i've been a therapist for 35 years i

worked with millionaires and movie stars

and i realized they have the same

problem i just didn't feel enough

britain's number one hypnotherapist the

founder of rapid transformation therapy

best-selling author marissa pierce

people who are depressed have a very

interesting belief one is there's no

cure you know it's genetic and even if

there was it wouldn't work for me can

you change that belief very quickly yeah

but you have to take a look at where did

this happen how does one go about

identifying which of these stories are

the root cause well i think the first

thing is

you must also face some pretty

heartbreaking cases tell me about one

that comes to mind when i say that i

think my saddest case was a boy of 14

whose father was hitting him with a belt

nobody needs that

oh just excuse me for one minute nice

[Music]

it's no one's job to make you feel good

it's your job and if you give someone

the job of making you feel good then

guess what you give them the job of

making you feel bad if you can give

yourself the certainty you're looking

for instead of looking for it somewhere

else the shift isn't subtle it's

profound

so without further ado

i'm stephen bartlett and this is the

direva ceo usa edition i hope nobody's

listening but if you are

then please keep this to yourself

[Music]

marissa

first and foremost thank you for being

here as you will know i'm a big fan of

your work i included much of sort of

something really pertinent

that you'd said in my book as well i

think that's how we kind of came became

connected um you spend so long helping

other people and understanding them

i wanted to start today by understanding

you a little bit okay i want to go right

back i know that so i did a little bit

of childhood psychology as well and

that's this is why your work is

particularly resonant with me but take

me back to your childhood i read this

this quote you'd said which i thought

might be a good stage setter which was

when i was growing up i struggled with

the belief that i wasn't enough this

belief followed me through my teens and

right into my twenties

yes certainly did

so who was that child

well you know i had an interesting

childhood later someone in therapy said

my god your childhood sounded absolutely

crazy but it wasn't crazy but it was

interesting i had a very beautiful

mother

who was

deeply deeply unfulfilled beauty meant

gave her nothing she she wasn't a woman

who could stay at home and be a mother i

had a father who was deeply deeply

intellectual he was a head teacher

and he loved his career and it was

interesting watching this stranger my

father loved his career he helped kids

every day he gave my gave himself to my

mother was totally unfulfilled always

ill a little bit hysterical

and

i watched that and i remember thinking

you know what you have to have a great

job you've got to get a job that's

compelling and engrossing because it

protects you from the pain it wasn't if

there's pain it was there's going to be

pain

my parents relationship was a car crash

but if you've got an amazing career

then you'll be okay so i always wanted

something engrossing and fulfilling but

my father was very interested in other

people's children because they were

easier to work with than his own so it

was certainly

an interesting life but i don't regret

any of it because it gave me the

ambition to also think wow you can help

you my father's stories say helping

people is what life is all about because

it was for him

he wasn't very good at helping my poor

mother but that's okay

so

it was i know but there were lots of

elements of my life that were strange so

for instance i felt different i was the

head teacher's daughter and i went to

his school

and i realized later that is the bane of

people's lives to be different because

we're all hardwired from birth to find

connection

and avoid rejection when you feel

different then

that can be really really strange but it

made me understand human psychology very

early on what it's like to be different

what it's like to not fit in what it's

like when

it looks perfect on the outside it's not

really like that on the inside

so it stood me in very good stead i

think my childhood was the perfect

background to be a therapist

and where did you

in hindsight pick up the belief that you

weren't enough

yeah you know i remember being in my

father's school and he actually was my

history he wrote in my history book i

think i was 11 i remember to this day he

said oh this is amazing work i had no

idea you're intelligent and i think he

wrote that to please me but i was not

pleased i'm ever thinking well my father

doesn't even know who i am

and so

the not enoughness came from

living with a father who was invested in

other people's children living with a

mother who was always in hospital

living with a brother who was very

clever went to pride both my sister and

brother went to private school and i

didn't because i wasn't the smart one

and my sister was a cute little

beautiful little baby my brother was the

firstborn smart boy and i just felt like

this thing this kind of freak if you

like in the middle but now i'm glad

about that because

it gave me that that understanding but i

did have one thing i had a grandmother

who really believed in me thought i was

a genius i remember thinking then

that's actually all you need one person

when i became a therapist i'd work with

a lot of

i always from the lost boys like 15 year

old kids who were so angry and they they

say no one believes me i said that's not

true i believe in you

and you can believe in you that's

already two people and i've always

believed that if you have one

person to believe in you your life can

be amazing so i always had my

grandmother she lived 300 miles away but

she really believed in me

and at that age what did you want to do

with your life did you have a hypothesis

or a vision so i wanted to be an artist

i was very good at art my daughter's now

an amazing artist but i wanted to be an

artist and i was like no no you can't be

an artist you can't go to art school

that's just for druggies and drop outs i

still love illustrating and i was always

writing stories which is quite funny now

because i wrote stories my mother kept

them all they were always about

dysfunctional families

and unhappy families and that was so

interesting that i wrote that now of

course

i write i wrote that book's all about

the stories of unhappy people

so i always thought i'd be an artist and

my father said you should be a teacher

like me that would be amazing for you so

i went to teach a training college you

know i'd love to be a teacher

but then i realized that i didn't want

to be a teacher after all so

i left that and went off to work for

jane fonda here in la which was much

more fun

and i loved that i went fully into the

diet weight loss fitness industry

but even then i realized how abusive

that industry is how cruel it is to

people how it tells them that your worth

is entirely judged on the number on the

scales or the number on the tape measure

and i saw working for jane that

you know anorexia and bulimia mental

illnesses body dysmorphic is a mental

illness they were trying to cure it with

aerobics

and living on protein shakes and diet

soups

and so then i came across this wonderful

guy called gil boy and he was a

hypnotist and i trained with him and

