What if I told you one of the greatest

media companies in the world didn't

start in Hollywood? It started with

three college friends. No billion-dollar

investors, no famous last names, just an

idea and the belief that imagination

could become a business. Today, my guest

has helped create some of the biggest

children's brands on Earth. Paw Patrol,

Bakugan, Airhogs, Tech Decks.

Collectively, they've entertained

hundreds of millions of kids around the

world. But this conversation isn't about

the toys. It's about building

intellectual property. It's about

creating brands that outlive trends. And

it's about why some entrepreneurs don't

just build products, they build worlds.

I'm Ian Schwarzman and this is Built

Different.

We're here with a very special guest,

Renan Harrari. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for

having me on.

>> Co-founder of Spin Master, umbrella of

incredible products, IP, toys, and

everything else that distracted me

through my childhood.

Okay, I have a real question for you.

>> Go for it.

>> You built something that's its own

world, right? And in order to create

some of these things, you have to

disappear into your own mind. And most

children with normal childhoods are

outside playing,

>> right?

>> So I'm asking is that and you don't have

to get into

>> No, I'm you know, I'm an open book. You

know, my family is actually were classic

immigrants. My family is originally

Bulgarian

>> and they were displaced in the Second

World War.

>> Okay.

>> And our family was there for

generations. Classic immigrants, they're

surviving, right? So I I grew up like as

a as a latch key kid, like a freerange

chicken. Definitely like the upgrading

in terms of like roof over your head,

you got food on the table. Uh but my

parents were classic entrepreneurs and

>> yeah, they were both entrepreneurs. My

dad had a Purden carpet gallery in

Toronto. My mom worked at the gallery.

We had dinner as a family every night

6:30 on time. Um and all the discussions

were about the business. So the benefit

was like I was you was Yeah. So, and

then the other thing that was very

impactful for me when I was a kid, I got

identified with a learning disability at

10 years old. So, I have disgraphia,

which makes it really hard for me to

write and express my thoughts and for my

thoughts to come out through my hands.

So, I was like the specialed kid and I

got extra time on my exams, but I grew

up with a lot of shame around the

learning disability and um but it was in

a sense it was a gift because I grinded

my way through school and it taught me

that basically everything's possible in

life if you stick with it. So, what made

you turn to creative at 23?

>> Listen, I was chomping at the bit to I

knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur

at 10 years old. It was really a result

of the learn disability because I I I

knew intuitively from a young age that

that becoming a a doctor, a lawyer, or

an accountant was not going to be

possible for me.

>> Why do our parents they just want us to

be doctors and lawyers and like what is

that?

>> I don't know. Like I want to have fun.

And I I I remember when he said that to

me when I was out, I'm like, "Mom, I

want to work in music or entertainment

or something, right? I don't want to go

be a lawyer."

>> I didn't want to be a lawyer either. And

and uh that's why when I graduated, I

was like so super excited to start this

business. You know, I actually started a

business in university, okay,

>> with my business partner, Anton. It was

called Campus Faces. We take pictures of

kids during frost week, sell advertising

around the perimeter, print up 9,000

posters for free. And uh we graduated

with no debt, $10,000 in the bank. And

then

>> both of you guys paid your college

tuition selling advertising space.

>> Yeah, we did it for three years. We were

roing $100,000 at the end of third year.

>> Amazing.

>> But what 18 19 20 21 every year you were

just

>> Yeah.

>> making good money.

>> Yeah. Well, basically the craziest thing

is me and my business partner, we said

we'd never be those partners together,

so we had to be. And we were selling

fertilizer door to door for the first

two weeks after our first year at

university. Yeah. And we were like,

"This is really difficult. Better to

start a business." You didn't want to

work for anyone.

>> You know, I interviewed once in my life

and I did not get a job.

>> What What kind of jobs?

