Let's say you have a fight with your

girlfriend. You want to do the right

thing. So, you go to chat GPT and you'd

be like, this is exactly what happened.

Tell me what to do. And you go, babe, I

just want you to know I want to take

full accountability and I care about

this relationship. And she says, did you

get this answer from chat GPT? And you

go, I did.

How's that going to go?

Now, you did everything right. But what

makes people beautiful is not that we

get everything right. It's that we get

many things wrong. And I think in the

modern world we live in, we forget that.

Simon Sinek is back.

He's the visionary thinker inspiring

millions to cultivate human connection.

Find their purpose and overcome any

modern-day challenges.

So, with AI and GPT, do you think it

really is cause for concern and deeper

thought?

So, I'm not in the AI business, but I am

in the humanity business. And here's the

problem that we never talk about. People

keep telling us, life is not about the

destination, life is about the journey.

But when we think about AI, we only

think about the destination and its

remarkable ability to write the book,

paint the painting, solve the problem.

But we forget the importance of doing

the work yourself. And I think in our

modern day and age, we have

underrepresented the value of struggle.

I am smarter, better at problem-solving,

more resourceful, not because a book

exists with my ideas in it, but because

I wrote it. That excruciating journey is

what made me grow. But it's the same for

love, friendships,

conflict.

And I think that we forget that we give

up certain skills or abilities because

of technology, but it's like saying AI

will provide boats for everyone except

for the time there's a storm and you

don't know how to swim.

And unless we take personal

accountability to teach and learn human

skills, they will disappear. Sure, you

can have an AI friend and train like the

best psychologist to affirm you, the

best listening skills that exist, but my

ability to know what to do when my

friend is struggling, my ability to

function in the world or my ability to

cope with stress. These very, very human

skills are suffering.

So, what are the other skills that we

need to equip ourselves with based on

the way that the world is heading?

Two things. One is

This has always blown my mind a little

bit. 53% of you that listen to this show

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continue to do what we do. Thank you so

much.

Simon.

Good to see you again. We are live.

It's just familiar.

Familiar.

It's so interesting cuz when I sit down

to talk to you, you're one of the very

few people that I don't come with a

preconception as to what we're going to

talk about. But but I I come with a

feeling.

And the feeling that I bring forth is

the feeling of change and transition.

I have lived for 32 years, but I don't

think I can ever think of a time where

the future has felt

unclear, uncertain, scary, exciting, and

I guess unknown. And I don't just mean

with with technology, but technology is

one protagonist in the story, and

there's many other social stories

playing out from politics to

relationships, to all of these things.

So, my first question to you, Simon, is

what are those things? What are the

biggest forces of changes that you see

happening at the moment in all of our

lives that you think we should probably

talk about today?

That is a big question.

And I think one of the mistakes we make,

and this is in general,

is we like things to be very neatly

organized. We like them to be black and

white, yes or no, right or wrong.

And as you know, the world is messier

than that. It is more nuanced than that.

And nothing operates in a vacuum,

everything is connected to everything.

Especially in a in a world that's filled

with

this rising technology called the

internet and this burgeoning technology

called the social media and desires and

feeling like belonging become more and

more important. We're struggling to find

them. Loneliness epidemic, stress

epidemic, suicide epidemics. These are

all feelings of disconnection, lack of

control, and loneliness.

And so that only exaggerates our feeling

of loneliness and despair and wanting

more and etc. etc. etc. And then you add

in AI.

And now those feelings of insecurity are

just exaggerated like crazy.

Right?

So now I find AI there's an irony to AI.

Right? So if you go back to the 70s and

80s, right? You had the rise of

robotics. And so robots are now coming

into our factories and we're able to cut

employees by dramatic amounts

and we put people out on the street who

they're they worked in a factory, their

their father worked in a factory, their

father's father worked in a factory.

Like this is this is what they know. And

they say, "But these robots are changing

they're taking our jobs."

And the ruling classes and the and the

Wall Street classes and the CEO classes,

they go, "Yeah, I know. Technology.

You're going to have to find a new

skill. Reskill. Reskill. That's what

you're going to do. Reskill." Okay,

flash forward to AI. Here's where the

irony comes in. Cuz the world is always

nature pours vacuum and life seeks

balance at all times, right?

Not always immediately, but it seeks

balance at all times. It's always

seeking equilibrium. Okay, so flash

forward to AI.

Now you hear

the knowledge workers.

It's the knowledge workers who are

going, "My job." It's the coders.

It's the

finance people. "My job."

The plumber is not worried about AI

at all.

The baggage handler at the airport cares

zero about AI.

And so maybe the right response is

it's the future, man. It's technology.

Reskill. Reskill. You know? Maybe maybe

become a plumber. You you

By the way, money's really good. You get

to work for yourself if you want, you

know?

Um so, I just find the pendulum kind of

funny.

With AI, do you think it's overblown or

do you think it really

is cause for

concern and deeper thought?

The honest answer is

I don't know.

Mhm.

Everybody falls on one side of you're

over you're over you're you know, the

sky is not falling chill chicken little

or the sky is falling and we're all

going to die, right?

The The truth like most things is

probably somewhere in the middle.

But the the real answer is I don't know

and neither does anybody else.

Yeah.

And it seems that we should have some

sort of controls cuz we didn't put any

controls on the internet.

Mhm.

They did put controls on the internet in

China.

Like children don't have the same access

to

uh social media like kids do here.

Europe has controls on the internet.

And America doesn't.

And we're the ones that seem to be

suffering more because of the lack of

controls on the internet.

Mhm.

So, I think some some And by the way,

when people you know, talk about

deregulation and no controls, I mean

they make us wear seat belts in our

cars.

Yeah.

You know, there's nothing we have speed

limits.

You know, and and it's for the greater

good and yeah, sure your seat belt's

uncomfortable but you'll get used to it.

Like

and it's fine, you know? So, I I think

the call for no reform is is wrong.

Um there are

correct limits to keep things safe.

Mhm.

I'm fascinated by AI, both the benefits

and the weaknesses of it.

But it is revealing to me

something

more important than

what other people are talking about.

Which is we're

we're a results obsessed society, right?

Yeah.

We care about output, we care about

performance, we care about numbers, we

care about final product more than

anything. Right? And when people talk

about AI, they talk about its remarkable

ability to write the symphony, paint the

painting,

write the book, write the article,

uh solve the problem. Like it it is And

by the way,

the technology is incredible. I asked it

only a few months ago

to please take this and put it in the

style of me. And it was

it was fine. I did it with a friend of

mine who's also an author, and we both

did it for ourselves. We did it on each

other. It was really fun.

