Kanye's whole thing is I don't give a

[ __ ] art is something that you would

really fight for if you love it even if

your message is misunderstood like white

lives matter he's an artist that likes

War

one of the founders of Rockefeller

Rockaway he discovered Jay-Z Kanye West

and so many others one of the biggest

Pioneers in hip-hop I took Jay-Z and

shocked him to every single label and

they all said no I had to do it myself I

really want to understand why

Rockefeller won I did Partnerships with

my artists I'm gonna give you all the

rights to my record my art and then

you're gonna give me 10 of my art that

just didn't make sense to me that host

end of your career the Rockefeller

chapter

do you have any regrets surrounding that

one I wouldn't I wouldn't have been so

generous with Jay it was more friendship

for me and money for him but he did

things that I thought he would never do

what are those I'm just saying this let

me just say this

it's the hardest moment in your life

well I'll hear that

that breaks my heart

singer actress Aaliyah is killed in a

plane crash I tried to play out what

that would feel like don't do it you

don't want you don't want to go there

it's a it's a pain that you don't

couldn't understand

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I always believe that in order to

understand a man you have to understand

their earliest context because as

childhood psychology often asserts

that's really when

um our character and our our shape is

formed so can you take me back to your

earliest context the context that's most

relevant to who you went on to become in

your life back in Harlem

um on 109th and First Street

my first like real memory of who I am is

I remember being like four

and I was in Nursery School

and the teacher yelled at me

or I got in trouble

and I felt embarrassed

I felt uncomfortable

and I remember saying to myself at as a

four-year-old I'm never going to feel

embarrassed again

ever I didn't like the way it felt you

know like when Fred Flintstone used to

get yelled at and he started shrinking

and I just was like I'm never going to

put myself in a position to let any

adult teacher whatever

I'm never going to be embarrassed I just

hated that I remember not liking that

feeling and I think that was the last

time I felt it

pause

and how did that so that presumably

impacts your relationship with authority

figures it just means I don't care what

anybody thinks

so no matter what regardless to what

you're not going to make me feel as less

of who I am I know who I am so there was

no way that teacher was going to make me

feel small just because they were a

teacher and I was a student there was no

way that they were going to make me feel

less of myself I was never going to let

another person make me feel bad about

myself ever again the last time that

happened I was four years old but what I

saw was as I got older that this is the

way people live their life fear what

people think of them and that's the

reason why they don't say what they feel

that's the reason why they internalize

and that's the reason why they end up

depressed so as long as you're

expressing yourself as long as you don't

care as long as you're not hurting

anybody there's no pain to feel it's

almost like at that point I sprayed this

thing called I don't give a [ __ ] what

anybody's thinking spray and I think

that's been the most important thing is

not to care about the Judgment of other

people

what about your parents could they tell

you

what to do

well

my of course as a child but my mom died

when I was 16 so I was still a child so

at that point I was making money you

know the last time anyone could tell me

what to do would be the last time

someone was paying my bills so if you

paying my bills then you could tell me

what to do and I've never put myself in

a situation like that as an adult for

someone to be able to tell me what to do

they could give me advice

my parents could give me advice but you

know at 16 or 17 after my mom died I was

getting more money than my dad

you know so at that point it's hard to

listen to people that are older than you

that hasn't that haven't got to the

place you want to go and as a child you

become very arrogant when you can do

adult things

but my mother was the one that taught me

to never ever

let someone tell you something that you

don't believe without saying how you

feel about it

and you know almost where made it to

where we might have had almost a

somewhat disrespectful relationship

because I would talk back

but you know in school I would talk back

if I didn't agree with you I was letting

you know

and I'd be like my mother taught me that

you know what I mean

so I was basically taught to talk back

you're a father now when you when you

look back yeah yeah I should be a

grandfather I just you know I just my

last my newest child uh uh you know I

met I had it 150. I'm 51.

