I was lying a very long time because

Society wasn't ready to hear what I had

to say but I will be honest with you I

was H record breaker history maker

Arsenal's record goal scorer throughout

my career I must have been in depression

did I do something about it no but to

understand the person that I became you

have to understand what happened early

when I was young I didn't see a lot of

love affection hugging my dad the first

time he took me in his arms said this

baby will be an amazing football player

from that point I was programmed to

succeed my dad took control of my body

and it was tough one day we played the

game I was 13 years old we won a game 60

I scored six goals but it was always

what I didn't do you missed that control

you missed that cross you missed that

this you missed that that and it can

make you or break you I decided it was

going to make

me I wasn't scared of failing you're

going to fail that's what shapes you but

I was more scared not to pleas people

even when you were playing at Arsenal

and you were winning golden boots and

invincibles you were still trying to

please your dad yeah but were you

happy so long you think what you're

doing is to please off football money we

have a roof but then I was about to

leave again my girlfriend the kids

everybody starts to cry and for the

first time I realized they were crying

for me not the football player not the

accolades and I felt human if I was

watching you what would I have seen me

crying almost every day but it was the

young T what was he crying

for quick one this is really really

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[Music]

deal to understand a man I

know that you have to understand his

context especially his early context I

think we're all products of our earliest

context I certainly am and having spent

a very small amount of time with you I

know you are as well what is that early

context that people need to know to

understand the man that sits in front of

me

today I will second what you just said I

think need to understand the struggles

of someone to know exactly what the

person is and uh and what a person is

about are so many so many things that we

can we can start with well I grew up in

a in a modest household if I would if I

can say that for me at the time it was

the it was the best because I couldn't

compare it to anything I grew up with

with

diversity I grew up with there is food

on the table so there therefore I love

you I take care of you so therefore I

love you it wasn't so much

uh communicated by Uggs by I Love You by

a well

done more often than not it was more

something that I didn't do that was

raised um being from the

Caribbean my my parents came early to

France which

they call it the continent it is still

France because they are they are French

islands guadaloop and martinque but we

always say going to France it was the

dream for that that era to go to the

continent to go to France to have a

better life uh to try to make sure that

we could have a better life but when

when you when you grew up there you know

you

you you dream of going to France because

it's better because it's it's like in

bracket the American dream which

actually it is the French Dream I'm sure

it was the same for you when you arrive

in in in uh in

France make make sure you don't make any

mistakes make sure they don't come to us

and say oh those guys from the Caribbean

you know they just arrive and you know

so don't don't don't speak real make

sure you speak French well don't do this

don't do that we need to fit in we don't

want to get sent back to to the

Caribbean we want to keep the house that

we have we want to keep the job that we

have always that fear of getting sent

back not so much for me because I I was

born in France but they always had that

chip on their shoulder of make sure you

you don't make any mistakes I don't want

anyone to say that my son was this my

son was that don't bring any problem you

know we we came here to work we came

here to have a better life so please do

not do not spoil it kind of so you

always feel like you need to fit in and

not and not and not uh belong I was uh I

was kind of heavy at one point as a as a

as a young kid you know but that's

that's the way it was you listen to it

you you grow up with it um and you you

just try to to to fit in at one point

what was life like outside of the four

walls that you lived in outside of the

home the streets you grew up

on just a normal neighborhood if I can

use the word normal neighborhood with

everything that goes with with it uh

gangs

drugs

fight happiness

diversity different food different

religions so I always said was the best

for me to understand what the world was

how does it compare to the streets that

your kids are growing up

on what

street the

garden the grass no concrete there now

Jing aside you can't compare it man I

mean but if I had to do it again I would

do it again I'll do it again because he

made me he you know is very diff I can't

even start to even compare anything I

did everything for them not to grow up

there because because you don't want to

grow up there

why

because I didn't want them to go through

that it's weird for me to say that it's

it's kind of a cliche thing to say that

you don't really want to grow up there

if you ask anyone when they can compare

it they're like oh no it's better to to

grow up there it's better to grow up

there but for me like I said I'll do it

again because it made me understand a

lot of things

acceptance uh living with others to

coexist uh in in any way by the way what

you think of what you what you

wear uh what you what how you see the

world for me you know I I couldn't care

less that you know that you know in my

in my class the same thing was syal

malan

Caribbean uh North African Asian Italian

polish Roots Portuguese Roots I couldn't

care less about what you thought or not

I'm like this is my friend do you know

what I mean and and and I traveled also

without

traveling like I went around the world

staying in the same place had all the

food in the world staying in the same

place so this is why I would say it's

kind of a cliche thing to say you don't

want to grow up there but what it gives

you also a what it gives you is second

to none for me in terms

of what you need in order to comprehend

how the world is you described it before

as growing up and only seeing

cement yeah concrete I grew up it's kind

of weird for me to say that Stephen but

if I don't see concrete for more than a

week I don't feel well I know people

like country and Country Life and

Country Life and and and and the seea if

I don't see my my if I don't see

concrete I don't feel well I grew up in

I grew up in it some people will tell

you that I can't see it anymore I need I

need the sea I need I need whatever for

me I'm I'm happy in a town concrete

that's where I grew up uh but yes you

can encounter problems there a lot but

I'll be honest with you I was lucky

enough

I have older brother that's seven years

older than me so his friend him used to

protect me because he was I have the

same age as my

town so I was born in

77 my town was buil in

77 so just imagine my brother arriving

in this town is older than me was the

first one I had a

job the first one obviously I had money

the first one I had a car so it was well

respected

I know it sounds stupid now to say that

but it was well respected so I always

stayed away from from trouble especially

with my parents but also I don't know if

you if you had that but when you have a

certain gift and the guys in the

neighborhood know that you might do

something you're also protected

interesting because they leave this one

alone might he might do something he's

good at football you know so

let him be kind of interesting so had my

brother that also yeah because when you

play football and and you're from a town

and like hey little kid it's from out

out town you know so you have a kind of

a Unwritten protection m in a way

because you might do

it you know you might you might succeed

going back inside your home what was

what was life like inside the walls of

your home I always think that we learn

you you kind of gave a hint to it there

we learn emotion inside the walls of our

home I certainly didn't because there

wasn't a lot of love in my parents'