>> It was like a sales job. I did not get

it. Um my business partner Antony

interviewed at Niscoco. He didn't get a

job. And my other third partner, Ben,

interviewed seven rounds at Leo Bernett

did not get a job. So you guys, we we're

not employable.

>> You're not you're not keeping very

idiosyncratic human beings, very

eccentrics. I like that. Yeah, that's a

good thing. What

what drove you to create this universe?

I mean, I know it starts with toys,

right?

>> Actually, the first big moment was a

product called the Earth Buddies, which

a small little potato head. You put them

in water, it grows grass here.

>> Kind like kind of like the '90s version

of Chia.

>> '90s version of Chia.

>> Yeah.

>> So, Earth Buddy is your first success,

correct? That's the uh $1.5 million that

you made from that product that you then

take and reinvest into

>> double sticks.

>> Devil sticks were chaos.

>> What made you believe three college kids

could make a billion dollar business?

Did you really even think about Mattel

or any of those companies or you didn't

give a You were just creating.

>> First of all, we didn't we didn't think

like that.

>> What did you think? We were like, let's

go into business for ourselves and let's

see what happens. And then once we got

into the toy industry, we said, we're

going to be open to ideas from wherever

they come from around the world. We're

going to and we're going to grow this

company as big as we possibly can. We

put no restrictions on it. And that was

it. And so what we do is we sift through

thousands of ideas every single year and

then we allocate capital to, you know,

like 10, 15, and 20 of them.

>> You put like what the winners you

believe are going to be.

>> Exactly.

>> You're a curator. A toy curator.

>> Yeah. And so then we'll do the

marketing. We'll do the sales, we'll do

the product development, and we'll bring

it to market. But what I was going to

say to you is that we went one product

at a time, right? So we our big product

in in the '90s was the Airhogs. You know

that airplane, you pumped it up, flew

around, and then we had a string of

failures. Key Charm Cuties, Don't Free

Freddy, Tickle Secrets Baby. They all

flopped three flops in a row. But the

most amazing thing is that from the

failures came the successes. And you

don't get to the successes unless you

have the failures, right? And and so I'm

a huge believer in in you know all the

three of those products I just described

to you which we could not give away. You

know we have to mark them down, close

them out, clean the inventory out and

get on to the next thing led to future

successes. But I just wanted to just

back to your original question. It's

like it doesn't we didn't say we want to

be a billion dollar company, right? We

said we were going to grow the company

as big as we can and we took it step by

step and we constantly met ourselves

where we're at at that moment in time

where the company was in terms of its

size.

>> Okay. But I want to know what was the

biggest or most important no you gave or

received that led to the biggest yes.

>> Great question. The biggest no I I gave

was when I went to Japan in 2001. Okay.

>> Okay. And I went to see Takara and they

showed me Beyblade. I don't know if you

remember Beyblade. I do. Okay.

>> So they showed me Beyblade and they said

do you want to distribute it for North

America? I said let me take it back

home. I went back home. I showed the

guys, the team, and everybody's like,

"Ah, Spinning Top, not so cool." Called

them up, said, "We're going to pass on

it." Okay. 6 months later, I go back to

Japan. I'm like curious. I'm like,

"Guys, what's happening with Beyblade?"

They're like, "Oh, it's going fantastic.

We're producing a TV show." Okay. And

I'm like, "Giest thing in the world."

I'm like I'm like, "Can we uh do you

think we can do it?" They're like, "No,

we just did a deal with Hasbro." I'm

like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "You

didn't tell me about the TV show."

They're like, "It's gone." And that

moment, okay, Beyblade went on to be in

the last 25 years done $3 billion of

sales for Hasbro. It will continue and

do another $3 billion of sales for them

in the next 25 years because once you

have a perennial amazing toy, especially

a toy supported by a TV show, it just

goes and goes and goes and goes as long

as they support it.

>> And that moment for me, it it was like

imprinted in my body that pass. Okay?

And four years later, there was a

23-year-old kid that had an idea of

putting an action figure in a marble.