five kids

yeah last time I counted when you look

back on

um your own relationship with your

parents and how now that you're you know

you're a father you've got kids of your

own how in hindsight did that shape you

the relation to the dynamic between your

parents but also their relationship with

you is there anything you look back and

say well because of that I became this

oh everything I have a tattoo on my arm

that says thanks for making me the man I

am so yeah I got my sense of humor from

my father and I got my hustle from my

mother

period and yeah you become a combination

of the people that influence you the

most that's why you have to be important

I mean it's important that you're

cognizant of what you do when you

realize that people are actually

influenced by you you know what I mean

you never want to do something that you

don't want the people you love to do

because they're going to do exactly what

you do

so I got a little bit of that you know

my mom she was like you know an

entrepreneur she always made sure I had

everything she sold things you know I

mean not drugs but like you know like uh

clothes

you know what I mean but like at flea

markets and stuff and she was real

Innovative about it

she did this thing once he went to a

flea market and she took a hula hoop and

put a curtain on it and we would stand

up and it made into a dressing room and

that day she sold all of her jeans she

made 800 that day I remember at aqueduct

so you know I've always had that hustle

and bustle for my moms and and and and

doing things different

at an early age made me know that that's

the only way you could do it right like

standing in like if you don't stand out

then you're just atmosphere in a crowd

but when you do things different than

people are drawn to

one of the things I've thought about

since growing up is how a lot of the

things that I value most as

characteristics of myself probably came

from what the world would consider to be

mistakes that my parents made so one of

them being like not being around me

makes you independent or you know

maybe being a workaholic maybe makes the

kid a workaholic or maybe not having

money gives you drive when you think

about

the things that wouldn't be in that like

parenting Handbook of how to raise a

child that ultimately served you

and made you you know the man you are

today is there anything there where you

go a mistake made me brilliant

yeah

every mistake that I had to fix made me

bring it make sure boss because that's a

boss's job is to like untie knots

um

you know your job as a parent

is to make sure your children never have

to go through the same problems that you

went through is to break Cycles But

first you kind of have to understand

what that cycle is so as an adult that

had children I was you know I ain't

gonna like [ __ ] on my dad but

if I were him I would have been in my

life a little more

and you can look at a like you know

there's this thing like you know if your

father's an alcoholic you could either

become an alcoholic because of it or

just never touch drinks it depends on

how things affect you so

you know the way he parented and the way

I knew and I was conscious about the way

it made me feel I knew what not to do to

my children or what not to you know be

absent or how when I should be

consistent

you know the cycle that I've wanted to

break was that cycle where

you know your mother tells you not to

like your father and your father's

telling you certain things about your

mother and those are the people that you

love the most and only thing you want as

a child is for your parents to get

together that's all you want so you know

it took me to have five kids to have a a

good

um relationship

a good um

you know one that's not so traumatizing

for the child a functional relationship

it took me five to to be fifty to get

there but each one of those children the

other four children I knew that I was

like damn I I you know even though I've

been able to make it where they've never

had to sell drugs and they've had the

best educations and lived that one

percent of life but I I wasn't able to

break that cycle the thing that hurt me

the most was the separation of my

parents and the beef I wasn't able to

break that cycle so

you know I I wasn't gonna stop till I

did it was almost like with every child

I became a better parent but knowing

that the breakup of my mother and father

affected my mother for the rest of her

life which affected me

you know what I'm saying and I didn't

want to ever do that to my to my um to

my children and then also being a

visiting dad is whack

you want to wake up with your child you

want to watch your child grow and evolve

you know buying and and providing

physical things a kid doesn't even care

about that that's not currency to a kid

they don't even know about money until

you tell them about it

all they care about is your time

and that's the most valuable thing is

you know the love that you can give your

child

so you know at some point you might

think okay I'll sacrifice time with my

child because I got to make money to

support them

but the kid don't care about that

you know the kid just wants you to be

there

to support him did you learn did you

learn about emotions and affection and

how to express yourself from from your

parents was that was that something that

you were able to do as a young man well

yeah I mean I wouldn't put a title on it

like oh this is affection but I've

always been able to express myself in

any way

you know whether I'm crying or whether

I'm cuddling

you know I don't have any uh problems

about being and showing what I feel in

that moment

unless it's the police

you you'll you're 16 16 years old when

your mother passes away um

yeah

how does how does that change you from

everything I've read about that time in

your life she was

she was everything and I read that you'd

said that that was your biggest fear

when you were a young man was losing

your mother yeah

yeah it made me a beast it made me feel

this you know it's like a gift in the

curse

of facing your nightmares early because

then you have nothing else to be scared

of

so you know my mom's died

again I didn't really care

if I die because I'd be like oh should I

I'd be with my moms so I didn't I had no

fear of anything at that point and I

knew how I would react

you know because sometimes you you don't

know how you're going to react in

certain situations so I knew how how I

could get over it not get over it but

live with it

and also it makes you appreciate what a

real problem is you know like

you know like after my mom's died I was

like yo nobody's dying I don't even want

to hear about it it could be fixed I'm

not gonna ever be unhappy

unless it has something to do with

Health death or freedom

you know what I'm saying but other than

that nothing's gonna ever make me worry

like I'm not going to be like a lot of

people overreact to problems because

they never had any they don't know what

a problem is and they make something

that's like feel like it's the worst

thing in the world

and I'm not gonna ever do that because I

appreciate when things are good

you know I'm saying it'd be like just in

any second some [ __ ] could happen that's

[ __ ] up so in between those moments

that you can't control you have to enjoy

life to the fullest

100 but sometimes you have to actually

go through some pain early so you

understand how to appreciate life moving

forward same thing of me losing my girl

losing Aaliyah

you know

it wasn't a pain I thought that I would

ever feel of you know you don't

anticipate like losing your girl but

once you do you once you get a girl

again you don't let go and you

appreciate love

you know [ __ ] has to be taken from you

things things that are free you find are

Priceless when they get taken from like

freedom and people you love

you know and then you're like what was I

complaining about you know I was rich I

was wealthy because I had love and now I

don't and there's no money in the world

I could bring it back

you know once your health is gone

it don't matter you will spend any

amount of money to get your health back

if you're sitting in the bed compromised

once your freedom is taken

you'll spend any amount of money to get

out of jail all of it because you can't

spend none of it while you're in jail

other than on commissary which is

and then again lose a friend lose

someone you love you'll do you if you

could do any you'd spend anything in the

world to get that person back

but then you have to actually lose them

to realize how much and how how lucky

you were to have them so I try to

appreciate life in the moment

I do appreciate life in the moment

because I'll be like what if this was

taken from me then I'd be sick

you know 16 years old losing your mum in

that context in Harlem

how do you how do you how do you grieve

that nobody teaches you how to grieve

you sell drugs sell drugs yeah

that's how I grieved that was like yo

I'm gonna go get money you know what I'm

saying and you know at at that point in

that moment I thought because I was

younger that money

meant happiness

so I would do anything for it in that

moment you know I mean like you know I

was selling drugs I was risking my

freedom

and my life and hurting other people

so that's how I did it you know just

occupying my time and moving forward

period it's not it's not grieving or is

that a distraction I don't know what you

call it at that age it's called and

getting through it so yeah it's probably

a distraction

you know but again like what did you

want to do at 16.

