in May 26th you did a famous tweet I'll

speak soon with no filter you ready to

speak 100

and

seismic news for the Premier League

football is brutal that 15 is being

rejected at Leicester 18 I got towards

got a squad number took the pictures

I'll know where the club says and I'll

look into sign you no more you have

scoliosis in your back it hasn't

affected your game Tony I'm a Tony I

don't feel like as

Ivan Tony has won his first England

caller you missed out on the final World

Cup squad do you know why the

allegations somebody's out to get me to

stop me from playing finger Ivan Tony

has been suspended for eight months with

breaching at betting rules I read the

whole fa report you acknowledge that you

lied in that meeting with the FX I

didn't lie I just couldn't really

remember you admit to 232 breaches

destroy those I didn't do vital

responsibility so the whole process

could be cleared up but the bit I to

struggle with is that using someone else

to do the best you'd said to give me I

can't have that one in my name bets for

your team to lose it's a bigger story

what impact was it having on your life

with me I never saw nothing I'm not sure

emotions that's been times I've just I'm

in a room on my own Just Looking Into

Thin Air and just

we're gonna get back to football clubs

are gonna come knocking the next Club

I'll go to if I was to move it would be

before this episode starts I have a

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[Music]

foreign

[Music]

I always believe that to understand a

person you have to understand their

earliest years I kind of see our

earliest years as the like oven that

we're formed in so if I if if you take

me back to your earliest years what do I

need to know about you to understand the

man you are today what were the

characteristics of that environment that

shaped you just out the front of where

lives like on the front is a park unlike

the older guys will just be out the

front playing and that's me at like

seven eight trying to get involved and

these guys are like 15 16 and they were

playing rough no matter if you're

eight nine ten trying to play with us

play with them they're gonna be rough so

that kind of helped me into today's game

how I am now

progressed a lot quicker and like even

when I was like 16 breaking through

Northampton I kind of had that bashing

around at a young age by the older guys

so being 16 getting Bust Around by men

let's say

I was kind of like used to it

what about hard work what was your were

you a hard-working man at that age

in terms of running and I I never liked

running I was always the lazy one at the

back of the at the back of the group

because I knew when it's time to get on

the pitch I would score goals

but like we all know

hard work beats Talent when talent

doesn't work hard so it's like kind of

like if you've got the talent and you

can work on the hard work and put them

both together then

you give yourself the best chance of

becoming

a top athlete and you and you put the

work in to improve that part of your

game and attitude

yeah I had to because there was when I

was training like when I was at

Leicester

I got told I wasn't getting a

scholarship there so then I went to I

didn't really wanna

play football as much because being

rejected at Leicester is kind of like

okay let me just chill for now but then

like my parents just like

go to go to Northampton because that was

a game that we played Northampton when I

was at Leicester and then I think the

Phantom said if anybody gets released

from them

let us know

I think Lester must have put me in touch

with Northampton and I was kind of like

I'm in an hour and about going but then

I ended up going and it was kind of like

everybody's playing for scholarship

and then it was like on the last day

everybody already knows again a

scholarship and I was the only one

that wasn't told

so everyone is in the dressing room

talking ah we've got scholarship

scholarship

and I'm there still on trial thinking

when am I getting told and it wasn't

until the next morning on the meeting

like the first meeting of all the

scholarship players joined up I got a

phone call and said

he's got a scholarship we'd like him to

come down and

I think that point was kind of like

okay I got scholarship this is my chance

now

but there was a moment there where you

were because of the rejection from

Leicester you were considering

doing something else with your life yeah

I feel like nobody likes rejection

like being rejected it's not the best

feeling

and it being like

basically you're not good enough to be

playing football how I saw it you're not

good enough to be playing football

even though it was just I'm not good

enough for Leicester I might be good

enough somewhere else somebody else

might value what my quality is a lot

more than Lester did have to see that in

the moment though yeah it's very hard

it's very hard and how old 16s was like

15 15 yeah

that's kind of like

you don't want it you don't you want

that rejection again it's like a kind of

fear of getting that again

then when I do like I said when I got

the scholarship on what's new

it wasn't happening again

because your journey through football

just generally has been a real climb

you know it's been a real real climb

like and also reflect on the fact that

most so many kids at that age 16 years

old they get they get a rejection and

they don't bounce back from it and if

they don't make it to the very top

they'll often

take that badly and pursue a different

career path but you're rejected at 16

you persevered you got into the team at

Northampton you made a good

um good impression there and then

eventually you end up at Newcastle at

what 19 18. 18 years old how was that

experience

it was crazy first time away from home

at such a young age 18 is like

and as well you thought he was a man

like from League two there was talks of

you going to a Premier League team and

like

I would never in the Northampton

changing feel like

I was a man like there was talks going

on but nothing's done until it's done

so it's kind of like actually before I

was going to Newcastle I was supposed to

go to wolves right

but I've got there I've got tools

um I've met everybody winning the change

rooms got my number on uh took the

pictures

they come to the contract side

and then I think that was a bit of

talk with my agent and the club

on certain things and then it related

back to us and I was all just confused

me my family didn't know what was going

on and then

I don't know where the club come out and

said um

we're not looking to sign you no more

due to you having scoliosis in your back

so we just think it was so confused from

getting the squad number meeting all the

players meeting all the staff and then

for them to come out and say

your scoliosis in your in your back we

wasn't we're not looking to sign you

it's kind of like

is that really the reason is there more

behind it

but then

be from having to go back to Northampton

like I've said my goodbyes at

Northampton and I'm supposed to be

concerning the Wolves then the next day

I'm back in Northampton and training

with the boys

everybody's like what's happening and

when I just sat me down and said listen

don't dwell on that I'm sure other

things will come and come into place and

I think a few weeks later new class

we're interested in

I went there scoliosis in your back what

is scoliosis and were they aware that

you had scoliosis

I thought there was aware because before

we set up to see a specialist

because they they I feel like

that wanted to know what was going on

how bad it was because I think it was

certain scoliosis it stops you from

walking at a certain age and just gets

worse and worse but

I feel like I would be busy especially

she said you'd be lucky to be walking at

28 still really yeah

and then I was just like it doesn't

really register like you think at the

time at 18 I'm thinking well I'm fine

now I'm I'm enjoying football now so

it's that really registered but being

27.