thought well this is amazing i've got

all these people i'm teaching aerobics

in the 80s it was a huge thing every day

and my classes wore with anorexics

bulimics body dysmorphics exercise

compulsives orthorexics which are people

who only eat clean organic food and i

thought well i didn't even have to

advertise for clients and i didn't

and so then i had this amazing life

teaching for jane during the day

seeing clients

in the evening but then i got so busy i

had to actually stop working for her

because i just couldn't cope with the um

amount of clients that were coming

through my door because i found

something

that really fixed eating disorders and

that was such an amazing thing and you

meet gil boyne when you girlboyne isn't

it yeah girlborn when you got to

l.a yeah and

you talk about this individual being a

really pivotal yeah he was a

hypnotherapist yeah he was and what was

it about him and what he taught you that

stayed with you you know gil was one of

the people i loved the most he broke all

the rules he swore like a trooper he

banged his fist on the table but he was

deeply deeply religious believe that god

worked through him he was just such a

fascinating character because he was a

street fighter from philadelphia

who worked with sylvester stallone and

hypnotized him to write rocky

and realized he was onto something and

then developed this amazing school

teaching hypnotherapists and he so

believed in it that he would guarantee

that if he trained you and somebody sued

you he would turn up in court and defend

you and pay all the costs which

stands different from phenomenal beliefs

i trained with him

and then i became a hypnotherapist and i

loved it and then over time he did ask

me at once if i wanted to as he got

older and retired run his business by

then i'd found my own method my own

technique i always think that when you

train to be a therapist any kind of

therapist

no matter how amazing your teacher is

and i now teach amazing therapists but

you have another teacher every client

you see will teach you something

profound and amazing so then my own

clients became my teachers and taught me

so much and they'd come back you know

that one thing you did that changed my

life that one thing you said oh my god

that was a game changer so i started to

collate the one thing which is different

of course for every client they never

all said the same thing

and then collating the one thing

that

gave them a stunning turnaround i then

created my own method which i called

rapid

transformational therapy people say but

that's not right the words therapy and

rapid don't go together why well

it has to be long and painful who said

that

if i turned up i did turn up at er once

i broke my arm

and they didn't say well we've got to

build a relationship of trust to heal

you i didn't go to my dentist you know

i've got an infection here they were

well we need the trust you see

and i always thought people in pain

emotional pain is no different to

physical pain

if i've got a headache or a broken arm

i've got irritable bowel or

blushing i can't find love or i stutter

that's really painful

and i thought that therapy should be

like going to the emergency room that we

should offer immediate help

so much of the um

the underlying thesis about you know in

your new book and i guess behind your

rapid transformational therapy is this

idea that there's stories that are

within us that are yeah from our

childhood or whatever and they are

sometimes and often very stubborn

stories so imagine

as you've said the reason why people

think it's hard for it to be rapid or

quick is because those stories are so

deeply ingrained and stubborn and etched

into us

and we make someone else's story our

story my mom always wanted a boy i was

the fourth girl my dad wanted me to go

into the family law firm

but i i wasn't smart and so

i see two things a lot someone else's

story my mum said don't even trust your

own shadow

but that's not your story that's someone

else's story

so the first problem is that we make

somebody else's story my teacher said

i'd never amount to anything it's that's

not your story my teacher said that to

me

but that wasn't my story but the second

thing that's even more painful are

the lies we tell ourselves and

the biggest lies i'm not enough i'm not

lovable

i don't matter and

what happens with small children is they

come into the world they don't actually

have a lot of needs they need to feel

safe

loved significant

they need to feel they matter but when

you're a small child if your parents

cannot meet those needs because they're

alcoholics they're mentally ill

they're doing three jobs they're a

single parent they're stressed or

whatever it is

the child never stops loving them they

immediately stop loving themselves if

only i was better my mum wouldn't be

crying if only i was good my dad

wouldn't shout if only i was something

my dad would see me at the weekends

and once they buy into that oh it's my

fault

that becomes a lifelong sentence but

it's very easy to unpick that by saying

to us look you know

you're looking at this through the

filter of a five-year-old

one of my clients told me that she was

walking with her mother in ireland and

her father's friend come and he said

it's a disgrace that you haven't given

your husband a son he'll never be a man

you know because he doesn't have a son

what a strange thing for him to say but

this little girl heard that and thought

oh i should have been a boy

my i've caused both my parents this

tremendous grief and then she became

very masculine she worked as a fire

officer

in fact she was head of a fire crew

and she wouldn't wear makeup she

wouldn't let her husband put up a shelf

she had very short hair and and that was

okay except she said i feel very

conflicted because i just can't be the

person i want to be

and i feel like i've got to do

everything perfectly and my husband i

have so many arguments that i want to

drive the car i'll pack i'll carry

everything

and just going back to remember that

scene was a real aha moment oh

i heard something at five your husband

will never be a man because he hasn't

got a son that last child should have

been a son

but you see she interpreted it with the

mind of a five-year-old

at 35 take a look again

and maybe understand that you were meant

to be a girl your father was thrilled to

be a girl and even if you wanted a boy

somebody

wanted you to be a girl so we see things

with the filter of a child he's been on

the planet for four years what do they

know

i'm not good enough i'm not lovable

i i was a disappointment so

looking at it again as an adult you get

the chance to say oh i see

i believed something then that felt true

but it wasn't true

can that change in beliefs be rapid

though so say yeah in that case that can

be a really rapid yeah i don't know if

you read the case about ryan the

alcoholic whose

father rejected him because he was gay

and he always felt

so sad he attracted men that were

abusive to him

and when he when i had him have an

imaginary conversation with his dad he

said i feel inadequate

when i had a gay son i just felt more

inadequate it's not you it's me he began

to realize that he wasn't a broken

person at all but he had broken

parenting and i think i said that to him

ryan you're not broken but your

parenting was broken you're not flawed

but you had flawed parenting but there's

