It is of paramount importance that I

find separation between me and the

persona of Steve O.

Why

we have to go back to the beginning of

my journey. I didn't get attention from

my parents. My dad was a businessman and

my mom suffered from alcoholism.

Your father would praise you for stunts

diving head first

and he'd give $1. I don't think you have

to be Sigman Freud to imagine that had

something to do with becoming an

attention [ __ ] That was when I started

doing dangerous [music] stunts.

I'm Steo and this is the fish hook.

Why stunts?

Growing up, I felt defective. And the

thought was I wasn't going to live very

long. So, I was lashing out [music] at

death, taunting it. But I lost my mom in

2003, and that traumatized me more than

anything. I was out of control,

broadcasting my downward spiral to 200

influential people in real time.

You were manhandled into a psychord.

Yeah, this was going to be my legacy

having miserably failed at life. And the

toughest thing is that I wanted to make

my mom proud.

[snorts]

Steven Gilchrist Glover aka Steo.

Honesty. Honesty saved Steo's life. But

the man that sits in front of me today

isn't Steo. It is Steven Gilchrist

Glover, which is a man you've probably

never met before. But once you meet

Steven Gilchrist Glover, you'll

undoubtedly understand Steo, that guy

that we grew up with on our screens

doing those crazy jackass stunts that

behind the scenes struggled with a deep

discomfort of being in his own skin.

depression, drug addiction, existential

panic, an obsession with attention,

crippling grief, and most surprisingly

and paradoxically of all, a deep, deep

fear of death. It absolutely doesn't

appear to make sense. But once you

listen to this conversation, if you

listen closely, you'll understand

exactly why that's driving him. This

conversation will make you laugh. It

will inspire you. It will motivate you.

It will challenge you. It will make you

feel understood. And it will teach you

what it takes and what it means to live

a good life, including the role that

romantic love has played in Steo finally

living a good life. And for me, it

reaffirms to me once again that in order

to live that good life, in order to find

that good life, we need to surrender,

stop fighting life, and we need to be

honest. And once we are, we might just

find all of the things that we're

looking for. You're going to love this

one.

[music]

Stephen.

All right.

You've lived a anomalous life.

The man that sits before me today is an

anomaly in many respects. The

professional path you've walked is

extraordinary to say the least. in order

to understand you, what what do I need

to understand about your your earliest

context to understand who you are and

why you walked the path you did in your

life?

What's the first sort of domino that

that I need to understand?

I would point to

my

uh lineage.

My mom's side of the family is uh

like the whole family tree. every leaf

on the tree. Um suffered from

alcoholism,

some form of addiction

um and and at the same time very

uh personable um charismatic individuals

but just very alcoholic and a lot of

deviants. Then my dad's side of the

family

is uh super academic. Um

there's a a lot of theologians,

clergymen,

everybody's got at at least like a

master's degree or a PhD or they're, you

know, highly decorated academia. And my

dad broke the mold by becoming a

businessman.

Um, so I just kind of think that I am a

little bit of a hybrid of both in that I

definitely

went towards deviance and suffered from

alcoholism, but I had this rocket engine

on it from my dad's side of the family.

And as I've grown older, I think my

uh

I kind of manifest my dad's side more

than my mom's side.

Before we started recording, I said that

one of the things that really surprised

me, we're sat in London now, was to

learn that you were born in London back

in 1974.

Yeah. Born in Wimbledon,

um which makes me British.

My mother was born in Canada, which

makes me Canadian. And my father was

born in America, which makes me

American. I'm what you call triple

national.

Wow.

And I hold three valid passports.

I'm very jealous.

It's cool.

Like having the keys to the to the world

in many respects.

How how did that impact you though

because you you told me that you were

you born here. Your first words were in

Portuguese, in Brazil, then you're in

Venezuela, then Canada, then USA. as a

young child that's figuring out the

world and figuring out where he belongs

and making friends. How does that sort

of destabilization impact impact you in

hindsight?

I don't think you have to be Sigman

Freud to imagine that uh that had

something to do with me becoming an

attention [ __ ] And um I think that

it's actually exacerbated by the fact

that when I moved to Brazil at the age

of 6 months

um I moved to Brazil because my father

became the president of Pepsi Cola in

all of Brazil. And

it was just kind of living it up, you

know. Um I think that's the best way to

describe it. and I didn't get much

attention from my parents. I was

actually raised um by live-in maids,

which is why I spoke my first words in

Portuguese. So, I think I was lacking

for some attention from my parents. And

I think that that has something to do

plus the instability

and and always being the new kid in

school. I was I never stayed one place

for more than a couple years. Um,

so yeah, I uh I I I point to that for

why I became such an attention [ __ ]

The the context that you were you raised

in your your mother's at home, your

dad's very very busy, very successful

businessman by all accounts.

Yeah. Not just busy, but traveling.

Okay. My my dad was consistently gone. I

I would argue that he was gone more than

he was home

and and mom was drunk um a lot. So I had

um

not just uh lacking attention but

lacking supervision a lot of the time

too.

In 2023 we've learned a lot about

addiction and alcoholism and those kinds

of things. But I I imagine I mean I

wasn't alive then, but back in 1974,

people didn't understand that behavior

as clearly as they do now. Did Did you

understand your mother's behavior when

you were young? Did you understand her

relationship with alcohol was a

an unhealthy thing or an addiction?

I think so. Yeah. Um

I think so because I remember um she

would have these these binges drinking

um where

it it wouldn't be the case that my mom

would get drunk at night and then wake

up and you know have a hangover and and

then get drunk again the next night. It

was more of a case where she would stay

drunk for for days or weeks on end. Um,

and

you how old? Sorry.

Oh, um, like it got really pretty crazy.

I would say when I was about eight,

certainly when I was nine, it was it was

terrible.

And um

whenever my mom would would sober up

from one of her binges, she would swear

that she was never going to drink again.

And invariably she would. And and and I

I I say this because I think I really

really understood the concept of the

disease of alcoholism very well because

when I would come home from school and

find that my mom was drinking, I would I

would say to you know, mom, you said you

were never going to do this again. And

she would explain to me that this time

it was going to be different. This time

she was only going to have a couple. And

I remember knowing that that was not the

case. And that's kind of the the reality

of alcoholism is that the alcoholic once

they start drinking, they cannot stop.

They've lost control. And and that it's

it's a characteristic of

alcoholics. The idea that that they the

illusion that one day they're going to

control and enjoy their drinking. and

and uh and they pursue this illusion

into the gates of insanity or death.

That's that's uh how it's described. And

I understood that. So I knew if mom had

one drink, I knew that all bets were off

for days or weeks.

You know, you talked about lineage like

Yeah. the family line.

