it was

really really shocking to me and

actually this graph changed my life a

lot because it made me realize that if I

if I don't do anything the sort of five

best friends that I have yes will drift

away from me yeah and I I I saw this in

your story that your relationship with

friendship and connection has evolved

over time yeah what has that Journey

been like if you take me back from when

you left South Africa you you arrive in

America to pursue your dream as being

this

comedian how did your priorities shift

as it relates to friendship and

connection

I think because I spent so much time

alone as a kid I loved other people you

know what I mean I loved being alone I

love spending time by myself but man I I

when I can dig a hole under that gate

and like connect with other kids I'm in

heaven

and when I when I became a young adult

and I and I was and I was starting to

work I really appreciated the people who

would come into my life and what they

would teach me and you know what what

what they would remind me of myself

which is like an important thing to me I

think I think fundamentally that's what

great friendship is is somebody who sees

a part of you that you wish to grow more

of and then every time you're meeting

with them they're encouraging it and

they're they're reminding you of it you

know and that's why I warn people about

bad friends because a bad friend can do

the same thing you know

like if I say to you like think of think

of the kid who bullied you in school

think of that kid who was really mean to

you yeah I bet you if you met them to I

don't care how successful you are on

this podcast there's a little bit of

that kid that got bullied that they

still have oh 100% you know what I mean

100% like this there you go and Where I

Stood when he called me the N word

exactly exactly and it's amazing how

that happens to us but it's because they

they they hold us in a moment you know

and some people hold you in a negative

moment and some people hold you in a

positive moment there are some friends I

can think of where no matter what is

happening in my life if I meet them I'm

smiling I'm thinking I'm being creative

I'm laughing I'm loving I'm sharing I'm

feeling I'm I can't control it you know

it's not something that I'm actively

trying to do because they are constantly

seeing that part of me that I wish to

encourage and so how do you define a bad

friend like how do you know how do you

spot one I don't think you spot them I

think you feel it you know and I think

it's a lot easier for us to spot than we

think it is one of the easiest ones is

can you be yourself you know sometimes

they're not a bad friend they're a bad

friend for you because you are not

revealing yourself to them and so they

are being friends with the idea of you

but they're not being friends with you

and then you leave thinking I don't feel

good but they don't even know you so you

can't blame them for being a bad friend

you know I I almost don't think there's

such a thing as a bad friend I think

you're just in a bad

friendship you know you you because they

could be a great friend to somebody else

so I wouldn't even Define them as being

a good or bad friend I just go this is a

bad friendship for you MH and what I

learned very early on was like the value

good friendships you know and I I

learned because of my mom I remember

once I was um this was I was 1920 I just

finished high school so I was yeah I was

19

and just finished high school and I

spent all my time hanging out with like

friends of mine in in the hood you know

and that's we just did nothing the whole

day we got up to mischief and we like

how do we make money how do we hustle

how do we do these things and then my

cousin went to

University and then I because his

university like had this like open-ish

policy you could just hang out on campus

all day and so I started hanging out

with him on campus pretty much the whole

day when he wasn't in

lectures and then I I went home one day

and my mom was beaming you know I walked

in with my cousin and my mom was like oh

how are you boy and she's so happy and

she's like oh nice to see you and and

she said oh I'm so happy I'm so happy

that you guys are spending this time

together and I said why are you so happy

and my mom said because you you spend

all your time at at the University and I

said to my mom I was like Mom I don't go

to university I just hang around and I

do nothing and she said yes but the

people you are hanging around and doing

nothing with will inspire you to do more

with your life because they're doing

something with it and I was like what

and she said to me she was like you

cannot be around people who are moving

and not wish to

move whether we like it or not the

people around us are affecting how we

see ourselves and how we wish to be seen

and that stuck with me I don't think I

took it immediately but it definitely

stuck in my brain and the friends that I

have today are still I have new friends

you know as I grow in life but the

friends that I have today my core group

of friends you'll see them with me at

the Grammys you'll see them sometimes

like when i' be like you know backstage

at The Daily Show you'll see them with

me at random events in the world you'll

see them backstage at my comedy shows

you these people have literally been

with me on a journey where they've got

their own lives

but our Journeys have been intertwined

because they always make me want to be

more and do more and grow more and

change and and I think I do the same

thing for them and we're constantly

challenging each other and and

encouraging each other and playing with

each other and and and that that has

been I mean that's been immeasurable for

me you know that that's I even value

that more than I do like let's say

success on the subject of success

friendship sacrifice the moment when you

come to the United States um you are

very hardworking to say the least in

fact when we sat down you know you've

flown from Portugal to where was it

Seattle Seattle to Vegas yeah then here

to New York in the last couple of days

or say yeah it's four days I think in to

yeah yeah four

days you don't have to do that you don't

have to do that I mean you don't I mean

I don't know what's in your bank account

but I would haard a guess that you don't

need the money so I often wonder what is

it that's driving you today someone said

to me the other day on the podcast they

said they referred to my driving force

in my life as potentially being toxic

Fuel and I've never had the phrase toxic