For me playing was

it was just a dream.

It's

growing up as a family 24 brother and

sister. One breast chicken was for 3

days. Growing up in the street you need

to survive. Now when I have those image

in my head I could hear him [music]

trying to touch me and touching himself

in the same time next to the bed. you

know, you know, I was even attaching my

pajama with my shoelaces

because to make sure like he can't put

it down and uh one day he did and I was

just like terrorized. So that's the

things I grew up with like you know I

can't cry for me crying was a sign of

weakness. When I do a video and I see a

comment someone say oh Patrice my dad

passed away I watch one of your video

and I smile. Thank you.

This is more important for me than win

the Champions League or the Premier

League. I'm not perfect and I don't want

to be perfect. I want to be me.

[music]

Patrice Evra, I've just sat here with

him for an hour and a half and at the

very end of the conversation, he said

something which I think is the perfect

description of the man. [clears throat]

He referred to himself as an iceberg.

I followed him for almost two decades

and he was to me this football icon,

this tough guy, this defender, this

champion.

But as he says in this conversation, the

part of the iceberg that I never got to

see was the most compelling, was the

most heartbreaking, and was the most

interesting. He grew up in a rough part

of France with 24 brothers and sisters.

He was sexually abused by his headteer.

His brother, a drug addict, overdosed

and died. His mother raised him in total

poverty to the point where he stole his

food, his shoes, and his entertainment.

He endured an early upbringing that you

would never wish on any child an enemy

or anyone at all in any circumstances

ever.

And he hid it all. He hid it all for his

entire life. And only recently has he

found it within himself after very

personal conversations with his mother

to share it with the world.

And only today on this podcast has he

decided to share some of those

heartbreaking details.

After watching him on TV for almost two

decades, I thought I knew Patrice Ever.

This comedian, football champion, funny

guy, happy guy.

I was wrong. All I knew was the tip of

the iceberg. So, without further ado,

I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the

Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's

listening, but if you are, then please

keep this to yourself.

[singing]

[music]

I've sat here with a lot of guests and

sometimes I feel obliged to start with

their childhoods because it seems like

the the foundation of most people,

specifically successful people, tends to

be the case that the things they go

through at an early age, especially with

my sort of little background in

childhood psychology, tend to shape them

the most. But when I read your story in

your book that's just come out,

um, having watched you on screen as a

Manchester United fan for many, many a

decade and seen subsequently the guy you

were on Instagram, the the hilarious,

entertaining person, I never ever would

have guessed ever that that was your

upbringing, that was your childhood. I

would have guessed by the person that I

came to know on screen, by the person

that I watched on Instagram, I would

have guessed the opposite. Take me back.

So before you were 10 years old, cuz I

know that 10 years old was a really

pivotal moment in your life because your

father left.

Yeah.

What was life like before 10?

He was

an happy happy child. Uh lot of people

inside the house. Sometime you have to

make sure like you're ready when mom say

the the food is ready. Uh he was like

sleeping with two of my sibling in the

same bed a single bed and you know two

was sleeping that way and one on that

way sometime it was like some smelly fit

but [snorts] we need space and it was

all about like sharing but I will tell

you something I I was happy you know

even if I was like begging in front of

shop you know to buy a sandwich I

couldn't say in that time I wasn't happy

I was like the most happy child but it

was like tough and maybe sometime I was

just unconscious

But of course, I think when my dad left,

that's when I was like, okay, I'm not

scared of anyone in this house. So now I

have to grow up on my own. And that's

when I was like, I would say more close

to the street. Because when my dad was

here, you know, just when I was saying

like, I want to go and play outside with

my friend, he was like, did you have you

done your homework?

Even I swear even if I did my homework,

I was scared to say yes. So when you say

yes to him, he was like, "Okay, bring me

your your book." And I remember he was

like, "Okay, which lesson you have to

learn tomorrow?" And I was like doing

the lesson perfectly. And he was going

to the first page of the book and saying

like, "Okay, tell me about this." And I

couldn't remember. I was like, "Yeah,

but that we did this at the beginning."

You know, this is like, "Okay, when you

learn your full book, then you will be

able to go outside." So my dad when he

was at home, we didn't miss anything.

You know, we have food on the table.

Everything was perfect. I I had like a

big screen TV. I remember we are one of

the first family in where I I grew up in

my street to have that big screen and

all my friend they come. So I I I I

couldn't I will never complain when my

dad was here. He did his job perfectly.

But the only things you know my dad uh

teach me uh crying is a weakness. So

when he was like punishing

someone and you cry, that's when he

going to he going to beat you even more.

So that's the things I grew up with like

you know I can't cry. That's why we can

talk about that toxic masculinity. They

understand crying is normal but for me

crying was a sign of weakness.

Why did he leave?

He lived because my mom divorced him uh

and sometime he was uh it was violent

with her and I remember you know being

kids and no one asked me these questions

that's why I'm a little bit

emotional and and you know my mom was

like no one man can raise his hand on me

so

she divorced he had to leave. You know,

she went to the police and uh

and he had to go. And it was a tough

moment because, you know, when you see

your dad leaving, no matter if you know

the reason, he shouldn't have done that.

U leave the same taking all the sofa,

the the the big TV, the big screen. He

was with a big trunk waiting for him.

And we were all of my brothers and

sister crying because, you know, he's

your dad. But

at the same time, what he was doing to

my mommy wasn't right. So

did you witness that?

Yeah, I think like you know sometime we

try to open the door and uh if you open

that door

you know it was uh it was really scary

you know and if you when you heard your

mom like fighting back because to be

fair my mom she's a strong woman you

know and my dad uh say that now he say

like don't play with your mom because

she's a strong woman. So

in in that time yeah when you experience

that you you just terrorize you like

what's what's going on you know it's

your parents they should like kiss each

other so yeah

and you look back on that moment he left

obviously incredibly sad moment but are

you happy that he left considering

the problem you know when you're kid you

you don't really understand

I was happy because my um at the end you

know she was uh she was happy but to see

your dad left leaving no matter which

reason you can't be happy

uh now I understand the reason uh I

forgive him

but uh saying I was happy no

so he leaves your life takes a a turn

after that because you've lost that

figure in your life and maybe a bit of I

don't know restriction has left the

family home so

you can act on other motivations and

incentives and other ways to survive I

guess and what what's the what person

did you become after that

I would say a warrior like

a warrior

yeah I think a survivor

because after like I say you know it's

you in the street and

oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh

oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh I kill you or

you kill me you know when you grow up in

the street that's why I hate when some

people they talk about their background

and they'll say like oh I was a gangster

no I would never call myself a gangster

I was just a survivor and it was

difficult you know so yeah like you say

when he left no more restriction going

out fighting outside

lying to your mom uh the police, you

know, bring me one day home around 100

a.m. My mom was so worried like, and I

remember it was so funny because some

words I didn't even know what they mean.

So when they bring me back home and my

mom was, you know, just she put her like

a hand on him mouth, what's going on?

She was, you know, his his son, you

know, bring back from the police and I

was like, "Mom, mommy, I just being an

accomplice." [laughter]

[clears throat] and she beat me like so

bad. But now I understand it's even

worse, you know, because I was like, I

didn't steal. I just was looking when my

friend was stealing and stuff like that.

