like I have no words and I hope and pray

people listen to your gut cuz we usually

know what the right thing is

>> and beautiful things come from the

ashes. It was the darkest moment and I

just was like I'm sorry God. I'm sorry.

I'll do what like whatever it takes like

just do you want me to keep apologizing?

Do you want me to like just fix it? My

son put down what he was doing and he

looked at me and he said, "Mom, it's

about time you stood up for yourself." I

want people to know it's you're okay to

make mistakes and just own it, but it

make mistakes and move on and you can

survive through the things you're even

the most afraid of. I'm watching a clip

of you with my dude Dana White.

>> I knew it.

>> And so you're about to interview Dana

White and you call him Joe Rogan.

>> What's Joe Rogan's dream?

>> What's Joe Rogan's dream? What advice

would you give to somebody? Seriously.

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guys. Welcome back to the show. I have

wanted to talk to this woman for about

four years.

>> What?

>> Well, you've had a little interesting

run here the last four or five years,

and I want to I want to learn about the

behind the scenes a little bit. You guys

all know her from probably ESPN, what,

16 years at ESPN.

>> She's covered everything from the

Masters to the NBA Finals, you name it.

All the best sporting events in the

world. She's a really interesting woman.

I've had a chance to watch her speak a

couple times now. We've been on the road

together at different events, which is

actually what we're doing here. But I

want to pick her brain about what

happens everybody when your whole life

kind of gets flipped upside down. Cuz I

know a lot of you that are driving in

your car right now or you're on the

treadmill. Maybe you're at that point in

your life where you're I need to make a

switch or life is switching on me. And

that's what happened to this woman. and

I want to pick her brain about what it

felt like, what she did, and how she got

through it with Sage Steel. Welcome to

the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much. I I didn't even

know that you knew who I was before like

two months ago. Of course,

>> when we met on the road, I

>> remember. No, of course I did.

>> Thank you.

>> So, your life kind of blew up.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. The first part, I guess, before

we go through the blowup, tell everybody

sort of the genesis of what happened

before the blowup. What happened?

>> September of 2021. So if we think I mean

how much has our country changed right

since then.

>> So we're in CO at the time.

>> We are deep in co and I am working for

the Walt Disney Company because those

who don't know ESPN is owned by Disney

so is ABC

>> and they had mandated that we all be

fully vaccinated by September 30th 2021

or I would we would all lose our jobs,

be fired.

>> And we had plenty of notice about it. I

remember in the summertime talking about

it with my agent thinking this can't be

real, right? Like they're not forcing us

to do this. I mean, this is all so new

and we don't know enough about it to

force it, do we? And I kind of ignored

it. And then it got closer and closer.

My agent's like, "You um you got to make

a decision." And of course, he assumed I

was going to do it.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and I did a lot of homework,

honestly. Like I it's not just for me,

but I have I have three kids at the

time. They were high school and college,

>> and I like I have to do my homework.

That is my job as a parent. Um, and I

just realized that a simple Google

search taught me a lot

>> that the FDA FDA on average takes

between six to nine years to approve a

vaccine usually.

>> And we're shoving this down our throats

in a couple of months

>> with a lot of and I think even at that

time I felt political pressure that um

>> Donald Trump had originally been under

in 2020 when it all hit and they were

like get it out there fast and he did

it. Operation Warp Speed, I think it was

called. And then when Biden came in and

it was a whole different vibe, but hey,

we're going to force it. And it just

didn't feel right. I'm no doctor. I'm no

scientist. I'm the opposite of that. I

talk about football and basketball and

baseball. Like, that is not my lane. But

I it just didn't feel good. And so I

said, I don't want to do it. And my

agent said, "Well, you're going to have

to get some sort of exemption." And

religious or medical. And I said, "Well,

neither one of those really apply. It's

just that I think it's wrong

>> to force somebody to force somebody to

do something to their bodies, period. Um

and

um at the end of the day, I took the

shot.

>> Okay.

>> And um still haven't fully forgiven

myself for it, for caving,

>> but I was afraid.

>> You're afraid.

>> And I had, like I said, three kids. I

was recently divorced and 100% of the um

financial burden was on me

>> for everybody. And so what what do you

do? You weigh it, right? And okay, I'm

going to stand on my principles because

I'm afraid May maybe the shot's fine

>> at that time. Maybe it's not. We don't

know. Just doesn't feel right, but I

have

>> three mouths to feed and a lifestyle to

keep up as I'm sending three kids to

college.

>> That's real.

>> It is real. Um

>> it's real for a lot of people, too. It's

one way to ask you. I don't want to

interrupt you, but

>> a lot of people, you know, are in

situations where they might like to

speak up about something. Yeah.

>> But they've got this choice between,

>> you know, staying in line in their life,

even being on social media for some

people, I'd like to speak up about what

I think or what I believe, but I think a

lot of people, by the way, including

myself, I don't. I just decided after a

while, it's like that's just not the

lane I'm going to be in publicly.

>> Well, I think it's smart.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, what I've done is not exactly

brilliant in many ways as far as

speaking. I mean, once I got to a

certain point, Yes. I always say to

people like do what you're doing, you

know? I mean, I am the poster child for

what happens when you speak up. And I'm

one of one of many. So, I don't want to

deter people from it, but the reason why

I assume you decided that is because you

see what happens. You see the

ramifications.

>> Yeah. I think also probably in my case I

just feel like there's enough people

filling that vacuum in my space in the

in the podcast space that sometimes

people want to come kind of like sports

frankly sometimes people would just like

to watch the game and not know all the

time what every athlete thinks about

every single issue. So I think sometimes

on my show, but I really admire

>> somebody says, "No, you know, this is

what I think." And eventually you did

that, right? You were on a podcast, I

guess, is what happened, right? And made

mention of this

>> podcast, see what happens. You just

loosen up and you just next thing you

know.

>> Yeah.

>> And so, so you kind of say something on

a show and then tell them tell them what

happened.

>> Yeah. I um had actually come from

getting the shot September 30th, 2021.

That means you had to pretty much Yeah.

It means I had to be fully vaccinated

two weeks prior to make sure it all was

in my system. Um and I and I was to the

point literally I didn't know as I was

pulling into the parking lot at a

grocery store where they were

administering these shots to get it and

I sat in my car for 20 minutes crying

like what do I do? Um and when I walked

in and and you know the woman she was

wonderful I'll never forget her. I wish

I had gotten her name. Um, she looked at

me and my eyes were red and she said,

"Are you okay?"

>> And I said, "No, I'm being forced to

take this shot and I and I and I don't

want to do it and I'm crying like a baby

with a stranger."

>> And she looked at me and she said, "That

is so wrong and I'm so sorry." Mhm.

