I can help you get more of what you want

create the highest form of discipline

how not to care about what other people

think that's the meaning of life right

there so Brian holiday the modern day

philosopher king whose books have sold

more than 4 million copies all across

the world helping people to live better

more meaningful lives we live in a time

where we procrastinate it's totally

screwed up why do we not prioritize our

health why do we not do the stuff that

we know we should do it's because we

think we have forever but the reality is

you do have a terminal diagnosis and to

live in rejection of that fact is to

waste your life so how do we change that

it takes a lot of courage and it takes a

lot of discipline discipline is the

ability to do hard stuff that you don't

want to do for benefits way down the

line and there's almost no one who is

successful in life who does not have

that form of discipline like if you can

cultivate that you're gaining Freedom

that a lot of people have never even

tasted but it's very hard to be

disciplined as you're stuffing your face

or if you feel like garbage you need

struggle so do something physically

difficult every day a strong mind and a

strong body you have to have both so

what do you say to those people that

find themselves completely absent of

apparent discipline it's such a critical

thing that you need is otherwise

somebody else determines whether you're

good or not and that's not how you want

to go through life so here's a set of

strategies that will help you whatever

life has in store for you the first

would be

quick one this is really really

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Ryan how do you summarize

what you do and why you do it

why I do it is much easier for me to

articulate which is that I get better

for doing it like we tend to think of

philosophy as this thing that you

consume that you read or listen to but

it's it's actually more of like a

discourse it's a conversation and so the

process of writing about and talking

about and researching the stoics like is

made me a better person uh

because I've I've been actually that is

what stoicism is it's this process of uh

Reading Writing and debating these ideas

and that's how they sort of get into

your bloodstream and and then hopefully

in actual situations in your life you

apply them right so why I write about

philosophy is to me

much clearer what I would Define the

philosophy that I talk about

as that's a little tougher uh I I write

about an obscure School of Angel

velocity called stoicism maybe people

have heard of Marcus Aurelius or Seneca

or Epictetus that's the those are the

big three that we call them but

basically starting in ancient Greece and

making its way to ancient Rome there was

this

practical Philosophy for life so not

theoretical or abstract ideas sort of

unanswerable questions or Paradox that's

kind of what we tend to think of

philosophy as stoicism was like

how should a person live right what is

the good life how do I deal with my

temper how do I deal with the fact that

I'm afraid of death how what kind of job

should I have like what are my

obligations to other people philosophy

in the stoic senses was designed to be

the sort of guide To Living and

what I do is I I am continuing and

popularizing that conversation which has

been going on for something like 22 23

centuries one of the things you've

really reframed in a lot of people's

minds is that is the word discipline and

what it means yeah because the

definition of discipline that I

understood before discipline is Destiny

was this kind of painful restraint

despite my urges for the sake of some

kind of goal that I have yeah

um what is discipline in your definition

of the word and what that really means

that it's core well I think it's

important to note that the Stokes are

talking about self-discipline right so

discipline is not you know the marine

sergeant telling everyone else what to

do how to be right the Stokes are

talking about the virtue of

self-discipline which is you have your

standards that you selected for yourself

that you are living up to it's not a

weapon that you wielded in to other

people right and I think so often when

we hear discipline we think

disciplinarian right someone who's

really strict one of the beautiful lines

in meditations Marx realists is um

remember tolerant with others strict

with yourself and actually that that

itself demands so much more discipline

right to be like uh I never accept being

late for me or for other people right I

work hard I judge people that are not in

shape right I expect long hours from

everyone that works for me you know

there's that sort of rigid strict form

of discipline but to I I have found in

my own journey in my own life that it

actually requires more discipline to go

this is what I expect of myself

and this is how I'm wired this is how I

operate best and then I understand that

other people not only do I not control

them

but they have different proclivities

different ways of living different ways

of being

and that my job is to figure out how to

adapt myself to them instead of forcing

them to be like me Marcus to really is

it's fascinating he has this stepbrother

and there could not be more two more

different people than Marcus Aurelius

and his stepbrother Lucius Ferris and

Marcus makes this remarkable decision

soon after becoming Emperor which is

that he names his stepbrother this guy

has no blood relation to he names him

co-emperer the first thing he does with

unlimited power is he gives half of it

away to someone with an almost opposite

style of living being leadership and in

the beginning of meditations Marx

realist he talks about his brother like

at length he doesn't call him his step

brother calls him his brother and he

says you know

what I learned from my brother he says

I'm so grateful to have had this person

in my life a man whose character helped

me improve my own and the point was I

think not only did he have to learn how

to practice the virtues of acceptance

flexibility meeting people where they

are but Marcus had to adjust himself and

find the good in this person and and not

try to make this person just like him or

be disappointed and judgmental of this

person for not being just like them

right and so when we think of discipline

so often it's rendered as this form of

rigidity but I think the highest form of

discipline is the ability to it

to adjust and be flexible and adapt and

the really great leaders really great

people managed to get stuff out of

people who are not like them right they

don't write someone off because they

don't have the same high standards as

them or they don't get that person to

reach those high standards through Force

right or bullying or judgment but but

through example through inspiration

right through uh discussion and so I

don't know I'm trying to render

discipline not only in that sense but

I think often also when we think of

discipline we think about it in the

physical form right discipline is

running harder running longer lifting

more weight working more hours and that

physical discipline is essential and

there's almost no one who is successful

in life who does not also have that form

of physical discipline and in the

instruction you say discipline gives us

freedom which again feels like that's

typically not what people think of

discipline we think of discipline as

taking our freedom and making our lives

as you say more rigid yeah as you were

saying then like more rigid and less

less choices less optionality but in the

introduction of your book you say

discipline gives us freedom

Epictetus is this slave he's a slave in

Nero's court and

imagine the contrast this person who has

no Freedom completely impoverished their

body their work their labor is all

stolen from them and then they're

surrounded by not just opulence but

power right and ambition and fame right

be surrounded by the The Who's Who of

Roman life and Epictetus looks around

and he realizes

that he's Freer than all these people

and he realizes he's Freer than all

these people because

they're not in control of themselves

they might be legally free but they're

slaves to their ambition or their slaves

to the job they've gotten or their

family name or their urges their

Temptations right

and he realizes that if you're not in

control of your aversions and your

