I've read through a decade of your

research to figure out what the best

investment is, so anyone can get rich in

the future. And you predicted that this

will grow by at least 5,000%.

Yes, and my conviction is so high

because of what I do on a day-to-day

basis. Is there a woman on planet Earth

that manages more money from an

investing capacity than you? Maybe not.

I'm overseeing nearly $30 billion.

Okay, so I might have $500. What should

I be doing with that? So, this is all

you need to know. Cathie Wood built a

multi-billion dollar fund by spotting

trends before anyone else. And now, with

over 40 years of market insight, she's

showing you how and where to invest,

too. AI is the biggest technological

disruption in history. And this

incredible rate of change is making

people uncomfortable. But if you are on

the right side of change, investment

opportunities and job opportunities are

going to be enormous. But people don't

know what to do. For example, many

people think Apple is a very safe

investment, but it's probably going to

be disrupted by artificial intelligence.

But yet, Tesla's going to be the

biggest.

You've invested just over 2 billion in

Tesla. Yeah, because Tesla is the

largest AI project on Earth. So, AI has

to be a top priority, not an

afterthought. Say I've got questions.

What's your top 10 public stocks that

anybody can invest in? What's the

philosophy towards investing that will

make one rich over time? And then, if I

want to invest in AI, how should I be

investing my money? According to our

research, these investments will go up

more than tenfold in the next 5 to 10

years and create incredible

opportunities for investors. So, number

one,

This has always blown my mind a little

bit. 53% of you that listen to this show

regularly haven't yet subscribed to this

show. So, could I ask you for a favor

before we start? If you like this show

and you like what we do here and you

want to support us, the free simple way

that you can do just that is by hitting

the subscribe button. And my commitment

to you is if you do that, then I'll do

everything in my power, me and my team,

to make sure that this show is better

for you every single week. We'll listen

to your feedback, we'll find the guests

that you want me to speak to, and we'll

continue to do what we do. Thank you so

much.

Cathie Wood,

is there a woman on planet Earth that

manages more money from an investing

capacity than you?

Well, there's probably not someone

overseeing Yes, nearly $30 billion.

Uh but I know there are teams out there,

including women, that manage maybe a lot

more than that. What is it that you do?

Invest in companies that are going to

that are technologically enabled and

that that are going to transform the

world as we know it.

Robotics,

energy storage, artificial intelligence,

blockchain technology, and multiomic

sequencing in the life science space.

The last is the most complicated. And

how long have you been an investor? I

started when I was 20 years old at a

company called Capital Group, and I was

introduced to the firm by Art Laffer.

Now, Art Laffer, he's one of the most

important economists of our time. He

created something called the Laffer

Curve. He's advised most presidents

since President Nixon, and he's advising

President Trump as well. And how is

these five big innovation platforms that

you speak of, how is that going to have

an impact on

the average person's life? Like, why do

they need to know this stuff?

How is it going to change their

decision-making and change their career

and Now that the world is moving so

quickly into this new world,

uh and Bitcoin has become so successful

an investment, many people are trying to

figure out, okay, how how do I get

involved with the new world? And when I

say get on the right side of change, we

think there's going to be a lot of

disruption to the traditional world

order. And when I say that in terms of

people understanding what I mean,

I think many people think Apple is a

very safe investment because huge hoard

of cash, very successful smartphone, you

know, number one market share of

smartphones

in terms of profitability, by far.

And yet, we can tell you, and this is

one of what's called the Mag 6 that led

the stock market over the last few

years.

The top six stocks.

The top six stocks, the market was very

narrowly focused on this ilk of stock,

and we were saying, you know what?

Apple is probably going to be disrupted

by artificial intelligence.

And one of the reasons we started asking

questions very early is what is the

ultimate mobile device? Ultimately, it's

going to be an autonomous vehicle.

Apple should have been all over that,

and they were trying, and we saw one

management turnover after another. This

is an AI project, and what we were

learning as they were turning that team

over

time and again is

they they weren't getting AI right. They

were not positioning correctly. You're

concerned for Apple?

I think Apple

it has so much cash, it has such a loyal

customer base. Uh it will be fine, but

maybe

its revenue growth has slowed to almost

nothing.

And so, maybe it'll be a mature cash

cow. That's not what we do. We invest in

technologically enabled disruptive

innovation. AI is the biggest

technological disruption in history. And

if they're not going to get it right,

we're not going to be there. So, if I

want to invest in AI, if I agree with

you, Cathie, and I say to you, you know,

I think I think you're right that AI is

the biggest technological wave coming

into shore and the biggest opportunity,

how how should I be investing my money?

In in in your view, how are you

investing your money to capitalize on

AI? Many people used to invest in AI

through one stock. That was Nvidia. That

was the check-the-box, I own the GPU,

the chip manufacturer, which is the most

important chip manufacturer in the AI

age. And its valuation, meaning

its

price relative to earnings, um really

got up to very heady levels. And we were

saying at the time, well, if Nvidia's

valuation is correct, there there there

are going to be a lot of other winners.

Who are they?

Uh well, our largest position in the

flagship strategy, ARKK, is Tesla.

And as we were trying to help people

understand why we were swapping away

from Nvidia to stocks like Tesla and

Palantir, which is a software provider,

um we were trying to explain that this

new world around AI is going to happen

very quickly.

And uh Tesla is the largest AI project

on Earth. Uh I posted that on X, and

Elon liked it, so it must be true.

But it is true if our research is

correct. Uh we believe that um

the entire ecosystem associated with

autonomous

uh taxi networks is going to be worth 8

to 10 trillion dollars in terms of

revenue generation in the next 5 to 10

years. And if you want to put that in

context, the the entire GDP of the world

today is about 130 trillion. So, 10

trillion is going to move the needle.

Tesla are launching their first cyber

taxi, I believe, in Austin in June,

potentially.

Yes, it So, the cyber cabs will launch

next year, but in Austin in June, those

will be Model Ys. And I'm looking to buy

another Model Y because it will in

effect be a cyber cab. Okay. And if I

chose to, I could have my

Model Y drive me to work and then let it

out for the day and earn money on it,

have it pick me up at the end of the

night. And some people will do that, and

Tesla will provide the platform for

that. I think a lot of people don't

realize just how much of the economy is

about driving. Yes.

So, taxis, deliveries, all these kinds

of things. It's a huge Is it the single

I think it's the single biggest employer

in the world. Yes, transportation,

broadly defined. Yes. And And it's not

just on the ground, of course.

As we've studied autonomous taxis

moving forward, we believe the cost of

transportation will come down fairly

dramatically. So,

in the US today, an Uber costs roughly

two to four dollars per mile.