>> And she held my hand for a second and

then when she put it in my arm, like it

sounds dramatic, but I felt something

change in me at that moment. I changed.

I didn't know it at the time, but I I'll

never forget that feeling.

>> What do you mean?

>> Um, anger.

>> And I'm not an angry person. I'm a happy

golucky person. But I I I had never

experienced what it felt like to be

forced to do something. It's one thing

when you're, you know, 12 years old and

you're forced to clean your room if you

want to go hang out with your friends at

night. Like that's a different thing.

This is my body. My body, my choice,

right, guys?

>> So, um, I hugged her afterwards and she

was so upset. Like, she was doing a job

that she needed, too. Like, when you go

dive deep on into this stuff, it's

heartbreaking for a lot of people. But I

got in my car and I had committed to go

on Jay Cutler's podcast, the former NFL

quarterback who had just was just

starting a podcast and I was doing a

favor for his publicist who said he

needed a woman on the show. I was like I

I crushed him in his bare highlights for

years. So maybe I should go on and be

nice. And so I that's why I said yes.

And he know I mean I had a band-aid on

my shoulder cuz I just got in the shot.

It was still warm weather and I forgot.

I raced in, flipped up my laptop and

pushed the zoom. And then he asked me,

he said, "What is that?"

>> And I just kind of, you know, again, I I

took a deep breath and your mind goes,

"Careful, careful, careful, careful what

you say." And I said, "Listen, I um had

to take the shot today that I was um

forced to take if I wanted to keep my

job." And here's what got me got me in

trouble. I said, um, listened, listen,

we're owned by Disney and Disney

requires it. And I think it's sick and

wrong for any company to require their

employee to do anything to their bodies,

but

>> I have a job that I need and a job that

I love.

>> And I took it

>> and that was it.

>> And then just think about this

everybody. I mean, just for speaking up

for what you believe. By the way, this

has nothing to do with whether you agree

or disagree with one's opinion. It's

whether or not somebody has the right to

speak their mind. I guess to some extent

they could come back and say, "Well, you

represent us as well." Right. There's an

element of that.

>> While complying though, and that's the

key,

>> I complied with the rules.

>> Yeah.

>> And just said, "I disagree with it, but

I'm going to do it."

>> In hindsight,

>> true answer was she didn't say anything.

>> I'm so grateful I said it. I swear to

you, I am so I literally would not

change a thing.

>> Including

>> the moment that I got the call from my

agent again who said, "Hey, um, this

isn't going over very well." And

executive in charge number two wants to

talk to you.

>> Um, and

the feeling I I remember where I was I

pulled over the car and I remember where

I was parked. I remember every moment of

it. Mhm.

>> Um I remember when he said they're going

to pull me off the air and suspend me

>> for an unlimited amount of time at that

point

>> after 16 years somewhere. I mean that's

that's a big move.

>> Yeah. And honestly, like I'm not trying

to I was a model employee. I was easy as

far as a teammate. I'm a co-orker. I was

proud of that. I mean I'm I'm an army

kid. That's how we're raised. You are

you are part of a team. I've been around

you now for a couple months on these

speaking things that we do. I think you

probably have a tendency to be somewhat

conservative in your politics. I think

it's safe to say.

>> Yeah. I I think um I come out of the

closet a little bit as a conservative

through the years.

>> Um but I always thought it was super

important to not talk about it in

particular on air. I never once did on

air in 29 years in local, regional, and

national TV because as a sports cer

that's not why you're tuning in to ESPN.

>> That's a fact. period. And I used to say

that to my bosses and I would beg them

and I would hear on the street every

time I'm out at a a game or at an

airport, wherever, like, would you guys

just stop? I just want to get the

highlights or the interviews with the

coach. And I'm like, yes, that's why I

got into the business. We all have

opinions and our opinions are based on

our experiences,

>> right?

>> Like that that's just very basic to me.

So we might disagree on, you name it,

whatever it might be politically or

culturally, but I'm going to respect it

because yours is based on maybe

something that you experienced that was

difficult that I'm not a part of. So who

am I to judge? And I really feel so

strongly about that. Um, and yes, it had

come out, but

>> my um I think professionalism

>> and

>> I just I loved being friends with

everybody. Everybody. the crew is better

than half the people I worked with on

TV. Sure. And so that's important to me.

And so I never would bring that stuff up

because it doesn't affect how I think of

you as a human being. So yes, people

knew, but I still was respected and

liked because they're more important

things for a while.

>> Um what you said about my co-workers at

the time speaking up politically on TV.

>> So that's where everything changed

because I was suspended. I was pulled

off the air. I was made to publicly

apologize. And of course they

distributed it to the LA Times and the

Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post

and the New York Times and you know here

let's make her apologize and we're going

to crush her and then we'll let her back

someday and it was about two weeks later

when they let me back. Then they were

going to take assignments from her and

that was the key. I'm like wait I

apologize we moved on but you're still

going to take hard earned assignments

from me. Which one is it?

>> Are we allowed to talk about our

personal beliefs or not?

>> And oh by the way that was happening on

ESPN airwaves. what I said about my

opinion on being forced to take a a

COVID shot was on a an off day on a side

podcast. So, all I ever asked for was

consistency.

>> And when they continue to allow that to

happen on bigger and bigger levels and

more consistently, um my I I talked to

an attorney and he said, "You know what?

If if you just apologize to her for the

double standard, she's good." and they

left and left again. So that's when I

had decisions to make about um do I

stand up here because of the hypocrisy.

And I also and I knew like I was just I

was one of a handful of conservatives

there who had been so fearful of

speaking up and and were silenced. So I

thought this isn't actually just about

me. I had probably the highest position

or the biggest role I guess biggest

platform at that time. And I it hit me

like I am here for a reason for these

other people who are whispering to me

thank you and young women in the

bathroom who would whisper and make sure

all of our mics are off like thank you

for what you're doing. You're helping

me. And that like

that hit me hard where I felt I would be

a failure to them if I didn't speak up.

So that's why I sued the Walt Disney

Company, not for making me take the

shot. It was the hypocrisy of what came

after.

>> I think that's fair. So, you know what,

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You know, I'm wondering that's just

stressful. So, I I want to kind of bring

it to where someone listening is how

does this apply to me? Right. One,

evaluating speaking up, speaking your

mind, and by the way, supporting people

who do even that you disagree with. Yes.

>> It's it's it's fascinating to me that I

actually love hearing people's ideas. I

when I I don't try not to watch too much

political TV anymore cuz it just

stresses me out. But when I do when a

story comes out, I love to watch like

Fox News and hear what they say and then

I go, "I'm going to flip it to MSNBC and

I want to just hear how they both, you

know, frame something, how they

position." It's hysterical. It's

fascinating. And then and so I I'm

actually I like free speech. I want to

hear people's ideas. So I would support

it whether I agreed with it or I

disagreed with it. And that's the point

of what I wanted to ask you about. But

the other point of it is you I know what

it's like to be in the public eye and I

know what it's like to get a lot of hate

and disagreement and push back. I don't

know what it's like to be the bread

winner in my family and lose my career

though and then lose my marriage around

the same time. And so your world's

crashing in. There are people listening

to this right now that their version of

what you went through is happening.

something in their life just fell apart.

