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if i knew now what i knew then i would

have done a different

journey

dance album dj of the year

diplo diplo and i just remember

i did this whole circuit working all

these young rappers they were like

really young they were like 19 20. and

these rappers all started to die you

know little peep overdosed ex was was

shot nobody really cares about like all

the adoration you get you care about the

people that don't like you and that you

get caught up in that

it's not a consistent paycheck music

never is and it wasn't for me for three

four years one month i'm not doing good

i don't care i can't pay rent i'm

homeless what's the the sacrifice or the

cost in terms of like personal life

balance i have to answer that

[Music]

wes

yeah um

whenever i do this podcast up i always

get really intrigued by the the

formative years of someone's life

and in your story

um

it seemed like a very very humble

beginning when i look at

where you started under the age of 14

um i couldn't quite piece together

myself obviously

how that early upbringing had led you to

becoming who you are today

is there is there anything when from

below the age of say like 14 that you

can point at and say if that hadn't

happened

or if that if i hadn't had that

experience or that interaction with a

family member or grandfather whatever it

might be i i don't think i would be here

today

i didn't start really

producing releasing music till like my

mid-20s because it was pretty late i was

doing things but not actually at a level

where i quit my job and it's my main

source of income

but when i was younger um i was a pretty

bad kid i was bouncing from high schools

in different middle schools and

i was i was actually sent to a military

school at one point at like that age

like 14.

