Jeffrey Epstein was a product of at

least one element of the intelligence

community. I would bet money on it. The

CIA, FBI? I don't know who ran him, but

he knew a tremendous amount about my

scientific work in ways that he wasn't

supposed to. Very powerful people told

me I needed to meet him. He certainly

was not a financier in any standard

sense. That was a cover story. I need to

know what this thing was, and I want to

know why people don't investigate. I

want to know why nobody asks for the

filings, but I think more than anything,

we don't trust our scientists because

our scientists are the most powerful

people in our society. So, do you think

science is being controlled so that it

can be used in a way that's beneficial?

Let's put it this way. Eric Weinstein is

a renowned mathematician and one of the

most fearless and provocative thinkers

of our time. He dissects the failures of

science, exposes elite networks, and

proposes bold new theories that could

save humanity. So, top of mind for me at

the moment is the apocalypse and

tropical fruit.

I'm not kidding. You're looking at the

end, man. Do you really think this is

the start of the end? Of course it is.

Look at how much has happened in the

last month. And the big problem is that

we share one atmosphere. All of

humanity's eggs are in one basket. So,

what needs to happen to get me a future?

So, I think Elon is 100% right. You got

to get to another sphere, but he's being

a complete when it comes to science, and

he's being a total hero when it comes to

engineering. But you can't engineer your

way to the stars with the science we

have. But physics opens the universe to

you. But we have a real problem. A new

idea in physics changes the balance of

power in the world. The desire of our

government is to get the science to give

us as much power as possible. But then

they castrate the scientists, belittle

them, destroy their families, their

lives, their ability to earn because our

government isn't good enough to keep its

own secrets. I Do you think

>> My employer was a special informant to

the FBI. There's a doctrine that says

physicists don't have free speech.

They're stopping the world's most

important group from making progress.

Physics is the only thing that's going

to get you a future.

So, let's talk about that.

I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double-check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple It's the free thing that

anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double-check if you subscribed and thank

you so much because in a strange way you

are you're part of our history and

you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you.

Eric, you are a particularly captivating

individual for the very fact that you

grace so many different intellectual

subjects.

As we sit here now having this

conversation, I want to know

what subjects at this moment in in time

are occupying most of your thoughts and

most of your thinking?

We have

a a strong listenership here

and I think the responsibility that I

have meeting someone like you is to

understand

what we should be talking about.

So, top of mind for me at the moment is

tropical fruit and physics.

I'm not kidding. Tropical fruit and

physics?

>> Yeah. But that's just because you're

catching me on a particular day. Okay.

And my my local

99 Ranch Market ran out of rambutan,

which I'm addicted to.

No, I have serious issues with tropical

fruit. I'm I'm completely obsessed by

it. What about this week? What what's

been occupying most of your thoughts

this week? Well, the apocalypse

and physics.

Why do you say the apocalypse?

Um

>> What do you mean by the apocalypse?

Well, we're we're becoming

immune to to the apocalypse. We just

watched hypersonic missiles slam into a

modern city

on TV and

we're watching one of the world's

most remarkable civilizations, the

Persians, take

uh direct hits from both Israel and

the US, and I'm just beside myself.

I mean,

this is incredibly dramatic.

If If you think about, you know, just

the idea of the Jews and the Persians

are both still here.

And, you know, one of the things that I

find really just painful is that

I care about certain certain cultures

that I know well more than others, and

these are two of my absolute favorites.

What's What's going on at this moment in

time? Because it feels like there's more

conflict than there's ever been.

I don't know whether that's just a bias

that I have at this moment, but whether

I'm looking at the wrong social media

algorithm, but it feels like the world

isn't is tense.

>> Well, you're too You're too young for

the Cold War.

So, I don't know how old you are.

>> 32. Yeah, so you you you really missed I

grew up in a different world where

things were tense because there were two

players, and you know, it was more or

less the US and the Soviets.

And then we decided and one of the

dumbest things we ever came up with, a

very smart man

came up with the dumbest one of the

dumbest ideas, which was the end of

history. And,

you know, the the post-World War II

order

is here to stop us from using the

technologies that came out of this, and

I you know, I talked about this a lot.

There was a 6-month period between

November of '52 and April of '53 where

we unlocked first

the power of the nucleus because we

could fuse hydrogen, and the

other thing we were able to do was uh

figure out the three-dimensional

structure

of nucleic acid in the form of the

double helix,

and suddenly

in in no time flat, we had access to the

two most powerful levers uh humanity

has ever had or perhaps ever will. And

so, we're just not in a position to deal

with this. And the remarkable thing What

does that mean, sorry? In terms of You

said we had access to the two most

remarkable things. Well,

the hydrogen bomb

is not something that has ever been used

by anyone against

an enemy.

This is the first full-scale test of a

hydrogen device.

If the reaction goes, we're in the

thermonuclear era. 3 2

1

SO, WE'RE WE'RE AWAITING ITS first use

in war. We we we did use fission

devices, but we didn't use fusion

devices.

And they're at completely different

scales.

So, the Hiroshima Nagasaki are the only

two situations in which a nuke has ever

been used against

a population, civilian or otherwise.

And we don't know, for example, whether

or not, I don't know, um, at least COVID

had its origins in a bioweapons program.

So, at some level, we're playing with

levers and tools that are so powerful.

Do you realize that the the key

ingredient that made COVID so unique

was a four amino acid sequence inserted

into spike protein.

So, that's 12 nucleotides coding for

four amino acids shut down planet Earth

for a couple of years.

That's how powerful this is, you know,

and and there are very few things that

have this kind of leverage. In 2017, we

had a discovery, a white paper

called Attention Is All You Need. And if

oddly, many of us

dealing with AI and LLMs and talking

that language don't even realize there's

a paper that you can read that changed

everything.

Uh, it's eight authors out of Google, I

think. Um, and that opened up AI.

Uh, Satoshi in 2008 2009 with the

the solution to the double distributed

double spend problem where you could

effectively port um conservation laws

from the physical world into the digital

world giving us digital gold uh but just

as a as a beginning.

These ideas that have such high leverage

are

making us powerful beyond

any previous world with no

attendant increase in our wisdom and our

ability to use

and wield these things. And right now

you're seeing the face where we're

unveiling what does drone warfare look

like in FPV? What is FPV? first-person

where you know where you're looking

through the lens of the drone as it

slams into a personnel carrier.

