I I couldn't scream loud enough there's

nothing I could do to make it go away or

to make them stop I I didn't

are UK talking about this

um

can we take a break Mia Khalifa Mia

Khalifa Mia Khalifa Mia Khalifa I'm

Sarah I'm Sarah [ __ ] Joe Sarah Joe

the former adult film star now business

owner and social media activist with

over 50 million followers where should

this story start I lived through a lot

of conflict in Lebanon and then I moved

to America and I was bullied for being

Middle Eastern it was around the time of

9 11 that was pretty difficult made a

lot of choices that I can't take back

your husband when you're 18 years old is

encouraging you towards the adult

entertainment industry what did they

stand to gain from that

fetishization I [ __ ] up because I

signed a contract that says in

perpetuity on it do you know how

dangerous and predatory that is when was

your anxiety at its highest the company

going after me publicly the major

production companies tray on vulnerable

young women

shower I didn't brush my teeth and eat

didn't leave my bed it's following me

for the rest of my life but I am not the

sum of the things I've been through or

the adversities I've faced for people

that are really struggling how did you

get out of that phase

foreign

and no this is an emergency I've spent

the last two years writing a book and

I've written 33 laws for business

marketing and life that I derive from

all of these conversations I've had here

I traveled the world to write this book

I interviewed some of the most

incredible people I did

six months of extensive research on

scientific studies and principles to

cooperate everything that I wrote into

these 33 laws and ladies and gentlemen

that book called The Diary of a CEO the

33 laws for business marketing and life

is now available for pre-order

and there are five thousand only five

thousand signed copies

and its first come first serve the link

is in the bio right now so if you want

that book honestly it's the best book

I've ever written it's the book I always

should have written it's the book I also

wish someone had written for me when I

was starting out in my career

I'm really proud of it I'm really really

proud of it really really proud of it

and I can't wait for all of you to get

to read it it's out in August I couldn't

be more excited about this as you can

probably tell I don't know what to say

to say other than the words I've said to

emphasize my excitement because I think

it's important and I think it's really

valuable

um Link in the description

[Music]