desires right he says these are the two

forces of human life what you want what

you don't want

if you're not in command of what you do

what you think

it really doesn't matter you know what

your legal status is right you're not as

free as you think you are

and I

think we've all experienced that you

you've met people you've probably had

them on the show

enormous Bank balances enormous

followings

uh hugely powerful jobs and then you

know they're like sorry I have a heart

out at 1106. you know or whatever right

like they're running from thing to thing

their phone is constantly ringing like

they're sitting here they're the

powerful person but someone's coming

whispering and like the assistant is

actually in charge right or or

um you know the the wanting the the more

the next thing the next accomplishment

that's what's really driving them and

and so you know the stoics were

successful and they did do things in the

world they weren't all like Epictetus

but they did they they understood that

if you're not in charge of yourself and

your life like your emotions your

thoughts you know what you will do and

what you won't do it really doesn't

matter what you can do you're not free

and and

when you are in this way of something

whether it's an addiction uh whether

it's momentum of your career

um whether it's just doing what everyone

else is doing like you're not

you're not free and so creating

structure and rules

it can feel limiting

and like you're giving up freedom but

you're actually gaining Freedom that a

lot of people have never even tasted

I've been thinking a lot recently about

um the commitments we make to ourselves

and the importance of keeping those

commitments sure and I'm thinking when I

say that I mean the small things I'm

gonna do this yeah I mean it's Jordan

Peterson might say like I'm gonna make

my bed well or it could be I'm gonna

quit quit drinking alcohol or I'm gonna

have vegetables instead of I don't know

Pizza

these small commitments we make and the

impact they have on the story We believe

about ourselves yeah and I've I was just

thinking I think it was this morning or

I was going to write something about it

how the size of the commitments we keep

to ourselves correlates to the size of

the the reward it spits out on the other

end so if we keep big commitments to

ourselves in terms of the impact on our

self-esteem our self-story the evidence

we have about Who We Are

it has a correlates really that's not

even a word but it has an equally big

output what do you think about that

keeping commitments to ourselves in uh

in the road the Cormac McCarthy novel

The the little boy is talking to his dad

they're sitting around a campfire and

they they've agreed to like oh split

everything evenly sort of the system

they have the Dad gives the sun like a

little more of the hot chocolate like

he's trying to be nice and the the sun's

upset and and he says Dad like you

promised we would split everything

evenly and he says Dad if you break the

little promises you'll break the big

ones I think that's such a beautiful

idea not just as a parent but as a

person right it shouldn't matter you

said hey I'm gonna get up at six

and then the alarm goes off at six and

then you hit snooze and you hit snooze

and you go I don't actually have to be

anywhere today I'll just go back to

sleep and wake up whenever I think or as

a writer like writing is not fun having

written is fun so you're always trying

to come up with reasons that you don't

have to do it today

but

if you build

you're building the muscle either way

you're either building the muscle

that says I do what I say

I

keep the commitments that I make or

you're building the muscle that says I

make excuses I don't do what I say I

can't be counted on right and so when we

think about discipline it's really about

like what promises are you going to keep

and the tricky thing is you're keeping

promises to yourself that nobody even

knows that you made right it's not it's

not like hey you made this Commitment if

I don't write this book by this time

like uh

you know I I have to do this

embarrassing thing or you know that I'm

all retired you know they're not even

you're not really putting their ass on

the line in that sense but you've said

to yourself you're going to do this

thing and building that muscle is really

important I mean I do think one of the

critical things about having a physical

practice is you are building that muscle

that muscle of like I told myself I'm

gonna do this hard thing now that hard

thing is

approaching and am I going to come up

with an excuse am I going to give myself

a way out or I'm going to do it and then

when you do it now you're in the middle

of it

and now you're tired and there's this

voice inside of you that says well no

one's watching you can stop anytime you

want just turn around just go back or

slow down

um it'd be easier if you slow down and

the muscle or the part of you that is

able to override that is a really

critical muscle

Seneca says you know we treat the body

rigorously so that it is not disobedient

to the mind

and I think about that I have a cold

Plunge at my house and there's

supposedly all these health benefits to

doing the cold plunge you know it

increases your metabolism or circulation

you know there's all these studies

and they're probably true I mean I I

they they sound like they're true I'm

not a scientist I have no idea but to me

all of that is extra to me what the cold

plunge is is that it's it's the sitting

down in the thing when I know how cold

it's going to be and I know I'm not

going to get used to it or comfortable

for at least a couple minutes right like

the the cranking of the knob in the

shower is the other version or the the

shower's not warmed up and the forcing

the step in before it's cold that's the

hell that's the health benefit like

that's the thing that you're getting out

of it is the ability to do hard stuff

that you don't want to do for uncertain

benefits or benefits way down the line

like if you can cultivate that

you're Golden That's where books come

from that's where businesses come from

that's where losing weight comes all of

it comes from the ability to do that

hard thing that you don't want when the

when the rewards are not

immediate or instantaneous and we've all

got different size muscles in that

regard sure right so some of us

can't maybe because we spiraled down we

didn't keep a commitment to ourselves

which meant that our esteem yeah lower

and then we didn't keep another

commitment because of that and now our

self-opinion or our self story of of

ourselves and our ability to do things

is so in the bin now yes that you know

it seems like we can't keep any

commitments to ourselves we're like so

self-deceptive in so many ways those

people that have really struggled and

they've tried they've struggled they've

tried they've struggled you know they

bought your book because they thought

[ __ ] it maybe there's like a sentence in

here which is gonna gonna get me to the

gym

would you say to those people that find

themselves completely absent of apparent

discipline I think it's really important

when we when we mess up that we don't

identify with that right we identify

with the person that we want to be that

we know that we can be we identify with

the thing happening and then we fall off

right like in in um

sobriety circles they talk about like

falling off the wagon

I like the idea that the wagon is going

and you're either on the wagon or off

the wagon right and the idea when you

fall or you mess up or you make a

mistake or you break that promise like

it's still there like you can get back

on it anytime right that's kind of how I

think about it so instead of going oh

I'm a piece of [ __ ] I'm spiraling I'm

I'm worthless it's it's like no the

thing is continued on you know I'm gonna

run and catch up to it am I going to

start to build those habits again or am

I gonna you know write it off because it

it's it's not there anymore do you know

what I mean I kind of try to think about

it that way it's like just because I've

had a bad week where I was over

scheduled or distracted or I was sick or

whatever and I wasn't writing

that doesn't mean All Is Lost like

I just have to sit down tomorrow or

better I have to sit down now and I just

have to to do a little bit right and