You know, maybe you maybe you've seen

this on Telegram where you're just

watching individuals being menaced

by mechanical flying birds equipped to

kill them.

So

we didn't know what drone warfare looked

like. This is the beginning of drone

warfare. We didn't know what hypersonic

missiles look like when they slam into a

population center. I was just in Tel

Aviv

Yeah.

a couple months ago and I was in you

know shelters because the Houthis

and some of the uh Palestinian Arabs in

Gaza were letting off missiles.

But not like this.

Persians really you know

and by the way they're choosing I think

to not inflict maximal damage. I don't I

don't think that they

they could have gotten the body count a

lot higher if they'd wanted to. They're

trying to speak

the language of violence in a very

measured fashion.

So is this a particularly

tense moment or is it just the bias that

I have because I've not been through

these things before. Is there something

different?

>> you're looking

I can't even believe the question.

You're looking at the end, man.

This is the beginning. This is a slow

roll out

of a completely different world. You've

been in

We've all been in a completely

artificially stagnant bubble

for decades. My entire life up until now

has been in a bubble.

The only people who've seen real life

are extremely old.

Who are those people that have seen real

life? Well, I would say people who went

through the depression, World War II.

You know, in China, people who went

through Mao's Great Leap Forward. But

most of us have no idea of what like a

real pandemic, like a Spanish flu or

Black Plague is like. We don't know what

uh Poland went through where they lost,

you know, I don't know, 20 25% of their

population to war. Look at the stat

statistics on the Battle of Stalingrad.

We don't really understand We've We've

We've just

our whole life has been in a bubble.

You said I'm looking at the end. Yeah.

Remember all the talk about the

singularity? Like Ray Kurzweil, we're

heading to the singularity. What is the

singularity going to be like?

You're in it.

This is This This is now.

You're looking at the disintegration of

NATO.

You're looking at people who don't know

how to maintain the systems that were

engineered by their great grandparents

after World War II. That order

that, you know, you're from the UK.

If you think about

how how the UK woke up to the idea that

they had

built into their heads

that we are the masters of the world.

So, you you saw the beginning of the end

of this concept of the British Empire.

That moment is coming for the

And it it may be that it's coming for

Israel or maybe that it's coming for

Iran. See, in 1967 the Israelis felt

invincible in the Six-Day War.

And then in 1973 they had the Yom Kippur

War.

And all the people that they were

you know, priding themselves having

beaten these ferocious enemies that were

arrayed against them

woke up on Yom Kippur in 1973 and

bloodied the Israelis and they surprised

them. So, the Israelis underestimated

their enemy and that changed the entire

character of the country. It went from

being a triumphal state that felt that

David could defeat Goliath to realizing

that Goliath was quite powerful.

And you know, the same thing is going to

happen here. You you saw the celebration

that Trump

you know, had dealt this blow to the

Iranian nuclear facilities. You you

watch the Persians come back. It's going

to

we're starting to realize what the

boundaries are as people are more bold

in trying things. Maybe she's going to

try to cross the Taiwan Strait. I don't

know. But the era of stasis where very

little happened over very long periods

of time is over.

So, you think this is the start of

escalation?

This is the start of the undoing of the

post-World War II order. The idea that

the post-World War II order is still in

place is astounding.

So, what happens next? We either scare

the crap out of ourselves and come to

our senses or we don't. We scare the

crap out of ourselves and come to our

senses. Or we don't. Hm. And what does

that look like scaring the crap out of

ourselves? Well, I don't know. How did

you feel about the hypersonic missiles?

Like we started this and I'm talking

about tropical fruit

cuz I'm trying to figure out whether I

should buy a jackfruit and stink up my

wife's kitchen.

You know, and on the other hand I just

saw hypersonic missiles slam into the

buildings I was just in for meetings in

Tel Aviv.

There's a a nuclear

threat that weirdly hangs over us and I

I almost feel at some deep level we all

understand and feel that threat, that

there's these nine or 10 countries

around the world that have the ability

to basically wipe out all of us at any

moment. I feel like that's almost within

us all.

That knowing is within us all. I totally

disagree.

>> Really? Yeah, I think about nothing else

sometimes and I still don't believe I

don't believe it. There's a difference

between knowing something in your head

and knowing something embodied. Yeah.

I don't know if we're able to

distinguish whether we know it in our

head or whether it's embodied

unconsciously to the point that it's

changing how we act.

Do you know what I mean? Because I'm I'm

now aware that there's nine country and

I'm also aware of that really it's one

individual's

decision as to whether those

nuclear bombs were to fly. So there's a

part of me that's I don't know, maybe in

suspended disbelief or at a deeper level

feels an angst.

But nobody knows what to do with it and

this is part of what what Elon is all

about, which is that

I am convinced that everybody else needs

to be talking about this much more and I

need to be talking about this much less.

I talk about this all the time.

And people are always

I want to survive more than anything

else.

There's so many things that I love about

this place

and I don't like the idea that we're all

trapped here

with one atmosphere, with nine

individuals if you like,

who could all wake up on the wrong side

of the bed and say,

"Uh,

today's the day."

Part of what I'm so exercised about with

respect to the apocalypse is how many

things I want to save.

I mean, this city just went up in

flames.

It's very

focuses the mind. How many things can I

save in one car load

if I know that the police are not going

to let me come back to my home?

Do you save photos? Do you save musical

instruments?

Do you save financial records? What what

is it that you save? You know, it was a

very focusing

question. We're already over it. We

can't even remember the fires.

On that point of

the things that give us meaning

>> Yeah. in our lives,

where do you think we're at as a society

in terms of our

feelings of meaning and purpose and

connectedness to maybe something

transcendent or I was mulling over this

idea the other day. I actually posted it

on on my LinkedIn page of all places.

I said that I'm I think we need to

ladder up to things like anchored and

content in life. Like we you know, we

ladder up we start with ourselves and we

ladder up to family then community then

maybe a mission or a purpose and then

maybe to something transcendent. And it

feels like it because of the design of

our lives and the optimization of it, we

we're increasingly laddering up to just

ourselves. Yeah. I think even in my life

I'm wondering whether

there's like a layer missing like which

is the religious layer or a spiritual

layer.

>> pray?

Mhm, it's a good question.

You come over Friday night and pray with

us.

I'd say I do pray.

That's pretty weak.

>> But it's not a it's not the way that I

see prayer on in movies and stuff. So

that's the thing, right? We have this

idea that somebody puts their hands

together

>> Yeah. and they just believe. Yeah. A lot

of time when you're praying, you don't

really believe.

