so New Year's resolutions around the

corner I think 9% of resolutions stick

what advice have you got for me okay so

let's say I wanted to lose weight the

first thing is realizing that all of our

lives are about habits not goals the

second aspect of this is one of the most

effective strategies to brainwash

yourself to form these new habits and

that is Chase Hughes is a former

military veteran turned world-renowned

expert in behavioral analysis and human

influence he has trained Secret Service

agents Navy SEAL leaders CEOs and

government officials to master

communication behavioral detection and

persuasion you can look at three factors

every single time to determine why

someone was successful or why they

failed the first is self-mastery where

we look at confidence body language

discipline and authority and we know

that people are hyper responsive to

Authority but how do we establish

Authority ourselves Authority is made up

of five things and that's number two is

their level of observation and there's

five C's that we talk about in Behavior

profiling should we get into but my

favorite example and one of the fastest

ways to get a read on another human

being is how often they're BL bling if I

start seeing an increase in someone's

blink rate I know I need to change the

subject right away interesting and the

third their level of communication and

if you want to learn how to start a

conversation or continue one this is for

you it comes down to understanding the

type of person that you are in front of

now segregate people into six groups and

that'll influence the best way to talk

to those people so we can get into if

you want please okay number one what

about how to win an argument what are

the things I should definitely not do so

the big mistake most people make is

don't do that

this has always blown my mind a little

bit 53% of you that listen to the show

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your feedback we'll find the guest that

