I can't turn off the noise, and if I saw

myself in a mirror, I'd slam my head

into the mirror and just keep slamming

it until it make it go away. But, that's

why I disappeared, but it's not the only

reason why I disappeared.

Magic couldn't fix me.

Dynamo, illusionist, magician

extraordinaire.

Are you watching closely?

Was there a moment you look back on and

say that was my rock bottom?

The 6th of November, 2020. Cuz that was

the day when I tried to kill myself.

Your wife found you unconscious.

In the dog bed.

Magic's always been the thing that has

given me hope, that I've used to

overcome the bullying, overcome the

racist abuse, and the lack of belief.

And it made me stand out in a DIFFERENT

WAY.

DYNAMO!

SHOUT OUT TO MY HOMEBOY DYNAMO.

Everything you touch is turning into

gold, and you become the sensation. And

then in 2017, you stop suddenly.

I got really sick. I couldn't hold the

cards anymore. My body was

deteriorating.

And then at that same time, your

grandmother had passed away, who was

your biggest supporter. I'd also heard

that you had had a legal dispute, which

meant that you could no longer use the

name Dynamo.

I had so many problems, but I couldn't

figure out how to even solve one of

them. I thought if I'm not here, then

everybody else might be happier.

I realized then that Dynamo as we know

it needed to die. And I'm finally

feeling it again. Now, I just need to

get magic back in my life.

Dynamo, or should I say Steven, is there

some magic you can show me right now?

What?

Oh my god.

I've never shared this before,

but 3 years ago, Dynamo walked up to me

when I was at a Christmas party. I'd

never met him before, and he whispered

something in my ear that quite frankly

stopped me in my tracks that I could not

believe. I knew Dynamo was this

incredible online magician, and what he

said to me that day, I was unable to

forget. He was in a dark dark place. He

was engaged in a legal battle and he

just lost the rights to use his own

name. He could no longer call himself

Dynamo. He was no longer able or allowed

to do magic.

And this stranger that had walked over

to me at that Christmas party was

suffering in a way that I've never seen

before.

And just a week ago, Dynamo text me and

said it's finally time to tell my story.

And that is what you're going to hear

today.

The story he whispered in my ear at that

Christmas party all those years ago.

Where has Dynamo been?

What happened?

And what happens next?

And before this episode starts, I want

to make a deal with you. About 58% of

you that watch this podcast frequently

haven't yet hit the subscribe button. If

you enjoy what we do here, here's the

deal that I want to make with you. If

you hit that subscribe button, I promise

you that we will keep making this show

better in every single way. And we have

huge plans to turn this into more of a

documentary style conversation, where we

work incredibly hard to bring in footage

of the things we're talking about to

give you greater context and greater

meaning. So, if you hit the subscribe

button, I promise you that we will

deliver an even greater version of this

show.

I hope you choose to come along on this

journey. Enjoy this episode.

Dynamo,

or should I say Steven?

My friends, you can call me whatever you

like.

Steven,

in researching your story, I've been

surprised, inspired, shocked,

but in many ways,

it's given me the context I think that

was missing as to how a man like you

committed their life to magic.

For people that don't know your story,

your earliest years, and the context

back there in Bradford in 1982,

what is the context that we need to

understand in order to understand

you?

I think

ultimately

it's the force that

sometimes magic is found in the most

unlikely places.

And

I was a kid in a counselor state with

no hopes, no kind of

not much family around me,

no real direction.

And if anything

I should never have amounted to

anything.

So for me

just trying to

not be confined by my environment, by my

circumstances

is the magic I've been searching for my

life.

And hopefully

I can

use the magic I've now found to inspire

others who might find themselves trapped

in a similar position.

Bradford, 1982, you you said you didn't

have a lot of family around you.

Mhm.

What family did you have and not have

around you?

I mean, I was I just born, so you know,

I can't remember exactly everything from

literally '82. But from say '80

from '86

I believe that was when my dad went to

jail.

So

he wasn't around any longer.

Um

my mom

was there, but she she had me really

young, but she would have been about

she'll have been about 20 then. So a

young mom um losing

you know, losing her her partner who

would have been raising me with her.

So your mom had you at 16?

Yeah, she was she was pregnant at 16.

Okay. Was there

racial issues

in your childhood?

Cuz I think you're Are you biracial?

Yeah, yeah. My father's Pathan, my mom's

English.

Okay. Pathan, I'm not familiar.

Yeah. It's a it's a tribe. Um

it's there's parts of it in Afghanistan,

parts of it in Pakistan, parts of it's

kind of scattered around the world.

You must have been what, 4 years old

when he went to prison?

Yeah.

Did you understand what that meant?

No.

No, not at all. I uh

I remember him going out and then just

never coming back.

It wasn't till I was a little older that

I kind of understood

that he'd gone away and why he'd gone

away and you know,

and I kind of

It's weird.

Like I was young enough

that

not having him around became a normal

thing. Like not having a father, you

know, I was on a council estate where

other people didn't have fathers around

or mothers or you know, we had a lot of

broken families. So for me

it became just a normal way of life. I

think if I'd have been a bit older and

had more chance to understand more and

miss more then it would have maybe been

harder.

Did you resent him?

At that age when you started to realize

what you had

lost in a father?

I think if I'm honest, I resented him

more as an adult.

As I got older, like I resented him more

when

I first met him properly after, you

know, like when I'm I'm he

He came to

uh Revolution Wine Bar in Bradford.

And this was when I was 19 years old.

And I'd started to make a little bit of

a name for myself with my magic. Right

then, you know, I had um

I'd I think I was applying for like

Prince's Trust start-up loan and all

that sort of thing. I was I was

basically, you know, starting to

go somewhere that was positive in my

life.

