In order to be successful, you have to

be able to communicate your ideas, who

you are, and your point of view. And so,

I use three steps in every communication

that can be used for getting a

promotion, laying people off. It could

be used to persuading your significant

other, "Where are you going to go to

dinner that night?" And it allowed me to

go from being in a room where I couldn't

have a conversation with people and

crippled with anxiety and fear to

co-founding two nine-figure businesses,

helping over 15,000 business owners

scale their organizations, as well as

helping people unpack the strategies

that the top 1% of people use to gain

wealth and success that are different

than 99% of people who can't create the

wealth that they've always wanted. Like

they prioritize being respected over

being liked.

>> And where else do people go wrong here?

>> Well, ultimately this comes down to the

character of the person. If the person

isn't somebody who wants to win, who

doesn't sacrifice, you cannot get to

where you want to go. Now, of course,

you could try to hack success, but if

you did it by putting in the effort, you

don't have this anxiety that it's all

going to come crashing down because you

know that you could redo it and it's

never burnoutinducing. That's a

misconception about hard work. You're

not a candle. You can't burn out.

>> What about passive income? Because the

idea that you can make income and do is

unbelievably compelling.

>> Well, before you have a million dollars,

don't even think about passive income.

Instead, use your calendar as a

representation of what you find to be

important with the goals that you have

every single day.

>> But if someone at home isn't quite clear

on their goals, what should they be

doing?

>> I have a three-step methodology for goal

setting that I have rolled out to

thousands of people and it's called PPF

and it's transformed my life. So, the

first is

>> I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you

Natalie. For my viewers that have just

clicked on this conversation, what is

the reason that you think it's important

for them to stay and listen to what

we're going to talk about today and all

of the things that you've spent your

career understanding? If you are

somebody who has really struggled with

working hard and putting in the effort

and the energy, but you don't actually

have wealth to show for it, this

conversation is important because wealth

should come from hard work on the right

set of problems. And so you have to ask

yourself the question, what problems do

I work on every single day? And whether

you're a team member in an organization,

whether you're a leader in an

organization, a business owner in an

organization, you should be able to

objectively point at my work here

generated this result. And so if I'm

upset with this result, meaning I

haven't made the wealth, I haven't

created the income that I want, it would

make sense that where you're spending

your time and the problems that you're

solving are not tied to your actual goal

of increasing your wealth. And when it

comes to wealth, I do think that we are

in a wealth crisis across the globe. I

think that there is so much confusion

and misunderstanding about financial

literacy and what's actually happening

with who is making money, how they're

making money, what they're spending

their time on. And so this conversation

I'm very much looking forward to

unpacking what are the strategies that

people use the 1% for their time, for

their investments, for their skills, for

their mindset that are just different

than 99% of people who can't seem to get

ahead and create the wealth that they've

always wanted.

>> And so as you sit here now, what is your

business? What's the scale of the

business? And uh what does it do? Yeah,

over the last six years, I co-founded

two businesses that are both nine

figures today. One is a management

consulting investment firm. It's called

Cardone Ventures, and we help small

business owners grow and scale their

organizations. So, I work with business

owners on a daily basis who will be

doing $3 million in annual revenue. They

want to know, how do I become one of the

fewer that is able to have a $5 million

a year business or a $10 million a year

business? because they really realized

that $3 million a year doesn't actually

create financial security. And that

business was started in 2019. And then

our second business, 10X Health, we

purchased a health business back in 2023

and today is helping people all over the

world and it's a nine figure business.

>> So you're on that first business. How

many business owners have you worked

with?

>> Total business owners that have come

through our programs would be over

15,000. What what are the range of

things you're helping them with?

>> Great question. So, there's education.

Yeah. There's consulting, there's

services, and there's investing. So,

think of us like the McKenzie for small

businesses. We reverse engineer their

current market, what they're doing, what

their products, services, offerings are,

and we give back to them either in the

form of actual services where we will do

their marketing for them, we will

recruit people for them, we will do

their bookkeeping for them. But then we

also have a massive events component of

our business where we train business

owners on how to hire, how to recruit

themselves. So they don't need to hire

us to do it. I actually prefer it when

people don't hire us to do this because

I think it's so important for business

owners and the leaders inside those

teams to actually get the competence in

that skill. So if you use Yeah. have

hiring or their books. If if business

owners don't understand how to read a

P&L and the importance of a balance

sheet, they're always going to abdicate

that work to somebody else. And at some

point, that is not going to work for

them any longer because I don't actually

know what that skill is. So, I'm

trusting that Steven can come into my

business. Steven seems great. I know him

from church. I'm just going to let

Stephen do this. But, I don't know that

Steven only knows how to do this to a $3

million business. And I need it to be a

$10 million business. there's no

education system that exists for

business owners to help them identify

that today.

>> So it was a 2019 you started this

business.

>> So if I jumped back to 2019,

what is the difference like fundamental

difference in the principles of how to

be successful in business that you know

now that you wouldn't have known then?

Like what are the glaring principles? I

often think that like the further you go

down any path,

>> it becomes more and more clear what the

like fundamental rules of the game are.

And at the very beginning, those are

just hypotheses. So, what are like the

fundamental things you've learned about

what differentiates those 15,000 people

that you've interfaced with that are

business owners um makes some of them

successful and the others unsuccessful?

>> I ultimately think that this comes down

to the character of the person that is

doing the business. Because if you look

at people that you can partner with in

business, it is incredibly challenging

to make something truly successful. Even

if it's the best business model in the

world, you figured out marketing, you

figured out operations, you can scale

it. If the person is a piece of [ __ ] and

if the person is not somebody who is

ethical and is somebody who's compliant

and isn't somebody who wants to win, to

me those three things go hand in hand

because it to me it doesn't matter what

the business model is. You could give me

a roofing business, you can give me an

HVAC business, you can give me a

wellness company, a marketing agency.

The principles that I thought to be

true, many of them have held true over

the last six years since 2019. Many of

them are still very applicable around

standard practices for accounting and

how you recruit people. Certain tips and

tools help with different platforms that

you can use for these things, but for

the most part, those things actually

haven't changed. But what I've learned

painfully over the last 6 years is

everything is about the people that you

do business with and the partners that

you choose and the people that you allow

in your inner circle. And so that is the

case for your own business, but that's

also the case for the businesses that we

help. And I can watch the most

incredible business owner come into our

organization. She's wanting to win.

She's excited about what the future can

look like. She's going to take all of

the notes and actually go home and

implement those things. But if she has

somebody in her life, say it's a spouse,

say it's a kid, worse yet it's an

employee that she's paying to help her.

Like that's the irony. You pay people to

help you and yet when they're actually

on your team, they do things that

detract from your ability to achieve

your goals and to reach your potential.

That's where I find doesn't matter what

the business model is, doesn't matter.