you want me to speak to and we'll

continue to do what we do thank you so

much Chase Hughes who are you and what

is your mission I'm a behavior guy

Behavior expert and

I think I've just set out to teach

people that there is an entire world

that other people can't really see don't

have access to and I think for the last

10,000 years of recorded history you can

look at any event or any leader of any

country and everything that dictates the

outcomes of situations comes down to

human factors every time no matter if

there's economic turmoil there's people

getting pissed off about an economy

there's AI or technology innovations

that are happening it everything comes

down to human interactions and whether

or not you can manage yourself you're a

good leader who the good leaders are and

who can persuade the people to feel a

certain way and who'd you do it for I

think I'd do it for people that have

gone through a period in their life

realizing that there's an invisible

advantage that some other people have

the people that got

successful maybe have some kind of

advantage that they're not able to to

tangibly see and I think showing them

that this is one of the biggest lovers

that you could ever pull in your life is

the most rewarding and fascinating thing

to see someone go through this

transition to realize that this human

behavior stuff dictates outcomes in life

when you say this you're referring to

human behavior and is human behavior is

it like a set of tactics is it like a

form of psychology what is what is this

when you say the word this when I say

human behavior I mean that when a person

becomes successful or they become a

failure you can look at three factors

every single time to determine why

someone was successful or why they

failed that is their level of

self-mastery their level of observation

like can they read the room can they

read the person that they're actually

talking to and their level of

communication can they speak

influentially can they talk

about outcomes in a way that inspire

people and motivate people and can they

communicate in a persuasive way that

moves people and who exactly have you

worked with lots of government agencies

uh notably I've worked with intelligence

agencies I've worked with the

psychological operations Department the

US Army which is the Special Operations

Command I've trained a lot of the US

Navy leaders nowadays

and a lot of civilians are my main base

of clients right now what do

intelligence what do you do for

intelligence agents so when we talk to

intelligence agents the number one thing

that we train them in is recognizing

human behavior and we also teach

interrogation and we tend to teach like

if I'm doing an interrogation it's kind

of the same as if I'm uh an intelligence

officer somewhere trying to talk

somebody into spying on their own

country for us both of those things are

about talking someone into doing

something that's not really in their

best interest so when it comes down to

that that's really where

we get to the point the rubber meets the

road can you talk someone into doing

something that they a normally wouldn't

do which is maybe sales because they

normally they wouldn't have otherwise

done that or B in the interrogation

world can I talk you into something that

you wouldn't want to do because it's not

your best interest like confessing to a

crime or providing intelligence or

something like that and that's where we

really do a lot of the training for

police and government next to me there's

this massive book called The behavior

Ops manual it's probably the biggest

book I've ever seen um what is the

wealth of experience that have fed into

this body of work that book right there

is my entire life so probably 30 to

40,000 hours of of research on this

stuff every technique that I've ever

learned or taught every method that

we've ever used for interrogations or

persuasion or influence all that stuff

is inside of the behavior Ops manual and

I wrote that book and we can get into

that if you want to right now I received

a brain diagnosis where I thought I was

going to lose my brain and I was

desperate I'm just wondering how's my

family going to feed itself so I wanted

to put every single piece of knowledge

that I've ever created or I've ever come

up with for any government agent

everything all on the table and that's

what this book was it's just the

culmination of everything and you served

in the military yourself I did for 20

years what is the

most common thing that people come to

your work for like if you were to

encapsulate it into like a sentence what

they're searching for in their own

personal lives it would be a person

that is lacking some degree of control

in some aspect of their

life and it's typically they think they

need skills most of my clients come to

me saying I want the technique I want

the skill teach me the the recipe to do

X Y and Z what do I say on the phone

give me a new sales script so I have

this model called the acss model that I

trained to my entire staff and that acss

model stands for Authority

Comfort social skills and then

skills 90% of people say they need more

skills but what they need is Authority

or comfort and they can't be comfortable

in a

conversation so I could give you like I

would talk to these clients and I would

say I could spend $10 million write the

best persuasion script for whatever your

ideal outcome is hand you this thing on

a silver platter and if you're not

comfortable in that conversation you're

not going to be successful so I could

give it to somebody with social anxiety

and have them go read this out loud it's

not Harry Potter we're not reading

spells it's not a spell so a lot of

people's problems come from Comfort a

lack of being able to be comfortable in

in a conversation and the level of

authority that they might have and I

don't mean hierarchical Authority I just

mean personal Authority but they don't

know it they think it's I need more

social skills I need to learn small talk

or I need this little technique so every

time the one thing I tell every client

is if I give you a flight checklist

right now for a a small plane Cessna

172 are you a pilot no having this

little checklist of what to do does not

give you the skill so a lot of that so

much of that comes from comfort and the

problem that a lot of people have is

they're competing with other people on

height on looks on social status money

hierarchy confidence all this other

stuff the number one thing you need to

compare yourself with other people on is

Comfort that's it is can I be more

comfortable than the other person in in

this conversation because our brains are

naturally wired to compete we can't turn

competition off but we can change what

they're focused on and if they're

focused on Comfort we win a lot more

conversations Comfort yeah how does that

manifest is that just like being like

physically comfortable what is that yeah

it would be physical comfort so one of

the challenges I give to people is for

your first week all the only thing I

want you to focus on I'm not going to

give you the this long list to go look

into your phone and have to read it

before every meeting the one thing I

want you to focus on this week is can

you move

slower than the other people in the room

that's it just adjusting the speed limit

on your body so if you were standing in

a swimming pool how fast would your arms

and legs move if you were underwater and

make that the speed limit for this

entire week that's all I want you to

focus on and that makes so many changes

in people's mind because we change our

bodies and we change how our emotions

are feeling and there's one thing that

fear does it speeds our body up so if

you see someone doing these rapid jerky

movements you're you're seeing mostly

fear or stress in their

body so get more comfortable in an

interaction conversation even if it's on

the phone or in

person yeah so on the phone it would be

speaking at a normal composed Pace okay

and then so step two is composure can I

get you into a place where you have some

composure and the left and right side of

composure we have collapse and we have

posturing so we I have a person that

makes themselves small so other people

can be comfortable or I make myself big

so other people can get away from me and

we have we see that with every aspect of

our lives like when I first started my

business or when I first got out of the

military these people called me for a

keynote so this guy calls me and he's

like what's your hourly rate and I said

6K uh and I said that's including travel

and all that and the only thing he did

he didn't say anything on the phone he

just

goes that's it he just made that noise

and right away I said oh yeah but we

could do a discount I could probably do

like 5K we could even take some off 50%

I could even take 75% since you're here

here and I have to do this it just made

up excuses and I almost got to the point

where I was like let me pay you I'll

give you some money if you come let me

speak on stage for you

and that's collapse so that's I'm in

collapse in some areas of my life I

might posture in some areas of my life

and our goal is to get out of that swing

but the problem most people have if I'm

living in collapse the solution looks

like

posturing and we see this in like guys

that learn pickup like I'm going to

learn how to posture because it's the

opposite of what I'm doing it's not the

center where I need to be and what is

the center that's that's composure that

would be composure and I would say

composure is a combination of the things

that make up authority and authority is

made up of five things and that's

confidence discipline leadership

gratitude and enjoyment so I have an

Authority inventory this is day one the

first thing that I give to intelligence

people or I've got a guy that owns a car

dealership whoever the client is and

it's the authority assessment it

assesses you on those things and

wherever your lowest point is that's

what's keeping you from being successful

in most conversations when you need to