Um at scale, now this may not be for 5

to 10 years, but this is the direction

that Tesla certainly is headed. We

believe that Tesla will be able to offer

a service for 25 cents per mile.

And because of that, we think there will

be much more congestion in the roads.

When you cut the price of something, you

get more of it. And that led us into the

air. And so, we've been studying

studying EVTOLs. Um What's an EVTOL?

EVTOL is an electric vehicle takeoff and

landing.

Like a drone type of

but for for people. Yeah. So we own

Archer in our portfolio. And of course

AI is a part of this new world as well.

Um and it's a part of the defense world

as well as we are trying to save our

soldiers and um

and move out there with autonomous

drones. So autonomous

uh mobility on the ground, in the skies,

ultimately on the water.

So so Tesla. So that's one big We we

think that's going to be the biggest in

the short term in terms of revenue

generation, the biggest application of

AI. We think the most profound

application of AI is going to be in

healthcare.

Because of AI, and this is already

beginning to happen.

Uh

we are able to diagnose

cancer with a blood test in stage one.

Think about that. If you discover cancer

in stage one, you can save most people.

Crazy. Right? And maybe even before

stage one. Why? This is the convergence

of sequencing technologies. So DNA, RNA,

protein sequencing

uh technologies,

and then the third uh technology that is

breakthrough and already making a

difference is CRISPR gene editing. The

convergence of those three technologies

is beginning to cure disease. So uh a

company called CRISPR Therapeutics,

which is one of the largest in our ARKG

fund and in the top 10 in our ARKK fund,

uh has developed a therapy

uh to cure sickle cell disease with and

beta thalassemia. Both of those are

blood-related diseases

with one treatment.

Think about that. Now, the

preconditioning for that is gruesome.

It's It's It involves It's almost like

chemotherapy, uh which is going to

change. Uh but nonetheless, there's huge

demand for it because, you know, these

people go to the emergency room 10 to 20

times per year for blood transfusions to

save their lives.

Of course they're going to go through a

tough regimen. They want to live a more

normal life. Uh so it's already

generating revenue. Both Both of those

are already generating revenue for

CRISPR Therapeutics and a company called

Vertex. So this this

Well, there's three or four different

companies you've mentioned here. Tesla,

the other one was Archer.

Archer is the EVTOL company, yes. So

it's your flying cars, basically.

They're your drone cars. Yes. And CRISPR

and Tesla. So if I start with Tesla, you

were bullish on Tesla. You were making

big predictions about Tesla before

pretty much anyone else out there. I

think in 2015. Mhm. And at the time in

2015, you said that you believed the

stock would get above 4,000, roughly.

Right, on the old stock.

Yeah, on the before the stock split. And

you were right by some significant

margin. Um

I think you predicted it would be 4,000

before the stock stock splits. And I

think at its peak, that equates to about

18,000, maybe 12,000 at its peak. Yes,

well

region. We We We were right about two

early years

or Tesla got to where we believed it

would go two years before most expected.

You know, in 2018 and 19, many people,

as Elon was dis discussing

and describing production hell for the

Model 3,

um many people thought the company would

go bankrupt.

And uh and yet we knew

that if Elon Musk

could create a reusable rocket that

could land on a barge

in the water, he would be able to figure

out how to produce at scale the Model 3.

That was to us a simple um conclusion.

Now, as in hindsight, as we're learning

from Tesla, production hell, and they

themselves were worried. That's why Elon

slept on the floor in the production

factory and just became maniacally

involved, which is how he works uh as uh

So yes, and now our prediction, the

stock is I'm not going to be exactly

right on this, 270 280 uh dollars. Uh

our prediction in five years is 2,600.

And 90% of that valuation comes not from

the electric vehicle, but from this

robotaxi platform. Uh because the

electric car, if you think about it, is,

you know, a one-shot sale. You know,

sell and hope they come back when

they're replacing their car. This

essentially means that we'll be driving

cars that we can

click a button and then then it becomes

an autonomous taxi. So I go on holiday,

I have my my Tesla car at my house. When

I go on holiday, the car turns into a

taxi and starts chauffeuring people

around. It makes me money. But also,

from the consumer's perspective that are

trying to hail a taxi, at any point I

can go on my Tesla app, press a button,

a autonomous car comes to me with no one

driving it, and it takes me to my

destination with no driver at all.

Um and then the recurring revenue model,

I believe, is you subs you subscribe.

probably could It It could be a You

could subscribe to the network or they

could uh

you know, maybe it could be either or,

subscription or ala carte if you don't

think you're going to use it that much.

So

now, when I'm here in the UK and Europe,

many people do not believe what what you

just said. And and they don't because

your regulators have not allowed FSD

here. I think they might I I

Somewhere in Europe, I think they're

beginning to consider it.

Maybe even in the UK here, they have are

considering it.

Um in St. Petersburg, Florida, where

we're based, um

I can go from my house to anywhere,

and

flawlessly the car will take me there.

Now, we still have to sit in the

driver's seat for now, but in June uh or

soon thereafter, when they turn the

system on, if regulators permit. Right

now, we're state by state. I think

that's going to change so that we'll

have federal regulations so that this

can happen a lot faster. One other thing

about Tesla, though, in that 2,600

uh dollar number,

we do not include much for humanoid

robots.

Now,

I

This And and this is happening faster

than we thought.

Um

she And the reason it's happening faster

is humanoid robots,

they are the convergence of the same

three technologies or innovation

platforms as robotaxis.

Robo robots, robotics. So actuators and

so forth, getting them to work.

Energy storage, battery operated. And

AI. Mhm. So Tesla's way ahead of the

game on humanoid robots. And yet we have

very little. Now, Elon thinks that the

humanoid robot business is going to

dwarf the robotaxi business. And we

think he's right, uh but longer term. So

as I mentioned, we expect all in, around

the world, including China, not just

Tesla, but the entire ecosystem, an 8 to

10 trillion dollar market uh in the next

five to 10 years for humanoid robots.

Uh we expect a 26 trillion dollar

revenue market. Now, that's going to be

a little further along. Uh robotaxis

will happen faster, but it may not be as

distant as we were once thinking.

For anyone that doesn't know, humanoid

robots are basically robots that we'll

have in our home and at work. Mhm. So

these are There was a video that I think

um Elon retweeted the other day showing

one of the human humanoid robots

dancing.

Dancing, yes.

Was that real? I was like looking at

that video thinking, surely that's not

real. But he confirmed, I believe, that

it was real.

Yes. Yes. Now, when we went to the

cybercab event,

uh there were some humanoid robots

dancing there, but they were tethered

and they were remotely controlled.

Yeah. Uh now, cybercab, I think, was

About a year ago.