um and i even got expelled from there

and then like that was like the last my

my last shot right and i came back

they let me back in because it cost my

family like a lot of money was like

three thousand dollars for me to go

there because i was i was getting sent

at every school but going to military

school

maybe if anything it taught me how to

like

if i was gonna do something

criminal or like something bad like it

was bad be a little smarter about it if

anything somebody there was like

criminal the whole military school was

just a bunch of terrible kids and they

were like really knew what they were

doing

um

so if anything i kind of like

it was like learning from the school of

hard knocks you know

but

i think being in military school even

that was only like for one year um and

my father he was a vietnam vet and

you know i think i can attribute his his

concept of discipline to it you know

like no matter how bad i was how much i

disagree with my father he gave me the

most

complex

rules of what discipline means

what it what it is to apply in whatever

you're doing and i didn't realize that

until i was older that you know these

what what makes my story successful what

makes me a better dj or what makes me a

better songwriter

it really

i don't have the technical abilities but

i have i always apply myself to find a

goal you know and i really feel like

that that's what my father gave me

before

before i turned into an adult because

it's just something i had inside me that

separated me from everybody else when i

got into the music business

work ethic was such a clear thread

throughout your story like relentless

almost at times it seems somewhat

obsessive work ethic and it's funny

because when i hear about your early

upbringing i guess my assumption is

because it sounds quite similar to mine

getting kicked out of school and and

being the only kid out of four siblings

that was like always getting bad grades

always in exclusion were people did

people around you think you were going

nowhere at that point yeah i mean even

until the mid-20s my father was like how

did you buy this house like how did you

what are you doing like there's no

there's no way

possibly you're making money with music

like it's like there's just no possible

way and i went to college i went for um

i went to ucf i got a little community

college because i couldn't afford like a

real school i did two years there just

basically just getting

just being in a school so i could have

something to advance forward and then

with the temple university in philly and

i ended up dropping out that school but

i went for anthropology and filmmaking

so it was like a really

two other degrees that would literally

turn into no job but i was obsessed with

documentary filmmaking i thought that

would be something i could i could do i

was obsessed with culture i was obsessed

with humans and people and the study of

culture and i was when i was a young

person i was reading national geographic

all the time and watching documentaries

so that was something i was like how do

i apply that you know

and my father's also like this is a huge

mistake what are you doing what about

accounting that's a great

degree to have

um in the end i think what i'd learned

at that university was

um because in the film program it was

like

there was a lot of creative avenues i

could learn from and the people who were

professors were almost like filmmakers

that didn't make it and they have to be

professors it kind of feels like so like

what am i doing here i want to learn

these people aren't even in the business

you know so the real business is like

going out and making it yourself and i

think i just did that set third year i

was like i'm out of school

but i kind of wish i had dropped out of

college earlier

and had a head start because it took you

a while when you're paying your college

tuition and working and it's so time

consuming and then eventually i started

to to to do music and do little odd jobs

like djing to where i was like oh i can

kind of like quit my jobs now and also

like yeah i think

if i knew now what i knew then i would

have done a different

journey but i think that's what makes

you who you are you know no matter how

long it takes and eventually you make

that decision to sort of start heading

towards music right um even though it's

not paying you at all and i was reading

about the jobs you were doing in that

period of your life you were worked at a

zoo at one point yeah you were a social

worker at one point yeah how long did

that period of your life when you'd made

the decision to move towards music and

that music was going to be your thing

how long was that it definitely wasn't i

mean i

at 22 years old i was already working

like nine to fives you know it was it

was like the social work job was my

first job as like this is a job that

feels good to do like you know i'm

working with children

i was going between teaching kids and

then after school program and just felt

like okay this is cool

um

it feels like i'm doing something for

somebody instead of working at like

subway and making money for the head of

subway which is kind of like a waste of

my energy but working with kids i felt a

little bit like

i i felt fulfilled you know

i think

but then you run into the bureaucracy of

of i was in a city like philadelphia so

it was just like so much corruption even

in like this the social work world it

was crazy

um

eventually i was getting beaten down at

that job too i was like this is this is

my life like 22 i'm like this is this is

all i can look forward to is like

building my way into like this job or

this job and

i think

i started

djing on the side uh at parties and

learning from the djs there because

philadelphia is a famous city for djing

it's like culturally one of the most

important cities in america um for

hip-hop for djing

and i just started doing parties and

then i saw

what you do if you do your own party

like you can invest invest in yourself

and promote a party and you take

everything right so i started learning

small little business acumen from just

doing parties

and then eventually i started i can quit

my job i can make it it was a huge step

because at that point you don't know

when you're doing

music and parties full-time

it's literally up to you to how much

you're working or what you're doing to

keep the money flowing to pay the rent

if i don't one month i'm not doing good

i don't care i can't pay rent i'm

homeless um it's not a consistent

paycheck music never is and it wasn't

for me for probably three four years but

yeah it took it just it's just literally

just putting your boots to the ground

and like doing the work and like failing

at it and learning what makes you better

what makes you more money like what's

how do you grow this business even in

these little small steps that's kind of

what i did in those

those first years my career and i wasn't

even really making my own music yet i

was just djing and making mixtapes and

making edits and learning how to use

computers still like i had nobody to

teach me i was buying

hardware or you know in high school

shoplifting from sam goody and sam ash

and like guitar center like samplers to

use so it really just came down to

just the grind to figure out what works

and what doesn't it was so evident even

when i was hearing about you like in the

record stores and ultimately selling a

record to can are they vinyls you were

selling to canadian samples and stuff

but throughout that even like you're the

story about you reading was it william

faulconer's book yeah and you're you had

this clear

hunger for learning

like teaching yourself how to make music

teaching yourself computers teaching

yourself the business side of things

most people don't have a predisposition

just to figure stuff out yeah and that

again when i'm trying to figure out

exactly how you became this global

superstar i'm like that feels to be a

consistent thread throughout your story

as well that learning hunger i think

when you think about what a dj is uh you

know now they're like david guetta

they're headlining festivals or even me

like i'm headlining my own shows but

back when i was growing up

you know

the big dj's from say detroit like uh

the magician or like you know after

bambada people that were djs

were like the selectors they were like

the guys who did all the work to know

what music is there what this music is

how this music exists and they were like

kind of the cultural benchmark they were

the guys who cataloged everything for to

distribute in the scene right um so i

think

i loved that like that was like i wanna

i love music like i love what it is i

loved and i went to parties and i

remember seeing people like quest love

and like cash money and these dj's like

carson baker playing crazy records like

playing fella cootie and then playing

like um

you know a disco record and then playing

something new like a local hip-hop

record and i was like and then they

playing like babe ruth like an old rock

and roll record i was i was so obsessed

with how they could connect these things

that don't make any sense musically and

that's what i always thought was the

great

i think story of what djs do is they're

like guys who can

process all this culture and give it to

you in a certain way and now it's more

streamlined like you're gonna go to