You're not sure that you're doing

anything sensible. You you feel

ridiculous. Mhm. And that's true even if

you're a believer.

Do you think we need religion?

Yeah.

Said the atheist.

Are you an atheist?

>> Yeah.

But I take religion super seriously.

I don't think we're meant to live

without it.

That's an interesting

conundrum. I don't think so. Everybody

gets hung up on it. I sort of wonder

what their problem is. Please explain.

So you believe that we shh aren't meant

to live without religion. We're meant to

be orientated by something transcendent.

But you don't believe that it's real.

I think that

You know, there's this great trick that

I learned when I was scuba diving.

Which is that your your need to breathe

is triggered by the build-up of CO2 in

your lungs. And there are all sorts of

things you can do to decrease your need

to breathe. One is you can

hyperventilate. And you can get rid of

all of the CO2 that's residual.

You can also inner your lungs to CO2 by

smoking.

You can also breathe out the precious

air that your instincts tell you to hold

in. You can do all these things and then

you can go super deep. You can equal out

learn how to equalize the pressure in

your ears by holding your nose and and

and these techniques.

And suddenly you're far deeper than

you've ever been and you're exploring

the rocks and the fishes and there's a

turtle and there's an eel.

And you get a message, you're out of

air.

And you look up and you see, I am really

far from the surface. This is

terrifying.

That's what happens when you unhook

the proximate, which is air hunger,

from the ultimate, which is the need to

breathe.

So, thirst is proximate to dehydration.

Hunger

is proximate to the need for

nourishment.

In part, religion and prayer

is there to keep us from unhooking

all of these protective things and just

turning life into a hoot.

You can have a hoot without religion.

But if everybody has a hoot, the whole

society collapses.

Some point I think

a president of the United States may

have said that people who defend this

country were suckers.

Something like that.

And I thought, god damn you.

Maybe it's true even.

But how many families have have received

a a flag-draped coffin

and

felt pride.

Like we lost something precious, but we

are part of the American tapestry in a

way that few families can be.

And when we outsmart ourselves, when we

unhook all of these things,

you know, every single young woman has

an idea about what the opportunity cost

of not going on OnlyFans is.

Before we didn't know what the

opportunity cost There was no

measurement of it.

We're becoming too sophisticated. We've

got too much information. We're

deranging ourselves. We're having a

blast.

And we're completely undoing all of the

superstructure of the world.

The number of people who don't have

children or want children or

My kids make fun of me that I just go

around telling people to make babies.

And it's the most normal thing in the

world.

I meet parents who don't harass their

own children to get married and have

families. Like, what are you doing?

The superstructures of the worlds? Yeah.

One being family family. Yeah.

Traditions. Yeah. Things that ground

that connect you to

And what are the symptoms of that

unhooking from the superstructures of

the world?

>> do you care about things How much do you

care about people saying your name four

generations out?

Me? Yeah, you. You're probably asking

the wrong person cuz I just don't think

legacy matters cuz I'm going to be dead.

That's right, but you're

I'm asking all of you who believe that.

Yeah.

That is so sad.

It is so weird

that no one cares about their legacy cuz

they don't see a future.

So, what I'm trying to say is

I'm desperate to get you a future so

that you care.

What needs to happen to get me a future?

Something remarkable. Something utterly

remarkable because it's not it's not

going that way. And that's what that's

what the physics part is. Like I talk

about physics constantly. Physics is the

only thing that's going to get you a

future.

And how how?

Well, right now the big problem is that

we share one atmosphere. Yeah. So

everything that can

all the really bad things, whether it's

pathogens, like imagine something

COVID-like but far worse,

or

climate,

or

uh

radiation,

all of these things

don't know anything about borders.

To an extent, there's a southern and a

northern hemisphere that are separate,

but even that's not

a great border. So we can draw all the

borders on land that we want, but we

still have basically

one or two atmospheres, and I would

really say one.

And we've now gotten powerful enough to

really screw it up.

Right? And so Through nukes or through

carbon emissions?

>> of those things. Right? Everything that

you care about

is on one sphere with one one

atmosphere.

And I think Elon is 100% right. We got

to get to another sphere.

I can't believe

that

he's focused on Mars. I mean, by by

Sure. Focus on the moon, focus on Mars,

focus on chemical rockets.

But throw a couple billion towards

physics, for God's sakes, let us get it

Let us get serious about exploring the

cosmos.

This is our womb. This is not our home.

We're You know You know this song,

Closing Time? No, I don't. Closing Time.

Uh You don't have to go home, but you

can't stay here. I think it's about

birth.

Yeah, it's time to be born.

You can't stay here.

This is completely obvious to me and I

am the only person who who's talks this

way and so I sound like a lunatic and I

get tired of it.

But the real reason it it you know, it's

about the mangoes. It's about the

rambutan. It's about the music.

It's about all the things that I love.

So why would you want to leave?

I want to take it with us and I want to

see what else is out there and I want to

meet people. Why don't you just stay

here and fix this? On it. Cuz you can't.

The odds of fixing one sphere for a

permanent future. You've already talked

about it. You don't care about the

future.

I don't have children yet either so I

don't Yeah, I don't have that.

>> But I

My children don't have children and

their children don't have children.

And I care about them and they're not

even here.

We've got some time left here, don't we?

Well, we did.

Have you looked what's happened in the

last month?

It's coming undone. Pakistan and India.

Do you really think this is the start of

the end?

I I have no idea where I am. Of course

it is.

The World War II order was keeping it

It's like control rods keeping the world

from going super critical. Can't we just

put the rods back together?

Have you looked at who

We had an election with Donald Trump

versus Kamala Harris in the US.

Tell me what's going on in the UK. What

are we doing in the mayoral race for for

New York?

I don't know if you're watching what I'm

watching.

Look at the mess

that's going on in Gaza.

Russia is nuclear.

Israel is presumably nuclear. Pakistan

and India nuclear. The US is nuclear.

Iran is almost nuclear. China is pissed

off about Iran because it was trying to

make a play through the region.

North Korea's watching.

Oh, and and look at the UK in turmoil.

UK is a very nuclear country.

To say nothing of France.

This is not going to go well. We just we

By the way, look at how much is

happening with AI.

Right?

Everything was really stagnant. That's

why I I I have this famous challenge

that I give people, which is

go into a room

and subtract the screens and forget

about style. How do you know you're not

in 1973?