And

I got called by the manager of

Revolution saying, "Oh, there's a

gentleman that says he's your dad." He

said, "Come to see you." He said, "I'm

from dad."

And I'm like, that's weird because like

I don't really feel like I've got a dad.

So, I'm like, okay, this is strange. And

then

I said, oh, well, just tell him I'm busy

right now, but if he wants to come in in

a couple of days time when I'm not

working cuz I was getting ready to do a

set at the bar. I perform magic,

basically, in Revolution bar.

And

he came back a few days later.

And I mean, he kind of looked like me,

so I kind of knew it was true.

You know, I asked my mom about it and

she explained, you know,

but yeah, he's he's not in jail anymore

and he's been out and he's been asking

about you. He's I think he tried to call

my mom a few times. He's called my nan

on his phone as well.

And they'd always just kind of, you

know, they they saw what I was getting

all my life and I'd got used to a life

without him in it. So,

they felt that it was best for me to not

have him in my life.

And then

when I met him

it was so strange

because

he basically

said, but you've you've got a, you know,

you're see you've got a little crew

around you.

Do any of your your friends want to help

shift some

stuff for me?

And when I say stuff, I'm not talking

about legal stuff.

And at that point, I was just like, wow,

you know, he's

he's clearly not been reformed and I

don't feel like he's the sort of person

I need in my life right now cuz

I've spent a lot of my life trying to

avoid this type of environment.

How long had it been since you'd seen

him at that moment?

This was when I was 19, so

from say four

years old.

So, you hadn't seen him for like 15

years and the first time he sees you, he

offers to he asks you to help him shift

some drugs.

Yeah. Not just drugs, but yeah.

I'm trying to figure out what else it

could be if it's not drugs.

Okay.

He was into other stuff, lots of stuff,

you know. Um

And

you know, that's that's the life some

people choose, you know what I mean?

Like um I didn't know him enough to to

to have a

to be able to say whether he was a good

man or a bad man because, you know, end

of the day

just because you do that sort of stuff

doesn't necessarily ultimately make you

a bad person. It can be the

circumstances that

lead you into that world.

Mhm.

Um

but

at the time in my life

you know

I'd been getting some incredible support

from Mapper Youth Centre in Bradford. I

basically

was surrounded by for the first time in

my life positive role models from you

know, positive male role models.

And part of me

hoped that when I saw my dad

that he could be one of those.

But

I think I was too far gone in the other

direction and he was going in a

different direction and it just wasn't

meant to be and

you know

I I

I think then I just became indifferent.

I just thought, "Well, you know what?

I've gone this far without a father.

So, I don't really need one now.

Resentment.

Mhm.

Was that because you were still holding

out hope that he was someone else or

where where did the resentment come from

in that moment? You said that's when you

resented him the most.

Because I think he they he had in front

of him an opportunity to connect with

me.

And he saw a different opportunity in

that moment.

He cared more about using you as a

vehicle to sell drugs.

Yeah.

Are you still holding on to pain?

Oh, yeah. 100%.

There's going to be parts of that that

will never be closed off uh because um

sadly he's not alive anymore.

People often say to me when I speak to

them on this podcast about parents that

they've lost that

when we lose someone it often changes

our perspective on them and the

situation and often that the issue that

held us apart.

When your mum came to you and told you

that he had now passed away, is there

anything you look back on and go with

that new perspective now that he's gone

and go do you know what

this would have been a

probably a different or a better way of

handling the situation. Is there any

regrets there at all?

I can't really have regrets personally

because

the circumstance I was in was not of my

making, you know.

Um

I was told by by my grandma

that and my auntie as well, my auntie

Mel, they both they both would tell me

passionately

how much my mum and dad loved each

other.

But there was also an element that they

said it's a good job that he went away

because if he'd have not gone away, it's

highly likely that my mum and my and me

would have been dead

because he was apparently very abusive.

And

to your mother?

Yeah.

Did Did you ever know this? Did you ever

see this?

No, I was like I wasn't really I think

it was more before I was born and then,

you know, I think

yeah, I was too young to really

understand it.

Like I've my mum's told me about stuff

more recently.

And you know, my auntie and as I've been

like you know, uncovering things about

myself

like I've asked more questions.

What have you been trying to figure out

about yourself?

A lot of things the last few years um

the

point in my existence ultimately.

If we go back to the the rest of the

context there um from those early years,

what were you like socially in school

and

we were

Did you like school?

Mhm.

I like learning.

I like trying to understand things.

But

did I like school?

I was scared of school.

Why?

Just cuz I used to get beat up all the

time.

Like it was school for me was painful.

But it wasn't the learning aspect of it.

It was getting

to and from the lessons, you know,

surviving the playground.

Like that for me was difficult because

I went to a school that was

predominantly uh

you know

a more white school, so it's let's say,

and

you know, I was getting to an age where

my complexion started to show, so it was

obvious that I wasn't fully English.

So it was a lot harder to hide because

I was told when I lived on the estate,

you know, I was recommended by

everybody, you know

by my mom, by my nan,

by

just anybody who was was close to my

family at the time, if anybody asks,

just say you're white.

You know, it was kind of ingrained

in where we lived

to hate anything that is different.

I read about a story where someone threw

you into a river. Have you?

Oh, yeah, the dam. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that was um

So one of the estates I lived on, I

lived on quite a few council estates in

Bradford, where depending on where my

mom's boyfriends lived or girlfriends um

at the time. So

So I remember

there's Delph Hill estate

and then there's Woodside estate and

separating them is a big massive field

and in the middle of the field is a dam.

And it was where like all the cool kids

would kind of go to hang out.