Yes, maybe. So since then,

they've been able to untether them, and

uh I do believe that those that dancing

robot was was um

not tethered and not remotely

controlled. It was quite shocking to see

a robot doing that, because if a robot

can have that dexterity and mobility,

and then you overlay that with the AI

technologies that are accelerating

rapidly, it begs the question.

And the question is quite clear, which

is what about humans? Yes.

Um and just to put a finer,

you know, note on this, um

Elon will not be satisfied until these

robots can thread a needle.

So that's where we're going. What does

that mean for humans? So, you know, the

history of technology

is that it has been a net job creator

throughout history.

But, humanoid robots are getting awfully

close to what we do, right? So, it's a

good question. I I think creativity is a

big part of that, ingenuity and

creativity. And, you know, I think

there's going to be a

they're going to be a

lot of new inventions uh in the future.

So, let's see what those are. But, even

today, there's something called vibe

coding. Have you heard of it?

Okay.

Because we've moved into the world of

natural language programming. What is

vibe coding for someone that doesn't

know? It's

Vibe coding means you know a natural

language. I know We all know a natural

language. Ours is English for the most

part, but it could be any language. Um

we're going to be able to go to chat GPT

or to especially now, they just

launched, I think, last week something

called Codex, Replit, uh and Anthropic's

fantastic for for um

programming. And, we'll say, "This is

what I'm attempting to do." in English

language. And I And I've seen demos of

this just internally. We We're going to

replace some of our software that we're

buying from outsiders and customize it

for us because, you know, we don't have

to buy off the shelf anymore. One size

fits all. I think there's going to be a

lot more customization and

personalization

and creativity explosion here. You know,

it's interesting that this is happening

when the demographic profile of the

developed world is as it is. Uh we have

a very low unemployment rate in the US.

I know the unemployment rates in Europe

and the UK have been dropping

to much lower levels than where where

they were stuck for years. I remember

thinking, "Wow, double digits."

Uh

we have a demographic issue. I mean, if

you if you watch what uh

Elon Musk worries about the most, he he

worries about the population implosion

uh because

Collapse? Uh collapse. Collapse in

population in the developed world um

because we're not uh

uh

we're not producing children above the

fertility rate. We're We are setting up

for a shrinkage with China's going

there, Japan is going there.

And so, we're going to need productivity

uh

productivity to help us if we can't find

human beings.

Uh okay. So, you're So, you're saying

that the ro- robotics and AI could

actually fill the gap that we lose in

terms of productivity because our

society's going to be like an inverted

pyramid. It's going to be more um

elderly people and less young people.

Yes. Yes.

are going to

Yes, absolutely. It's Productivity is

going to be essential. So, as we're

looking at real growth ahead and mhm

when you think about real growth

uh you should be thinking, "Okay,

somebody's benefiting from this." Um and

I'm going to set what I I'm going to set

up the number here uh by describing what

has happened historically. If you look

from 1500

to 1900

and you try and figure out what real GDP

growth was back then, real economic

growth

um as best as uh Brett Winton, our chief

futurist, in consultation with academics

can determine.

It was roughly 0.6%

per year.

And then we had the Industrial

Revolution.

Uh we had

the internal combustion engine,

telephone, electricity.

And for the past 125

years, real GDP growth has been 3%.

And and most li- living standards have

gone up over time. Some more than

others. I know that's a debate, but most

have gone up.

If we as we look forward

based on the five innovation platforms

around which we have centered our

research and investing

if we're right, real GDP growth in the

next five years could accelerate to

7.3%.

And that gives you a sense of uh

the economic uh

activity, wealth generation out there.

And

what when we are presenting to

investors, we are actually presenting to

them not only because they're investors

but because they have children or

grandchildren who need to adapt to this

new world. And our mantra in giving away

our research, which we do

is get on the right side of change. We

also do podcasts.

Um we we try We do a lot of outreach

because we think this is a very

important moment in time.

Uh seize the moment, grab hold of these

new technologies

because that growth rate is more than

twice where we've been. And if you are

on the right side of change we think the

opportunities are going to be enormous.

Uh investment opportunities and job

opportunities. Yeah, I feel like I've I

feel like I'm

I feel like I can't figure out what

how the displacement rate

meets the creation rate.

So, the destruction rate of of current

jobs will meet the creation rate of new

jobs because many of these new jobs I I

guess there's some of them we can't

predict yet. I I understand that. But,

even the ones that we can't predict yet

would need to be inherently

human, i.e. need the skills of a human

for them to be occupied by by humans.

Um so, what category of stuff is that?

Like, my my girlfriend's a breathwork

practitioner. She's upstairs now with 10

women and she's teaching them

breathwork.

Okay. So, she's fine. Yeah? Like, cuz

they're doing that in person, what

whatever. She's fine.

Well, and

maybe she's not if people decide

it on chat GPT. Yeah, on chat GPT. But,

but if they want to be with a group of

women

Yeah. and, you know, learn from an

expert whom they respect. There's as

much the social experience. That's going

to become more important. Relationships

are going to become more important. Many

people in our business

I think are going to be out of jobs

because

uh the business has become really

nothing I I shouldn't be this

disrespectful. It's not quite right.

But, uh at all. Uh but you know, so many

are just hugging benchmarks

uh whether it's S&P 500 or MSCI World or

the Nasdaq that a machine can do that. A

machine can do that easily. And that is

what passive investing is is machines

doing it.

I think in order to earn a place in the

new world, you've got to add a lot of

value, more value than a machine can.

So, in our case, we're saying "Okay,

well, our stocks are not in those

benchmarks." Uh and therefore

you know, they're they're We are doing

original research trying to figure out

who they are and where they are, these

these companies that are going to

transform the world. Why can't AI

replace what you're doing in terms of

So, and we think about that all the

time. So, AI

can

use pattern recognition. It's all based

on history, right? Uh it can use pattern

recognition, maybe, to do what we're

doing.

What are the three characteristics that

define an innovation platform for us?

The most important one is they follow

something called Wright's Law, which

measures the learning curve, how fast

the costs are going to decline

with this new technology. Technology is

deflationary. Costs fall over time and

they're passed through into lower prices

or better performance, one or the other.

Um

that is the most important. A machine

can figure that out, I'm sure. But,

asking the questions uh are going to be

important. Like

there wasn't before 2014 when we started

Arc much on autonomous mobility or

eVTOLs

or, for that matter, AI. AI had become

science fiction. There weren't any

breakthroughs in recent years. But, then

we got some breakthroughs. So, could So,

Wright's Law is the first, figure out

that cost curve decline, and and see how

quickly the technology can prolific

proliferate across sectors. That's the

other criteria criterion here. The

technologies

that we are following are going to cut

across economic sectors and apply uh

to more than one group of people. And

then, the third is that these

technologies serve as launching pads for

new technologies. So, in the case of DNA

sequencing, which was the base

technology we needed that

before CRISPR gene editing

uh could be created. We needed to be

able to understand what was mutating in

the genome, where the programming errors

were, so that gene editing could come in

and edit out those programming errors.