Like drones are the beginning.

Imagine I needed a refill on my coffee

and you know, you did something and a

drone brought me a coffee to not

interrupt the flow.

That would we'd know we weren't in '73,

but in general, drones aren't a big part

of our lives.

And these robots, I've never seen a

humanoid robot actually doing anything

other than on YouTube where it's like

doing the mashed potato. Mhm.

So in general, yeah.

Things were just really stagnant for a

really long time. And then during that

period of stagnation, we we had this

crazy narrative, which is like the

dizzying pace of change is making it

almost impossible to keep up while

things were incredibly stagnant. And so

it just shows you sort of this weird way

in which

our minds can be programmed to

completely ignore what we're

experiencing.

Is there not chance that we'll just

continue to

Okay, if you want to go with chance,

look, until until you're worried about

your great-great-grandchildren,

I don't want to have this conversation

with you.

I want you to start caring about that. I

want you to go to church.

You you're heir to a great tradition.

One of the most important traditions in

the world has to be Christianity.

Cuz both Judaism and Islam are screwed

up over the law, or legal traditions.

Christianity, not so much.

I think I first time somebody

crystallized that for me was Sam Harris.

It's a really important point. But

you're heir to an incredibly powerful

and important tradition. And if we don't

have a Christian substrate, we're in

real trouble because all of our society

is based on on an assumption of a

Christian substrate.

You're advising me to be

Christian in tradition, but not in

necessarily in belief.

Well, this is the thing. You're

alienated because you think that you

have to be a believer in order to go in,

otherwise you're faking it. Yeah.

Get over yourself. That's not how it

works.

>> That's true. That's me just me being

honest. I do think that if I went to a

church and I I sung and I I prayed and

stuff, and I didn't believe, I would

that I'd be like

it'd be it'd be fake. Okay.

Do you imagine that all those people who

go to church are just sitting there 100%

sure that there's a there's a Jesus to

pray to?

Do you know any Christians? Yeah. Yeah,

they're not like that.

They sneak off and do bad things. If

they were confident that Jesus was

watching everything that they were

doing, and they were constantly talking

about how they sin.

I'm a sinner.

Right? It's a very complicated,

interesting

piece of kit.

And my claim is that

you know,

I said the Lord's Prayer as part of

going to high school.

I sat in a church,

a chapel at a high school in LA that had

a stained glass window with an American

soldier trampling a Nazi flag. In the

stained glass window.

It's amazing.

How does this link to

me I was about to say comp

Don't you have faith that we'll just be

able to kind of keep this It feels like

a bit of a standoff.

>> So you're the one with the faith. I'm

the one who's nervous.

You Look, you're the believer.

I'm not going to trust that.

No, no, no. I'm going to get my hands

dirty and try to do something about it.

Do you know what if I think it in part

it's because as you said, I've been

alive for 32 years and through that time

has been relative peace especially in

the Western world. So it's all I've ever

known so I I'm born with this assumption

that this is just kind of how it goes.

There's always threat but we kind of

figure it out. Come to the Pacific

Palisades. It looks like Gaza.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've got some friends that lost

their houses there.

You know. Checked out Lahaina in West

Maui recently?

No.

It's an absolute disaster.

Is AI a protagonist in this story? Is it

sure? In what In what respect?

Well, what do you What do you think

about it? We're going through

going through a wild revolution at the

moment and

I just hear people saying the dumbest

things about it.

What do I think about it? I'm scared I

might say something dumb now but

>> Well, let's try it cuz I I'm going to

say something dumb. I think I Well, I

look at both sides of the coin and I

look at the

opportunity and the and the threat. My

concern when I hear about the CEOs of

the biggest AI companies in the world

talking about this fast takeoff is that

the transition will be too quick for us

to adjust.

And when they say fast takeoff, they

mean that AGI like arrives and it the

rate of its learning accelerates so

quickly that

it really um disrupts the need for

human beings to do a lot of the sort of

jobs we're doing today that are centered

on intelligence.

Which jobs require intelligence? Pretty

much all of them these days because

we've had the industrial revolution

where we've

outsourced a lot of the labor to

machines but I don't think so. Really?

Like I think Yeah, I think a large

portion of our conversation was actually

an LLM.

We didn't actually get to the stuff

outside of the LLM.

You and I are two chatbots for the most

part. You're a good one.

Thank you.

>> I'm on a huge I'm on a huge platform

again, you know?

But my claim is is that that's the

really disturbing part that more or less

we're LLMs. More or less we don't do a

single intelligent thing all day long.

And the reason that they're able to

mimic us is because we don't realize

that intelligence is a last resort for

us.

We try to automate.

Like you know, if you think about

greetings.

Your assistant was very kind. I got out

of a black car that you guys sent around

and

I was greeted with the phrase

"There he is, the man, the myth." And I

knew what was coming next, "The legend."

Right? Because that is a sort of

humorous way of giving an intimate

greeting.

But it's still an LLM.

And I'm not saying that your assistant

is an LLM. I'm saying that more or less

what we do all day long is LLM

interactions.

"Hey buddy, how are you?" "Good, good.

Things have been really busy."

"How about you?" "Well, I got some

travel coming up. Kind of excited about

it, but I have to get through some work

first." "I understand."

That's an entirely scripted

conversation.

That's why I'm trying to say that I want

to do podcasting that is outside of the

LLM model. I don't want to do just

dangerous stupid stuff, but I want to

talk about things that I've never

explored.

Where I don't have something,

you know, ready.

Do you think AI will ever break out of

the

the the LLM, or will it expand into

>> the LLM as well.

I don't See, I think that waiting for

AGI as the problem is a is a bad idea. I

think the problems are going to get here

far before AGI.

I think even that, the AGI expectation

is something we're trained to do.

Do you think AGI is coming? Do you think

we'll survive AGI? Will AGI be good or

bad?

All of that's pre-programmed into you.

Why do you Why are you waiting for AGI?

Did you not

AlphaFold 3? Did you Did you track that?

Do you know about this? Is that Was that

the chess game? The Well, it's the chess

game that became the protein folding

game. Oh, yeah.

>> You want to talk about great games?

Protein folding. Now, that's a game.

I have no no knowledge of this at all.

Okay.

What do you know about proteins?

Very little.

Okay, think about proteins as tiny

machines. Yeah. That There's copying

machine, there's a scissors and a

shearing machine, there's a

a light-making machine, all sorts of

things.