And he had all these pictures, just

drawings, and he showed it to Ben Durmer

and my partner Ben Barrett in our

company. And we were like, that's a

really innovative idea. And so we

licensed it from him. We developed it,

and the best we could do was like a

marble, and you opened it up and the

actual figure, you peeled them out. And

and I said to myself, this is not going

to this is good, but it's not great,

right?

>> So I went back to Japan. This is 2006.

And I went to Tommy. I said to them,

"Would you partner with us on this

product?" And they said, "No." Then we

went to Bandai and they they passed. And

then I went to Sega Toys and there was

Mr. Coco Bun there. He didn't speak us.

He didn't speak a stitch of English.

Nothing. Okay. And he said, "We'll

partner with you." Said, "Come back in 3

months." I go home, I come back in 3

months. Three months later, he his team

develops this whole pop open

transformation mechanism with a spring

with a magnet inside with cards that you

roll them onto with metal inside. Then

you flip the cards over and you battle

together. And I'm like, "This is

unbelievable." And then I said to him, I

said, "What do you think about doing a

TV show?"

>> And he said, "It's going to cost $12

million. Do you have six?" And then I

said to him, "Okay, now you got give me

three months. I'm going back and asking

the the thing."

>> Yeah. You went back to

>> I went back and we said, "Okay, we're in

for the six." and we created the show

and we ran it for four seasons. Um, it

did a billion dollars in sales over four

years. We took our company from $450

million in sales to a billion.

And if I didn't say no to Beyblade,

which was the wrong no, right? But in a

sense, maybe it was the right no, then

we wouldn't have gotten into producing

our own TV shows and that may never have

led to things like Paw Patrol in our

company. I think a lot of people rush

products out before there's like an

investment from an audience. And I feel

like you did it the opposite way. You

saw, oh, okay, a good toy can sell this,

but a good story could sell forever.

>> Correct.

>> Could sell forever. It be

reinterpolated. It could be reimagined.

It could be licensed. It's like music.

>> The the characters kids take into their

lives and they take them into their

personal lives.

>> They become influenced by them. They

become influenced and they become they

they they're aspirational to the

children and it's their wish fulfillment

and their imaginations get going, you

know. So the toys are much more play

oriented and they're all about the play

pattern, but the characters are much

more, you know, much more heady. Are you

just on a roller coaster that never

ended right now? You're But you're 55.

Hold on a second. You've achieved

something. It's not about the money, but

hasn't this like opened the runway for

you to create anything? Like isn't there

some sense of creative freedom that like

all right now I can create anything

without

>> I actually I actually feel I have more

sense of creative freedom before. I

actually think money is not related to

to creativity. You know my partner Ben

talks about he's like you know you go

you go in creative waves. I think it has

more to do with your own personal state

of mind where you're where you're at. Um

uh where you want to put your time and

energy into uh all that type of stuff.

What do you mean by it? Like

>> I just means it's like in the early days

we took a very simple product and we

brought that product to market.

>> Okay.

>> We were able to manufacture it in

Toronto.

>> We had the capital to bring it to

market. Then we did Devil Sticks. Okay.

It was an open market product. Same

thing. We had a factory. We leveraged

that. We had some relationships at

retail. Then we went on to bigger things

like Airhogs, which was a very complex

engineering type of product, right? Then

we opened up to all these inventors. It

wasn't like we said we're going to go

from Earth Buddies to producing Bakugan,

you know, Bakugan. So, it's like the

company had the resources and we had the

the relationships and and the desire to

bring different things to market at

different times.

>> Do you ever get

>> So that that's that's what I mean by

meeting yourself where you're at,

>> right? Like you you at each moment

you're at a different phase. You focused

on that product during that phase and

then you moved on to what?

>> Correct. Then you grew a body of

knowledge that gave you the ability to

do more if you're curious and you're

passionate.

>> So you IPOed,

>> correct?

