Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day,

>> gentlemen. We're live.

>> What's happening? [music] Good to see

you.

>> What is up, my man?

>> I enjoy your show. Your show's

excellent. You guys have a really good

MMA show. It's really solid.

>> Thank you. [laughter]

>> Thank you. I I kind of blew that. So,

how'd you talk about that?

>> Yeah. [laughter] I got to talk to him

about

>> You guys are not doing it anymore. I I

stepped back away when I I started uh

refereeing again.

>> God damn it. You got to go back to doing

it. You guys are great. You guys are a

great combination.

>> I think I might.

>> What we did is we what we what we did is

we started doing uh McCarthy Mondays

>> because when he went back to refereeing,

he's not allowed to talk about

promotions, not allowed to talk about

fighters and what's wrong and and the

things that possibly, you know, can make

some changes in. So, we just started

McCarthy Monday where we just talk about

like the Joe Schilling situation. That's

something we could talk about, right?

So I just I created a show for him to

just only do on Mondays.

>> He created

>> Nice.

>> Well, his obviously he created

[laughter] it.

>> It's his input. I was just trying to

find ways to keep him involved.

>> I love that you're refereeing again. We

need great referees, but I wish you were

out there doing both. It doesn't make

sense to me that you can't do both. Like

it's not like you're not going to be a

great referee while also still being

able to comment objectively about

promotions. It's important. Yeah,

>> it is important.

>> It's important. Look, transparency. What

where's the problem with that?

>> Exactly.

>> But you get these people that oh no

because you might say something that is

going to create a problem and it's like

it's not a problem if it's the truth.

>> It's ridiculous. I mean if that was the

case why how come I can do it as a

commentator?

>> How come all these guys can do it?

>> Because you're the best. [laughter]

>> Yeah. But I mean how everybody should be

able to have a voice especially

referees. You should like if something

happens and you're a referee and you

could say here's my perspective. this

what this is why I did what I did and

you have it on a podcast on a regular

basis that's a benefit to everybody.

>> So that is what I'm trying to create.

>> I believe you're right.

>> But what you but what you run into is

you run into some issues where the

referee says too much and then people

come back at them and then the

commissions have to answer for it and

the and the fight and then the fighters

dig on them and then

>> good people are talking. That's how [ __ ]

gets solved. That's how you you don't

have like two one hand down does not in

it's not a downed opponent anymore. Why?

because we [ __ ] complained forever.

12 to six elbows, they're legit again.

Except in New Jersey. [laughter]

>> Did you see the problem?

>> Yeah. See the goddamn problem?

>> When we were in New Jersey, I was like,

"You got to be kidding me. How the [ __ ]

do you guys not have 12 to six?

>> You can't make it any more complicated

for the referees and the fighters,

>> bro. It's so dumb. It's the dumbest

[ __ ] thing. It's so unfair to the

fighters themselves because you when we

look I was part I wrote those things out

and they were passed by the ABC but we

gave six months six months because you

got to give the fighters time to train

to make sure that they get it right.

Okay. And so it's put it in it works

great and now you expect them to go back

to one location

>> in the middle of a fight.

>> Exactly. one location and now they're

going to automatically go back to the

old rules. It's like you do you realize

what you're doing to them?

>> It doesn't make any sense either. The

old the old rules are [ __ ] stupid. We

all We all agreed. Everybody No one was

like no no no 12 to six elbows are too

dangerous.

>> Oh no. Oh yes, there was.

>> Was there people?

>> Oh yeah. Your broadcast partner.

>> Shut the [ __ ] up. Which one?

>> Dan Cormier.

>> No.

>> I swear to God.

>> He says some crazy [ __ ]

>> He does say

>> DC. I love you.

Why did he say that 12 to six elbows in

the game?

>> He goes, I think that rule should

absolutely that's dangerous. I swear

>> if we're going to ban anything, and I

don't think we should ban anything, but

if we're going to ban anything,

sidekicks to the knees.

>> See, and that that right there, you

think we should. Okay. No, you

shouldn't.

>> I don't think we should, but I'm saying

if we should, there's an argument that

you're going to blow out a guy's knee.

He'll never be his career be the same.

>> Then we should then we should absolutely

ban kicks to the head and knees to the

head. And we should we should ban Yes.

Because what's worse, the blown out knee

or the blown out brain? I'm agreeing

with you. I don't think we should have

banned anything. But there's one thing

that does bother me like the Cleo

Roundry Modest Picos fight when knee

went sideways like a he's [ __ ] for a

year at least if not forever.

>> Okay, but what's the difference between

that and we'll say you know Eden Barbosa

Terry

>> Terry Adam Terry Adam and that kick to

the head. You don't think that that was

more than a year? You know it was

>> really was never the same again.

>> Exactly. That's my point.

>> Oh yeah. I mean that was like getting

hit by a meteor.

>> Oh,

>> that was crazy.

>> I mean it was absolutely perfectly

executed beautiful technique that it

absolutely altered and we talked by the

way first wheel kick KO in the USA.

>> Absolutely. It was

crazy.

>> Yeah. But you look and you go there are

those fights and we say it all the time

and you know you as the as a referee as

a fighter you know with him.

>> Here it is right here.

>> We go and watch this thing. I mean,

>> I mean, that one was just insane.

>> But you, the fighters themselves, they

get paid to get damaged. I hate to say

that, but it's the truth. That's part of

their pay is they go in and they're

going to accept some damage, but you

don't want them to have unnecessary

damage,

>> right? No, I agree with you. So, you

think we go rising rules

>> because there's something to be said for

that.

>> I do. I look at I've I've advocated for

knees on the ground for a long time.

It's never going to happen. My position

is it's better in a ring because you can

avoid them a little bit if you're

mobile, right? If you're still conscious

and you have defensive capability, you

can move around knees and kicks.

>> When the cage happens and you're butted

up and someone stomps you, that's a

totally different end.

>> First off, the stomp I don't ever agree

with. And the reason why is this. Name

me the fight that you saw that a stomp

was an effective technique when the

fighter was not already seriously hurt.

Doesn't happen.

>> Sakuraba. Sakur Robbie used to do it all

the time after he hurt people. Every

time he tried to do it when they weren't

hurt, they just moved and he was

Mongolian stomping on nothing.

>> Go ahead, take a look at him.

>> Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch it.

>> Yeah, there was there was uh Mininoa and

Phil Baron. He did that a couple times

with him when Minoa couldn't get the

taked down cuz I was there cornering him

for that fight. There was that fight.

Then there was um and then Shogun and

Ninja. Remember when they used to like

do the

>> stomp

stomp Ninja and Shogun the brothers

together? Those guys were phenomenal,

Adam.

>> Oh, and we people that only saw Shogun

in Pride missed it.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> You missed it. Excuse me. In the UFC

fight against Pride, Quinton Rampage

Jackson

>> was I mean, cuz a lot of people didn't,

you know, going into that fight, you

know, that's Rampage. You know, this

this guy's young. He absolutely just

annihilated Rampage in that fight. And

it was like, oh my god, he's way better

than I ever gave him credit for before

that fight. That fight was that was a

coming out party for for Shogun.

>> Yeah, he was a lethal striker. Lethal.

And all those Kurativa guys were so

hyper aggressive.

>> Yeah, his brother was just as nasty

until he, you know, he started got a

little chinny after a couple shots

fighting big guys.

>> Yeah, that was the problem.