So, it was just a mess. And um no one,

even my school teacher, when they were

talking to me at school, I was like,

"Can you put the volume down? You're not

my dad." So, I didn't let anyone, you

know, talking like saying, "You can't do

this, you can't do that." But I always

respect my mom. uh and my brother and my

sister

and I was uh I was respectful with my

friend but when someone tried to give me

some authority

he couldn't have it because I was like

the one I have like the most authority

on me it was my dad he left so now I

don't need any authority from no one

and you get you start I read you started

stealing things

you started selling weed

yeah I think stealing was uh was normal

because I was like with my friend I

remember the first time I I steal it was

uh some gum and you know I was hungry up

with my friend they were stealing I

wasn't because I was still like having a

good education from my dad from my mom

and to be part of the group you need to

you know it's like some people when they

drink because they they find that excuse

to be like social

was stealing so I start steal and

everyone clapped me so I was like wow

finally I'm part of the done. And from

there you go like to deal like video

games, uh to sell weed, you know, to

having the best like sneakers and, you

know, even offering some stuff to your

girlfriend. I offer even like a perfume

to my mom, you know, and I was so proud

because I was like at the end, you know,

my dad left, a few of my brother and

sister left after that also. So I was

like, I'm the man. I need to be in

charge. I need to feed my family.

It wasn't the right way every time, but

at least I was like, you know, my mom

like when I offer him like a bottle of

perfume and I see how happy she was, but

she was like always, where that come

from? And I was like lying, you know,

it's just my friend, you know, he he

bought it for me, but I was me. He was

myself stealing it.

Some years after your father left, you

did you talk about in the book in the

opening chapters of the book about your

headmaster?

Yeah. and you were 13 years old. You um

you ended up staying at his house and he

sexually assaulted you.

Yeah.

I think

this is was

one of the

most regret I had in my life to not

speak up in that day.

Um,

how did you come to be at his house?

It's really simple. It's because

uh Bretoni it was far from my house. I

have to take two train to go to school

because I went to that school because it

was a school where you know you're good

at football you after school you have to

train. So it wasn't an academy but it

was a school where you can train also.

So it was a good opportunity to be fair.

My mom was like, "It's he's good. He's

he's leaving the street because he will

end up in jail or dead." So, it's

perfect for him. So, I went there and I

was taking like, you know, two train 4

hours sometime and uh losing my uh my

school bag, sleeping on the train, you

know, even sometime end up like to

another destination. So, it was a mess.

And uh that school teacher, Ed's

teacher, he he speak to He said, "Do you

want like to stay?" Because I living I'm

living inside the the the school. He

have his home inside the school. So I

went back home and I say to my mom, you

know, he offered that. And my mom was

like not sure about it at the beginning

because even when I tell her, I will

speak later about it. She she said, "I

knew it." And she was like, "Are you

sure? Can you trust this man?" I was

like, "Yeah, you seem nice, Mom." So

that head teacher at the beginning

everything was perfect. He was uh

cooking for me in the evening. He was

letting me play his Nintendo. He had the

Nintendo at the time. So I was like,

"Yeah, that's that's cool." You know, I

don't need to go back home on the

weekend and uh I just stay here. And uh

then

every night I was in my bed and uh every

time he was coming you know in my room

and I was the first time I was like

maybe you know just say come to say good

night

but he was uh I was sleeping and I was

feeling a hand on my body and I was like

oh what's going on you know then he was

trying to touch me but I was like

holding his hand so it was like a fight

for for 10 it uh and I was still

couldn't understand. I was 13 but you

know I I I didn't have any uh sexual

relation even with any girls at that

time. So for me it was everything was

new. I was like what's what's going on

you know um we fight many time and he

didn't succeed and he was you know now

when I have those image in my head I

could hear him trying to touch me and

touching himself in the same time next

to the bed you know then he was living

and every time I was like oh he's gone

so he's start to become a ritual every

time I go to bed he coming the same

things fight everything fight fight and

uh one day

you know I was even attaching my pajama

with my laces like I remember yeah shoe

laces

because to make sure like he can't put

it down and uh to be fair you know he

was trying like on the top of my clothes

but fighting say so one day he did he

put my pants down and he put uh my penis

in his mouth

and I was just like terrorized I

remember I was I I just freeze,

you know. I knock his head, but I and I

just freeze. I I couldn't I didn't

understand what's going on. Then he

left.

Then I wake up. I can't even remember

what's happened because you know those

things you just like erase them from

your memory.

So I back to school. I think in school I

was thinking about what's what's

happening is like something not normal.

Then then I went home. I say, "Mom, I

don't want to sleep anymore to that ed

teacher." She said, "Why?" I said, "No,

I just don't want."

I never tell her the reason until now.

So

after that, I I live all my life with

that from the street, you know, you come

back, you like imagine you tell that to

one of your friend, they're going to

say, you know, you're weak, all of those

stuff.

So

even for me when I had my first sexual

relation,

it was weird because I had this man in

my head, you know, and this I never told

that to anyone. So I was like massively

traumatized

then

actually because all of that I back to

my school where I grew up in the street

and I stopped even going to that school.

Even like people were like, "But you're

so good at football. Why?" I say, "I

don't need it. I will keep training on

my own on the street, you know, I don't

want to be in that school anymore."

[sighs] So yeah, I grew up with that

things for so many years. And what I

feel as a coat is when I was 24 years

old, not 20 years old

and I was still playing for Monaco at

the time and the police called me.

Sorry Mr. the number of Patricia. Yeah.

Um you know we got lot of complain about

that a teacher. I don't even remember

his name. I don't I could even tell you

his face because I erased all of this in

my memory. Uh

there's been a lot of complaint about

child they being abused about that ed

teacher.

Did he touch you? No.

Are you sure? Yes, I'm sure. And I was

angry even when people asked me that

question, you know. I was like, "Oh,

there someone asked me about that. Put

the phone down."

So all this year I was like, "Wow,

Patrice, you had the opportunity when

you were 13 years old. You didn't. I

will understand. But now you're 20 and

you couldn't just what? Because you're

still shame of it because you're famous.

You scar of the reaction of the people.

But doing that that day, that's why

growing up when people say, "Patrice,

you're good guys." I I wasn't feeling

that that way because I was feeling as a

coward.

A coward.

A coward. Yeah. Because he wasn't about

Patrice. It was about the other child I

let down when the police called me. It's

about the other child is still being

abused right now.

So coming out with this

helped me a lot. And I have to say a

massive thanks to the woman of my life

Margo because you know sometime people

say you need a psycholog but in life

sometime it's about which person you

meet. I'm someone I really believe in

energy and to be fair after that

trusting anyone a psycholog I would say

maybe I will tell him this he don't care

it's just pay for that job some of them

are really good I never I never meet any

psycho but made that woman like

she was a a romantic partner

yeah she she she make me

being myself and being honest with

myself don't be shame of anything baby

and I'm Yeah. And I will never me

Patrice the tough guys don't showing

emotion

think a woman can you know extract those

real emotion from myself. I was like wow

years old.

There was a day you told you shared that

with her.

Yeah.

Can you tell me about that day?