where should where does Your Story start

what is the most sort of pertinent

moment that you recall from your memory

that is shape the woman that has sat in

front of me today

it honestly feels like

the last year or two that's that's where

that's where my life started and where I

should start because the woman that's in

front of you right now has been a work

in progress and is still a work in

progress and I feel like I've been my

like my most authentic and purest form

of myself in the past year or two

like the closer to today we get the more

secure I feel and who I am and who that

person is but obviously there was a lot

of other things that

happened to get me to this point but

yeah to answer that question like a year

or two let's start at the end then um

which is today yeah why why

the closer we are to today the more

authentic you feel to yourself why I'm

I'm going after the things I actually

want and I'm growing into my confidence

and

the self-assurance that I've gained from

from doing the things I love and

accomplishing my goals has formed who I

am and it feels really good and it feels

very validating and it's just

it's never clicked before and they

always say like oh the confidence is the

key to everything confidence will unlock

everything for you and I never really

understood that because it's like okay

where the [ __ ] does the confidence come

from how do you just simply get

confident and

um I have grown to realize that

confidence comes from

just accomplishing things that you want

to accomplish and being proud of

yourself and that Pride

makes you feel confident like I I feel

confident even when I mess up now

whereas if I messed up

five six ten years ago it would send me

into

a pit of Shame

um a really unhealthy

just

downward spiral that would get me

nowhere

foreign

did you ever imagine being here did you

ever imagine being in the state you

currently are today happiness confidence

etc etc and I don't want to put words in

your mouth there in terms of the word

happiness but the place you are today

in the res over the last 10 did you

imagine you would get to this point or

did this seem unimaginable

it seemed unimaginable for a while but

my mental health was also not as strong

as it is today

um there was there was a lot of periods

in my life where I couldn't see past

48 Hours let alone 10 years it was very

day-to-day for a while and I think

that's why I'm so confident because

right now if you ask me what I can see

in 10 years I feel like I can answer

that I know what I want I know what my

goals are and what I want to accomplish

so

yeah even in interviews five years ago

when they would ask me where do you see

yourself in five years I would always

say I have no [ __ ] clue I don't know

where I see myself next week

and what changed

taking risks honestly

um

just taking a few risks here and there

and seeing them play out for the better

and

learning from my mistakes and learning

what I want and

saying no to a lot of things to get to

what I want like job opportunities and

and things that didn't really align with

what I thought I wanted in a year or two

or five years or even 10 years as like

my confidence started to grow and I

started to actually see life plans for

myself

um

taking taking risks and

walking away from those risks either

having them play out for the better or

um

learning from the mistakes and learning

oh this didn't work this is what I need

to do next time oh this didn't work I

crossed my own

I I crossed the boundary of mine and now

I don't feel good now I know this is

past where I should be pushing myself a

lot of trial and error

confidence confidence is a through line

throughout your story

um take me back to your earliest

memories of lacking in confidence yeah

and where because you know I came to

this country from Botswana in Africa

when I was a young young boy and I

struggled I think we both struggled with

um being accepted by the culture we had

arrived in me and Plymouth only black

kid curly hair trying to figure out why

my hair's not straight relaxing it

chemically all the time

um why were there any black family in

this all white school etc etc and then

that battle with like the lack of

enoughness not feeling like I was enough

and what I did to try and make myself

feel like I was enough but take me back

to your story at the earliest moment

where you struggled with

um not feeling like you're enough or

confident enough

I mean it does it's not even coming to

America it's being in Lebanon there was

colorism there I was the darkest one in

my family there was colorism at the

school that I was at

um I felt like a bit of an outsider

because I was darker than what the

beauty standard for a Lebanese girl is

which is light light skin light lighter

skin all of undertones dark hair green

eyes like that's the epitome of a

beautiful woman in Lebanon

um and then I moved to America and that

just got

it went to the extreme side of that I

was definitely one of the

darkest kids I was bullied for being

Middle Eastern it was around the time of

9 11 that was pretty difficult

um especially since

it was in Washington DC and Washington

DC was heavily impacted by 9 11. UM the

Pentagon was hit New York is not that

far from us it's about four hours like

so many people in my school either had

family and parents that worked at the

Pentagon it was a lot of

bullying that then turned into

internalized racism and all I wanted to

do from then forward like you said you

wanted to relax your hair you wanted to

you you wanted to assimilate and fit in

I also wanted the same thing and I just

I held that in and it it turned into

internalized racism

how did that go through because I I

often reflect and I'm I think it's taken

me time to look back in hindsight and

realize what I was feeling versus in the

moment you're kind of just in a state of

like defense it's like how do I get

through today how do I get these people

to like me versus you know and I look

back and think no man you had so much

shame like you were carrying around

shame and insecurity

um how did that go at that time so you

how old are you at this point seven ten

eleven

um eight nine eight nine okay

and how how were you aware of your

feelings I guess is the question yeah

yeah yeah very much so I think I think

yeah I've always been

an introvert and

um very aware of of what I was going

through and

angsty and even like going into my teen

years I've always been aware of the fact

that I what I was feeling is shame or

what I was feeling is

um

I'm not feeling like I'm enough I

feel like yes I've always been aware of

that feeling it there was also confusion

with it but

I think self-awareness has been

prevalent the whole time what was your

relationship like with yourself in those

teen years I was very hard on myself

um I was very

angry at myself for not fitting in and

for not being a certain way and

um

yeah just

I did not like myself

I didn't like the reflection in the

mirror and

me not liking the reflection in the

mirror obviously affected my confidence

my self-esteem everything so in turn I

also didn't like the choices that I was

making which made me not only hate the

reflection but hate the person that I

was with at the end of the day

the choices you're making yeah

um I think insecurity leads you to

leads you to do things for validation

that you otherwise wouldn't if you were

securing yourself or if you respected

yourself or if you loved yourself

like relationship choices relationship

choices

um lifestyle choices anything anything

what are some of those so in the context

of relationships I'm doing this

conversation with multiple people I've

started to sort of piece dots together

around if your self-esteem is lacking

you might become a people pleaser yeah

in your in your work so you might you

know be exploited by your work and you

might not get what you deserve in your

job is there anything else that you've

seen as a symptom or a consequence of

having real low self-esteem that people

might be able to relate to

like for you so much it's such a broad

spectrum because you can either turn

into a people pleaser or you can turn

into an insufferable a people pleaser on

the surface level everyone loves it

people pleaser they they want to please

everybody but the downside of a people

pleaser is they want to please everybody

they

have no boundaries with themselves or

with other people they don't respect

their own boundaries they don't respect

