It was an intense time. We had to win

football games, but all the rest was on

my plate as well. I need a break. And

you cannot do that in that business. You

cannot say, "Give me a year. See you

later." So, it begs the question, do you

think you could ever go back and manage

Liverpool again?

>> It's possible. So, what would it take?

Yeah, you change a club, you change the

city, and you arrived at a time when

clubs were in a period of dysfunction to

bring that club back to its glory. And

you do that over and over and over

again. How to win in a very decisive

moment, you have to be the best team.

And to be the best team, everybody has

to buy into that team and walk through

fire together. How do I get people to

walk through fire? I better go back to

the start. Growing up, my mom was very

caring. She loved people and my dad had

expectations. The problem was I was

absolutely useless in most of the

things. Even with football, my teammates

were better than me and I thought I only

can get on that level from the first

until last minute. I was a warrior on

the pitch. But it made me the guy I am

today. And so my team plays a little bit

more like a heavy metal band because you

have 90 minutes and there's no guarantee

to get anything but the only chance to

get something is to give your all. So

you want to have the maximum success.

Don't waste time with holding back. I

want to know why Manchester United

didn't.

>> No, they tried but there are some

reasons in that conversation which I

didn't like.

>> Arie slot coming in after you and didn't

change much.

>> That's super smart. Not changing much

and all of a sudden you win the league

by some distance.

>> But this year Liverpool have spent what

450 odd million. You never had a

transfer window like that.

>> Nobody ever told me that it's possible

that we can spend that.

>> You seem to always be successful. How

does someone succeed you?

>> You want to be able to become the best

team in England? you need to

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>> Den to understand you and the man and

the anomaly that you went on to be in

your career and still are. What do I

need to understand about your very

earliest context where you came from and

how can you point out to me how that

very early context created the person

you are today and that everybody knows

you to be.

I think we all are who we are because

the environment we we grew up. My dad

was a salesman and my mom came from a

family and my grandpa had a brewery and

she worked there blah blah blah and all

this kind of things. So, but her only

purpose was her kids. She loved me more

than her own life definitely. And my dad

had expectations. He loved me as well,

but he had expectations where my mom

didn't. So, my mom was just happy that I

was there and my dad had always

something um where he was not really

happy with. And all the things my dad

wanted me to do, I love doing. So, he

wanted me to to to to be a sports guy.

each sport, tennis, skiing, football,

that was his life. So he wanted that his

son is good at that and he loved doing

it. If I would have been, I don't know,

sitting at home and and drawing or

whatever, he would every day take me out

and say, "Go outside and and and play

something." But then pretty quick when I

became better, it was never good enough.

And he always So that was the process.

So that's how I was brought up. That's

him. That's definitely

Yeah.

Can I keep these pictures? Of course you

can keep. That's good. That's good

because I have them, but I'm not sure

where. Yeah, exactly.

Good looking guy. Yeah.

>> Was he a tough tough man?

>> Yeah.

I It's not long ago. I never I never got

hit by whatever. Never. Never. Never. He

was just He wanted to to bring the best

out of me. I think that was what he

wanted. Tough in a way. Yeah. how people

who are brought up in in that time

probably but not tough endless that you

thought I do you don't want to have to

do anything with him no I loved him to

bits and he loved me he was very proud

but never never said it and these kind

of things so was he was a good guy a

real good guy but with his son he wanted

him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid

that I might be not ambitious enough so

>> competitive man I hear

>> yeah yeah yeah

>> so reading about stories of um him

racing you on ski slopes and and sprint

races and never letting you win.

>> That's true. Who knows if it was right.

Probably it was right. I I don't know.

It was not nice in a way. When you tell

the story, it's like my god, come on,

let the poor boy win or whatever. But

you had no chance. It's just you stand

on the touch line and you run to the

halfway line. And when you when you look

back over the the course of your career,

are there moments where you have

flashback to lessons that he taught you

or principles or values that he taught

you that you think, gosh, I got that

from my dad? The one skill

I I realized that my dad had without

knowing that time. It was a skill he

could speak publicly. You don't know

that you have that, but I have it. You

today I know it. I I don't care if a

camera is in my face or whatever. I say

what I have to say in that moment um

without being too worried what might

people think about it if I'm convinced

it's right and I I say talking in public

is not a problem it's probably from him

my law for people

unintentionally that's from my mom so

this mix of a very confident and a very

caring very confident dad and very

caring mom

is where I was brought up in the middle

of And you wanted to be a doctor before

before then. So you were aiming to be a

doctor. That didn't work out.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> Why? Why? Why doctor?

>> No, it was always it was something I

wanted to do. So in all this wonderful

upbringing, it was pretty clear that

money is an issue. Not in a sense that

we didn't have enough. We always had

kind of enough. But I remember

discussions, bad discussions about

money, arguments if you want, who spent

that, who spent that. I was a little

one. I just sat around and listened to

it. But there was a moment in my life

when I when I realized I have to earn a

lot of money that I can sort it all. I

want to earn money to not having this

kind of discussions

with my wife or with the kids or

whatever. So it grew as a as a as a

thought when you are a young man and you

think what could you do with life and

for me it was clear I cannot earn my

money with football because in my mind I

wasn't good enough and then I got

surprised by some people they thought oh

there's something um that could be

interesting.

>> What did they see in you as a football

player? What was it that they they saw

in you as a young man? cuz I've got all

these wonderful photos of you as a young

player and

>> oh my god.

So in my village I was the best player

in my village. So I scored the goals. I

was the fastest. All this kind this

physical talent. I was really fast.

Later on when I studied sport science I

could jump far. I could jump high. All

these kind of things. So it was a

physical talent. I was literally

surprised by the approach from from

professional football clubs. I didn't

think who's coming. So it was like the

question was are you number seven from

the game before? Yeah. Oh come on let's

have a chat. Do you want to come to

Frankfurt? That was the question. It was

before that was 80

>> 87.

>> And you were 20 years old at the time

when you went to Frankfurt.

>> Yeah.

>> Well I mean a lot happens in your 20th

year of life.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot happens.

>> There was a change. Wow. Yeah. I came to

Frankfurt.

I it didn't take long that I met Mark's

mom.

>> Yeah. Your son's mom. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And then um she got

pregnant and um December 88 I became a

father.

>> Were you scared? 20 years old become a

father

>> massively. When I heard she's pregnant I

was I wanted to run away go oh god it's

not me.

So the moment when I when I got aware of

the fact that I will be a dad, I was

really scared. The night 13th December

of December 1988 when Mark was born was

the night when I became an adult and the

night who changed my life

in the right direction. From that moment

on, I was always more an adult than all

the other people in the

in my age group. So they were the

university, they were on parties, I

couldn't go. They went on holiday. I

couldn't I played football, low wages,

third division Germany. Had two other

jobs, one in the morning, one at night.