And all of those machines are weirdly

coded

I mean Imagine that you had like a

children's show.

And uh

a bunch of girl superheroes, and they

all had necklaces with

uh 20 different kinds of beads around

their neck. And so, when they needed a

machine, they'd take off the necklace,

they'd throw it into a thing called a

ribosome. The ribosome would take these

20 kinds of pearls, and suddenly it

would build you a car or a spaceship or

a gun or who knows what. Well, that's

That's That's the story of DNA,

RNA, and uh and protein.

The only thing is,

isn't it weird that a linear sequence

suddenly crumples up into a

three-dimensional object that does

something? So, for example,

I don't know if you've ever seen um

these Turkish rabbits that glow in the

dark?

No. Okay. So, they took green

fluorescent protein out of jellyfish.

Yeah.

And they uh

spliced them into the nucleic acids

of rabbits. And the Turks bred all of

these glow-in-the-dark bunnies.

And what that is is a structure, so

there's there's something called

secondary structure in protein where

sometimes you get these spirals called

alpha helices and then sometimes you get

a two-dimensional sheet that's made from

taking

a switchback

in in strings of amino acids. And then

if you wrap that around, you don't have

a beta sheet, you have a beta barrel.

And these beta barrels are the

glow-in-the-dark aspect of green

fluorescent protein, okay?

And

what we didn't know was how a series of

A's, C's, T's, and G's could code for

sequences of amino acids, could form

three-dimensional structures. So if you

just read DNA, you didn't know

well, that's going to be a a sports car.

Yeah.

AlphaFold

figured it out for the most part. Like

to a to an enormous extent. Humans were

stuck there. And what does that mean? It

means that you could

I don't know, you could target your

enemies that have particular regions on

their cell surfaces and you could come

up with proteins that only attach to

them and attach. It could mean anything.

Could mean nanorobots.

I don't know what it means, but my point

is is that that's already here.

And you're not focused on it.

And you're thinking AGI. And the funny

part is is that's your LLM that got

programmed to wait for AGI.

Like how do you know, people that I

think are very smart, much smarter than

me, talk about the Don't listen to them.

Elon? Sure. I mean he's he says that

it's our biggest existential threat is

AI.

Elon

has become the outsourcing for much of

our intelligence. And if Elon means

anything to you,

he's really saying to you, "Don't listen

to me, do something remarkable."

He's saying, "Where is everybody?

Why is there only one Elon?

There used to be lots of them."

Why is there only one Elon?

Yeah, not the right question. Where

Where did all the other Elons go? Same

question, is it not?

No, I think that the Why is there only

one Elon makes Elon feel more singular.

You know, if you ever get a chance to go

to Cappadocia or Bryce National Park in

Utah,

you see what happens, which is that

you'll have a stone that was resting on

the soil,

and suddenly the wind starts to erode

everything except the compactified soil

right under that stone, and you get

what's called a fairy chimney or hood.

And so, the claim is is that sometimes

you get these isolated structures,

and the key point is everything else

eroded away.

We're supposed to have tons of Elon.

And everybody else got taken out.

What or who took them out?

Look at how much trouble Elon has being

Elon.

Look, we keep hearing about him, you

know,

he's on drugs.

Great. Take drugs.

No, I'm not kidding.

Do you know how many amazing people take

drugs?

If you care about jazz, jazz is a whole

you know, it's a history of drugs.

Whenever I'm listening to Ray Charles,

I'm hearing heroin.

Okay.

What are they doing at Burning Man?

They're trying to live

luxuriously under oppression,

simultaneously luxuriously and as just

dirty and disgusting as you'll ever be.

Hopefully, they're having tons of

eye-opening, mind-bending experiences

chasing some way of getting out of the

LLM.

And you know, my feeling about this is

it's not even honest.

I I I believe that Elon, for example,

does understand that population and

growth is really important.

But I also think he just enjoys making

babies.

In a In a In a In a weird way, this idea

of I'm going to have an empire of my

children

is a forbidden concept.

Try explaining that to HR.

You know, it's like, "What did you say

at work?"

So, the key point is Elon is barely able

to be Elon.

Do you think we're overestimating the

impact AI is going to have?

Because people people see this as really

fundamentally transformative. No.

You don't think we're underestimating

it? I think it's going to be

I I I think that what AI means to us is

is bizarre. We've We've come up with

this whole script about AGI and

it's going to take everything we do

that's repetitive

is on the chopping block.

And since almost everything we do is

repetitive,

we don't need to get it to AGI. We just

need to do things where lots of people

create lots of repetitive data,

and then we tokenize it, and we train

the AI on the tokens,

and then for the most part, it says, you

know, it doesn't matter. It can be a

photograph, it can be music,

whatever it is.

Amino acids. Just give me a large enough

data set and let me add it in and you

know,

take a hike for for a little while. I'll

train on it, and then I'll know how to

do that.

You know what it's bad at?

Things that where there isn't much data.

So, I I just I just found out about

these orphan proteins where

like everybody's got a different version

of hemoglobin. Mhm.

But, you know, the the the quaternary

structure of he- hemoglobin is these

four heme groups,

you know, four different proteins around

a central element.

What happens when you have a protein

that has no analog anywhere else? The

The system doesn't have the ability to

learn it.

If If I train you on the blues and you

find out what a 12-bar blues progression

is then you find out that there's a

variation where this you know, the

second bar goes to the fourth rather

than just staying on the one for four

bars. And then sometimes the fourth bar

has a seven in it to create tension.

Okay, so it's going to learn every

single form of the blues

like that.

And because there's a large corpus of

that stuff, it's going to get really

good at blues music.

You know, as a but if you take something

that basically

never happens, it's not going to have an

easy ability to train and give you more.

So, I think that AI

is almost certainly going to transform

the economy because everything that we

we know how to do through education

creates repetitive behaviors.

We don't know how to educate for

creativity and genius. We know how to

educate for doing higher level things.

So, radiology is a great example.

Radiologists are, you know, some of the

first uh in the crosshairs.

I'm going to stare at some imaging

and I'm going to say I think that's a

tumor.

I think that's benign.

And it's going to say just give me give

me give me all of these tokens. Like,

well, they're x-rays, they're cats can

No, no, no, they're just tokens.

So, yeah.

It's going to start to automate away

every repetitive behavior. And then

what's going to be left

is the tiny number of things that aren't

really highly repetitive or things where

we really that a human does it. Very

interesting what's happened with chess.