>> Has that ever interfered with like how

you do business? I mean, I know the

upsides of IPOing.

What are some of the downsides of

including the public in something that

has always been your ideas and your

creations and your hands on it? I mean,

there's other people involved at that

point. And he's like, "No, no, I think I

think I I I personally think it's a

great benefit for us to be a public

company. There's full transparency as a

result of transparency. We've been able

to get some incredible licenses like

we're the master tour license for

Monster Jam which has been incredible

for our business. Um, a whole bunch of

Gabby's dollhouse with huge partners

with Universal do business with Disney.

People love transparency. before when we

were private company they couldn't see

the balance sheet and they were like you

know they didn't want to give us the

licenses um

>> because of what they didn't real they

didn't think you had the ability to move

consumership or move the needle or

>> no it was it was more about like do you

have the balance sheet to support if it

doesn't go right and pay us the

guarantees and all that type of stuff

and they they they also just want to see

like they want to they want to peek

inside the business of everyone does

yeah and That's like the most common

question I get now is like can you

explain how it works? My multimedia

business is totally independent. We've

been offered the craziest numbers 8 n

figure dates per year license our stuff

and

we're not doing it. I had a huge direct

to consumer model which I wanted to ask

you about. Yeah.

>> So you have this illustrious like three

decade plus run.

>> Did you ever umbrella all your

companies? I know licensing is a big

deal and same for us on the music and

content side, but is

uh did you ever explore the direct

consumer model with like a show such as

Paw Patrol like taking it away from all

the major networks instead of taking

carriage fees or license fees and saying

if you're a fan of Paw Patrol, go to

Patreon and pay $10 a month and you get

unlimited access to our entire catalog.

>> Yeah. You know what? We partnered with

Nickelodeon and Paramount. I knew about

Did that ever cross your mind?

>> Not so much.

>> Oh, D.

>> No. No. Not Not when it came to

television. We looked at D with consumer

products.

>> But again, like

>> we sell most of our stuff through

Walmart, Target, Amazon, and we like

that that type of model

>> because of what though. Because like

this is where you and I are different. I

want to understand the mentality. See, I

>> maybe maybe it's maybe it's because we

started earlier in like the 90 and

2000s, but that's what they do. You know

what we do is we tell stories. to create

innovative products. They create great

games.

>> Oh, you're saying that's what they do.

They sell products very well.

>> Correct.

>> You wanted to give their responsibility

so that you didn't have to take away

from what you're really great at.

>> Right. And also like like direct to

direct to consu direct to consumer the

economics are actually not that great.

It's actually much more efficient to go

through an Amazon or Walmart, Target

>> for products.

>> From products, yes.

>> Not for digital IP. I' I'd argue that

with you.

>> For digital IP, it's a different story.

>> That's what I want. That's what I want

to get into because I saw you did a

Nickelodeon deal for the US distribution

rights, but I was wondering what you did

for the rights to distribute all those

entities through the rest of the world.

>> Usually, we went through the through

Nickelodeon or Paramount and then we

gave them the the rights. But it depends

on it depends on the show. Some shows

we've actually done deals with with

Netflix and only in North America and

then we used uh other broadcasters in

Europe. It depends on the show that

we're actually bringing to market. But

we've never we've never actually done a

a show directly on YouTube, for example.

>> Why not?

>> Just not yet. Maybe in the future.

>> I would I would suggest

employs

of millions of First Can I explain

something?

>> Patreon's a direct consumer. Um,

basically look at it like a

transactional platform. It hosts video.

Yep.

>> Um, it has about 400,000 publishers and

creators on it. You sign up for a

membership, 5, 10, $25, $50, $100 a

month. You dictate and determine what

the audience member gets for giving that

subscription fee every month.

>> Mhm.

>> Um, and there is traditionally about a

9010 split in favor of the publisher.