>> Didn't he fight Alexander? Didn't Who

did he fight? He fought some

heavyweight, right?

>> Yeah. And he got he fought quite a few

>> crushed. Yeah.

>> But he fought one guy where it was like

what is this? Why is he fighting this

guy?

>> Yeah. I can't remember who it was. Was

it a million?

>> I say Alexander a milliona.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it

was that.

>> I think it was.

>> And it was like one of those fights like

No, no, no, no, no. This is a real

[ __ ] heavyweight. A big one with

nasty striking.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, I mean, he was [ __ ] nasty.

>> He was good.

>> Yeah, he he had some smooth striking.

People don't give the millenos as a

whole. Alexander was a little bit off, a

little bit crazy.

>> Oh, a lot.

>> Okay. [laughter] I'm just

>> How about the death on his back? Like

the [ __ ] death holding a baby

tattooed on his back. Like that's a

choice. [laughter]

>> That's a [ __ ] See if you can find

Alexander Ameilion's back tattoo.

>> You look at that, you're like, what is

going on in your mind that you're like,

"This should be on my back permanently."

But that's the brother. [laughter] And

then you have Fedor as the guy who is

even better.

>> And look at Fedor is, you [laughter]

know, he was such a good guy.

>> Look at that [ __ ] tattoo.

>> There you go.

>> What does it say in Russian, Jamie?

>> Jesus.

>> No, that's Oh man,

>> that is the craziest thing. The baby's

got a [ __ ] sword and a crown.

>> Oh yeah.

>> And then death is like, "Yes, let's kill

everyone right there."

>> Yeah.

>> It's not even a good drawing. [laughter]

>> It's like that's some Russian prison

[ __ ] for sure. in Russian prison.

>> He's 100% committed.

>> That's a ballpoint pen and a [ __ ]

sewing needle. Yep.

>> Yeah, they did that in Russian prison.

100%.

>> You're in an ash, [laughter]

>> bro. That's a lot of time. God is with

us. Are you sure?

>> Are you sure? Based on that. [laughter]

>> And then you got his brother. His

brother has no tattoos.

>> No tattoos. Completely different.

>> Small little wooden cross on his chest.

You know, as far as

>> I know, right? He's so stoic.

>> Oh, he's awesome. Alexander Millioninko

James Thompson fight. James Thompson was

an animal built like a [ __ ] Greek

god. Gig comes out like terrifying

[ __ ] huge massive. The best is the

look on Alexander's face throughout all

of the

>> I'm going to fall asleep.

>> Just completely stoic. Look at Thompson

so worked up. Starts pounding his chest.

He's

>> He's shaking. Look at him. He's ready to

[ __ ] his [laughter]

He's He just stepped out of a bar.

>> He's [ __ ] No flexing at all. Doesn't

even lift his hand up all the way. It's

like, "Hey, everybody."

>> Got the belly hanging out a little bit.

It's awesome.

>> Look how chill he looks.

>> Yeah. I'm going to get

>> Look how chill Fedor looks, too. Like,

no worries at all.

>> Jeez.

>> Look at James. He's so [ __ ] hyped up.

Alexander's like, it's like he's

ordering sandwich. [laughter]

>> It's like, I'll have uh Swiss cheese and

mustard.

>> He's ordering a sandwich.

>> It's vicious.

>> The way he rocks him, too, right off the

bat.

>> James comes charging.

>> James comes charging at him, puts him

down, but he wasn't hurt.

>> It's like he fell down.

>> That hurt. That hurt James. That hurt

James. on once he starts connecting,

they had that Soviet style fluid boxing

that there just whip punches.

>> Look, I I'll tell you what, I worked out

with Fedor and it was it was it was a a

great moment in my life. If you're going

to sit there and say, "Well, if you're

going to get your ass kicked, it's a

great moment." But the one thing I

always thought, you know, before, you

know, watching him, refing him, I go,

"He's got to have some kind of, you

know, like just [ __ ] strength, you

know."

>> Right. Right. No, he's fast. And I mean

super fast when he explodes and and his

hands are down kind of so it's hard to

see when the shots are coming and

everything he does he just explodes into

>> and you go, "Oh, I get it."

>> Because you got to work really hard to

try to stay up with his speed when he

all sudden is exploding and then it's

like,

>> "Oh, he doesn't get tired and you're

starting to get tired because you're

having to match that RPM that he's at,

>> right? And he's not a big heavyweight

either. Which I think is a real benefit.

>> I think it is until you're fighting a

guy like Enano. And I'm like,

>> there's a problem there.

>> Oh yeah.

>> That guy can be patient. 265 naturally

nuclear power

>> and Enano hits you anywhere in the head.

>> It's a problem.

>> You're in trouble.

>> Yeah, it's a real problem.

>> It's he hit Philip, you know, Lind hit

him on the basic almost we didn't even

say the temple. Hit him almost to the

top of the head.

>> And look, he was out. I mean, he's not

be able to to control his body.

>> That guy's got the ability to hurt, you

know, when he fought Kane.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, take a look. Yeah. It wasn't a

great ch,

>> but it hurt him.

>> Yeah. He's got crazy power.

>> Yeah. Just nuts.

>> But Fedor was a different thing because

Fedor had that like that Russian style

of movement that you see like Dimmitri

Bivval has where they're like real

relaxed and then they explode.

>> Exactly.

>> And the footwork

>> that little bit of a bounce. He's got

that little bit of a bounce in out. just

sits there and wait and he waits for

your motion to come where he wants it to

be and then he changes that distance and

just cracks.

>> Fedor did a really good job of coming

around your guard as well. So it wasn't

just a big straight right all the time.

You know, Rich Franklin used to do that

as well. He'd come around your guard.

You put your hands up and Fedor had a he

did a great job with that coming around

and landing the big overhand right and

then he'd come uppercut then he'd take

you down or hip toss you body lock you

>> and if you took him to the ground off

his back he's got one of the quickest

[ __ ] arm bars in the game which is

nuts. transition

>> man Choy he ar tall dude [laughter] he

looks like a little kid he's all

stretched out he looks he's like in this

you go

>> he's off the ground completely

>> he was great everywhere and and you you

know you you think about him as being

this overall picture of like one of the

greatest if not the greatest MMA fighter

of all time but people forget like his

standup was so good that the Crocop

fight was mostly standup he wrote he

wrote the blueprint on how to beat

Crocop which you got to be him to do it

though. Yeah.

>> The thing I mean he first of all his his

stand up has always been real dangerous

on but also it's like the way he was

able to check that left kick. He was

doing a lot of like lifting the knee up

and catching it like up high.

>> But how many people had you seen that

would back crow onto his back foot and

march forward cro Exactly. And that

prime that was the difference is when

you looked at it

>> he he told himself nope I'm going to I'm

going to make you go backwards. And it

took a lot of what Crow Cop did and it

it just nullified a lot of it.

>> Was a lot of it was the threat of the

grappling, right? That was a big part of

it.

>> Well, not with that cuz then Fedor

didn't have to worry about if he if he

did slip and fall, if he threw if he

threw a big shot and he got cut from

underneath, if he did fall to the

ground, Crocop was going to fall to the

ground, he could just hop back up. So,

there was that. And then on top of it,

too, when you fought him in a foam

booth, you not worried as much for that

head kick to get there if I'm within,

you know, inches of you. That left kick

was

>> there's this picture of Heath herring

where the shin is like halfway into

Heath's ribs.