And do you think in 5 10 years from now

that unemployment is going to be higher

or lower?

In 5 or 10 years,

um

let's let's assume we don't have a

policy mistake and and a recession. So

just just steady state,

I think it will be the same or lower.

And most of this is because those baby

boomers are retiring.

Uh they

come out of the employment

They come out of the labor force. And uh

and the generations following them are

smaller. Even now what's happening is

uh we're we're passing through the baby

boom echo, meaning the children of the

baby boom. That cohort was

I don't think it was any bigger than the

baby boom uh

baby boom population. Do you think

there's because of the speed of and the

acceleration of AI the like this the

length of careers has radically reduced

cuz you would go to like you'd go to

school, then you go to university, you

qualify as I know an accountant and

that's like a 10-15 year process. You

get a job as an accountant, you start

working your way up. But now with AI

coming in, these some of these jobs are

being

completely annihilated

extremely quickly. At the same time vibe

coding

Yeah. is booming. So I think what's

going to happen and this will be very

healthy for productivity. We're going to

have a lot more experimentation and

people taking risks on themselves. Uh

and maybe this idea of a corporation as

we know it is going to change radically.

You know, crypto is enabling distributed

autonomous organizations.

Uh just like Bitcoin, there's there's no

no one governing it, right?

The it's a distributed network.

And you know, let's see how these do and

how vibe coding

and AI integrate into the crypto I and

I'm going to stop calling it crypto

because it should be called digital

assets world, which legitimizes it more.

Crypto sounds nefarious. Digital assets

is where you know, more than

young people and uh I'll say

young people are spending more than half

of their discretionary their free time

online.

And so property ownership online is

becoming more important. It's it's being

legitimized by the way people are

spending their time. On this point of

robotics and AI, your your biggest

position I believe is Tesla, isn't it in

your fund?

Yes. Um

but obviously Elon decided that he

wanted to go into politics.

He wanted to do

Oh, Elon. the Department of Government

Efficiency called Dodge. So teaming up

with Trump to try and eliminate

government waste. Now as an investor

Mhm.

you must

not love that. Well, the I I have two um

I have Cuz it did impact

two points of view.

performance of the company. Do you know

I have I drive a Tesla when I go to

America and it was the first time ever

on the last trip to America in January.

I live in LA now. Oh. Um what what I'm

driving my you know, my cybertruck. It's

the full self-driving. It's incredible.

But it was the first time ever I

thought, [ __ ] I like I could be

attacked. So I probably shouldn't get a

cybertruck. I should probably get

something else cuz I had all these

reports of people being attacked.

Mhm. And so it was quite interesting to

hear in the earnings report which I

listened to that there's been this

decline in revenue in profitability in

vehicle sales growth etc. in Q1 of this

year

Mhm. which I think even Elon in that in

that earnings call highlights is a

consequence of him becoming political.

Yes. Uh I think that surprised him. Uh

um

so

I have many thoughts about this. Our

government has become so bloated, it is

scary. And uh our indebtedness is

growing.

And if we want to remain the reserve

currency of the world we're at risk of

of losing it and and on our tail is the

whole

digital asset world, right? So

um

government spending is taxation.

It's either taxation that's going to

happen immediately or will happen in the

future

or will happen through inflation, which

is the most regressive tax at all. So I

think his the the sentiment was was

right in terms of you know, getting in

there and seeing what technology can do

for the government, which is really

what's happening. I'm watching it in the

FDA how they're starting to use AI. It's

phenomenal what's happening.

Uh so

the question I usually get So I I'm very

happy that uh

half of the solution is understanding

the problem, that someone is in there

with that focus and determination. He of

course has said he's stepping away uh

this month as a matter of fact to spend

more time with his companies. Which you

must be happy about.

Well, of course I'm happy about it, but

I I have with the exception of this

political dynamic, I don't think

that Elon

uh not being there on a day-to-day basis

is what has caused the problem in the

first quarter. It was much more macro.

We had a negative quarter in real GDP

growth in the first quarter. So macro

which is hitting everyone and the

overlay of this political dynamic. The

news cycle, thank goodness, moves fast

and so we'll we'll be through that I

think. And by the way, there are news

reports even this weekend saying those

who were feeling about him you know,

as it relates to Dodge and you know, one

party are having a change of heart

because tax rates are going to come down

because we're being more disciplined on

the on the government spending side.

Elon's way of

managing his companies is to attract the

best and the brightest, not only

scientists, engineers but also business

people.

Uh they these are people who want to

solve the hardest problems in the world.

Um he sets a timeline

that seems uh reasonable to him for

milestones to occur.

And he doesn't interfere unless they

start missing those milestones or the

timing of those milestones. Then he gets

involved and that's where you hear he'll

go in and he'll just fire people

wholesale and you know, and and you

know, get the program going again. And

he's he's done that certainly at Tesla.

He's done that at all of his companies.

And so he's really

troubleshooter-in-chief.

Once he understands and has set a

strategy

he then becomes troubleshooter-in-chief.

Have you met him? Oh yes, we did

actually. Our

first podcast with him was in 2019. Oh I

saw that podcast.

production hell. Yeah. And uh we were so

happy. So as you know, we have a social

strategy, so we push our research out

through social media as we give it away

or as we're evolving it. And uh he liked

a piece of research that Tasha Keeney

had put out on autonomous back then. And

I was on a phone call I couldn't get

off, but I heard this whooping and

screaming through the office and I I I

thought it sounded good. It wasn't an

emergency, so I I didn't have to leave

that call, but I got out. I said, "What

happened?" "Elon." And I said, "Okay,

ask him if we can do a podcast." And we

were there the next week. Oh,

incredible. Yeah. What do you think of

him as a entrepreneur?

I think he's the Thomas Edison of our

age in terms of uh in terms of his

um

in innovative ingenuity and

I also think having met him a number of

times, I think he's a very good person.

He wants to do the right thing. If I had

to say one thing, he wants to do the

right thing to transform

the lot of most of humanity. And he

started

uh with Tesla, SpaceX and Tesla

Tesla, you know, was a an environmental

move. Which I think a lot of people

attacking his cars who are probably very

um

supportive of the environmental

movement, uh they they've forgotten.

Sending

uh

a rocket to Mars and with humanoid

robots and ultimately people um he

thinks will transform

life on Earth as well because as we've

learned from space history uh what we

learn about material science and

technologies that help us break through

into these very difficult or problems to

solve is going to help us here on Earth

as well. Uh so I think he's a very good

person and wants to do the right thing.