a huge difference you are not flawed

but your parents who were young and his

mother got pregnant they weren't suited

you had a flawed upbringing but there's

a huge difference and then he was able

to make his peace with that and stop

drinking completely he's never had a

drink since so

if you think therapy is long it can be

like that if you can look at a scene and

reframing go oh

i thought that but that wasn't even true

then it becomes a game changer and it

can take 21 days for the launch it can

take 21 seconds if you can look at

something oh i see i thought that

but actually that was an incorrect

thought and i can go back and correct an

incorrect thought

if at the

um the crux of our lives and our

behavior exists these like fundamental

self stories we've told ourselves about

ourselves about who we are and about

where we our significance in the world

etc how does one go about even

identifying unless they have a wonderful

therapist how do they go about

identifying which of these stories are

the um

root cause of the symptoms they're

seeing in their lives whether it's

addiction depression anxiety whatever it

might be

well i think the first thing is is you

know just start to observe your thoughts

do you have those what i call limiting

thoughts i'm not enough who's going to

want me i'm not lovable

no one cares about me

and think about the thoughts and then

ask yourself a question where did this

thought come from no baby is okay don't

look at me i'm naked i've got no teeth

i've got milk so i've got these triple

knees here and i'm not enough

so what happened to that belief well

someone chipped away at it a parent

a relative a teacher somebody

and because children are so suggestible

it's very easy to make them think

they're not enough

but can you change that belief very

quickly yeah but you have to take a look

at where did this happen

you know i never said well what's wrong

with you i say what happened to they go

well

i was a perfectly normal weight until i

was 11. and then what happened well i

went to school i got bullied

people started to make really weird

sexual comments about my body and i just

got fatter and fatter and then they

never did that again

so now we see oh so somehow what was

happening

had a role and a function and every

thought you think isn't a thought it's a

blueprint

that your mind body and psyche work to

make real i think if you take a thought

you know for me i was always late as a

kid for everything i missed the bus to

school every day and as an adult i was

always late if i had 10 hours to get

somewhere i'd be i missed planes i

missed appointments

and one day i suddenly realized that

when i was a kid and i missed the bus to

school my father i'd have to walk home

he'd be furious he wouldn't even speak

would he get out the car

and drive me in silence to my school's

three-mile drive i never missed the bus

coming home by the way then i thought oh

of course i did that for attention

but my father is now deeply proud of me

and even if he wasn't

i don't need that attention being like

and it just stopped like that

because i suddenly saw the role of it

the job the function

and many times if you can just ask

yourself if this headache or this

blushing or this asthma or this

feeling had a

job or was trying to help me what would

it do and

it's really amazing the answers that

come up

is that why you say um

when you think about the sort of the

core principle of rtt it says don't just

treat the behavior treat the purpose the

is always treat the purpose you see if

someone what does that mean how do i

make well let's imagine that you you

binge on cakes or you're the kind of

person when something goes wrong you you

eat pizza or a cake or something and

most of us go tell you what's wrong with

that but i say hey what's right with it

you're an alcoholic tell me what's good

about that what do you mean well you

keep going back to it and they go

actually now you mention it

it does give me comfort i can always

depend on drink

it takes away the pain i get comfortably

numb

i can come home and just block out or i

can come home and eat five doughnuts and

then i just go into this kind of soft

horrific place

and so

i don't treat the symptom which is i'm

eating cakes every day or drinking

alcohol or binging on netflix i'm i'm

using drugs i i treat what i call what

lies beneath why are you doing that what

does it give you when did you start that

why do you think it helps you i worked

with someone who was a chronic alcoholic

when i talked to him he said you know i

never saw my dad at 16 took me to the

pub and he got me drunk and he went

you're a man now and he began to take

him to the pub every weekend and i

thought this is great my dad

likes because i'm a man

and they had a very bonding time over

beer and then the dad died and he

continued drinking beer

because he believed that he was bonding

with his father even though he was dead

and so what was right about drinking

beer it has a memory

that's how my dad bonded with me in the

pub with his mates getting drunk

and so when you see oh so the role of

the drinking was to keep a memory going

yeah

but you can remember your dad he doesn't

live in a pint of beer you can think of

all the things you did do together

and you don't need to drink and so it's

it's coming to the realization that

something that we hate if something you

hate keeps coming back i keep dieting i

always gain the weight back i've been to

rehab eight times but i still keep

drinking

you got to stop treating the drinking

and treat the cause of the drinking the

role of the drinking the benefit of the

drinking the purpose of the drinking and

when you do that and get it right you

can change it forever like with ryan

who's never had a drink since he

realized that

he felt worthless because his father

rejected him because he was gay

and it starts with that awareness that

you described yeah and which is i i

think is such a difficult thing for some

people for many reasons i think some

people live in this kind of self-defense

state where they they didn't they

the awareness is too uncomfortable for

them to even contemplate yeah you know

i'm sure you've seen this in your

practice but either people don't want to

come yeah when they're there they don't

want to go to certain places yeah in

terms of they don't want to reveal

certain things they'd rather just ignore

opening that

that box

and live in you know a state of i don't

know

bliss naive bliss ignorance is bliss i

mean this there's a story in there of a

girl called terry who lost two babies

died one at birth one at a few weeks and

her two existed and one had a congenital

heart defect and the first thing she

said was don't take me back

i don't want to revisit that pain and i

said okay i won't i promise i won't so

while my job is to take people back i

call it being a good detective

someone's turned up and said well i i

don't know why i keep sabotaging i have

no idea i guess i'm just messed up

because i sabotage every relationship

every job i get i procrastinate and i

always get fired and i don't know why

so i've shut myself away and i don't

even want to look at that but you can

still go back and find it out because in

fact terry had a very functional all he

knew how to do was keep repairing itself

and she had a massive breakthrough just

in a half an hour conversation because

she understood

that being numb

[Music]