>> Oh yeah.

>> It's crazy. You know that picture? It's

crazy. You see cop's shin is just so

deep you just feel your own liver.

>> I've seen the Vanderlay ones cuz

Vanderlay has his ribs were just tore up

from from there.

>> Look at that picture. Look at that

picture, bro. That's crazy.

>> Do you know how much that hurts?

[laughter]

>> I mean that is

>> Actually, I do.

Well, that's that's the part where you

you look with people and you go, you

know, do you realize what you Yeah, that

would hurt a little. No, no, no. Your

entire body is going,

>> I quit. Seees up.

>> He had such explosive power. And he to

me, he was like the first guy to figure

out how to transition from kickboxing to

MMA because he did it with

explosiveness. But at the highest point,

you got to give that Moraurice. I got to

give him That's true. Maurice Maurice

was the first,

>> but Crowop was in that same era and he

was doing it in pride.

>> And all these other guys like Ernesto

Hoo, it didn't really work out for them

when they like he only fought Bob Sap in

a kickboxing fight, but even when they

were fighting like bigger like Crocot

[ __ ] up Bob Sap like same era, same

not Yeah, same time period. It was that

explosiveness. Whereas like guys like

Peter Ers that wouldn't translate as

well in MMA, elite strikers, but they

wanted to get into a rhythm. They wanted

to like get into situations and

exchanges. And with Crowop, it was just

these one shots were coming at you like

nuclear missiles. And it was a different

threat. It was a completely different

threat than a lot of other guys because

he was so explosive.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's Crocop was what a great

guy. Oh, he's awesome guy

>> as far as, you know, and but his left

kick has to be the best left kick

there's ever been in the sport of MMA.

>> Yeah, I don't think you could even think

of a second place. Like, who's got a

better left kick than Croka? Maybe Edson

Barbosa's switch kick.

>> Yeah,

>> that switch kick was preposterous.

>> So quick, so accurate, too.

>> In his prime, he would kick and I'd be

like, "Is there something wrong with my

eyes?"

>> It was so fast.

>> It was just like a 120 lb guy. It was so

fast.

>> Yeah. They Dana called me a couple times

to fight him and I was like rank number

three. He was like just I think he hit

number 15. I'm like no [laughter]

>> give me a higher ranked guy.

>> Sorry dude. LIKE NOT THAT IT'S NOT THAT

I It's not that I wouldn't find. Give me

a higher ranked guy. [laughter]

>> Make it make sense.

Help me help you at this time in my

life. Make it make sense. [laughter]

[gasps]

>> You did

>> that when he came in though. You got to

look at Barbosa. You know, he's been

there a long time now when you think

about it.

>> Still going at it.

>> But when he came in,

>> it was like, dude, this is a next level

of standup ability with what this guy

can do.

>> And it was like, man,

>> and oddly mostly kicks.

>> Yeah.

>> Like his boxing wasn't threatening like

his kicks were. It was not equal. It was

mostly kicks,

>> right? No.

>> If he could I developed something along

the José Aldo level of boxing where he

ran the body, came back at top of the

head with those kicks. I mean,

>> Aldo's taked down defense was nuts.

>> Probably the best. I think probably the

best in the sport that we've seen. I

mean, honestly,

>> other than BJ in his prime.

>> Yeah, right. With the one leg hop.

>> BJ in his prime was ridiculous. His

balance was [ __ ] insane. Yeah.

>> But I think he's the only guy that

didn't get taken down by Morab when

Morab and him fought three crazy rounds.

I think Morab went for like 90 [ __ ]

takedowns or something.

>> And I don't think he took I don't think

Morab took him down. Yeah, I think Barab

mostly won that fight up against the

cage, hitting him with punches, working

for takedowns, cage damage.

>> Extremely underestimated Joseé Aldo's

[snorts] take down defense.

>> Well, it's the f you take a look and

Aldo doesn't now all of a sudden it's

kind of like the Anderson Silva thing.

All of a sudden, it's like, you know,

well, let's talk about the very best in

the 145 pound and and look at Alexander

Vulcanowski's right there. He's

phenomenal. You know, I'm not saying

don't forget what Josie Aldo did.

Absolutely.

>> I mean, through the WC into being the

UFC champion, all those fights, man, I

tell you what, that guy was absolutely

nuts as far as how good he was at one

time.

>> Well, I think it was also because he was

an elite soccer player and the ability

to like if you ever watch a live soccer

g professional soccer match,

>> you're like, "Oh, Jesus." Like these

they don't get to slow down. They don't

have a like a there's no halftime.

There's no like big break for

commercials. There's no [ __ ] They

just go

giant [ __ ] legs. They all have insane

leg power cuz they're just sprinting all

day long. And you go, "Oh, well that

would translate perfectly to MMA for

kicking, for moving, for footwork."

Think about all it's not just that,

right? It's it's the stop and go. Stop

and go. Like in a real fight, right? I

get a takedown, I get to rest for a

second, and then he postures back up and

gets back to his feet. I got to go again

and sprints again, get the taked down.

In soccer, same thing. You run hard down

the line. Oh, the ball gets turned back.

Now you kind of jog back a little bit.

Now the ball gets played to you. It's a

stop and go of sprinting, just like a

real fight.

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Yeah, it's interesting. There's a bunch

of different bases that if you come from

them, they have a big advant it puts you

in a big advantage in different sports.

>> Yeah. Soccer and wrestling, those two

things. The grinding of the wrestling

and just the cardio fatigue and

understanding that I can push through

when I get tired because there's nothing

more satisfying, you know, in terms of

when you run down the line, the guy

plays the ball into the corner and you

got to beat that defender there and then

you cross it across and you're it's that

sprinting down there to beat him. But

then also too in wrestling knowing that

you can break another human being like I

need to break you mentally grind on you

and hang on you. Those two sports I

think are huge for for the sport of

>> and getting used to suffering dehydrated

>> right [laughter]

there's a big factor

getting used to suffering.

>> Yeah.

>> But the weight cuts and having to

compete on the same day as weight cuts

is a big difference.

>> And for people that have never done that

before and don't know it's [ __ ] hard.

Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is

the grossest thing in MMA. It is.

>> They should figure out a way to stop it.

>> I totally

talk about one of the most

>> There is no way

>> one of the most dangerous things that

you do with it. Like think about this,

Joe. Every every sport, soccer,

football, baseball, basketball, they all

have team chefs. They all have all these

things as far as we want our athletes to

be as physically ready and have the

right nutrition and all these things.

What's the sports that we go and we

starve our athletes and dehydrate them?

[laughter]

24 hours before 24 hours before the most

demanding, most dangerous sport in the

world.

>> Yep. But Joe, even if we did it the same

day, fighters would still cut weight to

try and make that weight.

>> The question is, I wonder if there's a

way to prevent that. Like the way to

prevent that, I would say, is everybody,

here's your mandate. No one's getting

out of shape anymore because we're going

to have random weigh-ins.

>> So, we're going to just show up at your

[ __ ] gym.

>> Can't do it.

>> But, but could you like let's say you

fight at 170? You cannot weigh more than

180.

>> See, here here's

>> on any given day. I'll show up at your

[ __ ] house at 7:00 in the morning.

Josh, get on the scale. 175. This is not

good.

>> You could do it as a promotion. You

can't do it as an industry within the

sport. And the reason why I'm telling

saying that is first off, you have all

these fighters. We'll say they're all

everywhere, okay? All over the world.