Yeah. What is what is that then? Is that

is that a predisposition? Is that a

genetic predisposition in your view or

is that a a

generational trauma? You know, did you

have you ever figured out what causes

that? I understand there to be a genetic

component to the alcoholism. Um I don't

know that it really matters um as much

like like why one becomes an alcoholic,

but um certainly as I said on my mom's

side of the the family, it never skipped

a generation. I mean, it got everybody.

And the insanity of it, I mean, one

could really describe it as as a mental

illness. I mean, they

they do say it's a disease that's

centered in the mind. Um,

for me to see and experience what I did

as a child, like just how

how awful it got. And then for me to

just pick up a drink is is so is so

insane. I mean I if if anybody should

have known better, it should have been

me. And I remember at the time like 16

years old when I when I started drinking

regularly, I just uh convinced myself

that what would make me different is

that I was going to enjoy it. I was

gonna but I was gonna party

and uh it's just insanity.

That that speaks to the nature of the

addiction and the disease though because

people people that are outside of that

situation might see it as um

self-destructive.

But clearly, you know, clearly it's it

can't be that. It's clearly something

else because you saw how destructive it

was,

right? And yet it's still through no

choice you made, through no intention

you made, it it managed to to find you

later in life. Did what your father in

this context, is he aware that your

mother's has this disease of addiction

with alcohol?

Um, mom would really do her best to get

her act together by the time dad got

home from his business trips. um a and

with

very little success. I would say when

dad would get back, mom would describe

that that she was ill and and and dad

would believe it a lot of the time. I

think dad uh I mean, yeah, he knew, but

uh but the extent of it and um how naive

he was to to believe that mom just

wasn't feeling well or

did he did he did

I don't know. I mean, we we we would

describe it as rosecoled glasses.

Um, I don't know. And and perhaps dad

was just so focused on his stuff that I

mean, I don't even know. It would be

crazy to not know, but somehow I believe

that my dad was

particularly naive or

or gullible. I I'm not sure. But

sometimes I think men have a

predisposition to avoid conflict.

Yeah.

And to opt for an easy life,

right? Uhhuh. I think that that that's

probably fair, too.

But man, it's um

it just makes me really sad that uh

that that I lost my mom. Yeah. I I lost

my mom in in 2003.

um November of 2003.

And um I just like I think had we both

um been in recovery, I don't think

anybody from my mom's side of the family

ever managed to achieve long-term

sobriety, I think I'm the first. And

I just I fantasized about what it would

be like to for for my mom and I to have

both gotten,

you know, gotten it. What like what our

relationship would be like. She would

get such a kick out of it. I think that

she would have gotten such a kick out of

um me being successful

and she didn't get to see it, you know.

She never she never

Well, [clears throat]

the thing

Jackass had just started to move at that

point, hadn't it? Well, the thing was

that her last five years she um

was

terribly

disabled both physically and mentally

because in 1998

she suffered an aneurysm which le which

uh

yeah it um rendered her

ve very disabled. So the last five years

it it she she didn't

she she had a really rough last five

years and and that um traumatized me

more than anything. She developed bed

sores. She uh

she cried in pain for for her last five

years. It it was the most upsetting the

mo the by far the most traumatized I've

ever been by anything was the situation

that my mom was in for her last 5 years.

And um

yeah, and it's all because of this this

uh this thing, this alcoholism

and and had again like

had she been been in recovery, had that

not happened, had like we I just again I

fantasize about what our relationship

might be like today.

But yeah, that started us off on a

bummer. Yeah. [laughter]

Yeah. It's it's really interesting

context though. Specifically this, you

know, you said the thing about attention

and seeking attention from um in a

variety of different ways because you

were destabilized in terms of your

school, early schooling life. Your

father's not present. I I read that

you'd said that um you wanted your

father's approval and as a child your

father would praise you for physical

stunts such as

Yeah. ah

diving head first um

for baseballs or doing push-ups for your

father's and his friends.

I would do a hundred push-ups in a row

for his buddies and he'd give me like $1

and that

everybody got a kick out of that. I love

doing it and uh I don't think they were

terribly impressive push-ups because

hundreds a [laughter] lot. But um but

yeah, I I I was a little bit of a of a

performer at my dad's behest.

I think there's this thing called Love

Languages. Have you ever seen it before?

Have you ever done the Love Languages

test thing?

No.

It's this thing you do online and I

think it's pretty telling. I'm not into

like pseudo [ __ ] whatever, but it I

think it's pretty telling and it basic

you answer these like 30 40 questions

and it tells you the language of love

that you have. So some people are words

of affirmation. That's how they kind of

show and receive love. Some people are

physical touch. Some people are little

acts of service. Some people are gifts,

for example. And it was making me when

as I was reading that in your in your

book, I was thinking about how

like that can become a love language for

us. And it's funny cuz then I skipped to

this moment later in your story where

you had a heartbreak and the way that

you responded to the heartbreak to try

and get attention was by doing stunts.

Yeah.

And I just saw this connection there and

I thought, you know, it's interesting.

Some of our love languages can be like

stunts or [laughter]

Sure. or other forms of like validation.

Uhhuh.

Uh it's an interesting take on it. I

remember um at the point when I had the

heartbreak and that was when I when I

really started doing dangerous stunts.

Um, it it was less for Well, yeah, it

was for attention. And I wanted this

this this

girl who had dumped me to uh to be

worried that I would die [laughter]

like uh I mean, it's crazy. But yeah, I

was like I was jumping off rooftops into

pools and and you know climbing off of

like just huge balconies and stuff and

um

and sending her the videos or just

posting them where she

um at the time there was no such thing

as sending videos without going to the

post office. [laughter]

But yeah, I would send her in mail

videos from the post office. I would

mail them to her like once a year

[laughter]

and and and the videos genuinely did get

rder and rder. [laughter]

Yeah. Each new installment. It was uh it

was Yeah, it was crazy.

If I'd asked you when you were a young

man in your teenage years, what are you

going to be when you grow up? What would

you have responded?

Ah, man.

The first

actual

thought I had for a career to pursue was

um one in advertising.

You know, um my father had won a video

camera in a golf tournament and I stole

it from his closet and began

videotaping my skateboarding with my

buddies. And and I learned how to edit

by plugging these video cassette

recorders together. And I would hit play

on one and record on the other to just

record the the good bits. And and it was

crude editing, not sophisticated. Um but

uh I fell in love with the process and

clearly I wasn't that great at

skateboarding. So, um I just thought

there's something about

this uh capturing video and then editing

it

to, you know, I mean, create

presentations and ultimately to

manipulate the video to create

influence.

You know, there was just something

really magical and powerful about that.