that's what starts that process again

um

it's it's

it's not this like

All or Nothing kind of a thing and I

think when you hear people talk that way

they don't realize but

they're actually it's actually very

convenient to be all or nothing right

like that way because it's giving you an

out or an off instead of going yeah I

did I didn't do what I was supposed to

do the last seven days

but that doesn't say anything about

right now or that doesn't say anything

about tomorrow

what's your thoughts on on how beliefs

are

I I think so much especially recently

about where our beliefs come from and

how that impacts because our confidence

is a belief in ourself and then you know

my discipline seems somewhat connected

to my beliefs and when we think about

flat earthers and their beliefs and how

you change their mind or how I change my

mind about who I am you know I think a

lot about I think if we can understand

how to create belief change we can

control much of our our own Hardware

because my Hardware seems to be this

kind of identity I I now believe about

who Stephen Bartlett is yeah and I'm

just kind of following the instruction

manual of that of those that belief sir

so how do I change that belief about who

I am yeah it is funny like there's

there's sort of the egotism of like

thinking you're better than everyone and

then there's also the kind of egotism

that happens where you're you're like

you're just obsessed with how garbage

you are you know like you're just you're

just thinking about yourself all the

time uh

when really you should just be thinking

about what you either are or aren't

doing you know

um my friend Austin Cleon talks about he

says um

do the verb instead of trying to be the

noun you know so like instead of going

like am I a writer am I not a writer you

know it's like am I writing

you know just do the thing just do the

thing

um and uh you want what you do yeah yeah

do the thing

makes a lot of sense and it's funny

because there's a two-way relationship

there I I don't do the things that I

don't think I am

yes yes if you I if if your sense of

yourself is someone who's not worth

anything

lazy lazy out of shape ugly you know

whatever the Stokes talk about how if

you make beautiful choices you are

beautiful

and I love that it's like hey am I

making good choices like am I like I

don't think about

um

you know is the book coming together is

it working is it brilliant I just go

like um I try to try to radically scale

down what I am asking of myself day to

day so like it's more am I making a

positive contribution today

like I just try to make a positive

contribution every day to what I'm what

I'm working on so

right now I'm editing my next book and

you know a couple days ago I was really

I wrote this new chapter I fixed all

this stuff and um

today

I switched

the title of a chapter from look for the

good in everyone

to find the good in everyone

which is a semantic

tiny change

but also a transformative change as to

what I'm actually arguing right and

was yesterday's work or today's work a

bigger impact on the the project

I don't know but I know that I made

positive Headway positive contributions

on both days so I did my job on both

days sometimes that's really visible and

you're moving a lot of stuff around or

you're creating a lot of stuff and then

other days

you're moving something

a millimeter this way you made positive

progress

to today or yesterday by changing that

title

um the the next half of that sentence is

like towards my goal or towards a

destination or Direction my question

there is how does how does one know the

worthwhile direction to be making

positive incremental progress in

well the Stokes would say that our goals

have to be rooted in what we control

so the epictetuses if you only enter

contests

in which winning is up to you you will

always win right and so when I'm working

on a book if my criteria is how many

copies is it going to sell how well is

it going to be received how happy is my

publisher going to be with it you know

um

how fast is it coming out you know a

bunch of these things

um well then success is determined by

people other than me right the market

the New York Times bestseller lists my

editor my agent random factors you know

but if I'm measuring myself

it's just getting closer to

the book I set out to write

is this the best that I can do is this

meaningful and important to me you know

all but I try to I try to root what I'm

doing as much as possible in my own

standards my own sense what's up to me

and then the commercial success

outside reception

all of that it's nice but it's extra and

and if it's extra then I can enjoy it

um

if it's

if it's essential

but I don't control it what I've really

set myself up for is

potential disappointment

because

the publisher could go out of business

you know the market could shift you

could get canceled you know who knows

what could happen and so the more you're

rooted in is this

your best

I think the happier you're going to be

and then weirdly you you you end up

actually doing better work because

you're focusing all your energy

like where it has impact

I'm sure you've seen this where you know

a clip

that you didn't think would do well

crushes of course and then this thing

that you were like this is amazing it

doesn't do well at all and so I think

it's not that it's random it's just that

you've got to be happy with it yeah and

I used to write a lot of quotes that

went on the internet and my best

performing quote of all time was just

it it violated all of my preconceptions

of what like a good

quote was because I just had an argument

with my girlfriend this one day

six years ago and I wrote a quote that

was like if we're in a relationship I

want to be your second priority I want

your first priority to be you and it

went on it was another couple of

sentences and this and that was that's

the thing that went viral around the

internet and it was it was

unconstrained by like my own

expectations of what a good quote was or

the pattern or the rhythmic or the

syllabics that go into a great quote it

just came from a place of like I really

had a [ __ ] day that day yeah I mean my

girlfriend argued about me working too

much

so yeah no and yeah that's that stuff

that stuff humbles you for sure when

you're like maybe I don't know really

what I'm doing but what I also want to

take from that is like

sometimes stuff that I know I don't

think is good has done extremely well

and then stuff that I am so so proud of

has not done well and so am I gonna

trade my definition of what's good or

not good based on this fickle algorithm

or Randomness or whatever no like you

want to root your sense of whether

you're doing a good job whether you're

succeeding you want to root that as as

much as possible internally

as otherwise somebody else determines

whether you're good or not and that's

like that's not a that's not how you

want to go through life

all self-discipline begins with the body

I think so

uh

it's very hard to be emotionally

disciplined as you're stuffing your face

or if you feel like garbage right like

if I'm not taking care of myself if I'm

not sleeping

if I'm deferring maintenance right then

something stressful comes along I'm just

gonna magically step up and be able to

handle that no like when I'm

when I am

fine-tuned and finely fueled and I'm

taking care of myself

I'm in a place where

emotionally I'm much better off like

every morning I try to go for a walk I

take my kids and we just go outside and

go for a walk

and I try not to bring the phone I try

not to get distracted

is try to be present be outside

I can tell in their behavior the days

when that didn't happen

and I'm sure they can tell in my

demeanor the days that that didn't

happen right

and so taking care of yourself

physically

is setting yourself up to thrive

emotionally and temperamentally

what did stoicism say about that about

the importance of you know keeping

yourself in good shape both cognitively

physically

yeah there's a Latin expression I won't

butcher the Latin but it's basically

like a strong mind and a strong body

that you have to have both you know to

just be very well read very informed or

steeped in philosophy but to be

physically weak and and this isn't

this isn't uh meaning that you have to

be able to lift super heavy weights but

the the idea is is like are you active