it's like you can't not feel but she was

living in a world of not feeling and it

was exhausting so

i always think what i do

wears three different hats the first hat

is michael being a good detective you're

an investigator you never say what's

wrong you say what happened

why do you feel like that why do you

want to change what would it look like

to change

i often say to people

straight away tell me about your family

i've got three says they're all great

it's just me or they might get oh

they're all messed up and then you know

straight away that something's gone very

wrong with his parenting or

something's just gone wrong with this

child

so when you put your investigator hat on

and you know a detective will lay out

images and look at them and go look at

that scene that's in that scene that

scene and they work out

what happened by looking at information

and a good rtt therapist is the same we

gather information

you have lots of aha moments lots of ear

prick up moments lots of things that

come up

that you think oh yeah i'm going to go

here i'm going to go there and after

you've done the investigating and found

out usually in minutes

why that person is the way they are you

then switch to almost being like a

dentist extracting all that toxic stuff

removing it

and finally become like a coder

it's like someone who's upgrading

someone's software and you code in and

wiring and firing

totally different beliefs but the skill

is doing it all at the same time many

people go to therapy and just talk about

what's wrong with me what's wrong with

me i don't know maybe i can find out and

others go

and maybe just do suggestion therapy but

let's give you a different belief but in

fact you have to do all three

seamlessly together because that's the

perfect recipe for change

i understand

i can let that understanding go and at

the same time i'm going to put in

something completely different

you know the with all these um a lot of

the sort of

mental health disorders you know

depression anxiety etc there's been a

lot said about the the recent and the

just apparent increase

in the amount of people reporting to

have these illnesses um do you believe

that there has been an increase and if

so what do you think has been the cause

i yeah i would say there's definitely an

increase in depression you know i've

found in my experience it's only my

experience that the major cause of

depression are a couple of things one

are harsh hurtful critical words that we

say to ourselves on a regular basis that

is guaranteed to make you depressed the

second is

being disconnected and we have an

epidemic of disconnection because

everyone is on their phone and their

screen

we worked from home in kobe some of us

are still doing that

we go to the store and we do a

self-checkout we go to the bank and we

check out with a machine so we are

becoming

disconnected and human beings are wired

for connection not disconnection

and the other thing i find as a massive

cause of depression is failing to follow

your heart's desire doing something

because well the family expect it the

pay is good

it's a solid job so those three things i

think are the massive cause of

depression

on that on that first point about people

telling themselves negative stories um

we'll all know people that are very

self-disparaging

is that and it's interesting because i

don't i mean they don't know where that

originates from but i know so many

people that are incredibly self

disparate yeah the first thing they'll

say to you is oh i'm sorry i look bad

today i know

i messed that up i'm just a mess

i always fail

i'm so sorry you know they look in the

mirror and they go oh my god look at me

or they go i'm going to do this but it

won't work

where it comes from funnily enough is is

our tribal need you know we're still

inside tribal people

and we need to connect with a group and

so bragging i'm better than you i'm

smarter than you i've got more than you

is disconnecting

and so people learn to connect by not

having that tall poppy center we have to

be the same you know children at school

bond by being the same

and i found many clients you know my

parents were rich or dirt poor i was the

only kid with glasses and i felt

different like being the head teacher's

daughter so it comes from there

so it's a strange thing that a few 100

years ago a few hundred years ago and

beyond

being negative

actually saved your life looking for

danger looking for snakes looking for

lions looking for weird people you might

do it because they believe it protects

them from hurt and pain if they reject

themselves first yes they reject

themselves first no one's ever going to

like me see i knew it

and now it doesn't hurt but it really

hurts

and so our job is to show people that no

happiness is there you might as well

expect the best you know muhammad ali

said i told myself i was the greatest

before i even was

and then something amazing and i became

the greatest he could have said i'm not

much good me i'm useless really it's all

a fluke but he said i am the greatest

long before he was

and that was so good for him because

people think of him as undefeated which

isn't true but that's the idea of him

because he

told himself a better lie

and if we could only all do that our

lives would be so much better mostly

because the mind doesn't know

or care if what you're telling it is

true or false or good or bad it just

lets it all in

it's like as you say you said uh you

know thoughts are actually blueprints

and i was thinking about about them as

like

they are

code going into a sat nav

yeah exactly if i tell myself i'm

beautiful and i'm going to be successful

and i'm going to get married then my

mind and my being will take me in that

direction maybe even subconsciously

my actions will further me in that

direction i will say yes to things that

are conducive with that

outcome um

and it really goes to show it doesn't it

the power of um yeah as you say

the limiting beliefs we tell ourselves

because we all say them i i've gone

through my life telling myself that i'm

really unorganized i know because yeah

because i grew up in a really

unorganized home where my parents were

over there so everything was just a mess

yeah and i'm not wanted or i don't

matter you know i was working with a kid

a couple of years ago who was in the

chelsea junior team chelsea football

club

and every day they're coaches you've got

a 2

chance of getting into the main team

playing just two percent you've got to

shape up

but you see most kids when they hear

that i think oh i got a 98 chance of

failing here two percent it's tiny i

said listen you just got to say

i'm in the two percent

someone else told me that their doctor

said you have a 20 chance of surviving

cancers that's great i'll go in i'm in

the 20

i'm in that 20 you might think that's

foolish but

when you set your mind to something

and look at being in the percentage that

makes it actually your mind and body

start to work at a level that make you

stay in that percentage

if you do the opposite well i'm in the

percentage of failures the same thing

happens your mind and body work to make

you stay in that percentage because

the strongest force in humans is that we

act in a way that totally matches how we

define ourselves when you say i'm a

loser i'm a hot mess i'm a train wreck

everything i touch doesn't work

if only we knew how we are making those

thoughts real

and how our mind's job is to actually

start making our thoughts real