And um I I

thought that that would be a great

career for me. And so I went off to the

University of Miami to pursue that, but

I just had trouble making it to class.

So I I graduating from university was

not in the cards.

And I I I knew I still loved the video

camera and, you know, manipulating

images to to sway people one way or the

other. And um I decided that since I

wasn't that great at skateboarding that

I would do crazy stunts. And so I

literally dropped out of university in

1993

to pursue a career as a crazy famous

stunt man. And there was no precedent at

the time. Like everybody who I explained

that plan to [laughter]

legitimately felt sorry for me. like

what a tragic loser I I seemed to be. A

and they weren't wrong. For the first uh

three years after I left the University

of Miami, I was genuinely homeless.

I was um

more of a couch surfer than, you know, a

a guy living on the streets. Um but

yeah, I had no home, man. And um I was

not doing well.

Quick one before we get back to this

episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your

time. Two things I wanted to say. The

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you love about this show. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Back to the episode.

There's so many things that I want to

ask this question because I just really

want to hear it in your own words, which

is like, and I've I'm trying to maybe

piece it together using some connected

dots, but why stunts?

I have a theory that um

that the the human condition is one of a

a real catch 22. We've got one instinct

which is to survive and one guarantee

which is we won't survive. And I and I

view the human experience largely as an

exercise to come to terms with our

mortality, to wrap our heads around it,

to become to come to peace with it. And

um I I view the different ways that

people

do that. Um you know there's there's

reproduction, we have children. So then

I I think uh that eases people's mind

about their mortality because they're

they have a legacy living on with their

children that they they won't really be

dead. Then of course people turn to

religion because they think everything's

going to be great when they go to

heaven. And and then there's people who

leave stuff behind to outlive them. You

know, like cavemen scrawling stick

figures on the on the cave. It it seems

that they they were just like I

described really upset about their

mortality and and leaving this art on

the cave walls to outlive them because I

had failed in in university the way the

way I did. I mean I failed every which

way that you can and every attempt that

I had ever had to be employed

ended in disaster. I was fired from

literally every job that I ever had. So,

not being able to uh make it through

school or keep a job, I felt absolutely

just

not qualified to navigate the world. I I

I I've I believed

that I was going to fail at life like

badly and and quickly. And um

I think that this idea that that I that

I I believed that I was just going to

fail at life and die very young.

I think that it heightened

my my mortality issues because even

though you know I was

I was young but like man think I was

somehow ang angry at the idea of of

death and and my theory is that I was uh

I was lashing out at death by by

climbing off of balconies and and just

dangling from my hands off like 12

stories and and letting go and dropping

onto the balcony below. Like that was

totally life-threatening, especially how

intoxicated I was while doing that. And

um [clears throat] you know, like like I

said, I wanted that girl who dumped me

to think I was going to die. like there

was this this this idea of mortality was

was very

woven into all all of uh the art. And so

I think that I was I I was I was upset

about mortality and and lashing out at

it. I was mocking death, taunting it.

What? Why you? Because that that is I

understand at a certain level we all

probably have that relationship with our

mortality, but you seem to more than

anyone I've ever spoken to have had a

more

close and adverse relationship with the

concept of mortality, the concept of

death. Like you seem to the way the way

that I'd word it plainly is like you

seem to have the biggest problem with

death than than anyone I've met.

All right.

Why? [laughter]

Um,

I think about it, you know, I've always

thought about it

since you were young.

I'd say so. Yeah, I would I would

absolutely say that. I I I I seem to

recall

being quite young.

I I I wouldn't know an age, but quite

young and and being in the bathtub

just for some reason I was thinking

about it's going to be the year 2000 and

and like we weren't really anywhere near

the year 2000.

Um but just kind of doing math in my

head trying to calculate how old I would

be at the turn of the millennium.

And I I came to uh

25. I'll be 25 years old. And and the

thought was, I'll never live that long.

[laughter]

No, I'll never make it that long. That

um

and again, I don't know how old I was,

but I was definitely a child when I had

that thought. And um

and and the the older I got, the more

convinced I was that that um I wasn't

going to live very long.

And and perhaps, you know, that's, you

know, another

manifestation of of my alcoholism. But I

think that that I think that really

to describe alcoh alcoholism

there's there's a like I felt defective,

you know, I felt like there was just

something wrong with me that uh things

weren't going to work, you know, and I

think that that that

to some extent is a a characteristic of

alcoholism for

a lot of alcoholics.

feel like just uncomfortable in your own

skin. They describe it as restless,

irritable, and discontented.

Um, defective is a word that really

resonates with me.

Does that does that ever subside?

It's a tough one because um I don't

think so.

I mean to an extent

yeah I I I'm definitely better with all

that now like what but

at the same time it doesn't go away. I

think that it it it improves and and you

know fluctuates and

but um what doesn't go away is this this

default setting I have that everything's

not going to be okay. You know, I live

in this perpetual state of of terrible

anxiety and stress that just things are

not going to be okay and I've got to

just hurry up and frantically work and

hustle to try to make it so everything

will be okay.

I'm not surprised to hear that because

it is the story I've heard over and over

and over and over and over again. S.

Okay. Okay. No. [clears throat]

And it surprises me because when before

I started doing this podcast and having

these conversations, I assumed that, you

know, something, you know, have a

certain upbringing, childhood, you're

programmed in a certain way, you go to

therapy and it's fixed.

Yeah.

And it's actually been I' I've asked the

question purely because I've never heard

anyone say anything other than what

you've said.

Right. So, you know, and I think it's

actually helpful because it helps people

know that they're not their efforts to

heal in whatever context that they've

tried to heal um doesn't make them

inadequate. It makes them very much

human that, you know, the way that we're

we're programmed and hardwired because

of whatever reasons,

you know, it it is um it is it is not

something that is easy or in many cases

possible just to therapy away or to

prescription away. And I think that's

makes people a lot of feel people feel

better.

And and what what's crazy too is that

I think and I'm fascinated that they

that you say this is something that

you've heard many times and

I've never not heard it.

Right. Um, and and I would also guess

that for all of the the successful

people that you've spoken with that they

would describe having been much more at

peace, much much more serenity, much

more happiness

before they were successful.

Yeah.

Yeah. and and um and it's so

counterintuitive to imagine that that's

the case, but

um there there's one saying that I think

really

explains it to a degree, which is that

this is the saying, um a man who has

nothing

only has to worry about his next meal,

but a man who has everything worries

about his last meal. [laughter]

Yes.

And that that messes me up, man. That

messes me up big time because if you're

just focused on the next meal, then

you're in the moment. Life's, you know,

pretty pretty simple. It's not too much

of a task to to

accomplish finding your next meal. But

once you've got your next meal covered,

then it's like, all right, then I've

I've saved up some money. My I'm I'm

good. My next meals are set for for the

next year.