I don't know if if you've been following

chess.

I loosely understand it mainly because

I've spoken to a lot of AI experts and

they often reference chess

as as an example where

>> It's one of the first things that humans

did that we really cared about that

fell.

So, they've been longer

in the AI

tractor beam than any of the rest of us

in some sense.

How did it fall?

Through Deep Blue, and IBM, and Garry

Kasparov.

But does that mean that people people

aren't interested in chess anymore? What

what what are you saying? No, no, no,

that's the whole point.

So, Magnus Carlsen, the greatest chess

player of our time and perhaps of all

time, was on Joe Rogan.

And Joe asked him the simple question,

"Can your phone beat you?" He's like,

"Yeah, easily."

So, the point is we can't compete

with

I don't know.

Stockfish or what whatever the top chess

programs of our time. I don't know

anymore. But nobody cares about those

programs except for AI experts.

We care about the drama

of

you know, Onon versus Carlson.

Two humans? Two humans, because it's

about us. We're we're very narcissistic

in this way.

And so, there was a period and you know,

this is something that my wife

uh

tried to popularize. So, she said this

thing about the golden age of AI

complementarity,

where the AIs aren't good enough to take

over from us,

but they're amazing tools. And so,

there's a period where we're teamed up,

you know, the prompt engineering

revolution.

They're not good enough to come up with

their own prompts.

And a great example of this that she and

I have been talking about is the cyborg

chess era,

which is a period where humans and the

AIs could form teams that would do

better. But at some point, the AI just

looks at the human and says,

"You're just holding me back."

You've got two children. Yeah.

When they're thinking about their career

prospects, with all that you think and

know and believe about the future that

we're heading towards, what what kind of

career advice would you be

giving to them?

>> Oh, I've given them terrible career

advice.

I give them I gave gave them somewhat

different career advice. So, to my son

my my advice was do the hardest, most

technical thing you possibly can do.

And be prepared to use that ability,

that facility in different ways than

you're

you're honing it. But, train yourself.

With my daughter,

um

I think she cares deeply about people.

And, you know, there's a typical

male-female divide. And I'm not By the

way, I'm not going to talk overly much

about them cuz I try to keep them out.

But, she is, uh, you know, somebody who

is taking same level of analytic ability

but putting it in the service of the law

and trying to help

people who are, you know, really

unfortunate. She's very idealistic. And

so, at some level, the law

is not going to allow us to have AI

lawyers for quite some time. It's not

going to trust anything. We We've got

jury

uh, trials and and judges and a legal

system that's written into our founding

documents.

To the average person

I would say get your board in the water

and prepare to paddle like all get out.

A tsunami of a lifetime is coming, and

nothing your elders have seen is going

to prepare.

There's no good advice to give that's

specific.

Let's put it this way. One of the things

when people tell me about they're moving

from one city to another

I have a phrase that nobody likes, which

is every place is over.

Oh, I'm moving to Austin. Yeah, it's

over. Miami, it's over. Nashville, over.

You know, all these places are over. And

every occupation that is named is over.

I'm going to be a dentist.

Radiologist.

Accountant.

Teacher.

These are all over.

Whatever's coming,

get flexible.

Get good.

Get good on a bunch of different stuff.

Learn how to think across disciplines. I

have no idea what what's going to be

left for us.

But, you know, somebody's going to come

out on top.

And I I hate to tell people that you

should try to come out on top.

I don't think it's healthy to have

everyone trying to be

world-class.

I think you should be able to just have

a life.

I have a golden retriever. I don't know

that it's the greatest golden retriever

in the world.

Sometimes I think it is, but

does a lot of dumb stuff.

But, he's my golden retriever. I just

don't think it I think that this

mania for optimization, like if you look

at your own videos, you'll find

some of the best-performing videos

are

This is how to succeed.

This is how to get anyone you want. This

is how to get out of a bad situation.

People just want

capacity.

But, for what?

Okay, you've optimized your day, you've

optimized your health.

Your social media's optimized.

Now what?

Now what?

I don't know.

What should be then? Say

you know, is it the is it time to just

One would say, "Well, now I One would

incorrectly say, "Well, now I can play

with my golden retriever." And then one

would say, "Well, you should have been

playing with your golden retriever the

whole time."

Let me put it a little differently.

Through some bizarre accident,

I've gotten the chance to meet

incredible people that I don't even talk

about who I have met, you know?

I've got a chance to see the world. I

haven't seen South America, but I've

seen

most of the other continents

other than that

the Antarctic.

I've had a really rich life.

Take somebody who hasn't had those

opportunities,

but they got a chance to have three

kids.

I'm not sure I wouldn't trade places. I

had so enjoyed raising my children.

And it's available to everyone.

It is such a strange thing that we're

talking about optimization and all this

stuff. I I get to think about the the

substrate of the universe, theoretical

physics. I dream about visiting the

stars.

I dream about multiple dimensions of

time, meeting aliens, all sorts of

things.

I still think having kids was like

unbeatable.

I'm so sad that it's over.

I'm so sad that they moved out. I cannot

believe that I was dumb enough to live

in a society that doesn't believe

in having your kids with you your whole

life.

The idea that we look at places where

kids live at home as backwards is beyond

me.

And shout out to the entire Indian

subcontinent.

You know, it's just like

family is everything. They drive me

crazy.

But it it's just meaning is available

for you.

And and again,

yeah,

every time I get a chance to eat a

rambutan,

it's one of my favorite fruits, mangoes,

rambutans, jackfruit,

sitaphal, if you can get custard apple,

the amount of pleasure I get,

I've never had a good custard apple in

the entire time I've lived in the US,

not one.

I've had a frozen one imported from

Taiwan.

You get this cherimoya, just get out of

here, cherimoya. You're not good.

Great custard apple, great soursop.

What a pleasure to be on this earth. And

it's available

to almost anyone.

I just think that you can find meaning

you know,

for God's sakes, go to Spotify if you

have a a connection, if you can afford a

connection to Spotify

and put in Pablo Casals' version of the

Bach Cello Suites.

You're as rich as you need to be.

I've flown private. I'd much prefer to

listen to Pablo Casals playing the the

Cello Suites in economy

than to be to be to be deprived of real

luxury.

I don't know, I just to me, meaning is

everywhere.

I can't swing a cat without hitting

meaning.

Have you always been like that? Or is

that something that you've cultivated?