house party hear house music you're

gonna go to like a bastion party here

dance hall but the really special djs

were able to like do everything and so i

think

when i learned that was like a skill set

i started looking at vinyl i started

learning about different music i would

like ask djs what is that record be

playing who are these artists like what

is feather cootie where's

where's nigeria where do they make music

like what's it sound like you know then

i'm like we're the producers like oh uh

the guy from the who went to nigeria and

was a drummer there then he went back

and did this and then oh james brown

heard this guy and then he hired another

drummer this is like became like a web

of music i started to follow everything

and read lander notes and then i just

was obsessed with with gaining all the

knowledge about music whatever i could

and using that to apply to being a dj

that obsession just led me to being a

record collector you know like i said i

traveled a little bit at the end of my

university i went to india with one of

my professors to work on a documentary

and um

the border of pakistan in india is

called uh

in gujarat it was like this this little

uh kind of like a valley called the

round of kuch it was a huge earthquake

there i think around 2000 and i was

there doing some

sort of

building work and you know working with

uh red cross and things like that and

then i just kind of bounced and took a

motorcycle and just went all over india

and just explored my own and i bought a

bunch of vinyl at the time the most

expensive record in the world were these

beetle 78s they were like beetles

records but at

you find good ones in india they only

make money if you find good ones they're

worth like a thousand to a couple

thousand dollars but i was finding

indian soundtracks i was finding things

like

um there's a wreck a classic indian

soundtrack called chalamar with like

crazy like spy themes and like break

beats on it at the time if you find one

of those at a record shop pay like a you

know a couple rupees you could bring it

back to london and sell it at like

poland street for like you know 300

pounds so that was like this weird hack

i found like traveling and buying

records

i did it in india i did it in

philadelphia i would go to new jersey i

go to new york i would buy record old

records and sell it to different

record collectors you know nick quest

loves one of my first guys i sold to i

sold records to kanye west when he first

started producing um

collecting records was like a certain

business and on ebay that was another

hustle i had like selling things that i

buy flea market stuff and selling ebay a

lot of it was vinyl correct

one of the one of the thing to get

things again that's so um obvious and

apparent with you which is kind of a

thread that kind of weaves between many

of my guests specifically comedians for

some reason because comedians they at

some point you see this decision they've

made to like leave the city

leave like

their job in finance and pursue this

thing that has no apparent chance of

making them any money at all but they

just follow this like passionate

obsession they spend a year going up and

down the country working for nothing

because they're obsessed with comedy for

whatever reason and a lot of young

people when they think about being a dj

or an entrepreneur or whatever they

think to themselves okay i want the

admiration of standing there and all

these people clapping for me and the

money yeah but you were so clearly led

by this like unbelievably obsessive

passion which seems actually to be if i

was to say 95 of my guests um followed

one path it would definitely be they

didn't really care about the outcome

they cared about like the passion and

the pursuit of the passion yeah that's

so clear with you right i mean the

beginning was definitely a hustle like i

love music and it saved me from you know

when i even in high school i you know i

moved from different high school to high

school and i didn't have a friend group

so i kind of was like leaning towards i

want to play music but i couldn't my

parents wouldn't buy me a guitar like i

didn't even know how to play i was like

how am i going to learn a guitar you

know i'm going to learn piano

but i like was like djing that's like

the future of music like

my it was like turntablism was really

big i remember being in like 16 being

like i'm gonna buy record players that's

what i'm gonna buy that's like that's

what i'm gonna do as a as like a

creative person

this is like a futuristic way to do

things so

i i leaned into that started learning

what a dj was but in the beginning yeah

i had to do the groundwork to know what

it is i'm going to play like what it is

that the music comes from where was this

music at where do i buy the records what

do the crowds react to

etcetera etcetera so yeah

this formative years i spent time

grinding but then eventually i was like

okay how do i make money out of this and

yes i want to play for a crowd and they

saw my adoration yes i want to meet

girls of course

that happens later and that's another

drive but in the beginning i just i

didn't really expect to have a job out

of it you know

do you think you would have been

as successful as you are if you if

someone had taught you how to make music

and you'd been really mentored by

someone because sometimes that

hurts innovation and creativity if

there's a if convention is too involved

yeah you know what i mean i don't mean

because i see nowadays like kids can

literally learn and copy any style of

music in a day because they have a

tutorial it's so easy it's really easy

and i wish i had that but then at the

same time i wouldn't have i wouldn't

have had such a definitive like who i am

and if i were when people always ask me

when i do radio shows like what advice

you give to young djs and it's like

always the same thing like what makes

yourself unique like what what really

makes you different because i could

throw a rock and i'm going to

hit a dj or artist in the head in london

like there's somebody here it's like

i'm not talking about you

right but it's so easy like

i literally get demos all the time like

what i don't even care i don't even pay

attention i used to actually like try to

listen to demos i'm like this is all the

same like people are doing the same

thing over and over again like

you know whether whatever city you're in

there's like a thing and every once

while you get like a special person that

comes out of nowhere and you're like wow

that's unique like but really what what

is it like for me

you were talking about william faulkner

i really tapped into like my southern

heritage when i was younger i was like

what i loved like miami based music

growing up in florida i loved like um

you know the crunk scene the bouncing in

new orleans i grew up in tennessee for a

couple years so i loved like memphis rap

was like my favorite thing so when i

went to the east coast none of that

stuff was happening like nobody listened

to that music so i was like let me bring

this to the east coast let me start

playing at my parties and it took off

like all this new sounds i brought even

though they were just like a one-hour

flight down south to hear miami-based

music no one listened to it in philly so

i was playing the stuff

mixed with like 80s records and that was

like my brand i was the guy that was

like doing this mashup culture

and so nobody else had that party there

was like urban parties they'd be playing

hip-hop there would be you know rock and

roll parties playing like glam rock and

you could dance to it there would be

like

high-end parties playing house music but

nobody was playing for like the art

school kids and the hipsters the time

because it was pre-hipster it wasn't a

word yet and i was like that's my market

and i was like no one's tapped into this

let me go ahead and do this you know in

every style my every every little

venture i've done as a musician has been

like why is the one in this market like

even when i do major laser

it was like reggae and dancehall we were

doing but nobody was really doing it in

the clubs in america there was like if

you go to like philly you want to see

vibes cartel you you have to go to like

this one

ghetto club in like lancaster and it's

like only jamaicans there and i'm like

this is such crazy music like why don't

we do this on another level like why

don't we work with some of these artists

and do bigger records and so i was like

no one's doing dance hall let's do it

this project so everywhere i went i was

like

experimenting like what how do i do this

and kind of make it my own or how do i

like work this into my sets

and um it's been like a journey you know

this is 20 years now i'm doing this

since i played at my first show at

fabric

and it feels like

i've done so many

if you're a fan of mine and you follow

me for 20 years it's a really tough

journey because it's like i've done

you're gonna go to reggae music you're

gonna go to country music now you're

gonna go to deep house you're gonna go

this way that's way but a few people

actually go with me and follow my career

so um

you know i think that's what makes me a

one-of-a-kind person i guess so back to

my my point when young people give me

ask me questions of like what is it to

what kind of advice i can give you i'm

like what