That if I had to describe him, that's

what I say other than genius of our

time.

I often wonder, right? You know, cuz

he's had such a impact on the world in

many, many ways through the companies he

started. I think the uh the biggest risk

really is just his own his own health.

Doesn't seem to sleep much.

You know though, he he says that he does

sleep. I think he he he he recommends, I

think, if I'm right on this, getting 7

hours sleep a night.

Uh

uh and

yes, but when when he is focused,

uh you know it. And I mean, people even

look and they they There were many

pictures of him, whether it was

standing, you know, with other policy

makers,

and then he zones into something you

know he's zoned in and thinking about

only that and a problem that he wants to

solve. So, You've invested what, just

over 2 billion in Tesla? Let's see. So,

it would be roughly, yes. In that

region?

Mhm.

Bitcoin. Mhm. You invested in Bitcoin

very, very early. What was the the first

price what you bought Bitcoin for in I

think it was 2015?

Yes. It was in

um the summer of 2015.

Uh we got in at roughly $250.

Uh today it's $104,000,

I think, roughly. So, we did get in very

early.

And we knew we were onto something

uh really when people were making fun of

us saying, "Okay, that's a marketing

trick. You're you're new to our business

and you know, new to our to the new fund

world and uh you're trying to attract

attention." And we were thinking, "Wow,

they have no idea how much research

we've done on this."

And Art Laffer,

uh my professor, again, from USC, we had

him uh

we had him read our first white paper on

Bitcoin.

Bitcoin, could it serve the three roles

of money? So, means of exchange, what we

use every day uh to to buy things,

a store of value, uh like gold,

and unit of account. Would prices be

quoted in terms of Bitcoin?

Chris Bradysky was our first analyst on

Bitcoin,

wrote the paper, Art Reddit,

and you know, from a added to it

enormously in terms of economic theory,

which was great for us.

And then he said to us, he said, "This

is what I've been waiting for since the

US closed the gold window in 1971.

A rules-based

global

monetary system

like Bretton Woods under the gold

exchange standard."

And I said, "Art, that's a very big

idea.

Uh how big is it?"

And he said, "Well, how big is the the

monetary base of the US?

Uh back then it was 4 and 1/2 trillion.

And Bitcoin's market cap or network

value was 6 billion."

And I said,

"Okay, that's a very big idea."

And we were trying to get it into our

portfolios. Regulators were hesitant and

but I bought it right then for for

myself and haven't sold it and I'm very

happy with it. You bought it for

yourself personally?

Personally, because we couldn't buy it.

$250.

Uh so, we couldn't buy it back then, but

we finally got through the regulatory

process and we were able to put the New

York Stock Exchange said, "Okay, you can

put a 1% position in the portfolio."

And it was of a grantor trust called

GBTC.

So, we did. And we just never sold it.

They didn't tell us we had to keep it at

at 1%. So, Oh, it's risen to be more.

Oh, yes, it it ballooned. And what is it

about Bitcoin that you believe

was and is still a a good investment

opportunity for the average person? Yes.

So,

at this at this price, it's about a $2

trillion uh market

uh market cap.

And so, halfway to that original 4 and

1/2 trillion,

but our price target actually has

expanded since then.

Um because it's not just a global

monetary system.

It is a new asset class.

And that's a very big idea as well. What

makes a new asset class? And we haven't

had one truly since

equities in the 1600s. When you say a

new asset class, you mean a completely

new category of

of funding companies, yes. Right?

So, an asset class would be something

like technology is an asset class,

right? No, it would be like stocks,

bonds, commodities,

real estate.

This is a new asset class and most

people will agree with that. We we did a

study on it.

If this asset does not perform like

other assets, in other words, it

provides diversification for funds.

And because it is behaving differently,

institutions have to consider it

uh because they're competing against

each other and if one puts it in,

they all know they're competing against

each other. So, others have to consider

it.

And uh we believe that part of the

opportunity has not been tapped. And

just to put some numbers on this, right

now,

we're approaching 20 million Bitcoin

outstanding. Which means the number of

Bitcoin that

uh have been minted

over time

uh by Bitcoin miners. So, there's 21

million in total, right? There will be

at the end of the minting process, 21

million. So, we have only 1 million to

go. Yeah. Uh 1 million would be

what is that?

That would be a hundred billion dollars

worth, a little more than that, right

now. So, just for someone that might not

know much about Bitcoin, Bitcoin is

mined using computers and so far they've

mined 20 million of them and there's 1

million of them left to mine. Mhm. Yeah.

So, institutions

really just started considering Bitcoin

cuz the SEC gave the

uh the the green light

uh to Bitcoin with uh the the approval

of the spot Bitcoin ETF in January of

last year.

And it takes a while for institutions to

do their research and and commit.

Uh and so, they're just now committing

and there's only a hundred billion

dollars

of new ma- market cap uh that is going

to be created, whereas they have

trillions of dollars under management.

Um and so, we think there will be a lot

of incremental demand and uh to satisfy

a lot of that demand, someone's going to

have to sell.

Which means the price goes up.

Which yeah, if people don't want to sell

because Bitcoin's been awfully good. And

our forecast, right now it's um

right now the Bitcoin's around a

hundred, a hundred five thousand. Our

forecast

uh for 2030

is 1.5 million dollars.

And we do that uh

uh

the building blocks for that, the three

biggest building blocks

are institutional, which has barely

started,

uh store of value or digital gold. Young

people

are much more

uh

comfortable with digital gold than gold.

So, on the institutional side, that

means institutions, investment

institutions start investing in it. Mhm.

Young people start investing it in it as

a way to save and store their money.

Yes. Yes.

And then uh the

the the the the very important use case

that many people do not discuss is how

important Bitcoin and stablecoins, which

are backed by US Treasuries,

are going to become to the emerging

markets.

Uh in emerging markets, many of them are

at the whim of policy makers who uh

show no discipline in fiscal or monetary

policy. And so, they they're used to

going through booms and busts and booms

and bailed out by the IMF and they need

an insurance policy. So, if you're in

Venezuela, you need a currency that's

going to be stable.

Exactly.

Well, this Bitcoin is

uh so, stablecoins are stable vis-à-vis

uh the dollar.

Uh Bitcoin is more of an investment

because

it does appreciate over time. Now, you

go through it's volatile, no question,

and that's the first thing people have

to know about it. Uh but it is becoming

less volatile as more and more

investors hold it. So, you think Bitcoin

will potentially

multiply in value by 15 times in the

next 5 years? Mhm.

Wow, that'd be pretty crazy. It's a very

big idea because it is a new asset

class, it does represent a global

monetary system unlike any other digital

asset out there.

