just because you're determined doesn't

mean everything's going to go well

those four people that passed away were

they climbing with you

on fair grills and i've learned how to

survive on some of the most hostile

terrains on the planet you really

fascinate me for a number of reasons

that i actually never knew before i

started digging into your story you

certainly had a lot of demons

in the early days of tv especially there

was so much pressure to go and do that

and do the extra episode you end up

burning the things the most valuable

to be successful you have to sacrifice

but maybe you reach my way enough enough

selection for the special forces is all

about heart and spirit and we can all

have that that's not a god-given talent

that's a muscle that builds with walking

through the door of failure time and

time again and keep getting back up

when was your darkest moment

one was on when i broke my back and was

in rehabilitation for a long time and

you know so much of my rock in my life

had been that i was physically strong

and i was doing a job i loved and

suddenly i couldn't even reach the

bathroom without excruciating agony and

it was just what am i going to do with

my life when is there a time to give up

so without further ado

i'm stephen bartlett and this is the

diary of a ceo i hope nobody's listening

but if you are then please keep this to

yourself

[Music]

bear

i want to start where i usually start

which is

near the start and one of the things you

said was you certainly had a lot of

demons the quote the exact quote is i

was never short of demons when i read

that

i thought what do you what do you mean

growing up i really struggled with

confidence

you know definitely when i was at school

and i think uh you know i think so much

of the school culture still to this day

you know it definitely tends to

celebrate the

you know the guy who's academic or

sporty or good looking or just a cool

guy you know and that those are the

currency

of school

but as you and me know it's not always

the currency of life and you try and

tell a kid who

who maybe isn't sporty or academic who's

just kind and and

does his best

you know that actually those things have

much more value in life and it's kind of

hard to believe but certainly for me i

didn't i didn't have i wasn't the sport

you're the most academic or the cool guy

um

and i think it took me a while to

find an identity and actually this is

what

you know it's what i love and it's

nothing kind of

brilliant but but i love it and for me

growing up it was always climbing with

my dad you know he'd been a he'd been a

commando and and

loved all of that sort of stuff and for

me growing up it was always you know

that's what i love to do just just

have mini adventures with him and

i think it took a while to

learn that that's okay you know my dad

was always saying you gotta

find something you really love and try

and be kind to people along the way and

be resilient you know have that dog and

never give up attitude and that that's

that's the key things for life

and uh but it's hard to believe that as

a kid and sometimes if you get a bit

lost in the system

um so i suppose what i meant is that

it took me a while to find the

confidence you know and it's still a

journey i think we're all on you know i

think success doesn't always answer

those sort of questions and i think

confidence has to come from

in here

and it's often the opposite of what we

think it is when we're growing up you

know confidence is quiet and i think

that's where that's kind of what i meant

when you say confidence

what how do you define confidence

because some people think of confidence

as this like overt external expression

of like

self-assurance what did you mean when

you said i didn't have confidence and

it's still an ongoing battle what is

that i think it's not what the world

always thinks like you say you know we

always have this thing of confidence as

you say it's this unstoppable i can do

anything you know i think um life is

always humbling you know in every way

just like the wild you know the

mountains are humbling you know

the the real things of life humbling she

reminds us that

you know it's often a battle and you

know you've got to sometimes put your

head down and do your best and you're

going to fail and you're going to

struggle you're going to have doubts and

you're going to have self-doubt and but

but try try and get your feet keep going

and uh

and i think that is um

that is confidence you know confidence

is the quiet stuff and the and the

honesty and to to say this is a struggle

but

but let's go you know let's let's let's

do our best i love that thing of the

scouts you know do your best you know

which is so smart because i think so

much of the world is about be the best

you know win

number one

you know but actually

that doesn't always stand the pressure

test of time and of life and of going

for big things are always going to

be humbling and i think the thing is do

your best you know it's dip dip dip you

know dyb do your best i i love that

because wherever you're at

you can do that you know it's a decision

isn't it it's not a gift it's not

something we're born with like the looks

or the academic of the sport is

something you've got to summon

and uh

i like that what were the symptoms of

having a lack of confidence when you

were that age what would it look like

how did it manifest itself

i think probably just being quite shy

and uh

and

i think you see the the people at school

always the the bigger personalities and

it was always like gosh you got to be

like that to get anywhere and it's a

life journey isn't it to realize

it's almost the opposite

it's almost the opposite

you know look at the quiet the

persevering

relentlessly trying to put yourself up

through the failures and and keep going

and and

know the wealth of life the wealth has

always found in our relationships and

and

you know you come across people who are

rich in friendships and you know rich

and passionate and love what they do and

love the people they work with and

you know and that's enough that's

wonderful

but it takes a bit of unlearning doesn't

it of saying

you know you don't have the people not

always to look up to aren't always front

and center and as i get older i see more

and more heroes left right and center

where more left and right rather than

center

you know and i love that i i sort of

see it in people and uh

you know i see it in our camera crew i

mean look at look at what's been a

cool part of my job for however many

years many years now you know the

filming and stuff and

you know the focus is always on the

person front to screen and you know that

horrible word of talent as they call it

i never felt very talented still don't

still feel i'm surrounded by way more

talented people but it's life isn't a

competition about who's mortality it's a

it's a journey to

take with great friends and i look at

our camera crew and to me true heroes

you know they work harder

they carry heavier weights you know

unsung

you know relentlessly positive

carry me many times you know in so many

ways encourage me when

when i've been struggling and i look at

them and and still brothers and sisters

best friends to this day uh

i think it's probably the thing i'm most

proud of in my career actually are the

friendships with our crew you know in an

industry that

is notoriously transient you know people

have crew come kruger new crews you know

but we've kept pretty well the core crew

from

from the beginning

and uh

part of it's that we're obviously

working in difficult dangerous terrain

and you forge stronger bonds than you

would in a shiny studio

but

part of it is that the loyalty really

matters from both

goes both ways

uh and i love that

you said that you kind of have a bit of

an allergic reaction to the word talent

right just from a few other things that

you said in that little opener i

wondered if you

you relate at all to the to the phrase

imposter syndrome at all because you're

someone who's the world

has this image of you as being this like

unbelievable mountain scaling fearless

adventurer and even you talking about a

lack of confidence doesn't seem to fit

into that narrative that the world must

hold of you so have you ever felt

what they call imposter syndrome at all

would you ever yeah i think so because