closer to 28 you kind of think well

I'm strong fit and healthy food

continuously so

what is scoliosis

where your back's not straight

It's like got a slack yeah yeah

hasn't affected your game I don't feel

like it has and you know going back to

moving to Newcastle it's like

going from League two to Premier league

is

crazy

like as soon as

since I went there I don't know fancy

you get recognized but it's not crazy

and then go into their Newcastle I'm in

the hotel

everybody's recognizing me straight away

it's like a crowd outside the hotel

waiting to see me and it's kind of like

this is what happened

so fast you're away from home as well

away from home bam a long way as well

what you what are you feeling when

Newcastle make that phone call and they

they say they're interested in you and

then you move there what does it feel

like as an 18 year old because I can

only imagine I was I was always playing

football when I was younger I was always

hoping a little bit to be a football I

knew I wasn't good enough but you know

I'm going with that whole got injured at

16.

yeah he's crazy he is crazy he

this is so exciting like

you want to tell everybody you want to

say I'm going here tomorrow yeah I'm

going here I'm going here but with me

how I am nothing's done till it's done

especially after the Wolves stuff yeah

like that was on the back of my mind so

I'm thinking right just wait until it's

all sorted then you can tell everyone

well I'm so excited I want to tell

this person that person this is

something

so yeah it was it was crazy my head was

all over the place I'm thinking

I'm actually going to the Premier League

like

I've made it I'm here

but little did I know is how far if I

made it

what happened

I feel like when you take that step you

get you get noticed more

you get more money

and just just do silly things like

like you get mixed in the wrong crowd

going out

and buying things you wouldn't normally

Buy

just a bit naive

and it's as well being away from

my family although they kept on telling

me don't do nothing silly look after

your money this and that you're gonna

think okay but they're not here to

control what I've got hold of right now

I can spend it on this I can spend on

that

like you just do things like I said

things you never normally do like we're

getting personal shoppers to come to the

house and

you don't think I'll go to the shop and

buy yourself stuff if you want to do

that so it's like these kind of things

but

yeah I think it

didn't come at me fast I wouldn't say

that I'd say just like a surprise kind

of thing like

like I said I thought I'd made it so

whatever happens I'm fine I'm in the

Premier League

what was the advice that you needed at

that point that you didn't get like if

you could go back now and have a chat

with Ivan and say listen bro you arrive

at Newcastle that day and you get a

chance just to say a couple of things to

him what'd you say I'll sit down and

have a long chat with him

it would be a long chat

no I think I'll just say like this is

where the hard work starts it's not

finished you're not you can't pull it on

cruise control you got to go to exit

gear

like yeah I'm at a Premier League club

but I haven't played yet

I've not got continuous games under my

belt to be saying okay I'm a premier

league player now

so it's like

I'd say to yeah a younger Ivan or

anybody that's in that situation go and

doing such a big jump

to say that's when the hard work starts

were you in cruise control do you think

yeah yeah if if I even was moving I'd

probably put a handbrake on really yeah

I just thought I'm Premier League now

as well you've seen all the big boys

like literally training there

it's like yeah I'm here now

and you play two games before they

loaned you out yeah come off the bench

twice against United and Chelsea and

then you went on quite a long loan spell

Barnsley Shrewsbury Wiggins gunthorpe

when you find out you're getting loaned

out how do you receive that as a player

I've always wondered this when you're a

young player in the club big you're in

the Premier League because I think

there's a lot about Manchester United as

a big fan we always low now are like

younger ads and I wonder how how that's

positioned to you as a player and how

you receive it

it's not the best feeling okay because

at the time it's kind of like I want you

know I'm here like

I'm here now you want to send me away

like yeah and you got the personal

shopper coming over exactly yeah yeah so

I need to I need to sort some things out

to me come in Shrewsbury yeah I don't

think you'll travel that far

But now y'all I feel like like it's at

that age you don't really think

what you're gonna learn for

I mean first team experience is

this is probably the best at that age as

well and like knowing that because I

feel like I just specter

Houston football is cool

like tick attacker pretty football then

go into

League one like I said on loan

you're gonna get bashed around so you

need to be ready for that

physical battle

and I feel like going online definitely

help me looking back now it helped me a

lot but at the time I was thinking I

don't need to go and learn I'm ready to

be

playing in the Premier League I feel

like from Young I've always had that

that my dad always told me no matter

where you are if you have that mentality

that you're a premier league player but

at the moment you're just on League one

that's fine but if you don't have that

mentality that

I'm a premier league player so I don't

need to try here then

it's not going to work out so it doesn't

matter where you are if you have the

mentality I should be playing in the

Prem but right now I'm playing here

that's fine

and I feel like you you go you go

a Long Way to the where I am now um

I'm feeling playing

that bit of device

that my dad gave me was

very key when you went off on loan and

they say okay you're leaving Newcastle

now does that take you out of cruise

control and into like I've got something

to prove again it should it should have

it did but it didn't really because I

always believed that no matter what

happened where I went I'm going back to

Newcastle

so no matter if I played didn't play at

all or played rubbish I'm going back to

Newcastle back to the Premier League but

not knowing the effects that could have

well it did have in the end

even though

I think all the clubs I went to about

one

hour I left goal scorer

but

it was like

I could have looking back I feel like I

could have went that

extra step further

yeah

scunthorpe united six girls and 15

appearances

showed a huge promise while you're on

your loan spells as a prolific goal

scorer and then at 22 years old you

transferred to Peterborough United

after failing to secure a regular place

at Newcastle now that

that must have

been an interesting moment because

that's kind of like another knock back

in it goes back to like Lester the

Leicester rejection and stuff that's

like another

step down you've made it to the Prem and

now you've got

to take a step down

yeah it was a must not actually not I

wouldn't say a massive not not back it

was a knockback but it was kind of like

maybe a not back I needed at the time

because like I remember sitting down

with my dad and my agent at the time and

saying listen

like me me and my dad are brutal whoever

we work with we want not we want the