house in terms of their love with each

other and we weren't necessarily a very

affectionate family so I then struggled

growing up as an adult because I didn't

really learn affection I you know that

that's exactly what I referred to before

no we didn't have that my my parents my

parents already divorced uh when I was

seven

eight so dad left at one point the house

he was present when uh I had to go to

training or games or coming around at

times but he left when I was uh eight so

I technically grew up with my

mom uh but even when they were together

is exactly what you said I didn't see a

lot of love affection hugging uh you

know when I said that I'm not

complaining I'm it wasn't hell please by

any means but it wasn't it wasn't a lot

of love that that side of the of the

emotion I didn't I didn't know it and

even more so when you grew up in this

type of

neighborhood that that amplify also what

was happening at home like it's more of

a be rough anger uh you're the man

you're a man be strong don't cry you

know

uh uh I didn't know how to how to to

open up talking I the problem maybe I

need

help I don't I I didn't know those those

tools I didn't know I didn't have a door

first and foremost to be able to know uh

what it

was I'm sure you understand what I mean

like even until now when I hug my mom is

weird

yeah like and I know people like come on

it's we

you know I I'll uh you know I won't stay

too long if you know what I mean like

I'm I mean maybe I went too far with it

did I go too far you know because I

don't know it stayed it stayed I didn't

know I didn't know how to deal with

that was was I even aware of it it's

when then I went to other people's

houses later on or when you speak with

people and tell you they have

discussions about whatever I'm like what

you guys discuss you

talk all right must be nice not in a bad

way understand me well but that's how it

was you know you get on with it you get

used to it it becomes uh it becomes a

norm who could you speak to back then

nobody but understand me well I didn't

know that I had to speak to people to

feel well I didn't I didn't know

anything else so I can't be sitting here

saying oh I wish I don't wish anything I

just didn't know that when you had a

problem you talk about it whatever it is

you had a fight uh you feel well about

or you were ashamed about you go home

how was your day good how part if you've

been you know something happened and the

Headmaster called at home or whatever it

is and then and then you didn't do your

homework or whatever but if if you ask

me are you okay I'm okay did you get

more attention when things didn't go

well when you were naughty or you know

maybe oh that's also the nor so you get

attention for bad that yeah yeah that

that that was this is where you know

that stayed on with me up until now my

my attention to

details comes from the fact

that it was always what I didn't do that

mattered so if I walk in the room room I

can Str away see what's

wrong never what's good which is I'm

working on it did help me in my life and

it still does help me because I can

assess the situation pretty quick and

see if something's going to go soft or

not

or if there is something wrong or

whatever I will notice it straight

away you know comes with a cost yeah it

does obviously he does but like I said

like I said to youon help myself like it

was always what I didn't do to to

whoever my mom my dad you know it was

tough Caribbean Caribbean way it's just

what you know you didn't do enough you

didn't my dad was very particular at

times on on our as as

um as a as as a player as a as a little

boy it was always like you didn't do

that well so obviously when you hear

that more often and the nut that's what

it's going to stay this is part of the

sort of immigrant Story of Survival when

you come to a new place parents aren't

focused on self-actualization or

happiness or fulfillment they're focused

on you know you better survive and you

better get an education and that they're

they're defense they're almost in

defense mode you got to fit yeah you got

to fit so make sure you you know it's

going to be it is a cliche thing and I'm

sure you heard it at home is gonna

be twice as out for you to get a job so

you grew up with

that grew up with oh I can't make any

mistakes where did football come into

this oh I early dolls dolls my my

dad this is and I said it so many times

this is exactly what he said the first

time he took me in his arm he didn't say

as people joke about it up until now

because that story it's it's known but I

didn't say that you know my God he looks

like me or he looks it doesn't look like

me or he has a big forehead or massive

lips or a big nose or whatever you say

oh my god oh is it's not a good-looking

one or you know

whatever it it the first thing he did

say is he put me in the air this is what

my uncle and mount said uh he

said this baby will be an amazing

football

player this is what he said and I know

people would say yeah right this is

exactly what he

said and he puts me down and he put me

down how do you feel about

that weird because you

know weird and and happy and at times

why and thank

God

but I wish and I will

explain because after that you can

imagine what comes next he's going to

fulfill the

prophecy so what come next is that I was

programmed to

[Music]

succeed so

whatever what what was going to happen

was always going to happen you

know he he took me on the field I was

maybe five six

to it's funny how you don't remember

stuff at times that early but I do

remember the first time he took me on

the field just to just to strike the

ball just to strike the ball just to

strike the ball and that's about it and

from that point it was always a mission

I was on the

mission to to to fulfill his dream to to

to please him

to and by the way don't get me

wrong at the time I don't know how much

I liked it

I I I cannot I don't know all I knew is

I didn't hate

it was it your choice definitely not my

choice early do what what choice do you

have anyway when you're young if your

mom wants to play piano it's at one

point you turn and you go like hey I

I've had enough of the piano or you I've

had enough of the guitar I've had enough

of of Judo or I've had enough of track

and field mom you know but this is what

I'm saying

whether I thought about it or I didn't

think about it could

I could I have

said that I didn't want it you know when

he picked you up as a baby and said this

baby is going to be an amazing football

player do you wish he said something

else It's just tough one I don't know I

don't know because look at where I am

look at what what happened

[Music]