i'm going because then it probably grows

you know the more you know the more sort

of something does well you know we

you know we we did the show this year

for netflix called you versus wild you

know and we just got the news you know

this morning we got um nominated for

three emmys for it

and the crew got better he's so excited

but part of my heart dies part of me is

like oh it's like that gulf between

the the sort of tv sort of you know guy

and the re gets bigger you know and i

feel

from day one i felt

i almost had more confidence i think in

my skills at the beginning i think as

the years have gone on and i've realized

actually i've often be surrounded by

people who are better better climbers

better skydivers better survival guys

better looking fitter stronger all of

these things just because we've built a

a crew of ninjas of true heroes and you

know got to work with people and locals

and experts all around the world

year after year

and i think more and more i feel these

guys are those that person we met there

or that person they are amazing be much

better at the job than me

but you know like i say our our job

isn't to be the best you know it's to do

our best and and you know for some

reason i've been given this this the

chance to do this it's what i've always

loved i love the adventures i love like

i say the friendships and you know the

job we do and

i think you can only ride that'd be

grateful for it and

and like i say do do your best and and

not worry about

too much about

how the tv makes it always look i mean

the truth is the tv always puts the best

bits they cut out the trips and the

stumbles and you put anything into music

and the guy's gonna look cool you know

but i think an element to why the show

worked when we first started doing it is

that we did show a lot of the mistakes

and it was kind of

the slips and the stumbles and the ums

and the r's and i remember from day one

that the producer that came

came to me and said we want to do this

show where we drop you in the middle of

difficult places and you show us how to

get out of there and and i kept saying

no because i didn't want to do tv i

didn't know about tv and i was like

and

you know but you kept saying we don't

want that it doesn't need to be perfect

and i've and it was my wife i said what

are you gonna try you know and i just

left the military we just got married we

were kind of starting out and

she was smart she said go and try it and

actually it's never felt like making a

perfect thing i think the magic at that

time it was the first show that came

along that let all the mud be on the

lens and the rain on the lens and the

trips and the stumbles and you saw the

cameraman's hand and it would come there

was an a sort of interactivity that was

there was great and i've always thought

if it's not broke don't fix it the

stumbles the trips the struggles the

mistakes are part of life

uh

but the part of my heart that dies is if

it goes it all makes it look too good or

too you know because at the end of the

day i'm a really regular guy i'm a

regular

dad as well you know i'm not i'm not

brilliant at any of these things but i

know what i love and i know

the weapons that serve me best and the

weapons are always this you know be

dogged be determined

be be the most resilient person out

there when it's hard you know come alive

in the big moments

when it's not the big moments you don't

need to be front and center but in the

big moments be there

i watched a lot of interviews of you

before you you arrived here today and i

think in pretty much all of them you

said i'm a normal guy i'm a regular guy

and i get that i get that i understand

what you're saying however

well it's not false modesty i don't want

to i'm not going to let people

build

build me into something i'm not you know

and i think as i get older i know the

frailties more and more and i'm not

ashamed of them you know i mean it's

it's okay many mistakes many many

struggles it's okay otherwise things

become all too

you know that how

it's hard to relate to you know

but you you got through sas selection

just i got through all these hit just

you know and people turned turned to you

and and said things and as they turn

back and quit

right that that for me is a filtering

process of something yeah whatever that

something is

all it is is it's something we can

control it's not a filtering of talent

it's not a filtering of you you're

brilliant you're through you're not

through you know it's a genius of

selection for the special forces it's

all about heart and spirit and we can

all have that that's not a god-given

talent that's a that's a muscle that

builds with

walking through the door of failure time

and time again and keep getting back up

you know so

i like that that's why i say i am an

ordinary person as well i also say just

to so many things because you know yes

i've passed out oh yes you reach the top

of this man or yes you do but it's

always just

and that's okay you know and it's also

often

by standing on the shoulders of many

giants who have helped me you know many

many times you know if i think of

ss selection you know that time there

were so many times where

somebody somebody just kind of believed

me in a critical time you know it might

be something where the two corporals

running something goes we want that guy

doing you know a bit of luck falls on

your side somebody backs you you know or

you know you i don't know just

the more i look back on so many

so-called achievements the more i see

the hand of good people in critical

moments but as you know you have to win

the hearts of those people in the first

place

but also

the role of just that dogged

determination to keep going and that's

not

a thing of being brilliant it's just

trying to keep going often sliding

another step back but keep moving

forward

and you say that to you know i've got

three boys now three teenagers and i

think if you said to them what one thing

does your dad say to you day off day

before you go to school

it's always just

you know don't give up don't never give

up be kind you know be determined but

never give up

and they roll their eyes but you know

what

one day they'll know that

it's a key thing a key thing of life you

know you don't have to

be the best to do your best

did that

resilience muscle as you call it grow

over time

of course it's just like like everything

it's like the little little seas to the

mighty oaks you know we how do we build

it just inch by inch

and uh

and that's a great thing because it's

not something only some people can have

you know it's universal for us all we

can all become people think it's a

god-given gift to someone be resilient

resilience is that muscle and you build

it by failing and trying to stay

positive and trying to get back your

feet and going again you know i look

back and

i remember being uh really excited about

being picked for the

fourth eleven football team as a

linesman

it wasn't even in the team you know

and it was like my job was to bring on

the oranges uh half time

you know but it was like and i remember

my dad was the only dad on the side of

the pitch cheering me on i thought it

was so embarrassing he's not i'm not

even in the team and dad said you know

he's come to kind of

but actually those little steps of like

i'm gonna do this i'm gonna bring on

those oranges and you know you're never

gonna forget it's gonna be great

and it's

incremental tiny little things

but

having to fight for things you know so

how often do we see at school though the

the school hero

actually in life

doesn't always do that brilliantly and

why is that it's because they've got you

know schools rewarded that

but they've never tested this

you know where little johnny who doesn't

have that doesn't get the awards

it's a linesman brings on the oranges

yeah whatever it is struggles doesn't

even get noticed never wins anything but

never gives up and keeps doing his best

and still doesn't really get noticed but

doesn't matter but when he leaves school

this might not be the biggest thing but

this is like ninja like you know that

that resilience muscle inside is strong

and as you know and as i know in life

that's the one that

is going to

carry you further

and

and the unseen people at school often

do better in life it's like don't peak

too early don't peak at 14.