You can give all of the books, all of

the training, the full playbook to

somebody, they're going to fail because

either they aren't that person or

they've surrounded themselves inside

their business with people who will just

be stops to them and continually stop

their ability to grow and to reach for

more, reducing that person's confidence

in themselves and their business stays

stuck.

>> If people are the most important thing

for long-term success and for business,

what are you looking for in people? What

makes someone an A player in your view?

And how do you how do you filter them

out?

Because a lot of people go off their

vibes and if I've learned anything over

the last 10 years is that we're all

riddled with our own biases and

insecurities. So we end up aiming in a

certain direction whether that's for

better or for worse.

>> So what's your process of finding

exceptional people?

>> I use a three-step interview process. So

the three steps for me is first a

cultural interview. I want to understand

more so than me trying to get into the

technicalities of can they do the work.

Are they aligned with our organization?

Are they goal oriented? The best

question that you can ask somebody

inside a business before you hire them,

what are their five-year goals and

actually get a real answer. I don't

really care what skills and experiences

you have. If you don't have goals,

you're I'm not hiring you. You're not

allowed to be inside this environment

because it's demoralizing for every

other person who is here to help achieve

their goals. the organization's goals

and hopefully the goals of the end

customer, client, patient for whatever

type of business. So that first

interview really being the cultural

grounding point is of the utmost

importance and then I move straight into

a technical interview where I want to

get the person as close to the work as

possible. So if you're going to be a

salesperson, I want to see you make a a

sales call. I'm going to give you a list

of 50 people to call. I want to listen

to you call those people. If you are a

graphic designer in our organization, we

do not do briefs. We are not the type of

people that are going to say you get all

of this time to be able to think through

this whole process and this whole

journey and we're going to give you two

weeks to do this. For us, we are

turnurning content constantly because

that's the world that we live in for the

amount of ads that need to be created,

presentation decks. It can't take a

bunch of time. And so if the person when

I do a case study interview and I have

them actually make a presentation in

front of me says that they need two days

to think about this and they can't

assemble some form of a presentation or

a graphic for an ad. They don't know how

to use Adobe or Canva or whatever the

platform is, I I can't really hire the

person because I know that they don't

have that skill. And then the final one

is a core values interview. And for me,

our team's ability to demonstrate ahead

of time, ahead of joining the

organization that they actually

understand and are in alignment with our

core values is essential.

>> How do you test someone's core values?

>> Well, I asked them to give me times

where they have exemplified the core

values that we have and they present it

to our leadership team. For the first

100 team members at Cardone Ventures, I

listen to every single core values

presentation. the person can't

demonstrate and actually say, "Oh, I was

able to generate x amount of leads and

convert them at y percentage." They

probably don't know what they're talking

about and they're gonna have a really

hard time in the environment. And I do

believe that this is the business

owner's responsibility. You have to own

your culture and your environment. And

if you don't and just think that anybody

that can come in is going to actually

live by what you want to create, you're

going to be very quickly mistaken

because they're going to create their

own environment inside yours and then

you've lost control. You talked about

goal setting being an imperative when

you're meeting people. What is what is

your framework for goal setting? If

someone at home isn't quite clear on

their goals, what what should they be

doing?

>> I have a three-step methodology for goal

setting that I have rolled out to

thousands of people. And this three-step

framework has really transformed my life

because it allows me to create buckets

for goals. And the process is called

personal goals, professional goals, and

financial goals. And after having over a

thousand of these conversations

personally where I've interviewed team

members and business owners and team

members of business owners about their

goals, what I can say is I've never

found a goal that is outside of those

three buckets. But the challenge many

people run into is on New Year's Eve,

they start to list out all of the lovely

things that they would like to

accomplish and who they want to be. And

it becomes this very esoteric

conversation. Instead of really

prioritizing personally, what does

success look like? Professionally, what

does success look like? Financially,

what does success look like? And what

would those targets be in one year from

now, 3 years from now, and 5 years from

now? Because those three buckets become

easy to think about in the short term.

One year for most people, super

straightforward. They're like, "Oh, I'd

like to make an additional $10,000.

Maybe I'd like a promotion here." Three

years starts to get a little bit more

nebulous. And after having over a

thousand of these conversations, 5 years

for most people they have a hard time

thinking with. But the one constant is

in 5 years from now, guess what? We're

going to be 5 years older. I am 32 years

old today. In 5 years from now, for

certain, I will be 37 years old. And so,

who is Natalie at 37?

>> Who is she?

>> She's a [ __ ] badass.

Natalie is in control of her

environment. Natalie is able to

make a lot of financial investments that

I'm not in the position financially to

make today because I want to be able to

write a million dollar check to charity

just because I can. I'd ideally like

that check to be 10 or $50 million. And

when you say PPF, personal,

professional, financial,

>> is there any specific way that I should

write this down? Is it just do I just

think about in 5 years from now, what

are my personal, professional, and

financial goals? And then I write that

down on a piece of paper, for example.

>> Great question. Ideally, personal is at

the top,

>> okay,

>> with a bucket for one year, three year,

and 5year.

>> Then the next is professional, one year,

three year, five year. Financial one

year, three year, five year.

>> And you know, you use the word badass.

>> Uhhuh.

What is the mindset of a badass? Like,

have you always been like this?

>> I always wanted this, but today I am

this. At 20 years old, I was crippled

with anxiety and fear about what others

thought of me.

>> What changed? What happened? How did you

acquire such an aura? I think the aura

came from targeting, getting stats that

I could prove that let somebody not see

me in my life choices, but actually let

them see an outcome. So that first

outcome was being able to recruit

people. I wanted to actually have a stat

that I have recruited X amount of

people. Therefore, I know how to hire

people. I know how to interview them. I

know how to onboard them. I know how to

create a successful culture because a

result shows that. So whether you like

me, don't like me, think that it was

him, you can't take away the stat. And I

became obsessed with not

getting things or doing things that took

me away from stats.

>> So you needed to acquire first party

evidence for yourself about yourself.

>> Mhm.

>> So that within yourself, you knew

who you were

>> that

>> you had a self case for who you are.

that

>> and even I guess to for people to do

that because I'm sure there's so many

people listening that are maybe

20-year-old Natalie in some way, maybe a

bit shrouded with sort certain

insecurities and maybe aren't the most

conf confident, maybe a bit anxious,

scared about what people might think if

they try. What would you say to those

people from your experience?

>> Go all in on yourself.

Go all in on that weird thing that

you're interested in. If it's

scrapbooking, if it's

social media, if it's

recruiting, if you like reading business

books, go allin on that thing. And

social media has never created a better

time for people to actually create

incredible things based off of their own

interests and get those things out to

the world. So 20-year-old, anybody,

anybody who is 20 years old should say,

"This is what I'm interested in. It is

one thing. It is not 12 things. And I'm

going to go all in on myself with this

thing and become completely obsessed and

create my environment around becoming

the best at objectively the best at this

thing."