And for a for an athletic commission,

we'll say the state of California, state

of Texas, they have to have that

particular fighter licensed for them to

say, "We want to weigh you."

>> If they're not licensed in that state on

that year, they can't they can sit there

and go,

>> "We could, but you if it got if it got

adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the

organizations would adopt it."

>> But again, that's the UFC has a

promotion. The UFC has talked about

>> and the UFC has the money to actually do

that, but it's going to cost them a lot

of money. And you know, look at I

understand why the promotion doesn't

want to lose money just to be better.

Guys would be in way better condition.

Absolutely. I think we've seen what

you're talking about. They stop cutting

as much weight. You could sit there and

you know the the only way an athletic

commission could kind of do it and but

this is bad on promotions is an athletic

commission could sit there and say you

are allowed to weigh no more than five

pounds more than that weigh-in weight.

>> Okay. But the here's your problems with

it. First off, the promotion can lose

fights. The pro promotion doesn't want

to lose fights.

>> True.

>> Okay. And the second part is what's

saying that the the fighter themselves

is not keeping themselves dehydrated to

make that 5 lb and now they're going in

even more dehydrated into the fight

which could cause them more problems.

>> Well, they couldn't be dehydrated

through their entire camp and that's

where you institute randoms.

>> That's why your randoms would work if

the promotion was doing it.

>> Yeah. But it would have

>> to do it sportwide. It'd be almost

impossible.

>> It it would have to take a long time to

figure out how to do it properly and not

lose fights because there's too many

guys that [ __ ] around. Oh,

>> you know, there's Right. There's too

many guys that like look, how many times

did Jon Jones not really train?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> You know, like the Gustoson fight, the

first one, they said he didn't really

train

>> 10 days.

>> Showed up a little bit here and there,

didn't really train. So, if there's a

guy like that, what are you going to not

let him fight? Like, what are you going

to do? Like, he's 226 and now that's too

much.

>> You also have guys like Michael Morales

right now, 170 pounder. He's walking

around like

210, 212, 205. I mean, there's a few of

those guys where I'm standing next to

him like Gregory Rodriguez. I'm like,

how?

>> Yeah.

>> How How are you ever 185 pounds?

>> How was How How was Alex 185 lbs?

[laughter]

>> I stand next to him and go, "You got to

be [ __ ] me."

>> Nuts. Nuts. Unbelievable.

>> And at 185 lbs, nuclear power. But I

don't think he took a shot as well.

>> He didn't. There's no doubt about it.

Look at

>> Yeah.

>> You can go back and look at his fights.

He got hurt by shots that were not as

hard as the ones he's taken at 205

>> based upon it's that weight cut.

>> It's the point of diminishing returns,

right? It's like there's a place where

you're just doing it too much. And you

know, you kind of love to see freaks.

You love to see a guy like Alex weigh in

at 185. You're like, "Good luck with

that. Good luck with this 226 lb [ __ ]

Amazon warrior that pretended to be 185

for 5 minutes."

>> For [laughter] five minutes. But you

take a look at I'm so surprised how he

can make the weight. When you pass by

him and you see how tall he is, how big

he is, and you see him with the face off

with Sir Gone right now, you're like,

how would this guy ever make 185?

>> He's 250 now.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Which is crazy.

>> I saw him last week and it's like,

>> dude, 250 means that's almost 70 lb

different from his UFC debut. [laughter]

>> The only case makes me believe that

we're going to see a better Alex is

because he doesn't have to cut his kill

himself. But he also put on muscle and

there's an issue with that.

>> But exactly there again diminishing

returns. How much is that muscle going

to do? This is where you try to you try

to tell all fighters and you know it's

>> Joe [snorts] if when you were fighting

in taekwond do you care about the strong

guy

>> or did you care about the fast guy?

>> The difference is MMA with grappling

>> the the the difference is with weight

like if you get a big heavy guy and he

gets on top of you all your speed is

gone.

>> Absolutely. You're right. it's gone

within the first three or four minutes.

>> But the problem with being the bigger,

stronger guy in the lighter weight class

is you're never the faster guy. And so

you've got to be able to maul that that

person to to be effective. And it only

lasts for a certain amount of time if

you had to dehydrate yourself to that

point

>> where speed is always there when someone

has it to a point unless they get tired.

And that speed is hard for you to

handle. But there's guys that were big

for the weight class and had ridiculous

speed like Conor McGregor's is a perfect

example. Yeah. Conor at 145 was fast as

[ __ ]

>> Conor was absolutely dehydrated to the

point of being a concentration camp

victim.

>> Oh yeah. He looked like death.

>> I mean it was unbelievable.

>> However, once he got in there he was

fast as [ __ ]

>> Oh, look. He used to he used to lose so

much at 145.

>> He was

>> he looked like death.

>> He was killing himself. I remember the

weigh-ins like interviewing him at

weigh-ins like this is oh my god

>> but then you see him the next day all

full

>> I know he looked good but he good

>> he he was also what was his age back

then 26 27

>> right right

>> can't do that now

>> no you can't do that now it gets to a

certain point in time where you have to

realize you're cutting too much weight

and it's actually ruining your career

>> but I think the evidence has been pretty

clear when you see guys go up in weight

after killing themselves for so long

they've had success

>> a lot of guys had look at Max

>> when say I was just about to bring him

up I just had Dustin Py on podcast

yesterday and and uh we were just

talking about how he's like look Max the

first time he came up to 55 didn't put

the weight on properly second time put

it on properly he's like

>> significant difference in power mobility

movement

>> the BMF fight with GI come on man that's

that guy should have never went down to

45 again to fight top it's too much loss

>> what point because we had we had that

argument about that ex that exact thing

of he would Josh was saying look he

should never It was a championship

fight. Yeah. He was getting a world

title fight at 145.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And I said, "Look, it's a world

title fight. I understand why he's going

back down. He's going, he's making a

huge mistake. It should never take it.

He should stay at 155.

>> You know, work yourself into a title

fight." And I go,

>> "I understand why he's taken it. It's a

>> that made him the number one contender.

He beat Justin Gi. He could have

>> I understand why he took the fight.

Might maybe he would have favored uh

that fight with Ilia because Ilia is a

smaller guy than Islam." Because if you

think about it, Islam, he [ __ ]

smothers everybody. Yeah, he does. And

his striking is dangerous as [ __ ] Of

course, you know, [laughter]

100 thousand times.

>> But it's like that guy's he's so [ __ ]

terrifying once he gets a hold of you.

Like he submits everybody.

>> He's a whole lot better in the standup

than people give him credit for.

>> Oh, he is.

>> His standup is actually really cool.

>> Head kick Vulcanowski. I don't care if

Vulcanowski took it on 11 days notice.

He's still headkick.

>> He's got a sneaky left headkick, high

kick. It's nasty. He [ __ ] people up

standing up. And that's part of the

problem is that like you get accustomed

to thinking about this guy and then all

a sudden bing.

>> Yeah. My point was though was that there

was no he put the weight on properly. He

looked fantastic against Justin Gatei

and then to go back down there to fight

Iliad. I was like doesn't make sense.

You're the number one guy on your body.

It is you kill yourself to get it down

back down and then he he gets knocked

out which we had never seen before.

>> Well, that's Roy Jones Jr. too, right?

Remember when Roy Jones Jr. who went up

and fought Ruiz and then he went all the

way down to 75 and got knocked out by

Tarver.