i certainly didn't i sat here with um

eubank i've been thinking about this

idea of resilience and what it really

means and as we sit here today my

current hypothesis is basically

resilience is the story it's kind of

this contract you have with yourself

this self-story about who you are and in

those moments when no one is looking i i

was talking to eubank about me being on

the running machine and knowing i've got

two minutes to go because i said before

i started i'd run until 45 minutes

but my legs are hurting and they're

cramping and i could give up and walk

away and no one's gonna know because no

one's here yeah what i i alter my own

self story in a way and i i send a

message to myself that i am the type of

person that gives up when it's tough so

is it really do you relate to that and

this kind of like you're crafting this

story about who you are to yourself with

every small decision you make doing the

linesman job you said i'm gonna do it

the best i possibly can

and although it's not what i wanted i'm

gonna i'm gonna give it everything i can

and not give up yeah

yeah does that relate and also i think

the thing of giving up is that

you know what is this i think of

temporary pleasure long term yeah that's

not true you know and and for me i just

i i develop thing where

[Music]

whenever people quitting or complaining

i like those moments for me it was like

okay there's all the all the chat and

the bravado there's always that

beginning i was full of that but bring

it down put the squeeze on you know we

like grapes squeeze this you see what's

inside bring the squeeze bring the

squeeze now we see character you see

what people are like

and for me it just became whenever i saw

people quitting or complaining

especially complaining you see it so

much just

in the military you see it on big

expeditions you see it even when we're

filming tv shows with people you know

when it gets hard

you know and you're hungry and you're

scared and you're up against it you're

dehydrated you know those are the

moments and for me it just became a

trigger when everyone's complaining and

giving up so time to give more you know

just you don't have to give more in the

early times just wait until it's

and that's how you separate yourselves

in in business and in life and in

relationship you know in the big moments

you know look at a relationship when

it's when you're under that real time

and everyone's throwing it you know are

you going to really throw that nasty

comment or kind of hold it and just

try and be gracious and kind in those

big moments you know

and and i like that it wasn't

you know it wasn't complicated to think

about under pressure it was just like

when everything's going wrong that's the

time to give more rather than give up

and i held on to that in many difficult

moments you know across many different

arenas

and um

and it's helped me you know i remember

this guy said to me once said and you do

anything for another 10 seconds

i like that you know when it's you're in

that moment you key going another 10

seconds

that makes you different though

you got to admit because most people

don't want another 10 seconds yeah well

it hurt it hurts i'm not saying it's not

going to hurt it's going to hurt but

that fire inside it's in this in us all

you know it's just you've got to dig

sometimes but it's

it's a great truth to know that it's

there when you dig you know it is there

and uh and i think as you say once you

get used to it and you start to practice

it the muscle gets stronger and then you

almost seek out tough times you know

this is a chance to

to shine you know and as you say that's

how you separate yourselves

in life you know you're going to reach

these points but but in those big amount

what are you going to go this way how

are you going to act in those big

moments and it's always what separates

you know reaching those summits for not

reaching those summits never give up

it's the name of your

latest book when is there a time to give

up

because there is a wildly believed i

think social phrase which is like

quitting is for losers right but some

when i look at my own life and my own

career quitting has played quite an

important role sometimes in leaving a

situation that wasn't good so when

should we give up well that's called

wisdom and it comes with experience and

there's always there's always a right

first of all my 16 year old nephew came

to me the other day i said i said bev

you

need a not the smoking on the head

you're smoking a lot at the moment

he went but ever since i have a kid you

told me never give up

i said apart from the cigarettes you

know there's always a time to give

things and some and experience and

wisdom

you know you just don't want to be a

pig-headed head in the dirt

you know that's not smart that's not

smart you know intuition and experience

has to know when hard on this is this

isn't maybe the right route let's just

take a step back

and i think it's why so often

great mountaineers are often a little

bit older

because they have that patience and that

judgment and when you're young and you

don't care and you kind of maybe should

be listening to that intuition and maybe

the weather's changed or something's

happening that's saying hold you know

and you go and you die that's why why so

many higher tude mountaineers deaths is

that that

you know relentless ability not to adapt

or change your plan where with age you

have that ability to listen to your

instinct to the mountains to the

circumstances and maybe adapt and maybe

change and as we know you know with big

mountains they'll always be there so i

think that ability to life to listen

to that

and to amend and to adapt super

important and look at soldiering same as

always this thinking man soldier you

know was a was a mantra of a lot of

these special forces stuff was always

being able to adapt improvise adapt

overcome you know that that's that's

leading with this and with this

so

course is a time

for pulling back and holding

but i think generally the message you

know 90 percent of the time

most people don't get where they're

going not

not because of a lack of skills or

talent is it's that lack of kind of

ability to keep going when it's hard

and that's why i think doing

little things every day

small things that you know whatever it

is that just push your push this muscle

a bit is good you know even if it's like

i mean i have i've had a thing for years

and it's now super popular everyone's

kind of you know doing it you know the

ice bath training yeah but i've done it

for years and i love this thing it's

just three minutes a day i'm just in

that cold water you know whether it's a

river or in winter or lake or you know

at night time and you know i try and

find somewhere every day just get in

that cold and it hurts still hurts but

it's just a little some little something

whatever it is that's your something

that's difficult to do

because most people spend their lives

avoiding the the painful the difficult

you know they're scared of public

speaking or they're scared so they avoid

the things that

challenge us but as you know is where

growth happens and growth isn't always

fun it's often painful but it's like a

muscle the more you push it the more you

get used to it you know there's a great

thing at the commando training center in

limston that just says comfortable with

uncertainty and it's a great thing for

life you know don't get sat in that

comfort zone

too much you know i call it a comfort

pit somewhere to get out

i was wondering if like training in the

gym

when i

do my repetitions of the weights i then

need a bigger weight to get the same

gain

so do you find yourself needing like a

bigger thrill or a bigger expedition or

a greater challenge to get the same like

feeling of fulfillment and contempt from

what your work these days and where did

you find that after you've climbed

everest and done all you've done

i i don't feel that no you don't i don't

feel that i think um

what you're saying in the question is

you actually is that where you get your

fulfillment through that thing and the

answer is no it's not where i get

fulfillment fulfillment i do these

things i try and do the difficult things

just to keep that inside muscle honed a

little bit but it's not always about

bigger and better and

you know it's

as i read the other day half of life is

getting to where you

you know achieving your goals and the

other half of life has been really

happy to enjoy it

second one's a harder one to do

and i think a big you know i'd be super

lucky to fulfill so many things i still

have many goals many ambitions but it's

not goals and ambitions that trump the

last one are ever bigger and uh

you know it's not like that it's just

really grateful and try

make sure you stay alive you know make

sure you're always grateful for the many

good things and the luck you've had

along the way

you know keep that muscle inside honed

keep working keep doing your best

but it's definitely not where i find the

fulfillment it's not it's not like

the achievement's never going to fulfill

that whole did you used to think it

would

maybe a little bit i think when i was

young you know i think everest certainly

for me was such a symbol of like i'm

gonna do this you know that it was at a

time when

only i think 20 odd brits had ever

climbed it and it was i thought this is

going to be epic you know and and then

you see the realities of you know we

have four climbers lose their lives up

there and it re-rattled me in many ways

and i was lucky to reach the top and got

back in one piece but it didn't answer

that question of

you know

i i don't know i don't think i'd climb

it now i'm not so out on a quest to kind

of prove

anything but i think when you're young

it's

half of it's good to have a quest you

know you've got to have that goal

but the other half is like it's not it's

not the answer to life is it you know

it's it's a

you know that maybe comes from elsewhere

and with time and experience you learn

the real answer life has always

rooted in

you know something inside and that and

relationships with great people and

you know a lot of it i think comes down

to love actually you know being uh

knowing those connections with great

people and a love of whatever it could

be can be love of the outdoors the love

of what you do you know

but um

it's not found an achievement always

have you found

where it is found you don't seem to be

so

certain exactly where that that feeling

of fulfillment um

[Music]