Um and and playing semi-professional

football. That taught me the discipline.

I didn't have to learn at home because I

had no no jobs to do in the house. So I

got it a bit later but um it made me the

guy I am today.

>> Because of that experience when you

became a manager yourself did that

become a bit of a personal reference

point to understand the individuals that

you were managing? Because if you were

managing a 21-year-old dad versus a

21-year-old that didn't have kids,

did you understand them to be different?

M

>> one is in your, you know, in your own

words, one is potentially a man and an

adult and one doesn't know what that is

yet.

>> Yes, of course. I I I don't, but I say I

like people and I'm super curious.

Everybody has a story to tell, so I want

to hear it.

>> I think I think I asked that question in

part cuz I heard stories that Sir Alex

Ferguson would prefer players who had a

girlfriend

>> or a wife and kids.

>> Yeah.

>> And I was I was wondering if there's any

truth to that, if they have a different

stability or

>> Oh, it's probably Yeah.

There are couple problems you can you

can have a great partner married or not

and then everything is fine. It's the

wrong partner it's not great. You have

no partner not great for some and you

have too many it's not great. So there

are so many things in life. So I haven't

never I never thought about that. I

heard about it at coaches Germany very

successful manager Oreleer I love him to

bits fantastic guy. he had as well, I

think he said it once as well that he

wants um married players because they go

home and stuff like this. Yeah,

that's not that's one part of of the

personality but not the overwhelming or

the the most decisive or whatever. So,

it's like and you need on the football

is a football game. You need the cheeky

the cheeky ones as well. So you need

them the one who the street smart you

need as well they get out of situations

in life and on the pitch stuff like

this. So it's a mix of everything.

That's what I loved about football

teams. I I treated them

let me say 50% of the time completely

the same and 50% what he needs what he

needs what he needs but in front of the

other teammates.

So people, players came to me, why do

you um treat me like that? You would

have ne would never say that to him. No,

because he's from Argentina, grew up

without a window and you are from Munich

and everything was fine. You want me to

treat you like him? Really? To bring all

these people from different areas in the

world together, you cannot expect that

they all tick the same way. It's just

not possible. Growing up in Germany is

obviously different to growing up in

Seneagal. It is different. So, but then

we come together in dressing room and

then everybody says, "So, this is the

rule for all of you." And yeah, be in

time of course for all easy. But then

all the other stuff, come on, calm down.

You want a um a football team

full of different

skill sets, full of different talent,

full of different personality. want that

because that's what you need. That what

makes you unpredictable. But then you

put just one I don't know helmet over it

and say so that's for all of you. That's

how we go. There are moments in the game

where they have to act like that. In all

the other in all the other moments they

have to be themselves. So treat them

like that. This is one of the most

shocking, counterintuitive

um ideas that I've that that I heard

from players with other managers

specifically cuz I've just interviewed

so many of Sar Alex Ferguson's former

players. One of the shocking things they

all said was that he treated people

differently. And to hear you say the

same thing as well, it it it really is

the opposite of what you hear in

business. In business, you hear that you

have to be a consistent leader, that you

have to be consistent, treat people the

same. Um but in the world of football

people like you tell me that's

>> I think I think in business in life it's

the same. So

to lead that's one number one thing you

lead yourself so that's the first one in

the morning you stand up you have to

kick your own but say come on it's not

the greatest day but anyhow we go and

then then the people you lead you need

to understand to do it properly. So now

that means you you you talk to them, you

listen to them, you ask them where are

you from, what's your background, what

are we doing here and there blah blah

and why did you that and stuff like

this. So it means it's already in that

conversation it's clear

he's different to the other guy. It's

not about the rules like punctuality

early in late out not about these kind

of things but how can we get the best

out of people if you treat them all the

same? It's it's crazy. It's in business.

I I don't think it is like that, but

I've never I only worked in this

football business. Or maybe it's just

working here. I cannot see that. For me,

it's super important that you really

pick the individual from where it

stands, not from where you want it to

be. No, actually where it actually is.

>> Can you give me an example that I would

know of two people that you treated

differently and why you made the

decision to treat them differently based

on their origin?

>> So, you have a young player as an

example. So you trend Alexan Allen comes

up to the first team. So and then you

and James Milner is already I don't know

31 or whatever how oldever he was that

time. So you James makes clear first and

foremost that trend doesn't go crazy. So

because he sorts all these kind of

things but there are so many things

where just as an example but James

doesn't have to do this and that because

you know he is doing it anyway. So for

for trend you still have to educate the

boy. this example which you probably

didn't think of but it explains how how

different they are. There are different

age groups. One is 16 or 17 and the

other one is 33. So that shows already

that's not possible.

>> So you are talking about the rules in

football. So everybody has to work hard.

Everybody has to do in my kid everybody

has to defend

the out of the opposition team. So

that's everybody has to buy into that.

There's no no no. I always said if if

you're not Leon Messi, you have to

defend. You have you have to defend. So

because I never had Leo Messi, so they

all had to defend for everybody has to

do that. But then to get there that that

they that they really grow together as a

group

in a group everybody except that they

are different otherwise we are I don't

know an army and and they are different

but it's not I mean just because we wear

the same shirt we have all our own

qualities. So and to that to bring them

to life or let them shine. Yeah. You

have to be to have to get treated in the

right way. And that's what what I loved

to figure out how is that how is that

possible? That was the conversations I

had the conversation with players during

a season. Of course there were football

talks but we had already enough

meetings. The the most important

conversations were the private

conversations.

Why are so when when the play is not

training well

could be could that he just is not ready

for training had a drink last night

didn't sleep enough or you ask so that's

all what you think he looks like he

didn't sleep enough blah blah blah bring

him in ask him what's going on and he

will be surprised most of the time they

either slept enough or didn't sleep

enough for the right reason because

something happened and nobody could

sleep they had no drink blah blah blah

but they lost focus right now because

massive problems at home you without

asking you will never find out so here's

one guy with problem here's another guy

he's flying don't treat them the same

>> so one needs more support and the other

one you need to bring down a little bit

so all these kind that's how you work

with people in the end what you want is

that the job of a leader is to make the

target the aim the final destination

whatever that clear like the sun that

everybody's automatically

going there and you don't have to push

them every day and say by the way

there's the sign that's around there so

that that they know it on the way there

you support them in different in

different ways it's not so important

what I want to say

in a moment of anger or whatever it

happens emotion do that to us especially

around a football game you shout

something did I really say that did I

did I I did that but it's not so

important in a talk conversation with

people they which depend on you, you are

responsible for it's not so important

what you say it's much more important

what they need to hear it's not them

telling them what they want to hear no

what they need to hear to deal with

their situation so that's what

leadership means not just telling them

off for whatever that doesn't work that

doesn't work try to understand why and

that was I I love that part in my job

and I still do that if you want um right

now not with world class players all the

time or coaches, point directors,

whatever. They're all young um younger

than me at least. And um that's how I

understand my role and understood my

role.