>> Yep.

>> It's like I don't think your body wants

to go back down again. You put on all

that weight over like a year. You're

lifting weights. You're And Max had like

a ridiculous strength and conditioning

program. He put real weight on. He

looked very good at 55.

>> When Max fought Aldo the first time for

the title, he uh he weighed, you know,

obviously weighed in at championship

weight 145 the night of the fight. Joe,

now he was in street clothes, but they

put him on a scale. 178.

>> WHAT?

>> Swear to God.

>> 178. Now he's still He was still

clothed.

>> That's crazy. What is he wearing? Rocks

in his pockets. That's crazy. So, let's

>> Frank Shamrock with quarters in his

pocket.

>> Let's Right. When he fought Tito, let's

let's just be real charitable and say

his clothes weigh 10 pounds.

>> Exactly.

>> That's crazy.

>> You're looking at more than 20 pounds.

But

>> that's crazy all the time. the the show

that just happened in uh California at

the Inuit doing with that the MVP the

one guy I can't you know 27 pound

difference in weight at 170 lbs came in

27 197

>> who was it

>> I want to say his name uh

>> was it the guys right before Saladine

Parnas uh Frema

>> Fremont

>> starts with a Z I want to say I can't I

can't think of it but 27 pounds

>> well obviously the biggest one was

Rumble Johnson Rumble Johnson was the

craziest. He would weigh 230 and make it

all the way to the basically what

Morales is doing right now.

>> MVP event on Netflix.

>> Fazil Fazil. There you

>> go.

>> Namo Fazil recorded the highest weight

gain. 27.2 lbs. That's insane.

>> Can you believe that?

>> That's insane. That's so much. He got

into cage at 198 for a 170lb fight. I

would love to get Morales on the the

scales like right before he fought Shawn

Brady.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Like excuse me, sir. And Shawn Brady

Shawn Brady is a a thick human. He's not

He's not super tall, but he's thick. Oh,

yeah.

>> He is put together.

>> And Morales made him look like a

lightweight.

>> Like he's in the wrong division.

>> Exactly. He look like a light.

>> I was trying to make sense of it

watching it on TV. I thought maybe it

was the camera angle and then they

shifted. I was like, "No, he's still

bigger than him when he's further

[laughter] away.

>> He's further away. Still bigger.

Exactly.

>> He's way bigger than him." Yeah,

>> it was a that's a crazy situation where

a guy can do that and it's like the

Pereira situation 8852 when a guy can do

that.

>> First of all, how long can you do it?

>> That's you know cuz you're basically

killing your kidneys every time you do

it. You're just taking a little bit out

of them.

>> That was the problem with AJ, you know,

like I I used to coach and corner AJ

early in his career when he first came

into the UFC and that was his problem.

He'd make weight, sometimes he'd make

it, sometimes he wouldn't. He missed

weight a lot to the point where

>> you think that affected whatever Yeah,

absolutely. God, that's [ __ ]

horrible.

>> That's [ __ ] horrible.

>> Again, you're leaving small bits and

pieces of yourself

>> of course

>> in that damn cage every time. Even when

you win,

>> he died. I was like, "No,

>> there's a true science to cutting

weight." And he just he didn't have it

down. Like he he wrestled, you know,

NC2A, he wrestled division 2. Like he

was a really good wrestler. He knew how

to make weight, but then trying to kill

himself to get to 70 every single time,

>> which he never had to be at,

>> which Yeah. He never had to be.

>> He never had to be at. I mean, he has

massive power. He did great at

heavyweight very fast. He beat Arlovski

at heavyweight

>> in the World Series of Fight World

Series a long time ago. Arloski was

still super legit.

>> Broke Arlovski's job.

>> Not that is not super legit now. [ __ ]

guy wins bare knuckle heavyweight

championship [laughter] at like 100

years old.

>> Dude, you got to love it and fought it

smart. Yeah.

>> Look [laughter] at there's a you take a

look at Andre Arowski and people will

say whatever they want about his career

is amaz since UFC 28 was his first show.

Nuts.

>> Okay. went all the way went all the way

into today's day basically

>> and but he changed his style.

>> You know, Arloski was a big power

puncher for a long time and then was

getting hit with big shots and said,

"You know what? I'm going to be a volume

guy." And he was successful with it.

Yeah.

>> And didn't take near as much damage.

>> Yeah. He fought a lot more technical, a

lot slicker.

>> Yeah.

>> Didn't take big chances.

>> Beat a lot of good guys, too, man.

>> Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his

prime.

>> Yep. Oh, that that fight with Travis

Brown.

>> Amazing. was a freaking awesome fight.

>> Awesome fight. Awesome fight. Yeah, he

beat Rothwell.

>> He tore Rothwell up,

>> which is a lot of people were super

surprised by that. Oh yeah.

>> A lot of people thought, you know,

Roswell's a tank of a man and he's a

[ __ ] scary big puncher and he just

looks hairy like a [ __ ] bear. He's

scary.

>> Rothell's close to 400 lb.

>> That's crazy. Is that real?

>> Yeah, he's real.

>> He's really that big. He's that big.

Unbelievable.

>> But meanwhile, he's the one getting

busted up in this fight. And it was

because, you know, Arlosski was just

fighting very clever.

>> Just so tough for years, man.

>> You watch this fight right now, they

think that this fight gets stopped for

that cut on his forehead. That is not

why. He has a cut on his eye running up

into his tear duct.

>> And that's why it was it wasn't that big

of a cut, but anytime it goes to the

tear duct,

>> the right there's the doctor saying,

"Oh, no, it's over."

>> Yeah. To touch to touch on what John was

saying though is it really just comes

down to how he changed his style of

fighting. He either fought you all the

way in or all the way out. He fought you

in that foam boost so he couldn't get

off big power shots to avoid being get

knocked out cuz he went through a phase

where he was getting clipped a lot and

getting knocked out.

>> Getting hurt.

>> Yeah.

>> So, he made that adjustment. That's good

on him.

>> And all those years in the game, never

lost his enthusiasm.

>> No. You know,

>> he's a character.

>> You're talking he's fighting influencers

at shows.

>> Have you [laughter]

draw that

in the little kid? That was crazy.

>> Imagine those [ __ ] dumb kids.

>> Right. little midgets running around

trying to [ __ ] get him. I was like,

"What are you guys doing?

>> Are you crazy? Do you know who that is?"

>> The best part was then the the florister

kid goes, "Hey, you can fight my

bodyguard." Bodyguard's in the

background going,

>> "Uhoh,

>> sure. Yeah, I'll do it." [laughter] He's

like, "Yeah, I'll find him. That's a

good idea.

>> Your bodyguard doesn't know who Olowski

is. You need to get a new bodyguard."

[laughter]

>> He's telling him that my bodyguard will

fight him. I was like, "Oh shit."

>> Oh, Jesus Christ. Did you guys watch the

Rico Verhovven Usyk fight?

>> Oh, yes.

>> I watched the ending. Yeah. Oh, yes.

>> Thought it was a I don't want to say

robbery cuz I guess apparently Usyk was

up on the scorecards two two to one.

>> That That's robbery. That's the robbery.

That's the robbery. If that's the case,

that's a robbery.

>> He was up. I guess

>> I thought ver first off, Rico Verhovven,

you know, we know what he's been in

kickboxing and he's been fantastic.

>> Greatest of all time.