others boundaries if they're

people-pleasing person a and what person

B wants goes against what person a wants

they will find a way to please both of

them so a people pleaser

also turns into

someone who lies someone who deceives

someone who is a habitual boundary

Crosser with themselves and with other

people like it's there's there's a

spectrum to it I would say it was

definitely a people pleaser I also

sought validation from

from people who's looking back on it now

whose opinion I probably shouldn't have

respected back then let alone today

um

so that is that was a that was a

downside

um

made a lot of choices that I that I

can't take back

porn being one of the biggest ones but I

feel like that wasn't even the first one

the first one was getting into a

relationship that I never should have

been in with someone who

was

extremely abusive extremely

dangerous in the sense that

looking back on it and and having the

self-awareness and and being able to

call it what it was is

grooming it was

it was

it was just a relationship that

I feel like a lot of girls get into when

they're in their late teens

what what does that happen what do you

mean this really getting into a

relationship when you're roughly 18

years old wasn't it the relationship

started when I was 16. okay and then

went until I was about 20. and this

person was significantly older than you

yes

yes the

age difference was how to play in that

Dynamic my low self-esteem had a play in

that Dynamic

um

everything was just kind of like

16. yeah

this person's double your age no no no

it was about a 10-year age difference

okay

and at 16 what were you when you looked

forward to your future had you ask

yourself that question about you know

what happens in 10 years time no I

wouldn't have known what happened in a

week's time it was I mean

I got I got talked into eloping to Las

Vegas four days after my 18th birthday

so if you ask me where I see myself in

five years I don't I don't know I would

have looked at you with doe eyes and

said I don't know and then looked over

again where do you see me in five years

like

I

I didn't have

a sense of self so I attached myself to

someone who was more than happy to abuse

that and someone who could see that and

see someone easily

manipulatable yeah but

at the same time

eager to please

so

yeah it was just the perfect storm

Perfect Storm yeah you got married at

18. yeah

even that is

uncommon to say the least yeah

um do not recommend it

So when you say like this this you know

this person clearly took advantage of

several things that were present in you

whether that was low self-esteem or

um you know just general inexperience

and naivety of being a young a young

woman

um

which direction in life did they push

you in towards

did they push you towards becoming a a

really good partner to them or do they

put you push in a professional direction

or was it did they pull you towards them

themselves yeah it was there there was

there was no encouragement there was no

pushing towards anything it was an

extremely unhealthy relationship and

I I even feel weird calling it a

relationship because the dynamic was not

one of a relationship it was more one of

someone who saw a toy to play with

um

they were

the industry they were in is probably

not the one that you're thinking of they

were in the Army so it wasn't even it

had nothing to do with

the porn industry but it also had

everything to do with it they were the

ones who

kind of

put that whole world in front of me and

encouraged it and they encouraged it oh

very much so your husband yeah

struggle to understand

this

how so your husband when you're 18 years

old is encouraging you towards the adult

entertainment industry it started off as

just online

but then eventually yeah when when I was

asked to to

I was given I was given a business card

and told to think about it I went home I

laughed it off and the consensus was you

should do it I think it would be great

that's what I mean okay so you'll um I

read this story you were out out at

lunch somewhere someone a guy walks up

to you when you're how old

20 and gives you a business card and

says if you ever want to consider

getting into the entertainment industry

here's my number you take that home I

was wondering this when I read read

about that part of your story um

what happened post that business card

you know because I think when she was

married so you know I've got a partner

my my girlfriend comes home and says a

man's come up to me in the street and

given me a card and made me an offer

like that

um

my I'm gonna be honest my natural

disposition would be to like [ __ ]

plan the card yeah

like well they were also unhealthy had

mental health issues that

I don't know if they've ever addressed

but

it's a sickness and

they were not the right but what the

whole point of this is when your

relationship with yourself isn't right

you are not going to find the right

person you're not going to choose the

right person you're not going to choose

someone who

wants the best for you or will bring the

best out of you because you don't want

that for yourself

what were they getting out of it are you

doing that you accepting the invitation

from that business card what did they

stand to gain from that

fetishization really that was it

so there wasn't a commercial element or

anything like that for them

do you forgive that person

no I forgive myself yeah yeah do you

think there's a need to forgive people

in life

um I think you need to forgive yourself

for if someone has crossed your boundary

you need to forgive yourself for letting

that happen for giving them a position

in your life to hurt you like that me

telling you that wasn't to

explain or shift blame it was to give

context as to where I was mentally

how would you from from that point

onwards from 20 years onwards then for

the next couple of years when you look

back at the the mere

um Sarah Sarah yeah

yeah yeah but it also it's not I don't

take offense to I did I did

a while ago but I don't take offense to

it or I don't feel like my name's

actually Sarah it's either or you

probably could Sarah I do yeah yeah okay

um so that's Sarah through that period

of your life characterized by low

self-esteem people around her

um capitalizing on that in various

different ways you in your own words not

knowing better at that time in your life

um at that point in your life 20 21 22

you go and study right so you you study

at University

again with the aim of pursuing some kind

of academic academic or professional

Pursuit and what was that history

history yeah didn't really see

even then I didn't see like a like a

future doing anything I just thought I

really enjoy studying history felt like

watching a movie like it I I'm enamored

with like it it's my favorite subject it

felt like the easiest thing

um

the second easiest thing is like

psychology oh I love psychology yeah

exactly they're the interesting ones

they're the juicy they're the juicy

Majors

um

I didn't see myself doing anything other

than

whatever I had going on the next week

and then I guess the furthest I thought

ahead was I guess I'll

work in archives or work in a museum or

something I didn't have a plan like oh I

want to be a teacher or something

I've heard you talk about weight loss

and weight related issues attached to

the self-esteem conversation what role

did your weight play in um all of this

and the self-esteem and the confidence

and Body Image issues and all that I

think a pretty large one

my weight now still fluctuates and the

more that I've worked on myself in

therapy the less that bothers me and my

and affects my relationship with myself

so even

in the months where I feel like I do not

look like myself I don't feel like

myself I've let myself go a little bit

it doesn't affect me the way it used to

10 years ago

um I don't fall

yeah I I don't let it get to me as much

anymore but it did for a very long time

because it was

um

I weighed like 60 pounds more than this

which is a lot that's a huge amount of

weight to lose yeah I read that the ways

that you lost that weight were slightly

um troubling yeah I mean I wasn't eating

well I wasn't

exercising well I had unhealthy habits I

was young

therapy you went to therapy that's

helped you get to to where you are today

yeah what role has therapy played in

your life and when did you first start

going to therapy oh the biggest role

2016.