And it was fine. I don't think it was

good. It was

It was It gave me a good start and I

could edit it.

I did it recently. We both did it.

It was damn near flawless.

It was

it was scary good. Right?

Now, AI doesn't know the thing I'm

thinking about. It doesn't know that the

next book I'm going to write about is

friendship. It doesn't know the point of

view I'm going to have on friendship. If

you ask it, "What would Simon Sinek say

about friendship?" It's going to be,

"Why this and why that?" You know? So,

it's derivative, right? We know that.

It's not original. We know that.

But at the end of the day, the work is

good. The symphony's good. The art is

good. The article is good. The book is

decent. Like it's getting better and

better and better. But here's the

problem that we keep not talking about.

People keep telling us that life is not

about the destination. Life is about the

journey. That's what we keep being told,

right?

But when we think about AI, we only

think about the destination. We only

think about the output. We never think

about the input, right? I can tell you

that and you and I can both say the same

thing,

which is I am smarter,

better at problem-solving,

more resourceful,

better at pattern rec- pattern

recognition, not because an a a book

exists with my ideas in it, but because

I wrote it.

The excruciating pain

of organizing ideas, putting them in a

linear fashion,

trying to put them in a way that other

people can understand what I'm trying to

get out of my brain, that excruciating

journey

is what made me grow.

And sure, you can have an AI friend. And

that AI friend has been trained like the

best best psychologist to affirm you,

the best listening skills that exist.

Tell me about your day. Mm, that sounds

difficult. Mm, boy, it's hard being you.

Oh my god, it's so great being you. Have

you you know, like it's it's a it's an

affirmation machine built by a

for-profit company that wants you to

stay on. Can't neglect that.

But for the fact that nobody's learning

how to be a friend.

It'll feel good. You'll feel like you

have a friend, but you're not learning

to be a friend.

Right? And it's the

what made you a great entrepreneur is

not that the company exists.

Is that you built it with your hands and

you got the scars to show for it.

Yeah.

It was when things went wrong and you

were forced to fix them and think that

now, when problems show up,

you're quick, you're smarter. You're a

much smarter businessman now than you

were 5 years ago.

6 years ago.

Yeah.

Because you did it. And I think what

we're forgetting is that there's

something to be said for And by the way,

I'm a fan of AI. I want AI to make

things.

But I would hate to lose out on becoming

a better version of me.

And I think that um

to really learn to grow. And by the way,

I used to have a steel trap for phone

numbers. I knew everybody's phone

number.

And then all of a sudden my phone

my PDA

God, I don't need to memorize a phone

number anymore. I don't know most of the

people that I love, I don't know their

phone numbers. I type their name in.

Right? I just have to know their name.

And so, my brain literally went on

strike. It said, "Fine.

Fine. You no longer have the capacity to

remember phone numbers." And I can't

remember phone numbers to save my life.

Right? So, we give up certain skills or

abilities because of technology

regularly. Right? That's fine. I don't

have a problem with any of those things

because whether I can remember a phone

number or not will not affect my

relationships, my ability to function in

the world, or my ability to cope with

stress.

But my ability

to know what to do when my friend is

struggling.

My ability to know what to do when I

have a fight with my spouse

my or my partner.

My ability to know what to do when my

boss yells at me, but I don't want to

escalate it, or

my employee is acting out and I don't

want to escalate it or fire them.

Well, how do I resolve this?

I've missed out on those skills. And

simply asking AI, "How should I resolve

this thing?" It'll give you an answer

and it may work, and you've learned

nothing.

Right? And so it's the difference

between It's It's It's like saying AI

will provide boats for everyone.

Except for the time

there's a storm

and you don't know how to swim.

And

I'm okay use the boat.

Mhm. Also learn to swim. So I think

there's something to be said for writing

your own symphony,

painting your own painting,

building your own business,

you know,

writing your own book. Not for them, not

for the output. Not for the output.

For your personal growth.

Before I got here today, I was writing a

post for LinkedIn and I was trying to

make the case that

everybody using ChatGPT to write their

emails, their social media posts, their

investment pitches that I received

had is now making the internet feel

really inauthentic because

people that I want I knew for many many

years are now sending me these perfect

cookie cutter emails with words that

I've never heard them use before.

course.

And so when I read it, my brain mentally

discounts it as not being their opinion,

not actually being them.

Yeah.

And when you feel like you're speaking

to someone's AI

the meaning is gone. So I was I was

writing this post about how actually now

there's this premium on human written

language. Like if you make a couple of

mistakes and you use the old words, you

don't use words like forged and robust.

I'd like to forge a partnership with

you, Stephen.

Furthermore, can we I'm like you you

never said that to me, mate.

You know the the end dashes.

Oh my gosh.

It's funny, right?

It's crazy.

Yeah.

But you but you you're talking about

what you're talking about. Have you ever

heard of the Japanese concept of um uh

uh

wabi-sabi?

No.

So, wabi-sabi is a Japanese design

concept, which is beauty in that which

is temporary or imperfect.

Okay? So, have you ever seen Japanese

ceramics?

Yeah.

They're wonky.

Or the the the glaze is not even.

Yeah.

And they're beautiful. You know why?

Because they're handmade.

Tree bark, trees. You know, when you

have a wooden bowl,

wood is beautiful. Why? It's imperfect.

Right? Think and unique. Things made on

a machine

are the same

and less beautiful. And things made by

hand are beautiful because they're

imperfect. What makes people beautiful

is not that we get everything right.

It's that we get many things wrong. And

what makes us fall in love

is not the person who's perfect. It's

the person who accepts our

imperfections, and we know we're in love

when we learn to accept theirs. Not

learn to, want to.

Right? And you're 100% right. I now know

in the art world, artists are being

asked to sign affidavits

that say, "I painted this.

I made this.

Not AI. Not because it's better or

worse.

It's because I want to know it was

touched by human hands.

And so, I think you're right. What will

happen is everything will be so perfect

that it'll be as if we're all

driving or using things that everything

came off a conveyor belt.

Mhm.

And what we will start to desire is

things that are made by hand because by

the way, we think Rolls-Royce, Ferrari.

You takes 39 months to get a Ferrari.

You know why? It was made by hand.

Yeah.

Right? And one of the things that makes

it expensive is the technology and the

carbon fiber and all that. But the other

thing is it's slow and was made by

people.

Human error, the value of human error.

The value of human error.