Someone died that they love. There's a

relationship that ended, a career that

didn't, a business that failed. How did

you get through this? And what advice

would you give to somebody? They came

out to you to Starbucks. They said,

"Sage, your story inspires me, and I'm

going through my blow up of my life, my

life, Armageddon." What would you say to

them?

>> Yeah. Well, there isn't just one way,

that's for sure. It might be different

for each person, but um

prayer that I was doing but not enough

of

>> and to really mean it

>> and to really give up control and ask

for help and guidance and clarity and it

came awfully fast when I did that.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. Um but it started at the darkest

darkest moment. So when I was suspended

um you know and at the time Twitter I it

was still Twitter not Elon's ex and just

a different world and my I mean I had

colleagues I was working with who went

on Twitter and said all the things about

me and it was allowed once again like

all the

>> and and threats I mean threats to me

serious threats threats to my children.

Um, and I remember just curling up in a

ball, put the blackout shades down and

curled up in a ball in my bed and was

sobbing like, "What have I done? I'm so

stupid." Like, th this is my fault. And

I was as sick as I've ever been in my

life from CO

>> from CO after

>> after I got the shot that was supposed

to prevent all this. So, all of this at

once, I it was the darkest moment. And I

just was like, "I'm sorry, God. I'm

sorry. I'll do what like whatever it

takes. like just do you want me to keep

apologizing? Do you want me to like just

fix it?

>> So scared. Um and

my mom and dad are my life.

>> Um besides my kids and my husband

obviously, but my mom and dad have

picked me up at times when I didn't

think I deserved it. Um and they my dad

um still is, but at the time was

undergoing chemotherapy.

>> Oh my gosh. and he and my mom got in a

car and drove up and picked my butt up

off the ground because I was broken

>> and I was done and I wasn't allowed to

see other people cuz I was contagious.

And so my kids were with their dad and I

was alone for eight days. My mom and dad

said no and came and picked me up. Um

and

you know my dad who's a army a retired

army officer, a West Point grad, tough

guy, tough as nails. He has empathy. I'm

a little girl still. Um, but he's like,

"Okay, that you have a choice to make

here. Like, are they going to win this?

>> Are you going to let them do this to

you? Are you going to stand up? Like,

get back to work. Put your head, you

know, keep your head up high." And I I

was like, I mean, I walked in there,

>> lost 10 pounds during that time. I was

scared to death. And then what happens?

You have to when that life goes on,

>> go

>> ready or not. Mhm.

>> And so, yeah, everybody has issues in

their lives and problems and

relationship issues and kid issues and

whatever it is, but with our job, when

that light goes on, like if you aren't

ready and don't perform two hours of

live national TV every single day,

you're out.

>> So, I had to compartmentalize. I became

a much better actress than I thought.

>> So, I would pass that along, too. Like,

you're gonna go through it, but you

still have to function. Yeah. So figure

out ways to

>> put it in the back, like kick it to the

back of your mind for whatever that time

period is and go back and deal with it.

It's not going to go away,

unfortunately, as much as we might wish

it away, right? Um, but I I learned a

lot about myself during that time.

>> What'd you learn?

>> That I'm a lot tougher than I ever

dreamt.

>> And to walk in there every day knowing

that half my co-workers, if not more,

hated me just for my opinions. and still

having to go on and you know and sit

next to them and make but but it was

>> once I got in there I would feel this

like

>> calm peace power come over me

>> yes

>> because I loved my job so much it still

gets me to the to uh to the very last

day like I loved it

>> so how could I let them take that joy

from me too when I knew I was good at

that I was good at telling stories and

good at doing highlights and good at

interviewing people even if I only had

four and a half minutes before break to

make them feel comfortable enough to

give me something different that they

hadn't given to another anchor.

>> So I f I kept feeling this strength that

I would gain every day that I would walk

in there and the last thing um that I

would share is this story with my uh my

son. Um, fast forward a couple of months

and when I decided to file the file the

lawsuit

>> and the night before I filed it, I spoke

to each of my kids separately. My oldest

was a freshman in college, my son was a

senior in high school, my youngest was a

daughter was a sophomore in high school.

And the girls were pretty emotional

about it because what happened is every

time I had spoken up about something or

gotten in trouble in this case, people

come after them

>> and mama bear comes out and I want to

hurt everybody that you know teachers,

coaches,

>> friends, parents would say things to my

kids about me like really shut up, come

talk to me if you have a problem. But in

particular, I went to my son, who I

always say is, you know, in the middle

of these two psycho girls, psycho

sisters of his,

>> and I said, "Listen, this is what's

happening tomorrow. There's going to be

some headlines. Um, and I want to

apologize now for what is going to come

our way. And you don't ever have to

defend me. Just tell people who give you

crap."

My mom has a right to her opinion. I

don't always agree with my mom, but she

has a right and so do you.

>> First Amendment, freedom of speech. And

I said, "But I'm sorry, buddy, for

what's going to happen. I just have to

stand up for this. This is wrong." And

my son put down what he was doing and he

looked at me and he said, "Mom,

>> it's about time you stood up for

yourself."

>> Wow.

>> Wow.

>> One of the greatest moments of my life

as a mother, for sure.

>> Proud.

>> Um,

and it also taught me that I had been

living the wrong way.

>> Meaning,

>> I'd been quiet. I'd bitten my tongue

>> for so long doing what I thought was the

right thing to protect my kids, protect

my livelihood and my job, but protect my

kids, protect people who love me from

getting the shrapnel, right?

>> Yeah.

>> And what was I teaching them?

>> I'm preaching them to stand up and be

tall and be strong and stand up for

yourself. But then I'm practicing the

opposite and I'm silent. What a copout.

What a sellout.

>> So at that moment I knew

>> sucker.

>> I'm sorry. Like I knew at that moment

that no matter what happened with this

insane lawsuit of little old me, David

versus Goliath against the Walt Disney

Company, that even if they crushed me,

which they did a good job of financially

within 0.5 seconds, right? It's Disney.

How am I going to But even if I lost, um

I would would have won because my kids

saw that their mom was like enough,

>> no more. And then I I know now that

they're not going to wait till they're

50.

>> Yeah.

>> To take a stand. And And then I didn't

lose. I settled out of court. Like it

was a win. But in and for the sake of

principle, not money or anything else.

It's like don't you dare.