yeah

the biggest role I don't I mean I'm

still in therapy I don't see myself ever

stopping really

I cycle out therapists it's like

yeah I love it I love I love feeling

like okay I'm ready

I'm ready for a first start I'm ready

for someone new I'm ready for a new

perspective

um it's it's it's a way to keep me

grounded

every week I have to sit down and

analyze

myself my my thoughts my past like I

have to dig down and actually come face

to face with the decisions I've made the

my ways of thinking my my relationship

with myself like there's accountability

with therapy and I think that's the

biggest impact I guess accountability

yeah what are they when you've dug down

and sought to understand yourself

um what are some of the key takeaways

you've taken from from therapy

as it reads so when I think about that

question if I was beyond the receiving

end of it one of the first things that

comes to mind is actually my my ongoing

evolution of understanding why I was so

avoidant in relationships like always

running away from any woman even if I

pursued her and then she turned and said

okay let's be boyfriend and girlfriend I

would just bounce and I had sort of like

toxic model of like what love was from

my parents but then also all the shame

and insecurities like I think I'm

ambitious no I'm being dragged by this

need to be enough right so those are

kind of the two two Top Line ideas that

I took away from my experience with sort

of introspection are there any like big

picture ideas that you've taken away

from therapy that were Epiphany moments

connected dots

that's a loaded question because I I'm

so grateful for all of the information

I've learned about myself like like the

dots I've been able to connect like how

being triggered by something

a friend of mine says is actually

related to the way that I felt like the

way that I felt ostracized on the

playground when no one wanted to play

with me and like one little thing even

though they didn't mean it that way or

or even

had any malicious intent behind it has

then taken me back to

that 12 year old girl who just feels so

alone and doesn't know what she did

wrong and and just wants to people

please and

I think the best part of therapy is

within a split yeah have you seen that

so raven no it's this show with Raven

Simone on the Disney Channel when we

when we were growing up and she has

these Visions she's a psychic and she

just like stares off into space and then

she zooms out and then she zooms back in

and no time has gone but she saw maybe a

30 minute Vision play out

um but she comes back and it's been like

a split second and that's how that's

what therapy feels like it takes me back

and I analyze that moment and I

understand that that moment is not this

moment and my friend

cares about me and she's not actually

trying to make me feel like no one wants

to play with me on the playground just

because she said you can come if you

want and not I want you to come you know

what I mean

um I think that's

that's the magic behind therapy it gives

you time traveling superpowers

has it has it changed your perception of

the period of your life where you enter

the adult entertainment industry has it

has it changed your perception yeah yeah

absolutely I spent so much time

wondering why did I do this this is not

me I was in it for such a short amount

of time and the entire time I was doing

it I was also asking myself every day

why am I doing this what is wrong with

me what is wrong with me that's like the

number one question and

I know what was wrong with me I had low

self-esteem I had no boundaries with

myself I didn't respect myself I didn't

like myself so many things were wrong

with me and all of these things

anyone can work on

it's hot it is it is hard though it's

hard once you become self-aware

there's no going back I think I cried

more in the first two years of being in

therapy than I ever did going through

anything I did in my in in my in my life

in my Adolescence in my early teens and

anything

this is why a lot of people don't go to

therapy it's hard it's hard that

self-awareness is like I mean

it's it's it no and especially once you

start realizing things about people in

your life that you've kind of put

rose-colored glasses on for all your

life

to make up excuses or to kind of change

the situation in your head so that you

don't actually have to face what the

reality was or or the fact that wow this

is actually a really situation this

person that I

love who's supposed to support me who's

supposed to be there for me was actually

not that great in Heinz not even in

hindsight in

in 2020 site in actual vision

and the um the shedding that takes place

when you can you become setting that's a

great way yeah that's great that's

exactly how it feels slowly letting

these pieces go

um what's interesting is when I read

about your your life post at the adult

entertainment industry which was only a

couple of months anyway all in all um

you sounded incredibly isolated so when

I think about the word shedding I think

of all these people that you're letting

go but in that period you sounded like

you were alone I remember the story of

you going to Austin and meeting your

friend on Twitter it's all those kinds

of things

um take me to that period then so you

you make the decision that that that

career is not for you

um what happens the next you know the

next day week month

post that [ __ ] loneliness I was

living in an efficiency in inefficiency

is not even a studio it's

where this rug cuts off to that wall

that is wider than what it was but

definitely the length my toilet my

bathroom sink was also my kitchen sink

there was no stove there was a broken

window that I had tape over and there

was only one window it was it was like

it was it's a room I think they're

popular in South Florida or like I I

don't think you have them here because I

don't think they're legal to like sell

as Living Spaces

um very lonely extremely lonely but

at that point in my life loneliness was

better than what I was doing before and

that I think was the start of

the tiniest tiniest tiniest bit of

confidence that gave me the confidence

to take the risk of moving to Austin and

starting a new life and I was so lonely

I was so broke I was so lost I was so

confused but all I was completely 100

sure of was

I don't want to do porn I've never

wanted to do porn I'm never gonna go

back to that

and standing firm on my ground in my

morals in my boundaries in just

everything that that was like the

tiniest glimmer of confidence starting

to grow

standing firm in my boundaries even if I

didn't know that was a boundary I

couldn't pinpoint it I couldn't call it

that I didn't know what it was I didn't

have the verbiage or the knowledge or

the self-awareness to

call it what it was but that was how it

started I would not if I

if I hadn't moved to Austin I wouldn't

have started therapy I wouldn't have

that

that was the domino effect of

in a positive way in my life it could

have gone a completely other way and it

does for so many people and I'm

so so so grateful that

I was able to get out

that first domino falling which took you

to Austin in that new Direction was

there a catalyst was there something

that pushed that Domino

because I noticed that in this in the

sort of timeline of events you then at

the same time separate from your partner

around a similar time and then you leave

the adult entertainment industry is was

there a catalyst because those two

things those two decisions are huge

decisions and they feel correlated they

feel like they're attached I had nothing

to lose and I think that I also knew I