persuade somebody and it pinpoints it

very quickly and if I could go into this

a little further um the way that we live

our lives off camera I'm sure you would

agree you just had Vanessa van Edwards

on uh it it bleeds out in our body

language it bleeds out in not just body

language but how we breathe how we talk

how we come across so even if I read

that article on LinkedIn of 19 ways to

look more confident and it says well

have better posture sit up straighter

shake hands make better eye contact I

did all of that and I look really

presentable but back home I've got a 8ot

pile of laundry sitting in the bedroom

my bed's nasty I've got dishes all piled

up in the sink there's a part of our

brain that's somehow dedicated to

reminding us I'm faking it right now and

that comes across so whether we're doing

it consciously or uncons consciously

we're manufacturing gut feelings in

other

people so our job is to manufacture

better gut feelings and the five most

common ways that those bleed out in our

everyday life is how we manage five

areas of our life and that is our

environment like do I take care of my

environment my uh time

appearance my social life and my

financial life because those are the

those are the five things we worry about

in the back of our head that start

bleeding out these gut feelings because

we've all had a conversation where

everything on the surface looked great

but afterwards we were like something

was off I don't know what it was but

something just didn't feel right about

that guy and we've all had that little

experience

and getting a hold of your those five

qualities that make up Authority are the

fastest way to get success in your life

and just drastically start changing your

life so it's really that the

controllable element it's our

environment our time our appearance our

social life and our finances that's the

like controllable Foundation to all

these other things um that we talked

about yeah so that would be the the

bottom Foundation of that little pyramid

and the far left side of that triangle

would be confidence discipline

leadership gratitude and enjoyment yeah

and those elements alone produce

feelings in other people that make them

see an authority figure and you've heard

of the milgrim

experiment oh gosh it reminds me of

something I read when I was 16 in

Psychology class in a textbook probably

did that was the one where they got

people to shock each other yeah please

explain all right let me give you a

quick recap it's Yale University I think

it's

1962 and Yale runs an ad in the paper

says come help us with this study on

learning and we'll give you 20 bucks or

lunch voucher or something like that so

all these volunteers come out and

there's a tall guy in a lab coat and a

official clipboard there and there's one

other volunteer and you draw straws one

of you is the teacher one of you is the

learner so you're led into this room you

watch this learner guy get strapped up

he's on this table getting strapped up

to this electric shock machine and every

time he gets a question on this quiz

wrong you've got to shock him you have

to hit the button and every Progressive

question you increase the voltage on

this machine that goes all the way up on

the far right to xXx danger severe shock

is what it says on

there but the whole time you're shocking

him the you can hear the guy screaming

on the other side of the wall he's

screaming and Midway through the process

the guy's banging on the wall he's like

I have a heart condition I don't want to

do this anymore I'm out I quit I don't

want to do the experiment and 90% of

these people will turn around to the guy

in the lab coat and the guy in the lab

coat is like please continue it's

important that you continue the

experiment so they keep going and going

and almost to the end no more

response it's just silence the guy

doesn't even respond to questions and

the guy in the lab coat says any

non-answer has to be

treated as if it were an incorrect

answer please continue and they keep

going and going and going and you you

can watch some some of these are on

video and you just watch this their

faces toward the

end these psychiatrists at the beginning

of this predicted less than 1% would go

all the

way 67% of people will go all the way

and 250 volts is enough to kill you 100%

went up to 250 the presence of novelty

and Authority did

everything it made a person commit

murder and that's I would say I would

argue that's more difficult than selling

someone a

car and that Authority comes in that

particular example came from going to

the university the lab coat Etc but how

do we establish Authority ourselves is

it going back to the things you said

there about environment appearance Etc

finances yeah is there like are are

there physical expressions of that

Authority in a day-to-day basis there

are slowness of movement is one of the

most common so we have slowness of

movement so the right side of that

Authority triangle has five letters on

it and that stands for movement

appearance confidence connection and

intent is our intent visible that

outward sign of authority is what a lot

of people tend to look for

what does Authority look like but what

we're really doing is I want to look up

the symptoms of authority not the cause

because we all these LinkedIn articles

YouTube videos that are saying how to

have more confidence how to do x y and z

are how to have the symptoms instead of

the cause of authority so people with

authority tend to sit up straight but

they don't sit up straight because they

read an article they sit up straight

because they see the world a certain way

and that's so much of a difference

between changing my world view versus

changing my posture that's very

different outcomes and we're still

generating those gut feelings in people

interesting have you worked with many

people that come to you and they've got

a clear Authority problem is there a

particular example you can think of

where you were able to help someone turn

their life around many hundreds give me

your favorite example my favorite

example was a big CEO he's in Los

Angeles

and he ask me for skills he starts off I

need I need the flight checklist I don't

need to learn to fly I just need the

checklist uh but it takes me a while to

kind of walk people back and say like

let's get to the root of this because

you can't just openly say you have an

authority and and comfort

problem

and his employees

would like openly make fun of him in

board meetings and stuff like that and

he didn't like it and it it his company

was going downhill so fast and I took

him through this process of gaining

let's let's build up your confidence

discipline leadership gratitude and

enjoyment all of those things and let's

find where your lowest point is of those

five if I could just find your lowest

point on that five list then I know the

highest leverage thing that I can do so

if the highest leverage that he can do

would be confidence that's the number

one thing I'm going to start working on

and the moment we took him through that

process say it was only a couple of

months and we used a lot of hypnosis we

used a lot of um I literally used

brainwashing techniques to help him so

it's the same techniques and you know

what uh cognitive behavioral therapy was

also a a form of brainwashing back in

the day and aversion therapy um but

within just a few months he went from

around I think 6 to 800k per month to

like 4 million a month all of his

employees were on board he he did he had

this huge shift the problem comes when

you're when you're a coach and you make

someone's life change that fast they

have to have an

excuse they can't go back to the office

and like they're different right so they

have to say some this thing happened to

me I had this thing so that's the first

thing I work out with every client is

like you need you're going to have to go

back and tell them something happened

that changed your life because you have

to have a reason that you're going back

different so watching that

transformation is so so so rewarding and

incredible but the confidence is usually

what you have to change first with

people how'd you do that you change how

what's going on inside their head so

you've gone on stage before probably a

thousand or 2,000 people you were on TV

for a

while even after you've been

successful have you ever even heard a

tiny voice that said why am I here or

like do I deserve to be here yeah I mean

this is a prime example of that yeah

yeah or I'm faking it people are going

to find out I'm I'm faking it well you

feel like that when you're a podcaster

because you you didn't get any official

qualifications and then people started

listening and then there's they think

that you know what you're doing or you

so I think I can tell that as a

podcaster yeah so and they never go away

so the difference between a person who's

confident and a person who doesn't have

confidence is that they hear those

voices as truth

and I hear them or somebody with

confidence hears them as

fiction they're both listening to the

same thing so imagine like as a quick

story if I if you and I were going to

lunch I said Stephen I'm going to come

pick you up I pull up in front of your

house you jump in the passenger side

we're heading off and I'm listening to

an audio book about a nuclear bomb going

off but it's inside the audiobook

there's a fake news report

about a nuclear bomb going off let's say

it's a pretend BBC broadcast or

something that's going off that it's in

the audiobook we start

driving I'm relaxed I'm focused on the

road I'm enjoying what I'm doing your

heart rate's increased you're fearful

you're a migdala is firing off you're in

this horrible state of like oh my God

what H what's going to happen to my

family we're both hearing the exact same

broadcast we're listening to the same

speakers at the same time but I know

that I'm hearing fiction

and you are worried that it's truth I

don't mean to use you as as that example

but

it's that's the easiest way to to

describe it and then just fundamentally