we'd probably stop them

but but it's not i guess it's not so

easy just to make someone

an optimist yeah that's true if we think

about the pessimists in our lives and

i've i mean i've got friends that are

pessimistic about

they it just seems to be their default

and no matter i mean none of us in our

friendship group are therapists but the

efforts we've gone to to try and make

this individual

not pessimistic in every situation

have never ever worked thinking about

friend back home who

always and used to work for me who

always defaults to just pessimism and

everything's going wrong and whatever

and i you know

yeah but then you have to ask them what

if you say to them the same thing i say

to alcoholics what's good about it

they'd say i'm never disappointed what's

good about your pessimism yeah what's

good about it if i said to my mother

what's good about being a hypochondriac

she'd say well i get lots of attention

i love being in hospital everyone's so

worried about me people come to visit me

so you have to ask what's good about

being a pessimistic and he'll say

i don't let people down

people don't expect anything of me

and so it's that expectation yeah and

it's a little bit more than the thought

because if you imagine a snack i have to

use my fingers to explain it that's the

thought

and thought always comes first

and then you think a thought when you

think a thought you then feel a feeling

and then the feeling dictates how you

act so imagine you thought of thought

which is i'm not enough

the biggest cause of um issues in the

western world is this not enoughness if

i thought i'm not enough

and i went straight to the next ladder

the next stage how would i feel if i

thought not enough i'd feel sad

dejected demoralized maybe angry

maybe resentful maybe bitter so i've

thought of thought i got some feelings

that come with thinking the thought but

then what actions come from thinking

that thought and feeling these feelings

often no actions i don't take risks i

don't ask people out ask for promotion

i'm actually angry and defensive so now

i've got actions and behaviors

i'm angry i'm defensive i'm

reclusive i'm a loser

i don't bother and then we justify it by

going back because i'm not enough but if

you switch that to i am enough and just

took out they're not go okay if i

thought of jam enough if i said it even

if i didn't believe it but said it said

it said it

what would i feel well i might feel

optimistic i might feel confident i

might feel reassured i might feel

hopeful i might feel excited

and then what thought actions would i

have well i would take some risks i'd

i'd ask people out i'd ask for that

promotion i'd follow my dreams i behaved

differently and i justify again it's

like a loop

thought feeling action behavior thought

so although it sounds very pollyanna oh

you're just thinking great thoughts it's

much more than that because when you

think a thought

you feel a feeling and then you act on

that thought and feeling and you behave

in a way that's linked to that thought

and feeling and a lot of things so let's

change the behavior stop drinking stop

smoking stop sabotaging stop

procrastinating stop acting out

but the behavior is the last thing to

change you have to go back and change

the thought first

and then it's easy does the thought or

that or like the underlying belief come

from some kind of subjective evidence or

experience we've had in our life i

always think about all my beliefs and i

always think that they are all based on

some whether right or wrong whether true

or false evidence

so

you know i struggled with relationships

i've talked about that on this podcast

but i struggled with relationships and

that meant that i was avoidant even if i

was attracted to someone even if i

pursued someone the minute they asked to

commit to me i would dissuade them and

tell them all the reasons why we should

not be together um and i and i look back

and and my childhood and really the

evidence that was at the center of my

belief was watching my parents screaming

at each other every day really awfully

yeah this belief that my dad was in

prison that i always had and i was

trying to bail him out of prison from my

mum screaming at him yeah so the way

that i viewed it was once i became aware

of this faulty evidence i had in my life

from my childhood honestly from writing

and doing this podcast it finally dawned

on me where i'd learned what love and

was and how identical the feeling i felt

about being imprisoned was

similar to the seven of six-year-old

steve looking at his dad being screamed

down

so for me

what i thought happened was i became

aware and then the awareness of it

allowed me to not

the trigger which would be someone

asking me to be in a relationship with

them no longer held enough power over me

which allowed me to get into a

relationship to rewrite new year's

because really you stop thinking the

thought that a relationship is a prison

that's what it really goes back to you

began to understand that you weren't

born with that thought you acquired it

and anything you require you can release

so you worked out oh i've been seeing

this with the filter of a six-year-old a

six-year-old filter says

a relationship is like prison especially

for a man but then you realized you

weren't six

and there's lots of other evidence that

says that's not true

and you changed your thought you see

when you question the belief you don't

believe it that's why in religion you

may not question the priest or the abbot

or the immense not allowed to do that

because we understand

when you question a belief you begin to

doubt it that's why people are deeply

religious never question it i know god

exists how do you know i just know when

you question a belief like when you see

your children my little girl saying

mommy but how does father christmas get

down how does the reindeer get down the

chimney they're that big and the

chimney's that big and how can you get

all around the world in one night and no

they're beginning to doubt which is a

great thing so if you question a belief

you introduce doubt

and that's what a great therapist does

it says really

oh are you always a failure

were you really meant to be an

accountant to please your dad is that

why you're here on the planet do you

really think that everything you touch

fails do you really believe there's no

one in the world that can love you do

you so when you start getting people to

question beliefs you open up a little

glimmer of oh

right

yeah that doesn't have to be true and it

doesn't have to be true for me and

that's why it's important

which you did so eloquently you looked

at the belief of a six-year-old and

thought

but that's not me one of the things i i

talk about in the book a lot is having

clients say that's not me because

and they have to justify why that isn't

them

oh that kid that wore second-hand

clothes and

mum was never there that isn't me i've

got a wardrobe full of clothes i don't

have to do that anymore but you know we

we play the only part we've ever known

and then we make that part our own and

we don't even know that there's many

other parts we could take on

if we wanted to

even those beliefs that that that

imprisonment belief that i had in

relationships with prison

i i felt it the power of that belief

didn't deteriorate over time good but i

still believe that it's there somewhere

and i that kind of makes me wonder if

those very sort of deeply held childhood

beliefs ever really completely vanish or