need to get the [ __ ] out of Miami I was

in Miami at the time and it was where

everything happened and I just did not

want to be there anymore it was it it

felt daunting it felt like walls closing

in on me everywhere I went

um was there like a catalyst day though

something that happens that makes you go

fat I need to or was it just slow yeah

it was it was I mean it was the day I

met my best friend on Twitter I had I

didn't meet her that day on Twitter her

and I had been following each other for

a while she was

posts memes I like them vice versa

um

he her and I were talking about

something oh she said I'm looking for a

roommate I'm asking around the office

for a roommate and I said what if I

moved to Austin I don't want to live in

Miami anymore and then I started looking

up

how do you move States like what does it

take what does it require what paperwork

do I need for my dogs like all of that

stuff and then within a month I was

packed up and moved

and was that was there a catalyst for

you deciding to leave the adult

entertainment industry even though you

were there for a couple of months was it

I think I think it was

how overwhelming everything became so

fast

uh okay like that that was the reality

check it was like it was like a like

they when they turned the lights on at

the club at four in the morning like

whoa the floors are sticky and nothing

looks the same this is not what I

signed up for it's not what I expected I

[ __ ] up

that's not a typical experience for an

actress in that industry no no it is a

very atypical experience because you

went from obscurity to

to number one in an industry in in weeks

yeah

so you you got hit by a [ __ ] truck

yeah

okay that makes sense okay

you become a paralegal yeah for a very

short period of time like six months

tell me all about that nothing really

much to say it was for an insurance

defense firm it was pretty boring and it

was very much like like corporate the

insurance company that they represented

was

it was Geico so it was like a very

boring thing and it was

it was just paper pushing um it was

really weird to work there especially

since that was my first job where

I did it I I did the application and I

went into it thinking this is the shift

this is this is me putting Mia Khalifa

behind me and this is me like trying to

be a real human

um did not work everyone in the office

recognized me it was a very

uncomfortable work environment not

because

not because anyone was

overtly

inappropriate it was just

simply being in an office knowing anyone

who walked through did Double Take and

is like are you

so that was uncomfortable

um and then after that

I worked at a construction company just

doing bookkeeping and office work and

same thing I would have to go on a job

site and

the owner of the company just

made it so I like I

I can't go on job sites it was a

distraction it was not a good idea it

was people would be that in that

situation people would be inappropriate

sometimes but

yeah I I started to feel like a burden

in the office is where I was and I hated

that feeling and I was actually sitting

at that construction job in the office

when I was talking to Rachel and the DMs

like I'm gonna move to Austin let's do

it anxiety yeah

has that been a big part of your life

for much of your life yes very much so

and I think that has been prevalent from

the very beginning

the very beginning is in since you were

a kid or a teenager or yeah probably

even in utero I mean my parents grew up

in the Civil War in Lebanon and I lived

through

a lot of conflict in Lebanon whether it

be civil or the surrounding countries or

whatever but we left for a reason and

it's because it was dangerous so I think

I've always had that

like I jump when I hear a noise I jump

when someone who's been in the room for

four hours with me speaks even though

they haven't because they haven't spoken

in 10 minutes like I get scared like I

I'm a jumpy person

probably because of that

when was your anxiety at its highest

2019-2020

okay

so that's post Austin oh yeah yeah it

was when it was post everything but it

was

in the midst of uh the porn company

going after me publicly and

re-re releasing things and digging up

footage that was corrupted in in 2012 20

in 2013 whenever it was shot and

releasing it like it was new and that

coming back into the new cycle and them

just being

extremely abusive and exerting

improving that they still have control

over me because I signed a contract that

says in perpetuity on it

your life had had started to move oh

yeah I was married again I'm married

again 2019. you're where are you living

at this point I was living in L.A

um

yeah

I was living in La I was doing my own

thing I

was

starting

to figure out what it was I wanted to do

and and where I want like things were

really good that year it was it was the

year I had that little cameo in that

incredible show Rami

um that was that was really that was a

huge moment for me and I'm so grateful

for that moment and I'm so upset that

that moment was kind of overshadowed by

all of the negativity that came from

um the

the porn company in the subsequent

months

the porn company

um coming after you and attacking you

not something you would expect from a

company

a billion dollar company at that yeah it

goes to show you how Petty and personal

it is

um because the people who are behind it

aren't aren't exactly the CEOs it's it's

the

board pseudo producers who

who don't like that I'm out here talking

about

my experience

it it's very much individuals not the

company but these individuals do have

the power to speak on the company's

behalf what are they threatened by

I think they're threatened by

like you said earlier

most people in my position aren't in my

position because

they

this is the outcome that the girls want

who enter the industry most of them who

entered the commercial porn industry

um or the mainstream porn industry

they they want the fame they want the

infamy they want they want all of that

um

and I think for the first time these

individuals are experiencing someone who

is fully aware of what was happening and

is fully aware of what is and isn't

ethical and has the platform and the

resources to speak on all of those

things

what is your opinion of the industry no

I have a very

unfavorable opinion on it but I do think

that there are ethical and unethical

ways that you can support sex workers

and consume porn as

as someone who is a Creator or as

someone who is simply a consumer there

are ethical ways to do it granted any

company has its downsides like even only

fans

has trouble

policing and and regulating the people

who are on their site and the

every company has its downsides but I

would say that the major production porn

companies are all predatory and abusive

and unethical and

prey on vulnerable young women

and even me saying this I already know

that some of the responses back are

going to be from women in the industry

that say

no it's not no it's not it's great it's

fantastic everyone is so nice I love

this company I love working with I love

all of this and

to be honest with you I think that that

rhetoric is grooming I think that if

you're going to enter the industry and

you're going to be an advocate for it it

has to it has to come with a caveat and

that caveat needs to be

you shouldn't enter the industry unless

you've already kind of been in the

industry it shouldn't be a first option

for you like that shouldn't be something

that you simply go into because you like

it

think about it more wait on it more

the age to go into the industry should

not be 18.