uh do you wish he added a

sentence honestly it's

just it's

just when you hear what he

said that will you can understand in a

way exactly or what we're going to talk

about obviously do I wish that he said

something

else not at that moment knowing my dad

but do I wish that he he he behave a

certain way after yes but what he said

is what he said you know some people

said different different stuff and and

he didn't have an impact on your life or

not we're talking about it because I

became a football player or maybe if I

didn't I wouldn't have been here to tell

you my story also so no what he said

it's okay it's what came after that had

an impact uh um um on on me he takes you

out into the pitch you're five or six

years old he gets you doing practice of

kicking the ball kicking the ball I'm

assuming at this time because he's

divorced your mother your relationship

with him the center of your relationship

sort of has this gravitates around

football that is the relationship mainly

I

know that's you know apart from holidays

and and and you know I'm I'm going to

see him in cuz one point he went he went

back to live in in guadaloop so I'm

going to see him back there or I know I

was saying him about the weekend or he's

coming to get me for training so it's

it's it's even a it's like a double

thing I know I seem a lot thanks to

football and I know if I want to make

him happy it will be through football

how how how did you know that well first

of most because he said it and I knew

what he said I knew what he said said

because everyone told me after what he

said and the way he behaved I knew like

if I if I want to make him happy it can

only be that and you wanted to make him

happy yeah it's it's it's uh I think we

had a we had a discussion I talked about

it but uh yeah it's it's I always say

and I think I said it what you fear will

Master you

so my fear and and and and what was the

most difficult thing for me to do as as

a man and as a player ever was to please

my dad that was the hardest thing I had

to deal with to please my dad

and as you can imagine I heard it

after Cherry you great or my God or my

this or my that or from everybody or

whatever but the little me never heard

it it was always what I didn't do so

obviously you you all you you you always

trying to

to to to get the the nud the approval

the you were great oh you know you

you're progressing or it's always no you

miss this or you miss that or so for a

very long

time up until not that long

ago always my thing was to please

people because I never got that access

that access was never granted when I was

young

on that subject understand well on that

subject I was always looking for that

approval

which when I was young never

came at that age do you then almost

without knowing it start to associate

your sense of self your sense of worth

with your performance on the pitch

because that's it sounds like your your

father maybe intentionally or

unintentionally has programmed this

belief into you that if you do well on

the pitch then you are

worthy or you're lovable I I I didn't

even think about anything else than

pleasing him I wasn't even thinking

about what he can do for me after but

because I was always trying to do that

then he carried on with everything I

never wanted to let my teammates down I

always wanted to please them I always

wanted to please the fans I always

wanted to please because I grew up with

wanting to please him so I never stopped

you're looking for for something that

came from obviously what happened to you

young so he helped me because at one

point he works he works with with

sports because it's great to stay on

your you know to to stay grounded it's

another day and it to be the best so

that that at one point connected well

but technically he didn't help the

little me or he didn't help so much the

human being being it did to a degree

help the the

athlete because he works like don't be

you know too too satisfied with what you

have tomorrow is another day you need to

be good again so I was like okay I need

to I need to be the best I need to

please everybody again today I need to

you know my happiness and my sadness is

was always through

people cuz I didn't know I didn't know

you know what used to make me side on

that side it was always through you know

like y you said oh no you happy yeah you

know but me I was always like kind of I

won't say dead the word is not dead but

expressing my feelings was very

difficult apart rage and

anger rage and anger is

easy why because the same it's something

that I didn't

do so I'm I'm getting upset so it gives

me fuel

always he helped the athlete but he

didn't help the human no what was the

human missing what should he have given

about everything the human being was

missing almost

everything but you need to understand s

like i s to I left my house I was

13 you know people don't realize that

who are you who are you at 13 years old

you leave your

house and you you already dealing with

the pressure of succeeding because you

you you're trying to enter CL Fontaine

so already here is competition what is

clar Fontaine for people that don't know

G is a it's a preschool

preformation you you you have to pass

four so one weekend you come they take

the best 20 then they do the same in

around not far from Paris then the

weekend after that you have the 20 from

that place 20 from that place 20 from

Paris then you bring it down to 40 you

bring it out to 20 and eventually

obviously the 20 goes to that school of

clar fontain to teach you how to play

football and you go to school from by

the way 8 to 3 after that you play

football for people that don't know as

well because I was reading about CLE

Fontaine is it's considered to be the

elite sort of Academy in France I read

that around 1,600 trial for the program

and out of which 23 are selected per

year yeah yeah so that's this is like

the SAS of football in France it is it

is and a lot of players came from there

me if I give you me anela mbappe Galas

you know we we you know Pap I don't know

if you remember Pap but a lot of players

came from from that Academy so my friend

in the in our team here is French and he

was with with us in Paris when we when

we first met and he said if you go to

Clair Fon your chance of becoming a

professional footballer is like 95% it's

like 90% it's like that's the elite yes

but in the 95 yeah you have a chance but

not a lot of those guys it's still very

minimum the guys that made it

interesting the guys that went there

still very minimum this is why you know

the usual 2% succeed in 1998 don't you

know to be part of the

2% it's very difficult but to go back to

what we were

saying it does have an impact on a human

being because you didn't have a a a

normal

uh young life you it's not the same what

you expose to right from the start is

very difficult to deal with there was no

time to be a child it sounds like no not

at all and like I said you don't think

about it you think I think about it now

this is why I said to you I can now see

that the human being is missing a lot

have you learned a lot of these insights

from watching your kids get to just

playing be kids

um as I use that line often you know I

got educated and my kids are re

educating me you know uh my kids

uh save me they all saving me every day

every day I see something new that

teaching me to be a dad a better dad not

a better dad and my dad this is what I'm

saying myself a better dad and and they

open

doors that I that I I didn't know how to

deal with you know it's it's it's it's

it's

very you know sometimes when you

like I can see sometimes when they look

at me how much they love me and how much

like they they they like oh that but if

they only knew actually I look at them

the same way you know thanks for being

here because because it would have been

tough cuz I you know as an as an an

athlete as long as you stay within that

frame you can feed whatever you need to

feed to satisfy that little that little

thing that you have your ego your your

your avoiding your

problems distract because because you

prefer to be the athlete than the human

being because then the athlete it's

easier you know what to do well I knew