The the point about being able to swing

a cat and find meaning, so many people

that will be listening now

could swing a

100-mi stick and wouldn't hit meaning in

their lives.

But you seem to be able to find it in

the

the purer things, the more simple

things.

And I'm wondering if that's something

that we can all cultivate with a change

of perspective or if it's

just the way that you've always been.

Why is Joe Rogan such a big deal?

You ever listen to Joe Rogan talk about

pugilism?

Two gentlemen beating the crap out of

each other as poetry,

as chess.

I I could listen to Joe talk about MMA

for days.

Yeah.

You know,

the story of Mighty Mouse, the guy

trapped in some, I don't know, flyweight

division with unbelievable skills who

never gets to meet a formidable enemy.

You know?

Do you think that's a privilege? Do you

think that there's a privilege in being

able to craft a story cuz so much of the

meaning you're describing there comes

from these great stories. And not

everybody is able to craft the story

upon seeing something. You probably look

at this item in front of me, this glass,

and create a story about it that drives

meaning, that makes you feel something.

I worry about its manufacture. How is it

that we got a surface of revolution?

What What is What is the industrial

process? How do I take a picture of this

and get it

a photograph of the machine that made

it? You know that fly that has been

buzzing around us this entire interview?

Do you remember when Obama had a fly?

Yeah, and he caught it and bam.

Yeah.

The confidence of that man.

See, I'd try that and I'd miss and I'd

screw it up in front of millions of

people.

You know, it's like I I took so much

meaning away from that fly.

Were you trying to or is that just a

sort of predisposed

>> did.

No, everyone. Some people would have

gone, "Huh?" How was it that you knew

exactly what I was talking about?

Because it captured a moment.

He was the girl in the red dress.

You know, there's this thing that women

say, "Not every woman can wear red."

Well, not every man

can grab a fly with confidence.

I

I think I think we all see this.

I think we all see beauty everywhere.

Do you remember that movie American

Beauty with the the plastic bag that

gets in the

air funnel going up?

And the key point is the ability just

to see beauty wherever you find it.

You know, everything behind you means

something to me.

The letter B

uh strange to me that there's only one

phonetic alphabet and that every

phonetic alphabet is descended from it.

You know? right.

I I I

I basically view everything as a

hyperlink. I just want to click on the

world and see where it goes to.

Not everybody does, though.

But, we do.

They don't make the step is what I'm

saying, cuz people would see the bee and

nothing would cross their You know, it's

it's funny.

>> There's an absolutely horrible account

that has been just dogging me for years

trying to make my life miserable.

And A social media account?

>> Yeah. Doesn't matter. Yeah.

And the person said, "You know, one

thing I just never understand is

he's not

he's not hawking a book.

He

He's just talking. What Why are his

numbers high?"

And the answer is everybody cares about

this stuff.

They want an invitation.

One of the funniest things that gets

said about me on social media is he goes

on forever and he never says anything.

And then like I look at the word clouds

of things that I I've talked about and

people are just Googling everything

incessantly.

You know, if you didn't know who Pablo

Casals was, now you do. Now you know

what a real cello sounds like.

Um

I don't know. I just

I can't believe that I'm so far through

this life and that there's so little

left.

I can't believe this doesn't go on

forever.

Is that all you? Yeah.

My people just got hit.

And

you know, you want to talk about the

river and the sea.

That river is not the Jordan River and

that sea is not the Mediterranean.

The Arab world stretches from the

Atlantic with Morocco

right up to the What is it?

Shatt al-Arabia waterway that divides

Iraq from Iran.

And I don't think

this is stable.

There is no way in which

we should be fighting like this. This is

ridiculous.

Trump Trump used the F-word.

I mean, he's getting taking a ton of

crap.

Why would you use the F-word? Well,

well, isn't it interesting people view

Trump as so tacky?

You know, he's he's got this Queens sort

of bluster. He doesn't doesn't reek of

uh

finalist clubs at Harvard or

Skull and Bones or whatever.

No.

Trump doesn't use the F-word for a

reason. He needs it once in a blue moon,

and it better mean something.

And he said this to Iran, and he said

this to Israel. These two two countries

have been

fighting for so long.

They don't know what the [ __ ] they're

doing.

He didn't make a mistake.

The rest of the world has just forgotten

how to calibrate.

What do you see Trump in? How is he

clothed?

He's almost always in a suit and tie.

And he almost never says the F-word.

And it's carefully calibrated to get

everybody's attention, and we're so

asleep that we don't even hear it.

This is World War III,

and it's already started.

Biden was there

in the Oval Office

non compos mentis.

And I I being told, "Don't worry,

there's a committee that's replaced

him."

Because I was talking about the fact

that he can't be president.

I I just don't know what we're doing.

I'm so mystified by everybody else. You

know, it's like Elon makes sense to me.

I'm not Elon. I'm very different person,

but at least Elon makes sense to me.

Not 100%, but 98% Elon makes sense to

me. It's everybody else that I'm

completely confused about. What part of

what Elon is saying makes so much sense

to you?

Oh, jeez, everything. One, we have to

have babies. We have to keep going.

Two,

it can't all be about problems.

You have to be excited to be alive every

morning.

You have to work your ass off your whole

life. You know what one of the most

beautiful things that ever happened?

Somebody telling Elon that he was the

world's richest human being.

He said, "Huh, it's interesting.

Okay, back to work."

Amazing, right?

There's no reward

that he can't have

more of by stopping work and enjoying

his wealth except doing stuff.

And

I was born in this country.

My

parents were born in this country.

My grandparents on one side were not,

but my grandparents on the other side

were.

Elon is so American.

That cowboy spirit

that

he does all sorts of stuff I can't

stand. I don't want to see one more of

those Pepe memes ever.

I really don't. What the [ __ ] is his

problem? Okay? I don't know him at all.

But Elon at his best is is the United

States.

You know?

Anything is possible here.

And we And we just waste our lives on

interpersonal drama.

He wastes his life to an enormous extent

as a troll.

I cannot That's The part of him that I

don't understand is one, why he's not

focused 100% on physics.

I think he sees it as going through Grok

and AI. He doesn't want to trust humans.

I think he sees Mars as energizing to

engineers and the stars are enervating

to engineers because the science There's

no amount of engine- You can't engineer

your way to the stars with the science

we have.

But

he's he's being a complete [ __ ] when it

comes to science and he's being a total

hero when it comes to engineering.