changing how you hear that voice and

nine times I think 10 times out of 10

that voice was developed when you were

eight or nine what did that kid do and

this is what I would ask any of the

clients what did that kid do to make

friends or keep them so friends to feel

safe now we're in the safety like how

did I get to feel safe and what did I do

to earn rewards and for some people that

might be recognition for other kids who

had a bad start in life that might be

water or food might have been a reward

for those kids so the way that we keep

or earn friends the way that we get

rewards as a child and the way that we

feel what we have to do to feel safe

those develop as little apps in our

brain that run in the background of our

adult lives all the time and we

typically as a kid they're great they

might have kept us safe they might have

kept us alive they might have held us

inside of these Social Circles but I'm

going to be a dick to people so that

they don't get close to me or I'm going

to kiss up to authority figures like Mom

and Dad so I'll get some recognition and

praise and that becomes an app that we

carry into adulthood without knowing it

without our consent without our

awareness that little kid brings these

things into adulthood and they just

modify so I go from having to kiss up to

a narcissistic mother to I'm going to

I'm going to kiss the boss's ass every

single day and everybody knows me as the

office kiss ass so they just translate

from child to adult behavior and if I

can start understanding that then I can

start getting that person to understand

the fundamental way to change their life

and I make them put those phrases out in

the open to where it's so I want them to

be pissed off so I will make them get a

desktop wallpaper that says I don't

deserve money money is for other people

just just to make their brains see how

stupid it is on a regular basis and put

it on a motivational

poster and the second part of that

is I any anybody who's confident has a

generalized expectation of positive

outcomes not specific but things are

going to be fine things are going to be

fine so if I can do that you can

fundamentally change someone's life so

the final point of that which leads into

discipline is I need to get you to form

a relationship with your future

self because everything that goes into

on in our life has to do with our

mamalian brain this lower part of our

brain

here and it doesn't speak English

there's no affirmation that's going to

penetrate that barrier there's no like

I'm going to read a quote on a wall or a

PowerPoint slide that's going to

fundamentally change Behavior you have

to change the animal the Mamon part of

the brain so the question I ask

everybody that I'm training is how would

I teach it to a

dog how would I how would I show my

goals if I'm setting goals for next year

how would I show that to a dog cuz I

have to get it down to a mammal so the

fastest way to do that is through Visual

means so I have all of my clients

download this app I can't remember the

name of it there's probably a hundred

but it makes you look like

95 yeah and you're just covered in

wrinkles it makes a lot of your hair

kind of go away and I make them print it

out and put it everywhere just for a

couple of weeks and now we start

developing a mental mamalian in

relationship with our future self which

changes how I eat changes how I spend

money it changes maybe what time I go to

bed how much alcohol I drink and mostly

uh where I'm getting my dopamine from if

I draw a map of everywhere I'm getting

my dopamine from and more than 50% of it

is on alcohol or porn or you know all of

these things that I don't want that's

you have to be very very honest with

yourself at that point of where do I

need to get dopamine front of in my life

and successful people every single

successful person that I've ever met has

a good dopamine map so they they get

dopamine from good sources instead of

bad ones and is there a relationship

between discipline and confidence I

think so very much it's like if if you

and I were sitting in an airport

together let's say we're sitting in

Atlanta airport and I just asked you

with and you're not a behavior profiler

as far as I know but I said Stephen look

around and find somebody that's

disciplined it would take you 5 seconds

because we don't need to to profile

people that's a natural thing that you

picked up on it on purpose but we pick

up on it unconsciously all the time so

having that level of discipline elevates

our level of confidence automatically

because we know that other people are

going to pick up on it but we also know

I'm moving up and I'm probably more in

control of myself than the person that

I'm talking to or the people that I'm

I'm dealing with regularly so so how we

live off camera is coming through in our

confidence that's the exact thing that

we were talking about that environment

time appearance and if I can live off

camera the same

way that I want to be perceived by

everybody in my life my confidence

already starts to

grow and you said enjoyment as well was

one of the five yeah why is enjoyment

important I added it on there it it took

a while but I walked through every body

I've ever trained and if you look at

everyone who is a natural leader and has

that level of authority they are not

just partying in the moment but just in

calmly enjoying what is happening now so

maybe you could call it mindfulness but

I think in just the trait of enjoyment

and being in enjoyment is the most

magnetic human trait that there

is what do I need to know about

observation which is the second part of

your triangle to success or

failure observation being able to read a

room is it possible to be able to read a

room yeah how would I go about reading a

room okay so if if you're reading like a

public area yeah let's go back to the

airport maybe yeah if I'm in a public

area I really want to pay attention to

the slowest moving person in the room I

want to pay attention to who is more

confident than the other person and

that's typically going back to speed and

if I'm if I'm reading other people well

I'm also making a lot of eye contact

with them so that's also one of the

fastest ways to get a read on another

human being is how often they're

blinking and if a person is blinking

fast it's a sign of high stress if

they're blinking really slow it's a sign

of focus so it's not always relaxation

so if I talk to a psychopath and a

interrogation room or in a business

negotiation and they're very focused on

prey so we call that a prey

Focus because they're going to

manipulate somebody their blink rate

will almost be at zero if I talk to

somebody who's being deceptive their

blink rate can go up to like a 75 80

without us even knowing it so one of the

reasons that blink rate is so reliable

is that it's unconscious we don't

realize the shifts in blink rate and we

don't manually control it very well

and if all that I would ever need to

teach somebody you don't have to count

or know how many times per minute it's

going on is if I'm in a conversation I'm

going to start the conversation and say

is the blink rate normal does it look

fast does it look slow so what I'm

really looking for in human behavior are

changes changes so if I'm on stage and

if I'm let's say I'm doing a keynote and

across the room I'm making eye contact

with all these people and I start seeing

an increase in audience blink rate I I

know I need to change the subject or

change the topic right away so would you

be looking at one particular person no

so generally yeah so I would look at all

of these eyes and pretend like I'm

looking at one

human okay does that make sense getting

an average of the yeah so as I'm looking

around how many blinks do I see and I'm

going to pretend as if that was one

human eye okay so when you get a lower

blink rate people are paying more

attention yeah you're doing a great job

and you can I go to these pitch meetings

where these uh entrepreneurs will go up

and Pitch these Angel Investors and

stuff like that up in Washington and you

can measure who will pitch based on

blink rate you see a blink rate drop

that is the most interested person in

the room we do the same thing with jury

selection it's so reliable and you you

read these articles about like someone

breathing into their chest it takes a

while to get good at that with your

peripheral vision because I've taught it

to people and they would have spend a

conversation with someone staring at

their chest and especially if you're

talking to a woman it's a bad idea so

blink rate is incredibly reliable so to

recap that skill yeah I start a

conversation does it look pretty normal

is it pretty fast or kind of slow then

I'm going to look for changes and that's

all I'm looking for in a room of people

is what's

changing so 70 is deceptive and zero is

psychopath 70 is stress not always decep

okay and zero is psychopath basically

zero might be psychopath context is the

second letter C there's five C's that we

talk about in Behavior profiling so

change then context MH so now it like

somebody just crossed their arms and you

read the internet it says it's being

defensive withholding closed off see all

that stuff well what if it's freezing

cold yeah so now we have Contex so

interesting that actually happened in my

last conversation I um I try not to

close off my body when I'm doing this

cuz some sometimes my natural reaction

is to go like this and then sometimes

especially in here when it gets later

and we didn't have the fan in the heater

I would go like this yeah and what I'm

if like the I was thinking but this is

rude the rude to the guest but I looked

at my arms and I had these like massive

Goosebumps and I was like that's the

context yeah the context is I'm

freezing yeah but to the guest it would

look like I'm going like this yeah you

know so this is why body language is so

delicate I think is delicate and it's so

hard to for people to do peer-reviewed

research on it because there's a million

variables it's like saying well why