to me

you know I didn't have the money for a

therapist or the hindsight to go get one

in that moment

so I just sold drugs is that what you

think in hindsight you needed if I

didn't mean anything I like where I'm at

now I think every lesson that I've

learned to get me to this place has been

perfect for me and for the world the

world learns as I learn

that's the guy that I've become

I don't call them losses I call them

learning experiences but when you do

that publicly and you could always land

or you always land back on your feet the

rest of the world learns from that

Tim Grover who um trained MJ and Kobe

said to me that you know you're looking

to people's early years and you'll find

you'll find trauma and things that have

happened in pain and it will be the

often be responsible for their as he

called it their Light Side the thing

that makes them great and famous and

resilient and successful and win the

gold medals but then that that thing is

also responsible for their dark side

which can be the you know it can be the

insecurities it can be the the things

that are less um admired do you agree

with that and if so

um what is your dark side

well

you know I think it's natural to be

worried when things are going good for a

second because it's happened where

things are going good and I've been

devastated but in that moment I say it's

normal for you to think like that you've

been through it

I think the only dark side is people

triggering me that you know

when I feel someone's not doing right by

me

or by people that I love

I I can get triggered pretty I get

triggered

it's hard to control that side

why why can you get easily triggered

I probably because I've there's been

things that have been bothering me

for a while

you know when you're in the street you

have to make examples of people

so any kind of weakness means that more

people are it makes you like a magnet

for paint like people trying to rob you

or think you saw for whatever

especially when you run a crew you know

so you always have to be the strongest

you have to be willing to do anything

that you're sending someone else to do

you know what I'm saying so in the

street you know it's it's swing now

think about it later it's survival mode

and what happens is just because you're

out of survival mode your muscles and

your Natural Instincts still do survival

mode at times so I've had to get therapy

to you know be like yo you're not in the

street to be able to say that like yo

you're not in the street so you don't

have to deal with things that way

anymore

but if you've seen in my career you know

it'd be a lot of yelling because I would

rather put like when I'm really yelling

it would be me like in the street out of

put my hands on you so instead of me

yelling

I mean instead of me putting my hands on

you and going to jail I would just yell

or snap

so I had to actually because it's a

different game in the street than it is

in business

and the rules are different like you

know being disrespectful is almost part

of like traditional corporate business

the [ __ ] that you do every day in

corporate business we could get you put

in a trunk in the street

and if you come from the street and you

have to be like oh that hurt like I

would have really I can't hurt you I

can't hit you I can't do nothing I can't

defend myself I got to go through a

lawyer for this

it could become traumatized and you got

to internalize a lot so disrespect

triggers me

and you know people trying to

control a narrative by tricking you into

thinking you're not great when you

really are you know I mean people have

tried to convince me I'm not a superhero

and I know I am

I'm Batman

why is that an important belief for you

because I'm always fighting for the

culture that's what a superhero does

you know or general

like you know back in the Roman days no

matter how much money you had you were

not famous unless you fought for your

country and won a war for your country

for something you love

you know and for me I'm a person that

loves a lot not just country I Love

Culture I love a lot I love art there's

so much for me to fight for

you know what I'm saying it's like I

just can't look the other way

for things that affect me and my culture

and things that people I love it's hard

I think a lot of conditioning happens

when you see things are wrong and you

got to look the other way for survival

and I've just never been that guy and I

don't come from a family or a bloodline

of people that have ever been abused

that have ever been bullied I come from

a bloodline of people that bully the

bully that oppressed the oppressor like

we look for people that think they're

tough because we really think they are

not just based on the overcompensation

you know what I mean

so it's not in how you like project

project yourself or act it's really

about what you do

if I lost you when you were 16 17 after

your mother passes what you're going to

be when you're older I just said great

I'm gonna be great I'm gonna be Dame

Dash

I didn't know what I was gonna be

at 16 I just knew I was going to be

great

how could you be so sure

how could you not be so sure I'm Dame

Dash you know what I'm saying like my

narrative's never been losing you know

when you start out winning

and that's all you know even when it

appears you lose if you're a winner

you're like I could I just can't see

myself losing

so no matter what it's gonna I'm gonna

end up winning I'll learn from it it'll

be be patient but I just don't see I

don't see losing you realize that not

everybody has that mindset right just

too bad for them

I don't understand why

do you understand where you got that

mindset from I'm from Harlem it's just a

harlem thing I think my family

you know and just winning like you know

being that kid in school that was like

good at all the sports Becca fight could

dance funny

you know what I mean

I just don't see myself taking a hell

that belief has not

built built over time like got stronger

and reinforced by success over over and

over again like building like this

building of evidence about what you're

capable of and who you are

has it developed or was it just always

solid I just never thought I wasn't

gonna win like I I don't know I mean

like for someone to ask me and say like

that's crazy that you always think

you're gonna win I really think that's

crazy that you don't think you're always

gonna win like the way I see the

opposite I just don't understand why I

get into a fight that you think you're

gonna lose and life is a fight every day

so why would I get into anything

thinking I'm not going to make history

I'm like a little behind schedule for me

right now

what do you mean by that

well

again in the beginning of my career

everything I did was for money I was all

about the money

and then this thing happened where it

just became all about the art

and being able to sustain doing what I

want being happy and being able to

create

becoming a starving artist and just

being someone that not exploits artists

but actually is the artist I was doing

it the business way and I was getting

where I needed to go as far as touching

pop culture but the people around me

were making it where I wasn't happy

about it didn't feel good

and I decided to do it the artist's way

so back then I didn't know I would be

like [ __ ] I just want to be an artist

I thought if I was just doing things for

money like imagine would I be in the

music business right now if I just was

like exploiting everyone that's not

smart

you know and taking advantage like if I

took advantage of Jay-Z which I probably

could

he didn't know anything about the

business

he might try to act like that now but I

trust you know what I'm saying so you

know

if I was that person that would do

anything no Integrity no morals or

Scruples I'd have billions and billions

and billions of dollars I wouldn't have

taught my artists how to leverage their

celebrity for their own products I would

just leverage their celebrity for my own

you're gonna say I don't I like I teach