And but then now you're thinking, how

long am I set for? And once you start

thinking, how long am I set for?

Then then then life gets really scary

when when because you're not in the

moment and you're you're future tripping

and everything isn't going to be okay.

And then and and and what's even crazier

is that I understand that there's been

studies about um financial security and

it's people who have upwards of

$10 million net worth who who find

themselves feeling

considerably more financially insecure

than than than than anybody who has less

the more money you have the more

financially insecure you feel.

The study that I read about this it says

that um they interviewed people all the

way up the wealth income spectrum and

they asked them the question how much

money how um how happy are you out of 10

and then they asked them the second

question which is how much money would

you need to be 10 out of 10 happy and

all the way up the wealth spectrum

people said three times currently what

they have now. So millionaires said they

needed 3 million. People with 10 million

said they needed 30 to be a 10 out of 10

happiness. And people with 100k said

they needed 300k which speaks to this

sort of like hedonic endless treadmill

um and increasing anxiety,

right? A and um also studies are pretty

clear that um

happiness will increase up to

like a baseline it's like 75k household.

Yeah, I think that that number is just

going up with inflation. I understood it

to be like 60,000

60,000 a year and then you've got all of

your needs met and then after that more

money doesn't really equate to more

happiness. And also to your point about

the the panic of like losing it, I think

that's a an issue for people that came

from nothing predominantly. So if you've

always had this financial security

growing up and you're you're you know

you were I don't know extremely wealthy

or and you've been wealthy, I think

people tend to have less of a fear of

going of losing it all and they also

never seem to have the guilt. I sit here

with people and they speak to this

success guilt they have and

[clears throat] I hear that a lot and it

it's typically people that have felt

sleeping on a sofa that have the kind of

even [snorts] when they become

successful they feel like they don't

deserve it to some degree

and I read that a little bit in your

story in your book

right now it's interesting because I I

grew up very privileged you know

[clears throat] my my uh

my my father didn't grow up with

privilege as I said he broke the mold

becoming a businessman. He became like

my my mom didn't marry a a rich guy. My

mom married a motivated guy who who

became quite wealthy. Um

I had

privilege guilt when I was a kid. I was

I was like

quite ashamed of um of how wealthy my

parents were

and and I don't understand why that is

but um

in whose eyes and

like I I I I was uh self-conscious about

h about um how my peers viewed me at

school. Um, as I grew older,

the the homes that we lived in,

each move to each, you know, represented

a bigger house, you know, it it became a

little bit obnoxious by by the end. Um,

when when I was um attending high school

um here in London, I went to the

American school in St. Johnswood and I

lived directly across the street from

Regent's Park on Prince Albert Road.

Oh wow.

In this I mean it was a a just goddy

obnoxiously huge house. And um I never

wanted kids from school to see it. So um

I uh you know we would have like

overnights. When you're a kid you

[clears throat]

I wouldn't have kids spend the night at

at my house. I was always overnight at

at

someone else's house.

And um for me to ride my skateboard to

to school, you know, it took a certain

amount of time. And if I if I would

oversleep, I would ride with my dad.

My dad was chauffeur driven to work and

and he would uh be reading his newspaper

in the back seat. And and whenever I

overslept and I had to ride with my dad,

the chauffeur would pull up to the

school and I as I got out of the car, I

would hug the chauffeur.

[laughter]

Yeah. Like to try to create the

impression that cuz I was just

embarrassed. My dad was in the back seat

like uh being chauffeered around.

[laughter] Uh I I don't know what that

is. Um

wanting to fit in. It's every I was the

opposite.

Okay.

In every respect. [clears throat] no one

came to my house because it was like it

was the windows were smashed and the

grass was 6 foot high. Um so everything

you described was me but the opposite

for opposite reasons. Like I would I

would pray that the traffic lights near

our school would stop go turn red which

meant that I could get out of the like

this beat up van we drove in as far from

school as possible.

Yeah. [laughter]

You worried you're hugging the

chauffeur,

right? It's really interesting too. Like

I I went to a super privileged school

too. I mean like uh I attended school

with the son of the American ambassador

to to the UK. Like I like my my best

friend was this kid Abdullah. His father

was like a crazy like oil tycoon. And uh

when I when I when I was in

for for me fifth and sixth grade I was

in London, England at that time too.

Same school.

And my father was I'm not even quite

sure what his job position was but but

worked for Delmonte the canned fruits

and he had to um uh you know like the

all the p there was a pineapple factory

in Kenya. dad had had to go visit this

pineapple factory, I want to say maybe

once a year. And so he planned the trip,

his trip to the pineapple factory in

Kenya to coincide with

uh our our spring break, the one week

off from from school so that he could

take the family on safari.

And I have this crazy memory of coming

out of the airport in Nairobi,

being ushered into some chauffeur driven

car. I always remembered it as a a

stretch limo. My dad says, "No, we

didn't have it." But whatever. Ushered

into a chauffeur driven car out of the

airport. And um and sitting in the back

of this car and these these just it was

my first time seeing poverty, like real

poverty. And these people were were

clawing at the windows begging.

And I'm just sitting in this car and and

and just thinking, what did I ever do to

deserve to be like I'm not a good kid,

you know? Like I I'm just always in

trouble like I don't do just like again

feeling defective, you know, like and I

was I really wasn't a good kid. I mean,

I was always in trouble. Everything was

just a disaster with me. And here I am

inside the car that's being clawed at by

these people who are barely clothed, you

know, and just clearly desperate. And um

that like that was a moment where I felt

genuinely guilty, you know, I had a priv

privilege guilt, you know, and that's

that's worse than success guilt because,

you know, a and again I did everything

wrong. I was always in trouble. got

terrible grades. And my sister, who was

who is three and a half years older than

me, she did everything right, got

straight A's, the the the just did

everything perfect.

Somehow

along the way,

like my like my sister

um went into a low earning career. She

was a school teacher, which is

notoriously underpaid, especially for

how important of a job that is. um with

the sing became a single mom with a

special needs kid and and low earning

and and it like

kind of struggles, you know, like like

life is hard for my sister and and like

somehow me the the guy who just did

everything wrong and then goes on to

have this

stupid career and and everything works

out great for me. So when you said

success guilt,

I feel that I I feel like like what why,

you know, why did everything work out

great for me and my sister's having a

tough time? And and I struggle with

that, too. I actually um

I uh I I I have a I I've always called

it kind of survivors guilt, but but

yeah, success guilt, same thing.

You your mother um had a brain aneurysm

in 98. You said

um Jackass the pilot was in 99.

Yeah.

A year later.

Yeah.

You describe how your mother was ill for

for roughly 5 years before she passed

away and she was um disabled.