are you in charge

um are you pushing yourself you know

that carries over and vice versa should

we will be pushing ourselves yeah for

sure

um physically yeah you know having

something that gets you a win every day

is

a very underrated

philosophical hack right like

um

I try to run or swim or bike every day

I'm not training for a marathon I'm not

trying to set any records I'm trying to

make a promise to myself and keep that

promise

and it doesn't matter how badly the

writing goes it doesn't matter what news

I just got from my agent you know it

doesn't matter how my business is doing

it doesn't matter what the stock

market's doing it doesn't matter what

mean thing somebody just said about me

online

um it doesn't matter if my wife and I

are getting along you know it doesn't

matter if the kids are like if I have

something that every day if I do it

I'm proud of myself for doing it I got

endorphins from doing it I got healthier

from doing it you know I I got some time

away from the screen or work or sitting

in a chair from it like that's hugely

important and it's so easy and it's

something that's up to you you know

um I've never like gone for a run and

then like not made it back you know

um

there's there's lots of days where I

don't want to do it but I'm always glad

that I did it

almost all great leaders great athletes

great philosophers have been

tough yeah

what you mean by tough

I mean they've gone through something uh

Churchill talked about how he says every

every profit every sort of great leader

a great person you know he said they're

they're of society but then they're sent

into the Wilderness right there's some

period where their work is unpopular

where their ideas aren't accepted where

they're struggling to make ends meet or

there's a controversy or whatever you

know Churchill spends

like 33 to 39

basically out of public life sort of

persona non grata and he says that it's

in this Wilderness he says where psychic

Dynamite is made

and his point is that it's it's in that

struggling in not having everyone listen

to you not getting what you want not

having everything at the push of a

button that forces you to really refine

what you think forces you to grow and

change and adapt you know Steve Jobs's

time in the wilderness is when he gets

fired from Apple and he has to go and he

starts these other companies and he has

to look in the mirror and go how did I

get fired from the company that I

started you know and and so we all have

to have that period where we are

wrestling with our demons or a demon and

it's in conquering that

changing from that that we bring back to

whatever we're doing I think a greater

sense of purpose and Clarity and then

hopefully you know better skills

and those moments make us confront our

egos yes yeah there's an ego death in

losing being rejected

realizing you're not what you thought

you were or

it's not going the way that you thought

it was going to go

and

you know ideally you want to learn that

earlier and

cheaper

you don't want to get to the very top

and have it all come crashing down and

have to start over right there were

probably many times a long Steve Jobs's

Journey where

maybe it was a tough meeting or an

investor you know laid out all the

issues to his face but there was an

article there were many moments where he

could have learned that lesson in a way

that was less calamitous than getting

fired getting thrown out

um sometimes that's what people need you

know sometimes sometimes you got to blow

your life up but

it's better that that it's better that

you listen I've said this before but

it's like you know life is always sort

of whispering feedback to you and if you

don't listen to it at some point it has

to hold you down and scream it in your

face

and uh that's avoidable

how did you tune into that voice

whispering

you know it's it's uh for the Stokes it

was like this kind of nightly or daily

conversation with the self this is the

art of journaling this is what Marcus

realist is doing in meditations he's

having a conversation with himself the

most powerful man in the world no one

could tell him what to do

key in the pages of what's become

meditations is going

why are you like this why are you doing

this you know better than this remember

what so-and-so said Remember the

examples of all these people that you

love that have inspired you that you're

trying to be like and try to get back on

the path you're trying to Define what

that path is and I think a process of

really holding yourself accountable

somehow whether it's a

a journal maybe it's quarterly meetings

with a coach or an advisor or a board of

directors

um if it's long walks or you think about

these things there's lots of ways to do

it but I think it's it's the ability to

reflect and evaluate and adjust based on

this information that's what that voice

is right the information is there maybe

deep down we know it but we kind of be

uncomfortable it'd be painful

maybe it wouldn't work

but you got to be you got to be doing

that work and again the sort of

maintenance is going to be cheaper and

easier than than the total rebuild

this third point I believe it was of

wisdom

I've been asking myself a lot recently I

sit and have conversations with some

incredibly smart people yourself

included and I I gain so much from it

sure and I think to myself

what I should really be doing is

writing more

um

what has been the value of writing on

your life the unobvious stuff the

unobvious upsides that you've

experienced from writing

nothing clarifies what you think quite

like

practice or the exercise of writing

something down at Amazon if you like if

you want to launch a new project or

you're suggesting a change if you want

to call a meeting you have to you have

to write it out you have to create a

written agenda in some cases you have to

write a press release for that thing

you're proposing you have to write like

a written pitch for

the whole thing

and it's not so much for the

communicating it to the other people

but it's also about the forcing you to

go through the process of figuring out

what you think and why and

the problems with it the contradictions

of it like for being forced to write it

down is just so different than it just

bouncing around in your head or riffing

on it there's just something very very

powerful about writing and you know

anyone that sat down to write a book I

think you think well I know this better

than anyone I'm really excited about it

then you sit down and and that kind of

enthusiasm or interest that can get you

like the first like 10 pages and then

you just go like you just spent and then

you go well what comes next and how and

how do they build on each other like you

have to have a plan you know you have to

have a system of structure you have to

have solved the whole thing before you

can write it you can't just figure it

out on the Fly Right the stream of

Consciousness stuff like it doesn't work

and so

writing is just really really powerful

I'm a huge believer in all these other

mediums and I make content in all these

other mediums but I write the ideas

first

and it comes from the books the books is

the synthesis of all of it and then if

I'm doing a tick tock or Instagram or a

an article it's all broken out from the

process of having spent many many many

hours sitting and thinking about and

trying to come up with

the best way of expressing this very

complicated idea

and you know the process now I've I've

been doing the daily Stoke so I wrote

the book in 2015 so it's one page a day

so I wrote 366 in one sitting and then

the day I finished the book I said I'm

just gonna keep going I'm just gonna do

One A Day

that we'll put out in the email on the

podcast and so I've been doing that

every day

for eight years

and uh

that's where my understanding of Stills

like obviously I knew about stoicism I'd

written books about it before I'd read

about it a lot but the process of having

to produce

and polish and edit and work on and read

and you know record this one thing every

day one thing every day has been

transformative for me as a person the

fact that you know millions of people

have read them now and listened to them

and watched them all over the world

that's just like like even if it was

never published

that process would have transformed my

life so