Scooter Braun said to me the other day,

he said um

we could watch a computer play chess

with another computer. He goes, "But the

the chess games that have the highest

demand are one human versus another

because when a computer plays a

computer, the moves are predictable and

they're the same and they're perfect.

But it's the human error of two human

chess players who are worse, objectively

worse at chess, that makes it so

fascinating."

Yes, it's

and that's any sporting event. Any

sporting event. It's not the perfection

of the game, it's the error that loses

the game that adds the drama. And

and and it's like trying not to make a

mistake is as powerful as trying to get

everything right. And it's the humanity

of the sport, the humanity of the

competition. It is the imperfection and

I think that we forget as people what

makes us beautiful. Like when you go on

a first date

Mhm.

or a first interview,

Mhm.

all you do is present perfection.

Mhm.

Put on my my best clothes,

you know, dressed up. I know I don't

dress like this every day. I dressed up

on my date, right? My interview, I don't

wear this. This is what I wore for my

interview cuz I want to put out a good

impression. And I practiced and I and I

make myself confident I've got a great

job and I've got a great personality and

I love my mother and my goodness and

everything's great. And then you get in

the relationship, you get the job and

you become a slob.

Right?

This is what AI is. It's it's

it's to your point, it's

it's fake.

Mhm.

It's on the interview example, the

minute you start describing that, I

immediately flash back to an interview I

had last week at our company where a

young kid walks in wearing a suit and I

thought, "Now I I have no idea who you

are

because I know that's not you. I know

that you don't wear a suit. You're 22

years old. You do not wear a suit. So, I

have no indication, I have no clues as

to who you are, and therefore, it's

harder for me to figure out if you fit

here. And I think of because what he

tried to do that was show up perfect how

he what he thought perfect was,

and in some ways to hide who he actually

was. Whereas, this is why I like now on

the internet sloppy text. I like

grammatical mistakes.

But you at the same time you don't want

him to show up and put his feet on to

kick his shoes off and put his feet on

the table, either.

In the same way that

There's an element of respect you want,

and you want somebody in their first

interview to put on some effort. Now,

too much effort

Yeah.

is

pretty inauthentic, but too little

effort

what's that?

This is my diagram. You've got perfect

Yeah.

on one end, which is low, and then

you've got poor, which is also low. The

sweet spot

Yeah.

is right here in the middle.

Yeah, well, I think there's some truth

to that. And so,

there's a level of you know, like it's

the same thing as like we all want

vulnerability in our relationships, but

not on the first day.

Like I don't need to know that quite

yet.

You know?

What are the other skills that you think

we need to equip ourselves with based on

the way that the world is heading?

Because with you know,

like the calculator came along, and we

no longer needed to be able to do

complicated math.

I've completely forgotten my times

tables.

I can't spell anymore. It's all fine. I

said to my friends, "The most I can do

is 9 * 9. That's like the top end of my

range."

But with spelling, it's the same. I get

like half the word correct, and then I

don't know what they are, and it doesn't

But but again, uh you know,

So, what are those skills that

I think it's all human skills. I think

there needs So, I think where the world

is going to go, and at least this is

where I'm taking a bet,

is that as the end product becomes

easier to produce,

it's the humanity that's going to

suffer.

And unless we take personal

accountability both as individuals and

organizations to teach and learn human

skills, they will disappear for all the

reasons we're talking about. So, how do

I listen?

How do I hold space?

How do I resolve conflict peacefully?

How do I give and how do I receive

feedback? Those are all two different

skills.

How do I have an effective

confrontation? You pissed me off.

Do I know how to approach you as a

friend, as a colleague without creating

a massive fight or losing a friendship

over it? Um how to take accountability,

how to express empathy. These skills,

these very, very human skills are the

things that we're already starting to

see

just with the internet and social media

um are suffering. And so, I think AI

will only exaggerate the loss of those

skills, and those skills are more

important than learning how to spell.

One of the concerning things was I heard

Sam Altman, who's the founder of OpenAI

and ChatGPT, launch this thing called

Worldcoin a couple of years ago when

ChatGPT really started taking off. And

it has been closely tied to the concept

of universal basic income.

Mhm.

The idea, the overarching idea is that

in a world where AI and automation

eliminate many jobs, UBI may be

necessary. Worldcoin is one way to help

implement it. That was stated by the

founder of ChatGPT, Sam Altman.

Yeah. I just again, I'll go back to my

ironic statement before. Isn't it ironic

that they want to do a a universal

income, a standard universal income, now

that the knowledge workers are losing

their jobs, but when the factory workers

were losing their jobs,

those same people were massively against

uh

uh these kinds of things. So,

I mean, yes.

What happens to purpose

it's ironic.

and meaning if we're being cuz for

anybody that doesn't know what universal

basic income is, the idea is the

government, the state, whatever would

pay you a certain amount of money every

single

salary.

So, $2,000, $3,000, whatever it might

be.

Yeah.

Um because they don't think

many of us are going to have There's not

going to be enough jobs to go around.

And I wonder what happens to purpose and

meaning and pursuing challenge and all

these things

in a world where we're just being handed

money?

So, we're not being given wealth.

There's a difference. We're being given

survival money, right? And so, you know,

you know, we have to be very careful

that says, you know, everybody who's on

welfare is lazy. You know, that's not

true, you know? So, we have to be very

careful that just because we give

somebody something doesn't mean that

they cease to have ambition or purpose

or drive. It's like somebody who who

makes a a commission salary, commission,

you know, works on commission and they

make just enough to pay their rent and

buy food and that's it. Like, that's a

lot that's a lack of ambition, you know?

The cases,

at least the people I've heard talk

about it, they make a compelling case

for it, especially in a world where

there is plenty of wealth.

Um, but, you know, I don't know enough

about it to make an argument for or

against it, if I'm honest. Um, but I do

find it ironic

that

the Sam Altmans of the world are calling

for it, given the fact that it's there's

going to be so many job losses when it's

jobs of their kind. And like, I also

think that's funny. Like, what's going

to happen

when

Sam Altman's product gets good enough

that he can lay off most of his staff?

Just curious.

What happens?

He has made a point of having, I think

it's 100 people or less in his company.

He doesn't have like a big team. And I

think part of that is because when I

heard his TED Talk a couple of days ago,

he's saying, yeah, I think AGI is sooner

than we think, actually. And I think

we're going to have a fast takeoff,

which means it's going to arrive very

quickly and accelerate very quickly. So,

I think he's actually preparing not to.

Yeah, but when happen what happens to

the 90 people he lays off?