>> Does it matter how you look? I've I've

heard you talk about this in a video you

made in April where you're talking about

seven steps to transforming yourself

>> and you say that you should rebrand your

look.

>> Does it matter how I look?

>> I think it matters a lot to people how

they look. I think people have a lot of

ideas about

levels of acceptance about how they look

and ultimately you have to decide if you

are comfortable with the way that you

look and I do think many people

overemphasize how they look and how they

come across. But if you want to rebrand

yourself and have this new identity,

let's say somebody wants to go from

being a 20-year-old college student that

no one really takes seriously and it's

kind of dumpy and doesn't really like

certain things but can't really

articulate why. Spend too much time on

social media. And let's say that person

wants to become a professional golfer.

Well, all of a sudden, in order for me

to become a professional golfer, the

fastest way for me to be successful

becoming a professional golfer is to

practice golf every hour of the day and

to assimilate into that environment, to

look the part and to act the part. I'm a

huge believer in the process of be, do,

have. It is not have before you actually

be that person and you do the things in

order to have the stuff or have the

identity or have the whatever it is that

you're looking to create the being a

professional golfer, the scrapbooking

business, the $20 million organization.

And so the first step really is becoming

that. And if I really want to change

what my external environment is, I need

to get in those rooms and I need to

start to understand what those rooms

look like. And the fastest way for me to

actually be able to do that, as long as

it doesn't compromise my moral code,

would be to start to look like, dress

like, act like that thing that I want to

become.

>> How important do you think communication

is in terms of like the way that you

show up here and the way that you talk?

Do you think that's important? And if

so, what advice would you give to to my

audience about being an effective

communicator?

>> Of course, communication is the most

important thing. Next to being

successful,

actually, I would say in order to be

successful, you have to be able to

communicate your ideas and your thoughts

and who you are and your point of view.

And if you can't communicate those

things, it will show in your inability

to create the things that you want to

have. So, what do you do when you think

about your own communication style? What

are some of the things that you've

learned over time that are effective to

make people take you seriously to to

hear you and to persuade people?

>> I am incredibly present in any room that

I am in. And that is a missed skill in a

day and age where everyone has a cell

phone where they can contact millions of

people instantly. I find that leaders

who want to get promoted and and be in

the next position, they don't even think

of how unaware they look in every

leadership meeting because they are

simply answering another email or not in

that room. And my philosophy is if

you're in the room and your two feet are

there, that is where you have to be. And

so you are an effective communicator if

you can actually track with what's

happening. If I can track what he's

doing over here and when he comes and

talks to me, I'm able to have a

conversation because he's physically in

my space. That communication matters.

It's not just the most important person

in the room that matters in any room.

It's how you present yourself to every

individual because you are present in

that environment right now. And if you

can teach yourself to not numb yourself

from the environment, if you can teach

yourself to really observe the

environment and talk to whoever it is

that's in front of you, communicate with

them, even if they're not talking to

you. How we became partners with Grant

and Elena Cardone was by sitting at an

event with 35,000 people and instead of

acting like big deals and instead of

acting like we were somebody, we sat

there in their audience and took notes

and were actively interested in what

they were saying. Why? Cuz if somebody's

up on stage and you want that person's

attention, the fastest way to make them

not want to spend time with you is to

slouch in your chair and is to look down

or be distracted the whole time. And

then when they meet you to come maybe

take a picture at the end of the event,

they see you. They are going to know

that you gave them no laughs, you gave

them no verbal cues, you were completely

uninterested, and you actually made

their job harder for them despite the

fact that maybe they are your role model

or idol. I find people are so unaware of

their physical presence in any room, in

a meeting, in a school room, in a

presentation, in a conversation with

their significant other with their kids,

that if they could just own the space

that they are in and be intentional with

the human being that's in front of them

would change everything in their lives.

>> What about how you speak? how the very

the most effective speakers that you've

encountered, what it is they do

tactically to make sure that people hear

what they're saying and are persuaded by

them, you know, and there's a spectrum,

right? There'll be these business owners

that you meet that are like terrible

communicators and speakers. What are

they doing wrong? And then the very best

that you meet, what are they doing

right?

>> The more frameworks somebody has to

frame their communication, I think helps

them land their point. So there's no

shortages of frameworks on the planet.

My framework is vision, commitment,

execution. I use three steps in every

communication that I'm really

intentional about and wanting to land.

And that three-step framework can be

used for getting a promotion. It could

be used for laying people off. It could

be used to figuring out where you're

going to go to dinner that night and

persuading your significant other. So

the first step of the framework under

VCE is vision. And it's important that

vision is first because if you can

articulate to somebody the intention and

the why behind whatever it is you're

communicating, you're going to get much

further than just going into tactics.

>> I've heard you talk about avoiding

phrases like I think, I feel,

um, and being more high conviction and

certain with the way that you

communicate with people.

>> Mh. Explain that to me.

>> That honestly might be outdated for me.

>> Yeah.

>> Because in a day and age where it's

important to share your point of view,

it's not a bad thing to say, I think

this is the right path, especially if

you aren't certain. And it

[clears throat] shows strength and

integrity that you are

communicating that you you're thinking

this. you you don't know for sure and

you're relying on other people. Now, if

it is just a filler word, if somebody

says, "I think we should do this and

this is the direction that I think we

should take Cardone Ventures," that

wouldn't be very engaging. So, in that

context, you absolutely should not be

using these filler phrases of I think or

maybe and and adding lack of certainty.

At some level, you're playing a

certainty game with everybody around

you, whether they are investors,

clients, patients, team members,

partners, vendors. And so using phrases

that decrease people's certainty in your

direction isn't going to help them help

you. But if you actually are uncertain,

it is okay to be transparent about that.

And it actually builds trust.

>> I think it's funny I just said I think I

think about this a lot. Um because I I

find myself writing out emails and

messages where I've written I think in

them. And I I'd say 90% of the time

change it to I believe.

>> And I think there's something different

about that framing. Whenever I write I

believe it feels it's still appreciating

that this is a belief that I have and I

don't have certainty on this hypothesis.

But there's something high conviction

about the phrase I believe we're going

to blah blah blah blah and I believe

that will happen blah blah. It feels

much better than I think. M

>> I think I it's a bit flimsy.

>> I'm in agreement with you.

>> A bit plastic bag in the wind. So,

>> but when you say it like this, it makes

me connect to you because it actually

feels like it's a stream of

consciousness that you are thinking

something.

>> Yeah.

>> Instead of in an email.