find like a really unique thing and just

and just lean into that lean into that

so hard like figure out even if it feels

weird just make it make sense you know

make it make it work for you because

otherwise you're just going to be one

and one of a hundred like clones of

different djs different rappers if it

feels weird is that sometimes also an

indication that there's a big

opportunity there because it's it's yet

to break or it's yet to be discovered so

like weirdness might be a 100 yeah more

now than ever back then it was like i

mean even djs wasn't a thing when i

started doing it like you would you

wouldn't dj being a dj wasn't a career

it was like there's a few guys on the

radio

in europe is different there was a dj

culture here but in america there wasn't

like a job description called dj like

you wouldn't think there wasn't djs on

the radio weren't they weren't featuring

on their music

um

now it's pretty commonplace but

but

just being dj was unique for me but

nowadays

since there's so much

information all the time so much media

there's so much artists

fighting for

your eyeballs and your ears on tick tock

and instagram it's more than ever

important to have something like wow

i gotta go look at that again because

it's like just having a catchy hook's

not enough

everybody has a cat like there's a

thousand catchy hooks you can just go

and buy them literally at the market

it's like not special

one thing that really surprised me about

you as well is that you're

quite um

i don't know whether this is humble

about your talent but when i've seen in

multiple interviews when you're asked

what the biggest misconception is about

you one of them you said is that that

i'm talented

and i've heard you say a number of times

that you're faking it or that you're

still

looking for the some kind of like

validation that you're a real you know

and even at the start this conversation

you said i'm not technically the best or

yeah what is that is that impostor

syndrome what is that

no i think i've always been like more of

a conceptual artist like you know i

think of music and concepts i think of

music as like oh

it's like a math problem you know like

how does this add to this how do i make

it work you know it's always been like a

riddle every time i try to think of like

what to combine things

now it's a little easier because i'm

like i'm doing this kind of dance album

and i know exactly what works because

i'm using these records and i'm making

you know collaborations with friends of

mine artists but when i was younger i

literally my first album was called uh

florida it was on it was on ninja tune

and it's so weird like i remember being

just like so stoned and just up

and like making this record

and like

people still hit me back like that

record was a classic i'm like what are

you talking about it was like crazy

chaos it was like me just like in my

room in orlando like trying to figure

out how to i wasn't even things weren't

even in key like i'm sampling on this

like two channel little like a kai s20

sampler like that thing worked and

um

laying things out like if you know

anything about dws like workstations

like they're so complex like logic

ableton back then you used something

called cool edit pro and there wasn't

even like a piano roll or anything i

just had like windows like photoshop

when you just like i just layered

the loops on top of each other and

sequenced it in one long window because

i couldn't it was just it was the worst

way to work ever but i learned this

ass backwards way that kind of gave me a

little

flavor i guess

but i never was like a

a a musician you know like i never i

never mastered an instrument and i

always thought djing i never was a good

turntable it's like i mean if you put me

in my room with like a track or like dj

craze that's embarrassing those guys are

like

they're like magicians you know but

i thought

i'm the guy with like ideas and how do i

apply those ideas and it became easy

with as the technology advanced like i'm

like oh these programs make it a lot

easier for me i don't need to like play

my midi keyboard i don't need to be

scott storch you know i can just like

literally

see the audio ableton's my favorite sc

audio and i can work with raw audio it's

my mind works that way

so

i think

yeah i'm more of a conceptual person

than i am like a a like a

digital auteur even with even with

production i mean i always say like

skrillex is like the guy that blew my

mind like he uses like a computer like a

like a grand piano like he just does

it's the craziest thing he does you know

it's so i think there's people that are

in my generation that are like those

savants and i'm not that but i i kind of

mixed

my talent for new

new sounds and a talent for songwriting

to make

like who i am

but but to say that you're you're faking

it

and uh i mean maybe it was a joke but

yeah to describe it as

the biggest misconception i've been

talking about djing because i mean

literally it's probably like the most uh

it's people will ask me like how to you

know like how to do it or to do it it's

such a you can learn in 10 minutes like

how to do the technical sides you know

um

was i thinking that i mean no because at

the end of the day

what i think makes dj special that i

explained earlier is that you have this

hit you have to have history that's what

makes it special i think it's why you

have dj careers in in london especially

these guys are like david rodigan you

know he's like a guy who's like

in his like late 60s i'm hoping agent

maybe

but he's been doing this since he was

interviewing bob marley like he's a and

he still rocks parties playing like

selecting the perfect records because he

has

the skill set like he knows exactly he

can read a crowd in like southwest

london he can go to jamaica he can go to

like

italy you could play the right songs the

right time so

um there's something intrinsically

beautiful about you know being a dj but

yeah some things it feels like i'm

faking it but i mean even in the

beginning

i faked it to like

get get in the studio you know that's

what i did to like to to have my foot in

the door you know

quick one as the seasons have begun to

change so has my diet and um

right now i'm just going to be

completely honest with you i'm starting

to think a lot about

slimming down a little bit because over

the last couple of probably the last

four or five months my diet has been

pretty bad um and it started to show a

little bit really over the last two

months i go to the gym about 80 of the

time so i track it with 10 of my friends

in a whatsapp group and this tracker

online that we all use together we call

it fitness blockchain and i'm currently

at 81 percent

um so 81 of the days i've done a workout

in the last 150 days right so i'm going

to the gym about six times a week

that's been a little bit impacted by the

derivatio live tour but i'm trying to

stick to it

and so one of the things i'm doing now

to reduce my calorie intake and trying

to get back to being nutritionally

complete and all i eat is i'm having the

heel protein shake thank you for making

a product that i actually like the

salted caramel is my favorite i've got

the banana one here which is the one my

girlfriend likes but for me salted

caramel is

the one when you are asked about your

creative process i i was looking through

the huge wealth of traveling that you've

done

brazil

india um spent time in london and

various parts of the world um how

formative is travel and going to these

different cultures and understanding the

way they do things to what the art you

ultimately created because when i think

about creativity from a marketing

standpoint i see it as like pulling

together lots of little pieces to form

something new and you you have because

of your obsession with the vinyls and

the musics and the samples you seem to

have this like huge wealth of like

artistic reference points yeah to create

new stuff from i'm just obsessed with

the conversation that's like happening

all over the world like you know whether

i go to brazil or are you london's a

good example where you have this like

pan-african jamaican caribbean and then

like

you know european thing happening that's

like drone based that's like funky

that's like

um now it's drill like there's all these

genres that if you look look into it why

it exists you can literally pinpoint the

first creators and like where they come

from and like why is it like

why do they make this kind of sound so i

was always like putting together the

equations like why are these things

happening and brazil's my favorite place

to to talk about because

i was hearing this music it was called

funk karaoke for a long time those girls

that were doing a party in philly and i

remember they gave me a mixtape and it

was this like sound that was a mix of

miami bass and samba and like heavy

metal because they're screaming songs

there's bass beats but they're using

like these tamborzino like drums

yeah so i was like what the is this

i like literally couldn't find any

information on this music

so i went to i went to i went to brazil

and i actually had a magazine fund this

trip it was it was an article for fader

magazine and i went down there i met the

big djs and i just became immersed in

that scene you know producing with some

of those guys learning to produce with

them

and um

[Music]