And

I wasn't one of the cool kids.

But

like one time I got invited down there.

So I thought, oh, amazing, you know, I'm

finally being accepted.

And when I got there, they only invited

me down there to kind of throw me in the

dam, but I knew I couldn't swim. Like I

didn't I didn't have a

an adult to teach me how to swim till I

didn't learn to swim till I was like,

you know, 14, 15.

So they threw me in the dam and

it was one of the most traumatizing

experiences I'd felt at that time.

Thankfully there was one guy on the

estate, Wayne Jewitt,

um who basically dived in and helped me

out and

you know, he was a really good swimmer.

He could he could um get me to safety.

And

yeah, like stuff like that happened all

the time though. It wasn't like

you know, I can remember that because I

couldn't swim and if you've ever

experienced that panic that you get when

you, you know, when you feel like you're

drowning, that will stay with you.

Mhm.

Um you know, I don't like going, you

know,

I don't like going into the sea and

stuff like that, you know,

like getting into water in general is

not my favorite thing.

You and me both. I can't swim either, so

I remember the first time I nearly

drowned and I remember the person that

jumped in and saved me when I was a kid

as well. Remember it like it was

yesterday.

Mhm. So

Yeah. So like that experience happened,

you know, it

it happened on the way to school, it

happened after school, you know.

So for me

the the thought of going to school

was always like a daunting notion.

There were certain teachers like Mrs.

Wilcox, you know, like uh she was my

English teacher and she was really nice

and

she was really nurturing.

And I didn't feel

stupid in front of her because of if in

a lot of the classes

when

you know, when the teacher's asking you

to get involved,

I was so nervous of other people's

opinions in the class that if I spoke

up, if I if I put my hand up to answer a

question, and that it was wrong, then

that just was going to lead to more

getting beaten up harder after school,

or you know, more ridicule.

So,

I kind of kept myself to myself, but at

the same time,

I was just like this

this like sad little kid kid

who would take the long way home, so I

didn't get beat up.

I remember speaking to Israel Adesanya,

who was the UFC world champion,

and him telling me a very similar story

about taking the long way round school

so that he would avoid the bullies on

the playground, and

all of those things. Again, in his

situation, it was heavily racially

motivated. He had was this kid that had

flown to New Zealand from Africa. He was

the black kid, and so he was

he ultimately turns to fighting as a way

to help him

survive.

Yeah, I mean, he's he's very good at it.

I saw him fight him.

He's he's amazing.

Well, I I think about your story, and I

go,

in a way, didn't did you turn to magic

as a way to help you to survive?

Ultimately, that's where it ended up,

but

I didn't turn to magic. Magic kind of

found me,

cuz it was never something I was into

initially.

It was something that my grandpa used to

do.

He'd do tricks here and there, you know,

little like the sort of things you see a

guy doing in a pub, you know, nothing

like super amazing. But, to me,

he was like

kind of the main male role model in my

life,

and

he was always the life of the party, you

know, and

he seemed to have an answer to every

single problem.

And one day, when he's picking up from

school, like he saw the sort of things

that was happening to me, and I never

knew he saw this, but, you know, he'd

always get to the school playground

early, so, you know, so he didn't want

to be late for picking me up. And often

I'd walk out the door and straight away

I'd kind of get in a fight or get, you

know, get caught up in something.

And he'd kind of stay back. He never

really got involved, but he saw it kind

of be quite bad one day, and when he was

walking home he's telling me he's going

to like show me some things, you know,

that might help me. And I'm thinking,

oh, yeah, it's going to be like Karate

Kid, you know, Mr. Miyagi, you know,

like but it wasn't any of that stuff. He

He's

He showed me magic and he says,

you know, these things that they get me

positive attention when I'm out and

about, when I share these things. So

maybe maybe try these.

And

I was scared at school about trying them

because I'm like thinking, well, I'm

already seen as this weirdo, this

outcast.

Like how is

No, you know, he's he's sharing magic

with people cuz magic wasn't like a cool

thing.

Thankfully,

it made me stand out in a different way,

and it deflected attention

from me.

And there was definitely some people

that,

you know,

shunned it, didn't like it, but there

was enough people that thought it was

interesting and, you know,

kind of kind of cool that it got people

off my back.

That was really where the magic began.

Properly, that's before that point.

It was

you know, it was something that I was

using

to deflect attention from the other

areas of my life that I was trying to

hide.

It's um it's quite remarkable how many

times I've heard

similar stories about someone finding a

way to belong through a craft or through

singing or through acting, whatever it

might be, and then them committing their

life to that. It's almost like they

become

addicted to it in some way. And it I

guess the issue is when you ask yourself

the question

what am I now without it?

Do I therefore not belong if I don't do

magic?

Mhm. Yeah, I know that feeling

all too well.

I'm sure we're going to come to that.

Um

about 13 years old in '95, you're

diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which is

very young, I believe, to be diagnosed

with Crohn's disease,

which is a lifelong disease. Um

It's like a severe inflammation related

to irritable bowel syndrome from what I

understand.

Yeah.

And it can be life-threatening as well.

Yeah, yeah. Um I've had a a few moments

where I've had life like

life-threatening operations.

How does that change the picture at 13

years old with that diagnosis? And what

led up to that diagnosis?

Well,

before the diagnosis,

I'd got to, you know, my teenage years

where you you know, you kind of start to

have changes, right? You go into

puberty.

And

I was definitely like a bit of a slow

starter. I was still, you know, all the

kids at school were getting bigger and I

was getting smaller. I wasn't getting

smaller, but they they were getting

bigger and I was just basically wasn't

really kind of

growing

growing at the same rate. And my mom

started to

take me to the hospital to get tests

done to try and figure out, you know,

what was up with me.