>> You saying I believe is much more

authoritative. I would

I would caution leaders when it comes to

using words like I believe or being

certain about really ensuring that you

are certain or you really do believe

something, especially as your business

grows. If you're doing a million dollars

and now you have a $10 million business

and all of a sudden you have a a layer

of leaders around you, it can become an

echo chamber. And the more certain you

are, or at least you seem to be, the

less likely people are going to push

back on you when you might actually need

them to collaborate. And you weren't so

certain, but you came off with such

certainty. And I find that that's a

balance that leaders have to find as

they become more competent in their zone

of genius and as they get higher up in

organizations or start their own

organization themselves. if they aren't

really communicating what things they

aren't certain of but they're waffling

on um it it can cause unnecessary

duress.

>> You talk about mastering your calendar

as well being central transformation.

>> Why is why is this so important and what

does that mean?

>> Well, if you want anything in life, you

actually have to spend time to get that

thing. things don't just magically

manifest into people's lives despite

what the internet tells you. So, in

order for me to have the relationship

that I want to have, I actually have to

invest time with my significant other.

It's not just going to magically happen

that I'm going to have an amazing

marriage. If I want to have great

friends, I actually have to spend time

with my friends. And so your calendar is

a reflection and a representation of

what you find to be important and is in

alignment or out of alignment with the

goals that you have every single day. So

if I have zero time being spent on

generating revenue inside my business,

it shouldn't surprise me at the end of

the year that I'm doing the same amount

of revenue that I did last year. Why? I

spent zero time on the one thing aka

revenue generation in order for it to

grow. So for me, my calendar, and I

teach business owners this every single

day, you have to look at it every day.

You you have to start to align your

time, unless you want your life to be

something that just is a story of luck.

I don't know about you, but I'm not

interested in having a life of luck

because I think that actually leads to a

significant amount of self-doubt and

uncertainty. Oh, just because I'm lucky,

I'm going to leave something to to being

out of my control just because I I

happen to be at the right place at the

right time. Of course, there are those

components. I have been at the right

place at the right time throughout my

career. But the way that you control

where you spend your time gives you the

most amount of atbats to the

opportunities that you want if you have

goals and aspirations to have a

different life than you currently have.

And to me, still to this day, I want to

have a different life in the future. And

I imagined a more enriched version of my

life at 40 and at 50 and at 60. And I

think if people were really honest with

themselves, they want a different

version of their lives, too. I don't

think someone listens to this podcast or

watches this show without wanting to be

something different or to have something

different, whether it's relationship or

different health situation or different

income, different friends. I mean, how

many people would want different

friends, like badass friends to do cool

[ __ ] with? Well, how do you get that?

Okay, I would need to actually reverse

engineer using my time and what I do

every single day to get me closer to

people who are doing those similar

things. And so, that might actually take

me making sacrifices for 2 years in

order to be able to be around people, to

be able to give value to people who'd be

interested in being my friend. And it

sounds a little

strategic, but it is because you don't

just get great people in your life

because you happen to be at the right

place at the right time. You get great

people by doing great things because

great people want to spend time around

other people who are doing great things.

And the only way that you can certainly

know that you are doing great things

without getting lucky or happening to

look a certain way so that you get

invited into certain places is by

managing and really creating your own

time.

>> What about hard work in this equation?

You know, people talk a lot about work

life balance and I think a lot of people

want want everything. We want to, you

know, get to 40, have the yacht, have

the great family, have great

relationships, have a great business. I

mean, that's an ideal outcome for all of

us. What would you say to people about

the concept of working hard and how

critical or or unimportant that is?

>> Working hard is the most important

thing. You cannot get to where you want

to go if it's truly something that is

unusual or out of the ordinary without

working hard. Never burnout inducing

though. And I think that that's a

misconception about hard work. I don't

know successful people who are still in

the game who are burnt out by a long

day. That the response isn't burnout.

Their their response might be, I want to

go do something different for a minute.

But my business partner, Grant Cardone,

who I am obsessed with, and that was one

of the greatest partnerships I could

have ever done in my entire life, he

says, "You're not a candle. You can't

burn out. A human being cannot burn out

because you are not a candle. So, can

you feel moments of pressure, stress?"

Yes. I don't take any of those moments

as being a bad thing. It's not a

negative to feel overwhelmed because you

have responsibility. People depend on

you. People are relying on you to do

something great. Go.

>> Burnout then in your view. Why do people

say, do you know I was doing this thing

and I got burnt out so I had what is

that?

>> The thing that people do is not actually

leading to where they want to go.

So, if I thought that it was going to

require me to work out two hours a day

in the gym and only eat chicken and rice

and never have any of the things that I

love to never get a six-pack, I'm not

going to do that. But if I think that by

doing this work that's going to be hard

and I'm gonna hate and it's going to

suck that I can actually get what I want

and my life would be changed because I'd

actually have a six-pack and I'd feel

confident and I'd be able to buy the

clothes that I'd want and I'd just be

part of the very small percentage of the

population that has one. Then the

process of me going to the gym early at

5:00 before my kids get up wouldn't burn

me out. I would recognize that this is a

step that's necessary to get to my goal.

And at which point when the goal is

there, you might change your mind and

you might have a different goal. But

when people win, they are rarely burnt

out at that moment. I've watched

business owners sell their businesses

for hundreds of millions of dollars. Uh

I've watched them get hundreds of

millions of dollars in their bank

account. And that feeling of celebration

and joy happens to stay around for a

little while until that thing kicks in,

which is that individual's potential to

help somebody, to solve more problems,

to be able to make a larger impact. And

so that end goal does end up moving. The

goalpost ends up moving. And there's

actually nothing wrong with that.

despite the world wanting to tell you

that there is something wrong with the

fact that you're moving the goalpost. I

don't think there's anything wrong with

it. And you only really get burnt out if

you don't see how the sacrifices that

you're making are actually going to lead

you to the six-pack. If you're going to

be overweight forever, then of course

I'm just going to eat candy and chips

and all the things that I love to eat.

But I do think I could get a six-pack.

So, I'm willing to make some of these

sacrifices here and there because the

goal isn't going to allow me to get

burnt out because I'm going to be so

freaking proud of myself by the time I

reach that goal, at which point I'm

going to change it to a different goal.

And it's going to be just as interesting

and exciting of a game for me to play at

that point in my life.

>> Do you think people respect you a lot

more now at 33 than they did when you

were

in 2019?

>> Of course they do.

>> And what should someone do that is

looking to earn the respect? some

someone that feels like they're

continually disrespected. There's

something about them. There's something

in the way they carry themselves that

what they continually feel like people

are disrespecting them. They might work

in a business or, you know, they might

be low down in a company or maybe

they're not. Maybe they're just someone

who's gone through the corporate world

and they're continually disrespected.

What would you say they should do to to

earn people's respect?

>> The first thing somebody has to do in

order to earn respect is to decide that

they would rather be respected than

liked. That trade-off is made too often.