my artists how to be independent of me

you understand what I'm saying that's

why the artist around me end up like

usually it's the businessman that has

more money than artists right the

artists are the ones that have more

money than the business man obviously

I'm not the businessman you know what

I'm saying I once I have the bread I'm

the artist it's funny how artists become

businessmen they kick the heart at

certain points

or who's really an artist or what a real

artist is but to me a real artist is

someone that won't do nothing for money

which is me I won't do nothing for money

I make money off the things that I love

to do

of the art and I respect the process of

Art

you feel me that's why you see when I

came in I I know it's I know the process

but not of one art of a lot so I know

the fashion art the music art the comic

you know even though I don't draw but

you know all of these different things I

tried I learned them from to where I

could do it independently and I don't

have to Outsource

at the cost of the timeline which could

have been you're saying could have been

faster if you if you chosen to exploit

people right

and that's a trade-off that a lot of

people

wouldn't have taken they would have

taken yeah that's funny measurable yeah

they're on pills

now they're not happy now they're paying

for sex it's just I won't do it

for the first part of your career you

were

you were on the other side right you

were the businessman you were you were

working with artists like Jay-Z and

Kanye and many many others

um and you weren't in sort of artist

mode as you kind of see yourself now

with the comic books and the movies and

the music and everything else you're

doing everything you're doing children's

books the the list was so long that I I

thought just it's almost it's like I

said it's Insanity it's ridiculousness

the amount of things that inspire me

that I think I could actually do better

than everyone else

when you look back though on that and

that period from you know from being

that 16 year old you go through school I

heard you got kicked out of school a lot

okay I got kicked out of one school and

then I dropped out of the next but

um you got kicked out a lot of schools I

can understand why from what you said

about that four-year-old kid that why

would I want somebody that doesn't have

as much money as I want to make trying

to tell me what to do

and how you think they felt when I would

tell them that like my car is better

than yours I'm 16. you're the principal

you know what I'm saying then you park

in the principal spot one time as well

that's what got me kicked out of two

schools

it's so crazy because you know

there would be kids at the real wild

stuff in school that did not get kicked

out but question this entitlement of

certain kinds of people

just because someone gives them

Authority doesn't mean I'm acknowledging

it

that Journey that led you from there

from being kicked out of that school to

you know signing Jay-Z building that

career and all of that success around

Jay-Z and Kenny what was when you look

back at why you why you versus everyone

else what did you have to to spot

Jay-Z's talent to spot Kanye's talent to

build them into stars to create

Rockefeller alongside them what was it

about you in hindsight the

characteristics of you as a person that

made you capable of doing such an

endeavor

I mean I just wasn't taking no like if I

believe someone's gonna win I'm 100 sure

that they will

and then I fight and make sure that they

do did you have history and music before

Jay's I mean you've done you

've been together music business yeah I

got to be I was in the music since I was

19. so I went from drug dealing to the

music business

do you need any qualifications to join

to become part of the music business no

you could be the dumbest [ __ ] in

the world that's why so many people that

really

you see I mean in the music business the

traditional music business they are

figureheads that like if you ask the

average president of a you know label

about p l and quarterly you know they

won't know [ __ ] about that they're just

there because a white company or another

culture can't say that they're running

black people with a white face so you

need a figurehead there

someone that will listen to what that

person is telling them what to do

and that's why that industry was no

bueno for me I'm like first of all I

never got hired in that industry I came

as a partner but the funny thing is they

couldn't recognize me as a partner

because they were not and I couldn't

recognize them as generals they'd be

like yo how are you going to talk to

you're a soldier how could you talk to a

general like that without thinking your

teeth are going to get cracked

you understand what I'm saying

and they didn't understand that like you

don't understand I own this [ __ ] you

work for somebody

talk to me like the boss and it's crazy

how you will talk to the people that

don't own [ __ ] like the boss

they just couldn't understand what that

meant to own my actual Equity the own

have ownership not had sell my rights to

something and then let somebody else pay

me for my work that does not logically

make sense and it never did to me you

know what that means like you have a

grown ass man saying and being proud to

say I'm signed

does that actually sound right I'm

signed to another man

no it doesn't but they've actually

programmed us to believe it is you're

going to give me an advance I'm gonna

give you all the rights to my record my

everything that I've done my art and

then you're going to give me 10 of my

art

that's what the music business is or

eight percent if you're lucky

that just didn't make sense to me and I

never did I did Partnerships with my

artist with the artists I work with in

the businesses that I do now

just because I want people to maintain

their manhood

like I don't ever say you signed to me

I'm I'm not letting I don't like the way

that sounds

so

you know even the verbiage in the the

whole thing just your masters

you know what I'm saying all of those

things are like trigger words you know

they're unconsciously control us

can we smoke here if you want it yes is

this I don't know is that a fire alarm

didn't know

you're not even from here man I have no

idea don't even get out of here that's

just you just you just we're not in the

hotel okay is it is it gonna go off

because you think we'll go up I have no

idea what that is it should be fine it

is what it is it is what it is you know

I'm trying to I really want to

understand why Rockefeller won and you

know it's because it was real because it

was real it was real and I wasn't having

it

Rocco they weren't no one wanted to sign

think about how this is the record

industry

I took Jay-Z and shocked him to every

single label and they all said no I had

to do it myself where did they send her

either he was too old he raped too fast

they just didn't have it

so we were like we'll do it ourselves so

that's the thing remember when I said

before people been telling me I'm not a

superhero and I know I am

right so if someone told you that you

couldn't sell companies and do the

things that you did because to them it's

superhero [ __ ] it's a dream that they

can't come true for them

you feel me like you've done things that

people want to do

and I guarantee you if you came with

that idea that certain people they'd say

give you 30 reasons why you can't do it

the reason why Rockefeller was good the

reason why I did what I had to do was

because I knew how to have a clear dream

without anyone obstructing it I knew how

to visualize winning

so if somebody told me you can't do that

because of this get out my dream because

that's not the last thought I'm gonna

have with my dream because my mind is

powerful and whatever I see in my mind I

can make happen so what I'm living in is

my dream

I dreamed about coming to London right

now

in the past

this was a visualization I didn't know

exactly what I'd be doing in London but

I visualized doing a lot of [ __ ]