Which

I understand

why my mom would do that,

but at the same time,

for a kid who feels like they don't

belong,

to then be taken to hospital to have

tests done on me

to figure out what's wrong with me,

like suddenly I'm like, well, all right.

I don't belong and I've got something

wrong with me. I mean, this is, you

know, like what is the point in me,

you know,

you I broken? Do you know what I mean?

So,

I mean, there clearly there clearly was

issues

um

and they found my Crohn's disease.

And I guess

now I feel that's quite a it's an

incredibly good thing to have done. The

problem was back then

there wasn't enough known about Crohn's

as there is now.

Right.

The doctors understand it a lot more.

They understand how to treat it and

people are a lot more open to, you know,

to it.

You know, essentially

it's an illness that affects your bowels

which ultimately

affects,

you know,

And and how your body digests things and

that's not the sort of topics that, you

know,

are that easy to talk about um

especially when you're you know, a

teenager going through your formative

years, you know.

Is there a lot of pain associated with

Crohn's disease?

Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Stomach cramps um

you know, it's

I mean,

if I don't take my medication and I'm on

it at the moment, I can struggle to walk

or to even get out of bed.

Really?

Every day. Yeah.

It's like having

a

a wound inside your tummy.

And it's like an open wound.

And every time you eat, you essentially

it's like rubbing dirt into an open

wound. So, it's never going to heal.

It's going to constantly keep getting

infected and it's going to constantly

keep being inflamed.

And because it's inside you,

like, you know, your gut affects

every part of your body, you know? So,

and then

it has side effects which one of those

is one of the side effects is reactive

arthritis which is what I suffer from

where if my Crohn's flares up, which can

be brought on from simple things like

just just everyday stress. Like or to

You don't have to just eat something for

it to be bad. Like you can

you can have a stressful day and it can,

you know,

give you a stomach ache, which then can

ultimately spread to the rest of your

body and make you feel debilitated. And

that if you've got reactive arthritis,

it means that all your joints start to

seize up and ache. Um hence why

sometimes I struggle to walk and kind of

function. And you know, you you kind of

need your mobility

to be a good magician. So, you know, for

me when Yeah, when that happens

it stops me from being able to perform

the way that that I've kind of grown to

love.

And that will then have knock-on effects

to the psychological

Yeah, and every case of Crohn's is

different, you know, it affects people

in different ways, but but ultimately,

yeah, it Imagine stomach having stomach

ache just all the time.

And being scared to eat because

you don't want to,

you know, eat something and it it ruin

the it to it wipe you out for the rest

of the day.

Right.

So, you um

you go to this new sixth form college.

You end up dropping out of college

because you decide you want to pursue

magic full-time.

And then you go off to America

where you stayed with your grandmother

in America. By the age of sort of 17

years old, you have that operation for

your Crohn's, which removes part of your

stomach. And then at sort of 20 years

old, you end up back in London.

And that's when you started to sort of

gain a following for your performances

online. I think, you know, most of us

saw that chapter of your life, I

believe, most of us, um through videos

on social media,

stuff on TV, and all of that. And from

there on, it really looks like your

career starts to take off.

Because I I was looking through

your biography and at 22 years old, you

receive an invitation to to perform at

the United States Super Bowl. By 29

years old, you have your own TV show

called Dynamo Magician Impossible. And

then that shows a smash hit.

Wins all these awards, best

entertainment program.

Is that really in your view where things

started to take off? You're 29 years

old, 30 years old.

Everything you touch is turning to gold,

and you become this kind of sensation.

I guess that depends on what you class

as like what is success, Mhm. right?

Because for me

the the beginning of success where

things started to take off

was when I got my Prince's Trust

business startup loan.

You were what, when you were 16 or

something? Or

No, I was a bit I was older. It was um

it was 2002.

So you're 20?

Mhm. Like before that point

I thought one day I'm going to have to

go up.

Or one day I'm going to have to get, you

know, get like

a real job.

Yeah. Yeah.

say, right?

Yeah. Like yeah, you know, I think right

up until uh

you know, right up until like

my grandpa died and and

my nana passed, you know, I think they

were still thinking that I might get

come up come home one day and say, "Oh,

I've got a proper job now."

When was that?

Uh my grandpa died in 2012, right? And

he he died in the middle of my second

series of of Magician Impossible.

So

he got to see

some of his

like the way he nurtured me and helped

me and shared that magic, he got to see

some of that magic get brought to life

on screen. So I was that's probably one

of my proudest moments.

But then my uh my nana

um sadly she passed in the last couple

of years. Um I don't think

I think anybody really knows about my

nana passing um outside of, you know, my

family and my friends.

Um and

for me like

my nana was my biggest supporter

for everything.

But I know that she was always worried

about me cuz she always

thought that this magic thing wouldn't

work out and she wanted me to have

something to fall back on.

You know, when I dropped out of college

to pursue magic as you know, as that's

just all I wanted to do.

You know, she was very worried. She was

She was the one trying to tell me that I

should not fall out. I need to get you

know, get an education and

in many respects, you know, the advice

she was giving was you know, was good

advice.

But

luckily

things kind of turned out all right for

the in the magic.

I mean, it turned out all right. It's

quite an understatement. You were

magician of the year multiple times. The

TV show Magician Impossible then won the

TV Choice Awards as best entertainment

show. You ended that Dynamo's Magician

Impossible show after its fourth season

I believe.

And then you embarked on your first live

tour called Seeing is Believing. And

then in when you're 35 years old in 2017

you stopped that tour suddenly.

Yeah, I think that the tour kind of

run its course.