We're in a situation when the right

respectful thing to do is unlikable. We

don't choose the right respectable thing

to do. We prioritize being liked. And so

when you make that decision to be

respected and to not prioritize what

everybody thinks about you, you can then

transition into the second step, which

is you have to get stats in the area

that you want respect in. If you're low

in an organization or you have different

people around you who don't respect you

for a variety of different reasons, what

is the area of your expertise that is

undeniable?

It's proof. It exists in the physical

universe. It's not just because you had

an idea or you think you can be an

entrepreneur or you'd like to be someone

who gives people relationship advice.

I'm sorry, but if you're not in a

relationship and you don't have a stat

of being able to have a good

relationship and you can't have a spouse

that's like, "Wow, this person's great.

I love being around this person." You

probably shouldn't be giving that advice

and that's why you don't have respect in

that area. So, I don't think respect is

a overall life respect. You need to have

respect in the different compartments.

It's not just Steven is a respectable

person altogether. That's that's a

facade to me. You might not be

respectable in certain areas. I maybe

shouldn't respect you in certain areas

of your life,

>> but other areas, I would think areas

that you've prioritized, you're

incredibly respectable in, and you've

prioritized getting stats and proof in

those areas to earn people's respect

whether they like you or not, because

you have something to prove for it.

>> Has that been a journey for you, this

idea of caring less about being liked?

Because you talked about that earlier as

being really central to your sort of

early 20ies, etc. It was so hard for me

to not want to be liked. I had a mom

growing up who was a medical doctor and

just was the world's most sweet, kind,

thoughtful person. She would sit down at

a party and every single person in that

room loved her immediately that she just

had this aura about her. And so I

watched my mom growing up as a role

model and somebody who still to me today

is a role model. and she really

emphasized how important it is to ask

great questions and to be engaged with

other people. And what I lost in that

process is well, if I'm always asking

other people and and trying to get other

people to like me and it's always that

flow, like what do I actually think

about myself because I'm so focused on

over accommodating others? And so if

you're trying to flip this for yourself,

you're trying to go from I overindex on

being liked and not so overindexed on

being respectable and liking what I

think about myself. You really have to

go out to your three-year version of

yourself and your 5-year version of

yourself because no one is going to get

clear on that for you besides you. And

once you put that stake in the ground

saying, "This is what I want to be known

for. this is who I want to become. This

is who I imagine myself being. This

isn't a manifestation practice. It's a

I'm going to decide who that person is.

And then I'm going to like myself at 20,

at 30, at 70 because I'm acting in

accordance with the way that I view

myself in the future and I'm going to

become the person that I want to be.

>> Have you found that you've had to

reinforce and protect your boundaries in

order to earn that respect? Do you find

that people try and test you? Of course

they do. I work with hundreds of team

members every single day who have their

own points of view and their own

perspectives on what they want the work

to look like, what they want our culture

to look like. And I think I've had to

wrestle with this so much because I want

to create an environment where people

can be successful. My definition of

leadership is making other people's

success easy. So, if I'm going to be a

leader, I'm going to make other people's

success easy. How would I go about doing

that? What type of environment would

they need to be in in order to actually

make their success easy compared to

their alternative, which is going down

the street and trusting that some other

leader is going to make them more

successful. And so, I really wrestle

with who I need to be and what the

boundaries are that I set for myself.

And one of the things I've gotten so

much criticism of uh online was when I

publicly shared a Tik Tok about firing

somebody because I found out that she

was cheating on her significant other

and the other person also had a

significant other. And as soon as I

found out about it, I terminated both of

them immediately. And it's so shocking

to people that

>> Wait, someone was cheating with someone

in the company?

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, and they both had partners outside

of the company.

>> Both had partners outside of the

company. As soon as I caught wind of it,

it wasn't even like a a split-second

decision. Well, I guess it technically

was a split-second decision. Was like, I

can't have this in my environment,

especially somebody close around me.

People trust me and should trust any

leader to help them make their success

easy. Am I making people's success easy

by putting inside that environment

people who are going to erode the values

of the group? No. Success for most

people isn't getting a divorce from

their significant other. Success for

most people looks like figuring out how

to have the success in their

professional lives and in their

financial lives while also being able to

have a spouse. I wouldn't want my

husband going out to work and being in

an environment where the company was

just fine with people cheating on each

other, lying to each other, and not

having a code of ethics, doing drugs.

Like none of that is something that I

want inside my environment cuz it's my

job to make people's success easy.

>> One would say that's none of your

business what they're doing when they go

home.

>> It is my business first of all because

it was with each other.

>> Yeah. But they're not doing it at work.

>> Well, there was a not to get into

specifics of the particular event, but

it happened to be around work related.

>> But but if it wasn't at work, you still

>> even if it was, I would fire the person

immediately.

>> So you'd fire someone for cheating.

Absolutely. On their

>> partner. Absolutely.

>> I can't have cheaters. If they're going

to cheat on the person that they're

supposed to spend the rest of their life

with, do you think that they're cheating

on their work?

>> Do you think that they're going to cheat

on our clients? Do you think that

they're going to have the ethics and

morals and judgment to not be so

distracted with their own personal

ethics situation that they can actually

focus and do a good job? That person in

any environment is a liability to the

environment. It's a complete liability.

Some people have, you know, things in

their personal life which are very

different to the way that they show up

professionally. Though people people do

all kinds of things in their personal

life.

>> It's terrifying

>> cuz listen, the way that I see it is if

I expand the scope of my uh [laughter]

concerns,

>> I'm going to get [ __ ] nothing done.

>> Mhm. So if I start, you know, going into

who they who they at home with and in

bed with and what's going on in their

personal life, unless they bring it to

me, obviously when you're the founder or

the CEO, people bring you stuff and they

say, "Look, this is going to impact my

work."

>> But um I, you know, boundary, I don't

want to be I don't want to be the

government of your [ __ ] personal

situations as well, as long as it

doesn't show up in the office.

>> Mhm.

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If I'm thinking of starting a business

in 2025,

you know, you've spoken to thousands and

thousands and thousands of business

owners online, probably many millions of

business owners.

When we think about that initial period

of like coming up with the idea and

picking what to work on. Is there any

advice you would give people based on

the success and failure you've seen

about what they should aim at, what they

should work on, especially in the

context of like 2025 when so much in the

world is changing so quickly?

>> If they could use the frame, if any

business owner or potential business

owner could think about starting a

business from the standpoint of where is

there the greatest chance for me to be

successful, that is the best frame to

use. Unfortunately, most do not use that

frame and they base it off of their

existing experience and the skills that

they have. If it was not based off of

existing experience or skills that

somebody has, I think great AI is going

to be the great leveler because nobody

has a lot of experience in AI. Nobody

knows in small businesses across America

how to hook up automations and start

working with assistants to be able to

put small businesses onto a CRM system

or an operating system that connects to

their financial software that allows the

business owner to make great decisions.