So, it would be you. It's accessible

around the world. It's an app. It is in

the Apple Store. So you lose that 30% of

the Apple store fee, but you gain all

the data from your consumers address,

name, gender, age, location, um other

interests, things that normal platforms

don't usually provide you with. So in a

world where you've affected hundreds of

millions of people, I just find it odd

that someone in your company didn't say

we have to have YouTube for our

footprint. We have like I always look at

business like a funnel. Mhm.

>> At the top of the funnel, you have like

your curious

uh general bystanders that could be a

fan or may not be a fan, but you get

them in the funnel. You get them, oh, I

got them on Paw Patrol. They saw it with

their kids. You've messed you've helped

me. You've helped my life with my

one-year-old daughter,

>> right?

>> And she watches and it it it makes her

focus and not have a million things

going on. And it's a something great for

me, but

h why haven't you guys like I think

taken advantage of that part of a market

and in a good way. I don't mean it in a

in a monetary way only. I mean like

there's room for growth with your

franchises that you haven't explored at

all yet. And you've went the traditional

route, but in 2026,

I only question it because the

publishers and creators have all the

control. You're the you're the bargain.

Like there's no way they could overlever

you. You have the audience, you have the

product, you have the IP.

>> Yep.

>> Why not go straight to

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for

I didn't even know about Patreon, so

that's a good thing I've learned about

here. Okay.

>> And uh um I'm going to ask the team

about it.

>> You should definitely going to ask the

team.

>> I didn't I didn't rush.

>> You know what I'm talking about. Not the

money. I'm talking about the Oh my god,

you did it again,

>> right? Like I got p like in my in the

small ready.

>> No, but I the rush is the rush. The

rush. I got published in New York Times.

I'm on TV. All right. My my shit's

making right

>> tens of millions of dollars a year. I I

want to race. I want to speed. I want to

feel not literally. I want to feel it. I

want to feel something. But

>> right, but you've been there. I I'm just

learning it. I want to know what do I

do?

I think it's I think first asking the

questions is is the first step of course

>> right and then it figure out modalities

that work for you that brings you

balance in your life like for me it was

yoga meditation

um running but having a morning routine

where I had time for myself where I can

like really center myself and it was for

me right no one else and I only started

doing that like in in my 40s um and then

eventually when I hit 50. I was like,

"Okay, I got to get off the treadmill

for a while because I actually I didn't

do enough self-awareness stuff

beforehand."

>> I I'm scared of that right now,

honestly. Like, I'm I'm watching myself

in real time going, "This is all great.

It's exciting, but then I'm like, am I

not spending enough time with my

daughter? Am I am I not focusing on the

important parts of life that fulfill my

soul?" Right? Like I can tell you I feel

the greatest when I create something for

a moment and then I get all the love and

attention that I didn't get when I was

young and I feel good and then something

goes away when I go to sleep at night

cuz I and you don't have anyone,

>> right?

>> And so I want to know like have you been

in that position and go went like wow I

have everything but what I really want

even though you've done all this cool

stuff. Yeah, for sure. Listen, it only

gives you so much. It only gives you so

much.

>> So, have you had that night? Those

nights?

>> Had the mornings.

>> The morning staring at the ceiling.

>> No, I actually sleep really well. Except

for last night, I didn't sleep so well.

No, I would just say that that one has

to be careful because being a workaholic

is the most

uh recognized, not recognized, but it's

the most um it's the addiction.

>> Yeah.

>> That gets the most accolades. That's the

most accepted.

>> That's what I meant earlier.

>> But it's But it's an addiction like

everything else.

>> Are you an addict? Because I am.

>> I was I was till I was 50.

>> But for work or other things? Cuz I'm an

addict.

>> I was a I was a workaholic.

>> I'm a drug addict. I'm an addict though.

I have

>> I was a work I was a workaholic till 50.

>> Give me an example of your day just just

roughly. I just want to understand what

that means.