what to do even if it was painful

whatever I knew what to do

this is why when you go

there so it's easy for a little while

when you have your

career but I think I think you remember

that as an as as a as an athlete and and

I say it and I will maintain it you die

when you

stop the athlete a competitor

dies I can never play again in the Prem

I can never play for France anymore I

don't care what people say you can play

football not at that level not competing

the way I used to compete and not part

of me died so people don't teach you to

die so now you are going to face all

your

problems because you could put them on

the side because you're playing games

because you have other things that will

cover that but once once everything

stops we're not used to be at

home we're not used to deal with a

normal life since I'm 13 I never had a

normal life understand me well I'm not

complaining I'm just saying to go back

like to the to the real world it's a

it's a shock to the system because

you're actually technically not equipped

to live in that world it's an

interesting comparison to make but when

you hear people talk in these terms you

think of someone that had been

incarcerated in jail or you think of

someone that went off to maybe the

military and then returned after War to

a normal life and couldn't sort of

acclimatize to what it meant to just sit

in silence Alone um and in many respects

although those examples are quite

extreme in many cases your experience of

going being a football player since sort

of five years old being drafted into

this Elite Academy at 13 years old and

then spending the rest of your career in

sort of

Institutions where it high performance

institutions where as you say like you

were distracted from having to think

about being a human and you were an

athlete your identity was an athlete

your expectations were based on being an

athlete your sense of validation came

from being an athlete and

suddenly

boom it's over

look actors

often go into depression or problem when

they go into a character for a

movie because at one point they don't

know who they are anymore they they

become that character so when you put

that Cape as a

player for more than 20 years and you

have to be what you have to be for

people because you might transcend them

because of what you transmit the feeling

that you have of your club and with the

fans that that that that you know that

almost like you're like yeah I belong

when I had to fit in for a very long

time now I belong when that

goes can't wear that Cape

anymore and when you wear that Cape you

feel

different

responsibilities performing losing

winning doesn't matter but you know the

next day what you need to do in order to

compete put the cape on when you leave

that Cape it's like you're

naked like oh wait I'm going to ADM it

now they see my weakness they see my

things you see your weakness you feel

build it it's different you know when

it's it's like whatever it is for you

that when you put your cap you're like

okay you know put it down you're like oh

I don't like I like I don't like that so

much you know so how do you deal with

that this why I mean when I say you die

obviously is strong understand me well

with what's happening in the world at a

minute maybe it is strong to say but

that part of me died never come back

that can never come back a singer can

sing

can have you can have your concert up

until I can't I can't I can't play

anymore have to deal with

that and and

that it's tough to deal with it's tough

to deal with because that that's your

medicine you can't take it

anymore so there's another life there's

obviously it's not the end uh but you

need to to to learn how to be at

home to connect with your mes to connect

with with your kids because the way of

connecting before was very

minimal when you think about it you

never at

home so now you you you arrive at home

when you stop your career you're like a

guest well that's what you do you guys

when I used to

play you know it's it's not understand

me well I'm not complaining I'm not

saying you know people have you know I

understand I'm just trying to explain

what I went through what I'm going

for arson became it seems from reading

your story a bit of a substitute father

for you at one point when you moved to s

Monaco after C font yeah so you were 17

years old when you moved there Aron's

the manager at um Monaco at the

time does he because this relationship

you have with arson

it you know that time you go off to

Monaco I think there's a little bit of a

sort of a disconnect from your father in

some way is that accurate uh to yeah

yeah

well the thing is uh how do you tell

your dad that that he needs to step

aside in order for

me to have my career it's my life when

he did everything for you at that moment

as a dad by the way but how how do you

make him understand and now I needs to

fly I need to fly alone is that a

conversation is it no it wasn't a

conversation no it wasn't that that that

that that never happened it

just I made him I made him

understand you made him understand yeah

the look the the the the the you

know making you know making sure that he

was understanding that he couldn't come

anymore but you know if he's asking me

for some tickets I wasn't maybe sending

them at times or stuff like that you

know because

talking what

stuff so you indirectly yeah you do you

do you do no it's not it's not rejecting

but it was it was too much at one point

what was too much but the pressure of of

of pleasing him the constant he was

always there which was good don't get me

wrong but it's like for everybody you're

not going to be always on top of your

kids in whatever because at the end of

the day you you you you don't help

them I needed to make mistakes by myself

have you got specific memories of when

you thought you played well but he

just oh so many I mean it's that one

also is very famous in France people

still talk to me about it they still

when they see me the three they said the

name of the team that I played against

yeah it's a very famous one it's true

story uh we played the game I was uh 15

uh already then you can see if someone

is kind of good or not good uh we won a

game six nil I scored the six goals and

on no way back you know so I step I step

out of the um of the game and I knew I'm

sure you the

same if I'm if I was like this I swear

believe you believe me or you don't

believe me the aura of my dad I knew

even with about looking at him if if if

the man was happy or not so if you

turned around you feel even before like

it was that powerful you could just feel

his energy feel it and he wasn't happy I

I I turn and I saw it I could I can tell

you any posture and I knew if if he was

happy not happy or

or or whatever so we arrive in the car

you know

silence so I'm

like shall I talk shall I not

talk

okay like you know so yeah we this

exactly how we

were so it goes like you're

happy so I'm like what shall I

answer

yeah yeah but you shouldn't because you

missed that you missed that thing you

missed that control you missed that

cross you missed that this you missed

that that you missed that then I arrive

at my mom's house I always remember he

dropped me at my mom's

house I go up and I'm walking like this

my mom is like did you lose I said no we

won six nil and I scored the six

goals and then she looked at me going

in it was often like that why why was he

doing that in your view I don't know

like I always say you know what I try to

uh came to you know to come to terms

with it um but you need to understand

something

like my dad never read my dad never

traveled my dad knows only one way his

way and what is been told and if if I

compare what how I've been brought up to

how is been brought up there a world so

for him he

already you know put that down so you

can't you can't be upset with someone

that tries to do his best and educate

you with his tools I don't have the same

tools my box of tools has more tools and

my kids would have more tools than me so

you can't you can't you know you can't

be upset with that one you have to come

to to terms with how it was that's how

it was

now you need to accept

it but digesting it is when it becomes