Like I say the day I shared that with

her it was uh you know when she met me I

was 38. So I was just uh retired from

football

doing all my things and oh my god you

you seem so happy and such a positive

man

but I do you care about yourself which

is I say yeah and she asked me one

simple question are you happy?

[laughter]

Yes, I'm happy. I'm happy. You know, I

make you happy. I make my But Patrice,

what make you happy?

Uh, [snorts]

I'm happy. No, I just saying like I'm

happy. This is not an answer. So, she go

deep

and we didn't talk about the subject. I

say no, I'm fine. She said, "No, because

I can see yes, you're an impulsive

person. You like to fight. you say

because this from the street and

everything but I think you got

something. You got a pain on your chest

and you don't want I was like I'm fine.

I'm fine.

Then one day

we watch something and it was about

pedophile and stuff. So

again she look at my face she said like

you okay? I said yeah I'm okay. Why you

ask me? No, Patrice,

I feel you. You're hiding something.

I said, why? Why you? You know, I don't

like when people want to try inside. Go

to get inside. I'm fine. I was still

closing the door. If you love me, you

should like tell me what's going on. I

need to I need to know already.

I look at her. I just try crying like a

baby. I cry like a baby.

She me

what's going on? And I tell her the full

story. So she cry.

She was like, "I knew. Thank you. Have

you say that to someone, to the police,

to your mom?" I said, "No, you are the

first person and I don't want to say to

anybody else.

Do you want to see a

do you go for do you want to go for

therapy?" And I said, "I'm fine. I told

you. No, Patrice. You're going to

explode one day. You need to, you know,

let it out.

Then when I cry and uh I feel much

better about myself. And I was still

like, you know, I cry in front of her

now. She will take advantage of me. She

will think I'm weak. But she was like,

you know, baby, I I even love you more.

This is a strain. stop thinking this is

a weakness. That's when she introduced

me

to that toxic masculinity. Couldn't

understand before. She explained me what

it was about. Like being a man is not

like being strong or but I was like this

is my education. This is the way I grow

up. This is why the dad like many dad

they do the same mistake. And I did the

same with my first child. Lenny sometime

he was talking to me. I was like you got

everything. Why you complain? Come on.

Ah, daddy. You know, when I was doing

this, come on. Don't be weak. Ah, daddy.

You know, it's painful. Ah, it's okay.

When I think about all of that now, I'm

like, cuz I live with that toxic

masculinity.

And I think men

like us, I have to change that.

Crying is a strain. And you know, when

you grow in the streets, just like

holding the hand of your girlfriend is a

sign of weakness. You're not allowed to

do that.

So

I'm discovering myself.

[clears throat] Who going to believe

that? I'm 38 years old. Now I'm 40. I

will start to discover myself. Now

everything makes sense. That trauma make

me become who I am. Like sometime a

soldier like no emotion. I'm going to do

the job. Sometime I win some trophy, we

celebrate. It was fake. I didn't I

wasn't like that happy. If you ask me

Patrice,

are you happy now? I say yes. Now I'm

complete. I'm content. I feel blessed

and I feel lucky. But when I used to

play football, I was a robot. I was just

doing my job.

Your brother,

you talked about the fact that you

started dealing drugs back when you were

younger and then your your brother

started taking drugs.

Yeah.

This was uh

another massive trauma. You know, when

you wake up in the in the morning and

you just want to go in the toilet and

you open the door and you see your your

brother with a you know

uh a how you say it

a needle.

A needle. Yeah.

and looking at you with like eyes, you

know, like red eyes and

just closing the door and you have to

hold on your your you know, if you want

to pee, you have to hold it because it's

there and it was one toilet the whole

house. So, and this teach me

to never

touch any drug because I saw my brother

and he lost his life because of that.

He lost his life.

He died as a overdose in Sagal. He even

sell his uh his document, his French

passport and he went in Sagal and one

day they called my mom. My auntie say

your son is dead in a bathroom.

So it was tough for me to talk about

this in my book because my mom, she's

the son of my mom and I don't have the

right to talk about it in my book cuz

we're talking about a dead person. But I

just unfortunately

this show me like taking drug I can lose

my life. Like the same for alcohol. Uh

I didn't drink until I was 33 years old

because for me a glass of alcohol it was

the homeless people living on my street

and anyway my mom and my dad don't

drink. So I never had that culture. So

that's why I couldn't understand when I

came in England and people were drinking

even like footballer players and you

know when we were going to party they

were always say to the waitress can we

have a hot chocolate for Patrice

because the alcohol and the drugs it was

like you're going to end up dead poison

you know

you um so going back to this topic of

toxic masculinity it's something I've

actually been thinking a lot about

because my girlfriend funnily enough has

started to talk to me a lot about the

idea. This is why I was just remaining

quiet and listening first, but but um

she started talking to me a lot about

the idea of the masculine and the

feminine and how a rounded healthy man

embodies both sides of him and is able

to tap into both sides of him. Sounds

like your early years um made you use

one of those sides, which is the

masculine side, as a form of

self-defense in many ways, as a way to

survive. cuz I'm think I'm I'm hearing

what you went through and I'm thinking

the you know using the feminine energy

the the emotion the expression of you

know one's how someone feels care the

softness wouldn't have been conducive

with survival in that situation. So as

you get 40 years on how do you then

unlearn your survival technique? How do

you how do you unlearn the the masculine

defensive don't cry, don't show

weakness, which you now know is is um

important for you to have good

relationships, romantic relationships,

to be balanced yourself, to be open, to

be expressive, and to not self-destruct.

What I love about you is the way you

question myself. You even make me think,

but you're right. if I have this

feminine, you know, emotion in that

time, I won't survive

because we know women are more emotional

than than men.

So, what you just say to me, I'm like,

"Yeah, Patrice, you [clears throat] want

to fight against that uh toxic

masculinity, but you're happy when you

need it

now because you're 40 years old, you

don't need it anymore."

And you're a dad now, so you're going to

teach.

You're going to teach. But I'll be

honest with you, that's why you know my

woman was scared when we have our our

son. Uh she was like Patrice

before he born. I don't want him to be

like you. Wow. Put that on my face. What

do you mean? Yeah. I want him to be

determinate, passion, funny, positive,

but I don't want him to have your

emotion.

Yeah. I was like, "But I think you know

when you cry, I will say like don't

don't cry." She was, "That's exactly

what I'm talking about. When you cry, I

want you to say it's okay. Let your

emotion out, but it's difficult for me

at the beginning." So, I was like, "Nah,

I want I I don't want him to cry when he

fall and everything."

And the funny part is

when she was still pregnant

uh you know when woman this is more

about relationship because now I know

relationship is not just about love is

about caring and communication you know

I don't want to be like now the the

priest or because when I talk like

there's so many people like that oh I

wish my husband is like you no I've been

the bad guys too so don't get me wrong

but now I'm more like feeling [snorts]

like so back to that moment. We were in

the car. She was with a a drink and I

said, "Don't drink because it's bumpy

and you're going to" And she hate like,

you know, having mark on her. She drink

on the shirt. Yes. Spit on the shirt.

She cry.