When he doesn't need 100, he only needs

10.

Th- This is the question.

I'm just curious. I don't know. And this

is why anybody who has an opinion about

it, the answer is we don't know. But, I

think people react very differently when

it's their job on the line.

Mhm. When it's their income on the line.

When it's their pride. When it's their

ego.

You know? I keep hearing from companies,

I mean, you we were talking about this

before we turn on the cameras. You know,

you know, you talk to if you want a new

website,

you I guarantee you I don't I don't care

which company you talk to, they will all

talk about how they AI this, AI that,

and you ask the question, are you using

AI? Yes, we're using AI, we're doing it

differently, we're the future, blah blah

blah.

And then you ask them for a proposal,

it's going to look like all the other

proposals from 2015.

You know? And this is how many hours

it's going to take our people to program

this and code this. And I was like, what

happened to all the AI? Why is this

slow and expensive

when everything's supposed to be fast

and inexpensive?

Because they're taking the margin.

Of course they're taking the margin. And

and they've got a lot of people doing

things the old-fashioned way because

the business model, you know, pe- people

work very hard to put The status quo

exists

because there are people who benefit

from the status quo.

You know, that's why there is a status

quo.

And it's uh and you know, like I said,

everybody's into change the future, you

know, until it's until it's them

that's threatened.

Or their income.

The billionaires that I that I know, the

one consistent thing they've whispered

to me about AI is that

people are going to have a lot of free

time.

That's one of the things that's been

really consistent. You're so right when

you say that when I asked you about the

future of AI, you said, "I don't know."

The reason why I know that's probably

the correct answer generally is because

when I sat with the most advanced people

in AI, whether it's Mustafa who's head

of Microsoft AI, now CEO of Microsoft

AI, or people from Google, or the CEO of

Google, or Reid Hoffman who's the

founder of LinkedIn, they all had

different opinions.

Which made me to think actually the

right answer is nobody knows.

The right answer is nobody That is

correct. And and and you always be be be

aware of the messenger, right? Like you

won't have anybody who owns an AI

company talking doomsday scenarios.

It's not in their economic interest,

even if they secretly harbor that. It's

like people who

used to run cigarette companies didn't

smoke and let them they didn't let their

family smoke. It's like I remember

visiting Facebook in the earlier days

and they

I went into the cafeteria and they had

like

like picnic benches.

And I was like and they were telling me

with pride how they have these communal

eating areas to help people maintain

relationship. And I was like this is

hilarious. You literally have a product

that breaks relationships and yet you

understand enough to make people eat

together at lunchtime so that they'll

maintain relationship. I mean

the point being if your economic

interest, you know, show me how

someone's paid and I'll show you how

they behave.

You know.

One of the scariest conversations I was

privy to was one a friend of mine who's

a billionaire in London he knows the CEO

of one of the biggest AI companies in

the world who I can't name and he said

by the way what he tells me in private

is not what he's saying in publicly.

Yeah.

I he he said to me that what this

particular CEO thinks is going to happen

with AI is pretty horrific. And the CEO

of this big AI company is totally cool

with it. It's It's and it's horrific

what he thinks is about to happen. And

then when I watch this guy do his like

online talks and give his opinion he's

so nuanced and everything will be fine

and he's an AI optimist. Then I heard

this scenario at this kitchen table in

East London from his friend about what

he really thinks and it was

chilling.

Yeah.

Like actually the lack of empathy

Yeah.

That makes sense to me.

the the obsession with power

was shocking to me.

Yeah. The obsession with power and money

and all the rest of it. Yeah.

But this is because the internet has

done something really strange

and and challenged one of my theories

head-on, right? So I talk about in an

infinite game

you know, Jim Jim Carse his theory. You

know, in an infinite game there's no

winners or losers, right? And so like

nobody wins, you know,

fast food.

Nobody wins cars. Like

General Motors, Ford, Vauxhall they can

all exist at the same time, right?

And they'll have degrees of success or

not success, but they can all exist

simultaneously. No one is going to win.

The exception is in the internet. In in

the like like Amazon

it won.

Yeah.

Like you know, Google for search?

Yep, they won.

Right? And if you start going down like

the big big tech companies

there is only one. I mean, sure there's

competition, but not really, right? Who

you know,

Walmart is making a run of it to

threaten Amazon, but Amazon's still so

damn big. You know, all of these

companies that there's only one.

And

that's not good.

That you can't have winners in a in a

category. And so this is why I think the

the race for AI is so aggressive for AI

dominance is so aggressive and which is

why people are not being careful and

which is why they're not putting

controls is because the way that tech

seems to work is there probably will be

one dominant standard and then that's

it.

And the question is which one? Because I

don't think

it just seems to be the way it is.

Which is a very scary prospect to me

that the the fact that we can have

winners

is is a bad thing, especially if we if

we pride ourselves on being capitalists.

Then there cannot be there cannot be a

winner. And there cannot be one that is

so dominant that that nobody else can

even

compete except for scraps.

What are your emotions when you think

about AI and what's happening cuz

I I feel like the moment we're living in

is a profound one and that we don't

actually realize it. Because when these

tools come out, Open AI released

yesterday

3.0, it's the best model ever.

The day after my life was the same.

So we don't really notice it cuz we go

back to work, our clients ask for the

same thing, we have the same team

members sat around us. The it almost

seems like the sand timer is rotated

and we're on a clock.

And it's a slow disruption of our

everyday lives. Sam Altman the other day

on his TED Talk two three four days ago

he in the short term everything will

appear the same, but in the long term,"

he goes, "life is going to be completely

different."

that's right. I mean, and look at any

any technology like the like AI,

it was kind of the same until it wasn't.

And these are evolutions, not

revolutions. Like there's a

revolutionary bit,

Mhm.

you know? Like I remember when when the

internet showed up and like brick and

internet shopping showed up and all the

technologists were like, "It's the end

of stores. It's the end of bricks and

mortar. Like done. Like we'll never go

to a shop again."

Well, that didn't happen. Now, shops

struggle to compete against internet,

but that's a price thing. Right? That's

that's a business model thing. But we

like going shopping because again,

they've all of these companies always

forget, especially technologists,

they all forget that the end user is a

human being. And most of us

don't fully understand everything. Even

even our iPhones, most people use a a

small percentage of all the capabilities

of our iPhones. Most of us don't even

know how to change the damn settings to

make it do something we want. Right?

Even and you neither do your kids. It's

not an adult thing. Right? It's not an

old person thing. Like

and there's a few people who get more

out of it and good for them.