in a world where you know you can easily

in two seconds create high-res

immediately shareable video

like the ease of that is almost the Trap

right writing is is hard and always will

be hard and maybe that's why it's good

in the 800 days there

you've got a lot of data back on the

types of things that resonate with

people the subject matter that seems to

speak to their most popular sufferings

concerns anxieties sure what have you

what have you learned about the things

people are struggling with the most and

the answers they seek the most that's a

good question I I don't think about that

so much I I try to just follow where

it's taking me and and I just try to I'm

just always trying to make stuff but I I

it is interesting to think that people

have had the same problems for 2000

years you know like on its face

Marcus realizes meditations should be

inaccessible impractical

incomprehensible like you have

the most powerful man on Earth

emperor of Rome literally worshiped as a

God you know head of the most powerful

Army steeped in philosophy and rhetoric

and all these ancient ideas

writing probably on the front lines of

the battlefield like with the Roman army

in his tent you know in Greek he was

writing in Greek to himself

never intending it to be published

probably be mortified that it ever was

published

and he's writing it for himself like

he's writing notes that are so specific

that a lot of them we don't even know

what they mean he's like remember that

toll operator you know in insert you

know province of the Roman Empire or

remember that thing that so and so said

to you like a lot of them are kind of

notes like that so we know it wasn't for

you and I at all

this is like the literally the most

specific book you could imagine and

somehow

it is timeless and Universal

because

as different and strange and surreal as

his life and experiences

it's fundamentally not that different

than yours and mine

books say about and what does stoicism

say about how we confront unexpected

crises in our lives that we are clearly

not responsible for

you know a cancer diagnosis skip firing

get we get fired from work we something

else bad happens that we were not

responsible for

to me the essence of stoicism is the

idea that we don't control what has

happened but we control how we respond

to what happens and so you know Marcus's

idea to have tattooed on my arm the

obstacles the way you know he says the

impediment to action advances action

what stands in the way it becomes the

way he's saying it say that again

the impediment to action advances action

the impediment to action advances action

it stands in the way becomes the way

he's saying that you know basically it's

like nothing can actually stop us from

what we're trying to do because we can

accommodate and adjust and adapt reasons

we can convert obstacles to our own

purposes basically what he's saying is

that

stuff happens stuff we dread having

happened that we did everything in our

power to prevent from happening that's

not our fault it's totally screwed up

it's painful

all of that but it does happen right and

he says he's basically saying that

now that it's happened

what opportunity does it present you and

it doesn't mean oh hey you know your

mother died that's great for your

business that's not what he's saying

like he's not saying oh this is

wonderful but he's saying that this

tragic terrible frustrating painful

thing happened

there are opportunities in that for you

to step up to grow to be there for other

people to illustrate or demonstrate the

stoic virtues

in moments of Crisis and like business I

always think there's you have a couple

of types of people say this room is on

fire person a paralyzed with fear saying

nothing yeah person be screaming sure

also unhelpful we're gonna die person C

knows the rumors on Fire doesn't need to

say the room is on fire totally focused

on getting out of the room yes and it's

like it's a different way to handle

crisis some people just default to

practical well maybe there's another

person there to extend this analogy who

helps those other people yeah right

right like the idea the idea is the

thing is happening what is it going to

draw out of you who are you going to be

in response to that thing happening

that's what the obstacle is the way it

means it's not that it's great that the

room is on fire it's that the room being

on fire presents you a set of choices

how do I become the person who is going

to survive the fire because I'm focused

not on the fact that the room is on fire

I mean I'm aware of that I'm not denying

the reality of the burning room but I'm

using my energy on what I can control

which is getting myself and these other

people out of the room how can is it a

practice is it like going to the gym

some people just seem to have it you

know childhood trauma seems to play into

that as well because some people just

have a pessimistic attitude to things

and they worry and panic but that is

kind of the practice right like what

they have been through they have been in

rooms that were on fire before different

kinds of fire but this isn't a new

situation to them right and that is one

of the things also that we can say to

ourselves when we're going through [ __ ]

right whether it's this pandemic or it's

this downturn in your business or it's

this you know employee who stole from

you or whatever you go

this is practice this is reps right like

I am going to emerge out of the other

side of this

a person who has been through things

like this

and if you haven't before if this is the

first time yeah maybe you won't handle

it great but you will you can decide to

be the person who has learned

from that process

I guess the danger is I go through it

once and it's so horrific that I avoid

all circumstances or environments where

I might ever go through such a thing

again yes so you have emerged weaker and

more fragile for what's for what you've

gone through which is probably not the

way to do it you know

um I've said this to people it's like

hey we just lived through this massive

historical event together

we're here like we made it you know it's

not to say anything about the people who

didn't make it what I mean is like we

got through it if you had asked

that person in March 2020 if they could

get through three years of a pandemic

millions of people died where everything

was shut down where there was political

unrest and supply chain and logistic

Logistics crises and everyone had to

work from home and you know down the

list of all that stuff even just half of

it they would have said like so I lost

everything right like you know like it

destroyed me right I can't I don't have

what it takes to get through that but

you did because you didn't get through

all of it at once it was one thing after

another and you adjusted and you adapted

and you got stronger as you went and you

just realize

as you go through things

exactly what Seneca says like the person

who hasn't been tested doesn't know but

when you have been tested when you have

gone through things you can take from

that a sense of your capacities your

capabilities which are almost always

greater than you think they are

and so

it's just a way to go through life you

know you don't want it to be that way

you would prefer that it didn't happen

that way that the things went the way

they were supposed to go but they didn't

and now they are the way that they are

and now I have to call this person into

my office and let them go you know now I

have to

suddenly raise X millions of dollars to

keep the business going if we're going

to have any hope of surviving and I've

got 30 days to do it right like

the situation is the situation and what

is it going to teach me how am I going

to grow from how am I going to be better

for it

I was watching a video you made about

um swistoic questions that are really

important to ask ourselves

I guess to keep us on track to some

degree

um

what kind of questions do you find

yourself frequently asking yourself to

help keep yourself on track

yeah I mean the big one that I asked

myself the most as a parent is I just go

does this matter

like why why does this thing matter like

is this thing that I'm about to argue

with them or force them to do or feel

insecure about

does it actually matter right and

the answer is almost always no it

doesn't matter it's made up

[Music]