talking to a lot of people

you understand what I'm saying so if you

can't visualize winning then you will

not win

and the average person because we're

programmed not to win 99 of us are

we don't think anyone can so when

someone does it's amazing but it's just

a program as soon as you're born you

know I've said this before you don't

know about fear what to be scared of

until someone tells you what to be

scared of

and a lot of what people tell you to be

scared of is to actually be successful

and dream and be independent and be on

your own

you know what would you like if you were

a conniving person that wanted to take

over the whole world and you had that

kind of power but that you had to

program everybody the first thing I

would do is take everybody's kids as

soon as they wake up and program them

for eight hours a day on what I want

them to do I want you to go to college I

want you to get a job I want you to work

until you're 70. I want you to be

unhappy I want you to have a a debt I

want you to go get a loan to go to

college and then I want you to work that

off and if you don't if you don't go to

college then you make it you you make

your parents dreams into a nightmare

most kids only go to college for their

parents

you understand what I'm saying then you

pay for that

so when I look at hieroglyphics I never

see school I think parents love their

children the most no one's going to love

their kids more than the people that

made them those should be the people

teaching them

why would you put a kid in a in a in a

room

behind a desk when the sun is out

for their whole entire childhood

not put them in front of water or Ocean

or anything that inspires them dim

lights if you notice schools jails and

hospitals all look exactly the same

why wouldn't it be in something

inspiring

why

because it's a program to keep us

controlled

you have to when you have to have order

of masses you have to have them all

doing the same thing so you can know

what they're doing you can monetize what

they're doing you know how they're doing

it

so at a very early age I was like yo all

this [ __ ] y'all teaching me first of all

none of it makes me think I'm number one

it would make me if I believe that y'all

are teaching me especially back then

that I'm number two that I could never

be a boss that there could never be a

black president

they never teach us how to pass laws and

and Lobby or be politicians and that's

the only way to make change

so it has to be strategic so when the

cycle continues over and over again

without change it's either insanity or

it's intentional

somebody's losing which is us but

somebody's winning which is them

and they're controlling the game

so now we have to make our own game

which behooves US

but the patterns that are implemented

like you said the DNA of who you are

starts when you're a child

what happens as soon as you're four or

five years old until you get taught what

to read how to read what to do and

you're also told that the only way you

could break a social class is to be an

athlete or be an entertainment and both

are provided for you in school so you

just cash out and don't go to school get

an education you go and invest all your

dreams in being an athlete which is like

lotto and when it doesn't happen they

build a jail based on those that don't

graduate

that's how they build jail cells which

is a independent sector

with me you know meaning that you know

it's out you know it's not the

government doesn't own it and the

intention is to keep those beds and

those jails filled because you have a

government contract it's nothing but a

hotel that you want to keep so when you

get to that jail based on the fact that

you didn't get your education they make

sure that you come back no

Rehabilitation at all and serve you bad

food no therapy none of that [ __ ] and

it's obvious if you study people which

people do that you should do that

different so that there would be a

different result

but because there hasn't been any change

made by anyone

the change has to come from us

and that's the reason why Rockefeller

was successful because I wasn't with

none of that

not the education not the programming

that we should be signed none of that

[ __ ] not them telling me Jay was too old

all of that

you understand what I'm saying so

basically everything I've been told has

not behooved me

but everything I do has

so when I don't listen my family eats

when I do we don't

one of the things they don't teach us

when we're we're young is about is about

money especially if you don't come from

it and you haven't got a and that's a

business holding money is a business

within itself they don't teach you how

to pay taxes yeah they don't teach you

about

um capital gains yeah they don't teach

you about trust funds

none of that [ __ ]