You're very busy with jackass at that

time. How do you do you deal did do you

did you cope with it? because it doesn't

seem to me that there's any anyone in

your life really at that point or any

experience that's going to help you deal

with the concept of grief and loss,

right?

How did you cope with it

if you did at all?

Um, [clears throat]

my parents divorced in 1991.

I graduated from the American school

here in London, the American school in

London in St. John'swood in 1992.

I went off to the University of Miami.

Um the right around the time when I went

to the University of Miami, my mom moved

to Florida as well.

Mhm. [clears throat]

Then on that fateful day of October

10th, 1998, we received word that

mom had this [clears throat] brain

aneurysm. My sister and I flew to

Florida from New Mexico.

My dad flew to Florida from England. We

all congregated around

this this crisis with my mom.

At one point, we went to a a nearby

restaurant

just to get a meal. I went outside to

smoke a cigarette and my dad came

outside and he initiated this

conversation. He says, "I've been I want

to tell you that I feel I've done a

disservice to you by not supporting you

in this path that you've chosen. My my

path to be a crazy famous stunt man," he

said. He said, "I chose a path that my

father, you know, dad broke the mold

becoming a businessman. The idea of that

was pretty repugnant to his father

and and he said that his father had the

same conversation. Well, you chose

something that I would not have chosen

for you, but you're clearly committed to

it and so I just want you to be the best

and you know be the happiest and I

pledge to support you. And I'm thinking,

man, like it's tough because I'm a

loser, you know, like the whole thing

going on with my mom was was kind of

prevalent, but this the side

[clears throat]

conversation like I just felt like, wow,

you know, like now dad supports me and

I I I I just did I didn't feel very very

hopeful, I don't think, at that time,

but it put a lot of wind in my sales. So

the next year

I saw this advert on television for a

show called Real TV where they're saying

if you got if you have video home video

footage that's crazy and you think that

we should have it on our show then call

this number and I called the number and

sent them my video tape and they wanted

it and uh and dad helped me negotiate

the the license deal with them and uh it

was meaningful. You know, the this

pursuit of becoming a crazy famous stunt

man had made my father and I as far

apart as as you know,

it really really made us not our

relationship suffer.

Mhm.

And then ultimately it would bring us

together. And today

my dad is 80 years old, been retired

forever, but he's come out of retirement

and I he's on my payroll.

He uh manages like all kinds of uh

business stuff for me, all my insurance

stuff like

and um

it's crazy. It's insanity

[clears throat]

that that that you just again what what

what drove us so far apart brought us so

close together.

And that catalyst moment was your

mother's brain aneurysm. Really?

It was.

That conversation might not have

happened. And then

it it it was and now now you pointed to

when Jack asked her to I wouldn't des

well. Okay.

Um,

my sister and I

both moved from New Mexico to Florida

to be with your mom.

To be with my mom.

Yeah.

And my sister

naturally assumed the role of of

caregiver for my mom. And um I I got

this opportunity to go uh be a circus

clown on cruise ships

and it just made sense for me to do

that, you know, like um I think that my

overall

attitude

particularly like even going off to work

on cruise ships and then with you know

with with Jackass,

I don't think that I had any level of

like

guilt about it. I think that my my

attitude about pursuing

my own career and to be, you know, with

jackass and everything else,

my attitude was that

rather than let this aneurysm

destroy

everything that that I've I've really

strongly wanted to get out there and

really make something of myself and that

that would be the way to honor my mom

more and and make my mom proud that way.

People don't often appreciate how

difficult it is for the everybody around

the individual that's that's sick. And

I've again I've learned that from doing

this having this conversation about just

how sort of debilitating and

difficult it is for everyone around the

individual, especially when they're in a

situation where they become disabled.

And your mother's situation was,

I mean, she she she couldn't move from

what I understood. She wasn't

necessarily speaking.

She was wheelchair bound. She uh had to

be lifted out of bed and into a

wheelchair and and back.

And could she she could speak?

[snorts]

She could speak, but

there there it fluctuated how present

she was, how aware she was.

Um one of the more aware moments I said,

"Mom, I'm going to have a book written

about my life." and she uh she said,

"And who's going to write this

masterpiece?"

[laughter]

You know, she was making fun of me and

it was funny like uh the last time that

um that my mom ever laughed was I I came

home

um with the words [ __ ] and [ __ ] tattooed

on my knuckles. And um mom was in the

hospital at that point with the do not

resuscitate order on her bed. Like this

was this was the end. Like it was about

a month before she passed. And um

I I I walked into her hospital room and

I just didn't, you know, it was just a

tough situation. I didn't and I just

said, "Hey, ma,

like check it out and I held up my my

knuckles to her and she she she looked

at it and she said, "Shit [ __ ]

[ __ ] fuck."

And then she said, "My son is a [ __ ]

fuck." and she like she laughed and and

it's just the most beautiful I thought

it was just the most beautiful thing

like uh she's able to laugh and you know

and um

yeah it's tough man that whole thing's

tough

and and and the toughest thing is just

imagining

when uh when I was struggling in the

beginning like like prior to her an

annual ism. Like there were times when

uh I'd show her one of my videos. I

said, "Mom, check it out." She says, "Oh

yeah, that that's great,

but like h how how

is this ever going to like earn you

anything?" [laughter]

You know, like she didn't ever seem to

be like terribly concerned for my

safety. of those shorter videos of like

jumping off of bridges and [laughter]

like, you know, doing stuff that was

like really pretty dangerous and and uh

appeared to be life-threatening and and

that never seemed to upset her. What

what she was upset about was that uh

that I I was I didn't have a pot to piss

in. And she would say, "You don't have a

pot to piss in. Like, how am I supposed

to be impressed by this? Where's this

ever going to get?" you know, how's this

ever gonna? She would say, "Show me the

money, [laughter]

you know, show me the money." Like, how

is this going to get you the money? And

um man, like given that that that was

her position on it and I think that that

she was um largely concerned with the

appearance of things and and um like

less she wasn't ever I never got the

sense that she was worried for my safety

on any level. I think that what she was

concerned with was how I reflected on

her.

Interesting. you know, like my son's a

loser. This is a bummer. You know, she

was bummed that I was a loser because

that reflected badly on her. And um

that's just that's what was important to

her. You know, there's nothing wrong

with that. And um

is that why you want her you'd like her

to be able to see?

God, yeah, man. That's the toughest

thing to imagine if uh if we if if she

she had been to rehab many times. she

was in the program of recovery, but she

just couldn't hang on to that, you know?