Um it is backed by the largest computer

network in the world. The the layer one,

which is the base layer, has not been

hacked. Think about that, since 2009

when it was released, not been hacked.

How many how how many systems can say

that?

And it is a technology. It is native to

the internet. And again,

digital assets or any Bitcoin, Ether,

Solana,

all of them exist because they're vying

to be the native currencies to the

internet. And to to enable smart

contracts

and really transform the financial

services industry. Why did you invest in

Coinbase?

Coinbase is um

an exchange

for for digital assets.

And uh and increasingly derivatives.

It has just It has gone global.

It just bought Deribit, which is the

largest options uh exchange out there.

Uh and it owns a futures. So, it's

really going after uh

the derivatives market where there's a

huge amount of activity, which is

fantastic because it's all legitimizing

digital assets.

And it is the most regulatory compliant

exchange in the world. Um

Binance is another major exchange, but

has had more run-ins with regulators

around the world and really hasn't been

allowed into the United States.

It also wants to become

part of the new payments infrastructure.

And so is evolving strategies that way

as well.

Um we've gotten to know management very

well. They fought the fight against

regulators in a magnificent way, and

they have educated policy makers um

importantly, who understand that this

innovation we almost lost this

innovation to the rest of the world

because of our regulatory stance.

Uh they've helped policy makers

understand that, "Hey,

you know, this this infrastructure is

what developers did not build into the

internet in the early '90s cuz they

didn't know finance or commerce would

take place. That's all this is. It's

that simple, right?" So, if I'm trying

to invest in just to summarize it, if

I'm trying to invest in AI, that you'll

keep positions there and you'll keep

thoughts on companies like Tesla. I

heard you invest in Twilio.

Uh we we had invested in Twilio. They

had a uh they had a management turnover,

so we moved away from that. But uh

Palantir Palantir?

Yes, Palantir is a platform as a service

company, which we think uh is not only

going to help governance move

governments move into the digital age,

like our defense department, and now

it's moving into other departments, but

also these huge huge enterprises

because it's not forcing them to rip and

replace anything. They'll build on top

of whatever technology infrastructure is

there and over time just use usurp the

role of the legacy technologies. So,

very important company we think in uh

the digital age. It's had a very big

run. We have taken profits and, you

know, while it was having a big run,

Nvidia was selling off. It was down more

than 50%. So, we put some of our

Palantir proceeds in back into Nvidia.

Is there anything else in the AI bucket

when you're thinking about stocks? Well,

when you're thinking about uh

chip companies in particular,

uh TSM is the platform for chip

manufacturing. It doesn't matter who

wins. We We do think there are going to

be many more competitors to Nvidia.

Nvidia is still number one. Have you

heard about Grok?

Oh, yes, Grok we are invested in in our

um

in our private fund. Oh, okay. So, just

for people that might be confused. Do

you mean Grok with a Q? Uh yes, that's

that's in our private fund. We own We do

own Grok. And that's a very important

company on the inference side of um

of the equation. I've invested in Grok

as well.

Yeah. I should probably disclaim that.

Well, I think I think you're going to do

very well. Um

So, TSM though is where all the chip

manufacturers go uh for production. It

is the most sophisticated manufacturer

of chips uh in the world. Uh there is

geopolitical risk there. Most of its

business is in Taiwan. It is

diversifying into uh

certainly into the US, and I think even

into Europe. Uh so, I think uh that will

continue to be a very important company

as well. So, what are the What are you

What's your top 10?

In terms of public stocks that anybody

can invest in.

If you had to give me your top 10. So,

I'd have to give you and they're listed

on our website, and I won't go in order,

I'm sure, but of course, Tesla,

Coinbase,

uh Robinhood, uh Roku is uh an operating

system for connected TVs, highly

misunderstood stock. CRISPR

Therapeutics, which uh is

Gene editing?

Gene editing for sickle cell disease and

uh beta thalassemia.

Uh Palantir, I think I've mentioned uh

in the AI software space. Archer just

moved into the top 10. It's the EVTOL

company, which and it also signed a

deal, an exclusive deal on both sides,

which was quite impressive, uh with

Anduril, which Anduril, which is the um

most sophisticated defense tech play uh

and is growing like gangbusters. So, so

that's terrific. Shopify,

uh which is a shopping platform back end

and really using uh AI. Roblox? Oh,

that's the one we're missing. Roblox.

Roblox.

is a game, right? Yes, it's a

user-generated gaming company.

Uh the fascinating and it's also a

social platform.

Uh it started for children younger than

13 years old. And what's interesting

about it is

they've stayed with it because 60% of

its user base now is above 13.

Which is very interesting. It's the

largest user-generated

uh

um

content provider out there.

And what is fascinating about it is I

know one of my friend's daughter has

started her own dress shop on Roblox,

and what she doesn't understand is that

she's she's learning about business, but

she's also learning how to code,

especially in this new vibe coding

world. So, I think it's going to be a

very important company going forward.

Uh the the interesting thing about

gaming

and technology transitions is that it is

the only entertainment median medium

that has not fallen apart with

technology transitions.

Mhm.

Um it has actually grown because those

who love their games from 25 years ago

still play them. It's grown with each

technology revolution. So, uh and

user-generated content in gaming is

um the next big thing.

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I will speak to you then.

If you had a thousand dollars to invest

Mhm. and you had to invest it somewhere,

where would you be investing it?

Well,

and how would you be like the general

philosophy towards wealth creation at

such a stage if you had a thousand

dollars? How would you be thinking about

creating wealth for yourself?

A couple of things.

Averaging into

um

either an ETF

What's an ETF? ETF, exchange-traded

fund. So, it treats a group of stocks

like one stock. Mhm. So, ARKK

is

it's nearly it's 35 36 stocks,

but you can buy them

by purchasing ARKK. And you can do that

on your mobile phone by downloading

do it on your mobile phone.

of different apps that allow you to just

buy that one ETF, which means you own 35

stocks. Yes. And

And your team are basically choosing

what those 35 stocks are

Yes. based on your research. Right. And

ARKK are our highest conviction stocks,

uh and they they they offer an exposure

to all of the innovation platforms that

we've talked about. Whereas ARKI here in

Europe is focused primarily on

artificial intelligence and robotics.

Because we think that convergence is

going to be pretty explosive. What you

don't get there

uh and you do get in ARKK,

we also have in another very focused

fund, ARKG, which is really health care

applications of AI. Um and and other

health care other health care names that

we think uh are going to be pretty

transformative in the new world as

regulators really understand how

important AI is going to become to

discovery,

uh research, trials, development, uh to

diagnostic tests, and to curing disease.