tricky because you can always accept

everything but the impact that he has on

you after it's on you to deal with that

the values he he gave you and you learn

growing up up until you you know you

ultimately move on to you know in

Arsenal the values that made you

successful in hindsight when you look

back what are those values that are

transferable to any industry or any

discipline that put you where you are

because listen you know

people people can be born with great

genetics they can be born with whatever

but that isn't enough it's been proven

time and time again that that isn't

enough to reach the highest of the highs

and have a statue of yourself you know

over there in

London there's got to be a mindset

character or values underneath there

that

creates that

Legend that's so many things but that I

understood and there's so you know you

talk about Al you a lot of guys that I

came uh across in my career helped me

develop something that was in me I do

believe that we always always have we

all have something in now are we going

to develop it it's a different ball

game as you know my upbringing was rough

strict um but it it can go both ways

yeah can make you or break you I decided

it was going to make me but I had to put

my dad on the side at one point I had to

put everybody on the side at one point

and concentrate to the path now we're

talking about it's a different it's a

different topic now we're going to talk

about what I became and the in bracket

the animal I became came on I was a

player that's that's a different ball

game that comes with seeing Dennis bamp

every morning working hard that comes

with seeing all those players at one

stuff working out and I'm looking at it

and I'm like how am I going to move

those

guys if you add obviously what my dad

gave me never be satisfied do

more it's always what you didn't do well

you know obviously had a certain

attribute I was fast that's the only

attri with I had when I was young I was

fast you have guys that are technical or

see the game or whatever awareness or

whatever I was just fast so I had to

work really hard and I know people would

say oh my god get that cliche sentence

no I had to work really hard every day

my le my left foot was

poor uh Ed forget about it and he still

I still didn't manage to to be better

during my career I got a tiny bit better

but I work free kick I going to take a

free kick uh uh anything you know

repetition is key repetition always

creates habit you know so I

knew I knew I wasn't as gifted as so

many players although I did everything

that you're supposed to do I went to

Clon I play under 15 France under 16

under the 17 under 18 under 19 under 21

first team so people when they see my

path they always go like yeah I mean

natural it was always going to no not

true not true I always had to battle but

when you know that the hardest thing

that I had to do was to please my dad

the rest was nothing for me in bracket

not disrespecting anything that happened

in my career but that was so easy

compared to what I had to do in order to

please the the old man and my young self

is still waiting for that approval still

yeah I'm trying to connect with the

little man it's said you know I'm going

to a different discussion now but I'm

still trying I'm trying to connect with

the the little man but you go back I go

back too sorry to what you asked me what

did it teach me is obviously to never

give up do more but there's something

that was

missing that I understood

late and I think for me the best leader

you can be need the leader or the

greatest leader do have that and I was

missing that for a very long time which

in in sport because you have to play a

game and you have to you're not here to

you know oh you have a problem or let's

have a talk about it you know when you

play you play it stuff during a season

is stuff during a game and stuff but

vulnerability and empathy was

missing those are the two greatest point

of the leader for me when you show

vulnerability and obviously you show

empathy you you you can go places you

can go places because if your group

knows that you're like them and they can

relate although you might be as you can

you might be hard as you know

what they they will follow you but in

football because of how it is because it

is taboo sometime to be vulnerable it is

taboo to show emotion you know the

emotion that emotion the crying the this

the that especially in my time in a

dressing room you couldn't say anything

it's a bit more accepted now if you say

I'm not well mentally is is and and and

and thank God for that by the way uh but

all the above that that you can imagine

for me it was always trying to be the

best version that I can be every day did

you think you were going to be the

player you become no how do how do you

how do

you how do you look look I just wanted

to please my dad how am I going to think

that I you fast forward are going to

have a statue in front of the the the

Emirates I mean how even when you were

playing at Arsenal and you were winning

them golden boots and you were winning

everything and the invincibles and all

of that you were still trying to please

your dad at your core in a way yeah I

couldn't see it that constant look of to

not name a movie The postet of happiness

or the the the pursuit of pleasing

people I love that movie so I um

um yeah but I what that that that was my

that what that's it's kind of weird when

I always say when your your medicine is

your poison because you always chase

that were you happy

um I don't know I never asked myself

that question I couldn't care

less I just couldn't care less like you

saw it you I mean you saw me play so I

couldn't care less you saw me I my face

was always hard was always you know I

could smile it's funny I always say and

this is why I always said to people and

in France they used to have a go at me

because I never used to celebrate my

goals I always used to stand in a stoic

manner way or you know always proud or

or rage but people never used to see

when I used to give an assist I always

used to

smile please

watch assist smile goal

rage sweetd but pleasing again giving

was always always always smiling you see

even now I smile but goal no goal was

just like that's what you had to do man

because you're making the player that

you've given the goal happy I guess

you're giving them it's interesting

because people who grew up in

environments where they had a parent or

parents that they were trying trying to

please often tend to exhibit two traits

one of them is being an empath with the

term empath is like being so emotionally

sensitive to how everyone's feeling in

every room all the time because that

started as a young age with you know con

you know and then the second is people

pleasing and it they always say people

pleases start with trying to please one

or more of their parents and it's funny

there's a cliche about comedians right

comedians whenever I sit with a comedian

the question is always which one of your

parents was

depressed which one of the parents were

you trying to put smile on their face

and this is cliche that comedians are

depressed whereas when I've interviewed

comedians they say no no no no no it's

my dad that was depressed and at four I

was trying to make him smile and I and

it's and that's and it's so interesting

that in your case as well it was a very

similar thing this question

though like all these great achievements

you know won the World Cup you know the

Invincible Team all these Trophies the

height the the peak of your powers and

you can't tell me whether you were happy

or not

no no because for me I did what I had to

do when you went home though when you

went home after a great game you get

home if I'm a fly on the wall in that

room do I see a man that's

happy yes for a little while and then

you because that's how the game is you

know I was talking about gichi which is

my assistant and you know played at Man

City and and Arsenal with

me the other day we were in Camp with

the national team obviously being my

assistant said to me cherry do you

remember what you did one day I'm like

I'm like I don't know man said we won

the league so he won the league with us

when we stayed

[Music]