Um

but he is the quintessential American.

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A second ago you said you can't believe

it doesn't go on forever. Yeah.

You or the universe or I can't believe

my story doesn't go on forever. Look,

I've never died before, so I have no

experience with it. So, as as far as I

know,

I've always been alive.

And it will always go on that way. But,

there's another thing that, you know, I

I've talked about occasionally,

which is I'm not the most

public-spirited human being.

You know, I I am somebody who will take

the last

the last rambutan.

You know, and I know that you're not

supposed to do that in almost any

culture on Earth, but sometimes it's

just sitting there and it bothers me.

Okay? So, I'm not the I'm not the

classiest person on Earth.

But, I'll tell you something. If you

have a kid, and you have a choice about

eating the rambutan yourself or giving

the rambutan to your child, this it's a

no-brainer. You'll you'll enjoy the

rambutan so much more if you give it to

your kid.

And you'll see.

And that's the way that which this goes

on forever.

It's great. I mean, just

how many young people do I have to yell

at?

Well, I don't know if I want to have

kids. I don't want to bring anyone into

this horrible world.

Why do you have kids? It both is it I

can see it personally bothers you.

Do you have any idea how much hate there

is right now for Israel?

Do you have any idea how destabilizing

this action against Iran was?

Do you have any idea how many people

have suffered for how long under the

mullahs?

We are being cheated of Persia.

I'm not talking about

Iran for the Persians.

I'm talking about

we are cheated

of Persia. The entire planet.

One of the greatest societies on Earth

taken offline.

I Look,

You're catching me on the wrong week.

I I don't want to dwell on it.

Th- This is just incredibly

irresponsible. We're not going to

survive this.

Israel is certainly not going to survive

this.

If the Abrahamic world does not get its

head out of its ass.

If the Christian world does not start to

stand up for itself without becoming

this Christ is king nightmare.

You know, I was in Tel Aviv before this

all happened. And I I just said from the

stage, make the Middle East Christian

again.

D- Does nobody understand their role is

sort of my question.

How can you have Bethlehem without a

strong Christian presence?

Have you ever been to the Church of the

Holy Sepulchre? No.

Can I give you another assignment? Yeah.

Get off your ass and go. You got the

money.

Walk the stations of the cross.

And for God's sake, stop with the issue

about belief.

You can pray like the rest of us. We're

not sure if we're praying We're not sure

if the thing is hooked up and anyone's

listening.

You have the right to go back even with

doubt, even with knowledge.

And you have the right to believe about

it tomorrow, you know, where where

you're not going to be, but people are

going to be mentioning your name.

When you say that your your people are

under attack, who are you referencing as

your people?

I would in general there's several

groups of people that I would describe

as my people. The Jews would be one.

Dyslexics would be another. Americans

would be another.

Scientists would be another.

It depends on on what these think. But

right now I'm thinking about the Jews

and I'm thinking about the fact that the

social media

businesses have lost complete control of

uh the bot farms. And we're just seeing

this un- I I I feel like I'm living

through the 1930s again.

I We've seen this movie before.

It doesn't end well.

You know, what happened in Gaza is an

unbelievable tragedy.

And that tragedy was partially

architected by the United States of

America shoving a two-state solution

down the throats

of Palestinian Arabs who absolutely do

not want a two-state solution.

And the creation

in part of the situation where Israel

has a hand, the US has a hand, the

Palestinian Arabs have a hand.

The creation of Hamas

and the and the promotion of this just

unbelievable genius Sinwar,

the leader of Hamas, who is continuing

to best Bibi Netanyahu from the grave.

You know, it's just an amazing feat.

Nobody reads anymore, as you know.

Um

There's an old Sherlock Holmes story

called The Problem at Thor Bridge. Ever

heard of it? No.

So, you're British. Um

Sherlock Holmes gets called in on a case

in which

um

there's a murder.

And the murder

is traced The murder is traced to this

gentleman who still exists.

Uh

What Sherlock Holmes figures out is that

it's not a murder, it's a suicide in

which the gun

will

fall into the river at Thor Bridge

because it's tied to a weight.

And the person uses the suicide

to frame someone else.

And it's just one of these genius little

vignettes. And that's what Sinwar was.

He was a genius. He He knew he was going

to die. Who is Sinwar? Sinwar is a

person who who's committed suicide.

Sinwar's suicide was an IDF assisted

suicide. I wrote about this almost

instantly after the October 7th

invasion.

It didn't make any sense that Gaza would

undertake

such an act against Israel given the

asymmetry.

And what this mirrored was that before

the 1990s

So you think Sinwar committed suicide to

then cause

the people of Gaza to invade Israel? No,

no, no. I'm sorry.

Sinwar would be happy enough for all the

Gazans to die.

And so

what he did was he architected a

situation in which Israel would be

compelled to respond using the wrong

tools.

He tricked Israel. And I you know, I'm

very confident to to talk about this

because if you check my old tweets, I

say IDF assisted suicide

and Munchausen by proxy and Zukswang,

right? And I said these are the concepts

familiarize yourself because Israel is

going to invade

Gaza.

And I knew what was going to happen

because took me a like why would you do

this? It doesn't make sense from

first order logic, but third and fourth

order logic you like oh, of course it

makes sense.

This is hybrid war. The most important

thing for Sinwar is video.

Why?

Look at the effect of the video.

The video of Gaza

has turned the world to an extent

against Israel that's sort of

inconceivable.

There's a doctrine called hybrid

warfare.

And I think it came out of

the US in the early 2000s.

And it says that the kinetic component

of warfare, the killing, the actual

shooting and the planes and the bombs

and all this kind of stuff,

is

not the major component.

The social media is really important.

The video is important. The memetic

complex is important.

And

Israel has an advantage over the Gazan

Arabs

in kinetic warfare.

And Sinwar knew that. And he was like,

"Brilliant.

All we need to do is force Israel to

come after us." And this is this thing I

was going to say before the 1990s,

we had a spate of killings

of policemen firing on people who had

pulled toy guns on them.

And we would we would say things and I

remember this like, "Whatever you do,

don't point a toy gun at a policeman.

You're it's Don't you realize what's

going to happen?"

And then somebody coined the phrase

police assisted suicide.

The policeman is the instrument.

That's what I knew was going to happen.

And for better or for worse, BB just

couldn't figure out

where he was.

And BB was dumber and Sinwar was

smarter.

Is there Is there any way back from

here?