they don't teach you how to have money

because they don't expect you to get

none

why isn't there a class on how to have

money

how to invest it how to pay your taxes

yeah I mean I destroyed by 18 years old

we have this thing called a credit score

out here I think you have the same sort

of thing in the US I destroyed mine very

early and then I got these two ccjs

which is a county court judgment which

sits on your credit score for six years

when I was 18 because I was shoplifting

pizzas I was my parents weren't speaking

to me I was trying to start these

businesses how do you shoplift the pizza

you just walk in you get back just as

smart as you can so they don't you're

still black so they're still going to

look at you walking in the shop but

you're just as smart as you can go

around the back put it in the bag walk

out that's what I was doing I just

didn't have any money

but um but I I didn't I destroyed my

financial his my financial credit before

I knew what it was but it didn't bother

you because you still did what you had

to do I was convinced I was going to

make a million Millions anyway so in the

street there is no credit there's no

contracts

your word is your contract your honor is

and if you come from that like that's

the way I was introduced to life

was the honor not the contract

not the paper but the heart and the soul

you know and that's another reason why I

was like yo I can't be a businessman

because it means my honor game is out

the window

how did you learn those lessons of

business you start Rockefeller but you

haven't gone to business school selling

drugs huh

you got to Market you got to be

consistent you know you got to call it

top no one else can use that color you

protect it you brand your work got to be

good marketing man well that's it wasn't

see that's the thing about hustling this

is another thing it's like because it's

illegal you can't do no ads you just got

to put out you got to give samples out

and once the work once they addicted

then you raise the prices

for the marketing of Rockefeller that

was something it was just the brand we

were just active bro you know like

innately I don't know I look back at

tapes that I have of like you know when

I was like 19 like and I had merch but I

didn't call it merch back the things I

was doing I didn't get taught I didn't

have a title for them but it was just

logical to do

you know if you deal with logic as

opposed to waiting for somebody to tell

you I mean that's the difference between

being a soldier and a general

soldiers get they wait literally to be

told what to do

generals give orders

there as well the naivety seems to be

playing into your favor because if you'd

gone to business school and learned

about how to build a

a record like while I was in business

school I'd have been missing building

bro I paid for my daughter's college

right

but I told her you don't have to go to

college she wanted to be a model at the

time

those four years it would have been the

prime years far

you understand what I'm saying now she

graduated

and it's like

I I would have preferred because her

Education costs a quarter of a million

dollars I would have way preferred to

just give her a quarter million dollars

as a salary or at least invest a quarter

million dollars in the business fund

you know I tell my son lucky he's in

college right now and I'm telling him

I'm like I just did this with your

sister if I'm paying for college you're

going to listen to your professor but

you're gonna have to listen to me too

I have to be able to now this is my

first lesson tell me what your dreams

are

what's your dream and it's the hardest

question for him to answer

they don't teach dreaming in school

which is why we make books that aren't

going to be mad about it I'm part of

something called the OSG

and there's also and it's a 200

principles and most of these principles

are from places where

um most people are economically

challenged

and what we do is we discuss curriculum

the things of board of education's not

doing we'll do it they do that on

Thursdays and on Tuesdays I teach the

principles and entrepreneurial class

because none of the principals knew how

to dream I'm like how y'all teaching

your teachers to teach the kids how to

dream if y'all don't so in order to

teach these kids how to be Fearless

y'all got to be fearless and they have

and they've been there so I'm not just

the person that talks about problems I'm

actively trying to fix them I read that

point about dreaming I've heard you talk

about visualization and dreaming and the

importance that plays and I've also saw

you on a on an interview before you

asked I think it was the host the guy

that said he wanted to be an actor you

are yeah yeah you remember I thought

that was brilliant I watched it last

night and he's you know what's the right

type of dream to set the one that you

love what inspires you but don't dream

cheap because they don't cost a dollar

you gotta dream big why would you dream

small

pause you know what I mean

like why wouldn't you have the perfect

best case scenario and it has to be a

selfish dream because you can't help

nobody unless you can help yourself

period unless you're 100

you can't help someone else be 100 have

you always had a really crazy dream in

your head yeah I've been living it

Rockefeller was a crazy dream in my head

but so was dd172

you know what I'm saying these other Art

Gallery everything I'm doing right now

being a director you know what I do is

like as a creative person

I like look at my life like a movie and

I like to play different characters so I

got to play the gangster character early

got that out the way

I got to be a a music mobile years ago

a fashion designer fashion mobile

you know I started oil I sold oil for

fun you know just to do it

you know web three metaverse the

galleries you know with network you know

that's where I got my land and network

because of the utilities that it could

do it could do a lot of [ __ ] just

playing these different roles where does

Focus come into this because this is

none I'm insane I don't have any Focus

that's the problem

if there is a problem that is it

I drive my staff and my crew crazy

every day there's a new idea I'm

inspired and I want to make it happen

tangible or it bothers me

and I have the wherewithal to make it

happen I'm a starving artist but

starving is relative for me

you know

imma always have a staff that can make

my dreams come true so while I'm in

London trust me the Third Edition of the

magazine is being right as we speak and

right now I can feel it actually being

drawn and written you know

what I came to learn probably the hard

way about this point of focus is like I

have all these dreams and things I want

to do but they all come at the cost of

the things I'm currently doing because

it's 24 hours a day even my my team's

time is finite so if you're well aware

that um focus is an issue for you and

that you know you can't do everything

how do you how have you not sort of

stops range yourself in a little bit

with all these ideas and projects you

have going on because as I said I read

the list and I was like Jesus sometimes

I have to like completely detach

so

the last three months I just left la

I've been trying to stay away from

creative things I've been hiding my

cameras from me

you understand what I mean I'm staying

away from people that inspire me I'm

telling you you know I mean I'm in the

house looking at a lake me and my girl

and my baby for the last couple of years

maybe I'd say nine to ten

I've just been a creative and I've been

creating

and I haven't been outside I haven't

been trying to promote or do any of

those things but I have so many tangible

physical assets Goods that need to be

sold right now that it's time to be

great so I've proven to myself that I

can be an artist now I need to prove to

myself I can make money off being an

artist why does that matter so I could

pay the bills so I can make more art

to be able to have every single thing

physically that everyone that sold out

has is important to me so people could

know they could do it on their own

so if you see that Dane did it and I'm

like a regular guy

to me besides the superhero [ __ ] but if

I could do it most people believe that

they can as well so it's important to

lead by example

you know a lot of people give these like

classes and they're standing third I'll

be like yo just look at what I'm doing

I'm not talking about like as I'm

talking I'm like I don't make a living

from talking

I make a living from actually talking

about the things I'm doing but the

living comes from the things I'm doing

you understand what I'm saying like I

got [ __ ] I'm doing like I'm not just I

got a movie to show you right now three

I got a magazine to show you right now I

got a comic book to show you right now I

got a children's book to show you right

now you know what I mean I got a whole

fat I got so many different fashion

lines you know you know I have an album

out right now camera on me camera on the

a track it's called you wasn't there was

number one on the rap charts last week

I forgot I put that [ __ ] up

when is enough enough work fine it's

never enough fun

if I'm not again it's not like I got a

bunch of bread you know what I'm saying

if I had crazy bread then they'd be like

oh you I'm not doing it for the money I

just do it every single day there's just

new [ __ ] to do you said before we

started recording you you're busy in

your mind almost to the the point of

insanity and when I spoke to rock who's

your fiance fiance she said you're

crazy crazy motivated the most driven

motivated person she's ever encountered

in her life he just never turns off he

doesn't sleep

I mean how sustainable is that how

sustainable has it been you tell me you

tell me I'm 51 52. I'm chilling almost

to the point of insanity though he

doesn't turn off he doesn't sleep I'm

just having so much fun

it's not like I'm like I don't leave her

though it's not like I don't leave I I

don't leave the house I'm up working so

it's like oh [ __ ] it's music to make you

know or oh [ __ ] there's a movie to make

you know this is so much to do and I'm

having mad fun so my dream like when I'm

like literally like physically when I go

to sleep and dream at night my life is

better than anything I could be dreaming

about and I get I'd be like like

literally I wake up like I'm glad I am

to stay in that like um is this am I

still in my house like you know I mean

like I I love if God listen for me not

to take advantage of all the opportunity

that God has given me based on where I'm

from

it would be disrespectful to the

opportunities that are presented for me

to sleep right now

it'll be disrespectful it's too much

like I I am very aware that I live a

privileged life compared to most people

because I can actually do things based

on Art all day

so it just would be disrespectful to art

you know if you if I was coming up right

so say I hadn't done anything in my life

and I was young kid 18 years old and I'm

saying dang I've got all these ideas

you know I've got this book comic books

the TV the movie did a

what advice would you give me in terms

of I'd say Focus interesting but the

thing about it is the difference is when

I say I have all these ideas I'm also

showing you tangible things can you

execute people have ideas all day not

many people can execute I can see that's

where there's a gift in the curse

because I can finish because I actually

can do it

because I will do it you understand what

I'm saying yes isn't it yeah

but I love it the reason I'm really

obsessing about this topic is I've I've

been talking to my team some of them

seems like it must be a similar

relatable problem and that's exactly why

I'm really picking at it because you

know I don't worry about it we're told

that we can't move in 10 different

dimensions at one time but we really

can't but what about 20

you could do 50. but then it comes at

the cost of one of those and that's what

I've been contending because life

doesn't come with a cost

so I'll give you an example this podcast

here we could start multiple podcasts

with loads of different creators should

do it but even five percent of my time

thinking about that problem was taken

from like my company let me show you let

me equate that too

so

there are people that can cook very well

for their family

but a real Chef has to cook a thousand

plates

every [ __ ] night

he does not do that on his own he has

other chefs that he teaches

so that's part of being a business

person like look at Walt Disney

like look at Disney they do a bunch of

[ __ ]