>> Unbelievable.

>> Greatest of all time.

>> Yeah. And and you can look back on

certain people, you know, Ernesto Hoost,

how great he was. Bajari was a badass.

>> All of them were awesome, but Rico's

accomplished more than anybody.

>> Absolutely.

>> He's been undefeated for like more than

10 years in kickboxing. That's nuts.

That's nuts.

>> Especially with the amount of rounds

comparatively and stuff because you can

have a bad round and it can really

affect your fight just like MMA.

>> But this fight, I really thought going

in I go, look, Rico will do okay for the

for the first couple rounds and then

it's going to start to get to him.

>> I was shocked by it.

>> He he fought very clever and he he

didn't fight he didn't fight big. He

actually he created the problems of

closing that distance every time. Look

how close he get he kept on getting into

the phone booth and he would do work

>> and it was causing Usyk nothing but

problems. Also, Rico is known for his

discipline and his fitness like he's a

guy who always has tremendous

conditioning and I think there's a lot

of heavyweights that would be surprised

at the work that this guy does and the

pace that he could put on. So, a lot of

people are like, "Oh, he's going to get

tired. He only fights threeinut rounds.

>> Honestly, I was thinking it gets past

five rounds, I'm wondering how he's

going to be able to hold that pace.

>> The guy's such a cardio fiend and he's

always shredded and he's just he's so

used to combat too that like getting in

there just fighting Usyk. It's not a big

deal.

>> That right hand right there was I mean

beautiful,

>> bro. He was winning 8-2 in my eyes. I

thought he was winning eight-2 going

into the 11th round when the fight was

stopped. Now, the fight shouldn't have

been stopped the way it was stopped, but

also

>> that wasn't eight seconds after the

knockdown. So, after he gets knocked

down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece.

So, then they have to go over to the

corner. They rinse off. That's a mistake

right there.

>> Yeah. The whole thing's a mistake. It

takes like 30 seconds and then the

referee stops it when he's still

standing, moving around.

>> Look, if there's one one of the things

that changed in boxing since I look I

referee boxing now.

>> So, here it is right here. This is the

end. We could watch it real quick. So,

this is the end. Look at all this time.

So he's up and he goes over. This is a

mistake right here. Lumbering over to

his corner. Hey, come on over. Watch the

first. Watch the first thing that

happens. And this is what we'll talk

about. Oh. Oh, a dropped. That's on

purpose. I'm doing that on purpose.

>> Of course I would. Any second counts.

But then look at this. So he swarms him

with some punches, but Rico's moving.

He's covering up. He's moving. And what

is he supposed to do?

>> Yeah.

>> What is he supposed to do? That's a bad

stoppage.

>> I agree. So, if you're going to stop it

because you felt like the first

knockdown was too much, why would you

let him rinse the glove off? And he

doesn't take significant damage after

that. That's a bad stoppage.

>> No, that's Well, and it's also the end

of the round.

>> It's the end of the round.

>> It's literally the end of the round. I

think he actually stops it when the

round's over.

>> But you look as the referee, Joe, you

know all of this. And if you don't,

>> you're not doing your job. First off,

you know, he's got a full minute. If I

let this go one second,

>> he's got a full minute to recover here.

Even if I did think he was a little bit

hurt.

>> Now, I think that if that was a

legitimate 8 count and they went right

back to fighting, he would have stopped

him there.

>> Maybe

>> I think he was really rocked. When you

see him go back to his corner, maybe is

the key word.

>> See, one of the things it used to be

though in boxing, it was always that you

would if a mouthpiece hit the ground,

you had to take it to the corner, have

it rinsed with water, and have it placed

back in the fighter's mouth. Right.

>> Okay. That's not the way it is anymore

because of MMA. And the fact that we

take a we take a mouthpiece off of the

ground and shoot stuff it right back in

the fighter's mouth.

>> They have now changed to the point of

they do the same thing. And the

difference is many times we'll hand the

mouthpiece to the to the MMA fighter

because they have, you know, gloveless

fingers.

>> Right.

>> Right. And they put it back in.

Sometimes we'll put it back in depending

upon situations. But in boxing now, you

take it, I'll put it back in his mouth.

I'll say, "Is that good?" Boom. Fight.

And you don't

>> is that is that in Egypt as well? Do you

think that's possible?

>> You're talking about, you know, with

under the unified rules of boxing now,

which is North America.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. That's, you know, most of the time

you go to Egypt, they're still fighting

under the unified rules,

>> but the refereeing is always going to be

different. When you get a referee from

England or somewhere, it's it's a little

bit different. I

>> But I wonder if the referee rules are

different over there. If you're supposed

to rinse off the mouthpiece before you

put it back. No, what it means is you

have not advanced as a referee to

understand what we do now.

>> Right. But what I'm saying is do they

have different rules over there? This is

what I'm saying. Definitely not.

[clears throat]

>> You have not advanced as a referee to

understand what we do now.

>> Mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up,

you put it right back in the So, it's

like when the UFC goes to a country that

doesn't have a commission, they sometime

they'll bring Herb Dean, they'll bring

referees with them. So, they know the

rules to make sure that something like

this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't

followed up with the rules

>> in a big time fight. So it cost

>> he's not he's not gone and and advanced

his you know training to understand this

is what we do now and this is why

because we don't want I don't want to

take that time from Usyk because Usyk

did his job right

>> he hit him with an uppercut that

absolutely blasted him puts him on the

mat you go and he gets up you give him

the mandatory now his mouthpiece comes

out am I going to walk it over to a

corner and have that mouthpiece washed

out with water which does what for it

>> does it disinfect

Exactly. [laughter]

Okay. And that's the real thing, you

know. So, it doesn't do anything. And

[laughter]

obviously, if there's something in the

mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the

mouthpiece. But, you know, normally

[snorts] it's just spitting blood. If

that's what's there,

>> put it back in. Boom. Bring him back in

as abruptly as you can to make it fair

for Usyk, who gained an advantage in the

fight. You don't want to give the

advantage to Verhovven.

>> Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in

the fight as well. It's like that's a

bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world

class kickboxer. World champion

kickboxing

>> should be so hard for you to pull out.

>> Yeah. It's odd that it kept falling out

of his mouth.

>> Rico with a boiling bite is nuts,

[laughter]

>> right? In the heavyweight division.

>> That's nuts.

>> Do you remember Carl Parisian?

>> Sure.

>> He would wear a boiling bite that wasn't

boiled.

>> Oh jeez.

>> Straight out of the packaging. That

>> That's the way people are though.

>> That's wild to me. [gasps]

>> Boiling bites are nuts. Well, it's also

nuts here. Here's a We talk about this

on the the USC broadcast all the time,

but I think it's nuts that you're still

allowed to wear a tie steel cup.

>> I think it's [ __ ] crazy.

>> It's crazy. You have a I would too.

>> That's all I ever wore. I can't believe

I can't wrap my head around how fighters

don't wear them.

>> 100%. I would I agree with you 100%.

However, it should be illegal. It's

[ __ ] crazy. You have a piece of metal

over your dick. You have actual iron

over your [ __ ] and if a guy kicks it

with his toe, it's going to shatter.

>> I've always wondered the north south

position. And you just start humping

their head, right?

>> Oh, dude. Just giving them the business.

The one that did that.

>> Remember Renavardi? Do you remember that

guy? Boss root student. I trained with

him at Legends and he mounted me once

and he almost made me tap by Yeah. by

just digging his dick into my sternum.