>> Was there certain players in your team

that you felt you could be tougher with

and others that you felt you could never

really be tough with because that would

make that would hurt their performance.

I'm reflecting.

>> Yeah. Of of course of course you have

the Sadio Mani and and and Mosala are

two top examples. So

>> in the end there are not a lot of people

who saw it coming. We knew they are

great. We knew they are massive talents.

They have fantastic potential but they

were not who they became later on in

that time. It's not that they came to

Liverpool and said boss just want to

tell you I defend anyway so we don't

have to talk about that. Just explain me

how we do it. And we obviously to to be

successful as a football team you have

to organize a football team to get

stability. To get stability you need to

find a way to defend properly and

together. If you have that based on that

they can start flying then we then let's

talk about the football part. So and now

there are obviously no defenders but we

were famous for our pressing and counter

pressing. I talked a lot to them and it

was and the the way we spoke about it

was just 100% clear. You want to win

more often than not. You want to have

the maximum success. You want to be able

to become the best team in England at

one point. Yeah. Okay then do that. Come

on. So agreement and then from there we

went on but then with years and not

because they changed or whatever here a

little bit less there a little bit less

and I have to decide do I go for them

like I would go for a young boy playing

in that position and say come on

turn run fight jump and take them off in

a moment over no of course not you don't

do that in that moment it's a it's a

story in the newspaper we had this one

argument I think with Mo at Westam at at

the sideline when it didn't start and I

brought him on and he was not happy. The

problem our problems then are always in

public.

>> That was not real big thing but in the

moment we didn't agree definitely.

So um how do you deal with that the next

day I I think I can say um we have a

very good relationship today um even

though on that day it didn't look like

and that's all the things. So you learn

you try to do it the right way. You try

to show the players respect but at one

point it's never enough and you have to

accept that as well because

the players they grow they get bigger

and bigger and bigger and at one point

you hear years later he never spoke to

me whatever another player from wherever

says about a former coach about me about

Mourinho he never spoke to me

I know we spoke a lot we just can't

remember and we didn't speak what you

wanted or we And I didn't tell you what

you wanted to hear. So you can never

make it 100% right. But you can only do

as good as you as it's possible for you.

And that's what I tried all the time to

create a relationship where even when we

had arguments, we always found a way out

as me player and it never um got carried

into the team that I lost respect, they

lost respect for me because I acted that

way. is we always stayed together. We

always find a way that they understood,

okay, it's really important that we get

through this, that they sort it, the

boss sort it with him or the boss sorts

it with us, that we can go from here

again.

>> From a very young age, one of the things

I found really surprising is in as I was

going through all of these football

teams you played in as a young man, it

appeared that you were always the

captain, repeatedly assigned to be the

captain. And I wondered why. What was it

that you were doing from a very young

age that meant all of your coaches back

then asked you to be captain of the

team?

>> I have no clue. The coach I learned the

most of Alfkang Frank um when he came

back to mines, he was at Mines very

successful spell left and then we were

in trouble again. He came back and I was

the captain and we had a very

experienced player from a first division

team coming to mind in the second

division. Lmid was his name. So and Wolf

Gang

Y can we talk? Yeah, of course.

I want to make last the captain. Oh,

yeah. Good. So then you are not captain.

Yeah, I know. So it was exactly like

that. It meant nothing to me. So my role

was not I was a leader in the team. Not

on purpose. I was on the pitch an

aggressive leader which I didn't like.

So heart rate above 140, I lost it very

often in a very very not a good way. So

really aggressive talk,

shouting at everybody and in all that

really was I had to very often I had to

apologize to my teammates.

>> Where did that come from? Because you're

I don't I don't know.

>> There's a real dichotomy with you

because you're such a sweet, kind guy.

You have your mother in you in terms of

the empathy and the love of people, but

then there's this other

>> explosive part.

>> I didn't like it at all. And I was

afraid when I stopped playing that it

that I'd take it over. So I was

emotional. I was had moments where I

lost it with referees and stuff like

that. But generally I'm I was really I'm

I'm a very calm person. So people think

because I'm probably I think I'm a

motivator or whatever. I do get up in

the morning and come in the dressing

room and say come on boys today we go

again. Not at all. I mean it happens

from time to time but not that often. No

I have no explanation for it. If I would

have had an explanation, it was a little

bit I knew I'm not good enough.

Actually, my my teammates were better

than me. And I thought I only can get on

that level if I squeeze everything out

on from an aggressive point of view,

stuff like this. So that was a bit my

explanation because they are so much

better. But if I calm down and want to

play cool football, yeah, I'm out.

>> You eventually become the manager of

mines. Yeah, you're my age when you get

that job and the the former manager's

been sacked. The club have never gotten

to the Bundesliga, the the first

division in Germany.

You don't have experience managing a

club of this size or scale previously.

The chairman comes to you, the owner

comes to you and says they want you to

do the job. Why did they want you to do

the job?

>> Because I didn't find anybody else in

the short in a short period of time. So,

we played Sunday and the next game was

on Wednesday. The idea was just to do

that game. So the the the the whole

story is that Ekat Gson um the manager

at that time he we we lost the game on

Sunday and we had a little camp a crisis

camp let me say because on Wednesday was

another very important game we had to

play. So he took us to a hotel that we

stay there have two good sessions and

then we go for this very very important

and maybe decisive game. And at night we

have a meeting. have a meeting with all

players and he said no gentlemen I want

I want only to ask one question I do you

still trust me are you still behind me I

don't want to answer now I order beer

for all of you I go out half an hour I

come back and you tell me

so he goes out where he just brings the

beer in we sit there look at each other

and think h

and discuss a little bit and I was not

captain that time yeah I was not the

captain so but then it's like at that

uh the decisions. No.

>> What?

>> Yeah. He asked. Why you ask? Yeah. No.

>> So, and it's like we are now we have a

discussion. Yeah. The majority some

people some players didn't speak but the

it was clear if you ask the answer is

no.

>> So, it's like that. I'm not captain but

the captain says global you tell him.

I tell him why. Oh, okay. But he comes

in. He comes in and and I said

actually no and he was shocked. He was

really shocked. I was like he didn't

expect it. It's more like a a little

thing to do and then we say yes we go

through that together something like

that. But we said no.

>> Why?