>> You wake up in the morning, you go to

the office, you work all day. Okay. You

come home tired and

>> no energy for anyone else. No energy for

anybody else. And then you repeat the

next day and then you go on business

trips and travel around the world and

you got the highs and you got the lows

and the highs and the low items. It's no

private virus, no commercial. You like

commercial? I geez. You ever try to

ground it? You know, it's like

>> I'm not me. I have OCD and like

obsessive com. I'm like

when something great happens, I want to

feel it. I want to feel now. It's not

monetarily. I just want to feel all the

highest of it. like we're at, oh, we

have a closing a $10 million deal. They

want to fly out private, go take the

final meet, get on the plane, smoke

stroke a cigarette on the private jet,

feel myself, but really I go home

lonely, you know, for the most part. Not

I'm just saying in general, like it's a

weird feeling. It's like fulfilling and

empty.

It's a weird duality that I'm figuring

out because I have a daughter and I need

her to look at me and go, "Oh my god, my

dad love like loves me more than he

loves his work." That's my biggest thing

right now. How do you balance it? What?

So what did you do at 50 that stopped

you? They're like, "Oh my god, I got to

stop this."

>> I stepped down from being co of the

company and then I took a sabatical for

a year and a half.

>> Where did you go?

>> I went Oh, I I had a great time. I went

to Africa.

>> My god.

>> Yeah. I spent two months in South Africa

driving around. Then I bought a 110

Defender and I drove from Cape Town all

the way to Nairobi.

>> Well, you're from South Africa, right?

So that was like a home.

>> Yeah. So that was home. But the but it

was always a dream line to go from from

uh from Cape to Cairo. It's a magical

trip,

>> right? And I'll tell you this much the

greatest thing is like people ask me

like how was the trip and stuff like

that and I was like you know what the

greatest thing about the trip was the

fact that I did it.

>> The fact that I did something I'd always

wanted to do.

>> You actually followed through

>> and I actually followed through and I

did it and I did it for myself and it

was like 5 months for me and then I

wrote a book and I

>> Congratulations.

>> It's called No Experience Necessary: Why

Betting on Yourself in Your 20s is the

best decision you'll ever make. go get

and uh I'd wanted to I'd wanted to write

it for 10 years. Okay. And finally I

gave myself the space and time to be

able to do it.

>> Was that that was because you were

stepping down and you're like now I have

the time

>> cuz I had a year and a half sole.

>> Yeah. So I didn't do any work for a year

and a half. The only thing I did was I

showed up to my board meetings and now

with even reflection I would have not

even shown up for the board meetings. I

would have just like

>> was that like your ego was that like

like guilt strong for the board? What

was it?

>> Partially. Yeah, it's a great catch. It

was partially guilt.

>> I I always feel guilty.

>> It was partially guilt and partially

like not wanting to give up 100%

control.

>> Control is a big thing for me. Everyone

in my I have like I only have like for

my specific government I have like 10

people working for me,

>> right? But there I always have like

these chief of operations that want to

come in and they work for like the

biggest and I'm like oh just

>> so can I can I tell you there's one

product we made it's called Hatchimals.

Okay.

>> Okay. Do you remember little character

he pecks out of the egg? Okay. You love

him to life.

>> It was our biggest product.

>> Love them.

>> You love them for life. Yeah. That was

the thing. You love you love them to

life. Okay. And know the craziest thing

is like you he feels the heat on your

hand and he starts to peck and he turns

360°. Okay. Inside the shell. You can

put him down for a year and nothing will

he he won't peck anymore and then you

pick him up, you continue to love him.

Eventually he'll hatch out of the egg.

It's one of the most I personally

believe one of the most exceptionally

brilliant innovative products our

company's ever produced. And it's the

thing that I'm most proud about. And you

know why I'm the most proud about it? Do

you have to take care of it?

>> No. Why?

>> Because I personally had nothing to do

with that product.