Some people use it just as a phone.

Fine.

And it's a bell curve. So, I think there

will be a few people and a few companies

that will get more value out of these

things than the rest of us. But I think

he's right. I think there'll be a

revolutionary bit

and then it'll settle.

I I I'm I find this whole thing

fascinating. When you ask me how do I

feel, you know, depending on what

subject I'm talking about,

absolute fear

and absolute amazement. I I I have I

have both and everything in between.

When I think about how it affects

democracy and the ability to make deep

fakes and and how it can manipulate

people and their opinions to vote one

way or another,

I have real fear.

Yeah.

Right? When it comes to like

productivity and the reshaping of

business, you know, technologists and

people who who are part of the internet

revolution, they love to say, you know,

20 years ago, 80% of the jobs we have

now didn't exist. They love to say that,

right? But when you ask them now,

they'll

they

they they'll

they seem to think that I think it's the

same, which is all those people who are

going to lose those jobs in

white-collar, you know, in white-collar

jobs and knowledge workers.

I they they're not they're not going to

not work. There's going to be new jobs.

The IRS digitized a whole bunch of years

ago, right? They got rid of all the

accountants and they put in all the

computers, right?

Do you know how much money the IRS saved

when it when it

cha- completely changed the the way it

looked?

No.

The answer is zero. Yes, they got rid of

all the accountants and they needed to

hire all the IT people.

Mhm.

So, the the the the workforce looks

different, but it didn't get smaller.

And so, I think it's the same thing.

What it's we're we also we already know

the massive, incredible amounts of

energy

that it takes for AI to work. Data

centers that use up massive amounts of

electricity like we've never seen in our

lives.

Like nuclear has to be a thing. There

isn't enough coal or oil or solar or

wind to power these things. It just

doesn't exist. So, nuclear has to be a

thing. So, go be a nuclear engineer. Go

You want to get an advanced degree? I

don't need you to be a coder. You know,

coding was a thing for a Go be a nuke.

Cuz by the way, you got to be just as

smart to be a nuke as you have to be a a

a a a So, you're going to start to see

that. You know, you're going to see

energy work. Um

I just think the jobs will change. I

don't think they're going to like it's I

I completely One thing I do disagree

with, you know, which is not like you're

going to be a bunch of people walking

around bored.

I just think the jobs will change.

If there was a a 10-year-old kid stood

here now and the 10-year-old said to us,

said, "Guys, what do you think I should

focus on?"

I would say two things.

Um

uh one is going back to human skills.

Learn how to be a good friend to your

friends.

Okay, how do I learn that?

You're going to really need that. How

does a 10-year-old learn that or how do

you and I learn that?

Both.

A 10-year-old learns it that when they

go and have a playdate at a friend's

house, a smart parent takes away all the

phones. I would hate that the

10-year-old has a phone in the first

place, but if they do, take away all the

phones

and make the kids go play.

That when they have a fight,

the parents make them say sorry, you

know, go over to your friend's house and

knock on the door and you're going to

say sorry for the thing that you did.

Um we're going to teach kids how to

resolve conflict. We're going to teach

kids how to take compliments. We're

going to teach kids how to take

accountability.

And these are all the skills of, you

know,

well, what did you do wrong versus what

did you what did what you know, like

it's not like

you know,

it's not always the school or the

teacher. Maybe your kid did is

disruptive, you know? And so

accountability is a real thing.

And so I think if we teach those things

to 10-year-olds and to adults,

um I think it makes for a better

society. And the other thing is go learn

a real skill.

And I don't mean like that, you know,

prompting isn't a real skill. That's not

what I mean. It's what I said before,

which is it's the excruciating like what

makes great relationships great is not

that you get along all the time.

The best marriages, the best

relationships,

they're not absent of conflict. It's

they know how to resolve conflict

peacefully.

By the way, I believe in world peace. I

don't believe in a world without

conflict. I believe a world in which we

can resolve our conflict peacefully

without the need to go to war to resolve

conflict. This is why I like democracies

cuz democracies can solve conflict

without bullets. So I the human skills

work, but I say a real skill mean like

go do something difficult.

Build something,

design something,

imagine something, write something,

and and and and by the way, I'm totally

fine even if you plug it into chat GPT

and say tell me what's wrong with this.

Your grammar's all screwed up. You know?

And like I said, I

I am smarter because I did it.

I'm

the reason I'm more confident than when

I was younger.

And I think that's one of the things you

do. People talk about you get wise with

age. You know, and like and you know,

you have more confident as you get

older. And yes, that's all true and

there's multiple reasons for it. But I

think one of the reasons is is the

things that are happening to me now,

I've gone through those things before.

They were scary and kept me up at night

the first time.

And now,

I know how to do it. I'm not afraid of

it anymore. And so, I think what happens

as you gain experience,

is you lose fear.

And if ChatGPT or whatever AI product we

use does everything for us,

I think you just end up scared.

One of the things that I'm contending

with at the moment,

with this new technology that's arrived,

being an entrepreneur,

seeing this huge opportunity, thinking

about the dot-com boom, and all the

great opportunity that that created,

people talking about the age of

abundance and all these things, is I'm

contending with the question on a

personal level, which is when is enough

enough? And maybe this question is more

pertinent now than ever in a world where

creating stuff, building stuff, starting

a company, launching a book, the cost of

creating these things, whether they're

good or not so good, has gone to

basically zero.

Yeah.

So, we can all theoretically from our

computers now become movie directors and

authors and software developers. And so,

with this possibility, this opportunity,

and the the thing we need to deploy is

intention. Like, what do I do? What is

the thing that's going to lead me to

happiness? Do I pursue all of these

things and start building and creating

and running off down that path to climb

some ladder?

Or do I take a second? When is enough

enough? And as an entrepreneur who is in

this moment has a lot of resources,

could roll the dice, could start all

these new companies, could do all of

these things,

when is enough enough?

No.

right? Like

we

there's something to be said for

gratitude.

And if you want to make it money, we

know the data on this.

Right? I think once you reach I can't

remember the number is $70,000 a year of

income.

Like you like when you talk about money

can't buy happiness, like it absolutely

buys happiness up to a certain level,

which is survival and then a little bit

more, you know?

But once you reach a certain level like

the there's no discernible increase in

happiness that comes with money. Now,

what money buys is options,

you know? What money buys is time,

you know?

Um those things are true, and you you

said it. Like some of the people that

you and I know who have

made generational wealth,

they're not discernibly happy. The ones

that are happier were happy before they

made the money.