>> Because he was not the right person. He

was

>> because he we we played bad and we he

was

I love echard cson but that time for

that team was really he was just not the

right coach that can happen doesn't say

anything about you but we did we wrong

training wrong lineups wrong tactics

wrong everything. So that's how things

go bad in the wrong direction in that

time and we had no that time and we

didn't have to make the decision yeah

who can take over or whatever we just

could say no we we he we could have said

okay I will prove you wrong or whatever

but he ran out and said tomorrow morning

9:00 training

>> okay and then he wanted to do a press

conference where he wanted to tell the

public that he kicks out all the

experienced players and starts now the

rest of the season and plays only the

young kid. Though I was one of the old

players, I was 33. Um, but I didn't know

that that should happen. So, he called

the sporting director. We need a press

conference and I want to talk to them

and tell them we change everything. And

the sporting director says, "Yeah, we do

a press conference, but the subject will

be we sack you."

Okay. So, done. And now they didn't have

a coach. So and then they called me and

for that game can you do it and I said

yeah yeah I can do it and I did it and

we won the game and they didn't find a

manager so we had Sunday and other games

we the first game we won 1 nil the

second game we won 3-1

yeah from the first seven games we won

six and Drew won so and we stayed in the

league pretty comfortably comfortably is

incredible we were a bunch of friends I

they were all my friends and I was their

boss they had to tell me that I changed

from now on in the coach's dressing

room. But what are you doing here?

Here's the coach's That's your office.

Okay. The first night we had a twin

room.

>> Yeah.

>> So, and I got one more game to sleep

there with my friend you and Kney there

in in the same room. And then next day

they all told me, "Yeah, you have you

got your own room." Oh, okay. So, but

all the rest we were a real bunch of of

friends and they respected me from day

from the first second.

>> What was your approach going into that?

you you go from being a player to a

manager of these boys like what what

what's in your mind are you thinking I'm

just going to let them do whatever they

want to do I'm gonna

>> but we had wang very very the best the

best manager we all had when we were at

mines she was exceptional we at mines we

were a football team who lost all the

games when the other team had better

players

I think sounds normal but you know in

football is a way to to win games anyway

we never had that so comes in implements

four in the back, ball orientated

defending. We did nothing else than

that. And we changed overnight

into the one opponent nobody wanted to

play against. We were like machines. We

were like machine. We are not great

football. We were like machines. There

were games our goalkeeper didn't touch

the ball once. We were just defending.

It was new that time. So it was really

for all of them. That means we all

became believer in that. Then Wolfkang

left and none of the other coaches could

do that. None. There was no connection

to the coaches after Wolffrang.

>> Mhm.

>> So I was one of the players who

benefited massively from Wolffkang Frank

and now I arrived and the only thing I

did when I the two sessions I had were

both exactly about that 44 for two ball

orientated movements and we go for MSV

Ducebook that time there were third in

the table. We go for them like nobody

else. But I like these moments. I like

to find a reason why it makes sense that

why we give our absolute all in a moment

like this. Why we don't invest only the

the minimum? Why invest the maximum?

Why we would regret it if we don't do

it? How better life is if we do it? How

much more fun it is if we do it. I love

I love these moments and probably

something like that. I told them and

from that moment on nobody wanted to

play against us anymore. So like we were

like wow animals. It was great. It was a

fantastic time. Same team

um pretty much

uh changed overnight.

>> So you fixed the defensive situation,

the formation and you also told the

players in that dressing room a story of

why we had to give this give everything.

showed the they they wrote us off show

the outside world whatever you can do

most of the time it was real life but

that time so in my meetings later on I

never prepared in a way that I wrote

something down or whatever

our life was preparation what happened

during the week with us in the world but

that was preparation for meeting I never

thought long about it just remembered

that when I when I needed it we spoke I

I told the boys but that time they

needed one person to believe in them and

I did. It was not that I had to convince

myself. I have to tell them now before

that season I told in an interview this

is the best squad Mson ever had. It

would be really difficult for me to play

but good for us that the team is so good

and then we were in an

hopeless situation before I took over.

So I when I became the manager I was the

one who thought this team is incredible.

Nobody knows it yet but we will make

sure in a few weeks they will have a

sense at least.

>> How important did that prove to be this

idea of making sure that the players you

have throughout your career had belief

in themselves?

>> That's all it's all about that. It's not

football. It's life.

You had no when you started your podcast

you people probably told you well that

might be something for you but you were

not sure and then with each little thing

here and there. Oh how many people

listen to your first podcast?

>> Do you remember? No no no I think I read

it somewhere

>> 40

>> something around that was under 100.

Yeah.

>> So it's a start. So it's a start and and

all the rest is if you want history and

that's always in life like that that

it's just give it a chance

of course it makes sense you believe in

yourself but not everybody can do that.

So if but then if you meet somebody who

helps you with that who has a

perspective who can see something in you

yeah then tell tell them why you should

keep it for yourself. Oh my god I think

he's a talent she's a talent whatever

she's good at that he's good at that.

Yeah. Why we don't tell each other? So

where's the problem?

>> Did someone do that for you?

Told you that you should believe in

yourself. They saw something in you.

>> Once I said I never struggled with

confidence, but I don't know why. That's

the truth. But it's true. I never

struggled with confidence. There's no

reason for it. My two best friends in

school were genius. And we sat together

doing exactly the reading the same

books. Did invested the same amount of

time. They had the best A levels in

school and I was far off that. So a

normal reaction would be

I'm a dump obviously

but I never thought that and I don't

really know why why why that happened.

So um I took it how it was. I thought oh

respect you you can remember all these

things. Crazy. I can't

>> but you had lots of players that

struggled with confidence.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I try to create a situation

to make sure that

the player if if they are not confident

yet they are confident but you know

there are moments when they lose it

confidence is like described it once as

a little flower and constantly somebody

steps on it it's like that oh and then

it's growing again and oh now we are

confident again stuff like this in

football it's really difficult because

it's like you cannot play without making

mistakes so if a mistake costs you

confident And

that's a re a real challenge. Um but

what I try to

if you would believe as much in yourself

as I do that will be a start. But as

long as you cannot do that just

trust me. So you are good because I

don't work with not with other I don't

waste time. I don't that's what and it's

true. I don't. So, I really I really see

something and if I see it, I'm patient

enough to work on it. Um much more

patient than the public wants me to be.

But of course, the the idea is that that

one day

I help you learn flying, but in the end,

you have to fly yourself. Obviously, I

cannot I cannot do that for you. That's

what it is football. You have to perform

alone. They cannot look at me. What

shall I do? And that's my job is to

prepare them as good to make it the

education the co the coaching as as wide

as they just pick for me. That's the

idea but not too much as well. It's yeah

it's obviously was a good time in my

life doing all these kind of things. I I

I worked with some of the best

footballers in the world. Um really good

time. Do you sometimes have to lie in

public to protect a player's confidence?

I was wonder I wonder this because you

see managers come out and say, "Oh, he

can't play because he's injured or

whatever." And they they say things, but

I wonder sometimes if managers are

protecting players

because they're struggling or

>> Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I

ever had to lie to be 100% honest. I

don't know. But we protect players.