you talked about the second half which

is like enjoying the goals

have you figured that bit out i think

it's a lifelong journey of figuring

it out you know i i hope i edge closer

to where it's not found

which is is never found in trophies and

triumphs and accolades you know those

things i see those things with clearer

lenses now you know i'm more proud of to

be married you know 22 years you know i

got three

great boys you know the the simpler

things i'm i'm more proud of i think

you know where do i really find

fulfillment i think um

i think my faith is a quiet thing

in that sense

you know face always a tricky one but

and hard to articulate very well but

it's definitely comes from a place of

like

that you're

you're okay you're okay we're we're

forgiven we're loved empowered

and um trying to live it live life as

best you can eyes wide open with

you know gratitude in your heart and a

tough resilient spirit to go for things

and uh and i look at life in those sort

of turns more and more i feel like in

the in the 2022 in the uk where i think

we've grown more atheist as a society

i mean

some people say there's no such thing as

an atheist but we've grown more atheists

in our viewpoints

it is harder to communicate if you do

have a faith

why did you say that it's a it's a

tricky thing

i think it's been so tarnished i think

religion has been so tarnished and i i

get that i was always the least

religious person growing up i just

thought i mean as a kid i had a really

natural faith i always believed in some

higher power and that

i could feel you know there's something

around you know as a little kid it was

like ah wow

and then i think i went to school and

then you know you had to go to church

and they were all white classics and

spoken latin i thought

gosh i've really missed it you know this

is actually what it's about and it's

been a life journey to unwind all of

that and realize actually

the little me had it right

you know faith is faith is in your heart

knowing knowing that you're not alone

and and

there's something bigger than us out

there and

they're for us not you know that power

is for us not against us and

despite my doubts and all of those sort

of things i'm gonna put my trust in that

and try and

you know

have love at the center of what we do

and live empowered and go for things and

not be scared to fail and

not be driven by fear and all those sort

of things and that to me what faith is

um

so it's hard to articulate i think

because it's

personal and it's it's

intimate and also it's like i say it's

it's has just as many doubts as it does

you know doubt and faith two sides of

the same coin you know i think

it does feel like that for me but

through it all

i would say my christian faith has been

a real backbone and a kind of secret

strength in many

tricky moments you know

light to a dark path i always kind of

feel it's that sort of thing so yeah i

did wonder when i was reading about your

faith and i watched you pray for obama

just at the end of your time with him

because i've sat here with guests who

have undergone and witnessed such

horrific things in their

in their lives and they've and it's

shaking their faith in fact eubank was

one of them that his brother suddenly

died they were both very religious and

that shook his faith and being out in

nature and being on those expeditions up

everest where two people fall to their

death and twos you know die of the cold

one would it might assume that those

moments would shake your your faith but

it sounds like it's made it stronger in

a way from what you said well i think

the two things happen often you get

shaken and strengthened

and uh actually my experience with

people people who've really been taken

to the edge

that's actually where they find their

faith you know you look at so many of

the concentration camp stories and stuff

you know

it's uh

you know two sides looking at one person

said

there can be no god i've seen i've

witnessed

evil personified and

yeah it was if i can't remember when and

said

i've been to the edge and i know there's

no place that god isn't

you know it's all how we look at how we

choose to live

and uh

i choose to choose to try and live with

you know faith faith in other people

faith in ourselves faith in the almighty

and that and that helped me but it's

it's funny that thing with obama because

in a way that was never meant to be on

tv it was just a spontaneous thing at

the end of the journey and i'd you know

as you know when you spend time with

people

you get a sense of someone and i think

at the end of that journey with obama i

got a real sense that

he's a guy with a weight of the world on

his shoulders you know and he he got

lighter as the journey went on and by

the end he said you know what's one of

the best days of my presidency i'm out

of the office i'm out of a suit

talking about stuff that's in here

rather than being grilled on

you know politics and

and i could see him light getting

lighter you know and i just said it yeah

i said it first of all

good job you're doing you you probably

i don't know if you get told it very

often most people are giving your heart

a bit you know you're doing your best

you know and i want to just say you know

i don't feel like let's reef try and

refill his fuel tank a bit yeah yeah and

actually it ended up going in the show

you know i put a hand on his shoulder

and said you know

strength this guy you know the big

decisions

oh man you know and it wasn't really

more complicated than that but

i don't know i think the wild

always creates

honest connections without the fluff

and it didn't feel unnatural and

you know but it's funny how the effect

of that i still get people to this day

talk about that a lot i know quite

unlikely people often say that wasn't

that was a good good moment

not always easy i mean awkward sometimes

isn't it doing that sort of thing

of course but but that's okay i've

learned that

that's okay dude sometimes the awkward

things

are the best things

telling someone that

you know

you know that they're amazing you know

can be awkward to a good friend but can

can mean a lot

quick one we bring in eight people a

month to watch these conversations live

here in the studio when we're here in

the uk and when we're in la if you want

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to do is hit subscribe

you said earlier about being rattled

after everest one would never

assume that of course you climb the

biggest mountain in the world

and you come down and you're rattled and

your confidence is knocked

i think big mantas are humbling you know

and sometimes you you take on these big

projects and it's about come on we're

gonna do it and you're you're full of

that

confidence

but um but it's often quite surface and

i think when you see things close up and

it it

i think i came away with a real

awareness of that i've been really lucky

and got away with my life where others

hunt up there and this stage everest was

killing one in six people's lives you

know and beforehand i read about that

and it was almost kind of it was almost

glamorous it was almost like romantic

you know but you see the see the reality

of it close up and it's it's not

romantic it's it's

dark and and difficult and confusing

and uh and i think my feeling at the end