moving that sound forward a little bit i

think my first real real production was

with mia it was called bucky dungun and

it was a it was a funk record that we

did and remember we actually went back

to brazil and played it at this huge

festival it was like a massive hit in

brazil and actually helped i think maybe

validate some of the funk music in

brazil because before that it was like a

rio thing and it became like a

all over the country they were starting

and now if you go to brazil like funk

music is the most commercial thing back

then 20 years ago it was like a pretty

underground

genre and um

but yeah everywhere i go i'm like i want

to learn more once i learned like all

the catalog all the old producers from

you know jazz funk and soul and

hip hop then i'm like the rest of the

world is there's like endless

possibilities of where music comes from

and what's going on so i started like

venturing out there

in terms of your crazy process as well

you

in two different interviews i saw you

talk about creating music that lasts a

lifetime like really timeless pieces of

art and the question that i had when i

saw you say that was like how do you do

that how do you how can you even

anticipate that a music a piece of music

is going to be timeless is there

something in the design of it or the

inspiration or the story there's a

there's a few times in the studio and

i'm like a song i might be working on

gives me goosebumps you know that that

happens um

it was like when i did the we did justin

bieber's wear you now like something

like that like just was like well what

the hell are we doing

and then like lean on from major laser

that was a record that i've probably

spent

one year on the production you know

because i did so many different videos

like no this isn't right now this isn't

what's happening right now this is i

need to do something as a producer my

job is to predict the future like when i

release this record after i make it it's

going to take like three months to

actually get

to the people you know because it's like

you need to go with labels clearing the

record it can't just be like back then

they would make a edit and dj it and it

was like hitting people right up but my

little local neighborhood but a

producer's job is literally like try to

like at least mine my forte's always

been like

how can i do something that's going to

be big in like six months or like a year

like kind of like being futuristic

sounding because that's what the big

that's what the greats have always done

you know prince or timberland or

pharrell they've always made records

that trendset because they were so

futuristic so my goal has always been to

follow them never to follow a trend um

and those two records were ones that we

did and we're like yes this is going to

work even though it's crazy or

even palm the floor i remember listening

that and driving around in the car um

that was the song i did for major laser

and we're driving around la and looking

at the guy who produced me named switch

and we were just like

this is is this gonna work it was so

crazy like we were just like this is so

wild and then

and then yeah like four years later

beyonce sampled that record and it

became a massive hit so there was like

my career has always had these little

moments where we do things and then they

the ramifications happen later you know

you feel the effects you know the seeds

like you said

um

but yeah having classics is important i

think a couple times you know when

you're on you're in it and you're like

okay this is this is worth the time this

is worth the effort because

learning songwriting with some of the

great guys like um

you know dr luke saw my publishing in

the beginning and having been in the

studio with him and circuit and a lot of

his writers i was like man you've spent

three days on like a second verse like

this is what you do now

that's what pop music is like you

literally like if you think a record is

the big record

you it's it's so painstakingly like like

the effort is so concise like how to

make this the best record ever like

everything is like a

perfect addition like an architect like

every little corner of the house has got

to be perfect right so i learned that

process which i don't do very often but

when a record is big i follow through

and otherwise

just do a ton of records one of

them is going to be good too that's

another process you can do which also i

can do that too like just put you know

randomly i put records out and record

like on my mind

which is another house records on my

album that was a huge tick tock record

which

would never you would never guess like

you can't even guess when those records

happen

yeah so because you can't guess when

one's going to be a winner and maybe

one's not going to catch on

as a creative do you kind of try and

not

harm your piece by trying to predict too

much what the outcome's going to be do

you just focus on the process itself and

like how much can you can you predict if

something's going to be a i mean there's

a lot of like in this like we're talking

about being in the studio so like i said

there's a process like to making a great

record but there's also like diplomacy

when you're in this when you're a

producer like you have to know the

artists like you know

ed sheeran you have an extra record we

can try to work on and then he gives you

songwriting and that's how like a record

like cold water happened was another uh

bieber song i did

and then you're like okay how do can we

ask bieber's manager can he maybe do

this record we'll do a trade for

production okay then that deals in the

place then okay who can play the guitar

on this oh you find that person so

sometimes it's literally like

being like a an ambassador like talking

all these people try to put a record

together too like that's another process

that i had to learn and that's something

else like when a record's already done

like you take a song and you dress up

the production you still have to

find the like all the keys to make that

record work

um

so it's like

every record is a different journey you

know and now with dance music i'm

literally just in the studio

hearing records and trying to figure out

what sound i want to make for a live

effect and then i apply that in the

studio

but um i've literally probably every

kind of songwriting you can do i've i've

done it you know from like sitting with

acoustic guitar with madonna to

you know recording sound field

recordings in a favela or uh

you know

paying for a studio session for a

regular artist with like my last little

bit of money in philly like it's at uh

at um

you know the root studio and like barely

getting a hook and then it was not even

good enough to making something out of

that later you know like it's always

like it could be collections of vocals

or sample packs everything i've done you

know i've tried it you know what's the

cost of all of this in terms of on your

maybe cost is a bit of a presumption but

what's the the sacrifice or the cost in

terms of like personal life balance

because i think you're obsessed you're

obsessed with no i think i i wasn't i

was probably running at like 200 miles

an hour until cove it happened i don't

think i would ever take a break and that

was probably the best thing that

happened like when i got one coveted

when the lockdown happened and i

couldn't do shows like let me

actually buy a house and let me actually

like you know like

figure out what's my next steps in life

i kind of needed that break so i was

just going to do everything was

breakneck speed you know it was like the

grammys this weekend oh you have a

session with this person speaking about

we gotta get back on this i gotta go to

jamaica and do this it's like everything

was happening i never said no to anybody

i was like this is crazy i was like

you know a musician has the same life as

i have as an athlete you have like a

peak you know

if you're a linebacker in nfl football

your career is like maybe three or four

years because you're getting beat up a

quarterback can play for you know

tilly's 44. um

a producer or artist like they're just

hot for as long as they're hot and then

they

have to find that they have to come down

some of them can just continue to always

go there like you know you have like

people that are just always going to be

in your mind like madonna or

you know um

some of the big pop stars like taylor

swift every record is going to perform

but a lot of times you like on borrow

time you don't know when you're when

you're when your window's going to close

so for me i was like i got to keep going

keep going and i never i feel like i

never had hit my my peaks i was like

let's keep pushing it forward and

eventually i was like you know what this

isn't that important like let me like

actually enjoy my life i have three kids

now

i want to like do things i want to want

to you know explore more but not think

about the work i want to do things that

maybe benefit

my my mind and i think that's kind of

what

the the last two years of downtime has

given me even though i did produce a lot

of records in between it was on my own

terms you know i wasn't like chasing all

the live events and i wasn't chasing all

the different uh successes i could have