We we did it. We We did over like, you

know, we we did a lot of countries and a

lot of tickets and it was amazing. You

know, I'm I like trying pushing the

envelope with magic and with everything

I do.

And I felt like

that time

on the road

gave me time to have a lot of new ideas.

And I felt like I wanted to try and

bring some of those ideas to life. But

some of those ideas had to get put on

hold cuz it was shortly after that but I

got really sick with my Crohn's.

What happened?

Just got uh food poisoning and that gave

me a

uh campylobacter to

um food poisoning which basically is

like probably the worst type of food

poisoning you can get.

And that combined with my Crohn's was a

recipe for disaster. So,

basically I was in hospital. I

I just remember

it was like 10:00.

I was getting ready to go to bed and I

went to the bathroom.

And

I had this like

horrible feeling in my stomach. But I've

got Crohn's, so like I'm used to kind of

having to numb these these feelings, you

know, I'm used to just thinking, "Okay,

it's going to be uncomfortable for like

half an hour and then it'll pass."

Right?

And it wasn't going away and then

suddenly

like

blood was coming out of my mouth. I was

vomiting. I was Blood was coming out of

both sides.

Like that's Yeah. Uh

And I didn't know what to do. Like it

would it wouldn't stop. I was in so much

pain.

Um I was screaming at my wife like and

literally I got rushed to hospital.

And they gave me, you know, they gave me

all the medications to try and you know,

they put me on the drip and give

morphine everything and nothing was

getting rid of the pain. Like I'd never

felt a pain like it.

And I just did not understand what it

was. Like

and

what because of that

it caused my Crohn's to kind of

even though I'd so much of my Crohn's

cut out already in the previous

operations it caused it to spread into a

different part of my bowel.

And

from that

came the reactive arthritis because

in the part of the bowel that it moved

to had different side effects that I'd

never had before.

Mhm.

Like I remember like

just getting these sensations where I,

you know,

I'd got kind of over the

you know, a few months later I'd I'm I'm

over the like food poisoning element of

it, you know, I'm I'm out of hospital.

I'm kind of

you know, trying to get on with my life.

But,

I'd

be

holding my cards, you know, I'd be

doing, you know,

magic like things that you know, stuff

that I do in my sleep, right?

But, suddenly I was getting like

shooting pains in my joints and I was it

was like electric shocks I was having I

couldn't hold the cards anymore.

I was struggling to move, you know, like

I'd be in a seat I won't be able to get

up because like my knees would be like

like stuck.

And I'd never had that experience before

and

I

I suddenly felt like Mr. Burns, you

know, from The Simpsons.

Mhm.

You know, like he seems really like

frail and weak.

And

I felt like I was, you know, I was

I wasn't old. I was like I felt like I

should be in my prime, you know what I

mean?

And I couldn't understand it. I felt

like my body was deteriorating

around me and

so

I went

basically on medical trials for the next

few years. Um

and the thing is with medical trials is

that when you try a new medicine,

you have to try it for 3 months before

the doctors will s- write that off as

not working

and try on a new medication.

But, there was times when

I knew within the first 2 weeks it

wasn't working, but I had to go the full

3 months.

And in those 3 months, you know, my

symptoms weren't getting better. If

anything, they'd get worse.

And it, you know, it wasn't till

we got to

the

9th month

where

I started this medication called

infliximab

where you have to go to the hospital

every few weeks and you get put on a

drip for you need to sit there for like

8 hours and they basically put this

medicine inside you.

And that really had an incredible

effect. Like that gave me a new lease of

life. I felt stronger of I probably felt

stronger than I'd felt before I was on

it. But then

COVID happened.

Um

it stopped my infliximab from working.

So suddenly

I mean 2020

and I'm on medical trials again.

And I tried um you know

I tried and so many different

medications and it's it was

it wasn't until like

the

beginning of 2021 where I really

got one that was really working

properly.

Um and even now I'm on that but it's

still I still have like I have 3 days a

week where I'm really bad.

Where my joints just don't really work

that well. Um and my Crohn's my stomach

feels bad. But yeah, that that was a big

part of the reason why

I

kind of I guess disappeared for a while.

But it's not the only reason why you

disappeared for a while.

Yeah, I think um

everything that

my body was going through everything I

was going through the pressures of you

know

trying you like wanting to do magic and

the pressures of trying to sustain a

career and live up to people's

expectations

um was almost an impossible task to do

whilst I was trying to fix my body. And

ultimately

it you know

I

ended up in a situation where

without magic, without being able to do

what I loved not knowing if I was ever

going to be able to get it back

made me think

what's the point in my existence, and

I think

my body was

kind of

imploding,

and so was my mind.

What was going on in your mind?

I didn't know what to do with my life.

Didn't know what to do with myself.

Um

there's a lot of things that I don't

want to

fully go into, so

but I'll try and, you know, be as

give you as much as I can.

There was just so much noise in my head.

And

I hated myself for feeling how I felt.

I hated

the my way my body felt because of, you

know, because of everything I was

dealing with.

If I saw myself in a mirror

in my house,

I hated what was looking back at me. I

hated it so much that I slammed my head

into the mirror and just keep slamming

it to try and just

either, you know,

make it go away.

And

yeah, I remember I didn't

I didn't want to be alive because I

didn't feel like

the life I had.

Take away all the the success and, you

know, that side of things.

I wasn't

I wasn't

living because I wasn't able to do

the thing I loved the most, which was

magic.

And

it was

it was a time in my life where

I felt

that

magic

couldn't fix me.

But magic's always been the thing

that has given me hope.

That I've kind of

used to

overcome the bullying, overcome

the

self-doubt and the lack of belief from

others and then my and then in my own

self.