No one has done this at scale because it

didn't exist. And so if I was starting a

business in 2025, I would absolutely

look at how do I help business owners

who have an infinite budget for things

that actually work to make them more

money solve problems that are real to

them. And the problems that are real to

the 35 million business owners in the

United States of America is that they

don't know how to use AI. they are

terrified of AI and they're going to

either put their head in the sand or

assume that somebody who is young is

going to create the solution for them

when somebody instead who is experienced

could have a eight maybe even a nine

figure business over the course of the

next 18 to 24 months really figuring out

how to help solve these problems because

it makes the business owner to that

business incredibly sticky. the customer

is always going to be there and they

would be on the front end of something

that nobody has experience in.

>> So do you think a lot about this the

speed in which that market is growing

when you think about where to set up

shop and start a business?

>> Of course the market growth is

everything because if you want to start

a paper business in 2025, you would have

to be the best paper business and really

have a unique positioning to make that

successful. when you could do something

less well and be much more successful

because there's just more opportunity in

the growth and there's less players in

markets. So the growth allows for

innovation, the growth allows for new

entrance and as I mentioned with AI, uh

there's just an unprecedented

opportunity in front of people right

now. But I'm also very excited about

service-based businesses, roofers,

plumbers, electricians,

HVAC, all of those businesses.

The core of the business doesn't get

disrupted by AI until robots. But those

business operations are ripe for

somebody to come in, I don't care if

you're 15 years old or if you're 50

years old, and get paid tens of

thousands of dollars per client to

implement very simple solutions that

really do solve problems for those

businesses

>> using AI.

>> Using AI.

>> Yeah. I've heard you talk about when you

described the six most profitable

businesses that you think will be around

in 2026. We've talked about AI

businesses, talked about home services.

The other one was hybrid wellness clubs.

>> Mhm.

>> Why is why is health such a a big

predict prediction for you in terms of

profitability and a good place to set up

shop?

>> There's growth in the health space after

co the whole world changed and their

priorities changed as it relates to

health. the statistics I read recently

about alcohol sales connected to like

nightclubs, it's just it's not what it

used to be because instead of wanting to

go out late and party and do all sorts

of things, people are actually

prioritizing their health and providing

them with solutions for optimizing their

health is just it's continued to grow

for ever since co and it's going to

continue to grow with different types of

amenities at gyms with different types

of technology that people are inserting

into what a traditional I one time I

recently went to a a facial, my favorite

thing, my hobby. I went to get a

60-minute facial and they integrated IV

services into that facial experience.

Well, what else could you do that allows

somebody who is sitting in a chair for

60 minutes to add revenue to that

business that's connected to their

health and well-being? Those types of

innovations are happening in small

markets all across the world.

>> And why did you say in that video pet

care?

>> People love their pets and people will

spend money on their pets. People will

spend more money on their pets than

they'll spend on their kids and then

they'll spend on themselves. I mean, if

somebody has a dog, I recently talked to

somebody who told me that she was doing

Reiki with her 12 dogs. I mean, it's

just the the level of interest that

people have in taking care of their

pets. I think what's happened in that

market place specifically is as business

owners and high-income earners make more

money and they do have these pets, these

things that are dependent upon them that

aren't yet children. They want to spend

their discretionary income on making

that pooch that is their new best friend

phto comfortable

making him be well through all sorts of

offerings because I feel bad and it can

actually pay off my guilt by providing

phto with a caretaker and nail polish

and

EMF, you know, therapy.

And the other the other thing that I I

think is particularly pertinent to the

experience you've had is um so many

small business owners will come up to me

and say that they are

they won't say it like this but what

they're describing is that they're a

bottleneck in their own business.

>> They're at maybe I don't know a million

in revenue. I mean most people that come

up to me say this exact same thing.

They've reached about a million in

revenue in total and they don't know how

to scale beyond their typically like

service based businesses where someone's

doing a service for a client. And uh

what would you what do you say to those

people when you've encountered them in

your your company?

>> Welcome to being an entrepreneur. This

is not a unique set of challenges. This

is an expected set of challenges. The

statistics show that the challenges that

business owners face at that break point

of taking what they are doing that is

working and transitioning that to having

other people help them is part of the

process. And so there is nothing wrong

with this business owner. It's just that

they don't technically know how to train

somebody to do what they do well that

then allows the business owner to focus

on the business owner's primary role.

And that primary role should be to

generate revenue. It shouldn't be the

dentist being in the person's mouth. You

cannot have 12 dental clinics and still

be the person that is helping the person

floss and making sure that they are

flossing. Right? Mostly hygienists help

dentists with that. But you have to get

out of the doing of your business and

you have to get into the scaling of the

operations of your business. And those

are just skills that you don't currently

have.

>> And what is that skill? What is the core

skill there? It's a tactical skill. And

the skill is opening up their calendar,

looking at what they do every single

day, duplicating through process

creation what it is that they do that

makes them a special snowflake in their

mind. Because every business owner

thinks that they are the only person

that can talk to their customer. They're

the only person that their clients will

listen to. Nobody is ever going to be

able to service their patient like them.

That's what they think. And so they

create those conditions instead of

saying, "No, I'm going to objectively

look at where I spend my time. And out

of all of the things that I do across a

50-hour work week, there are specific

things that are not the highest value

for me to continue to do, but I would

have to train somebody how to do that

thing flawlessly." It is not about

hiring somebody who's going to know how

to do that thing. That's where they fail

and then they lose confidence because

they think some magical unicorn employee

is just going to come into their lives

and take this thing that only know they

know how to do and actually be able to

do it. Of course, they can't. So, it's

this reinforcing thought that they have

instead of structuring it to say out of

these things, these are the specific

parts of the business that I want to

remove off of my plate so that in 3

months from now, I do not touch these

processes. In order to do that, I'm

going to document what I do. Ideally

using a framework like vision,

commitment, execution so that it doesn't

just get reduced down to steps, but so

that team members can understand the why

behind it, what the organization is

committed to, what the team member needs

to commit back to, and then actually

execute on whatever that process is. And

instead of just handing that person

those items in an onboarding and maybe

never checking it again, you're going to

go through a four-step process. First,

you're going to tell the person what

they're supposed to do, aka the process.

Ideally, then you show them what they're

supposed to do so that they can see how

this applies in real life. It's not just

something on a document. Then you're

going to let them do that thing. And you

are going to coach them and provide them

feedback on doing that thing. So when

you can see that you've properly trained

somebody and you've switched your

mindset from just assuming that adults

learn the same way that we used to learn

when we were children, which is just by

picking it up and figuring it out.

You're going to give them a full

structure, tell me, show me, let me

coach me on the most important things

that they need to be onboarded with. And

then you are going to actually measure

that they're able to do those things in

the way that you were able to do that so

that that role inside your business is

handled. And then you just do that over

and over and over again.