>> Um so that's why your original question

about I wouldn't change a thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Because most importantly, my kids,

they're going to live differently

because of what they saw me.

>> That's so beautiful. By the way, what

the heck happened to us as a culture?

>> I know.

>> What the heck happened? Like I probably

only cried five or six times on the

show. You just got me.

>> Sorry.

>> Um I'm just picturing you at that time

stage just the I it's different just

when you hear a story, but I can picture

it like the world's crumbling and this

woman's going to stand up and but what

happened to us? We're like, you know, I

think one thing about taxes or whatever

and you think another and now we hate

each. What the heck happened? It feels

like it's the last

>> 10 years or so this has happened. This

wasn't when I was a little boy.

>> That was not how we treated one another.

I It was

>> You're right.

>> It's just crazy. I mean, honestly, so

emotionally humans treat one another

now.

>> That breaks my heart, too. And

>> it started, I think, um, people didn't

feel it, but probably 2008, 2009, 10,

that's when I felt it. Um, and I guess

we need to at some point as a society

dig into the why, but the key is where

are we today and what do we do with it.

>> Um, I will say

um

like I I'm mad at myself for taking so

long

>> to figure it out.

>> But it takes what it takes and the

journey is the journey. But during that

time

>> when I lived in fear long before the

cancel that official cancellation, there

were a couple along the way, but that

was the big one. But when I started to

speak up on other things, I remember

walking in airports.

I lived in Phoenix at the time. I was

hosting all of our NBA coverage in Los

Angeles, but lived in the Scottsdale

area. I didn't want to live in LA, so I

just did. And I was all always at Sky

Harbor Airport in Phoenix, you know,

twice a week. And I remember after I

said something that I thought was pretty

innocuous that got me in trouble,

walking through the airport, eyes down,

eyes at the ground, so afraid of making

eye contact because what I saw on social

media and what my bosses and friends

told me was that I was a pariah and I

was hated and I believed it. So I that's

where I another moment where I get

choked up if I think back to like trying

to do the right thing

>> and be true to myself. Everybody else is

allowed to be true to themselves, right?

If you think a certain way, but

>> and

>> and going to do the job that I love, but

like walking in in fear everywhere. And

I don't want anyone else to ever feel

that way.

>> It's it it can take over. And I feel so

blessed and fortunate that I got out of

it, you know, again, by the grace of

God.

>> Yeah. I think everyone, your advice is

incredible, by the way. And I think this

the other thing, lessons for those you

that are going through it, just listen

to what she said cuz I'm around her now.

I see her now. This will pass. This two

will pass. And if you're faithful and

you surrender the things of God that are

out of your control and you take control

of the things that you can, my dad was

an AA. He was sober for 35 years and

always mess up the saying, but

essentially it's, you know, discern

between the difference of the things you

can control and you can't and give up

the things you can't control to God. And

sounds like you really did that.

>> Can I ask you a question?

>> Yeah.

>> Because the one of the most beautiful

things to come from the chaos and the

fear and all that is um I've I've

finally gotten over that fear of being

disliked.

>> Mhm.

>> And that's what people also have to

think about too. Yeah,

>> it is scary for those of us pleasers in

the room, you know, but in general,

>> it's a whole new world. It doesn't mean

that I don't care and have empathy, and

I I really do, but

>> I cannot control

>> what you think of me. Even if I treat

you like,

>> yep,

>> the president of the United States,

whatever, the king, I I still can't

change it. So, if you if you don't like

me, I got to let go of that. I assume

you let go of that.

>> I had to do You know what I learned to

do it is in speaking. Like if you're

walking out in front of 20,000 people,

if you're worried about what every

single person in there thinks, right?

Like, yeah, I think I don't Well, let me

be honest. Let me let me be honest.

>> I think I've gotten better at that. I

think there are still occasions where

>> I'm too concerned with what people

think, even in my mid-50s, but far less

than before, just because I know that I

can't control it. I actually don't think

it's really any of my business. But I

also listen to it a little bit because

at least in my youth, there were

probably reasons some people held

opinions about me. So I I like to look

at it and go, is there any validity to

what they're saying? And if there isn't,

then I'll let go of it. But I make

enough mistakes from time to time that

even yesterday, one of the speeches I

gave here, I made an error on stage.

>> There was a guy in with a phone in the

front row on his phone. And as a pro

with, you know, thousands of people in

there, you just keep talking. And I just

couldn't take my eyes off this guy. So

finally I called him out in front of the

entire and I told him I loved him, etc.,

etc. But it was really my ego and my

>> my temper just for that flash second

getting a little bit better of me. So if

that guy didn't like me, he's probably

justified not to. So I I'll listen to it

a little bit, but for the most part,

I've let go of that. I really care what

what um God thinks of me and and and

some close people that I know that'll

tell me the truth, right? like, hey,

you've overstepped here or you've made a

mistake. But for the most part, I think

I've let go that my year for the my word

for the year last year was surrender.

>> Meaning just because I'm a control freak

and I think successful people love to be

in control. But you can take that to a

point where it's so painful and it's

excruciating like what you were going

through. I also think I heard this story

I wanted to ask you about and I want to

hear you tell cuz I haven't heard you

tell it. But I heard it through third

party. But you might have been a little

bit built for this a little bit in the

sense that your parents are biracial if

I'm right. Your father's black, your

mother's white. Correct.

>> And they chose to do that at a time

where it's not quite as acceptable as it

is today. And even today for some people

it's for some fringe crazies, it's still

not acceptable. But there's this story

about tell the story if you would about

your dad writing a letter to to your

mom's dad.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And this this is built in the sense that

this is somebody giving grace to

somebody who doesn't like them also,

right? I think for the wrong reason. So

it's not just not caring what people

think, but actually the maybe the

elevated level where your dad was or

where I'd like to get is where I can

even give grace to people

>> that do ill towards me.

>> Yeah. I I'm I have some work to do in

that category. So do I. I need to ask my

dad.

>> Sounds like your father did a lot of

work on that though. This is an

incredible story if I heard it right.

>> Yeah, thank you. It's something that I

didn't know about with my parents until

they um were interviewed by NFL Films.

My brother, one of my two brothers is

the senior vice president of public

relations and communications for the

Baltimore Ravens.

>> Okay.

>> Um and he's been in the NFL for 25 years

in PR. And so NFL Films was doing a

story on him and in doing so wanted to

talk to my parents and then discovered

this story.

>> Okay.

>> I didn't know it until they told it on

camera. Wow.

>> And um basically 1971, October of 71, my

parents got married and my mom's parents

were not there. They chose to not be

there.

>> Um they were against her marrying a

black man.

>> And again, a very different time.

>> I believe we do need to give some grace,

especially when people change and

evolve, and we're all capable of that.