honest honest truth no matter if they

say

we don't want him he's not good enough

for us I'd rather my agent tell me that

but how the relationship was that the

agent with my agent at the time

it kind of sugarcoat things right so

meanwhile that kind of had to get out of

him what did the club say like just tell

us be honest and his words were the club

don't think you're good enough already

at the time at this moment in time

so it's kind of like in my head it's

like okay fine no problem it's time for

me to go elsewhere

then regroup restart it wasn't like I

was too old it was just it was just uh

not back and set back that like I said

at the time probably needed to

kick start my journey again do you think

Newcastle were right in saying that

um possibly like don't get me wrong you

go to a great Club they had some they've

had some great players in doing very

well at the moment but I feel like

I didn't really have

a chance in the first team

to prove if I was good good enough

I feel personally anyway I know too far

at the time was

when Newcastle were fighting to stay

stay up

in the Premier League when Rafa Benitez

first come in oh yeah

so it's kind of understandable you

wanted

these players uh

try and keep them up

we wanted to experience and stuff more

than like to be given youth younger

players a chance and stuff is that what

you're saying yeah I feel like I mean

you can't really put so much

responsibility on you players or young

players to keep you up in the Premier

League it's such a big ask but

I feel like maybe The Following Season

it was kind of like

could he get a Sniff and I think he kind

of was it is his own players in them and

done his own own thing which is that's

football

so if you go to Peterborough

um you're close to your family at this

point yeah yeah oh Mommy's boy at Art so

I leave my mum around close and did it

change your attitude moving to

Peterborough unlike this whole cruise

control thing

yeah he did and especially when I went

to first went to Peterborough

I wasn't playing at the first

I'd say 10 games

the strikers out in front of me it was

scoring every game

assistant playing well

but the manager at the time Steve Evans

was just saying

the warrior trance will come and when

your chance comes it's up to you to take

it

a new trance came yeah and then took it

uh yeah 100 took it he scored 24 goals

in 32 League One games at Peterborough

which is insane yeah yeah like well like

the competitions all over the field but

especially as as a striker you need to

you drop the school goals and especially

when the other two scoring goes if you

get a one Sniff and you don't score

you'll back out again and it gives him

another opportunity

the director of football at Peterborough

said you were an incredibly hard worker

he also said you were their best

defender because you headed away nine

out of ten Corners

I feel like yeah them games I kind of

had a magnet on my head that was just

bringing the vote towards me but yeah

now I think

the hard work as well like when I'm

loved by a manager I feel like I'm a

club I feel like

it's in me to want to give back I want

to do a lot of things

for like run for a brick wall four the

manager that's wanted me in this

position did they become like proxy

father figures to you in that regard

because you're clearly a man that's

close to your father did they kind of

you see what I'm saying is that is it a

similar relationship like uh where you

want to do them proud

when I first signed a piece with Steve

Evans like the first time you spoke to

me

he was just it was like a friend like a

normal chat even though you got the

respect as a manager but he was saying

listen I want you to come in school

girls

and go go go how like the goal just go

for us benefits you and us because we're

going to go higher and you're going to

go out so it's a win-win

and I think

him putting an arm around me at that

time knowing

I've come from a Premier League club

and saying it's not really not back

this is where you kicks out your journey

again

having that I think definitely helped me

and didn't you have I read somewhere

that you had a agreement with them like

a verbal agreement that if a bigger Club

came knocking they wouldn't stand in

your way Peterborough

that probably was a verbal agreement but

if anybody knows the fee of a fever

staff and the owners and therefore we

have different ideas but I mean yeah I

guess when I did go that was the right

timing like

every every player thinks when there's a

move on the cars you want to try and

rush it through and

if things aren't right they're not right

for a reason like you can't rush good

things good things aren't rust

I think at the time that was a chance I

could have went to somewhere I try and

rush it through and it was like don't

worry oh really so there was office from

other clubs there was office from other

clubs yeah but big clubs

um biggest at a time okay Championship

clubs yeah Championship clubs and he was

saying

just just be patient you're gonna get a

better club and I'm just there like not

kick him out I'm not throwing my toys

out of the problem just be like wow it's

just a chance to move now

who used to know what can happen blah

blah and then I ended up staying in

and I went to Brentford which was

probably the best

choice in the end and around this time I

mean just before then 21 years old you

become a father for the first time yeah

I mean that's that's as well what

helps me Kickstart My Journeys as well

because I feel like

I've got people to provide for

um I have expensive taste as well so

it's either choosing my expensive taste

for my family so

if I could school goals and help both

then it's perfect so I think that's what

helped me pick things up and

I had to provide for people

does that Focus you because I'm not a

dad yet but it's around the corner for

me I'm sure

um does that Focus your priorities in a

sense like does it make because I speak

to my mates who have always had kids and

they almost described that moment when

their baby first comes they kind of see

the world differently and they're like

responsibilities differently and stuff

100 100 like you can't do the things you

normally do

you have to think baby first in all

aspects did it make your game better 100

yeah yeah 100 definitely how

it's in like I want to make him proud so

when he's older that's my dad he's done

this he's doing this this is this so

it's kind of like a pride thing as well

as wanting to do well

for my family and

have a better better lifestyle for

everybody not just me and my people

provide for when did you find out that

Brentford are interested

it was actually training at St George's

Park yeah uh with Peterborough

and there's talks of

going here there and I was kind of like

I'm gonna know him just like yeah when

it's when it's something concrete then

let me know right now I just want to

focus on training hard

because it's easy to if you let us stray

when this club's interested in you this

club's interesting you hear loads of

things

but then nothing's concrete like this is

all well and good he's looking at you

he's looking at you but this time I'm

not a kid no more when they want me and

put a bidding then we can start talking

was

hearing they're interested what does

that mean that doesn't mean nothing like

everybody can be interested but nobody

wants you yeah yeah so when