And the ones who thought the money would

buy them happiness, or worse, the money

took away their purpose because when

they made the money they were driven by

something that they accidentally made

the money. They built businesses that

were

that those were their passions and their

cause, and then the money came and they

weren't building the thing anymore, and

you know?

This this is the this is the difference

is like why this

it's really interesting. It also gets

the question is why is it that small

companies are more innovative than big

companies? Right? Like you think about

it. When you say what's the secret for

for innovation? Well, you want to have

resources, you want to have great

people, and you want to have great

market opportunities, and then you can

have great ideas. Okay. So, big

companies have tons of money, they hire

have all the best people, they have

mature

marketplaces that people generally know

who they are, and they're the least

innovative organizations on the planet.

Right? Then you have little companies

that have no money, they're

bootstrapping it, they don't have enough

people, nobody knows who they are in the

[ __ ] market conditions, and yet they're

more innovative. And then big companies

innovate by buying the little companies.

You know, that's basically what happens.

My exit, your exit, big company can't

innovate, they just bought you, right?

Why is that?

Why is that the rule? And so, it goes

directly to this, I think. I think the

reason is is because when you're small,

your ambitions are bigger than the

resources you have to achieve those

ambitions. Every small business has

outsized ambitions.

Like beyond

objectively stupid. Like you look at

what they have and what they've got and

you they tell you where they're going to

be and you're just like,

"No." And yet some of them do.

And I think the problem with big

companies is their ambitions are well

within

their their capabilities, their

resources. In other words, their vision

isn't big enough.

And I think your vision has to be bigger

than the amount of money, resources, and

intelligence that you have to achieve

that.

And what that produces is creativity.

And so, it goes right back to this,

which is if if if we can do so much

with AI,

then we need bigger visions. And so,

when you ask me, "How do you find

happiness?"

I think that we need to set our sights

on things that are bigger than finite

success.

Um and I think we do need a gratitude

practice, regardless of how little or

how much you have.

To be grateful for what you do have

is a profound impact. I went through

this with the LA fires,

right? The

I was very lucky that my house survived

and I didn't have to get evacuated, but

the evacuations were getting closer and

closer.

And

two things happened that were profound

that live that I will that live with me

now. One which is resolvable and one

which is unresolvable. We were all

obsessed with this app called Watch

Duty,

which is how we tracked the fires. It

basically took all the publicly

available information and put it in one

place in a really amazing way, right?

Started by this amazing, amazing,

amazing entrepreneur named John Mills.

And we were all obsessed with Watch

Duty. We all were what on this app the

whole time. And one of the things we

were watching was the wind.

Cuz if the wind shifted, it could have

profoundly impact your life.

And I remember having this experience

like we were all watching the wind.

And the wind went away from me. And I

thought

Oh, thank god.

And in that moment I knew that somebody

was looking at the app going, "Oh god,

no."

And it's not like service where I'll eat

a little less so that somebody can eat

more. I'll give up some of my income so

that somebody has It's not one of those

I don't want my house to burn down so

somebody else's house doesn't burn down.

And I asked I had to live with this

paradox of how unfair the world is. That

simultaneously my relief and good news

was some was somebody else's stress and

bad news. And there was nothing I could

do to change that. So that paradox

I

it

is horrible and I It was It was right in

front of me. So that's one. But it's the

second part

which is

the evacuation zones were coming a

little closer and they were one zone

away from where where I live.

And we didn't know if we were going to

be woken in the middle of the night with

a with an alarm to evacuate. We didn't

know.

And so we had I had to go through the

process of packing up my car and making

my go bag. And I put as much stuff in my

car as I could. And I had to, you know,

we all play that game like, "If there's

a fire and you have to run out and grab

two things, what would you grab?" I had

to do that.

Right? A lot of people in LA had to do

that. Right? You actually had to make

the decisions. What am I going to take

and what am I going to leave behind? And

I found myself bringing things that I

never thought were important to me. And

I found myself leaving things behind

that

I thought I would take.

But the one thing that was amazing

was stuff that I couldn't fit.

But I still had love for it like my

favorite painting in the world. It's

just I couldn't fit it in my car.

I stood there in front of it. And I

said, "Thank you." And I said,

"Goodbye."

And it was like saying goodbye to a

loved one. You know, I hear this, you

know, somebody loses a parent. They go,

"Look, it was awful and, you know, he

suffered as on his deathbed, but I'm

glad I was with him to say goodbye.

And it was the most amazing thing to

have gratitude for something that I

don't want to lose, but accepted that I

I might.

And

it's made me a lot more disconnected

from my material things.

Especially the things I said goodbye to

cuz I've already said goodbye to them. I

had had I just sold some of my art for

for charity.

And people said, "How did you love your

art?" I'm like, "I know. Like my art's

like my babies." Like the how did you

choose? And I said, "I've already said

goodbye to everything here. I did it

months ago."

You know? And I think this idea of

gratitude, gratitude for what we have,

but also

um like you're going to lose your

parents.

All of us will lose our parents.

Hopefully hopefully hopefully

uh they don't ever have to say goodbye

to us, but we if things go well, we're

going to have to say goodbye to our

parents.

And

we can't be angry about it. We want to

say thank you for the times we had.

And I think to have that a level of

appreciation for everything in our

lives, how temporary all of this is,

I think that's it makes you happier. I

know it sounds

it's

it makes you happier to just look at

someone and be grateful.

You know, failed relationships,

you could be angry at the other person

or you can be grateful for the lessons

they taught you and or for the good

times you had.

And I think to change our minds to

gratitude,

and you can you know, it's it sounds

it's a little bit you know, hippy dippy

to have a gratitude practice and

that's fine. You know, if that's your

thing, lie in bed every night or keep a

journal and just say the things you're

grateful for.

But

I don't know if it works without an

evacuation zone approaching.

I don't know, but to go around your home

and just say thank you to the things

that you like

is a weird thing. How many of us How

many of us

When was the last time you called a

friend out of the blue

and just said thanks for being my

friend?

Like hey

just wanted to call and just tell you I

love you. Just tell you thank you. And

you know

that's all. No just a quick just 2

minutes just just want to say thank you

for being my friend. I think if I said

that to one of my best friends they'd

think I was losing my mind or something

or that something was wrong. They'd be

so concerned cuz it's such an unusual

thing for me to Okay. So you can do it

this way. So I had a guest on the

podcast and he came up with this thing

that is so outside of my personality but

I'm going to try it.

Yeah that would make sense.

And you can do that.

You know?