I promise you, Steve. I cry instantly

with her because I feel her. I feel a a

a sadness

the the whole Patrice will be like but

come on why you crying just because you

speak come on but in that moment I

didn't I wasn't focused on the the

reason why she's crying I was like just

on the emotion she's crying she's in

pain

you don't need to fix it need a hug the

moment she saw me crying she stopped

crying she stopped crying straight

And for me it was new. I was like what's

going on? I can even feel your pain. You

know sometime you say you love someone

but this is like a deep love. Like even

now she cry. I cry automatically. Even

now we talking and when she's next to me

I miss her. I never experienced that.

And now it's so special. to come back to

uh my son

when he cry now you know my woman can be

ah come on Lilas ah I'm like but it's

okay you know it must be a reason

because he's angry so I'm the one softer

now

so that's what I'm like wow but you're

just a different man we had a rule if we

argue because don't get me wrong we

argue like normal couple we're not

special But it's just like we don't put

it under the carpet. We fix it. But not

like we force it in a natural way. When

for example we argue straight away and

she say we need to talk because woman

say we need to talk. I'm not ready. We

need to talk. I'm not. No. Give me my

space.

Then I come back. Okay. Let's talk about

it. I'm apologize. But I'm apologize

because I mean it

not because you forced me to apologize.

And you're not trying to win.

I'm not trying to win. And then I

understand I'm like okay baby how lucky

we are the special love we have right

now like I will never believe the way I

believe in love right now that's why I'm

encouraging all the kids the next

generation this love exist but it exists

so the it's again you you sounds like

you're just recounting my life

specifically over I met I met a lady

she's called uh I would say it Melanie

and uh she she was very keen She said

very similar things to me. She was like,

"There's something you've not told me

about, etc." And her real sort of drive

with me has been trying to make me tap

into the feminine side of me, which

again means opening up, being

vulnerable, removing my ego.

When we argue, it's to try and solve a a

problem as opposed to trying to win. And

that also, and she slowly got this

different person out of me. In my

previous relationship, snapping. Ah,

leave. I'll just leave. Right. Yeah. And

in this one, it's like she lets me

speak, I let her speak. Okay. Sometimes

we But we're both trying to understand

the person. And the thing that really

changed, and it's funny cuz when you

talked about that day when you opened up

with your partner about what had gone

on, she created a safe space. And once

you have that safe space and you learn

that this is a safe space, this

relationship is a safe space. Oh yes.

You don't have to be that person you

were in the streets, [laughter] right?

You don't even have to be the person you

are in the group chat on WhatsApp. You

can cry. You can say, "Babe, I I feel

insecure. I feel triggered." And that

for me has been this like

tremendous catalyst in myself because

now I can really investigate myself with

someone,

right? And know that they're not going

to laugh at me or think I'm not a man.

Yeah.

Because I'm crying or because I'm I've

got feelings, right? And that that meant

that again when you just described the

way you feel about her, the sense like

when she's not by your side, you didn't

know a love like this existed. I was

saying that this morning. I've just left

her in Indonesia and I was saying I

didn't realize I could have a

relationship like this with someone

where every argument we have heals our

relationship to a stronger place. It

doesn't leave a scratch or a scar which

and that's the thing you know

but you you resume it perfectly and like

you say sometime when we have a

discussion like we our love even get

even more stronger

stronger right

cuz we are in love with each other but

what I like what you say a word safe

yeah safe space is a safe space

feeling safe

allow to be yourself

I'll say that to my girlfriend now so

I'll say this sounds like I've never

said this before but I'll literally say

to her I need a safe space and that

means that I'm about to say some things

which might trigger you, might make you

unhappy, but I need to say it cuz it's

how I feel. So, I'll literally say give

me a safe space.

Yeah.

And that means listen to me.

But it but exactly, you know, I think is

is easy to to listen to someone but to

understand a person, you know, to saying

I heard you.

This is different.

Yeah.

You mean you really understand because

you can talk for many hours. I'm like,

yeah, I'm listening.

Yeah. You're not you're waiting to

speak. You're building your your

argument against

No, but but but exactly. But what you

say, I think we really similar and

I I was excited to come today and I'm

even more happy to be here and to keep

like talking. We can talk I think many

hours and I just feel like so open even

talking about you.

You asked me a few question about why my

dad leave. Many things [clears throat]

like

it was not easy to not cry but

I like that. But this is something this

is something that men need to hear. And

you think about just from what we've

both learned from our stories there with

relationships, but just even two men

having a conversation like this, how how

freeing that is for us, how it's healing

for us, but also it allows us to form

relationships which are real and deep

and meaningful where we don't want to be

running out in the street. And so I it's

you know it's one of the real things I

think is going to form a big part of of

my life too as you've successfully done

with this book is trying to tell men

without having to meet the women like we

met

how to be in touch with their

the true I don't even want to say the

feminine side the the the full version

of themsel

I absolut I think I I no but I I

absolutely agree with you because it's a

challenge because we have a little help

because we find someone [clears throat]

like you say we feel open and we can you

know you can be your yourself but yeah I

think we we should fight with that toxic

masculinity because it's no good even

for yourself but even for your children

for [clears throat] many for many reason

but the you test me by saying Patrice if

you didn't have that masculine you know

masculinity tox toxic masculinity how

you will be able to survive in that when

you were that kid and I will be look at

you straight away and saying no So

it's a good subject and I hope if you

want to debate more about it, I will be

a good client. [laughter]

Either way, we have to unlearn it,

right? We have to unlearn it once we

realize that it's not serving us. And

that is admittedly a very slow process,

one that goes, you know, cuz even I some

I have to be very aware of that part of

me, the masculine ego part of me. And I

always think with trauma and with these

kinds of things, you never actually

fully recover. I I think the most

important thing is to put it out in

front of you so that it's no longer

controlling your life from the back room

and ruining your relationships and

stuff. Just for me, like I've got a lot

of traumas from my childhood with my

parents and what their relationship.

I still have them and I just have them

out in front of me and the power they

have over me is diminished. I know what

the triggers are. I know, I understand

them, and I just want to keep them out

in front of me so I can hopefully live a

happy life. Quick one. It's now the

fourth quarter of the year. We're coming

into the winter months here in the UK,

November, December, January. These are

always, according to my Apple Watch, the

months where my diet and my fitness fall

off every single year. And for me, that

means I tend to resort to junk food and

I tend to stop going to the gym and

working out. And this is why for me in

the fourth quarter, Hule is now my

savior. I really, really, really mean

that. If you're the type of person that

can resonate what I've just said and

tends to fall off with your diet and

your fitness in the fourth quarter, one

thing I suggest you do is order a Hu

subscription. Get it in your fridge

because for me, if it's there, I'll

drink it. If it's not, I'll probably

have a pizza at 4:00 a.m. in the morning

and fries and a burger and um an Oreo

milkshake. So, having it in my home

makes health convenience. So, order your

heel subscription. Join me on this

journey. I'm announcing something soon

actually for people that want to get in

shape in the new year. super excited to

talk to you about that. And um he your

diet, avoiding junk food, being healthy,

vitamins, minerals, proteins, and no

crap is going to be a big part of that.

And for me, that's that's why hu is in

my life. Football.

[laughter] Bit of a segue.

Um

you're very good at football. [laughter]

I'm I'm trying to figure out what like

how you became so good at football with

all of that stuff happening in your life

and that cauldron you're in and what

football was for you as a young man.