should Roger Federer win a tennis match

when he doesn't have any peer-reviewed

studies to back up what he's doing yeah

it's the same thing with body language

because like they're doing interrogation

research so they're saying that a

college kid who gets a lunch voucher and

walks in and pretends to to lie about a

duck is exactly the same as someone

who's been captured in combat sleep

deprived for a few days has a black hood

over their head and they're drugg into

an interrogation room and they're saying

those behaviors are identical then

there's the peer-reviewed research on

lying and not lying it's so you cannot

replicate human behavior that well so

and people treat it like it's a

pharmaceutical like I can put a Tylenol

in somebody and I can measure all these

responses and it doesn't really go into

aad spr sheet like that and there's a

lot of great research out there but I'd

say it's just so incredibly hard to

replicate everything in with perfection

like that so what was the first C first

C is change I want to look for a change

and then you want to look at context is

there a third C that would be clusters

clusters so then you read articles that

say

someone looks a certain way or does a

certain thing that might be deceptive

like the most common one I hear is

someone touches their nose so someone

touching their nose might be being de

cve if you're just seeing one

thing I would say that never almost

never means anything you want to look

for a cluster of behavior so they

started getting nervous which is a

change they're it's because I'm asking

about where they were on Wednesday night

there's the context and while they were

getting nervous they also started

protecting their genitals with their

hands and licking their lips which is a

hygienic gesture that we do so now I

have a change within the context that's

appropriate and there's a cluster of

Behavior after that I screen through

culture is there some part of this

person's culture or background uh that

makes them do that like I was with a

young person we were watching a

Pakistani person get inter interrogated

and you know how you you commonly see

that kind of headshake oh yeah in that

region of the world they said I was

shaking his head while he's saying yes

like now we get down to that sea this is

culture which rules out uh that Behavior

or gets rid of it and finally the most

the least important thing on that list

is the

checklist and by checklist I mean there

is a list of known behaviors that are

likely to be deception and if you're in

body language you deal in likelihood

that's all we deal in some people say

they're 100% sure on stuff and I'm

skeptical but we deal in likelihood so

we should always process in that so

someone licking their lips or moving a

certain way if it's in on a checklist

does not mean that it's deceptive MH cuz

what if they do it all the time then we

don't have a change does that make sense

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I was thinking

about things I used to do when I was

younger and there was just a period of

my life where for some bizarre reason I

used to go like this and I used to do it

all the time a tick it was almost like a

tick yeah you know what's really weird I

think this sounds like a really crazy

thing to say

but one of my best friends had like

curtains

like the haircut curtains okay and he

used to flick it and I almost like

vicariously picked up the like flicking

from him I'd go like that all the time

but I was just thinking if someone saw

me doing that they would perceive that

as some some form of behavior whereas it

was just this weird thing that lasted

for like two years when I was younger

and then went away yeah but did you do

it all the time I just did it I oh I

don't know I felt like I just did it

randomly but that that wouldn't be a

change okay yeah if I if I was meting

you yeah and

you were on the Dragon's Den for a while

still yeah and people pitch you yeah all

kinds of

ideas that just having somebody on the

show or just having those skills with

you you could see through a lot of those

people and whether or not they're being

honest about what they're pitching

they're confident about what they're

pitching and you could look at a show

like Shark Tank and I can look at I can

watch any episode of Shark Tank and look

who's blinking the least MH they're

they're going to be the first to make an

offer 99% of the time because they're

the most focused on what's going on

they're they're personally

invested so that's fascinating is that

just you could just look at one or two

things and predict stress or focus and

just being able to do that if you just

took that one thing away from this that

would be a

superpower because I sit here with

guests right and they talk about their

life stories and stuff and I often see

some patterns of Behavior yeah

specifically like closing up when you

ask someone something about their

childhood or a specific sensitive

subject in their life you tend to see

like self I call it like self- soothing

Behavior to some degree so it's

difficult and it's funny because we

we're all like amateur body language

experts now yeah because there's been a

lot of stuff online saying spot this did

they touch their nose Etc so it can also

be dangerous it can and it can give us

these like oh I saw this one thing I'm

never doing business with that guy yeah

and like he scratched his nose three

times while he was talking about that

well he's look in his briefcase he's got

allergy medication in there he's

scratching his nose the season just

changed it Springtime his nose is red

when he came in so he's been scratching

it for 30 minutes before he walked in

the door so now we we start to realize

I'm not seeing a change I'm seeing

something that was repetitive and

communication is the third one in the

Triangle to success or failure

communication so what I've got so far is

talking slow is higher authority yeah is

there anything else that if I want to be

a master Communicator I should be

thinking about

absolutely

oh when it comes to communication a

being a good Storyteller is great and

there's a million podcasts out there

that can teach somebody that but it

comes down to whether or not you can

speak to the person that you are in

front of MH and understanding what kind

of person that is and there's a few ways

that I identify I I segregate people

into six groups and that's through what

do they need from other people so what

kind of things do I need

socially and these are

significance

acceptance

approval intelligence pity and strength

or SL

power and in every conversation if you

ask somebody about themselves they're

going to come across

and reveal one of those things to you so

if I know that you are a significance

driven person and I'm selling you on how

smart of an idea this is and how

intelligent you are for making this

Choice I'm

communicating way opposite in what you

need to hear so the moment that I hear

you talk about yourself your

accomplishments what you like in life

what happened for you this week what's a

great memory that you have every

conversation you're going to hear this

stuff starting to get revealed so you

hear somebody Within These are

conversation or things that you could

hear in a conversation pretty quickly

you start talking to somebody and they

said yeah I'm actually the CEO of that

company I've got 490 people that work

for me and I'm probably going to be

making an exit sometime next year so you

hear that there's significance right uh

then you then you listen for approval is

this is when you hear people say well I

got to go up on stage tomorrow Tom but I

suck at public speaking I'm going to I'm

going to really bomb at it I'm just

really nervous trying to get you to say

no no you don't suck you're great you

did great last time you're going to rock

this you got this then you have the

acceptance people they'll always use the

terms like we us our and just team so

acceptance people are all about like I'm

a member of some kind of group and

that'll come across in their

communication so you ask a significance

person about a vacation and they say I

went down to Miami it was fantastic I

had a great time and I just got back

last night you ask an acceptance person

they'll say we went down there all of us

went to this thing and we did this so

you hear a lot of this language that

talks about groups and membership you

get into the intelligence side how often

do you hear people go yeah I actually

got my MBA from this person oh I did my

Master's thesis on that do you hear this

intelligence stuff come out of people

and the pity is you can identify a Pity

person pretty well and those are the

hardest people to communicate to and the

pity person always like if I want to

give you the ideal thing to say to each

one of these people the pity person

wants to hear I can't believe all the

stuff that you've been through and

you've got to this point because I don't

think many people would have pity wants

recognition of

suffering and finally we have the

strength and power person and this isn't

always Biff from Back to the Future

so it's can be somebody who's a leader

in a company they want but they want

control so significance is do I make a

difference strength and power is do I

have control over other people these are

the everybody from like the leader who

kind of forces his way into the top to

the guy with the ridiculous jacked up

pickup truck that has like the plastic

testicles hanging off of the back of it

and once you understand what

categorization someone fits into how

would you show up in a way that's

effective in communicating with them say

for example if I'm talking to a

significance person yeah do I

just and and I'm trying to close a deal

with them or something do I Pander to

their significance is that yeah so

there's a few other types that we teach

intelligence people to identify there's

the six ways we make decisions and then

six ways that we have values which is

our end goal that we want but I want to

speak in a way that says this decision

is going to increase your level of