Invincible he said to

me okay uh where where is the party

tonight we going and everything so I'm

not going to to no party tonight

he said yeah but everybody's going I

said yeah I'm not

everybody stay home he said why said we

have the Euro going home everyone went

to the party I didn't so understand for

me it was like Hey I have the

Euro just the next thing yeah so you you

you tend at one point not to enjoy it

while you're

playing that was my way was the way or

not I don't know but it was mine so girl

was like you were crazy I said I don't

know if I was crazy but that's how it

was for me I have the Euro I need to

concentrate for the Euro so I didn't go

which time can be seen as a guy that

keep himself to himself or doesn't want

to belong in the team well I surely did

when I was on the

field for me that's the only thing that

matters are you going to cover me we

don't have to be we don't have to be

friends after

that it goes back to what you were Tau

to Value though you went taught to Value

party celebration happiness you were

taught to

Value performance on the pitch you have

to perform and so I said to you when you

put that Cape that's what is asked of

you

then when I arve towards the end of my

career I realized something I was big

and something I was missing is I always

thought that titles mattered and yes

they do but I always thought that that's

the only thing that mattered when it's

not true it's not true is how you is how

you as I mentioned before is how you

transcend and what you can transmit and

also how you inspire people that

matters and I never took I never thought

about it when I was playing again

because I didn't have those tools

also when you went off to when you went

off to Barcelona an adjustment period

took place and you were married at the

time and then you went through a divorce

this question of love comes back into

the picture you know if you'd grown up

in that household where your parents got

divorced when you were seven or eight

years

old you know you look back who taught

you and then you were in Academy at 13

so you get married the marriage falls

apart when you're in

Barcelona who taught you how to be in a

relationship nobody with a love woman

nobody you you deal with it you learn

you

fail

uh again you know you you mentioned it I

arrive at Barcelona I arrive injured I

was divorcing adapting to a new life new

language new team new way of playing

people don't

care I don't I don't ask people to Care

by the way because that's how it is but

it's not easy it was stuff it was stuff

don't see you don't see you know I

couldn't see my daughter for a little

while you know and people expect you to

perform so what do you do you put the

cap

on put the cape on because that's the

only way so okay you put the cape on

you're like okay and you do feel that

everything goes away it's a feeling

though it's an impression it's a lie but

when I put that cape

on I feel like you can't see that I'm

hurt I feel like you don't see because

now people see the player so in a in a

in a in a weird way you want people to

know and you want people to know how you

feel that you're not equipped right now

to

perform and in in in the same time you

you put it on because you don't want

them to know you understand what I mean

it's it's kind of way you're like you

know what let me put the cape on and

then they will attack the player you

want help but you don't want to ask for

help you do but you don't it's kind of

weird you you want you want someone to

go like oh this is what's happening to

him and you're like thank you but you

don't want to say it what were the

symptoms you said the word hurt if I

again if I was a fly on the wall in that

room in Barcelona when you were alone

what was going on in your head well just

imagine I like to please people and

everything everywhere was a no no I

wasn't playing well you're divorcing so

you you I'm feeling I'm letting my

daughter down I'm listen the fans down I

listen letting my friends down myself

down everybody down just imagine how I

am on wanting to please

people and it wasn't

happening

so

tough cap on cap

off tough but the easiest way to deal

with it was to put the cape on when the

cape's not on what are your thoughts

saying to at that

time what you kind of as a human being

like did I make the right choice

[Music]

uh you know and I said it I think

that par moment football wasn't really

my priority if the cap wasn't on

obviously but when the even before when

the cap wasn't on was still football you

need to rest you need to this you need

to that but there it wasn't because it's

it's actually technically and this is

not me having a go at my dad or the

relationship or or anything but I was

like you know when swear that if you get

married you never get divorced because

you know and you you know very little

about life

obviously and I was like I know this is

exactly what happened to me or what's

happening to me what are you doing

you're repeating yeah to yourself like

you know you you kind of

like what are you doing this is why I

said I say it so many times and I will

say it again my biggest fear is not to

be a good dad and and so I was go in my

mind that doesn't mean it's not because

you're going to divorce you're going to

be a bad dad but in my mind I'm letting

people down I'm a bad dad I'm a bad

whatever you understand what I mean my

way of thinking I'm lying that's my

biggest fear still still now is to to to

to you know cuz I'm learning to be a

dad like everybody by the way because

you know that's that's but

you know some dolls I didn't have some

emotions I didn't have I wasn't often at

home and still not often at

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back to the episode when did