Everything. So football saved my life.

When my friend they were stealing to get

away from the stealing I was like

training on my own even when it was

snowing. But come on Patrice, you're

never going to to succeed anyway. You're

from the street. You you're uh you're a

black person. You will never going to

make it. you know, just find a white

girlfriend with lot of money. That's was

the the way the people Yeah. think in my

street uh stop, you know, you look cute,

you can just find a girl and you know, I

was like, no, you know, I love football

and I need to training every day. I

remember even at school sometime when

the we went to school and the teacher

couldn't make it because of the traffic

or the snow and they were like okay we

freeze some kids they were wanted to go

back home. I was like, "No, no, no.

There's a football pitch just next to

the school. We have to play." And I was

threatened them sometime. They couldn't

like some kid. I was like, "If you don't

come, I'm going to beat you." And they

were coming and training. Yeah. I was

forcing people to play football with me.

Why?

It's an addiction. I don't know. It was

my reason of leaving.

Is it your escape from life?

I think I could say it was both. It was

my escape, but it was also my love, my

passion. Just when you give me like a

football bowl, it was like everything

for me, you know. I remember that eight

teacher the first day you you come at

school and they ask what you want to

become later and many people were

lawyers uh policemen um many good job

doctor and and me she was looking right

um reading what my note and footballer

player but I didn't even know what was

football player. I was like I play

football but so I'm football aer player

and she was taking my note in front of

everyone and she was like Patrice think

football a player is a job and everyone

was laughing everyone my friend I was

looking so and she was going even deeper

she was uh but you know if is a trial

and 300 kids they will pick one kid

do you think it's going to be you? I was

like, "Yes." And everyone was even more

laughing. But at the end now, I don't

want to get any revenge with that

teacher. I just want to make sure she

don't say the same things to other kids

because me in that time I was really

strong mentally. So no one, you know,

can project their own fear because some

people I hate those people when you say

I'm going to this. No, you can't.

Because they try to projecting their own

failure on you. me now if a kids I was

you know I see some some some kid at the

school in Manchester and I was like if

you want to become the president of the

universe go for it you're going to have

lots of enemies and make a lot of

sacrifice

there's no president of the universe

I know it doesn't ex

even the like the job doesn't exist go

for it go for it if you dream about it

and that's that's was the beauty of me

when I was child like everyone like I

did the trial at PSG and I did

everything perfect. At the end he say

you're too small and you're from the

street and we scare you going to steal

things in the dressing room.

Yeah, that's why PSG that's what the

coach told me and they didn't take me

just for those two reason.

Okay. [laughter] So, so I have lot of

like you won't make it and more people

do that more I'm like that's why I say

I'm lucky mentally I can't tell you why

I'm that strong maybe about from my dad

my mom or all the things I have to

survive but this was even making me more

stronger.

Did you have a plan B?

No, I didn't have any plan B. This was

all or nothing. And that's the scary

things when I think about it now because

some of my friend or some people they

were like Patrice you know school is

important you should have your diploma

and stuff. I was like I want to be a

footballer player but I get in shock

when I knew actually playing football

you can win money. I wasn't aware about

that like when I signed my first

contract when I was 17. I didn't care

about the money in that time. It will

make you laugh. You know what I was most

happy is when I saw my tracksuit on the

on the bed and I wear it and I was

looking myself in the mirror and I was

oh my god. And I went downstairs to join

the team and I see all the players

sitting the table and people coming to

serving them the food. It was remember

like three fork in one side, three knife

on one side.

I called my mom. I said, "Mom,

I'm even like this is paradise. people

serving us the food. I've got like three

now. I've got a tracksuit. We all dress

the same. And my mom cry at the phone. I

remember that day.

So,

you know when people ask me, "What is

your best memory when you play

football?"

That's was my best memory. Not winning

the Champions League or is when I was

17,

you know, that kid and just just having

food.

and a normal tracksuit

make me so happy and that's my best

memory I had since I play football

cuz you you'd made it

I made it that day I was like I made it

mama

I won't be in the street anymore I won't

have to survive to fight I won't have to

beg

So it was just crazy. And even in that

time even some people they still take

advantage because when I signed my first

contract actually

I signed a paper with the mafia the

Italian mafia and I was their uh

[clears throat] property and I didn't

doubt I found out this when after I

wanted to move for is Roma and is Roma

we say we have to call up the deal

because you're the property of that man

and it was a guy from the mafia And

actually on that time I remember when I

first my my first contract I was earning

uh it was like 50 pound now per month

and we had like five months where they

didn't pay us. Uh I remember my mom and

my brother they come to visit me in

Sicily and you know a breast chicken one

breast chicken was for three days we had

to cut it like in cube little cube. I

remember she was like twisting in a

little bag and that's it. That's was for

the meal for sometime we had only one

meal per day but I was happy and I

remember my mom come to visit me in

Sicily and she cried. She said but what

you doing here

you know I was like mommy I just love

football. She was like but you have

nothing. Look where you live. I was you

know it was like if you see my first

flat I mean like they allowed me to live

on that flat. It was disaster. But I was

happy because I had football. And every

time when I was training or when we

played the game, I was scared to the

referee to to blow the final whistle

because I was like, "What I'm going to

do now? I'm back to the reality." So for

me, playing was

it was just a dream.

[clears throat]

Hard to imagine. It's hard to

[clears throat] hard to imagine how how

difficult life must be for you to not

want the whistle to blow on a on a

football game. Was

there a moment where where that changed

and where you no longer started to dread

the final whistle blowing because your

life off the pitch was somewhere to look

forward to

is when I uh [clears throat]

I get rid of those people around me and

the the mafia and I I sign with a new

agent and u I signed for N so I go back

to France a bigger salary I I think I

was uh earning something like uh 3K per

month. So much better life be able to

even help my mom. And from that moment I

was like okay now I'm safe. I'm safe.

And after you know I signed for Monaco

of course and I keep my word. I say you

know when my dad left and in school they

give you like a little money and my dad

was taking this money to send it to

Seneagal to my other brother and sister.

So I remember my sister

went after my mom like you know with

true lawyers and everything she get that

money from the school and not my dad

anymore. My sister get that money and

she go to buy like some makeup and

everything. I was like, "Shame on you."

Oh, mom. Like, she feeding us every

single day. Like, and why you don't give

that money? And I I say, "Me, mommy, I

don't want anything. This is for you

because we're living in your roof.

You're feeding us every day. This is for

you." No, but Patrice, this is for you.

Mommy, I don't need this. And I say,

"Mom,

when I'm going to have my big contract,

the first things I going to do because

that's was my motivation is to buy a

house to my mom." And I did it. And I

think that's was one of the most pride

moment of my life because I say to my

mom and I keep my word and I bought her

a house in Sineagal. Before I bought of

course with my money when I play for

Monaco my Porsche and everything cars

cuz I I like cars. Not now anymore

because I understand how stupid it is.

But yeah, that's was uh one of my

biggest achievement because

you must have been proud, right?

My [snorts] mom uh my mom cry every time

she see me because uh sometimes she's

like you don't you it's many things you

don't know Patrice like when you were

like alone and no one wanted to help us

and now that's why it's so funny when

suddenly you are someone and people they

like your auntie come back or your uncle

but they weren't there when you know we

need them the most so she always cries

she say I'm too nice but me I'm like I

don't have any hate in my heart. It's

difficult.