Brentford come along and I was I was

interested and actually put a bid in

that's great it's like okay

I spoke to the manager he kind of

it was straightforward and said you're

gonna come in and be the main man

we want you to be starting every game

and

school goals and

do your job then

either take us up or go to a go to a

higher Club

so you get that call from Brentford they

put a bid in you speak to the manager

Thomas Frank yes and Thomas says listen

you're going to be on number one

I think it was a no-brainer I think I

did speak to other clubs

um

actually I went into Rangers oh nice

spoke with uh the manager there which is

Steven Gerard at the time

and Manchester United did you speak to

yeah they said I wasn't good enough

yeah

I went to I went to um went to Rangers

we spoke a bit but then they said I was

like

twos of those two strikes at the time

and then I was looking to get another

one in so it would have been like four

strikes I think and I think the

formation they played majority of the

time one strike at top so you would have

been like third choice or something yeah

something like this

but and then uh we went to Celtic we

spoke to Celtic and I think it was like

the same there I'm one of three strikes

or something like this

and I think

at the time of when it was I was moving

I wanted to be like the main guy like I

think the crucial thing for me is

playing games

even though I backed myself on competing

with other Strikers but I honestly know

that when I go in what first first

through the door on the main man up

front and it's up to me to keep my

position I feel like when I went to uh

when I spoke to the manager at Brentford

he pretty much

said you're the main guy and I don't see

nobody

taking your spot

so you make sure you produce produce the

goods and it feels really

you you've worked a lot of clubs

um you've played a lot of different

clubs brunfield are special they're

really really special because they are

based on their resources they are

objectively over achieving

in a really really significant way

um

what is it about Brentford from your

experience that is make what is that

magic that they have

hard work plain and simple hard work

like we're not the best

technically gifted team we have some

magicians in the team but other than

that it's just hard work

I mean

and we fear nobody we respect them we

don't fear them

so when we go to the let's say I'm

filled away

or Chelsea aware of these kind of games

we know they're probably on paper better

than us got some big names and this and

that but

if at the end of the day the main thing

that wins the games is

hard work and a little bit of quality I

guess putting the hole in the back of

the net

and I feel like

throughout the

throughout the club everybody knows what

the manager wants

you have to you have to you have to be

willing to run for your teammate plus

your left first your right and the fans

and everybody and everybody knows the

responsibility they have

on their shoulders when they step onto

the pitch

so I think that's that's probably what's

brought us to where

and how well we're doing at the moment

and even like at the moment the team

playing without me I hear and people say

oh drinking breakfast we're going to be

like this now you're not playing this

and that I don't think in no they're not

gonna struggle because

they work hard and when you work hard

you give yourself the best chance

of winning the game

and I I know deep down Brentford would

be fine with or without me

well you've played a lot of clubs right

so you can kind of compare and contrast

is there anything else other than just

that work ethic that you've noticed is

just different at Brentford

so you've got super hard work is there

anything else their approach to things

or the strategy or the way that they I

feel like they're to govern this as well

how everybody's like everybody talk to

everyone I've been at clubs where it's

like

a certain groups it there certain groups

that they're like everybody's divided

it's like but it's not that rental

everybody

makes it to everybody how you got people

of Spanish Danish which is majority of

the club at the moment

um English and everything and everybody

just mix it together so it's not like

oh let me where my friends where should

I sit down at lunch you just get your

lunch sit down here you talk with

forever and the manager

that comes from him I feel like he makes

sure that togetherness and humbleness

like there's no

nobody at the club thinks

they're better than nobody like even

last season I scored 20 goals I was I

wasn't about nobody

I Was the Same

the person that doesn't really play too

much

they're not less of a person than me

we're all the same we'll

in it together

so I feel like that comes from the

manager and his philosophy at the club

and how he wants things to be run what

are the things that you often think with

managers and CEOs and stuff like there's

they have their like core principles

which you just get bored of hearing

because they say over and over and over

and over again what are those things

that he just repeats over and over and

over again togetherness yeah humble yeah

an attitude

and I guess he polices that pretty yeah

all the time it's all over the club it's

all in the meetings

which is probably why like I said

we do we're doing so well

as a club and as a whole whole unit

what's the what's the dressing room the

training ground dressing room culture

like

I can ask this because I've spoken to so

many players at United in particular and

especially in the Fergie areas they

always talk about the like the

self-policing culture in the dressing

room

you know like what's that like

versus other clubs yeah it's like like I

said it's yeah it's good there's other

clubs I've been at has it's been good as

well but not

how it is in Brentford I feel like

Brentford is probably one of the best

dressings I've been in in terms of

everybody knows that drill everybody

knows that position everybody's helping

others like everybody's just like the

respect if something's on the floor tidy

pick up pull in there

like

them kind of things is key if you want

to be

achieving something big and I feel like

with that

in the change room as well as in the gym

or in the in the dinner

is key and everybody's up for everybody

it was it's like one big family unit

26 years old you're named brentford's

player of the season

um

you scored 12 goals in the First Premier

League season and then you scored 20

goals in your second Premier League

season finishing third in the golden

beat rankings behind Harland and Harry

Kane

that's big yeah

it is big is Big but sometimes I don't

really

realize how big it is

because sometimes I'm at home I'm

thinking

yeah well not first in my head if you're

not first you're lost

then let my family say but look who

you're behind and look at the caliber

players that are playing in the Premier

League and you scored more than these

guys

I'm always thinking yeah but I could

have scored more and you think it's

called more than Holland

I mean not

more but I look back on chances that

should have been a goal and I feel like

there probably is like 15 15 16 chances

that I probably could have scored or

should have scored

so if I was as clinical as Ireland was

not to say I'll beat him but I could be

a lot higher than a lot higher than 20.