Another question popped up, which is

about Ethereum and these other

cryptocurrencies. Do you invest in any

of these these others? Yes, we have uh

we have Well, in our public funds, we've

put them. I I don't think we can own

them here in the UK yet, but in the in

the US, uh we have them in um

some of our funds, both of them. Mhm.

They're key to the financial services

re- revolution. So,

uh to get people to understand and feel

comfortable with that, uh we don't call

it the crypto revolution. It's the

digital assets revolution, and it's

simply the finternet, the financial

internet. Okay, so that So, we do. We

do. And do you believe Are you more

bullish on the price potential of

Bitcoin than Ethereum?

Yes, we think Bitcoin is the biggest

idea. It serves the three three

revolutions. Global monetary system,

they do not.

Um

New asset class, they are part of a new

asset class, but Bitcoin's going to be

the biggest. And new technology, it's

the most secure

uh blockchain technology out there.

What about all these other Solana and

all these other So, Ether and Solana, so

the big three are the are those are the

the big three. Um and we think they'll

all be successful, all three of them.

Bitcoin the most. We're very interested

in stablecoins, but that's just like

cash. Uh and you know, there are

millions of crypto assets out there. We

think most of them die. Is there any way

to invest in stablecoins?

Like how do you invest them in in the

stablecoin?

right now, it is through Coinbase. They

have a deal with Circle.

Um any any revenue that Circle

generates, it's it's it's stablecoin is

USDC.

Yeah. Any revenue, they split 50/50

uh in US.

Uh Circle itself has announced that it

is going public, and so we're looking

forward to that.

And what's what's the the sort of

psychology or mentality one has to adopt

to be a good investor?

Depends what you've bought. If you buy a

strategy like ours, which would be in

the aggressive growth strategy,

put it in you know, averaging in over

time, just like with Bitcoin as I

mentioned earlier.

Uh averaging in over time

What does averaging in mean? Averaging

in means, you know, buy a little every

month, maybe every payday.

I think one of my daughters was buying

Bitcoin every week, but not a Bitcoin.

She couldn't do that. A Satoshi, you

know, so

And

close your eyes. Like you're this is a

long-term investment. If we're right, uh

according to our analysis. Now, you This

is our research, our analysis, no

promises. We can't do that, but

according to our research, the

technologies around which we have

centered our research

uh and which have focused our

investments,

they we believe will go up more than

tenfold in the next five to ten years.

And that's how much explosive growth we

have ahead of us as these technologies

converge

and create incredible opportunities for

investors.

And you know, I'm hearing a lot of

invest a lot of people um as they get

into investing, of course they have

their day jobs, but once they have

accrued enough,

you know, they're making choices about

dialing down their day jobs and spending

more time investing. You asked, what are

some of the jobs of the future going to

be? I think individual investors

are going to be providing for themselves

if they are investing on the right side

of change. So, if you're right, that

means that by investing your fund, I'd

make a thousand percent return roughly.

Yes, no promises, but this is all based

on research, and you can find it in our

big ideas.

Uh big ideas 2025 is on our website,

ark-invest.com.

Uh and you can find a lot more

of information about our funds on

ark-funds

uh dot com. And I should probably say

this is not in investing advice.

It is not, and and I want to make sure

Do your own research. You can lose all

of your money. Yes. You can lose all of

it if you decide to do any of these

things. But that's why we put ark-invest

separate from the fund site, because

that's just research. Learn. Learn what

you're investing in, or learn why we've

invested uh the the way we have. You

know, that's that's what we do all day

long is we try and help Well, first of

all, we're doing the research. We are

making the investments, but I think one

of the most important things we do

is communicate what we're doing and why

we're doing it.

What do you think of Trump tariffs,

everything that's going on in America at

the moment? What's, you know, for the

average person, should they be

concerned? Are you bullish? Do you think

Trump's got it right? If you look at

what happened to the equity market when

Trump was elected, the stock market. Uh

yes, the stock market. It went crazy to

the upside, as did our strategy.

And why?

The promise was

deregulation, and that I think is

underestimated uh how important it is,

because we're strangling in regulation.

It's just

This is not our DNA. We We got to get

out from under this.

Lower taxes,

lo- lower interest rates is what he

wants, of course. Um and lower tariffs.

What he didn't tell us

was exactly how he was going to go about

that process.

And it has it has felt chaotic.

And I've had to go out and explain

what's going on, try to explain what's

going on.

And I I have to tell you, it scared me

silly to see what was going on, because

I knew that businesses

were paralyzed, and that we could have a

mess on our hands.

And I certainly com- communicated

through my channels. Art communicated

through his channels. In fact, I think

in one publication, he said, I have

never been more scared in my career.

We were trying to really get into

Trump's head, and and I know President

Trump listens to Art, but he also

listens to a lot of other people. One of

whom was Peter Navarro,

who seemed to have

a hold on Trump when it came to tariffs.

And yet, when I saw Treasury Secretary

Bessant really push aside Navarro, and

that could only happen with Trump, I

knew we were going to be okay. I knew we

were going to be okay, because

throughout all of this chaos,

I think what he is trying to do is not

only get tariffs on the US down

throughout the world,

but maybe more important, get non-tariff

trade barriers down. Like for example,

I didn't even know the UK would not

accept our beef or ethanol.

Well, Mhm.

now you're accepting our beef and

ethanol. I I don't know if I don't know

if people in the supermarkets will buy

it, but anyway, this was but other

countries much many many more non-tariff

trade barriers. And so he is just trying

to bust that up, you know, make it more

visible.

You know, for example, Canada, I think

they charged a 250% tariff on our milk.

And one of President Trump's promises

was to take care of the farmers. Okay?

That's why you see the rhetoric around

Canada. Now, do I agree with his style?

I would never do it that way. I'd never

do it that way. I and it was

unfathomable, you know, for me because

he is sensitive to business and he must

have known that everything was going to

stop.

And

but he also knows that he has to sound

crazy for other people to take him

seriously. And he has and people have to

believe he will do crazy things in order

for people to take him seriously. And he

does do crazy things. So, do you think

it's going to work out? I do. You do?

And I think the stock market is

beginning to smell it.

If I if I just had to invest in one

stock right now, what stock would you

recommend I invest in?

Okay, well, I have to give you our Your

portfolio. So, it'd be Tesla.

It would be Tesla if I if I had to give

you one stock. Okay, interesting.

Because think about it. It is it is a

convergence

among three of our major platforms. So,

robots, energy storage, AI.

And it's not stopping with robo-taxis.

There's a story beyond that with

humanoid robots. And our $2,600 number

has nothing for humanoid robots. We just

thought it'd be an investment period and

you know, the re

But I think he's going to start

generating not only productivity gains

internally,

but revenues from humanoid robots. What

are you concerned about?

In terms of the way that the world is

going and everything that's happening.