significance and I want to compliment

them on their level of significance

right before I ask them for something so

I could say You Stephen um this is a

great podcast you've got millions of

subscribers and it's obvious you make a

difference in so many people's lives and

you are a significance person so that

would be effective uh for you because I

know that you want to make the biggest

difference that you can and I want to

speak in a way that a speaks to their

needs and lets them know that I'm I am a

source for that but B that making this

decision whatever the whatever we're

talking about selling a car whatever is

going to increase your ability to get

that same need from other people so I

think if we did this together I think

the number one thing that's going to

happen right away is you're going to be

able to impact twice as many people

you're going to leave a much deeper

footprint on the world so I'm giving you

we're going to double your subscribers

or your listeners but not just that

you're going to make a bigger impact and

Legacy on the

world so every time I'm thinking about

needs always think in terms of

neurotransmitters so if I can compliment

someone on their need that's what we

need from other people so I'm giving

them like 500 million neurotransmitters

being released when they hear this so

it's not just that we

are kind of suffering and insecure and

all these things that we talked about a

minute ago we're also drug addicts

everybody we just need to identify the

drug that that person's addicted

to I was thinking about the pen I was

like I was going to ask you to if I'm

a if I'm an INT intelligence person and

you had to sell me the pen yeah how

would you go about that you know I think

there's a lot of people in the world out

there and I think most people just do

what other people do and I'm sure you

would agree there's so many idiots out

there that just get with the basic thing

I'm going to do this basic thing and

they don't really go outside the box

very often and every once in a while

there's you meet somebody who knows

higher quality things you and you meet

somebody who is able to see things at a

level different than other people and I

would talk about that intelligence while

subconsciously I'm associating all of

that with this this is different it's

Unique it's a pencil um but it's it's

not like other pencil it's not the basic

run-of-the-mill thing so I want to

present that in a way and I want to

start with a negative comment and this

is one of the most effective persuasion

strategies is to I'm going to negatively

associate something I don't want you to

have so let's say uh we're starting our

podcast and I'm I'm afraid Stephen's not

going to connect with me and I know that

you're significance

driven as we started out imagine if I

said something at the very beginning of

this podcast and I said Stephen

thanks for having me man and there's so

many people out there and when anytime I

say something negative in a conversation

I never want to gesture in between you

and me I always want to gesture away so

this is we're talking about other people

you know there's so many people out

there who

just don't really give back to the world

and they don't really have an interest

in helping other people and it's like

every time you meet one of those people

you sit down with them it's like all of

them have the same thing in common they

can't just stop and connect

when they sit down with

somebody so I'm demonizing a trait using

your

needs that I don't want you to have like

the inability to connect ah okay

interesting and you're consciously

pointing off to adjust it to it's others

not right until I said the word connect

and then I gestured between you and me

back and forth between both of us and

that word stop is a very powerful word

in the English language so when I that

it's like all of them have the same

quality to them they can't just

stop and fully connect with somebody

else that's a very subtle thing but I've

used your neurotransmitters I've used

your needs and I've I've got you to

agree you nodded your head

if agree that those people don't really

connect well with other people so that's

how powerful that stuff can be and you

can use the same thing in the in

reverse and I could I could say a

positive thing I could say you know

Stephen what's fascinating to me is I've

gone around the world I've met several

entrepreneurs I've met people who are on

TV and it's like you think that they are

just dismissive offand before you meet

them and it's incredible when you meet

these people it's like all of them have

this ability to just tune everything out

and just completely connect with

somebody and that would have the same

effect and what what's going on there

people we want

to be that person because it's positive

we want to live up to that expectation

set right so what I've done is I've

gotten you to say um as Chris Voss would

put it that's right okay but I've got

you to say that about who you are as a

person okay so now I'm not changing your

ideas I'm changing your

identity changing my Identity or yeah

because you've made an agreement about

who you are you've nodded your head okay

and if I wanted to take that further

I would I would make an admission first

and I'd say you know what I've had

social anxiety growing up and I'm

curious what is it that have you always

been able to just connect with everybody

you talked to or is this something that

you had to work

on oh was that a question yeah okay but

I know it's not a question Yeah Yeah

question the moment that you ask that

that you start to answer that question

you stepped you've made an agreement

about who you are as a person so if I

wanted somebody to be less close

off I might say you know I've spent my

whole life just worried about what other

people think and it it to I was 25

before I got to a point where I was able

to open up have you always been this

open with people or did you have to work

on that so just any answer and no one's

going to give you an answer like

actually I'm just closed off I'm very

close-minded and that's maybe a 0.1% of

people so small agreements and none of

these are designed for people to take

word for word word I guess they can but

it's about the idea of getting someone

to comment on their own identity who

they are as a person is there anything

else as it relates to communication

that's especially important it's funny

that so many people are interested in

the communication part more so than the

listening part they want the flight

checklist yeah I was think of Julian

treasure who did the Ted Talk on how to

be a great speaker he told me he also

did a Ted Talk on how to be a great

listener no no one listened he said

everyone wanted to his one on speaking

has got like 35 million views but the

one on listening just no one's

interested in that but I'm I'm guessing

listening plays a pretty critical role

to being a great speaker yeah and

listening means I can identify who you

are and what the needs that are driving

you and the social needs and the the way

that you make decisions is that part of

the observation part yes

absolutely just listening to that means

that now I have the right words to use

for the communication and the right the

right understanding of what motivates

you as a person so if I'm a therapist

that makes me a better therapist if I'm

a hostage negotiator that makes me a

better hostage negotiator and if I'm a

suicide hotline operator that makes me

way better at my job because I'm

understanding exactly who I'm talking to

and my goal is to talk someone into

doing something that they normally would

not do you talk about this

elicitation yeah what is elicitation

it's a CIA technique right it is it was

originally came up with by this guy

named John Nolan and his book is no

longer for sale you have to get it on

eBay like it's hard to find but the book

is called confidential why isn't it no

longer for sale I think that he just

kind of pulled it off the shelf I'm not

sure okay so elicitation is about using

statements instead of questions and I'll

give you an example let's say you and I

walk into Whole Foods which is we're in

New York so it's probably a block away

somewhere we walk in there and there's

uh let's say there's a young lady

stocking

produce and you get in there and I say

all right Stephen your goal is to go

figure out how much she makes in 60

seconds and you're not allowed to ask

any questions or be

awkward and that's tough right it's it

sounds really tough so if you went over

to her and and this is a a

generalization just to get you to

understand what elicitation is

and said heyy I'm trying to find the

baby carrots and she walks you over

there but while you're walking you say I

just read this article online it says

all Whole Foods employees just got

bumped up to $26 an hour that's

fantastic and she turns around goes

what no I I make

17 so now she doesn't feel like she's

been pressed or questioned about how

much she makes she's correcting you mhm

or if you let's say you got into an Uber

tonight and you said I just read this

article that Uber drivers were one of

the top most highly

satisfied employees in the country

you're going to get a

correction and you're going to be like

what where did you read that so

triggering A need to correct the record

is one of the easiest ways to use

elicitation but it's only one another

one is just making a statement

afterwards and saying I bet you had some

interesting exper experiences doing that

or I can imagine that was challenging

statements are always going to be better

than asking pointed questions because a

person feels like they're volunteering

information the third layer of that is

disbelief so let's say I wanted to ask

if you just got back from vacation and I

didn't want to use any questions we

let's say we meet up for dinner or

something and I said see you look like

you just got back from a vacation

that's a statement and you're like no

actually I've been doing this this this

and this so now you've you've given me

more than if I just asked if you were on