you what was the moment when you

realized that you're playing Korea was

behind you you know you obviously went

off to America um for a while and then

it you transferred to the New York Red

Bulls and then you retired at sort of 37

years old but was there a moment where

you realized a day where you thought do

you know what I'm I'm not going to be on

the pitch as a professional player

anymore oh yeah there was a day uh and

you might laugh but my daughter was at

home in New York I suffered of Achilles

problem for more than 10 years both side

uh as it was I was in pain every morning

really pain pain was never going away

all day both side both of

myties uh just I just some sometimes I

felt a bit better sometimes no but every

morning I was in pain afternoon night

for 10 years so I'm at home with my

daughter and she comes she comes close

to me and she touches me and she goes

you it and she

ran I wanted to run I

couldn't I wanted to run I couldn't I

looked at her I said hey you won I

couldn't chase her and I stopped I went

what are you

doing like I couldn't I just couldn't I

I'm not even joking Stephen I I she run

and I just couldn't move what are you

doing that's when I knew I couldn't

handle pain anymore because this is why

it is people forget about anything that

you can think of you need to love pain

to be an

athlete and I know no pain know this

whatever all the you know the oh my no

this is real you need to love

pain however mentally physically love it

you need to love it if not stay where

you

are and then you retire eventually at 37

years old from professional

football what happens

then

I I was in a way happy I'll tell you why

because because I

stopped some people stopped because of

injuries some people stopped because of

different stuff I

stopped it was on my terms I stopped you

know it's better than people were like

Cher you still can play oh I knew I

could still play but I stopped so I

didn't have a problem with

stopping like you know when you know the

fear that day I didn't have a problem

with that but I didn't know what going

to to come after you prepare yourself

you pass your badges you you know you

prepare yourself mentally and

whatnot but then how do you fit the

competitor how do you fit the guy that

loves to

please when he can do it or not every 3

days

how when did

you know that you were

struggling when I

wasw

because the cape was always my

thing to make sure that I when I felt

the struggle coming

Cape

so I knew it before but I was lying to

myself or I was going to make sure that

that feeling wasn't going to go too

far so I put the cape on

but then when you're not a player

anymore you can't put that Cape anymore

so then everything starts to crep in you

know you think you go back to what

happened what you became are you were

with people are you behave with people

were you a good guy not a good guy was

it necessary sometime not necessary you

start to re to replay everything in your

head on how you were what you did and

pack you had on people the P that you

had on

yourself what type of person you want to

be for your kids and that's when it

becomes scary because you don't have the

answers because usually have the answers

for

everything Theory tomorrow or that guy

okay I'm going to work out on that work

on this going to be better next weekend

I going to work on this I'm going to

work on that don't worry about it going

to work you know what next year next

year you'll see I come back my left foot

going to be sound my this my this my

this my that I had

answers now all I had is

questions that's about it too many

questions brain thinking other thinking

and when you other think usually you

don't go to the positive thinking when

you overthink you you you tend to bring

yourself down and and whatever wasn't

good uh uh in your life you you you try

to find way to make sure that you you

can cover it but cap wasn't around

anymore so how do you do that were you

sad no sad no no sad sad would not be

the the word I wasn't sad but I was

trying to find an explanation of of what

happened to me regardless of why it is

because I'm a guy that likes to have an

explanation I need I need to know why

and when you

cannot answer it it is it is KN I find

that not knowing when I cannot and and

not everything has an explanation but

this is the way I am I always need to

have a logical or illogical explanation

even if your explanation is not logical

explain something to me so when I cannot

understand and comprehend what's

happening to me it's the tough one

what's happening to you in that moment

post retirement or what happened to you

in your career everything everything

came at once especially uh during covid

time

because that's when I really stopped

because again I was trying to find a way

to find that Cape so you pass your your

badges you you becoming a coach you try

to do something to make sure that you're

not going to to to think about what's

been chasing me for a very long time

when are you going to deal with what

happened to you whatever it is to you to

me to whoever but we we we we tend to

run instead of facing our problems

that's what we do all the time you stay

busy you you try to avoid the problem or

not think about it uh but then Co

happened and when Co

happened what are you running why are

you running what are you doing was uh

you know isolated in uh in uh Montreal

for a year um not for a year I would say

you know whenever the you know threee mo

and another two Mo and whatever it was

and not being able to see my kid kids

for a year was

tough was tough because but I mean it's

a title right so I don't I don't need to

even explain that one um but yeah it was

tough because it had to something like

that had to happen to me for me to

understand vulnerability empathy

crying uh you know understand that

emotions are emotion just don't become

it uh you know it's you know anger is

normal

uh jealousy is normal but don't become

jealous anger is normal don't become

angry you know I couldn't I couldn't

like if I before if I if I feel anger

man I become angry if I was a again the

question I asked earlier if I was a fly

on the wall in quarantine watching

you what would I have seen me

crying almost every day for no reason

tears were coming

alone why I don't know but maybe they

were waiting for they were there for a

very long

time was crying for

everything everything I'm watching a

movie that's not even really sad but I'm

crying you know everything I don't know

if that needed to come out I don't know

if you know was weird in a good way in a

good way that there was some stuff that

I couldn't

control and to be fair I didn't try to

control them and that's you know and I

couldn't couldn't hide them I couldn't

surpress them and do you want even to

surpress them really you know but you've

been told since you're young whe if it

was at home or in your job don't be that

guy man don't show that you're You're

vulnerable if you if you cry what what

they're going to think which

is it's not the end of the world

but for me like if if if I when I was

young I saw someone crying what are you

doing man you know I'm like

really type of thing so it was yeah you

would have seen me crying you would have

seen

me technically it wasn't me it was it

was the young

me it was me understand what I'm saying

but it was the Young The Young ter

there what was he crying for well for

everything he didn't get I approval it's

kind of weird to say that approval I got

that I still get that all the time but I

didn't want to hear

it you know it wasn't it wasn't like it

was coming but not feeding my little man

so my little man I want point to control

of that body and and it was tough you

know you need to have the balance this

is what I'm trying to do now to have the

balance between me and and my inner

child which is not an easy one this is

why I always say to people once you have

the that discussion with that little guy

inside you it's scary

man it is scary because what he going to

tell you is everything that you didn't

want to hear or trying to avoid for a

very long time and he took

control and what did he tell

you just be be yourself be human show

you are

really stop fronting stop lying because

we're Liars

we pretend we live in a world right

where let's all be honest we live in the

world where we've both been told do not

judge the book by his cover right we do

the total opposite every day we do the

total opposite go and try to find a job

with a

tracksuit and you arrive with your hood

on walk in and see if they're going to

receive you but we've been told since

we're young right Stephen do not judge

the book by his cover that's a lie

that's all we do

our appearances matter and then we keep

on saying to our kids no the L doesn't

matter

really Luke doesn't matter let's all be

honest it does we want to pretend or

think that you've been we are saying the

right things because it looks cool but

when it comes to do

it it's a different story it is a

different story look we we we go we go

you know this is why I like the movie

Black Black Panther you know when when

when he's in the museum and the girl

says what are you doing here I said

that's from my Village what are you

talking

about we have stuff that have been in

the world stolen for however however it

was however it happened or whatever that

are in museum that that that maybe you

from that part and you can't go in

because you're not dressed well or

because and people are making money out

of those things and you know what are we

doing what are we talking about and we

sitting here trying to say all the time

pretending or whatever it is it's a bit

all falls so we you tag along you play

the game but that that has an impact I

remember the first time I experienced

something that would be considered a

mental health issue and I remember the

the almost the shame I felt because I

never thought that as a young CEO at the

of 21 I always had to be the tough guy

but also I always thought those mental

health challenges happened to other

people so there was almost a bit

of struggle with my own sort of Shame

and accepting my own vulnerability that

and like do I talk to someone about this

or do I keep it to myself when you're in

that room in covid and you're crying

every day and you don't know why at that

point do you have someone that you can

talk to about how you're feeling truly

and be 100% honest with how you're

feeling all these years later you must

have been what 40 40 in your 40s yeah it

was 2020

yeah it's

look it's tough it's tough

[Music]