you're putting contracts in front of 18

year old girls that have the words in

perpetuity on them do you know how

dangerous and predatory that is

these are three four five page contracts

Jesus Christ

I mean any contract when you're 18 years

old although it's like list reading the

legal verb it's it's jargon it's

literally another language

I was thinking about Miranda rights we

don't really have like Miranda right we

have our own version of it here but what

do you do think I'll save the queen I

thought I don't forget I've never been

arrested I'll let you know

but you get read your Miranda I watch

all of these like a US crime

interrogation videos it's like how I

fall asleep don't don't worry about it

wow but I see them anxiety

Miranda rights before they get

interrogated and then they get offered a

lawyer yeah

seems like maybe from what you're saying

that's not a bad idea if there was some

kind of like implications clearly stated

to people that are considering entering

the porn industry at a young age and the

opportunity to have a lawyer or at least

legal representation to impartially

explain as a as a third party the

potential

um implications For Better or For Worse

you know I don't think that's ever going

to be possible unless the laws change

around

what around around the the rights that

they have it's just those two words in

perpetuity it's in perpetuity what

vicious words yeah not not forever not

not on in your lifetime Not In Our

Lifetime on in in perpetuity of all

lifetimes in all existence who needs

that much control over a young woman's

body

they still own the website with your

name with your yeah

there's nothing you can do to have that

website taken down

I mean

there is but

it's

a very expensive lawsuit against a

billion dollar Corporation it's a

conglomerate they also own

that it Bang Bros isn't the only company

under that umbrella it's

it's a very it's very wide reach

the peak of your anxiety 2019-2020 if I

was a fly on the wall inside your

your apartment

wherever you're living back then what

would I have seen what would I observed

didn't shower I didn't brush my teeth

and eat didn't leave my bed was crying

all the time anytime I would open my

phone I felt I felt like

I felt like a prisoner in my own body

and in the world more so not just in my

own body because

I I didn't I I couldn't scream loud

enough there's nothing I could do

to make it go away or to make them stop

I honestly

the worst part about it was I knew that

if I if I went on and actually spoke

about how

how much it impacted me

that's that's what they would want

that that's that's exactly what they

would want

they were very annoyed that I started

naming them by name and that's when

everything started these individuals

value their privacy more than anything

in the world and it's because

of

all the unethical and immoral things

that they've done throughout their

careers

in this industry

so they all go by aliases too being

called out by their legal government

names was

not something they took kindly to and

that is why they chose to

release the video that the footage was

corrupted of 10 years ago

that's that was a pornographic video

yeah okay so they started releasing more

videos because she was speaking out

against them

and they started doing a variety of

other attacks making like mini Instagram

documentary yeah clips of you which I

thought I find I mean you'd expect like

a jealous bitter X to be doing something

like that that's exactly what they are

you know not a corporation that's

exactly what they are a jealous bitter

EX

act I look I look at all the decisions

I've made in my life and I think about

you know being 18 and deciding to do

this or that or 25 and doing this and

[ __ ] up at that and you people look

back and they say there's always a

silver lining

is there a silver lining

yeah

I'm really funny trauma makes you funny

builds character

no of course there's a silver lining I'm

sitting in front of you today happier

than I've ever been I've

I am not the sum of the things I've been

through or the adversities I've faced

I'm not

the Silver Lining is

[ __ ] happened it's over with

it's not over with actually it's

following me for the rest of my life but

I am no longer in the mental space that

I was back then so it's over with for me

and you get to make your silver lining

yeah and that's that's what I feel like

you've done is you've made a silver

lining because there's clearly you could

have gone several ways yes that's true

what are the ways you could have gone

I was acting on Instinct there wasn't a

time when I sat down and thought what do

I want with my life I I needed a job so

I acted on Instinct I applied to things

that I felt like I could do I'm good at

paperwork I'm good at I'm good at um

just

the administrative things I like I like

being left alone so I didn't want a job

where I was working with like I I was

always acting on Instinct there was

never really a plan what felt right it

felt right in the moment to get an

office job it felt right in the moment

to leave that one and go to another one

it felt right in the moment to leave

everything and move to Austin it felt

right in the moment in Austin to well

actually

I had a very that was the first time in

my life where I started forming a core

group of friends and people who were

still in my life to this day

um and they were the ones who convinced

me not convinced me but kind of

encouraged me to go to therapy

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depression

another word different to anxiety in

many respects people often characterize

it with like thoughts of the past and

they think of anxiety as worries of the

future

um depression is another word that I

read a few times throughout your story

um again is that something that's kind

of been with you throughout life or is

that was that

post moving to Miami it was really that

2019-2020 oh really yeah yeah

um I went on Lexapro I went like I that

was when

I mean maybe I was depressed but it was

never diagnosed

I had two therapy sessions a week and a

psychiatrist and I was on Lexapro I was

on Propranolol I was on

beta blockers everything for anxiety

depression

all of that all of that was in was in

2019 2020 the when

when everything started to kind of get

rehashed and I felt like

um

being I'm very very grateful to be out

of

the depths of my depression but

um something that does keep me up at

night anxiety wise is where things are

headed with

Ai and

um

deep fakes and things like that because

that feeling of

of being violated all over again and

having no control like it's like trying

to run in a dream as hard as you as you

try it's it's impossible and it's a very

daunting feeling and you feel

claustrophobic and you feel like you're

trying to breathe underwater and all

these really really awful things that

that are out of your control that's what

that's what that feels like and I try

not to think about it for too long but

the AI still feels like that and the

Deep fake stuff yeah okay

it's [ __ ] terrifying yeah

were people worried about you 2019 did

you have people around you that were

worried about you at that point I did I

did I'm very grateful I did because I'm

trying to think of this this step people

take when they go and have therapy or

they go to the doctor and say listen

something's wrong with me you're at home

this stuff's happening online this porn

company are targeting you what is this