had um covered was very much the same

experience for me it's actually why i

resigned from my company because i i

actually got to look at my life it was

like when when i stopped flying

eight times a month um i got to look at

my life and um i also got to feel what

it was like to slow down and talk to my

friends my family a little bit when you

think about your pre-covered life um now

you've got the hind the benefit of

hindsight and you've had time to pause

um

were you happy in that phase of your

life

i was because

it's weird i mean

i was losing touch with thing other

people i felt that so i was like very

insular but my life

i run the best like when it's chaos when

i'm doing 300 shows a year and i'm like

getting up and doing the emails and

going to the gym and then i'm like this

is like i just i just work under

pressure i don't know what it is it's

like my my like my best forte is is to

have

just chaotic stuff happening all the

time and i'm like somehow i can get

through it so i was into that and i was

like this is a very unhealthy way to

live

um

so now it feels like i'm back on a promo

tour and it feels like i'm back on this

like fast track a fast track and i'm

like i

kind of want cove a little bit but then

you know it's all part of the process

because you put a record out it's

important for people to hear it you know

you only have one chance for records to

be released and it's like you should

give that if you have a great song you

should give it every opportunity it has

to reach people because that's it's it's

one shot you know

um but don't waste your time on every

song like you have a good song i got

this one the song miguel that we're

promoting i'm like this song's worth the

work you know other songs may be like

i'll put them out and maybe something

will happen you don't never know maybe

it's in three months

there'll be like a dancing to it

on tick tock or something and like it'll

be it's a crazy experience or something

and it goes viral you never know what's

gonna happen it's like just rolling the

dice every time but every once while

there are some steps you can take to

ensure a record has its best chance at

surviving you know

and that's like what you're doing now

right like the promo yeah putting effort

behind it um just so then so so covert

happens your world kind of grinds to how

everybody's does and you probably find

yourself in a house somewhere

alone yeah how's that then in terms of

mental health and dealing with the

sudden stop i i think

uh i mean the the thing that sucked the

worst about code is to have

these children and like it was a time i

was like man i can do whatever i want

but there's nothing to do

like you couldn't go to l.a we closed

the parks for so long because there was

no school like you know there's no

birthday parties you can't go see other

kids like it was just kind of like it's

almost like a a waste opportunity i had

like a whole year to do my kids i was

like what do we even find time to do

it's like i buy a house with basketball

courts in the house just play basketball

like it was like literally i made an

environment for them to enjoy life

but um i think

honestly i've been doing this for so

long and i've made a really great team

around me like i have these great women

that like are like that always work with

me and like work for me and i think

it just feels like it's a big family

like now you know like people like it's

a team whether it's like on my

management side or just like my personal

side it's like i have people that are

always looking in my best interests and

i think

i got lucky i was i've been doing that

since day one like my first manager

worked for me for free for the first

year because he just like believed in

what i did i was like i don't need a

manager i was making so much money

before i pay taxes like just selling

mixtapes and djing like i was like

i bought i bought a property in

philadelphia like in my first year of

like learning how to hustle the system

of being a dj and then i was like damn

but there's he was like there's there's

more to be done though like he's like

there's more you can do than just living

in philly and like buying being the

biggest dj here and i think he gave me

that that motivation to like be bigger

and from him you know another management

group happened and then i've had a lucky

journey i've been the same with the same

team for you know 20 years

a lot of people don't get that i also

think i was very visionary in what i

want to do so if you're like a young

person like you get sucked up by

management or whatever they might have a

vision for you or they might not or they

might not have the right vision for you

or they might not give you the room to

be yourself

then you're going to switch like 40

managers and you might not ever find you

know the success you need so it's

important to find people

you know

that really believe in you but also let

you be yourself because you got to find

that because you're going to be that's

all you got at the end of the day you

can lose a million managers and a

million people but you can always start

over and just be you reminded me of the

avicii documentary that i saw which was

a real pivotal moment in my life because

um

yeah so i spent four weeks at home in

2019 and i was very much being dragged

around we had a thousand employees so i

was being dragged around the place and

that documentary taught me the

importance of saying no to stuff 100

like i beat you i feel like i never his

he was probably like one of my biggest

influences even though it's younger than

me i remember hanging out with a couple

times i was just like man this guy

this guy's a genius but like he doesn't

feel like he's he's in his own skin you

know because i don't think he ever had

that chance to be who he be

be what he wanted to be he was like

he was almost like a became like a

machine because his success happened so

quick

um but that happens a lot that's like

the one story to the dj world but in the

pop world

happens like way too much i think

are you good at saying your stuff no i

say yes everything but i'm also like i

have really thick skin i feel like my

personality is enormous i can also like

i can i can find my way through things i

always say yes and then i'll say no for

the next time if it sucks but yeah i've

done everything you know and i'm like uh

you know

this isn't the right thing i move on or

even if it's a studio session i might go

get breakfast and i might never come

back you know whatever it is i'll give

everything a chance you know but uh

i know

i know now

some things you know my management knows

me now to where they something don't

even get to me the questions aren't even

going to come because they know it's

like a no or they know i'll say yes it

was a bad it'll be a bad yes

thick skin yeah you started talking a

lot about mental health over the last

couple years your partnership with calm

as well i was reading about um

mental health in the djing world but

mental health amongst men anyway what's

your journey been with your own mental

health

i think you know just being put as like

a

you know whatever

celebrity or whatever it is

being attention always on you

is you're gonna have so many critics and

you're gonna have so many you know the

love is cool but nobody really cares

about like all the adoration you get you

care about the people that don't like

you and that you get caught up in that

even if it's only like

five percent but they really want to be

vocal about they don't like you or they

don't love you uh that bothers you no

matter who who you are you know

eventually i had to just like wow these

people suck like just whatever you're

gonna it's you're never gonna get away

from those

the people that like

want to always be critics you know they

just want to get a rise out of you i

think

eventually you just got to say

it the people that around me their

opinions what matters like the people

that i trust and you can't like kind of

sit in the opinion of people that don't

either don't know you or

maybe build an opinion about you from

you know whatever it is because when it

comes to social media

it's like a game you know it's not like

you it's it's look i was talking about

conor mcgregor earlier today i'm like

he's like the biggest heel his most paid

athlete last year even though he didn't

fight because he's like people love to

hate him you know so he built a brand

out of just being that person um

but you got to take it with you got to

take the good and the bad with it i mean

if you if you want to be in this

business which is like i guess show

business like you said the comedians the

dj's i'm like kind of like a popular dj

i'm more like a like a people i go to my

shows and i even know my music because

they know my brand and that kind of

sucks because you don't you don't know

if they don't know who they're gonna get

but um because i'm on that pedestal

you're just gonna get

eyes on you for everything so i feel

like

you just have to if you want if you want

the success if you want to be at this

level you got to like just take it and

if i didn't want it i would just back up

you know but i can take it so i feel

like it's something i had to learn to

grow into myself and just be like okay