Super important. So for me, super

important. Um

he lacks confidence. That's in football

obvious you see that you run oneon-one

on a goalie and you don't make it you

can see it it's because you don't have

confidence that's that's how it is

there's not a lot of other reasons it

can be wind weather ball opponent it's

there but you do it once you do it twice

three time yes that's like that's not

good for the confidence of nobody having

that in training you you have the job is

not to talk too much about to give him a

chance to get confidence back with the

things you do in training that it

doesn't last forever Well, um the one

thing you have to protect players from

is public

>> try to because they are ruthless in

moments. They don't care until something

happens or whatever. Supporters

sometimes I think we were really lucky

with that. We created that bond between

the supporters and the team that they

were not angry disappointed yes but not

angry in a way that I don't want to see

them anymore. So that helped. But of

course you have to protect them

sometimes. You have to protect them

sometimes from themselves as well. So

that's the job.

>> Did you have to involve yourself much

with social media usage of your team

members? And did you did you ever

consider someone's social media usage

when you were considering signing them

to join the club? Cuz I think this now

as a Manchester United fan, I think some

of when some of our players are posting

on social media little indirect messages

and little emojis and commenting things,

I just think, "Oh god, troublemaker.

We had situation that players

text us or or posted something at night

and deleted it, but I still got aware of

it.

>> Mhm.

>> So, not that I read it, but people tell

me, "Oh, last night this and that

happened when 3:00." 3:00.

Okay. What do you say? This and that.

Oh, what I do in these situations, even

deleted, I go in the dressing room and

they all last night this and this

happened. uh got deleted. I know what's

there, but maybe you want to tell

everybody.

>> You would ask him to say in front of

everybody.

>> Yeah,

>> that's nice. Eh, no. The the thing is I

didn't I don't go for him and tell him

how can you write that or whatever. So I

said, "Come on, I I somebody told me so

I know it." Ah,

not important really, but come on, tell

the whole team what he wanted to say.

and they start

it's not great in that situation that I

don't like to bring people in that but I

think that's a deserved punishment for

something like that but actually the

effect is nobody ever did it again

because nobody wants to be in that

situation in a dressing room sitting

there and be the one who has to explain

something he did last night or whatever

I discussed individual problems if it

was Okay. Quiet in front of the team if

it was important for the team. Yeah.

Come on. Explain why you did that. Why

you went out that long? What happened in

the last two hours?

>> This photo here is of things going well

for you. Yeah. Minds

>> before I had

that to get here. We we that's these are

tears. The tears the year and two years

before were not for the same reason. So

you probably know we didn't get promoted

for a point then a goal. First a goal.

First a point then a goal and then this

happened. That was the first day when it

really went well.

>> So this was the day that you were mind

promoted for the first time in their

history to the Bundesliga.

>> Yeah. But before winning that I I

learned how to lose. This is very

important. I would say I think that's

again to learn

even though you want to be as successful

as somehow possible

you have to accept that from time to

time you lose and then keep then when

you then keep going you have a good

chance if you learn from it a defeat is

a defeat if you don't learn from it if

you learn from it it's a very very

important information and obviously in

football we have a lot of opportunities

to get did and opportunity to learn from

it. But this was the biggest relief

in my life. Not happiness that I was

just that's pure relief. The pressure

was mounting. I was crazy. Not only on

myself, nobody not from outside. I don't

know even know what the outside world

thought. But to make it happen that

year,

that was really special. But it took two

years of

coming close.

>> Yeah.

>> And dealing with the disappointment.

>> Yeah.

>> True.

>> When I spoke to Jamie Carrager, I I

asked Jamie Carrager actually this

earlier this morning. I said I said to

him, you know, what what was he curious

about with you? And this is actually

what he said. He said there were so many

near misses in your career, whether it

was in the Champions League or I

remember when you were headto-head with

Man City that in that season and you

were one point shy of winning the

league. And his question was, he's

fascinated with how you you were so good

at dealing with the disappointment of

near misses because sometimes near

misses can people. They can turn

them into a downward spiral. It can be

like the plant that got stood on. It can

crush someone's confidence. But it

appears through your career that near

misses ended up being positive forces

for you.

It's not that I knew that always but

what may we spoke about very early but

what made me the person I am these

people of course mom dad

my faith as well so and I I knew

always that I'm not here to get

everything I am here to give everything

so

that doesn't help in a moment when you

when you when you fail for a point

But in the general understanding as a

person of course it helps. So I'm not

surprised that I fail. I don't I don't

think I don't see myself as a constant

winner in my in my mind. I see myself as

a constant tryer. So I don't know

constant winners but there might be some

out there. But I I just can't imagine a

world where it would be like that. all

all the people running around there, the

all the the happy people, they win all

the time. Nobody wins all the time.

Nobody does. So, it's all about dealing

with the things you want and not get and

then you want it more and or or not

anymore or whatever. So, the moments

were not great, but I learned it here.

Doing it that day changed

the the destiny of the club of M. That's

how it is. My destiny, the players

destiny changed everything. So, we

wanted it that hard, but we learned

before we have to try harder. And that's

what I always took. If you don't get the

result you want,

try again and try harder.

>> It was Christian that gave you that job,

wasn't it?

>> Yeah. Mr. Hyel.

>> Christian H Highle. I um I spoke to

Christian Hyel.

He made a

>> His English is very funny, isn't it?

>> Yeah. I've had I've had to I'm going to

translate it for the viewers, but I'm

going to actually play what he said to

you in in German.

>> Oh, of course.

>> So you can hear it.

>> Here we go.

>> Global.

>> Yes, dear Global. We've known each other

for exactly 35 years now. First, we were

both players. Then you subsequently

became my esteemed coach. It all started

in Mitz. You changed an entire club. You

changed an entire city. Back then, we

were promoted to the Bundesliga

together. And today, Mines has been in

the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back

then, that was actually unimaginable.

You go to Dortmund, change your club,

change an entire city, and win every

title there is to win. You move to

Liverpool and the same thing happens for

the third time. You change your club,

you change your city. I don't think any

coach before you has ever achieved that.

And I'm always asked, "What makes Jurgen

Klopp special?" To this day, he has

simply remained a genuine person, always

authentic, which is incredibly

important. apart from the fact that you

are of course an outstanding expert. I

hope we'll see each other again soon on

our little shared island in Mayorca. Um,

and have a great day and lots of fun

with your podcast.

>> Wow.

>> You know,

>> yeah,

I told you

>> you changed a club. You changed the

city.

>> Yeah.

>> You did that over and over and over

again. You went on and did that again at

Dortmund. um winning a huge range of

awards there at a time when they were

weren't considered to be hopeful and

then you went off to Liverpool and did

the same. And as you I was reading about

how when you traveled to Liverpool there

was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your

plane fly across

>> um the channel to Liverpool because

they're all very excited. And you

arrived at a time when they were in a a

period of dysfunction, kind of similar

to where Manchester United are now, I

guess.