And uh Manchester United,

I'm uh yeah, I can't

can't imagine what that would have been

like getting a getting a call that

that's uh

But you will laugh because before United

I was start being over I will call it

overconfident and arrogant. I was

playing for Monaco. I reached the final

of Champions League

being named four time in the world the

best left back in the French league

playing for the national team. So I

remember my agent came and he said

Patrice you know in January he say like

teams like you have in Liverpool

Manchester United

I say yeah cool

I say and

what stuck in my head when he say

Manchester United can counter

really

yeah can you know

yeah the colors yeah

wow I say okay Manchester I wear ka yeah

cuz I wasn't following Really?

Yeah. I can tell you something. I I

don't watch football.

You're supposed to say it was a

childhood dream.

Yeah. It was just like it's just me. I'm

playing football. So watching football

is like going to work. That's when I was

young. But now as a pundit I have to

watch football game. But it's something

I never been interested and it's

something I never enjoyed. So I didn't

know although sometime I was watching

some result Manchester United because of

Conta. So I say to my yeah okay. He said

you should go to Manchester. I think

Manchester suit you. say why not

then uh we met uh sir Alex Ferguson

because at that time you know I still

playing for Monaco so you can't be

approached by another team you know you

broke the rules so we met uh in the

airport

in a secret room yeah [laughter]

secret room yeah in secret room in the

airport

and that day that interview was like

being interviewed by the FBI it was Like

do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you like

to party? Are [snorts] you ready to not

lose one game? Are you ready to not even

draw a game?

Yes.

Sir Alex said,

"Yeah, he shake my hands." He said, "Now

you shake my hands." So that's you know

playing for Man United everything I say

that's what you you will have to do and

all those stuff even if some people they

drink and they do many things but it was

about more the winning mentality.

And when he shake my hand, he looked

straight in my eyes. And when you look

straight at his eyes, you make sure you

don't disappoint him. So what I love

about Ferguson is that day also he say,

you know, son, we know your background.

You know where you come from, but just

be yourself. I won't change you. I just

want you to bleed for United, for the

fun, for the people from Manchester, you

know, uh work ethic.

And it was already in my DNA. So when I

joined United, I was like finally I can

be myself because even in France playing

for Monaco when sometime I was saying

like I want to be the best left back or

I am the best. Oh he's too arrogant is

this. So the French media they didn't

understand me. They were like you know

he's too arrogant. And I win also the

the youngest French player in the league

and normally only striker like Andre

Zidan. I was the first defender to win

those kind of trophies. So I was like

overconfident.

So when I joined Manchester and Ferguson

tell me all those word it was a

different story.

I was like finally I can express myself

like say you know in France they will

build him the guillotin in Manchester

they will build him a statue

[clears throat]

and that's the truth because in

Manchester they let you be yourself. you

know, even if you know, you have to kick

a fan or stuff, they will still be

behind. They know it's wrong,

but you still feel the support.

You still feel you're part of the

family. So, we're going to accept you,

you know, uh the way you are. And that's

what's really important even if I think

everyone know the story of my first

game.

Didn't go so well.

Yeah. Uh

just a crazy because I I just came back

I just trained with the team three days.

We had a derby against Manchester City

playing at 12. I never play at 12 in my

life apart when I was kid but never play

at 12. Come for the breakfast. 9 I see

Mikuel Sylvester Louisa my my French

teammate eating beans

you know pasta. I'm not a good breakfast

guy. So I start doing the same, you

know. I'm like, "Okay, in this league,

you know, you need to to eat because

it's a strong league. I eat, I feel

sick. I went in my room. I vomit."

I said, "I need to call the doc and you

need to say to the manager, I can't play

that game." But I was like, "Patric, you

just sign. You can't say that again.

Toxic masculinity." They will say, "I'm

weak. I'm scared."

I play. I say I play. Don't ask me why.

You know in Manchester it's never sunny.

In 9 years I just done like three

barbecue in 9 years. That day was so

hot. The sun was like on my I was like

did I'm back to Monte Carlo. I was like

what's going on here? [laughter] I

remember the first the first ball Trevor

Sinclair just headb me. I was cut

straight away. He was like welcome to

England. Welcome to the Premier League.

And in one point one point I was against

the post. I remember, you know, when you

have those bubble the cartoon and you,

you know, writing what you think about.

I was like, "Oh my god, what the hell

I'm doing here? The football is so fast,

so strong. I should have keep chilling

in Monte Carlo." [laughter]

So

losing two-nil halftime, Ferguson give

the air dryer to everyone and he come to

me say, "You now you sit and you learn

the English football." So I didn't

understand because you know I didn't

speak very well English and Carlos Kerio

was the one like translating and I put

my you know the doctor was like cleaning

my blood and and I put my and Carlos K

said no no Patrice is it's over it's

finished like you sub so imagine me

playing for France best left back

being [clears throat] sub after the

first 45 minutes but he he he get even

worse and worse after that so we lose

the I back home and my Italian agent

with his wife were staying with me in my

flat and my agent looked at me like

this. He said, "Batrice, I'm sorry."

Say, "What?" He said, "I should never

book you in Manchester. I'm sorry. You

should have stay in Monaco, you know."

And his wife on the background looking

at me. I promise to say that that day I

was so low. I was like even my own agent

he don't believe in me anymore. I was

like wow. So after that I know I play a

Liverpool game a good game. We win 1

zero. Rio Ferdino scored the winning

goal and everything and I had a great

game. So he back but the first six

months was really difficult for me and

Nemana Vid we came we arrive at the same

time. We even play with the reserve and

we get ser again

in the reserve.

In the reserve.

Imagine me and Nemana Vid in the shower.

I remember I say oh my Asian say you

know I Roma I will maybe go back in

Italy. VidC was like okay I will go to

small school also they they want me back

and stuff.

So all of that my teammate were

laughing. Rio Wayne Rooney when in the

training I was like sleeping and they

were like laughing when someone was you

know shorter you they were laughing and

I remember one day P schools when I make

it when you respect me say you know

Patrice I I think you were like a joke.

I I even asked like the boss if he can

sell you back to Monaco but for free.

Send you back for free. Yeah. and I look

at them, you know, all those things, you

know, when I saw my teammate laughing

when I was not playing a game, he didn't

put me down. I was like, I'm going to

show them who is the real Patrice

because it's difficult when you come to

a club like, you know, end of January

because, you know, you miss half of the

season. So, after I missed the World

Cup, my fellow French teammate Luisa and

Mikuel C, they went to the World Cup

2006. I was filming. I back to Monaco. I

was in the gym all the summer. Uh I was

looking the French national team

reaching the final of World Cup but they

lose against Italy.

So I was like okay I understand the

football in in England now. It's like

you have to be strong first then after

you can play with your feet. So I get

some muscle everything. I came back to

the preseason. We had a preseason in

South Africa. I was the man the the man

of the tournament. And I remember Mick

Fan the second coach he came and he

shake my hand said now you are United

players from that day even before the

season start I know I will make it and

the rest is history.

You played in a lot of teams. I sat here

with Ry Ferdinand as well. I asked him a

very similar question. What was it that

made Manchester United achieve the

success they achieved?