[laughter] [ __ ] like this is so rude.

They grapefind me. And I'm like, bro,

you're [ __ ] killing me with this.

>> [ __ ] shy Carter. Shy Carter. Oh shy

Carter used to wear oversized cup.

>> Also awesome for arm bars, too. That's

how that's how Frank Mir broke Tim

Sylvia's arm.

>> Oh yeahense.

That completely makes sense.

>> Yeah,

>> but I think it would have broken it if

it was just as nuts.

>> Well, as strong as Frank could be,

>> as strong as he was, as how good his

armor was and in that position,

>> that was a crazy situation.

>> Oh, yes, it was.

>> That was crazy because I don't think the

people in the audience had any idea what

had happened. Are you if you go back to

that, you know, because Herb Dean was a

referee and and Herb did a great job,

but it was I was actually in the corner

of Tim Sylvia, you know, where I was

sitting and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt

Hughes and Pat Militic are in his

corner, right? And they had the I had

the same view that they had. And what

you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his

elbow out from that armbar. Yeah. Away

from the hip. And all of a sudden, Herb

stopping it. And they are going crazy.

They're going, "What are you doing?

You're, you know," and they're calling

him every name in the book. And I go

right inside the octagon and and I go,

"Herb, what did you have?" And he goes,

"John, his arm broke." I go, "His arm

broke." And he goes, "I heard it and I

saw it."

>> Yeah. You can see the vibration.

>> And he he goes, "His arm broke." Right.

And so at the time the uh the person who

was in charge of the medical staff for

the Nevada State Athletic Commission

since it was in Nevada, they're looking

at Tim and Tim is like going, you know,

but you saw Tim slowly stopped doing

using that one arm started going down

the side as

>> as reality started setting in and the

pain started coming.

>> But they they basically said there's

nothing wrong with his arm.

>> Right. I swear I swear to you, Herb

Herb's greatest response I've ever

heard. He he goes, "Ex-ray that

motherfucker." Right? [laughter] Uh

>> because Herb never cusses, right? He

goes, "X-ray that [ __ ] It's

broken." Right? And sure enough,

straight across both bones.

>> Well, we could see it in the replay in

the replay forearm cuz everybody was

booing. I'm like, "You got to watch

this. Watch this. What's that? What's

that right there? That's a broken arm."

>> When I saw it the first time on TV, I

thought it just shifted off of the cup

cuz sometimes you'll see that the bone

will shift off, but then it you can tell

you saw it on the replay. Two distinct

pops. Pop

>> and it had like that highlight where

something bends like a piece of plastic.

>> [laughter]

>> He looked horrible, man. Oh my god,

>> that was hor he's broken more arms. Like

he broke Noggera's arm. That spiral

fracture.

>> Spiral fracture with the kamura. Yeah.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Yeah. He's nasty, man.

>> No, that's You know, it's funny cuz you

if you're around, you know, Frank and

you're talking, he'll always say,

>> "Oh, here it is. I don't want to watch

it again." Oh, watch it.

>> Boom.

>> Here it comes.

>> Right here. POP.

>> OH.

OH, GOD.

And it's the forearm, too, which is like

super unusual.

>> And everyone's wondering, "Why'd you

stop it? Why'd you stop it?"

>> Oh, dude. Herb was getting booed out of

the arena there.

>> I remember this. I remember. And Tim is

complaining. Like, come on, bro.

>> Like, you know what just He has to know

what just happened.

>> Oh, he knows.

>> He's got He's just such an animal. He

wanted to fight with a broken arm, which

is

>> which, you know, literally you might

have to get it amputated if you did

that. Oh,

>> like, who knows what kind of damage you

would have after that. You could lose

your arm.

>> Yeah. You literally And that's, you

know, this is, but you'll get people all

the time, you know, I mean, some of the

commentators on some of the shows, you

know, oh, if he wants to fight, let him

fight. It's like, shut up.

>> Shut up. Okay. Shut up.

>> Yeah. This is You got to protect the

fighter from themselves.

>> Exactly. This is not life and death. If

you lose a fight, I know it sucks, but

it just sucks. And it's not life and

death. You're It's okay.

>> Like crazy situations like Carlos

Oldberg who knocks out Yur Prohaska with

a clearly blown out knee. Oh, yeah.

Well, you're [laughter] like, if that

went to the round at the end of the

round, it would have probably stopped

the fight.

>> Well, think about what Santos, right? He

ended up fighting Jon Jones with two

torn out ACLs or PCL, right?

>> That's Jon Jones.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean,

>> and gave him a good fight.

>> Gave him a great fight. I think that was

a split decision.

>> Oh, it was.

>> Which is nuts. Nuts. Like, he could have

won. We had like one more incompetent

judge. [laughter]

>> Now we're going to incompetent judges.

Now we're going to have problems. Well,

whoever was judging the Usyk fight was

incompetent. Those those people were

ridiculous that the fact that they

didn't have Rico ahead is crazy. They

just I think when you got a guy like

Usyk who's arguably the greatest

heavyweight boxer of all time. He's

definitely in the conversation. And then

you have so much money involved in him

being undefeated. And so, and whether

the referee's corrupt or not, they know.

Whether the judges are corrupt or not,

they know. And if they [ __ ] things up

for everybody. Yeah. You know, there's

like there's some weird shenanigans that

go on in boxing there. You remember that

lady that scored um uh it was a Pacquiao

fight against Tim Bradley? She scor She

was one of the ones that she scored a

bunch of fights.

>> I thought you were going to talk Canelo

against Triple G.

>> There was a Canelo one. She scored bad.

Yeah, there's a She scored a bunch of

fights where you're like, "What the [ __ ]

is this?" And then you have to realize

about betting props.

>> Yeah,

>> no. No, it's not Adalie Bird though.

>> No,

>> Adelaide Bird was was the Canelo versus

Triple G.

>> Very nice lady.

>> She's a Look, she I'm going to give her

her props [snorts] in this. First off,

she doesn't do a whole lot of boxing

more, but she does do a lot of MMA, does

a lot of the UFC still. And

>> that woman watches more fights, train,

goes to more trainings. She puts in all

the time that you could imagine to

always try to get better. She is asking

questions all the time. Now, if you're

going to sit there and say, "Well, has

she, you know, you know, can she roll?"

No, she can't. But she knows what you

know, if you if you say, "Okay, what's

this?" She'll tell you.

>> What's this?

>> She knows it.

>> She puts in that time. But, you know,

you're always going to have the there's

certain fights no matter what you

they're always going to be there. You

know, as the judge, you always you're

trying to do your best.

>> Yeah. Yeah, but there was this one lady

where she was involved in quite a few

like ridiculous ones and the Tim Bradley

Manny Pacquiao one was a big one and

then they looked at some other ones and

then she stepped away from it. The

problem is and I'm not accusing this

lady or anybody of this but I'm saying

that some people have done this in the

past is that

>> all you have to do is make it a split

decision. [snorts]

>> All you have to do is be one shitty

judge that even though it was clearly

for this guy, you say it's for that guy

and someone's making a ton of loot.

>> Yeah. And

>> especially in this day and age with

betting.

>> 100% man. The UFC has a real problem. Oh

yeah. There's a real problem with quite

a few fights. The FBI has looked into

quite a few fights and there's there's

one that they focused on the beginning

because they knew that there was some

improper betting, but now they're

focused on a bunch of other ones as

well.