>> Yeah.

>> And you managed to bring them up from

being a team that were dysfunctional,

hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism

around the club. I think as a Man United

fan, I was hoping and wondering that if

Liverpool would ever come back, I was

hoping they would never come back again,

but you brought them back annoyingly.

When you when you arrived at Liverpool

that day, you said in that press

conference that you're the normal one. I

remember that.

What what did you observe when you

arrived? What was the culture? What was

the feeling? And what was your first

thought about what you had to do to to

bring that club back to its glory?

>> The feeling I got I had roughly a week

to to think about everything from the

from the first call to the signature. I

think

>> did you have other offers from other

clubs?

>> Oh, in that moment not. But in the

summer I had a lot of offers like before

when I when I finished at at Dortmund.

Um but in that moment it was just

Liverpool but it was kind of destiny

because I didn't want to it was not we

were on a family holiday in Lisa with

the with the two boys and I sitting

there phone goes my agent why is he

calling boys look at my face I say

Liverpool

>> and the both yes the boys

>> yeah and when I looks what what is and

she didn't see my lips when when I spoke

what and realized oh god we start again

before she knew we will we will um go to

Liverpool.

>> Why did your boys want

>> Come on. If you are not a Man United

fan, you know what what Liverpool means

for two people. Um and they they they

Yeah, they loved it and we we fell

instantly in love with that club. So

>> did did Manchester United ever call?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I spoke to them.

So in the year when Alex retired, they

they spoke to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of

course they were interested at one

point. So I was that time I would have

been interested. I was a young I had a

sensational team at Dortmund. My god. So

somebody they probably thought my what

is he doing there? Um later on I heard

that my players Hando, Adam Lana, James

Melon. So that they flew to to to Real

Madrid when we played the semi-final in

the Champions League to watch us. I

wanted to see what is Dortmund doing. My

god, what a football that is. I I mean,

you can get bigger compliments. It's

really It's really good.

>> I want to know why Manchester United

didn't

>> No, no, no, no. They they tried. I I It

was wrong time, wrong moment for me. I I

was in had a contract at Dortmund. I

wouldn't have left. Not really for for

for nobody in that time. They just

needed a manager, but the manager they

wanted in that case. Now, it was one of

a few options, I think. Um

>> So, it was you that turned down

Manchester United, not Manchester United

turning you down.

>> Yeah. That way. So I Yeah. So

>> we need someone else on negotiations. We

need

>> Yeah. No, no, no. He's not there

anymore. The guy who negotiated that. So

um there are now other people in charge.

It's long ago. Long ago. So

>> why why would a guy like Manchester

United's often known as the biggest club

in the world? Why wouldn't you take that

job? Why didn't you take that job?

>> Manchester United, the great Manchester

United.

>> This is typical. We are now not in

private in a private space. So there are

some reasons what the people in that

conversation told me which I didn't

like.

>> Oh really?

>> So United was that big. We get all the

players we want. We are like we can this

we get him. We get him. We get him. We

get him. And I was sitting there.

So I it was not my project. It didn't

feel like my it was a wrong time but on

top of that it was not my project. What

you

>> I didn't I didn't I didn't want to bring

back I don't know Pogba Paul is a

sensational player my god but these

things don't work usually but these kind

of things or Cristiano god we all know

that he's the best player or together

with Messi the best player in the world

so but bringing back never helps in that

time in 2013 it was obviously not about

Cristiano maybe about Paulo I'm not even

sure when don't get the numbers together

but it was just the idea is we bring the

best players together and then let's go.

>> It wasn't about the football. It was

>> No, not at all. And I sat there and was

like, "Nah, I'm not sure. That's not for

me." So, and then the pure

pure football project

comes up with with Liverpool and the

sensational talk to to Mike Gordon

should that's really important as well

like he was the is the owner. I know

John and Tom of course as well, but Mike

was responsible for us. I wanted after

the talk I want to be his friend. He's

such a good guy. So that's how it

started and in the end yeah was pretty

special. Yeah, I find this fascinating

because as a Manchester United fan, I I

observed from the moment Sir Alex

Ferguson left, we adopted a very

different approach and we brought in all

these massive name players, Di Maria,

Falcao, Ibra, you know, Ibrahimovic,

Pogba, Ronaldo and we we failed and it

it taught me something as an

entrepreneur about what matters more and

I actually when I read through your

philosophy, it's quite clear in your

philosophy that you you prefer attitude

ude and character versus how many

Instagram followers you've got and what

you've done in the past.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> And I wanted to get your take on why you

think the last This is very selfish of

me. The last sort of 15 years at

Manchester United haven't worked out as

an objective observer.

>> I want to I need to know you you can't

no you you're a man that was able to

take teams and make them successful and

we are currently

>> underdogs in many regards because of the

last 15 years. What is it that we've

missed in that time? What have we

overlooked in your view?

>> I know you don't want to hear that.

>> You have a hypothesis, though.

>> I didn't think a second

since I joined Liverpool about what Man

United did, right or wrong. I just

didn't. So, it's like I buy into a

situation. So um I went to Liverpool and

that moment you became our opponent. Not

my enemy but an a very important

opponent, one who is much more fun to

beat than maybe and and and like others

like with Everton. I know so many

Everton fans in Liverpool. We lived

there for 9 years. So I know so many

people have great people. Yeah. So

absolutely. But then you go to the game

and think, "Oh my god, that's something

different." Not I make that up. It's

like that. Um but I really didn't think

but but always in football is like this.

And again like in life you have a

problem and you only try to find a

solution for now knowing

you have two days later another problem

you know it but it's just for now just

find a solution for that problem there's

no mid no long term okay we have to deal

with that for another day or two and

then we can sort it and that means in in

our sense we have to deal with that for

a year or two at United and then we can

make a big step then this in our case

and football case contracts are running

out, player goes anyway, we can sell

him, we can do this, but because you're

in such a rush all the time just because

you want to or have to win the next game

a little bit like that being now in the

situation probably United in the years

when they were not happy they would buy

the time from that time becoming second

and nobody was really happy there and

they think oh remember that in that time

second was not good enough and now you

are not even close to that but that's

not a Man United story for it's just a

football story. It's always like that in

the foot in the world of football. You

win, you're the greatest. You lose, you

know nothing about the game. You draw,

you're boring. So there's not that

you're constant. And it's only about

your own idea what you really want to do

and where you want to go. And everything

in life is about development. We today

you were not the same 10 years ago. I

was not the same 10 years ago. So it

means the time between then and now

counts. So if it counts for me the next

10 years do the same. So it's important

what I do. It's important what I see in

a year two three. So I have to plan my

own life mid and long term as much as I

can do that. And especially the destiny

and and the future of a football club

a player can score a goal can score five

goals will never sort the problems if

you have

>> real problems. And I don't know the

United problems but that Liverpool was

the same. It's not about that on the day

when we when we lost sold Phil Coutinho.