>> So often when people are having this

conversation with me about this, they

say, "Oh, I tried that and I brought

someone in and they [ __ ] up and and so

yeah, I'm not I'm just going to do it

myself." That's like the rebuttal that I

always get. It's always people saying,

"Well, I tried that. I trusted someone.

They [ __ ] me over. So that doesn't

work."

>> What responsibility can they take in the

interview process? What responsibility

can they take in the onboarding process?

Did they actually show that person what

they were supposed to do? Did they

ensure that the person knew what to do?

>> Do you think most people are bad at

hiring?

>> Of course they are. People are terrible

at hiring.

>> Where do they go wrong? Like what are

the biases that they that end up

consuming that process that make them

make a bad decision?

>> I don't think they really understand

what the work is that they're trying to

get that person to do. So they Google a

job description or they chat GPT or use

Grock to put a job description that

isn't actually connected to the real

outcomes in the role. I can imagine if

you posted for a marketing position

inside your business. For you, marketing

looks like lots of different things.

Yeah. For the average business owner,

I'm just going to I need somebody to

help me with marketing.

>> They don't even know what they're hiring

for. Yeah.

>> No. So then the person comes in with a

certain set of experiences and they are

going to drive based off of their

experiences whatever they think the

outcomes are for their role inside that

business because the owner never took

the responsibility to say this is how

I'm going to objectively measure. Was

this person successful based off of the

fact that the marketing that we do for

our plumbing business that's doing

$800,000 of revenue is actually email

marketing?

>> So, what if I don't know the right type

of marketing? Cuz I'm a plumber. I don't

know about [ __ ] marketing. So, I'm

going to be very easily duped by someone

that tells me that they know marketing.

What do I do to

minimize the probability of me being

duped?

Well, the good news is if you are a

plumber currently and you're doing,

let's say, $800,000 of revenue, you

figured out marketing for $800,000 of

revenue. So, the first thing in order to

not be duped would be ensuring that the

person that you're bringing on can at

least do what you are doing and they can

duplicate what you are doing. Now, once

they've demonstrated to you that they

can take on those tasks for that

800,000, they are competent. They

understand the business. They understand

who your customer is because you forced

them to. because you documented what you

did did to get the first 800 and maybe

that's even referrals. Great. What is

your referral process and how then once

they've been able to master what you

created a model for? I like to call this

the four M's. Model, mimic, master,

multiply. The business owner can first

create the model of what they are doing

today that's generating the $800,000 of

revenue in their plumbing business. I

take a model. I have the model. This is

what we are doing for email marketing

inside our business. Then I move into

seeing if they can mimic what is the

behavior to then move into mastering it.

And once somebody is at mastering

something inside a plumbing business for

$800,000 a year that it's generating,

they can then start to tweak and add

things and and maybe we're going to also

try one other thing. We're going to try

Instagram marketing because we know that

our plumbing clients are on Instagram

and we're going to have this strategy

here. So now I'm going to be able to add

to that. At which point when a team

member can go through those first three

M's, model, mimic, master, then they're

in a position to multiply their role.

Because if they really did master

something, the results would show that

to indicate that the business is ready

for them to add potentially a marketing

coordinator underneath the marketing

manager that can then go through those

first three steps of the process. while

the team member who was once responsible

for those things is no longer doing

those things but is being additive to

additional types of marketing inside

that business. The the other thing that

I often wonder is if people aim too low

with talent, especially like earlier

stage founders, they tend they tend

there tends to be a bit of insecurity

there and they don't want

someone to come in and tell them what to

do in a particular domain

>> because I think the further I've got in

my career, the more I've sought out

people that are like significantly

smarter than me and I see that as the

game. But in the early innings of my

career, I think I was

hiring people I could manage.

Do you think you weren't as successful

when you were hiring people you could

manage

>> 100%?

>> Because now you're able to bring on

talent to help you bring on whole new

lines of revenue, whole new

partnerships, business opportunities,

manage those things.

>> Yeah. In the early innings of my career,

I was particularly aiming at young

people that were like my age or younger

cuz I was what I was what 20. So, I'm

like, how how the hell am I going to

bring in a 45-year-old that's been doing

this for 25 years and get and and be

able to tell them anything, which is

what which was the fault in my thinking

cuz I thought my job was to tell them

what to do and to give them the vision

and but actually as I I think got more

secure in myself, I realized that the

game is the inverse, which is try and

find truly exceptional people that know

things I don't know and create the

conditions where their knowledge is adds

to the hive mind of the decisions of

this organization.

And actually that's what we need. We

need new thinking, new experiences.

>> I think that's important once you reach

$30 million of revenue. But until you as

the founder

can generate something that you can

prove works and you can replicate what

works, you open yourself up to

significant risk. And the stats show it.

the the majority of businesses, 97% of

businesses fail within 10 years. So by

trusting or thinking that you're going

to bring on somebody who's smarter than

you, you're not actually taking on your

role to say this is what I want to

build. This is what I've built so far.

before you will be additive to this

environment, I need to make sure that

what we have built so far, the $800,000

of revenue, the $2 million of revenue,

the $10 million of revenue, I need to

first make sure that you can do that.

>> Because if you can't do that, and we

can't duplicate what we're already doing

that works well, we don't know what is

the right idea to bring in because there

isn't a a core understanding of what

makes this business run today. And the

last thing that you want to do is bring

on a leader. Let's say your business is

doing $10 million of revenue and you

think that there's somebody out there

that is smarter than you who's going to

entirely change your sales process.

Maybe you weren't the best salesperson.

You hired a salesperson on very early.

They've tapped out in their ability to

add additional salespeople and really

properly run a sales team. Well, as soon

as that's happened and you're going to

bring on this external person, it would

be great if they could add $20 million

of revenue. But if it's through some

different product and different service

and different way that disrupts what got

you to 10 million, you're not at 10

million any longer. You're at 8 million

or 7 million. And there's real slipbacks

that happen. And to me, that's more of

the reality that I see, which is the

slipback because the business owner

doesn't know enough about the core parts

of the business to decide how the

business is run, what the core offer is

to have the confidence to then bring on

people who are additive that can't break

the business.

So you think we you should approach with

caution because there's risk associated

with on boarding people that might be

expensive and um

know too much about I guess be I guess

it goes back to being duped be able to

dup you by you not fully understanding

what they're saying and what they know

>> and they can't dup you if you know what

you are already doing. If you're really

willing to model what is currently being

done and they are willing to be humble

enough to come into your environment and

learn the reasons why. This doesn't have

to take years. This can take a handful

of months. I'm not talking about like

stifling innovation for quarters and

quarters or years and years to make sure

that they like really are indoctrinated

with the way that the organization

works. Absolutely not. That wouldn't

work. The way you have to do it is

quickly assessing that they understand

the way the things work inside your

current business. We just recently

brought on a new seauite um within the

first handful of weeks. I can tell that

he's picking up on what our core

business has does. And if I didn't think

that, it would be hard for me to trust

some of his recommendations because I

brought on a seuite team member earlier

this year who had all these fanciful

ideas and this, you know, the the big

names and you think that they're going

to bring on all these things, but they

can't actually contextualize what their

experience is to the core business

because they don't understand the core

business. And then it ends up

disenfranchising the team members that

they're responsible for working with.