And

suddenly

I'm in a position where

I don't know what to do with myself

and magic isn't going to fix it.

And I can't

I can't until I'm fixed I can't

do the thing that gives me a reason and

gives me a purpose.

In performing magic, I can't do that

because

I'm not mentally or physically

capable.

How long did that

that last?

I'm still dealing with it now, to be

honest.

Like it

it's difficult because

I'm

a magician.

All right?

And to everybody else

looking at me as a magician

I'm someone who does the impossible.

I'm someone who

kind of should be able to do anything.

But

I'm a magician

who can't who felt like, you know, back

then and you know

and still at times now

I'm a magician

who

feels like I can't do

the first thing

that a magician needs to do perform

magic.

So then

I'm just an impostor. I

can't

live up to

the expectations

that

people have of me.

And it's not that I

I'm not the sort of person who like

searches for validation from other

people, you know, like I mean

you know, magic is not an art form that

is

seen as the coolest thing ever. Do you

know what I mean? It's it you know

I just set myself up to fail if if you

know if

by by following through with magic um if

I'd have been naive to that point. Do

you know what I mean? And I know that

magic's never been cool, right? And

you know, I hope that in some small way

I've helped to make it feel a bit cooler

than maybe what it was perceived as.

But magic's the only thing that I'm good

at.

And

I think

the way that I can

manipulate my body and you know

kind of handle cards and do the things

is a big part of what's made my magic

unique and feel special.

And not being able to do that

kills me.

Am I right in thinking that at that same

time your grandmother had passed away

who was your biggest supporter

your body was breaking down because of

Crohn's and your illness around that

time as well. And I'd also heard that

you had had a legal dispute with your

management.

Which meant that you could no longer use

your social media channels, the name

Dynamo, etc. etc.

And that had all happened in this

concentrated period of your life.

There was there's a lot of stuff going

on and

yeah, like you know

I

I think losing my nana

ultimately

was

I think the thing that

I guess the straw that broke the camel's

back is the expression they use.

Because

she's always been the backbone for me.

Whenever I felt weak

and there's a lot of times I felt weak

my nana's always been strong for me.

And then

with

a lot of things going on in my life

in my life with my life being flipped

upside down,

you know,

and then my nana going as well, it was

just like, man, like

you know,

the like like it just felt like the

world was out to get me.

And

I kind of wanted the ground to just

break open and just swallow me up.

If I was a fly on the wall in your house

at that time, what would I have seen?

Mhm.

A lot of stuff that I don't really want

I wouldn't want anybody to see.

Like

I wasn't very nice to myself.

There's a lot of pain.

But also a lot of numbness and

I felt that

ironically actually, I didn't feel

like I felt so numb

that

I'd hurt myself to try and feel

something.

Self-harming?

Mhm.

Does your Does your partner know what's

going on

in your life inside your head during

this period?

Cuz I cuz I have a I have a partner and

I if I was

in such a dark place

where I was

self-harming and

doing some of the things you've

described, the banging my head against

the mirror, and I was in that sort of

cycle of self-hatred, my partner I I

think my partner would

would would know.

Mhm. Yeah.

She knew.

She

She maybe didn't know the extent of it

to begin with and I think

also

the the loss side of things, you know,

she obviously felt that herself. So, I

think

those things she's dealing with it

dealing with her own grief

Mhm.

at the same time. So, sometimes when

you're dealing with grief you it's hard

to see outside of your own grief to see

other people's.

Mhm.

You know what I mean?

Um

and we were kind of almost together in

those moments, you know, we came

together like, you know,

but

she

she was the one who ultimately got me

to go to therapy and to get the help and

support that I needed really.

In this chapter was there was there a

moment you look back on and say that was

that was my rock bottom?

Mhm.

Yep. 6th of November, 2020.

The 6th of November, 2020.

Mhm.

Almost 3 years ago today.

Exactly, almost.

Why was that the hardest day?

Cuz that was the day

that

I knew that she knew.

Cuz she found me.

And I tried to kill myself.

She found you in the house.

Mhm.

She found you unconscious?

Yep. In the dog bed.

What are you comfortable talking about?

I mean, I'm not

super comfortable

at life

generally, so

you know, just talking

this is is first time I've kind of done

an

an interview

that's not been with a therapist

in since 2020.

So,

you know, I I I trust you. You've

you know, we've you've been a bit of a

you've been a help for me over the last

few years.

So, I guess

if you're respectful, then I respect

what you'll do with what I say.

It'll be done.

There's two There's two things. There's

two things. I want you to feel

comfortable about whatever you say, but

also after this conversation, if there's

anything you

you're not comfortable

with having said, you can of course let

me know and it won't be

it won't be out there in the world. But,

I I want to um

I think the the question that I

like

that I think is of most

value is understanding how

someone gets to that point. I've I've

actually spent a quite a long time

speaking to Simon Gunning, who's the CEO

of Calm, Campaign Against Living

Miserably.

Yeah.

Um and he's done a really great job of

helping me to understand

suicidality as a topic, but also when I

have a public platform like this where I

speak on this these subject matters

occasionally

about what elements of that are useful

for people that are in that mindset now.

And

what he's shared with me is

part of it is um people understanding

that some how someone gets there, but

also understanding how they go from

there

and they rise out of that situation.

What was What was on your mind

when

that led you up to that moment?

I felt

that

I had so many

problems

that I couldn't figure out

how to even solve one of them.

And the problems weren't just affecting

me.

They were affecting my household.

They were

affecting, you know,

just

my family's life.

And a big part of me thought

if I'm dead

then

my problems won't affect these other

people in my life

and they will be all right.