of it was that i got really lucky you

know i've been no doubt dug deep in a

few big moments and

you know it was some

92 days on that mountain there's a lot

of time to do have to dig deep but

ultimately i had a bit of luck at key

times

and i think i came away aware of that

and and grateful for that but less

certain that just because you're

determined in life doesn't mean

everything's going to go well you know

and i think beforehand i kind of thought

if you give over this we're going to

work out but as you know in everything

in life there's no guarantees you know

we're

we we live a gloves off life

you know life is gloves off there no

rules of kind of like if you if you give

this school going to be

you know roses and sunshine you know you

can give the best in the world it's

going to be

hit you sometimes you know you get ill

or something happens and i think

that's the part of me that got a bit

shaken and

but you know that's just life and you

have to

live with your eyes wide open to that

and and still choose to try and make the

good decisions and pick the good

attitudes and put them on like a t-shirt

every day that even though gloves are

off we're gonna go for this we're gonna

do our best to be positive do our best

to give our best

and keep going for it

those four people that passed away were

they climbing with you

two russians and a

a brit new new zealander from other

teams

but they're larry on the mountain at the

same time and and never came back and i

remember with their teammates you know

afterwards just

them in tears and sitting with them and

it definitely made me question a lot of

the time is is any mountain really worth

a life i wish you clear answers no

but at the time sometimes your ambition

is you know it's like we're gonna go for

it and and that's why i think now kind

of with a bit of time and experience

would i

would i do it now would i take a one or

six chance of not coming home no no

because you have more to live for

but i think at the time i was like i'm

all in i'm going to go i want to make my

mark you know at a young age

and uh and the truth is i got lucky

fame

but yeah what does that one mean

yeah you tell me only on the tv for a

couple of minutes i mean

so but you've been on there for

many many many many years so i was

hoping maybe you could give me a little

bit of an overview of what

fame is

because you know when i looked at bear

grylls podcast

and i really couldn't find much there

was for someone that's been in the

public eye for so long could barely find

anything

and then i read this quote that you you

don't like

sometimes you feel like when you meet

someone there's a sense of you're

worried you might disappoint them

because they're expecting you to be

something else

well i think that's true

i think part of my kind of

the answer is i don't do very many of

these you know i think um

but that's okay i'm not sort of hungry

for more

people to know

everything you know i do

do these sort of things every now and

again with with good people and and

when it feels right

you know i think i think one of the

reasons i get i get less comfortable

sometimes in big groups of people and

and doing press circle doings you know i

i'm not very i don't really like the

cameras on me if i'm honest i struggle

really with that so one you know i never

gone to tv for that you know i got to tv

because you know this producer said do

you want to try this thing and

like i said we were just married and

starting out and pretty broke and it was

like let's go for it let's see what see

what happens but the sort of the

recognition side of things you know i

struggle with the word fame i think it's

a weird one

but i think the recognition side of

things i

i struggle with more um and i think part

of it is

a little part of me feels i'm never

going to be quite as good as people

expect you know in in

as a tv sometimes makes out and

therefore

less is more very happy with my family

and friends and i go and work but i want

to kind of come home afterwards

but when it comes to

fame you know you say that you say about

that i've

i kind of learned i think over the years

too first we'll take it with a

not just a pinch of salt but with a

bucket of salt you know don't believe it

it doesn't

it's not where your worth is your word

you know if your worth is that you're

always going to struggle because it goes

up and down there's ultimately it's

going down isn't it you know you're you

know when we're when we're 95 years old

nobody's going to know who who i am

yourself

well but but and it doesn't matter you

know it doesn't but our sense of

self-worth you're always going to be

fighting a losing battle really yeah

yeah so i take it all with a bucket of

salt

um i think for my family growing up with

a little bit of that they've i always

say to our boys growing up

we got friends all over the world and

look at it like that amazing connections

you know i can go to

go to any country and and there's a

connection with with with people there

and people want to tell their stories

and go oh i've just been camping with my

you know my son or my you know my uncle

was this or did that or my son's a scout

daughter's a scout or whatever it is and

i like those connections always grateful

for people's stories and

and that's fine so that's how i kind of

look at it pinch yourself don't believe

it all but uh always be grateful for

friends all over the world did you

struggle with it

i think i struggled with it when i felt

the attention was on me i think i didn't

like that that that felt i remember so

well in the early days when we started

doing man versus wild

first two seasons we were just gunning

and going and it was all just kind of

fun out there a small crew i never

really didn't see it go down tell you it

was going out in america at the time so

i was over in the uk i didn't see it i

didn't know what was happening it was

just lucky it was good timing and it

just worked you know it just was meant

to be at that time but i didn't really

see much of that because i come home and

you know live regularly and i remember

the head of discovery after a couple of

seasons say you know your show's

best on discovery it's getting over a

billion viewers now around the world

and uh

and my heart sank i really started to

struggle with it and i suddenly started

that when we were filming i'd be like

self-conscious and what am i saying and

holidays

and

the fun went out of it and my i got more

anxious with it all and i thought i

don't want people looking at this or

doing this or

and it was a really sort of marked time

of

and the crew said it so they said is

everything okay

and i think

i had to learn to

it's about other people you know and

when i raised people coming up and they

weren't going

you know you're amazing there we go

i took my son camping or or my whatever

did that and when i was it was about

them and i'd really try to shift it in

my brain everything's about them you

know it's what it brings out whether

it's a single mom coming to me saying

when he once said about you're in that

storm in the jungle and you said

sometimes life is it's going to beat you

up and you just got to be dogged and

keep going keep your head down you know

the storms won't last forever and i