What are the things that keep you up at

night? I've got many of concerns, so

got many unanswered questions and

worries about how things might play out,

but keen to hear yours.

I am such an optimist. I really do have

to dig down deeply. If you'd asked me

this a few weeks ago, I would have said,

you know, this tariff situation is going

to blow the global economy up if we're

if we're not careful. So, I'm much more

settled about that right now.

I'd have to say I am concerned

that there are going to be people caught

out

um by these new technologies and for

whatever reason not willing to adapt

because there going to be huge

opportunities if they do.

And so one of the reasons we give away

our research, you know, I'm very honored

to do a podcast like this is to get that

word out.

There is so much information available.

You can just go to our site and listen

to our podcast. And if anything inspires

you, go for it because it's going the

opportunities are going to be enormous.

When you say you're concerned people

might get caught out? Caught out in

you know, disrupted industries. I mean,

we think the whole transportation

industry is going to be disrupted. Um we

think retail as we know it going to be

disrupted as we are

Retail is in like shops and stuff and

Yes, although if they adapt with more

social personal experiences, I think

that anything physical you'll want to

have a social dynamic associated with

it. But in terms of what I think is

going to happen to retail is we're going

to have our personal shopping assistants

and they're going to they're going to

anticipate what we want, which I can't

wait. I hate shopping. Uh anticipate

what we want uh or basically flag

something that they know we would like

if we would knew it were available. And

they'll be disintermediating

all of the traditional sources because

they can go anywhere in the world. Um so

just think about almost every sector is

going to be disrupted. Healthcare is

going to be disrupted enormously, I

think.

For the better. For the better, but

those who are wedded to doing things the

old way are probably going to be

disrupted, you know?

Yeah, that is my concern as well.

And and just how we handle that as a

society.

But I think if we can help people

understand

that they have a lot of control over

this

if they're willing to learn and dream

and use their imaginations.

Not everybody is though, as you know.

Yes, but they have to do it for their

children at least, right? If we took the

general population in the London and

said, "100 people, how many of you

understand what AI is?" Or "How many of

you use ChatGPT?" We'd have a certain

percentage, maybe I don't know, 50% or

more. If I went to

the countryside Yes.

and I stopped a lovely person shopping

at in the local village and said, "Do

you use ChatGPT?"

It'd probably be significantly lower

percentage. They be they they wouldn't

care about that. What is that? Whatever.

Um I I wo- wonder about the inequality

of like

education, but just initiative and how

those that really do have a proclivity

to lean in and to experiment and to mess

around and to learn

because maybe there's an incentive

because they work in a city and their

employer is asking them to or be off to

the races with this disruptive

technology. And there's just like a lot

of the rest of society, of middle

America and the countrysides and those

types of people who

are just not even going to see it

coming.

But that's why we're out there. And the

the important word that you used was

initiative because I really think uh you

know, when people hear the word

inequality,

uh

they like to blame something, right?

There will be no reason for this. I'm

sure someone's going to come back at me

for saying that, but I I'm of course

there are people who who we have to help

along the way. No question about it. But

for those who are healthy and uh are

listening to this podcast

and are saying

uh you know, I don't I don't know

exactly what she's talking about, but

I'm going to start reading up on some of

these

new ways of doing things and make sure

to at least understand it.

I think within that kind of initiative,

they'll find it. They just will find it.

There's going to be so much opportunity.

It's going to be so exciting. And I

think

again, creativity and you know,

especially young people using their

imaginations, you know, they're they're

not held back by any preconceived

notions. So, I ask all the questions I

ask because I'm trying to like solve

little question marks I have in my head

about the future. And it's really

difficult at this time to see around the

corner because so much is changing so

quickly. And there's all of these

converging technologies as you described

like robotics and AI. And then when I

put robotics and AI together, you're

like, "Fuck."

Do you know what I mean? Cuz I go like

there's like I keep coming back to this

question of like, "What am I going to

do?" And not in You know what's good

about that? You know what's really good

about that?

That will motivate you.

It does.

Of course it does. It's great. It's

great.

me to ask people like you the question

17 times in a row.

But it's a real point cuz I run

businesses. We have at our headquarters,

which is around the corner, it's about

25,000 square foot office. We have, you

know, hundreds of people in that

building. And I'm thinking about the

roles that we're hiring for and I'm

we're now looking at them through the

lens of agentic AI, so AI agents. And

And then if I overlay that with robotics

and AI,

you know, I'm going, "Oh, there's what

roles

would we need to hire in the future?"

Because

theoretically

like can you name a single role in a

media company that would when I'm

talking about in the robotics era that

would really need to be done by a human?

I guess other than one could say

human-to-human sales

would still have some kind of element of

human touch to them. You know though, I

mean, we've learned a lot from the

ancient game of Go. Yeah. So,

you've heard about AlphaGo, which was uh

Alphabet, Google.

Um

basically devising a program to compete

against the Go champions. Go is much

more complicated than chess. Yeah, it's

like a game a board game, basically.

Right.

Uh so, I think the the champion of the

world at the time was a South Korean.

And he was sure he was going to beat

this machine.

Well, the machine beat beat him.

And he was crestfallen.

And

then he got his

chutzpah,

to use a New York word, back. And

he said, "Wait a minute.

I'm going to start playing against

machines."

And so now

he's playing against machines. His game

is so much better that when he competes

against humans, and those competitions

are the more important ones.

Right? When he competes against other

human beings, the machine has kept him

as his champion. And of course,

everyone's using the machine. So, we're

all

we're going to artificial intelligence

But he still can't beat a machine, can

he? He still can't beat the best machine

in the world. No, he can't. And and But

I mean, he can occasionally. But but

people don't want to go see machines

competing against machines. I get that

in because human humans like human error

and they like to be able to relate and

to aspire. But as it relates to the

world of work, the incentive is

productivity. And my

my humanoid robot isn't going to get

sick, and it's going to have a PhD in

everything. So

I don't want to see a human failing at

their desk.

Right. Oh, right, right, right, right,

right, right. But then you you're your

robot and your AI is really focused on

the past, right? That's what it's

ingested, It can make predictions there

based on that past.

Pattern recognition.

how my brain works, right? Like a neural

network.

but

that's why we chose the word disruptive.

Disruptive means the traditional world

order and patterns therefore that

you know, the the robots and others will

recognize is going to change.

Right?

Sorry, what does that mean? Is it So,

what when we're doing our research we

have a white sheet of paper. There's no

history for this. Right? And so, we're

doing a lot of original research. So, AI

machines might use our research as that

cuz we put it out there. But it is

think differently to you to a human

though? In terms of is I thought the

human brain was building, you know,

predicting essentially something based

on lots of information. And AI is