And my family is proof of that. But um

my dad, of course, was upset. this is

his wife and he wants to protect her and

of all people to not support her. It's

her mom and dad.

>> So they got married. Um anyway, uh they

did not show up. My mom's brother came

and walked her down the aisle.

>> Um and by the way, I think about

strength and my mom being 22 years old

and having to make that decision. Are

you kidding me? So there's so much

there. There's a lot there.

>> I'm so humbled with my little spat with

Disney. Like look at that. That's that's

I mean you're 22. Um, and so then, you

know, my dad's in the military, a young

officer, and they uh moved to Panama

where I where I was born, and um my mom

called her parents to say, "I'm

pregnant, and she's the oldest of four,

and I'm going to have your first

grandchild." And her mom hung up the

phone.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> And wow.

>> Again, I think about myself in that

situation, and I just I I've sobbed

thinking about that cuz my mom was there

the moment I gave birth. all three

times, you know,

>> and so that upset my father, as you

might imagine, as it should for any man,

>> simply because of the color of his skin.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> But he wasn't as concerned about the

their why. He was concerned about their

decision to do that to their daughter.

>> And so what he began doing is writing

letters, penning letters, pen and paper.

We weren't on computers then, right?

once a month to my mom's parents and

sent them from Panama, Canal Zone,

Panama to West Springfield,

Massachusetts, where they lived in their

small town.

>> Wow.

>> And my mom, as she says on this NFL

films piece, which is still out, I'd

love it if people took a look at um Gary

Steel is my dad's name. And it's the

most beautiful piece that I cry every

time I watch it. And I've watched it

10,000 times.

>> And my mom says on the piece, like, I

don't know why he did it. I kept telling

him they're not going to read it.

They're not going to answer and you're

wasting your time.

>> Wow.

>> And my dad looked in the camera and said

they needed to know that I was taking

care of their daughter. This black man

was taking care of their daughter. And

then he said it was it was the harder

right because he's ticked off.

>> Um the harder right comes from West

Point where he graduated and it's part

of the cadet prayer that I try to share

whenever I'm given any platform. um help

me to choose the harder right instead of

the easy or wrong and never to be

content with a half truth when the whole

truth can be one.

>> So in that moment my dad chose the

harder right once a month to write that

letter.

>> Almost seven years later um there was a

meeting my mom's youngest sister um

hosted Thanksgiving. Didn't tell my mom

and dad that the parents were going to

be there. didn't tell the parents that

my mom and dad were going to be there.

They walk in, assigned seats. My aunt

sat my dad and my grandmother next to

each other. And in this family, we hold

hands when we say grace, a blessing over

our meal. And her mother wouldn't do it.

And she said, the younger daughter said,

"Mom, in our home, this is what we do."

She did that to my dad. And he held her

hand tightly.

>> Oh my gosh. And later that day on

Thanksgiving Day, my grandfather, my

mom's dad kind of apologized. We found

out later it really wasn't his idea.

This was more my grandmother who

struggled so much. My grandfather went

along with it. Um, and he said, "Listen,

Gary, I'd like to put all this behind us

and, you know, start over."

>> And my dad said,

>> "Okay."

>> Wow. He did. But

>> we will move forward. I will never

forget

>> what you did

>> and didn't do

>> for your daughter, my wife,

>> but I will forgive. And today is day one

and we go forward from here.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> So my parents and that's when it came

full circle, right? Um again, something

that I believe what I went through is

much less important than what my parents

went through. But if they could do that

>> Yeah. alone,

early 20s, they were babies, not a penny

in their bank account. By the way, if

you're trying to get rich, you're not

joining the military, okay? You know,

>> like, who am I to live in fear? Who am I

to to choose the easier wrong?

>> So, the harder right was to say,

>> wait a minute, Disney, this is what

you're preaching.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. So, so I don't know. Was I made

for it? I

>> Yeah. Well, that adage that God doesn't

give you anything you're not capable of

handling clearly is because of the way

that you were raised, though. I mean,

that is one of the easily greatest

stories I've ever heard in my life. And

the way you tell it, by the way, I can I

guess you don't know what you're doing

to me today. Sorry. I can picture your

mom and your dad at that age and that

time. And then calling to be excited

that you're going to have your first

baby and have your mom hang up.

>> Breaks my heart.

>> And then your dad to give him that grace

though. But to say it like a man too

though, you know, hey, you know, don't

forget.

>> And my dad, if you ever meet him, and he

hopefully he'll come.

>> I'd love to meet your father.

>> Oh my gosh, he would love to meet you.

And I want him to see what all of this

is about. Um,

>> he has since shrunk. He's 79, but at his

>> peak um when he played college football

at Army, broke the color barrier. First

black man to play varsity football ever

at Army.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> I know. He's amazing. But he was 66 and

a half, 220 lbs. And you think about

that in the mid60s. Oh, he's a giant.

>> A giant absolute giant. Oh my gosh. Now

he's about 63, maybe 64.

>> A big man.

>> Still two 240 now. And he looks he looks

great even with all of his health

issues.

>> So I picture my dad as that with that

calm but firm voice looking down at my

little 6' 3 in Irish grandfather saying

what he needed to say. By the way, I

have actually never told the story

>> because it's always on the video clip

that I play.

>> Got it.

>> So, I'm so glad you did.

>> I thank you for asking me to. It brought

me back to it. Um to hearing like that

was my dad's voice that you just heard

because

>> that's your face change, too, by the

way.

>> Did I get tough and strong and mean?

>> But he's not mean. He's the biggest

teddy bear. Well, it's cuz I'm his

favorite child, obviously. So, he's nice

to me. We should send this clip to your

brother then. For sure.

>> Two brothers.

>> Two brothers.

>> I'm going to ask you know, by the way,

I'm just taken aback by that story. And

it is, you know, that adage that success

leaves clues, strength leaves clues,

there's there's footprints in your life

that that prepared you for this time.

That's like,

>> I just didn't know.

>> Isn't it kind of obvious to you though?

Like as you tell that story yourself,

like that's come on. I mean, what you

went through is unfair and wrong

regardless of the political part of it.

Who cares about that part of it, right?

Like the point is, should somebody be

able to speak up or stand for what they

believe in or not? Should it cost them

their career? And why is it okay? No

matter what side you're on, that one

side can speak their mind the entire

time and the other side can't even give

a peep not even on the platform.

Correct.

>> That's just wrong.

>> And that's what I do need to clarify one

thing and that is what the lawsuit isn't

about, you know, oh, you suspended me in

unfairness. It was about that hypocrisy,

but more so the suspension of me. you

weren't on air

>> for I wasn't on air and there is a

fascinating um

>> it's it's first amendment but not in the

constitutional governor you know like

government way obviously um there's a

statute in the state of Connecticut

>> and it's it's employment related that I

I didn't know when I was saying any of

this I didn't care I was just being me

but being respectful saying hey this is

my opinion not my companies and I'm

complying um but you are allowed to be

critical of your employer if you are

complying with their rules

Mhm.