England

's football team

I saw I think I saw a post on your

Instagram a couple of weeks ago about

that being a huge dream for you

to play for England yeah

I think

everybody wants to pay for England yeah

I remember just screaming like

Gerard's name and the lampard's name

like when I'm on the field just kicking

and they said when that

opportunity was around and I was in

talks of it

just didn't it didn't feel real

from being

Ivan from the fountain just playing out

the front getting bashed around by the

old a lot too actually having a chance

to play for England was

something I would never have jumped off

you missed out on the final World Cup

squad

um lots of circulating rumors about why

do you know why

um

I guess

I guess it comes down to

allegations

on the Ben scandal

but I feel like

personally I felt like it was a bit of a

questionable time when they decided to

bring it all out and then when they

actually dealt with the situation come

the end of the season is kind of like

why'd you bring out then

to

and then punish me

at the end of the season

so they brought so I guess you're saying

that you suspect they brought it out at

that time to prevent you going to play

for England I assume so I'm to make it a

bigger story ah okay

personally anyway I don't know if it's

true that how not to know what's

behind the scenes but I feel like if you

have somebody go into the World Cup

that's

supposed to be betting then it's kind of

like

a bigger story

what's the real I'm not really clued up

on this or how fa thinks the fa

the England team

play Under the fa

yeah and the fa are also the sort of

body that brought the charges against

you yeah so they

so one might assume that they release

the charges at that point because if

they didn't then there might be some

ramifications on the England team or the

perceptions of England team or something

yeah I assume so right like I'm not too

aware of all this stuff but

I feel like it was a bit of a

coincidence when they desire to bring it

all out and then

having to be dealt with the punishment

at the end of the season

so far after it's kind of like

I mean you know well I feel like yes I'm

banned now but

the biggest punishment for me was

missing out on playing at the World Cup

personally

I felt more hurt and

what's the word kind of like

yeah I just I just felt I felt down

around the time

it felt like

somebody's out to get me at that time to

stop me from playing for England it was

in my head like that's just how I seen

it at the time it's like

they want to punish me for this

missing out on England

the World Cup like everybody's dream to

be playing at the World Cup

and then further down the line

ban me as well

it's kind of like

a double hit I feel

in a sense was like I said

if he was going to do if he's gonna stop

me from going to World Cup do it there

and then and deal with it deal with the

whole situation

rather than doing that missing out on

the World Cup and then let me play the

rest of the season

and then binding me off to the season

is it is not enough in my head to be

fair anyway

I felt down about it what does that mean

in real terms if I was a flyer on the

wall in your life when when that

information came in that was probably my

excuse me that was probably that the

lowest point

I was like with me I'll never show

nothing I'm not sure emotion too tough

but I think that was probably the

lowest point I felt

like you'd ask me about uh

yeah he's always

but that is what it is it's kind of like

I don't want to talk about it yeah damn

it hurt it did hurt

do you cry

no I don't feel like crying solves

anything

personally that's my personal views

everybody says

to we need to show emotion you can cry

isn't this it's okay but like

I feel like I've only acquired once when

I see

my Nancy

from losing my pap

and seeing her her as much as she was

killed me inside

and it was kind of like I didn't cry cry

but it was like tears in my eyes coming

down and it's kind of like

it was painful

do you express your how you're feeling

to anyone in your life at that point to

your partner to your family your mum

your dad when you when you find out that

you're not going to play for England and

they've you know the rumors are out

about this gambling situation do you

tell anyone how you're actually feeling

um no but people that know me know

my actions

and how that leads to how I'm feeling

like I'd be a lot more like Snappy about

things

or I'll just be like

I can just be like a zombie talking to

me and it's not like really registering

but

my head's not really in the room kind of

thing

and that people that know me know

like

something's up something's wrong what

was the reality of the situation what

was going on inside your head

and how was it when you say down and you

say that was the lowest point how what

does that mean in real terms

um

I wouldn't say depressed as such

but it's kind of like

not far off that

if anything towards that direction but

not

completely

because like that's still how I stay in

my head it's like

next opportunity next next day another

day is another day to

put things right and try and be as

positive as I can

have you ever had anxiety

probably but

how I am I don't let it

get to me as much

like I'd say

the loan spells when when I'm on loan

I'm in a room on my own there's been

times I've just literally sat there and

about the TV on just just sat there I'm

just like

chilling and just looking to thin air

and just

thinking about things

but I've never

actually I'd never like let nobody know

how I'm feeling because how I am as a

person

I feel like it it eats away at me but

I'm just always a smiley one

always like I asked people at Brent for

now on the Drake I'm making sure

everyone's fine these kind of things

I think that's my kind of way of

beating my

emotions

um if I see this person happy for me

doing that then it kind of brings me up

to make me happy kind of thing

did you did you not speak to anyone like

a professional about about this stuff

because I always think when we bottle up

our emotions it's not like they go away

it's like almost like they they eat us

up from inside and they they come out in

other ways like you were saying

snappiness or whatever or

you know

surely there's someone around you that

said you need to see someone yeah that's

yeah there was but as well me being

stubborn is kind of like nah I'm fine

it's fine like I'll be right next

tomorrow I'll be right later I'll be

right next week

I feel like I can speak to anyone in my

family but like my stomach is just don't

allow me to

I think a lot of men can relate to that

you know yeah 100 I feel like

that

personally

in May 20 26th uh you did a famous tweet

do you know that's what I'm talking

about yeah I'll speak soon with no

filter

you ready to speak

um

what did that tweet mean

that was just speak on everything really

but obviously when I've done that they

went crazy and then

I think my family just said listen you

don't need to talk

just

when you get on a pitch

that if you do the talking

but what's up damage is done you can't

talk and

it's not gonna help no situation if

anything could not damage my reputation

or my career but

just make people think

not that I care what people think is

just could put in the words that who do

you think he is that kind of thing but

it doesn't benefit no parties what

headspace were you and when you tweeted

that probably a reckless one really yeah

how are you feeling

thinking

I don't care attitude

I'd say

kind of a defense mechanism against

pretty much yeah against everybody

like even like little things like

for the whole situation not not like my

friends my friends my friends the one I

sit with better people I chill with all

the time but it's even that one that

goes

I don't know if it's just me thinking

side of things but it's like when I go

certain places like maybe some people

don't want to be associated with me in a

certain way of

obviously because the media kind of

thing and it's kind of like

not killing that image but it's kind of

like you're doing this guy he's a match

fixer his match fixing football the the

I'm not even like I remember at the time

when there was allegations

I wanted to go to a restaurant and I was

like

no you can't uh we're not taking you

the restaurant a restaurant I was like

what do you mean

that's ours because the allegations

we're not allowing you in or something

like this

I was actually so confused

I was thinking for starters it's

allegations

and secondly your restaurant how can you

not let somebody introduce a bad press

That's Why They Call It Bad press

I was just baffled and even to like

my car insurance

they wouldn't insult me due to

the whole scandal

I was just like a car insurance they

don't want me on their books because

which was baffling

I read through the the whole

um fa report many many pages I think it

was like 25 2500 pages I have it here

just to understand the case better just

so I made sure I didn't make any errors

in my observations but there's no I

think there's actually a line in there

where the commissions say they

um didn't believe you were doing any

match fixing

it was far from match fixing yeah I

wrote that down in my in my notes that

um

They concluded that you hadn't been

match fixing or anything like that in

the report

um so that that allegation from whoever

said that the restaurant or whatever

um doesn't seem to have a basis in the

report at all I'm sure there was certain

articles on saying match fixing as well

which is that's probably the media for

you making it a big

talking point

when the fa first Contact you and

and they ask they make a request for

information don't they so they want to

know more information this is dating

back to 2022 I believe

when you get that first Contact

how does that feel like your dad or your

agent must have told you that the fa

have been in touch well they wanted

information from as far back as 2015.