be comfortable because what really

matters is my team you know who my

family thinks about me what my

team thinks about me and i think that's

those people give you that motivation to

go every day have you made a conscious

effort to like shorten

that

circle by like logging off i read

somewhere that someone else has your

twitter password now and you don't

really have it and have you made a

conscious sense yeah i've been on

twitter in like five years but i think

um yeah it kind of sucks i hit or miss

because i mean even tic talk i was like

slow to do that but then like i said if

you want your if you want your

your brand to exist it's got to be there

like because that's like you know

there's more eyeballs on tick tock than

they're on youtube nowadays so you

really

you have to be part of that conversation

with the audience um

it took me a while like how to find

people that actually could help me run

that because i couldn't do it myself and

i couldn't be

you know in every day long like

videotaping and doing dances or whatever

so how to find different ways to make

those things work for myself um it

wasn't easy in the beginning

but uh yeah i don't stay on i don't stay

on social too much but then of course

during this album cycle i'm on there and

i'm like

having to always participate but

you know luckily

i think i've got great fans i've got

great people get great response to my

album it wasn't that difficult but

every once in a while you have to get

you take your mind off it because you

can get caught up you know

well what made you start talking about

mental health and

being a bit of an advocate for that you

said that a lot of people should speak

about it a lot more why did that

inspiration probably after the avicii

situation and then you know i work with

a lot of rappers i think i had i had a

hip-hop album that came out like two

years ago three years ago maybe four

years ago it's called california and i

had a little zan and i had a little peep

on it and i had um trippy red and i had

i was working with xxxtentation i just

remember

i did this whole circuit working all

these young rappers they were like

really young they were like 19 20 and

the studio sessions were so weird and

crazy and then

start these these rappers all started to

die like they all started like you know

little peep overdosed on um opiates and

you know x was was shot

but he also had such a crazy

vision on life and experiences and his

he was like went through so much and i

saw i saw what was happening to these

young guys

because they were getting so

popular so quick and i was really

i just i just like damn

these guys all need like a big brother

so i think just with those guys a lot of

them i was helping them out making

decisions but

just seeing how crazy it is to be a 20

year old right now is is much more

difficult than when i was there you know

when i was there you literally had

your group of friends and that's all you

knew the people on your street now

everybody knows who you are or can know

you who you are or have have some kind

of opinion about you and

i think you have to find ways to

like i said earlier block that out and

just concentrate on like being the best

you which sounds like a cliche but

you really have to compete with just

yourself every day not everybody else

one of the things i saw in that vichy

doc as well was he was suffering with

pretty severe anxiety i remember the

scenes of him being in that hotel room

and his manager saying we've got to go

and him saying i i'm not going yeah have

you ever felt that anxiety have you ever

felt that that kind of crippling

no i think you know

i've i deal like people like close my

life have anxiety and they have a tax

law and i have to

talk them down sometimes um so i know

how how it feels and that's just like in

the day-to-day life

me i feel like i still like the stage

i've never been and i've also like i

said i've also made a a a concerted

effort to make the team like make me

comfortable you know that much

documentary i'm not going to talk about

like the people on team but like they

just like

they just didn't care like no one cared

about him or what he was feeling i

remember being at shows i was like he

played before in vegas and he would be

just missing he would play like two

hours later

and he would have to get up to

get on stage because he just couldn't do

it he couldn't be up there it couldn't

be on a pedestal and i feel like i could

feel that way sometimes like on this

tour you know just jet lag alone you're

like

like nodding out at dinner and you're

like i gotta go be excited for this

crowd

and um

i'm really good at like

making that work for myself now so these

people oh you know

i owe them this experience but yes

i take a lot more time for myself now

like i'm like i don't this i don't need

to do these anymore i'm telling them

like this is this is over for me this is

like something i would do three years

ago it's important to to take that

that away that will out of the equation

i'll feel a lot better but yeah you got

to make those personal choices and you

got to

like i said people that are that are

hungry like me and you that just that

when they get on the train they're just

like going full throttle you do need

something to say like okay it's it's

okay to like not go 100 miles an hour

all the time you can like go like at a

strolling pace or something and i guess

for you from what i read a lot of that

was your kids as well right yeah when

you when when your first child was born

you talked about that being a really

pivotal moment it taught you that type

the value of time and i think my first

kid when i had my first son lock it i

just

i was like i went i actually went faster

so i was like i did i was like also as a

father

your kids i was like

did i found a connection with my sons

when i was they were like five and four

years old when they were like because

really the mother's like everything

they're not leaving her sight they're

not around they're not they don't really

give a about like their fathers i

felt like that in the beginning of my

son but so i was like i got a kid now my

life's about to get really complicated

and i i think all my my best work

happened around them because you said

time management was like okay

i have like saturday sunday or have like

wednesday off i'm gonna go to the studio

for 16 hours every other day because i

don't want to do anything else this is

the time i have like those five years i

did all of my biggest records

and my next time was born and my time

got even crazier

and then um

[Music]

he just kind of like like i said you got

to manage time better each time like you

gotta

gotta figure out how to make it work

i'm still figuring it out you know now

my boys are entering like the teenagers

like they're 11

7.

so they're asking me questions now that

they never would before like i'm like

having to give them like

you know boy man advice which i was like

this is cool they're having

conversations that

i can relate to them as much as they can

relate to me before it was like we just

baby shark and

legos and stuff

when you um talking about

your three boys when you you did this

really sweet post um giving a bit of a

shout out to their mothers and in that

sentence you said i'm still a work in

progress and i was really intrigued by

that why did you say i'm still a work in

progress as it relates to a post about

the mothers and your boys i think

because you know my my boys i want them

to to i want them

like i want to instill in the same

discipline that my father has given me

you know which i don't know how to do

that like i don't think my father knew

either like he had i remember going to

my father's rooms and he would have like

books about like

being the best dad you know like i

remember like i was like well i was like

and i think that about till i was later

i'm like damn

maybe i should check that book out you

know like i'm like i was seeing silly

when i was younger

but i think being the person i am i'm

also like this like like i said my

personality is so big that i feel like

i'm kind of alpha even for my children

like i'm like when i when i'm off break

i'm like let's go snowboarding let's go

to the basketball court and they're just

like dad

relax like we want to watch tv or

something you know i'm like and i'm like

why don't they want to do all this stuff

with me like i'm like they think i'm

like the crazy person that comes over

and like takes them away to do crazy

stuff all the time and it's like

it's a big distraction in their life a

lot of times so i've got to figure out

how to like

be with them you know more than just be

there

in saying sports dad i gotta like be

their their their friend too

so that's like what i'm talking about

things like that when you

you know just even like sitting with my

son

my seven-year-old and like watching

cartoons or watching him play minecraft

on his ipad is so much more important

than him if i do that for an hour then

like take him on like a trip to nepal or

something which i've done you know like

it's like they're like they remember

that but they actually remember this

time and on the couch with me a lot more

i feel like

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hold tremendous meaning and they are