That was not the day when I thought

oh good that we have the money. I lost

the player I wanted to work with for the

next 10 years if you want. It was not

that that I thought and we can invest

it. Yeah we invested it smartly. That's

true. But it's not that we found a

player for the position and sorted that.

That's we had to sort differently but we

found two really solid solid and

becoming world class players with

Allison and Fandai that was for the

future to go from there and now that's

the difference I think

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I love about football is the analogies

to the world I'm in, which is the world

of business, where you can watch a team

like we're seeing, I think, Crystal

Palace at the moment, who objectively

don't have maybe the best players in the

world. They don't have the most money.

>> Bournemouth as well.

>> Bournemouth as well. Yeah. But they're

doing something which is creating this

magic and it's this wonderful narrative

of you don't need to have the most

talent or resources to have the best

outcome. So what is that gap between

like and that's There must be something.

Now look, it's it's a situation the

moment and the situation with Crystal

Palace and Bournemouth is massively

different to the situation for United.

If if Bournemouth wins a game one nil

and doesn't perform particularly well,

you take it and you go on. I'm not sure

you would really find an article in in

in the newspaper about it just winning

and go but United is United each step is

under the under focus and what oh he

didn't they won but he didn't play

great. So they they win a game and then

somebody doesn't perform well. So pick

him out and go for him full throttle.

You think, "Wow." Right? So the coach

has to pick him up again. No, no, it's

all right. Stuff like this. And the next

one and the different completely

different situations. The only problem

you have now

in the time you try to sort your

problems,

all the other clubs improve their

situations.

>> Mhm.

>> So Liverpool has an incredible squad.

Yes. Are they 100% happy right now with

the three defeats? No, probably not. But

incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible

squad. City city, I mean, and they want

to strike back. There's already three

clubs. Chelsea.

>> Mhm.

>> Huh. They in that time when everybody

thought, do they have an overview about

their transfer market? Do they know who

they own and who they loan and stuff

like this? Obviously, somehow it pays

off. So, they have already five clubs.

They are above you. Are you happy with

position six? No. Mhm. Yeah.

>> So, and here's the problem. Should you

be happy theoretically with position

six? Maybe this year and build on that.

So, find um find a reason. Find a reason

to enjoy the situation again. Find a

reason to enjoy a a one nil victory,

two-nil victory at home, whoever against

whoever. Southampton. Try to enjoy that.

Really be happy. go home and not

listening to others who tell you then.

But Southampton, that's what we had

years ago when we decided after a draw

against West Brom

to say thank you to the supporters. We

stand in front of the cop and hold his

other hand and and said thank you. And

then the press conference and Tony P is

uh uh what a what the world we are

living in when Liverpool with the money

they spend celebrated point against West

Brom.

Oh

thank you. Um so but it's it's it's your

choice how you grow together again. And

I think after all the years now without

a lot of good football they need to find

a way to grow together again.

>> I fully believe in Reuben Amarim. Um, I

think he's he's a man that's focused on

culture. And I I like how honest he is

as well. And I think with the team that

they have around them with people like

Jason Wilcox and Inos who I've met um

and Colette and all the others that are

there, I think we're we've never been in

a better place. I personally feel like

that because I just think they're aiming

for more long-term things. They're

aiming at long term.

>> The only problem is you have no clue

about football, but besides that,

>> that's a small problem.

>> So, yeah. Yeah.

>> Good on you. Good on you.

>> I have faith.

>> That's great.

>> Yeah. I don't know if all my friends do,

but but I certainly do. And the only

reason I have faith is because I see the

club aiming at more long-term things now

>> and not buying

>> that's what you have to do.

>> Players because they have loads of

Instagram followers. Yeah.

>> When you got that phone call from

Liverpool and they asked you to come and

join, you said, "Well, the reason you

chose Liverpool is cuz they felt like a

football project versus Manchester

United who seem to be a bit more less

football oriented,

>> but but it's not the same year. Two

years two years before.

>> I'm wondering

what is it about their proposal that

made you think it was a football

project?"

>> Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I

knew the team. So if you look at um on

top of that I didn't think it that way

but when Alex left it was they became

champion in his last year but it was not

that the team was the one you build a

future on. So that's how it is when you

come in as you it's is a bit built to

fail if you want it but I didn't see it

that way in that time it was had other

reasons but if I would have thought

longer about it probably

>> yeah so David Moyes fantastic fantastic

manager um proves every year um couldn't

do the job and since then it's a bit of

a problem so a new team needs time he

was stitched up he was

>> so needs time so Liverpool the team as I

I said when I him. Um, nobody likes the

team. Not even the team likes the team.

Um, I like the team. Do I like the team?

I knew the players. I thought when Bobby

Faminia moved there, I said, "Oh, that's

a smart that's a smart transfer." I

know. I knew Christian Benteke. I love

Debri. I knew John Hennison. I knew Adam

L. I know many plenty players and heard

only kind of good enough thought, well,

let's see. So, I like the team. So,

that's a football team, proper football,

super attitude. I mean just on day one I

could have um um played Hendo Millie and

Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did.

I don't even know my first lineup. But

this it's a proper engine room. It's

smart players. It's people who really

want to want to um perform, want to work

hard and all these kind of things. And

what do you need for a start? I knew

Liverpool was not the same club than

they were before. It's not that I went

into the shiny room. I played there a

year before with Dortmund in a summer in

the preseason and I was

massively disappointed about the

dressing rooms where I remember you have

this pictures in your mind you think oh

my god it's envy

and you walk in and make two steps into

the dressing room and you run against

the wall and you think

kidding is that all where's the rest so

English dressing rooms really really

small in the old stadiums they think oh

my god how can we bring it. It was built

for 11 players and now we come here with

30. So people in that room doesn't help.

So I I knew about the history. I knew

that nobody's happy. I knew that I like

the team.

Um that's a good start.

>> And did they tell you that they were

going to develop the the ground the

stadium? Did they make any promises to

your assurances? Did they tell you

you're going to get

>> They didn't we didn't really speak about

that in the first conversation. That's

that's nothing I need to talk about in

in this kind of conversation. I know my

the job I had in that moment was just to

improve the football team not the club

that I was involved in all the other

stuff happened with time with time just

that be I realize this is my

responsibility now as well um you never

know I don't plan seven 8 n years spells

in a club it just happens it's like I

don't I don't think they could sack me

but I know could happen so I plan from a

specific moment on when I sorted the

first few things then I plan mid and

long term or always did knowing it might

not be for me but um I was I was never

worried about that too much.