so it's kind of like

well I haven't got that uh

I had back then to give you information

but I wanted to cooperate how I can to

let you investigate what you want to

investigate

and when I was when I the club actually

pulled me into a room and they spoke to

me and said they're faving in touch with

you match fixing this and that

they want to speak to you and I said

okay this is Brentford yeah that's okay

no problem like

then he is that have you done any bits

whilst whilst you've been at Brentford

and have you been betting on football

and I was like no I haven't I haven't

done no

bets are fixing fixing football match

fixing football like he's like okay well

therefore I want to speak to you

don't delete nothing on your phone

because there's a system like they said

they can get like old messages or

whatever they said I said no problem I'm

not I'm not doing nothing

if they can go through what they want to

go through

and then they called you in for an

interview in May 2022. yeah and they ask

you all these questions again about what

you've been involved in

with betting Etc yeah and they asked me

certain things happen like I said

seven eight years ago

onto the top of my head

so much information in front of me at

one time

it's kind of like as you can't remember

I can't remember and there's

I think I was in there for like what

five hours

five hours yeah

but at that time you you maintained to

them that you're not betting on football

yeah and I was I wasn't aware what what

that was what I was trying to get

you acknowledged later on that you you

basically lied in that meeting with the

fa I didn't lie I just couldn't really

remember what what they was asking for

at the time I couldn't remember until

they brought certain things in front of

me and it was kind of like okay he's

talking about my memory and we

like I said I cooperate with everything

they wanted to do and we kind of

spoke on it and then I told him the

truth about everything one of the things

people might find surprising is they

they asked for your they asked for your

mobile phones and stuff and then they

like image your mobile phones to check

like all the messages you've sent to

people

going back a long time on the on these

phones to find out everything you've

been said and also as you said they they

ask you not to delete any messages which

you didn't from from what the commission

said

um

but how does that feel when the fa asks

for your mobile phone and they you know

they're going to scan it

for everything it doesn't feel yeah it's

just kind of like

it's your privacy and they're like

invading it it's kind of like

I've got certain pitch on there I won't

want them to see like these kind of

things so it's

pretty much like you have to go with

what they're saying otherwise I feel

like I think you get a longer band for

not cooperating or something like this

so what what can I do yes you want to

take my phone take my phone and all your

bank statements as well they also your

bank statements which you handed over as

well yeah

um

you hand it over I believe multiple

phones no just one phone oh just the one

yeah I thought there was a there was

some they said that was another phone

but that wasn't that much fun I had that

as well and then eventually you admit to

232 breaches of their rules and their

favorite E8

um

which is betting over five seasons from

25th of February 2017 debating up until

January 21.