what is the what was the Catalyst in

that moment to make you go do you know I

need to go get help oh I was still in

therapy yeah and my therapist said you

need a psychiatrist really yeah he said

I I'm like you need a psychiatrist I

can't prescribe you antidepressants

you you need you need a psychiatrist

here's some recommendations

again so what's life like I joined a TV

show so uh things change for me you know

people start stopping you in the street

and coming up during the gym and stuff

and you know I love you know it comes

with the territory of what I did I was

well aware of what I was getting into

also I joined the TV show when I was

like 28 29 so you kind of like you're

probably a bit more prepared mentally

for things and you understand the world

a bit better and you're not trying to

impress people as much as I was when I

was younger

but it was still an adjustment to say

the least

um what was life like for you that

post-miami period you're now moving on

with your life you're trying to you know

this porn company come for you what is a

life like day to day and when you go to

the coffee shop

I'm kind of glad you asked that because

it's a huge contrast to what it is now

even though it's kind of still the same

I would get recognized and I would get

come up to and I would get asked to like

take a photo with someone all the time

but my reaction to it is completely

different than

it is now I

would want to crawl into a hole and hide

away and be ashamed I was I was so

embarrassed I felt like a

like a warm feeling in my stomach like I

had just been punched or like I just

found out I was being cheated on or

something like it's just a very painful

visceral reaction

to be recognized and to know what you're

being recognized for

um and it wasn't until

I started to accomplish other things and

I started to be proud of things that

I've that I've done and things that I've

kind of

shifted and diverted into in my career

so those first few months to a year in

Austin I felt very I had a lot of social

anxiety and I didn't go out much

um because I didn't want to be

recognized

um I felt like

I I just didn't want to be recognized I

didn't want to be looked at I didn't

want to be perceived I didn't I didn't

want to leave my house

none of that but is that a form of like

self-hatred because you're like no

because no because it was more so the

people who were coming up to me college

guys like like men you know it it it

just made me uncomfortable because I

knew why they knew me and it wasn't

until I started accomplishing things

that I was actually proud of that that

changed I didn't feel that same like

gut-wrenching visceral feeling of Shame

when I would hear the name Mia or or get

called in the street or anything like

that like I the more I accomplished the

more proud I was of what I've built and

what I've changed and and all of these

things that I've done the more

comfortable I got with being recognized

because inherently people were

recognizing me for other things women

started to recognize me

everything kind of shifted the more that

I do and continue to do the more

the more the more that changes like I

I rarely get come like I get come up to

More by by women now than by men

and I love that

what was that path out of the there's a

book I from a psychiatrist had on this

podcast called The Path out of the

jungle for you what was the let's pass

through the jungle sorry but what was

the path out of the Jungle few that 2019

depression period like how did you for

people that might be in that situation

right now where they're really

struggling what was was it just time was

it Community Support was it the

medication how did you get out of that

phase everything all of that combined

all of that combined truly I don't think

I could have done it without shout out

to Lexapro without the Lexapro without

my support system without

without my job without people in my job

encouraging me to to

pursue what I want to do and and to and

to

not let fear of

of having something taken away from me

or or having something you had that fear

of having it taken away from you yeah of

course of course they're constantly

threatening me even using the name Mia

Khalifa and threatening you using the

name Mia Khalifa they think they have

ownership of it

okay which they do not it's my dog's

name and they tried to convince me not

to use Khalifa because they said No

One's Gonna know how to spell it but

yeah I I I'm constantly in fear of

they're a billion dollar Corporation yes

yeah the amount of lawsuits that they

field on a daily basis

they're being sued right now by um

by a company that does MLB trading cards

because they're trying to do trading

cards of

of actresses

you you married around that time right

2019 yeah a lot of what I read said that

that marriage had fallen apart because

the attention you were getting was

difficult for your partner

I don't know about that he's also

famous no no well he's a very popular

Chef okay um

but no that that was more of

irreconcilable differences now I'm just

kidding um it was it was a lot we we

were in therapy for a year okay an

entire year we tried I was we were

separated for

three months I lived in an Airbnb I

moved out of the house like we

we tried it was more so

it just very much came down to We Got

Married very too early we got married

too soon before we actually knew each

other we got married in the honeymoon

phase and

um

we were just very different

Tick Tock you've become a tick tock

sensation

I don't like to spend too much time on

Tick Tock because you know I I'll end up

not doing anything with my life I spend

too long on that because it's really

addictive but I went through your tick

tocks you're a comedian oh my God trauma

no but you know but you are you're

incredibly successful until I think that

Tick Tock is my favorite app and I think

that I'm very lucky that Tech talk is

just it's what it's where I spend the

most time I I kind of just get it I get

it it was very easy for me I love Tick

Tock so future Personality yeah

you've cultivated a group of people

there a huge group of people almost like

30 million people something crazy

um who love that side of Sarah yeah the

women on on on my Tick Tock are amazing

I'm very very

grateful for the community of women that

I found on there

a second ago you said about 10 years

time plans for 10 years time you said

now you have an answer

the answer is

two-car garage

decent backyard

um

three

very successful

still operating companies that I'm very

heavily involved in still I don't plan

on retiring anytime soon and hopefully a

kid on the way oh

in order to have a kid now there's a

couple of routes to having a kid that's

not true

in order to have a kid you can adopt one

you can steal one or you can have your

own

um all you know all of these past I mean

I'm sure there might be a fourth path

that I'm not yeah I wouldn't mind

stealing a four-year-old someone who's

already like into cartoons and stuff so

maybe that's the route I go by I go for

are you are you in a relationship now no

you know you're single yes how are you

finding that I talk a lot about my guess

about relationships and how dating in

the modern world is really really tough

it is tough it sucks especially for a

certain generation I think got caught

between like the digital world and like

the analog world yeah do you find it

tough obviously people know who you are

you're you're famous you're super famous