really understood that as a single man i

was trying to hold down all these jobs

i've got you know that for me lifted my

whole

i thought that's why i do this job

and it kind of shifted it

off me and and and and that's why i've

always loved my job now as like chief

scout you know for me that was a

revolution to be able to say when people

come up to me and go you know oh you've

done this now yeah but look what you

could do you could join you know you

could join that and you can do this and

you know somewhere to be able to

not deflect but sort of direct people a

little bit

and i i get such a kick out of that it's

why i love running wild so much because

it's about other people it's about

taking these rookies they might be

amazing rookies but

they're often wilderness rookies and

opening their eyes to

my office you know the outdoors what the

wire can do for people that light inside

that pride that come on you know that

magic

and uh and saying look at this and that

freed me a lot

away from kind of

look at look at you know

look that way instead of this way

you said a word though which i i started

thinking about a lot which was the word

anxiety

which i actually think is quite an

interesting thing because you're much of

your work is about the natural world and

one of the i think unnatural human

signals is anxiety it kind of tells you

something that you're potentially doing

wrong maybe a train of thought that

you've attached yourself to which is

destructive or whatever else and

depression's one of those things is what

i talk about a lot is also seems to be a

pretty clear signal for a natural signal

that we have you know some of my guests

have said that they have it's a signal

that they've been disconnected from

their tribe and it's and they've

explained the science of that and um and

even the signal of rejection and how

that makes us feel is a prehistoric

signal telling us to get back into our

tribe because or that there's a chance

we might be thrown off the island by our

tribe because we're being rejected so to

change our behavior and all of these

signals

anxiety depression and this whole mental

health um

awareness that's emerged in the last 10

years

what's your relationship been like with

those with those um

those topics

first of all it's it's amazing that

people are talking about this and

focusing on it more you know i think

you know it's it's long overdue and it's

a key part of our arsenal for life isn't

it our weapons that are gonna

help make your heart happy you know you

you need to

you need to look after the physical you

need to look after the emotional you

need to look after spiritual and you

need to look after the mental side of

things you know it's all these are all

weapons in our arsenal we've got to

focus on and if you neglect one

there's always going to be a little part

of your heart that is

going to struggle a bit if you if you

whether it's emotional physical or

mental so you've got to

try and put things in place that help

your mental health

and

and i think people for many years often

neglected that you shut things away but

actually the so many of the things that

help us mentally are simple things like

as you say those connections to people

and that honesty and vulnerability and

and like we've been talking about not

letting yourself sort of live a life

that actually isn't real not letting

people make you into that hero that you

don't always fear you know stay honest

stay connected talk to people you know

be outside how how many times do we see

studies proving that when we're outside

and we're in the sun and we're

expressing and we're working hard and

we're connected to people that's why the

wild is such an amazing

mental health

weapon to

build up that resource you know in a

world that often depletes the resource

you know all of this stuff is always

pulling you know if i pulling pulling

you know

leaves you emptier but for me the wild

and connection and the sun and outdoors

and swimming cold rivers and

challenge and failing and all these sort

of things build up

i find for me help my mental health you

can't take your off the ball with mental

health you gotta

and you're not always gonna get it right

and that's okay

is there a time in your life where you

discovered mental health was a

very real thing because of an experience

that you'd had

because i think for many years i thought

it was something that happened to other

people and then there's a couple of sort

of catalystic events that happened in my

life that made me realize that i am not

immune to anxiety to feelings you know

depressive symptoms and all of those

things but is there something in your

life where there's a pivotal moment

where life events typically are the

catalyst of those things where you go

this is something that i now need to put

as a priority

i think i've been lucky in the sense

that i've i've never suffered from

really bad depression you know where

many many friends i've stood alongside

have really had battles i think i've

always had a

you know an intuition of when i need to

change something and when i'm struggling

a little bit and when hold on this

this feeling of of anxiety would be

going on a bit oh what can we change

what helps me and i've always sort of

accidentally

found things

that help make that

problem better and for me it's been that

go to being outdoors being with great

friends having a few

just a few good friends rather than lots

and lots of friends you know even things

like our our be military fit our bmf or

veterans run fitness business has helped

me so much because it's a collective

tribe of

you know often veterans

people who need that camaraderie but

want to train want to stay physically

fit don't want to be in a gym inside

with

white light and all of that they want to

be outside in the fresh air they want to

be down in the dirt a little bit they

want to laugh at themselves in

situations and face a few you know rain

swept early mornings training outside in

a park together and and

like our physical health the more we can

be aware of the things that do help and

have proven to help

and to gravitate towards so seek those

things in our life be outside be

connected train

you know be honest have a few friends

the more it's gonna help us when we do

have the dark moments and

i've never met anyone who doesn't have

them you know they might tell you they

don't but everyone has these moments and

i certainly i certainly have and

but i've also never met a strong person

who's had an easy past you know it's

just

part of it if you're gonna go for big

things you're gonna shoot for the top

you're gonna have struggles and failures

and

part of life when was your darkest

moment

one was when i broke my back in the

military and was in

rehabilitation for a long time and you

know so much of my rock in my life had

been that i was physically strong and i

was doing a job i loved and suddenly i

couldn't even reach the bathroom without

excruciating agony and you know my back

broken in three places and

you know that

you know i had to then leave my job

you know with the military and and it

was just a what am i going to do with my

life you know but i also look at that

time and i think

if i had gone through that i don't think

i ever would have actually had the drive