because you know I'm trying to bring

myself

there

um it's very difficult cuz

I I don't know who the wom the the the

human being was like I I I don't know I

just didn't know like I said to you I go

back I didn't have those doors I didn't

have those tools I didn't I didn't know

uh I I I just didn't know everything was

new for me that part of my body those

dolls that I didn't have before the

understanding of the that side of the of

the of the of the game want I say the

game talking about life obviously uh

dealing with uh love and and it was we

weird weird my my my way of dealing with

love was like you know like I said

pleasing again like you know giving

present to people oh my God I'm happy

then I asked myself that question what

makes you happy

Cherry what makes you

happy obviously my kids but again it's

my kids what makes you happy at zero

answer zero so you know when

you it's kind of weird because

I when you look at it this is this is

what I would like to achieve but it's is

virtually impossible whether you act

with your brain or you act with your

heart and at times both feels good

especially with your heart because it

brings different emotions and when you

act with your brain is a bit more no I'm

not doing it here is like let's let's

let's see what's going to happen right

right but both if you can balance right

your thoughts and the way you act and

you can walk on the on on the Rope you

know like the funer we call them tight

rope tight rope yes and you are walking

on

there in harmony with your inner child

connected

balancing decision with your heart and

decision with your brain that will me

the that's in my head the image of the

perfect human

being you walking on a tight rope with

your inner child balancing decision with

your brain and with your heart because

if you go too much that that side you're

going to fall although you are in

harmony with your inner child if you go

that way you're also going to fall which

we all know it's impossible

but that's you know so I had to in my

head create that picture that I have the

tattoo of it by the way but I had to

create that picture in order to see what

I'm Hing

for I need to I needed that I needed

something you know before I was you're

trying to please your dad whether I was

aware or not aware of it doesn't matter

it was in me what am I trying to do now

what is it so I had to draw something

in that room did you know if I was in a

room in Co in the pandemic and I'd been

you know this Superstar athlete and then

I find myself in the situation where I'm

crying in the hotel or in the in the in

the

room are you self- diagnosing do you

understand what that is at the

time no but I had to do

it

so do the body the body

okay the body does heal

itself whether if it's going to be

beautiful or not it will eventually in a

certain way heal itself and even if you

walk in a weird way after you will walk

your body will readjust or not why can

you not heal yourself alone mentally to

a certain degree because you need help I

understand

that but this is what I'm saying if you

Expos to something

for so long it would have an impact on

you but it somehow along the way you did

adapt to it like you will adapt to

living in a hot country or in a cold

country I go and said how can you live

here you're like I grew up here man so I

got used to it that doesn't mean it's

okay but you do in a way adapt to it or

you learn how to live with it or you

don't so I did learn how to live live

with it with a lot of impact on me as

you can see a lot of consequences that

I'm still trying to deal with but yes I

do you do self deal with it or self

diagnose yourself without realizing it

did you it sounds like you were

struggling with a form of depression

when you were in that phase of your life

did you know that that's what it was no

and did you that's impossible I I don't

know I didn't know in hindsight do you

think that's what it was I would like to

think so

but how do I know cuz I don't know the

signals like I cannot tell you that I

was or wasn't I don't know the

signals like I don't know said to me

right now I don't know like if you give

me any other

signals not any of let me tell you anger

this and that yeah yeah I was angry man

yeah were you I'm like but how you've

heard people characterize it now and

describe it now does that yeah it does

ring a Bell more than the Bell but was

it you know I'm look I'm a human being

so I have

feelings throughout my career and since

I was born I must have been in

depression did I know it

no did I do something about it obviously

no but I

adapted to a certain way that doesn't

mean I'm walking

straight but I'm walking you gota you

got to put one foot and another one and

walk that's that's what I've been told

since I'm young and it doesn't matter

where you're from it doesn't matter what

you do it doesn't matter your your job

you got to walk you got to stand no

matter how the the rough the sea is

whatever it is you got to stand and

walk and and people have a you know way

out life than than I obviously but I'm

just saying it doesn't matter you have

to get up and walk so do do I realize

because I never stopped walking then

maybe I would have realized Co I stopped

walk uh

walking cuz I couldn't put a

foot after and again I couldn't I just

couldn't Ste so that's why I was like oh

I need to pose then you start to realize

and you start to other thing then you

start to to to whatever I know it's kind

of a cliche one you need to stand it's

not how you fall it's how you stand yeah

we all know right not trying to be uh uh

you know uh clever here but I've been

told you know keep on

walking I I say this because your

story brings to like a bunch of

Statistics that I've I was reading about

as it relates to mental health um

someone dies by suicide in the UK every

90 minutes 76% of these are male 25

attempts for every death single biggest

cause of death for men under the age of

45 is suicide single biggest cause of

death for 15 to 49 year olds 19 to 35

year olds are twice as likely to report

being in the these stats are absolutely

shocking and there're almost 80% of this

is men it's the this crazy stat that

people always talk about the single

biggest cause of death if you're under

the age of 45 uh I will this is please

this is not a sexist thing or whatever I

don't want to enter the battle men w

this is not where I'm going but it's not

easy to be a

man that sheare

pressure and it is and the stats you

know will tell you uh and I I keep on

saying I don't know this is not me

trying to say that I thought about it or

whatever not not at all not that but I I

told you that there I'm sure you

remember my kids saved me and I'm not

saying that just like that but literally

I'll explain yeah I'll explain I don't

know where I was going mentally I don't

know really I don't know where I was I

was going CU when I came back from

covid came back home I didn't see

because after that year we were allowed

back home but then I knew if I was going

back to Montreal I don't know what was

happening with Co if I was going to not

see my kids for a year or whatever so

I'm at home next you know it's a month

whatever I pack my bags I was about to

leave

again so I said bye to my kids everybody

was there and you remember when I told

you uh my my young me never got any

approval never got any recognation no no

how can I explain that no no love Yeah

in bracket apart from the you know the

we have food we have this but was never

hugging or or saying or nodding or any

approval like that pack my bag I'm like

okay Daddy's about to leave next thing

you know I put my bags

down

and everyone starts to cry so I put my

bags down to say bye to everybody and

everybody starts to

cry

from the The Nanny to to my girlfriend

to the kids everybody was crying and

then for the first time for the first

time and I know people say oh my God

Cherry for the first time because at

that moment it

was the little me that felt it I'm like

oh they see

me not the football player not the

accolades not the and I felt

human not you know me always trying to

please people because oh you play

football

or you can put your cape on or this is

why they like you that's what they want

to see they want to see a guy that's

strong a guy that's going to perform

trans transmit transcend Inspire and the

both so be that guy okay boom let's do

it again today let's do it again today

but for the first time that day I was

like

oh they see me they were crying because

you were leaving yeah but this they were

crying for me to happy or crying for the

athlete understand me well I'm not

saying they didn't before but I never

realized it I never for the I felt it

the first time there and my little me

for the first time got

fed with

love put my bags down but I told you and

I stayed I stopped coaching in Montreal

I said I said what am I

doing what am I doing going to go again

into situation just because you're

pursuit of pleasing people and stuff and

stuff they they love they love Terry the

kids not not not t Henry they love ti so

I stayed and for the first time and I'm

not scared to say it I felt human I felt

like people like they saw

me like the human being I was like well

that feel nice it feels really nice this

is why I said my kids save me so I don't

where I was going I don't know if I was

going to obviously go back not see them

again I don't know where mentally that

would have brought me I I don't I I

don't actually know but that day is a

special day for me

because because yeah that what they did

fed my little my little me and you know

when you you you you've been looking for

something for so long but you don't know

what it was m

you just don't know it's annoying it's

like you're looking for something you

know you're looking for something but

you don't know what it is and you you've

been thrown a lot of things no that's

not it no that's not it no that's not it

that's still not it still not it and

then out of nowhere when I wasn't

looking for

anything it came but it was right in

front of you the whole

time yeah was I was I open enough to say

it though that the thing was I you know

this is why covid you know made me you

know

might vulnerability

empathy

understanding those emotions so the

doors were

there so suddenly when that happened oh

I was like oh that door well that's a

new door that's nice open boom done

before

like maybe that happened before and

never felt it if you know what I mean

it's it's kind of weird but I felt it

that day though and it did resonate and

you quit working in Montreal yeah

straight away straight

away it it reminds me I got a flashback

to speaking to Patrice Patrice Evra