It's so many things you know when you

say I can say like the work getting the

discipline

uh the passion

the [clears throat] I think he's also

the character personality I think

Ferguson

he wanted to meet player in person to

see if he can feel their character their

personality if they're going to be ready

to to handle the pressure

playing for Manchester the pressure is a

is a gift is a privilege like I want to

add pressure like I didn't want Ferguson

to say you play a good game. I want

Ferguson like to give me the air dryer.

It was little bit like it's is really

weird but I didn't expect any compliment

like for me playing for under sir Alex

Ferguson and Manchester United. I wasn't

I never scared of anyone. I never scared

of Sir Alex Ferguson but I was scared to

disappointing him. So it's about

respect. What make Manchester United it

was like I have many coach they say

winning is important but focus on

winning in United is normal like the

goal is to win like four trophy per

season. I will I will tell you a story

when we won the Champions League in

2008.

Exciting. We went on the plane putting

the music loud you know dancing.

Ryan Giggs look at me. Can can you know

can you put this? I was like, "Hey, we

just win the Champions League and the

Premier League." Yeah, yeah, but you

know, we need to sleep. We need to rest.

I was like, "Okay, that's that's weird."

We land. Ferguson, I remember we were on

the bus and he take the mic. He say,

"Congratulation.

Well done. I'm proud of you to champion

of Europe. But, uh, next year

if you don't want to win it again, I

will end many contract of many player of

you. If you don't I don't feel the same

passion and the same anger now because

he was the Euro 2008. Now go and enjoy

having the and you use the fake the f

word with your with your national team.

Boom. No parade, no celebration with the

fan. I remember I went home and I was

with my back. I dropped it. I was like

this is the feeling of winning the

Champions League and the league. I was

like wow. But the problem

you become a robot.

So you're not even happy when you win

the league. the years and years I was

you know when we celebrate and uh was

fake

inside it was just pretending of course

is a release is an achievement but

because you just become a machine a

robot winning that's the only things

matter and that's why he he goes to play

for Man United but also sacrifice you

know when I talk about sacrifice I'm not

shame about you even have to sacrifice

your own family.

That's what I did. I give you an

example. You know, my first son, Lenny,

he was 3 years old. And I came back home

one day and he was crying. I said, "Why

are you crying?" He said, "Because I

hate Manchester United." I said, "Why?"

He said, "Because they they took my dad

away."

And you know the the United fan, they

have a flag where they united

kids and wife in that order. I never

laugh in that flag. A lot of people

laugh. I never because that's that's the

the that's what he caused me to succeed

at United was United. That's why I had a

really strong relationship with Ferguson

because he knew

I don't need Manchester United. I love

Manchester United and I could like die

for this club and I still could die for

this club for the fan and for any

manager. So

to play for Manchester United,

it cost you your life, your normal life.

You you're part of another family.

It's interesting because when you were

younger, you had a problem with

authority.

Exactly.

Ferguson is the ultimate authority.

I still in different way. I still you

know Ferguson

sometime he shout on me. I was stood up

facing like I was like [clears throat]

if you go far I don't know I don't

guarantee nothing will happen but is

also I was I wanted to make sure

I didn't want to disobey in front of

people. This is really important because

you always question you know the coach

if you answer back and that's why I also

say to kids when the manager talk you

should never answer back in the in front

of the people but you can go after and

that's what I was doing with Ferguson.

So I tell you one game we play against

Tottenham winning 2-0il halftime playing

the best game in my life. I promise you

I was like wow on fire. Came back in the

dressing room in some water people. Oh

my god, Patrice, you're on fire.

Everything I sit Ferguson sit when he

sit and he doesn't speak for for three

minute or five like you you mean like

someone is in trouble. I look at him. He

look at me.

He said, "Patric, you okay?" And me,

"Yeah, yeah, I'm okay, boss." Yeah.

Are you tired?

Seriously, I look around. If it was like

a prank, if it was some camera and I

even people were like, "What?" I said,

"No." He said, "Why you pass the ball

back to Vanderesa?"

I said, "Because I I didn't have any

solution forward." And that's was the

only pass I passed because I like to

play forward.

If you do that again, I will you will

come and watch the the the rest of the

game next to me. And he used the many f

word. He said, "This is the worst game

you're playing since you play for

Manchester United." That's why I stood

up. I was like, "What's going on? This

is this is like this is it was like you

shouldn't if you pass the ball back

again I promise you you will never play

for and justice like I stand up but I

keep my mouth shut I was biting my lips

even people they were in shock they were

scared like gigs everyone was like

what's going on came back second half we

beat Tottenham 4-0il boom boom 4-nil and

everything after the game everyone oh my

god don't listen to him you were on fire

me. I did my shower quickly. I remember

the I couldn't wait to sleep and to come

back the next day. Next day I come.

I open. Who is it? I open the door. Oh,

Patrice, how are you my son? Say boss.

Oh, I am. What's happened yesterday?

Patrice, you were the best player on the

pitch. But you know Cristiano was start

doing some skill. Some player they were

like missing to chance to score. You

know when you play for Man United, when

you score one goal, you have to score a

second. When you score second, you have

to score a third goal. You have to

respect the people they come to

watching.

I was like, "Wait a minute, boss. You

were the best player, my son. Alle get

out of my office. FC." I was [laughter]

French FC. [snorts]

And he was like whistling, singing, and

laughing. Then I came out of the office.

I was like actually you know I could

take the the the fire. He wanted to send

a message to the other player

to Cristiano

Cristiano and many of the player

to keep focused and to respect Tottenham

but he he picked the best player in the

pitch to send that message automatically

or the other player they were like if

he's killing the best player in the

pitch we [laughter] better but that's

what I'm talking about managing

that's f

[laughter]

you had a bust up with Fergie in 2007.

Yeah.

When he didn't play you.

Oh, yeah.

He promised he'd play you, then didn't

play you.

Oh, yeah. Is uh

this was And even now, and even I'm

going to see him uh uh on Saturday. I

never asked him the real reason. So,

it's simple.

I've play every cup game, FA Cup game.

I've been named the best left back in

the Premier League. It was like you know

competition with me and Enza but I I

play more game and anyway

the final before the the day before the

final he did the team no he come we were

walking with Carlos Karios and it was

unfortunately an article on the on the

paper and a big title the son and it was

like Patrica ex drug dealer uh gangster

and a first page. Wow. Do you know what

they did? They went to my where I grew

up. They questioned many of my friend

and all of my friend they say yes here

you know we were fighting you know doing

this and you know and they say but

Patrice is an example for us because he

made it. So that paper is that telling

oh I was a gangster and everything. So

it was a front page and the day before

the game Ferguson we were walking going

to train and he say uh ah Patrica uh we

need to talk you know say what's the

matter boss he say you know the the

glazer the owner they call me and uh you

know for the club for the image of the

club you know an ex gangster and stuff

is you know it's no good I think I won't

play you tomorrow I was like but bossy

no I'm joking and it was kind of I took

Oh, I got him. You know, he was scared.

No, no, don't worry.

We train the first 11 on the team.