vacation MH and I said wow that had to

be interesting I I can't imagine that

there's got to be a lot of stuff going

on there and you start talking more and

more and more and then like that sounds

great there was no challenges to that

entire trip I love when everything is

100% Flawless and you're like no

actually and then you start going into

that and I'm like no way then now we

have disbelief that comes in and I

haven't asked a single question yet so

that's one thing that I challenge

everybody that I train to get really

good at is that elicitation piece how

many layers can I get into a person or a

conversation just using these statements

and that's why I wrote a there's a whole

chapter about it in in this book here

but that elicitation is powerful

because we're not being asked questions

so our brain doesn't set off little

security alarms and this is how Soviet

spies would get information from a

19-year-old US Navy

sailor uh in the early days of the Cold

War they s ship would pull into Thailand

or submarine would pull into Thailand or

Singapore and a Russian would go up and

these Sailors would be drinking at the

bar Russian would sit there he's got a a

loha shirt on or

something and strike up a conversation

they say

I know that the the German submarines

could outrun you because their

propellers are 22 and all of your

submarine propellers are 18 fet in

diameter and the Sailor slightly drunk

turns around and say no they're not and

starts giving up all this information

just to correct the record and that's

all they did back then was just

correcting the record I'm triggering

this need to offer some kind of

Correction to information that's

inaccurate and even with business

intelligence let's say the a company's

moving and they have to get business

intelligence somebody at that company

will get approached at a bar and

somebody will say yeah I heard you guys

are moving between March and

April and they'll get corrected in they

say no it's actually February but we're

not really supposed to talk about it

it's like there's no way you're going to

move in February it's too cold and the

interest rates are up too high there's

no possible way that the CEO would ever

do that it's like yeah and then you're

going you're going to get more

information out because of the disbelief

so that was correcting the record a

second technique called bracketing where

I'm giving you a series like between

March and may or between 39 and 59 and

the third is the disbelief that starts

getting this information out of people

so if you want to think about like how

do I start a conversation or continue

one using elicitation think of the words

so and then do a recap so you've been

doing this for three years or so this is

not the best job but it's getting things

done for you or I bet so I bet that was

I bet there were still some challenges

there I bet you overcame a whole lot to

get to this point so or I bet is the

best way to do that and when okay so if

I say I bet you hate that coffee yeah

that that's a statement but you're gonna

Endeavor to correct the record either

way yeah and if you do hate the coffee

you'll say yeah like even you saying yes

I do kind of hate it is offering up

information yeah okay interesting and

you could even go go on with that like I

bet you hate that coffee and somebody

says yeah well I do kind of hate it like

I can imagine you're the kind of person

who likes coffee a very specific way

well yeah here's how I like it a lot and

say that's extremely

interesting no creamer no sugar and I'm

just recapping so why is that better

than me just

going how' you prefer your coffee well

if we're just talking about coffee it's

not sensitive information so I wouldn't

I wouldn't say that was better it's for

sensitive information when you're trying

to not get their guard up yeah so the

rule of thumb is the more sensitive the

information is that you need the less

questions you need to be asking and is

that what I mean that's does correlate

to kind of like how I've uh the

information that the spies I've

interviewed have given me like Andrew

Bustamante and Mike Baker they've both

said that much of the game was like

hearing someone out and just letting

them talk and talk and talk and talk

yeah but not being too pushy yeah and

that's that's the best way to not be

pushy is to use the elicitation stuff

perception context permission the PCP

model is a way of understanding how to

get someone to do something from joining

a cult to buying an item yeah so the PCP

model looks like it's three steps but

it's I I want you to view it as kind of

dominoes so one step starts the progress

of coming down the other and once that

comes down the next Domino starts going

down m so if I change your perception

about

something then I change the context that

you're viewing that in which changes the

way that you feel permission to do it so

I'll give you an example would you want

a weird example or a boring one we we'll

go with let's go with weird Okay so

let's go with uh an

attorney in Washington state

was charged with assault of a woman

using

hypnosis and he would have her get naked

in his

office which is something she would not

normally do

and the attorney was studying this

hypnosis and stuff like that he wasn't I

don't as as far as I know he was not

even

good but he would hypnotize her and then

tell

her at the end of the day you come home

from work and this is just like that

time I want you to picture yourself it's

the end of the day you're coming home

from work you drop your keys in the bowl

you make your way to the bathroom you

turn on a hot shower and now you're here

getting ready to get into that shower so

he's changed her perception of where she

is he changed the context of neither one

of you or me right now would like get

naked on a podcast but both of us are

going to later tonight when we go to

shower so but because that's a different

context so he modified the context which

gave her permission to remove clothing

or do something that we otherwise

wouldn't do in a social

setting one of the ways I studied this

and it was fascinating is cult

recruiters I spent a a long time well

six weeks working with these cult

recruiters and I was back and forth

between cult recruiters and door-to-door

salespeople and these are hard-hit

people man that it's a hard job door

to-door

sales but they talk people into doing

things they probably

wouldn't otherwise have done M uh

installing a

$95,000 solar system on their roof or

buying a vacuum cleaner or joining a

cult that's probably

harmful but all of them started off the

conversation by changing the perception

of what's going on so instead of me

saying hey let me talk to you about this

thing that's from a like a needy

perspective they come out with a

survey and they say it's it's an

anonymous survey which automatically

makes the people more open so it's an

anonymous survey I've changed permission

so now the context has shifted slightly

and if I could change your perception

again would you rather be in a group of

people who feel like family or people

who are related to you so I start asking

all these little questions about how

would you rather lived your life in a

way that's like just kind of nudging you

down into this cult mindset of like do

you want to be around people that enjoy

your company like those kind of

questions so more perception changes now

the context shifts to where I've just

made 25 agreements about who I am as a

human

being so now my my context is way off

which shifts my permission it's like I

have permission to do this because

that's the kind of person I've just

agreed to be and that's who I've said

that I am I have to do this because

that's cognitive dissonance like crazy

and one thing I teach you about any

persuasion whether you're doing a scop

on an entire country or you're just

manipulating one person or doing therapy

on one person your main weapon as a

person who is persuasive or influential

is cognitive dissonance which is I'm

getting you to be uncomfortable because

I'm get the way that I've got you to see

the world doesn't match up with what

you're doing so the fast easiest thing

for you to change is what you're doing

instead of changing your mind about

something or calling yourself dumb I

just get you to do something different

and that's weaponized cognitive

dissonance we're seeing a lot of that

with the extreme left extreme right

Politics on both both of those extremes

once I get a person to

make even one or two or three statements

about their identity I have drastically

altered how they're going to behave in

the future uh Robert

chalini who wrote influence and

persuasion wonderful human being wrote

about this where a few

weeks before they go ask somebody to put

a giant ugly sign in their yard that

says drive safe huge ugly sign two weeks

before that they go back door to door

and say do you support safe driving yes

or

no who's going to say no it's like 91%

said yeah yeah I support safe driving

they said good will you put this tiny

sticker in your front window tiny little

sticker and just to let us know that

you're supporting safe driving that's

all we all we ask you to do two weeks

later they come back to the neighborhood

like 89% of people are sticking these

signs in their yard the other

neighborhood they did the test on didn't

have this little survey do you support

safe driving first and it was like 6%

stuck the sign in their yard so making

one agreement about who I am and then

taking action on it so if I can get you

to take AC ction on something not in

just between you and me now I got you to

put a sticker on your window I got you

to do something that alters the way

other people see you so if I can get you

to make something that I've got you to

believe public I get you to make a

Twitter post I get you to make a

Facebook post now I've captured identity

so most persuasion and influence

training in the world is about capturing

ideas identity is where you truly get to

change Behavior because I'm getting you

to agree that you are a certain type of