to insanity but it gets done

so that's where the business comes see

I'm lucky enough that I can understand

my left and right side of the brain but

I kind of understand if you do two

things both of them working at the same

time

doesn't work out because in when you're

dealing with money you can't be

emotional

but when you're dealing with art it's

pure emotion

so when I'm shooting movies and people

try to make me do business I'd be mad

like get the [ __ ] don't you

it's not going to come from a

businessman's plate it's going to come

from an emotional place

so you know

identifying when to turn off turn on

It's Tricky have you ever over extended

yourself in terms of taking on too much

and don't [ __ ] I need to always

hmm

like you gotta remember like I don't

have no support

it's all me

financially so all these things that got

made got made from one pocket

you know what I'm saying an independent

pocket

so it ain't there's never no money to

look at like I'm always

racing a storm

when things happen to me in life it's

like what's the message here right so we

get we had this crib in Florida

first two weeks lightning hit the crib

blew out the [ __ ] air conditioners

and you can't be in Florida without air

conditioners in the summer

and then this hurricane comes through

so the hurricane is on his way

I gotta go to the black caucus in

Washington I have a commission meeting

and do a panel for the congressman Andre

Carson an account in the commission

and I'm like yo I'm not going to be able

to fly out of any Florida so we go to

Hilton Head we got a crib in Hilton Head

and Rocky's parents are from Hilton Head

so we go to Hilton Head

six hours away

the storm comes to Hilton Head I got to

go to Washington so while the storm is

coming to is getting ready to go in the

direction I gotta time it because we

can't fly so luckily I'm you know

because I'm able to move around I got a

sprinter gotta driver I'm like yo I'ma

drive there it's only eight hours away

but the hurricanes come through it might

catch you how many hours I got three all

right let's go we yeah the wind is

catching us we got to get you know what

I mean but that's what my life is like I

felt no fear

which was crazy

you know what I'm saying it was like fun

and what was crazy about it wasn't a

paid gig

now if it was a paid gig I wouldn't have

went but because I made a commitment

because the commission is important to

me and the congressman through a

commission dinner in the middle of Black

Caucus and you know he also

had a panel for me to speak on and

before covet I was supposed to speak on

the panel and I missed my flight because

of traffic so I was like I can't do that

to him again

you know what I mean

so I was like damn you'll go out in a

hurricane for something you believe in

and for honor and for money I'd have

been like [ __ ] the money you know what

I'm saying I know I would

but my point is my life is like that

it's it's like it's always close

you know I mean and I don't mind it

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the things that your fiance said to said

to my team when we spoke to her was was

that you value that and loyalty

exceptionally High

it's everything

I could just tell you this where I'm

from survival is honor so if you don't

play the game right you end up dead or

in jail period and you have to play the

game right

unspoken laws

just honor

and I just always looked at people that

were honorable and how cool it looks to

be honorable how fly it is because

Honor's not convenient

you know it's when it's something that's

challenging and it's something that you

don't want to do but you do it anyway

because of Honor give me an example of

what you mean when you say honor what is

that in the streets what is it in

business too now being a man of your

work

so if you agree to something

that's it

period is he in the street if you give

your word for what a real streak dude

that's it you got to give it you know

what I mean like you can't like talk to

certain people and say you're gonna do

something that you're not they're coming

looking for you you said you gonna do it

you got to do it when I agree to do

something even I don't even care about

the money it's the your word you lie to

me your ass is out you're a race to me

because

that could get you killed that could get

you put in jail

those are characteristics of people that

unhonorable means you're going to tell

on somebody

to get yourself out of trouble

that doesn't usually deserve it

I was watching an interview earlier on

with with Kanye and he speaks incredibly

highly of you in all of and every time

he's asked I was actually more compelled

by you know you're heavily credited for

sort of discovering Kanye and seeing

something in him again like Jay-Z at a

time when no one else did Kanye has

become this this brand now and again

he's stretches across multiple

Industries in an unbelievable way in

culture and art in fact all these things

he's up on my wall upstairs I've

actually got a big a painting from his

his show where he had that levitating

stage but what did you see in him back

then

that you know to be responsible for the

the the monolith that he is today

what was it about him what made him

different

he would listen

Kanye listened

like

if I said yo have cameras with you he

had cameras with you

when he broke his jaw and and I I had to

send him that the equipment

and with that Through the Wire with his

jaw broke

if I I remember bringing him to London

I'd be like yo

rap He just jump on the table and rap

you know and and

the thing about

when you say I discovered Kanye yeah

but I gave everyone in Rockefeller the

same exact opportunity I fought like I

fought for Kanye and protected Kanye I

did that for every single artist he just

chose to do and take the opportunity and

the protection

and run with it until he didn't need any

more

and no one else did

what is his Brilliance and your

assessment

then he's so confident in his dreams

that they happen period

but but what job might not realize

about Kanye

and I'll probably leave it that way I'm

is that my personal experience with him

just watching him move around

is that he's completely committed to

what he's giving you

every single second until he passes out

he's working

he doesn't have a personal life that

I've seen every second is devoted to art

and it's it's in his hand it's Insanity

as well you know he said it he's like yo

I'm Dame Dash with a whole lot of money

and he is but you know the thing is he

has a whole lot of money because he

talks and works with corporate but look

how it triggers

you know what I mean so what it means is

no matter how much money you make

if there's still somebody impeding on

your art

you're going to be unhappy

and that's why my advice is always to do

it on your own

just for the happiness value of it [ __ ]