And I have seen more often than not that

trusting too early on without that

founder getting the necessary skills

ends up in the luck scenario instead of

this was a strategy because I knew and

had certainty about what was going on

and I'm good with what my four walls

are. This is what you are going to

bring. That is incredibly additive to

that core business. But that rigor and

that discipline has to be there from the

founder first.

>> It's interesting. Yeah, it's really

interesting. And I think part of my bias

is because I've been there before. I

would never start a new business now

without aiming extremely high with the

talent. But that's actually because I'm

harder to dup now. So if you have to pay

someone a huge salary for example and

give them a huge package whatever

>> I'm better able to assess whether they

are worth it and what their ROI is going

to be versus the start of my career

where hiring someone on and taking such

a big risk on someone I didn't have

enough data to understand if I was being

duped or not. So it was a lot of faith

and trust and well they worked at this

incredible company so they must be good

and I've also seen that completely

backfire as well. um you talk about

these 10 steps to becoming a millionaire

in a video that you made uh in December

in 24 and there are a couple of things

that I wanted to to pull out here. So

you outline out outline this 10-step

process to becoming a millionaire within

a year and one of them is researching

what jobs millionaires have.

Then rate your interest and skills in

each and pick one to master.

The other one is cut out friends who

drain energy or don't stop your goals.

Study the 10 most successful people in

your field through podcast, videos, and

books.

Use every moment to build skills. Follow

only millionaires on social media and

eliminate all distractions such as

Netflix and doom scrolling.

Be willing to invest and go into debt

as without investment knowledge, you

will stay broke.

Attend events with successful people.

Research you'll be attending. Master

selling yourself, your customers, and

your team members daily.

On this point of selling, is there

anything on this subject of how to be a

great salesperson that we haven't talked

about that you think is important?

Whether it's selling yourself or selling

your ideas or selling your business or

>> one of my favorite quotes from Grant

Cardone, to the extent you are sold, you

will sell.

>> Oh, okay. So to the extent in which you

believe something is the extent you'll

be able to make others believe in the

thing.

>> Mhm. So if you're not sold on yourself,

on your business idea, on the product

that you're selling for the company that

you work for, on getting another

department to work crossunctionally with

you, if you aren't really sold on that,

you will not sell. But I think it goes a

layer deeper than that often times

because

it's easy to look at I'm not selling the

product inside my business. Maybe I'm a

team member. I'm in sales and I'm not

hitting my quota this month of cars that

I'm supposed to sell. And I'm like,

well, like I don't really feel good

about the fact that I sell cars. Like I

this car is a piece of crap. Of course,

I'm not selling the car. And you can get

very critical of the thing and

rationalize why you are not good at

sales. But if you really do take a step

back, why did you choose to sell cars in

the first place? Why is that the thing

that you said, I'm going to spend my

time and energy being sold on? You could

have chosen lots of other opportunities.

and you actually being sold on the PR

firm that you wanted to work at instead

of taking the sales job that you got and

not confronting the PR rejection that

you got landed you in this place where

you're unsold and then you're critical

of your environment and you're critical

of the product and then you think you're

not good at sales when really you just

needed to go back to that thing that you

were actually sold on because you sold

yourself on why you thought for you that

was your opportunity. then you just

missed the target and instead of being

unreasonable about the target, you

became reasonable and started selling

something you didn't believe in and then

you think that you're not good at sales.

And so the reasonleness

in yourself in what you want to be doing

is actually why I find that salespeople

can't sell. It's not about their

inherent skills. If I can get them sold

on the product, of course I'm going to

get them sold on the product. I help

business owners across the country get

sold on getting their team members to

sell roofs. I believe that somebody

knocking on the door and selling roofs

is the most important thing for that

team member. I am sold on the fact that

they're working for a roofer who cares

about them. So, I'm like, "Hell yeah,

let's get on the roof." I've was on a

roof about a month ago and then was on

another roof two months ago cuz I

literally helped these business owners

train their sales team members to sell

roofs. And these sales team members

aren't naturally interested in roofs.

They didn't wake up one day and thinking

like, "My life's dream is to sell a

roof." But what are they sold on?

They're sold on the opportunity to

potentially join this roofing company to

go from one location to two locations,

three locations, five locations because

the business owner has created that

vision for them and the salesperson can

sell themselves on the skills that they

have to understand how to sell a roof.

Maybe not the sexiest thing, but that's

a stepping stone in order to be a future

expansion partner with this business

owner because this opportunity exists.

So, how do I sell a roof? If I'm on that

roof with you and you're trying to train

me to sell the roof better,

>> how what are you saying to me is

>> Well, ideally, you're knocking on the

door of the homeowner.

>> Okay. I knock on the door.

>> You knock on the door.

>> Yeah.

>> And you go through if there was a storm.

There's all sorts of ways that you can

sell roofs, but let's say that there was

a storm nearby or recently that hit that

area and you could go the easier route,

which is going through insurance because

that roof is completely then paid for.

But then you'd need to go up on the roof

and or use a drone to look at the real

damage because that in and of itself is

a sales skill. Somebody going up and

pointing out the problem that that

person has that they do not know in that

moment that they have helps the person

feel confident in selling that roof. So,

it's just as much a part of a process to

go walk the roof or to fly a drone over

that roof to see the damage as it is a

selling mechanism for the salesperson

because you're not just selling somebody

a roof that doesn't need a roof. They

actually have a problem. And then you

would educate that sales individual on

the damage that that can do long term,

the value loss of that property. And if

you can sell the salesperson on why that

homeowner deserves to know that their

roof has something that insurance could

pay for that could get fixed for them

within a handful of weeks that doesn't

erode the biggest investment that that

person has likely made in their life,

their home. All of a sudden, I have an

army of salespeople who are interested

in selling roofs because they're sold

not just on the fact that it's a roof,

but the impact that that work makes on

the person that they're selling and

ideally the opportunity that they have

inside that company to be freaking great

at selling roofs.

>> So, you you pointed out the problem that

they have. You've then assigned a cost

to that problem, how much it's going to

cost them over the long term or short

term, and then you posed the solution,

which is to get the roof repaired. And I

guess you're trying to frame the

solution relative to the cost so that

the solution is not bigger or more

costly than the the cost of having a bad

roof.

Earlier on, you mentioned um this this

phrase which I've not heard before and

it was just before we started recording