I personally from a creative

perspective, from an engineering

perspective, from a sales from every

perspective, I had nothing to do with

it. And that's the that to me is the

highest testament of success when you

can build a company, okay, that can

replicate putting out amazing products

and stories without you involved.

>> I'm figuring that out. I'm behind you.

I'm I want

>> Well, you're Yeah. You're 16 years

behind. So like that's that is when when

you're when you're able to bring your 10

people and bring those people on and

they're able to like really contribute

in meaningful ways and you're able to

let go and then you have a success like

that where stuff gets created as a

result of the culture that you built.

Right.

>> Right. It's your culture. You built it

in the company. You're attract you're

attracted. You retained uh you brought

these people along. I write in my book,

I really think that business should be

referred to more as an art, okay, than

but most people don't look at art.

>> I People always ask me, what do you do?

I'm an artist. I I But it's the art of

business,

>> right? Most people think of business as

like profit loss and it's like

>> mundane number. Yeah. All that type of

stuff. But it's really it's about

bringing human beings together to create

something that never existed before. And

you know, you're like a conductor.

You're a conductor of really talented

people. So, and basically where I'm

where I'm pushing you now is that

eventually when you if you can give up

the control and see the people that you

brought into your business

>> create and do things like you would do

them or sometimes slightly different

>> their way

>> their way but you're getting amazing

reaction from from whoever you're

servicing and bring it out to the world.

What a beautiful thing cuz then you

brought other people along.

>> It means they learn turns it into their

own version of it and it works.

>> Correct. And that's the that's to me is

the highest test. Success. Cool. That's

the highest bar you can get when you're

not involved.

>> Correct.

>> I was going to say what what what was

the one thing in your operation that you

wish you would have nicked in the butt

and said this isn't part of our culture

at all. Period. But you let it float on

too long. That that in hindsight now

you're like damn if if I would have

nipped that in the butt, things would

have been a little different. Could have

been better. Could have been stronger.

we could have been operating more

efficiently.

Do you know I I uh

I think in the in the later years a

little bit too much politics seeped into

the business. And

>> what is politics in your world? Like

give me an example. So I know I know

what politics

>> politics are are are when there's too

many unsaids in a business and there's

too many side conversations and

>> like chefs in the kitchen.

>> Traditional politic people having side

conversations about issues without

having all the people in the room

hearing the same conversation. That's

toxic, right? And I would I would say

that for a good the majority of our

company's uh history,

>> that did not happen because me and my

business partners, we met every week,

>> okay? We surfaced issues. My business

partners were able to say sorry when

there was an issue came up, which is

like the I think it's the secret to all

success is the ability to apologize.

>> Low ego. Um you know, we'd mind melt

together and whenever the best idea came

up, uh we'd run with that idea. No one.

We have a very unique thing in our

business which you'll appreciate in the

creative industry. It's like it's never

one person that brings the success. It's

really the collaboration of many many

people. And we don't have a blame

culture, right? We don't blame anybody

for a a failure. On the negative side,

we don't celebrate the successes as

probably as much as we should have. If I

have to look back, I'd probably say we

should have celebrated more successes,

but we were just like moving so quickly

all the time.

>> That that's what I was talking about

before. Like I sometimes people have to

remind me to like revel in a moment.

They're like stop the are you

chasing? Like you have everything that I

want to have. Do you enjoy anything? And

I'm like sometimes I have to pinch

myself. That's why I'm asking you. But

I'm like you've seen it all.

>> How hard is it to just stop in the

moment and just like oh my god I I did

it.

>> If you ask me it's very difficult and

looking back I I wish I enjoyed the

journey even more than I did.

>> Me too, man. I' I'm starting to now.

Okay. Spin Master is three decades plus.

Um, you've seen all the business to be

done with multimedia, intellectual

property,

toys, goods, merchandising.

Where are you today, three plus decades

into running this business? Being that

you stepped down,

how does your business and workflow in

2026 look like?