Everything perfect. The the day of the

game in the morning. I like to put

music. I remember. And Ferguson allowed

you also to order your breakfast in your

room. You don't need to go downstairs

and dancing t. Okay. I think it's the

room service. Open the door. Sir, Alex

Ferguson. He said, "Son,

[snorts] uh, I'm going to put you in the

bench and they're gonna start, but you

know what? I know you're going to win

the game for us. You know, it's really

warm. We play, you're going to come in.

I need some speed, some fresh, you're

going to win the game. I know you're

disappointed." I said, "I am very

disappointed."

He said, "I know, I know, son, but trust

me." And he tapped. So, I remember

after 10 minutes, he asked me to warm

up. We weren't playing well. I warm up

for 80 minutes. It was even like the

smoke and like I was like first of all I

was really angry and I was like running

like crazy mad because I needed like you

know the all this frustration I to come

out. We lost one nil against Chelsea. I

remember we went to take the medal. I

take it I throw it on the grass.

Ferguson check tried to shake my hand. I

didn't shake his hand. So first first

time in my life I disrespect him. Uh my

agent was there why you don't play? I

said go to ask your manager. People from

Manchester are you injury Patric? No go

to ask to your manager. I say to my

agent I I need to go. I don't want to

play for my United anymore. Find me a

club. No Patrice I need to go. I don't

want to play for my United anymore.

Uh it was the party. Everyone was like

with the family and stuff. I wasn't

smiling. And uh three day later,

Ferguson called me and he say, "Patrice,

I'm sorry. I should have played you. Uh

I hope uh you're not too upset." And uh

and because he told me that,

I automatically forgive him, but I still

don't know the reason, especially what's

happening in the paper and the joke.

And I never ask him the reason. But

yeah, I was uh that's that's it. That's

was I was I don't want to play for

United anymore.

Are you going to ask him?

No, because I'm someone,

you know, I know he see lot of my

interview and my stuff and he even watch

my videos. So maybe he's going to tell

me one day. But I I don't ask. I don't

ask people. I I just like to people.

They are free. If they want to say

something about something, they just

tell me. I don't like to ask people.

Does it bother you?

Uh when I talk about it, just think like

yeah. But not really because at the end

the rest of my career for United and the

love I've got for this man, you know, is

history. So no, but it's just like again

my past.

Maybe my past cost me, you know, my

starting 11, but

forgiveness, the topic of forgiveness.

[laughter]

Um, [clears throat] Suarez.

Suarez. Um,

in an altercation on the pitch, he

called you Negrito. I was watching that

game, which is a um offensive word for

um a black person. [clears throat]

That incident was a um was a bit of a

media circus, wasn't it?

Yeah. But I would never expect that

because

uh so like you say and um he called me

and unfortunately for him, I I speak uh

Spanish. And I say, "What did you say?"

And he said again the N word. and he

said anyway I don't speak with uh any n

the n word. So I remember in that time I

was like this is this is when I was like

also proud of myself because I was

talking to myself should I punch him but

Patrice this is a Liverpool Manchester

all the kids are watching this game

people won't understand so I promise you

the I had an amazing first half the

second half I was just like it was a

process talking to don't do it you know

when you have like a the devil and an

angel don't do it do it don't do it do

it all the game I wasn't in the game and

I play okay. He was fine. We drew and

after the game I just sat and Ferguson

saw me and he was like Patrice uh what's

the matter?

You know he had a good game. What's the

matter? I said no. Uh David de Gay say

Suarez call him anito.

I was like Patrice let's go take me. We

went to the refere the referee. We tell

him he take note. But by the way even in

the on the pitch I said to the referee

did you hear what he just say? He called

me with the N word. Come on, Patrick. He

called me with the N word. Play, play,

play. We're going to deal with that

letter.

Cuz I forget to always mention that. And

it's long time and every interview I

never say that. And that referee, we're

going to deal with that letter. Really?

He called you that? Yes, he did.

Okay.

So, we went to the official, we tell he

say, "Yeah, yeah, Patrice told me about

that." So, he was aware. So, Ferguson

like kill him. So, you were aware and

why you didn't send him off? Uh yeah

okay we're going to deal with that and

you know to the English federation. So

the next day boom front page

uh Suarez you know racially abused

patra. Well I didn't expect that. So

I don't know possible I start to become

a liar. I start to become people in jail

in Liverpool send many letter of they're

going to kill me when they're going to

come out of jail.

Uh people start following me with my

car. I had for three months uh 24 hours

like security. But can I be honest with

you? Uh my brother, my family, they were

like scared. But I was like guys, we

don't need that because I'm from the

street. So come on, we don't need

protection. But the threat were real.

That's why my united they say Patrice

even if you don't need that we need. So

for for 3 months like 24 hours and

everything. So unbelievable. But the

worst part is when we watch a game with

all the player in Ferguson and we saw

the Liverpool player came out with that

shirt and we support Lisa and the worst

part he was like he get banned. So it's

not like they do it when before he get

the ban he get banned because after he

lie he say you know in my country we use

the word like I know they use nero but

no negto negrito is the n word nero is

the color and even I always say to

people you don't have to call me by my

color my mom give me a name I don't need

to be anyway so with the camera they

could see with his lips like he say the

n word

and they support him and he was Kevin

Douglish I remember I hate so much Kevin

Daglish to let this happen that day and

the karma he gets sacked after one month

after that game. So I did a a TV show

with uh Jimmy Carer and uh I promise you

I Jamie like you know

we start talking and he said Patrice I

just would like to apologize about

what's happening nine years ago what we

have done is wrong. I was in shock

seriously. I didn't expect that. I was

like, "Wow, okay." He say, "We didn't

know, you know, the club tell us to do

that." And and after that, I received

like letter from the owner of Liverpool

emails saying like, "We more we sorry,

you're more than welcome here and

everything. You can feel home. I will

never feel home when I go to Liverpool.

Thank you for that." [laughter] But it

was so nice and I know many of my friend

they were like, "Patrice uh um you

should uh you should forgive them." I

say guys it's never it's never too late

and I don't have any hate and I and I

keep saying I can't call Luis Suarez a

racist because I don't know him close

enough to call him that way but in that

day he used some racist word and he get

even worse for him when about the

handshake

that's when I was like okay it's a

disgrace

cuz even when I called my mom and my mom

said the way in Patric you should

forgive

and I remember that game was one of the

most

like topic was the ende

it wasn't even Liverpool Manchester

that's when I see like he was bigger

than the that that things was bigger

than the game

and when I put and he didn't I was like

you put your hand out he didn't shake it

and I was like I'm going to kill him now

[snorts]

I remember that game I even take a Rio

Ferino you can see because I wanted to

to catch Suarez but he jumped so I take

like Rio Ferdino and it's that picture

when Rio Ferino he looked like is

broking his neck because I wasn't wanted

to play the game. I just wanted to kill

him.

And I have one story also after all

those episode. One day I was walking in

the Manchester in Dinsgate and uh

my brother say, "Oh, he's Loris over

there." I was with two of my brother. I

look at him. I was like, "That's it.

This is the moment."

And he woke and behind him I saw his kid

and his wife.

and we and I turned my back. I was like,

if you do something to him, you can't do

this in front of his family. So, I don't

regret it because I think it will end up

bad. And I didn't do nothing that day. I

saw him when we play against uh