five more minutes is fine right in the

big scheme of things I won't care about

this and so I try to ask myself

questions that give me perspective that

take me out of whatever my immediate

impulse is or insecurity is or worry is

or argument is and I try to get

perspective and I think that's what

great questions do is they give you

prospective different way of seeing

things

that you can then hopefully act on

what did the stock say about like

relationships and romantic relationships

and love

I mean

what they say about them

to me is secondary to the fact that they

were also in them right like you know

it's one thing to be a philosopher and

then another to get married to a person

who you now live with

um who does things that drive you crazy

and you do things that drive them crazy

and you have resentments and you have

insecurities and you have compromises

that you have to make right

um I remember my wife said to me one

time this is a great question or a great

way of thinking about it I said I was

like it's you're I said she was

frustrating me

and she's kicked back a very stoic idea

she said um

uh a person she said I can't frustrate

you

she was basically saying like we're

responsible for our own emotions like

she's doing what she's doing and I am

feeling the frustration I can't make

that her fault right and I think about

that often right like uh she weaponized

terrorism against you yes all the time

her joke is um one of us is a stoic and

the other writes about stoicism

she's much more naturally these things

than I am I would say but you know it's

the idea that

how you

make it work in not in theory not in

your books is uh

it's the whole the whole business you

know like I think every person who's

ever been married or in a relationship

you know you get yourself in these

situations where you've decided that

being right is more important than being

happy or than getting along or sounds

like Twitter moving on yeah right yeah

you're just like what are you doing you

know you're putting this thing over the

relationship

um Twitter is its own set of

philosophical issues I just I you just

watch people

voluntarily seek out conflict and things

to be upset about like if they didn't

see the tweet it wouldn't bother them

yeah but they they picked it up they're

supposed to be

having dinner with someone they care

about they're supposed to be working

supposed to be playing with their kids

but instead they took up the phone and

they scrolled through and the phone

which knows the things that outrage you

or the ones that get the most engagement

magically serves up the outrage and then

you are outraged and you cannot go back

to what you were doing until you let

this person know

this person you've never met they are

wrong and you are right you know and

that is the opposite of philosophy

happiness the good life

um somehow I said he deleted it from his

phone for this very reason last year he

doesn't tweet anymore it's not involved

in Twitter because he said when I look

at the relationship I had with this

device it was just causing me

unhappiness he says every bad thing

every professional crisis I've had

started with Twitter

and have you ever once gone on it or any

of the apps

whether you spent five seconds or

50 minutes and thought that was a great

use of my time I'm really glad I did

that you know you always feel a little

guilty after you go oh that went back

faster than I thought

um and again I'm not saying that there's

not a place for these things that they

don't do some good I mean maybe someone

is watching a clip of this thing

literally right in this instance and

that's better than you know us trying to

sit here and Pander to one side or

incite the other there's definitely

people some people do it better than

other people or worse than other people

but

for the most part

how do you create distance and

boundaries

that separate you from these things so

yeah I don't have any of them on my

phone either and I don't know the

password to the Daily stoic or my

personal Twitter account so if there's

something I need to say I can talk to

someone who works for me and make sure

that gets out and then maybe I can ask

you know hey how did it go but for the

most part

um

I have enough inputs

you know what I mean I have enough

inputs I don't need more I don't need

more random people

uh

this is this is the most important space

that you have you know and how

protective of it are you

and

cultivating a Stillness or a space a

distance from that to me is like the

most important thing

you've read so much

you write so much you have the the

wisdom of a of someone who is who has

lived many many lives

that's what reading is by the way you

know what I mean reading is is maybe the

only way

that you can live multiple lives

like you think about

the millions of people who have done

crazy things groundbreaking things

terrible things

and you think of all that wisdom it's

all there in books and you know it's ten

dollars sometimes it's a dollar isn't it

funny how similar the wisdom is though

yeah I think the more you read that you

you come up with some sort of themes it

boils down eastern and western

philosophy kind of like a horseshoe you

know they come come together towards the

the ends but what are those themes

what are the themes of living a good

life that I must know first would be

let's say if you focus on what's in your

control I think it's up to you okay what

does that mean in practice in in

day-to-day life so someone cuts me off

in traffic yeah uh somebody you don't

somebody doesn't like something that you

did uh the weather you know how much of

your energy are you spending emoting

about complaining about worrying about

things that are not up to you and what

do the is there any particular examples

from stoicism where

well epic fetus is like that's our first

job in life separate things into two

categories is this up to me or is this

not up to me and it's a resource

allocation issue right like if you are

focused in your energy even half of it

on stuff that's not up to you that's

half your energy that's not being

focused on the stuff you can

make a difference on it's like that'd be

like putting 50 of

the the power of your car on the wheels