Cuz I felt like

ultimately

I was the problem.

It was quite a simple

kind of thought That was it. It was like

Okay.

If I'm not here

then everybody else might be happier.

And they can get on with their lives and

you know

like

that was it.

Your wife finds you finds you that day

in the dog bed and then she

calls an ambulance?

No, she called Edward Despot who's my

doctor. He's He's my my

gastroenterologist, my Crohn's

specialist.

And then

I remember well

she was on the phone to him when I kind

of came round and she was just crying.

And

that's Well, you asked me

a

where it feels like it was the worst.

I'd probably hurt myself

worse

on previous occasions.

But

I'd never been found by the one person

in this life

whose opinion I genuinely care

about.

And

no matter what I do now

in the future

there's nothing I can do

that can erase

what she saw.

And that's the thing I'm the most

ashamed of because

in the moment I felt like I was trying

to maybe do something

that would

take all the problems I thought I was

facing

and remove them from everybody else's

world.

But

I'd not actually thought about

what

these people would feel

if I wasn't here.

Do you know what I mean?

Mhm.

So

that's

the shame that I feel

for that. I don't feel ashamed for

feeling the way I did.

But I feel ashamed

that

my wife kind of saw that. Like it's

it's just embarrassing, isn't it?

She's the person I'm supposed to be

strong for.

You know, she's person who relies on me

and you know

I'm the

I'm the husband that not I don't mean

that like I know we live in a modern

world, you know, where you know, you

know, it's but like

I'm supposed to be there to be strong

for her.

And I couldn't even be strong for

myself.

Can I ask you a question? In that

when someone is in that situation as you

were psychologically,

what do you think

those around them

can do to support that person?

Or do you think there's very little

those around I'm trying to understand

how to support someone, you know, in my

life that would be in such a such a

mindset.

I mean, I guess what my wife did.

Like not not just call you naturally you

would call someone for help like a

doctor or something like that.

But

I mean

even though I still feel it

and I can't necessarily speak on her

behalf.

But

she

didn't make me feel ashamed.

She loves you, doesn't she?

Yeah.

It's one of the greatest gifts, isn't

it, to have someone in your life like

that that you know just loves you

through thick and thin.

From the ex- from the experience and

how she's been

even up up till now, you know, how she

dealt with it and dealt with me and

I think

it's the first time

outside of my nan or outside of family

who, you know, they have to do it some

conditional, right?

Um cuz they're family, they're blood.

But it's the first time that I have

actually felt

the love of somebody else.

Like because

we've been married a long time before

then.

But,

you know, you

you just never know

what someone's going to

act like when really hits the fan.

Let me see you naked.

Yeah.

And

I was exposed I was

you can't get any more exposed than

than what I've felt.

And

she became the rock. She She gave me a

love that I've never had to

to deal with it. And

you know, it's

Yeah, that is something that

I didn't necessarily maybe know I needed

in my life until

that moment. And that ultimately has

kept me alive.

Around this time there's a dispute with

your management.

What are you able to tell me about that?

Cuz I know it's a legal dispute, so

there's things that probably can't talk

about, but I think it's important

context to understand what you're going

through in this moment as it relates to

your sense of purpose and identity and

all those things. What are you able to

tell me?

I think

I was at a time in my life

where

I felt lost.

And

I knew

if I

you know,

stayed

doing things exactly the same way that

I'd always done them,

then

you're only going to get kind of the

same results, right?

You know, if I'm

if I'm feeling suicidal thoughts I'm

feeling

kind of like worthless,

then the only way to break that cycle is

to have a

fresh start.

It's needed to

break away from

everything and

ultimately, you know, you've

started many of businesses, and you

know, I'm sure some of those have

failed, and some of those have, you

know,

you've had to have, you know, go your

separate ways at times. Um so,

that happens in business, um

and I think

there was a lot of work needed to be

done on myself.

Mhm.

And

which had to take time away from that.

Like um

yeah, I can't really uh

touch on

Mhm.

it too much. I'm trying to be extremely

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all good.

I'm

actually quite interested in the the not

what happened, but the consequence of

what happened. So, cuz I've noticed

you've not been posting on social media

in a while, for example. So, I assumed

that one of the consequences of this

separation with your management was

you've not

you've not been able to use your social

media accounts, and we've not seen you

on the internet as much. Is that

a correct assumption?

Although I feel like I've wanted to kind

of

post things because

I felt like

my life

isn't been worth sharing.

So,

you know, whilst I've been trying to

fix myself,

I I didn't feel comfortable kind of

sharing in those moments, and

kind of just let the lawyers do what

they do,

and figure that stuff out because I'm

I'm too I'm too busy trying to figure

out

what's going on in my own head, you

know, how to

kind of just

get to a place in this world

where

I can deal with the pressure of

life. Ultimately,

all I wanted to do,

which is

you know,

what's led me to here with you today,

is get to a place in my life

where

I could share magic again.

And even if

my arthritis and my Crohn's stopped me

doing it in the way I used to,

I had to find a new way to share it.

And there's

certain

things

in the past

that

I've had to go through,

negative experiences, you know, positive

experiences.

But ultimately, I've had to go through

those things to learn and grow from

them. And some things I've had to leave

behind.

And I'm speaking of things you've left

behind.

Are you still Dynamo?

I think Palm is always Dynamo. Yeah, of

course. Like

and

the thing is

I've battled with knowing

who They're almost like there's been a

battle between me and myself because

the lines are so blurred or worse or

blurred

between

you know,

the Steven that you know,

Mhm.

and the Dynamo that you you but the

greater world kind of knows.

So, then

like

it's just been

it's been a lot of confusion. Mhm. All

right. In simple terms, it's been a lot

of confusion.