you've got like 60 million followers

plus

um do you find it tough to date very

very but I'm also not trying I've been a

Serial monogamous for a while I got out

of a

long-term long-ish term relationship a

few months ago

um

but

yeah

it's difficult it's difficult but I also

haven't tried but I'm I I don't I don't

know what I'm expecting I haven't gone

into the dating World in

maybe six years I've been in long-term

relationships what do you what would

make a great partner for Sarah

what would they have to have what would

be the jigsaw shape emotional

intelligence and a good relationship

with their therapist and with therapy in

general

um someone who's constantly working on

themselves and is self-aware and

understands the Ebbs and flows of

life and emotions and how it's not

always going to be even Keel how it'll

oscillate but also it doesn't

necessarily mean go from good to toxic

it means go from good to needing a

little more support then

then you normally have

men are not necessarily the best at

emotional intelligence but I think I'm

not ruling out women yeah good good

and business

three businesses

the business the jewelry brand can you

tell me all about your jewelry brand and

um the inspiration for that and your

vision for that

um I'm really really excited

to launch it it's called shaitan it's

the inspiration is

every woman who I've ever admired every

Arab girl who chooses yellow gold over

white gold every

just

women in general huge inspiration behind

it

um it's body jewelry for the most part

but it's also lifestyle

um

it will launch imminently and

yeah

why did you choose jewelry

because I love it I was I was custom

making the things that I wanted that I

couldn't find easily

um

hand lariats and foot lariats and belly

chains and bra chains and start like all

all of this stuff was extremely hard to

find so I was custom making it and

paying a lot for it

so

very excited to put out something that

is

extremely delicate and Precious and

Beautiful but also affordable

you know when you think about like the

ingredient ingredients list of your own

happiness right now in your life what is

on that list of ingredients what are the

like factors that need to be present for

you to feel like stable and

um

full hmm

I would say

70 percent alone time interesting 20

percent

time surrounded by people who energize

and recharge me and ten percent

just

10 [ __ ] it

ten percent just if something feels

right do it Follow Your Instinct but

like I'm kind of scared of my instinct a

little too sometimes even though

yeah ten percent just listen to your gut

and going back to the start of the

conversation this is because you feel

closest to knowing who who you are yeah

yeah the most secure and

the decisions I make on a daily basis

and who are you

I'm Sarah

I'm Sarah [ __ ] Joe

he's Senator Joe Sarah is Unapologetic

and

not Fearless pretty fearful but I think

that's a good thing cautious cautious

and

secure okay so Unapologetic and then the

second one was

not Fearless pretty fearful yeah but in

a good way cautious cautious cautious

okay

the Unapologetic part

I get that I sense that from you

where did that come from Rihanna

no really that came from oh absolutely

yeah yeah she has a whole album called

Unapologetic and that

that is what I base my

my personality off of

why what do you mean why why did you

choose debate there's so many different

albums Rihanna's made or oh that's

that's that's the one that just exude

that's the one that kind of that was her

that was her shift also that was her

moment of

now I know who I am and I'm Unapologetic

about it it might not be the bubble gum

pop girl you thought I was or wanted me

to be this is who I am and this is the

person who's not going anywhere

is that a stark contrast from the Sarah

I would have met had I met you like 18.

like I wanna if I like put that 18 year

old Sarah there and I had them both side

by side

I'm guessing Sarah 18 wouldn't be on

Unapologetic no well can you describe

how her her vibe would have been sat

here today

shriveled and secure quiet probably or

too loud just because insecurity screams

not not someone well actually no that is

someone who I would want to be around

because I feel empathy for her

and I forgive her and the journey to

Unapologetic was

from what I've gone in so far based on

the evidence you got from going out and

doing things and proving [ __ ] to

yourself yeah that's so important I was

going to say this at the start of the

conversation this idea of confidence

people don't know how you said it like

how the [ __ ] did you get confidence like

where does it come from how do I buy one

but from your own experiences it's the

evidence you gain from doing [ __ ] that

changes your beliefs exactly it's all

evidence yeah you have evidence for like

low confidence is negative evidence yeah

and the confidence you've built over the

last couple of years is from

doing really cool [ __ ] yeah exactly

we have a closing tradition on this

podcast where the last guest leaves a

question for the next guest okay and

they leave it written in this diary oh

Aristotle said give me the child at

seven and I'll show you

the man

or one

is it true that the first seven years of

your life

make you who you are

I think they have a huge impact just

psychology speaking it's like but

psychologically I think those are very

formative years

yeah seven years old you could have um

whispered some words into Sarah's ear

what would those words have been

you're amazing you're enough you're

perfect

thank you so much ma'am thank you Sarah

yeah that's okay learning about your

story and really like the reaction to

the mistakes you made when you were

younger is um incredibly inspiring for

me because we all make we will make

decisions especially in our young years

that you know through naive it's your

other or coercion or whatever it might

be we're not necessarily you know we

wouldn't make those decisions again and

the way you've responded to that and

built the life that you're building now

off the back of that and the audience

you've built around tick tock and social

media

um around your personality and your

humor is incredibly

hope inspiring it gives me a lot of hope

that regardless of you know the the

steps I make in my life there will be

um there's a way through there's a way

through the jungle and that's what your

story represents to me it's an

incredibly inspiring one and you're

um yeah you're an inspiration for that

very reason so thank you thank you I

appreciate that

[Music]

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life holidays or just for some extra

money I've airbnb'd my place previously

and honestly the process couldn't have

been easier it's something I'd highly

recommend you all to check out your

extra room that extra space you have in

your house you might be surprised how

much it's worth I was surprised how much

it was worth and you can find out how

much it's worth by going to airbnb.co.uk

slash host that's airbnb.com host check

it out

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oh

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you got to the end of this podcast

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podcast I feel like I owe them a greater

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listen to the whole thing and hopefully

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thank you so much and I'll see you again

next time