I'm I'm new to this. You know I I know

for years people have been like you

should have a gratitude practice and

keep a gratitude journal. And I tried

it. I was like

okay

I'm grateful for my sister, grateful for

what I've

for my family, grateful for my friends,

grateful for the life that I live.

All right good night. All right next

day.

I'm grateful for my sister, grateful for

my family, grateful for my friends. You

know and I found it so repetitive

that I was like is this worth it?

Like

sure like every now and then something

was different and new. And I've come to

come to the conclusion like

if it's the same three things every

single day

good.

I was thinking about this a lot the

other day when someone asked me

think about all the people in your life

and imagine if they were sick and

imagine if you had a billion dollars in

your bank and the billion dollars could

cure

their sickness.

Like who would you cure it for for?

Would you would you spend a billion

dollars to cure your your girlfriend's

sickness, your your mother's sickness,

your father's sickness, your

whatever. Even if it was the the the

risk to them was was low and you would.

I'd give every pet penny I had to cure

an illness that my girlfriend had even

if the risk was low.

And as I was thinking through that I was

like but then if you look at my calendar

and how I'm allocating my time against

these individuals and against my

priorities there's a real imbalance

here. And over the last couple of weeks

in particular, I've been on a bit of a

journey of realizing just how important

four or five people in my life are.

I I

and how much I neglect them.

Yeah, I mean like of course. I mean

we're

only when it's

and it's you're right. Like it's just if

you say give a billion dollars and you

can cure this disease that affects, you

know, 2 million people, 10 million

people, you'd be like,

"Eh,

I'll give some money, right?" But if it

was one family member, you would exhaust

every resource, you would quit your job,

you would do everything you can

for a 1% chance.

for a 1% chance. You know, and people

do. They quit their jobs when and like

all so many charities have been started

because my father died, my mother died,

my sister died, my brother died, and

I've devoted my life to duh, right? Like

like literally that's the reason.

And it's because it's personal. Of

course, that makes sense. It's why why

are some entrepreneurs good and some

entrepreneurs bad? Well, how personal is

the thing that you're working on to you?

Because then I only like to like the

entrepreneurs that I love,

I want to know that they are solving a

problem that they struggled with or that

somebody they love struggled with or

something. If they they read an article

in a magazine, "Oh, this is a great

market opportunity." There is no passion

there. That is driven by money

and power only. I want to know somebody

that is it's so deeply personal to them

that they will stop at nothing.

They will run through a brick wall and

find every creative solution. And it

goes right back to the small company

versus big company. It's it's passion

and a vision that is bigger than the

resources that I have.

Which you know,

I had a conversation with somebody

recently actually

where

they wanted to

uh we were we uh

it was a business problem

and they wanted to change the goals.

And I said, "We can't just change the

goals because they're difficult.

You know, so we might miss the goal.

It's true. Yes, we have a very

aggressive goal and the likelihood of us

hitting it is incredibly low, but

why would we lower it?

And they said to me,

you know, I don't like to fail, they

said. I don't like to fail, and I know

you don't either.

And I said, ah, that's where you're

wrong.

That's where you're wrong. I have spent

most of my life a failure.

And I'm very comfortable being a

failure, and I think of myself not as a

success.

I think of myself as a failure. And

that's because my ambitions are bigger

than my skills or my ability to achieve

those ambitions. And so, almost

everything I've done, with a couple of

exceptions, have fallen short of what I

had hoped for.

I'm very comfortable with that.

Because failing at 80% is really much

better than succeeding at 30%.

And I think this idea of fear of failure

and embracing failure, I don't want to

fail.

But I just

I I have

I think it's important to have dreams

that are beyond your skills or your

resources.

Because that's where creativity comes

from.

That's where

resourcefulness comes from.

You know, when you go, how am I going to

figure this one out? And you told me the

stories of your own team.

You know, it's the resourceful ones. And

now we go back to AI.

AI is not going to figure that out.

Right?

There's There's data on this. I have

actually never thought about this. This

is good. There was a book called Oh, it

was The Wisdom of Crowds. I think it was

that one.

I think it was The Wisdom of Crowds by

James Surowiecki.

Where people with experience knew what

to do versus people who were just

trained. So, I'll give you the example.

This is I can't I can't Again, I might

have the book wrong, but this was I

remember the case. So, there was a a

bunch of firemen fighting a fire in like

the in wildfires, right? And the wind

picked up, and the fire was coming

really fast towards these firemen. True

story.

And they all started running for their

lives as this fire was approaching them

unbelievably quickly. But the problem

was if they looked ahead,

there was a small hill, which means

you're going to slow down cuz you can't

run fast up a hill. And this fire is

coming fast, right? The senior guy on

the on the team started screaming, "Get

down. Get down. Get down." And they all

ignored him. They were all running for

their lives. And he just stopped running

and got down and put his hands over his

head and just lay in a ball

and the fire was going so fast that it

blew right over him.

And it caught up with the other guys and

burned them all to death.

Now, they didn't teach them that in fire

school.

It It was accumulated knowledge of

wisdom of that came from experience that

he knew the right thing to do in the

moment. He was able to read the tea

leaves in a way and his his gut,

whatever that means, his gut said the

right thing to do is to drop down.

You'll be okay.

And this is why I'm going to sound like

a broken record.

The importance of doing the work

yourself,

of writing the book, painting the

painting, choreographing the dance, you

know,

composing the symphony, building the

business, having the difficult

conversation, stumbling and bumbling,

right? The reason for it Like let's say

you have a fight with your your your

girlfriend.

You don't want to be in a fight. You

don't like being in a fight. You want to

do the right thing. So, you go to chat

GPT and you'll be like, "My girlfriend

and I had a fight. This is what the

fight was about. Okay? I think I did

some stuff wrong. I think she did some

stuff wrong. This is exactly what

happened. Tell me what to do."

And you go, "Babe,

I just want you to know I want to take

full accountability. I'm really I'm

really sad that this happened and I want

you to know that I care about this

relationship." And she says to you,

"Did you get this answer from chat GPT?"

And you go, "I did."

How's that going to go?

Right? Now, you did everything right.

You did everything right.

You did everything right.

But for the fact, and it goes right back

to what you said,

which is it removed the humanity, it

removed the personality. It's

artificial. It's fake. It's everything

you said about the job interview. It's

everything you said about all those

other things, about all the resumes, all

of the pitch decks.

It's not you telling me sorry, it's

ChatGPT telling me sorry. And even

though you went with good intention to

get it right, I would rather you get it

wrong and bumble and fumble it with me

and be like, "Babe, I don't know how to

do this. I'm an asshole."