person before I want you to do

anything

interesting it explains a lot about

politics in fact you know what we what

we see go on in the election cycles and

also just how a a political party

political group can slowly

drift together to a position that

objectively go blood L that's crazy yeah

you know because they kind of slowly

they say I'm this party I signed up to

this this particular political party and

then slowly just with like creep of

beliefs you end up over 10 years all of

you believing in thinking something is

okay yeah it's interesting just because

you made an agreement I guess in part

that explains some of the wars as well

like there's an element here which can

be can explain things like Nazi Germany

yeah and how a civilization can go from

being relatively normal to doing really

horrific barbaric things to people yeah

if you just going back to the milgrim

experiment right away I got you to say

do you fully volunteer to participate in

this would you accept the role of

teacher would you sit down in this chair

would you shock him with this low

voltage I've got you to agree that I'm

the kind of person that's willing to

shock someone for an experiment within

the first two minutes MH and they don't

talk about that they they kind of tend

to say the whole experiment is about

Authority but I don't think it's all

authority I think a lot of it is novelty

and they don't talk about that ever in

the these Recaps of the study but if you

volunteer for that experiment you're

driving on a campus youve probably not

been on going into a building you've

never been to meeting a guy in a lab

coat that you've never met and another

guy you've never met in a room that

you've never met sat in front of a

machine you've never seen reading a quiz

that you've never read in your entire

life all of these things brand new the

number one thing that generates focus in

the Alan brain this is dog you name it

is

novelty so our ancestors they're walking

past a bush every day of their life and

one day Sun's about to set and a stick

snaps behind that bush that's novelty

that's an unexpected piece of

information new information or is it

unexpected yeah what's your definition

of novelty here novelty is my brain is

expecting certain things to happen I'm

going to walk past this bush just like

I've done before I have kind of a script

for running things and something happens

that breaks that script of what I am

predicting about the world does that

make sense yeah any kind of novelty

generates Focus so the four things that

we can manipulate inside of a human

brain uh spells out the word fate so the

four ways to manipulate or influence a

mammal and this is human dog you name it

is through Focus

Authority

tribe and

emotion those are the four things that a

dog could feel if you're looking at a

dog training video you're

watching let's say you're binge watching

three seasons of dog whisperer with

Caesar Milan you're seeing him redirect

Focus establish Authority show contact

with the tribe and praise the dog when

the dog's doing well Focus Authority

tribe and emotion that's how we train

animals it's also how an infomercial

gets you to buy something they grab your

focus they show you here's

a a million people who've already bought

it so far they all have these five-star

reviews everybody in your neighborhood's

doing it or all these people across the

United States are doing it they're

getting success and all of their friends

love them because of that success now we

get emotion and they show it visually

they don't just say it they're showing

this visual images to show the mammal

brain the f Focus Authority tribe and

emotion that spells fate I was thinking

about a lot of like um fizzy drink ads

in the Su in the sunshine in the summer

and you see you know like the you hear

the sound like as they like break it

open there's people there I guess that's

the tribe having a great time and I was

just struggling with the authority part

in that context of those ads you see for

like a fizzy drink brand I think the

authority would be the on screen

presence or brand recognition okay or

could be a celebrity or something yeah

and this is coming from a tribal leader

as if our ancestors didn't listen to a

tribal leader you don't live very long

in your work you talk about how to win

an argument and when I say win an

argument I don't really mean an argument

I mean more like you know me and my

girlfriend are having a conversation

yeah and I want to get to a good

resolution what are the things I should

definitely not

do calling out little

points that any kind of in correct

information we wait until the end we

save it okay so if I hear if I'm in an

argument with someone and they're

calling me out for doing something I

clearly didn't do I'll wait I want to

wait why because they get diffused now

we want them to get that out

first but right away as soon as possible

in any argument like this I want to

establish

like do we have a similar Common Ground

do we have what common ground do we

share and do we want a similar outcome

and I might even ask that question be

like really quick do we both want the

same thing from from this discussion I

would never call it an

argument so one the moment that we

redirect

on I this is the outcome I want instead

of I need to win an argument because

when we're in a fight we tend to think I

intellectually need to conquer this

conversation and I need to be right and

if I can be right that means I was right

not winning an argument doesn't mean you

were right before before or right after

but it's like what is the ideal outcome

for both of us and I would stop in a

business negotiation or whatever what's

ideal for both of us we both want this

same thing and the ideal outcome for you

is this the ideal outcome for me is this

and I think there's some Middle Ground

here and it would be the same thing in a

relationship if anything started

spinning out of control the first thing

I'm going to think is I'm going to

hear what's not being said so if my wife

was

saying you don't even need to call me

you don't call me anyway when you're on

these business trips I never get phone

calls do you think she is worried that

her phone isn't ringing or she's worried

that she's not being appreciated and and

not feeling loved

so men especially will will tend to say

well let's let's open these facts really

quick pull your phone out I'm going to

show you some Miss calls right now it's

not about the calls I need to hear

what's underneath the statements that

someone is saying you need to hear

between the lines just like a behavior

profiler so what is the what's the

emotion that's starting here is it anger

is it loneliness is it feeling

unappreciated I need to understand what

the emotion is behind what someone's

saying and address that and never

address exactly what people are saying

to try to win an argument I just posted

a video on YouTube U three days ago of

it was called the n narcissist off

switch and it was how to disarm any

narcissist and there were these very

specific methods but the the biggest

method of all was to always think about

what they're are using to get out of you

so if I'm in an argument is someone

using fear obligation or guilt and that

acronym spells

fog so am I going to get in trouble or

can I recognize when somebody is using

fear obligation and guilt and if someone

is doing any of those things I want to

call it out in a non-confrontational way

so let's say

um you give me some line about like if

you don't do this I'm going to have to

work 19 hours next week so it's never

about the hours and it's now it's guilt

right M I could say Stephen

it maybe you didn't mean to but it

sounded like you wanted me to feel

guilty about me working next week and I

know know that you're a good person I

don't think you meant it that way so I

will absolutely call out any fear

obligation or guilt always but I'll call

it out in a way that says maybe you

didn't mean this but it sounded like

this is what you were saying right here

and I always want to use that word where

it's non-confrontational and I want to

give them an out so in interrogation

training we always call this the golden

bridge in The Art of War they say give

your opponent a golden bridge on which

they can can Retreat mhm so they can

Retreat across this golden bridge and

trap them in a corner yeah so we give

them an out that's beautiful so maybe

you didn't mean this and I always want

to think about going back to that what

is the hidden feeling or fear that's

behind what they're saying they're

scared of something they're scared of

losing a deal they're scared of losing

money they're scared of looking a

certain way they're scared of what the

people in the room are going to think so

where is the hidden fear in someone's

argument any anytime you're in an

argument there is a level of concealed

fear and just 30 40 seconds you can find

that and a lot of people teach this as a

tactic but just stopping and looking at

a person after they do that in an

argument is so incredibly powerful just

stopping and looking at them yeah so

like say you made that statement to me

about I'm G to have to work 19 hours

next

week the moment that I stop it lessens

the power

of that statement because I'm not

stopping as a tactic I'm choosing to

stop because I want to process what you

are saying and that helps people to do

that because it feels less awkward as if

I'm doing a tactic I'm doing that thing

but I'm just pausing because I'm going

to actually reflect on what you just

said and I'm going to use that time for

just a minute I might look away I might

as soon as you're done talking I might

say and I might just take a moment and

say Stephen it's maybe I heard this

wrong and go right into that so that

long pause is so effective in

conversation especially when it's

meaningful and it's not a tactic what is

the most important thing we haven't

talked about that we should have as it

especially as it relates to what most

people ask you about and they're most

interested in well what is one thing