that aren't touching the ground you know

like you want to put it where it's going

to get traction that's the a key thing

in life is this up to you or not

number two uh there's something magical

about water and there's something

magical about long walks

this is where

find a lot of Peace find a lot of

inspiration find a lot of calmness and

Stillness like

I'm not saying that taking a walk will

solve all of your problems I'm just

saying that there's very few problems

that are made worse by taking a walk

same goes for

jumping in the swimming pool or the

ocean yeah what is it about those two

things that you believe I mean look I

think we evolved traveling very long

distances I mean some of the oldest

evidence of human beings in America are

a set of footprints of a mother carrying

and setting down carrying and setting

down a child 20 000 years ago in white

sand what is now White Sands New Mexico

like that's just what we've been doing

for as long as there are food people

and there's something about the rhythm

of it the movement of it

that

slows us down forces us to think makes

us very present

it's just magic and I think there's a

reason that every

religious tradition or

zen garden has a water fountain or

something you know there's just

something about sound of water

it's so true all of my

best ideas either come usually in the

gym or in the shower yeah I mean I don't

do a lot of walking because I got it but

in the gym in the shower I seem to get

my Epiphany moments yes taking a break

from what you're doing to go do one of

those things often unlocks a lot of

stuff

okay and you have that as a ritual every

day every day every single day yeah yeah

try to take a walk every day what else

are sort of rituals in your life the

daily rituals so I would add as a third

one as a ritual I'd be I'd say like do

something hard every day like do

something physically difficult every day

the art of challenging oneself and

pushing those limits and boundaries that

is a

a central practice and skill

that will help you whatever life has in

store for you and is that is that the

third one on this list yeah the third

okay I love that one so do something

difficult every day and that ranges from

as small as

not eating the cheeseburger to as big as

running a marathon yeah I mean not

eating a cheeseburger that's not I

wouldn't put that I I wouldn't go hey

like I really challenged myself today I

didn't eat garbage I would say it's like

here's the positive thing that I did

right like I lifted I lifted heavy rocks

you know I went for I did some sprinting

I went for a bike ride you know I uh

I went for a run I took a spin class you

know whatever it is the walk doesn't

count the walk is for the mental health

yeah you got to do something for the

physical health okay so four I think we

have to put something here about

like we are made for each other right

the the the idea of uh meaning comes

from servicing or contributing to the

common good

Marcus realist talks about the common

good maybe 40 50 times in meditations

um you know he says like we're put here

for other people

um

our job is to is to help others to you

know leave this place better than you've

like leave this place better than you

found it

to me that's the meaning of life right

there

so what is the positive contribution

what is the Legacy you're leaving not

how much money did you make you know

what records did you break but what is

the What is the

contribution you are making to the

collective that's

meaning and purpose and

quite frankly your obligation as a human

being

service

and then the fifth one the fifth one is

is

why don't you just pause there and I

forgot to ask you for an example and the

third one from stoicism of doing

something hard yeah like a I mean the

Greeks trained in wrestling the gymnasia

was the central part of the Roman life

you know you'd go and you you'd train

you know

um

what

were they aiming at when they were

training what were the means a strong

mind and a strong body like to not be

flabby and lazy and uh not to fight each

other or anything but no but I mean

there's something about Combat Sports

you know that I think is is very Primal

and probably good for you

um you know just something about

the challenge of

of of pushing oneself not living this

sort of sedentary lifestyle I think

that's you know whether you're talking

about Zen Buddhists practicing martial

arts or are you talking about the Romans

you know

uh uh practicing wrestling I think the

philosophical tradition is it's it's

wrong to think of

philosophers as soft

I always wonder if there's something

innate in human beings that we we're

designed to need struggle like we're

designed to because if you think about

we're in a big building here and with

all these all this stuff that humans

came up with and the cameras that they

they our ancestors just struggled

forward

to create all this stuff so is it

conceivable that they left something in

me that says you two shall struggle

forward yeah you're you are an error to

people who crossed oceans

fought in Wars braved the elements

you know lived through poverty and

depressions

[Music]

sacrificed struggled you know

they did all that and you have that in

you you know you have that in you we all

do and here we are ordering candies

Wi-Fi robot

um and and going ah the air conditioning

isn't at the exact temperature

and number five number five across all

religious and

philosophical traditions there is some

version of the practice of Memento Mori

remember you are mortal that life is

short

talk about

top of the list of things that you don't

control right uh is death and the

acceptance and the submission to that

fact the awareness the urgency the

perspective that that gives you is one

of the most

essential philosophical practices there

is like why do we procrastinate why do

we not prioritize our health why do we

not do the stuff that we know we should

do

it's because we think we have forever

you know we think we're Invincible

um and it's only you know in light of a

pandemic

a call from the doctor you know a loved

one suddenly going that we get these

brief moments of clarity it goes oh wait

[ __ ] no you can go at any moment

[Music]