the money

if we all said forget the money we'd

make so much more

probably not in the short time though

right but in the meantime you're having

mad fun

when you're working on your dream money

doesn't matter

if you really truly love what you're

doing if you're doing it for the love of

the art you ain't really worried about

the money in that moment as long as you

can continue to do it

there's a trade-off though isn't that

I've experienced that my life and it's

kind of what you were speaking to there

it's the business side of you that keeps

talking because you still love money me

yeah I do love money to be fair that's

why you're conflicted yeah and I've

taken I think I've taken investment in

all the companies not these days but

yeah the last 10 years it doesn't sound

like it gets you uninspired

but that's why when you we spoke offline

and you said I quit my job I was like

didn't you just say you sold a company

how could you still call it a job yeah

so I saw that this is a job it's not fun

no more

I don't got a job

when you look at these people say in can

you you know case I don't want to talk

about him be on this point but um

obviously it's made him a billionaire

the trade-off you're speaking to is that

you know he's had these frictions with

the corporations and stuff like that but

puts him in a position now where he can

as he is doing go It Alone be an

independent

all I'm saying is regardless of what it

ends up in war

so if you get either way either you have

to walk away from your company or go to

war

one of the two

correct yeah most of the time

yeah if you look at I mean look at Steve

Jobs with no look at you he got fired

from happening let's talk about you yeah

yeah so it sounds to me like you've got

went public and got uninspired yeah lost

control

is that you gave away your control for

money yeah why would you give your free

think about this right

so when

slavery became in America illegal

everyone that had slaves were still

lawmakers that used to have slaves they

still were passing laws so can you

imagine this conversation yo what are we

going to do now we don't have slaves

well we have to make it where they are

slaves but they don't know it how do we

do that well let's suppress them and

let's make them fight each other

so every time one kills we get one kill

and then one goes to jail we get two for

one plus they all have kids they have

kids so now they don't have parents

they're disenfranchised so now the kids

do the same exact thing because they

have nobody to lead them

you understand what I'm saying

it's just the plan

to make us think we're winning when

we're losing but what we really do is we

give away our freedom so what happens is

you commit a crime you hurt your brother

and now legally you're in Chains you're

put in a cage and you're working for

slave wages

and now

instead of slave master

or Master is Warden or Co or at least

that's what we call them in in the

states I don't know what they call like

a it's called correction officer CEO or

Warden whoever runs the jail

it's a plan so they always trick us into

giving away our freedom by dangling a

bag the bag though because sometimes

it's man-made

money is man-made

the value of money is made based on what

a man says but real currency is love and

that's God made

so why would you listen just logically

to man telling you that his currency is

more powerful than God's currency which

is love

I'm going with God's currency every time

just because it's logical

and that's another thing logically

I just believe God has to be a woman

why

can you create life

but God creates life

can a woman create life

so what would be the closest thing to

God

the creator of life would be a woman

but of course a man because they have

muscle would trick the rest of the world

into believing that man would be if if

War

and people fighting

is the least smartest thing in the world

to do and that's men do that all day

it's the most destructive thing to do is

bad for business but it's good for

someone else's whoever's selling bullets

you understand what I'm saying and men

do this all day

so if you know men been running this

[ __ ] for a while and [ __ ] is [ __ ] up

I would love to see what life looks like

what women want to thinks I would love

that

the host end of your career the

Rockefeller chapter

do you have any regrets surrounding that

when you look back and think I wish I'd

done that differently I wish someone had

told me this thing that's Rockefeller

that [ __ ] is art why would I want to

mess with that

look how it's impacted the world

you know what I mean like yeah it'll be

things certain things that just because

I know better I do different

but who cares man I was like a kid what

are those things if you're giving me I

wouldn't I wouldn't have been so

generous with Jake to Jake

it was more friendship for me and money

for him

and I always felt that but I ignored it

a little you regret ignoring that I

don't regret it I just I wouldn't have

the things that I wouldn't have let

certain things happen because I didn't

think they could happen you know what

I'm saying like oh he would never do

that but he did things that I thought he

would never do so now I would be like oh

he would do that and I would make sure

it didn't happen

so Rockefeller would probably still

exist right now

I made those mistakes too

it is what it is actually

the life that I got after Rockefeller

was so [ __ ] it's been so fulfilling

and I've had so much fun

you know I just opened up art galleries

all over the world and made music with

cool people and I just I just been doing

cool [ __ ] for the last 10 years I was I

wasn't compelled by the uh what you said

earlier and you said Rockefeller would

still exist

yeah okay you tell me what was the in

the Rockefeller and why it happened

uh from what I understand and again this

is just what I've read there was a

dinner that took place between you and

Jay where Jay wanted to sell Rockefeller

to Def Jam no that's not where okay

there you go we had we we met at dinner

because I had heard from LA Reid that

Jay was like I'll take the job of

president but Damon and Biggs can't be

down with Rockefeller and LA Reid was

like yo and I thought John McNeely had

said this [ __ ] I like Jay could have

never said that and we went and he did

me like public place the whole [ __ ] and

told me this [ __ ] and I I was just like

[ __ ] serious Jay told you though he

said yeah I want to be looked at as a

businessman and as long as you're around

I can't be looked at as a businessman

but I was like what's that gotta do a

Rockefeller so he was like yo y'all

could have Rockefeller but just give me

my Reasonable Doubt Masters back I said

let me think about

and I went and did a screening of The

Woodsman and I was like yo come with me

to the screening so he could walk the

carpet he's like nah you're all dressed

up and I was like

Snicker never helps

but my point is regardless of what

Rockefeller still existed

it's just I didn't run it

so why isn't there still a Rockefeller

Rockefeller was sold right Jay was they

gave Jake it was sold but they gave Jay

to run Rockefeller

so Kanye was still there everybody was

still there why is there no more

Rockefeller

you tell me well usually when a rapper

runs other rappers it doesn't happen it

doesn't work no more it just means there

was no Rockefeller unless I run it

that's it

so I would have continued to run it

I wouldn't have put that you know I'd

dealt with it different and how when

you're going forward and like well I

didn't want to run Rockefeller no more I

was done with that I was at that time I

was already at rockware my office was

not I wasn't [ __ ] with music no more

and real quick was making a lot of money

right yeah but it was just more I was

just inspired I was just sick of being

in that building and dealing with dumb

[ __ ] I was done with the music business

I wanted to do fashion

I just I was done with it so I looked at

it as an out like out of obligation I

would have still ran Rockefeller because

I gave my commitment but because they

was acting silly I was like yo take it I

want to go anyway

you know what I'm saying

but you know how did you feel towards

Jay-Z now

I don't feel nothing

no

no bad feelings no good feelings

no feelings

I deal with feelings and they would

probably not be so complimentary

he's obviously achieved you know

tremendous success in all he's done in

multi-industries and all that kind of

thing

what is what is it about him that you

think has put him in that position his

characteristics I don't want to talk

about Jake you don't want to talk about

him not really

like you know I know what Rockefeller

was and how we did business so it's hard

to I I don't even try to figure that

[ __ ] out

okay you have a really unique

perspective in the sense that you you

know yourself Kanye J you got to see the

the characteristics that made them go on

their Journeys and that's really what I

was trying to get at is like what are

those the difference between Jay and

Kanye and I say it Jay is about the

money period and Kanye

is about the art and the money but it's

the art you know what I mean like like

like Kanye is a real artist

that Kanye is in different dimensions

like you know he's he really focuses on

that fashion

I never saw Jay do that ever not nothing

there

and he really focuses on his creative

like he produces his own beats

and then he's about like sonically he's

really into how things are like like I

don't even understand what the [ __ ] he's

doing when he makes Beats you know what

I mean like I know what it beats sound

but then he does some other [ __ ] that

makes it like where other people

respected you know he has it's an art to

what he does

and um Kanye obviously has opinions

you know he's not trying to fit in

so Kanye's whole thing is I don't give a

[ __ ]