>> Oh, it's really different. I mean, I

probably spent 30% of my time in the

business, 30% of my time on my

foundation, and then the rest of my time

on my own personal life,

>> okay,

>> versus 95% on the business, right? Back

in the day. Um, and what I'm focused on

now is on chairman of the board and

trying to be the best chairman for the

company and we have a great new CEO.

It's actually a New Yorker.

>> Yeah.

>> Classic New Yorker.

>> Real New Yorker.

>> A real New Yorker. Okay. Grew up in

Brooklyn, lived in the city. She will

never leave the city. Her name's

Christina Miller. She's fantastic. She

was at Cartoon Network and uh running

sports at Turner.

>> Cool.

>> Um, amazing woman. And uh you know we're

in the process right now of seeing if

the company can actually live beyond the

founders right and the founders are not

going away but can you actually get a

company similar to what we were talking

about before but can a company actually

live and breathe and have this

incredible culture

>> that without us being there all the

time. And this is the hardest this this

I would say is the

hardest thing that I've undertaken and

my business partner that we've

undertaken in the 32 years

>> is this symbolically like passing the

torch.

>> Yeah, it's a little bit but when you

look at companies like you know look at

the iconic companies that have been

around for 100 years like Nintendo or

Sony or IBM all these great companies

like how do they do it right?

>> They're forever companies.

>> The forever how do you become a forever

company? It's It's the hardest thing

ever.

>> It is. Well, it's I I

>> And I love that I love that term.

>> What? It's the hardest.

>> No, the forever company.

>> It's a forever.

>> It's a great term.

>> There's only a few of them.

>> Yeah, there's not many.

>> If you teleported in a hundred years,

Spin Master and all your brands would

still live on.

>> It's a great question. It's a great

question. I don't know.

What brand under Spin Master do you

think will survive

>> forever?

>> It's a great question. I I I'm not I'm

not going to answer the question because

I don't want to I don't want to jinx

anything.

>> Oh, come on.

>> No, no, 100%. But I will You're

superstitious like that.

>> A little bit.

>> A little bit. A little bit. A little

bit. I don't want

>> But do you have in your head?

>> I do have a thought. Yes.

>> You're Are you sure? Don't answer me

what it is. Are you sure about it?

>> I have a thought in my head. Yes.

>> Wow. And I also would say I would also

say that the the company would continue

to replicate and bring beautiful things

out into the world. You feel like you

got the right people to do that. We have

a good core. Awesome. Good core. I love

that. I'm I'm going to learn a lot from

you. I'm uh I'm going to keep reading on

what you

designed and created. You represent so

much of what I wanted this show to be

like people that are built different.

you ran a toy company and multimedia

company independently

um like vigorously without letting the

common obstacles tear you down. You

started in college with no money. I

respect that. I did the same.

Um I relate to you in so many ways with

the obsessive work behavior with the

chasing the the next thing the trying to

figure out what is balanced and what is

unhealthy. I struggle with so many

things you do. I I you know um I can

relate to you and I don't know you but I

can relate to you and and I hope I leave

things behind that are just as special

and forever companies like you've built.

>> Um but I wanted to thank you for coming

on the show.

>> Before you leave I have something for

your special.

>> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Now I said my show I was going to do

something Wow

>> for my guest that Wow. that Nolan Dave

did. So, one of my new companies is uh

called Center Cut Cards. And I do this

for a bunch of big hip-hop artists. I

own like rock band acts instead of just

normal merchandise.

>> That's so beautiful.

>> Do a collector card. So, I made you a

one of two.

>> Wow.

>> And you got you got my favorite picture.

This is me in 2018 with all the sketches

of the Paw Patrol.

>> That's your favorite picture?

>> Yeah. Me over my desk, my round table.

>> So, look uh this is an art piece, right?

So it it says you are on my show built

different. Um it's a first edition. It's

already rated but look at the back. I

want you to actually wow what I did.

Thanks buddy.

Hers so much for coming out.