>> Connecticut. In the state of

Connecticut, check your state. Of all

states, right? Of all states.

Connecticut. Are you kidding me?

Surprising.

>> Um, and so I I had no idea, but that's

what the lawsuit was based on because

everyone says you're an idiot. First

amendment doesn't apply and it's a

private employer. Yeah, absolutely.

>> Where you live and where you are

employed matters and that's how we did

it. And it wasn't again I don't care

about the legal ease. The principle of

this and my hope was my goal was at that

time to file it

>> was to just make employers think a

little bit

>> and remember you have human beings here.

Yes, we all have numbers and you know

goals to reach etc. But at the end of

the day every employer you get more out

of your employees when you treat them

like actual human beings. I always say

just pretend like you care even if you

don't. Right.

>> So true. By the way, what I just keep

going back listening to you and by the

way we all live through this so we know

it. But like what in the heck happened

to us? Like in your case it's like a

medical decision. I mean it's not even

that controversial really. It's like we

hate each other over politics now. Like

what are we crazy? I remember a long

time ago Clinton said, Bill Clinton

said, and I'll mess up the quote, but

it's there. He's like, and and I'm not

even saying he was actually virtuous in

doing this, but I remember him saying,

I'm like, I agree with that. I don't

even know if he meant it, but along the

lines of this shouldn't be about right,

like who's good or bad, but like who's

right and wrong about something? And

even if you think someone's wrong, it

doesn't make them bad or evil or

sinister or your enemy. It's just

>> especially people of faith. What's wrong

with us? Like, this is your brother and

or sister in the body of Christ, and

you're going to hate them because they

got a different opinion about a gun or a

different opinion about taxes. What is

wrong with you? Well, but there's the

the problem is is sometimes when um the

truth does come out and in this case

with co

>> Mhm.

>> there's no accountability. Like I was

actually right

>> and I I wasn't rocket science by the

way. It doesn't take much. But like

>> sometimes if people come back with

contrition and are accountable then then

that helps. I mean that's the human

element of it.

>> But

>> it's much bigger than that. To me, in my

humble opinion, this is an an

intentional, evil, deliberate attempt to

take God out of things.

>> That's what's missing.

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Let me have some fun with you about

something. I want to ask you about

something funny since we've been so

serious today. So, when you're on camera

enough, you're going to make us screw

up.

>> Oh, so many.

>> No, watch this. I'm going to give you

mine. So, I've had a couple, but like

zillions of hours on camera, right? So,

I'll start with mine and then I want to

ask you about yours. And the reason I'm

going to ask you about this is I want

people to know it's you're okay to make

mistakes and just own it, but it make

mistakes and move on and you can survive

through the things you're even the most

afraid of. So, here's mine. I had a book

out. It's called The Power of One More.

It did great. And uh but I'm doing a

million hits for the book, podcast, TV

shows, you know, and I told some stories

about the book. Anyway, I'm on one of

the shows. It's my eighth show that day.

I'm tired. I don't remember which story

I've told on which show. And a good

friend of mine, it's Tom Billio, is a

show called Impact Theory. He sets this

question up. He says, "Hey, people are

probably going to think you're crazy,

but you have this way that you manage

time. You almost manipulate time in your

mind the way that you do it. I'd like

you to explain how you do it." And so

there's this clip of me that went like

hundreds of millions of views. I just

look like a complete [ __ ] And I say,

"Yeah, I manipulate time." And and I go

to tell this story and I I misspeak. I

say, "And so you're like some guy living

in a cave 300 years ago." I meant to say

three million years ago, which I had

said on 150 other podcasts, but I

misspe. So this viral clip goes out of

me sounding like a complete idiot.

Valid. I was an idiot.

>> And uh it was pretty embarrassing. And

so I had to, you know, get over the

embarrassment of making this mistake.

I'm watching a clip of you with my dude

Dana White.

>> I knew it.

>> Okay. I just got to ask you, I want to

know your opinion about it. This is

real. And so you're about to interview

Dana White and you call him Joe Rogan.

You had to be embarrassed when you did

this. What's the story behind that? And

then the reason I ask you, I'm getting

here right now. You didn't know I was

going to ask you. So mine's worse than

yours. Okay. My And by the way, my clip

was more viral, but we both sit here as

two people who looked pretty damn funny

on the internet, right? And so a lot of

whatever each of you fear in your life

right now,

>> you'll be okay cuz we've both made this

mistake. What happened? Like what advice

would you give to somebody seriously

who's afraid? Cuz you and I I said

people live in caves 300 years ago and I

can manipulate time and I'm I'm not

crazy. You're like I just look like a

complete wing nut in this clip.

>> You don't look very favorable in that

clip. So what would you say about that?

>> Well, yeah. 10 years ago.

>> Great question. You didn't know that was

coming.

>> I I didn't. But as soon as you said the

embarrassing moments, I'm like, "Okay,

here we go." Cuz that was that's

probably number one.

>> Yeah, that was my number one

>> for Yeah. I mean, and that's okay. There

might be more to come. Who knows?

>> Oh, maybe it's live. Maybe our

interviews maybe it's in this.

>> Okay, first of all,

>> uh I Yeah, I've gotten crust for She

didn't even know who she was

interviewing. What? An idiot. Typical

broad sports.

>> Um I booked Dana. I've been friends with

Dana for years. As Dana sat down, um we

were chitchatting and chitchatting and

it's like finally like, okay, let's

start the interview because we could

talk all day. Um and he had a a a

protein can of prote whatever that drink

was. And so I asked him, I was like,

what is it? He's like, yeah, Joe Rogan

made it. And I was like, "Oh." And I

took a sip and it was good. And we kept

going. And then um

the viral moment was 90 minutes in. So

when people say she didn't know who she

was interviewing, I'm like, "Guys, this

happened at the end of the interview."

>> However, apparently I had said it

earlier after he did the drink thing cuz

he said Joe Rogan and so Joe Rogan's in

my mind. They work together. Dana hired

Joe. Like they look somewhat similar.

like stocky, muscular, bald white guys,

right?

>> Um

>> Dana Dana said it.

>> We all look alike.

>> Dana. Yeah. Hey, trust me. I hear that

all the time, you know. Um and so I

didn't know and Dana didn't know that I

said it earlier in the podcast after he

had said, "Yeah, this is Joe Rogan's

drink."

>> Got it.