um

Mark's realist is you could leave life

right now let that determine what you do

and say and think

now if you sang that in a time where

he buried six children six children

that's how

deadly and unforgiving the ancient world

was and he was even then having to

remind himself hey

don't procrastinate don't think you have

forever you know don't take life for

granted and here you know when the

average lifespan is so much longer like

inconceivably long compared to the

ancients

where you know you might never see

someone die in your whole life until you

are in a hospital bed you know we have

we live in even more of a bubble you

know we are even more sheltered we are

even more detached from

the reality of uh

of our mortality as they say death is

the only prophecy that never fails like

people think about like well what would

I do if I found out

that I had cancer like if you got a

terminal diagnosis from a doctorate but

what changes would I make

but the reality is you do have a

terminal diagnosis like the second you

were born the doctor knew with a hundred

percent certainty that you would die

you just didn't know when you know it

could be

eight years from now could be eight

decades from now we don't know

but to live in ignorance

or in rejection of that fact is to

set yourself up I think

more often than not to waste your life

and so some practice

of

hey

time is ticking by now in this very

moment how am I spending it

there's a sound timer

oh yeah yeah that's beautiful it sounds

to remind me of that very very fate of

all these things Ryan what is the what

is the stoic wisdom that you continually

struggle with the most

um

you know I think people think that

stoicism is about the suppression of

emotion that's what the word stoic means

to people right emotionless robotic

superhuman Etc I don't think that's it

at all

um I don't think that's possible

if you're stuffing the emotions down if

you're pretending they don't exist

they do exist and they will eventually

reveal themselves you've just

deferred it maybe with some interest

attached right so

for me like when I'm feeling something

when I'm having big feelings as we say

to my kids you're having big feelings

well why are you having those feelings

what is the cause of those feelings what

does your body feel like and the the

practice of going I'm feeling this

I'm feeling this because

I'm feeling as a result of that an

inclination to do

and then go but is that a good idea you

know is that what I want to do like I've

never lost my temper and then afterwards

been like I'm so glad I did that you

know I'm I always regret it always right

I've never forced my kids to do

something out of frustration and then

been like yeah that was definitely the

right call you know afterwards I'm like

we had so much more time than I was

under the impression we did you know

what I mean it's like like getting this

big fight to leave the house and then we

get there and then we're like waiting in

the car five minutes to go in you know

or whatever right like uh or you're so

stressed about missing the flight and

then you you get there or you don't get

there and neither one of those things

it's like a matter of life and death

right so I think for me seeing stoicism

as the practice of understanding the

emotion

processing the emotion

and then not being

a slave to that emotion is the practice

of stoicism

that I think I struggle with but I think

when you read the private thoughts of

the stoics

you see that they were also struggling

with

you know

um

people are frustrating

things are annoying you know things go

sideways but then how you deal with that

that's what that's what matters

and that's the control you have yeah

and it is a practice isn't it because we

all get frustrated with things I get

frustrated with so many things yeah

because you have high standards you have

expectations

wanting things to be a certain way

needing them to be a certain way that's

like the root of so much of the tension

or problems that we

we have and the question I ask is why

why do I need them to be a certain way

yeah you don't

you go I need everything to be a certain

way or I won't be able to do what I do

and then you're like wait how fragile am

I that I can't

I can't adjust I can't adapt you know

what I mean like you it's because you

can want it or request it or you think

you should have it that's what sets you

up but epic Jesus thing is he says like

I don't want things to be a certain way

want them to be the way that they are

that is the path to peace

I think about it's like hey

like if I wake up and I go I need the

weather to be a certain way today well

then there's a pretty big chance

that I'm not gonna be happy

I was talking to my friend his name

Shaka Smarties the head basketball coach

at Marquette he lived in Texas he was

the head coach at Texas and um

he uh he moved to Marquette where it's

colder and I said what's it what's the

weather shift like I said something like

you know are you are you more of a hot

weather guy or a cold weather guy you

know and um he goes I'm a dress for the

weather guy

and I was like that is stoicism right

there dress for the weather you know

like I don't care what it is I'm good

I'm good either way yeah I'll figure it

out

I love that

and the conflict I have is

the stoics must have understood the

importance of detail and small things

sure so yes you know that's why yeah but

at the same time they also understand

how that can quite easily rob you of

that Obsession to detail yeah or like

routine is important right this is the

order I like to do things this is when

I'm at my best

but what if that routine becomes

almost

a religion

which becomes almost a kind of fragility

you know that's the problem [ __ ] [ __ ]

what am I gonna do I need I need my

special socks you know or whatever

um I can't no I need 10 minutes before

and you're like

okay you know you're not defusing a

nuclear bomb here like

it's gonna be fine

two things can be true at the same time

yeah it's better well the stoic say um

there's

there's such a thing as preferred

indifference

so the basically the stocks are like if

it's in your control

great it's not under control it's not

worth thinking about

but they said they're still

some things

it's better to have than not have right

like like it's better to be rich than

poor it's better for it to be you know

nice weather not nice weather right and

so the idea is you're going to be fine

regardless

right so if you can you can go I am good

I'm a dress for the weather guy I can

thrive in any and all situations right

that's

the first thing that has to be true and

then the second thing is to be true

which can be true is but if you ask me

what I want here this here's the

circumstances or situation that if it's

in my power that's what I'm going to

choose I don't need it I can do great in

any in all situations but

if you ask me do I want it to be cold in

here or warm in here I'm going to tell

you the temperature that I like because

I know that if it gets too hot and I

start to feel warm and then I get

distracted you know like you can you can

know what it's nice to have but not need

it

of all the of all the things that you

know you've read about in um stoic

philosophy and wisdom

fewer

lying on your deathbed and you had the

entirety of the world as the audience oh

and you could just say one thing that

you believed would be as of most benefit

to that audience

to relieve them of their suffering the

most to you know to leave them with one

last statement from Ryan holiday drawn

from his readings of

stoic wisdom and philosophy oh

what might be the Insight the last daily

stoic

what would I say it's a short last

breath

we know Marcus aurelius's sort of Last

Words his last words in in meditations

are about sort of

hey man this is the play it only got

three acts curtains coming down did you

do a good job you started talking to

himself like that it's pretty beautiful

and then

in real life he's probably dying of the

plague

uh

he

his friends are all around him and

they're weeping and crying

and he goes

what are you crying about like

don't think about me so think about your

you think about your life

go try to

you know

do what you can with the time that you

have left

and

maybe I'd say something like that like

hey the whole

the one

the one benefit of people dying

is the one way that they

can go on living after they die

one way they can improve us and help us

after they're gone is is the reminder of

the fact that they're not here which

will be true for you at some point and

that's one of the things that the loss

of people that we love can do for us

it's like hey none of us get forever

the song ends at some point

and so what did you um

what did you do

with the time that you've got

and the fact that you get tomorrow and I

don't

is a gift that you should not take for

granted

into your kids

oh

I think I would just I think I'd just

say

you know what I try to just say all the

time which is like

I love you I'm proud of you

and you're you're good you know what I

mean I think I think it's it's really

easy

especially in today's world

for everything to feel like conditional

you know that

you gotta earn it and there are things

you have to earn in life you know but

A Parent's Love A sense of worth and

sort of dignity uh value that's that's

that's in an innately

intrinsically

uh

given thing at Birth right and so I

don't know I meant I might just take one

one extra shot at that

if this um if you want to be successful

at that point when you're laying there

on your deathbed yeah if you were

answered to that question that

they uh positive markets Marcus's play

my godson's called Marcus actually

because of Marcus

um

but if you had lived a successful life

at that point what would that mean for

you

yeah

um I mean I feel I feel lucky

in that I don't wake up and think

there's all this stuff that I have to do

do you know what I mean like I I'm not

saying like uh

I've done everything that I want to do

but I'm saying like

with the time that I have had

I have I have

I feel like I've checked most of the

boxes

of

you know reaching the potential that I

have paying back

debts or gifts that I was given

um you know mastered things uh made a

positive contributions like I I I'm I

feel I'm good do you know what I mean

and so I wake up with this sense of

living

in the bonus that it's all extra

which is nice because

I think early on in my life I felt a lot

of pressure

and I was

demanded or asked a lot of myself

and the ability to be like I did it

um and now every extra minute or day

that I get is

is extra that's like that's where you

want to get

I think

ladies and gentlemen I'm interrupting

this broadcast with a very special

announcement two years ago I started

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meeting all of the incredible people

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business and life and from this I've

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guests that I've sat here and

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