if they are still capable of being

triggered so for example if if i was in

a relationship now

and my girlfriend started say shouting

at me in the same way my dad shouted at

my mum

i could very well see myself just

getting up and leaving

not shouting back just getting up and

leaving trying to like flee

flee the jail

and i i just wonder with these you know

even with your the clients that you have

and the patients you see whether they

really ever fully overcome

i think a lot of them do i think it's a

work in progress it's about

you look to that little boy who said

relationships are prison and you realize

that was a statement that for you as a

statement of truth it wasn't a question

it was a statement and then what you

have to do is start making a different

statement the mind learns by repetition

relationships are wonderful people say

to me marriage is such hard work i'm

like i don't think so i found it hard

being single i got the flu i got to get

out of bed go to the pharmacist myself

make myself some soup in a marriage in a

relationship someone else said hey i'll

get that i'll do that let me do that so

you question the belief that you have it

then you have to also change it and you

have to keep repeating

the changes you know i worked with

somebody once who said

i have no coping skills my mother was

hypersensitive to lighter noise i

couldn't open a packet of potato chips

without her going mental

we never went to the cinema or the

swimming pool or the beach she didn't

like light she didn't like noise she

didn't like people

and then she said and i have no coping

skills and i made her say i want you to

say i have phenomenal coping skills and

so she had to say that every day she

didn't believe it but she said you know

it's amazing

i say that every day and i've become

this person who feels she can cope with

anything

so you have to look at your question

your statement

and just change it i don't matter i

matter i'm insignificant i'm signing i'm

not lovable i am lovable i'm not enough

i've always been enough and if every

person in the world could wake up and

just say

i matter i'm significant i'm enough and

i'm lovable

that would change my i know that to be

true because i've got many anti-bullying

programs in schools all of them they all

say the same thing

all the kids say they're dumb enough

they've made a little plaque for their

desk and bullying has almost disappeared

in this school

just from those simple statements

because

bullies don't feel enough it isn't

enough to work with a bully child you

must work with a kid who's doing the

bullying what's going on with them

nobody says oh my life is so great so

wonderful who can i bully today i'm

having a great time i think i'll go off

and troll somebody

so we know that

they're not enough this is the core of

so many of our beliefs but

since the mind doesn't know or care what

you're saying

if you switch i'm not enough to i am

enough

the shift isn't subtle it's profound

just the subtlety of words you seem to

um

assert that it makes a tremendous

difference just one word that we use

just one word because we go through our

lives saying things so we go through

life i'll say like you know i'm not

organized or i'll say i can't do that um

you know and a lot of the time the truth

is i probably could but

if we're in this culture of just the

flippancy of words where we say i can't

that's not me

i'm not that person i am this these kind

of like binary definitive statements

are they dangerous

yeah when you say somehow they go not

bad i'm all right

how was your weekend not bad so they

they're really minimizing anything

that's good and i think you have to turn

it right up but

often the one word many years ago one of

my clients said i wish you'd see my

mother she has a hell of a life with my

dad he hits her he's aggressive but

she's very invested in

you know the front of a marita in came

this sweet little old lady

and she kept talking about her husband

saying he's a good husband said but he's

not a good husband darling he's a good

provider i want you to switch the word

husband to provider

because he hits you he's abusive he

diminishes you that's not a good husband

but he is a good provider i know that's

important you've got a nice home

three kids you went all left so she

began to say he's a good provider she

said you know it's amazing i went home

within three months i divorced him

because i thought oh well i don't need

to be with a provider i've already got

this house i've got my pension so for

her that one word

he's only been a good provider in my

entire marriage and he's actually hurt

me a lot and do i need him to provide

i've got a pension i've got a house i've

got friends i got my children he can't

provide anything i can't provide myself

she's not a good husband at all and so

for her just taking off the blinkers and

having someone tell her the truth

that's not love isn't that crazy love

doesn't hurt like that people say oh

my boyfriend loves me so much he hits me

that's not love

you may believe it's love it's passion

it's not love my dad

hits me because i don't behave that's

not love and often you have to educate

people in a very nice way

and change one word i'm useless no

you're smart

i don't matter you matter a great deal

and going back again to all these

teenage kids who say no one loves me i

don't matter i go look if your life was

a clock

you're talking about the first five

minutes of the clock the first five

minutes is horrible but you've got the

whole rest of the clock to have an

amazing life you know you this is your

life today but it's not your life your

life today is you're being bullied at

school your parents don't seem to care

and no one's there and that's horrible

for you but and that is your life but

it's not your life

your life's going to be amazing and then

you have to help them stand up to

bullies and believe they matter and not

tolerate it but it all starts again

you know there's a great song called it

started with a kiss but nothing starts

it starts with a thought about a kiss

everything goes back to a thought and if

you can keep peeling back to the thought

like your thought marriage is prison

then you think but i have the power to

change that thought at any stage no

matter how long down the line is

if you change the thought

you change everything because the law of

control begins with thoughts you can't

control the weather or the traffic you

can't even control your body you'd never

get a cold but you can always control

your thoughts and when you control your

thoughts

it changes your whole life and i know it

sounds easy or simple but that's because

it is simple

you know i've been doing this

five day challenge in schools and it's

called the i can't to i can

and it's just five days where every day

these children go from i can't do i can

they have an imaginary cheerleader that

does somersaults and bangs symbols and

cheers them on and they've all said

it's made such a difference because they

realize they can

that when you say i can't what if nobody

likes you what if i fail what if i get

it wrong well you might but you also

might get it right and if you get it

wrong

you've learned something you know you

you can if you never make a mistake

you've never made anything because the

only way you can learn is often by

getting it wrong you think oh i tried

that i didn't like it i never want to do

that again

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being a therapist and speaking to