She would always she would just always

end up drinking again. And um I think

that what would what would cause her to

relapse was was the you know trauma from

the breakup with my dad, which was just

a vicious cycle because what broke her

up with my dad was her drinking. and

then the trauma from the the divorce

would make, you know, it's just a

vicious cycle. But um had she gotten it,

had she really really grabbed onto it

and not let go and been in recovery and

and both of us like she would have just

gotten such a kick out of like

being on being on the red carpet at a

big movie premiere and she would just be

letting me have it, making fun of me for

the dumb [ __ ] I was doing in the movies.

Like we'd be laughing. So that was one

thing. My mom had like a sense of humor.

She had She was cool, man. She was cool.

And we would we we related to each other

a lot.

You're you're 29 November the 7th she

passes away.

Correct.

A mixture of emotions. I read in your

book um in Professional Idiot, page 194,

the overwhelming emotion I felt

afterward was was relief. Sure. Yeah.

She like she it this the suffering was

over, you know. It was it was merciful

like that. There was nothing upsetting

about my mom dying. It was what was

upsetting was the the pain and the

suffering that she had endured for the

five years leading up to her death.

Do you ever process that? We talk a lot

about these days about grief and we

understand that grief is a thing and I

don't think we ever did before. Do you

did you ever process that?

If I did, it was years later in recovery

and and digesting the concepts in that

book, Conversations with God.

That was when

I finally

Uh

the that that was when I just

developed the idea that mom wasn't

alone,

you know, that mom was uh she wasn't

alone. She like that that was an

experience that she had

as God. And then somehow that just that

it's it doesn't change anything but it

changes everything.

Alone.

Why why the word alone? Why was that the

concern?

Yeah.

Just because the

I mean it it's uh

like on on a bigger level like

mom mom's this one thing, you know? So

there's no such thing as alone.

At the same time, jackass starts taking

off, right? So that's roughly around

that time your fame goes through the

roof.

Yeah. Well, mom's aneurysm was 1998.

I worked on cruise ships for six months

of 1999.

I worked in a circus at a flea market

for six months in year 2000. And Jackass

came out in October of year 2000. And

then yeah, everything

the movie comes out 2002. Yeah.

Um you're 28 years old at that time.

Your mother passes when you're 29 the

next year. These two things have almost

happened at similar times. Your

trajectory has started to skyrocket.

Your mother has passed away.

Lots to deal with, lots going on. Fame

is this new thing in your life now and

attention and as you said earlier, like

worrying about the next meal is maybe

sometimes a better problem than worrying

about the last. Um, this strikes me as

as a real difficult moment in your life.

Um, I I the from Professional Lydia,

which I [snorts] read, it said, "By by

mid 2007, I was practically living on

diet coke, booze, and nitrous."

A not diet coke, a diet of cocaine.

Oh, cocaine. [laughter]

[ __ ] I

DIFFERENCE.

It was a It was a diet of coke.

[laughter]

Big difference.

Um, you were hallucinating and hearing

voices.

Yeah, big time. It's called psychosis

and and it's a fascinating um it's a

fascinating thing

that um there are so many different

substances one can ingest that

might bring about this phenomena of

psychosis.

yet there's so much similarity between

the experiences people have with it uh

even though they take so many different

avenues to get there.

And that's partially why I believe that

psychosis um

that there's uh

sort of different compartments maybe

dimensions and that um we're in our in

our human experience we're uh in a

distinct compartment

uh and that psychosis happens when you

erode

the the barriers to the other

compartments, other dimensions. And by

doing that with with chemical

substances,

um we erode the barriers, kind of open

ourselves up to energies from

other dimensions.

um

you open yourself up to like all levels

of it. So you can really let in demons,

you know, like like demons being

lowlevel frequency energy and angels

like being higher level

and [clears throat] by uh just consuming

enough substances. I I I really believe

that you erode the barriers, you open

yourself up to all these energies and um

in comes flooding

demons and and angels. that that's how I

characterize my experiences with

hallucinations.

Um

all that stuff is uh demon activity with

some angels mixed in.

Um I was reading about this thing called

the rad email list.

Oh yeah. where you sent an email to a

lot of people which I think ultimately

sounds like one of the things that

brought about an an intervention but

right [clears throat] it wasn't one

email it was more of a uh

stream

a barrage

I was inundating a list of 200 roughly

200 people many of them very influential

people in the the entertainment

industry,

celebrities and agents and just powerful

people, you know, media personalities.

Um,

a and I was just inundating these 200

people with emails at all hours around

the clock and and effectively

broadcasting my downward spiral in real

time. and and I would send at times

really funny stuff, you know, at times

uh

just deeply alarming stuff. I was, you

know, I I was

I knew

that how out of control I I was and it

but but I but I was just I was rad. I

mean, I was out of my mind. I was out of

my mind and I was making that abundantly

clear by uh sending video. YouTube had

become a thing. YouTube started in 2005.

So 2007,

YouTube allowed me to make really

disturbing videos and then email the

links to 200 people.

If I was a flyer on the wall in 2007 in

your life, what would I have seen on an

average day?

In 2007,

I was renting four apartments in one

building. One of them I just

demolished the walls and built a skate

park throughout the whole apartment. Um,

with permission from the landlord?

No, not at all. No, no permission

whatsoever. And it was just with the

there the the I remember there was like

a Russian prostitute operation um in the

adjacent apartment. So they weren't

trying to complain about the noise.

There was a stairwell

uh on the other side and beneath was the

the parking garage. [clears throat] So

it was um there there were never any

complaints for that. And then um a

little bit down the hall was uh I had um

a couple of my buddies living there. One

of one of them was uh you know edited

stuff for me but we very very rarely

Well, I mean he would

he thinks he works hard.

Yeah. I mean I I had people like on

salary and they they didn't do too much

but when I was really out of my mind and

these disturbing videos that I wanted to

email the links to the rat email list my

editor guy was in charge of that. Um, so

yeah, I had the the office, the skate

park apartment, the office apartment,

[clears throat] and then I had an

apartment for the assistant. The

assistant really didn't do anything um

except uh explain to people that she

couldn't get a hold of me [laughter]

and change my flights uh when because I

would always miss my flights. [laughter]

Um, and then I had my apartment which uh

was this is sort of a is where all where

all the really crazy stuff happened.

That was that was just my little drug

den. And um I would I would inhale this

nitrous oxide stuff and and it would

come in these little cartridges that

people used to make whipped cream. And a

box of these nitrous oxide cartridges

would

have there would be 24 cartridges per

box. But if you bought a case, there

would be 25 boxes in the case. And I

believe that 25 time 24 comes to 600.

Um, and so I would sit down with 600

cartridges of nitrous oxide and just

inhale

like the the the thing that the

cartridge goes into this canister.

Correct. Yeah. But I'd have two of them.