>> Fast forward 90 minutes later. And it

was just a total brain fart from the

beginning of the episode when he I'm

like, Dana, this is your fault. You put

that name in my head. But

>> when I not I didn't even notice it until

he reacted and it was just the most

classic reaction and I won't quote him

for obvious reasons those of you who

have seen it but he's like she just call

me Joe Rogan

>> and I hit me and

>> the the feeling in my chest in my soul.

I started sweating everywhere. I was

like and he's a friend of mine but I

knew like you can't get out of this one.

>> And um

>> but that's great context. It's 90

minutes in.

>> It was at the end of the interview.

didn't know that you said you said the

beginning of the interview LIKE NO HOLD

ON LET ME clarify because the clips

there's never any context right and

that's how it is with yours

>> um and so

>> at that moment he goes did you just call

me did she just call did you just call

me and I go

>> I did

>> because what are you going to do like

say no I didn't

>> you know get your hearing checked no

like I and he and then he it went on and

on and on and then I but I tried to

change it like what is Dana fight

>> thinking, "Okay, I can edit that out. No

one will know." He wasn't having it. And

so, we were I mean, it was hysterical.

We're cracking up. Um,

>> we get done with the interview

>> and we were high-fiving and he's hugging

me and like we've known each other, so

it was literally fine.

>> Got it.

>> Um,

>> that was the first episode of the Sage

Steel Show.

>> No way.

>> I had taped a couple other ones, but I

wanted to do Dana first. It was the

biggest name I'd gotten up to that

point. Um, and it still kept my foot in

the door with some sports stuff, but

he's an entrepreneur and all those

things. And it's the Sage Deal Show. It

was my first episode. I have full

editorial control.

>> You could have taken it out.

>> I could have taken that out.

>> Ah,

>> if you can't laugh at yourself.

>> I totally agree.

>> For public consumption, you're in the

wrong business.

>> I totally agree with you. Yeah, I

totally agree. So when Dana um he told

me later

>> um he called me later right before and

he's like you're airing this first

right? I was like yeah yeah he goes

you're leaving that in you know you're

leaving that in and I was like of course

like I'm not going to if I'm not going

to let someone else come on my show and

edit stuff out which unless it was

something personal. No we're all come on

um then why would I do that for myself?

It's not fair.

>> I feel better because I did the same

thing when we were doing it. He's like

we can cut that go. No man leave it.

It's funny. I don't be that funny, but

it was funny.

>> Yes, that's the way to do things.

>> Okay, good. I do, by the way. I

>> And you're a pro more of a pro at this

than me. You've done a million more

shows than I have. I'm just saying like,

leave it in. And when you show people

that you're human,

>> like I feel like people appreciate you

more because they sometimes view us

correct

>> as like these robots and we never make

mistakes and everything's perfect. It's

like incorrect.

>> I'm the opposite of perfect.

>> Likewise. Likewise. That's why I asked

it. I'm so glad you see I get to clarify

again that it was the end of the

interview.

>> You're such a good sport because the

fact of the matter is I mine was editing

too. All right, last thing. By the way,

it's been so good.

>> I've had so much I don't I don't cry all

that often. You got me like I cry cried

right there. Like that was cry cry. Um

it's good now for you. So let's look at

the other side for a second. You're now

remarried, happy,

your career seems to be flourishing. I

assume everything in your family is

great. I know your dad's health. you

said wasn't great, but like take us to

the other side. Like is it somewhat

sweeter from the standpoint that you

know your whole life, marriage,

finances, career all goes away and now

you're you've got it back. God's been so

good to you and you've worked your you

know what off as well. What's it feel

like? Cuz the same people watch this. I

want to get to the other side. What's

that like?

>> My lawsuit settled. I was in a mediation

in a court in um Los Angeles, California

on August 14th, 2023.

>> And when it settled, I put my head on

the table and I just sobbed.

>> I sobbed.

>> I won. And I was so heartbroken that it

took that. And I haven't thought about

that moment often because it's hard to

even though it was like a good moment.

>> Yeah. But it was like, gosh, did it have

to come to this?

>> And now, what the hell am I going to do

with my life?

>> I worked up to the very end with the

pending lawsuit for 16 months every day.

I was still on TV. So, I couldn't afford

mentally. I didn't have the energy.

>> Wow.

>> Um, or the ability mentally to focus on

what's next because I was still on live

TV every day until that day.

>> And I didn't know where to go. I didn't

know what to do. I thought about another

show some at some point to try it on my

own, but never to do it on my own. Like

I thought I'd work for someone and

they'd help me with the show.

And I just remember getting back on that

plane and just to go back to the East

Coast. I lived in Connecticut where ESPN

was and like what's next?

>> So, you know, it's amazing how how God

works. Um,

two days later I went on Megan Kelly's

show. We had the same attorney. If you

ever get cancelled, we I have an

attorney for you guys. Megan Kelly, me,

he's Tucker Carlson's. Um, Chris

Harrison, my dear friend who married us

four months ago, who was canceled from

The Bachelor, the host of The Bachelor

and what he went through.

>> Brian Freriedman is your attorney, trust

me.

>> Good to know.

>> Um, and he had had conversations. I went

on Bill Maher's show about a month after

I settled and when I was on his show

again, Diversity of Thought, right? He

brought me on and during the podcast

he's like, you know, you need to do a

podcast under my network. I think you're

great. You and I was like, whatever. He

sits there, drinks, and gets high his

entire podcast. He's not going to

remember that he's saying this. And we

get off the air and he says it again and

he meant it. So somehow I go from

fear that day sobbing on the table after

I settled with Disney to an offer from

Bill Maher to be the first podcast of

his new startup network, Club Random.

Um, and he brought me on and here we go.

We have a man who thinks completely

differently than me that's giving me a

platform to do my to do this H Steel

Show and he's going to run it for me and

everything else. Ended up leaving a lot

of changes with him and we're still

friends. It's great. I I really respect

him. um left and went, "Okay, now what

am I gonna do?

>> I gota I'll just wait for the right

person to come." And I had some

potentials out there for some networks

who were gonna bring on my show and do

all the advertising and all the stuff

that overwhelms me with this space. And

it took longer than I wanted. And then

they came and I realized, wait a minute,

I've had to keep myself alive.

>> Yeah.

>> Financially, to do these shoots, to

travel, to to find a crew and lighting

and editing on my own.

>> Wow. Why am I now going to give it away

to somebody? Let me just try to build

because if nothing else, I know that

it's not going to kill me. I'm going to

fall on my face again probably,

>> you know, a thousand more times. But

what I learned through this process,

even when the world says you're done,

>> you still get back up. So, I kept it

going and now, yeah, am on my own. And I

just I honestly like I could never I

never wanted this. I never wanted to do

it on my own because I was afraid afraid

of taking on this challenge of running

your own business and I I suck at it.