a wide variety of people you must also

face some pretty heartbreaking

outcomes and cases tell me about one

that comes to mind when i say that i

think my saddest case was a

boy of 14 his father was very physical

with him but he lived with a mother

and

he didn't have any skills to handle that

so he became very violent at school and

was being expelled

and when i saw him i said darling your

dad's not allowed to put his hands on

you you know that he said but i can't

answer but you can stop him you have to

so he practiced rehearsing a lot that he

would say to his dad you may not put

your hands on me

and then i said i think you have to not

see him for a little while and then the

mother said but he needs a dad i said

well not like that that's hitting him

with a belt nobody needs that and he

does need a dad but he needs a dad that

respects him so we had to all have this

little family conversation that they

were going to go home and ring him and

so i can't see you until you get help

and the father was so childish he

smashed up his xbox and dumped it in the

garden

but he didn't see me stood his ground

and then the father wanted to see him

and i said you know every time you must

say to me can i put your hands in if you

do

i can't stop you when i leave i will

call the police because

i gotta get you some help you you can't

be like this and actually was amazing i

did feel sorry for that kid because the

father was so dismissive but eventually

the father realized that the only way he

could see him

was to stop being violent because

i had to give this little boy the power

you're only 14 but you're smarter than

your dad you're more educated than your

dad you're more grown up and your dad is

a child

and you have to be the man here and say

i won't let you hit me because it's

damaging for you as well as me

and often with kids it's giving them a

voice giving them the power to say no

when someone is abusing them molesting

them taking their lunch money

you know and that's often the case so

many kids just don't have the power to

say no

because when they said they said don't

you say no to me when people say to me

my kid's so annoying i said that's how

they learn i mean my kid argued with me

all the time

and i always think i'm secretly rather

pleased that she could stand up for

herself and defend herself and wasn't a

yes person

and we forget when we won't let our kids

have a say

they go into the world and they don't

know how to have a say and that's a

terrible injustice for them

i was reading in your book about

children and just more broadly about the

the um

some of the mistakes parents make when

they're raising children and one of them

as you kind of cited earlier was about

um telling them not to feel

things right so if you fall over

don't cry don't cry be a big boy stop

being a baby that's definitely what i

had planned to do with my kids yeah tell

me why i'm wrong

yeah you know i i said to my girl but

don't don't be a base because mummy i am

a baby and i thought my god she's so

smart she is a baby because she was my

teacher and then i remembered to say to

when she hurt her leg oh

that really hurt didn't it ouch that

hurt she goes yes mommy it hurt but then

she'd be okay but when you said don't

cry you're a big girl now that didn't

hurt stop making a fuss what you're

saying is don't feel your feelings

swallow them push them down pretend

you're okay put on a happy face and if

you'll walk through the world and say

well i can't tell anyone what i'm

feeling because we've trained them in

the same way we train kids to finish

everything on their plate

one of the best gifts you can give your

children is letting them feel you know

that hurt

you're a great kid but today you're

being really mean she says what's going

on and then let's say you said she was

my favorite

years ago i took my little daughter we

were lambing and she pushed my nipple

and pushed him off a haystack and my

brother was very crossed i said why did

you do that she said you said he was

your favorite i said no

said he was my favorite nephew you're my

favorite you'll always be my favorite

he's my favorite nephew and you cannot

do that and you have to go and apologize

and she did

but i was really quite pleased that i

was able to say what just happened then

you can't always do that sometimes you

have to intervene but

good kids do bad things smart kids do

stupid things and rather than saying

you're so annoying or naughty or bad you

say what's going on

what made why did you just do that and

they'll tell you something that you

would never

expect and then

then they feel safe sharing what's going

on and it

you you children need you to be their

safe place they need to come to you and

say hey my friend's taking drugs my

little homage to his mum my friend's

brother we went out

and he's much bigger and he was stealing

all these baseball hats and he made me

wear i didn't want to wear one i said oh

that's your feelings telling you it's

wrong you must always listen to those

feelings and when that happens again you

must say

my i don't feel i can wear that baseball

hat

and so

i was very pleased that she come in and

tell me stuff about drugs and sex and

shoplifting and some of this literally

your eyes literally pop out on stalks

but you have to not judge your kids it's

it's very

easy to say not so easy to do but you

just have to

take a deep breath even if you know the

time and ask them

what's going on

there's something that i i sort of

garnered from all of that which i'm i

think is really applicable to business

and generally like leadership and

i guess friendship as well which was

typically we we come with answers and we

come with statements

whereas the approach you seem to take

even with your your daughter there is

much more question-centric it's asking

questions and being kind of

removed from having a bias or

presumption so and i was thinking about

that from a leadership perspective if

you when there's an issue in your

business with with an employee or

something instead of

coming with statements and presumptions

it's probably wiser to come with a

question at first

yeah what's going on i was like said

that to my pa there they didn't i just

am overwhelmed by something in my

personal life so when you can say

something you know what's going on or

yeah it's it's easier you know

i was meeting my daughter in london

recently i hadn't seen her for ages i

was so excited she turned up at this

restaurant she was in a really bad mood

and i said do you wanna and i don't like

that do you want to go no i hate that

and and i i'm i felt like saying you

know what i'm just gonna go home i don't

know why i've come here but i just said

well

anything you know i don't like anything

here and then i said well let's order a

coffee so she and then she says mommy

i'm so glad that you understand me

because it's not you i've had a big

fight with someone and i'm in such a bad

temper

and i was just being really defensive

and i felt great too because i learned

to not think

how dare she talk to me like that i

might as well go home i thought oh

something's going on with her why don't

i just sit here

drink my own coffee and just wait for

her to work it out so if you can sit

with someone and not judge them

and say

i mean everything officers didn't want

it but i just left that

then usually they'll tell you what's

wrong but you can't interrogate people

and sometimes you just have to give them

a little while to come around but

i think when you stop judging people

which isn't always easy

[Music]