>> Yeah. But I'm going to say this about

>> to think that you can get away with it,

John. To think that you're going to be

able to get away with it is just [ __ ]

stupid.

>> You're an idiot as the fighter. You're a

fool. But if you if you if you were

around the judging, especially in the

UFC, because it's it's mainly a lot of

the same guys,

>> you know, they these guys are on text

links. They are consistently every Joe,

every UFC fight, my phone blows up. It

blows up with fighters. It blows up from

other officials asking, "What about

this? What did you see? What do you

think?" And it's because look, it there

is at times

we get media and we get, you know,

people, you know, talking about our

fights that call robberies when there's

no robbery. It's a close fight,

>> right?

>> And if you guy you wanted your guy to

win

[ __ ] robbery, you know, I I pointed

it out to him. I had him sit one time.

Hey, sit where the judge sits

>> because you get one view. You as the

commentator, you get that beautiful

monitor that's in front of you. There's

times when you're watching the fight

live and there's times when you're

watching the monitor because

>> the angles change as the judge now they

put the monitor there for the judges and

and like the UFC puts a great monitor

there for them but we didn't always have

that right

>> and you didn't always many times you had

the worst seat in the house

>> to be able to judge a fight

>> especially if there's a post in front of

you.

>> Yeah. And it's so different than what

people think and it's when you are the

one that's putting your name on that

scorecard. you're signing it. You're and

you know this counts. It's everything.

It is everything to you to to be right.

You want to be right, but many times

what you're seeing and that's why

they're at the three different points

and that's why sometimes, you know,

people get into this, well, it was a

split decision. Split decision is not

always bad.

>> Do you think there be a benefit in

having five judges instead of three?

>> No. No.

>> I've worked with it. I've done it too

many times. It doesn't change anything.

>> It doesn't

>> doesn't change anything. I'm just being

honest. If it did, I would say I yeah,

we should do it.

>> But if you have two bad judges and three

good ones,

>> why do you have two bad judges?

>> That's the question.

>> That is the question. But when you're on

the road, let's be [laughter] honest,

when we're on the road, we do like,

let's not even name a state, but we show

up and we have to use these regular

local guys. There have been issues.

>> I'm not saying there haven't, right?

>> I'm not saying there haven't.

>> There are bad judges. Absolutely. I love

cops. There's bad cops. There are

>> I love dentists. There's some bad

dentists. There's some [ __ ] people

that do surgeries that don't have to do

them.

>> You know what I mean? It's like it

doesn't It's not saying that the people

that do it and do a great job shouldn't

be supported and praised, and they

definitely should,

>> but it's also it's like it would benefit

I think everybody to have a few more

opinions. Like I like Verdict. Have you

seen Verdict MMA?

>> Verdict MMA. I've bumped them up a bunch

of times.

>> I think they're accurate like 99% of the

time. I I looked at the verdict score.

I'm like most of the time out of a 100

fights, most of the time I agree with

the verdict score. There's many times

though you can take a look this when I

started teaching the command course and

everything people oh you got to teach

stuff I'm teaching people to take my job

>> right

>> okay but in the end I

>> need a lot of referees luckily

>> they need a lot of judges

>> but they also need a lot of referees for

the big ones where you can't [ __ ] this

up

>> you know what I mean

>> like that's where

>> it is it's important but it it's not the

job that people think it is it is not as

easy as people think it is

>> oh it's definitely And it's definitely

>> it's the hardest job next to being a

fighter.

>> Yeah.

>> I think it's fighters number one,

referees number two.

>> Yes and no. And you're right. As far the

fighting is much more difficult as far

as, you know, what it does to your body

and and what you have to put out into it

and all that. Way more difficult.

>> Also, the consequences of [ __ ] it up.

>> Boom.

>> I don't have the consequences of if I

make a bad call as a commentator, it's

like, "Oh, Joe's an idiot." That doesn't

mean anything. Like, nobody loses money.

Like somebody could lose half their

[ __ ] purse, which I hate, by the way.

Yeah. I don't like I don't like the

whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to

win.

>> Can't stand it.

>> Can't stand it. You should get paid.

You're a prize fighter. You should get

paid to compete. This is the number

whether it's 200,000 or two. It

shouldn't be dependent upon judges

decisions. It should be dependent upon

you showed up. You fought your [ __ ]

ass off. You're trying to win. If you

win, you're going to make more money. No

one's trying to lose, right? So, it's

like, what are we doing? This episode is

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important safety information. I'm okay

with the win bonus, but it's got to be

more skewed towards the show money. So,

give me like let's just I'm using a

round number of 100,000. 8020.

>> 8020, right? And then then you give me

another bonus for a finishing bonus. If

I give a knockout, you give me another

20 or 50.

>> Well, they're doing that now. The UFC is

doing finish. Yeah, exactly. But I just

don't like win bonuses. I think you you

know the fact that there have been bad

decisions and guys have lost half their

[ __ ] purse when they need it. And

it's it's it's you got robbed. That's

when you really got robbed. Not just a

decision, but you got robbed

financially, which is [ __ ] crazy to

me. I think fighters should get I don't

think they fight harder. I don't think

anybody fights harder. They want to win.

They want to win. No one's fighting hard

fighting hard because it's just

something sitting out there. And

>> and if they are, they probably shouldn't

be fighting in the UFC anyway because

they're not at elite like world class

level. If they're fighting harder for

>> If you're in the top 15, you're not

going to fight harder because you're

getting paid more. You you've worked

your way there to get there. Your pride

is too involved. Your ego's involved.

You want to

>> You're too [ __ ] good.

>> Yeah. You want to show everyone you're

the best. I've always said, look, if you

ask a fighter before the fight, hey, how

much you going to win for? If they're

going to get a 4040 and they're going to

get a 50/50, they're going to say

100,000. They've already mentally spent

that money. And trust me, it's always

true. [laughter]

>> They they've got they've got that win

bonus in there.

>> True. Kind of impulsive. [laughter]

>> Yeah. It's

>> fighters aren't the best at saving cash.

>> I know. You know, so

>> it's But you take a look, you know, when

you sit there. Good at saving money

though is Strickland. You would think

he'd be the most reckless guy. Very

smart. Very smart with his money.

>> Yeah. Buy like most of these guys are

buying jeans and shirts and glasses.

This dude's buying Wranglers and he

wears the same thing every day. White

beater tape topens.

But he saves his money, man. He's got a

lot of money saved up.

>> Learning how Learning how smart learning

how to be frugal is very important,

especially if you're an athlete. Any

type of athlete doesn't matter.

>> Especially if you're an athlete like

Strickland who still rides a motorcycle.

>> That's psychop.

>> I still ride a motorcycle.

He's still

>> You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir

when he broke his femur? Like surprise

fighters.

>> Frank Mir breaking his femur is what

kept me from getting a motorcycle

license. That was the last one. Yeah.

Two friends crashed. One friend wiped

out and [ __ ] up his shoulder and then

Frank Mir got t-boned and I was like,

I'm out.

>> It all comes down. There's the old

saying, there's two types of motorcycle

riders. Ones that have been down and

ones that are going down.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And that's just the truth.

>> That's the problem. I felt like I'm

hurting myself so many days a week just

doing jiu-jitsu that like that doing

that on top of that it's like I don't

want to risk

>> No. Yeah.

>> Especially if you haven't been doing it

because there there's ways to ride and