really well made the other thing that we

were talking about just then is this um

just came to mind is when i had

olympians on this podcast they talked to

me about this thing called gold medal

depression and israelita sanjay came

here the ufc champion um two weeks ago

and he said that the worst day of his

life was the day after he won the belt

yeah he said he went straight into

therapy and i i saw a similar tone and a

similar narrative and when you spoke

about

in fact some of the worst days are

the day after the high yeah

and then you you actually said that you

have to kind of suppress the high 100 to

avoid the low yeah always

so i feel like it gets addicting

because i mean like israel healing he

has like what like two big fights a year

like i'm like doing like which is i'm

not knocking him because these are

amazing but

um i have to do like 250 like shows you

know like sometimes and every night

might be bigger some nights might be

lame

you got to just take it straight every

once i'm like damn that was awesome and

i'm like appreciate the like

you have to have gratitude for that but

i mean if it's going to be your

lifestyle

every night people are always like you

don't drink when you're dj i'm like i'm

djing like 200 nights a year i can't be

drunk

i'll be dead like it's like it's like i

don't know it's like not even why even

asking that question it's like this is

still a job for me i found ways to like

have energy and like have this feeling

and like it's like it's actually i think

it's mental work to do that

but you always

if you're just going to be like in these

peaks and valleys all the time that's

not healthy and i see a lot of people

that are other creators and

it's crazy but like the best creators

are really like have bipolar tendencies

i've noticed that like some of my my

favorite people i collaborate with i've

noticed they have

and some of them aren't addressing it

and it's like it leads to

their six their failures in some parts i

always see like i think my

the most creative people like have are

always dealing with that you know either

whether it was bowie or uh other djs

like i see that a lot and my peers

and

i think it's important to

because they love that high too they're

chasing that hive like that experience

you know

it's just like a drug like having like

fans you know scream being at a festival

but

eventually you just kind of like drown

out the noise and just figure out

just

make it more of a job

because you can't just live like

every night's like the biggest party of

your life you know because then it will

be there's going to be a big downer and

you've changed yourself you said you

trained yourself to be like present and

energetic without letting the adrenaline

fill your body and then staying up till

7am oh so yeah it's so hard it's hard to

sleep you know like when you do a show

like i'm leaving vegas i'm doing like

the great party we like do one to three

a.m and i'm like have a little vibe

after the show and then it's like damn i

gotta go back so i gotta be up at nine

to take my kids i'm like

how do you like wind down because that's

really hard to do too i had the tiniest

dose of this we took this podcast we

made it a musical and we did three

nights at the palladium

and then

so i i started going to sleep at 7 00 am

so i'd come off stage at the play maybe

midnight come back here and i'd sit here

at the table just like it's impossible

that's why i'm touching this coffee yeah

i'm

so you have to literally

i think you have to take in strides

you know because it's always going to be

i think

i think deep down inside of me if i like

lose

all of the if i label drop me i couldn't

make music anymore i'm not djing i don't

really you know like i've i flopped so

hard

i feel like i can start over again

that's like something i feel inside me

okay maybe i would be like i love

furniture maybe i'll be a carpenter

whatever it is that's the thing i'm

saying i just feel like i feel like or

pizza maker whatever it is i always feel

like if you have that feeling inside you

that you can lose everything and be okay

with it that's

maybe that's the key to success then you

know it's all this is just like a facade

like it's really like i'll be

comfortable as long as i get to do

something i love again it doesn't have

to be huge don't be rich but i feel like

any moment if i got taken away i have my

family i have my kids and i'm

i'll gladly go and do something

with them and

live a humble life i always feel like

i'm that's some i'm ready for that you

know and your new album this is what 20

years into your career now and it's your

second full-length yeah album since like

florida yeah that's that's happened

because

uh

once i started going to this studio in

l.a i was like this you don't make solo

albums like florida you make albums for

other people

you know i'm just a dj i'm like a brand

this brand is limited to some a level

but if i work on britney spears album

well i can make this much money or i can

make a hit that streams like this or if

i do this album and it wasn't until i

think we did a major laser i was like

okay well at least i can own this

project also and make the same

size records

and take all of it you know that became

kind of like just

the business side of it i was like this

is

a lot

better you know now and this i think

finally dipped those to the point where

like okay i have no other brands to put

it in this is going to be my records now

kind of like that's kind of how this

album happened because that's still it's

a dance album but i worked on it

as a songwriter you know because you

hear the songs

they got verse chorus verse they're not

straight techno records they're not

straight

acid records they're just like they're

kind of built like pop records

20 years in um

releasing this album what are you sick

of

in the process in the industry what are

you just like i hate this uh i

think going through heathrows like

the liquids come on like what is up with

that

if i could not travel ever again that

was i mean i literally had to spend like

30 minutes there yesterday because like

i was like they were looking for this

one

tiny eye cream that was in the bottom of

a freaking i was like bro you can have

all this stuff just take it take it away

from you

but the travel is the worst you know i

wish i could teleport to each show but

uh it's that's probably the worst thing

if i could just not if i could just

sit home

i also got a really nice house now in

malibu so i'm like don't want to go on

tour anymore i kind of want to sit there

i love i love the when i was on twitch i

was djing

it's cool i've been in europe in three

years so it's

you know it's actually feels brand new

to me

in this in this line of work

the whole audience changes like every

three years too

like kids that were ravers they go to

clubs when they're 24 when they're 27

they got full-time jobs and their little

cousins have been i've done like

it's 20. i've done like seven of those

generations i feel like and they're

still coming out and seeing me play so

i've been really lucky based on the life

you've lived when your three boys get to

you know 16 18 years old and they come

to you and say

dad i need advice on like what i should

pursue how do i become successful what

is the general advice is there anything

that stands out to you or is it just

man i will take them on the road with me

i guess that's the only thing i can do

it's the best that's the best advice i

can give them like this is what i do

every day just so you know you think i'm

like

doing some crazy i actually have to

wake up and go to the gym they have to

go we're doing some press and promo they

have to get ready for the show we're

gonna do dinner with a promoter as a

nice favor and we're gonna go to the

concert oh there's appearance afterwards

this is what i do and i go back in the

morning i'm going to studio first thing

in the morning just to show them what a

tight what it takes like and this is

like you know 10 years in just let them

know it's

what the process is like that's the best

i can do i can actually show them that

you know a lot of kids wouldn't have

that wouldn't have their parents to give

them something like that

um

but yeah that's what i trained with

george foreman junior he's a he's a

boxing

trainer and his father he said that he

didn't really understand anything about

life till his father took him to the on

the road to see him fight and took him

to like the gym sessions and how much

work he did and i was in the middle of

like george's like uh the griddle he was

doing the former grill era

and um he said it just like

something clicked inside of him they

changed him inside why the gym you've

mentioned that twice is that because oh

because i think i just i actually every

day i have to go to the gym it's like

the one thing that i have to do to like

make me feel

like normal

because i

the jet lag for one but then i also