and the impetus to make that everest

expedition happen at that young age and

have hadn't done that that wouldn't have

opened the door to other things and then

eventually the tv and you know it's like

it's like these

these clouds that often you know it's

why not to be scared when life does hit

you sideways because there's often a

sort of a plan there you just

gotta try and

keep moving forward towards it but

that was definitely a dark time and i

think also losing my dad at a young age

i mean

shara and my wife and me both lost our

parents within 10 weeks of each other in

year one of marriage and it was we were

young we were 24 25

and uh just starting out on life and i

think we always had that safety net of

our parents behind us you know and and i

think suddenly both losing our dads and

now being responsible for our mums and

it was uh it definitely took that safety

net away and it was like wow we're both

dealing with trauma here

not always very well but we we gotta i

mean

i look back now and actually it's what

made us made us really tight

and to have a love and a trust and a

vulnerability together that has been a

key thing in our relationship i think

ever since but at the time it was just

pure pain

and a and a huge

hole that

is still there to the day you know i

mean you know seeing our three boys grow

up great the great loss for me is that

you know they will never know my dad or

he would never know them and how like he

was they are and all of these dynamics

that we

take for granted and so often i see

friends now and they get oh my you know

my mum's a bit poorly and my dad i'm

thinking there's part of me thinking you

know you're so lucky to have had your

parents for that long and we i was

dealing with looking after

my mom and all her sort of bills and

everything and you know when i was 25

you know it's been going on a long time

but

but at the same time i think my dad

told me so many of the key things in

life which was back to the earlier point

of like

you know be resilient and be kind and

keep going and and those things

i'll always be grateful for and i wish

my only regret is that i'd get a chance

to say to him

wow you were right you were actually

right all along when i kicked against it

and kind of you know you were right

you know fully dreams be kind be

resilient

never give up and uh i never said thank

you enough for that

that's something i always worry about

my dad is has outlived his siblings

and um

i don't feel like i've made enough of an

effort to stay connected there's

something about us where we just think

our parents are going to be around

forever like you when you see the safety

blanket thing it's like this it's almost

like it reminds me of covid where i

didn't realize the tectonic plate of

society could ever move so i built my

life like ignorantly on this foundation

that society would be open and that and

then one day someone showed me that

there was even a tectonic plate

underneath me that i didn't know was

there and my parents are the same thing

they've just always been there so i

assume naively that they always will be

but um

what would you say to what advice would

you give me about

well never take that for granted

and never never be scared of saying i

mean

tell him now you know tell him on this

he'll listen to this

he's probably incredibly

incredibly proud of you

all you've achieved superseded his

wildest dreams of what a sun could be

and he should be proud and

tell him

what would you tell your dad if he was

anything maybe well i think i'd i'll say

thank you for for the little things

you know it's not that it's thanks for

being there on that touch line when i

was linesman

you know thanks for not putting too much

focus just on

success

and school reports and

being top

thank you very focused on

being kind and having a dream

even though it might not be the path

most trodden

you know but

but go for it if it's your dream go for

it

and thanks for saying that never give up

is the golden currency of life

rather than you know good looks

uh sporty talent or academic brilliance

but you know i think um

for you your dad your dad knows you know

i'm sure he knows but

never stop telling him

you know because

i think really parental relationships

one of those ones that's always going to

be they're always going to be dynamics

and struggles and

fallouts and arguments stuff but

you can never articulate it too much

that you love someone and you can never

overestimate how much those simple

awkward difficult words to say

mean i mean my great buddy

said

he really wanted to tell his dad one

time he loved him but he knew he was so

english he wouldn't his father it would

be a really difficult thing to say

and eventually said i'm going to say to

and he said dad i just want to just let

you know i really love you and this song

his dad goes

you've been drinking

you know but the thing is that's okay

your dad would go home that night

knowing that he hadn't been drinking the

guy his son hadn't been drinking but

that was special and i think those

awkwardness backed up thing of doing

sometimes the awkward difficult things

like the prayer with obama

is a really good thing you know and i've

tried to get better at this in my life

of

saying thank you and and doing nice

things and say saying awkward

but

good things to people i mean i said it

to my great buddy the other day rupert i

said to him

you know

we work a lot together and stuff so i

said you know forget the work side of

these you

you're such a lovely friend

and yeah i literally saw boom i saw the

eyes well out just for a second you know

and it was like you know are you oh

you're great i know it's

keep training or whatever you're doing

you know but it's sometimes the awkward

things are the good things

and um i hope as i

live and do more in life that i i create

more and more of those moments because

there are many people i'm

like i said i stand on the shoulders of

many giants that are the real heroes in

my life and i definitely consider my dad

one i'd definitely consider those i

served alongside the military many still

friends to this day and when i was with

corporal williams my old you know

squadron

you know patrol commander who's now aged

you know

70

and uh lives in martha tidfield i was

with him the other day for a walk in the

brecons

just remind him i go you've been an

amazing friend through life and i'll

never forget the belief you had in me in

the early days thank you you know

i consider the camera crew i work with

in that same vein

and uh

never take those for granted

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your wonderful wife

i remember you saying once upon a time

if you really want to know someone

you've got to ask the wife and kids

what they're like you know such a isn't

it i mean

what if i asked your wife what would she

say what would she say about the

flawed probably says flawed

flawed

but you know

in what way i think loyalty and and

sticking through things and knowing the

real us and and that we're not perfect

and we we're

there for each other's is creates a

power to it and i do look at

relationships that are special like

you know with your kids or with your

wife as like stained glass you know you

need to

they're really beautiful

but you've got to protect them and