yes and

like I said there was people saying I

was match fixing but none of it was

match fixing it was just like I said

before I was betting myself to school

first

from

I think this was a while back

and it's kind of like that's not

like I'm not trying to not try and I'm

still trying to do the right thing it's

not like I'm

smashing someone and getting a yellow

card here then everywhere

yeah and the report actually does say

that it says that you weren't you

weren't this the commission said that

you weren't match fixing which is a

completely different completely

different thing yeah they're making bets

on like games that you're either you're

playing in on yourself to school all

betting on the team when you're not in

the team which is what from what I read

which is what what happened gambling and

generally when did that start in your

life when did you start first gambling

um I think it's just kind of like as

you're young it's like a little flutter

they call it like you're in like the

fair arcade kind of thing just

trying to win a little change or

something or these kind of things so I'd

say like

around 15

or 15 and such

and it and it got progressively worse

yeah I'd say the more money you get the

more

the higher the seats go

that's kind of like

oh if I lose this it's fine this is

coming next month

was did you not realize you know

throughout those sort of five years when

you were betting a lot 232 breaches that

your relationship with betting was

unhealthy I think on the on the 200 and

was it for 82 breaches like that was

there was some bets in there that

ladder record making that that but I was

willing to take responsibility just to

get the process

all over and done with because having

that hovering over me and trying to

concentrate my career is not is not the

best feeling far from the best feeling

and then Adam I've done well to finish

on

20 goals if that hanging over me but

in terms of

thinking do you have a problem it's kind

of like you don't think of

if I lose this this is gonna happen

so it's like oh once I won this this

this and this can happen

you never think of the negatives you'd

always think of the positives

and being on the money I was on

which affords a lot of time and it's

kind of like

it's fine I'll get there in the back end

of the month

oh that's coming back this and this

month oh he owes me this it's fine

what impact was it having on your life

betting

um

I feel like

it was just the impact it would have it

was just waiting for payday right that

might happen through the month she

weren't prepared it

but you could spend your wage and then

wait for payday spend your wage wait for

payday yeah well I'd pay and sort

everything I need to pay for first and

then it's like I got this play with do

that it's fine

but it'll come soon

so it wasn't it wasn't like

spend this money I should be giving here

or paying on this you took care of your

I took care of what needed to be careful

and

my head is kind of like my money is my

money for I couldn't spend it how I

wanna and

yeah pretty much pretty much like that

I've made my money

it's up to me I want to spend it

one of the one of the things that was

quite surprising is bets against bets

for your team to lose when you weren't

playing in the team

the you you must you knew bedding was

wrong right like you knew that as a

footballer you weren't allowed to bet

my knowledge of

not my knowledge of betting on football

though I don't think I recall once

somebody coming and just giving

a talk on their experience but not you

can't bet on football

so it wasn't like I shouldn't be better

than this shouldn't be bad on that and I

feel like I think the best that on my

team to lose when I'm not playing I

think a few of the majority of those

were

within the bets that I know

about a person I think I didn't didn't

do but I still took responsibility

of them for them so the whole process

could

get cleared up and you um you don't know

about some of these bets you're saying

because you did them through somebody

else yeah because and you did them

through somebody else because you you

knew you weren't allowed to right it

wasn't through that I didn't knew I

wasn't allowed to is that I didn't see

what I didn't want my parents seeing

while I'm doing my money

this was a point of contention in the

documents the fa said you know he's

betting through somebody because he

didn't want he didn't want the fa to

find out you're saying you you bet

through somebody else because your

parents the male was going to the house

and you didn't want them opening up the

post and seeing it yeah that's right

essentially

that was a point I mean the commission

go go their own way on that

um and then okay so moving on from that

there's there's all these aggravating

factors in the in the document

um was he aware of the rules I think you

eventually admitted that you were aware

of the rules in terms of not being able

to bet on football

um

going back to the days I think at

Northampton I think was it Northampton

um one of your previous chat I think

your previous chairman at the football

club was thrown out because of a betting

Scandal and then you have a relative in

your life that was also

issued with a breach of the fa rules for

betting in 2007 as well so they can

commission concluded that you were aware

of the rules and that you couldn't bet

but you sort of counteract that by

saying you didn't have I think it was it

was kind of a gray area right but I

think there was a time where

like I said the the clubs I've been at

they were like beginning of every season

though I feel like they'd have somebody

come in but not actually tell you what

you can and what you can't bet on what

would that person say just like this is

its experiences on betting like he'd

come in and say this is uh and then I've

lost this much I've gone through this so

when if you think about Ben don't do it

so it wasn't like you can't be banned on

football or you can't be betting on yeah

you can't be better on football it was

just his experiences of going through a

gambling stage

because uh so so you didn't know you

could you couldn't bet as a player no I

think it was a gray area something like

you'd hear you can you hit it you can't

and then there's certain things you say

you can't bet on like

I feel like it was a gray area

and you admitted in the second

aggravating factors about knowing

knowing whether you basically missing to

whether you were betting or not and in

the interview with the commission during

the process you said that you had lied

early on by saying I don't vote on

football in an earlier interview

um but you know that was one of the

first interviews you had and you had

responded I didn't burn football and

yeah that that wasn't accurate yeah that

was when obviously they threw everything

got me I thought if I was just deny it

then it's it's all fine I wouldn't find

nothing but then

went through and then

yeah I'd meet uh

I'm admitted to what Adam

in the fa the fourth average rate in

fact was whether the player sought to

conceal his identity when he set up his

own betting account 2017 the commission

um didn't accept the fa submission there

they didn't they didn't believe that

you'd concealed it in that regard

um whether the player deleted messages

issue number five commission concluded

that there wasn't evidence that you

deleted any messages

they they I was accused of dilemma's

yeah that's right yeah by the fa but the

commission said that they didn't have

substantial evidence for that yeah

um kind of just I was told not to and

you didn't delete nothing from the club

the commission couldn't find any

evidence that you had deleted anything

so

um and then the phone issue we've talked

about already the last issue was around

whether you had a gambling addiction and

they brought out a psychologist called

Dr Philip hopley who looked you did

interviews with you

um he's a highly qualified and

experienced psychiatric expert according

to the commission and he interviewed you

on two occasions and he formed a clear

opinion that you had a gambling

addiction

and accordingly the commission accepted

the findings of the doctor on this issue

and that's part of the reason that you

were given a more lenient sentence

um because Dr hopley said that you had

an impulsive uh compulsive disorder

yeah was that the first time you'd heard

of gambling addiction

yeah through this process this tribunal

yeah because I feel like

it wouldn't be in me to bring myself

forward to

speak to one of these people

to see if I did have one

so it's kind of like like I said my

stubbornness comes comes into play on

this one it's kind of like

no fine I can stop when I want to stop

did he expect someone explain to you a

gambling addiction is since then

a little bit yeah we did speak with us

how to play on on around around one

addiction is but

it's kind of like

you don't allow

yourself to believe it

like I feel like it's gonna stop doing

something I feel like people think in

the head I can stop with one but not not

knowing

deep down you probably can't could you

have stopped

probably

yeah it's it's I feel like it's

50 50. you could have stopped but I feel

like a thrill on it is kind of like

what keeps you going

because the fa though sort of

counterpointed that was that there was

periods where you you didn't you didn't

gamble so they would they were saying

that to the commission that you know

it's not gambling addiction because

there's parts of his journey where he's

not gambling or he's betting on other

things for example

um

do you still gamble now

no anything no any betting at all across

any not

has that required therapy or any sort of

professional support I think it's kind

of

being in the public eye if I was

to be like going into these places and