Oh. So I would, you know, crack

I would crack one open, fill that and

inhale it with my lungs filled with

nitrous oxide. I would be busy filling

up the next one

so that when I exhaled the nitrous from

the first, I would then inhale just so I

would not brea I was I wasn't breathing

air as like uh I was brea I was inhaling

nitrous oxide to the exclusion

of breathing air. I mean, as much as

possible. And my my goal at all times

would be to lose consciousness because

if you um you know, if you do that and

you hold your breath, you you will

become unconscious and you're kind of

twitching and and flopping around and

and uh your lips are all blue and then

and then you come back to and and

it would uh it's not not healthy. And I

would be doing that and I would be doing

that for days on end while um snorting

cocaine. So it was on on like the second

and

particularly on the third day of being

awake on a cocaine binge while inhaling

nothing but nitrous oxide. Um, that's

when the the most profound psychosis

with all of the hallucinating

would be going on.

You sent out on that rad email one time,

suicidal ideiation.

Yeah. I I I uh

I um

I mean I was going so crazy in this

apartment and um I uh

very loud and and and um

destructive in there. And and the the

next department over

was a

a lawyer in his first year of being a

lawyer. Uh so you know like

um a a guy who cared about work and I

was just making all kinds of noise at

all hours and so he was he would call

the police this my neighbor it's insane

you know and um the more that the police

would show up at my apartment the

angrier I would get at the lawyer who

was calling the police which is a little

bit backwards and that was kind of my mo

like I would I would wrong people and

then I would resent them for their

perfectly natural response to being

wronged by me. [laughter]

Mr.

So I would uh you know I would bang on

the guys. I would really antagonize this

this poor lawyer guy. And um at one

point it it got to uh

to the level where pounding on the wall.

I actually pounded a hole in the wall.

And um I pounded a hole, you know, on my

side there's the there's the the the

drywall and then in between there's like

the fiberglass stuff and then then

there's his side throughout. I actually

this one night pounded all the way

through his side of the wall, too. So, I

was actually looking into [laughter] his

apartment, which of course constitutes

vandalism.

So, when he called the cops this time

and the the cops showed up, they had no

choice but to actually arrest me for

vandal. He said, "Look, they put a hole

in my wall." So, they um were here to

arrest me. And I was um really really uh

out of it. um like having been

snorting both cocaine and ketamine. So,

I was super out of it and didn't put it

together that I was being arrested and

going to jail with a bag of cocaine in

my pocket.

I mean, I probably could have. It would

make sense that. And I remember it was

funny, too, because they said that I was

barefoot and I had no shirt and they

said, "Well, we have to take you to

jail. we have no choice but we will let

you go

put a t-shirt

put on a shirt and some shoes which

which was the perfect opportunity for me

to go into my apartment and remove the

bag of cocaine from my pocket but I

didn't do that and I said you know [ __ ]

a shirt [ __ ] shoes [laughter]

so I went to jail completely barefoot

and shirtless [laughter] with a bag of

cocaine in my pocket and um

and Then when they, you know, when they

process you into jail, they search, you

know, your pockets, they found the

cocaine, then they arrested me again.

So, I was now I had a felony cocaine

possession charge as well as the

vandalism charge and and this was like

pretty well publicized the you know the

fact of the cocaine and you know the

arrest and um when I was released from

the jail I was in there for like uh I

want to say like three days because the

consensus

among anybody who loved me was he's

better off in jail. So there was no

concerted effort to bail me out, which

was why I managed to stay in there for I

believe about three days. And then when

I finally did get released from the jail

after the three days and I returned to

my apartment, there was an eviction

notice on the door. So my response to

that was, "Oh, okay. Well, I'm being

evicted." And I went into the apartment.

I found more vials of ketamine that I

had stashed in there and I cooked that

all up and um

within a couple hours I was like

screaming about

God like while jumping up and down on a

parked car and like dealing with more

cops.

You were you were manhandled into a

psychord, right? Like

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I went on this this

this predigious final bender and and uh

I was running out of time before I had

to get my stuff out of the apartment. I

was evicted. So the email to the rad

email list was, "Hey, I have to have my

stuff out of this apartment because I've

been evicted,

but before I have to

be gone,

I want to

uh jump a motorcycle. I want to ride a

motorcycle through the living room and

off a ramp and jump it over onto the

building next door, which was very very

small gap. [laughter]

It was not there. It was hardly even a

big stunt. And and it was like two and a

half stories up. Uh I think I was on the

third floor, but it was really like kind

of two and a half. So maybe like 20 25

feet. And I I said on the rad email

list, and I als I want to jump the

motorcycle onto the roof next door, and

I want to jump out of the bedroom window

into a hot tub. You know, I said, "So,

Knoxville, bring a camera crew and a hot

tub. And if you can't do the hot tub, at

least bring some cardboard boxes. But

I'm jumping out of the window. And I'm

jump, you know, and if you don't come,

I'm jumping out of the window anyway.

I'm going to jump. I'm going to find out

how many bones break when I land on the

sidewalk 25 ft below. I'm ready to die.

Like I was I was like promising that I

was going to jump out of the window and

and break bones on the concrete below

and that qualified me for the

psychiatric evaluation.

And they they staged an intervention.

They staged an intervention. Yeah. I

said not so Knoxville responded. I I

forget if he responded with all 200

people on copy.

Oh [ __ ] But uh but I said this I did

this on the the rad email list with the

200 people and and um I said uh

um if Knoxville responded. He says,

"Okay, I'll be there." You know, I said,

"Be here at 10:00 a.m.

Be here at 10 a.m. I'm going to jump."

And what his response was, he says, "Uh,

can we do noon? What's with the early

call times?" Sheesh. [laughter]

So, we agreed on noon.

I forget. I I don't think he was

concerned with the early call times. I

think what he was concerned with was

having more time to uh to rally a, you

know,

a a group to really do the intervention.

But, but by in that email exchange, I I

was not scheduling a shoot for,

you know, for jackass as I thought. I

was actually scheduling my intervention

and that's really where your life seems

to have started to take a new direction

although not linear in any respect.

Well, I mean that that that intervention

marked uh the beginning of my journey.

I've been clean and sober since that day

which is

I mean the the intervention was March

9th.

The intervention was March 9th of 2009.

Wait, sorry

8. Yeah, March 9th of 2008.

And if we don't count that as our

sobriety date because it's the first day

you didn't get loaded is your sobriety

date. So my

my sobriety date is March 10th of 2008.

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arrives. Back to the episode. Over 14

years sober.

Over 15 now.

Over 15 years sober.

Yeah.

Congratulations, dude.

That's amazing. Honestly, that's

incredible. It

It's so incredible. And I don't say that

to, you know, to be uh self-important

or, you know, like like douchy. It's

just the most profound gift like ever.