>> What was the first first couple of

things you thought you had to change to

get them winning and to get the the

confidence back and to ultimately bring

the city behind you? Was there anything

you thought okay the first thing I'm

going to have to do is get rid of him,

change this?

So they a year before like not in that

season but the the the two years before

they nearly became chairman was a

different team and it was a very

specific way of football offensively. Oh

my god they were ridiculously good

defensively. Yeah lucky a good goalie

there stuff like this was not the same.

So we didn't have the team from that

time we didn't have Suarez. We didn't

have Sterling. We didn't have Yeah. We

had still um Dennis Dur stuff like this

but it was different different team

completely different I I arrived there I

had five strikers

>> there was

Chris Maker Denny Ings Dorigi Bobby

Firmino Daniel Sto five strikers and I

want to play one striker system

how do we deal with that but it was it

was fine and there was so much quality

doesn't really solve it so the first

thing I had to sort is like to organize

them so find a way to make sure that

they understand that we have chance to

win the next football game. We have to

do a couple of things for that. But

Tottenham, three days time to train.

Yeah. Jump in their face and let's see

what what what we get for it. So that's

it's not organized. It's like we started

with an organized chaos. So I gave them

a few ideas about where we have to where

we want to put them under pressure and

in that moment now do it. And afterwards

we work we talk about it how it worked

out because there was no time to train.

We anyway we had no time. the week after

we played European League I think in the

midweek and then you play again and no

it's like you are in a rush and a

coaching career with all the games you

have to play if you really want to a top

team especially if you really want to

develop a style of football you are set

up to fail because it's like you have no

time in the preseason there's no their

players are everywhere playing big

tournaments blah blah blah and then you

come two weeks before the season starts

into your camp okay so let's try let's

go from here. Then you play top teams

play every 3 days from a specific date

on. We obviously we lost a lot of

finals. That means we played a lot of

finals. That means we played all the

games until the end of the season, which

is a lot. So there's no really time. So

to train and really develop things. So

you have to use each little moment to

implement a specific idea we all can buy

into. And that's what we did. I loved

our first game against Tottenham.

Simon Mino they had to make a good few

good really good saves but they had to

do as well and that year Tottenham was

really strong there. We came second

behind Leicester I think that was that

season and that's a start.

>> What are those little ideas that you

started to implement one by one?

>> So many if we don't have time to change

football.

What do you mean? We are all not genius

and we cannot go there and show them a

little bit. Pass the ball here, pass the

ball there and if you pass the ball back

again, you can shoot on your alone in

front of the goal. That doesn't work

like that. So I I'm 100% convinced that

you have to

make sure that you are stable and if

you're stable that means that the other

team whatever they try it's not easy for

them to get through and shoot just

finish. I don't like that. So if you can

avoid that do it because we are people

but we are now realized a few times it's

not easy that you if they have five six

chances after each other opportunities

after each other then it's like that you

you don't feel great nobody plays his

best football if each attack of the

opponent ends in the arms of your goalie

that just doesn't work so how can we do

that in stability is to organize a team

that's number one two and three on the

to-do list of a successful manager and

that's what I did we organize and then

be told them to run their socks off. If

you people have to sh you have to show

the people that you want to change

something, you have to show the people

that you want to achieve something. How

we can tell I can tell them but the end

you have to show them. So run and and

they went for it and I I loved it so

much. They loved it so much. It's easy.

They all top fit. They want to run. So

just show them which direction and it

goes. And then we developed step by step

our own way of football. Brought players

in step by step. Um but we got we got

stable pretty quickly. Not as much as we

wanted. I think we became sixth,

seventh, eight. I I don't even know.

First season, two finals. Great. Lost

both. Not great. Um but then we we knew

each other and we loved working together

with this group. Brought in super

players, really super super players,

super character super players

and stick together. And I mean what can

you do? We we lost it. We lost the

European League final in Basel.

How it always is, there's a party after

the game. So you cannot organize a

party, but you all know if you lose, who

wants to go to the party? So I was a new

manager. Yes. Not that new anymore. 7 8

months in or so. And I realized some

players under there, but was in a team

hotel. So I told I called them, told

them all here. Come on, come downstairs.

Was really

I tell you what this was only the start.

We only are together in six, seven

months. This is not the last final we

played. This is the first final we

played. Okay, we lost the car boy. It's

not important. The first international

final we lost. No problem. We go again.

And I went on stay on the dance floor.

It was a dance floor. And I said all

coming when we saying we are Liverpool.

I mean, I had um had a few parties after

finals we lost and I always thought I

don't waste time at all on not being

happy about what we achieved over the

whole year because qualifying for a

final is a real achievement. Losing it

is not great, but until then everything

was fine and I never accepted that we

ignore the rest. So we have a party

and then we went on to achieve

new things and we need a bit of time

obviously but it was okay

>> and this goes back to the point earlier

about controlling the mindset and the

psychology after you lose to make sure

that you don't get depressed and

>> if you don't learn from a defeat it's a

real defeat if you learn from it it's

just it's a very very important

information and that's how I always

understood understood it I had enough

opportunities to learn. Really, how I

said I lost more Champions League finals

than most people play. It's not a great

thing to say. It's the truth. Anyway,

>> you're known for what they call heavy

metal football.

>> Yeah, but that's Yeah, I know.

>> You like that phrase.

And do you know why

>> I said a lot of things, but it's like

they that I said that it was not in my

mind that I thought you want to play

heavy metal football. They asked me

about Asen Mena on the comparison and

they they think we are similar in a way

and I thought what

and I know so come on don't be

disrespectful to our I'm a young baba

man from somewhere um but if you want to

compare us then I'm not sure that's

possible because Azen's football is

rather like an orchestra and my team

plays a little bit more like a heavy

metal band but that was the first day

when I thought about my team I got heavy

metal band but it.

>> But it's true.

>> Yes, somehow.

>> It is true. And I know that more than

anyone as a Manchester United fan

watching.

>> I'd hate playing your football teams

because they they ran so much. They were

so passionate. They never let up. They

would they could always win in the last

minute and the intensity was you were

just anxious as a as a football fan

watching the games because it was so

fullon and it was overwhel. It's almost

overwhelming emotionally. And I I

remember through your era you would win

sometimes you'd win games by seven.

You'd score seven goals, five goals.

Every week when I pull up my phone to

check the scores that week, oh,

Liverpool have scored five again. Oh,

they've scored seven again. They've

scored six again. Sometimes you would

concede three,

>> but you it was it was it was crazy how

high intensity the way you played

football was.

>> Don't waste time with holding back. I I

don't understand it. We have nothing to

do 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I

don't. We had to learn. I had to learn

to to manage games

inside me until the last date was like

come on come on try but then I had to I

I mean I grow up and I got more mature

and stuff like this it was like okay

come on hold the ball control the ball

all the things you you at one point you