these kind of things

I think it's more the embarrassment

those eyes still continue

this kind of thing

so I I wouldn't allow myself and

like you look back you I feel like he's

sit take a back seat and look up

all the money you've lost and what you

could have went on and what and

especially now having people to provide

for it's kind of like

you can't be spending that money on this

it can go to to here or

like just manage your money bro our luck

of things and how I look at me off I see

that as

being naive

we don't really get much information do

we uh growing up about gambling

well really it had it like how to spend

our money or tax especially I think

about you guys as like young you know 20

year olds that I just you know playing

football and then you become

millionaires because you're good at it

it's kind of different for like my

Pursuit because like building a business

you have to see a focus your Finance

people around you you have controls

budgets forecasts P L's all this stuff

so you know you're surrounded by like

money minds and brains around you when

you're building a business but being a

young 20 year old millionaire who I'm

presuming nobody gave you Financial

education

no it's kind of like you said yeah being

having that much money at tender age

it's kind of like

what do I do with it

and

I'm not a family that comes from money

so it's not like my parents could

help me a lot with that but they they

would have their say on certain things

but it's like

you kind of have to

try and just manage it yourself

and just

assume doing this is the right thing

you don't know what you don't know

pretty much

the bit of this case that I that I was I

was I found difficult is that using

someone else to do the best because for

me that's that points to like in that he

did know I think that's what people

would think they'd look at that again of

course 100 conceal it because I'm

thinking your mom your mom and dad ain't

opened your post at 27 years old like my

mum ain't gonna open my post no this was

it was when I was away

yeah so I know my post did go to my

parents and I feel like of course your

parents want to be

knowing what's going on if you're

getting this letter through that's

you're not paying this or

like like I said seeing what you're

spending your money on and I feel like

because we're a tight family my mom

would worry about that

and there was actually times where she's

opened it and she's kind of said certain

things about it

and the fa had highlighted text message

you'd sent me you said to give me I

can't have that one in my name

what was the app I gambled on on your

phone this time from text messages that

they'd found that's the bit that I

struggled with was I was like I wasn't

sure that but this chapter of your life

has clearly been

a big learning moment 100 I feel like

looking back on

what I've done what I changed some bits

probably but

is what it is and the man I'm now

continuing forward is kind of but it's

different to what I was before do you

take like when we think about

responsibility for our actions what's

what what responsibility do you take for

all of this where you say listen

this is this is what I take

responsibility for here

um and this is also like

going back to a question I asked earlier

about like what do you wish someone had

had said you

when you first did that I don't know

those those bets five five six seven

years ago

um what's the responsibility you take

and what's the what's the lesson you've

taken from this process I think the

responsibility I'd take was yeah I was

betting on myself to the school first

which

now you I know you shouldn't be doing

which I take responsibility and I'll

take

full responsibility for the punishment

I'm getting now so uh it was it would be

kind of a lack

and why I tell my younger self around

them kind of times it's like

manage your money but don't get mixed in

there wrong crowd I say and just just

don't follow fashion

of your own of your own mindset uh mind

frame on

what you should and should be doing or

if you don't know look more into it and

if that's what you really want to do

look more into it and what you can and

can and can't do

it's interesting because when they were

deliberating your your punishment one of

the things that came to mind is

perception and what it would the

perception it would send to the rest of

the the game

um

do you think they they made an example

of you

I feel so yeah

do you think that's right

I can't I don't think it's right now but

because you're a high profile Premier

League player obviously if if you get

away with doing something like this this

could other players lower levels could

also emulate it so they've got an

opportunity here to send a message 100

100 and I feel like a lot of people

think that in terms of

if no disrespects are lower leagues but

if I was well actually we actually did

look at some cases that was somewhat

similar someone worse

and their punishment wasn't

like how mine is

I think the fact that's the opportunity

the fact that I'm playing in the Premier

League doing well

snifferon England

kind of like right it's our chance to

punish him then people know this is kind

of

the punishment you're looking at if you

want to do

why don't it's funny because I was

actually surprised to read that in the

the

um the analysis section of this document

where it says the perception of the

impact of football betting on the

Integrity of the game is key a key

consideration when deciding on your

sanction

which does kind of suggest that they're

quite intentional in making sure that

they make an example of you

um thereabouts in their words

um and obviously you have a huge

position of influence so that's that's

key

um

and then they submit that the FAS

suggested that you get 12 months ban as

a suspension I believe and that was

their final sanction the commission

didn't accept that

um ordinarily the commission would have

imposed 50 15 months suspension had you

not pled guilty to the charges which

lowered your sanction and then also

you've got another

um reduction in the sanction because of

the findings from the Doctor Who found

that you had a gambling addiction which

brought your sentence down to eight

months

um and you'll find fifty thousand pounds

it's interesting because you know I'm a

huge football fan so I want to see you

play and I you're on such a role

Brentford are on such a role so like as

a football fan although you smashed

United last year like it was so it's so

good to see like a young black English

striker tearing up the game at his Peak

it's getting to see you out of the game

it is

and I feel like like how I am a lot of

people know how I stay this is this is

nothing I I know for a fact I'll come

back stronger than this I'm better than

I was before like this is gives me the

hunger against uh recharge and come back

on on another another level like like I

said before earlier

no time to dwell on things no time to

dwell on things and it's like

just when that first game comes and I

can play then

it's not a ball game

it's on

when you found out you you suspended for

eight months

how did that feel what's that like

um because you know you're in the peak

of your powers right now right yeah I

know it's it's painful but

I feel like the hard part isn't kind of

not

because right now I'll be playing

football matches and I kind of be around

the players and not the football ground

and things like this and it's kind of

like

okay that's what you want to do punish

me from there but

I thought I'd keep me away from the

ground if I wasn't as strong as I was

in my head that would break some people

and then we talk about mental health and

all these kind of things and what's that

kind of doing to

a player that's not allowed in the

environment even though you can't play

games but keeping away from the training

ground

knowing football's their life and that's

all they've done from such a young age

how is that going to help them

at all

yeah this is I completely agree with you

I think I think the sanction itself is

important because it does send a message

and I agree with that but the bit that I

just struggle with is the can't train at

the club and we know as you you point

out there like

mental health keeping active is such an

important thing especially if you've

been playing football since you're a kid

and it's your purpose it's what you know

um so psychologically and physically

there's a a real strong case to keep

your keep you active and I've seen a lot

of people have their say on this a lot

of people think you know you could have

trained at the ground and then use that

time to educate young players on on

gambling that would have been useful but

to keep you out of the club not allow

you to train and to kind of push you out

on your own it seems doesn't feel like

it's smart it doesn't it doesn't add up

with what

the things they push forward like

like we say the old football Community

is on big on Mental Health then the fa

go and do this and like

push me away from like my the whole

football environment like by all means

it's not

a place where I want people to feel

sorry for me like that's the last thing

that's the last thing I want and me as a

person people that know me with no

that's not what one thing I'm trying to

achieve but so that says what if

somebody that's not as strong as me in

their head

happens to be going through this kind of

situation and that punishment is not

allowed at the training ground

like that would break them like right

now I've been not been around a training

ground it does hurt me but I just know

when I'm at the training ground train

harder be ready for the the game when I

can play

but it's

yeah it's like I said it's not a nice

feeling and the whole purpose of

not being allowed at the training ground