And and I I believe strongly that you

know this conversation began with this

dark discussion of alcoholism and and

and how uh just how terrible and and sad

alcoholism is. However,

as upsetting as alcoholism and drug

addiction is,

it's the only disease where once you

treat it,

you become a better version of yourself

than you were before.

And and that's really incredible to me

because any other disease, the best you

can hope for is to get back to as

healthy as you were before you got sick.

But for us sober alcoholics and addicts,

like we genuinely become improved

versions of ourselves.

And the work you've done since has been

incredible. I mean, you've taken on many

professional pursuits. Um, your stand-up

comedy became a professor of your life

in 2013.

Uh, 2010.

2010. Okay.

I had the first time I had um gotten on

stage in a comedy club and and uh

performed what what I intended to be

standup comedy was 2006.

How did that go?

Um, I thought it went a lot better than

it actually did, but um but

the first time I ever got on that stage,

it it wasn't it wasn't a disaster. It

became a disaster later. Um,

but but in 2010, once I'd been clean and

sober for just over two years, I I I

pursued standup comedy in earnest.

Why standup comedy? I know you've got a

big tour coming up in the UK, but why

standup comedy? I'm trying to understand

the through line between the stunts.

It's the the the through line is just

attention seeking,

you know. Um,

the first time I ever got on stage to

perform in a comedy club, uh, there was,

it was 2006,

I believe it was August of 2006, and,

um, our second Jackass movie was, um, to

be released a couple months later.

Showed up at this comedy club. I walked

in, had no plan for what I was going to

do, and just observing what was

happening on the stage with somebody

standing there holding a microphone just

speaking to the audience.

Um, I thought there's no stunt that

could possibly be crazier than that, you

know, like I'm going to do my my my the

craziest stunt that I could possibly do

is no stunt at all. I'm going to stand

there and speak into a microphone and

try to make the people laugh. This was

genuinely the most terrifying concept.

And I was just wasted enough to decide

I'm going to do that. When it became my

turn to to get on the stage,

um I had come up with one joke. And as I

got on the stage, there were people they

were aware of me. They were excited to

see me. I felt like an excitement.

[clears throat] Uh they they were there

to have a good time. time they were they

were rooting for me.

I mean, of course, like [clears throat]

get on stage. I was Steo Rad. They were

I felt loved. I felt uh they were

rooting for me. They wanted to have a

good time.

Terrified.

I got I got on I was terrified. But but

uh but it was it was just it was man it

was uh it was electric, dude. And um you

know I I said you know what's up

everybody? I'm in the mood for a

[ __ ] Does anybody want one?

[laughter]

And uh and and and I got a laugh, you

know, like they'd laughed and I just was

so happy about that. And um I couldn't

have been on that stage for more than

three minutes. Like um I got on and I

got off. Just got out of there and it

was a favorable experience and I decided

that this was something I wanted to

pursue.

And you've been pursuing it ever since.

There's a an awesome tour coming up in

the UK from June 30th to July 14th, I

believe, called Bucket List. That's

right. And and

which I'm coming to see.

Oh, dude. I love that, man.

Make sure that that happens. So,

[clears throat]

when when I started doing standup in

earnest in 2010,

um I imagined that I was

that I was trying to establish myself as

a stand-up comedian and that I was going

to forge a career with with speaking

into a microphone.

And um and and I felt that I felt that I

was well equipped to succeed in that

endeavor because my life has been so

just uh colorful like the experience

that I've had in my life like to to to

to mine my life experience for material

in standup comedy.

Uh it seemed very doable, you know, like

I've got I've got stuff to talk about.

So, I I felt that I came into standup

comedy not with just an advantage and

that I had um an audience, a profile,

but I I just had interesting material

to,

you know,

to to mine. And um

clearly the world was not eager for

the standup comedy of Steo. You know, I

think that they're

the bar for the stuff that I was known

for, like to to go from like the the the

the shocking like unbelievable like

crazy visual

stuff that I'd become known for

and then appear speaking into a

microphone.

It seems like a

mismatch and expectation.

Yeah. Like

that's always disappointment, isn't it?

Right. like and and maybe this is from

my own perception I'm not sure but with

all of the self-doubt with all of the

um you know ne negative self-t talk I

just still persisted and um I I wasn't

super successful in the beginning and

like of course not but I was successful

enough

to get booked by comedy clubs and then

be welcomed back and I would go around

this comedy club circuit around the the

United States. And I did just well

enough to go back around the loop. And

that loop lasted for 11 years in comedy

clubs and and um I I tirelessly

persisted. I I I genuinely didn't. I put

in work and I developed this craft of

storytelling and and standup telling

jokes along the way. I taped

two comedy specials. The first one was

me and a microphone and uh some

intermittent stunts I performed on stage

throughout the act.

Mhm.

And as I put together what would become

the next comedy special, I put together

this this new act to tour with. It

occurred to me that the stories I was

telling in this new act had

for the most part all

happened on camera. And I had the idea,

wow, what if for my next comedy special,

I I perform the act, but in postp

production, I edit into

the special interstitial footage of

these stories unfolding.

A love that depth to the storytelling.

Oh, dude, my head exploded. I got so

excited. I I couldn't even I couldn't

even stand it. Wow. like I'm going to

have a my next comedy special is going

to be multimedia.

Uh that that one I put out myself. Um

and uh

and then it was time to put together the

third show. So now I knew that for this

third show,

which is bucket list.

The bucket list, correct? that I needed

to

film all new stuff which would lend

itself to all new standup material and

it had to be crazier than [ __ ] It had

to be crazier than ever.

And that's what people will see if they

go. Okay.

For sure. Th this uh

there there were just ideas that came up

over the years that were that were

genuinely

never supposed to happen on any level,

but they were they were just

ideas that I was so fond of because they

were crazy things to say.

I can't wait.

The idea was to push things further than

Jackass ever could. And there's no way

that

you do that and there's not a story to

tell. You know, there's [laughter]

like the the the challenges of of making

these things happen. It's just there's

uh it's inherently

juicy

material for standup. There's just no

way around it. and and one step further

is that

um I've worked so hard on um developing

the ability to be in a healthy

relationship with a life partner.

So I was just about to ask you this was

my last question which was about Lux,

right? My fiance Lux and and the the the

bucket list show is every bit as much

about these

ultra highlevel jackass stunts and how

they were conceived and executed. It's

every bit as much about that as the

implications

of carrying out these bucket list items

on my relationship with my fiance. What

I was actually going to ask you about

was specifically kind of the

juxtaposition of what's making you

successful here seems to me as a guy

that's got into a relationship struggled

to find a relationship for my own

reasons with my childhood seems to be