Like I'm really bad. I'm like I'm

definitely the creative and I was a

producer before I was ever on air. Like

let me do that. And now I have, you

know, a nice small team of people who

are helping me. And when I say small, I

mean my husband who is a former CEO in

corporate America. He knows what he

knows how to run a business. Thank

goodness. And then two other people who

are like my my family, my teammates. Um,

so I'm I'm I'm learning and letting go

with that. Still so much fear every

single day. And on January 1st, 2024,

exactly two years ago, um, you know, I I

got all all three of my kids off to

college. I never thought I'd be 51,

52 years old, alone.

>> And

I met my first husband when I was 20 in

college. So from 20 first boyfriend 20

to 47 that's all I ever knew.

>> Clueless. Clueless in that whole world.

So went on a couple dates. Awful. I'm

like I'm an idiot. This is terrible. And

on January 1st, 2024, I live down in

Fort Lauderdale and I got in the water

in the ocean and I said, "Lord,

please take control." And I said, "From

a personal perspective, I hope I'm not

alone, but it's up to you." And I said,

"Please don't bring me anybody until you

bring me somebody

>> and just make it really clear because

I'm an idiot."

>> And that was January 1st, 2024.

When I say it was like the Sahara Desert

from January 1st to November 12th, 2024.

Not a not a phone call, not a text, not

anybody sliding into my DMs, not a

nothing. Not a date, not a nothing. Bad

grammar. until that night at a charity

event for veterans in Nashville,

Tennessee, where I wasn't supposed to

be. I just come off the campaign trail

with Trump and I was tired and I

canceled a speech. First time I've ever

canceled anything. It was at my kids

college. I knew I could reschedule it.

And I went with my girlfriend to this

charity event for veterans. And this man

walks up to me and says, "Hi, my name is

Dave. You don't know me, but we have a

lot in common." Mhm.

>> And I'm thinking, uh,

what line is he going to throw at me?

I've heard them all.

>> His mother and my mother 32 years ago in

Levvenworth, Kansas, where our fathers

were stationed in the military,

volunteered at a convent for retired

nuns, and stayed friends for 32 years,

and we had never met.

>> What? And when he walks up to me at this

charity event on November 12th, 2024,

>> saying that not only did our mothers do

something that involved God,

>> nuns, nuns who were part of our

families, like came to holiday dinners,

watched my brothers play basketball.

Dave and my brother Chad played

basketball against each other in high

school. I was in college. I'm three

years older. He was in high school. We

had never met. And 32 years later at a

charity event, he walks up to me.

>> He'd been married for 17 years, two

kids. I'd been married for 20 years,

three kids. That night I knew.

>> You knew?

>> Yeah.

>> God is so good.

>> We were engaged 5 months later to the

day and and married less than 10 months

total. So September 5th, 2025

>> after meeting November of 24. So um I'm

sorry that's a long story. I needed you

to know that because I knew you'd

appreciate it.

>> A great story.

>> But like it's not too long. I

gave up control

of that aspect of my life, too.

>> And didn't know what I was doing anyway.

I was so clueless. Like my 21-year-old

daughter, the one guy I dated between

divorce and meeting Dave, I was we had

just started dating and I was sending

returning a text and my daughter who was

21 at the time, she looked at me and

she's like, "Let me see that." She's

like, "Are you going to send that?"

She's like, "You don't know how to do.

You don't know what you're doing. I've

dated more people than you. Delete.

Delete. I'm going to rewrite this and

now wait two hours. And I'm like, is

that what this world is? So that's I'm

so clueless. And so like I literally had

no idea. That's why I was like, Lord,

Jesus, take the wheel. You know,

>> and so I look at that and and you know

what?

>> What if?

>> Yeah.

>> What if I hadn't canceled that speech

and reschedled it that night,

>> my kids understood? What if I had never

stood up to Disney?

>> What if I had kept my mouth shut about

that shot they made me take? I wouldn't

be here talking to you because I'd still

be sitting like this robotic in a chair

>> and making a lot of money and doing

great, right? And being happy because I

got to tell sports stories.

>> I would never have met Dave and my kids

right now. what they are gaining from

having me around more to be there to

help them move into their dorm in

college because I would have had to ask

for vacation time before to be there for

my parents dealing with their health

journeys right now

>> to have met him

>> like I have no words and I hope and pray

people like listen to your gut because

we usually know what the right thing is

>> and beautiful things come from the ashes

I'll never forget the head on the table

crying after I settled with Disney I'll

I never forget being in that bed with a

terrible case of

>> COVID

>> after taking the shot that was going to

prevent it and people sending death

threats.

>> Like all those things brought me to this

beautiful new life. So take a chance on

yourself.

>> Believe you're going to get back up and

don't take so long to talk to God about

it.

>> Like he's just waiting for us. I hate

that it took me so long, but the good

thing is is that my kids saw and now

it's not taken them as long. It won't

take them half a century.

>> They're there

>> and I'm like, thank thank God for all

the crap.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you for doing this. You just

reminded me why I do the show.

>> Thanks for making me cry.

>> Yeah, you made me cry. You know what

that today reminded me why I do the

show. Sometimes you just you know what I

mean? you're doing this was

extraordinary. You're amazing.

>> Thank you for having me on and allowing

me to

>> share and to clarify Dana White Joe

Rogan.

>> I mean it.

>> He calls me, he literally sends me a

clip once a month and he's like, "Look,

this one has 20 million views." And he

always says to me, he's like, "I'm so

proud of you because most people would

have cut that out. It's the best

business decision you could have made."

>> You never know, maybe Joe Rogan and Dana

White lived in a cave together 300 years

ago. 300 years ago.

>> It's possible.

>> It is possible. If you manipulate time

enough, they could live in that cave.

>> She's good. You talk about full circle

there.

>> Yeah, that was pretty good. You're

awesome. This was so good today. I just

pray everybody stayed to the end and

heard the entire bow put around the

story. Where do you want them to go see

you? Sage Steel Show. Is that where they

should go?

>> Sage Steel Show on YouTube and wherever

you get your podcast.

>> Okay.

>> Do you do Patreon?

>> No. Do you?

>> Well, I I'm trying.

>> It's where you generate the big bucks,

what they tell me. That's what I Well,

you already you already have the big

bucks, Mr.

>> Uh, no, Patreon. I have a young Patreon

channel. Okay. Um, but Instagram, like I

am super myself on Instagram, too, which

can be I'm very much an idiot a lot,

too. Um, and Facebook. Yeah, I'm I'm

learning all of these different

platforms still. Like, I'm such a rookie

in this, so I'll take all the advice I

can get from you.

>> I'm here to help you.

>> Thank you.

>> You're awesome. This was an unbelievable

conversation. You're welcome for this

one, everybody. This was darn good. Make

sure you follow her. Make sure you share

the episode. And I want to tell you, God

bless you. Max out your life.