amazing when you have a workforce that

mess up or

a super defensive you you know try that

so this is going to try a little

tenderness because you get much better

results you know my husband and i have

this great thing where i say

oh what's the story you're telling

yourself one day we were driving in the

car

and i think i was driving and he was on

his phone i was talking he wasn't

listening i talked again and i went oh

i'm telling myself a story here that

you're not interested in anything i have

to say and he went oh that's really

funny because i'm telling myself a story

that you're annoying me because i've

just got a message from our accountant

saying our our account's been hacked and

i'm feeling really panicking and i'm

looking at this message and you're yeah

yeah so we both i'm telling myself a

story that you're not allowing me space

to read this very important message now

my story is

you're not listening but i told that on

a podcast and this girl wrote and she

said well he was wrong he was definitely

having an affair because

banks don't write to say being hacked in

fact

it was our accountant that sent him a

text saying you've been hacked

but that was so funny because there was

a third story in there someone else's

story which was oh he's definitely

cheating on you because

and so i thought that was so funny that

didn't upset me because we all tell

ourselves the story you don't love me

anymore you forgot my birthday you don't

give me the attention you used to

you're not interested in me

the significant shift there as well is

responsibility yeah you're even in the

car example like i s it sounds like a

conversation i had with my girlfriend

recently where i was trying to do

something and she tries telling me

something i'm

going through a crisis on my phone

and i'm telling myself that she doesn't

understand my world and she's whatever

and she's telling herself that i'm i

never listen to her and she's saying

important things

thankfully because i i'm in a slightly

more mature phase of my life we're able

to have the conversation yeah as you've

described where i'd say this is how i

felt and i was telling myself this yeah

you know

but a lot of people don't do that blame

is much feels much easier and it takes a

certain type of maturity in person to

even be able to take responsibility

in the first place i tend to believe

that people who are

who have i don't know if this is

accurate it's just a belief i have but

um that have like lower self-esteem are

less capable of allowing themselves to

look in the mirror and take

responsibility for things yeah they are

the most like protective of yeah they're

much

more adept at blaming refusing to budge

because they believe that

if you're right they're wrong

it is easy to be defensive and blaming

and never admit you're wrong because we

think being wrong means that we're weak

you know it's why men will never say i'm

lost because if you're a hunter you are

useless to the tribe if you say i'm lost

i don't even know how to find my way

back

and so it's the

it's the fear of being wrong and but how

to get around and say listen here's the

truth you're flawed i'm flawed the best

we can ever be in the world

is two flawed people having a flawed

relationship i call it being floorsome

so if you can decide hey i like being

flawed you know i tell all my clients

the unhappiest people i've ever worked

with without a shadow of a doubt

are the ones who try to be perfect and

they're always the loneliest too

because they can never say they're wrong

it's always your fault you did it you

made them

but if you can't be wrong you're going

to be alone because the basis of all

friendship is as we choose people

who share our vulnerabilities if you

haven't got any then you also won't have

any friends

so it is a defensive mechanism to never

admit you're wrong it can very hard to

say no i was wrong

better to say i made a mistake i messed

up i didn't handle that very well i saw

my husband's daughter once say you know

i messed up death i was so proud of it

so i messed up that i didn't handle

myself well at all

really sorry but that p you go up in

someone's estimation when you can do

that we all know when bill clinton

apologized people liked him more yeah

they didn't they'd like him lesbians i

didn't do anything wrong yeah

so the fear of being wrong

creates a lot of problems especially in

teenagers until we can say look

even in the bible it says to er is human

to forgive is divine i always think to

her as human but it feels divine

so we have to not punishable for making

mistakes especially our own kids or

partners say look yeah you did mess up

but

it's okay i'm glad you recognized that

and

i felt like this when

it all comes back again to can you

communicate

and you have healthy self-esteem because

people with healthy steam will say i was

wrong i made a mistake that was my error

people

with low self-esteem said no it was your

fault

it was all your fault

so true and i think that point about

how you go up in people's self-esteem

when you take responsibility is so

unbelievably true because that's what it

means responsibility means an ability to

respond that's what it is it's an

ability to respond and we want to have

an ability to respond better it's

incredibly trust building as well isn't

it when when you know that someone is

able to say

like i'm responsible for that or i made

a mistake here yeah it kind of

allows you to understand that they are

self-analytical and

that they can

um

they can be left to

yeah assess themselves and also some

people just want to be heard when they

go to their mother and say you know you

really hurt me they go well what about

my life you know you had them and it

then they don't feel heard so when your

kid or your husband or your wife comes

in or your friend and says you really

hurt me when you forgot my birth they

all

forgot about how important that was or

cancel the last minute you have to say

oh yeah

i hear that i'm really sorry i heard

even if you think they're being

ridiculous you still have to i hear that

that hurt you

and i'm sorry that hurt you

because

being heard is so important to us when

we feel heard

we feel valuable and we feel significant

you know again our needs are to feel

significant and worthy and enough

so if you can hear someone you make them

feel significant and worthy enough and

if you don't hear them go oh you're just

being over dramatic you're overreacting

not that again why don't you just get

over yourself then you don't feel

significant you don't feel worthy and

you don't feel heard so

we want to have higher self-esteem and

if you can tell people oh yeah i can

hear how i upset you i really feel bad

about that you're growing

there's significance

and then when you can feel heard

you feel more significant too so it's

such a gift to give someone just hearing

them and even if it doesn't make sense

to you still saying yeah i i get it you

feel like that i'm really sorry

in your book when you're going through

the case study of joe i believe it was

you talking a lot about food and diet

yeah

we all have the belief and even i do and

i work out every day pretty much every

day about six days a week and even i

know who i want to be in terms of my

diet i know that i want to lose fat i

know that i want to not eat the pringles

i'm very clear on this i think about it

a lot but i still eat the pringles and i

still have the chocolate and i still

don't seem to be able to

live in accordance with what i know or

at least what i say

um i want to do and also as you've

articulately said we all know

what good food and bad food is

but we still continue to make the wrong

choices

but from an evolutionary point of view

sugar is a good food you know if you

were living thousands of years ago and

you're out on the prairie

if you found honey or fruit it was

probably going to be very safe and had a

lot of fructose and it would keep going

if you found some lettuce that wouldn't

be the same and bitter stuff was wanted

to poison you so we're actually a hard

wired to prefer sugar because it gives

us a lot of nutri a lot of calories

a lot of energy

for something small whereas

something else wouldn't do that

and our primitive brain still believes

it will run out of sugar which is why no

one says i've got that lettuce in the

fridge calling whenever that ben and

jerry's that cake those cookies i keep

going back for more and so it's very

hard to fight your primitive wiring you

are hard watch remember where sugar is

and finish it you're hardwired to eat

food when you see it because

if the hunters came home with some

fish and you said i don't really fancy

fish two days later you would be kicking

yourself because you should have eaten

it when it was in front of you we're

wired to be scared of hunger if you're

scared of hunger you can't be rational

also wired to go for fat you know so

pringles and potato chips are the new

cigarettes because we love the fat we

love the crunch because we have stress

receptors here that love biting and

crunching

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and so everything we think was wrong

about food is actually from our minds

but no it's right you should eat when

you seafood you should load up on

calorific food because we lived in a

feast and famine for years but if you

can understand it you can change it and

the whole diet industry is based on

absolute abuse and self-hatred you know

we talk about punishing those pounds

doing a punishing workout living on a

shake diet or

powdered soup diet that just tastes

disgusting

we go to

um groups where we get weighed and

shamed in front of people we talk about

food as sins and we've had a naughty day

or i've been good i've been so good i

haven't now been really bad i ate a

cookie and

that that is why to make you feel like a

massive massive failure even you saying

i shouldn't eat the pringles i shouldn't

eat the chocolate you know the way

you eat is only down to the pictures you

make in your head

if the picture's right you eat is why

vegans can't eat meat because the

picture is wrong jewish people can't eat

pork because the picture is wrong so if

you want to succeed you've got to

maybe set fire to some pringles or

do something make some glue with jelly

sweets and then when you make the

picture different you'll never want to

eat it again but you can't

succeed at that by beating yourself up

that's so very true the thing that

stopped me drinking coke was watching a

clip that someone had shared and it they

just boiled coke

they showed the residue that was left

behind and it looked like oil yeah and

this picture i have in my head now is

that if i drink coke i'm putting this

gloopy black oil in yeah and i'm scared

of that the way you feel about

everything everything is down to

only two things the pictures you make in

your head

and the words you say to yourself and i

think i've now trained thirteen thousand

therapists in rtt all over the world and

they all say you know that that's such a

condensing therapy into a moment

the way you feel is down to the pictures

you make and the words you control which

you are free to change i can't get on a

plane it's killing it's dangerous well

actually the most dangerous part is the

cab ride to the airport

it's a state of mind

they feel free

and so if you can just look at every

time you think of something or feel

something think what are the pictures

and words what am i saying

and if you can change them it changes

everything and of course they are your

words and pictures

i'm going on a date i might be rejected

but i could be with someone amazing who

just thinks i'm the most amazing thing

i'm going this i could fail but i could

also get this amazing job of my dreams

we've all been told that human beings

are very complicated and that the mind

is very complex that it isn't it's very

simple you only have to know three

things about your mind one is

the way you feel about anything is down

to the pictures you make in your head

and the words you say the second is that

your mind is hardwired to keep returning

to what's familiar

while running away from what's

unfamiliar which and that's true but you

can make anything you can put a bit of

silicone on your finger and shove it in

your eye every day and it becomes so

familiar but at first using lenses is

very unfamiliar

but most important thing about the mind

is that it does what it thinks you want

and you've got to sit down and think you

know but what do i want i wanted

tensions i've got a nervous twitch i

want attention i'm getting all these

illnesses oh i see i should have sent

said i want

positive attention for being really

smart or

really kind or really evolved so

really you don't need to study in human

being you need to know those three

things and if you know them and apply

them you can make sense of your life and

everyone else lives but also you can

make your life so much better by

thinking i can change the pictures

i can take sugar out of my coffee and

make it familiar very quickly and if i

tell my mind like a spice girl what i

really really really want but i'm very

clear

like you know i want more money well

what's that 10 bucks i want

passionate relationship for how long a

week so if you just keep always going

back to those three things and and

looking at them you can have whatever

you want

once you can look at those three things

and make them work for you

and not against you when i talked about

the pringles there you talked about the

kind of

this initial stage being that acceptance

of understanding that this is my hard

wiring

um and this is you know i'm not

i'm not a bad human in fact i am a human

you're doing what nature wants you to do

actually yeah and that acceptance is um

you talk about it when you talk about

terry in your book when you're talking

about dealing with hard feelings this

triple a