You know, and then she fights with you

because you get it wrong and you

rumble through it together.

And what happens when you come You've

had this happen. I know because I have

and I know anybody everybody has.

When you come out of the fight, you're

closer.

Mhm.

Not cuz you got it right.

Because you got it wrong. And if you

learn the skill

and you get better and better and better

and better and you do learn the skill of

saying the right thing and you do learn

the skill. She knew it wasn't because

you asked AI in the moment because you

just wanted to resolve the problem and

remove the tension. It's because you

learned the skill for the time that you

don't know when it's going to happen

because you're equipped for this

relationship.

Mhm.

And it's that investment in the

relationship rather than trying to

transactionally solve the problem before

me. And that's the difference.

Mhm.

It's infinite versus finite. It's

transaction versus It's destination

versus journey. I'm in the journey of

this relationship versus I have a

destination. I got to solve this problem

now otherwise this is going to destroy

my relationship. And all of this is

coming full circle. And it comes right

back to everything we started this. I

think it's hilarious that you and that

you're having a conversation with me

about AI cuz I'm not an AI expert and

I'm not in the AI business.

But I I am in the humanity business. And

I think everything we're talking about

from every angle we're battle testing

this idea. And what we can't get away

from is human beings really want human

beings.

And human beings really want human

experiences.

Mhm.

And human beings really want things made

by human beings. And we are not only

okay with

we want imperfection.

Because imperfection is the sign

of human.

I was just thinking about how

how when I'm in an argument with my

partner

if she was perfect, if she was

completely composed, if she was looking

at me

without emotion, without expression, and

if she was spewing chat GPT-like

responses back at me

it would it would be a little bit

infuriating, but also it would be

completely dehumanizing as you say. And

it's funny how actually even in conflict

I want emotion. I want imperfection. I

want res- human resonance.

It's interesting cuz I've been like

thinking about my

Struggle is a good thing.

Yeah.

And I think in our modern day and age we

have under

appreciated and underrepresented the

value of struggle.

And if you ask anybody in their life

you know, tell me about a time in your

career

where

like you felt like boy, this is the most

amazing thing I've ever done. I'm so

glad I'm a part of this. It's not the

big win. It's not the big success. It's

not we finished everything on time and

under budget.

It's oh my god, this one thing went

horribly wrong.

Oh my god, it went so badly and yet the

way we came together like the most

important thing in my career was when I

lost my passion and went into deep

depression. Never want to go through

that again. Really glad it happened. And

all of our relationships, professional,

personal, romantic, whatever they are

right? All of our relationships

get better when we go through struggle

together.

And we know we know the way the human

animal works. We know that oxytocin is

released when you have shared struggle.

That's why when you put people in boot

camp and they go through [ __ ] together

or there's a a natural a national a

natural disaster. Like all of all of a

sudden I don't care who you voted for.

I saw your house blow down in the

tornado. I got you. Don't worry. We're

neighbors. Right? Like we can put aside

all the rational nonsense.

The the the intellectual nonsense. And

at the end of the day human beings

are are are good at helping human

beings.

Struggle also in many contexts is the

value. So when I think about a Simon

Sinek book, the reason why I value it is

because I know that Simon Sinek spent

years writing that thing and pulling it

together. The reason why

certain handmade things that we talked

about earlier are valuable is because of

the pain and the toil that went into

them. And when you think about the art

world and other creations through

history, the value comes from the fact

that human beings came together for a

prolonged period of time

and did something. And actually, the

investment is the value. Like the the

amount that went in the top creates

value.

We're not buying the product, we're

buying the story.

Yeah. Like the Mona Lisa is

You're not buying the Mona Lisa. You're

not buying a piece of art, you're buying

the story that goes with the art. The

story that it took to create the art.

What the artist was going through, what

they were thinking. You're not buying my

book, you're buying the story of the

making of my book.

And the Mona Lisa was stolen from what I

understand.

I mean, we don't even know if the the

one in the Louvre is the real one.

Cuz I had mentioned the reason why the

Mona Lisa is so valuable is because at

one point it was stolen and then they

like managed to find it again. And

actually, it's just a painting, but the

story of the

The story is amazing.

100 million, 200 million, whatever.

Whatever. I mean, and so this is what we

figure The reason famous artists are

famous is cuz you buy the story of that

artist, not not their talent.

There's a lot of

famous singers and actors and painters,

dancers who are a lot

less talented than the unknown ones, but

you buy into the story.

And this is why some celebrities,

as much as they talk about the paparazzi

and the tabloids, they want to be in the

paparazzi and the tabloids. They want

the paparazzi to follow them because it

keeps their story relevant. It keeps

them, you know, they're worth more

because they're in the zeitgeist.

Apple know this better than anybody cuz

you go to an Apple store and they've

laid out their products as if

it was an art gallery.

The

3 ft either side of the iPhone create

the impression in my mind that that this

is a piece of art and there's only one

of them. And the fact that they've

wasted all this space, which I know real

estate costs money and that must have

been expensive, pulls into the device

itself. If I go into an Apple store and

there was a thousand iPhones, like the

old electronic stops all stacked on top

of each other, I would assume the iPhone

was worth less, but the story, just by

the frame in which I see it, means that

oh my god, this thing is

It's theater. It looks like one of one.

Yeah, it's theater. And and some would

call it manipulative,

but we want things to feel

valuable. Not just be valuable.

Right? I could tell you I've got a

I I can I found a guy who makes cashmere

jerseys and he uses the exact same

cashmere as, you know, Loro Piana,

whatever, some fancy fancy ass brand.

You know? But the problem is it says

like Dave's Cashmere Shop.

You know? I could tell you everything

about where he sources the cashmere, how

he makes it, that's the same everything,

and you'd be like,

"Yeah,

Dave's Cashmere Shop?" Because you're

not buying the cashmere, you're buying

the brand. You're buying the story,

you're buying the association. That's

what's That's why brands have value.

Because it's irrational.

Yeah.

And humans are irrational. And that's

why companies invest in building brands.

For the story.

And so,

yeah, I I I think I'm

you know, as much as chat

AI scares me,

I still believe the thing that the

technologist the technologists don't

appreciate and won't appreciate, and

there there will be a rebellion.

And handmade will become more valuable

and handmade will become more expensive.

And

people will want to say that.

You know, it's like,

"You had that person write your speech

for you? You Wait, who did the painting

for you? They They did it themselves?"

You know? And I think

that's good.