you've got to protect them number one

and i think it's so easy in life to do

the opposite actually we take that one

for granted and we produce our best

we produce our best for the

at the dinner party to hold court and

say the jokes and you know and it's the

wrong way round you know it's the wrong

way round save your best

i think it's saying i've learned and

still try and i don't always get right

by any means but i know the goal is to

try and save my best for

those i value the most which is the

closest relationship to you with your

wife and and with your kids you know

make them save the best for them

rather than kind of be tired and grumpy

with them and then go out and then be on

form you know it's trying to shift it

the other way and it's counter culture

but

it's always going to make you happy you

know if and that's why

i say if you all know what someone's

like ask their wife because don't don't

look at the press reports and don't

read their own stories about themselves

you know ask person who really knows

them when the when the mask is off and

when it's you know the cameras aren't

really they're they're the ones and it's

not say

you know anyone's perfect but but try

and save your best for them and

i think

if you do ask my wife what

i would love her to say

i'd love her to say that i was loyal and

kind and fought for them

you know that's that's what i just i've

always tried to do in my life and

prioritize them and many times in in my

life in the early days of tv especially

there was so much pressure to

you know be away too much and go and do

that and do the extra episode and do the

extra thing and the you know discovery

channel are asking for one more thing

then you end up

burning burning the things are most

valuable because you're way too much you

you're focusing on this and it always

creates damage

and i'd say sorry for those times it was

way too much and and and that's why i

fought so hard to start to produce and

make our own shows where we owned the

format and we could decide it's not i go

no it's our boys half term i'm i'm not

gonna even though it's

you know tom cruise or whoever i'm we're

i'm gonna be at the half term for this i

wanna

a shift onto the family

and it's been a great thing it's been a

key thing

and the other stuff is work it'll always

be that you know it'll be there and it's

okay sometimes i fall into the trap of

doing that so you know you get an offer

come in and it's oh 50 grand or 100

grand to do this thing here it'll take

one day but i'd schedule to be in

indonesia that day with my partner and

i'm looking i'm going can i really turn

down a hundred grand

for one day just like hanging out on the

sofa with my partner it's a new

challenge that i've been contending with

what i mean you've been through this

well i think i think the answer is at

the same time you're hustling and you've

got to work and you've got to build it

and you're building it especially when

you get married and have kids you're

building for their future and all of us

have this struggle but i think listening

to that inner voice you know a little

bit and there's this line isn't there

that we walk where

you know this side is family this side

is work and the problem is if you only

try and walk this line everyone's always

asking favors you know it's just one off

it's one event there's one thing well

before you know it you're spending too

long on this side of the line and you're

creating damage and loss it's only

damaged so it's losing you're creating

loss on this side and i think what i've

learned is just shift the line a little

bit you know make the line here oh so

make it even more family orientated

yeah so so

when you drift over the line a few times

which you're gonna do you're still in

surplus you're still a surplus and and i

think the wisdom and experience of life

is knowing do you know what no we should

go and do that i will go and do that

event that's important

but

knowing also the ones that really

protect it's often the little things

isn't it like a

you know like the linesman story you

know like that school play or that

anniversary or whatever and listen i'm

speaking from a place of flawed

failure through many many times but i've

learned through those things why did you

say that because i got it wrong many

times

yeah just been there and made mistakes

and got them wrong but i've learned

through those

is that it's worth protecting the most

the thing of most value in your life and

i think then with success what happens

you reach a point where

you don't need that extra 100 grand

you know maybe when you're getting it

maybe you've got to hustle a bit maybe

you've got to make some sacrifices you

do to be successful you have to

sacrifice maybe you know and i was the

same i had to in those early days you

gotta you gotta go that extra mile i'm

not saying you don't you do

but maybe you reach point where enough's

enough and then

then what you're really saying to your

girlfriend or it might be your wife or

your kids at that stage is that i value

you more than a hundred grand and when

you're like successful you know it

doesn't get any easier to say no it

becomes more important

to say no

amen i felt that speaking of work

really compelled by um

when i read that you're the chief scout

i was like that's the ceo of the scouts

right

is that not the ceo of the scouts

effectively well i don't think i've ever

i've never had an aspiration to be like

a ceo ceo has always felt very important

even though we are on the diary of a ceo

i never feel like i see um

[Music]

greatest honor in my life has been to

you know be a be a small cog in this

incredible worldwide machine of 55

million young people whoa bound together

by a common set of values of respect and

kindness and humility and and adventure

and determination and life skills and

you know it's an amazing privilege i

never take it for granted it's a

worldwide force for good it truly is the

scout movement is unlike anything else

out there and

it really has been the greatest honour

of my life and

and i love it i can sum up my job as

chief scout three words you know

encourage encourage encourage you know

and shine the light on those the the

young people because the stuff that they

got get up to the missions they're on

the the efforts the endeavors the expert

what they do is amazing they're leading

the thing on climate change they're

leading in many refugee camps and

disaster areas helping serving and when

you get 57 million young people around

the world saying i make a promise to be

kind and helpful

you know

it's amazing there's a power to that and

it's brilliant

do you think your

your career is complete

and um i hope not i hope not i'm still

hustling i'm still i like that i like

the struggle i like the fight i like the

ambition we've built a brilliant team

we're pushing many endeavors you know

away from just the tv shows you know i'm

super proud of our be military fit our

veterans fitness business you know we

have our theme parks our adventure parks

at the nec and we're opening up new ones

around the world we have the scout staff

we you know we have education

initiatives i love it for me it's about

using this god-given platform we've been

given through the tv shows to try and do

exactly the same as we do with the tv