Because

Dynamo

is the part of me that feels like it can

do anything.

But Steven's

the flawed human being

that realizes and knows

that he can't.

And it's a conflict.

And then when my body's

falling apart, my life's falling apart,

I'm losing everything in my life outside

of magic that I love.

Then

I'm just an empty shell.

And

that's the sort of feeling

that makes you think like

what is the point? Why am I here?

Like I am worthless

to

this world

if

I can't share

the only thing that I feel I'm good at.

People will be sat thinking, "Why can't

you share it?"

Because

partly

for

some reasons

that

you know, are outside of my control.

Mhm.

Legal-related reasons.

Some.

Yeah.

And yeah, sure.

Um

you know, and then

partly

because

mentally

I wasn't free. Like, I need to be free

in my head

to create

material, and to create the magic I

share.

But,

all that was in my head

is horrible things.

Is

things that

I can't shut off. I can't turn off the

noise.

So, then, there's no space

for magic to find its way in.

So,

I

I guess it'd be like the

equivalent

to

writer's block.

Like, magic writer's block. Like,

I don't know if that's a real thing, but

Mhm.

that's the only way I'm trying to simply

explain it.

The way that I heard it from what you

just said about the noise was I can't

write if there's loud music playing with

lots of lyrics in it.

So, when I when I do writing, I have to

turn off loud music with lyrics in it,

or else I can't my brain can't focus on

both. So, I was almost imagining being

in a room with really loud music

playing, and then me trying to think and

write,

and I just wouldn't be able to.

Yeah. Like,

like, my body was not

allowing me to perform in the physical

sense in the way that I wanted to, you

know? I was, you know, some of the

medication was working well, and I was

doing good, but then

like, mentally,

like, I wasn't in a fit state to do

magic, you know?

And

because of things that were going on

behind the scenes, I also it was really

complicated, you know?

Um

even

getting work.

And then,

naturally, with that,

you know, there's going to come

financial pressures, which is you know,

the last thing you need when you've also

dealing with everything else.

So,

ultimately,

I had too many

horrible thoughts in my mind to try I

too many

problems to solve

to even think about magic.

But then, me not thinking about magic,

is you just

then that's the that's a depressing

notion.

Mhm.

Cuz that's how much of your purpose and

meaning and joy and

Yeah.

And it's not just tricks. It's not you

know, I'm not when I talk about magic in

this sense like

there's the

there's the card tricks. There's the

things that people see, right?

But for me,

magic is a feeling.

It's something you experience

in your body

when you witness something that you

can't explain or when you see

something that feels impossible, but

feels like unobtainable,

Mhm.

right?

Putting a smile on someone's face is a

magical thing.

And that's what I've spent my life

doing.

But the irony is I was in a position

where

I couldn't put a smile on my own face.

So, how am I meant to do that

for anybody else if I can't

you know,

if I can't do the the simplest thing for

myself.

And you go to therapy at this point, you

said.

Yeah. My wife was on the phone when she

found me

to

to Ed Despo, who's my cosmetologist,

right? And then, he

he

put my wife in touch with with therapist

um called Edward Sim.

And

I had some sessions with him initially,

but this type of therapy can be quite

expensive.

Yeah.

So like I got like the first few bills

and I was like I can't sustain this. I

need it, but having to pay for therapy

was

making me more stressed in the process

because I just couldn't afford the

therapy.

But

Edward Sim, um

he showed me a kindness that

I've kind of been, you know, but I

haven't seen in a long time, especially

at that time. Like

he contacted my wife,

um and just said, "Listen, I want to

help him. Um I'll do it for free."

And he's been he's been looking after me

ever since and

you know, like

For free?

Yeah.

Wow.

I mean, I've, you know, I've

I've keep offering to pay now you know,

I'm in a slightly better place and

but he refuses, you know, he

um but you know, I don't think, you

know,

he's someone who I want in my life

forever and you know, I want

I want to be able to repay. I'll I'll

never be able to repay him for what he's

done for me.

But

like

Yeah, I mean

he introduced me to so many different

things like

stuff that I like I use this thing

called Sonic Reset Therapy.

Don't know if you know about it.

It's

this

like noise that you listen to.

I listen to it twice a day for 20

minutes

and

it it

it's definitely

become something that calms me down

and helps me sleep at night.

Um and then

What do you think it's doing? What is it

doing for you? It's just kind of

resetting your mind in a way or

Yeah, I think that's I mean I think I

guess that's the intention behind it. As

as I listen to it, it tells me to think

about negative experiences or think

about positive experiences that like

think about goals you want to achieve or

think about things you want to you know

get past.

And just let them come into your mind at

the forefront.

And

it's really strange like it just has a

real calming effect.

We'll try and get hold of it and we'll

try and include it in the description

below. So

That is it's you know like it

is been it's been helping me, you know,

um sure it will help others um but you

know there's lots of different things

like

one of the things that he suggested to

me

which

at the time when he suggested it

it was such a weird thing.

Is he

he recommended that I read the

Alcoholics Anonymous book.

Now

I say it's a strange thing for him to

recommend for me

because

I've never drunk alcohol in my life.

I've never done drugs other than what

the doctors prescribe for me for my

Crohn's.

So I've literally been teetotal forever,

do you know what I mean? So

like

I just naively assumed that you know

this is a book to help someone who is an

alcoholic.

Right?

That yeah, I've I've actually I've got a

stuff copy.

My copy.

That's yours. This is my copy um and in

in researching your story I I realized

the significance of this book so I just

bought a copy of it.

Yeah. For people who've never read it,

um I recommend reading it. You don't

have to be